#but the fandom lives on because people love these shows
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thewoollyviking · 23 hours ago
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Yes, Rose fucked up. She fucked up interpersonally with the gems and with Greg. And those choices were hers. She should be judged by those actions.
But why exactly do you think she kept those secrets? You think it’s because she’s some manipulative monsters or selfish coward?
No, it’s because she grew up under a living hell under the Diamonds.
Lemme give you some context here, friend;
According to the art books, all four Diamonds are rough around 20,000 years old. To give you an idea how old that is compared to irl history…
There are figures early humans carved from mammoth ivory and spear tip of flint that were made when the bottom of the North Sea was still a mammoth steppe in Doggerland.
Subtract the time Rose spent on Earth after the war (give or take a few centuries) and assuming the craptastic treatment she endured under the Diamonds has pretty much been the norm for all that time, and she had been abused for roughly 10-12,000 years. Rose’s pain predates written language and agriculture.
I. Do not. Give. A single. Chicken. Fried. Fuck. How sad the Diamonds think they were after losing Rose.
Oooooh booo fucking hooo Blue sulked in the middle of a human zoo Rose never even wanted in the first place.
Yellow knew she wanted to spare Earth and wanted to blow it up.
And White’s first action seeing “Pink” return was to send a mind controlled version of her original Pearl to greet her as a power move. To remind her what happens when she doesn’t control her power.
They didn’t mourn Rose. They mourned the person they wanted her to be.
And that’s made all the more clear once they realize Steven isn’t Rose. No moment to think about how Rose being gone was actually their own fault, not the act of some outside gem. Not moment to think about why Rose was so desperate to run away.
“Aww Pink’s gone? Gee that sucks. Welp, time to find a new pink!”
Fuck dude, some people mourn Healthcare CEOs more than the Diamonds actually mourned Rose.
And yet they get that nice fairy tale happy ending where they can be quirky space grandmas who think what they’re doing will ever hope to make up for the suffering they caused.
Meanwhile, Rose’s own loved ones feel like they have to apologize for daring to mention her in a positive light and say they’re making excuses for her.
Steven by the time of Future isn’t facing any gems that are actually a threat (bluebird is a joke character she don’t fucking count). He’s spent 5 seasons demonstrating why it’s better to talk about your feelings and the gems offer to help him at pretty much every turn and yet Steven chooses to forego that in favor of taking everything out on Rose.
The Diamonds have been the instigators who make every worse without fail. They’re the reason Rose came out as such a broken fucking person and yet we’re asked to pass more judgement on her for not being enough of a perfect fucking princess to solve things Steven’s way?
Rose spent her entire goddamn life clawing her way out of that pit of misery but we’re supposed to scoff at her for getting mud on her dress along the way?
What the fuck was the point in showing that Rose spent that lifetime trying to be better to just end it with “maybe her family would be better off if they just stopped thinking about her altogether.”
There’s a fucking reason this stupid fucking fandom took glee in harassing me and friends of mine for not joining them in burning Rose at the stake and it’s because of how Future, either due to time constraints or genuine creative decisions, completely dropped the ball on her.
I still love this show. But I cannot and will not ever watch Future. And if Rose ain’t there to heal, than at least let me take comfort in making the Diamonds hurt.
Sometimes I think about how and why some people had such a *bad* reaction to the end of Steven Universe, specifically in regards to the Diamonds living.
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Even though they no longer are causing harm to others and are able to actually undo some of their previous harm by living, some folks reacted as though this ending was somehow morally suspect. Morally bankrupt, even.
And I think it might be because so many of us were raised on a very specific kind of kids media trope:
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They all fall to their deaths.
Disney loves chucking their bad guys off cliffs. And it makes sense- in a moral framework where villains *must* be punished (regardless of whether their death will actually prevent further harm or not), but killing of any kind is morally bad for the hero, the narrative must find a way to kill the villain without the protagonists doing a murder.
It's a moral assumption that a person can *deserve* to die, that it is cosmically just for them to die, that them dying is evidence that the story itself is morally good and correct. Scar *deserves* to die, but it would be bad for Simba to kill him. So....cliff. (edit: yes, cliff then hyenas. But cliff first. Lol.)
Steven Universe, whatever else it's faults, took a step back and said "but if killing people is bad, then people dying is bad", and instead of dropping White Diamond off a cliff, asked "what would actual *restorative*, not punitive, justice look like? What would actual reparations mean here? If the goal is to heal, not just to punish, how do we handle those who have done harm?" And then did that.
Which I think is interesting, and that there was pushback against it is interesting.
It also reminds me of the folks who get very weird about Aang not killing Ozai at the end of Avatar. And like, Ozai still gets chucked in prison, so it doesn't even push back on our cultural ideas of punitive justice *that much.* and still, I've seen people get real mad that the child monk who is the last survivor of a genocide that wiped out his entire pacifist culture didn't do a murder.
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stars-for-circe · 3 days ago
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Circe's Most Frequented 🤍🤍🤍
My favourite authors over many different fandoms, for your indulgence.
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@astralnymphh - TLOU, sapphic, shakespeare reborn
𖣂 There is no one else who could begin this list except for you tbh. One of the first authors I ever followed on this app and your work has never failed to blow me away; from your beautifully paced works that never run out of new prompts and tropes that you always nail, to your crazy big words you scavenged from wordhippo and managed to intergrate perfectly into your fics. To the Ellie Williams enthusiasts, give her fics a read and I promise it will change the trajectory of your lives forever. And don't be afraid to send her an ask, because she will quite literally craft a masterpiece.
𖣂 My recommendation: 'The Salvo Project'
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@vifilms - TLOU, sapphic, she makes tumblr formatting her bitch
𖣂 At first it was your witty drabbles, then you graduated to 10k fics that take everyone's breath away. The way you can turn a single tiny idea into such a detailed work while also integrating the essence of each character you write into every single paragraph never fails to amaze me every time you appear on my feed. With your constantly changing layouts, and your beautifully crafted fic headers that show just how much of your heart goes into everything you put onto this app, you keep raising the bar again and again.
𖣂 My recommendation: 'Long Night, Long Ride'
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@sweetercalypso - TLOU, multi
𖣂 Also one of my first follows, I remember quite clearly scrolling through the Abby Anderson tag on ao3 and being so blown away that I basically did a cartwheel when I saw you on tumblr. Your fics are the perfect late-night fix that are to-the-point, and your drabbles are filled with every trope anyone could even think up. And I'll shamelessly admit that reading your fics definitely moved Joel up quite a few slots in who I liked most within tlou.
𖣂 My recommendations: 'Texas Hold 'Em' + 'Uncharted Territory'
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@the-kr8tor - Spiderverse, f/m, sfw
𖣂 I gotta say, this third movie needs to speed up so more people can come here and see how well you write for the spiderverse. Finding you in the tags was like a breath of fresh air, and your series works have kept me up at night on more than one occasion because of their binge-worthy goodness! From the adorable drabbles of Billie and Ramona, to the ups and downs that come with being a pirate, your works keep me invested even in the first, second....twenty-something times I've reread them.
𖣂 My recommendation: 'Our Place In The Middle Of Nowhere'
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@s-4pphics - TLOU, Arcane, sapphic
𖣂 I hope you know that when you released 'The Call', it kept me up at night. Seriously, you're a genius. Maybe this style has been written before but it's the first time I've seen it. And amidst all the Sevika and Vi works that were being pumped out after the release of season 2, that fucking gem was put on my feed and it genuinely blew my mind. It was the perfect combination of crack-style fic and dark humour, coming together to make this smutty, hilarious, jaw dropping fic that had me pacing around my room a couple times - one of my favourites of all time.
𖣂 My recommendation, obviously: 'The Call'
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@taintandviolent - Ahs, f/m, multi-fandom extraordinaire
𖣂 First of all, your username is fucking genius. Like actually, it had me saying it out loud and having such an OHHH moment and now I can't stop thinking about how cool it is. Secondly, if anyone has a taste for dark, gritty, horror infused tropes, or loves anything Evan Peters just like I do, her blog is the way to go. Her page is unapologetically for the monster-loving girlies who 'can fix him', and there's a little bit in there for every fandom that finds her. You're one of my favourite authors to send requests to, and you have definitely made me see Bill Skarsgard in a different light as of recent. 𖣂 My recommendation: 'Ouija Board’
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lenorenevermore99 · 18 hours ago
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Why 457 is actually valid af and not just a "joke" ship
I wanna start this by saying that I'm in no way, shape or form convinced 457 is canon nor I think there will be anything remotely romantic between the two of them in season 3. But people seem to think it's just a joke inside the fandom, while actually, their dynamic is pretty fucking valid and I want to analyze that in this post.
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One of the most discussed things (if not the most) when it comes to this ship is the stares.
Some think this is the stare of love, others think In-ho just enjoys seeing him suffer. Well, let me tell you it is neither.
But before we delve into the way In-ho stares at Gi-hun, we first have to go back to talk about Hwang In-ho as a character.
As we know, Hwang In-ho is the Winner of the 2015 Squid Game. He went into the games so he could have the money to treat his sick, pregnant wife, much like Gi-hun who did the same for his sick mother. Both of them won the game, but both of them were too late to save the person they loved from a sad fate.
This lead to In-ho becoming the Frontman. We don't know exactly what happened in the timeframe between him winning and him becoming the Frontman, but we can safely assume that after loosing his wife, In-ho lost faith in humanity. The games have destroyed him, they turned him into the villain he is today.
And the thing is, when he looks at Gi-hun, he sees his past self in him. This was confirmed by both Lee Byung Hun (In-ho's actor) and the director of the show himself.
Or to be more precise, he sees his past self. He sees who he was before the games changed him. And this is what led to his fascination and obsession with Gi-hun, because here's the thing; the games traumatized Gi-hun, but they didn't break his faith and hope in humanity, like they did with In-ho himself.
