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thepersonperson · 4 months ago

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I can't believe it's genuinely canon that Geto was jealous of Sukuna being the one to fill up Gojo.

I know Gojo reassured him but we saw he thought of Toji as the last person who satisfied him. No wonder Geto ended up on a crusade against no cursed energy monkeys.

Geto's insecurity with his place in Gojo's life really was his downfall. (On top of not having access to Karl Marx.) He kind of just assumed that Gojo being in a league of his own after awakening meant they could never be together as The Strongest duo.

That insecurity was so pervasive he initiated their break up by objectifying Gojo for his strength. And he later assumed Gojo stopped loving him too.

But you might be onto something with Geto's jealousy starting with Toji. Though he didn't see Gojo awaken (which was essentially "la petite mort" or the little death), Geto was around to hear Gojo call Toji アンタ (Anta). And that particular usage of Anta was really weird.

(Yeah this is one of those asks that poked my neuroses in just the right way.)

-Content Warning: Brief discussion of teenage sexuality.

-Mangareader(.)to for the raws.

-TCBscans for everything but Vol 0.

(Click images for captions/citations.)

Gojo's You Pronouns

I kind of lost my mind over Sukuna's you pronoun usage if you want to know why this kind of thing matters to me. Thankfully, Gojo's you pronoun usage is much more straightforward. Which is why the use of Anta for Toji sticks out a lot.

Gojo usually uses オマエ (Omae—masculine, informal, between peers or to look down on the addressee) for absolutely everyone. Friends, enemies? Doesn't matter, he's using Omae. It's either that, 君 (Kimi—affectionate towards juniors) with his students, or he avoids using you pronouns to be polite. He has only deviated from this pattern with two people—Uraume with てまえ (Temee—hostile and offensive), and Anta with Toji.

Anta is a contraction of あなた (Anata) and both are used in the exact same way. It's an informal you mostly used by people learning Japanese since normal use suggests a familiar and casual relationship with the addressee. That can be rude depending on the context. In the context of love, it's a romantic thing, colloquially called the wife pronoun as its often used by a wife to her husband. The only real difference between Anta and Anata is the indication of class. As a contraction, Anta is seen as more low class/uneducated than Anata.

So what did Gojo mean by his use of Anta with Toji?

Since Anta can indicate the speaker is casual/friendly, uneducated, or flirting, we'll have to infer what Gojo meant with context. Sometimes, it's easier to look at how other characters use this pronoun to get an idea.

For example, Hanami uses Anata for everyone which is why there's nothing flirtatious about them using it. This is just how they talk in general and they aren't singling anyone out in a special way.

A male character who uses Anta for most people in the way Hanami uses Anata is Ike from Fire Emblem. (I'm so sorry this is the only guy I can think of using this as a default you pronoun and he's from a completely different series.)

Ike uses Ore (masculine, informal) as his personal pronoun and he was raised as a mercenary with no formal education, so the Anta in context is more of him being from the lower class and casual. Anta is also less masculine than Omae, so this is also gives Ike that soft edge to his roughness that everyone loves him for. When he uses Anta while speaking to nobles in Path of Radiance Ch 14, they find it extremely offensive and get pissed because they perceive it as him not showing enough respect. (And he does call them out for being dickholes using Anta which makes them even angrier.)

If I recall correctly, (sorry I only really remember Zelgius and Sephiran's pronouns because it subtly confirms them a queer couple), Ike uses Omae (or Temee? The fudging accessible JP transcript went poof.) for the Black Knight and no one else. The Black Knight killed his father and Ike hates him for this. This Omae is not friendly, it's hostile.

I use this example because it shows how for one character these pronouns mean one thing and other characters it the polar opposite. Gojo uses Omae to be friendly, Ike uses Omae to be hostile. Ike uses Anta to be friendly, Gojo uses Anta to...

I don't know.

I don't know why Gojo uses Anta for Toji. It's really fudging odd and he never uses it again or for anyone else. Gojo for Toji uses Anta then Omae then Anta.

First it's confusion over being stabbed. I think in this context it means more of "hey there, buddy" in the way someone might try to talk down an aggressive person by trying to be chummy.

At the time, it probably told Geto something was really wrong because Gojo never uses that pronoun.

The Omae he swaps to is normal Gojo usage. He explains how Toji screwed up with killing him in the way he's been talking at all the assassins that came after Riko.

But internally? Toji remains Anta. This is weird since Gojo usually just sticks to Omae or some kind of nomer when he doesn't know people's names.

Leading up to this internal monologue, Gojo is not angry. He's extremely zen. So much so that he apologizes to Riko for not being upset she was just murdered. This makes me think the Anta isn’t meant to be disparaging.

Anta has always been less harsh than Omae in comparison. It can imply a distance between the speaker and addressee or it can suggest they're very close.

I can't tell if Gojo is trying to express a unique kinship he feels with Toji or if he's putting Toji on a pedestal of strength he idolizes and considers himself separate from. Perhaps it's both and this confusion is intentional. Gojo is a teenager figuring himself out in the most traumatic way possible here. My point is that this use of Anta indicates Gojo feels some kind of way about Toji he doesn't for anyone else.

Toji is very special to Gojo.

Most people are aware of Gojo picking up certain habits and speech patterns because Geto. Rereading JJK after learning about Gojo's history with Geto turns a lot of his silly quirks into things that are really depressing.

Toji is second to Geto in terms of influencing adult Gojo's behavior I think. Not just in the paranoia he experiences of being made vulnerable again, but some of his speaking mannerisms. Gojo asking for last words before he kills someone started with Toji.

