#but this is something dc fans do to Help each other

[secretlythatsme]

So, I feel like knowing this might help some dp fans in the dpxdc space.

The dcu is a multiverse yeah? So there's a lot of different canons, lot of different characters, lot of different and contradicting characterization. In the dc fandom, there tend to be smaller, more contained fandoms of specific canons. So there's a young justice fandom, a harley quinn show fandom, a rebirth fandom, and so on and so forth. Most of these fandoms are centered on specific runs, specific shows/movies, or specific time frames.

The reason dc fans do things like this is because it helps fans. Fans are able to interact with the canon they want to interact with and can ignore everything else. They can also interact with other fans who just want to engage with that specific canon. Obviously, these smaller fandoms still co-exist and collide every now and then, but it still helps to label things because then you don't get into arguments like "superman hates clones!" "no he doesn't!". it's like. they're both right. And they don't fight as long as things are loosely labeled because now both fans know which superman they're talking about.

I'm using the superman example because I saw it in the dpxdc fandom recently and it honestly made me laugh because dc fans haven't had that debate in like ten years. Because we label things! If we're talking about yj superman, then we say that! We don't just go "ah yes superman. the guy who famously hates clones" cause now other fans have a right to jump in and be like "what the hell are you talking about". If we specify that we're talking about yj, they go "ah okay carry on" instead.

Since this fandom is largely just dp fans, I'm not surprised that you guys are having these same old arguments. Fandom culture is important! And if you're going to be talking about and engaging with dc, then being aware of our fandom culture too will really help in the long run!

Anyway, my point is, get into the habit of specifying which version of a character you're talking about. And no, don't do that whole "this is a crossover so it's not based on any dc canon" because yes it is. That idea of a character you have in your head? Everything you know about them? It came from somewhere. Please, for your own sake, get used to specifying which canon you're pulling from, and I promise you won't have as many people yelling "ooc" at you.

(for example, a lot of dp fans here have only read the batfam webtoon. that's cool! that's great, but the characterization is very simplified and not completely accurate to most of the comics. but if you say "hey this post/fic/art is based on the webtoon/i'm using the webtoon as my source/etcetc" dc fans will understand that. dp fans seem to think dc fans are bad at interacting with a multiverse despite the fact that dc has been like this for decades. we're good at this! we know the dcu is confusing and contradicting! that's why we do the things we do - to help keep fights to a minimum. little fandom "rules" like this came about naturally as fans got used to each other more. and i have no doubt that things like this will help the dpxdc fandom if you learn and implement them!)

[introspectivememories]

tim and bernard who break up and it's nothing big, no one cheated or anything. it's just their lifestyles didn't work out well together. tim cannot give up vigilantism currently and bear cannot handle the level of danger tim puts himself in. and on the other hand, tim cannot handle the fact that bear chooses to run into danger as an emt bc he already worries about everything but now he has to worry if he'll find his boyfriend convulsing from fear gas in a random alley but also bear who felt the life drain out of darla cannot stand the thought of not helping people and runs headfirst into dangerous situation after dangerous situation hoping that every person he saves can somehow make up for the fact that he could not save darla.

(he very pointedly does not think about the fact that there was nothing he could do because if he thinks about that, he'll spiral until they have to lock him in arkham too)

and so they break up but they were tim & bernard in high school and when they started dating they balanced out the worst of each other and they became tim&bernard. and everyone who knows them, knows that they're better together but they cant be together, they refuse actually because they cannot lose another person to the violence of gotham and by the time they figure out that they cant work together as long as the other is an emt or vigilante, it's too late for both them. they've already left too many pieces of themselves in each other.

tim still knows what bear means when he says "tim" in that exasperated voice. tim still goes boneless when he hears bear say "baby" in that firm tone. bear can still read tim like a book. he still knows the right way to massage tim's neck so that tim can go to sleep. everyone at the first responders gala knows not to bother ceo drake-wayne and senior emt dowd when they're talking.

(and if they're standing a little too close to each other than what is normal, who are they to judge? everyone knows that dowd and drake-wayne have history)

and if everyone on the night shift has caught red robin with his head tucked into the crook of emt dowd's neck as emt dowd runs a soothing hand up and down the vigilante's back, well then, they just quietly back away.

(after all, dowd's one of like, five, emts that can get the bats to receive medical treatment so if turning a blind eye to whatever the fuck they have going on is what allows them to give back to their heroes, then the night shift will do it every time)

and of course, tim and bear are practical people. they loved (love) each other sure, but when your lives are fundamentally incompatible, well, you cant get too stuck on the what-ifs, that's for sure. and so they do find love with other people and yeah, maybe it's not what they expected love to be when they first fell in love with each other. it's not the bubbly, stomach-swoopy, cant stop grinning, feeling that permeated tim&bernard's early days or the i Know you/you Know me that was their middle or the quiet despair that was their end but it is contentment. and in a life with as many losses as theirs, contentment is something they hold dearly

and they're happy! truly! but sometimes, at galas when they're making each other snort champagne out their noses or in darkened alleyways when their clothes are both stained with blood or at rallies for stricter gun regulations in gotham where they both sit too close to each other, fingers enclosed around each other in a death grip, when the presenters inevitably bring up grieves

(worst school shooting in gotham in decades, there's blood on their hands and blood in their mouths and darla is dead in between both of them and there is a chasm so wide that they are screaming to get their voices across and she will always be dead and maybe this had always been the problem that she is dead and there is no coming back from that and that there is blood on their hands and blood in their mouth and blood on their han-)

but sometimes, most especially on opposite sides of the street, as life pulls them in different directions, just sometimes, they see each other and just for a second, nothing too long, the flap of a hummingbird's wings, the time it takes to blink, an electron's orbital, they look at each other and for the briefest moment, blue on brown, a barely noticeable stutter in their steps, the space between heartbeats, because this is all they will give themselves because they do not dwell on what-ifs or what-could-have-beens, or what-should-have-beens, or delusions of a softer world, their eyes meet and they think to themselves, god, in another life, i would have really liked just doing laundry and taxes with him.

[fandomtrumpshate]

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[briarmoon1015]

I think I’ve already confessed that I’m not a big birdflash fan, but there is something I really gotta point out because it’s bothering me.

I see a lot of people use specific comic panels to try and show how close these two characters are, but completely miss the whole point of the comic itself.

For example, I’ve seen a lot of people use panels from The Flash 1987 210, in which Wally reflects on his relationship with dick.

The problem with this is they are literally cutting out the next part of the page that explains that they have drifted apart

Wally is extremely different from dick, and once he takes up the flash mantle, it becomes clear that these two characters are on different paths. Wally wants to uphold the legacy of the flash, dick desperately wants to escape the legacy of Batman. Wally has a wife, three children, and a stable job. Dicks life changes at a moments notice, one minute he’s broke, one minute he’s rich, sometimes he has a job as a police officer, sometimes he’s dating one of his many red headed girlfriends, he’s the opposite of stable.

And that’s not to say the different characters can’t be friends or be together, but as this same comic shows, these two often struggle to understand one another once adults

Wally, after zoom caused his wife Linda to have a miscarriage, went to Hal as the spectre for help, which no one liked, including Dick. He is somewhat miffed Wally didn’t come to him, be he also sides with Bruce about how reckless and stupid the action was

He definitely empathizes with Wally’s situation, but he’s not really there to give support. Later on, dick does start to get the point, and the two take down gorilla grod. Dick apologies for his actions and both agree to stay in touch more. Obviously every good friendship is going to have some moments of tension and disagreement, but I think this really shows why Wally and Dick fell apart as adults.

And this really is the crux of why I’m personally not a big fan or birdflash. These two characters are inherently different and it’s so rare for me to see any birdflash content that acknowledges this. They can be together in a way that acknowledges and builds off of this, but it really hasn’t been done.

More importantly, I’ve noticed that to make burdflash work, a lot of fans completely erase Wally’s character to ignore these differences. His own goals, his own backstory, his own relationships, are just gone so he can be with dick. There is never any acknowledgment of the canon of Wally’s own motivations, such as living up to the flash mantle, or any mention of his connections to characters outside of Dick.

Even more so, I think erasing the presence of his wife and kids from his life so he can be with dick is really hard on the character. Linda is so essential in Wally’s life. She is the character in which speedsters learn the importance of having a lightning rod. She is the one to often push Wally to keep going. His kids redefined his life. He literally broke the source wall in order to keep them in his life. These are essential relationships that are just erased from Wally’s life.

As someone who truly prefers Wally over Dick, it hurts to see a potentially good pairing erase the good aspects of Wally like this. There is plenty of erasure done to other dc characters because of how popular the Bats are, and this ship, at least to me, is one of the worst examples. These characters are different, and often times it makes it hard for them to understand each other. Ignoring that issue doesn’t make the ship good in my eyes.

