#but I put in the work when its asked
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pallanophblargh · 11 months ago
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Good things: I've been invited to partake in a certain exhibit regarding a certain author since I've had the privilege of illustrating the covers for the UK edition of a certain fantasy series.
Not so good things: I've lost most of the scans for the 8 illustrations (I think I only have 3? 4?) so that means I need to figure out WHERE I stashed the originals. I know I HAVE them, so that's some comfort. But I have so many stashes. And it's been... 10+ years and two moves. On top of that, they may need retouching. Fun times!
A minor "conundrum": I finally need to decide where I would like to offer said illustrations for print. I have a society6, but it is rather dusty these days. That aside, the print quality seems pretty decent (I have not seen with my own actual eyes, but considering I've yet to hear otherwise, I'd say they go over well.) That said, if anyone has opinions/experiences on print on demand storefronts, I'd love to hear them. I'll say in advance I would prefer to not handle printing them myself. If you know, you know.
So yeah: Things! Winged horses abound, and the search for my old art begins. If you are a fan of the old Green Rider series illustrations, watch this space?
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daisybell-on-a-carousel · 21 days ago
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Being someone who read Under The Red Hood and came out with the firm belief that, for Jason, it's not about killing Joker, it's about Jason wanting proof Batman would choose him over the Joker (bc shelia chose the joker). Makes seeing any other media where it's all about just wanting the Joker dead is a teeny bit frustrating. to be honest
Jason could've killed the Joker himself, really, really easily. Jason kidnaps the Joker before the confrontation. I can't open my comic for a reference right now, but it felt like he had the Joker for quite a bit before the confrontation. He had him. He beat him up with a crowbar. He had every single opportunity to kill the Joker himself, but he didn't because that wasn't his goal. Make no mistake, he did plan for the Joker to be dead by the end of it, but do you see what im trying to say here
Edit: If I knew this post was gonna get 1000+ notes I would've tried to word it better or something, this was a rant I made on the way to the grocery store 😭
It's not about making Batman kill either. When Batman says he won't kill, Jason adjusts and goes, 'Let ME kill the Joker or kill me to stop me' instead. The test is all about Batman choosing him. The whole final confrontation is Jason's first death again. The parent, The Joker, and the explosives. It even ends with Jason unable to move as a bomb goes off right next to him again because the parent didn't choose Jason. And instead tried finding an option that'd benefit them and (consequencely) letting the Joker walk, again, lol, lmao <-in agony
#the final confrontation was basically his first death again#and YES he Does want the Joker dead#and it would've been really really nice if Batman was the one who did it#but when batman made it clear he wouldn't kill the joker. Jason easily switched to saying “LET me kill the joker” to accommodate#because he Wanted batman to pass his test#he gave a test to dick too. and technically tim but it wasnt the family test it was a different one so it doesnt rly count#AFTER utrh and the reveal and the batarang you can go hog wild about it. i care less about it then#granted i do believe they make jason more scared of the joker after it at some point#i guess because hes a bit too willing to kill the joker and ive heard jason wasnt meant to live after utrh#my watsonian explain for that is he was so fixated on his plan he cpuld override his fear. or maybe the pit. either work#i prefer the fixation bc i dont like the explanation that the pit was the /only/ reason he could get all plan together and done#BUT THATS UNRELATED!!!#dc stop putting the joker in jason stories im begging you please please please. lock him in a vault for the next 20 years or something#it Cpuld be good and i understand. but also. after so long of people that dont know or go for jasons need for family and parents#that love him and he can trust#the joker starts to feel like?? hm. words. a cop out? oh haha its that guy that killed him woagh hes here#i bet you dont even know that jaybin got beat until unconsciousness by an angry mob#while asking batman to save him only for batman to have to walk away#anwya. where was i going with this#i think i got off topic#jason todd#dc comics#batman#ADDED AN EDIT. SORRY. this post has been haunting me it keeps me awake. what if people misunderstand#they cant read my tags where i ramble more depth. thisbis the only option#EDIT EDIT: hiii#removed the sentence abt jason having the joker for several days bc i misremembered some things#go read its-your-mind 's addition instead also#ok no more i wont edit this post anymore i promise
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persona-brainrot-real · 4 months ago
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Sae Niijima is such a good character it drives me insane a little. She's not a mother nor a maternal or doting older sister but instead a twenty four year old who was thrown into a position of responsibility that she never asked for. She loves Makoto just as much as she resents her and its so apparent every time they talk up until November. "Are you studying?" (I want you to do well) (I need you to get a job and stop making my life harder) "I'll use any method necessary to get this promotion" (Life will be easier for us) (So stop distracting me with your problems) "Focus on your future" (I know that you're capable) (I can't afford to waste my time on you, so stop wasting time on others)
Makoto is not only the sole reason she pushes as hard as she does for a promotion, for success, and the reason that she loses herself in her animosity over her fathers death, but also someone she can't stand for so long. Makoto was 14-15 when their father died. Sae was 21. As soon as she got the career she wanted and things started to look up, her stability was robbed from her and she was disillusioned with the system that her father had taught her to rely on and completely adhere to. How do you manage, the daughter of a cop, following his footsteps towards law enforcement, when you're suddenly reminded of how unfair it is? You can't quit, your little sister relies on you and she's so young and struggling just as badly with this grief. So you pick yourself up and you get moving again. You push harder, press further. You abandon your morals and your ethics because punishing criminals (guilty or not) is almost like punishing the man who killed your father.
