#bi and pan and other mspec identities INCLUDING mspec gays/lesbians

[seraphic-sapphic-safehaven]

Nah fr though, don't reblog my shit if you're hateful towards any queer identity!!

If you don't like pan, ply, or omni people, fuck off.

Hate MOGAI? Get bent.

If you don't like acespecs and/or arospecs, fuck off.

Hate mspec lesbians? Leave right tf now.

If you don't like enbies, fuck off.

Hate cultural identities? Turn tf around.

If you're hateful towards any of these identities and/or lesbians, bi people, gay people, trans people, or any other part of this community, get the literal and actual fuck out of here.

WE DON'T DO EXCLUSIONARY BULLSHIT IN THIS SPACE! WE NEVER HAVE! AND WE NEVER, EVER, EVERRRR WILL!!

This is a safe space for queer people, especially the ones who get spoken over and shit on all the time, NOT hateful and bigoted people. And when I say hateful and bigoted people, I'm including queer people who feel the need to hurt and harm and harass and shit-talk other queers. Go anywhere else if you wanna be a jerk!! Hope this helps 🫶🏾🫶🏾

[historyinclusionist]

History Inclusionist

An "Inclusionist" who believes that identities which are 1) shown to be supported in the community's history 2) are harmless personal identities that don't pose harm to others are valid and should be included in their communities.

Overall:

"History Inclusionism" refers to being inclusive of personal identities based on the identity being:

A self affirmed personal identity (locatable only within a person's interaction with and relations to the world around you)

Historically shown to be included in an identity subculture (Such as in a notable number of personal accounts, poems, zines, books, or other media from a subculture)

Shown to be non harmful to other identities or persons (Such as in more than one professional study)

Examples: - Different studies over human history have concluded that being raised by gay parents doesn't cause inherent harm to children. Therefore, gay relationships are provably shown to be non harmful. They are included here. - Different self-reports, comics, zines, and other writings from the past 60 years mention male lesbians, bi lesbians, and lesbians in relationships with men. Therefore, it is historically shown to be included in lesbian culture, and is included here. - Studies, reports, and other examinations by professionals over the course of human history have come to the conclusion that minors in relationships with adults cannot properly consent and are harmed by those "relationships." Therefore, personal identities that try to justify these "relationships" are not included here.

"Personal Identity"?

"Personal Identity" is a purposefully broad term meant to apply to most self-affirmed forms of identification (plurality status, orientation, gender, etc).

Being a History Inclusionist means that you are in complete support of the following personal identities:

Plurality which does not attribute its origins to trauma

Lesbians who are also male / Gay men who are also female

Lesbians who are also mspec (bi, pan, poly, etc) / Gay men who are also mspec

Transgender / nonbinary people who don't experience dysphoria or only feel euphoria

Nonbinary genders, including xenogenders / nonbinary genders that are "atypical" (based on fictional characters, highly specific, based on animals, etc)

"Atypical" relationship formats such as polyamorous relationships, relationship anarchy, kink-focused relationships, etc (Or generally any other form of relationship between two or more consenting people that would not fall under anything on the list below this)

Gender presentations which conflict with and/or defy the expected norm (Women who use he/him pronouns, men who present feminine, etc)

Being a History Inclusionist means that you absolutely do not tolerate or support the following:

Acting on or encouraging attraction to children as an adult (Ped*philia)

Acting on, encouraging attraction to, or associating positive feelings with the attraction to one's family members (Inc*st)

Acting on or encouraging attraction to, or associating positive feelings with the attraction to animals (Z*ophilia)

TransID/TransX communities, the idea that someone can transition into or identify as an age, disorder, or condition they physically are not or do not have (transrace/diarace/trace, transabled/transdisorder/'transplural'/transautistic, and so on)

Arguing with other members of the LGBT community over who is allowed to use derogatory words (Q-eer, f-ggot, d-ke, and so on)

Tagging: @mogai-sunflowers @neopronouns @radiomogai

If you're interested in reading more about why I consider XYZ a good faith thing and why I don't consider XYZ the same, I made a Carrd! 📖🏳️‍🌈

[trulyradicalactivist]

srry if you dont want us interacting. we're anti radqueer and anti transid but sometimes we think joining the rq and transid community seems fun.