He has that same empty look when he does it each time too. This doesn't seem to be like him mourning Toji in the way he mourns Geto by speaking in the way his beloved suggested. It's like he's reliving trauma. And dear lord did Toji traumatize Gojo. The kind of terror in the faces teenage Gojo makes while being hunted and killed are never made again.

But despite this, Gojo as an adult seems to look back on this awful experience fondly sometimes. When Sukuna starts to make him think he's about to lose, Gojo smiles as he recalls this feeling.

Satisfaction? Being killed by this guy was satisfying? I suppose it makes sense, this temporary death did awaken him to immense power that made him feel amazing. In that sense, Toji was Gojo's greatest teacher. And as a teacher, Gojo molds a philosophy from that experience and tries to imbue it on his students in a less traumatic fashion. (I say tries because this still killed Yuji by accident and caused a lot of unneeded stress for the second years in Vol 0.)

As you can see here, Gojo thinks this way because he did die alone despite having strong allies. And because his death made him stronger, he thinks growth can be triggered in a similar fashion. Geto calls him out on how fudged up this “tough love” is.

Gray morally aside, these beliefs and actions are because of Toji. A lot of what Gojo is as an adult is one giant unhealthy coping mechanism for Toji, fondness included.

When Nanami calls Gojo a Jujutsu Pervert he isn't wrong. Gojo is a freak that gets off to fighting in part due to Toji. It's like this horrible little ball of fear, denial, and horny with him. Thinking about Toji being the last person who satisfied him in that way over Geto isn't out of character. The types of blissed out faces he made during that fight do pop up in the Sukuna fight.

We also have to acknowledge that Toji is at the got dang afterlife airport with everyone else. For some reason, despite all the pain he inflicted, Gojo admires him on a similar level to the people who didn't want him dead.

Toji is a lot of Gojo's firsts. His first fear, his first death, his first awakening, and most importantly his first exposure to revolution. Toji is the first person Gojo met that escaped the bindings of Jujutsu Society and obtained freedom. He defied the Zenins and started a life outside of them. His pride and grief brought him back, but for a few years he was the impossible success story.

Though Geto heavily influenced Gojo’s morality, Toji was the basis for Gojo’s revolutionary ideas. It shows in how he trains his students and values the strength of non-sorcerers. He correctly identifies that Toji only wound up this way because of Jujutsu Society, mainly the higher ups, and vows to do something about it.

Is this to prevent another Toji because of fear? Is this how Gojo honors his memory too? Both, probably. Toji basically asked Gojo to be the godfather to Megumi, his son named Blessing, and prevent him from being raised a Zenin. In other words, he gave Gojo his blessing to do better than him and break that awful generational cycle. Gojo has taken that very seriously.

Megumi knows next to nothing about the Zenins until he's made the head after Naobito dies and Maki massacres them. The fact that Megumi being made the head ultimately triggered Maki's massacre of the Zenin Clan is like Toji getting exactly what he wanted from beyond the grave. A mini revolution made possible with Gojo laying the groundwork by providing a space where Maki can exist without hate.

Geto's Jealousy

As Geto was spiralling, he probably thought back on Gojo’s use of Anta with Toji and got a little jealous. After all, Toji was the reason Gojo grew so much as a sorcerer instead of him.

Can you imagine? The love of your life keeps telling you that together you're The Strongest and that's why he's with you. But he goes off with some dude after calling him something he's never called you and comes back a god. He grew more in those few minutes with this rando than the years he spent with you combined. Inadequate wouldn't even scratch the surface of that feeling.

It was always a one-sided admiration—Toji was a bum who leeched off women as you would expect any straight dude would coming from an immensely misogynistic household. He killed children for money and had beef with an 8 year old after looking at him once. But Geto still might've been envious that a non-sorcerer did more for Gojo’s growth than any sorcerer.

Geto’s Coping

The aftermath of Toji put a strain on their relationship in more ways than one. First and foremost, it made Gojo The Strongest. As I said earlier, this caused Geto to become insecure with his place in Gojo’s life. But what I didn’t mention is that the higher ups exploiting this newfound strength is why this never got addressed until it was way too late.

As shown here Geto’s condition gets worse because not only is he mentally isolated from Gojo, but physically as well. A horrible little detail—changes in weight can be very gradual. If you're with someone all the time, you'll likely never notice it. Gojo was kept separate from Geto for so long that this difference was noticeable.

They fall out of sync because Jujutsu Society has decided that their labor is more valuable apart. The problem here exploitation. Toji made it extremely clear to both Gojo and Geto that was the problem. Geto unfortunately came to the wrong conclusion on how to deal with it.

Tags from @nyan-bynary on this post sum up my feelings on this nicely.

