#this game is all about the cycles of abuse and the characters choosing to break the wheel or continue the cycle

[trappedinafantasy37]

There are multiple gods in the game that you can directly interact with and they all have ties to the narrative. You can interact with Shar via Shadowheart. You can interact with Mystra via Gale. You can interact with Myrkul via Ketheric when he takes on the avatar form. You can interact with Bhaal via Durge and in the fight with Orin. You can interact with Bane after killing Gortash and using "Speak with Dead" in which the soul you speak to is not Gortash, but Bane himself. I would include Vlaakith in this list but Vlaakith is not a god, she is a lich presenting herself as a god. And, of course, there is the Absolute which doesn't really become a god until it ascends into the Netherbrain (although that is debatable).

But, did you know that Lolth will also interact with you? As far as I am aware, Lolth is the only non-story related god in which you do have interactions with. One of them is only available if you are a Lolth-sworn drow, and the other is only available if you are a Cleric of Lolth (you do not need to be Lolth-sworn for it).

The first instance is in the goblin camp with the spiders in the pit. This does require that you are a Lolth-sworn drow and that you have the ability to speak with animals. When talking to the spiders, you will have the option to present yourself to the spiders as Lolth herself. If you fail the persuasion check, Lolth gets pissed off as she was listening to you and is not happy that you tried to present yourself as her. And she tells the spiders you are an imposter and they attack you. But if you succeed the check, Lolth doesn't do anything and the spiders will think you are Lolth. So, Lolth doesn't really have a problem with you pretending to be her. But if you are going to pretend to be her, you better do it right. If the spiders think you are Lolth, you can ask them about what's going on in the goblin camp and the spiders only talk about one thing. They immediately tell you that there is another drow in the camp who has forgotten her way and that she is forsaken. And, as I said, Lolth is here. She heard the spiders admit this. Lolth does nothing about it.

The second instance is in the Underdark with the Phalar Aluve. When you interact with the sword, you have two different checks, a Strength check and a Religion check. If you do the Strength check, you can just pull it out of the stone and be on your merry way. If you perform the Religion check, the narrator will tell you different things depending on certain conditions. If you are a Lolth-sworn drow and/or a Cleric of Lolth, the narrator will tell you that the religious rite to pull the blade from the stone is blasphemous as it pays honor to the weak. If you are of any other race and/or cleric of any other god, the narrator will tell you that the sword is of Eilistraee and the rite pays honor to the fallen. The religious rite is that you spill a little bit of your blood and the sword will rise out of the stone on its own. If you do this as a Cleric of Lolth (you don't need to be Lolth-sworn) you will feel hundreds of spiders crawl all over you as Lolth is warning you not to do shit like that ever again. Not only did you perform the religious rite of another god, you performed the religious rite of a god she hates. And she is letting you know how much she hated that.

These are the only two instances in the game that I have found in which Lolth interacts with the player but there are plenty of other moments in which Lolth could interact with you, but doesn't (such as with the Phase Spider, the baby spiders in Grymforge, Kar'niss, or the dead spider in the Gauntlet of Shar). Of these two moments where Lolth does interact with you, one of these instances is in the goblin camp, and the other is in the Underdark not too far away from the goblin camp. I don't think it is much of a coincidence that these two interactions occur in close proximity to Minthara. Almost as if Lolth has a reason to be in that area specifically to watch and monitor things, and you just so happened to be there. And the only things that compel her to interact with you is because you pissed her off. But, as long you don't piss her off, she will do nothing and she will say nothing.

When Minthara was being tortured by the Absolute, she prayed to Lolth and begged Lolth to give her the strength to fight her enemies. But Lolth does nothing and Lolth says nothing. In fact, that was the full extent of Lolth's "punishment" for Minthara, nothing. All Lolth did was not answer Minthara's prayers and not show up when Minthara needed her the most. Lolth did not torture Minthara like the Absolute did, Lolth did not turn her into a drider, nor did Lolth eat her. All she did, was nothing. And yes, Lolth is known for abandoning drow and no longer interacting with them. A drow has to do something incredibly awful in order for Lolth to just back away from them entirely. But you cannot convince me that Lolth is going to let one of her Baenre's go so easily. It's not as if Minthara has done anything truly awful either to make Lolth that mad.

According to Minthara, she herself has sinned against the Spider Queen, but it's not as if she chose to abandon Lolth, she was forced away and mind controlled into being devoted to another god. But would this make a difference to Lolth? Does it really matter if Minthara was compelled to have faith in another god besides Lolth? It isn't until Minthara is freed and feels the absence of Lolth that she chooses to no longer follow Lolth. Minthara even mentions how turning against Lolth is a big no-no in Menzoberranzan. Minthara herself at one point has hunted down and killed those who turn their backs from Lolth so she knows the same will be done to her if she were to ever return home. In fact, if you are a Lolth-sworn drow or a Cleric of Lolth, you are given unique dialogue options with Minthara to kill her because she is a traitor to Lolth and these options continue to show up until you recruit her into your party and she joins your roster. Despite all of this, Lolth does nothing. Minthara spews anti-Lolth rhetoric left and right, and Lolth does nothing. If you take Minthara to the tabernacle, she will spit on a shrine to Lolth, and Lolth does nothing.

Minthara is also able to walk through the Gauntlet of Shar, which is in the Underdark, and Lolth does nothing. Sure, you could argue that its connection to the Shadowfell and the fact that Shar is there via Shadowheart is enough to keep Lolth away. The lore of DnD does not make it quite clear what the relationship between these two goddesses are. But I am willing to bet that Lolth is smart enough not to step on Shar's toes because Shar would annihilate her. However, there is a small little section of the Gauntlet where it actually does spit you out directly into the Underdark and into Lolth's territory. Minthara can walk right out there just fine, and Lolth does nothing.

But most importantly, Minthara's default ending is her returning to the Underdark with the sole purpose of destroying House Baenre and then killing Lolth. Destroying House Baenre could lead to a chaotic and political disaster in Menzoberranzan, and Lolth does nothing. Minthara quite literally wants to kill Lolth and has intentions to do so after taking House Baenre, and Lolth. Does. Nothing!

If Minthara goes into the Underdark and destroys House Baenre, this will cause chaos and death. And the Baenre's won't be the only ones she has to destroy, but any and all allies of House Baenre in which they do have a lot. And Lolth will feed off of all the death and carnage and chaos that Minthara is about to bring to Menzoberranzan because Lolth loves chaos more than she hates traitors.

Maybe, Lolth has not abandoned her as Minthara thinks she has. Maybe, Lolth has done nothing and said nothing because Minthara has not actually upset her. Maybe, Lolth has done nothing and said nothing because Minthara is already doing everything Lolth wants her to do. And all it took, was making Minthara think that Lolth abandoned her. There was no need for Lolth to answer Minthara's prayers, because Minthara always had the strength to fight her enemies.

[glitteryinknotes]

There is a level of deep, bitterly poetic and cruel irony in Astarion's death and his eventual fate as a vampire spawn. Laughable, even. Lamentable.

