#can we talk about those animatics

[dynasty889]

Wisdom Saga Ranking

Okay, so first off I literally had to sing to keep myself awake during the livestream (started getting tired around the Circe Saga). I still have mixed feelings about this saga but over all I like it.

1. Little Wolf - This is probably my favorite. I loved the animatic for it!! (I think it was based on Mortal Kombat, sorry not the biggest video game geek). I loved the way Athena was reintroduced into EPIC. And also so relatable. You get a great power up but you still lose to the boss.

2. Legendary - The animatic and Argos lmao! 🤣 Anyway, this song turned pretty dark during the suitors’ verse. You can definitely already tell they’re planning to take the throne and Penelope by force. It’s a total bop lmao.

3. We’ll Be Fine - I did hear the lyric changes and I am a little sad Telemachus might not have gone to Pylos and Sparta (like he does in the Odyssey). I love Teagan’s singing in this song but I feel like it ended kind of abruptly.

Uhhh I don’t know where to rank Love in Paradise and God Games.

Love in Paradise: As a story, this song works. As a song just to listen, maybe not as much. I always thought the time dive would be in the middle of the song. I guess not? Gigi’s animatic for the song definitely makes Calypso very adorkable. Im pretty neutral about Calypso’s characterization in EPIC because I think it’s important we establish that Odyssey!Calypso is not the same as EPIC!Calypso (because it’s an adaptation duh). It almost seems to be implied that even though Odysseus was spared in Thunder Bringer, Zeus still punished him by stranding him. Like, it seems that Calypso might almost be influenced by Zeus? I’m not sure how to explain it, but like I’m trying to say Zeus played a hand in Odysseus’ seven year stay on Ogygia (which is why he’s so mad at the end of God Games.) I’m also very glad we still get to see how seven years with a woman he didn’t want messed up Odysseus. I know he’s also got trauma from other stuff, but it’s still good to see that he is barely clinging to sanity because of Calypso. Also, those notes Odysseus sings right before he calls out to Athena. It almost sounds like he’s saying “home” (that’s how I’ve been singing it anyway)

God Games: I think this song is so fucking cool. But it suffers from some of the choices of the gods featured in this song. I will stand by the fact that Apollo didn’t need to be in this song. He’s like the boss that’s way too easy, even for beginning players. Hephaestus’ reason made a little more sense. Also bonus points for being voiced by Jay’s dad. Aphrodite and Ares felt like the actual first boss fight. Their verses were longer and while their reasons may still be a little iffy, we got to see some hesitation from the gods. Hera’s verse was pretty cool just cause of how groovy it is, but she also seemed to be convinced a little too easy. I don’t know. Zeus…oh my god. Jay needs to bring Luke for one more song. He was so badass in that song! Also:

Ares(? I don’t know which god said): “Is she (Athena) dead?”

Also the previous song: “Goddesses can’t die.”

I loved the instrumental and the animatic that went along with it. It really reminds me of the Thunder Saga trailer and that little melody at the end of Thunder Bringer.

Also, Gwendy’s animatic for the end of God Games is just so fucking amazing. It literally looks like an anime. I need EPIC: The Anime after all of these animatics. Jay did so much for the Wisdom Saga and I love it.

[sunny-knight]

THIS IS HOME

@forgettable-au Fan-Animatic ⭐️

The stars welcome him with open arms…

Work and Progress + Analysis below!

You can find the work in progress things here! because I wanna show the sketch animatic and you can only upload one video…

The entire idea was inspired off of THIS lovely little qna written a bit ago! havnt forgotten about it since! Despite what the AU might have you believe And recently I decided I could just draw out the fun part instead of go through the pain of storyboarding and cleaning up a nearly 4 minute long song 👍👍👍

Thats the idea though, theres no real plot, so no real context I can give other than the things the comic itself already provides. “This Is Home” just works incredibly well for this poor childs trauma, and it was a great opportunity to practice my composition and storytelling!!

Onto the deep analysis of every frame individually!!! (this is normal. this happens every time.)

The idea that Wingdings just eventually- gave up. Trying to connect with anyone. HURTS ME DEEPLY. I’m not sure if thats specifically because he just couldn’t get the font thing down, but I imagine that was a big contributing factor. But thats what specifically stops him here. He eventually slams his keys down on the board and says “IM DONE” and throws himself into a thing he can purely enjoy on his own- science. Even at a young age, I feel he only had 2 lives. One with Sans, and one with science. Then when those worlds combined when he became the royal scientist uhhh- I imagine it got worse.

Speaking of his young age, In these shots he’s also notably a tad older than the later depictions of his younger self with the scarf. Less full of joy and whimsy

“His mind is in a different place” is taken a tad more negatively than in the context of the song I feel, as he’s more or less isolated himself from everyone (but Sans) now in this “giving up” phase of his childhood. I wonder how Sans noticed/took that and if he tried to convince him otherwise, but in this case he just thinks he needs some time to himself.

Also let it be known that the words being crammed in at the “Give him a little bit of space” bit is on PURPOSE and a SILLY LITTLE JOKE/VISUAL GAG GIVEN THE LINE. I AM SO FUNNY.

The colors are also notably dark blues, that get greyer when Wingdings has given up. The light that Sans lets in ((looks into the camera, tearing up)) is still pretty cold despite it being brighter.

The berating is also in uppercase to show most of this is from Wingdings’ pov- I know he speaks in proper casing at this time, but I NEED SOME SORT OF INDICATOR, WORK WITH ME HERE. His main issue was his own self consciousness and desire to communicate properly, since it was said before on the blog that no one really picked on him for his inability to talk to them.

Then we have Papyrus!! The colors are similarly blue, but a lot brighter and a touch purpler and greener. Its from the same world, but not the same person. Also he’s wearing a yellow vest which is the complimentary color to blue ☝️

Papyrus is more heavily associated with warm colors in contrast to Wingdings, but this takes place very early on when he was very confused where his place was (or at least I assume thats what happened). He’s associating with warm colors (yellow) but is somewhat weary about it and still subconsciously clutching onto the comfort in familiarity.

The scene ofc depicts Papyrus being incredibly uncomfortable about any photos of himself as a child. It still definitely…looooks… like him. it just feels really wrong.

Similar thing to last time with the fonts as well, uppercase, Papyrus’ pov, he just wants to know who/WHAT he is.

I enjoy the colors in the photo and how they reallly stand out from the rest of the shot, just another emphasis that the photo feels otherworldly to Papyrus.