#OK OK I HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT HOW GETO GOT RADICALIZED BASICALLY INTO FASCISM BC HE ENDED UP BLAMING THE WRONG CLASS FOR THEIR OPPRESSION #LIKE THIS IS SO VERY MUCH THE CASE WITH LIKE RANDO WHITE LIBERTARIANS AND SHIT IRL TOO LIKE THEY NOTICE SHIT SUCKS #BUT THEY END UP BLAMING THE EVEN MORE OPPRESSED PEOPLE INSTEAD OF TAKING THAT ANGER UPWARDS TOWARDS THE ACTUAL PPL DESTROYING EVERYTHING

#like geto saw a man who was so fucking abused and treated like shit by his clan that he basically ran away and started a new life #where he resents the people who were oppressing him but he still had to work for similar people to make ends meet #and in doing so was made a pawn for the internal power struggles of the higher ups #which hurt the other people lower in the hierarchy as well including gojo and geto #but instead of seeing the hand that guided everything here he blamed the toy in the hand instead #devoting himself to destroy every single toy which unknowingly included himself and the sorcerers he wanted to protect so badly as well

#like in his efforts to gather sorcerers he ended up doing a better more inclusive job of gathering sorceres from EVERYWHERE he could reach #he had the true potential to make real grassroot connections with fellow oppressed people but he was misguided on who the target should be #like it's ironic that the only black sorcerer that we see is in the group of the guy that calls non sorceres 'monkeys' #because it says something about him that his problem actually wasn't racism (against non-sorcerers) #it was the high risk terrible lifestyle forced upon every sorcerer in the name of non-sorcerers #WHO DON'T EVEN KNOW YOU GUYS EXIST AND ARE BEING EXPLOITED LIKE THIS IN THEIR NAME IN THE FIRST PLACE MAYBE TRY TO FIX THAT AT SOME POINT???

#it's all so sad bc the moment he chose the wrong people to blame his fate was sealed and it sucks bc he could've done real good things #gojo was the closest to doing anything remotely revolutionary but he went the too peaceful route and it cost him everything #he didn't organize or protest with enough destruction or maybe he thought he couldn't until it became a last resort

#like I find it funny that despite everything gojo wanted to do bc his form of resistance was so lax he ended up alienating hakari and kirara #and the elders. the divide and conquerers that they were used it to expel them from the school #just ahhhhhhhhh so many thoughts I wish they could've done more I wish I wish I wish

In that post, I joked that Karl Marx could’ve saved Geto, but that wasn’t really a joke. Trying to address exploitation without the theoretical framework to be productive about it is like swimming against an ocean riptide at night. You can recognize that you’re drowning, but not knowing where the shore is or that you need to swim at an angle instead of directly against the current dooms you.

The really sad thing is that Geto never realized that non-sorcerers were exploited just like him. Nanami worked directly alongside them and realized their exploitation was one in the same.

He realized that this exploitation was a systemic issue. Gojo realized that those in power were responsible for enforcing it. Both of them lacked the drive to be aggressive about that in the way Geto was. Together, the 3 of them really could’ve unionized to obtain the work-life balance they desperately needed.

But that was never going to happen. The higher ups isolated them until their communication skills and therefore relationships deteriorated alongside their mental states. (Notice how even outside of Jujustu Nanami has no friends. He's just as alone as those two.)

Geto's Love

I don’t think Geto ever learned how to love properly after Toji in a very similar vein to Gojo. Though he more outwardly shows affection to his family, there’s this sense of distance he has between them as a cult leader. His children call him Master and do not take his last name. He’s worshiped as a figurehead and for his beauty. And no one really understands him in the way Gojo used to.

And it must also be noted that the anguish from his family and daughters at his possession did not cause his body to stir. Only Gojo calling his name did.

It's not that Geto doesn't love his family, he just loves Gojo more despite having spent less time with him. (10 years with his family vs 3 years with Gojo.) Even Geto himself says that his family isn’t enough for him to be truly happy.

A world where sorcerers are not exploited is what he thinks will fix this. He wants this for himself, his family, and Gojo. Especially Gojo.

Their breakup was caused by Gojo being exploited more than anyone else. Geto has always objected to that. A world of only sorcerers hypothetically gets rid of the labor exploitation Geto hates for every sorcerer. And it also creates a world where Gojo doesn't need to be The Strongest. It's a world where instead of being overworked, Gojo will have all the time in the world for Geto.

This love Geto holds for Gojo underlies his actions. Him setting this ridiculous plan into motion on December 24th is a grandiose romantic gesture. You can feel the resentment and the longing. He tried to fill the Gojo hole in his heart with a new family and hatred only to fail.

Gojo reciprocated. He always did. But neither of them realized the love was mutual until both of them were dead because work came first.

So yeah anon, Geto was jealous. Both Toji and Sukuna got to know Gojo in ways he couldn’t because being an enemy of Gojo ironically gives them more direct attention from him since that’s a part of work.

Jujustu Society vs Queerness

Even if Gojo and Geto realized their love before everything went to hell, I'm not sure if they would've acted on it due to societal stigma.

Like @nyan-bynary mentioned, Kiara's transness is something the higher ups no doubt rejected. The type of conservatism modern Japan is under does not embrace the open queerness of the past that was especially prevalent during the Heian Era, you know the Jujutsu Golden Age. In a reflection of these politics, the Zenins embody the type of sexual hierarchy wanted by the elders—men run everything and women have children. Even though Hakari and Kiara are a straight couple, they're unable to have children together which is rebellion in of itself. Why Gojo didn't do more for them is kind of baffling.

To be fair, Gojo kind of sucks at sticking up against injustices like this. Hakari and Kiara aren't the only failed in this way. When Geto is verbally discriminatory towards Maki, Gojo doesn't refute his beliefs, Yuta does.

This is honestly, pretty fudged up. Gojo just lets Geto be horrible and offers a weak "don't do that" as a response instead of arguing for Maki's personhood. And we know for a fact he is strong enough to do something and be taken seriously. After all, he did threaten the elders to protect Yuta's life. He didn't stop Geto until he became a large-scale physical threat. For some reason, that's the only type of discrimination Gojo will act on—violent acts that will result in death.