Anyways, I really don’t want to poop on birdflash as a whole. It is by no means a bad ship, I personally just don’t really like it. It has a lot of qualities that bother me. Despite all of this though, I do love seeing people’s art of it and I actually do think it can work a bit better when they are young and apart of the teen titans. I also know as a halbarry shipper I’m throwing rocks in a glass house lmao. But please ship what you like, I really don’t care, I just needed to shout into the void about my feelings around it :)

[necrotic-nephilim]

@sasheneskywalker i love when you enable me to ramble about things because oh my god do i have thoughts.

so recently, i made a post discussing the phenomena of DC x DP and DC x MLB crossovers and why they exist and part of that post was discussing how largely speaking, at least half, if not more of the Batfamily fandom doesn't read the comics. if they interact with canon DC material, it's adaptations that are their own sequestered universes and oftentimes not remotely comic accurate or seeking to be. the most obvious example is the Young Justice cartoon. i'm adding a cut to this post because it just got so long i'm so sorry.

a lot of times, when people are discussing the "why" of this oversaturation of fanon-only fandom, they blame Wayne Family Adventures. and i think, to a point, i agree WFA is responsible for a boom in this fandom. but as someone who's been in the fandom long before we had WFA, to me it's the other way around. WFA was DC's way of meeting the demand for this easy-to-get-into, easy-to-consume content about the Batfamily that predicates itself on the comics just enough to be vaguely the same characters, but has a more sitcom, slice-of-life sort of vibe so DC could profit off of this section of the fanbase that otherwise wasn't consuming its primary material. and well, it's definitely worked. not only that, but i have a weird theory that the decline in the MCU also led to the rise in the Batfamily fandom. when you consider the fan content that made the MCU popular within fandom, it's that 2012 "they all live in Avengers Tower and Thor is eating poptarts and Clint is in the vents and there are movie nights every Friday" sort of vibe. those were the fics that were a hallmark of the fandom. and as the MCU has strayed from well... quality content in general, but specifically well-thought-out crossover content where characters can have their own arcs but also exist in a wider story where they clearly care about each other, that fandom was sort of homeless. so where do you go, if you like a superhero found family where you can have villains for angst but also stick them all in one big family-like home for silly crack and have a plethora of options for gay ships? well. you go to the Batfamily. if you write a crack/fluff Batfamily genfic with silly vibes and low stakes instead of say, a fic about a very specific comic issue even if it's a popular comic, you're *going* to get more traction for the former. because the fanbase largely just isn't reading the comics.

and i feel... complicated about this. because on one hand, Don't Like Don't Read has been a tenet of my fandom experience. i'm very pro-fandom and that includes fandom content i don't like. and to an extent, i do think this sort of should apply to Batfamily fanon. i enjoy having my moments with other comic purists, giggling over exceptionally painful OOC headcanons or even facepalming in pain over some content but it is on me to not interact with that content. you don't make fandom a better place by being hostile to fans who engage with canon in ways you don't approve of. and frankly? we as comic readers are not going to get non-comic fans to read the comics by being asshats to them. no one is going to want to pick up any comic if we get a superiority complex about it. and also, i feel like we're all lying to ourselves a little bit insisting comics are so, so easy to get into. they're not. we can just all agree, they're really not. i've been single-handedly helping my sister get into comics, specifically Wonder Woman and no matter how simple i make it, i watch her get frustrated trying to understand what pre-Crisis and post-Crisis and New-52 and Flashpoint and all these things mean and what a retcon vs a reboot is and what a Crisis Event is and what the hell Diana's current backstory even *is*. sure, you can give someone a beginner list of comics to start with and slowly dip their toes in the water but sooner or later, *something* is going to confuse them. comics as a medium straight up aren't going to be everyone's cup of tea. and if someone *just* wants to read silly fluffy fanfiction about the Batfamily, i can't entirely begrudge them for not wanting to take the hours and hours out of their day to understand this medium. it's not an accessible medium to get into. "read this and this, but this run is out of print and this run wasn't collected in trades at all but also make sure you read that event in order and this is a good comic but the backstory in it is retconned and you *have* to read this it's so important but it's also really bad because the author kind of sucks" sounds. ridiculous for someone who like. just wants to read some stuff about Nightwing. sometimes, we all make reading comics sort of sound like a chore, not a hobby.

so my point is, i do extend some grace to Batfamily fanon for existing. i think my biggest gripe is, as i said in my other post, misuse of tags (if you're not creating content about comics, maybe you don't need the comics fandom tag on Ao3, just the all media types umbrella tag) and my far bigger gripe: when panels are taken out of context to support fanon only headcanons. if i could impart *anything* onto the Batfamily fandom as a comic fan it'd be this: if you haven't *read* the comic, don't spread the panel. if you don't even know what comic it's *from*, don't spread the panel. it's fine to use comic panels to discuss your headcanons, but so often i see someone spreading a comic panel from a comic they haven't read, and when asked where it's from, they can't source it. a silly example that comes to mind is a post going around, taking a panel where Dick, in his internal monologue goes "here comes the sun. do do do do." and the post is claiming it's from him getting buried alive. when that panel comes from Nightwing (1996) #140, and he gets buried alive in Nightwing (1996) #127, two completely different moments frankensteined together. if you're going to not read the comics, that's completely fine, but unless you're sure of the source and the context, panels shouldn't be spread around. i'm sick of this specifically happening to Red Robin (2009), with ppl claiming Tim has totally killed people because he blew up some of Ra's' bases, when those panels within context, make it clear he gave everyone time to escape. and in a later arc in that very comic, Tim grapples with the idea of murdering Captain Boomerang, and *specifically chooses not to*, because he doesn't agree with murder, even against the person who has hurt him the most. if you'd like to write fanfiction where Tim is pro-murder and has done some sketch things, i'm totally on board and would probably like to read it. but there's no need to pretend it's canon from a few panels you saw out of context.

beyond that, i think it's not *entirely* correct to say that fanon is harmless. whenever i see very WFA-positive posts, they often default to the argument that WFA is fun and silly, and comic fans are killjoys for not liking it. which. i think is complicated because the issue is, WFA and fanon don't exist in a vacuum. if you like WFA power to you, i don't think it's the worst thing ever, but i do think it's degrading to these characters because honestly? they feel incompetent in the webtoon. it's one thing if WFA was solely a slice-of-life sort of deal, just having silly episodes where Bruce is taking on a PTA mom or they're all fighting for the last cookie. but when WFA attempts to take on more serious plots with these characters, it *fundamentally* falls flat in understanding them. i get it, Bruce comforting Jason having a panic attack because a noise reminded him of the crowbar felt cute in a microcosm, but i'm so serious when i say that storyline destroyed how like. half of this fandom understands Jason Todd's relationship to his trauma. it doesn't understand how he reacts when he's triggered, what coping mechanisms he seeks out, and how he would handle Bruce comforting him. even if i can believe for a brief moment Jason *would* be triggered by something like that, him running and trying to hide and then getting a hug from Bruce to make it okay is just. painful. WFA needs everything to be wrapped up in a nice, neat little bow. so even when it starts to tackle interesting concepts, it makes them fall flat with its need to be soft, low stakes, hurt/comfort. there was a two-parter episode that dealt with the complicated mutual hatred/jealousy between Tim and Damian that *almost* really interested me because for once, it felt like the webtoon wanted to explore canon messy dynamics. but of course, it had to be fixed with one conversation and a hug. you don't mend the *years* of issues these characters have like that. WFA isn't in character because these characters are hyperbole cartoonified versions of themselves to fit within the medium and be a cute happy family.

because that right there, is the crux of it. the Batfamily fanon seeks to simplify the Batfamily and force them into a nuclear family. there are so many fantastic posts on here discussing how the nuclear family-ification of the Batfam is eroding decades worth of complex histories so i won't go too far into that. but what i will say is that there's this need, in the Batfamily fandom, for the Batfamily to exist as a unit. they are a *family*. (honestly i think calling it the Batfamily is a misnomer and has been for years but we're in too deep now.) they exist to each other first, and any teams or friends they have come secondary to this family unit. you can *specifically* see this demonstrated in what headcanons are becoming popular these days. i have an entire lengthy meta in my drafts about how i *loathe* the "the Batfamily meets the Justice League" genre of fanfic because it makes no *sense*. in order to have this genre of fic exist, you must operate under the assumption that no one in the League, or adjacent to the League, knows the Batfamily exists and are thus utterly shocked to discover Batman has kids. and to make *that* work, you have to strip *every single Batfamily member* of such important dynamics and friendships so you can lock them all in Gotham for their whole lives. Dick can't have the Titans, Tim can't have Young Justice, Duke & Cass can't have the Outsiders, Jason can't have the Outlaws, Damian can't have the Supersons, Babs can't have the Birds of Prey, and so on. because if they had these relationships, they would be known to the League. the Batfamily fandom doesn't care about this, it's just "silly fanfiction", it's not trying to be serious. but how can you say you like Dick Grayson as a character if you don't understand the Titans *are* his family? at some points of his life, moreso than the Batfamily even is. it is constantly repeated to us in most comics with Dick how much the Titans mean to him. he *needs* them to be who he is. the same extends to every other Batfamily member, most of which have been full League members at this point. but in fanon, that doesn't matter. the Batfamily are a sequestered unit first, and all of those side relationships are secondary and easy to toss away, if it makes your fanfic work better.

