#break cycles of abuse

[thepeacefulgarden]

[arriettyspin]

I don't know why Chad Charming being adopted is considered to be implausible by some. Cinderella, an orphan, choosing to adopt her firstborn to save him from a childhood like her own is the most in-character thing ever.

[sunlit-mess]

consumed by the inevitable

[little-meowyao]

Hi,

JIN LING IS NOT HOW AN ABUSED CHILD BEHAVES. He sasses at JC and he KNOWS he's all bark no bite. The instances of JC hitting JL in canon are EXCEPTIONAL. If JC hit JL regularly, he would NOT have said "Not even my uncle hits me!" at WWX. That shit STICKS. You are all stupid

[i-am-a-fan]

Ugh. I wanted redson being a parent. Do i have to do everything around here??? /j

[trappedinafantasy37]

There are multiple gods in the game that you can directly interact with and they all have ties to the narrative. You can interact with Shar via Shadowheart. You can interact with Mystra via Gale. You can interact with Myrkul via Ketheric when he takes on the avatar form. You can interact with Bhaal via Durge and in the fight with Orin. You can interact with Bane after killing Gortash and using "Speak with Dead" in which the soul you speak to is not Gortash, but Bane himself. I would include Vlaakith in this list but Vlaakith is not a god, she is a lich presenting herself as a god. And, of course, there is the Absolute which doesn't really become a god until it ascends into the Netherbrain (although that is debatable).

But, did you know that Lolth will also interact with you? As far as I am aware, Lolth is the only non-story related god in which you do have interactions with. One of them is only available if you are a Lolth-sworn drow, and the other is only available if you are a Cleric of Lolth (you do not need to be Lolth-sworn for it).

The first instance is in the goblin camp with the spiders in the pit. This does require that you are a Lolth-sworn drow and that you have the ability to speak with animals. When talking to the spiders, you will have the option to present yourself to the spiders as Lolth herself. If you fail the persuasion check, Lolth gets pissed off as she was listening to you and is not happy that you tried to present yourself as her. And she tells the spiders you are an imposter and they attack you. But if you succeed the check, Lolth doesn't do anything and the spiders will think you are Lolth. So, Lolth doesn't really have a problem with you pretending to be her. But if you are going to pretend to be her, you better do it right. If the spiders think you are Lolth, you can ask them about what's going on in the goblin camp and the spiders only talk about one thing. They immediately tell you that there is another drow in the camp who has forgotten her way and that she is forsaken. And, as I said, Lolth is here. She heard the spiders admit this. Lolth does nothing about it.

The second instance is in the Underdark with the Phalar Aluve. When you interact with the sword, you have two different checks, a Strength check and a Religion check. If you do the Strength check, you can just pull it out of the stone and be on your merry way. If you perform the Religion check, the narrator will tell you different things depending on certain conditions. If you are a Lolth-sworn drow and/or a Cleric of Lolth, the narrator will tell you that the religious rite to pull the blade from the stone is blasphemous as it pays honor to the weak. If you are of any other race and/or cleric of any other god, the narrator will tell you that the sword is of Eilistraee and the rite pays honor to the fallen. The religious rite is that you spill a little bit of your blood and the sword will rise out of the stone on its own. If you do this as a Cleric of Lolth (you don't need to be Lolth-sworn) you will feel hundreds of spiders crawl all over you as Lolth is warning you not to do shit like that ever again. Not only did you perform the religious rite of another god, you performed the religious rite of a god she hates. And she is letting you know how much she hated that.

These are the only two instances in the game that I have found in which Lolth interacts with the player but there are plenty of other moments in which Lolth could interact with you, but doesn't (such as with the Phase Spider, the baby spiders in Grymforge, Kar'niss, or the dead spider in the Gauntlet of Shar). Of these two moments where Lolth does interact with you, one of these instances is in the goblin camp, and the other is in the Underdark not too far away from the goblin camp. I don't think it is much of a coincidence that these two interactions occur in close proximity to Minthara. Almost as if Lolth has a reason to be in that area specifically to watch and monitor things, and you just so happened to be there. And the only things that compel her to interact with you is because you pissed her off. But, as long you don't piss her off, she will do nothing and she will say nothing.