Where do I even begin. I once posted here my thoughts on who Astarion was before Cazador took him; and all my thoughts were based on what we can assume to be canon from scraps on information in - game and interviews with Neil. That Astarion Ancunin who was laid into the ground at Baldur's Gate cementary was a corrupt magistrate, a shining example of power abuse, indulgence, hedony, existence in privilege without any service to the world around.

We also know for a fact that Astarion is not a good person in a moral sense. Again, Neil Newbon himself talked about it. He has capability to grow, mature, open himself up, soak in the positive influence and feel for others, but he never will be the default upstanding type. That is simply not at his core.

This is why (I am aware we're talking a fictional character, headcanon is free to all in whichever way they think it suits and pleases them) I cannot for the world believe in all the fanfiction based on the notion of the tragic, tortured soul unjustly attacked and turned into a vampire, because to me - it misses the entire depth and essence of Astarion's personality and arc. He was not a "worthy" persona before Cazador; in fact, the beating he got from the Gur was well - deserved and the near - death experience... Probably so as well. Maybe if anything, this would open his eyes and force him to reflect at least a bit on his choices in the position he was occupying. (But given that he mentions begging Cazador to turn him to be able to take revenge, I highly doubt that.) So yeah... The man got what was coming to him. He deserved it.

But what he got in the end once Cazador allowed him to drink his blood and had him in his hold? Two hundred years of misery and abuse beyond description, being completely stripped of any identity and personhood? No one deserves that. Such fate should not be thrust upon anyone. Ever.

It is the cruellest, most wicked twist of fate that it took that kind of ordeal to change a corrupt little elf's view of the world and force him to even acknowledge the existence of evil deeds and abuse of power - something I am quite sure he never gave any thought to before. It took being transformed into an utterly helpless victim to make him truly see that there is good and bad and perpetuating the bad leads to pain and misery for the innocents (and you can never be sure if not for you as well), and only then, at his most pathetic, most vulnerable, after centuries of torment, it took meeting, trusting, admiring, being grateful to, befriending / loving and being influenced by a genuinely good and kind person (probably the exact opposite of who he was before) to shake and cause some shift in his inner moral compass, or rather the way he was choosing to use it. The full circle, a poignant, unwilling journey from the one abusing power, to the enslaved puppet of someone with considerably more power abusing it in the most inhuman ways possible, and this time to his own woe, to the one person able to break the abusive cycle given the right influence.

Isn't that simply poetic in the most sickly sense? A tragicomedy, if you will.

Forget about Astarion Ancunin. The grave was good for lovemaking and sharing an important moment, but whoever was laid there was not anyone worthy of your time (just like "Ascended Astarion" )The one who stands by your side now is. Your Astarion. The new Astarion, the same "lovable rogue" with a taste for theatrics, drama, debauchery, beauty, murder mayhem and loose morality, but - a better person all the same.

[follow up post here

https://www.tumblr.com/glitteryinknotes/733162725841289216/a-little-follow-up-to-my-previous-post?source=share]

[stillness138]

So Jinzee's video about the trailer brought me to a realization, it's kinda neat that Ciri has an association with the cat school in the light of this new direction.

Everyone is still screaming crying throwing up that Ciri having undergone the grasses is way too lore breaking but here's the counter argument again; her entire plot in the books is about her and only her getting to decide what to do with her life and with her body.

And not to get derailed too much but diverging from what Sapek or even cdpr themselves said before doesn't have to be a bad thing. Think about Thronebreaker - it's a great adaptation of Baptism despite not literally having the same storyline or the same characters because it's ultimately about the same things, a perilous journey to save what you care about the most, familial relationships and a family-like unit brought together by circumstance, how much war sucks. I think this new game is going to be about autonomy, something looming over Ciri's entire book arc. And again, it's okay to "break lore" in service of a good, meaningful story that still carries the spirit of what Sapek was trying to say; the witcher books certainly aren't about "adult women can't be turned into witchers", they are about, among other things, family, abuse, and making choices.

Jinzee in her video proposes that perhaps the lynx school is going to be a group of people who choose whether to undergo (likely altered/adjusted, re: the future potential of Uma's uncursing) mutations and that made me think about Gezras and the story of the cat school in gwent. Because it doesn't appear in the ttrpg it seems it was written specifically for gwent by the mysterious lorekeeper, so it is cdpr approved at least. I talked about Gezras quite a bit already (here, under Thaler) and concluded that his and the cat school's story is beside revenge about reclaiming the trial as something that gives mistreated people means to protect themselves. Autonomy and even ability to choose. It's not perfect in the cats' case, not at all, these are back alley mutations that leave them fucked up forever, but the concept is not unheard of.

I don't think Ciri would have forced anyone into it. The lack of much of a choice (Geralt does talk about choice being a factor in the trial but is it a real one when you're a literal child given up by your caretakers) is what makes it an abuse cycle and she's had enough experience with abuse - and with falling into a spiral where she becomes a perpetrator - to avoid doing it again (she also has an on-page mini arc of getting out of that spiral, with Vysogota, but it would be interesting if the game explored her history, especially the years spent in the Arthurian world). Maybe her mutation will be a one-off like i initially thought, but if not, choice is a word already attached to her by the game director and indirectly by the trailer itself. That girl's autonomy is a point in it too. She believes she has to sacrifice herself but only because she's been told as much by people around her. In that sense it's personal for Ciri, and probably why it's the plot of her first trailer to begin with.

And i guess the best closing words i can muster is that it also is just that, a first trailer - we don't know the plot of the game and can only speculate what it's going to be about and how it's going to explain the trial and even the medallion for that matter. Not to have expectations too high because cdpr is definitely prone to comically wasting their potential, but so far it's really not looking bad. The ground for good storytelling and even apt political commentary is there, we will have to wait to see if they walk it.

[adultish-momma]

Rose Thorns

Fighting monsters hits a lot different when the monster wears a face you know.

Funny how hard it is to break the cycle.

(Or the fic about Riddle's Overblot and the aftermath of that fight)

Warings!: gore, blood, violence, injury, near death experiences, parental abuse, controlling parental figure.

A/N: I found most of this draft in my phone notes app, so here I am bringing it to light. This one is a bit darker, but it's a scene I've had visualized for years now and needed to finally put down in writing. Please mind the trigger warnings. Again, this is a fic specifically about Riddle's Overblot and his Trauma Dump(tm) chapter, so if any of those scenes bother you in the offical game, do yourself a favor and skip this one.

And as always, if you think I've missed a warning, please let me know. Thank you!

They say that when you're knocking on death's door, the world looses its colors. Life quite literally seems to bleed out of everything you can see, leaving a grayscale mockery in its wake. There's probably a scientific reason for it, something to do with "primary functions". Some people wax poetic about the experience, weaving romantic words to paint a bleak moment with some measure of sense. There's lots of different interpretations of what goes on behind this phenomenon, this almost universal experience.

The rose garden had fallen into an ashy wasteland, grays and whites and blacks interrupted only by splashes of crimson red. Riddle's red hair, his glowing red eye, and the roses dripping with a suspicious red liquid. (The stench of copper and decay did little to disguise what that liquid could be). Even the Heartslabyul students that stayed behind to help knock some sense into their wayward leader were slowly draining of color, the looming shadow of the ink monster steadily darkening their bright visages.

Yuu wondered if the world looking so gray was new to Riddle, or if this is how his black and white upbringing had always altered his perception of the way things were.

