#but not like just queer rep but more complex shit

[russenoire]

i hate to say this, but it seems to be mostly queer fans attacking writers and artists and actors (who may or may not be queer themselves!) for not making impeccable queer representation. and it sickens me.

the deep anger at being left out or misunderstood by culture at large is understandable. the virulent hatred, the doxxing, the harassment, the smear campaigns that force people to out themselves at risk to their safety or livelihoods just to, maybe possibly, be left alone online to create?

no. just no. this is actually evil.

i will add that this misdirected anger from the marginalized hurts all of us. ALL OF US.

because people are complex beings and literally no one is perfect representation of any marginalized group. intersectionality is real and a great many people can claim membership in multiple socially shat-upon groups.

because every line of what you see onscreen had to be fought for, lest it run too far afoul of some influential conservative cultural group or executives too afraid of lost sales due to such. if this happens, these stories don't get told AT ALL.

and what the actual fuck constitutes 'perfect queer representation' anyway? no one character or relationship is going to satisfy every queer person, ever.

let people tell queer stories. plural. and leave them the fuck alone.

So, just curious how many writers and creators will have to be forcibly outed by relentless harassment before we acknowledge that "This queer characters was written by a cishet person and that's why they're bad" is not good criticism.

[nightcolorz]

whenever I see the occasional critic that the Dean (community) is problematic lgbtq representation I think of that scene in the last episode of the show where Britta tells her hypothetical pitch for a season 7 where she says if she made their lives a show she’d change the Dean from an insane queer man with a gender and sexual identity that is apparently so complex he refuses to explain it to anyone or identify with any particular lgbtq label to a cisnormative trans woman and cut out “all that other stuff” to make the Dean more positively representative of what most normal queer ppl r like and the Dean looks aghast and horrified as if he was just called every slur in the span of a minute bcus someone literally just casually said to his face that she would choose to make his identity and personality more palatable and easy to understand so that the lgbtq community won’t get a bed rep bcus in a show he’d be “bad representation”. Like lmfao 10/10 no notes. Community really said unproblematic lgbtq representation meant to make the community look good has so many more offensive implications then insane queer characters who don’t give a shit and that’s on period

[chaifootsteps]

If I shipped Stolitz -- and I used too -- I would have been horrified at Apology Tour, and a lot of people were. Here are two characters you want to see in a loving relationship that improves both their lives, are promised it's coming, and all they do is scream, shit-talk one another, drink heavily, throw themselves at other people, and talk about how miserable they make each other.

I think you summed it up so well. And it’s only going to get worse. Vivzie is torturing her audience with a deeply abusive destructive relationship, lying to them that it’s actually a really cleverly written “complex” part of the process of becoming healthy, and telling them to just keep tuning in and keep true believing. Conditioning them to defend it the way Fizz defends Mammon. “She’s just…trying to make the story mature and complex! That’s all.” Putting out romantic merch of them while the show airing tells a very different story. Slow burn is supposed to be slowly falling in love not slowly poisoning blitzø into submission.

Her alleged goal is to have them be “healthy” as a couple in sinsmas but the way Blitzø is behaving so earnest and sweet to a guy who has treated him like crap, and still does, kills me. All because his ex wife slapped him Blitzø starts dating him and according to that song, blaming himself. What do you make of Blitzø behaviour in that leak? I just….do not know who that is.

And the fans are excited for stolas to cheat (apparently, since they’re dating at the same time) on him with vassago while he feels jealous and racially inferior to the other Goetia. Wow how exciting. Blitzø being hurt and in pain because of stolas. Can’t wait.

I hope in time this story is lambasted for its abuse apologia. It seems like abuse is okay if it’s “gay rep.” And queer men are just so horny that their SA is more upsetting to their abuser doing it, than to them. Because ‘top’ men are so sex driven they can’t be abused. It was only when they saw fizzozzie that people recognised they’ve been scammed.

The whole thing's knocked us straight back to 2001 in our understanding of gay relationships, consent, and abuse in LGBTQ relationships, and that's terrifying. All of that progress undone -- in the minds of a swathe of fanbase, at least -- in the space of one mediocre demon cartoon.

[crooked-wasteland]

Something that always irked me a little was seeing fans say HB/HH have good queer rep. There’s been other adult/children animated shows that done it better. I think the reason fans say that it has good queer rep is it because they get to see the characters have sex, instead of characters having actual chemistry and good interactions.

No one in HB or HH had good chemistry. Charlie and Vaggie are just nonexistent or they should’ve been a slow burn from friends to lovers and blitz and stolas is the worst mlm ship because they don’t have anything they just have sex, they’re just meaning less sex that have to be a couple.

Husk is an asshole to Angel, he just shits on sex work and guilt trips Angel so he doesn’t take drugs but because Cherri is meant to be seen as the negative influence we’re suppose to take husk side and say no to drugs.

I don’t even consider fizz and Ozzie a relationship because they’re just sugaring, but fizz has a unhealthy codependency on Ozzie who kinda goes along because he gets to have sex with fizz and that too to me sounds like the spirit of lust. Doing immoral actions for you’re own selfish wants and desires. If fizz and Ozzie was rewritten and in the hands of a better writer this could’ve been a thrilling toxic story about a powerful prince of lust manipulating his insecure vulnerable lower class imp plaything and hundreds like him, in the spirit of lust

One of my unpopular opinions is that Elemental had the best examples of queer representation in Ember and Wade. And I am aware Ember and Wade are cis gendered and in a heterosexual dynamic. My point being that representation does not always have to be explicit to be profound or accurate. The movie gives Wade an unconventional form of masculinity that validates a nurturing expression that is stereotyped as inherently queer. Additionally, Ember's lack of identity due to the expectations of her family, father, and culture mirrors the existence of many queer individuals who fail to recognize they are bisexual or even gay due to the implicit pressure placed on them to fulfill the typical roles of their society.

Many people take the story in face value, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with seeing it as a story solely based on race, discrimination, the complexities of coexistence, and interracial love.

However, representation does not have to be explicit. There is absolutely plenty to be argued that by having an openly queer relationship moves to normalize the concept socially, but the unfortunate reality exists that (1) queerness is still inherently othering and you will not be able to normalize the existence of queer people just by shoving them front and centre. If anything, it is interpreted as a threat to the dominating social norm that causes people to reject the concept outright compared to subliminally connecting the ideas and experience of queerness to a more universal norm, building on tools and experiences to help others relate to our existence despite them never being able to truly live it.

And (2) movie-making and media is a business. A very expensive one. So risking hundreds of millions of dollars on explicit queerness that is still extremely fringe in most societies is, frankly, bad business.

The issues in representation for HH and HB comes down to what you said here: weak chemistry and toxic dynamics. These aren't good representations, not because they have these problems, but because these problems are overtly ignored or seen as not issues at all. There are a ton of harmful stereotypes that work in our society to keep queerness from being seen as normal or valid.

"Lesbians aren't real because how can two women ever love each other the way a man can love a woman and vice versa."

"Gay men just think about sex all the time. There is no love in their relationships."