This is the part where I start weeping pitifully. The tiny Wingdings to Gaster comparison- it’s just so upsetting, I want to know what this poor child would think if he saw what he ends up as 😭

Wingdings enjoyed dreaming about the real stars he MIGHT get to see one day with Sans. The scene is dark, as it still hasnt happened yet, but still bright and hopeful as he stares up at the light! Its always a possibility. But then we have Gaster, who finally did it. He reached the stars, he gets to look up and say “wow…. I really did it”. Staring up at the void before him. Without Sans…I feel he wouldn’t ponder on it much, and consciously he doesn’t see anything bad about his circumstances, but the crack going down his eye that elludes to a tear says otherwise in the suppressed emotions.

The world Wingdings lived in when he was small, seemed so endless…Despite the underground being small compared to the real world, his imagination was endless. He could dream, he could imagine, and create things, get and give new ideas! But now as an adult that just so happens to be a lovecraftian entity, everything is much more simple and straightforward. At least from his perspective…Gaster may be able to DO way more than he ever could as a small child, but his mind is pretty one track at this point.

I wonder how Gaster feels…Now that they’ve gotten to the surface. without him

Im not sure how Papyrus in the game or even in the comic feels about stars, but Sans for one doesnt have to daydream anymore. They’ve also “done it” just like Gaster, but the hug insinuates less of that and more a “we WON”. They share in this moment together more emotionally than anything.

Again, compared to Gaster and them, they enjoy the moment in their own ways- Gaster just the action of seeing the stars, and Papyrus in what the moment itself means. I feel those are the 2 wants Wingdings had and thats a lot of what Papyrus and Gaster are. 2 halfs of Wingdings’…whole…thing

Also the stars welcoming him with open arms is both in reference to Sans but also Papyrus welcoming/accepting/loving himself…

IN CONCLUSION:

…yknow ive never asked before, but if anyone has any questions or needs clarification im happy to-

[anniflamma]

So I’ve received a couple of anonymous messages telling me that they were really disappointed in me for liking Elian's Antinous fanart. Instead of answering them individually, I’m just going to make an angry rant post instead. Most of if probably won't make sense anyway.

This post have talk about SA, and homophobia. Be aware. I don’t ship genuinely Telemachus and Antinous, if that’s what you’re wondering. I didn’t even consider the possibility that ship could even exist. At the end of the day, I don't care about that ship.

And do you want me to explain that I know SA is bad? Or that I’m aware Telemachus/Antinous is a toxic ship? Do you think I’m dumb and don’t know that? You don't have to explain to me either, I know that SA is bad, I have experienced it, you don't have to explain to me, trust me I know.

I like Elian's art because it’s really beautiful. Her work is a huge inspiration and encouragement for me when making animatics. But do I REALLY have to spell out, word for word, that I know Antinous is an antagonist and tries to do bad things? Does it mean every time someone draws Antinous and I like it, I have to explain that I like the drawing because it’s well done, not because I support Antinous’ intent toward Penelope and wants to kill Telemachus?

I mean, I’ve seen tons of thirsty comments like, "I hate how Zeus treats women, but your design is really hot" or "Even if Poseidon SA Demeter, this Poseidon I'd go down on all fours for!"

I have seen some stuff….

I guess I could just imitate something like that????

But I know it’s a joke and I know its a fantasy that someone is expressing. Its not real, its fictional. I know all those thirsty ppl who simp over Poseidon, Zeus, or even Antinous aren’t supporting hatred and violence toward women. And yes, I am expecting that you should already know this too. Because if we gonna assume the worst of ppl… Then everyone who likes Greek myth/Epic the musical are pro SA. "Do you like Crice from Epic the musical? That means that you support her actions, you support SA!" "Oh you like Odysseus?! He killed a baby and all of his female slaves cuz they got SA by the suitors! You support infanticide, slavery and SA!" Do you hear how dumb that sounds? To be honest, I wouldn’t be that surprised if there are some who think like this. I mean, this discussion wouldn’t even be a thing, right.

And if you don’t know, I literally make thirst art of Poseidon (and that includes Zeus and Hermes), and you don’t see it as a bad thing??? It’s Poseidon… Do you know what he has done to women in the myths?!

Im going to ramble here and I will bring up stories from greek myth that have SA in it. So be aware.

One example is the story of Caeneus. When Caeneus was a woman, his parents left him to take care of the house while they were out running errands. Poseidon took that as an opportunity to break into the house and sexually assault him. This is probably the only myth where Poseidon actually feels bad after what he did, so he grants Caeneus a wish. Aww, how sweet~~~ /sarcasm.

Do I need to give an example of Zeus? We all know what Zeus does. But hey, I’ve made Poseidon/Hermes ship art. And guess what? There’s a story where Hermes breaks a woman’s leg so she can’t run away from him, and then he sexually assaults her. Isn’t that cute~~! /sarcasm

Heck, I can even go on with my biblical ships. David/Jonathan—David, a serial assaulter and murderer, and Jonathan, a mass murderer. But do I support their actions? No, I do not support mass murder, and its really dumb that I have to spell it out for you.

Daniel/Darius is even questionable too! It's literally a king and his servant, and that power imbalance is so big I don’t know what to tell you! Do I have to spell it out that I know that, in real life, king/servant relationships aren’t cute at all?!

All of these characters that I’ve listed have done or represent horrible things. And I have to tell you that I don't support their actions?! Really? You really can't think outside the box?

But do you see what I’m trying to tell you? We can simp over other ancient mythological figures but Antinous is the red line that we can never cross??? It’s hypocritical and immature, that’s what it is.

Right now, ppl loves the Ody seduces Zeus art I made. And that "ship" is well really questionable too! But nobody have called me a witch and tries to burn me at the stake yet. 😐

And the thing is, I can separate these fictional characters from the real world. I can also separate the fictional material from other fictional interpretations. Exemple, I like The Song of Achilles, in it, they are the same age, but I am also aware that in the Iliad, Achilles is 16 and Patroclus is 26. But do I automatically assume that Madeline Miller likes teens? No! Do I assume that everyone who likes The Song Of Achilles like that shit? No!

But we still can have a disscussion about it without making it into a witch trial.

As long as we can separate different fictional materials, then everything is fine. It only becomes a problem if a person can’t separate them. Then we have a problem. I can acknowledge that my depiction of King David from the bible is not the same as from the original story and that he is horrible person towards women. If I couldn't acknowledge that, then its bad! The same goes for Antinous if someone makes an AU or headcanon about him. If someone want so make AUs about Antinous, my first thoughts isnt "Oh they like to SA ppl!". At the end of the day, this is just a group from tiktok who didn’t like a toxic ship and decided to bully an artist while acting like they have superior morals.

And I get this type of shit from christians when I make my queer bible interpitations, both from those that don't like the queer stuff but also those that points out that David and Jonathan were horrible ppl.

So I rarely answer comments like this because they usually end up spewing beliefs filled with homophobia and Islamophobia. Heck rasism sometimes, apparently, Christians don’t know that the Bible takes place in the Middle East, and they are angry at me for drawing them looking like Arabs! I just delete their comments before they gets there. Making queer biblical animatics on TikTok that go viral on the Christian side is not fun at all guys....