And the whole time she's fighting for promotions, going for drinks with the SIU Director to make herself more favourable for promotions, trying to navigate being a woman in a competitive, suffocating, male-dominated field, falling behind despite doing so much where others are promoted for doing so little - all the while your little sister comes back from school and her biggest issues are so small compared to yours.
Persona 5 revolves so heavily around grief and loss and change and Sae embodies all of that so well, all of the sharp and unpleasant and jagged parts of grief.
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deoidesign · 3 months ago
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Thinking about vampires, death, life, and the space they occupy in between
#to be or not to be. that is the question#ty adam for being my model for dramatic vampire moment#musings on the thinkings about:#when to live you are required to hurt others. you must repeatedly ask yourself what the value of your life is#To sleep... perchance to dream...#ah. THERES THE RUB.#ok I actually couldnt come up with too many thoughts. I had a lot more while I was drawing this but I guess I put them in the painting LOL#reading that soliloquy and being like damn this is just like vampires#the reality of course is that the soliloquy is a debate over suicide and ultimately making the choice to live#even if just out of fear of the unknown#and vampires are about dying and then in undeath choosing to continue to live#despite the fear of eternity and loneliness and hurting others#theyre not the same. but like let me thiiink come onnnn I'm allowed to thiiink and have incomplete thoughts#I would have to write like a proper essay about this to organize my thoughts. this is the tags on a tumblr post.#anyways finished episode 79#working on patreon stickers for this month (and next month soon)#and working on book 4. taking a pause from episodes cause I've got 3 weeks of buffer now... UGH#I'm so mad that they changed it. it would have been 5 weeks before but it's fine it's whatever#anyways yeah taking a break from episodes to make my book now!#its good stuff.#and this painting is good stuff#banger after banger from me tbh#this was a little relaxing giving myself a couple hours to muse#it's necessary for my health and I always forget that til I do a painting...#I loved doing the little landscape in the background too I should do that more! I love how plants are just like whatever shape you want#like you can make up any plant you want and not only does that plant PROBABLY exist somewhere#a weirder plant exists somewhere too. so. literally whatever you want#ok bye again for a few days while I get back to work
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spacedlexi · 1 year ago
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"sounds nice... having a partner"
#the walking dead game#twdg#violentine#clementine twdg#violet twdg#MAANN when clem says this in s3 JUST WAIT BBY#people who say clemvi has no basis like ep2 isnt just them working as a team for 2 and a half hours regardless of player choice#like be fr#clem telling louis that violet patching up the back wall is ok because she needed something to keep herself busy. married behavior#vi asking clem to help check in on everyone while she deals with the wall. their shared smile when she comes back outside :)#and then they sit in the leadership spot together overlooking the yard and everything theyve planned together coming to fruition :)#sorry i just think their romance set up in eps 1 and 2 is obvious as FUCK and im tired of (Some) people pretending it isnt#'i havent seen her warm up to someone in a long time' brody literally tells clem that vi seems to like her after its been 24 hours#after shes been a block of ice for a whole year. and clem just melted those walls down immediately while they fought walkers together#violet is so devoted to clem post ep1 its embarrassing for her#'i saw she had you pinned and i- shit i got So crazy...' sorry if you dont think shes in love with clem idk what to tell you#'i'll tear that boat apart before we leave without you' i know you would girlie!!!#the animators went CRAAZAYAYAYAY the way they look at each other... their little smiles at each other....even before the belltower#the way clem looks at her while they dance.... the way she puts her head down on her shoulder so contentedly....#and then she keeps her head on violets shoulder as she pulls away so clems chin gets dragged with it like she doesnt want to let go#'so you never forget that night' 'i never will' they are DISGUSTINGLY in love with each other it makes me physically ill#its 2024 and im still hearing 'i just didnt see it :/'. lazerbeams you#spaced art 2024
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blueskittlesart · 4 months ago
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*sigh* thoughts on Nintendo's botw/totk timeline shenanigans and tomfoolery?