"Bi/Pansexual will just have sex with anything."

"Sex is the highest form of romance and so any deviation from the strictly acceptable expressions of sexuality in society is a threat to love and relationships as a whole."

"Queer people are the result of brain damage through drug abuse."

"Queer people are the result of childhood trauma and/or sexual abuse."

"Who's the woman/wears the pants in the relationship?"

All of these statements are real social perceptions and stereotypes of the queer community which Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss directly contribute to. The narrative and characters adhere to every single one of these ideas at some point or another without ever challenging them and oftentimes reinforces them.

I understand and respect people who don't see Elemental as queer representation just because the characters do conform superficially to heteronormative standards. But just making a character gay doesn't make the story or series queer representation, and these shows definitely don't have good representation.

[stvrpst]

Bummy shippers are some of the weakest links I've ever seen in a fandom😭 Imagine being a die-hard buddie shipper for years just to give up when the writers throw buck at yet another romance with little chemistry or buildup simply because Tommy is a guy.

I'm glad Buck can explore this side of himself, but that doesn't mean I'm going to settle with a lazy and inadequate excuse for LGBT representation. Have your opinions, but the writers could have handled Buck's storyline far better, and it's clear they're being lazy about it because Oliver has been so fucking silent about the entire relationship as a whole.

There is a difference between shipping gay couples and being borderline fetishistic. You're nasty if you're shipping only to see two men kiss and fuck, rather than for the important reasons, to see a beautiful queer story with chemistry, depth, and buildup between the two

Which I'm sure half of bummy shippers are guilty of. Because bummy literally has the same build and chemistry as all of Buck's previous relationships, if not less. The same relationships you were complaining about weeks ago.

I thought y’all said we needed to stop putting buck in relationships that lacked chemistry and build up?💀

Why is it okay now? Cuz Tommy’s a man? I hope y’all are aware of how stupid y’all’s asses sound.

Cuz to claim Tommy is complex, or even has an ounce of characterization is absolutely insane, and hypocritical. His only attributes is him being a racist misogynistic asshole, and a borderline boring ass character.

And news flash! just because people want to see a realistic, queer, slow burn romance that isn’t rushed or built off of envy and jealousy, doesn’t make them homophobic. It has nothing to do with homophobia, it’s about chemistry and depth, and the relationship as whole. I could give less of a fuck if tommy is a man.

People can have their opinions and it doesn’t mean they’re homophobic just because they clocked the fact that the rep media is pushing is repetitive and shitty. It just means people are not wiling to settle for just two guys kissing. We want more then that.

"Why can't we just enjoy this!" Because it’s people like you who make media feel comfortable enough to hurl poor excuses of LGBTQ representation at us.

you're a bunch of weak fucking links who fold at just a fraction of poorly written stories about a man kissing another man, rather than advocating for authentic, original, compelling, and well-written representation for us.

And then you have the nerve to whine about our poor media reputation. You are the reason why. They see you folding at a man kissing a man and decide to just throw it in our faces without putting in the effort, like "Here!" "Now shut up!"

Because you don’t pressure them enough to actually look into and understand genuine queer representation. Y’all drool and foam from the mouth at just the thought of two men kissing or fucking, and that’s what they give us.

It's obvious that the "rep" we got was shit, because if it was good, why is half the rep y’all think we got, just made up headcanons? Why do you have to pay $200 for someone to discuss it and provide headcanons? Why is Tommy's entire non-existent personality based on headcanons that are neither canon nor depicted in the show?

Why is the relationship in general on Twitter and here primarily made up of headcanons? I promise you, if the representation was really that good, you wouldn't have to pay $200. If Tommy had true complexity and characterization, you wouldn't need to create all of these headcanons because it would’ve been displayed on the show instead.

If the representation was that good, Lou wouldn’t have deluded y’all with all these headcanons. He wouldn’t need to, cuz it would’ve been shown on the show. But alas, we got jack fucking shit, and now y’all have to rely on headcanons to give this relationship some substance and legs to stand on.

Like this isn’t about ships, and whose better or whatever the fuck. This is about getting good representation in media. This is about getting beautiful, complex, queer stories, which Buddie already had the foundation for.

And instead of the writers taking the perfect opportunity to tell a beautiful story that could’ve been told between the two, the writers decided to throw in a random ass white man with zero characteristics or chemistry with Buck. That’s why people are upset.

“They’re just mad because it’s not their ship!” and they have every right to be mad that it’s not their ship, because unlike yours, their ship had all the key components and foundational build that the writers could’ve used to bring a beautiful queer story to life. But alas, they took the easy way out.

It’s a reasonable response.

I don't understand criticizing and mocking people because they're outraged that the writers fumbled an opportunity to show accurate representation in media. I do not understand how the responses to the writer's poorly written storyline is homophobic.

I really don’t.

Also, some of us are tired of seeing the same boring ass gay white couples over and over. That shit is repetitive. Some of us, who are POC or even just white, want to witness a beautiful interracial queer couple. It's not all about your queer, white ass. The world already revolves around you. Excuse us for wanting to see some interracial queer representation.

Pushing for greater queer POC representation is not homophobic.

Do you know what is homophobic and racist tho? Being actively opposed to having an openly queer Mexican lead character because the idea threatens your bland ass, white ass ship.

So you'd rather keep them straight, knowing that there are Mexican and Latino queer fans that identify with Eddie and see him as a comfort character. But let's rescind the representation they could get so that another white queer couple in the media can capture their attention.

[youhideastar]

Why you should watch Story of Yanxi Palace

It seems ridiculous to do a promo post for literally the most-watched television show on the planet, but I follow a lot of accounts that post cdrama gifs, and I don't think I've ever seen a single Yanxi Palace gif, and that's a tragedy.

Story of Yanxi Palace is a 2018 period drama with 70 episodes, set in the harem of the real-life Qing Dynasty Qianlong Emperor and featuring some real-life events and characters from that period. Our heroine is Wei Yingluo, a teenager who enters the Forbidden City as a maid, seeking to solve and then avenge her sister's murder. It was a smash hit when it was released, although it was later censored. You can find it on Viki.

If you liked Nirvana in Fire, you will probably like Yanxi Palace: Wei Yingluo is very similar to Mei Changsu in all the best ways, in that she is devious, ruthless, occasionally very funny, driven by revenge, and possessed of a fundamental core of decency despite her scheming ways. She is also a fifteen-year-old girl. (At the beginning of the show, that is - the drama spans more than a decade.)

Wei Yingluo's relationship with the primary love interest, Fuca Fuheng, is also just *chef's kiss.* She suspects him of her sister's murder, tries to secretly off him a couple times, and he then confronts her about it and hands her a knife, saying, "If you really think I killed your sister, you can kill me now. I won't stop you." We've all seen this scene a dozen times in assorted movies and shows; she loves him so she can't bring herself to do it; she'll drop the knife, they'll embrace--

Reader, Wei Yingluo takes that knife and STABS HIM IN THE CHEST. She stabs him in the chest!!! How can you tell she likes him? Because he survives the experience. Barely.