And hate to say it but tiktok Epic fans sound really similar. You are acting like you’re on a pedestal, holier than thou. Its just a different font.

+ I haven’t forgotten all those homophobic comments I got on my David/Jonathan animatic that I posted right after my Ruthlessness animatic. Epic fans were saying they didn’t want “that gay shit” and wanted to see more Epic stuff. Hate to break it to you all, but the Epic fandom isn’t that innocent.

[itty-bitty-sunshine]

THAT'S SO COOL I LOVE THAT YOU COLOR CODED IT

And i think you were spot on with the characters too!!

Guys whats one song you associate my au

I'm bored, lets make a playlist

[eintausendschoen]

Don't ask me how I did it – I just did it – it was hard.

Late, late entry for @mircsy's 'draw this in your style'-challenge #AthenaDTIYSmircsy

That is as far as I got. So far. Might do reworks later. Actually my first DTIYS - never did one before, but I see the fun in it now. No, really, it was a lot of fun, I learned a ton with this, even if I'm not fully convinced of the result.

Also, when I saw mircsy post it, that was an 'immediate HELL, YES'-moment, because I love her art and designs so so so much. Her Polyphemus is who ultimately sold EPIC to me after a total of 3 seconds screentime. I am seriously amazed at the quality all artists and animators produce for the musical accompanying it on its journey to release, but mircsy's art was special.

👀 more yapping, WIPs and progress notes below 👀

It made me want to draw characters again, brought the fun back to drawing and painting for me, and somehow invited me put them out there, again - I can't put a lot of time into it, but I missed this as a joyful hobby and just watching the animatics breathed life back into it for me. So, this lil dtiys entry is a big heartfelt thanks for a nudge I bloody well needed.

So - if you ever read this, mircsy: Rock it all as hard as you can, superstar, make your mark and just enjoy the ride - you're cut out for it! ✨🎆 Wish you the very best for all your endeavours. 💜✨

Progress notes: I tried to challenge myself with this and do stuff out of my comfort zone (*cough* cell shade *cough*). A few things went well, and I am proud of those (metal parts, hands, wings, lineart, i finished it under 5 hours total, stars were fun) and other things I'll need to practise more (soft light + cell shading wtf was I thinking 🙈, glowy stuff, ornaments, less perfectionism, line dynamics, took more time out of me than expected ... (we don't talk about facial expression ahahaha its a nightmare 🙊 i really need to learn how to shade and light these kinds of angles omg 😨)).

As you can see above - the glowy stuff gave me the hardest nightmares, I had no fucking clue how to do that - that was fun, but also took so much time to figure out. Once I had a concept, it went down fast, but up until then... bzzzzzt braindefunct - it's inspired by the Antikythera Mechanism in the end, so Athena can make complicated astronomical calculus while in quick thought to see where Ody ended up.

... her mouth changes in every single picture... 😭🙈

[keferon]

I'm about to be running on very little sleep as Final's just hit. So I whipped this up really fast, because I am now a sucker for Texaid. Hopefully by the end of Finals I can start working on that texaid animatic i'd say i do. ________

[COME ON IN BABY~] The white text on Vortex's ever red screen showed, before he was opening up, allowing the medic turned pilot to step inside. Felix doesn’t think he’d ever get used to Vortex calling him baby, it was weird and annoying when he did it the first couple of times. But now It has become a comfort for him, it lets him know that Vortex is not really all that serious, and is trying to get a kick out of him.  All of his other pilots couldn’t take a joke, to which he reminds the haunted mecha that he killed or mentally damaged them before he really got to know any of them. [THEY WERE NEVER AS FUN AS YOU.]

“Flattered.”

Felix takes his seat, hooking himself up with the neural link so they can talk in real time.

“So any big plans on how to take care of this one?” The mecha powers up, much like the few others still in the station. Rodimus, and a few others he has really only spoken to once, as they are still too scared of him and his mecha.

‘I’d say let's have some fun with it, we haven’t had one dancing in a while.’ Felix chuckled at the suggestion, but nods. It would be fun to get one of those aliens to get itself tangled up in its tentacles trying to grab at them.

‘I’d known you’d take my suggestion baby.’ xxx

[DO YOU TRULY FEEL SAFE INSIDE ME?]

Felix looks back at the closed visor, the dead of night had hit. Frankly Felix does not want to try and walk through the halls where he might end up running into Pharma, he’s been acting weird lately, more than usual. 

“Yes, I do. Funny isn’t it. You can kill me in the most gruesome way, yet I'd much rather be with you, then finding myself face to face with a fellow human.” Felix smoothed out the sleeping bag on Vortex’s floor, fluffing up the pillow, then made his way inside to fall asleep. [YOU ARE WEIRD.] “I thought you liked that about me?” There was a long pause, before the sound of grinding gears entered his ears. The sound of metal laughing. 

[YES I DO. NOW SLEEP. BEFORE I CHANGE MY MIND AND GRIND YOU UP INTO A PAST.] An empty threat. Felix finds himself smiling. He reached out of his sleeping bag to pat at the surprisingly warm metal. “Whatever you say, Vortex.” His eyes were already shut, not being able to see the next line of text.

[SLEEP WELL FELIX BABY.]

xxx

[STOP IT YOU’RE HURTING HIM, STOP IT YOU’RE HURTING HIM, STOP IT YOU’RE HURTING ME, STOP IT YOU’RE HURTING US.] No matter how much he begged for Felix’s life, no matter if Shockwave could see him or not. The mad scientist was not stopping, Felix’s screams were not ceasing. 

While the screams of the perishing were normally something he relished in, delighted in hearing. This was not one he ever wished to hear. The agony in Felix's voice was loud and uncomfortable, he wished he could reach inside of himself and pull Felix out. 

But that would hurt Felix, he knows it will. It would harm him to a point he could no longer be his pilot. So he pleaded, he did something he never thought he’d stoop so low too. Yet he did. He did it because he wanted to stay by Felix’s side for as long as he could. 

Because he wanted to hear Flixes’s voice, he wanted to feel his excitement as they crushed the alien invaders, his curiosity when dissecting them to see how their body’s worked. He wanted their late night talks, just them in the silence of an inactive mecha charging station. 

He wanted this and so much more. 

But he won’t get it if Shockwave completely take’s over Felix’s body. 

He had to do something and fast.

‘Hang on Felix, I'm coming.’ 