and because they have to be a unit first, you have these forced relationships that dump years of actual canon material for the sake of making them get along. the Batfamily fandom has its favorites and well. it's no secret it's usually the boys. Jason and Tim by *far* stand out as fandom faves so, their dynamic is a heavily explored one. it does matter that in canon they don't tend to get along and especially don't see each other as family. what matters is that you can push dynamics onto them. and so fanon gets all twisted up about which Robin Tim actually idolized as a kid (Dick) and what member of the Batfamily is pro-murder but still an older sibling figure to him and looks out for him (Helena, or if you want the dynamic of once tried to harm Tim but they've reconciled, Jean-Paul) in favor of who's the most popular. Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian are always going to be the standouts for popularity, but it's specifically Jason and Tim who are getting fanonized the most. and that's because really, we don't have much canon content of Tim that *isn't* the comics. for Dick you've got Young Justice (tv), for Damian you've got the DCAMU, for Jason you've sort of got the Under The Red Hood movie, but Tim sort of lingers in this limbo. (yes, he's in Young Justce (tv) and Titans (live action) but in neither is he the main character nor given much depth) so, he gets a *lot* projected onto him and has become fanonized. and even with Jason's animated movies, you don't see him interact with Tim, so people build it from the ground up how they want to see it, disregarding of canon comics. i think it's what makes him so popular in the first place- he's malleable into whatever you want or need him to be.

and of course, the fanon ignores other characters in the Batfamily it doesn't know about. i feel like you could create a tier list of Batfamily characters by their popularity, going from the fandom main characters: Tim, Jason, Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Damian. to the underrated: Steph, Duke, Babs, Cass. to the forgotten about unless they're convenient for a story: Kate, the Foxes, Helena Wayne, Carrie, Selina, Harper Row, Maps, Minhkhoa Khan. to the absolutely unknown: Helena Bertinelli, Jean-Paul Valley, Onyx Adams, the Clovers, Julia Pennyworth. it's not lost on me that the ignored characters tend to be women and people of color. which is both a canon and fanon problem, DC will continue adding interesting characters to the Batfamily, play with them for a few years, then drop them to default to the "Batboys" again. and it's a vicious cycle of the fandom only caring about the "Batboys", and thus people entering the fandom via fanon osmosis won't have content about the other characters, therefore, they won't be interested in those characters enough to create it, and it's just this ouroboros consuming itself, no matter how much canon content we have of these other characters. and it's ridiculous just how large the Batfamily is becoming because of this, which is why i'm a pre-Flashpoint fan, because then the Batfamily was contained enough to actually feel like a family with every character having nuances relationships with each other, but i digress because those thoughts could be their own post.

and the thing about fanon is it doesn't exist in a vacuum. DC has started turning the comics to accommodate for what fans are asking for, because fans will beg and beg for content they're not going to consume. Tim Drake: Robin had Tim as a coffee drinker because that's the fanon accepted headcanon. and the resolution of the recent Gotham War arc was for Bruce to buy this new manor for everyone to move in and call him. nevermind that most of these characters have their own homes and have zero reason to be moving in with Bruce. Tim had his marina in Tim Drake: Robin, Dick has Bludhaven, Cass and Steph have their little side of town in Batgirls (2022), and so on. these characters are being forced together as a unit, as one big happy family living together, to appease what non-comic fans want and it's damaging comic relationships. Robin: Knight Terrors saw Jason and Tim team up and working together, which i've seen varying opinions on but i personally despised. their interactions made zero sense for any of their canon history, but it appeases them being this close sibling relationship that fanon acts like they are. also the fears they faced in their respective knight terrors didn't make sense for either character and *only* worked as a moment of bringing them together so they could reassure each other and have this weird dreamscape bonding moment. the canon is bending itself to the will of fanon rather than building on the pre-existing complex relationships. Tim barely even gets along with his most important team in Dark Crisis: Young Justice because it seems the only important relationships the Batfamily can have is with each other. and when we do see them outside of the Batfamily, it only seems to be to relive the glory days like with World's Finest: Teen Titans, instead of developing them as they currently exist. this isn't recent in the comics, it feels like you can trace it back to the New-52, but it does feel a *lot* worse over the recent years. WFA is fine when it exists in its own bubble, but the simple truth is, DC content never exists on its own. the adaptations will reflect back onto the comics. (the damage the Young Justice cartoon has done to some characters should honestly be studied) and so it does frustrate me a bit when fanon-only or adaptation-only fans act like we're being nothing but killjoys for being frustrated with this. since they don't read the comics, they don't see how the comics are suffering as a result of this.

people argue about what's out of character for the comics they don't even read. i'm sorry, but "bad dad Bruce" is consistently canon. that man is just kind of shitty. when you take someone who has the drive he has, who has this need for the Mission first, who needs a teenager in spandex next to him to keep him off the ledge, that guy is sort of going to be a shitty father figure. he just is. not on purpose or with malice, but when you compare him to any other dad in a big DC family, he sure takes the cake. it's why characters like Oliver Queen tend to *really* fucking hate Bruce for how he treats his kids. Bruce loves fiercely, but he doesn't do well with putting that love first. and his love is a controlling one, he is very particular about controlling how others in the Batfamily are "allowed" to operate. it's what drives the wedge between him and Dick, it's why Steph is never a true daughter to him. (besides the reason of her needing to be a love interest to Tim first, anyway-) i've never understood the massive outcry of people reacting to Bruce kinda being shitty in comics they're not reading. there are some moments that get ridiculously OOC with how cartoonishly evil he is (the whole Gotham War arc and that... complicated mess with Jason) but largely if you want sitcom loving nuclear father Bruce, you have to accept that is a fanon thing, not a canon one. the Batfamily being a nuclear family in *general* is fanon. most of the "Batkids" don't actually see Bruce in a particularly fatherly light and begging for moments where he calls them his kids or they call him dad outside of incredibly specific circumstances is just OOC.

it's getting harder and harder to exist peacefully in this fandom it feels like, if you don't comply to the standard fanon has set. i'm happy people are having fun with their blorbos, even if in ways i dislike, but that "harmless fandom fun" does ripple it's way back to canon, eventually. so i end up pretty tangled with my feelings because are fans at fault for DC making these poor decisions? probably not, but it certainly feels like an unfortunate cause-and-effect situation whether at the end of the day, nobody is happy. and of course, i know some fanon-only fans are striving to be more canon accurate and care about canon dynamics more than others, but for them it's always going to be an uphill battle with the above-mentioned out-of-context panels thrown around and ever-pervasive fanon overtaking anything that's truly seeking to be canon compliant. so really, it sometimes feels like we're all losing.

[dannyphantom1234]

Reborn as Dan Phantom.

A fan of the show is reborn as Dan, the evil version of Danny just as he was created— but what no one knew was a fangirl had taken over the body and knew just what to do to help her family that would suffer what she just went through unless she did something to help. So— she creeped towards Clockwork, stole the time medallion, went to the timeline of the original, and immediately took over as big brother figure to help these poor children from suffering the future they would have to endure alone without adult supervision.

She— now he— didn’t care for gender, and just wanted to help and protect his new(ish) family from bad people. What he didn’t know was he was also thrown alongside the dc universe, which was an awesome discovery on his part later on.

Dan— or Dante— as he wished to be called, came to the group with sorrow in his heart as he explained what would happen in the future if Danny cheated on his test, not that it was anyone’s fault but fates. He explained how no one was at fault and it could all be avoided if he could help it.

He took over the ghost fights, and had a long talk with Clockwork about what would happen and his real purpose for being there.

His original timeline was obviously erased, and the only reason he survived was because of the medallion, so later he had to go through ghost magic and make himself his own person, gained a whole butt load of tattoos intertwined with ghost time magic and becomes the next king of the infinite realms after defeating the old guy easily after seeing him beat up his little bro.

Dante became king instead of Danny and took over all the overloaded paperwork along the way.

What he didn’t know, was that he would be summoned because of his status. He really thought the fan fictions were just exaggerating what would happen if he was ever given the position and power. Well, it was all true from what he read.

(I’m making this a Dante/King Phantom x Jason Todd/Red Hood).

He made an actual legal identity for himself with the help of Technus and Tucker, who became better pals after they set aside the fact that they attacked each other at some point or another.

Danny became a little brother to him, Jazz became his little sister who likes to treat him as if he were still Danny at times, and Danielle became his daughter.

Dante legally adopted Dani after they got his papers in order, and made her an identity as well. Elle was much younger than he remembered, but then again, she was deaged recently and just came back into contact with the group, who couldn’t take care of her because they were still children as well.