After that, you think this is a Mei Changsu/Mu Nihuang pairing where there's a relatively normal person who loves their devious little meow meow--and then Fuheng turns around and gaslights Yingluo with zero remorse and you realize that this pairing is actually 100% deranged 4 deranged. The shit these two do to each other and for each other is completely unhinged. At one point, she kills his wife and the two of them never talk about it. Not before, not after, not ever. Legendary. He calls her his zhiji. They will convince you that the height of romance is marrying other people but knowing one another so deeply that you can coordinate intricate political schemes without ever communicating with each other because you can predict one another's moves with perfect accuracy.

Also, the costumes, sets, and props are ridiculously beautiful (and historically accurate!), the characters are like 20 incredibly intelligent and complex women and then like 4 hot dudes, and the score is incredible.

Is there queer rep, you ask? Nothing explicit. But there are a lot of female characters who have very intense, passionate relationships with other female characters. Also, there's a subplot where the Emperor suspects the Empress is having an affair with one of his consorts and you can see his point; finally, there's a character who is intentionally set up to have a very ambiguous sexual orientation: I think you could plausibly argue that he's ace, that he's bi, that he's gay, or that he's straight. I'm not sure even he knows.

There's a lot more to love about it, but when a show's been streamed more than 15 billion times (yes, with a b), I feel like I don't have too much to add. 😂 Give it a try!

[mermaidsirennikita]

Do you have any queer historical romance recs? Are there any upcoming 2024 queer historical romances that you’re excited for?

Absolutely, I have recs! As for 2024 books, I'm currently most looking forward to You Should Be So Lucky by Cat Sebastian, which is an m/m romance set, I believe in the 50s, set around the world of baseball.

I also just read A Sweet Sting of Salt by Rose Sutherland (out 4/9) which I SUPER recommend if you want a f/f romance set in the 1800s, with a touch of fantasy. It's about a prickly midwife who finds this mysterious woman in the middle of the night, literally about to give birth. She helps her, and her husband turns out to be a local fisherman. But... something isn't right... both with the husband, and with his wife's origins. And when the husband realizes the women are falling in love, he only becomes more possessive. I promise it's romantic and has an HEA and doesn't feature overwhelming sadness (there is domestic and sexual violence alluded to, but it's brief and off the page).

As for historicals otherwise...

M/M

We Could be So Good by Cat Sebastian--set in the same general era and space as the 2024 release, I think, about a pair of reporters slowly and sweetly falling in love, especially after they become roommates (and they were ROOMMATES).

The Secret Lives of Country Gentlemen by KJ Charles--about a guy who moves to the marshland after he becomes a baronet, and has to take care of his estranged father's family left behind. He finds out there is a crime family of smugglers controlling the area, and he rats on them after seeing something sus... But when he goes to testify, who's there to stop him but the guy who he used to anonymously hook up with! JOSS DOOMSDAY. Joss Doomsday is amazing I love him. Super sexy, funny, and definitely focused on a side of England you like, never see in historicals.

The Nobleman's Guide to Seducing a Scoundrel by KJ--the standalone followup to the last book. In this case, another title is inherited, and this time the lord's this gruff former soldier. His cousins or something contest his inheritance, and he hires this young, charismatic secretary (especially important because our lord has a hard time reading, which I felt was done in a really touching way). Anyway, the sexual tension boils over and they start hooking up on the low, but there's a SECRET. (Also, the lord is very like "I'M ABUSING MY BOSSLY POWER" while the secretary is like "I mean... abuse it some more.....")

Band Sinister by KJ Charles--kind of a queer sendup of gothics, this is about a young guy whose sister is like, always spying on their scandalous neighbors who hold orgies and shit for the sake of writing her novels. Then she breaks her leg and ends up laid up in the orgy house, and he rushes over like NO ORGIES FOR HER, but he realizes the group of friends is actually super cool, especially the verrrry siiiiiilky smoooooth one who's just soooooo suave. So good, and especially interesting in that, while I would definitely not call this a poly romance, it does explore the complexities of open relationships and polyamory.

The Queer Principles of Kit Webb by Cat Sebastian--Kit is a retired highwayman running a cafe, and suddenly this vERRRY pretty nobleman comes in flashing his very nice ankles and asking Kit to steal this mysterious book from his dad. Kit refuses, but agrees to teach Percy how to steal. Both are great, but omg PERCY is AMAZING. He's kind introduced as somewhat like... conventionally more on the femme side, but he's like a secret swordmaster, and also takes the lead with Kit sexually a lot. One of my favorite moments in this book is when he's blowing Kit and Kit thinks he's gone too deep and is like "SORRY" and Percy rolls his eyes and makes Kit grab his hair and start facefucking him lmao. Also has nice demi rep in Kit.

Something Fabulous by Alexis Hall--A frosty duke proposes to a woman he was always supposed to marry, and she subsequently goes on the run. He then has to pair up with her dramatic, fanciful twin brother. It's a really funny romcom, with a ridiculous duel that had me wheezing. Plus a semi-cultlike group of lesbians? Also, enthusiastic ass eating.

F/F

An Island Princess Starts a Scandal by Adriana Herrera--A cold vamp widow wants this business deal with a fun and flirty heiress, and the heiress agrees to make the deal... If the vamp agrees to show her LESBIAN PARIS. Hot, and both of the leads are Latina.

Mortal Follies by Alexis Hall--Adding this even though it definitely has a good dose of fantasy, because it's like... Jane Austen meets a Midsummer Night's Dream, with an emphasis on the fairies. This young deb ends up hexed so her dress is unraveling at a ball, and as she hurries into the pushes, she meets the mysterious Lady Duke, who's rumored to have murdered her brother and father. They begin this push and pull of seduction. It's both funny and kind of dramatic.

Trans/Nonbinary

Something Spectacular by Alexis Hall--the standalone followup to Something Fabulous. The runaway fiancee's ex, the genderfluid Peggy, is roped by said ex into attending an opera. The ex wants to seduce Orfeo, this gorgeous castrato soprano, and when they open their mouth to sing Peggy, who's very gruff and in control typically, faints. Orfeo is naturally like "WHO'S THAT" and begins pursuing Peggy rather than the ex. One of my favorite books, so funny (at one point they accidentally incite a gay orgy) with a hint of melancholy and great sex. Also, it has one of the most unique sex scenes I've ever read.

Unmasked by the Marquess by Cat Sebastian--a bisexual marquess makes a new friend in this young dandy in town. They kiss, and he thinks his friend is going to blackmail him... But the friend, Robin, turns out to be chamber maid in disguise! Except they're actually not a man or a woman, and don't want to live as a woman. It becomes as an FWB thing, but naturally our romantic hero falls in love and things become Fraught. Has one of my favorite "resentfully horny" moments, when Alistair is watching Robin from across the ballroom, and they pull a glove off with their teeth, and he's like "THAT IS IMPROPER" and wants to fuck them so bad.