I think this is because Geto told him he needed a really good reason to kill other humans before he snapped. It took a lot of convincing for Gojo to slaughter the higher ups as the result of this. His inaction here could also stem from Gojo being so used to dehumanization that he hardly recognizes it as a problem. But Gojo did force Nanami to address Yuji as a human child instead of Sukuna's Vessel later, so perhaps he reflected on this exchange and tried to do better. (Despite allowing everyone else from Kyoto to be weird about Yuji.)

Regardless, it's this passive mentality when it comes to non-violent discrimination that makes me think Gojo wouldn't have acted on his feelings for Geto.

There's probably a lot of pressure on Gojo to have progeny of some kind (aka be straight and have babies). I do find it a bit odd we've seen nothing of his Clan to the point that Megumi also knows nothing about it. (Though this was probably to spare him the politics drama for the enjoyment of his youth.) They did spoil Gojo rotten, but that doesn't mean backwards societal expectations weren't thrust on him from birth. He was raised to be a living weapon you know. Suppression of his own queerness was likely a part of that education.

And though Gojo is pretty rebellious when it comes to challenging the status quo, like antagonizing those older than him and letting those younger than him speak freely around him, he still has some toxic ideas from his youth he hasn't let go of. He prioritizes his strength over bonds and allows himself to be exploited while trying to make sure his students don't wind up like him...by having them prioritize strength through pushing their limits.

In other words, Gojo would likely just repress his feelings for Geto if it meant obtaining his goals. A queer relationship would be used against him by the higher ups since it rebels against the expectations of Jujustu Society in a way he hasn't pushed hard against. (I'm so sorry Hakari and Kiara.)

With that being said, it's not all that surprising that a lot of the curse users are openly queer. They've freed themselves of exploitation and expectations. Their genders and sexualities are theirs to control. None of them are shy about it. Larue openly loves Geto, Sukuna will kill you for not respecting his disinterest in romance and sex, Uraume will kill you for not respecting that, Kashimo will hit on a man as he's being killed by him, Kenjaku is Kenjaku.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Gojo is at his horniest when he's fighting other men. It's like the one space where he's allowed to engage that side of himself without fear of repercussion because at the end of the day, one of them is going to be dead anyways. (His flirting with Nanami when they're alone together not included.) Sometimes queer people want their love with violence because it’s the only way they can have their sexuality without guilt. That punishment absolves the sin.

Jujutsu Society as it stands is not compatible with queerness. Gojo has a really fudged up way of expressing his attraction to men as the result of this. And if you ask me, I think Toji is the one who really got his wires crossed.

#cactus yaps #Yeah this analysis goes all over the place but I will always tie it back to socialism.#I annotated Posadas to write a fic one time I cannot be stopped.#Labor exploitation and queer struggles go hand in hand.#The queerness of JJK enhances the discussion on labor. I think it's a disservice to keep them separate.#Relationships deteriorate under poor working conditions that alienate laborers from their fellow man.#And since queer relationships are an antithesis to the model that generates the most profit for the capitalist they must be crushed.#JJK is a story about queer men being driven insane by Jujustu Society which is an allegory for labor exploitation I swear to fudge.#I apologize to tumblr user nyan-bynary for coming at you like this.#Can you tell I used to fight people on Twitter over Fire Emblem?#I miss it. Someone come try to deny Ike is canonically gay again.#That particular argument got IkeSoren put in a gay museum. Very proud of that still.#satosugu #geto suguru #fushiguro toji #gojo satoru #jujutsu kaisen #jjk spoilers #asks

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justaz · 3 months ago

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coleaders klance who have each others back whilst arguing til they're blue in the face. a dignitary from a planet watching keith and lance argue and lance says something and runs away before keith can rebut it which leaves him scowling. the dignitary seeing this as their way in with the black paladin and saddling up to him and complaining about lance. keith doing a complete 180, his eyes going yellow and his skin slowly shifting purple as he glares at the alien and the alien panics and is just like "haha sike hes actually really cool and amazing and i would do anything he asks ahahahaplsdontkillmehaha"

a dignitary finding out keith is galran and seeing klance argue so he goes to lance, the red paladin and second in line should anything happen to the black paladin, and insulting keith's heritage and implying that should lance stage a coup then he'd have whatever planet the random alien is from in his corner. lance pasting on a wide, faux smile and "soothing" the aliens fears/concerns about keith being galran by saying that if their planet doesnt want a galran to save them then voltron wont force them to join the coalition and they can fight the empire themselves. the alien freaking bc hello??? their planet against the might of the galran empire?? they'd be crushed!! and the alien is just like "i meant no offense im so sorry pls dont leave us for dead"

#coleader klance coleader klance coleader klance coleader klance coleader klance #i need more of them #i love lance being a skilled diplomat too #so like when the team sit with all these aliens to get them to agree to joining the coalition #its allura and lance leading the discussions bc if keith is involved he'll eventually stab the table with his knife #and complain about how annoying theyre being bc voltron is trying to help protect them #so like keith does the battle leading while lance does the diplomat leading #they are a good team #keith is fire and lance is ice #keith has a temper and is incredibly impulsive so lance is the one to reign him in #meanwhile lance can freeze up and get too in his head about things and keith is the one to light a fire under his ass #LISTEN TO ME IM RIGHT #voltron #vld #voltron legendary defender #keith kogane #lance mcclain #klance

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mouldycakes · 2 months ago

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TRANSLATION

Steve: Hi! Danny: Wow! Hey, how- how- how handsome, he, in his suit. Steve: It's for you. I wore it for you. Danny: Thank you. Steve: You're welcome.