And this is the thing that, in my view, both fascinates and deeply angers In-ho. Deep inside, subconsciously, he is thinking, "Why were YOU able to retain your hope in humanity? Why were you able to remain a good person when I couldn't?"
In-ho was genuine when he told Gi-hun he wished he'd try to be happy after winning (or to better say, surviving) the games. I find it especially interesting when he tells him "Just pretend it was all a dream."
In-ho wishes he could pretend it was all a dream, but he couldn't. Think about it: he's a billionaire, but he lives in a shitty, small apartment. He doesn't talk to his mother, he doesn't talk to his brother, he doesn't even go visit his wife at the cemetery. Pardon me for borrowing the phrase from The Hunger Games, but he's not living the life of a victor. whether it's because he feels guilty or something else, I guess we'll find out in the next season, but that's not the point. The point is, that In-ho wants Gi-hun to do what he wasn't able to do after he won. He wants him to be happy because he sees himself in Gi-hun.
This is the most important point in this post.
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Now I wanna focus on these moments. During the second game, during mingle, and during the lights-out massacre, we see Gi-hun being absolutely destroyed over the players that were killed. He's undoubtedly blaming himself for it. And here we see In-ho staring at him, not with the look of love, not with joy at his suffering, but with sorrow. He's sad for Gi-hun, because he could have spared himself further suffering if he didn't stubbornly decide to go back into the games.
What In-ho is thinking right here, in my view, is; "See? There is no hope. There is nothing you can do. Stop torturing yourself, just give it up already. How much more pain do you have to go through before you give up? Accept you can do nothing and go on with your life. Try to be happy."
Now you might be asking, okay, but what does that have to do with romantic love?
Well let me tell you that these feelings I just described can easily and quickly turn into love.
Many philosophers over the centuries have come to the same conclusion; we see part of ourselves in the people we fall in love with.
"The Front Man believes that Gi-hun is wrong in his way of thinking, but perhaps, he reflects on himself through Gi-hun. He does want to destroy Gi-hun's belief. I felt that a small part of him, unknowingly, might be hoping for Gi-hun's thoughts to be right. And rooting for him in some way."
These words Lee Byung Hun said about In-ho, makes me think of Jacques Lacan's theory in particular (which is a rather complex topic and I will try to summarize as shortly and as simply as I can).
For Lacan, love, at least in the beginning, is essentially a form of narcissism. When we fall in love, we're also falling in love with ourselves. We see ourselves in the other person, but we also see in the other what we subconsciously think we are lacking in ourselves. Which doesn't mean the other person will fix us because, at least according to Lacan, this lack is something that can never actually be "fixed".
And I think that's exactly was is happening with In-ho. He sees in Gi-hun what he's lacking in himself. They were traumatized the same way, but reacted in two completely different manners. In-ho became cruel and disillusioned with humanity, while Gi-hun still believes in humanity and wants to save everyone.
I know that this way, 457 seems like a one-sided kind of love, but that's honestly my personal interpretation of the ship. I think Gi-hun could have fallen for Young-il, for the person In-ho was before the games, if they had more time. But the Frontman In-ho? The person he became after becoming the Frontman? There's no way.
Not all loves are meant to happen, not all lovers get to be lovers. Some are meant to just leave us wondering what could have been. Which is what makes transformative works so fun and interesting! From the canonverse toxic fics to the wholesome alternative universe flower shop fics, I think their dynamic is valid as fuck.
I rest my case.
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stardewfanficwriters · 1 day ago
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Meet Our Writers
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This week's spotlighted guild member is Friday!
AO3: https://archiveofourown.org/users/lily_alphonse/profile Tumblr: @lily-alphonse Age: 28 Pronouns: She/Her Guild Member since: November 2024
Fun Fact about yourself? I play the ukulele (badly)
How long have you been writing fanfiction? I only really started some time in 2022 when I wrote a Seb/OC longfic just for myself. The first fic I ever posted was a BG3 fic on Nov 14th 2023, so I've been posting for a bit over a year now! That being said I've always liked writing, and used to write all the time as a kid.
Favourite SDV character to write? Even though I always marry Seb, I think Elliott might be my favorite because I can get so artsy with him I love writing him poetry. Sam is probably a close second.
Favourite tropes/genre to write? I primarily write m/m and LOOOVE angst with a happy ending, enemies to lovers, best friends to lovers, mutual pining.
Your most popular SDV fanfic? Currently its Steamy, a SebAlex oneshot where Sebastian is having a terrible time quitting cigarettes, and goes to the gym to let off some steam. Alex is there and assumes Sebastian has come for a very different reason…
Your SDV underdog fic you wish more people would give a chance? Guardheart. It's a songfic for one of my favorite songs featuring Alex x Elliott in a medieval AU! It is beautiful and tragic and I reread it all the time, I'm very proud of it. But since it's a medieval AU and a rarepair, it doesn't get much attention.
Hear me out: Sebastian is in his mid-to-late 20s. People like to think he's younger because of his style and he lives in his mom's basement but that's normal into late 20s and he has a steady grownup job. His relationship with Demetrius doesn't really make sense if Demetrius came into his life when he was a baby
Lastly, any other fandoms you write for? Yes! I think at the moment I have 15 lol. I mostly write for SDV and Legend of Zelda, but some other big ones are BG3, Fields of Mistria, Disney, and Minecraft
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We are so lucky to have such a talented and prolific writer amongst our ranks! If you check out her fics, please be sure to kudos and comment to show your support for small artists and writers.
If you write Stardew Valley fanfiction and would like to join our guild, please message this blog for an invite!
Credit to @lily-alphonse & @saradika for the banners
Please see AO3 for additional tags. Reader discretion is advised as always.
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gangstalkerbarbie · 21 hours ago
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The thing is that your parents didn't want to have you, I'm sorry to say. Maybe they thought they did, but actually that was social pressure, the feeling that once you existed they would be complete. And then sunk cost fallacy.
It was dumb of them to do, because that's not how it works, and hey, it's ok, mine didn't want me either! People who really want kids don't raise their kids in sort of like a hell where the kids can tell they're miserable because the kid exists, and then when they ask about it the parents are like THIS IS FOR YOU, UNGRATEFUL EGOIST (by your username im assuming that you also got that one a lot). Did anyone ask??? If you could have been happier and had more time for hobbies without me, why did you have me? Oh because your mother/society/God said so? Well do you see the problem?
Also you could totally have spent the time you spent sitting at the kitchen table smoking, drinking and glowering about your misery doing like, needlepoint?
Well adjusted people bring children into a life that's already rich and full and share it with them! Culture is passed on this way. And they don't tell their kids as soon as they reach their teens that ohhh don't get too comfy playing with your dollies, soon you'll grow out of it! Soon your life will also contain absolutely no colour or joy or interest, because you'll be parenting your husband/wife and the grandchildren you'll make for me to play with.
I was fortunate to have a kind of normal grandpa who didn't really do much around the house but look after us, so I got to grow up seeing him just doing his thing in peace, and there was a window in my teens where my mum let me in on her books to have someone to talk to about them. Even still I'm like, wow I'm too old for this, I should be...
But what should I be doing? It's my life. How is the concept of like an old fashioned literary discussion circle, which adults respect as a normal pastime, different from an internet fandom, exactly? How is it different from being a hobby bodybuilder?
Someday I can show my kids the things that make my life brighter, and they can decide if they want to enjoy them too. I don't have them yet because I'm not ready, but why should I stop living my life just because I'm married? So I can what, mindlessly generate blini and wise platitudes for the rest of my life? No thank you, I'm with Tolstoy's wife on this one. I don't care what a genius they are, I'm not subordinating myself to anyone.
I don't have to! Kids actually love it when their parents and grandparents are individuals. It gives them a future of their own to hope for, where they can find love and have their own kids without metaphorically dying in the soul.
Being in fandom spaces is so surreal-
Bc once your age hits a 'serious' number, you start to think - "damn, I should probably stop geeking and get more serious." But then you scroll and see a 34y/o woman writing fics after driving her kids to school, a 40y/o dude making fanart of his fav super heroes and you realize - "nah, I'm actually good"
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alexdswfan · 2 days ago
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Hange and Levi's first meeting in No Regrets and what it means to Levi
I'd like to talk about a scene in No Regrets that gets brought up sometimes by certain people in the fandom, which is Levi and Hange's first meeting, but I don't think fandom talks enough about the emotional impact this scene must've had on Levi, or why that first meeting is so important to him. This scene always manages to make me feel emotional no matter how many times I think about it, hence why it's my favourite part of the manga, because for the first time since Levi, Furlan and Isabel got in the Survey Corps, someone treated them with kindness and didn't look down on them.
The first thing we can notice from the way Hange approached them is how genuine and excited Hange is with what they achieved with the Titan, making sure to include them all in the achievement and not only Levi as seen here by how Isabel tells Hange that their group is amazing and Hange agreeing with her.
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Hange is interested in getting to know more about Levi's strength, but it's in a way where they want to learn from him and get taught by him rather than in an idea of using his strength as a tool. By bringing the other Scouts in the conversation as seen below, Hange encourages Levi to teach them his tricks so they can all have better chances of survival and also kill Titans more efficiently from now on.
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Hange wants to get to know Levi as a person first and foremost, which does impact Levi who hasn't really met anyone in the Survey Corps until that point to be interested in himself as a person and not just as a tool, and in his friends too as he's inseparable from them. Hange doesn't forget about them and even includes them in the conversation in their own easygoing way as seen in this panel.