When Minthara was being tortured by the Absolute, she prayed to Lolth and begged Lolth to give her the strength to fight her enemies. But Lolth does nothing and Lolth says nothing. In fact, that was the full extent of Lolth's "punishment" for Minthara, nothing. All Lolth did was not answer Minthara's prayers and not show up when Minthara needed her the most. Lolth did not torture Minthara like the Absolute did, Lolth did not turn her into a drider, nor did Lolth eat her. All she did, was nothing. And yes, Lolth is known for abandoning drow and no longer interacting with them. A drow has to do something incredibly awful in order for Lolth to just back away from them entirely. But you cannot convince me that Lolth is going to let one of her Baenre's go so easily. It's not as if Minthara has done anything truly awful either to make Lolth that mad.

According to Minthara, she herself has sinned against the Spider Queen, but it's not as if she chose to abandon Lolth, she was forced away and mind controlled into being devoted to another god. But would this make a difference to Lolth? Does it really matter if Minthara was compelled to have faith in another god besides Lolth? It isn't until Minthara is freed and feels the absence of Lolth that she chooses to no longer follow Lolth. Minthara even mentions how turning against Lolth is a big no-no in Menzoberranzan. Minthara herself at one point has hunted down and killed those who turn their backs from Lolth so she knows the same will be done to her if she were to ever return home. In fact, if you are a Lolth-sworn drow or a Cleric of Lolth, you are given unique dialogue options with Minthara to kill her because she is a traitor to Lolth and these options continue to show up until you recruit her into your party and she joins your roster. Despite all of this, Lolth does nothing. Minthara spews anti-Lolth rhetoric left and right, and Lolth does nothing. If you take Minthara to the tabernacle, she will spit on a shrine to Lolth, and Lolth does nothing.

Minthara is also able to walk through the Gauntlet of Shar, which is in the Underdark, and Lolth does nothing. Sure, you could argue that its connection to the Shadowfell and the fact that Shar is there via Shadowheart is enough to keep Lolth away. The lore of DnD does not make it quite clear what the relationship between these two goddesses are. But I am willing to bet that Lolth is smart enough not to step on Shar's toes because Shar would annihilate her. However, there is a small little section of the Gauntlet where it actually does spit you out directly into the Underdark and into Lolth's territory. Minthara can walk right out there just fine, and Lolth does nothing.

But most importantly, Minthara's default ending is her returning to the Underdark with the sole purpose of destroying House Baenre and then killing Lolth. Destroying House Baenre could lead to a chaotic and political disaster in Menzoberranzan, and Lolth does nothing. Minthara quite literally wants to kill Lolth and has intentions to do so after taking House Baenre, and Lolth. Does. Nothing!

If Minthara goes into the Underdark and destroys House Baenre, this will cause chaos and death. And the Baenre's won't be the only ones she has to destroy, but any and all allies of House Baenre in which they do have a lot. And Lolth will feed off of all the death and carnage and chaos that Minthara is about to bring to Menzoberranzan because Lolth loves chaos more than she hates traitors.

Maybe, Lolth has not abandoned her as Minthara thinks she has. Maybe, Lolth has done nothing and said nothing because Minthara has not actually upset her. Maybe, Lolth has done nothing and said nothing because Minthara is already doing everything Lolth wants her to do. And all it took, was making Minthara think that Lolth abandoned her. There was no need for Lolth to answer Minthara's prayers, because Minthara always had the strength to fight her enemies.

[mikkeneko]

I'm sure this is nothing that hasn't been said before but I really like the way that all of MXTX's books have throughlines about breaking the cycle of abuse.

It's most obvious in Scum Villain, at least once we find out more about Shen Jiu: Shen Jiu's whole story is about abuse. Qiu Jianluo abused Shen Jiu as a slave until Shen Jiu fought back and killed him, Shen Jiu revisited his abuse on his student Luo Binghe until Luo Binghe came back and killed him, Luo Binghe revisited his abuse on the entire cultivation world. Only Shen Yuan's arrival on the scene breaks the cycle; he stops the cycle of abuse dead in its tracks through his choice to be kind to Luo Binghe even knowing what he knows about the future.