My texaid soul IS THRIVING

[olderthannetfic]

I'm realizing that there's a part of me that never really internalized the. Um. Principle of art? Idk what to call it–Why art doesn't have to be skillful, or maybe, more specifically, why a person should not just give up if their work is not perfect, why a person's work should be worth anything if it's not "good" especially if they aren't willing to break their backs to improve. Whenever I see people who talk about art like that what I've always done is keep it in mind,bit inside I've always just wished I understood how what their saying is true. If it's true.

So when someone says "AI Art has no soul" for a fraction of a second I think "this sounds like baloney, what does that mean?" Before I remember myself and think "oh huh, yeah, I've seen people talk about how AI really just isn't as advanced or capable of the profit that all the company's and investors think it is, and there are doubtlessly things a veteran artist can do that these programs can't pull off, even if I'm not skilled enough to know what those are yet." And therefore when I come across people online talking about, say, the glaring limitations of LLMs that are now a headache because of how many people blindingly trust them to do their writing for them, that always makes more sense to me than people who talk about "AI art having no soul" and such. And I suspect a big part of it is some sort of insecurity of mine

Because I didn't realize that this is how I felt (I thought I was just mostly, in every part of me, Anti AI, like ‘fuck that noise’ y'know?) Until it came to bite me in the ass. A woman who's like my sister though we aren't related, is letting me live in her house as I try to get my bearings and handle on life after deciding to push my last year of college back a year, and she's like, a capable adult with experience in the job market and some industries so I trust her when she says "you know you're going to have to focus on developing your painting and traditional art skills, since with the Advent of AI Art, no one wants to pay for that service anymore." Because that makes sense. Artists in my country, as far as my college goes anyway, are embracing and trying to figure out how to integrate AI into their workflow so as not to be taken over by it. So the market has definitely changed, I've not really met another artist here who has any profoundly negative views of AI art, definitely customers are for the most part the same. For some job security, I better get a handle on the form of art that can't be replicated well by AI.

And yet I feel horrible. Because now I fear it's going to be a thing where any digital.art I may end up doing in this house will be looked upon disapprovingly. Because I'm not as good in traditional painting and I should be focusing on that, there's no need to be putting so much of my energy into digital art like this because it's no longer going to bring me money. All the personal projects I'm doing, my animatics, my oc character sheets are as they have always been, a waste of time or the thing I tend to focus on rather than my school work art. It doesn't matter that I've realized I kind of hate painting, I still prefer it to every other section of art I could have chosen to specialize in (digital art is under graphic design and I hate graphic design and Photoshop/Adobe/coreldraw etc.) And all of that is bumming me out because my main drive for art seems to be in my personal art despite it getting in the way of school work. And I can't stand the thought that it's not worth anything, that I should take a break from it, that AI art is better at it than me therefore there's no point to it. But what else am I supposed to do when I'm not entirely sure how much of all.that is false? And it's become apparent my entire philosophy of art is on shaky ground.

I just want to know and understand the truth so I can stop feeling this way. I'm sorry for the long ask I'm just really conflicted

--

I'm honestly confused about what your philosophy of art even is.

The vibes I'm getting off of this ask are 1. depression/anxiety and 2. extremely black-and-white thinking.

There is no single Truth™ in art, though there are strong tendencies. AI art sucks for some ethical reasons, regardless of whether the art is pleasing to the eye. AI art also sucks because the way it is programmed leads it to default to one style of human face unless explicitly told not to. "AI has no souuuuul" is silly nonsense. Plenty of boring art by humans also feels soulless.

The actual issue is that "Draw a hot girl" elicits lots of different responses from human artists. AI goes straight for AI Face. There has been drama and much hilarity about shitty book covers where what was supposed to be this individual character has ended up with AI Face in a really visible way. AI also suuuuucks at drawing hands or having little details correct. (Like... even more than human artists already suck at hands, which lbr, is a lot.) AI is objectively bad at art in a bunch of formal ways. It may get better over time, and the least discerning type of customer does not notice, but it does, in fact, suck at its job.

AI art is preferred because it is cheap.

This is the same principle as moving factory jobs from country to country looking for the lowest paid labor.

If you want to make money on art, you have to find something that cannot be done elsewhere and for less. For many people, this means building a cult of personality around themselves so that they are the product and are not replaceable.

You do not sound like someone who wants to be a commercial artist.

I get that you feel you have no obvious path to supporting yourself, but that doesn't mean you actually want to be an artist. Hobby art has plenty of value emotionally and for enriching your life. It does not need to make money to have value.

However, if you want to make a living at art, basic digital arts skills already wouldn't have paid the bills before AI took over, at least not in any market I'm familiar with. The people who pay rent this way generally have a strong interest in multiple types of art, and they are far more interested in fulfilling a brief from a client.

--

Honestly, nonnie, if you can't already tell how bad AI is at digital photorealistic paintings or whatever, I think you do need to go focus on painting classes.

It's not that I think you should be a painter, but if your art school is any good, they should have some instruction on formal, traditional art aesthetics. This will include things like anatomy and composition.

It is that da Vinci Michelangelo shit that will set one digital artist apart from another. I see way too many people whose whole education was drawing bishies for DeviantArt. They refine and refine and refine the surface details without ever addressing the underlying issues with proportion and perspective.

[moustawott]

I am so fucking VINDICATED

(From the movie’s draft script, link to the full animatic at the end of the post)

I’m so upset this movie couldn’t have been just a little more obvious about Orion’s beliefs, cuz the final version does look (at first glance) like Orion is playing out the trope “nooo, we can’t kill the fascist bad guy bc killing bad”

The only reason why I picked up on the writers’ og intentions was thanks to the way D-16 was built up: it’s very, very clear that he wants to kill Sentinel only for self-satisfaction and not true justice

I think the reasons so many have misunderstood that scene were:

A. The writers not being obvious enough with Orion who’s fine with Sentinel dying, he just doesn’t want D-16 to commit murder for self-satisfaction (the movie novelization and this animatic don’t have the same problem)

B. Americans love punishment in their justice system (and online “progressive” fandoms too, I can talk about this for hours lol). A major reason why death penalty still exists in the US is because of this kind of attitude where people will seek self-satisfaction and virtue signalling above true, restorative justice. This is why people support D-16’s way of thinking so much. But Orion is right: a functional—ideal—society can’t be executing people like that, everyone must have a chance for redemption, because if we draw a line between those who deserve and those who don’t, the line will always move in a way to fuck over some random unlucky people eventually

C. People are projecting too much IDW Megatron unto TFOne Megatron. Like, sure, IDW Megatron is based and Coptimus is cursed, but this ain’t the case in TFOne 😭 like at all 😭 D-16 is obviously meant to reflect right-wing thinking (he joins the High “might is right” Guard for fucks sake)

Blah blah something something poor literacy and people lacking the ability to infer/interpret stuff and needing everything spelled out, especially with movies where there’s not just textual info but also visual storytelling + pre-existing tropes that taint our perception of this story

[connorsnothereeither]

So, was Ulysses always supposed to be like a dad to Aax, or did it only come about after he was redeemable and wouldn't die at the end?