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Continuing on this idea, one of the most important parts of this scene is how Hange isn't only friendly with Levi, but they're friendly with Isabel and Furlan too, going so far as to give Isabel a treat for the start of their new friendship. It might not mean much, but for people who recently left the Underground where getting treats was probably a luxury or at best hard to come by, Hange's action will impact them far more than some people might realize. These three have constantly been called thugs or have been disrespected until they showed their technical prowess with Titans during their first expedition, so to see Hange push past that barrier by wanting a genuine friendship with them is such a contrast to the way they have been treated by the others all this time. And even when Levi is curt with Hange, they don't give up, inviting them all to a meal after the expedition is over, which shows how much Hange wants to get to know them better as people, and not only as soldiers skilled with ODM gear.
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I think what impacted Levi the most out of that exchange wasn't necessarily that Hange was kind with him. It's definitely important, but when we know how much Levi cares about the ones he loves, how he values their lives much more than his own, it's that Hange was so kind with his friends that really impacted him the most, and I don't think fandom talks enough about it. How affected Levi must've been by Hange's sheer kindness without expecting anything in return from him in a world where that concept simply didn't exist. Levi was being kind with others, but this is the first time we see someone else that isn't part of his group be kind to him in return. I think what Hange did that day for him and his friends meant a lot more to Levi than we realize. Someone in the Survey Corps finally treated them as they should've always been treated, with respect and kindness and not with disdain or even coercion. And Hange isn't bothered by his refusal to communicate with them as seen by Furlan's reply here: "Anyway, Hange doesn't seem particularly bothered."
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They respect his boundaries when Levi doesn't feel like answering since he doesn't want to get attached to new people (we know how that plan failed in retrospect, but he still tried), and that's because Hange doesn't try to force anything out of him. They tried and he didn't want to engage, that was fine with them, they'll still want to be his friend in the future regardless of Levi's answer. And I don't think fandom gives enough credit to Hange in this scene.
This scene will forever remain my favourite in No Regrets because it shows just how incredibly kind and friendly Hange was with Levi since the very beginning. Yes, this has to do with Hange's personality, that it's just like them to be attracted by the new outsiders or misfits and try to befriend them, but the important part is that someone at least tried. And it makes total sense how out of everyone we know, it had to be Hange to carry out that role. Someone caring as much about his friends as Levi simply cannot be hated by him. This scene actually destroys that claim even more, because by this definition, Levi would have to hate the first person in the Survey Corps to actually be friendly with his friends, the most important people in his life at that moment in time. It's again completely nonsensical to say that, and I do think the people who keep saying it either have forgotten this scene exists or they'd rather ignore it because it wasn't included in the OVA. But regardless of the reason, the fact remains this scene is part of the No Regrets manga and is important to delve even further into the relationship of Levi and Hange as it presents the blueprint of their relationship. Supportive and caring for each other until the very end.
Edit: I want to add that Levi definitely felt suspicious towards Hange's kindness at first since genuine kindness doesn't exist in his world. Coming from the Underground, he has all the reasons to be suspicious of Hange (as people have pointed it out in the reblogs). That being said, Hange's intention was to be friendly with him without wanting anything in return from that friendship, and I do think Levi was more appreciative of the whole exchange later in time when he got to learn Hange better. I struggle to say that someone who later in the story becomes one of his closest friends tried to be manipulative with him at the beginning of their relationship like the man with glasses from Bad Boy. Levi would never try to befriend such a person in my opinion. But we all know how their relationship grew instead, where their communication skills are beyond anything we've seen in the manga, so in the end, Hange's intention of becoming his friend proved to be genuine despite Levi's first suspicions. Therefore, I respectfully disagree with the interpretation brought forward in the comments that Hange might've been manipulative with Levi and his friends. Hange has no reason to manipulate them. Let's all remember Hange has no clue whatsoever about the subject Levi, Furlan and Isabel discuss beforehand. They're only interested in the group's prowess and efficiency at fighting Titans, and then later in them as people since they're open to a more meaningful friendship with them three. Someone manipulative wouldn't have cared about being friends with them afterwards.
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tadpolebobatea · 1 day ago
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“Death fears us, we don't fеar death
Don't you dare evеr forget
From our first kiss to our last breath
With any heart that I have left
I will love you more than death”
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I’m not ready but I am filled with much love, It has been so much fun. Soppy stuff under the cut
I really love undead unluck. It’s definitely got a special place in my heart now.
this is my first time engaging in a fandom for real (drawing fan art, chatting with other people). I didn’t know that it could be this cozy? I get to hear these little weirdos in my phones giving their opinions on undead unluck, and see their cool art and I really recognise the usernames. I get to see when someone new joins this little community. (I made some online friends, I’m very happy)
This show has done an absolute number on my art making. It’s given me such an enthusiasm for drawing and making characters. I got into undead unluck in October 2023 I completed 68 drawings that full year. This last year, I made…146. I cannot understate how much joy this series has given me, I adore thinking about the silly guys
Undead Unluck is a wonderful story. The characters, the world, it is all filled with so much love. The idea of living your life the way you want to, because there is nothing more wonderful than being happy as yourself is so kind. Horrible things happen but it’s okay, there will always be love.
Thank you to my irl friends who have been listening to me rant for a year now
Thank you tozuka. It has been an absolute delight
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shmisky · 6 hours ago
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Better world ford meet Reverse portal dtanley
Oh, boy, that would be something!
For anyone reading this, you might want to check out this first, or you won’t understand!
Ok, so. Moving on. I think that Better World Ford can be interpreted in two ways: 1) the one in which he’s devastated by the loss of his brother, but still functional and clinging to the morals he does have, and 2) the more dramatic and darker one in which he’s a bit... cray cray, as Mabel would say, driven mad by grief and potentially overprotective and possessive over any Stan he’d happen to find. From my profound fanfic knowledge, I think most people (not just shippers but the fandom in general) would prefer the second option, hahah. I will try to answer what would happen in both of these scenarios!
Let’s think of reverse portal!Stan first. I assume you can only mean a Stan who went through the portal instead of Ford. I’ve talked about this possibility before, here, and to shorten things: I don’t think Ford would ever genuinely value the “greater good” over Stan. He didn’t in Weirdmaggedon, when he was ready to offer the entire universe in exchange for the lives of three people (Stan, Mabel, and Dipper), and he wouldn’t back then, either, when he had much less discipline and control than old man!Ford. But Ford is a complicated little guy, isn’t he. So there are a number of reasons why he could, hypothetically, decide to not rescue Stan. 1) He assumes Stan is dead, 2) he somehow manages to gaslight himself for a while into believing he values the greater good over Stan (only to regret it bitterly, because that isn’t who he is at his core), or 3) someone (Bill or Fiddleford the Cult Leader) purposefully or accidentally messes things up for him.
Personally, I think the first option is the most likely one. Despite his admirable determination, Ford can be a pretty fatalistic, pessimistic man. When Stan lost his memories, he did indeed believe Stan was lost to him completely, and would have continued to think so, if Mabel hadn’t attempted to resurrect the old Stan through her scrapbook. “I’m sorry. Stan is gone,” he told his desperate grandniece.
Not just that, but there’s a very juicy reason (to me) why Ford would believe so: Bill. Bill, who knows exactly how much Stan matters to Ford. Bill, who already tried to hurt Stan to get to Ford once, in TBoB. (And who turned everyone into tapestry in Weirdmaggedon but spared Stan and the kids to use them against Ford! We have a pattern here!) Ford would sink into despair thinking of all the things Bill could have done to his brother before killing him. I think Bill could go and put more wood to the fire by appearing to Ford and making something up on the spot to brag about, about how Stan screamed and begged for mercy and died thinking Ford hated him. Ford would then assume Stan was really and truly dead, because if he were alive, then surely Bill would make an attempt to blackmail him, to convince Ford to fix the portal to get his twin back. The fact Bill isn’t doing that is proof enough. The possibility that Stan just managed to escape Bill and is still evading capture wouldn’t even cross his mind.
But while this Ford would be utterly devastated with the burden of having killed his brother, Portal!Stan would not know this. No, he would assume Ford decided it wasn’t worth it, to fix the portal and get him back. That he wasn’t worth it to Ford. He could easily be led to think that his relationship with Ford was now wrecked beyond repair. He’d feel like something he never noticed he still had (hope that Ford loved him deep down) was being taken away from him.
Most people, when they think of Portal!Stan think of... well, our canon Portal!Ford, but make it Stan instead. Same thing! But—I’m realizing only as I’m writing this—I don’t think Portal!Stan would be exactly the same thing as Portal!Ford. Ford is, surprisingly, more hardcore in his violence than Stan! There are many moments in the show that highlight this, but I’ll try to be somewhat brief.
Think about it: both of the Stans had their years running from the law. Stan was banned from US states, while Ford managed to make himself an outlaw in many dimensions. A state is inside a country that is inside a continent that is inside a planet that is inside a solar system that is inside a galaxy that is inside an universe that is inside a dimension, and somehow Ford want us to believe he was “just as wanted” as Stanley! Uh huh! Ford managed, somehow, to be known across the multiverse as “armed and dangerous,” even in his younger days, while he still had brown hair (which is what his Wanted poster in J3 says in code, btw!) The aliens were afraid of our guy! Mullet!Stan meanwhile, homeless and presumably struggling to survive just as Ford was, didn’t seem to have a similar (in)fame. We can see his own Wanted poster in his box of memorabilia in Not What He Seems, but they merely list his conman-typical crimes. Don’t get me wrong, he would end up very different from our canon Stan nonetheless. I think he would be just as hard to catch as Ford (Bill would be after him as well, for sure), and perhaps even develop a sense of revenge against Bill for hurting his brother if he put two and two together and Bill appeared in his dreams to brag. He just wouldn’t have the same vibes, imo, and would perhaps rely on different skills, such as his silver tongue and ability for lying and understanding people, instead of making himself known interdimensionally as a dangerous threat like Ford. Bill would repeatedly warn bounty hunters about not underestimating him, but somehow they always would, and Stan would always escape.