Steve: Hey, what are you doing?

Danny: Is that a clip-on?

Steve: It's not a clip-on. What did I say?!

Danny: Your tie is crooked. Can I fix it, love?

Danny: Darling, come here.

Steve: Thank you.

Danny: I thought they didn't wear ties in Hawaii.

Steve: They don't, but it's a special day. So I wore it.

LatAm dub once again killing me here, with cuteness.

#mcdanno #Danny Williams #steve mcgarrett #H50 #hawaii five 0 #LatAm dub #Danny: te la arreglo amor?#Steve: *mirando pa todos lados como que ay mamita que me llamaste en frente de todos?**danny no es momento de blanquear lo nuestro*#Danny's besotted look at the end *sigh*#to think my introduction to this show was scrolling down someone's blog and seeing #news of PL being fired for being a garbage human to people he worked with then kept scrolling i saw q-bait discussions #from different shows that mentioned mcdanno from h50 and PL #then I saw some gifs and some quotes - thought 'hmm' and then I watched the first ep and then I was a goner #the fanvid 'you're mine' deserves special mention bc I love it #video #I do remember someone saying the French dub had Steve referring to Danny as his wife to an EMT need to find that one

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fromtheseventhhell · 8 months ago

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If we get a scene of Arya crowning Jon, it needs to parallel the scene of Jon gifting Needle to Arya for me. A personal scene between the two of them that's about their unconditional love for each other. It isn't about Jon becoming King but about Arya supporting him in the same way he supported her. "Girls get the arms but not the swords. Bastards get the swords but not the arms" come full circle with two outcasts supporting each other occupying spaces that society says they can't

#arya stark #jon snow #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #and it goes without saying that Jon will continue to support Arya's non-conformity when they reunite #I've seen a lot of people frame this theory as though we think that Arya is going to /make/ Jon King but that isn't the case for me #it's about their love and support for each other and Arya passing Robb's crown onto Jon would be a full-circle moment for both of them #The thought of them having a more mature conversation where they both discuss their insecurities is just so 🥹#/Jon will want me even if no one else does/ /she could always make Jon smile/ their relationship is just elite I don't make the rules #Their scenes in AGOT aren't enough I need them attached at the hip when they reunite!#either way their reunion is going to destroy me 😭

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arsenicflame · 4 months ago

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Izzy Hands in the captains cabin late at night, sat by the fire with his leg off, shirt untucked and waistcoat unbuttoned, hair falling loose around his face (and then getting tucked behind his ear), a pair of tiny glasses perched on the end of his nose, glass of fine brandy by his side, and book in hand.

#thank you for coming to my ted talk #we are not here to discuss the risks of an open fire on a wooden boat. we're here to make than man COSY #nyxtalks #ofmd #our flag means death #izzy hands #israel hands #stupid tiny glasses agenda reigns supreme #why is he in the captains cabin? idk stedes the only idiot with a library AND a fireplace

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fictonrantsworld · 1 year ago

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I just find it funny, that alicent,the epitome of duty and graciousness, probably likes it for people, especially her children, to behave in an orderly conduct befitting their station, to then have a daughter that casually leans and basically folds herself 90 degrees over the table to make sure otto sees the details in her beetle (that aegon got for her-this is the alleged rumours of the script im not 100% sure myself).

Like i imagine as a personal headcanon, back when they were still friends, rhaenyra was the tomboy princess, that was always reminded by a half japing young alicent to act like a proper lady, then years later u have helaena like:

u can clearly see helaena even putting her legs up to push her body forward, so her favourite peepaw can look at her beetle.

While rewatching this scene and putting my volume up in my headphones,im pretty sure i heard her distinctively say 'look at it' to otto.

Another thing, its just hilarious to me that aegon and aemond noticed viserys coming in and started going to their seats while helaena didnt even bother😭😂.(she probably didnt notice lol)

Also the last pic, I can't, like what were rhaenyra and daemon thinking when she did that lol. I need the script for this whole episode

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crowleysgirl56 · 2 months ago

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Ok, so I wanted to do a deeper dive into this particular passage of Good Omens:

For context, this is at the climax of the book, they’re at Tadfield airbase, the horsemen have been dispensed with, Aziraphale has his body back, and Satan is about to claw his way out of the pit.

In most of the proceeding chapters involving Crowley it talks a lot about how scared Crowley is. He is very scared of Hell.

One could perhaps say maybe he is scared of them due to The Arrangement, but that is never explicitly stated. I think it has more to do with Hell is bad, and Crowley has spent the majority of the book being yelled at by some entity through the radio or TV telling him how he’s going to be in super amounts of trouble when they get their hands on him. He is just scared of what will happen. When he comes across the book shop burning he doesn’t cry for his lost friend. He curses Aziraphale, and I think it’s because the one person who may have been able to keep him safe and protected from Hell is now gone.

So when he thinks to himself (as shown in the above screen shot) that there is now nothing left for him to lose, this is why I never thought (upon reading the book the first time that is) there were any romantic feelings between him and Aziraphale. I know that technically he had already lost Aziraphale. But by this point he was back again, and back in his body. If there truly were romantic thoughts between them surely the idea of losing him again would come up.