Definitely the latter! I don’t remember how much I’ve talked about things in depth before in terms of this, or how much I might be forgetting, so Metta or others can definitely correct me here, but he definitely wasn’t going to be Aax’s dad originally, in the slightest. That was a very late game decision. He was originally going to be almost a villain specifically for Aax and Ocie to combat.

Ulysses was originally just going to be involved with Project Leviathan, but would be able to give some information on Proteus (leaving the spot of the person who freed Aax open for a potential guest NPC)! At that stage, he was still going to be evil and die at the end. I remember at one point even pitching to some people (half jokingly) an almost Hannibal Lector style situation where they basically had him locked up in prison behind glass but would come to him for medical information, or for ways to help the gods (it would be why Fable ended up killing him, so that he couldn’t give information that could harm Fable).

Then at some point I think Metta was the one to suggest that Ulysses be the one who freed Aax. It would have just been a spur of the moment, sudden gaining of a conscience in what Ulysses thought would be his last moments. His final good deed, to make up for as much as he could as he realised how wrong he had been all this time, would be to free Aax. To make even the smallest of amends for the harm he’d caused, not because he cared for Aax, but just because Aax was there to be freed. Ulysses would have found that out not long before he died, and would have died knowing he was, despite everything he did, at least trying to do good. He might not have been a good person, but he did something good, in letting Aax out.

But the longer we sat with that idea, that Ulysses would free Aax, the more we developed it! As Ulysses was planned to stick around and not die, and we started to tie in that storyteller aspect, Metta approached me with the ideas for the animated cutscenes! This idea of Ulysses telling stories to taunt Perseus, but eventually growing despondent to the ways of the Telchin, to the point where he freed her. We scripted the four myth animatics (which eventually were cut down to only three, Proteus, Arachne, and Perseus) where they got softer each time, and we actually rewrote the last one to make it more parental and loving, in the end. And then that arc eventually became more of a caring, loving relationship. Where Ulysses viewed Perseus not as “a living thing that deserves a better life” but “the child I care for and who is my responsibility, who I need to give a better life”.

The actual loving parent decision was very last minute. Like as in,,, the few weeks before that reveal stream I think, when we recorded the cutscenes of the final myth and Ulysses freeing Aax, and saying he was proud of them and cared for them. Not quite being able to say he loved them. It basically wasn’t until we were in prestream call and then actively in the stream role playing live that we decided to have Ulysses say he loved Aax and thought of them as his child, and Aax to say that Ulysses was his dad. It just felt so right to play it like that in the moment, even if we hadn’t planned it to be specifically like that.

And I’m so impossibly happy with how those decisions snowballed and came together and formed into the story we have. It’s genuinely one of my proudest moments as a storyteller and creator and it means so much to me and I can’t thank Metta and everyone else involved enough 🫶

[kytiapseud]

In Defense of Epic Manwhore au

Okay, so I’m kinda nervous to post this but I feel like it should be said. I hope I tagged correctly for the topics I discuss in this. So, in defense of the Manwhore au as for the concept being coerced, it’s not like the god(s) said ‘you’ll die if you don’t have sex with me’. Odysseus is the one who brings it up. Although yes, the line of consent there is a bit murky with Odysseus more doing so to get out of situations rather than because he wants to. It’s totally valid for some fans to not be a fan of the au, not everything in fan spaces is for everyone. You are entitled to your opinion and get to make your fandom experience safe for you. There is something I saw though that felt like commentary about those who came up with/ enjoy the au. To me this felt close to attempted fandom censoring or those who try to ‘cleanse’ all fandom content to what they think is morally correct. Again, it is fine if you want to share your thoughts on something. But I hope no one comes after those who do enjoy the au. I haven’t seen that happen yet, I’m hoping it doesn’t. But the generalization about what it says about those who enjoy the au doesn’t sit right with me. For reasons like I mentioned above, about worrying it could turn into attempted censoring. Especially if anyone tries to get others to agree to black-and-white thinking about what they think is true. That could easily turn into justification to harassment, which I have seen in fandom spaces before. Particularly with anti-proshippers.

There may be valid criticisms to this au concept, but that doesn’t mean everyone who is a fan likes it for the same reasons. Let me address some of what I’ve seen though. The joking about Odysseus being a Manwhore coming from homophobia. Yeah, that’s possible (although personally I feel like a homophobe is more likely to not even mention gay things.) I don’t think that’s always the case though. I know there was one animatic I saw, the first thing I saw for the au, that had a joke in it that I didn’t like. I don’t judge this creator, and in fact it’s a common joke I’ve seen. Particularly with people wishing they didn’t see something. It just doesn’t vibe with me. In no way do I think that those who say such jokes have something wrong with them. People have different senses of humor and I think some use such jokes as a way to cope.

Anyways, I think some of the humor more comes from how unexpected it would be. I mean, we have a war captain facing foes who instead of choosing to fight goes for seducing them. It’s certainly interesting. I know some of the jokes come from the others not involved in the coupling being just shocked or grossed out. I think that more comes from like not wanting to see someone else talk about or get busy with another? I mean, some of these men probably consider each other to be like brothers. I imagine that would be weird. I think homosexuality wasn’t taboo in ancient Greece, I’m not entirely sure though I may need to do more research on that. So there could be some homophobia to the jokes, but I don’t think that’s the case for everyone. It certainly wasn’t for me. It could also be lgbt+ fans wanting to see more gay stuff in the story. Gay shipping isn’t uncommon after all.

I don’t think everyone who talks about the Manwhore au has no problem joking about sa. There can be many reasons why someone may enjoy a concept in media. You don’t know. Like how women are criticized for rape fantasies. I watched a documentary about sex once (I can’t remember which one this was in now) and there was a whole segment about the rape fantasy, discussing why this is an appeal to some women. It did not mean these women want to be raped of course. Part of it could come from a culture of feeling pressure to not experience any sexual feelings, so the scenario allowed them to experience something without feeling guilty about it. There isn’t always a clear explanation for why someone can find something sexy.

I think this started as a joke, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there were some who wanted something sexy in their Epic fan experience. I mean, having read the Odyssey in school (twice actually) I did not expect I would want to see Odysseus in such a scenario. But then I saw one sexy fanart of him with others and cough I ended up liking it more than I expected. Those who have seen my reblogs on this tag know heh.

There’s also the infidelity notion. I feel like given the situation, Penelope would understand. I also saw some comments that they could be poly, which is a concept I like for this. I’ve also seen mention that human relationships with gods have ended up tragically for the humans involved. I don’t think everyone who listens to Epic knows about that. I didn’t. But again, this goes back to it being fantasy. People enjoying picturing it the way they want to. It doesn’t have to be accurate to the myths. It’s fanfiction/au.