Now, now. Finally, let’s talk about Better World!Ford! I said there are two versions of him you could imagine, the more reasonable one and the cray cray one, but no matter the version, he’d be mourning his Stan deeply, like half of himself had died.
Let’s assign some names for them so we don’t get lost, first 😭
BW!Ford = Better World!Ford
BW!Stan = Better World!Stan
RP!Stan = Reverse Portal!Stan
RP!Ford = Reverse Portal!Ford
Moving on again.
I picture RP!Stan visiting the Better World dimension for some reason and BW!Ford immediately wanting him to fill the emptiness caused by BW!Stan’s death. I can’t see BW!Ford not being overprotective of RP!Stan, considering he’d be 1) traumatized about losing BW!Stan and 2) terrified of what Bill could do to RP!Stan. Because again, Bill knows how much any Ford, of any dimension, loves his Stan. Bill could try and use Stan to hurt him! (Which would be, in fact, exactly what Bill was trying and failing to do for so many years, hahah.)
RP!Stan would be shocked by BW!Ford’s transparent and overwhelming love for him. Didn’t every Ford Pines despise Stan Pines? Perhaps BW!Ford was faking his love! Perhaps BW!Ford was just completely different from RP!Ford!
But if so, where’s BW!Ford’s own Stan? What happened differently? Something terrible, perhaps? Did BW!Stan have to die or something for BW!Ford to start caring? But then again, RP!Ford (apparently) had left RP!Stan to die after pushing him through the portal, so perhaps an average Ford wouldn’t even care about an average Stan’s death... (I’m sorry if this is getting too confusing! 😭)
(RP!Stan also considers the possibility that BW!Stan was just a much better brother than him, but that hurts too much. BW!Ford wisely doesn’t tell him about the fact BW!Stan had obeyed his order to take away the journal.)
Let’s suppose that RP!Stan then makes the mistake of telling BW!Ford about RP!Ford, who (apparently) hadn’t bothered to fix the portal to get RP!Stan back. I think BW!Ford would realize what actually had happened, and then he would have a decision to make: to tell RP!Stan the truth or not. If he did, perhaps RP!Stan would then embark in a journey back to the arms of his RP!Ford. If he didn’t...
Here I think it depends on how you interpret Ford (and his morals) to be. I think his morals are pretty loose, but nonetheless he can be pretty noble and self-sacrificing. He could still feel empathy towards his other self, knowing intimately the utter pain of living while blaming himself for Stan’s death. If he decides to be the good, selfless guy, then happy ending for RP!Ford, unhappy ending for him.
Could he believably decide to lie to RP!Stan and say that yeah, his own Ford didn’t care for him? Yes, imo, with the right rationalizion. As Alex mentioned before, Rob Renzetti (coauthor of Journal 3 and his Ford expert) made him understand a fundamental truth about Stanford Pines: that he can do anything as long as he manages to justify it to himself, because one of his greatest powers is rationalizing. I think even a Ford with canon Ford’s morals could justify lying to RP!Stan if he managed to successfully convince himself that what he was doing wasn’t against Stan, but against the other Ford. Ford on Ford violence, if you will. He can be very self-loathing and very hypocritical at the same time, so if he somehow twisted the narrative inside his head so as to paint RP!Ford as the villain who deserved to lose his Stan and himself as the one who will take better care of RP!Stan... Especially considering Bill, and the fact he could consider it unsafe for RP!Stan to leave the BW dimension at all...
And if you want to go a touch darker—now I believe we’re approaching a darker!Ford territory; that is, I don’t believe canon Ford would be capable of bringing himself to do this, but his BW version has been twisted by grief—he could ensure RP!Stan never leaves him quite easily, through many different means, including Fiddleford’s memory gun. That would mean a definitive unhappy ending for poor RP!Ford, forever without his Stan 😔
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dirtyoldmanhole · 2 days ago
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i'm going to be musing about one of gunter's most controversial lines here just because i've been idly thinking about it while drawing.
heads up for dead dove shit.
context: the JP version of Fates:Conquest had a region-locked minigame ("skinship" where you basically pet the character with your stylus lol) where you the player could interact more with a married gunter if you went that route - it also had several JP-only lines which you can read here.
generally they aren't that much different in tone than the EN ones though fun to read (especially since the minigame is lowkey sexual in nature; all the cast's lines were more strongly sexual not just his), but there was one line that uh. raised some eyebrows in the EN fandom when the fan-translators found it, shall we say.
in bold; (i've added some of the others for helpful context; i don't believe all of them are said one after the other, as it's whenever you choose to enter the minigame one is said).
By no means did I think these feelings would develop… Close your eyes for a moment. I apologize… I thought just touching you would be fine… When you touch me like that… Don’t tease me too much… or even someone like me won’t be able to endure it. (TL: He uses the verb “tawamureru” which means to play, joke, or flirt but I decided to liberally change it to tease) You’ve returned. We mustn’t… Oh no… I thought of you as a child but… I love you. Haha… is something the matter? Is it fine for me to touch you too? This side of you… don’t show it to anyone else. My wife… does cute things… I love you. I might have regarded you with special feelings ever since you were young. (A RANK:) Thank you very much for being kind to me to this extent. For as long as you wish it… I promise never to leave your side. (S RANK:) I thought I would always live alone. But you… lit a flame once more in my heart which I had locked away. This time I won’t let you go. I love you more than anyone else.
(... once again touched at how surprisingly romantic he can be)
anyway! oh yes, That Line.
tsk tsk.
given his position of power with essentially raising corrin, you can imagine how some people who already disliked the ship tended to leap on that line as "proof" of him sexually abusing corrin as a child to put it bluntly.
thoughts are still rotating, but roughly in order of:
instinctively (and the most boring position just to get it out of the way) on the first level i don't like how often this line is immediately whipped out to dissuade gunter/corrin shippers specifically but also shippers in general from engaging with taboo sexual concepts. especially when it's just as boringly... crudely blunt as "pedo". (slightly adjacent to gunter fans in general since there's sometimes an uneasy feeling that as long as you don't ship him that way with a 40-year age gap/parental figure/etc there's an exception carved out as "one of the good shippers" as long as you ship him with less of a power differential (eg gunter/shura. note i dig that ship, this is just an example.); though i think this sentiment has thankfully died down as of late versus the early years of fates fandom.)
god that is such a fustratingly common and boring way to engage with media. moving on.
on the second level down, i also instinctively dislike the feeling that it's whipped out to flatten the potential of gunter being romantically/sexually written as either binary concepts of "good" and "bad-touch", with the latter being often pointed out with an accusatory finger. personally i like reading bad-touch gunter for the lulz sometimes. also for the nuance given how sadly complex child abuse/grooming/pedophilia is in real life, and how it impacts the victim in so many ways beyond the obvious. and shocker - i like reading predatory-gunter sometimes even for cranking-the-hog-material! (predatory-gunter is kinda hot, man.) sometimes all of the above at the same time. i think all of these readings is just as applicable and interesting and needful as redemptive-gunter stories. (it's a very similar reason to why i fucking love possessed!gunter noncon what-if setups.)
and the above point doesn't even go into the nuance of can-you-even-have-redemption with the above if you want it. how would that work. how would that work in rev-verse vs conquest (different flavors of anankos possession going on in both. it's so much more complex than your usual grooming story if you frame it that way because his own agency is literally a question mark the entire time, which is endlessly fascinating to me with the horror potential as being a double victim in some ways. is this actually anankos' influence more than anything? how would everyone feel about that? especially anankos being corrin's bio-dad?)
going back to the quote itself there's even several other ways to interpret it that's not a crude (and imo annoying) distraction of moralizing.
like i always found it interesting that for a guy who deliberately self-censors 95% of the time, that he kinda blurts that out in a weak moment (which is already one interpretation, that it's semi accidental). why would he say that to corrin?
seriously, why would he?
i don't think he's trying to scare her off (like he does with some lines when he's a little insecure about his age).
what if he's genuinely fond of and loves corrin with a nuanced blend of fatherly love at the begining but yeah it did turn sexual towards the end (plus fatherly love) and either he doesn't want to exactly interrogate himself when that changed (because i personally think he holds a lot of understandable guilt over these feelings in general), or he isn't thinking about that at the moment and like. how the hell do you relay something like that without caveat-ing yourself to hell.
i think it's one of the few times here he's actually trying to be emotionally honest and vulnerable about how shits' complicated to him too. (and keep in mind he is not in general..... as emotionally aware as the tumblr crowd lol. he's an old man.)
there's a funny line in my head right now of "schrodinger's daddy dom" where society right now is a-okay with a daddy kink from the little's side but metatextually we've created a situation where it's impossible to create a three-dimensional daddy dom that is somehow free of sin and yet has honest to god sexual desires of his own especially in a messy situation like this.
especially in an evolving situation like this when it was very clear by the S-support he wasn't ever anticipating corrin to reciprocate his feelings, and he was dealing with his budding feelings by essentially just keeping it to himself. (canonically, he wanted to do the least-messy thing by not involving himself with corrin. it's only if corrin/you pursue him that he even gets this far.)
the extra funny thing:
all of this is dependent on the translation. culturally, through this whole game of telephone, the line itself may have some other JP specific connotations that we aren't aware of. christ what i wouldn't give to pay a fluent JP translator who didn't mind engaging with dead dove concepts to go through his support chain + these lines and give notes there.
