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[ID in ALT] I've made posts before about Talia/Dick co-parenting Damian moments (will never happen but let me dream) and this came to me in a vision. Took me ages to finish for some reason 😭 and then even longer to post
#dc comics#dc#damian wayne#dick grayson#talia al ghul#batfamily#dc robin#nightwing#anyway. yes im a self-indulgent ''dick as damians secret third parent'' truther#like i DO think it's way more complex and nuanced than the schmoopy affectionate fan portrayal of it#they're brothers they're father and son they're partners they're the dynamic duo except only in past tense etc etc#but consider! I'm not immune to schmoopy affection in fanworks. it compells me despite itself#anyway it's technically not that crazy when it comes to dick and damian. they hug! often! at least they did#it's not as big a leap to these types of scenarios#also talia ''somewhat absent for complex reasons on both her and damians part but very loving and loved by her son'' al ghul#you will always be famous to me#son of the demon origin...bwahhh#anyway. someone made a comic kind of like this/like a post i made abt this topic#but way funnier bc dick and talia starting trying to beat each other up#so go look at that as well#anyway. it's been a somewhat difficult few weeks so I'm. desperately trying to take it easy#i got some reading with me (first vol of kevin smiths GA run that i found second hand and jaimes BB run vol 2!)#so we'll see how far i get through those. considering there's demons in my head telling me to re-read things (LET ME OUT!!!)#when i finish GA and BB i do plan on rereading robin 2021. as a treat to myself#it's a run I've really warmed up to as time went on#I'm keeping up w/ the current b&r run even though it is. admittedly very slow w/ some weird dialogue#i read it for the damian content more than anything. also nikas back so that's neat :]#idk I have a feeling that after absolute power shakes out we might get some more creative team switch ups#so if anyone at dc is interested in taking over the reigns on b&r...that could be very neat#mine
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If I'm being honest, I actually think I would prefer to see Tommy NOT become the boyfriend. I really like the idea of the two of them dating a bit, and Tommy helping Buck to explore a little, but I think it would be much more interesting if Buck doesn't immediately jump into a more serious relationship with him. Allowing Buck to explore more casually as he starts to figure himself out just feels a little more meaningful here. He's always so quick to jump into relationships. I'd rather see him really take his time and let himself have some fun. And absolutely, Tommy can be a major part of that. But so much of the speculation around them feels like it frames him as the boyfriend, but I don't know that that's what Buck needs from him, to be honest.
#i'm a hypocrite i'm currently writing a boyfriend!tommy fic#and i know everyone's just having some fun with the spec and boyfriend!tommy could also be a lot of fun#but in terms of canon i think letting buck have a casual fling with a hot guy he's crushing on#(not like buck 1.0 levels but just a casual fling with someone he trusts)#would be a little more interesting than putting him immediately into a relationship#especially because i think a major part of his hamster wheel was always rushing into serious relationships before he was actually ready#and just because this one's with a man doesn't mean it would be good for him to continue that pattern#anyway#ignore me#911 spoilers#bucktommy#911 speculation
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I'm relistening to rqg and gave in to the impulse to redraw this three year-old piece of fanart
#rqg#rusty quill gaming#rqg sasha#sasha rackett#rqg grizzop#grizzop drik acht amsterdam#hello if my friend who is waiting for their commission sees this:#I am sorry. this was fully impulsive and a low-stakes way to kinda get back into drawing#because unfortunately I hit a block right when your commission came up in the queue#but let's consider this a way for me to warm up again#this is also an interesting comparison to me because my art style is currently at a point where I like that it's gotten more solid#but I feel like I'm over-rendering it and need to get some of that movement and simplicity back#I should get back into gesture sketching I think
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visiting an art con and leaving without a single piece of merch gave me more motivation to draw than anything for the past few months. i need people to know i'm insane about mahoyome. so i'm gonna make some pins. or acrylic charms. haven't decided yet. sweet lord i can't believe i finally picked up a pen!!!!!
#ok that's a little exaggeration. i bought one witch hat atelier charm with qifrey (agott ran out..)#but honestly speaking. going to a con and seeing ONLY genshin + dungeon meshi + frieren was a little disappointing#i understand that cons are expensive for artists#so they shouldn't risk and bring something that won't sell#i'm just jealous that i'm not interested in any currently popular anime and manga#literally suferring more than jesus himself#mahoutsukai no yome#mahoyome#the ancient magus' bride#the ancient magus bride#ancient magus bride#tamb#chise hatori#my art
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yes i'm rooting for m*leven breakup because byler is neat but mostly? i'm rooting for m*leven breakup for the sake of el and mike.
to me, their romance was always a puppy love born out of a combination of social pressures, naïve curiosity, and a lack of true understanding regarding intimacy and romantic love and what it really is. it was real in that they do truly, deeply care about each other and they are close friends, maybe even shared an attraction, but a maturing romance is so much more than that. they've grown up and out of being boyfriend/girlfriend, and that's okay! i think television/film needs to show more often that most of us don't have definite "soulmates" or first childhood loves that we spend our whole lives with. it doesn't mean these relationships meant nothing and didn't impact us, it just means they've run their course and that something else is in the cards, and this is part of life!