A Lady for a Duke by Alexis Hall--Viola faked her death at Waterloo in order to live as her true self. Years later, she's pulled into helping her old best friend, the Duke of Gracewood, who's suffering from a chronic injury and severe depression following the battle. At first he doesn't recognize her... at first. Has an absolutely INCREDIBLE moment of recognition, and I really like that it's this romping old school type romance with a trans heroine.

Most Ardently by Gabe Cole Novoa--this one is actually a YA Pride and Prejudice retelling, highly recommend if you're open to it. In this case, the Lizzie character is actually Oliver, a trans boy, and he and Darcy fall in love--molly houses are included in this, which I really like. It's not super about historical accuracy, which I personally dgaf about, and it's very sweet and funny and warm. Also, the author is a trans man.

Queer Polyamory

Scandalous Passions by Nicola Davidson--FFM. A king's former mistress is sent away because the queen hates her, and is also asked to care for the king's ward. She and the ward begin to give in to their attraction, and at the same time their escort is this much-feared knight (who's really quite subby) who's been in love with the older heroine for years. And then he begins falling for the ward as well.... Super sexy medieval, with Dom/sub overtones.

Their Marchioness by Jess Michaels--A playwright is asked to a marquess and marchioness's home... Turns out he and the marchioness were in love before she was forced to marry the marquess. Fortunately, she and her husband are now very much in love, and he's basically gifting her a tryst with her old love for her birthday. Then he joins in... and it begins being more than sex. Has some bi awakening stuff.

M/F with Bi leads

The Perfect Crimes of Marian Hayes by Cat Sebastian--a standalone followup to Kit Webb. Percy's stepmother Marian is having a correspondence with a blackmailer, who unbeknownst to her is her odious husband's secret son. He ends up falling in love with her as they go back and forth with letters, so when she ends up in trouble and on the run, he comes to "save" her, only to find that Marian ain't that girl. Both leads are bi, and the sex is really cool and interesting because Marian doesn't like penetration due to trauma surrounding her pregnancy and labor. So she penetrates him (among other things) instead.

Hugo and The Maiden by S.M. LaViolette--a successful sex worker ends up being transported and washing ashore after a shipwreck. He's very snarky, but finds himself up against the vicar's uptight and uncompromising daughter--but he still has enemies lurking. Hugo is openly (for the day) bi and services both men and women. I really liked that even as he fell in love, his bisexuality wasn't like this background thing--he sees a guy he likes at one point and is basically like "if I wasn't taken......."

Any Duke in a Storm by Amalie Howard--a spy (who's also kind of a lady pirate) ends up being attracted to her super rakish and slutty first mate. She's bisexual, and one of the women on her ship is her former hookup (still her friend), which I like.

Melissa and The Vicar by S.M. LaViolette--a madame goes to a small village to recuperate and de-stress, and ends up falling in love with a virginal vicar she's so sure she can't have. Melissa is bisexual, and I thiiink a woman she used to be involved with is on the page? Her hero, Magnus, kind of has a "oh shit am I bi?" moment when Melissa tries to fake him out by pretending she's hooking up with Hugo. To be fair, everyone wants to fuck Hugo.

In Which Margo Halifax Earns Her Shocking Reputation--a scandalous woman begins chasing her sister (who ran off with a Bad Man) along with her brother's best friend, who's secretly in love with her. Margo is bi, and her relationships with women are one reason why she's considered scandalous~.

[loneswaggingranger]

So... my thoughts on the latest season of Sex Education is a little... jumbled, but overall I give it, like, a 7/10. Here's just some of the parts that I liked and disliked (rmb that this is just my interpretation of watching it and is no way conclusive against other interpretations)

Spoilers below!

Likes

I like that Cavendish is kind of a turn-tables situation where queer/left-wing-progressive ppl are at the top of the social food chain. It realistically shows how even in a space where discrimination of any kind is prohibited, there will still be complex issues that need to be discussed, e.g., toxic positivity, accessibity issues etc.

I also like Eric's whole storyline of finding himself with God. I'm not religious or anything, but I feel his storyline are going to empower a lot of religious queer people.

Adam is always a favourite. His actor just brings so much to the table and his performance is always outstanding. His closure scene with Eric was 💖💖

I love that the show confronts Otis' standing of privilige and how he's sidelined his friendship with Eric. I also like how the main relationship that got repaired was his and Eric's. It's nice to see platonic friendships take the center stage over romantic ones.

I love that Maeve and Otis show how an amicable breakup, still full of love, can be. It shows that if you love someone, you'll love them enough not to hold them back.

Maeve's funeral speech, and her scene conversing with Jean at the dining table made me weepppppp.

I also loved the different ways of grieving the show shows with Maeve and Sean. Sean was clearly in pain, and as the older one, he'd probably seen a bit more shit than Maeve. And he was valid for not wanting to do the funeral because of the pain his mother caused him. But also, Maeve's wish to honour her mother one last time was commendable as well. She remembers the good AND the bad of her mother, and that's just really big of her.

I loved the scene with her telling her professor that a teacher's word holds a lot of power.

I love Maeve's arc entirely basically.

Dislikes

O's entire character was... problematic. Like she did quite a number of problematic things that weren't addressed in the storyline at all. Like she presses her way into other's vulnerabilities without them giving her explicit consent. She looks at things that by all terms, should have been left strictly confidential (Jean's paper about Otis, for example) and then brings it up as if it were a completely okay thing to do. I really wanted to like her, like I see where she was coming from and she has really cool style and she's the only East Asian rep for the show. Just, as an East Asian person watching this (though I'm not from the UK), it just felt very othering that the ONLY East Asian rep in the show had to be played against the main character. I didn’t like her because she was the story's antagonist to the main character. If there were other East Asians in the series, I might have felt better about it but like, O being the only one, and also being a problematic character just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

I really think Adam's storyline could have been integrated more into the Cavendish storyline. Coz right now his just feels like it's hanging on the side with no real connection to the main plot. I love his horses tho.

The show should really have stuck with its existing characters rather than broadening the scope to... Jo, for example. Anwar and Olivia could have been explored. Idk what went on behind the scenes but like, for a final season, shifting the main focus to the main cast and just a couple new ones should have been enough. I love that it's working to be diverse and inclusive, but jam-packing so many different experiences into one last season just felt... jarring for the season's ending.

[thousandyearphantombunker]

(vent)

TOH fandom feels this need to 'stick it' to other kids shows and show them how TOH 'did it correctly' but they don't understand what shows like Amphibia's SVTFOE and SU etc etc were going for. And the whole 'the show was cancelled excuse' drives me freaking insane! I grew up watching Spectacular spider man, x men evolution and GLtas and those shows got screwed over so badly- but they used their time efficiently to establish stories and characters etc so no you can absolutely can give everyone in your cast good character and relationship development establish important plot points and elements and villains within a short amount of time.