....
and that's probably not even all of my thoughts but it's an essay as-is. :P
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purrincess-chat · 1 day ago
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Cat's thoughts on the state of the fandom
(So take them for what you will)
Saw an interesting take yesterday about the people genuinely complaining that Adrien looks ugly in the new animation and how his character is "ruined," and the take was about how a lot of people in the fandom are the same as people in the show, boiling Adrien’s character down to his appearance and only valuing him for his appearance. And it got me thinking because, in another vein, I've personally seen a lot of people in fandom over the years infantalizing him as being a poor sad cute little meow meow, and when Marinette does anything but pity him for being a poor sad cute little meow meow she's nasty and awful and just as bad and abusive as his father (🤢). But I wonder at what point does the fandom allow him to have autonomy and think and feel for himself? At what point do we recognize his depth? He's a character with a lot of nuance and backstory, and in this new season especially, for the first time he is capable of making his own decisions without anyone forcing his hand now that he has his amok. S6 is for all intents and purposes a blank slate for him. He can finally figure out what he wants to do with his life outside of just being in a relationship or doing what his parents want. And personally I'm curious how they will develop him this season now that he does have that freedom. But maybe I have just always seen him as more than just a pretty face. 🤷‍♀️
Fandom is so quick to denounce change, including change they've begged for. We begged for seasons for an end to the will they/won't they aspect of the love square and for development to happen. Development happened, and now in the eyes of many, the show is completely ruined. Now they want to go back to what we had. Now they want them to break up. Now Marinette is horrible and awful and undeserving of Adrien, but for some reason, being with Chat Noir is perfectly okay and fine and not at all different. Because in their eyes, the narrative lives to serve Adrien and Adrien only. And if the narrative isn't serving Adrien, then it's bad.
I even consider the response to the salt this go around in comparison to salt in early s3. Back when people (including myself) felt that Marinette was being slighted by the narrative, we were looked down on and salt was treated as taboo. Now that people feel like Adrien is being slighted by the narrative, well, suddenly now it's different and okay and no, no we aren't like those other icky salters from before. We love the show. We just are disappointed in it. And as someone who was part of the s3 salt movement (and who wrote probably one of the most famous salt fics during that period), I can say that the people salting on the show now are no different than we were back in s3. Everyone I knew back then started out loving the show. We all loved the characters and the world. But the writers made certain decisions that we didn't quite like at the time, so we gathered to talk about it. We made salt blogs and wrote fic and vented in discords and blog posts. And overtime, some of that eventually spiraled into what it became, and I'm not going to argue that some people went too far. But I see all of the exact same things happening now, and people are insisting that it's different, but it isn't. Instead of 'Marinette changes schools bc her classmates would rather believe a lie than trust their friend', it's 'Adrien and Marinette break up because she's keeping secrets and is awful and doesn't deserve him/we don't like that they were the ones to get together instead of our favorite side. 😤' And in a way, I can't help but notice the undertones of sexism in these arguments. Why are people who defend Marinette icky and wrong and gross, but people who defend Adrien are champions of justice? Haters with "hearts of gold" as it were. Salt is salt. Hate to be the bearer of bad news. It's not different. Just slapped a new label on the same old shit. But this fandom has always had sexist undertones in my experience.
Why when Marinette makes obvious narrative mistakes that the show is obviously setting up to be a source of conflict and character growth do people compare her to an abusive middle aged man? Why is it that in this episode Marinette needs to be sensitive to Adrien being orphaned when she herself has been traumatized over and over by the narrative? To a point that she desperately tries to control everything so her world doesn't fall apart around her again. Why is the fandom able to empathize with Adrien’s trauma and not Marinettes? Why is it that her trauma is downplayed and treated as lesser when we have watched her consistently break down and panic across the seasons? We've watched her exhaust herself and sacrifice her happiness for the fate of the world, but that doesn't matter as much as our poor little kitty cat. And I'm not interested in comparing their struggles or participating in the trauma Olympics because the truth of the matter is they've BOTH been through it. But I've been seeing a trend over the years but also a lot lately of villifying Marinette specifically for every single action she takes. Calling for her to be 'punished' and dumped by the boy she loves because she isn't ""deserving"" enough whatever that means.
Idk. I guess just I just wonder at what point do we just sit back and let the narrative unfold? I reached a point during my salt days when I looked around and saw nothing but bitching and moaning about the same old shit, and I had to ask myself if that was the view I wanted. And ultimately I determined that it wasn't, and then I had to make the decision over whether I wanted to continue watching the show and learn to enjoy it again or if I wanted to just be done. And I think a lot of people in this fandom would do well to ask themselves those same questions and decide. Because at this point I'm just tired of every post being filled with some kind of rancid take on how the show is ruined or Marinette is an awful person or they hope Adrinette breaks up because they were the "wrong" choice (*cough* "It's not my personal favorite side therefore I'm butthurt" *cough*).
Personally, I think we all need to adjust to the new animation and changes and let the story be told. People were so quick to immediately denounce Adrinette just because it wasn't the side they personally wanted to see get together, and instead of giving them a chance, they immediately took up pitchforks and started saying it was bad. But having watched s5 and now the start of s6 with my own two eyeballs, they've modeled a lot of important and healthy aspects of being in a relationship. Communication, patience, benefit of the doubt, meeting halfway, taking things slow, fighting for each other. And it's been sweet. It's not boring or bad. It might not be YOUR taste, but if that's the case, go watch something that IS to your taste. Why waste energy here? The truth is, we don't know what's in store for the rest of the show. We don't know why things had to happen the way they did yet, but as a writer who ya know writes stories, I think a lot of people just need to chill and watch what happens. Because this season just started. We've barely scratched the surface of the story moving forward. How can you honestly say it's bad? You don't know. New and different doesn't immediately mean bad. Change is not automatically harm. Take some deep breaths. Be patient.
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I'm just tired. I just wanna watch two kids bumble around and hold hands and fight bad guys. Damn. Some of yall make fandom really un-fun. And I would like to petition to bring the fun back in, please.
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emylilas · 2 days ago
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Ladies of WOT - a potential community ?
Hello fellow WOT show enjoyers!
I am deliberately not tagging the show because I am aiming for a very specific demographic. Among those who watch WOT and are talking about it in different spaces (discord, twitter, here), I've noticed that people are having very different experiences watching the show, depending on what they want the focus to be on; to the point it might sometimes feel like we're in very different fandoms.
I realise the show is a book adaptation and I understand why people would expect more attention to be given to Rand, or Perin, or Mat, because those are the names who often come back, rather than some of the Aes Sedai who aren't as fleshed out in the book (I'm looking at you, my beloved Liandrin), but I have no interest in developing a sense of community with people who are watching the show for very different reasons than I.
I am absolutely not here for the men of the show, it's fine if you are, good for you but don't come at me. There are some men whose stories I enjoy following, but I'm here for the aes sedai, the forsakens (I can't wait to really meet Moghedien next season), the younger girls, the seanchans... and I would very much love to be able to share my love for the show and those characters, and to enjoy the show with people who share a similar enthusiasm.
Here's my issue, though, I find it hard to build a sense of community on Tumblr, interactions are limited by a very poor comment section, which is a shame.
I don't believe Twitter should be the main place for fandoms, because there's no room for in-depth conversations and everything has to be done quickly, It's more about posting and liking than engaging together.
I enjoy Dreamwidth and it would be, I think, a lovely place to build a community (besides, there is some WOT content over there) but I know it's not the most popular place, and it works more as a forum, which might lack the spontaneity of conversations.
Then there's Discord, and I am conflicted about Discord, on the one hand, it's convenient to chat and it can be well organised, on the other hand... I have wandered on quite a few fandom servers and they weren't for me, except for one. They're usually too crowded and I found that, in some places, the conversations are overwhelming in quantity but there aren't any real discussions.
As for that ONE server that worked for me, that one is quite special. You see, it's a small fandom of a show with a lot of wasted potential, but it's also the best fandom I've had the pleasure to join. People really interact, most of us know each other at least vaguely, we have a general idea of what are people's likes and dislikes, even when they aren't people we've chatted a lot with, and the mods always come up with fabulous events to keep the community living and it does keep on living, even after the show got cancelled in 2022. This discord doesn't have that many people in it, we talk a lot about the show, we also talk about specific characters, talk about ships in their dedicated channels, chat about our progress in our fic/gif/edits and support each other... people are interacting and we're all loving it. And those same people participate in fandom events because what unites us, even if we don't love the same characters or ships, is our love for that same show.
This is this sense of community built on the common love for a show and its potential that I would like to find for WOT, and more specifically in this case, about the women of WOT (but of course, talks about the show as a whole are always welcome and encouraged, it's just that watching with a preference for the female characters really change the conversations ones might have...) Especially with the new season coming in March, with all those new intriguing women that joined the cast, it would be lovely to have our little corner somewhere to chat together, as a small part of a bigger fandom, rather than individuals floating in the big WOT show tag and struggling to connect.
(And maybe those places already exist and I just haven't found them yet and I'm the only one struggling to connect. In this case, if you know places, please fill me in, I am dying to connect with fellow ladies of WOT lovers.)
So I guess that's it. I would love for us to get a chance to better connect, as show lovers (book readers are welcome, but please, be really mindful of spoilers, I am sick of being spoiled things even though I muted tags because people believe using emojis to talk is good enough to prevent spoilers, like we don't have functioning brains enough to put 2 and 2 together...).
To sum up my wish list: I wish we, those of us with similar interests (I don't care which women you enjoy in WOT, I love them all and they're all interesting, even if I have my own preferences I will gladly chat about any of them with you), could create a little corner in this big fandom so we can start acting as a community rather than separated individuals scrolling through tags. But a community who takes its time, to have nice little chats about the show and its women, to discuss our ideas and hypothesis, to share our thoughts and headcanons about our favourite ships (and yes, please, let it be plural and not just one ship) and characters, to support each other's in our writing, drawing, giffing, editing... all that, free of the drama that too often seem to happen in fandoms. A little place where we could always find someone who's up to chat a little about the show, and its women.
