#but I think some people forget that some queer people are marginalized in other ways IN ADDITION to their queerness

[musical-chick-13]

I hate to tell you this, but many gays also love Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. (A musical show about discovering your identity and the negative effects of internalizing harmful societal ideas about relationships, which also has canonically queer characters in it.)

[fucktoyfelix]

This is actually a useful thing to understand how to spell out. What exactly is wrong with puritanical attitudes towards sexuality? TW: Discusses body image issues, suicide, STIs, sexual assault etc

1. It fosters fear, disgust and loathing of our bodies. By hiding the human body as soon as we are born, and treating it as an object of inherent shame: THAT creates trauma. Shame is one of the primary sources of trauma, its the fuel and lets trauma burn. Those raised in nudist societies, and children raised in households where nudity is treated in a neutral and non-sexual tend to have a much more positive relationship with their bodies as adults. This makes complete sense when you think about it. Going through puberty not knowing if your body is "normal" terrifies children in ways that stick with them for life. In fact, most cultures outside of the Unites States aren't as strange about non-sexual nudity actually...and are healthier for it. We can't have body positivity as long as we are literally criminalized for having an uncovered body. 2. It creates fear, shame and disgust about sex. Most people have sex at some point in their lives. No one would be here at all without it. Most people have sexual desires which lie outside their control. When people are ashamed of those desires, it leads to self hatred, and depression and anxiety. This shame is just as traumatic as bodily shame. When sex is normalized, and treated with the same candor as any other hobby: it becomes less apt to traumatize people.

3. Puritanical attitudes towards sex limit sex education. When people are too ashamed to talk about sex, people don't learn about pregnancy, stis, or consent. All of these things can and do kill people when they aren't addressed with an open dialogue.

Sexual shame leads to people too ashamed to buy condoms, to talk to their doctor about birth control, to ask their partner to use protection, to get tested...the negative health impacts of sexual puritanism have a massive negative effect on society.

4. Sexual shame leads to poorer communication in relationships. Ohh if I had a dime for every person i knew who ruined their relationship because they felt too guilty to talk to their partner about their sexual feelings...Not just that, but the general body shame that comes with puritanism blocks people from connecting to one another too. Have you ever avoided getting close to someone because you were ashamed of your body? If not, I guarantee you know someone who has.

5. Misogyny! Puritanical sexual believes hold that women are not capable of sexual agency. That only men should initiate sex. That women should only ever want babies and not pleasure from sex. All of this rolls right into the next one:

6. Victim blaming in sexual assault. When women are the gatekeepers of sex, its easy to blame them when they 'fail' to protect their chastity when someone violates their trust. This isn't something that just effects women: as the same attitudes hold that men are not capable of experiencing sexual assault. The lack of education and discussion about sex in a sex-negative world inherently prevent the open dialogues necessary for creating and maintaining consent culture.

7. Suppression and marginalization of the queer community. If we're too ashamed to talk about sex, we'll be too ashamed to talk about sexuality. Puritans can't accept any deviation from gender norms either. Anything other than sex between a cis man and a cis woman for the purpose of making a baby is a deviant kink, a mental illness, and needs to be wiped out. Its important to point out that many queer people hold puritanical values about sex: believing that they can achieve sex negativity and queer liberation at the same time. However, sex negative movements always rise with censorship and discrimination of queer people...because queer people are inherently considered deviant by the vast majority of sex negative "allies". It's very dangerous to forget this.

8. Censorship of art. Who decides what is sexual and what is not? Its easy to agree that sex needs to be hidden...but it never takes long before the definition of what is "sexual" expands. Even women's breasts are considered sexual in the United States. Its so normal for Americans to think of them that way that women can't feed their children in public. Drag queens face violence for reading at libraries. Books get taken off the shelves. Artists are bullied offline.

9. Censorship of scientific exploration. Scientific research into reproductive health, sexual behavior, gender identity and more are often hindered due to the "moral objections" of puritans, delaying progress and understanding. That's just off the top of my head. I think its time for people to take how problematic 'puritanism' is more seriously. As we see fascism rear its ugly head all over the world, we're going to see a lot more talk about 'degenerates'...and we know where that kind of talk leads.

[annamariehamilton-unofficial]

Random Ghoulposting: A Gay Ghoul?!? Followup, part I

So, my little "No gay ghouls? hold my coffee" joke post seems to have gone a bit viral, which I was not at all expecting; anyway, I just wanted to post a little followup with some of my personal thoughts and theories apropos of Tokyo Ghoul and the lgbt community. I wouldn't consider myself to be queer, but I do know a bunch of people in that community, so, idk, hopefully this is insightful.

Obviously you are welcome to disagree with me, this is just my specific interpretation.

The Fandom

As I've deep-dove into the TG fandom in the last few months, I've discovered this really interesting paradox in that Sui Ishida, the author, has a really unfortunate tendency to rely on negative stereotypes and tropes for his characterization of queer characters. And yet, at the same time, TG seems to deeply resonate with (some) members of the lgbtq community because its themes of being an outsider in greater society and the importance of learning to accept those who are different from you. Like I don't think I've ever seen a work be both so riddled with homophobic/transphobic stereotypes and also so beloved by people in the queer community (at least so far as I can tell on Tumblr, which is, admittedly, a microcosm).

A couple of reasons for this, I think. For one, I've noticed a lot of queer people really resonate with horror and fantasy. And not just queer people -- people of any minority/marginalized identity, really. But it is a pretty pronounced trend among queer folks as far as I've seen. Fantasy and horror are this really great venue for exploring feelings of alienation and "otherness" in ways that can honestly feel more authentic expressed with "unreal" elements than in a more strictly realist fashion. Like instead of it being like, "ok, here's this gay/black/disabled/autistic/whatever character, you're supposed to relate to them because you share an identity," it's more like, all right, this character is a werewolf/vampire/ghoul/whatever, and this story shows viscerally how it FEELS to be "other," and THAT is what makes it relatable.

So, even though TG does have some homophobic aspects to it, the premise, of a group of people who are marginalized by society for something that isn't even their choice, but who are still shown to be complex *people* just as much as the human characters, would really resonate with anyone from any marginalized background, queer people included.