The prefect wasn't supposed to be here. Crowley had personally escorted (read: dragged) them out in the initial wave of evacuation from the Heartslabyul dimension. But with so much panic going on, it was easy to slip back through the mirror. Easy to fight upstream through the crowd to return to the fight. All they had to think about was who was left behind, and suddenly returning to fight an impossible fight was an easy decision.

They thought of Trey and Cater, fighting for the life of their friend, two upperclassmen who accepted this random magicless student and monstrous feline (no matter what their motives might have been). They thought of Ace, Deuce, and Grim, facing yet another monster, this time with a face they recognized, with a face they respected. They thought of Riddle, a tyrant born from only knowing abusive love, angry and hurting and dying.

Choosing to come back and help was easy. What was hard was trying to figure out how to help.

The monster behind the House Warden roared, solidifying its inky shape the longer it fed on Riddle's magic. It was almost as if the giant caricature of the Queen of Hearts was using Riddle Rosehearts as a conduit for its own power. Wait... magical conduit... your magestone completely tainted with blot...

Holy shit his magestone.

The Ramshackle Prefect frantically searched the Overblotted form of the Heartslabyul Dorm Leader with their eyes, hoping to easily spot the stone. No such luck. They turned their gaze to their friends, hoping to let somebody know this battle changing, tide turing information. That's when they saw him.

Grim, lying haphazardly on the edge of the battlefield. Rosehearts must have flung him. His blue flames were flickering, small tendrils of blue slowly turning gray. He looked so unlike the lively character they've been rooming with the past week, now he looked small, vulnerable, fragile.

The flame in one of Grim's ears snuffs out.

They need to act. Now.

There's no thought behind Yuu's next move, not really, there's no time. People are going to die. And if Riddle Rosehearts lives to see tomorrow, he's going to live with being a murderer if they don't do something right exactly the fuck now.

Riddle had been defending himself from the mages in the garden. You know, the people who posed an actual threat to him. He never even registed the prefect on the sidelines. The red-head was not expecting to get physically tackled from his blindside.

Yuu is desperately trying to pin the very dangerous mage beneath them while simultaneously searching for his magestone. Ink coils around the boy, tightly constricting around his ribcage. Almost like a corset. And something pulses and glows just beneath the faux corset. They have their fingers reaching, pushing past all that insidious black and-

A scream rips from Yuu's throat, pain searing through their left thigh, and the previously grayscale world implodes with color.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yuu has been having some strange dreams ever since they've arrived in Twisted Wonderland, but this one has to take the cake.

They watch as if through a sepia-tinted screen Riddle Rosehearts grow up under his mother's watchful eye. They see the moment he meets Trey and Chenya. It's almost like a movie, it even sounds as if Riddle is narrating his tragic backstory.

Something in them sparks as Riddle's mother berates him for eating that strawberry tart. Maybe it's just her tone, or the look on Riddle's face, or heck maybe it has something to do with their own shrouded past in their old world, but they can't just passively watch anymore.

"Shut up!" The words echo in the dreamspace, loud and commanding. Both mother and son pause, bewilderment taking over their faces. The voice of the Riddle they know now even quiets, and as the prefect steps in front of the young boy, everything in the memory comes to a standstill.

The Ramshackle Prefect begins arguing with Dr. Rosehearts, snarling and ferocious in their pursuit to protect the young Riddle of this realm. And the real Riddle? He's watching this all. He's watching how Yuu keeps physically blocking his mother from coming any nearer to his younger self. He's watching as the magicless student that publically humiliated him earlier that week, humilitaed him because they were able to keep their cool when he was not, he watches as they lose their composure. He hears them when they say:

"Rules are meant to keep people safe! But this? This is about control and abuse. It doesn't help Riddle, all it does is turn you into a monster."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Riddle wakes up with a start, eyes flying open and darting, hands twitching like he's looking for something.

"Riddle!!" Trey appears in his line of sight, breathless and shaking but looking relieved. Cater's bright orange hair also pops into view, but this upperclassman still looks stressed, looking between his House Warden and something over Trey's shoulder.

"Your back," Trey says, pressing hands against the sophmore's body to make sure he was, in fact, alright. "We thought you might never wake up."

"Wha-"

"Hench-human come on! This isn't funny anymore!"

"Shit this is so much blood, fuck my jacket's soaked through."

"Move over, we have to apply pressure to both ends of the wound."

"No shit Juice, but there's a fucking hole through their leg -"

"WAKE UP YUU! Please, please, please wake up"

Riddle doesn't want to look, doesn't want to see the carnage. He still sees them as they were in his dream-memory, strong and sturdy, able to withstand his biggest fear without a second thought.

But this is Yuu, his Yuu. So he turns around, because he needs to see them with his own eyes.

What he sees makes him want to vomit.

Ace and Deuce are crouched by the prefect's legs, the boys' jackets wrapped tight around Yuu's right leg. Jackets that are now more red than white. Grim is frantically pawing at Yuu's face, tears soaking into his fur. And Yuu?

Yuu is pale, paler than they've ever been. Lips turning blue. Their chest is expanding, thank the Seven, but just barely, and not as often as it should be. And shattered on the ground around them, some shards still lodged in their closed fist, is Riddle's black magestone.

Riddle watches, numb to everything around him. Eyes fixed on his broken magestone. He doesn't notice Trey trying to talk to him, doesn't register Ace screaming at him, he only comes back to when Cater loads Yuu up on his broom and takes off.

Riddle picks up on of the shards left behind, black, nasty, angry magic still faintly pulsing from the stone. Magic that almost killed him today. Anger that has been killing him his whole life.

Yuu saved him today, in more ways than one.

Riddle pockets the shard, placing it in his breast pocket, right above his still aching heart. A reminder of their sacrifice. A reminder to earn their sacrifice when they wake up.

And a reminder to look into all those Heartslabyul rules and maybe, just maybe, update them. Afterall, rules are there to keep those he loves safe.

[bananasfosterparent]

@thewillowbends Hope it's okay I moved to text post, it seemed like a better idea.

First, let me be clear: People can write whatever they want and I'm not saying they can't or shouldn't.

----

"If Tav is happily evil, then we’re back to the issue of limits in the narrative functionality beyond shorter works."

If Tav HAS to be a meek, regretful abuse victim in order for a story to be lengthy and meaningful, then that is 100% a skill and creativity issue of the writer. Either them not having the ability to see the story from another perspective, or them not having the creativity level to consider other canon-friendly manifestations of the Evil Tav x Asc Astarion relationship. Those "limits" you speak of are only limits if you allow them to be and don't let yourself grow as a writer.

"As it is, game is pretty blunt about how the story of spawn Tav ends"

The game is not blunt at all. The game gives us NO ending to that. It's up to the player. The closest we have to an idea of an ending for "spawn" Tav, is this datamined title card:

(read image description for transcription)

While this was cut from the official release of the game (like all the epilogue content), it still shows what Larian had/has in mind for the direction of the Asc ending. And it's got no hints about abuse.

Astarion tells you as much if you break up with him — “I would’ve ruined your love, used your trust.”