(Little place, because I really think once you're over 100 persons in a discord server (and probably less) it becomes nearly impossible to really get this feeling of a community).
So I'd love to know your interest in building such a place, and where you think it would be the most convenient for you!
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mechanical-sunchild · 1 day ago
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I want to start by saying that this is just my own opinion, I am not an authority in any way. I also do not say what I'm about to say to tell you off or 'hate on you' in any capacity. I can only say how this came off to me, and go from there. There is an tl;dr at the end if you only want to see the advice and not the whole breakdown of why I give it. Context: I may have multiple 'types, but when it comes to my involuntary fictomere, I am extremely serious and have been awakened this way for almost ten years now. I am very serious about every aspect of myself, especially this one and identify as physically nonhuman/holothere. I continuously take steps to live as myself physically including having changed my name to the 'right' one - as you describe - so I believe I am possibly the target for your term and thus I decided to comment.
I love the time and effort you have put into this, much more than I have done with any of the soft terms I have coined (though only theriform ever took off I think) and I can tell that finding a word for those in your situation is very important to you.
I'm not sure jumping away to a new term instead of addressing community issues is exactly the right way to go about handling dissatisfaction with your communities. Especially when it is impossible to make sure that the behaviour won't simply start again in the new community.
I do think a term like thespiad could exist though, if only in the hopes of creating a smaller nicher community under the 'fictionfolk/fictionkin' umbrella with more singular experiences and wants/needs for their identity. I'm just not sure if this is the term as it stands now, of if perhaps it needs some tweaks first.
My main issue therefore has nothing to do with the word itself but with your motivation, or at least the way you have phrased your motivation.
I know a fair few that use the fictionkin label (whether they like it or not) who are as serious as you about who they are, and about living in as much as possible, the life of their true self.
"[...] it is often now associated with fandom culture and the 'voluntary' exploration of new identities."
I also know many who seem to me to take on new fictional identities rapidly and without thought and though it's easy for me to wonder if they're actually constelic, or otherlinking, or jumping onto fictionflickers and calling it fictionkin which they should not be - I only see the online side. I don't see the internal side, and I can't tell how deeply they feel their identity, or how long they've been considering it. I don't know how long they spend offline thinking about their fictotype.
We can't judge whether this is voluntary or involuntary from a snapshot of this persons journey as they decide to show it to us.
"The community no longer fully captures the complex experiences of those of us who view our fictional identities as intrinsic rather than chosen."
Are you talking about 'Kin For Fun' here? This is one of the issues which needs to be addressed and our words reclaimed instead of throwing baby out with the bathwater. If you are referring to those who don't seem to be 'as serious' as you and therefore can make the identity and concept feel 'watered down' to you, see my above paragraph about you/us not really knowing what's going on for them including whether it is voluntary. Most fictionkin I talk to and see do not think their identity is chosen - which is within definition of the term - so I'm really not sure which circles you are in but perhaps you should get out of them.
"The current community primarily emphasizes exploration and acquisition of new fictional identities, much more than the further development and understanding of existing ones."
Again, you have no idea how much these people are pouring into each and every new 'type they present. You are unfortunately coming off as judgemental towards those with multiple 'types too, simply because you dislike the way they talk about their newly awakened 'types. I have multiple 'types, not all fictional, but I am also very serious about my fictotype as mentioned above. Where do I fall?
I get the need to find people to have deeper talks with. I would like to do the same. You are not wrong for being keenly interested in not just figuring out 'who' but 'why' and 'how' and 'what does this mean?'. I want to express that clearly. I just think you have quickly chosen to judge the behaviours of other fictionfolk for experiencing themselves differently to you, or supposedly different, and therefore have assumed the whole lot who use the term 'fictionkin' are hopelessly unserious and have corrupted the community somehow. I frame it this way because you present your opinions as 'fact' about the community by the plain way you state it.
The way to encourage the development and understanding of existing fictotypes in the community is to talk about yours in ways that encourage others to talk about theirs in similar ways and create spaces where this is not see as 'spamming' or 'boring'. Online interactions generally favour quick, witty, funny, relatable comments over deeper talks so many fictionkin will prioritise these interactions which get them attention over other things they might genuinely want to do but fear nobody will care about or judge for. That bothers me too, but it's not a fictionkin issue, and needs to be addressed not avoided.
"My fictotype expands beyond just online expression and would exist regardless as to my involvement in the community."
This is true of the vast majority of those who use the term fictionkin whilst genuinely understanding what experiences it is meant to convey (i.e. are not KFF).
"For those who involuntarily identify as fictional characters and have a desire to live them out physically, I believe we deserve our own distinct community. The fictionkin community faces challenges in being taken seriously, both internally and externally, and it is crucial that we begin to assert our identities with the seriousness it deserves."
Yes, we do struggle to be taken seriously, and we do need to assert our identities as crucially serious - by dispelling misinformation about what fictionkin means and how it presents as an identity. I really don't think that simply adding a new term to the vast amount out there is going to result in us being taken more seriously, it just gives up the fight for the word fictionkin in a sense. But also from your above comments I once again fear that what you mean by this is that you're casting a darkened eye towards those you are simply assuming are not as serious as you because they express themselves differently to you.
If this is intended for a term used by physical fictionfolk, then perhaps just say that (as you later do) without all of this part about fictionkin. That at least is an identifiable distinction from the broader fictionkin which does not require physical identification and needs, just an internal sense of identity. It feels though like we're having two talks here, one about wanting a identity for more physically identifying fictionfolk and another where we just take little bashes at the fictionkin community for seeming to behave in a way we dislike.
I'm also not sure if the prefix is the best chosen, although I actually adore how the whole word sounds if I'm honest - simply because of it's association with acting. You probably don't want people being pedantic about it like some are with 'kin means family!!' and say that well since it's related to acting, that means you are acting/roleplaying. Same with the symbol which although cool, is associated with simply playing a role.
tl;dr If you are to coin this term officially, consider the association with acting as a word origin and symbol might give the impression that this is a term for those who are acting/roleplaying an identity. Also, regardless of your internal reasoning, remove all mentions of fictionkin from the definition/information related to the term as it comes off as more you expressing a personal negative opinion of the community rather than relevant to the term at hand. The only part you might need to keep in, for context, is
"In contrast to the broader Fictionkin label, “Thespiad” emphasizes the desire for active transformation and alignment with one’s fictional self physically."
As this one does clarify why and how it is different from fictionkin without looking down on the term in fictionkin or those who have a community around it in any way.
“Thespiad”: Proposing a New Term for Fictionkin Who Involuntarily Identify as Fictional Characters (Under Discussion...)
This proposal contains extensive research and thoughts that I have spent considerable time processing and organizing. It is still in the early stages despite hours poured in, and I am finally opening it up for public feedback. I value your perspectives, as they will help me identify areas I may have overlooked while developing this terminology. If you have suggestions for a more fitting term or wish to share your own experiences, please feel free to contact me.
Purpose
While the term “Fictionkin” is predominately used, it is often now associated with fandom culture and the 'voluntary' exploration of new identities. The community no longer fully captures the complex experiences of those of us who view our fictional identities as intrinsic rather than chosen.
The current community primarily emphasizes exploration and acquisition of new fictional identities, much more than the further development and understanding of existing ones. As a result, I have struggled to find a sense of belonging within community spaces in recent years as I actively seek to express my fictotype in my daily life as that is who I am. My fictotype expands beyond just online expression and would exist regardless as to my involvement in the community.
For those who involuntarily identify as fictional characters and have a desire to live them out physically, I believe we deserve our own distinct community. The fictionkin community faces challenges in being taken seriously, both internally and externally, and it is crucial that we begin to assert our identities with the seriousness it deserves.
The “New Term”: Thespiad (Θεσπιάδης)
Pronunciation: /THES·PI·AD/ Etymology: The prefix "Thes-" is derived from Thespis, the ancient Greek actor who is often credited as the first person to perform as an actor in the context of Greek theater. The suffix "-iad" is a classical suffix used to denote a group of people with shared characteristics or traits.
Usage:
Thespiad: A person who involuntarily identifies as a fictional character and actively desires to express it.
Thespic: An adjective to describe traits or actions related to being a Thespiad.
Thesp/Thespiotype: A specific fictional character that an individual identifies with (e.g., Pikachu from Pokémon).
Thespiades: Plural form of Thespiad.
This term, though rooted in the Greek language, is not synonymous with the modern term “Thespian” (actor), which has become more generalized.
Who This Term Is For?
The term “Thespiad” is intended for those who experience an involuntary identification as a fictional character; When you are a Thespiad you identify 'as' that character. This distinction is critical: it is not merely an identification or connection with a character, but a deeply felt, intrinsic sense of self. In contrast to the broader Fictionkin label, “Thespiad” emphasizes the desire for active transformation and alignment with one’s fictional self physically.
This can involve actions such as changing one's name, relocating to a place reminiscent of your source's setting/location, or altering one's appearance to match that of the fictional character. These practices reflect an attempt to embody the fictional identity in real life.
The Process of Development
In developing a new term, I explored various linguistic roots from Latin, Greek, and Old English. However, many of the terms I curated with this method were too vague or didn't come across as practical. These terms didn't feel inclusive and seemed shaky in definition.
So, I turned to researching about historical people who showcased a similar nature to that of fictionkin (though maybe not exactly) or significantly influenced the storytelling we create and consume today.
Historical Origins
Thespis (Θέσπις) could provide a meaningful historical precedent for this term. Often considered the first actor in the context of Greek theater, Thespis revolutionized storytelling by stepping out of the chorus to portray individual roles, thus creating the idea of the actor as someone who "becomes" the character they portray. His contributions laid the groundwork for modern theater, in which performers transform themselves into characters, not merely to portray them but to bring life to them.