SVTFOE went through awful seasonal rot yes but it knew how to balance highschool drama with adventures amazingly (also it's mix of random xd humor and dark comedy was done a lot better imo) Amphibia despite its flaws is a very well done fantasy story (and has some great diversity in it and more subtle allegorical stuff surrounding being a foreigner and oppression- it's not the most deep show ever but it absolutely has depth) and im gonna say it Steven Universe while not a masterpiece by any means (it does share most of TOH's flaws) is just objectively better than TOH. Especially when it comes to diversity! More diverse body types, more diverse personalities (not everyone is lovably dorky- steven is a crybaby soft boy who matures into a charismatic leader, amethyst is a rambunctious tough bruiser, pearl is an intellectual insecure knight whose lost her cause and garnet is a stoic cool leader etc) and has jewish and south east asian rep and while no one talks about it Amethyst is good disabled rep (she's got the alien equivalent of dwarfism, the alien equivalent of a developmental disability and she has an arc surrounding how she views these aspects of herself) it handles mental illness very well and yet it has this horrible reputation as being super racist and inappropriate to show to kids- which is an opinion people are allowed to have about this show especially if they are black or poc or whatever- I'm not gonna call their opinions BS there are some good points they make about the whole 'angry black woman' stereotype but as a Puerto Rican girl with autism wasn't allowed to make any mildly negative comments about TOH and how it handled neurodivergence or how I didn't even register Luz as afro latina without fans saying I was full of shit and just completely media illiterate- the human zoo in su was depicted as bad but made one or two off color jokes and therefore the show is irredeemably evil- okay then but now you can't fucking harass me over saying TOH had some instances where the disabled rep fell apart a bit (i wouldn't even say that the show is over all ableist or godawful it just had moments that could've been handled better) but um no I'm not allowed to say that apparently- if you get to call my complaints bullshit because your a 'queer poc' then i as another queer poc gets to complain about the show you think is untouchable (i won't cause that's really mean and you have legitimate points) the logic this fandom uses to justify being an asshole to others drives me up a wall. SVTFOE handled revisionist history and colonialism better. Steven Universe had actual fucking diversity. Amphibia had actual layers and complexity that gets totally ignored. But no all shows have to have super blunt representation, and pretty art styles with flashy animation and we must shame all people who have even the most tame criticisms of TOH. The owl house isn't a horrible show but it has its flaws and people who complain about them bring up valid points and since some of you seem so up in arms needing bringing up race guess what? White people also get to call out TOH's flaws. So many kids shows get disregarded as having no depth or being stupid and I hate that TOH fandom also gets in on that nonsense.

Your show is cool we get it now stop fucking putting other kids media down. I'm not gonna say you should be thanking Steven universe or adventure time or gravity falls for laying down the groundwork so TOH can exist you get to criticize these shows but maybe don't get shocked and call everyone who says something you dislike media illiterate and say our complaints are BS? Cause we can easily say the same to you-by your logic I can say all your complaints are full of shit and harass you over liking the collector because of how he treated king, by your logic I get to call you racist and homophobic etc - which we can agree is a bullshit thing to say right? And also it's just mean. You can complain that Steven Universe getting cancelled isn't an excuse for its shit writing in some episodes (I agree with that) just also be aware that Im holding toh to that same standard. You can complain that SVTFOE had an ending you hate because of how ooc and pointless so much of it was- agreed but I get to say the same shit about toh

TOH is not immune to the criticisms you lob at other shows and screaming media iliteracy at the top of your lungs doesn't shut down arguments as well as you think it does

[dyke-a-saur]

Finished watching Heartbreak High and I gotta say, I feel like they pulled off Gen Z High School really well. Like I could go to school with these absolute agents if chaos.

Okay but important business:

Amerie

I loved her the second she popped up on screen. Her energy, her personality, and her friendship with Harper. It was just the best. At times tho, I could see why the other characters antagonized her. After all, it was just as much her map as Harper’s and she put people in awful situations. Not to mention the reveal that she failed to let Harper in, then had the nerve to say she’d always be there. She even did the same to Malakai (tho it’s clear she acted out of trauma from her and Harper’s friendship gone sour)

Dusty

Fuck you. Youse a bitch, a snake, and truly a shit stain on the trousers of humanity. Work on yourself. Big soulful eyes tho.

Ca$h

Arguably the second most emotionally intelligent character in the show? Definitely better at it than Darren and his relationship was so refreshing? It was neat to see it not be a “I like dudes, oh no,” storyline and instead “I’m ace and just need to better express that to my partner who I love and adore”. Also that “I love you scene” was peak ghetto and I loved it. Darren’s Baby Daddy really behind bars, huh?

Malakai

This man. Is so fine. So sweet. And so funny. I love the way he gets to know Amerie and then befriends her and then becomes her first. And even if he handled the peer pressure to talk about the details poorly, he wanted to do right by her. I also loved how they explored the kinship he had with OTHER BLA(c)K CHARACTERS. It was nice to see how much he healed by being in his community and being surrounded by love for his culture. Missy being a big part of that was beautiful.

Harper

I did get the "spoiler" that she went through "something traumatizing" right before the start of the show, then later got more clues from Tumblr. So i had more patience with her character at the start, being honest. But goddamn it was so hard to watch her shut Amerie out and lash out at her. It also sucked seeing her antagonized in the second half because if she could've reached out or accepted people reaching in, then I feel like shit could've been handled better. But after seeing the events of "that night" I could totally get how and why she would want Amerie out of her life. Fake as hell for not owning up to the Incest Map tho. I was constantly whisper-yelling at my phone "girl, get it together!'

Quinni

No notes. Love her. She's the best. Also the most emotionally intelligent character (not a surprise and fuck you Sasha). She helps so many characters process their emotions, make up, figure out wwhat they want, and still stands on her own as a great character with her own life going on. I'm NT, but from what I've seen on Tumblr, most ND people see her as good rep.

Spider

Fuck this guy. Racist, sexist, (not as homophobic as previously assumed), and awful. But I love it. I love when he gets told to shut up. I love it when he's being awful and the other characters are like "yeah, fuck this dude". But also, he was weirdly complex? like the scene where he would've gotten it on with Amerie makes a lot of sense in context of the rest of his behavior. He's overcompensating because someone he genuinely liked, and cared for to an extent, hurt him in a vulnerable place and treated him like a dissapointment. Doesn't give him the right to react with daily verbal abuse, but his character makes more sense that way. I'd like to see him grow from that, but I'm not sure how.

Star of the Show

They're here, they're queer, they're unapologetically BLACK, they. Are. DARREN.

Okay jokes aside, I love this bitch. They're not only a great friend, but they (mostly) know what they want in life. It's sad to see Darren be dismissed as “too much” in their home, and you can really see how its affected the way they view their ability to be loved and cherished. So seeing them find that in Ca$h and watch the relationshp between the two grow was beautiful. It hurt to see Darren hurt Ca$h, like they gay ass ain't know what the "A" in "LGBTQIA" stood for, but that growth and intracommunity hurt was important to see.

Others

Ant annoyed me but he seemed like he could do/be better if he wasn’t around the rest of the guys. Sasha pissed me off, but I hope losing Quinni was enough to actually get her to look at her self-righteous tendencies and work on herself, I wanna see her go far. Missy was a fucking icon and I love her. Ms. Jojo is the love of my life and fuck Spider/Ant/Dusty (nigga) for screwing her over like that. Mrs. Spigot is my literal soulmate.

