#bi pan discourse

[a-polite-melody]

It would be so nice if every few years queer tumblr didn’t do a, “this queer identity is more privileged than the rest of us and shouldn’t talk about their issues/shouldn’t even be in the community,” about another identity.

Since I’ve been here it’s been: nonbinary people, bisexual people, asexual and aromantic people, polyamorous people, pansexual people, people who only use the word queer for their identity, trans men/mascs, and intersex people. At least. I might’ve missed something.

We’re stronger together. We all need space to discuss our experiences and all deserve not to be spoken over.

[yourartmatters-itswhatgotmehere]

!!!!

I'm not against the pan label in any way, but it kind of terrifies me how many people I talk to that genuinely believe "pan = attracted to everyone" and "bi = attracted to everyone that isn't trans/nonbinary."

I'm bisexual. I'm attracted to all genders. Including nonbinary and trans people. That isn't me mislabeling myself, either. Bisexuality has always been "two or more" (or "attraction to all genders" as opposed to pan which is "attraction regardless of gender" depending on who you ask. I personally use the "attraction to all genders" definition of bi for myself).

While I also believe in the concept of "gender and sexuality can be fucky, so use whatever labels you think fit you," I've determined that the pan label doesn't fit me like bi does, and I refuse to be told I'm "actually pansexual" or use pan and bi interchangeably just because there are people out there who still believe "bi = cis men and cis women, and pan = all."

If you use the pansexual label, that's fine. I don't have a problem with people identifying as pan. What I have a problem with is people who think pan is a "more inclusive" version of bi and use that definition of pan while claiming bisexuality doesn't include trans and nonbinary people.

I'm just really getting tired of explaining to people that bisexuality includes trans and nonbinary people. I'm tired of people assuming I'm transphobic because I don't identify as pan or "correcting" me when I give them the details of my attraction.

The pansexual label has a place in the queer community and pansexual people should be allowed to exist in queer and mspec spaces unimpeded. This doesn't mean we should keep letting these misconceptions about bisexuality continue, however. I want pan people to denounce these misconceptions just as hard as bi people have to.

If you're pan, please correct people when they use the incorrect definitions of bi and pan. It'll make things a million times easier if we work together to educate people.

[anarcho-catboyism]

A lot of discourse could stop if y'all stopped approaching every situation with this idea that your experience is the default one

[gray-ace-space]

recently encountered a post where someone said "gender is fluid but sexuality isn't". (they were talking about bi lesbians.)

my first thought was: does that person, like. hear what they're saying? how can you explicitly hold two beliefs that are so logically inconsistent and not see it? how can you simultaneously think gender is this fluid and complex thing, but sexuality, much of which is defined around gender, is simple and stationary and its boundaries need policing?

but like, fuck, why even argue against it, right? there is no internal logic because there is no logical thought behind it. these are not genuine beliefs. this person is repeating what is currently acceptable in their (small) specific social circle. this is the same person who, a few years back, would be excluding nonbinary lesbians, but nonbinary lesbians are cool and normal on queer tumblr now, so they'll exclude bi lesbians instead, and not even pause to reflect on the difference.

oh, and if you read this and thought "these people don't even actually accept nb lesbians either", ding ding ding! because it's not a real, deep belief, that acceptance is extremely shallow and conditional. so as soon as someone is an nb lesbian in a way these people find odd (like being both a man and a lesbian) they will exclude them too and find a way to justify it.

why do we have to endlessly go through this cycle with queer identities. can we not? can we just not. i'm tired.

[silly-media-enjoyer]

reminder that being queer is not a medical condition and you don't have to fit in a specific set of symptoms to use certain labels. just call yourself whatever you'd like even if you don't fit in the commonly accepted definition.

[hiriamcdaniels]

Don't make me tap the sign

[existennialmemes]

I'm just over here, being Bisexual and having immense overwhelming love for my Pansexual comrades, because the words other people use to define themselves are not about me <3

[oy--with-the-poodles-already]

”mspec lesbians and lesboys DNI” BOOOOO!! 🍅 BOOOO!!!! 🍅 🍅 🍅

[luckytheburger]

"Homoromantic bisexuals are valid but bi lesbians aren't" so close! You are actually just Fucking Stupid

[zarekthelordofthefries]

BG3 Companion Sexuality Headcanons

Astarion: Pansexual. Has a slight preference for men. Has a complicated relationship with feelings of attraction and connection, so doesn't usually like thinking about his own sexual identity. Thinks Wyll is the hottest other party member.

Lae'zel: Pansexual, kind of. Doesn't really relate to sex and gender in the same way as the Faerunian companions. Githyanki socially de-emphasize romance, and all sex is generally for pleasure since Vlaakith decides who bears eggs. Lae'zel is alloromantic, but romance isn't generally at the front of her mind in a relationship. Neither is gender; ultimately Lae'zel is attracted to conviction and fighting prowess, moreso even than anything physical.

Shadowheart: Bisexual. Very slight preference for men. (EDIT: I've rotated this in my mind after people pointed it out and I think actually Shadowheart has a slight preference for women.) Remained closeted into adulthood, not because the other Sharrans would discriminate against her (they generally don't care about sexuality) but because she wanted to impress everyone with how well she could keep the secret. Also, excessively kinky.

