#church meta

[dandelionjack]

> new series release (space babies) coincided with the uk seeing the northern lights for the first time in years

> the devil’s chord coincided with paul mccartney’s long-missing hofner bass guitar being found, by a doctor who fan no less

> boom coincided with an actual meteor crash

> 73 yards is coinciding with a rise in bizarre supposedly-occult animal sacrifice rituals in britain (the folk horror part) and rishi sunak finally calling a general election (the political drama part)

> hypothesis: russell t davies has somehow managed to tune in to the universe’s divine frequency ??

> conclusion: messing with the forces of fate, cause&effect and coincidence, even if it’s for the pop culture franchise you’re showrunning, actually turns it into an egregore, but only if it’s been going for long enough (sixty fucking years to the dot) and watched by enough people (tens of millions). which it has

> ergo, postscriptum: television magick is real and is being unintentionally performed by the creators + audience of the world’s silliest science fiction show

> /jk. unless?

[calwasntfound]

my friend has been trying to get me to watch rvb for almost ten years. you'll never guess who finally caved

[saucerfulofsins]

I love the juice bar scene as much as the next person. I especially love the juice bar scene in conjunction with the confession.

And yeah, the "I'm straight" is chekov's gun, and the chemistry between Eddie and father Brian too. I love the meta/spec/headcanons!

That's not what I want to talk about. Instead, I want to talk about how sensitive Father Brian has been to Eddie's needs. He offered Bobby help in the church, face to face, and that worked for Bobby because he's a religious man. Eddie went to confession, and got his grievances aired, but -

we know Eddie's relationship with the church and religion is more complex than Bobby's. It doesn't work.

And then Father Brian runs into Eddie, recognizes him although he probably only saw Eddie through the confessional's grate. He remembers Eddie's name, too. He cares! And I don't think that's a sexual/romantic thing at all - and I don't think it is religious either. Yes, religion is the context within which he works, but it's not the only context.

He's not technically on the job when he sits down at that table; he's away from the protection by the grandiose rituals embedded in going to church, confession, wearing robes. He does it out of personal care, affection for humanity; he fills the role of a social worker, a guidance counselor - and religion is one of his tools but it's clearly not his only tool. It's also his ability to observe, and to listen, and to reflect on things - putting his finger on the sore spot in ways no one else in Eddie's life has done. That takes guts, especially because he knows Eddie's in a vulnerable place.

And he does it not because he's interested in Eddie romantically/sexually - that is not the reciprocity he seeks, nor the reciprocity that fulfills him. He does it because he cares.

The setting certainly helps too. Eddie doesn't feel as intimidated, not like a fish out of water. Only his title marks Father Brian as a religious figure; he uses it to break the ice and mark himself as safe ("I am celibate"), and then finally invokes his position to speak to Eddie's Catholic guilt and get him to do something for himself.

I don't know. It just felt deeply human and caring and I enjoy that a lot, and I love how it all connects back to Eddie first realizing his Catholic guilt in 7x05.

[cornchrunchie]

I'm sure someone already pointed it out, but– I just can't get over the symbolism of the church scene in 1941. How the bomb shatters the church and kills the nazis and leaves Aziraphale and Crowley behind.

The bomb literally destroys the Good™ (the church obviously represents Heaven) and the Bad™ (we know that the nazis represent Hell because that's where we meet them again. Also, they're nazis) but it doesn't do any harm to Aziraphale and Crowley, therefore placing them with neither Good nor Bad but rather something in between.

Look at them. The sacred ground is scattered around them, not even sacred anymore, since Crowley no longer is bothered by it. What once was to resemble the Evil is now buried beneath.

But there is Aziraphale, who used a miracle to save not only himself but also Crowley. And there is Crowley, who used a miracle to save Aziraphale's books. Because they care for each other. Because they look out for each other. Because neither of them is solely good or bad, they are shades of grey.