we've seen it from the outside, and we've seen some rqs enable abusive behavior so we've been repulsed by it... but idk lately im kind of just looking at it and like. im just like okay well it cant be that bad.

i just dont want to identify with a term thats associated with harmful ideology. what is even the true definition of radqueer ??!! like, a even updated definition..? theres got to be.

idk why i feel so attracted to the rq and transid community today. we're usually so repulsed but. yet again idk. i personally even want to experiment with transids.

like now im just thinking about it its just like. when i think of identity. im just like "who the fuck cares". i have anarchist views and want to uplift and support others completely while being against anything abusive and unhealthy and is the radqueer community really like that? i mean, are we just seeing it from the outside?

if we join the radqueer and transid community will others turn on us? could we identify with transids ??? we just dont want to identify with anything that means supporting ableism, abuse, etc. thats all we want but maybe we're just looking at the bad parts of the radqueer and transid community

auughghhhhh i dont iknow i dont knowwww 😭

Hello. Do not worry, I have no interaction limitations. I invite all people to my blog to discuss and debate with me. I will go through your ask point by point.

If I miss anything, if any of my information is wrong, if I misspell anything, or otherwise there are any errors in my text or demeanor, do forgive me, It has been a long day and I am very tired. You can always send a follow up ask or send me a direct message to follow up.

Answers are under the cut.

“i just dont want to identify with a term thats associated with harmful ideology. what is even the true definition of radqueer ??!! like, a even updated definition..? theres got to be.”

There is an updated definition. Actually, there are many. Radqueer, after it's initial coining, had a recoin, and many have made things like pre and post radqueer to go along with it. However, the general basis of radqueers ideology is “live and let live”, which speaks for itself. All people, nonpeople, people-ish creatures, and so on, are all equal and accepted as non-normative as they are.

According to https://radqueeredu.carrd.co/#meaning , the definition of radqueer is: “Radqueer, often broken down to Radical Queerness, is a blanket term that covers a list of ideologies while technically being an ideology in itself. While there is seemingly a lot of debate surrounding the label itself and its exact meaning, it is generally agreed that the basis of the radqueer ideology is acceptance of all queer identities to a radical extent. This includes accepting and supporting controversial queer identities such as; mspec monos (ex: bi/pan/omni lesbians/gays), overlapping or contradictory labels(ex: lesboys/turigirls), trans-identities including non-gendertransids (ex: transrace, transage, etc.), paraphilias and parasexualities. The ideology also includes support for non-queer related subjects such as; non-traumagenic systems, freedom in fiction (ex: pro/com/darkship,dark fiction, etc.), non-humanism (ex: therians, otherkins, etc.), bodily autonomy. Generally speaking, and to sum this all up, radqueer means "live and let live" to it's fullest extent in terms of personal identity! Due to this radical acceptance, there has been a decently sized community built around this ideology and different branches of it, known as the Radqueer Community.”

Here is (to my knowledge) the original coining post of the term Radqueer. https://archive.ph/jiYnS . Unfortunately, I am currently unable to find the flag and coining post for the New Radqueer flag and term, but if I find it, I will reblog this post with it.

“like now im just thinking about it its just like. when i think of identity. im just like "who the fuck cares". i have anarchist views and want to uplift and support others completely while being against anything abusive and unhealthy and is the radqueer community really like that? i mean, are we just seeing it from the outside?”

That ideology is the basis of radqueer itself. As I stated before, it is live and let live. It is based upon an anarchist view of identity and how it affects society as a whole. Conabuse (consensual abuse) is a thing in the community, but one could compare that to kink within pride. A foundational item that we must accept as simply the way of nature when identity is put up for self interpretation. In short, it is just the way life goes. Where there is identity there is the identity between partners, whether romantic, platonic, or simply transactional. As it is stated in the name, it is completely consensual.

“if we join the radqueer and transid community will others turn on us? could we identify with transids ??? we just dont want to identify with anything that means supporting ableism, abuse, etc. thats all we want but maybe we're just looking at the bad parts of the radqueer and transid community”

In truth? Maybe. People are cruel and can turn on one another for simple things. That shouldn't stop you. The Radqueer Community fights against ableism, sexism, transphobia, bigotry of all kinds. We fight for identity, for self reflection, for the equality of all people. It is a community of kindness. Yes, I concede, we have had our fair share of bad apples, but I have never seen that rot slip into the core of what we have. We all understand one thing. It is to fight for freedom for all. I will say, anti-radqueers lie. They lie often. It is common I see stereotypes and misinformation spread around like factual statements. You want the truth? Ask the community yourself and see what you find. Do not rely on a third party for your opinions.