In MDZS, the line of descent is shorter, but we see it twice: Yu Ziyuan to her children and her children to Jin Ling, and the Lan clan to Lan Wangji and Lan Wangji to Lan Sizhui. Yu Ziyuan took out her unhappiness on both her children, but neither of them passed that unhappiness on to Jin Ling. Lan Wangji was raised with incredible strictness, but taught Lan Sizhui -- and all of the juniors -- to be more flexible, curious and compassionate than he was raised to be. (Unknown whether the Lan juniors were ever subject to corporal punishment; we know that Lan Wangji was, but it simply isn't ever said for either of the Lan juniors, and that absence may be an answer in and of itself. Lan Jingyi at least certainly would have complained about it!)

In TGCF, once again the story is about mentor to student instead of parent to child, and it plays out over centuries instead of years, but it's still there. Jun Wu took an interest in Xie Lian specifically because Xie Lian reminded him of his own self, and then he orchestrated torments for Xie Lian specifically to push him into making the same mistakes and choices that Jun Wu made when he was Xie Lian's age. Xie Lian then goes on to take an interest in Lang Qianqiu, specifically because Lang Qianqiu reminded him of his past self. But the cycle stops there. Xie Lian doesn't revisit his traumas onto Lang Qianqiu at all. And when Lang Qianqiu undergoes his own moment of crisis, Xie Lian goes to enormous pain to ensure that he receives catharsis and closure for it, and is able to move on to be a good king and eventually ascend to divinity without redirecting his trauma onto more innocent people.

None of them are unscarred by their own circumstances, but in all cases the characters of these stories looked at the next generation and said, "I'm not doing this to them."

[ronehmke]

[90sgreggaraki]

Newitz, Annalee. "Abuse and its Pleasures: Compensatory Fantasy in the Popular Fiction of Anne Rice." Creating Safe Space: Violence and Women’s Writing (1997): 179-199. link

[sssuper368]

What do you think his favorite new jeans song is

[yardsards]

there's such an interesting extra layer to amity and her relationships (especially w luz) that gets revealed when you learn that not only is she an abuse victim herself, but she is also the child of an abusive marriage

like not only was she personally abused/neglected and taught that she doesn't deserve to have her boundaries respected and won't get positive attention unless maybe she "earns it" by being useful and overachieving, but also her main example of a romantic partnership involved one partner exploiting the other and treating him as an expendable tool

in all of her relationships (platonic, romantic, familial), amity learns to give and receive kindness, learns to respect and set boundaries, learns that the value of herself and others aren't dictated by achievements or usefulness. she's breaking the toxic patterns that her parents taught her via their treatment of her.

but with her romantic relationship with luz, not only is she learning all of the above, but she's also breaking the toxic patterns of a romantic relationship that she would have learned from watching her parents.

when she shows kindness to luz, loves luz wholeheartedly even when she makes mistakes or causes problems, respects luz's privacy and boundaries, she is treating her girlfriend in a way that opposes the way her mother treated her own husband.

when she learns that she doesn't need to be useful or else risk abandonment/punishment, she's learning that she shouldn't accept or expect to be treated by her girlfriend the same way that her father was treated by his own wife.

i just. i love stories about characters breaking cycles. and i love luz and amity's relationship so much. it's very much not the kind of relationship i'm invested in the same way i am invested in with ships between adults. but rather like, it's a relationship between these two young people who are learning to healthily navigate this kind of relationship for the first time in their lives and it's really sweet.

[l-just-want-to-see]

Let’s talk again about how Hermes tells Percy in TLO that immortals can’t change and then Rick hits us with Bob and Damasen. And then after we’ve cried over “say hello to the sun and stars for me” he hits us with an entire series about people breaking out of the narrative where the protagonist is the god of prophecy.

[heterorealism]

(via Pin page)

[nashvillethotchicken]

The fact I haven't seen that many people talk about how lestat did the exact same thing his father did to him to Claudia by forcibly removing her from the train in ep 6 is a real disservice to both Claudia and Lestat

[magmethius]

did you know? scott joseph confirmed that the emperor loves hugs :)

[x3nshit]

doesn't it suck? how pain is passed down from generations? how my pain is my mother's pain, and her mother's pain, and her mother's? it sucks.