We even see Crowley pulling the bag out of the dead person's hand, which could be interpreted as an act of ultimate liberation from the past. After thousands of years of choosing between Heaven and Hell, Crowley chooses to save the books for Aziraphale.

Even though this scene takes place years before they get cut loose from Heaven and Hell respectively, it already depicts Aziraphale and Crowley as independent from both, as their own team. It's the visual proof that they already are an us.

In the end, it all comes down to them. When Heaven and Hell lose their power, when there's little more than broken pieces left –

Aziraphale and Crowley still survive. Together.

Anyways, I'm going mad over here

[s0fter-sin]

god the way ghost’s voice drops when he tells soap, “you’ll need to improvise to survive”

before that, everything he says is steady but when he acknowledges that soap’ll have to do something outside his skill set, something he intimately knows to be difficult, his voice wavers. he does the same when he says, “welcome to guerrilla warfare”; it’s sombre and serious in a way he doesn’t act for the rest of the mission. if you read into it enough, he almost sounds apologetic; like he knows exactly what soap’s about to go through and wishes he didn’t have to

he keeps soap going; poking at him and making jokes, giving him tips and asking about his progress. he never lets him stop and take a second to think bc he knows the moment he does is the moment it'll all hit him; the betrayal, the pain, the fear, the deaths, all of it will drown him and if that happens, soap won't make it

he needs him to be a soldier through and through and he knows this is one of the worst kinds of battlefields you could end up on

and the only times he slips is when he acknowledges that fact

it happens again when he says, "tryin' to get you here alive and in one piece". his jovial dark humour facade drops for just a moment when he has to face the potential reality of losing soap. then he tries to pick it back up again with, "one of us has to survive to tell the tale"; completely discounting himself as a survivor to try and rally soap and make him think it’s all down to him

and soap does the same thing

when he's calling out for ghost on the radio, he's tentative, testing the frequency, then when he doesn’t get a response, he grows desperate; "ghost, this is 7-1, do you copy?"

then when ghost answers, he smooths out his voice; he hides the pain, the fear, and no matter what response you give to ghost asking if he’s injured, soap brushes it off (“i’m good”, “what’s the difference?”, “i’m not a medic”). soap decides it’s in ghost’s best interest to hide the extent of his injuries

he doesn’t know where ghost is, if he’s secure, if he has any weapons; he doesn’t even know if he’s in las almas until he says, “there’s a church, i’m headed to it”. for all he knows, he could’ve run in the complete opposite direction. if ghost knows he’s hurt, then his attention would be split between his own survival and soap’s

and soap, who lets himself be poked and prodded towards the church, needs to hide his own doubts. maybe he needs ghost to believe he'll make it so he himself can believe it ("what are my odds?" "don't make me bet against you", "think i'll live that long?" "probably not")

he all but begs ghost to tell him he'll get through it and if he knows just how bad off he is, maybe he'll change his mind. maybe he'll think he won't make it to the church

maybe he'll leave him alone for good

"you injured?"

"i’m good"

"let's find out how good you are"

[cedarxwing]

We all know that Matthew set up the pool scene as a reference to the hanging of Judas (Matthew 27:3-10), inspired by Hannibal's own lecture from the novel and Antipasto.

Then Matthew complicates things by duct taping Hannibal's arms to a broken broom pole, making him look like Jesus. Judas is never depicted in the crucifixion pose (he's normally hanging from a tree branch), so the show is obviously implying that Hannibal is playing a sacrificial/savior role in this episode (at least in the eyes of Jack and Alana).

But then Matthew keeps spreading his arms out in mockery. I don't know why I never put this together before, but he's totally supposed to be the impenitent thief!

Jesus was crucified along with two bandits. The one on his right was penitent and asked for Jesus to remember him in heaven. The one on his left mocked Jesus with the rest of the crowd, saying that if he was really the son of God, he should be able to save himself. Matthew is standing on Hannibal's left in both of those shots, and there's an empty spot to Hannibal's right where the penitent thief would stand if he was present. How fun!