This is called metagaming. BG3 is not like a tv show where all the little dots connect and line up. BG3 is a "choose your own adventure" novel in video game form. It works just the same. So any choices or options you DO NOT select are NOT TRUE for your character in that playthrough. So nothing Spawn Astarion says in that ending matters in regards to a playthrough with the Ascended ending. Nothing Asc Astarion says matters in regards to a playthrough with the Spawn ending. In BOTH endings, he thanks Tav genuinely, fully appreciates the choice, is glad the opposite choice wasn't made, and wants Tav to choose what their next adventure will be. Both endings have to be worthwhile and feel satisfying for the player, and the best way to do that is to have Astarion genuinely appreciate what Tav has done, in BOTH endings. And he does.

"it’s a story about cycles and the destruction of life. It’s telling you what Astarion will become because Cazador used to be in his position."

It's telling who Cazedor was and his story. That doesn't mean Astarion is doomed to repeat it. Or that a specific ending IS him repeating it. There is no warning of such. It CAN go that way, but nothing in-game says it has to. Because breaking "the cycle" isn't one specific thing. And he breaks cycles in BOTH endings.

Astarion's story is about corruption and choosing to either become more corrupt (than he already is) or try to live by the rules of society and just accept how things are. In the Spawn ending he talks about the "cycle of power", meaning the cycle of vampire culture that thrives on a pyramid of power. He is free of that headache and appreciates that. As to the quote you mention, Astarion is speculating about ascension. He has no idea what would have actually happened, he can only guess. He is an opportunistic optimist so he'd more likely see the path he couldn't take as one he shouldn't have anyway. And having him say that in-game for that ending, makes that ending feel worth it for the player.

In the Asc ending, he breaks the cycles of loneliness, living in darkness, selfishness, hunger, and wants to treat his own spawn better than Cazedor ever did. Astarion hates the word spawn and chooses to call his future ones his "children" instead. He loves the sun, it's symbolic for him. Yet, he is fully willing, without hesitation, to give up something he loves so much, so that his "children" can thrive in a world that is shrouded in fog. He also takes on a consort (vampire bride/groom) and wants to share that power, something Cazedor did not do (as far as we know).

You can break away from Larian’s story, certainly, but a lot of fanfic writers are trying to stick to what was extant within the media itself. At some point, if you pull too far away from it, you’re just writing an original story, and the issue most writers then run into is…why not turn it fully original and publish it then?

Here's the problem with this: Larian's story IS BOTH endings. There is no metaphorical build up in the game that sets up *only* the Spawn ending as his "real" or "true" ending. It's a metaphorical build up that can have TWO different solutions. One being reject the power and accept life as it is. The other being usurp power and rewrite the rules. Ascension is never shown to be a truly evil or bad thing. The worst part of it is sacrificing the 7000 spawn. But if Tav/Durge rationalizes this, there are no real negatives. The only negatives may be if one does not vibe with his confidence boost and prefers him more docile. The whole last statement you've made and way of thinking makes it seem like his Spawn ending is the real one and his Ascended ending is just some "fun and sexy" alternative but invalid thing you can do.

His story arc is BOTH endings. They are both just as bad and as good as the other, it's just a matter of what works for your Tav/Durge and for you as the player. He does not have ONE TRUE ENDING. You choose the lesser of two evils. Which one is "lesser" depends entirely on the player and Tav/Durge as individuals.

If ANYTHING, writing Ascended Astarion as an abusive, uncaring, unloving monster is just writing an original story and not sticking to what is within the game itself. Not the other way around.

Also, as a last comment... a fanfiction does not have to be a 70 chapter epic. It can be 1-3 chapters and be a complete work. Or just one chapter. Or a few paragraphs. But Tav and Astarion being happily evil together shouldn't be a reason you can't write a lengthy and fleshed out story. That's just lack of creativity. Spawn ending fans outnumber Asc ending fans, and most Spawn fans have a negative view of Asc Astarion. So that's more likely the reason why we never see many happily evil Tav x Astarion fics.

[aphrodite-killed-me]

I saw a post about this and can’t find it so I’m giving my 2 cents (as someone who hasn’t read or watched the movies in a while)

I saw someone say people don’t like Gale because he’s violent and that Peeta isn’t be he’s also a part of the upper class area so he isn’t violent for that reason and stuff (then said something about classism)

My own thoughts is I don’t like Gale because he’s kinda selfish. NOW HEAR ME OUT I mean he’s selfish in how he kinda only cares about his own feelings. His actions aren’t selfish but the way he treats Katniss is. He doesn’t take moment to think about how she feels after the games, he’s mad she survived through the romance and even during the war he constantly brought it up. He wanted her to choose between him and Peeta while actively risking their lives. He saw Peeta obviously being tortured and said how he was a coward and was pathetic.

Also Peeta isn’t necessarily “non violent” because of where he was raised. We see a lot of characters who are from upper class areas be violent, and we can even assume that Peeta could be violent with the cycle of abuse from his mother (which he breaks). But Peeta himself isn’t a violent or selfish person, that’s just not who he as a person is.

I don’t dislike Gale because he’s violent. I think it’s sad he’s violent, but it makes a lot of sense. People who are oppressed and have seen the routine devastation of everything they love are easier to persuade into extremists. It happens all the time. It is still currently happening. I don’t even dislike Gale cause he’s hard headed or cause he killed Prim (though that does sting)

I dislike Gale because he disregards Katniss’s feelings, what she has been through, which is a stark contrast to Peeta

[cynthiadasorceress]

Little Nightmares Character Analysis

!Trigger warning for generational trauma/abuse!

Spoilers for the endings of the first and second games

One thing I find interesting about the relationship between Six and the Lady is how it compares to Mono and the Thin Man's relationship.

To me, Mono and the Thin Man are a metaphor for generational trauma. A child (Mono) is hurt by somebody, usually a parent or guardian (Thin Man), and tries to free themself from the situation. In the case of Mono, it's him trying to get out of the Pale City. Unfortunately, despite their efforts, the child, for whatever reason, grows up to be just like the person who hurt them (Mono growing up to become the Thin Man), perpetuating the cycle of abuse.

Six and the Lady, depending on how you interpret them, can also be a metaphor for generational trauma, but now the abused (Six) breaks the cycle (leaving the Maw). It's safe to assume that in most cases, the previous Lady of the Maw will raise the next Lady to take the job of running the Maw, thus continuing the cycle of trauma and passing it down to the next generation. Though the situation is different with the current Lady and Six, it still ends with Six choosing to stray away from the path that all the others before her chose to walk down. She chose to end the cycle.

Both situations are representations of how trauma and abuse are passed down from generation to generation, but one ends with the cycle continuing on, while the other ends with somebody finally putting a stop to it all.

[seasaltmemories]

The Question of Dark Aono's Role

I don't want to make any definitive statements towards Dark Aono's role in the story on either a literal or metaphorical level. It feels like there is still a lot Shiina is holding back about him; however, I feel like for all the terrible horrors he could represent, at this it is pretty clear Dark Aono is not just a simple abuse allegory

Like I get why it might appear that way early in the story, we don't actually know Aono that well, and neither does Yuri, and stories of men turning "into completely different ppl" once locked into a relationship do exist, what Aono does with his limited agency speaks in direct opposition to that. When he feels he crossed a line, he isolates himself from Yuri and tries to stay away from her. In the cannibalism dream sequence he begs Yuri to run away from him even when she is determined to feed herself. Much of his greatest conflict is about being stuck in this monstrous role and trying to self-sabotage himself.