(I mean, I'm an Autistic somewhat-acespec Christian girl with anxiety and a certain amount of religious trauma who has a special interest in dark fantasy and classic literature, and TG hits me RIGHT in the identity-specific feels, so I can see how it would for others too).

The other thing is that, even though Ishida relies pretty heavily on problematic queer villainy tropes, I think he does just good enough of a job of giving all of his characters some shred of humanity or relatability, that ... well, I won't say that it's *okay*, because it's still not, but I think readers like myself are a bit more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Like yes, Nico is kind of a walking toxic gay stereotype. But let's also not forget that he stood up to an *extremely* physically and emotionally abusive partner to try to protect Kaneki and two other innocent victims, just because he thought it was the right thing to do. Tsukiyama also falls into the predatory gay man stereotype, at least at first, but he was just so enjoyable and fun (and, despite all his weird cannibal obsessiveness, he did seem to genuinely *like* Kaneki as a person) that he became a fan-favorite even when he was still the stereotypical queer villain of the week. Ishida also gave him something of a series-long redemption arc, turning him into a complex and lovable character who is, still, a fan favorite. Uta is a legitimately cool and nice guy, even if he does do some *very* morally questionable things with the Clown Masks later on. Even Jason is a monster plain and simple, but he became that way because he himself was abused, and his reminisces about his mother remind us that even the worst people still have someone they love.

I haven't read all the way through :re yet, and the negative queer tropes apparently get even worse there ... Mutsuki's descent into mental illness and jealous rage plays into a number of uncomfortable transphobic and misogynistic tropes, but I guess it sort of makes sense in the context of their past and struggles with mental illness, and the themes of the story with the relationship between trauma and moral decay. And prior to that really unfortunate arc, Mutsuki was genuinely a super cool character. Matsuri Washuu's profession of love to Urie was ... real weird, and the way he did it was gratuitous ... but you do kind of feel bad for the guy for being basically forced into marrying a woman he isn't attracted to for the family honor.

Then, of course, you have all the characters who aren't canonically queer, but are so relatable in more positive ways for queer folks that many fans headcanon them to be queer. Hide's unconditional love and devotion for Kaneki comes to mind. Or Hsiao and Saiko coming across as being queer but in a good/cool way. Or Juuzo's ambiguous gender expression, and Juuzo being completely unhinged but also one of the most well-loved characters in the series.

So I guess what I'm saying is ... yeah, the portrayal of queer characters in TG is problematic, and I don't mean to be defending it, exactly, but I guess what I'm saying is that even when the author is being awful with the tropes, he's still somehow able to write characters who feel human enough to occasionally transcend those tropey boxes he pushes them into.

I will also note that most of the queer or queer-ish characters are still alive in the final chapter. So, of all of the terrible tropes TG engages in with its queer characters, at least "bury your gays" isn't one of them.

IDK just my thoughts. I'll be posting another follow-up with some of my in-universe headcanons later on, I think.

[gizdathemxel]

hot take but i think some of u guys r too blinded by your hatred of men and the ways women suffer under them that ur kinda left unable to make complete intersectional analyses. like hate men all u like, but please keep in mind that race, ability, class & sexual/gender orientation are also forms of oppression.

like yes cishet women hold privileges over queer/gender varient men (and women!!). don’t tell me y’all forgot who anita bryant was or that second wave feminist movements purposely excluded queer women (the lavender menace y’all). like yes white women do hold privileges over moc, like yk, the white tears and the moc = savage rapists coming for your (white) women idea. much the same way that white women also hold privileges over woc. let’s not forget that early suffragette and feminist movements were championed by white women purposely excluded women of color.

like unfortunately oppression is not as simple as “group of people shitting on other group of people”, it is complicated and intertwined between people!! for example, me! i am disadvantaged compared to a white person by proxy of my blackness, but privileged to a disabled person by proxy of my ablebodiedness! neither of those things negated the other !!

if you want to make complete intersectional analysis that does ultimately uplift marginalized groups, you’re going to have to recognize that. or else you *will* end up incorporating bigoted beliefs in your feminism !! which will always end up excluding the marginalized groups that you’re trying to uplift. (you’ll also look like that one exclusionary asshole that no one besides other bigots fw)

tldr: hate men all u want but for the love of god recognize that oppression is not simple top down marginalization but is instead interwoven & utilized by other people at different times!! remember to be intersectional!!

[suenitos]

I support them in never telling fans anything about their sexuality or relationship again like if I had never come out bc I didn’t want to and the people were cannibalising themselves bc they had to swear up and down I was straight or gay or in a relationship with a man or a woman i don’t think I’d ever say anything personal ever again

if people actually cared about nuance i feel like there could be great conversations to be had about how you really have such a lack of privacy and ownership as a famous person, even if you have marginally more control as someone who is in content creation and "self made". like i said earlier with the art essay, celebrity in particular demands that you perform and produce every second of your life and very few people actively break that mold and in some ways it's harder to do so as a woman or person of color or queer person etc, but its also difficult in other ways if you belong to a dominant group(s) or are perceived to be in breaking out of your persona. i think people forget that even with our social advances we are not guaranteed space or safety like in any context and a lot of things from us can and will be taken away. because on the other side, if you are out and loud, or youre easily clockable (aka dont have the ability to mask or closet yourself), you have to deal with extreme tokenization from people who mean well but maybe dont really care about you personally, just what you represent for general "representation" (like being The Gay streamer or The Trans streamer etc) , and you deal with extremely invasive questions regardless but on this level they have the potential to actually destroy your life because we still live in deeply queerphobic societies everywhere, and a bad answer/decision/behavior reflects poorly on the community. so i completely support peoples decisions to be as quiet or loud about their sexuality as they want, and their ability to explore on their own and reclaim a semblance of privacy because even we as non famous people cant really enjoy that luxury as much anymore either. but THAT is another essay topic

[the-path-to-redemption]

Bitch wtf?!!!