My belief? I love the radqueer community. I do my volunteer work in its name and I take pride and joy in my transidentites. From those who are Transracial, to ones who are Objectum, to TransHarmed/TransHarmful identifers, to the Conabuse partakers, to those who are Necros, to those who are simply far from the norm in their own unlabeled ways, we all deserve the joy of being able to identify how it is we please. With no harm done to us or those around us, we are as entitled to joy as all others.

I wish you well. Have a lovely day.

[broken-dollhouse]

Lesbian / Sapphic Flags I've already posted the lesbian flag in specific , this is moreso mspec lesbian identities

I will apologize for how many of these we have to post , they're slightly filler while we work on templates and other misc things! Discourse is also not allowed on this post , we will likely just block , we make these stamps for anyone who may find use in them and don't wanna deal with discourse

NOTICE : When it comes to these stamps please follow the original creators boundaries. I ask mine are followed exclusively in terms of interactions , the original creators are to be followed when it comes to use of the flags however. Should the original creator wish we remove this post we will , simply send us an ask or dm in relation.

Please feel free to send asks with flags you want to see as stamps , we're currently working through a list of more well known identities along side any flags in our likes [said list includes bi , pan , omni , ply , lesbian , gay , trans , and similar identities] , you can find all of the current flags here [link] as it's often updated before we post

Flag Creators: Bi Lesbian 1 - @/emelinet Mspec Lesbian - @/genderstarbucks Hibiscus Sapphic - @/loveletterliom Omnipan Lesbian - @/haunted-thing Rosebian - @/lesboytism Rest of the flags - @/caeliangel

Bi Lesbian | Mspec Lesbian | Hibiscus Sapphic Omnipan Lesbian | Rosebian | Bi Lesbian Omni Lesbian | Ply Lesbian | Pan Lesbian

[genderstarbucks]

hihi! so for some context I’m trying to collect terms that include attraction to women, could I get a list of some terms that fit this description? :3

Womasexual, or womansexual, is a sexual orientation describing exclusive attraction to women. This includes attraction to binary women and may also include attraction to female-aligned non-binary individuals.

Femaric is an umbrella term to describe any attraction to women or feminine-aligned individuals, and a standalone term as a non-straight identity. It was made with non-binary individuals in mind but can be used by anyone who experiences non-straight attraction to women. This includes all sapphic women as well as bisexual and pansexual men, as well as any other men who are attracted to women but are not straight.

Azalean / QLM is an orientation where one is queer, in any form, and loves women. They can also love any other genders.

Liersian / Liersic is a term for anybody who feels gay attraction to women, regardless of one's own gender.

Reilian is a term for anybody who feels straight attraction to women, regardless of one's own gender.

Lesbian is a term that defines queer attraction to women. This attraction is most commonly used as exclusively wlw/nblw attraction, as communities surrounding exclusive wlw/nblw have become the primary part of the lesbian community. However, there is no one perfect definition that encompasses all experiences of lesbianism. This term includes butch, femme, non-binary, anonbinary, cusper, and multigendered individuals.

QLW Terms:

ALW / XLW

AGLW - Agenirian

AGLW - Azalian

AGLW - Ablateric

BLW - Blank Loving Women

GVLW - Gendervoid Loving Women

KLW - Kenochoric Loving Women

MLQW

MLW - Romeric

NBLW - Trixic

QLW Omni

WLW - Sapphic

XLW - Xenirian

Carnian - NBLW / QLW

Harian - Multigender Men Loving Women

Queer MLW

Loving Women:

Femique

Hibarian - Queer Love for Women

Lilaen

Mspec Lilaen Flags

Platonic Attraction to Women

Sophian - Queer + Straight for Women

Sapphic Flags:

Mspec Sapphic

Pan Label Sapphic

Sapphic Bisexual

Sapphic Omni

Sapphisensual

Sapphoplatonic

Lesbian Flags:

Aurora Lesbian

Bi Lesbian

Dawn Lesbian

Dusk Lesbian

Flowerbed Lesbian

Moth Lesbian

Nightfall Lesbian

Trixic Flags:

Bi Trixic

Mspec Trixic

Mspec Trixic Flags

Omnitrix

Smoke Trixic - Mono Trixic

Trixic Bisexual

Vaporic - Mspec Trixic

Neptunic Flags:

Bi Neptunic

Mspec Neptunic

Omni Neptunic

Abro Flags:

Abroconsbian

Abroconswoman

Abrofem

Abrosapphic

Abro Lesbian

Abro Neptunic

Finabro

Womabro

Mono Flags:

Rosaean - Exclusive* WLW

Skyian - Mono Sophian

Mspec Flags:

Lunian

Lobelian - Mspec Lilaen

Mspec Aurora Lesbian

Mspec Lesbian Flags

Queer Mspec Lesbian

Sabrinian - Mspec Sophian

WLW/MLW/NBLW Pref - Bi Flags

WLW/MLW/NBLW Pref - Ply Flags

WLW/MLW/NBLW Pref - Pan Flags

Combo Flags:

Darcian Lesbian

Enbian Lesbian

Enbian Neptunic Lesbian

Feminamoric Lesbian

Finsexual Lesbian

Mestric Lesbian

Neptunisaph

Neptunitrix

Neptunitrixbian

Noma- Lesbian

Sapphixic

Trixenamoric

Trixen- Sapphic

Trixic Lesbian

QLW Lesbitrix Enbian

Misc:

Darcian

Faunic

Feminaesexual

Feminamoric

Femmesexual

Finsexual

Iridian

Lydian

Meadowian

Minwomasexual

Neptunic

Percafabqueer

Umbalian

Venusic

Violettian

Womquallian / Womquall

This only took 3 1/2 hours to put together but wtv 💀

[starcanwrecked-confessions]

mspec anon from a couple of days ago elaborating since you asked.

it's just some little things that probably are fine to other mspec people but are weird to me. some of it is how some people talk about mspec. like "this m/f pairing is bi4bi" but not suggesting any attraction, celebrity crush, childhood crush, whatever, they could have or could have had. makes it feel like bisexuality is treated as straight but queer bc straight is bad and queer is good. not saying that attraction = action, or that a mspec person who hasn't dated someone of the same gender is invalid, just that they do have to have or have had attraction to someone of a gender like their own. not saying m/f bi4bi is bad, i write a lot of it myself, just a pattern i sometimes notice.

on the flip side, canon bisexuality is treated as gay but with a different word. there are absolutely m/f ruth fics, but there are more f/f ruth fics. this isn't bad in itself, i love it when ruth gets the girl. and there's a woeful lack of femslash generally. this isn't me saying ruth being with one or several girls is bad, i love it. but i feel like a lot of those don't address that she is attracted to men as well.

i think certain people, when they're doing m/m or f/f relationships with characters without canon/semi-canon queer identites often make them monosexual. not everyone and not a majority. that can feel invalidating bc it feels like it's saying "you can't really be attracted to more than one gender". or sort of "you don't like the same gender as much as a fully gay person can if you also like the opposite gender". not on purpose, i'm sure, i don't think people are actually being biphobic or whatever. it just is an implication that kinda hurts.

sexuality discourse for this next part. like the rest of it hasn't been sexuality discourse.

also bi steph is weird to me. generally. most of the time. people can headcanon characters how they want, always, but i find it uncomfortable when mariah says she's pan, and has said that a couple of times, but people see her as bi because of the vibes or something. bisexuality and pansexuality aren't the same, but they are similar, and i don't think that people who view steph as bi have a real reason for differentiating those two identities other than "edgy popular girl means bi". i understand that's not where most people are coming from, and it's certainly not intentional. from my outside to them perspective, it feels like sexuality defined by personality traits and not just... who they are.

that and i really didn't like that anon about "an angel getting it's wings ripped off". i get it's fandom language, sure. but that's really evocative language to suggest. grace is a lesbian and max is gay. which is fine, excellent headcanon!! see them that way, go for it, (/gen). but it felt like behind that was they can't be queer if they're bi. i'm probably reading too much into things, and i know that, but that doesn't mean it didn't hurt. i think you can have headcanons without going that far.

again i do want to reiterate: i'm not saying people are being biphobic. i'm not saying that your headcanons or ships are invalid. all i'm saying is, as a bisexual, these little things that probably mean nothing to no one ever build up and make me uncomfortable from time to time. and i sent that anon at one of those times. i get that i'm being overly sensitive, i get that other people with different identities (including sexualities) in fandom feel ostracized for different reasons. this is just my pent up experience.