And like perhaps this could be a seen as a messy representation of the honeymoon phase of abuse, where apologies are made and the abuser is extra affectionate to make up for it, but I lean away from that bc we have much better representations of that in the familial stages. Midori and Hitomi both tend to follow up the worst of their wrong-doings with explicit apologies and excess affection, sometimes immediately after the incident. The Aono to Dark Aono cycling doesn't hit nearly the same beats, even when taking into account the supernatural elements.

While I don't want to lock myself into one interpretation before the story is finished, I always come back to the stairwell incident. Where Dark Aono is shocked in Aono when Yuri informs him he sounds like Midori for saying exactly what his Mother used to tell him. I think of how when he regains control, it is usually followed by shame and self-loathing, sometimes simply saying that his behavior was "weird' or outright calling himself a conman.

It is such a tricky situation bc to me Dark Aono has distinctive quirks and differences from our Aono in attitude/speech/everything, even when both characters try and manipulate others, they do it in very different ways. Yet for as drastic as the switch can be, he is never so clearly an alternate personality or entity taking over. Aono has stated outright that the further in the story he goes, the more aware he grows during this shifts, and many take place specifically due to Aono's emotional state rather than any outside taboo breaking. Dark Aono is both something alien, something intrusive, yet also a painfully familiar thing that clearly originates in himself

In the end I am reminded much more of how the aftereffects of abuse haunt even relationships formed years after escaping the situation. Aono was taught love is choosing one ultimate idol and doesn't realize how fucked up that is until he finds himself parroting the same words back to Yuri. Aono reverts to a child-like state and tries to prove both to others and to himself he is worthy of love when he realized he fucked up in some way. He excuses all his self-destructive self isolating coping mechanisms as necessary even while calling out those same traits in others

But as man-painy and gross the premise of "guy keeps hurting his gf even though he doesn;t want to bc mommy issues and that makes him sad" could be, what makes Shiina's writing compelling is she makes it clear that the one suffering the most here in the present is Yuri. Having sympathy for Aono doesn't make her situation any less worse, and from where volume 10 ends off, there are things Aono needs to answer for that can't be explained away by spooky occult shenanigans. I feel like Aono's ultimate role as either ally or antagonist will be determined by his choices in the end, no matter how many or few he has. There haven't been any easy answers in the story and so I don't except to suddenly discover them this late in the game. But regardless of how it plays out I can't help but already praise her for putting such an interesting and unpredictable spin on "dark alter egos" in a genre that can be overstuffed with them.

[avelera]

Authority and the Urge: Morality and Redemption in Baldur's Gate 3

Theme 1: Domination vs. Freedom as an Alternative Moral Axis to Evil vs. Good

One thing that makes Baldur's Gate such a pleasure to play is that the writing team had such a clear understanding of their themes. Good and evil are not the clean-cut alignments of the D&D world. Rather, they reimagined good vs. evil along more subtle lines of domination and control vs. personal freedom and healing. For the most part, they are remarkably consistent without being preachy, which is no mean feat. Nor do they say you can't dabble in the morally ambiguous, indeed, all the Companions have dabbled in the morally gray and you are invited to draw your own line as to what behavior you find acceptable for them. Even Wyll and Karlach, the most morally upstanding, have made deals with devils for the greater good, and been press-ganged against their will into fighting for an evil tyrant. You are given the choice to say there is no redemption for even these unwilling moments of moral impurity, if you so choose. You can reject Gale for not telling you about the Orb immediately. You can kill Astarion for being a vampire, which isn't his fault. You can criticize and reject Shadowheart for her Shar worship and thus never learn the full extent of how much it was not her choice to join in the first place. You can also urge companions like Gale, Astarion, and Shadowheart to give in to their worst instincts and become true monsters, which brings me to the next important theme.

Theme 2: What is the Worth of a Single Life?

When speaking of themes in BG3, another major one is the power of one person to sway the path of others in their lives towards good or evil. One hand extended in friendship can draw Astarion back from a painful and self-destructive existence, the pursuit of power to insulate him from pain and harm that ultimately would lead him to perpetuate the cycle of abuse he suffered under. There are clear implications of how much the Companions life is changed by their encounter with the player character, in a really touching dynamic about the importance of one life to another, which also works as a game mechanic, imbuing your interactions as a player character with the satisfying power fantasy of being able to have social impact on your Companions as friends, loved ones, or (in an evil run) victims of your sadism. You can make or break them.

Which brings me, finally, to the Dark Urge. It's clear to my eyes that the Dark Urge was originally planned as The Custom Character path. What I imagine happened next, however, is that they realized that there were hard story beats in the Dark Urge's narrative, certain deaths for example, which would be supremely limiting and unsatisfying for many players, who would chafe against the lack of choice.

The Dark Urge is a fantastic novel character, since characters in a novel don't have to do what the reader would do, but video games with their interactive nature usually require a bit more freedom of choice for players to be satisfying. Obviously there are exceptions to this rule, but in general it's very challenging and rarely attempted in video games to put the player-controlled character into a situation where the player loses agency, where the character dies without player freedom to prevent it, makes choices contrary to what the player character would do in a game that otherwise offers choice, or that simply kills the player character without the option to avoid that fate. It can be done but it's very very tough, some of the biggest complaints leveled at RPGs like BG3 or Dragon Age games is when the narrative takes choice away or makes the character make choices, unavoidably, that players would not make or would fight to avoid if they could. They are often the center of the greatest fandom ire. So that's why I think the OC Tav with the blank backstory was created, for those who chafed at the lovely but restrictive narrative arc of the Dark Urge.

Mirrors of Morality: The Dark Urge's Redemption

I mention that I think the Dark Urge is fundamental to the core design of the game because their narrative path so nicely mirrors the other Companions. A blank-slate Tav is wonderful to work with, and very freeing, but you are left with the slightly hollow feeling of not having nearly the level of trauma or issues to work through that the Companions do. Your character has no past and few opportunities to form a coherent narrative that precedes the events of the tadpoling the way the others do. From a gameplay perspective this is of course nearly impossible to do otherwise, they can't anticipate every RP headcanon a player might run, but they can offer one with the Dark Urge who has the same sort of deep dichotomy and divide in their backstory that the others have.

That said, I completed an Evil Dark Urge run before I completed a good one, despite rolling two attempts at a good Dark Urge before stumbling onto an Evil Dark Urge that worked for me (an older drow matriarch, for those curious).

The reason I struggled was because I couldn't imagine a Good Dark Urge with agency in their prior life. My evil Dark Urge was a willing partner of Gortash and Thorm. One reason I made her older was because I imagined her as mature, worldly, cruel, sadistic, and completely on board with the plot. The amnesia was only a brief interruption to her plans, a distraction. Once she recalled enough of her life and previous goals to piece together her part in the Dead Three plot, she went right back into enacting it and, in the end, won, becoming the unquestioning ruler of a world of thralls in Bhaal's name. If anything, the dialogue options that implied that Bhaal was the one controlling her, or that she had done anything but make her own choices were almost insulting. This woman knew what she was doing, beginning to end, with the amnesia as only a minor interruption.