Vlad was still a little evil but leveled out after a huge diabolical involving Maddie, their so called mother.

Madeline Fenton had thought her son and daughter conspired with the ghosts and attacked them in their own home, Danny was greatly injured with multiple blast wounds and Jazz suffered a concussion while trying to push him out of the target zones.

Jack had football tackled Madeline and the rest was history.

Vlad had fallen out of love with her after seeing what she did to her own children, and instead got his head out of his butt and realized he was in love with Jack all along.

Jack divorced Madeline, took custody of his kids and decided they should move, all while Vlad made plans to take down GIW with Team Phantom.

Jack and Vlad met him and decided to emotionally adopt Dante as well in their messed up family.

Dante got a job as a mechanic and started his own business in Gotham. Very cliche from all the fanfics he read in his past life but he wanted to do something he knew and loved. He loved fixing things and his side job as the king of the infinite realms was basically being like a father to ghost children while scolding those who thought it was a good idea to attack innocent mortals.

He mainly spent his time raising Danielle. Giving her everything she deserves and making her happy now that his family was safe.

He was randomly summoned by the Justice League who were ready to full on attack him until they saw him reading to his child, not realizing he was summoned until someone cleared their throat. He was literally in his own little bubble, reading his two year old daughter a storybook while holding her against his chest as he floated above the ground, laid back in a relaxed position.

How it would go:

I looked up from the book after feeling a sudden shift in my surroundings, seeing multiple very brightly dressed people in front of me. I glared, shifting completely into my ghost king form while holding my daughter close to my chest. The storybook I was reading had disappeared into a pocket dimension for later, as I had to deal with this madness.

“Who in their right minds would summon the Ghost King? I literally burnt all those summoning books to ash.” I grumbled, and looked down to see Elle had slightly woken up at the sound of my deep voice.

“Dada?” She mumbled, rubbing her right eye as she sat up from my chest.

“It’s alright, Elle,” I rumbled, kissing her forehead as she plopped back down to take her nap again at my reassurance. “We can finish reading time later today.” I murmured to her as she went back to snoozing.

“What do you want, mortals?” I asked nonchalantly.

“Why does the ghost king have a child? And how in the hell are you not attacking us as the books state?” Zatanna asked, looking on at me in shock.

“You willingly want to be attacked after summoning me? That’s idiotic. “ I state, looking bored with their conversation. I still held Elle close, not answering their questions about my child just yet.

“No, a bloody idiot summoned you just as we defeated him as a last defense!” Constantine spat out, looking hysterical.

“Well, sorry to break the news, coward, but the last king was defeated by me after trying to take over the world, he is now locked away in forever sleep until we can find a way to get rid of him completely.” I explained to the coward looking at me in shock on the ground, bruises across his face and the usual weird looking villain costume on him.

I looked around for a quick second before stopping at the Batfam. Who were all here in a more relaxed formation seeing a child in my arms. My favorite fandom family in my last life.

I looked them over before spotting the Red Hood, my celebrity crush I had on him was no secret to my family, but they had no room to judge for themselves.

His aura admitted contaminated ectoplasm, and I knew I had to heal him sometime in the future.

“May I ask what your goals are? And who is this child?” Superman spoke up after a moment of digesting my information about my new position.

“I protect both living and the undead. I don’t have a world ending goal in mind, just to raise my daughter and give her the life she deserves.” I said, looking down at my daughter with a small smile that would be unnoticeable to most.

I looked back up to see the large group had softened at my words and I was about to ask a question about Red Hood, when my daughter suddenly decided this was taking too long and too much noise for her to take a nap.

“Dada! Where puppy?” She demanded answers, smacking the side of my face with her chubby hands, as I floated there, unmoving with an emotionless face towards the group.

“Cujo is with the twerp, remember? He will come by later for playtime.” I answered, which was slightly muffled as she squished my cheeks together and smiled at me happily.

“Dada! Fishh—“ she squealed out, looking happy with herself as she giggled at my face.

“You gremlin—“ I muttered out, tickling her sides as she squeaked, her flying out of my arms and turning into her young ghost form, looking ready to play.

“Playtime?” She asked, bouncing a little in the air, clapping her hands a little.

“Not yet, blob ghost. We need to head back home for snack time.” I explained, crossing my arms as she pouted, my arm muscles bulged a bit as I crossed them, and I still always forget the fact that I’m taller than most, alongside bigger. In my past life, I was a stick of a girl that had spaghetti arms, much different for sure.

Her pouting turned into the famous puppy eyes, and I turned back to the group to avoid them, only to see amused faces all around.

“Do you guys need anything before we head back? I’m sure you don’t want to deal with a Princess tantrum.” I rumbled out, looking on in disinterest as Elle decided to hug the side of my face like an octopus. She probably still had the puppy eyes on.

“You have an adorable daughter!” Princess Diana exclaimed soon after I was finished speaking. “How old is she?” She asked, looking at me curiously as I lowered myself to the ground, Elle now floating behind my head as she played with my low ponytail.

“She is now two years old.” I answered, swiftly nabbing Elle from behind me while reaching the back of my head. I lowered my arms to see I had her upside down now, her hanging like a sack of potatoes as she giggled.

“Dada!” Elle exclaimed, waving her arms around her in glee as she looked up at me.

“You don’t feel like a ghost completely… neither does she, what are you exactly?” Constantine asked, waving his hand at me in confusion.

“I don’t know if I can trust you with that information, Constantine.” I growled a little, glaring at him as he stepped forward while Elle hid behind me.

“Hey now! Let’s calm down, no one needs to start anything!” Nightwing stepped in front of the glaring Constantine who looked more and more like a bug the longer I looked at him.

“There isn’t anything to start, really. His soul is in shreds at the moment, not very powerful compared to my kind anyway.” I stated, crossing my arms once again as Elle peaked out from over my shoulder.

“Now, I need to speak with a Mr. Red Hood.” I said, looking on at the Batfam who tensed at my words.

“Why?” Batman growled out, stepping in front of the confused Red Hood.

“To heal him, of course.” I sighed, pinching the bridge of my nose as I heard sounds of confusion from everyone else.

“His ectoplasm is very corrupted. He has the ghost flu, in which case makes my kind very moody and in need of pure ectoplasm to filter it and his emotions.” I briefly explained, unpinching my nose as I looked up from the ground. Willing my headache away for now.

“So his pit madness is basically the ghost flu?” Red Robin murmurs out hysterically, almost giggling in disbelief.

“Yes, I have heard of his haunt, Crime Alley, that being under his protection, I have never stepped foot on his property because I didn’t want to seem like a threat to a sick person who can’t control themselves completely with such a sickness.” I explained myself a bit nervously, rubbing the back of my neck a little with my right hand as Elle now sat on my left shoulder, swinging her legs.

“Wow, the ghost king is a dork…” I heard Spoiler mutter to Orphan, who nodded in agreement.

I huffed, crossing my arms and floated once again. “I can come back another time. I just wished to help a little. My doctor can probably fix him quicker than I, but I know what to do as I have studied under him for more than over a year now.” I informed them.

“So the pit madness can go away…?” Red Hood asked, stepping from around Batman to speak to me clearly.

“I’m unsure of what this “Pit Madness” is, but yes, I can heal you and make sure you properly get the help you need from your emotional roller coaster sickness.” I said, looking down at him as he took a few more steps to me, his family following behind him.

“Well, when can you fix me?” He asked, his voice modifier cutting all emotions from his voice, but I can clearly feel his emotions bursting from his almost formed core. It seems this sickness had stopped him from forming his core completely and left him sick for many years.

I could feel his hope, his rage and especially his bursts of want for some reason.

“I can fix you right now, but I wasn’t sure if you wanted privacy or not. It’s very…. Intimate. I can take you somewhere private if you would like?” I rumbled out, the burst of want came out more clearly, and I could tell Red Hood was clearly not expecting that word choice.

“Take me anytime—“ I could clearly hear his muttered out answer behind his helmet with my enhanced hearing, but I don’t know if I was supposed to hear that.

“Nope! Little Wing— you are not going with the ghost king—“ Nightwing suddenly yelled out, the whites of his mask bigger as Spoiler, Red Robin, and Signal burst into loud laughter. Batman sighed loudly in disappointment. Robin just “Tt” and sighed alongside his father, looking like a mini bat. Orphan just smiled at me.

“By intimate, I mean having a look at your soul, I will essentially have to take a closer look at that and cure you.” I fixed my words, making it seem as if I didn’t hear anything and I could feel a little disappointment coming from Red Hood but he nodded at my explanation.

[horsechestnut]

Batfamily Chronological Reading List

Here it is, a massive list of Batfamily comics all sorted by issue release date so you can read them in the order they were originally intended to be read in, or easily reference back to what happened when. Do you want to know what Dick was up to during A Death in the Family? Need to know if Cass was around yet when Steph had her baby for your fan fic? Just a completion-ist with too much time on your hands like me? Then this is the list for you!