tbh. my maybe-unpopular opinion is that the timeline is only important when a game's place on the timeline seriously informs the way their narrative progresses. the problem is that before botw we almost NEVER got games where it didn't matter. it matters for skyward sword because it's the beginning, and it matters for tp/ww/alttp (and their respective sequels) because the choices the hero of time makes explicitly inform the narrative of those games in one way or another. it matters which timeline we're in for those games because these cycles we're seeing are close enough to oot's cycle that they're still feeling the effects of his choices. botw, however, takes place at minimum 10 thousand years after oot, so its place on the timeline actually functionally means nothing. botw is completely divorced from the hero of time & his story, so what he does is a nonissue in the context of botw link and zelda's story. thus, which timeline botw happens in is a nonissue. honestly I kind of liked the idea that it happened in all of them. i think there's a cool idea of inevitability that can be played with there. but the point is that the timeline exists to enhance and fill in the lore of games that need it, and botw/totk don't really need it because the devs finally realized they could make a game without the hero of time in it.
#i really do have a love-hate relationship with this timeline#because it's FASCINATING lore. genuinely. and i think it carries over the themes of certain games REALLY well#but i also think it's indicative of a trend in loz's writing that has REALLY annoyed me for a long time#which is this intense need to cling to oot#and on a certain level i get it. that was your most successful game probably ever. and it was an AMAZING game.#and i think there's definitely some corporate profit maximization tied up in this too--oot was an insane commercial success therefore you'r#not allowed to make new games we need you to just remake oot forever and ever#and that really annoys me because it makes certain games feel disjointed at best and barely-coherent at worst.#i think the best zelda games on the market are the ones where the devs were allowed to really push what they were working with#oot. majora. botw. hell i'd even put minish cap in there#these are games that don't quite follow what was the standard zelda gameplay at their time of release. they were experimental in some way#whether that be with graphics or puzzle mechanics or open-world or the gameplay premise in its entirety. there's something NEW there#and because the devs of those games were given that level of freedom the gameplay really enforces the narrative. everything feels complete#and designed to work together. as opposed to gameplay that feels disjointed or fights against story beats. you know??#so I think that the willingness to allow botw and totk to exist independently from the timeline is good at the very least from a developmen#standpoint because it implies a willingness to. stop making shitty oot remakes and let developers do something interesting.#and yes i do very much fear that the next 20 years of zelda will be shitty BOTW remakes now#in which botw link appears and undergoes the most insane character assassination youve ever seen in your life#but im trying to be optimistic here. if botw/totk can exist outside the timeline then we may no longer be stuck in the remake death loop#and i'm taking eow as a good sign (so far) that we're out of the death loop!! because that game looks NOTHING like botw or oot.#fingers crossed!!#anyway sorry for the game dev rant but tldr timeline good except when it's bad#asks#zelda analysis
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yuwuta · 6 months ago
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gojo would kill your work husband. but if he were the work husband, that's a different story
REAL!! he’s such a hypocrite because if someone mentioned you had a work husband, his entire world would stop and he wold devise the absolute worst plans to make sure that your co-worker, everyone at your job, and everyone in the next building over knew that he was happily committed to you 
but if he is the work husband, he’s very........ dutiful in his role. there’s a loose office/lawyer au in my head where satoru is your secretary, and for all intents and purposes, your personal assistant, and he’s good at his job, but mostly because he considers his job to be pleasing you. he has coffee for you when you arrive, he moves your schedule around without you asking, he has answers to questions before you can even ask them, he has fresh flowers on your desk weekly, pokes into your meetings to pretend to hand you a file that’s really just maybe a single document in a manilla folder with candy on top of it—he’s made himself your business, your partner; he’s made himself irreplaceable, and he loves to remind everybody of that fact. 