I think that’s all for now? But yeah go watch it if you haven’t already. It is another show focusing on the sex lives of teens but it feels more authentic than anything we’ve been given before.

[delistravaganza]

I swear I relate to everything you have written about the enemies to lovers trope and lesbians.

it’s not even about lesbian representation, at least in fandom, of course that’s important but it’s not the point here, it’s about having wlw stories that are as...complex? Messed up? Intricated? as straight or even (in more recent years) mlm romantic storylines are allowed to be. I feel like I am constantly hungry of complicate stories with lesbian or bisexuals female characters involved in messy relationship. But almost every popolar ship that I meet on fandom or tv shows either is watered down, made all soft and sweet and not threatening and so not complicate enough to be appealing. (or in the fews that are not like that in the original media they get made in this way by the fandom- it’s so unnerving). it seems to me that’s it is either “tragic dead lesbian” or “soft sapphic story all is sweet uwu”. As someone who love stories with romance only when the romance is very complicated and not necessarily healthy and full of ambivalent feelings (don’t judge me as you said it’s just a matter of preference ashahaha) I sometimes read slash (mlm) fanfiction on ao3 that feature very complicate and not necessarily healthy dynamics and I go damn I wish that there was a fanfiction exactly like this but with two women instead of two men.

I get this 1000%. To be fair, I don't think it's just the wlw couples being UwUified in recent films and shows, this happens to all queer representation because of the pressure to create "good rep". To some extent, it's even happening with straight pairings because people are more aware now of sexism and what it really means to consent, though everyone still seems to be willing to let this knowledge fly off if teh guy iz HOT.

But there seems to be a particular issue with writing f/f interactions that are manipulative, dark or somehow more adult, not necessarily meaning sex but rather a more nuanced portrayal of the relationship. Whereas all the straight toxic romances went to specific (and thriving) genres such as "dark romance" (which at least seems to be more self-conscious as the Reylo fic I mentioned before), and we get glorious epics of m/m fanfiction stories (and books that feel like fanfiction), it sometimes seems like the women characters are treated as little girls.

Even in a dark, creepy, cannibalistic, adult-oriented show such as Yellowjackets, I found myself more interested in the hypothetical Jackie/Shauna pairing because oh boy that was complex! than in the actual lesbian pairings involving Tai, who is a great and somewhat nuanced character except when it comes to her (sanitized) relationships. Is it really just me favoring problematic and unhealthy dynamics or is there some truth to this? (It may be me.) Is Tai a bit tamed down because she's gay AND black?

Also, to be completely fair, I think that I have more expectations when it comes to wlw plots, maybe because I subconsciously think of them as more "me" than the others. I've read a lot about how women use slash to slip away from the narrative and write more freely, and the fact is - I've read a lot of trash when it comes to m/m. And I definitely don't remember it with the resentment I save for f/f media like First Kill ("you fucking set out to be everything I wanted and turned out to be a pile of dog shit!").

I have also read extremely interesting books featuring f/f dynamics on the latest years, which I could post here instead of whining à la Louis de Pointe du Lac, but the fact is that these books already set out to be a work of literary merit and weren't written to dwell on the romance or possible romance itself. I'm not even counting MBF here as I read it a while back for the first time, but it could be an example - I don't know, but it definitely wasn't written with UwUification in mind. I'm still thrilled at how much the marketing DID and DOES UwUify our girls and their relationship. Sometimes the marketing is like: Wouldn't you just love to have such a special friendship like these two? Uhhh what? No, thank you, I had my share of that shit?!?

Oh, and also - I'm not even sure it comes down to self-identification either. I said I identify with Catradora, but the fact is I don't necessarily identify with either Catra or Adora. I just identified with their feelings, and I felt empathy for them, and I worried and I suffered and I felt frustrated and I so, so, so hungered and feared for their fights and God, you should really check this one out because it's really on the edge between UwU and dark, and I think it's this mixture what made it work in today's world. It seemed to appeal to both parts of me - the one who lowkey wants the positive, young-and-healthy-oriented rep she didn't have as a teen, and the more prevalent one who prefers angst and twisted things. And yes, it's a cartoon. A cartoon did what many real, adult-oriented shows and books couldn't do with me.

But Catradora probably also worked because we, the audience, were purposefully kept in the dark about them, so we got to experience their story as it developed and without any clear expectation as what the end would be (compared to: here's your wlw romance of the day! Ship them! Hope they don't die!), something I'm sure you wouldn't be able to achieve now that all the info is out there.

Anyway, I'm rambling now and already taking too much time off work. But I find this topic fascinating. If anyone else wants to join in the conversation or point me somewhere that isn't Buffy/Faith or Catradora or Villanelle or Nicky/Lorna (YES I STILL SHIP THEM AND WILL ALWAYS DO) or our Neapolitan toxic friends, please do. And as always, nice talking to you. <3

---

P.D.: Here's a long video analysis that I really liked that tackles why "good" LGBT representation is boring (not wlw representation exclusively).

[heartslobbf]

i watched heartstopper s2 because i was an avid osemanverse enjoyer in my early teen years (back when alice oseman still had anons on rip) and owe some of my aspec self-discovery to their writing. i knew they had written an aroace storyline into this series and wanted to see it because whilst i knew as an aroallo lesbian i wouldn’t totally resonate and might be a bit cheesed off by aspects of it, i enjoy aromantic crumbs, and i enjoy discussing aspec Stuff even more. it was……. an interesting experience? has certainly given me a lot to think about. gushy rant below the cut :)

i will say, i think that the amatonormativity is still strong, and rigid in this show. it’s like, isaac is the exception to the rule and his true love is books, and he gets to yell at his friends for all being so damn couple-y and romance-obsessed but there’s no resolution to that. is that realistic? yeah, sure, allo friends can fucking suck, but heartstopper is the kind of show aiming to do certain things for queer kids where id expect a dialogue about this. you know, charlie & co coming to understand aspec identities and becoming more conscious of how amatonormativity affects them, interrogating it in such a way that these queer couples can also be liberated from its trappings. juicy shit like that. didnt happen tho. isaac gets a book about asexuality (no mention of aromanticism on its cover!!! the word is used by the artist who vaguely explains both terms to isaac, but there is a much greater focus on asexuality, so much so that this morning i saw pink fucking news celebrating isaac’s asexual storyline without a mention of his aromanticism) and that’s it.

a lot of that criticism is arguably coloured by my experience as an aroallo person, because i just want aromanticism to be engaged with as aromanticism. you know aroaces we are besties in arms solidarity and all that, and im so fucking happy you got some great asexual rep that frequently used the word asexual, as well as your flag and iconography. like fuck yeah!!!!!! let’s go!!!!!! however, aromanticism is not a subset of asexuality, is not an ‘extreme form’ of asexuality, does not necessarily have anything to do with asexuality. im sure the aspec folks know this, but allo fuckers dont and that means that this canonically aromantic character who was emotionally affecting to me is one that im gonna be barred from resonating with again and again.