About six months ago I was trying to read my way through some old comics and getting insanely frustrated trying to figure out the order they went in. There are lots of reading lists online, but none of them gave me what I truly wanted: the order of individual issues rather than comic runs or collections. I also couldn't find any that featured all of the Batkids. So I took all of the reading lists I was using, found the On-Sale-Date for each of the issues mentioned, found a few other lists to fill in some gaps, and complied them into chronological order.

This list features what I consider to be the main 8 Batfamily members: Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, Cassandra Cain, Damian Wayne, and Duke Thomas. It is by no means every appearance of these characters, but it is hopefully all of the important ones and then some. By no means do I suggest reading all of these (unless you're slightly insane like me), it's more of a reference guide than a read list.

Some Disclaimers:

This is still a work in progress. You'll notice that the first third of the list is much more detailed than the more recent entries. That's because I haven't read them yet. As of now I've only reached Batgirl 2000 #15, but will continue updating as I go through (I'm hoping to finish sometime within the next 12 months).

This is not a Batman list. I have included some issues about Bruce that I feel are important to the overall story, but if I were to include all of his important issues it would make the list unusable. You should still be able to follow his character arcs through his role in the comics listed here.

I needed to cut off somewhere, so anything released after December 31, 2023 was not included. I may go back and change this later, but not any time soon.

I do not want to discredit any of the Batfamily members not included here (ie Kate, Helena, Jean Paul). They are all important to Bruce and Gotham in their own way, but again I needed to cut it off somewhere or I never would have found an end.

For any edits you wish to suggest, please do so through this form. Any suggestions given not through this form will not be considered, and as it says in the form, I also will not consider any that don't have an explanation.

Finally I need to say thank you and give credit to the people who's reading lists I used to create this:

cazzam - New and Improved Cassandra Cain Reading Guide

Comic Book Herald - I used both their Complete Robin and Complete Batgirl Read Order Lists.

The Comic Book Treasury - I used both their Robin Reading Order and their Duke Thomas Reading Order

Comic Book Wire - The Signal Reading Order

Daily Jason Todd - Jason Todd's Reading List

Stephanie Brown Wiki Chronology Page

The Unoffical Guide to the DC Universe was also an incredible help with sorting out timelines, and all of my On-Sale-Date information comes from Grand Comics Database (GCD).

I hope you guys enjoy and find this useful! I'm happy to answer any questions, and if something isn't clear feel free to let me know!

[goingbuggy]

thank you, you’re the best. I will keep it short.

I wrote this to someone because I disagree with shuggy being great story in canon. But I thought longer and it turned out into more thoughts. First I do enjoy shuggy. I like them more as brothers and I like crocbug more. But I do like shuggy art sometimes.

Most of the story of shuggy is buggy being constantly angry at shanks. Every scene is just him being bitter, while shanks is chill. He’s angry because he’s not like shanks and blames himself for it. But shanks can’t help with that. It’s not abusive but you know how some DC fan are saying how joker is not harley LI but her origin story? I think it’s shuggy. Shanks is buggy begging. The have this bond but it’s over and not useful. What is left is buggy obsession which has to end. It’s without shanks reaction.

And both of those characters have more interesting and impactful relationships with other characters around them. Mostly shanks. He has people around him that are not jealous of him and are EQUAL. And buggy been replaced I think on purpose. Benn Beckman is there to be this close support that buggy could never be. Mihawk is rival, like buggy was in younger years but he’s meaningful to challenge shanks with respect and push him forward. Both of them make shanks better and fill those roles buggy couldn’t.

Buggy is just starting his bonds. He now has cross guild. And we know they’re gonna be for buggy in the future.

What do you think? I read OP many times and I think it does make sense and that is how the story will go. But you can call me out if you disagree. I respect you.

Woah, this is a long one! I just want to say, firstly, that you are entitled to your interpretations of Shanks and Buggy's relationship. However, I think you are going about this in a strange way. A bond is not measured by its usefulness, and claiming that Buggy has been "replaced" shows that you are viewing their dynamic from a distanced, almost utilitarian perspective; this isn't wrong, per se, but you are talking about characters who are meant to be people. And most people are irrational, emotional creatures who don't view their friendships as something profitable or disadvantageous. Buggy cannot be replaced by anyone, because Buggy is not a role to be filled in Shanks' life. Buggy was always just Buggy to Shanks. They were not friends because they only saw each other as useful. I think their interactions during the Wano flashback show that pretty clearly.

To address your point about Shanks and Buggy not being equals, though, I think this is a topic Oda has intentionally laid out, as it directly relates to Buggy's narrative. Buggy is someone who yearns to be seen as an equal -- just look at his reaction in Marineford when Whitebeard addresses him. (The blush is so cute, lmao.)

Buggy's insecurities are also the reason I believe he chose not to follow Shanks; my post here elaborates, but to sum it up neatly, Buggy immediately assumed he'd be working "under" Shanks, when Shanks only asked for Buggy to stay by his side. I truly think Shanks has always viewed Buggy as his equal -- it's just a matter of Buggy realizing that.

At this point in the story, they are more balanced than ever: both emperors with massive influence, albeit in different ways. As Buggy says himself, they are "on equal footing again." So, when you say their relationship has been unequal in parts, I don't disagree -- but that's not a flaw. That's intentional. It's an explicit aspect of the way their dynamic is written. It's a major source of their miscommunication.

Cross Guild is also currently a relationship in Buggy's life, but we don't exactly know where it's going. I would absolutely love it if Mihawk and Crocodile began to believe in Buggy and support him -- mostly because it would be hilarious -- but as of now, it is nowhere near a genuine bond. It is strictly business, and ironically, deeply unequal in terms of power dynamics. Buggy has only flipped the script on them recently, starting in chapter 1082, so we have to wait and see how that progresses.

At the end of the day, it's your opinion -- you can view Buggy's relationship with Shanks as uninteresting, and that's totally fine! But the lens with which you view their dynamic could use some adjusting. Your complaints stem from personal tastes, not fundamental problems with Shanks and Buggy's narrative.

[that-one-kiddo-in-the-back]

The Harley Quinn show is amazing... probably.

Okay, so when I was in like middle school, I was a huge DC fan. I'm not as much anymore as I've dedicated my life to Star Wars. Now, Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy are my favorite femfatile villains and have been the lesbian couple Gotham really didn't want, but the LGBTQ fans needed. Both have been abused by the men in their lives and found companionship with each other. Now let see how Lily sees it.

So Lily isn't a fan of the DC universe. Mainly, her problem stems from batman saying that she stopped caring about batman when it became something dark and edgy and used the dark knight as an example of it getting too dark, which if you're gonna blame something for a franchise for getting to dark don't use the dark knight. The batman franchise has been a dark thing way before 2008. Batman, in the 85 years he's been around, has always had a dark streak. All of the villains are crazy patients with a killer clown running around a corrupted city and the main hero becoming who he is after the death of his parents. If you want to blame something for how Batman is now. Blame the dudes in charge in 1939.

Now, Harley Quinn has been the Jokers "girlfriend" ever since her first appearance in 1992. With them being an off and on relationship. Lily says that the abuse Harley goes through with the joker is never really touched upon, which is both true and not. Everyone in comics and shows knows that Harley is in an unhealthy relationship, and all have asked why she stays. It's not that it's not touched upon. it's more of everyone knowing she's not gonna leave him, no matter what he does to her. To everyone around her, they know Harley doesn't want to leave the joker, so why bother convincing her. Like Lily said, you can't help someone who doesn't want it.

Lily starts talking about Ivy and how dispirit the fact that she's a doctor (most of the villains are doctors in their own field) she sexualized except for The Batman where she's just a teenager. Then she talks about clayface being a D list villain who's now a struggling actor (he always was). While she's talking about other characters, her straw man is constantly asking Lily what she thinks of Harley Quinn herself and spoiler alert she doesn't like Harley. What a surprise.

She claims that Harley's character is boring and is only centered around the love between her and Ivy and the abuse between her and the Joker now that might be true for the show which is pretty lame if you don't want to read her comics but what makes me mad is that Lily thinks that Harley being a stand alone villain never made sense because she has no evil goal like Ivy or the penguin but the Joker also doesn't have a goal either. A villain doesn't need to have a goal to do evil things, and Harley is no different. Harley Quinn is straight up crazy thanks to the chemical dunk and has HPD (Histrionic Personally Disorder), meaning she does things for attention. She doesn't need to have a goal in mind to cause trouble, and personally, I think the scariest villains are the ones who start shit just because they could.

Lily then goes on to say that Harley is only a villain because of the people she's dating, then brings up how Harley was the Jokers therapist but threw it away because of

"Bog standard fangirl hybristophilia"

Harley was fucking manipulated by the Joker to see if he could make her fall in love with him not because she had a thing for bad boys. I have not seen the Harley Quinn show, so please tell me that's not what the writers wrote in for her backstory.