Listen I have my own disagreements and agreements on Hazbin Hotel but at the same time I don't think the angels from Hazbin Hotel is a great example of Israel

From what I know angels from HH are unaware of the Genocide of hellborns are disagree with it. Zionist and majority Israel population IS aware of what they are doing and support the Genocide.

Avatar the Last Airbender is better on portraying a Genocide that HH

Long Post Ahead. Trigger Warnings: Mentions of Sexual Assault, Genocide, Naz*s, Deaths, and War.

Look, I don't really give a shit about the whole morality of Hazbin Hotel because the show is fucking mediocre as shit to me, but let's just make one thing clear for everyone. Thanks for showing me this shit, homie, cause this coming rant?

This is mostly aimed at the fucker in the screenshot m/ultishipper and others like them:

If you compare an ongoing genocide that has caused thousands of casualties, real-life deaths of innocents including children, to a fucking fictional media.

YOU ARE A FUCKING GHOUL AND I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR YOU.

We can discuss the presence of genocide in a show for days and I wouldn't give a fuck, but to take the suffering of war victims to boost up your asinine, anti-RWDE bullshit immediately takes you to the lowest depths of hell, m/ultishipper, and nothing will ever fucking change the fact that you are SCUM.

These are REAL fucking people. Not a fucking comparative element for anyone to compare to FICTIONAL CHARACTERS who cannot fucking do anything. They. Are. Not. Real. And I am fucking done with the RWBY bootlickers who make these kinds of fucking comments as a gotcha to RWDE.

I've seen a fucking edit of Ironwood sitting next to P*tin during the beginning of the Ukrainian crisis. I've seen posts of fuckers like this making Ironwood out to be a fascist and comparing him to N*tanyahu. I've seen so many fucking people calling fans of Ironwoods fascists and Naz*s, it's not even fucking funny.

STOP. THAT. SHIT. The casualties and horrors of war are NOT for you to fucking exploit, m/ultishipper, just because you love to such dick for a company that does not give a fuck about you. Don't fucking act like you're innocent either, because *I* had to block you last year after you fucking call me an abuse apologist as well as other vile ass shit. and that's not mentioning your countless abuse towards other RWDE blogs, many run by women of color and other marginalized groups.

I don't doubt that there have been death threats; yeah, RWDE isn't a monolith, and no one deserves to be treated like that over some trash-ass Texas anime. But guess what? DO FUCKING NOT ACT LIKE YOU AND SIMILAR BITCHED HAVEN'T DONE THE SAME THING AND WORSE.

So far, you ass-eaters have:

Call me an abuse apologist, a misogynist, a queerphobe, a racist, a dictator lover, and a pedophile over a FUCKING SHOW.

Harassed MULTIPLE RWDE blogs, many run by marginalized people, and called them similar shits for disagreeing with you, completely forgetting that some of them are SA survivors, in which calling them pedophiles and similar things makes you a SEXUAL AGGRESSOR.

Sent death threats to blogs for disagreeing with your bullshit and bullied many artists out of the FNDM for "shipping the wrong ships".

Make excuses for the abusers working at RT, who have a long fucking list of violence against people, while still calling us abuse apologists.

FUCKING CALLED SHEENA OUM, MONTY'S WIDOW, A MURDEROUS BITCH AND BLAMED HER FOR HIS DEATH AFTER RT KICKED HER OUT OF HER HUSBAND'S PROJECT.

Degrading the works and involvement that Dillon Goo and Shane Newville have on RWBY, even though they were with Monty since the beginning the same way MK was while uplifting the latter who continues to exploit queerness in characters to sell their show.

Blamed and bullied Kdin, who was abused by her place of employment for years, for said abuse while making excuses for your faves who made years of her life hell.

Ignored the many, MANY, animators and employees at RT, who were abused, laid off, and in some cases, DISABLED, by the awful working conditions there just for your dumbass show to continue at their expense.

Made comparisons between RWDE posters and NAZ*S. Who fucking does that?? There's a fucking screenshot of someone on Reddit literally claiming that if H*tler was a RWBY hater, WE would hang Swatzik*s to support him. FUCK YOU.

And right back to now, comparing real casualties of war to a fucking show as a gotcha to people you do not agree with.

I hope that you assholes find a conscience soon for your own sake. Because if this is part of your legacy, may you fucking rot in hell.

Thank you to the person submitting this to me. Only for showing me the depths of depravity this scumbag can go to though; making me read that shit was torturous and I will now pour 6 oz. of salt into your soup tonight.

[beardedmrbean]

https://x.com/marrloed/status/1783599852108038549?s=46

>Generation that was raised on some of the most complex kids media western entertainment had to teach empathy and such

>Threw it all the way to have american Puritanism and Nazism with a queer hat

Also let not pretend that this not just based off the media kids consume. Because as you mention before the evil shit that the Steven universe fandom did. A lot of people forget the vast majority of the Steven Universe fanbase of that time were MILLENNIALS. So not my gen or gen alpha and let not pretend it just media consumption

“Hey Gen x-z who part the marginalized groups who we allowed. I know you have genocidal hatred towards groups because your abusers just happened be part of. We are going to allow it and never think it has an effect.”

I mean hello tik tok? Or how the majority of fanbases of kids cartoons are toxic as hell?

I mean the Killmonger shitshow? When you allow a huge chunk of society to treat real humans as FICTIONAL characters, oh and covid. ALMOST LIKE WE WERE YELLING AT PEOPLE HOW THE EXTREME MEASURES WE DID WE DO A NUMBER ON KIDS

Sorry y’all, but when a fandom said I’m a Nazi and abuse apologist for preferring a evil space wizard (who is so watered down to some of the others unhinged characters I like) over the bland heroes who had the personality of cardboard

You planted the seeds for the sociopathic behavior we see in modern kids because YOU FUCKS ALLOWED THE MANIACS GET INTO POWER BECAUSE THEY LIKE WOKE SHIT

>Generation that was raised on some of the most complex kids media western entertainment had to teach empathy and such >Threw it all the way to have american Puritanism and Nazism with a queer hat

Sometimes simple is superior, I had Fred Rogers.

