#cas and john

[shallowseeker]

JOHN ROWENA FIGHT?!!!!

You see? Yes!!!! Specifically, I want her to make him cry.

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Ref to John versus later-seasons characters:

John is butting heads with Rowena:

Because it would amuse me personally if she were able to make him cry. Also, no one would stop her. That's just Rowena's way. She gets away with things like this.

On a serious note, Rowena is shifting much of self-hatred of her Past Self onto John, and it’s delicious. All of her failures as a parent can now be safely expressed, and she’s petty enough to indulge (because John is a dick and he *reacts* like one of those kindergarten volcanoes)

John likes to stir shit up? Well, he can’t out-shit-stir Rowena MacLeod. No siree.

RE: The potential of a John & Cas fight

It's not that I think he wouldn't fight with Cas. I just think Cas, at least in later seasons, might be relatively disciplined and composed in the face of John Winchester's anger. (I think a bit about how Cas is pretty successful in gray-rocking Lucifer, for example.)

Also, Cas's background as a soldier means John might even suck up to Cas in some respects.

//

But I think there's a strong element of it arising from a situational issue... John pushes people away (at least part of the reason for so many falling out situations later in life), but he seems particularly triggered and afraid when people leave. (Or lie. Or underprepare him. Or treat him like a damsel/child.)

In the fight with Sam in Dead Man's Blood, John is totally freaking out because he’s paranoid/afraid of everything being too much to handle and not being able to protect everyone, but also he prominently screams at Sam:

JOHN: “You left. Your brother and me, we needed you. You walked away, Sam. (Yelling in SAM’S face) You walked away!”

//

I think it’d be so cool if through Plot Reasons, it’s when Cas left and came *back* that John got triggered.

Maybe after Cas does one of his abrupt, unannounced departures that has Dean frantically checking the phone. And John gets Weird(TM) about it because it gets all tied up with John’s unresolved feelings about Henry leaving.

It's about the whiplash, about how someone who's been up now unreliable and unshakeable suddenly leaves out of the blue. John could come unglued. Also. Like Sam, I think John wouldn't like a dose of his own medicine very much...

Imagine if we carry it further: Imagine transference. Imagine John getting mad at Cas on Dean’s behalf. Like, Dean would be struck silent, and very very confused.

JOHN: “DEAN NEEDS YOU HERE!” etc etc. The delicious hypocrisy!

And just... it’d be such a delicious mess! Not to mention, it could echo Dean getting mad at Henry on John’s behalf in As Time Goes By:

DEAN: “He thought you ran out on him! Your responsibility was to your family, not some glorified book club!”

//

Other thoughts:

Cas is, on the whole, I think more composed than John, and much more barbed when he wants to make a point, maybe.

If Cas ever lost his temper with John, I can easily see it being over Jack’s safety. And Cas would say something low and angry, meant only for John's ears, like, “If something happens to Jack because of YOUR stupidity, I will tear you limb from limb.”

Then we’d get a long shot of John after the fact, staring after Cas in an impressed way, thinking, “Hell yeah. This guy would tear me limb from limb over his kid and I am so approving of that attitude.”

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Otherwise, I think they’re the type to fight about specific things, like disagreeing on strategy.

Anyway, I just love when everything is discordant and confusing. <3

[mikonez]

Joe Bowler jarthur redraw be upon ye!!! based on this!

some other versions because i literally cannot make a decision

[moookar]

[scoobydoodean]

Sorry but this is also part of why fantasies of Cas meeting John Winchester and trying to beat him up simply do not work for me. I simply do not think that would happen, because for Cas to actually understand the complications of Dean and John's relationship, he'd have to be able to look in the mirror and see himself mirroring the man. Cas isn't the guy who beats up John. He's the guy that admires John's handwriting.

Sorry to people who want Dean to be thee John parallel so sooo bad but the truth is that they are all John parallels in specific ways (and that isn't the end of the world). That said, when it specifically comes to "not stepping up" as some like to call it—otherwise known as abandoning your family/leaving other people in charge of your kids so you can go be by yourself all alone/ not answering the phone to let the people who love you know that you are safe, the person mirroring John quite closely is Cas.

[likapad]

Here is my sad beige character alignment chart

Let me know of any alterations it needs!

[calibrationneeded]

“History Doesn't Repeat Itself, but It Often Rhymes”

Mark Twain

[soft-pine]

so much supernatural discourse boils down to claiming a thing we actually see dean do on the show is something he would not do, claiming a thing we see dean specifically not do on the show is something he would do, claiming something all the main characters do is something dean alone is doing, or claiming something sam does on the show is something dean did.

and im so confused. because the answer is comically simple and it's a thing we all allegedly love doing and that is... watching supernatural?

[annmariethrush]

There is not a SINGLE thing I love more than Cas offering threatening to kill John Winchester. Cas would smite anything that tried to hurt Dean and he would be BEYOND pissed that someone Dean trusts as much as his father treats him like that. It is my favorite fucking thing. I implore people to make up stupid reasons in your fic for John Winchester and Castiel to be in the same room to make sure that Cas gets to fucking deck him.

The SPN writers were cowards when they made it so that John and Cas weren’t in the same room together during Lebanon because you better fucking believe that would have been the end for John in all timelines.