I try to watch the whole video, but her saying that a victim of manipulation and abuse did this to herself because she had Bonnie and Clyde syndrome pissed me off so much that I couldn't finish it. All I can say is that Lily really has a problem with victim characters, and we've seen it time and time again from her hating Hunter to Catra, how she's willing to end friendship to save her own mental health and completely forgetting that the person who is reaching out probably has no one else to go to. Lily has no empathy, but I didn't need to tell you that.

[imagineanime2022]

Heroes With An S/O W/ Powers Like Hawkwoman

Keigo Takami X Fem!Reader, Toshinori Yagi X Fem!Reader, Shota Aizawa X Fem!Reader

Requested: Anon

Request: Hello everything is fine? I saw that requests are open! I would like to know if you can write headcanons for bnha (hawks, all might and aizawa) with a s/o who is a professional heroine and is like hawkwoman from dc? (she has super strength, speed because of her wings, resistance, etc.)

Keigo Takami

🪶 Alright let’s be honest there is going to be a lot of bird behaviour from this individual, lucky you're both derived from hawks so you understand each others behaviours pretty well. 🪶 Keigo is forever puffing up his feathers when you first met, making himself look bigger and more suitable, it did catch your attention by nature. 🪶 Miriko made fun of him every time. 🪶 Hawks by nature mate for life, so when he decided that he was in, he was 100% in, there was nothing that could change his mind. 🪶 He’d spend a lot of time measuring wings and wrapping his wings around you, you’d do the same to him and sometimes you’d make a cocoon just for the two of you by having your wings meet in the middle. 🪶 He sings all the time, another bird thing but if you ever sing along with him, it will make him the happiest person in the world. 🪶 You guys go for flights all the time, he’d dive low to grab you anything that caught his or your eye. 🪶 You guys were two of the fastest heroes, you learned to work together covering whatever the other couldn’t and that became even more needed after his fight with Dabi. 🪶 You massaged his shoulders when he was healing, you helped him to get back up but he never stopped missing his wings. 🪶 You refused to fly without him and you were the one that helped him to relearn how to fly when he got his prosthetics. 🪶 You both have heightened senses so he’d often give you his shirts or blankets so that you would always feel him near (even if he was rarely more than 2 steps away). 🪶 You were a hero couple that was feared by villains and loved by civilians but neither of you cared about that. The only thing that was important is how much you loved each other.

Yagi Toshinori

🦸 The moment that Toshinori saw you he was enamoured, honestly he’d have seen your wings and the speed and strength that you displayed. 🦸 Challenged you to races all the time, he wanted to be the fastest but he had to admit that you had him in that department. 🦸 Toshi was playful and he had yet to be able to sneak up on you either so he tried that too, but given your enhanced senses, you could hear and smell him coming when you couldn’t see the flashy costume. 🦸 When you guys actually started dating it was a secret to no one, it was lucky that you were as good at defending yourself as you were because there were just as many villains as fans trying to get your attention. 🦸 Toshi came very close to ending the relationship when a villain came after you to get to him, you had to tell him that you weren’t having it and literally slapped him round the back of his head to get him to listen. 🦸 Toshi would literally carry you anywhere the extra weight from your wings didn’t bother him at all but he did love being wrapped in them when you both had the time. 🦸 Gran Torino would sometimes enlist you to get Toshinori to do something because you both knew that it was better for him. 🦸 You were the only one that could get him to sit still after he was injured by One For All. 🦸 Toshi spent all of this time bringing you presents, anything that you could ever want, even things you didn’t know you wanted like kids (Midorya and Bakugo). 🦸 Now with his smaller stature he loved your wings even more, he hid in them when he didn’t want to be seen, made sure that they were groomed and taken care of. 🦸 Toshi made sure that you always laid on top of him, even after he was injured (much to your protest) because he would not have you lay on your wings no matter how many times you tell him that you can support your own weight. 🦸 Definition of a celebrity couple, you guys were what everyone strived to be, happy together, playful, easy and completely dedicated to each other.

Shota Aizawa

🐛 Shota was probably the last person that anyone expected you to take an interest in but after one mission he couldn’t seem to get rid of you and to be honest he didn’t mind having you around. 🐛 You were the one that did most of the work, just trying to get him to look at you for more than a second but once he really looked he was a goner. 🐛 You used your wings to shield him from the sunlight while he was sleeping during the day or the cold in the winter. 🐛 Shota is a mindful human and often found himself dancing around you in the first few months of your relationship, making sure not to touch your wings and apologising when he did, it took a long while to convince him that it was okay. 🐛 The first time that you asked him to help with grooming your wings, you thought he was going to faint. 🐛 He teaches you how to use a capture weapons and you taught him how to use your weapons. He took to yours faster than you took to his. He's unbelievably adaptable but he admired the strength and agility that came with your power. 🐛 You were well into your relationship by the time that 1-A came along, so a lot of them knew of you but they didn’t know that you were dating/married to their teacher until the first villain attack when you made yourself known. 🐛 Neither of you had ever talked about having children but you ended up with 20 the day that you saved them. 🐛 You moved into the dorms with Aizawa and basically mothered the entire class, scolded them, praised them and protected them no matter what. Aizawa loved watching you with them. 🐛 When he brought Eri back, you both became her sworn protectors and he didn’t even have to ask when he put you both down as her legal guardians. 🐛 While Shota was teaching you were out doing hero work so when it came time to fight you were always called on and he always worried about you while you were gone. 🐛 You were a large mismatched family but it centred around the two of you, anyone could see that you loved each other and protect your little flock.

Request Here!!

[laxxarian]

Evil Fenton Parents Meeting the Good Ones

It's basically that.

Maddie and Jack (the canon ones. Let's call them as is)

Mads and J (the evil AU ones).

........

Maddie and Jack were doing the "normal" stuff with Danny and Jazz, a happy family bonding time.... Fighting and helping ghosts and humans around Amity Park. Now that the Fentons have one thing in common, everyone is as close as they were before. It was all good and peachy when a new ghost came to Amity and had the whole Family portaled through somewhere else where clouds are grey and the streets are crowded.

Jack: Well... This can't get any weirder, won't it?

Jazz, eyeing Jack with worried looks: Dad!!

Jack: What?! Gotta let it come over and finish it faster!

Danny: Whoo... Boy... This is gonna be a loonnggg day.

Maddie: Awww, sweety, wouldn't that mean we'd get a long bonding time?

Jack: Great idea, Mads!

The family then found out that they were in Gotham but they didn't know anything of such a place before. And all the while the Fentons go around exploring the place and finding a way to get back (They found out that they're in a different reality due to seeing Maddie and Jack working with the GIW [they knew because of one big advertisement in a billboard])

Maddie: Well, that's horrifying.

Jack: Danny here must be a human then!

Danny, who knew that his parents despises the GIW even before knowing Danny is Phantom: Whoa. To think I'd see you guys work with them.

Jazz: Alright you three, stop dilly dallying. We still have a reality to get back to and put back a certain ghost to the ghost zone.

Maddie: Oh, Jazz. Can't we explore a bit more? For a ghost to be able to take us here just seems so fascinating.

Jazz: Eughh... Fine...

While they walked around the streets, the people would stare at them weirdly and were amazed to see the parents. Meanwhile the Danny in this reality was staring at them wide eyed at the corner of the alley.

Danny (the dissected one au): Did... Did they somehow clone me????

And the JL are freaking out when they see the Fentons being in two places rather than one because one, the evil ones are being held with them and two, the evil ones are also confused.

But Batman came in and theorized that the new Fentons may be in a different reality and thus, the new Fentons were invited to the Watchtower.

(I'm being honest, I literally have no idea if they would allow this or not but the only place I know is either the Manor or the tower 😔😔😔 and yes, I'm not a fan or probably I am [I'm not] but I am interested in DC just that I'm too confused on where to start reading, watching, gaming first cuz they're everywhere and the multiple of Robins are not helping me)

And then there, they all discuss while the evil Fentons (cuffed)...

(if ur wondering how they got here, it's because they were able to control Danny's mind again and got them to this place and was planning to destroy it but Danny actually tricked them into thinking that they did control Danny [The JL are planning for something to the evil Fentons])

...while the evil Fentons are listening in and make comments like:

Mads: He's a ghost scum! How could you ever accept him?!

J: That ghost scum must've successfully controlled your minds! Why else would you accept an abomination?!

But each time they do, the good parents would counter it like:

Maddie: Because he is our son! No matter who or what he is! He is still our boy!

Jack: You said it! And Danno-boy here is a great hero! Why shame him?

Maddie: We are proud of him! And we love him! Isn't that all that matters?

Jazz, hugging Danny (the edgy one): Oh, little brother, it must have been hard for you...

To Danny (the one that got experimented au), felt his tears welling up in his eyes, to think he'd hear the day where his parents would say that and see his sister alive but.... They weren't his.

+.+.+.+.+.+

Bonus:

The JL are all quite surprised/shocked and amazed by how cheerful, snarky and pretty much talkative this other Danny is (the one that got good parents).