I think the infidelity notion to it didn’t bother me as much as others because in the original, he wasn’t faithful. Sorry for Odyssey spoilers I guess. Anyways, I was already used to him being a cheater. Although the one with Circe may match more with the coercion along the lines of ‘sleep with me for your crew’. The knife that’s been shown in some animatics wasn’t in the original. It’s been a while since I’ve read it so I’m not entirely sure about how that went down.

Referring back to if Odysseus wants it even if he was the one who offered (sorry if I’m all over the place with this, I have a lot of thoughts.) Seducing foes doesn’t necessarily mean he didn’t want it. There’s a character in a Sanders Sides roleplay I was in named Remy (Sleep), whose rp version was created/and played by the wonderful @queroze , who was proclaimed by them to be a manslut. His go-to to get out of situations, if he saw it was a fit strategy, was to seduce. Sure, he got into situations that weren’t great, but often he was the active one in the seducing. I wouldn’t say his go-to being to seduce meant it wasn’t always consensual. In fact, there’s many descriptions and some statements from Que themselves saying Remy loved bringing pleasure to his partners.

Then there’s the mention of the unlikeliness of the scenario actually happening. I don’t think this matters that much to be honest. It’s fandom enjoyment. Who cares if people want to enjoy something that doesn’t seem likely in canon? I personally couldn’t see seduction working, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t find the concept entertaining. Sure people shouldn’t insist it could occur to the creators. But aside from that, it doesn’t affect you. Enjoying fan spaces is way more fun if we let things stay peaceful.

I kinda want to write a fanfic now that adjusts to some of the critiques I’ve seen of this au. I know I said I probably wouldn’t, but I got inspired while planning this heh.

[54625]

I'm not sure if this is the end for the QSMP, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were shut down soon after this.

The eggs have been the lifeblood of the server since they were introduced, and having some of them permanently gone from the server is devastating for so many reasons, and bodes terribly for the future of this project. My optimism has run out. I will still wait for updates but I have no hope.

However, I wanted to write a piece for the community here on Tumblr. I know we're all very emotional right now, because while we have no confirmation that the QSMP will permanently close, we now have good reason to assume there might just be no other clear path out of this.

To the community:

Do not feel like you have to stop loving the server and everything it created. Do not stop creating art. Do not stop sharing why you loved the characters and the story and the world.

To completely boycott everything QSMP, you are discrediting the incredible work that the admins put into the server purely out of passion and the kindness of their hearts. Do not waste their sacrifices. Talk about the server and everything they did for it, give them recognition, let them know we love and appreciate all the time and care they poured into this project. Thank them by caring about their work that they put so much of themselves into.

To completely boycott everything QSMP, you are ignoring the beautiful friendships it created between content creators who otherwise would never have met, and the way it ignited such a fierce determination to learn about others' cultures in them. You are forgetting how much these streamers strived to tell engaging, relatable, fun stories, by themselves or with each other, and to have their fans talk about how much they liked their newest lore. You are refusing to acknowledge the effort put in by everyone on the project to tell amazing stories through the language barrier.

And to completely boycott the QSMP, you are denying yourself the fact that you loved this server; the eggs, the streamers, the stories, the cultural events, the laughter, the sadness, the friendships, the ship ships, the builds, the mods, the languages. You are part of this server for enjoying it's wonderful vitality and beauty and hilarity. As a community, we all are.

I have had my gripes with the QSMP fanbase, as anyone has gripes with the dysfunctional mad household they live in, but at the end of the day, I love it so much. This has been my first time actually being part of a fandom; interacting with people and sharing my art and my ideas, getting into silly debates and arguments, running my mouth off more than I should. I love this bizarre toxic fandom for all of it's worth; I love the fanfic writers (even if I think their characterisation is terrible), I love the fanartists (even if they give Pac those yellow scleras that always make me think of jaundice), I love the live bloggers (even if they clog up the main tag), I love the people who write analysis, the people who make animations and animatics, the people who webweave, and all the other things people in this fandom do to interact with the media we all collectively love and bond over.

We do not need to let this be the end of our community, as we can still share our admiration for the hard work put into this project, lift each other up, express praise where it is warranted.

And we can talk to each other, we can vent about how this has negatively effected us (provided we tag it appropriately 👁️👁️) and respond in kind to those seeking someone to speak to who relates.

The QSMP taught us the value of communication. While behind the scenes, it itself did not abide by it's own rules, we can. The QSMP itself is not the figurehead of communication; the content creators and the fans it sent this message to are. We can be an example of what the QSMP should have stood for.

I do not love the deeply flawed execution of the QSMP, but with my whole heart I love the idea; the ambition, the goal. It was noble. It, to some extent, worked.

It united communities.

Let it unite ours.

[forgettable-au]

How did you envision 'slipping through my fingers' to work with Forgettable?? I LOVE LOVE LOVE that song and when i make the animatic thing of it I REALLY wanna do it justice

I might start rambling about this so I'll add a keep reading lol

OKAY SO I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THAT SONG FOR THIS AU FOR SOOOOOO LONG

Gonna use this as my chance to talk about it lol

Okay so, it's definitely from Sans POV!

The very first part could be about leaving for work, Wingdings is probably working from very early in the morning! Sans takes it more easy

and like "The feeling that I'm losing her forever. And without really entering her world" OH MY GOD THAT PART

IT WORKS SO WELL

He actually is losing him forever soon

Sans still doesn't fully understand what Wingdings thinks, which must be frustrating

"Slipping through my finger all the time" OUGHHH HE IS SLIPPING THROUGH HIS FINGERS

AND THEN "each time I think I'm close to knowing. She keeps on growing" Sans might think he's close to comprehending things, but Wingdings keeps changing and surprising him and it's at a faster pace everytime (until he's changed so much he's like a different person...and also at some point he becomes Papyrus, that also happens)

YOU GUYS HAVE TO UNDERSTAND,,, THEY'RE THE SAME AGE BUT SANS REALLY DOES SEE WINGDINGS AS HIS YOUNGER BROTHER,,,

I mean, he's always been taking care of him, helping him communicate, sticking with him through school, college, the lab

The fact that Dings is so far away from his grasp/understanding is AUGH

Why did I make this AU so self-indulgent, it is SO angsty in just the way that hits me hard LMAO Idk as someone with a little sibling, brother!Gaster hurts me more than father!Gaster

You've heard about monsters getting a sense of deja vu when seeing the human

Now ...what about Sans getting a sense of premonition about what's gonna happen?