i've always felt el was at her best and most confident self when broken up with mike, discovering who she was and what she liked alongside another girl her age instead of just relying on mike for mentorship on how to live in the real world. she deserves more of an opportunity to find herself, her autonomy, and her independence, and to love who she is, and she's made it clear she's felt insecure in the relationship with mike because she isn't being loved and understood the way she wants, needs, and deserves from someone who is her partner.
also, it's okay if mike doesn't love her in "the way he should". he is not obligated to love her romantically and stay in a relationship with her just because she's a girl, because she "needed someone", or because he cares about her a lot. he shouldn't be pressured into a romance if it's not truly coming from his heart. he deserves freedom to find out and honour who he is, too, instead of just staying in his non-functional first relationship — one he got into as a child, essentially — and defining himself that way because it's what's expected when a boy and a girl are close. he loves her in some way, yes, but it's okay if he doesn't feel comfortable or secure being her boyfriend anymore, for whatever reason that is. he's felt insecure too, and that's valid and it matters.
they are their own people and are steadily growing and changing every day. they need time to figure out who those people are, and it's become clear (at least in my opinion) that those people aren't meant to be a couple at this stage.
they deserve freedom. they deserve to grow up and be authentic to themselves and not feel like they need to lie for the sake of a relationship. they deserve to move on from this version of their relationship that isn't making them happy and rekindle the best part of their bond: their strong, beautiful friendship. they don't have to be a couple if it doesn't make them stronger and better and happier people.
i think it would be healthy and wonderful for a show, especially one consumed frequently by young adults, to show a relationship starting, progressing, and ending on good terms in this way. sometimes things don't work out, and that is okay.
#eve text#elmike#stranger things#byler#only tagging byler because i feel like yall will like this take lol#tagging tagging tagging WHAT ARE EVERYONE ELSE'S THOUGHTS#god i can't believe i'm making a post about stranger things. this feels like poking a bear#i'm not particularly anti m*leven but like... they'd have to do something pretty special at this point for me to feel like it's viable#i'm seeing the bts of s5 and it's got me Having Thoughts#elmike friendship is something i am so passionate about#even before i ever liked byler (didn't ship at all until s4 even though i knew it was a thing before) i've felt this way about elmike#i always believed they were close friends at heart and needed to break up#the romance part of them felt very distinctly young and very much “he was a boy she was a girl” to me#and it hasn't deepened into anything more mature and i don't see how it could based on the current state of the writing...#the fact that lumax exists — a young relationship that is actively maturing and is healthy — makes that clear to me#and the “love confession” in s4 and how disingenuous and miserable it felt was just the nail in the coffin#also the fact that will (who is IN LOVE with mike) was instrumental in making it happen? ... uh... okay... interesting choice…#fucked up and reductive if they make it another queer unrequited love sacrifice for the sake of pushing the heterosexual agenda YUCK#so i really hope the speculation about a m*leven breakup is real!! i think it just makes sense for their characters but who knows#i don't believe in the notion of love at first sight or one true love and i think the writers don't too???#love to me is an accumulation of experiences and we inevitably choose it at some point rather than fall into it... but idk#tv is so fixated on keeping couples together... sometimes it's just not reality guys especially with young people... LET IT GO...#like i said though i'm not 100% sold that they're going to give up their “golden couple” LMAO#stranger things hasn't historically subverted too many tropes if i'm being honest#anyway i seriously need this season to come out quickly... i'm so bored and getting my master's is crushing my soul#i need frivolity#ALSO btw i won't respond to hateful messages about this so please don't bother. it's not that serious. this is a netflix show
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First of all, surprise! More Person of Interest! Wow!
Second, my brain would not let go of trying to form a PoI x Fallout AU, and for a while I didn't think I could make it work (ie: how do you get a franchise dependent on stuff like the internet and phone booths to work in one with neither), until I had an actual shower thought about it being specifically a Fallout 4 AU!
Basically it's just Fallout-y versions of the PoI main cast, with Fallout-y versions of their backstories, and following a Fallout-y version of the show's plot, but the plot of Fallout 4 is also happening at the same time with John filling the role of the Sole Survivor (except Harold got him out of Vault 111 instead of Father, and John isn't Shaun's dad lol). Oh and the Institute's surveillance of the Commonwealth is provided by the Machine, and yet Finch has ensured they don't have full access so he can use it the way he wants to: to help improve the lives of the people of the Wasteland!
#i didn't draw them but i'm feeling fusco being a member of diamond city security and carter being an assistant detective to valentine!#i've got a doc going with what i have for this au that i might end up sharing if i work more on it/this au takes over my life adjfkajsdhfkj#currently it's mostly a rewrite of harold's backstory to make it work better within the post-war fallout universe#also my rewatch of poi is going well i am on season 3 now!!#been watching it in between obsessively replaying fallout 4 again akdshfjhadskfj#explains the au huh#person of interest x fallout au#person of interest#fallout#fallout 4#john reese#harold finch#sameen shaw#root#root x shaw#rinch#my art
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The two sides to my ongoing thought of "Volnutt what are you??". I doodled this a long while back to better clarify it on paper.
Don't worry it's not your job to overthink it, it's mine (jokingly or otherwise) and I'm certainly going to singe my brain in the process.