I have read so much fanfiction, some old, some new, and what they all have in common is the detailed inner monologue of Crowley’s turmoil over his feelings for Aziraphale and how he doesn’t feel like he can act on them. In the book we get nothing of the sort, from either character. Even when they’re separated there is hardly ever any description of them thinking of the other except occasionally to frame a short reference to something. Reading the book I never got the impression that there was anything more than two ethereal beings spending time and proximity to each other and doing work for each other for no other reason than they’re essentially a bit lazy.

I think they’re only queer coded for the fact that there’s the line about Aziraphale appearing “gayer than a tree full of monkeys on nitric oxide”, and Crowley is, well, very Freddie Mercury coded. Them being seen as gay together and all the gay slurs in the awful racist scenes of Aziraphale body hopping about in culturally indigenous people after the bookshop fire has more to do with the very typical 80’s/90’s trope of “being gay = comedy gold”, than them actually being together romantically.

I think the reason why they were shipped so much after the publication however is for the same reason we ship so many male couples (or female couple) in modern media, why we’ve always shipped them: because of the complete and horrid lack there of, of proper queer representation.

If you’ve ever seen the magnificent Russel T Davies TV series It’s a Sin, there is a wonderful scene where the character Ash starts a job in a school library and the headmaster asks him to go through all the books and find any book that has queer love scenes so they can be removed. Ash then gives a most beautiful and impassioned speech (albeit it turns out the speech is just in his head) of how there is nothing. Absolutely nothing. There is nothing to the point where they are nonexistent. They are invisible. They are not seen. (Or like, something to that effect. I tell you though, it’s bloody brilliant).

So I think that’s rather the point really. You have two iconic characters, albeit supporting bit characters practically, and I think a lot of our minds automatically get drawn to wanting to put them together because of the sheer lack of queer couples. People have been doing it for years from Frodo and Sam, to Harry Potter and Draco (or Ron I guess), to Sherlock and Watson (even before the Benedict Cumberbatch show. Also as an aside let’s not get into how obsessed people got about Sherlock Holmes back in the day when those books were first published. The obsession was the reason Doyle killed the character off the in first place, then after getting letters from people telling him they were literally going to kill themselves, the reasons why he resurrected him again. Don’t tell us that modern day nerds are weird and obsessive. We’ve ALWAYS been like this).

It’s for this reason why queer representation is so god damn important. Why I still support the idea of Good Omens season 3. Because regardless of how the characters were originally intending to be represented in the book, it’s very clear now that they are so much more than “Just friends”. And we NEED that! Whether you subscribe to the idea that they will be physically intimate with each other, the fact remains is they love each other. They love each other immensely. And that comes from years of Terry Pratchett (and the other guy) accepting that canon and telling fans that it’s true. Because Michael Sheen made a choice and held a belief about how he saw his character and then David Tennant followed suit. That literally tens of thousands of fanfiction writers have decided the same.

So that’s my take. I don’t think loving each other was ever intended that way in the book, but in the last 35 years their story has morphed into the ineffable husbands that we now know.

What are your thoughts? Have I rambled on long enough to make any sense? Do you agree? Have I missed something completely obvious and gotten it all wrong? Keen to hear thoughts.

#good omens #book omens #crowley #aziraphale #ineffable husbands #aziracrow #good omens fandom #crowley x arizaphale #david tennant #Michael Sheen #Terry Pratchett #fire neil gaiman #good omens discussions

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throwawayasoiafaccount · 2 months ago

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i’m genuinely shocked by this:

how can someone miss the point by such a large margin that they end up implying that Rhaenyra’s cause would have had no positive impact on the women of the realm?

how can one’s thought process be so far removed from the actual reality? is this the inconsistent logic one must tangle in to become a green? have these people never sat in a history class before?

jeyne arryn anyone? does she not exist to them? a point actually made in the book (not one twisted by the greens to advance their agenda) was that her rulership of the vale would’ve been seriously endangered and put into question if the greens won. but that is conveniently ignored by these interesting… folks.

i can understand the anger this person has with the horrible dance of the dragons adaptation and its treatment of female characters. and i mean it. especially when i say female characters. because alicent isn’t the female character who’s actually getting the shortest end of the stick. it was rhaenyra and rhaenys who were the most grievously declawed. rhaenyra is queen. her council is supposed to be her council. the war is supposed to be her war for her throne, not for some stupid prophecy that should’ve logically been lost a long time ago. and rhaenys is a baratheon with a temper and a dragon rider who would’ve burnt the greens and melted their bones if she had the chance. but for some reason the show decided to make a whole new character and slap rhaenys name on it.

to be clear: rhaenyra and rhaenys were powerful in their own right. they had dragons and were a part of the royal dynasty with claims to the throne. their power is theirs. it is derived from them.

alicent’s power is derived from the power of the men she is related to. that’s literally what the queen dowager title means. her influence is dependent on if the men in her life and her children listen to her. they don’t have to, and many characters don’t listen to her in the book, which is why i say she wasn’t the most grievously declawed.

it’s also hilarious that this person considers the queen dowager position to be the most powerful position in the greens court. they must have never read a cersei chapter as she faces her loss of power, which showcases the fickle nature of the power women hold in the westerosi patriarchy.

the correct sequence of power in the greens court is: the usurper king. then the hand. then the princes, specifically the usurper kings brothers, and then the queen consort, as they have dragons and claims to the throne. then the lords who can call on armies and fleets and have coffers that run deep. then the queen dowager, who has little influence outside of kings landing and therefore not as much influence in court as others.