“Hey Gen x-z who part the marginalized groups who we allowed. I know you have genocidal hatred towards groups because your abusers just happened be part of. We are going to allow it and never think it has an effect.”

True about SU, there's other reasons for that too

Gen-X managed to see its monster get slain when the Berlin Wall fell, wouldn't say hatred towards them just communism in general

I mean hello tik tok? Or how the majority of fanbases of kids cartoons are toxic as hell?

Entitlement does that, Voltron thing is a good example. Unhinged people thinking they can force other people's art to conform to their standard.

I mean the Killmonger shitshow? When you allow a huge chunk of society to treat real humans as FICTIONAL characters, oh and covid. ALMOST LIKE WE WERE YELLING AT PEOPLE HOW THE EXTREME MEASURES WE DID WE DO A NUMBER ON KIDS

Gonna be interesting to see the long term effects of all of that, heartbreaking to probably.

Wild watching all the self proclaimed anti fascists out there acting as fascist as fascist can be, never seemed to be able to get through to them that they were behaving that way either.

Anarchists being mad that people weren't following the state's orders was wild.

You planted the seeds for the sociopathic behavior we see in modern kids because YOU FUCKS ALLOWED THE MANIACS GET INTO POWER BECAUSE THEY LIKE WOKE SHIT

Now now, we all know it's always someone else's fault for things like this.

[opinated-user]

i think lily called her critics the r slur? a while ago today she posted referring to the people getting on her case r*****s but typed it like that. the post is deleted now but it’s gross if that’s really what she meant.

wait, did i miss that? did someone managed to archive that or take a screenshot?

i know she called critics rapist, school shooters, psychopaths (which is still ableist), suicidal (also ableist), violent, abusers, subhuman (which is not very nice in general, but worse look when the vast majority of us are queer or marginalized in some other way) and probably other things i'm forgetting right now.

[sawthatmountainburn]

I mean, I do think it's useful to have a way to articulate who transmisogyny affects cause like it's not "everybody" as some might want to claim, but it's annoying that even the pro tma/tme distinction side cannot decide on what it actually means. like the thing that made me lose faith in it was this

like ok, let's accept the premise that TMA doesn't just mean transfem (a loosely defined term anyway) and can include non-transfem drag queens, which are mostly cis queer men with some exceptions. following so far.

but then what makes someone TME is the ability to wield transmisogyny against transfems, which means cis guys are TME. and that's also perfectly reasonable, but it does cause issue with the previous statement that non-transfem drag queens are TMA. Ru-Fracking-Paul himself has been very transmisogynistic on numerous occasions and somehow, I don't think he's an outlier! there's also an argument to be made, and has been made by some transfems and even drag queens, that ceasing to be in drag is more akin to taking off a costume, whereas trying to stop being trans is straight up life threatening. and like, sure, there's nuance to this, but it's a very stark and obvious difference, right? so clearly not all, if any, non-transfem drag queens are TMA. hell, I think there's an argument to be made that drag is actually being attacked because it's a queer artform, like "degenerate art" was attacked by the original Nazis; something related to transmisogyny, but distinct from it.

so like, it's infinitely nuanced as a lot of things are, which would be fine except for the fact that people demand others identify themselves as TME/TMA in order to participate in these discussions. and if you're a binary trans person who doesn't crossdress in anyway, the distinction is easy to make, but for others not so much and sorry if this hurts anyone's feelings, but declaring that it's just not worth talking about those "others" because they're such a minority, is just classic marginalization.

and like idk if there's a real solution to this. in my mind, it makes more sense for TMA to apply only to trans people who were AMAB. then there can be a broader term for stuff which includes that + drag queens who don't fall into that category + femboys who also don't + ditto butches + intersex women who are perceived as more "mannish" + whomever I might be forgetting idk it's 6am. but idk I'm just one guy with a particular (autistic) way of understanding the world so the models I find to make sense, might not resonate with others, nor be particularly useful in analysis. but jfc I'm tired of this wishy-washy nonsense and I'm even more tired of how allergic its proponents are to criticism.

[innocent-until-proven-geeky]

Not to have Thoughts about Shrek the Musical, but I think one of my favorite moments is in Donkey’s solo “don’t let me go” when Donkey tells Shrek, “You don’t know what it’s like to be considered a freak! … well, maybe you do.”

For one thing it’s just funny. When delivered well it makes the whole audience laugh.

But ALSO the whole musical is not so subtly about being marginalized and all the different ways people can be oppressed. Donkey is a talking donkey, Pinocchio is a walking talking puppet, Gingy is a talking gingerbread cookie. “I did some time in jail, I smell like sauerkraut,” and of course, Shrek is an ogre and Fiona is cursed to turn into one at sunset every day. There are SO many different fairy tale creatures that Farquaad has kicked out of Duloc, all for different reasons that ultimately add up to You Do Not Look And Act The Way I, The Person In Power, Want You To.

There are characters who are analogs for being queer, Jewish, disabled, and people of color, and there are characters that I can’t seem to tie to any one experience because they’re just there to show that people think being different is bad.

And Donkey says to Shrek, “You don’t know what it’s like to be considered a freak!” And it’s FUNNY because Shrek is an ogre, of COURSE he knows what it’s like—but it’s also kinda deep because sometimes, especially if you don’t have intersectional identities, we can forget that other people with identities we don’t have ARE considered “freaks” in modern society, although usually people don’t word it that way. As a white Christian, I don’t know what it’s like to be a person of color or to be Jewish, Muslim, or any other non-Christian—and Shrek doesn’t know what it’s like to be a talking donkey—but as a queer disabled AFAB person, I do know what it’s like to be oppressed in those ways—and Shrek knows what it’s like to be an ogre.

And I love that Donkey immediately realizes what he’s said and backtracks. He doesn’t apologize (because I think that would ruin the comedy and MOSTLY Shrek is a comedy), but he goes, “well, maybe you do!” Maybe even though you do not have MY experience of being a Freak™️ and I do not have YOUR experience of being a Freak™️, we are still both Freaks™️ together.