you know, moments of isaac’s story were so profound and moving for me. i cried at the kiss scene in episode 5, it was probably the single most relatable moment of tv (related to my experiences with sexuality) that ive ever seen. its certainly not my favourite tv moment of all time lol, relatability ≠ quality, but when youre part of a marginalised group and experience a lot of loneliness and alienation surrounding your identity it is great to see it reflected. i honestly loved that shit!!!!! ive been there!!!! that’s me!!!!!! the wanting and the not wanting!!! the jealousy and confusion and alienation, the longing to be able to feel what you can’t just so you don’t have to be so lonely, the knowledge that you’re just not that person…… oh it was great. it was fucking great. so you can maybe appreciate how upsetting it is for other people to neglect the aromantic facets of this canonically aromantic character, when we dont get shit.

having said that, asexuals also dont get shit; my issue is absolutely not with isaac being aroace, but rather with how mainstream understanding of aspec identities is still so piss poor that people neglect the aromantic aspect of that identity. i found isaac to be a relatable character and i enjoyed and appreciated that about him; i wish more people would talk about him being both asexual and aromantic, because aromanticism does not get talked about enough as anything other than an ‘extension’ of asexuality, an idea which only diminishes the complexity and vastness of both (fucking awesome and beautiful) identities. love and light and solidarity forever with all other aspec folk <3

[yuripira4e]

ur points are fine but do you really have to put an obnoxious anon in the mgs tag talking shit abt one of the few games with gay male rep "made up yaoi" and claiming bb/eva is like a Real Canon pairing and not they fucked one bc eva was trying to get something from him and if you want to talk about women her feelings towards him were clearly a lot more complicated than it just being a ship. virtue signaling is also acting like you have to publicly blog about female characters to show that you care and respect them. also strangeboss WAS very popular, more so when the game came out for what its worth. if you really want to get into the nitty gritty im always pretty disappointed that ppl interpret their relationship as cute mutual attraction and ignore that strangelove has an obsession with the boss that likely makes her an unreliable narrator, which imo isnt a bad thing!! i legit think thats really interesting, zero and bb talk a lot about the boss and her will from the pov of soldiers but strangelove equally puts her on a pedestal imo. yeah thats not a good trope for a lesbian character but again! if you want to get nitty gritty. theres a really clear pattern in the mgs series where only villains are CANONICALLY bi/gay, but theres a lot of heavy handed queer coding among the "good guys"

I agree with you too. I’m sorry for putting discourse in the tag. 1. strange boss is a complex dynamic and as much as I love it it is ultimately from Strangelove’s pov. I think that’s just a reoccurring theme with the boss in general. I mean the entire game is centered around the misinterpretation of her will and everyone taking what they thought she meant from it and warping it to for their own perception. I do think strangeboss was mutual but Strangelove was definitely not healthily crushing on the boss either. I haven’t been in the fandom that long so I actually didn’t know the ship was that popular at one point but you have to admit it does get overshadowed as do a lot of female pairings (straight or queer) in the fanbase

2. I already said I don’t ship bb ships. I love Eva and I think her complex relationship with bb and other characters should absolutely be talked about and I enjoy their dynamic so that’s why I said I liked their relationship but not endgame

3. I do think the made up yaoi thing was kind of rude bc I don’t think it was made up at all (I should have said that on that but I don’t really feel like starting arguments or defending shit). I think the mlm representation in the game is honestly really groundbreaking even if it does adhere to a lot of stereotypes and unfortunately villainize it a lot. But it has multiple relationships and single characters in queer or queer coded mlm relationships that differ in age, ethnicity, dynamic, and backstory which is just insanely cool. From like canonically queer characters like volgin and vamp and I’m gonna say ocelot bc I think pw put him past queer coded and into fully implied queer territory to deep, healthy, interesting queer coded relationships like otasune and even liquidmantis I think it’s amazing and should not be minimized even if it could be improved or there are faults in the way other characters are treated because of it at times which is something every fanbase has. Even other ships that I don’t like have a lot of really interesting dynamics and feelings that are undeniably queer coded and I think we should just look at all of it and enjoy the queer media we’ve been given while being able to critique it and not turn on each other

[goldenworldsabound]

Alright. I've got to admit something cause I'm tired of being unable to post what I want here.

I got into Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel. So if that's on your DNI, I guess here's your chance to block me. That being said though, if you're on my tag list please at least shoot me a message letting me know you'd like to be removed? You were my friend - so I hope you can do me this kindness before you go. And please, this should go without saying - I'm still the same person I've always been, and please don't stoop so low as to harass me.

That being said, if you can stick around just a bit more I wanted to talk about it. To be honest, it's always seemed wrong to me that the community picked this up and decided these shows were iredeemable. These are queer focused shows that tackle complex subjects. They are queer stories (like literally helluva boss focuses on canon queer relationships) that hold nothing back. They do cover sensitive topics, so of course one needs discretion when watching and it won't be for everyone due to the adult nature of the show, but they have received a lot of vitriol I don't think they deserved.

That being said, I know the primary creator (V./ivziepop) has done a mix of things. Some are potentially false or overblown, and some definitely are not good. But the thing is these shows are made by more than just her. And I see no reason to deprive myself of a well crafted set of queer stories because there might be one bad apple helping make it. I can and do think critically about the media I consume, always.

And honestly, I think a lot of the backlash comes from how the online queer community always treats indie creators - if it isn't 100% perfect for everyone (which is impossible), it shits all over them, while still praising shows made by large corporations for crumbs of queer rep (or for nothing!).

So that's my stance on this. If you choose to block me for this, that is your choice, and I will unquestioningly respect that. But I hope you won't, because you are my friends, and I hope that you can understand my point of view.

[cobragardens]

In the first essay in this post Maya Gittelman articulates something that I think is really important: it's not just the gender(fuck) of the characters' coding that makes Good Omens a queer story, it's that the story is about queerness itself.

Gittelman's essay:

The thing is, this is the shit I’ve been waiting for my whole life.

Before I knew the words, I was impacted by how every epic romance, every classic adventure, every story I had access to and enjoyed was cishet. I needed to translate either the story or myself to find myself in it—every single time. I grew up in the oughts, in the days of the Tumblr fandoms you’re thinking of. I wrote about this a bit more in my essay on the first season of Our Flag Means Death last year, and that first line applies here—queer heartache has never felt this good.

I’ve been able to consume a lot of queer storytelling lately—mostly white cis m/m, but not exclusively and more than I’ve ever been able to in my life, because I’ve been searching for it for a long time. Yet as we know, there are a lot of mainstream stories with queer “rep” that at their core about what marginalized queer people have been cautioning around for generations—normalization. Assimilation. Respectability. See, we can be just like you. We too desire to marry, participate as cogs in the violent machine of imperialism. We too want the right to give you our service, our allegiance. We too want to join your armies. I certainly can enjoy plenty of that media, but I’m still desperate for queer storytelling that’s not sanitized, not flattened out to fit cishet beats, something that tells a good story that’s queer on every level. And that means we deserve to see queer characters who are messy, who hurt each other, because sometimes, love isn’t enough.