[from-a-spiders-web]

I have hidden inside a sea shell but forgotten in which. Now daily I dive, filtering the sea through my fingers, to find myself… “The Sea Shell” by Marin Sorescu 

[venbysstuff]

The fact that John Winchester (100% a homophobe) had to kiss a male demon to save his son who ended up being down bad for an angel that looks like a tax accountant is crazy.

Edit:GUYS I MENT HE LOOKED LIKE A TAX ACCOUNTANT NOT TAX ACCOUNT 🥲

[dirigibleplumbing]

4 years later.

[shallowseeker]

The problem, anon, is that while I love Cas to pieces, and he is more often than not my absolute favorite, I am not an expert Cas guy. And I might have to find a Cas guy to answer your question. 💔

[wistfulpoltergeist]

Meet Mary Morstan (ex Watson). John's Ex wife who's done having toxic relationships with traumatized alcoholics. And we're all very proud of her! Because, Mary deserves happiness. (And so do you, John)

[astr0exe]

omg what about a guard dog TM reader but who’s such a whiny bottom with maybe ghost or soap?? idk!!! drooling tbh 🫢

so.. large scary tm!reader who is just a whiny mess ?? ,, this is more hc’s than a proper shot (hope thats okay darlin)

:: CW // tm!reader , size kink , puppy play (ish?)

☆ Reader who is built like a brick wall , thinking 6’3-5 pure muscle , maybe goth / grundge

☆ poor boy is just so scary.. Needs someone to take care of him.. Soap will happily volunteer:]

☆ your voice straining as you nearly choke Soap with your muscular thighs ,, whimpers and whines filling the room as Soap’s tongue flicks your sensitive cock

☆ your eyes rolling back as your grip the sheets tightly as Soap looks up at you from between your legs his moans are also loud just from your thighs around his head as you orgasm, tears dripping down your face

“such a good fucking puppy for me.. Just needing someone to look after you huh?“

[angelsdean]

oh, cursed thought a lot of ppl don't want to examine.....the parallels between john ghosting dean to go off and do his own thing and neglecting to inform him where he is / if he's alive and cas ghosting dean for weeks / months to go off and do his own thing and neglecting to inform him where he is / if he's alive. something that's a basic common courtesy esp when you're living the lives they live and doing the things they do, which could get them killed at any moment. oh dean :( he's been WORRIED and SCARED for the people he loves his whole life. he's been sitting and waiting for someone he cares abt to come home his whole life, and scared he may never see them return again. he's always looking back. always looking at the door. always looking at the phone that won't ring. 😭😭😭

[loosethreadsofyoursoul]

while i will always love and appreciate the bisexual dean winchester agenda, i truly believe that if he was raised differently—or maybe if he grew up today instead—that boy would have been gay. like his love for women in a romantic/sexual context was always such a caricature and was continuously used as a symbol of masculinity that played against the roles assigned to him by his father growing up for the sake of suppressing any queerness he might exhibit. now whether that suppression was purposely written into his character or was a reaction to the character they had created, i’m not sure, but it’s there regardless.

i don’t mean to dismiss the love he felt for cassie or lisa, but particularly with lisa, i’m not sure he was ever in love with her, despite the fact that he did care for both her and ben. i get so frustrated watching the end of s5 because him going to her house and his perfect “apple pie life” being with her in suburbia genuinely came out of nowhere and i’ve never understood a) why it had to happen, and b) why it had to be lisa. but thinking about it in this sense, she was the closest thing he had in his life to everything he was raised to believe he should want by one john winchester, who lost his perfect wife, perfect family, perfect apple pie life and sent all of them down this path in the first place. so of course to dean, his happy ending would be with someone like lisa. but that’s the important part. someone like lisa, not lisa herself. he may have had love for her and he may have been able to picture a life with her, but it wasn’t necessarily because she was everything he wanted; she was a symbol of the things that tore his family apart and so to be with her felt like he was finally able to put some of it back together. and that makes me so sad for him because all of that is a result of the sense of responsibility ingrained in him growing up by john, not something he wanted for himself.

but back to his general attitude towards women, there was an excellent post that said he only acts like the typical womanizer he has a reputation for being around women deemed “stereotypical” by the misogynistic perspective. otherwise, he tends to take on a fairly brotherly role; he doesn’t tend to pursue any women he can “take seriously,” and is more intimidated or impressed by them than anything else. with the exception of cassie (which was pre-series and we never got full context for in the first place), he only ever pursued women with whom he would have a definitive ending—by that i mean women who he knows he’ll never see again or who would have a clearly defined role during the time they’re together that wouldn’t threaten the status quo. and yes these could also be the traits of a commitment-phobe or someone chronically on the move, but for one, sam doesn’t tend to do the same thing (see ruby, amelia, and eileen), and for two, given the things i mentioned already, it makes me consider it more of a result of him not actually being interested in women romantically.

his reaction to women when not purposely used as the butt of a joke or to perpetuate the “womanizer dean winchester” agenda is often so innately fraternal, caring in a way that doesn’t have any expectations behind it. and when there is a romantic context, so much of the relationship can be attributed to the way john raised him and the beliefs he has as a direct result; it’s never simply been built on the foundation of love.

every time he is dismissed as this macho het guy, it also dismisses so much of what makes him a wonderful character, and yes a lot of that is his queerness. so in a world where he didn’t grow up with roles and responsibilities that shaped him into someone he knew his dad hated and forced him to create this character for himself in order to survive? i think he would have been gay and he would have been okay with that.