the case the screenshotted post tries to make is that non-targ women’s positions aren’t advanced by rhaenyra being queen, which, as i pointed out above, is not true, nor is it what rhaenyra is fighting for. rhaenyra fought for her throne, which she had a legal claim to. that’s all. many houses joined her instead of joining the usurpers because of many different reasons, but, imo, three of the most important reasons for joining the blacks/staying neutral were 1) women’s inheritance rights (and women in general) should be respected 2) the head of the houses heir and the heirs right to inherit should be respected 3) oaths should be respected.

i also want to point out that women, most obviously targaryen women, did lose power after rhaenyra’s death and due to the concessions made to the greens and their ideology by the blacks for peace along with anti-rhaenyra propaganda that set women’s inheritance rights and the general power they could hold back by quite a lot.

and funnily enough, we see this first with jaehaera, who, while was a queen, was most likely murdered by the character who was supposed to be guarding her because no one gave a shit about a targaryen girls status and the potential consequences of killing her because they knew they could get away with it; and her death directly led to alicent’s line ending. the reality is that there were practically no consequences, as it seemed to have been easily covered up as a suicide, because the targaryens lost so much power after the dance, which directly put the targaryen women in the line of fire. if the targaryen women couldn’t be used they’d be discarded. and jaehaera, a simple girl who’s entire family was all dead besides one, and who’s father was greatly disliked by many, was an eyesore to those who wished for more power. so she was killed. brutally.

and the reason the women of house targaryen were so vulnerable? it’s because they had no claim to anything anymore! no one could try to use jaehaera for power so no greedy lords sought her favor nor did any want to protect her! and jaehaera is just the start because afterwards we get the maidens in the vault, then viserys ii is installed over daena, and then everything about naerys and her horrid husband, maekar over daenora, and eventually everything concludes with young princess rhaenys and rhaella over a hundred years later. tragic.

it’s literally downhill after rhaenyra’s death.

#otto getting fired a second time because the usurper king didn’t want to listen to alicent 😶#why is green shit popping up on my for you page #anti greens #anti team green stans #anti team green #dance of the dragons #anti hotd #anti alicent stans #anti alicent hightower #rhaenyra targaryen #pro rhaenyra targaryen #jaehaera targaryen #rhaenys the queen who never was #jeyne arryn #cersei lannister #is there a tag just for discussions about the westerosi patriarchy?#pro team black #the blacks #i’m getting sucked back into hotd fandom drama 😞#i really do hate that show #love the actors and actresses tho. i wish they had a better script #hotd fandom critical #power in court is literally: hey what do you control and what can i gain by using or allying with you?#characters only allied with alicent because she was so close to the throne and the targaryens #like i stated in my post: this kind of power is fickle.

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ganondoodle · 3 months ago

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honestly cant stand how technically important demise is and yet how he doesnt actually matter or exist in peoples minds as a character, the only thing that matters is his stupid "curse" thing and its the only thing why he will ever be brought up, theres never really any thought around him that isnt related to the "cuuuurse", otherwise he basically doesnt exist in the fandom

to some extent its understandable given how little he actually is in the game but it still makes me sad and a little frustrated imo he shouldnt be treated like soemthing so unimportant given hes involved with the literal start of the timeline

and worst of all is how he and ganondorf make each other worse, like their link is completely deniable yet its like more often than not treated like gan is to demise what zelda is to hylia, but even that isnt used interestingly no, its only ever to write off gan as "well, hes just a demon, demons need no motives or character, they are jsut evil" WHICH IS SO BORING, and people will be HAPPY about that??? they go yippie gan is jsut an evil demon yaaay like the fuck???

it goes around to that other post i made about how not wanting a better written gan is wanting everything to be worse, bc a better written villain is a better written everything and there is only winning in that

demise specifically is just a sore spot for me since hes my blorbo, and the way even gan fans hate him for introducing the "cuuurse" thing just makes it hurt doubly, i get why, still its just so .. man i wish BOTH gan and demise were allowed to be characters, at least gan was a character at some point, demise has nothing ;__;

#ganondoodles talks #zelda #sudden demise feelings go brrrrrr #whenever he does get mentioned by anyone i cant even go “demise mention!!”#bc the only thing that he gets mentioned for is the damn curse thing #which i dont care about and actually hate bc its a big reason why so many gan discussions are outright impossible now #and is the reason he doesnt get any other thought than that #yeehaw lets just shift the blame around #bc thats better #to fix it we should invent another literal satan guy who is actually controlling demise #thats like how it went with him and gan #its just so BORING #stop shifting the evil incarnate thing around that doesnt solve its problem #it just shoves it onto another character #grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr #and he never got ANY merch #he didnt even get a watercolor painting #no #he has ONE concept art #they jsut drew buff dude and gave him fire hair and put no more thought into it #drives me up a wall

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rainy-writers · 3 months ago

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poor pitiful greens, who would’ve been slaughtered had Rhaenyra taken the throne. They had every right to usurp her because obviously they and their children deserve to live…obviously they deserve to live more than Jace, Luke, little Joffery, Aegon, Viserys, Baela and Rhaena who also would’ve been slaughtered had the Greens succeeded, right?

It kills me when people say that the greens would have been slaughtered had Rhaenyra taken the throne because they were too much of a challenge and use that to justify usurping her. Like you do realize…if they’re a challenge to Rhaenyra and her kids then it’s vice versa? If they can’t live while Rhaenyra reigns then that means Rhaenyra’s kids can’t either. But apparently it’s okay for Jace, Luke, Joffery, Viserys, Aegon, Baela and Rhaena to die if it means your favs get to win. All of a sudden, you’re okay with children dying if it means a man can now rule Westeros. A woman and her innocent children dying is okay to you because what? It’s “normal for a woman to rule?” Aegon should be King because…he’s a man? Because Viserys spent years advocating for him, right? Because this rapist, abuser piece of shit and his psychotic brothers who burned millions and allowed for the rape of little girls are somehow better than their sister who only raised taxes?