While Good Omens in some ways still white cis m/m, it’s also not entirely, and what works for me is that it actually delves into asking the damned question: What if this love is a threat, actually?

What if this love is something that does disrupt your norms, your ways of life? What if it’s an open danger to the systems you’re used to? What if this love could disrupt everything? What if it goes against God’s will and Satan’s too, what if it flies in the face of the ineffable plan?

What I’m saying is, I’ve wanted stories that let queer people be characters, with all the nuance and complexity that entails. Stories that are queer, intentionally, in both subtext and text, that aren’t asking an audience to justify their right to exist. Instead, they’re giving voice to the specifics of queer experience that don’t typically get mainstream care, multi-season tenderness. We deserve queer love stories that are wistful, epic, tragic not because they’re of the “same gender” but because the tangled truths of safety and trauma are inextricable from queer love. We deserve stories that are queer as subtext and text, metaphor and central plot and side plot too. We deserve queer stories that explore how queer love is infinite variety. We deserve genre stories that explore what immortality or something close to it does to pining, to longing, for wanting the one person in the universe you can’t have.

We deserve queer stories without homophobia that still explore the traumas of marginalized desire, in which neither party is truly the villain, just victims of the same system, at different stages of knowing it.

Show me what it looks like beyond the happily ever after, the will they/won’t they, the beats of a privileged cis white coming out. Breathe arcs of nuance and poetry and history into it. We deserve that epic romance, and we deserve to see how much it can hurt, because the depths of that wound evidence the ferocity of that love.

Growing up queer can feel monstrous, and I need to see that on screen. When you get preached at that people like you go to Hell for what you are and the ways you want, you start to relate to the demons. When you’re taught the truest, most joyful parts of you are unholy, it’s fair to ask—why should I respect the authority of a system that hates me for reasons I can’t control?

You learn to disguise your desire, and it changes you. It changes you to choke down your feelings, to deny them, to believe that they are sin. You learn to pour them into the hidden language of love that arises between you and whoever you’re lucky enough to share it with, so you don’t learn how to say them aloud. (Their arrangement, “little demonic miracle of my own,” the fourth alternative rendezvous. This is what queer love has looked like for millennia: something beautiful and true, despite, despite, despite.) Unlike those whose love has only ever been legal, permitted, “normal,” “holy”—your relationship is inescapably shaped by the threat behind it. You don’t get to see them as often as you like. You don’t get to talk, either to them or about them, because it might disturb the precious existence you have carved out together. You have to make up excuses, you can’t admit to anyone exactly why you can’t stop going back, and in this way you don’t always have to confront it yourself.

At the same time, that’s why queer love can be one of the most powerful forces in the universe—it saved the world last time, even if they didn’t call it that, yet. Aziraphale and Crowley don’t know so many details about each other’s lives and yet they know nearly everything important.

This is love—this natural state of slipping into the truth, until you awaken to it, inevitable and encompassing, all around you.

You might find yourself almost helpless to the magnetism. You can’t stop going back, finding your way to them, taking the risk, basking in the thrill of the comfort of their company.

And that’s why this finale, this story, this couple works so well for me—it’s queer in the telling, and while it always has been, this season literalized it on a new level and that matters.

[discjude]

What are your reasons for liking Japeth and hating Rhian II? I'm just curious because Japeth seems to be a hated character in general.

So i pasted what i wrote before into a google doc and it was over a page long so here is a very condensed version, including my original preface. there’s also a tldr at the end if you don't have half an hour

quick preface just in case people get mad at me for this (dovesso stans are gonna hate me after this one):: I am not trying to convince anyone of anything here,,, this is entirely my opinion and I'm absolutely not trying to insult anyone that doesn't like japeth!! I completely respect it if you like rhian, there's a lot of good reasons to like him and as I'm writing this I realise I don't hate him as much as I thought I did. once again this is my opinion and it's alright if you disagree :)))

My reasons for liking Japeth mostly come from how complex his character is and what role he serves in the story. Though rhian is also very complex and i’m a very big fan of him being everything tedros isn’t as a king, liking japeth is mutually exclusive to liking rhian. Other than that, my two other solid reasons for disliking rhian is the way he treats kei (neglecting everyone else who tries to get close to you because you’re prophesied to marry Sophie? Dick move bro) and the fact that he’s ever so slightly homophobic which is neither here or there

Every other reason comes from me liking japeth, which is because::

1) japeth is very very complex and mostly very well written. Chapters like flesh and blood are very clear on what he’s got going on emotionally, he’s got a very solid motivation, and if you’re really looking for it he’s a clear parallel to Rafal. If you have read any of my other posts you will know i am a sucker for parallels

2) also speaking narratively, i think him being the culmination of every other villain in the series is Very Clever!! He’s evelyn and rafal’s child, rhian’s brother, a parallel to sophie and yknow the other one!! It’s very important to me

3) (this is the big one) i think he’s quite misunderstood and i don’t think a lot of his actions were his fault??? Obviously there’s some unforgivable stuff (if you saw what soman posted last week on tiktok you know) and he’s genuinely quite insane by book 6 but it’s made clear in chapters like Rhian and the Real Thing that there is Some Shit Wrong with him, notably issues with anger and becoming too attached to people. Sort of leading on from this, I don’t think that he’s the one solely to blame for his involvement in Camelot years: i think the two main villains of the last half of the series are Evelyn Sader and Aric. 

I Do Not Like Aric and I believe he’s almost entirely responsible for Japeth’s actions: because of Japeth’s over-attachment to him, he internalises a lot of Aric’s beliefs (the misogyny and only referring to them as “friends” are my best examples) and this ultimately leads to some sort of dependency, which kinda fucks japeth up a lot when aric dies.

Similarly the same sort of thing happens with evelyn and rhian. Evelyn forces a lot of prophecies onto Rhian, and that led to his delusions about becoming king which ostracised him from his brother and gives him this idea that anyone who stops him from being king is automatically wrong. 

It’s worth saying that i Do Not Like Everything About Japeth. Some of his writing and dialogue really falls through, and maybe having your first canon queer couple both be absolute psychopaths isn’t a good idea?? While I don’t think the queer rep done through Japeth isnt horrible, it's. Yknow. Not good. It’s also worth saying that i don’t hate everything about Rhian!! I do think he’s also cleverly written and, again, works very well as a parallel to old rhian. 

I think that’s about it and i don’t want to write any more so if you have any further questions (or if you agree with me somehow) please let me know!! It’s also worth noting that i just really like snakes and went a little wild in 2020 when i read about cool snake villain

TL,DR: japeth’s nicely written and i think he’s generally misunderstood, he’s also got some nice parallels going on, I don’t explicitly hate Rhian but i don’t like him because he treats people around him like shit. I also think that Aric and Evelyn are more responsible for the twin’s actions then the twins are themselves. I condensed this all and it's still so long

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