#is this a silly post or more serious? yes.#unfortunately you know I will find a way to take a light-hearted thought and make it worse#honestly though I really think the half-mystery of volnutt/trigger is an interesting subject to work with#so will I show more of me playing with that?#yeah likely#it'll be as scattered as volnutt's memory currently I'm sure#doodle-daas#megaman legends#rockman dash#rock volnutt
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couple of sketches of my version of what a young adult Omega might look like ✨
#star wars#the bad batch#Omega#tbb#i want to draw adult Omega and adult Gungi as a team#but I'm currently back to having a job and no time!#before I started this job I actually prepared four more full Star Wars illustrations this time focused on the clones during the war#considered posting the sketches but idk- they're coloured and everything#there might be less interest to see them all polished if I post the sketches..#idk when i'll have time to work on them tho#sketchndoodles
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hopping up on my special interest soap box to say: i think we as a fandom should discuss the satire in danganronpa V3 more.
idk if it is just me but i have always viewed this game as a satire, if only just because of the ending. it exagerrates the formula set up by the previous games to criticize the current state of media and media consumption. i know a lot of people in the fandom don't like V3, and i think that is by design. it is ridiculous, it is over the top, the ending is a punch to the face, but it's all on purpose. you're supposed to be uncomfortable because it is a satire. (of course you don't have to like the game, i just think it is intentionally like that)
the whole theme of fiction vs reality is put in there intentionally to make fun of the fandomization of danganronpa, as well as to poke at game studios and companies that put out media in general. tsumugi, in my interpretation, is representative of danganronpa fans (hence why she's the ultimate cosplayer). she is the mastermind. you aren't supposed to like her. her insistence on the idea that "fiction doesn't affect reality" is a direct criticism of that exact idea in real life fandom. the idea that this is the "53rd" danganronpa is directly making fun of other pieces of media "jumping the shark" because fans insist upon it. this is not to say you can't like tsumugi, i think you absolutely can, i just think her character represents some key ideas relating to the satire of the game.
this is why everything in the game is SO over the top. kirumi being the prime minister, korekiyo both having DID AND being a serial killer in a reference to the first game, EVERYONE'S over the top backstories (gonta and keebo come to mind), it's all acting as an exaggeration of common tropes (albeit highly problematic in several areas, not trying to excuse those aspects by any means).
and then there's kaede. they set her up as a strong female protagonist, only to kill her chapter 1 to be replaced by a male protag. on paper this is very misogynistic, but in the context of satire it is an exaggeration of the danganronpa formula. of course we couldn't have a female protag in a main line game, of course it would have to be a man. shuichi having a secret ahoge only adds to this; it's making fun of the trope. the best part is that i truly do love both of these characters, and their role in the satire doesn't diminish the excellent writing that went into them and the story.
this entirely shapes how i view this game. it manages to tell an incredibly compelling story with very complex characters while making fun of itself at the same time (as a good satire should). i know a lot of people have said they feel like the writers of v3 must have hated danganronpa, and while i see exactly what they mean i don't think that's necessarily true. i think it was an intentional choice as a work of satire.
i can see an intense love behind the writing of this game. the characters are rich and the story is compelling. the ending just serves to send home the point they wanted to make. i think it adds a really beautiful perspective to the danganronpa series as a whole.
#hope this rant makes sense. i am so crazy about this game.#drv3#danganronpa v3#danganronpa v3 killing harmony#danganronpa#xe speaks!#look i really don't know if this is a common interpretation#and i'm not saying it's the only way to interpret it#but this is my current special interest and i must speak my truth#i would like to add that i am from the US and my perspective on this subject is likely unintentionally very western#and i'm sure i am missing cultural context#but i am trying to come at this from a literary analysis perspective#heart emoji <3#i could also talk about the treatment of queer characters but i fear i would need a lot more textual evidence so i will hold out#scared to post this y'all better be nice to me or i'll cry
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Okay, maybe this is just me, but the fucking whiplash from the way Sandra Lynn and Jawbone are with Adaine over Fig or Kristen is so crazy to me. It's gotten to such a point that Emily called it out in this last episode. Like, you're telling me that Sandra Lynn can acknowledge that the bad kids have helped raise each other and fulfill emotional needs their parents haven't, but can't put together that there might be a fucking reason Fig is protecting Kristen and Adaine created a simulacrum? Jawbone, as both a guardian and counselor, just let it go that a highly competent rouge capable of finding the rouge teacher straight up admitted (1) she wanted to murder Kristen and (2) she is upset at Fig for keeping her from getting close? All this after years of being obsessed with the bad kids?
Meanwhile, they see Adaine as this competent, low-maintenance, emotionally mature adult instead of recognizing that she was taught from an early age that adults would not meet her emotional needs?
#dimension 20#d20#fantasy high junior year#fhjy spoilers#adaine abernant#kristen applebees#fig faeth#look i'm really glad that brennan has continued to make these parents and the bad kids' different relationships complicated#it makes the story so much more interesting and relatable and nuanced#but as an Adaine type who had a full on mental breakdown and a bad relationship with her father they aren’t helping her#by pushing the others to the side and making her “the responsible one” they're just parentifying her more#jawbone and sandra lynn are amazing characters and I'm in no way shitting on this storyline but I'm going to rain down hell#pull your heads out of your asses!!!#also if the reason sklonda doesn't like kristen is because the woman currently raising and housing her is talking shit about her#im gonna lose it
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I don't know if you have talked about it or not, but how do you view sufin?
I do like SuFin as a pairing, but I haven't really done a deep dig into their history together to really give a good analysis of their relationship. I do prefer the ship with some underlying tension and complicated history they are very much aware of and acknowledge, but choose to look past. They have both good and bad days, and they both know this. Still, they very much care about each other, though neither of them are great at showing it.