he’s also extremely loyal. sure, he could day a week’s worth of work done in about a day, but that doesn’t mean he’ll just use his talents for anybody. he’s your secretary, so he’s at your beck and call, and everyone knows it. they know he’s the best, but also that he’s off limits—not because you won’t share him, but because satoru won’t let himself be shared. 
he also extends his duties beyond work, of course. when he hands you a print out of your schedule for the day and you’re confused by the three-hour block of time you have in the middle of the day, satoru just helps you shrug your coat of your shoulders and smiles, “that’s for the lunch date you have with me, of course!” hanging up your coat in your closet for you, “i’m paying, see you soon, sweets.” and because you’re great at your job, and satoru helps you be great, nobody really questions when the two of you have time for a 13-course tasting menu at 1pm on a tuesday afternoon. and if they did, all satoru would say that you two had a lovely date 
#anonymous#he's like donna from suits but worse because he's like if harvey were donna LOL#i have soooooo much to say about him#he doesn't really Have to work he's a nepotism baby supreme#but he met you maybe in undergrad? and he's been obsessed w you since#he knows youre a workaholic so he's dutifully sat by your side all these years through college through grad/professional school#and when you told him you got to hire your own assistant he was the very first applicant#because getting paid to spend his days with you and take care of you? he was already doing that for free might as well make it official#everyone in the office knows satoru loves you except you honestly#he probably has his own masters/JD but elects to be your assistant anyway bc that's so much more fun#what he Really wants to be a househusband but first he's gotta ask you out and propose and all that good stuff (cue him rolling his eyes#and going on about formalities and boring systems and blah blah blah)#also in the office au in my head: nanami (also senior partner) higuruma ofc <3 beloved (managing partner) and TOJI!#WALK WITH ME!#its honestly probably satoru's influence that gets toji into law... as someone who so feverently broke it in the past#idk maybe there's a megumi situation that makes gojo be like yk if ur this good at skirting/breaking the law youd probably be half decent#at enforcing it... or at least helping other people get around it too#and so lawyer toji is born#does he screw around w the rich people who r stupid w their money? absolutely#but you nanami and higuruma just let it be bc he brings in those settlements better than anybody else....#hmmm... i kinda wanna make megumi somebody's associate but also..... yuuta.....#i think i just like sticking yuuta in a tie if im being real#but anyway... satoru is your Work Husband and everyone knows he wants to be your real husband#but they just let it slide bc rumour has it even tho hes just a secretary hes got equity in the firm?? and besides that his heart eyes give#away his hopeless devotion from a mile away#the day you actually start seeing somebody outside of work... oh theyre in for Trouble#satoru x reader#him dragging you out of ur office late at night and u protesting so he just. puts u over his shoulder#and ur telling him to let u down but he's insisting u go home and then nanami pops out of his office#and ur like wait nanami this isnt what it looks like but he's so dead in the eyes when he just sighs
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paingoes · 1 month ago
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questions for conditioned characters
A) do they know what conditioning is? B) do they understand that they've been conditioned? C) how does this understanding, or lack thereof, affect their perception of themselves?
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ganondoodle · 4 months ago
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the company i work for decided that its switching from the german formal "You"(Sie) to the informal "you" (Du) in all of our websites so now we have to scour the entire database to change it and i quite frankly hate that, not just bc the unecessary extra work but especially bc its such a weird and unecessary change
i bet its bc everything here is getting englishfied (both literally and culturally it feels like, when my new boss talks its half in english bc every second german word is just replaced by an english one despite there being perfectly fine words for it in german too, its so annoying) and bc they want to sound more personal in hopes of getting more clients bc 'company is your fwiend uwu!!', i know this here is the amercian tm site so you wouldnt understand really but i do not want to be greeted with 'du' by companies, no, thats too personal, you dont know me and im not giving you my data, stay away!!