Like. This is why intersectionality is so important! This, and the fact that everything is linked and our oppression is designed to keep the people in power where they are, and also the fact that some people are at the intersection of different marginalized identities, like queer Jews or Muslims, or disabled people of color, or any other combination.

[jaidethalagorra]

I know I don’t normally post about stuff like this and I probably won’t again, but I’ve been here for a couple weeks now and I feel like I need to say my piece.

I know that there’s always so much hate on us, from both outside and inside the community. And I know that all of it hurts. And it kills. And it feels like the only thing we can do is fight back. But it’s so, so important to remember that aside from the genuine grifters who are feeding them this information, everyone here thinks they’re in the right. They think they’re doing the right thing.

Religious conservatives who send their kids to conversion therapy are so scared that their children are going to eternal damnation that they’re willing to put their kid through hell on earth so they aren’t tortured forever. TERFs genuinely think that we’re a danger to their feminism and that with our presence all that they’ve worked for will crumble and women will go back to not being people. Pick-mes and exclusionaries have been so scared by the system and the hate around them that they feel the only way they can protect themselves is to take others down. Transphobic queers are also scared, scared that our existence means that what they’ve worked for will be undone. People who say we’re influencing their kids are genuinely worried for their kids.

And I’ll never defend their actions and their words. Those words kill, and hurt in ways both physical and mental. There is no excuse for transphobia. But it’s also so important to remember where this is coming from. Why they’re doing this. It’s the system of grifters, accelerationists, and power-hungry maniacs who have fed these lies to people and made them so scared that they do this to others. Their aim has always been to divide us, and right now it’s working. Are the things that these people saying ok? No. But we can never forget that their actions come out of fear that was already taught to them.

So I want to remind everyone, as hard as it is to start with compassion. Not forgiveness, not acceptance, but compassion. These people are scared and angry and vulnerable just like we are. They want to do right. And we’ve all heard the stories of people who changed. Family members who changed their views on trans people after seeing how much happier their trans family was after coming out. Ex flat-earthers who had someone try to talk to them with compassion instead of yelling (I know it’s not the same thing, but my point stands.) compassion can change people, so much more than yelling can. Telling people that they’re wrong and how they’re hurting others isn’t gonna change anything. Ever. It’s starting with what we have in common and working our way up that changes people. Start with community. Start with compassion. It’s not easy, I know. It’s hard to find common ground with some of these people. But without them we will fail. We’re spending so much energy fighting each other and fighting other marginalized groups that we forget where this comes from. We say it every pride: love wins. Spread love not hate. Well it’s time to put that into action.

We tell it to them and we need to say it to ourselves: tearing others down isn’t going to build the movement up.

I wanna reiterate. I’m not saying that their words should be ignored and they should be instantly forgiven. I’m saying that we always need to start with compassion. Start with knowing they’re just as scared and angry and hurt as we are. We won’t win by tearing each other down.

[liminalweirdo]

i don't know if it's just being raised queer that alienates you from the queer experience, but I think you're right about queerness still being more rooted in the societal mindset as more misery than joy.

But I also think there's lots of reasons that some other queer people might feel alienated besides just being raised queer. Or put another way, I don't think queer families should worry about their queer kids ending up alienated. (Not saying this is what you were saying op, just that this is what your post made me think of, and the rest of this post is more my own rambling thoughts).

For me, as an autistic person with mostly queer/trans friends, I also didn't experience a lot of these things that my queer peers did -- at least not in the ways that my friends were experiencing them.

I don't remember coming out to my parents very well. There were arguments about the meaning of bisexuality. Back then my parents still called me greedy/only rock'n'roll stars do that (yes really lol)/it's a phase. There were arguments about living as a queer person and why that wasn't good or what my parents wanted for me, and there was endless annoyance at my relatives constantly asking me whether or not I had a boyfriend like that was the only option (sigh). I didn't end up homeless like some queer people I knew, when they were kicked out, but I am living with the threat of homelessness as an adult. I think we also sometimes forget that the queer experience continues beyond teenage and young-adulthood, and programs are no longer in place for us beyond that. It's very similar to autism in that way. It's like people think autism stops existing after 18. Look up anything on autism and it's "your autistic child..."

But yeah, the gender binary stuff was always pretty *shrug* to me because the rules were too arbitrary for me and my autistic brain to really give a shit about beyond "don't misgender my friends." (also... we didn't even have words like 'misgender' back then, at least not where i grew up). Basically, I didn't have a super solid differentiation between 'boys' and girls' and what that meant (in the mindset of society at the time) which was also a huge part of the reason why it took me so long to realize that I was trans, too.

I remember not feeling comfortable or welcome in queer spaces because I felt like queerness was so good and the GSA at my school didn't feel that way. I remember feeling uncomfortable in the queer community where I grew up (in a PRETTY small town) because that dynamic wasn't something that I jived with with my neurodivergent brain. I still feel excluded from pride and other queer spaces because nobody's making it accessible to people with visible and invisible disabilities (like by wearing masks and ensuring that the space around the building is also accessible, and and and. I could talk forever about this, too). But my exclusion doesn't mean I don't love my community, I just think that queer people need to work harder on realizing that there are many different types of queers, many ways to be that way, and many queers who are poor/disabled/neurodivergent/mentally ill/culturally different/raised different/less educated/less privileged etc. etc. etc. And I believe that eventually we will get there, but it's going to take a lot of work and being queer and marginalized doesn't exempt you from doing it.

I think that being surrounded by queer people (friends, parents, community) does sort of dilute the experience, though. Or soften it somehow?

I'm sorry that you, or I, or anybody feels alienated from our community, but a lot of us are. And yeah we base a lot of the queer experience on the struggle, still. My partner says that he doesn't doesn't feel queer enough because he came out as an adult and didn't experience some of the vitriol that happens to queer teens in middle and high school, but of course that doesn't actually make him less queer. I think there might actually be a little bit of danger in thinking of queerness as suffering; in forgetting that queer people who are different from us are still just as queer, and that being queer is a fucking incredible, wonderful thing.