#hetalia#sufin#aph finland#aph sweden#hws finland#hws sweden#thanks for the ask!! 🥰#sufin has never been interesting enough for me to look into fics for it#but I think I'd enjoy it more if their relationship was more complicated in the fics I've read that included it#idk though - it's been yeeeears since I've read hetalia fics about the nordics so#I'm not up to date with the current nordic!talia trends in fics so I might be completely wrong here
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His Ears... Patreon | Ko-fi
#Tuvok#they got a lil bigger <3#I feel like my art hasn't been as interesting lately :/ but I'm currently struggling with bouts of intense depression#and random body aches - so thank you for your patience and support!#Also I know they make Tuvok a captain but that will never ever be canon to me (same with Seven)#To me? He's some kind of instructor#I like the thought of Janeway being an admiral - Tuvok's an instructor and Chakotay is.....off. doing his own thing.#I can see him doing a lot of things. Liiike...helping build houses after the war#bee doodles#voy#need to draw more gilf tuvok - that will fix me#IMPORTANT: All 3 of them are disatisfied and varying levels of miserable in their lives/careers after Voyager#par for the voy crew course v_v#st voyager
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If you go around declaring that you need to shame anyone that uses AI, I'm going to need to see you direct that same energy at anyone who's not vegan
#For the record I'm not vegan I just think the hypocrisy is really interesting here#One of these industries is currently far far more damaging to the environment. And it's not AI!
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one fairysona with a pigeon friend for @pfandghoul!
commission info here
bonus thumbnails because they're cute:
#commission#pfandghoul#this one also gets a closeup because I'm very happy with it#I have also somehow become the pigeon guy and tbh I am not complaining#I just think it's very funny#note on the current status of my commissions:#my carrd says I'm on a semi hiatus until the start of next year#which is. kind of true#for those of you who don't follow my personal blog. my employer went bankrupt and I am now finding myself unemployed#so whether or not I can take on more commissions in the foreseeable future depends on how my job search goes#if you are interested in a commission I still invite you to send an order through my form!#I just also ask for patience and understanding in case I have to say no#it will kind of depend on how much energy I expect it to take and whether or not I can bring that energy at that time#no harm in asking though :]#big thanks to everyone who has commissioned me so far <3
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nothing ever excites me more than a spontaneous genshin, or more particularly, mondstadt discovery. i sat diluc upon the barbatos statue as a nice spot to go afk on without being interrupted by repetitive idle animations and voicelines (sorry diluc, this is nothing personal). my volume was turned up more than regularly by accident, and my in-game music was off despite how much i like the original game soundtrack. aNYHOW- i was about to go afk when i heard some strange noises that i didn't recall hearing in mondt before. it made me pause and turn my volume up even more. in the video above, it's kind of hard to discern the brief sounds over the noise of the wind up on the statue and in mondstadt in general, but when the wind dies down a little, you can distinctly hear voices of people, and what shocked me the most – neighs of horses. i have no clue whether it is just me discovering this only now, after 4 years of playing this godforsaken game and clearly not having paid enough attention to mondstadt's sfx before, but i still felt the need to share this terribly interesting tidbit in case there's other clueless mondstadt enthusiasts like me.
#what makes me so curious about these sfx is my inability to discern the meaning behind them#the sounds in the clip can only be heard during the night‚ which inserts various questions into my head#first and foremost‚ the sounds obviously confirm the existence of horses in mondstadt. the horses that AREN'T THERE in the current timeline#the horses that PHYSICALLY have no space for them within the city‚ but that's a problem of a different kind that i want to touch upon later#what makes their situation even more curious is that they're only heard during the night‚ with no trace of them during the day#so‚ my question is – surely they wouldn't add this specific sound if they didn't plan on introducing the horses in-game at some point?#even if there was no mentions of horses in genshin whatsoever‚ except in the manga which is set prior to the game's events#aka the timeline before the beginning or during the early stages of varka's expedition considering seamus's presence in mondstadt#and if that is so‚ is the peculiar activity of horses only at night a result of them being out of the city alongside the kof during the day#next curious thing to me are the voices and shouts‚ most likely in chinese‚ that i cannot discern and that i found nothing about online yet#however‚ in my opinion‚ the shouts seem too loud for the peaceful‚ post-stormterror crisis atmosphere of mondstadt#most of the words sound as if they're spoken through a megaphone‚ repeatedly‚ like call-outs to something or somebody#and not at all like shouts of people‚ regular citizens‚ from within their homes‚ or those of random drunkards on the streets at night#during daytime‚ the chatter is more coherent and distinctly chinese‚ words they clearly didn't bother translating to other voice-overs#another random and interesting sound is of something akin to a bell chiming‚ and i don't mean the big church bell tolling like in the clip#i am eager for feedback on this‚ for any sort of help or translation to sate my curiosity#and i'm also very much open to ideas or even random interpretations as i am overflowing with them‚ too#mondstadt#old mondstadt#genshin impact#genshin brainrot#genshin headcanon#genshin ost#genshin help#wilhelminaesque
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wait, is there a dovi/jorge feud???? i didn't know this!! also thank you so much for all you do for this community ❤️
not the only ask I've gotten about this and... look, rather than doing a proper write up that would take forever, I'm just gonna give my top ten fun... facts? bits of trivia. tidbits related to the two of them. quite long tidbits, on second glance. the highlight reel, if you will
(1) that time andrea dovizioso made 14 year old jorge lorenzo cry
the two of them already raced each other before the start of their grand prix careers, competing for the first time in 2001 in the cev when dovi was around 15 and jorge around 14. in riveras tobia's biography, here's jorge talking about their first fight:
I led the way at the start and Dovizioso and I escaped. It was our first head-to-head encounter, the first time we raced each other. My dad had heard that Dovi was a really clever rider and he warned me before the race. But just like in 1998 at Jerez, with Olive, I acted like a dummy and pushed for the whole race. I kept looking behind me to see the bastard still there! It was impossible to shake him off, he was watching me the whole race until the last lap. Three comers from the end I could hear his engine getting closer and I saw his shadow to my left, but he didn't come past. I thought to myself "This guy is going to try something in a second!" I decided I had to on a tighter line and close the door. Sure enough, Dovi went wider through that comer and then dived up the inside. I didn't close the door in time and tried to get in his slipstream, desperately hoping I could get him the next corner, but I ran wide and he won. I came back in tears, I didn't even want to go to the podium, I felt so cheated. I'd been on the limit for the whole race and I felt like I deserved the win more than he did.