This historical figure could serve as a metaphor for our experiences as Thespiades—individuals who identify with fictional characters not as an act of fan admiration, but as a form of personal and transformative expression.
Metafiction and Fictional Identity
Fictionkin identities often intersect with the concept of metafiction, which explores the boundary between fiction and reality. For Thespiades, the experience of identifying with a fictional character is not purely imaginative but is an essential part of our reality. By acknowledging the gap between the real and the fictional, we can better understand the nuances of this identity. This intersection underscores the need for a term that encompasses the lived reality of these individuals—one that acknowledges both the fictional nature of the identity and its deep roots in personal experience.
Our Symbol: The Drama Masks 🎭
As part of this proposal, I suggest adopting the drama masks—symbols of comedy and tragedy—as a unifying emblem for the Thespiad identity. These masks have long been associated with theater, transformation, and self-expression, making them an apt symbol for those who seek to align their real-world selves with their fictional counterparts. Just as these masks convey the performative nature of theater, they also reflect the process of self-discovery and transformation that many Thespiades undergo.
If you find that this new terminology resonates with your experience, I would greatly appreciate your feedback. Similarly, if it does not fully align with your perspective, I welcome your input as well. Please note that this post is still a work in progress, and I will continue to refine and update it over time. Thank you for taking the time to read and engage with this content.
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naquey · 1 month ago
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The shows may have ended but fandom is forever, even if its you and your friends writing about your blorbos
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pnfc · 6 months ago
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i haint watched the dang chibisode and idk if ill actually watch it with sound on sdfjk but i have a hurt feeling about them casually imbuing perry with speech for a one off gag because the idea that he needs to talk to communicate is fake. we had 4 seasons of wacky magic hijinks cartoon where perry never needed verbal speech to communicate. they couldve done this gag at any point in the show but they didn't, and the fact that they didn't felt significant. perry's muteness is such a core part of his character, to me, to the way i conceive of him/write him. i don't wanna overreact to a goofy little side cartoon (even tho i'm doing it anyway) but it's still the characters, and it still upsets me! ok that's it i've said my piece
#ill watch it at some point but despite my silence i have been like obsessively anxious about this cartoon#and pestered my friend to watch it for me sDFJKL#in a month this will have either ruined pnf for me forever or i'll have changed my mind and i like it actually its fine#for now anyway i have tons of comic sketches about perry's muteness that i no longer wanna finish and share...maybe someday but not now#i had a rly great day actually but now im falling asleep in bed tipsy and a little teary over this. cuz i love perry a lot he's#really special to me. i also got that star wars perry shirt in the mail today btw. and. it's such a good pj shirt#but back on topic#it sucks when an aspect of a character that is CORE to your appreciation of them becomes casually disregarded by the writers at some point#like im certainly not ever accepting an interpretation of perry like 'secretly hed really like to be able to talk' because its#never ever been communicated. like the idea that heinz wd prefer if perry was human. its just not in the show. the opposite is true in fact#so im left feeling stupid for caring about something that some writers(inc. dan) felt was unimportant. makes me not wanna continue my art#which sux cuz i like my comic ideas! id love to finish them. i hope i get over this.#i overreact to live-updating media when im fixated on it wh is why i prefer getting into dead fandoms haha#but they keep on bringing them back to life dont they...im never safe#it was funny me trying to explain to my friend why i efel so strongly about this meanwhile hes tried to explain why he feels so strongly ab#ut AYA and my stance on that episode has always just been “cute! its fine” lmao#@ dwampy you guys made the show that follows a specific rhythm and set of rules designed to appeal to obsessive autistic brained people ok#you invited my overreaction. unsheathes katana etc#ok im goint to sleep#meta
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quietwingsinthesky · 1 year ago
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Dean is such a paradox for me because on the one hand, I have been actively triggered by him in the show, there are moments where, intentionally or not, the writers managed to create a portrayal of manipulation and abuse and control issues that it sets off actual alarms for me. And on the other hand, I would not have him any other way. There is something — not comforting, that’s too soft a word — about knowing where Dean’s actions stem from, having seen and learned all that we do about his childhood neglect and parentification and the trauma he goes through repeatedly in the show, and that he doesn’t come out clean. He comes out a goddamn mess who ends up hurting the people around him in reaction to his own pain!
There’s a reality there that’s. Almost nice, actually. Distressing to watch, but it is a fucking mess, it’s a good mess! He’s got zero healthy coping skills and a healthy relationship with say, his brother, is terrifying because it leaves him open to abandonment!
I’m not sure I’m wording this correctly. There is a way to be a good abuse victim. Take the pain, martyr yourself on it, and then, even if you have no support or idea how to, then you have to become a Good Person who never hurts anyone the way you have been learning to your entire life. Simply toss everything that shaped you out the door and emerge a saint with a tragic backstory. And Dean is not that. And that’s so fucking good. Everything that he has gone through continues to effect the way he treats the people around him, and he can’t fight the behaviors he might recognize as harmful because he also sees them as protecting him (or protecting Sam by keeping Sam with him.)
And sometimes, idk. It feels good to see a guy who didn’t heal the “right way.” Who mostly didn’t heal at all, just keeps the wound open because it’s easier that way.
#there’s a whole other bit to this about how like. it’s hard for fandom to hold the idea that someone can be both a victim and abusive#at the same time. that the ways someone has been hurt don’t always shape them into kindness and wide-eyed sympathy. occasionally it just#makes them hard to live with. and I think most obviously is the thing that a lot of what Dean does is an expression of love. of protection.#he’s very much his father’s son in that way. that’s why Sam. the guy he’s been Told to protect his whole life. is also the person he ends up#hurting the most. it’s tragedy. it’s realistic. it’s a good fucking mess.#and that’s why I don’t get interpretations of dean that are determined to shave off the ugly parts of his character. to me those are the#parts that make him a character worth revisiting. he’s so full of love. and he uses it to hurt people. he means to sometimes. a lot of the#time he doesn’t but hurts them anyway. he has been shaped by violence his whole life. and it’s just. I get why someone might take this#part of him away. to make him easier to love. because I get that he’s stressful to watch also like I get that. but he is.#he is compelling. in his anger and his controlling behavior and his strangling love. he is compelling in all the ways he has become this.#Dean’s degradation into these behaviors can be both a failure of a show that ran to long but also the believable trajectory of a man who#can’t heal. and I love him for that. I love him for emerging from pain as a angry sharp thing. I love that it brings the glimpses of him#being gentler and recognizing his actions as bad into stark relief. I love that this recognition often only lasts until he is hurt again and#then he backpedals into the safety of behaviors he knows will allow him to control a situation through force or manipulation.#it’s good fucking mess. you know? dean winchester everybody.#maybe I should have put all that in the main post. oh well. too late now.#spn#dean winchester#tw abuse
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rogerbarel · 5 hours ago
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I am very fond of interpretations that are, "the text, but a little to the left," because I think they tell us about what the reader finds interesting and meaningful. I want to see things I wouldn't have thought of! There are as many Treys in this world as there are readers, and that's exciting! Tbh I originally came from the TWST community on Twitter, which did NOT see it this way and loved to throw around the accusation of nonexistent media literacy (while clearly not knowing what that entails), so I didn't share my thoughts very often.
I agree, that person would have to prove it! Trey is too cautious to be so forthright with just anybody, and I'm sure he knows that some people think they can handle the truth when they absolutely cannot. That process of earning trust is something I think about a lot and want to watch. Sorry to Vil but l I kind of love his "spoiling/babying." Some of us want a little of that in our lives!! l think that even if he manages to drop that anxious anticipation of every possible bad outcome, he will still be prone to spoiling his loved ones (with a big side of teasing). But he's gotta have a positive--not so anxious--relationship with that behavior before he can indulge in it without risk of burning himself out. Basically... I hope he can take that babying urge and apply it not to avoiding crisis/placating people, but showing appreciation when he wants.
I also love a self-indulgent HC. I've been in different fandoms where people were way more willing to go off the walls with those, and I miss it. I just wish we had a chiller fandom environment, man. I love his lil mean streak!! I've referred to the TWST boys as sour patch kids in the past, and I'll stick by it. Mean on the outside, something not-nice-but-perhaps-more-affectionate on the inside. Trey is just kind of reversed in that regard. I don't think he'd pull a Floyd Dorm Card busting down someone's door if he didn't check himself, but he could get... Hmm. What's the word I'm looking for... Sneaky? The tiniest bit sleazy? And also shady. Definitely shady. There's definitely some deadpan sarcastic internal commentary going on there.
The teasing is one of the BEST parts of a big brother archetype!! 😭 He's a tease, kinda goofy, and plays childish pranks when he can! Like Malleus, his juxtaposition of maturity and childishness ends up making him cuter imo.
I want him to be doted upon! Praised, spoiled, given what he deserves and then some! 😭😭😭 He wouldn't have a damn clue what to do with himself! This reminds me of how much I miss Ghost Bride. Trey got absolutely no game... Either he's gonna woo someone half by accident or someone's gonna have to eat him up.
Nope, never cried! Just kind of... in shock. Where did he develop that habit of immediately trying to fix things? Is it because he's an eldest brother who needs to be (and look) reliable, or something else? I think if he cries, my wailing will be heard throughout the world. I'll put it on my wall.
I know he's more popular, at least with yumes, in JP, and I've seen a blog or two discussing that his subtlety is probably a big part of that. Not only is this an EN/JP difference, but it could an age difference, too--EN has a younger audience, supposedly, who are perhaps less charmed by the concept of "Boring" but steady.