[itsyouch]

I hate this mfr.

[slotumn]

Sort of a meta-meta post on how 3H fandom tends to discuss Fódlan's internal politics and the problems I have with that:

The things the factions do don't exist in a vaccuum, yet much of the arguments in the faction wars™ pretty much comes down to "so and so faction does [x thing] and that's why they're bad" vs "no they don't/no that's not a bad thing" instead of like, considering how/why they might have come to do [x thing] in the first place.

For specific examples of the above:

I see stuff like "Adrestia invades other countries and that's bad" but a lot I don't think I've ever seen analysis that goes "Adrestia feels threatened by rival states that have Relics while they don't, and the other two nations breaking away from Adrestia was considered great loss/humiliation internally, so a war to conquer the other two would both take care of the military threat and be quite popular domestically"

Or I see "Faerghus is religious and that's bad" but rarely stuff like "after gaining independence the Faerghan crown and other eastern Crested houses probably shifted hard to being friendly with Central Church in order to solidify their legitimacy, possibly at the cost of alienating western houses who mostly lacked Crests + had their own regional Church."

I see "Leicester fights Almyrans and is racist about it and that's bad" but not "all three nations collaborated to build Fódlan's Necklace and keep Almyrans out, it's possible that a big part of why Adrestia/Faerghus/Church lets Leicester exist even though it's the smallest and least unified of the nations is because they're the buffer state, so Leicester (and especially Goneril) gains political incentives to go extra hard on being xenophobic to Almyrans and position themselves as the 'noble defenders of Fódlan from barbaric eastern hordes.'"

There's "Church does Crest system and that's bad" but not something like "Church taking donations motivates them to be buddy buddy with whoever pays them the most, which probably includes the major Crested houses across the continent because they have generational wealth accumulated since Five Saints/Elites days, and all this enables corruption in the Church and motivates them to overlook abuse of Crest inheritance system"

Like, if you wanna take the ~serious in-universe political analysis~ approach to arguing for your blorbo being the correct one who will fix everything, commit to it and go in depth! Imo that's honestly way more fun and interesting than the same old loops of "thing good/thing bad."

[blackjackkent]

This is so fucking funny to me. I don't think this is what Khalid had in mind at all.

[roxannepolice]

Something about 15 having more elements of Gallifreyan culture (the writing on the sonic and on the freaking nails) in his image than any Doctor before.

Something about him flippantly stating he was abandoned instead of TOTALLY KIDNAPPED MY PARENTS WERE TOTALLY SOMEWHERE THERE IN THAT COMPLETELY EMPTY SPOT.

Something about knowing it's more important to save Ruby now than to learn of her past.

Something about parent with their own issues frame rather than an eternal child.

Something about Carla using the same words as the Doctor to reflect on how we are defined by our memories and people we know rather than by vague essence of might have beens.

Something about identifying with the past you had with its good and bad sides rather than the very bad sides you can't even remember.

And yes, something about Gatwa being the first first generation immigrant to play the Doctor.

[dandelionjack]

hey insane doctor who people. remember the snowman scene in the church on ruby road? there was no baby in the pram 👀 instead of a baby it was “shopping” . tags i left on a gifset then realised fuck it, it deserves its own post

gift-wrapped baby that’s not a baby. saved by the doctor from imminent mortal danger but the snowman was hollow on the inside too…

[wbne]

despite opinions on Restoration, I think that the fanfictions that are gonna come out of s19 are going to be insanely good

[time-is-restored]

What Happened At The Church On Ruby Road?

AKA: Why does RTD want us to watch Ruby's first episode with a ruler and protractor?

Alright, so since I read this article excerpt yesterday night I haven't been able to stop thinking about what trick could be hidden in the sequence between the cloaked woman, the doctor, and baby ruby. While I'm not at all claiming to know the answer, I have a few details to point out that might help with further analysis.