so that's a nice and positive start! there's something charming about how even fifteen year old dovi was an absolute menace on last laps
also about that race:
'Jorge beat Dovi in Braga but in the previous race at Most, what a tantrum!' recalls Juanito, laughing. 'He didn't even want to go to the podium, he was crying like a baby! I can still see Dani (Antatriain) talking to him, trying to convince him. In the end he went but he didn't want to look at anybody.'
(2) the photo finish
in 2004, they were rivals in 125cc - a year in which dovi claimed the title and jorge was p4 in the standings. in the very first grand prix ever at the lusail circuit (pretty eventful weekend, you have to say), jorge and dovi crossed the line at the exact same moment
(3) dovi's top three favourite career win
dovi and jorge progressed through the categories at the exact same rate, and after their 125cc rivalry they continued fighting in 250cc. they were title rivals in both 2006 and 2007, with jorge's aprilia winning out both times against dovi's underpowered honda. (the general pattern was that dovi clawed back a bunch of points from jorge in the wet - jorge, with perhaps the exception of a few years in the premier class until around 2013, has never been much of a wet weather racers, while it's always been one of dovi's strongest traits.) for dovi's 300th career start in 2019, he was asked what his top three wins were - and one of his picks was from way back when in 2007
I'd recommend the race! which... well, I did in the race rec post - and I can only reiterate that these two kids do not acknowledge each other, not good vibes at all
(4) jorge's thoughts on young dovi from 2008
Jorge has a lot of respect for Andrea Dovizioso and feels that his two 250cc world titles have even more prestige because he had to beat the Italian to win them. 'You wouldn't label Dovizioso as fast, particularly, but he's much faster than he looks. He doesn't set many pole positions but he is always up front in a race, fighting to win. He is very intelligent and you can't trust him an inch on the last lap. He has been faithful to Honda, he has great belief in them. His negative side is that he tends to play the victim too much. He'll say that if his bike had a better engine or if it was a bit faster he would win. He's even said that if he was on the same bike as me he'd give me a hiding. I think he looks for excuses too often sometimes, but as a rider and a person I don't have a bad word to say about him.'
some dovi traits read as very familiar, from how he's a better racer than qualifier to the intelligence to the last lap prowess. as for jorge saying dovi plays victim too much? well
also this:
ER: Don't you think that Dovizioso wanted to be World Champion too in 2006 and 2007? Don't you think he gave everything to achieve it? JL: He will think he gave his maximum but he will be lying to himself because nobody does that. Nobody gets close to their maximum, not even me. He will think that he didn't win because he was riding a Honda. There are very few sportsmen who will say, I deserve what happened to me and there are no excuses. I didn't know how to do any better and I've done things wrong.' That is the only way to be the best, the only way. People who make excuses don't get to the top. I know riders who haven't made it for just that reason.
plus ça change
(5) jorge's thoughts on young dovi from 2018
when they were doing their thing as ducati teammates (bickering), here is one of the things jorge said about dovi:
dovi's been trying to undermine jorge's morale his WHOLE career... even when they were but teenagers... love it when you can really tell someone's been sitting on something for over a decade
(6) "also lorenzo is not my friend"
both of them moved up to motogp in 2008, jorge with factory yamaha and dovi with satellite honda. dovi had a very strong rookie season and finished in p5, only sixteen points behind jorge in p4 (who after a promising first few races had spent a lot of time that season crashing). after that, their fortunes diverged. dovi did not have a particularly happy time in the factory honda team and needed to do some shrewd negotiating to be retained by them for 2011 in that three-man squad, while jorge of course won the championship in 2010
here's a deep cut from 2011, a season where much of the excitement and drama was caused by marco simoncelli alone. jorge had exchanged tense words with sic in estoril, one race before simoncelli was responsible for a crash where dani broke his collarbone. the crash and sic's subsequent penalty meant that the three-way fight between jorge, dovi and valentino became one for the podium, with dovi and valentino eventually grabbing the two remaining spots behind casey. but during the race, jorge had executed a... questionable manoeuvre on dovi, one that did have some similarities to the sic/dani incident. given jorge's strong previous comments on racing standards, unsurprisingly the journalists pounced on this incident in the post-race presser and ask the podium sitters about it. here is the clip:
in this clip, dovi essentially says it was a dangerous move from jorge, but he wasn't sure what jorge's intent had been and he needs to watch the footage again. valentino (who had been the most outspokenly critical of sic of the three of them earlier in the presser) takes the opportunity presented to him to have a bit of a potshot at jorge. he says that dovi doesn't have the best relationship with sic but jorge had done something pretty similar in the race... at which point dovi goes "also lorenzo is not my friend"
which, you know. not exactly a major incident, but I find it very charming dovi felt the need to clarify that, actually, he doesn't like either of them. valentino also adds that by jorge's own standards, surely he too should have gotten a penalty. not exactly a meeting of jorge's biggest fans hm
(7) mapping eight-gate
well I can't leave it out, can I
so in 2017 jorge switches from yamaha to ducati and does not have a great time of it. a lot of weekends, he's just too slow, other times he shoots to the front of a race at the start (typically not great news for the rest of the field in his yamaha days) and then chews up his tyres before gradually dropping like a stone back through the field. at some point that year it became a bit of a running gag - especially when you saw he was the only big name to be picking a soft tyre and just went... buddy we ALL know how this is gonna end....