Gale: Bisexual. Has more experience with women than with men, but that has more to do with circumstances than preference. Though physical appearance isn't not a factor, he would probably describe himself as a sapiosexual; he's attracted to knowledge, intellectual curiosity, and strong opinions. Had crushes on several teachers in wizard school.

Wyll: Bisexual. Realized he wasn't just attracted to women at a young age, and his father was very supportive. No preference between genders, but one of his favorite things to do is court gentlemen exactly the same way he courts ladies; he likes being the devoted chivalric prince to men since he knows it's less common for them to be flattered and told they're beautiful.

Karlach: Pansexual. Years of being unable to make genuine connections with anyone have made her horny for affection, kindness, and commitment. Maybe had some gender preference before going to Hell, but her time there has given her lots of time to consider basically any options. Has at least a slight crush on basically every other party member.

Halsin: Pansexual. No gender preference. Halsin has had centuries to explore his sexuality, and his robust understanding of nature gives him a non-binary perspective on gender and sex. Nothing is a casual fling for this dude, though -- if you show the slightest bit of interest in him he will dedicate his whole heart to you. And also anyone else who shows interest in him at the same time.

Minthara: I didn't actually have Minthara in my party, but from what I've seen she seems like a pretty traditional drow, and when I think of drow and sexuality I sort of imagine a reverse of ancient Greek customs; bisexuality is the norm, men are prized for their beauty and for marriagibility, but it's expected that women will also have flings with other women, and those relationships are often considered more meaningful. I imagine Minthara follows those lines, being bisexual and assuming she may one day marry a beautiful man but being more inclined to meaningful, affectionate relationships with women, due to her own prejudices moreso than preference between genders.

Jaheira: Thought she was straight for the first century of her life, but has more recently opened up to other possibilities. Isn't particularly interested in marriage or a deep interpersonal romance at this point in her life, but she has entered a state of questioning her sexuality -- she's just not super interested in experimenting with actual relationships. She's got more important stuff to do. Did have a fling with Ninefingers that neither of them tell anyone about.

Minsc: Doesn't like labels. Minsc isn't interested in finding a partner, doesn't really care about sex, and is enthusiastic about romance mainly when other people do it. He hasn't given a lot of thought to where he might fall on any sexual/romantic spectrum, but he definitely sees beauty in all of his friends. He will give you the most heartfelt and often embarassing compliments on your personality, style, and appearance. Does that mean he's attracted to you? Maybe, maybe not, but there's definitely something queerplatonic going on.

[theygender]

Just discovered the term les4les. Are we really trying to make biphobia cool again

[anarcho-catboyism]

Sorry but you're not a "totally progressive radical queer" if everytime you see a gender or sexuality you don't understand you become a fucking Conservative about it.

[starspangledbatter]

⭐️ TADC Twitter is something else right now. Out of curiosity, I go under the Digital Circus tag and witness Marissa discussing Gangle shipping discourse, Gooseworx telling the fandom to behave because of said shipping discourse, and even more shipping discourse involving Ribbun, Abstragedy, RagaPom, and RagaOrbs 😭. What happened over the weekend? How did all of this escalate after a 51 second trailer? I think we should reconsider three things: ⭐️

1. Anyone can be shipped with anyone. Have at it, go crazy. Like or dislike a ship, it’s all good. Just don’t harass people over who they paid with who.

2. The RagaOrbs theory is simply just a theory. I know some Ragatha lesbian believers don’t like this theory and while that is valid, don’t spread negativity towards the theorist because of it. It’s all good fun. Plus, Ragatha doesn’t have to be straight or gay. Bisexuality/Pansexuality exists >:D.

3. Let us be a good fandom. Let’s agree to disagree and respect the thoughts of others. It’s not right to see well-meaning people being harassed for their own opinions. As long as they aren’t harming anyone, why be offended?

[machrealgirl]

btw if any cute bisexuals who are also sick of discourse wanna meet up and take a pic where we're kissing and i'm holding the pan flag and you're holding the bi flag. this is a service im willing to provide

[plague-and-creatures]

People who try to define lesbian solely by the exclusion on men and men aligned people are weird and come off as kinda immature to me

And I'm not just talking about the "nmlnm" people, I'm also talking about the people that will question a lesbian's sexuality if she idolizes a male celebrity, because no lesbian could ever like a man enough to put pictures of him all over her wall unless she wasn't really a lesbian

Apparently????

It's the people who make it a point that they have a distaste for or hatred of men, and they've tied that into their sexual orientation

Then they go "can we have something that's not all about men for once?", not realizing that by using the exclusion of men to define a certain identity they still are making it all about men

And talking about bi-lesbians with people like this always comes down to what is basically "well bisexuality can include attraction to men and I don't want boy cooties on my sexuality!"

Literally grow up

[januscorner]

Meeting other queer people irl made me realize how irrelevant online queer discourse is. My teacher was nonbinary and gay, no one cared. A girl in the hospital was a lesbian who liked guys, no one in the group of mainly cishetallos even batted an eye. Don’t let online discourse get you down because in the real world people don’t care.