First of all: A Continuity Error (On Purpose?)

At the very beginning of TCORR, when the doctor's giving his 'once upon a time,' speech, we see the TARDIS materialise + the doctor appear, looking in the direction of the cloaked woman, looking distraught. Disney+ is evil so I can't get an accurate screenshot, so take this scuffed photo instead, taken from 1:03. You can see a tear rolling down his cheek (little white dot on the left of his face, in line w this nose).

Later in the episode, when the doctor materialises in the scene for the first time, there is no tear. It's a marginally different shot in several ways, but that's the most noticable to me - screenshot taken from 42:59.

By itself, this is totally negligible. But I think when taken with the opening monologue (which heavily implies that the doctor finds out the cloaked woman's identity - "As for the mother, she was never seen again. No one ever knew her name, until that night a time traveller came to call. A traveller known as the Doctor."), there is possible evidence here that the doctor came to this moment twice. Once in the sequence of events as we see them, rescuing Ruby from the goblins, and once where... something else happened.

Second: The Layout of The Church

We get a few aerial shots of the church when the camera is showing the ascent of the ship, and a lovely wide shot as the doctor decides to not follow the cloaked woman (taken from 46:28 and 44:07).

The most important thing I want to point out is the way the hedge path curves to the right in the direction the doctor and the cloaked lady are facing. You can only really see it in that one shot (so I hope it's not a lens effect!). The aerial shot helps clarify that nothing is obstructing either of the character's view of the church.

We can also see that in this iteration of their encounter, the cloaked woman is standing a little bit to the right of the doctor (thanks to the curved path).

Third: The Timing

The only real indication of how much real time is passing in each scene is the clock striking midnight. So, when does that happen?

In the opening sequence, the clock strikes midnight after the man from the church has found Ruby and picked her up. We then see the woman relatively far down the road that we can see in that above screenshot, and THEN we see the TARDIS apparate and the Doctor appear.

In the goblin sequence, the woman is already far down the road well before it hits midnight, as the doctor sees her walking away before he runs to save baby ruby. Obviously time moves slower than usual in TV actions scenes, but that's not all - we see the clock strike midnight before the man from the church picks Ruby up.

Furthermore, the woman has... barely moved at all in those few minutes. Screenshots from 43:00 and then 46:45.

Okay, that should be all the relevant information from TCORR. Now to get to that point!

Fourth: The Point

This is where things go off the fucking rails. Here's our orienting shots for the Point.

Just to compare the positions of the doctor's shot here, here's the last shot we have of him looking at the lady in TCORR:

While this could just be a fancy camera angle, I think the Doctor is standing more to (his) left of the TARDIS than in this above shot. AKA: he's standing more to the left than she is. That emphasises that, if the woman was to be pointing at him when she turns around, she should be pointing to her right.

But I don't think she is -- especially in that wide shot, her arm looks like it's going wide. It's going more to the left than it should be. If RTD hadn't explicitly said the 'who's pointing at who' was significant, I would be fine with accepting that she's pointing at the doctor -- especially since that's how the doctor reads it.

And if we go back to the layout of the church, the things she could be pointing at are, in order of exactly how far to the left she'd have to point:

something just behind the doctor (would explain how close the point is to him)

the path up to the church

the clock tower

ruby/the baby

Regardless of where she's pointing, I think the implication is that there's someone else at the scene, doing something that the doctor didn't notice (perhaps due to his own bias with mother figures).

Wild Speculation:

Now, what do I think this means? Honestly, no idea LOL. It's still all just vague enough it could go in fifty different directions. But we know for sure that the moment where Ruby Sunday was left at the church is a moment in flux, thanks to the the Doctor's memory changing + the song in the background being different in Devil's Chord.