I remember back when every single queer movie ended in AIDS or death or not being able to come out or be together. All of the gay media I grew up with barely touched queerness at all, or it ended in tragedy. To this day, I brace myself before watching anything queer because I'm so indoctrinated to think that it's going to be super depressing. And like... queer movies aren't actually often like that anymore? (They're often kind of vapid. Queer movies for straight people, but that's a whole OTHER post).

Anyway, I wanted to talk about this because I hope that that alienation doesn't mean that some queer people can't often relate to other queer folks. There are queer people out there for you! I think there are lots (and hopefully more and more) queer people who also didn't struggle so significantly as we used to growing up queer for a multitude of reasons. Neurodivergency, prevalence of queer friends, different media focusing less on the 'tragedy' of queerness etc.

so guys turns out that being raised by queer people alienates me from the queer experience. probably not a good thing

[vtori73]

Ugh... I just, personally as a genderfluid person don't get how people seem to TRUELY believe trans masc/men are more susceptible to being misogynistic than LITERALLY anyone else. EVERYONE has the ability to be misogynistic, EVERYONE!!! I would argue cis people in general are more prone to being horribly misogynistic than any trans person, honestly. I mean... do y'all seriously forget how misogynistic white conservative women can get?

So why the fuck do y'all think trans masc/men are an extra special case that are somehow worse about it? Misogyny isn't stored in the testosterone or gender you know, if it were we wouldn't have horribly sexist women but we do so what EXACTLY are y'all actually trying to say here???

Look, all I'm saying is the way people are speaking & treating trans masc/men feels & looks no differently to how people treat bi people, ace people, etc. It just feels like y'all found a new acceptable target to punch down or sideways at because why is it that trans masc/men seem to be singled out for supposed "bad" things they do that aren't at all limited to them BUT also at the same time are ignored anytime anyone brings up the specific oppression and problems they face. And what's extra "funny" about all this is that it all comes from the same place, terf/rad fem talking points that y'all REFUSE to actually learn from & finally move past!!!!

Again, this especially reminds me of talking points people use against bisexuals, specifically bisexual women, because of our assumed proximity to men we get treated like we're sapphic traitors regardless of who we are dating and are told we have to make sure we aren't prioritizing men even though ANYONE has the capacity to do that (romantic/sexual relationship aren't the only ones that exist you know) yet for SOME reason we are told we have to stay vigilant & watch ourselves & who we are with because we can put the fragile pure sapphics who don't date men in danger & that we are basically asking for it if anything happens to us because our our assumed proximity to men. It's all just so *screams internally* ...frustrating.

I've come to honestly distrust a lot of the online queer community because of this, no, not specifically because of anti transmasc/men sentiment but because of this continued refusal to dig deeper and learn about/from the past & queer politics and finally learn to see the patterns of infighting and bigotry repeat themselves because NONE of this is new!!!!!! All of this basically has its roots in political lesbianism (if your queer & don't know anything about political lesbianism you should, but basically the gist is they were a group of straight women who infiltrated the lesbian community & kicked out anyone who wasn't basically a "pure lesbian" & spouted ideas that ANY involvement with men was a betrayal to each other/the group & very sexist puritanical beliefs/ideas on sex & the damage caused from that still lives on today. It just takes on a slightly new form when it gets exposed again & again but so few of you learn from this shit and seem to forget immediately what it once looked like and just happily continue the cycle because shitting on other queer people is easier & more fulfilling to yall than actually doing something productive for the overall community).

I've also said this before on a different post but y'all lumping in trans men with cis men to talk about how much "privilege" we have is not at all progressive especially since it's the only time you ever bother to remember trans men/masc people exist. Say it with me, trans men cannot and never will have the privilege cis men have because that is not how our whiteallocisheteropatriarchal society works. Trans people are not desired or wanted in our society & thus do not have or are given the same privilege that cis men get for being CIS, same with men of color, disabled men, etc. Can marginalized men punch sideways or down at people that are equal to or less privileged than them? Yes, but... that's not unique to us specifically, not even close, & honestly the people I believe we should be most concerned about leveraging their power over others & being a hindrance to the community/our liberation is any white queer person/ally, I mean even Silvia Rivera basically said this.

It honestly happens all the time too, especially in these vast instances of infighting because white people do not like acknowledging they have the capacity to oppress others and want to believe they have no privilege because of their other marginalized identities like being queer. It's no different from the allocishetero white people who do this in other marginalized spaces they are supposedly being allies in only the marginalized white people can't & refuse to see the privilege they have for being white because it didnt/doesn't protect them from the bigotry they face for their marginalized identity/ies. The white privilege they were promised at birth doesn't shield them as much as they were expecting it would and thus refuse to believe they have any at all because of it.

Oh, and also on a related note passing privilege isn't really a legit thing or is a concept I at least refuse to entertain. If you have to hide who you are in order to pass which is something that's not even accessible to all that many trans people in general it wasn't/isn't really all that much of a privilege to begin with meaning it's conditional and thus null in void. Personally I feel this is just white people pushing the blame off of them & their white privilege onto this so called "passing privilege."

...

(Read more below because the thoughts below aren't as articulated as I would hope so while I stand by them I'm probably not explaining them well enough for others to understand)

It's also a continued way to punch sideways/down at other identities and people they don't like & refuse to understand such as bi, pan, ace, aro, trans, enby & whoever else despite the fact that many seem to glaringly ignore a hole in their logic that if passing privilege is real legit concept then anyone who isn't allocishetero can obtain it, not just identities you THINK can pass more easily. If other queer people can choose to pass so easily then everyone else has the capacity to do so as well. It's not really all that different from the argument made by homophobes that gay people choose to be gay, if it's such a choice why would it be so much harder for you to ignore who you are to gain/maintain this so called privilege then? And, not to mention this concept can't exist in a vacuum, many other factors can affect "passing" that is hard/impossible for specific marginalized groups and will be heavily influenced by white patriarchal ideals. Those able to obtain this so called privilege the easiest would, again, be white middle/upper class people & yet this concept is used willy nilly on huge swats of groups that are full of a various individuals who can't really obtain or access "passing privilege" but are treated like they can.