while this was happening, his teammate dovi was for the first time in his premier class career in championship contention. an extremely close title fight throughout the year with five protagonists until pretty late in the season, it eventually went to a title decider in valencia between dovi and marc. you know, the kind of year where every point counts. the race where marc put a bit of daylight between himself and dovi was phillip island, with marc winning a great dogfight out front while dovi had a bit of a horror show of a weekend. this meant that a lot would have to go right for dovi to have a chance of still winning the title... and sepang was already a match point race for marc
ducati had not won a championship since their 2007 title, courtesy of one casey stoner. after that year, their bike became steadily less competitive every season, reaching a nadir around the 2011-13-ish period. so by the time 2017 rolled around, they wanted this so so badly - even if they wouldn't have expected dovi to lead the charge. dovi had only narrowly beaten out iannone in the 'who's going to be fired for our shiny new lorenzo hire' contest of 2016, and really it was supposed to be jorge who was carrying ducati's dreams on his shoulders. but, never mind, they were throwing everything behind dovi now... no stone left unturned
which brings us, of course, to the subject of team orders. this discourse really took off at the penultimate race of the season at sepang, but was already brewing before that - and in phillip island, satellite ducati rider redding had been told early in the race to let dovi past
here from marc at sepang:
dovi had been in great form all weekend at sepang - and with his wet weather prowess being what it was, really there shouldn't have been any need for team orders at all. but he got a sluggish start, and the race unfolded from there... until eventually jorge was in first, dovi was in second and marc in fourth. in those positions, marc would have clinched the title there
and then, jorge got a message on his dashboard. suggested mapping: mapping 8. pit boards and dashboards and all sorts of boards will feature various codes during races, most of them completely innocuous - but of course they are a healthy source of all sorts of conspiracies. the timing of this one was certainly... notable, and speculation immediately started about how it might be a way of telling jorge that he should swap positions with dovi
jorge didn't end up letting dovi pass - it is questionable whether he really would have done so with what would have been his first ducati win on the line. in the end, he made a mistake that let dovi through so that dovi claimed the win anyway, keeping himself in mathematical contention in valencia. and jorge did say afterwards he was keeping dovi's title hopes in mind, kind of
jorge also said he hadn't gotten any message indicating team orders, and of course nobody at ducati confirmed that mapping eight did have anything to do with team orders
for what it's worth, this is what dovi said about their relationship at this stage:
lovely! let's see what the vibes are like a few months later
anyway, onto valencia. this race was pretty boring despite being a title decider, but the jorge/dovi bits were just unequivocally the weekend's most enjoyable aspect and rather nicely spiced up the whole thing. dovi's chances were always slim going in, given he'd have to win the race and marc would have to barely get any points at all... but still, you never know, right? marc could always crash (narrator: he did almost crash). jorge plays coy early in the weekend about the whole 'helping dovi out thing', and basically just started putting in place...? ... very specific conditions...? under which he'd help:
so during the actual race, dovi got stuck behind jorge in p5, with marc ahead of both of them. valencia is traditionally not a fantastic track to overtake at... so even if dovi had been faster, it's not like he'd have an easy time clearing jorge and cracking on. but they were beginning to drift further away from dani in p3 as ducati watched on, increasingly unamused by what was happening - and the tv cameras were of course kind enough to repeatedly show the ducati box looking deeply unamused. again, they went for the good old mapping eight message, which, hey, that could mean anything! they sure did keep showing it to jorge though, almost like he wasn't paying attention to it
eventually, they abandon all subtlety and go for a pit board message that does just straight-up tell jorge to swap positions. jorge kept ignoring the messages, lap after lap, and he never ended up letting dovi past. eventually they both crashed and marc claimed the title with a p3 finish, so it wouldn't have mattered anyway, but... still. the feeling was that this might things rather awkward inside of ducati
publicly, ducati was extremely keen to smooth over the whole controversy, saying they totally weren't mad at jorge blatantly ignoring team orders. jorge had, after all, explained to them (and the media, repeatedly) that he had totally been intending to help dovi by dragging him closer to dani
Giving his take on events, Lorenzo acknowledged that he ignored Ducati’s instruction because he felt Dovizioso’s chances would be boosted by having him directly ahead. “Even looking at this [dashboard] suggestion, I keep pushing until the end, because I knew it was the best thing for me, for Ducati and for Dovi,” said Lorenzo. “I helped him to improve his pace by one or two tenths, to be as close as possible to the first group. My intention was, and it was the case, that we arrive at the first group. If he had the option to win, I would have gone wide and let him pass. But unfortunately it was not like that. Maybe in some corners Dovi was close and I slow down a little bit his pace, but in general terms, having my wheel in front of him made him improve slightly his pace. I helped him stayed closer to the front group. “I knew Dovi was struggling, I knew his pace during all the weekend, and I knew he was making the best pace of the weekend just in the race. It was [because of the] help from my wheel. I’m happy because I was not wrong. If I was wrong and slowing him, I would be very sorry. But it’s not like that, my feeling was true.”