They also found out that this Danny loves space and is now a fan of Martian Manhunter and all had thought that it was probably the same for their Danny (the one that got no parents).

[punch-aholic]

What's relationship between your Harley and Joker? For now it seems they're pretty alright.

Yay I’m glad someone asked!

Punch!verse Harley and joker are a couple. Their dynamic is more mutual than one sided. If you ever played Lego DC super villains I heavily borrowed from that depiction. I think that Harley sees him as her escape from monotony. Almost like he helped her realize she had more potential in life than a desk job. In Harley, joker sees a possibility for a chance at something slightly normal. She grounds him.

They really do love each other and I’m aware that in their conception and in past depictions their dynamic has been unhealthy. However, this is my adaptation of the characters. I’m not a fan of most modern Harley depictions either. I like her classic vibe more but she still deserves to be able to stand independent from Joker. I like them more as partners in crime than boss and henchgirl.

That being said, I do love Harlivy and Batjokes but I don’t feel as if they fit in my universe. I might still draw these pairings one day though cause they are cute

[maniacwatchestheworld]

Several small BatFam notes

@moss-covered-thoughts (I'm answering questions and providing information for DPxDC fans.)

lol don't worry about it! Nothing about you talking about your fic will make me feel left out! I'm just happy to help you out with your work! If anything will make me feel left out, it's the lack of rogues content and people within this fanspace underutilizing Vlad and not having much of that juicy, juicy polycule content (specifically Vlad/Jack/Maddie) that I keep coming back to Danny Phantom for. :p Speaking of, I want to be as transparent as I can with the information I'm giving out, because just like all comics fans, I'm not an expert on everything and I am very much in my own specific niche and haven't read everything out there! I'm actually not much of a Batfam fan and am much MUCH more of a rogues fan! (Specifically my hyperfixation is focused around Harvey Dent and Two-Face.) So while I do have some information about the members of the batfamily, my knowledge isn't nearly as comprehensive as someone who's deep dived into that part of the DC universe! I'll give you the information I can, and hopefully someone with more cohesive Batfam knowledge can reblog this post with extra notes to fill in the holes I have in my knowledge. >.<

Adoption Order

So I can't tell you the specific specifics of adoption specifically, but I believe that the order of each member joining the Bat Family would probably be along the lines of: Dick Grayson -> Barbara Gordon -> Jason Todd -> Tim Drake -> Cassandra Cain -> Stephanie Brown -> Damian Wayne -> Duke Thomas.

Batgirl and Duke recs

Again, I haven't read much Bat Family stuff because my primary focus is on the rogues. But I do have a handful of recs! If you're willing to watch a long-ass video instead of reading, I would actually highly recommend Linkara's retrospective on Cassandra Cain and here's the link to said video! It's very good and goes into just about every major comic appearance she was in at the time of the video first coming out (in 2019)! You will get a very good image of her character from that, I like Linkara's analysis, and by watching that video, you will definitely be able to come away from it with a number of recommendations for both Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown! (He does talk about Steph some in this video, but it's limited.)

Speaking of Stephnie I'm sorry to say that I don't really have any recommendations for Steph as I sadly have just not really happened to come across any works that have her in them in my poking around in different comics and related media. But honestly, while I can't give you any recs for Steph, maybe you should toss Linkara (@atopfourthwall) a message! He's actually a decently active Tumblr user and given that he wants to do a different retrospective on Stephanie Brown, certainly he would have things to recommend!

As for other Cass reccomendations... The only thing I have in my back pocket is Spirit World. It's not about her, it's a solo series about the brand spanking new character, Xanthe Zhou, but Cass IS a main character in it, and people seem genuinely happy with what they did with her in that story!

If you're looking for good Barbra Gordon content... Well... Personally I would recommend giving her episodes in Batman: the Animated series or the issues that include her in The Batman Adventures a look-see...? It's always a solid time with her around in B:TAS, or in the Batman Adventures! They characterize her very well in those serieses!

If you want both a Cass and a Barbra suggestion... Maybe check out No Man's Land...? Asking you to read all of the comics that were part of that saga might be a little much, but there is a novel adaptation of the No Man's Land storyline out there, and personally I listened to the reading of that novel as done by Graphic Audio and it is genuinely excellent! Like, the marketing may be tacky, but it is on the level of quality as something like an audio drama podcast or a Big Finish Audio. It just happens to be a book reading. :p But No Man's Land IS where Cass was first introduced, (also where Harley Quinn joined the comics universe fun fact!) and it has plenty of good moments from Barbara in it too!

As for Duke... Honestly, if you aren't already reading the Wayne Family Adventures, then you really ought to. >.< That series is available for free on webtoon and the first several strips have him as the main character before it becomes more of an ensemble cast thing. (And in case you were wondering it IS official DC media!) >.< I also haven't read much of Duke's stuff, and so in terms of his backlog, I really don't know what to recommend. The one story that I did happen to read that heavily featured Duke... Was "My Own Worst Enemy" (it's like volume 1 of All-Star Batman) which was... Fine...??? Like, as a Two-Face and Harvey Dent story, it was pretty bad and ablest in how it portrayed Harvey's DID. (But this isn't necessarily unusual for books that include him... SIIIIIGH!) But it was also incredibly stupid and fun, and had a lot of good forwards momentum and offered a number of interesting ideas that I don't entirely hate! So overall I find it... Fine... But as a Duke story... Honestly it's not bad as far as a Duke story can go! And the back-up story for that little arc (the Cursed Wheel) was pretty alright too! I do feel like after I read My Own Worst Enemy that I did understand Duke just a little better as a character! So while it's not good... You might find it to be decent in what you're looking for...? Because I really cannot speak on any other stories he's been in. >.<

So uh... Sorry about my whole limited perspective thing... But I do hope that you find some of this useful at least! I wish you the best of luck in your writing endeavors!

[devine-fem]

i hate dc twitter fans… like a lot, at this point i have to be honest. theres a reason i’m on tumblr and not twitter. the good people on there who like unproblematic things, all they know how to do is fight and harass people and make fun of things people enjoy and on the other side is problematic people. im seeing a lot of people generalize a curtain type of shippers like jayroy, birdflash and jondami shippers and that is a seriously bad habit. (not calling you this or saying just having that habit makes you this) but the only people i know who have that type of habit are like… racists or something, the type of people who take curtain characteristics of a group of people and use it to assume things for anyone similar. all i want to EVER do is talk about and enjoy my ships cause they make me - us happy and i cant do that if im weird about them or always fighting. but oh well, im going to have to use their same mentality and assume because youre a dc twitter fan, you’re like the anti christ so i dont die before 20 from an aneurism.

god, they’re like kpop stans but instead its your favorite bat themed superhero or whatever. i hate the internet sometimes.

id like to really thank my mutuals and the people who interact with me and don’t make any assumptions about me. thank you so much for helping create and environment where we can fond over the things we enjoy like maniacs and just be happy.

its crazy how they all like dc and theyre to share their love of dc with each other but theyre so fking MEAN to each other.

i wish twitter would just cease to exist sometimes but not even, i need twitter to exist because everyone with a twitter like mentality needs to stay over there and i can still refuge in tumblr to be safe.

like tumblr has some discourse sometimes but at least people fight back and share the idea that if youre hating at all on something one likes then you’re the problem.

[necrotic-nephilim]

Give me your most controversial dc opinions!!!

HA YES GLADLY I WOULD LOVE TO (added a read more because i had a lot of words oopsie)

The Titans Tower Incident was in character for Jason Todd. at worst, it's a *bit* over-dramatic and a little cringey, but if you consider his actions, his motivations, and what he *actually* does, i honestly don't think it's OOC for him. he's just kind of a dramatic asshole in that era and i stand by that comic. the issue isn't the comic itself, it's how people interpret it.