Tbf, when I say this it's based more so on my location/the US and some of this may apply less in other areas around the world but regardless i do believe anyone can gain passing privilege so long as you hide who you are which in my eyes makes it a useless concept then because having to live your life a lie doesn't really seem all that much of a privilege especially since it can and will be revoked if you get exposed and may even lead to extreme harassment or violence.

[rhetoricandlogic]

Vital and Urgent: System Collapse by Martha Wells

Vital and Urgent: System Collapse by Martha Wells

Vital and Urgent: System Collapse by Martha Wells

Alex Brown

Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:30am

Martha Wells returns to the Murderbot Diaries with the seventh book, System Collapse. It begins immediately after the events of the fifth book, Network Effect (book six, Fugitive Telemetry, actually takes place before book five and seven). Murderbot is just beginning to deal with the trauma of the earlier events, which I won’t spoil but involve a deeply unethical megacorporation, reckless human settlers, and invasive ancient alien technology. But before it can deal with its own mental health issues—or even acknowledge that it has any—it has to deal with representatives from said unethical megacorporation. Barish-Estranza has sent rescuers to the planet, and by “rescuers” I mean mercenaries who plan to indenture (forcibly if necessary) the surviving colonists and strip the planet of whatever resources it can extract. If they have to kill Murderbot’s humans to do that, they will.

Complicating matters are the colonists themselves. They don’t trust Murderbot’s crew anymore than they do Barish-Estranza. Furthermore, decades ago another set of colonists vanished on the other side of the planet. Are they alive and hiding, contaminated by killer alien technology, or plain old dead? Murderbot, a pack of humans, and a piece of ART the spaceship’s AI head off to find out, with Barish-Estranza hot on their heels.

The only thing I found frustrating with System Collapse was how it felt less like its own novella and more like 240 pages cut from Network Effect. I spent the first half of the story having no idea what was going on or why until I finally put the book aside and went back and read reviews and plot summaries of Network Effect. Murderbot went through a pretty traumatic experience in book five that directly impacts its life and job in book seven. Because of that trauma, Murderbot doesn’t want to engage with those memories and interrupts its own narration with “[redacted]”. Eventually Murderbot reveals enough that the reader can piece together the parts that they’ve forgotten to get the gist. It’s a stylistic choice that makes total sense with a narrator like Murderbot and feeds into readers’ own forgetfulness in interesting ways.

However, it’s also somewhat annoying for readers who haven’t been in this story since spring 2020. I struggle enough with books coming out a year apart, but three years—especially these past three years—means I basically came into book seven as fresh as newly fallen snow. I think the book needed a more thorough recap and much earlier in the story. Anyone who hasn’t read Network Effect yet should wait on System Collapse until they’ve caught up. This really is a story for current fans rather than new readers. (Newbies, I suggest the first novella, All Systems Red, obviously, or Fugitive Telemetry, a fun standalone hardboiled detective noir set on a space station.)

Really, if that’s the only complaint I could muster, you know it’s a good book. I enjoyed every moment of it, even the frustrating ones. Martha Wells has a way of writing that makes me want to crawl into the pages and live in the world she’s created. The world feels so tangible, its history bigger than the sliver we see and its cultures complex and colorful. So far I’ve only read her Murderbot series and Witch King (which I also adored immensely), but I found both to be rich, vivid worlds populated with realistic characters in riotously diverse cultures and societies.

She also does something with her fantasy and sci-fi work that I don’t see as often as I’d like: ignore the gender binary. There aren’t queer characters in the sense of queerness we have in our world. In Wells’ books, queerness isn’t a marginalization or something that exists outside the “normal” or the binary. There just isn’t a binary. Some people use he/him, some use she/her, and others use any of the countless other pronouns available across the galaxy. Pronouns and gender identities are as vast and personal as there are types of people. No one treats pronouns like anything special, no one speculates about what body parts they have under their suits or what bathrooms they use, no one challenges anyone else’s pronoun usage based on their own personal, social, religious, political, or cultural preferences. Her stories imagine worlds where queer people get to be people, in all the mess that entails, without having to justify, explain, or fight for our existence. In real life I can barely get cis people to remember to use they/them for me, so yeah, I get outsized joy at reading about a world where everyone gets to be who they are without anyone else barging in to try and make you feel bad about it.

Look, there’s not much to say about Martha Wells’ System Collapse that hasn’t already been said before about the rest of the Murderbot Diaries books. It’s wild fun, action-packed, and reflective in unexpected ways. The strong undercurrent of critique on capitalism and colonialism, the themes of trauma and mental health, and the unencumbered diversity take a relatively harmless science fiction series and turn it into something vital and urgent.

[babyjoysdiary]

Today I learned some people are really committed to not understanding you…they will hide behind fake apologies and weird ass phrasing and victim mentality.

Like Sign

Like Saman

Like KV

And I’m not gonna say it’s done white shit…but they all do got white momma’s.

Light skins twist your words like no other.

Like KV my housemate was being fucking anti-black in this goddamn house hold. But they making it solely about me calling out their fear… and saying “irreparable harm” and that there is no room for their harm.

Like playing victim like imma leave this house since I can’t not be anti-black.

What. The. Fuck.

Saying they won’t even cook in the kitchen and will just stay in their room or not come home.

And I know I said that too…and I was also in that victim role…but this feels manipulative

Like they are aware of what they are doing

I can feel it in their phrasing and not actually listening to me.

I say hey just work on this abs they say they can’t hear the pressure or the reality of causing me more harm since “there is no room for their fear and it’s inherently anti-black”.

I’m just done. I can’t do the mental gymnastics. Like they were using the words “compromise” and “expectations” when I said I was frustrated. And yea if you can’t give me rides, I’m not gonna do all the dishes. And I don’t care that one caused the other.

I don’t have the capacity to put in more than others. And the fact that they are centering on this idea that it’s their fear and not their actions and mentality?!?!

Yea, the praying with Micah worked.

I’m not mad or even sad. Well I’m both.