But this interpretation of the Dark Urge was based on the letter we find in the Dark Urge's point of view, where again, they show no unwillingness to be an agent of the Dead Three plot. Gortash's warm welcome further cemented the view in my mind: the Dark Urge knew what they were doing and was a willing evil participant.

So how, I wondered, can anyone justify a Good Dark Urge? Not saying it can't be done, but how?

The implications I found troubling at first were that anyone who was evil would become good if they were simply removed from their environment. It had a ring of a sort of natural innocence, a sort of "noble savage" worldview that all of us would tilt towards good if our minds were wiped clean. Optimistic in some ways, very dangerous in its implications in others. Then I realized it wasn't a statement. It was a question.

Theme 3: Nature vs. Nurture

I then realized that nature vs. nurture is actually everywhere in BG3 side plots. Another reinforcement of the fact the Dark Urge storyline is baked into the DNA of the story. You have the Githyanki egg plot, Baelen's memory loss making him a good but absentminded person (which can be undone if you give him noblestalk, when he reverts back to the cruel man he was), heck, even the owlbear cub can be given a loving home where he thrives. You are shown, over and over again, stories where you can choose and contribute to and ponder whether or not evil is a product of nature or nurture, in a way that's incredibly relevant to pondering the Dark Urge's path forward under amnesia. Was this Bhaalspawn evil by nature or by choice? It's very juicy stuff.

Furthermore: all of the companions actually offer ways to rationalize the Dark Urge and choose a path forward for them to fall back into evil or move forward into good. This is because the writers of BG3 are actually superb at thematic mirroring. Each Companion can be a mirror for one way to understand the Dark Urge, how they were evil in the past, and how they could choose to change.

Shadowheart: Indoctrinated into the cult of a cruel god from childhood, you grew up in a world where the only moral compass you had was utterly controlled by those around you. You never knew a different world than the cult of Shar/Bhaal. Now with your memory wiped, you have the option to listen to the voice deep down that says the cruelty demanded of you by the little you can remember feels wrong or even follow the good examples of your newfound Companions to see a different way to live. Maybe you always had goodness in you deep down, but the society you knew channeled you towards evil that you're only now free of, albeit with a past full of holes you're trying to fill in again.

Karlach: Maybe you were never a truly willing participant in the Bhaal cult. Incredibly skilled at killing, yes. Perhaps a bit morally flexible to get involved with figures like Gortash. But ultimately, when you were whisked out of the bloody war and world that you were immersed in by circumstance, you saw your chance to get your old life back from before the Bhaal cult and you took it. Baldur's Gate is your home. People like Karlach are the ones hurt by the actions of the Dead Three Plot that you might never have put a face to if you'd never been taken from that world. Now that you see the harm caused, now that you're free, you can finaly become your own person again after being a foot soldier for evil forces.

Lae'zel: You were a true believer in Bhaal's cult. You grew up worshipping your evil god. It's the only life you knew and the only life that gave you meaning. You were a willing participant but before now, you'd never known any other life. However, through exposure to other people, other cultures, other ways of life, you're beginning to see that there are ways to live outside your narrow life of indoctrination in violence. The final blow comes to this worldview when you learn that your beloved god is completely fine with your destruction. They allowed Orin to take your place. Bhaal/Vlaakith would see you destroy and enslave the world for their own glory and be perfectly happy to destroy you at the end of all your hard, devoted work. You did not sin against Bhaal by rebelling against the full horror of his cruelty and negligence towards you, rather, Bhaal has sinned against you.

Gale: You were the beloved Chosen of Bhaal. Coddled, cradled, told you were special and perfect and wonderful. Of course you happily participated in the Dead Three plot, you lived a charmed life as the elevated darling of your deity. But then something went wrong. You were cast out. You've awoken lesser than you were, your body betrays you, you've lost knowledge that once made you walk among mortals as a near-godly figure. And it seems like Bhaal/Mystra doesn't care, as you wander the wilderness. You're hurt. Betrayed. Tadpoled. Orin has taken your place so easily, just as Gale was cast aside so easily. You don't know what you did wrong. You're angry. Resentful. How dare Mystra/Bhaal cast you aside so easily? They offer you a solution to get back into their good graces which require a complete denial, a complete destruction of yourself - becoming Bhaal's chosen once more or blowing yourself up for redemption. Ultimately, the way forward is in choosing yourself and relying on your own cleverness, rather than being seduced back into their circle of influence.

Astarion: Bhaal was a cruel master to you who controlled your every move. That doesn't mean you were a nice person though, or you didn't enjoy murder. But now you are finally free of Bhaal/Cazador's immediate reach. They cannot fulfill their evil plot without you. You can destroy them now, undermine them, or replace them - fulfill the Dead Three plot in your own name. Or you can take this chance once finally outside their grasp to rediscover who you really are, what you want, all the while your hungers drive you towards continuing to take the lives of others. But perhaps the help of new friends can help you deny these urges and steer you towards being a new person. What that new, better person is, what they even look like, is unclear to you, you've never really had positive influences. But maybe you can find it together.

Wyll: You lived your own life before you ended up in Bhaal's plot, as Bhaal's chosen. But that life was stolen. Now, through circumstances beyond your control, you have disappointed your father. Is there a way to escape the reach of Bhaal's control, Bhaal's pact? Will you sacrifice your soul to redeem yourself in the eyes of your father?

Honorable Mention - Minthara: Tadpoled and controlled by the Absolute, you are now set on throwing down all old gods that once thought to control you. Maybe you'll take over the Dead Three plot in your own name. Maybe you'll just take pleasure in tearing it down for your own reasons. Either way, your gods have sinned against you, the cult of the Absolute controlled you, and now you are unleashed to take vengeance.

With the Dark Urge, any one of these paths can provide a map for how to imagine your life under Bhaal's cult. Any one can provide a map for how to make use of your newfound freedom and to justify becoming a better person and saving the world. Or choosing not to.

[aureliaen]

On redemption

Inspired by @sequesteredbhaalspawn: honestly it really irks me the way bg3 seems to push this idea that you/your companions/"the heroes" are the only ones worthy of healing and/or redemption, sometimes to the point of absurdity. Cw for negativity and criticism.

Durge, of course, being the perfect example. They're evil beyond belief. Cartoonishly so. They eat babies, fuck corpses, torture people for fun, kill purposefully, kill accidentally, and their endgame is taking over the world only to slaughter every last living being that inhabits it.

Obviously this comes down to personal morals, but it's an interesting argument to make, that losing their memories somehow turns them into a brand new person and a victim of their own past. They're never held accountable, not even when the extent of their atrocities comes to light. The narration during their final stand-off with Bhaal sounds promising (to die: to rest, to save the world from yourself) but ultimately turns out to be meaningless. Even after choosing death, the main character has plot armor so strong they get resurrected scot-free, evil wiped, a clean slate that no one else gets. Even though the only thing that separated them from becoming another corpse at the party's feet was Orin's betrayal.