Part of me wonders if there's something (someone?) hiding inside that memory/moment in time? Like how Thirteen hid her companions inside their own time stream to try and buy time away from the swarm guys? It would explain the Maestro's reaction -- 'he couldn't have been there[...] on the night of her birth' -- in the devil's chord, the young boy is a harbinger. Maybe ruby is the harbinger of something too? That could also explain why it started snowing in the TARDIS after 15 scanned her -- the same thing happened when Maestro started trying to pull out her song.

Then if you go with the changeling angle, it's entirely possible we're about to get a shell game with babies 2: electric boogaloo (thanks russel for saying we should rewatch a good man goes to war, i'll never sleep again 👍). Maybe while the doctor's too busy watching the cloaked woman, someone else is intervening, switching her baby for ruby? Or doing something To her baby that explains why ruby is so... wrong, for lack of a better word?

Also, looking between the opening sequence vs the goblin sequence timing, we have several minutes where the cloaked woman is totally unaccounted for in the latter, as well as an entire interaction between her and the doctor that... didn't happen? Or did happen, but was forgotten? Unwritten? Rewritten? Etc.?

If I had to make a bet (and let's be honest, what else are we doing while theorising LOL), I'd say that something about that night has been memory-holed out of existence. Possibly a doomed timeline that righted itself, ala 73 yards, but left just enough trace that the people involved know something happened (ruby knows she's been to wales three times before, the doctor knows he was pointed at).

I think it was triggered when the lady and the doctor got too close to each other (did she hear that the goblin ship was taking her baby? did she turn around and see something she otherwise would have missed?), and realised something about each other (or ruby?) that needed to stay dormant. the cold opening implies the doctor learns her name, and since there don't appear to be any time of the angels sneaky outfit change moments, i can only assume it happened here, somewhere in this memory.

And hell, in for a penny in for a pound, maybe it all got undone (retconned, in universe, in real time), because the Doctor shouldn't learn about the cloaked woman until the finale? Spoilers? In TV meta, did the director tell all the other actors (the church man + the cloaked lady) to hold in place until the doctor was back in position?

[Final note, regarding the continuity error I noted first up, in TV shows with ad breaks factored in -- brief fades to black at dramatic moments, then the last ten seconds play again to remind the audience what's happening -- sometimes directors would use different takes for before and after the ad break. Maybe that's the explanation for the tear -- in universe, that cold open stopped in its tracks the moment the opening was cued to play. It then started again with a doctor who had last cried several minutes ago, and the scene played out as intended.]

Anyway fellow 'the mistakes are in there on purpose' believers how are we FEELING!!!!!

[fischiee]

rvb ft. goofs and gags pt. 3

[sabotourist]

how we feelin rvb fans

[mollysunder]

Remember how during Progress Day we saw some Zaunites giving away eyeballs to a giant turtle vastaya?

Based on the vastaya's eye tattoo, I assumed this had to do with Silco (Eye of Zaun blah blah blah). After I read more League stories, I came to realize this might be an early iteration of the Church of the Gloriously Evolved. In Camille's story, The Weakest Heart, we learn of the First Assemblage of the Gloriously Evolved. On Progress Day, members of the Church, following an old Zaunite tradition, sacrifice something personal in the hope that something better will come to them. In Gloriously Evolved fashion that usually means removing diseased (bordering necrotic) body parts. One of the more commonly preserved organ in the church were eyes, jarred like pickled eggs.

Obviously, you'd assume that the Church of the Gloriously Evolved can't exist without Viktor's Glorious Evolution. That's doesn't seem to be the case in League though, because the Church more draws inspiration from Viktor's ideology and does its own thing with Zaunite traditions. They even have a whole patron saint separate from Viktor, the Gray Lady. It seems more like that instead of Viktor's ideology amassing a cult following from scratch, he and this organization's ideology built up separately and managed to converge.

Thus is just me spit'ballin tho. It could still be a cult related to Silco, to Void worship, who knows.