I think people consider him both boring and not... as visually exciting... as much of the cast lol. He is just a guy with grass on his head. And so, as you said, people aren't as interested in delving into his appeal. I think a small twist would be nice. Something to give Ace and Deuce a good surprise when they get into his dream. But not a supervillain one. Albeit I will probably still be in love with him if that happens, too. (I actually kinda like Hans ngl. The buildup sucks, but conceptually he is so yummy.)
Triple-Layer Cake/A Half-Baked Trey Clover Ramble
I've done this rant in more private places but am finally putting it on tumblr. This is going to be its third rewrite (if you count the time I did it as a fifty-tweet thread on yumepriv, which I'm not sure you should), but it is probably not any more cohesive since that isn't my strong suit. I'm basically throwing possible motivations for Trey's behavior at a wall and seeing what sticks. I also still don't know if I'm cooking, stating what everybody already knows, or am drawing completely unreasonable conclusions unsupported by the text. Nonetheless, I scream into the void once again. Actual material under the cut.
contains spoilers for EN-unreleased birthday vignettes
A while back, before I was even on tumblr again, this screenshot of a tumblr post about fandom misinterpreting a character in the exact way that character would want to be misinterpreted was floating around. And it made me think of Trey because approximately 50% of things do. For as long as I've been adjacent to the fandom, there's been this whole debate on how much of his "responsible big brother" image is deliberate/fake vs how much of it is genuine.
And I don't know if I like that more either/or approach to him. Trey's like Shrek. An ogre. An onion. He's got layers. But he's also a baker, and cakes are sexier than onions, so I'm opting for the more thematically appropriate analogy even if it doesn't work as well as far as visibility goes. (Although I suppose you might taste the layers separately/in order.) I'm honestly just being stubborn with this analogy. Bear with me, please.
Everybody sees his nurturing top layer, both in- and out-of-universe. But beneath that, he's a little selfish and vindictive. There's no denying this based on how he capitalizes on any chance to incur a favor as well as his preferences for revenge over forgiveness (see: wanting to watch Savanaclaw get their asses handed to them after his injury, making his underclassmen eat their cataclysmic cake after they insulted his work, Doodle Suiting his upperclassmen's cakes to be ultra spicy after they threw him under the bus as a freshman). He even admits to Epel that he's not a good person. He knows what he is.
But the way he does it has always sat oddly with me. It seems like overkill. Unnecessary. Why not let people think well of him? It reminds me of Vil's labwear vignette where he downplays his skills. He gives a too-quick protest that Vil suspects is part of an intentional image of humility. In that case, insisting that he has bad traits is just showing that he has another trait people tend to like (modesty). It's not like Epel responds to Trey's self-effacement by saying, "Oh, you really must be kinda shitty if you say so!" So I think this modesty contributes to his super average "everyguy" image as well as lightly dissuades people from thinking he's too good or reliable. No "You can count on me!" hero volunteering.
If he seems too nice, like Neige, folks might become suspicious and start playing closer attention to him, especially at a school like NRC. They may either want to see him finally snap and show what he's "really" like (to be fair, I also want to see him snap), or they may look for a way to take advantage of him. And he has enough on his plate as is!! Can't have more people who think he can shoulder it all. Trey needs to be unremarkable, so he needs to remind people that he has flaws besides his taste in hats, even if he rarely lets them show. (More on why they don't show in a bit.)
I think my reading diverges from some others' (at least those I've seen in the twt circles I inhabit) here: Even with all his vindictive tendencies, he's still deeply devoted to his loved ones. I don't think it's accurate to say that the cruel, manipulative Trey is the "real" Trey, or at least the whole real Trey. It's just a part of him. The care that he shows for Riddle, his siblings, and the named Heartslabyul characters is largely genuine.
He can act selfishly, don't get me wrong. It bugs me when people forget that. He's been dismissive toward Cater in favor of Riddle (moreso in EN than JP), and he subtly and not-so-subtly manipulates people for his benefit and the group's benefit multiple times. But it's not necessarily because he sees them as tools or playthings, which is a reading I've seen a surprising amount of times. (That being said, it is a fun one if you're exaggerating a character's villainous traits! I think he could treat someone like this under the right circumstances. You could write Trey with more of this quality, and it could be believable. But I don't think it cancels out his ability to care for people entirely.) It's just something he thinks is at least somewhat acceptable to do to others, even his loved ones. Maybe he rationalizes it. Maybe he can't help but find a little pleasure in playing with him, no matter how much we cares. If we can accept that Jade shows Floyd and Azul love through his desire to put them through an emotional saw trap, it's not too far-fetched to suggest that Trey's definition of love allows for manipulation or desire to see someone cry. He can rationalize lying to them for the sake of stability or not letting them know about his own desires. I also think that the internal conflict between "I care for these people deeply" and "I will still manipulate them" is more likely to drive him to admit that he's not a good person than not caring for them at all. Seems like a bad strategic move to admit that if you're really just using them as playthings.
Trey doesn't always know the best way to support his loved ones (understandable! How many of us struggle with this far into adulthood?) and thus conflates the stability they need with an unrocked boat. He doesn't recognize that a situation like Riddle's is inherently unstable and always will be if nothing changes. He, at least at first, seems to believe that the shitty situation you know is better than risking it all and potentially losing everything. He knows that he's failing Riddle, but what can he do? From Trey's perspective, he is a large part of the reason--if not the reason--that Riddle was locked away from the world once. What if he fucks it up again? What if he loses Riddle forever this time? (I think this history and fear is also one that keeps him from trying to close the distance between himself and Cater.)
Convincing himself that he's a bad person (which seems like a needlessly heavy judgment for the fairly mild pettiness we've seen from him in the text) might also soften the blow if things do go wrong. This way, he can convince himself that he didn't care as much as people assume he did. Love doesn't go into the things he does, or so he says. (It's even more questionable since he directly contradicts this statement in his alchemy dialogue. What is the truth, Trey Nicole Clover?)
So, to bring it all back around to the Trey cake, I think his bottom layer is anxious. And tired. Not in a way that is consistently, consciously anxious. Don't write him up a Prozac prescription yet. He's internalized these ideas that he shouldn't be noticeable, because when he does noticeable things, they go very wrong. His purpose is to keep people's lives running smoothly. So he sends those caregiving tendencies into overdrive. He's got it covered, he doesn't need more to cover, and hat's all anybody really needs to know about him. Even that is a bit too much sometimes.
Based on how Trey talks about his family, I don't think he was neglected or super duper parentified, but he doesn't talk much at all about things that they've done for him in comparison to how often he talks about what he's done for them (cooking when his parents' work took precedence, sewing his siblings' Halloween costumes, getting Magift tickets for his brother). He never shows any bitterness about it, and I think their relationship is genuinely pretty okay. No resentment there. But it is noticeavle, and he also won't even be straightforward about what he wants for himself on events where he is expected to want. He says he's joking after requesting that other people take on his chores for the day on his birthday; he uses indirect rather than direct methods to persuade Riddle to get a food processor for Heartslabyul during Starsending. Dude, you probably could have just asked.
I think Trey has this idea that he doesn't need to (or at least shouldn't) ask for anything. If I reach reeeeeeeealllll hard, I could say that one of our biggest examples of Trey wanting and pursuing something as a child--Riddle's friendship--clearly traumatized Riddle, and it had a massive impact on Trey, too. So Trey learns not to want, or at least not to be SEEN wanting.
Is this why he wants to seem so average, unremarkable, modest in others' eyes? Because wanting something is dangerous, even if it's just recognition? Just how much did the loss of one his best friends as a child fuck him up? He might not even recognize the mental association he makes; lots of people don't until they've done a lot of really intentional work about that. He just says it's easier this way, to be a cog in everybody else's lives. And it is, to some extent, but it's also deeply frustrating and exhausting. (I'd like to see more interactions between him and Jamil, who also hides his true potential, and very clearly suffers for it.)
So I think some of Trey's middle layer pettiness--not all of it, since his birthday vignettes show that he's been a bit of a troll ever since he was a kid--comes from the tension between his visible "caretaker" layer and his ultra-hidden "appreciation would be nice" layer. He reminds me a little bit of a mom who occasionally wants to snap because she feels like she does everything, and everybody just takes it for granted. He's not all "let daddy take care of you kitten," but he's not all cruel and calculating, either. And he might be less vindictive (but no less of a prankster) if he felt appreciated, but he's never going to tell anybody that he wants that. (There's a nonzero chance that he finds openly craving emotional validation somewhat too feminine for him because he's one of the only characters to comment on something being embarrassing "as a man," the other being Epel obvs, and I, like many others, have zeroed in on what this could mean about his feelings on masculinity overall in comparison to other chars. Some people think he's a straight up closet malicious misogynist, but I doubt it. That's a whole other conversation, though, which would probably run entirely on vibes.)
Does he even recognize that he's got a third layer to his Cake of the Self any time other than when Kalim semi-inadvertently calls him out? Or does he consciously push down the desire to be apprecaited? Is it painful? How painful? Does he want a break, or just acknowledgement? Does he feel like the desire to be a caretaker can't coexist with the desire to be gifted a break, to be the one taken care of for once?
This has been really really all over the place, and I apologize for that, but it just really gets my goat when people don't consider that third layer. "Trey is just a shitty guy who doesn't experience attachment or empathy (and goes out of his way to say the things he does aren't about love and then contradicts himself later) or guilt and simply feigns kindness" feels too easy. Like another thing he'd be happy to let others believe so that he can continue to hide something else. And I, in my delulu heart of hearts, think that "something else" is desire and the fear of it.
I'm currently divided on if I think the boys' dream bubbles represent their wants or just what Malleus thinks they would want, but either way, I'm hoping Trey's dream will give us a little more insight into his head. And if I was wrong about all of this, then I'll go sleep under the bed for a while and cry about how much of the fic-that-only-exists-in-my-head must be rewritten, but at least we'll have some answers. Oh Heartslabyul, I miss you so.
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