Many of the villains have severe trauma and/or are victims of abuse in ways that mirror the companions' backstories almost to a T. The game is all about breaking cycles of abuse anyway, and it's not really an issue, the way I see it, that not all characters get to have their happy endings. What's strange is the way it's exclusively the characters you're allied with that do. What's stranger is the way the fandom uncritically accepts it or acts as though the villains were somehow more deserving of what happened to them than your companions.

Moral relativity is a human thing and not wrong at all, but let's not pretend the MC's tadpoled friends aren't all ruthless killers chasing their own personal agendas, whether that's vengeance, power or simple self-preservation (with Wyll being probably the only exception).

I feel like it's a disservice to the work of Larian's writers as well as our own understanding of the complexity of human experience to interpret characters as one-dimensional and operating strictly within specific dichotomies: victim/abuser, good/evil etc. Astarion, Gortash, Durge and Orin are the worst offenders from what I've seen, but like, in general. Come on.

[tyran-the-tyranical]

Baldur's Gate & The Human Condition

I want to rant about the themes in bg3 because I've been stuck thinking about them for a while, so now I must rant.

*Also just a recap on the definition of the human condition (haha rhymes)

"The human condition can be defined as the characteristics and key events of human life, including birth, learning, emotion, aspiration, morality, conflict, and death."

I think on the surface it's very clear that there is let's say a motif of breaking cycles or behaviors, liberating oneself from perpetual toxic cycles put upon the characters. From the beginning, I definitely could see that, but furthermore, I think it all comes back to the human condition and its importance throughout the story (Also, yes, the human condition doesn't need to strictly relate the humans as a species or race in bg3)

Time and time again we see these higher powers abuse their subjects or followers; Mystra, Cazador, Shar, Vlaakith, and so on. The common throughline with all these people is that in some way they have lost their humanity or never had it to begin with, and that's where they inevitably fail, and why on the other side our main characters can succeed.

If we look at the good endings for the bg3 cast, when they do not ascend or go back to their masters/leaders they end up much better and perhaps not perfectly but still it's the best endings for them since they still managed to keep their humanity and experience the human condition. If we look at Gale or Astarion, if you choose to ascend them, they're clearly not the same people anymore, they lost some integral part of themselves that allowed them to understand and I suppose emphasize with humanity, with mortals. Though now, if they lose that ability, they are doomed to repeat the faults of their predecessors, incapable of becoming anything more or seeing what they once did, they are forever changed.

On the other-other side of this, we see that even if the characters don't ascend, they're still doomed. Lae'zel is sacrificed, Karlach burns out (tho both of her endings are kinda glum), and so on. There are some exceptions since Wyll still can keep himself (unless u kill Mizora and doom him lol) but at the cost of his father's life and having to replace him when he really doesn't want to anyway.

We are shown these people in a higher power and not even necessarily supernaturally higher either, like the dead three, since they're still all well mortal. Each of them could've kept themselves but each of them couldn't see past themselves, past their sight for power, grief, and desire for destruction. They were either blinded to their human condition or chose not to acknowledge it, which is what enables them to perpetrate the will of their gods without any remorse. They could be seen as victims, especially in Thorm's case, but at the same time, they inevitably chose what they chose with full knowledge of the consequences.

The difference between the Dead Three and our main characters is that our main cast can let people in, they can depend on each other and be vulnerable. They allow themselves to express their fears and thoughts and let others know about their past and their pains. I think it's interesting that the dark urge is probably the only one of the chosen that even comes close to this, as seen with their relationship and affinity for Gortash as well as their later self-reflections throughout the game.

I also think it's cool that the cast longs for connection and can both do so figuratively and literally since they all have the tadpole and can actually mentally connect with each other.

I hope this makes sense and doesn't just sound like absolute shite, or maybe it was already super obvious and I only realized it late lol, I just never put it together that it was the human condition lol.

[frequenceraph]

"Z is a bad character"

Xenoblade 1 and 3 spoilers incoming Ok so Z. I've seen so many people, mostly on twitter and reddit, complain about how this man is a bad character. The thing is though they're missing the point of Z. Z isn't supposed to be complex, he's a force created by origin as a response to the collective will of people to avoid confronting the inevitable collision and dissolution into light that the two worlds are destined for. He's a corrupting influence; an embodiment of the concept of the endless now. Z is compelling by means of the characters he influences. N is widely considered in the fandom to be an extremely well written character-- through the lens of one of the main characters' past lives, we get to experience the pain of loss that made him want to never have to lose anything anymore. Z is the fear of loss, and Noah choosing to confront Z and refuse to give in is him refusing to be afraid of losing the people he loves. He's lost Mio over and over, he had to leave his son behind, he's been unable to defeat moebius and break the cycle over and over, and Z-- his fear of loss-- eventually gets to him. These kinds of interactions make Z compelling and threatening. Z is a representation of the fear and vice that lives inside every single one of us. Even people who are extremely young like Joran can self sabotage and want to stay in a comfortable eternity when that's not the state that anything-- the world nor your interpersonal relationships-- can stay in. Joran is so mired in his assumptions that everyone of the main Keves party thinks he's useless that for a while he isn't able to escape the genuine abuse that he suffers at the hands of Moebius D. And that's Z at work. He (Joran's own assumptions and fears) has paralyzed Joran in a state of self loathing that he's inflicted on himself. There's also another aspect I think people ignore with regard to Z's relationship to past games. And that's that Z is a direct consequence of Shulk's decision at the end of Xenoblade 1 to walk towards the future hand in hand with everyone. Without a god to rule over them, people falling to their worst vices can directly influence the world. Z acts as a foil to Zanza in a sense, both serving as a demonstration of the flaws of a world with and without gods. Shulk's choice didn't result in utopia. There's always going to be something to fight for, and sometimes that thing is ourselves rather than some made up enemy. And that, I feel is the core message of Xenoblade 3. Given that western media has imbued us with the idea that characters need to be compelling in the same way that-- as hbomberguy said-- games need to be fun, it's easy to see why people would write off Z as being a bad character when they don't understand the broader context in which he exists. Like sure Z sits around and watches the main party do shit in a theatre in the middle of origin and that's all he does, but Z taking direct action would be against the spirit of his character. He (our internal vices, fear of change) operates through others, both figuratively and literally. We had to come to him in the final encounter because he-- from what I understand-- primarily exists in people's minds. TL;DR Z doesn't need to be a compelling character in the traditional sense. He's compelling by means of the characters he influences and what he represents; the flaws of a world without gods.

[d20bunny]

I love all the companions and several NPCs. I think some of their stories transcend the fantasy world easier than others. I love that they are all adults. I love that we aren't here sexualising characters that look like teen-agers (some games and anime do do that to us).