But I have control. I’m not gonna go upstairs and yell that I know what their manipulative ass , white ass, insidious ass more sly and a bigger threat than white people motherfucking ass is doing

Nor am I gonna keep messaging them explaining myself. It’s not just their fear painting me out to be aggressive, nor was it ever. It was and is their mentality and approach. The whose is me, I guess I’m just a racist and should call it quits

That “since there id no room for my fear and it’s inherently anti-black” that is so reductive and not what I was tryna say.

And I know that. And that’s all that tucking matters.

Bro I really get gaslit everyday.

Just listen cause people in the group chat for the protest that’s happening tomorrow really forgot it was Remus, and she wanted to honor the trans woman who was almost beaten to death not but two week ago. And why queers over took it and then had the audacity to talk shit about President Andrew Jenkins… I wish you fucking wrong for Voting the way she did yes and his part of this bullshit her karma yes but at the same time I don’t think that gives people the right to not see to not see her humanity. I also just think is not fucking conclusion or logical to be like this black person in this trans person this other marginalized person has harmed me and votes against our collective wishes. Therefore, she doesn’t deserve space therefore, she shouldn’t be able to speak like she’s in a position of fucking power and she’s hurting us and she’s hurting her self like casting her out and yelling at her Soli not yelling at her and also giving her tea not yelling at her and also cooking her meal just yelling at her and not holding space where it doesn’t fucking work like that it doesn’t it doesn’t and I should know that better than anybody… Anyway … in this fucking group chat they were ripping her to shreds and saying she had no right to be there… Forgetting that she was in the group chat and people act as if they didn’t know she was in a group chat when they were called out for it as well as try to backpedal and say that it’s not that they were trying to control where she was or when she spoke but it was a concern for her safety and it wasn’t. That’s a lie. They think that she should be punished for the way that she votes and it’s not that I disagree. It’s more the fact that if we say we are organizing for trans, joy and rage and collective power. It’s a pussy ass move to tell people who are canceled or politically spicy. They can’t come. How dare you call yourself an activist willing to do the tough work and then ban somebody from coming to to the protest or saying, that fuck her leader ship since she is a bad leader, she doesn’t deserve to speak at one point in my youth I would’ve agreed, but it’s like times are too fucking dire, there’s too many trans fucking bills trying to kill us and police trying to kill us and I know she aided in the police shit we get this she still in power so being nasty and mean to her that’s not gonna get her to change the way she votes and you know why I know that because today Daddy-O in the group chat was very sincere and vulnerable and nice when talking about how the group chat was anti-black and they didn’t care. They didn’t respond well and pushed back and then when I came in with that heat and got into their asses and was mean they again lied and said it was just about worrying for Andrea’s safety know they want her punished they want her punished and well I can see invalidate that point of you I don’t know how you can call yourself a radical if that’s the stance you take because she still is a black trans woman not… Excuses her and she shouldn’t be held accountable. It just means that we can’t treat her like a criminal will you can’t say you’re for abolition and then treat people as if they’re criminals even when they commit a crime I know it sucks it’s bullshit. It doesn’t feel good it’s not sexy there’s no movies written about it barely any books written about it. I just know that if I have the where fall and the talent and the skills I would want to be able to talk to someone who is like a Candace Owens as with much grace as I talk to anyone in my family when I’m not activated. All bets are off when I’m activated and maybe it’s because, I have been activated in the past with Andrea. I am currently able to come at it with a little bit of a clear head, a little bit of a more equitable point of you at the end of the day, though these folks were called out for their anti-blackness, and they resisted it avoided. It said that it was merely about safety, and the wishes of their comrades of others, and yeah they’re a whole bunch of black and brown people. Don’t fuck with Andrea and that’s cool

[rainbowsky]

Hi I’ve seen your post about gg’s recent vacation pictures. Yeah he is so hot there.

To me biggest candy is gg’s rainbow zenith watch. What do you think?

The legs in pool pic, can’t it be a just coincidence? I mean it’s a French movie, an old one too. What are the chances gg to see it? I mean it’s not a popular one like for an example call me by your name right??

This is in reference to a previous post.

Yeah, he really is! 🔥🔥🔥

Here's the thing, Anon...

It's CPN. CPN means looking at things through the perspective of a belief that GG are queer and in a relationship. Because of this, some things will land a different way than they would on solos, or even on turtles who don't believe GG and DD are in a real relationship.

And as a candy, it's also open to individual interpretation - ie. no one is obligated to believe in it. Nor is anyone obligated to try to discredit it. This isn't a courtroom.

We'll likely never see any interpretation fully validated or confirmed one way or another, so people should just enjoy what they enjoy, and scroll past what they don't enjoy.

As for your theories on why this particular interpretation is unlikely, you might be right, but I personally don't see it that way. GG is a film and TV buff who has repeatedly referenced dramas and films with queer elements in his posts and performances.

As a gay film buff, I actively seek out queer movies. Trust me, there simply aren't that many in the world. Especially not good ones. The chances that any particular gay guy has watched a particular gay movie is surprisingly high, no matter how obscure it might seem.

The French have some amazing gay films, and anyway, gay film appreciation requires one to look to global markets, just by nature of the fact that gay films rarely get made and are often marginalized in the industry. Especially if you happen to be Chinese and it's more difficult to find openly queer content in your country.

And we can't forget the fact that DD (and by extension CPN-wise, GG) has a lot of French connections who have recently descended upon Hangzhou to film a show.

So it wouldn't be that strange for GG to be referencing a French gay movie from the year his husband was born.

I’m not saying it’s a huge candy, but it’s not without some potential validity.

Call Me By Your Name, while an excellent film that I've watched an autism amount of times (like, well over 200 times and I'm not joking), isn't the only gay film out there. Gay content that's popular in North America is by no means the only gay content out there.

The rainbow Zenith watch is a great candy. He's worn rainbow Zenith watches a few times now and even chose it to represent love in a Zenith Qixi campaign. So yeah, it's a great candy.

So to answer your question, Anon, yes, the pool legs pic could be a coincidence or it might not. If that candy doesn't taste sweet to you, no worries. There are other things to enjoy.