which, you know. is it really that easy to tell how much faster you are than someone who's sitting on your rear tyre? who's to say. dovi did certainly seem rather keen to get past
anyhow, of course there were plenty of fun dramatics post-race:
'our rider ignored team suggestions not team orders' is a great line, fairs. there's plenty more of this from ducati, some excellent spin doctoring - and dovi was extremely magnanimous about what had happened:
the whole thing was pretty undignified from all non-dovi parties, but it was also very funny so who's to say if it was bad or not
(8) runner-up-gate
let's check in on them in 2018, the second and ultimately last year in which they were teammates. remember that 'undermining morale' quote from above? those are from early 2018, after dovi says he wouldn't be surprised to see jorge elsewhere the following season. so, once jorge has complained that dovi had been trying to put him down his entire career, comes this:
so that's something. jorge, dovi and dani have a three-in-one crash in jerez, after which some fingers are pointed but it all remains fairly civil, and a bit later dovi says that jorge's approach doesn't work at ducati:
by the summer break, jorge's results had gotten better, but it was already too late to save the relationship with ducati and they parted ways. anyway, here's dovi and jorge having another go at it:
And while a rough patch for Dovizioso coupled with breakthrough back-to-back wins for Lorenzo in Mugello and Barcelona have now left the pair just three points apart in the standings, Dovizioso refused to back down from his claim when speaking to Spanish sports daily Marca ahead of the upcoming Brno race. “He’s won two races,” Dovizioso said. “Winning two races does not solve the problem of a year and a half. Lorenzo was not signed to win two races. Therefore I do not change my mind.” When the comments were put to Lorenzo, the three-time champion offered an ardent retort, stating that Dovizioso's rhetoric was proof of the claim he'd made back in April. “I'm a bit fed up with this situation, mainly because when I had trouble and he was winning, I was down there applauding,” Lorenzo told Spanish broadcaster Movistar. “What I said in Argentina - and the comments caused a big surprise - you can see that I was right. “He tried to undermine me, or downplay what I achieve or just attack me. As you can see, I wasn't lying. He's still doing it and now he says my method is not good, according to him.” Lorenzo intimated that Dovizioso was in no position to criticise him, as the Italian could do no better than runner-up to Marc Marquez in a 'perfect' 2017 season. He said: “I think my method has not worked too bad in my career. I've won three MotoGP titles and have 46 wins.” “In my second year in Ducati I'm usually faster than him, but maybe I should look at his method closer if in his best season, with everything going perfectly, he was second. Otherwise he's fourth or seventh usually. I'd tell him to leave me to go my way and to focus on his own and everything will be better, because when you have an angry Lorenzo it's usually worse for you.”
fair to say that by this point the pretence at civility has mostly been dropped. I'm rather fond of the "lorenzo was not signed to win two races" line, though "when you have an angry lorenzo it's usually worse for you" is also really strong stuff. dovi tries to restore a little bit of peace:
Responding in turn to Lorenzo's tirade, Dovizioso sought to play down the conflict. “Jorge has his ideas and I think they are based on particular things. I don't think like him, but it's not a problem,” he told Movistar. “Everybody creates their own ideas based on what they see and how they live. “I don't think he has everything clear in his head about what's happened, but we continue the relationship that we started last year with respect, there's no particular problem. If he thinks this way, that's his problem."
so basically the classic 'idk what he's on about but it's not my problem' approach to attempting to defuse feuds
(9) twitter-gate
there's a few more on-track battles where it's nicely obvious how badly they want to beat each other, with jorge beating marc just ahead of dovi in austria and then dovi beating jorge in brno. jorge's season is increasingly derailed by injuries, which sets the stage for their next big spat:
The row was sparked by Dovizioso's comments to Sky Italia after qualifying at Sepang on Saturday, as he was asked what he thought of Lorenzo having to pull out of the Malaysian GP weekend with injury. "I don't know the details, I don't want to get into this, it's a bit of a strange situation," said Dovizioso."It happens often in Ducati or to certain riders, but I don't understand the details and I don't want to get into it and give my opinion." When it was put to him he was offering 'cryptic words', he added: "I leave things there, it's not my problem."
pretty vague, yeah. but anyway, I'm sure jorge had a proportionate response to this
Dovizioso's comments prompted a series of irate posts from Lorenzo on Twitter, with his first reaction being "Thank you very much @AndreaDovizioso! You are a real gentleman!". In his next post, he went on to call Dovizioso "an exemplary teammate", adding: "You applaud him under the podium when he wins and then... (That's right, he does not give his opinion, it's not his problem)." After that, Lorenzo labelled Dovizioso "envious" and described him as "a world champion... in 125cc."