Here are some story themes that I think really transcend well past the fantasy world (see if you can recognize the characters' story beats):

Stories of depression, feeling worthless, self sacrifice, people pleasing, seeking acknowledgment, coming into your own

Stories of reconciling with a parent figure who had previously misunderstood you and kicked you out of home

Stories of dealing with loss, grief, facing your own mortality, the existential crisis and juxtaposition of a world in turmoil yet still being happy and grateful for the present moment

Stories of being used by a powerful figure you had faith or love or devotion in, and losing faith in that figure, and then having to find your own way, to carve a new path for yourself, dealing with the betrayal and anger

Stories of being part of a very controlling or demanding church, the sacrifices you don't even notice you are making for your faith or your church community, perhaps losing that faith, or leaving behind your faith

Stories of human trafficking, of sexual, physical and emotional abuse and neglect, of healing, of PTSD, of learning boundaries, of discovering who you are whilst you are healing, breaking the cycle of abuse

Stories of being a refugee, and having to find a new home, keeping hope alive, keeping your family safe, xenophobia, of not being accepted anywhere, of having to face dangerous circumstances as a person displaced from their home, of being separated from your family and not having the power to do anything about it

Stories of revenge, what it does to the mind, how it feels after revenge has been taken or if it should be pursued, dealing with the anger and catharsis of revenge

Stories of having to make difficult choices, difficult bargains, in order to secure something for yourself or your loved ones - safety, power, information. Life is often about choosing between less than savory choices, choosing between difficult outcomes where there is no obvious right or wrong

Stories of having your world view shattered, and having to pick up the pieces and leaning on your friends to help you, having to make sense of your world when you feel everything you've ever known has somehow been tainted or different to what you understood it to be

Stories of guilt, of duty, of putting yourself last, of what it means to be a leader or the one others always look to for guidance, of unwanted responsibilities, of the burden of leadership, of needing a purpose in order to feel useful and needed in the world

[paradox-time]

@basil-does-arttt

Heeeeyyyy, thanks for giving me an excuse to ranttt <3<3

Ok so, I saw a post of yours that was something like "what about gortash do fans find appealing?”

I'm going to try my best to answer why some of us are fans of this Absolute Shitbag (pun intended)

Some of my credentials, I've played the game for over 700 hours over about 4 months, seen, made, and interacted with tons of fan content and talked about it at length with other fans and unwilling friends. I make it my job to know every single scrap of Lore the game has to offer, going to stupid lengths to read all the books and letters hidden throughout the game, I also savescum the hell out of dialog options so I don't miss any exposition. I've played a tav twice and a dark urge 8 times, plus started but never finished other origin playthroughs.

Safe to say. I am deranged. (Yay hyperfixation)

Anyway, Enver Gortash is one of my favorite villains in fiction. This does not, in any way, mean that I admire or excuse any of his actions. I don't find him handsome or charming. He isn't redeemable or even likable in any capacity as a person.

The entire main theme of the game is whether or not the characters perpetuate the cycle of abuse or break it. You see that with Astarion, he either kills Cazador and forges his own future as a freed spawn, or ascends, and becomes someone who is just as bad and abusive as Cazador. You see it with Shadowheart in whether she chooses to live a life under Shar's cruel influence, or leave her past behind her and embrace Selúne. You see it in Gale and whether he ascends to Godhhood and is nothing like the kind and inquisitive person he once was, or leaves Mystra and his life as an archmage behind to live a life of quiet comfort where he can follow his passions and teach people like he should have been taught instead of isolating students like how mystra and elminster isolated him.

Many more examples blah blah blah

Ok, a lot of people (wrongly) try to justify and apologize for everything gortash has done by pointing at his backstory like a gotcha thing.

Gortash's parents sold him into slavery when he was very young to pay off their debts. The person who then raised and owned Gortash was none other than the ultimate slimeball, Raphael the Cambion. In this environment, Gortash grew incredibly bitter and started to worship Bane, the god of Tyranny, Dictatorship, Strife, and Subjugation. This was because he believed he was owed power over others for everything he was put through. He then becomes a slave trader, selling Karlach to Zariel is one notable example, a war profiteer and arms dealer, he keeps the families of his prisoners held hostage in an underwater prison that was rigged to explode and then subsequently flood if any of his factory staff tried to escape. His workers were also made to wear fucking bomb collars. He sews bigotry in the general public by not letting refugees in the city and controlling the media (newspapers and posters). His entire goal and religious doctrine is founded on the belief that it is his divine right to control and oppress people.

It has been so freaking long since I've found a piece of media that had an actual villain, but still kept said villain's story and motives interesting! Lots of modern media really tries to go the formulaic propaganda villain route. “Character A wants to do the right thing. Character B wants to do the right thing but does it in a BAD and DiSrUpTiVe way!! Gasp!! Villain!” I think it's supposed to endorse and enforce moral superiority of centrists, yuck. but that's a Different Tangent™.

I feel like there are a lot of fans that think that in order to like a character, they have to be morally palatable and pg or whatever. I see lots of fans that can't fathom liking a character that is genuinely evil and a bad person. So they just. Ignore the entire central point of the character.

Gortash sucks ass. If I met him in real life I would beat his ass into the dirt. But he isn't real. And fiction, especially interactive fiction, is an amazing way to explore darker themes in a safe and controlled environment. This is amazing for dozens of reasons, including exploration of catharsis.

I like Gortash because he amazing as a Villain. His story is super connected to the themes of the game. His acting is done with so much care and talent from the production team at Larian.

Fans who fawn over and woobify him. Umm. Do better. Get media literate please. No hate, love all the gortash content, especially in relation to the Dark Urge's story line. But please stop pretending he isn't as bad as he is. That's one of the main things I find compelling about him as a story device in the first place. You can like evil characters because they're fake.

Ummm conclusion…. Yeah. I like Gortash because he makes a fun story.

[mintedwitcher]

choose violence ask game: 20. part of canon you found tedious or boring and/or 18. it's absolutely criminal that the fandom has been sleeping on...

I can't think of an answer for 18 so I'll just answer 20 ❤️

20. Part of canon you found tedious or boring?

Its been said by others but the copaganda. I'm sorry but it seems like every season there's some storyline or another where Athena abuses her power as a sergeant and we're all supposed to be like "You go girl!" about it and I'm just sick of it. Athena is a great character when she's not being such a fucking cop (derogatory) and I want her to be fired. If this is the era of breaking cycles, fire her.

(Choose violence)

[orinthered]

i have a lot of thoughts about dos2 spinning in my head all the time but i think one of my favourite things about it is the way sebille’s story is presented to you as her companion.

sebille as a companion is genuinely wonderful: vengeance taken completely unrepentantly. she is not punished by the narrative for choosing to take revenge on the man who’s wronged her for most of her life, and you, as the character who travels with her, can’t convince her to take the peaceful side. it’s not even an option, in fact.

and if you take her to the academy without killing the master, she gets mad and just fucking leaves you! that’s GREAT, that’s BRILLIANT. it makes her feel like a character and not just another vehicle for your choices. choosing to strike a deal with the master or choosing not to kill him cripples you by taking away a companion, and then you’ll have to spend a shitload of money on an unimportant no-personality mercenary to replace her, AND it reestablishes her character as someone who is vengeance-driven. the game says “no, wanting revenge on someone who hurt you is normal and just!”

her moral tribulations are less about whether her quest for vengeance is justified, because it is! sebille wants to be happy, but she can’t be happy when the men who have hurt her are still alive. can a woman bent into the shape of a knife be used for a gentler purpose? can sebille ever unlearn the bloodthirst thrust upon her in her youth? THAT is what her story revolves around, breaking the cycle of abuse, and it’s so fucking delicious.

theres a lot more to love about sebille’s story that i might even talk about sometime but honestly even just this tangent makes me so giddy i love sebille!!!!!!