i guess thats how i would describe it .. the formal you is like a polite distance, like someone you dont know staying outside your personal space, but when its the informal 'you' it feels invasive unless i told you you can call me that, and that goes double for companies
maybe its a small thing that doesnt seem important but i cant stand it, im just a little part time worker doing data work so i got no say in it but the companies founder also announced hes giving his post to his kids some time ago so ...... since then theres been alot of changes and new projects that solely aim to imitate whats popular and whats done by other companies, despite ours being one that is, or used to be, intentionally different, like, that was the POINT, but i guess chasing trends is just too appealing for CEOs
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beskarfrog · 1 year ago
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For the artwork post: I think anything ancient greek would be so awesome (I'm a classics major) with dinluke, but if you want a specific reccomendation, I would say the vase painting of Achilles and Patroclus, where Patroclus is bandaging Achilles' wounds. I'm pretty sure I've seen someone draw it with dinluke before, but there can never be too much art!
my friend, that is absolutely galaxy brain!! here you go
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wallbeatjournal · 6 months ago
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Are true riverdale fans of the opinion it is a very good and nearly flawless show or does being a true riverdale fan mean being able to mock writing choices
it's long-running serial television plotted a season/half at a time so definitely not even "nearly" flawless.
BUT. i'm not doing combat with the writing team. i'm not actively reading against the text the way i have to in order to enjoy something like supernatural or the 90s robin comics or the fucking sopranos, which are patriarchal christiancore copworld rapeworld white supremacist horrorshows that hate their minority audiences, with like 2 good creatives involved and martyring themselves to fight the good fight on sparse rare installments if you try to approach them sincerely.
riverdale writing staff are like a favorite smart problematic tumblr mutual to me. I don't always like what's on their blog or who they're referencing. but we're in the same community and i'm interested and inspired and i trust their agenda overall, even when i see shit i wouldn't have fucking posted. but bc i'm not being condescended to or actively spited i'm not gonna condescend to or spite them, you know?
i expect rvd to age like twin peaks (another very uneven, highly referential serial juggling a couple of intensely cool metanarratives on top of its core story). and twin peaks fandom mocks twin peaks all the time. twin peaks includes some CLUNKY shit. it's kitsch. it's camp. it has a second season that is largely ASS. james is there. and on top of that it also includes some genuinely offputting-to-me stuff that just bothers me to sit through, even though i feel like i understand and respect what they're going for with it. i just don't want to watch someone sweep the fucking bar for minutes and minutes as entertainment. OK!!?
...so yeah. mock riverdale but in the right spirit. is that an answer? do i sound like i'm chugging the flavoraid koolaid fresh-aid? probably.
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puppyeared · 5 months ago
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learning abt friendship decay and "not reaching out to your friends for months at a time unprompted is not neurotypical behaviour" has me feeling a certain way
#experiencing some BIG FEELINGS OVER THIS REVELATION#listen i have never ever been bothered abt not seeing someone in a while or making time to talk to them bc in my mind its like not thst muc#time has passed. i mean it with every fibre of my being that when im like 'oh its ok even though we havent talked in a while and have our#own things going on it doesnt mean we're not friends anymore since we left things on a good note 8 months ago' i sincerely believe that#and for the longest time i just thought everybody makes peace with it at some point and not automatically assuming the other person doesnt#wanna talk to me anymore or smth. my longest lasting friendships are with ppl who work the same way i just thouhght that was normal#whatever organ everybody has that makes them reach out to their friends and plan hang outs i probably dont have it#i was already hesitant to ask out Alex bc i spend almost every waking hour doing smth that isnt talking to ppl unless they happen to be in#the vicinity. and at first it was bc i planned on making sure i had everything set up so i dont get stressed out and do it one at a time#but then i find out theres a friendship decay mechanic? and after dating and marrying someone you lose -10 friendship points for every#day u dont talk to them?? actually ive probably been losing friendship points this whole time without knowing bc of this?????#and i notice a lot of my own habits are also reflected in how i play bc ive been avoiding getting close to pierre and marnie since its more#of a professional relationship. like i know theyre npcs but im approaching it the way i would in real life its fucking nuts#i think its a little relieving im playing /as/ a character than myself bc as im playing im just making up little interactions in my head#than approaching things the way i would myself so it takes a bit of the stress off trying to put myself in there as a spectator. but well#being in a relationship demands a certain amount of energy even more so when theyre things that already take up energy on its own#like making time to talk to your partner and make sure they know theyre loved. i dont always have energy to put all my mental focus into it#and this is true for real life so im not really bothered by not dating anyone. but when its a game and i want my character to be with someo#and i know its fully optional and i know i could just apply the same logic to this i dont /want/ to. sometimes i want to experience#the same things other people do at least to a certain degree without the same emotional andmental stakes#no offense krobus#yapping#stardew#stardew valley#puppy plays sdv#sdv#this game has me by the ankles man
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al-luviec · 4 months ago
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Morro design + a ton of notes.