This part would definitely be about their wish to be on the surface someday and all the other dreams they had

Some of them they did (getting that job at the lab), but most they didn't (seeing the real stars)

I envision this part as the last happy thing that happened before the incident! A little group photo! Wish you could freeze the picture? Wish things could stay this way forever? WELL, I'M SORRY BUT WE ALL KNOW THAT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN!

Time is about to play a very silly game! (also this is so fitting with Gaster doing weird time things, maybe he is the funny tricks of time)

I obviously can't say what the incident is or how it plays out... because... that would be a huge spoiler... to the people reading this, you'll need to use your imagination!

Then there's the whole guitar part! Love that part! I imagine in the animatic I'm gonna make about this someday that there will be a shot of Sans' arm trying to reach one last time... sigh... The day I finally make this animatic it will be amazing...

But I really can't rn because spoilers! THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU GUYS CAN'T TRY TO DO ONE I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT

Then we can have two, or more idk

OKAY! That last part of the song mirrors the first part of the song!

But this time!!!!! IT'S PAPYRUS!!! Leaving early In the morning for royal guard duties :D gotta calibrate those puzzles early!

AND THAT'S IT!!!!! obviously avoiding spoilers! but OH MY GOD

I SWEAR THIS SONG WAS ONE OF THE SONG THAT INSPIRED ME TO MAKE THIS AN ACTUAL COMIC BECAUSE I NEEDED TO MAKE THAT ANIMATIC AND FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND UJFIEF

What a girl is willing to do just so people can understand her silly angst animatic c: a whole comic

[dock57]

{I’m going to blame Tumblr for this one- but this post WAS a reply to one of the Asks I got but, it seem to have remove the ask itself all together? So if the writing is odd, that’s because this was originally an ask reply.}

[I actually been wanting to talk about the animation of Monkey Wrench for some time. Apologize to the low quality video, Tumblr has a 5 MB size limit...

I record the beginning snip of when we first meet Shrike, because the detail to detail and the flow of movement in this scene is one of my favorites.

There are many reasons why I love Monkey Wrench, the animation is one of the main reasons why I got into this show.

At the time, I was really getting into the Indie Animation episodes that people were making, and majority of them being good, there was not one I saw that really spoke to me and what I enjoy. So when my friend mentioned Monkey Wrench, I am BLOWN away that this series was an Indie Animation and not studio created.

I know I saw Glitch Studio TADC before Monkey Wrench, and I love that one very much as well, but 3D animation isn't always my preferred style. Don't take that the wrong way, it has awesome animation and a very fun style, but I tend to be drawn towards 2D styles, as 2D artwork is just what I enjoy!

I could go on and on about the style of the show, but I want to try and stay focus on the animation itself to keep this post a tad shorter. I will say, I do not know a whole lot about animation and its terms, as its a spotty field I done little of.

However, I love the use of "short cuts" you might refer it to that is use to make the animation so slick and clean. From using smears to flashing, it really helps the animation to continue having this flow and consistency without needing to animate every little detail or movement. That shouldn't be a surprise though, as a lot of the artists who work on Monkey Wrench have great animation experience, but of course, Zeruel as well who has been doing animation for a long time- has a lot of experience in the industry too. The series has great timing and movement.

Like with episode four, I honestly forgot that the episode was suppose to be more of an "animatic hybrid." The animation was needed in where it had to be, on scenes that were focused, such as the fight scenes and when characters were speaking. If there were times if animation was "choppy" I never saw it or know a moment where the quality felt like a downgrade. It was still just as inviting and interesting like the last three episodes.

Also loves Zeruel's obsession with "floating" and "flowy" animation, such as the sheets in this snip, or when Beebs and Shrike are on their ship and the hair and tentacles on them are moving due to having zero gravity. I actually become quite memorized by that myself.

When I describe Monkey Wrench to others, I always say its like an early 2000s cartoon love letter, as in it reminds me of cartoons from that time, but, better. A refresh is sometimes another way I would describe it.

I will say that doing animation alone is. So time consuming and takes SO SO MUCH WORK. I done a few short like, few seconds animatics and my goodness, it took me a few days to finish those (though, this is coming from someone who also has ZERO animation skills as I have yet to take the time to learn it). So doing a full episode? Alone? That's a lot. Its SUPER impressive. Though, not ideal when creating a series... I hope Monkey Wrench continues to receive more funding so the animation can be distributed more, as well where the artists are paid nicely too!

The passion is incredible... So I hope that more can join along the "Monkey Wrench" crew and continue animating and creating the series! Monkey Wrench is by far, the series I really really would love to see continue on as I am very invested in its story and characters.]

[anneangel]

Should I Kiss, Marry or Kill?

I'm seriously torn between killing or kissing the person who introduced me to Good Omens as if it were a romantic comedy show with a satirical religious lore, like, angels and demons in love, while trying to stop the armageddon/apocalypse. Which technically it should be, it should be a harmless show, so why am I crying? Where's my comedy? I prefer comedies over tragedies. I was promised a comedy, where is it?

The season one is all about "let's stop the armageddon while we don't talk about the elephant in the room, which is how much we love each other without being able to use those terms for 6,000 years". And season two is all about "let's show everyone how married we are, without actually being married, until heaven decides to bring the 'second coming' and restart the apocalypse, and we fight because not all of us can go to heaven to solve the problem!".

Now I'm crying, for almost a month, and trying to make my brain understand S2 E6 so far (I had to write a FanFiction and it still didn't work out, It only made me cry more, and now I only read something that creates a post-S2 plot or that doesn't take S2 into account, AUs). That is, until the season three coming and it's about "we're in love, we're married, we know it now, also everyone knows it now, we get along again, and we solve the apocalypse problem, happy ending". I just don't know where to find the patience to wait for that to happen, if that happens!

I'm suffering! Yes, I want to kill whoever introduced me to this Show as if it were a comedy.

But also, I want to kiss, because have you seen what a gifted fandom this is? The quality of the discussions? The quality of the fanarts? The fan comics? The animatics? The fanfictions? The cosplays? The creativity? All fanworks? The quality of the humor? The quality of reception? The people in this fandom are gold!

I'm in tears, and I'm smiling, at the same time! I'm a mess now.

Kill, Marry or Kiss?

[mystic-orb88]

HAZBIN TRAILER OBSERVATIONS!!

Okay, so this shot tells us a lot about the geography of The Pride Ring. We see that the Hotel’s wayy out, really sending the message that the sheer concepts of hope, redemption, and everything it stands for is outcasted and rejected by the rest of the city. The Clock Tower is in the heart of the city, showing how it is the main cog in the machine. The Porn Studios building on the left, poooossibly the Cannibal Colony or Rosie’s Emporium on the lower right. There’s also a lovely balanced distinction of modernity shown in the absence or presence of neon lights dotting the buildings throughout various districts. This shows that the Sinners prefer to live in conditions similar to those of when they were alive. Heaven, as well as a weird red moon are also visible.