the podium thing really bothered him, don't you think. their ducati in-fighting follows that general pattern where dovi says something... a little shady, a little ambiguous, where his intentions aren't entirely obvious... at which point jorge goes all in at fighting back and has a go at dovi - often not as much for what dovi is actually saying, but what jorge thinks dovi is implying. which is based on his understanding of dovi, the image of dovi he's built up in his head over the years, so that he is... predisposed to think ill of the intentions of the 'intelligent' dovi who always knows exactly what he's saying
again, dovi tried to downplay the argument, while simultaneously not exhibiting much patience for jorge's stance:
After the Malaysian GP, Dovizioso was asked about Lorenzo's responses to his comments, and the Italian accused his teammate of reading too much into headlines. He said: “Why should I talk to Lorenzo? I do not waste time on these things. He makes the usual mistake of giving too much importance to what is written, even without the context. "I have not pointed my finger at anyone and I have no problem with Jorge."
if I were ducati, I probably would've let the whole thing blow over given jorge was off soon anyway. but they decided the whole thing was so bad they had to organise a peace summit
Asked about the situation, Ducati sporting director Paolo Ciabatti admitted to Motorsport.com that the Bologna marque has already planned to sit its two riders on Tuesday in Milan to make it clear what its priorities are. Ciabatti said: “It is clear that the interests of Ducati come before personal problems between riders. On Tuesday we will be together in Milan, for the EICMA [motorcycle show] and we have in mind to spend half an hour to sit and talk to Jorge and Andrea. "We want to avoid similar things to what happened last weekend. "I understand that these kinds of situations can happen. Sometimes riders get nervous during a Grand Prix weekend and on a rainy day, with tricky conditions, sometimes they say things they shouldn’t have said."
god knows how that turned out
(10) wow, you guys aren't gonna let this go, huh
late 2020 and jorge's career is already over, while dovi's looks like it will be... paused, at the very least. which is always a good time to check in with riders on how they feel about their rivals - if they're still being nasty you know that shit was personal. from december:
some quality petty material here. "I can't understand his somewhat peculiar mind" vs "he was envious of me since 250cc, but I wanted to give our relationship a chance". note too jorge talking again about how generous he had been in the face of dovi's 2017 successes, and how he feels like this was not reciprocated at all. jorge's complaints don't stop there:
merry christmas!
not the only rider jorge has beefed with post-retirement, but compare and contrast with how he really hasn't been doing any of that with some of his biggest career rivals. valentino, marc, dani - sure, he still talks about the controversies he's had with them pretty regularly (to put it lightly), and he's hardly free of complaints... but mostly it's a distinctly nostalgic tone he's adopting with these guys. admittedly, it helps that none of those three have gone out of their way to say anything particularly inflammatory about jorge. still, the absolute lack of any sort of rapprochement with dovi of all people is pretty funny
bonus: that time when jorge skittled all of marc's rivals
you know how in catalunya 2019, jorge took out like? all of marc's major rivals in that era including himself in one go? with half a decade of hindsight, this was kind of hilarious, and it did also feature jorge having to eat a hell of a lot of humble pie and go to the three other blokes to apologise. anyway I have a lovingly assembled set of screenshots of all three of them emoting in their boxes after the incident, all suffering some form of an existential crisis. here is dovi contemplating the bleak realities of our brief lives on this planet:
truly one of the world's least enthusiastic waves
bonus 2: another one for old time's sake
already posted this elsewhere, but this from late 2023 made me laugh
"jorge came to ducati and thought he was going to beat everything, but in the end he didn't" uh huh
#also thank you!! that's really nice#valentino is absolutely SHAMELESS in that clip i'm crying... saw some low hanging fruit and took a chainsaw to the entire tree#laughs a bit TOO much at that dovi line. a little restraint I beg#andrea dovizioso#brr brr#//#ad4#morale tag#batsplat responds#very lazy post sorry but i just wanted to do something fast... i do think they're more interesting than just a list of drama#real lack of mutual respect... how little they get each other... also jorge's side of that 250cc rivalry is sooooo...#currently still cooking up that jorge/valentino post which means i'm obviously revisiting my jorge primary sources#and the way valentino and dovi get described in particular is... hm how to describe this... this isn't just a sports thing but -#- especially in sports and especially at juniors level you come across a lot of people who act like they're constantly on camera#jorge at that age has extreme sports film syndrome. his entire team also has sports film syndrome. the author has sports film syndrome#they're constantly trying to write character arcs for him. 'like a superhero after his darkest hour' that kinda thing#and that also means other riders sometimes get this treatment where you're a bit? this doesn't feel... completely in touch with reality#dovi's The First Rival who's there to help jorge grow... it's quite tricky to explain because you can't point to anything SPECIFIC#it's just tones and vibes really lmao#anyway my point is I do have Takes on this dynamic but for now. here is just a random assortment of stuff with a lil bit of context#I do love it when you have a kind of primary text for these riders. they're all COMPLETELY different#all with quite funny editorial choices that sometimes tell you as much about the blokes as the actual text itself#fwiw the jorge one was the one where i had the most moments of 'hm i'm not sure it happened quite like that but continue'
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