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autisticlancemcclain · 11 months ago
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Could you explain your position on Shallura? Since Allura was established as a teenager when she started dating Lance and Shiro was very clearly an adult. I can understand the bi shiro headcannon but the shallura thing worries me
i am going to remind yall that i have been in this fandom since 2016. and in the early seasons, allura was not established as a teenager. in fact she was coded as older, as closer to shiro's age -- there was a specific divide between her and the younger paladins that she did not have with shiro. they made her younger (both explicitly and in mannerisms) as the show went on. and i do not give a fuck about voltron like...post s4 and i didn't even watch s7-8. so like. especially with older fics, im going to enjoy shallura.
#also this is less relevant and i was going to put it in the main post but i cant find the words for it#but i found your last sentence kind of condescending. “the shallura thing worries me” as if i am your little project and things arent going#to plan. as if you are the Knower Of All Things and i am straying from my path lol. twas odd#and this is a controversial thing to say i know it but like#we take fandom way too seriously. if someone decides in fic to make two characters the same age to ship them or whatever. do we really need#to get the torches and pitchforks. like i can understand discomfort when people ship like shiro and pidge or something but. also. i feel#like you can just block and move on?? like i dont ship sheith bc they are brothers. to me. but also i dont think sheithers should be#harassed or any dumb shit like that. i think its so so whatever like theyre Lines man theyre moving lines#at the same time i understand that peoples headcanons can be reflective of their worldviews (like when racism/transphobia/sexism shine#through someone's headcanons/characterization) but how much scrutiny is too much? when do we get to remember that fandom is a place to#work with the FICTIONAL? where you can change details without consequence? i saw a fic where keith was the older sibling and shiro was the#younger once. it was a good fic. how come we can play with ages but only when the Fandom Council approves?#i guess this is a really long and clumsy way to say like. you do not own the fandom nor do you get to dictate my work. and while there#is always room for necessary criticism please also think critically before you post your criticism#anyways#rant#ask
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lightkrets312 · 3 months ago
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to the people who write summaries and wikis with thorough breakdowns of all the lore and media for a series that breaks it up into 20 different formats: you are doing fantastic work, may it remain intact and accessible well into the future, I owe you my life
to the people that decide splitting your series into 20 different media formats with critical lore in most/all of them is a good idea:
ARCHIVE YOUR SHIT IMMEDIATELY, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING.
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ratatatastic · 5 months ago
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"Funny enough I—like, if street hockey, ministicks, I always wanted to be a goalie too! Like, for some reason I always wanted to go in net. You know, probably because of [my Dad] and then, um, you know, once you get dinged a couple times and the shots get too hard you realise—then it's not so much fun after all so... Yeah, it was great he'd always—" "You probably wanted to be goalie 'cuz you're fucking crazy, man! Those guys are bananas! I actually went as a goalie in morning skate one time when I was suspended in the coast, and it was the scariest thing ever, bro. It's nothing like blocking a shot because you're literally just standing there, and these guys are shooting right at you. It's unbelievable!" "Yeah! You gotta get in the way of the stuff to save it! That's crazy! I know, and like obviously gear is like great and they don't really feel—but there is, like, that psychological thing going on where, like, you know, you wanna move out of the way 'cuz it's gonna hurt! I get—I mean, it must not hurt that much, like, 'cuz Bob's crazy, man! Bob loves taking—Well, I wouldn't say loves taking it off the head, but he doesn't hate it, like he—" "Feels good?" "You know, every once in a while—they hit him in the head and you go up and say sorry he's like, 'No, no! It's all good! I love it, I love it!!' and like, kind-of shoos you away so."
The Buzz Pod | 8.7.24 (x)
so speaking of banking pucks off bobbys head and how much he loves it flashback to that day in october of 23 where bobby was doing that for practise and managed to rope in matthew to the shenanigans to the utter confusion of everyone involved (x)(x)(x)(x)
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