This looks like Cherri’s attacking the Hotel with one Hell of a pyrotechnic display (Seriously, how does one attain such a massive singular smoke bomb??) Possibly because she is aware that Sir Pentious is taking sanctuary there. Luckily Alastor’s Radio Tower looks like it came through unscathed.

Looks like Alastor and Charlie are taking a stroll in the same park in the Prequel comic.

I love how everyone looks so fake and nervous and then Razzle and Dazzle, Charlie’s lil’ protectors/assistants/plushies are just looking so pure and adorable. Actually zoom in on their faces, do it. Also, as soon as you see Husks face, the frame can officially get worse. Also there’s a bag of drugs or.. something on the table, I’m guessing PCP knowing Angel. It bears resemblance to the bag in the pilot.

It’s also here, on the right side of Lucifer. So we now know some sort of celebration was at the Hotel, and Lucifer visited. Decorations are still up.

Travis. What the Hell’s he doin’ there?? Love to see him back for a gag. Also, someone try and read that script. There’s a memo or mail box on the side that is overflowing. This building looks similar to a setting in R2NinjaTurtle’s Valentino Board Animatic. Same with Vox’s Tv Screen Lair Thingy.

Nice shot from the ‘Happy Day in Hell’ Song number of the Cannibal town with a lovely late 1800s-early 1900s theme. Bring back this fashion, or like a cool, modern-inspired version. Please. Also, there’s a lil’ Chimney Sweep who looks like this very Dick Van Dyke-inspired O.C. I drew a while ago (maybe it is him, you decide).

Alastor took the trouble of talking to this nice overlord chap while filming this nice man who is in the process of committing unspontaneous combustion.

This shrunken voodoo head is here, while Alastor and a nice lady with a dead fox scarf and an oversized version of Voldemort’s wand repurposed as a cane are in the background.

Just appreciation for how perfectly this frame captures their personalities.

Charlie: You’re doing awesome, my script is great, isn’t it? I’m so happy at this moment.

Vaggie: I’m too tired for this crud.

Angel: I’ve read some real interesting scripts in my time but none as terrible as this one. Also someone get me outta this coat, it’s filthy an’ it reeks of the 40’s.

Niffty: *gremlin* Seriously, stop looking at him like that girl.

Husk: How the f*** did I end up here?? It’ll all be over soon.

Alastor. How to sit like a sir while plotting unavoidable carnage.

Pentious: Lollypop, lollypop oohh lolly lollypop, lolly pop, lolly pop- WHERE DID HIS HAT EYE GO?? WHY IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT IT?? IS IT LIKE AN EXTENSION OF HIMSELF, LIKE HOW ALASTOR CAN MAKE HIS MICROPHONE DISAPPEAR UP HIS SLEEVE??

Nothing much about this one, it’s just one of my favourite frames in the trailer. I absolutely love how expressively and awesomely animated Alastor is here. Really captures his theatrical tone. And we get a snippet of Rosie’s voice!! Also the song is FIREE. It will hit so hard when it comes out and further context is given.

[lemonycranberries]

there's a bunch of parallels to be made between wicked and mo dao zu shi, as many people have already pointed out (see: these reddit posts, these animatics). but i was thinking about how wangxian's roles in comparison to elphaba and glinda can be considered to reverse over time. i mostly see people comparing wwx to elphaba and lwj to glinda, and sure, there's a lot of comparisons to be made there, but try to consider another angle.

in the cloud recesses, when they're teenagers, lan wangji is a disciplined, hardworking, intelligent student with a lot of pressure put on him to honor his family and their reputation, beloved by his teachers but witout any friends around his age, except perhaps for his brother; much like elphaba. meanwhile, wei wuxian isn't exactly the most dedicated disciple, and breaks quite a few rules without caring about it, which doesn't exactly make his teachers love him, but at the same time, he's popular and loved by his colleagues (who mostly dislike lan wangji, either finding him a sort of teacher's pet or being afraid of him); in that sense, he's more like galinda (if we're looking through a queer galinda lens, we can also say both characters are very entrenched in comphet and very oblivious to their same-sex attraction, with galinda supposedly being a boy-crazy, girly girl and wei ying being very flirtatious towards women, and claiming to have been with many of them without even considering the most remote possibility that he could like men too).

but then, let's skip to both pairings in their adulthood. wei wuxian, that formerly popular, charming individual, is now the yiling patriarch, a previously very talented, advanced young man who's considered different from others in his society because of his methods, something that used to make people admire him and then became his downfall; he started to be hunted and blamed for all evil that ever happened, becoming the biggest public enemy in the cultivation world, and a legend of sorts, nearly a mythical figure, the represention of evil itself. at the same time, despite being warned by those who loved him, he didn't back down in doing what he thought was right (also defending a vulnerable and marginalized group that was being ostracized and blamed for doing evil things - the remaining wens - like the animals were), officially cutting all ties with the respected, traditional cultivation circles and running away to the burial mounds, very aware that this would make him be hated and turned into a villain. eventually, after losing people he loved, he started actually leaning into this evil version of him that was publicly known, comitting so called "evil" deeds while stricken by pain, and soon after, he died on hiw own, while the entire world celebrated his death and talked about how he deserved it because of how he'd done certain things, a lof of them not being true (note: both pieces of media begin this way, with the viewers/readers being introduced to the story with celebrations of the main character's death - and in both cases, said character wasn't actually - or permanently - dead). i don't even have to say how extremely similar to elphaba's story his story is in that sense (and you could still find more similarities, like both characters being morally gray or both characters being very attached to their siblings and going at extreme lenghts to protect them; i could go on). now let's look at lan wangji, who used to be that stubborn student disliked by many of his peers. in the current time, he has become hanguang-jun, a strong authority figure, respected by everyone in the cultivation world and widely considered an example of righteousness and Good. always very put together, always elegant, always where the chaos is; he's often resolving conflicts and is looked upon and admired as someone trustworthy and strongly virtuous. he was offered the chance to join wei wuxian in what he was doing at the burial mounds, years ago, but he declined, which led to him only being capable of helplessly watching from afar as the person who mattered the most to him grew to be more and more misunderstood by society at large, and consequentially, more and more hated - and persecuted. he was then forced to watch as the entire world celebrated the death of said person, never learning the truth about what had actually happened and who he actually was. does this remind you of anyone?

so basically, what i mean is that teen wei wuxian, a popular, likeable, enjoyer-of-life (or perhaps dancer-through-life) galinda, became a brilliant, but villanaized, ostracized and misunderstood wicked witch, like elphaba; while young lan wangji, a disciplined, introverted, hard-working elphaba, grew to be a respected and admired authority figure who was actually in deep suffering because of the way he lost the person he loved - not unlike our gal glinda, the good.