Alicent can fear for her children’s lives against the woman who’d never even think about harming them, but Rhaenyra can’t fear for her kids—who Alicent literally tried to get executed for years?

And don’t give that bullshit: the Greens would never!

Uh, canonically, they did! Unprovoked! Before they even got the fucking throne! They did it with Rhaenys and Luke—who, no matter much you call him Strong, is still related to them from Rhaenyra. Team Green has personally harmed their own family, their own blood in broad daylight and have celebrated doing so, so what makes you think they’d spare the rest? What honestly makes you think they’d let them live? Luke was a child, so no, even the children wouldn’t be spared.

Alicent has spent over twenty years fear mongering and terrorizing her own children to the point where it just could not happen. They would execute every single one of the Team Black kids down to Visenya if she had lived.

Yes they would’ve killed two year old little Aegon and Viserys and they’d have been happy to do it. Lest we not forget these are the same people who threw a party, canonically, when Luke was killed so…yeah. Aemond and Daeron probably would’ve forcibly married Baela and Rhaena and raped them…But that’s okay to you people, right? Because at least it isn’t happening to the fucking misogynist Greens who didn’t deserve the throne anyways.

The difference between them and Rhaenyra is that she has never given any indications that she thinks Kinslaying is right. Book or show, Rhaenyra understands the weight of such titles and what it would mean. She understands it would forever stain the name Targaryen if she killed not one, but SIX members of her own family. Obviously it’s this fucking Rhaneyra that would’ve killed them all though, right? It’s Rhaenyra, and not the Greens or her idiot brothers who canonically been classified as Kinslayers and usurpers, who would not have let TG live.

Book or show, you cannot even argue that they’re not Kinslayers because hopefully even TG stans aren’t so delusional to outright deny what we’ve seen. Which means that YES, they would’ve killed all those kids and then used their big scary dragons to terrorize anyone who didn’t agree—as they did the exact same media you’re seeing them in.

In the same book or show, nothing ever indicates that Rhaenyra would kill them. In fact, she actively gives them a chance to bend the knee after they kill her son, and furthermore, she does not spend years terrorizing her children with the idea they’ll be slaughtered so they have to kill the other side, even the children, because if not they’ll do the same to them.

The only difference in this scenario is that the people who raised the TB kids would have spared the Greens, while the people who have been raised to be hateful and spiteful against even the innocent people in their family would’ve given the TB kid’s death not second thought.

You guys simply don’t understand the tabooness of Kinslaying, and it’s becoming a popular trend that people think you can just get away with it and nothing will happen. You cannot just go around killing people of your own fucking family with no consequences. No matter how delusional you and Alicent might be, it cannot happen without major consequences. It’s the main reason majority of Westeros DID NOT support the greens bc it’s an AWFUL thing to do. There is nothing worse to the people of Westeros than a Kinslayer, not even a rapist. It is the ultimate crime to commit and it shows your lack of understanding of this world if you think Rhaenyra would just do this. Even if you don’t like her, her character was described as someone that would NEVER.

Meanwhile, you know who went down in history for doing this? Not once but twice? And one of those was a child? You know who still fucking did and was willing to keep doing it until an entire side of their family was wiped out?

The Greens.

The difference between them and Team Black is that TG spent twenty years harboring hate for a woman and her kids who did not even give them a second thought. It’s almost laughable how unimportant they were to Rhaenyra until the day they killed her son. The day Aemond killed Luke and Aegon threw a feast to celebrate the worst crime imaginable to a Kingdom he was supposed to rule, is the day you should’ve realized how different and how much more deserving Rhaenyra Targaryen is compared to her monster brothers.

I do not fucking care that Alicent was young and dumb and manipulated once. The women who poisoned her own children, the woman who was willing to kill a fucking newborn and said I quote,

“I hope the whore dies in childbirth.” Was a grown ass adult and would not show an inch of mercy. Even show!Alicent would have no choice, because it was her idiot planning that put her psychopath of a son in the ultimate position of power so she couldn’t even stop it if she tried.

So tell me, what makes you think Helaena, Aemond, Aegon (who were all adults during the dance, mind you), Jaehaera, Maelor, and Jaehaerys deserve to live more than Jace, Luke, Joffrey, Baela, Rhaena, Aegon, Viserys, Visenya (possibly), or anyone that stood as a threat to Aegon’s reign?

Surely you can’t say it’s because Jaehaera, Maelor, and Jaehaerys are just children.

You root for the one Team whose succession will end up with them all dead, as canonically it did, instead of the woman that would’ve spared them. Book or show, there’s never any evidence she would harm them unlike the literal people you root for. There’s only one scenario where everyone lives and it’s when Rhaenyra Targaryen sit the throne. Because we’ve seen how well it turned out for those kids and everyone when she was usurped, so rooting for Team Green bc you want to ‘spare the children’ is a contradiction in itself.

Or, just say you’re a misogynistic asshole like we already know and be done with it.

#house of the dragon #hotd #rhaenyra targaryen #anti team green #hotd discussion #aegon ii targaryen #aemond targaryen #helaena targaryen #lucerys velaryon #jacaerys velaryon #alicent hightower #fire and blood

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