i think the DC fandom, specifically the Batfamily fandom, really likes to claim to be progressive for brownie points, but then will have the one token woman that everyone decides is acceptable to hate. like, it's one thing if you dislike Carrie Kelley, i get it. Frank Miller isn't a great writer of women and she can be a lack of a character in the original Dark Knight Returns. but if you go out of your way making constant edits and posts shitting on her, it's *weird*. especially when most of the people shitting on her haven't even consumed her source, and their reasons for disliking her can apply to any other Robin, especially Tim. but as long as you put say, Steph or Cass on a pedestal, you can talk on and on about how you want to kill Carrie for the crime of existing. it feels like acceptable misogyny. i also think this extends to writers. if you put say, Gail Simone on a pedestal, you're free to blame everything under the sun on Devin Grayson. (to be clear i think you can and should hate Devin Grayson for a lot of things, but most rumors about her are untrue and if you look at every badly written comic and go "sounds like something Devin Grayson would write" that's really weird bc everything she's done, men like Chuck Dixon, Tom King, Tom Taylor, Marv Wolfman, etc have done in tenfold.) like, misogyny = bad unless it's That One Woman We've All Agreed To Hate. it's weird and i keep noticing it. and no one seems to unpack it. (i mostly see this on TikTok, not Tumblr tbf)

i don't care if you ship BruDick or not, but it's not weird for canon content to imply or state Dick had a crush on Bruce when he was first taken in. even in canon where Dick sees Bruce as a "father figure" in the most generous sense, that bond took years to build and when Dick was freshly orphaned, he *had* the memory of loving parents and didn't want Bruce to fill that role. you don't have to ship BruDick, you don't even have to like batcest, but if you're vitriolic toward just the idea that "hey maybe a young kid on the cusp of puberty might have some weird feelings to work out about the canonically very attractive mysterious playboy who took him in before seeing him as family because that bond took years to build" is nasty and terrible and wrong to you, you don't like the Batfamily, you just like the nuclear "neat" version of it in your head

the Batfamily characters are *all* too hypercompetent. like all of them are just *too* good at what they do that in order to write them in interesting arcs together, you have to willingly make some of them OOC in order to not immediately have the Problem wrapped up. i get it, Bruce is the greatest detective, Tim is wicked smart, Jason's a heavy hitting brawler, but we've reached a point where all of these characters have so many buffs they're not *fun* anymore. especially not in a group setting where you need to justify them needing each other's help. and even worse-so when they interact outside of the Gotham, you end up making every non-Batfam character seem useless just to make the Batfamily look cool. it's exhausting. i want to see these characters lose fights, look stupid, and not be the best for once. they're all getting so good they're just kind of. boring. which is the worst sin for a character, IMO.

i think we should go like. a good year of all Justice League-related teams not having a single Bat on the roster. just as a cleanse so *someone else* can shine. i get why non-Batfam DC fans are sick of the Batfamily bc jesus. it's oversaturation of the market.

power scaling "who would win" fights are fucking boring and i don't care. that's the least interesting thing about the fandom. you're missing the point of all of these characters if you only care about who could win a brawl. also it's just a stupid debate because the answer will *always* be: whoever the author of the comic wants to win.

the Batfamily is too damn big. i love every single one of them do not get me wrong. i'd die for the little niche characters who are likely never going to be relevant again like Julia Pennyworth or Kate Spencer. but it's too fucking big at this point. it's insisted to us that these characters are family but like. half of them have barely existed on the same page together more than once. it's ridiculous and it cannot sustain itself. none of these characters are allowed proper shine because they'll just get dropped for the next new shiny character. i think Maps Mizoguchi is a cool lil lady, but i know in my soul in like. three years she will fade into comics limbo and we'll have a new shiny character to fawn over. it's a brutal cycle bc DC doesn't know how to give any of these characters follow through, just wants to wave around cool new concepts.

both Under The Red Hood and Death In The Family are mediocre adaptations and strip the most important emotional elements of Jason's story from the plot. you can't properly adapt Jason's death if you leave his mother out of it. like they're phenomenal movies as their own pieces of media, but they lack the necessary emotional weight for Jason.

on the note of adaptations: the Young Justice cartoon is i think the best case study of "how do you react to a piece of media that's amazing on it's own, but is a fucking horrible adaptation?" because like, i can't discredit it. it's a good show. but it's a bad adaptation and i think people using it as an entry point for DC can make their views of certain characters and teams *very* warped. the Harley Quinn: Birds of Prey movie falls into a similar vein for me. if that movie was it's own thing with original characters, it'd likely be a top five movie for me. but because it's *such a fucking bad adaptation* i can't help but hate it for brutalizing the characters and the general concept of the BoP. it should've been a Gotham Sirens movie, and Young Justice should've been a Teen Titans show. and sure, adaptations don't owe us accuracy, but they have negative effects on the comics when they gain popularity. so i struggle to like Young Justice bc of how badly it's affected certain characters.

also on the note of adaptations: the best adaptation of how comic media operates is the Sandman tv show. adapting comics to tv shows or movies is difficult bc comic arcs don't operate the way show/movie arcs do, but the Sandman show proves it's absolutely doable to adapt the storytelling style while still making the typical adjustments you need for an adaptation.

DC needs more Deaf representation. in most areas, DC either matches Marvel or outperforms Marvel with representation of marginalized identities, but it's fucking tragic we have no deal Deaf rep in DC whereas Marvel has quite a few to pick from. this one is personal bc i'm Deaf but it does fuck me up the only option we have is a side character from Tim Drake: Robin who doesn't appear anywhere else and isn't a great character overall. DC i'm in your walls.

on the note of representation, if i see one more person say Titans had "perfect casting" while in the same breath admitting Dick was whitewashed, you are weird and i dislike you. it's really fucking weird that whitewashing is permissable to this fandom if the actor cast/fancast is hot. Dick should've been a Roma actor. Damian should not be fancast as a white actor. it's the bare minimum.

i have so many more but i will end with this especially controversial one: Dan Mora's art is overhyped. that man has the worst same face syndrome i've ever seen and i will not lie half the time i can't tell which Robin he's drawing. his art is technically gorgeous and it's so pretty to look at, but begging for every comic series to be drawn by him is boring and terrible. the art style of a comic reflects it's genre. wanting all comic art to look like Dan Mora's art is sucking the style out of comics. i miss art styles like Todd Nauck's that clearly reflected the genre of the comic.

i lied i have one more i'm REALLY passionate about: Tim's vigilante name after Red Robin should not be bird-themed. naming him Sparrow or Cardinal is *just* as bad as naming him Red Robin longterm. they're *just* as derivative and they *sound* cool but don't hold any real unique identity for Tim outside of Robin. like it baffles me we all agree he needs to move on from Robin and then decided "let's name him Robin Lite". if he has a bird name, it should be Jackdaw so at the very least, he's not red anymore. and Jackdaw could be a fun callback to Drake, in that it uses part of Tim's real name (his middle name, Jackson) while standing out a bit. but if i really had creative control i'd give him a completely unique name. if it has to be Batfamily related, Gray Ghost. but in my head, his name should be Conspiracy. i could write a lengthy meta on why and tbh it is based in my love for the Question and wanting Tim to have a similar detective noir-esque gritty solo, but i genuinely don't think he should be Cardinal or Sparrow. those names only continue his identity issues of being trapped as either Robin or a Robin knockoff.

[robin-the-robo]

Okay so @steriafluff asked me for Red Hood recommendations and I apparently have a lot of those, so...

Do keep in mind that these are very much My Opinions, but this is what I think is worth reading if you're getting into Jason Todd/Red Hood and don't wanna end up reading the... Really Weird Stuff.

So I think everyone should start by reading Batman 1940 from issue #408 to #429, which ends with Death in The Family, to see what Jason was like as a kid and as Robin (an absolute delight).

Then obviously you gotta read Batman: Under the Red Hood, (and deal with a 19 y/o being drawn like he's 40. Yeah.) but I would also recommend Red Hood: Lost Days, which basically covers what happens between the Lazarus Pit and Under the Red Hood.

Then we have... Red Hood and the Outlaws (2011). Look. I'll be honest. The """characterization""" for Starfire in that comic is painfully sexist. It has its moments and we somehow managed to pull a pretty cool friend group (and/or polycule if you wanna interpret it that way) out of it, but I would never blame you for skipping it. Red Hood/Arsenal, which covers the time after the original Outlaws broke up, is pretty decent tho.

Red Hood and the Outlaws: Rebirth (2016), on the other hand, I think is cooler than people give it credit. I like that they're a play on the DC trinity (Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman) but as antiheroes. The plot goes in some weird directions from time to time, but the characters keep their personalities all the way through it and I think it's just really fun. Tbh the worst thing about it is that they ended it.

Now I'm gonna give you a few wildcard picks that you're either gonna love or hate, but I think there's something cool in each of them:

Batman: Urban Legends, from issue #1 to #6. Look, it's got Bruce and Jason struggling to cooperate, they're realistically tense but ultimately on the same side, I wrote a whole fanfic about how delightful Jason's interaction with a kid he saves in this comic is, so yeah.

Batman: Three Jokers. This one is quite dark and potentially triggering I think, so be careful. It also has a little bit of Barbara x Jason which No Thank You, but the art is GREAT and it has some banger moments in there. Read at your own peril.

Robins (2021). It's got ups and downs, not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but if you want to see all five Robins interact it's a pretty interesting read.

Knight Terrors: Robin. Hey do you want Tim and Jason interacting and being brothers and actually talking through some of their personal issues while battling their own nightmares? If yes, then you'll enjoy this. A lil bit on the nose but good nonetheless.

And then finally we have Red Hood: The Hill, the new RH comic currently ongoing. We only have a couple of issues out yet so it's a bit early to judge its quality. Atm i agree with someone here on Tumblr who said that it feels like it's more about the new characters than about Jason himself, but maybe that'll change later on. We'll see.

So yeah these aren't all the comics I've read about him, but they are the ones that get his characterization right, or better than the rest at least. Hope this helps some new (or simply confused, which is very fair) fans out there.