thanks for reading, i am so sorry if this launches a bunch of discourse. or brings up discourse again? i just thought you wanted an explanation so here it is.

~~~

[xoxo-ren-xoxo]

Hey, I’m new to learning a lot of queer terms on tumblr (even tho i been gay since forever). I never heard of “bi-lesbian.” Is this referring to lesbians that are interested in transmen and women (im just assuming)? No hate, just curious.✌🏾peace n luv to my fellow gays

Put simply, bi lesbian (or mspec lesbian, which is an umbrella term that includes pan, omni, etc lesbians) means anyone who uses both the terms bisexual and lesbian.

There are a number of different reasons why someone might use the term, a few of these are:

Using the historical definition of lesbian, which included bi women

Using lesbian as an umbrella term for anyone with queer attraction to women

Being attracted to women and other genders, but not binary men, and wishing to express that they aren't only into binary women

Being bisexual in terms of sexuality, but lesbian in terms of gender (lesbian can be a gender identity, and has been historically) or the other way around (bisexual can also be a gender, an older term often used instead of bigender)

Being bisexual but homoromantic, or homosexual but biromantic (ie the split attraction model)

Being bisexual but choosing to only pursue women and wanting to express that

Being genderqueer, multigender or genderfluid and feeling like the more complex label fits better to describe how your sexuality works

Most of the above also apply to pan lesbians, omni lesbians, and so on.

And there are many other reasons why someone might use the label, those are just a few off the top of my head! Mspec lesbian supporters also usually advocate for bi people to be included in lesbian spaces (as they always have been!) particularly because of our shared experiences.

We tend to believe that there are reasons why a man might call themselves a lesbian in good faith (for example, a trans man who has been part of the lesbian community pre-transition may still feel attached to the label, or a multigender person who is both a man and a woman may use the term lesbian, or a non-binary masc-leaning person may use the term man and lesbian at the same time etc.). Obviously, if a cishet guy is being creepy and trying to get into lesbian spaces, we don't think that's okay - but in my opinion it's easy to tell those people apart from people who are acting in good faith. Most mspec lesbians and lesbian men / lesboys are genderqueer in some way!

There are better sources that explore the terms and show that they've been around since at least the 1970s, but I just woke up so you'll have to forgive me for not linking them rn. If anyone wants to see those I can probably find them later!

Thanks for the ask, I hope this was helpful :)

[sevikasenby]

hii sorry what is mspc lesbian? idk if I write that right but it's your Last post.

please if you can explain I don't indurestand

honestly, please don’t worry about not understanding it, seriously don’t. it’s all complete bullshit anyways but i will still try and explain it for you the best i can.

“mspec” is basically an umbrella term for multiple different “identities”. just think of it as how gay (or sometimes queer) is used as an umbrella term for the lgbtq+ community as a whole. like we’re all gay. but we use lesbian, bi, pan, etc. to be more specific.

but said mspec “identities” include bullshit, such as “bi lesbian”, “pan lesbian”, “straight lesbian” and more 🙄

they’re all complete contradictions to what a lesbian is (which is a non man loving a non man). all these “mspec” lesbians claim that lesbians can like men and still be a lesbian, they can date men and still be a lesbian, and even that men can identify as lesbians.

hell i’ve even seen them go as far as saying this shit about gay men (not bi men who also like women, gay men who only like men, bc that seems to confuse people for some reason) but the other way around saying that they can like women. and i’ve even seen them say that lesbians can date gay men. lord help me.

and fuck me, i’ve even seen them say shit about “mspec lesbians who aren’t attracted to women”…???? would rather shove a fork up my ass than have to think about this bs for much longer. its mostly on twitter (bc of course it is 😒) but still.

i’ve seen a lot of them say that “mspec” doesn’t equal liking men. which, sure. whatever. but then what the fuck is point of putting all this shit in front of ‘lesbian’???? like lesbianism includes everyone who is a non man who like other non men??? who the fuck else are you trying to include 💀

if you like men, you can’t be a lesbian. if you are a man, you, get this, can’t be a lesbian. simple as that.

it’s just a whole thing of them saying men can be involved in lesbianism, which they. can. not. it’s literally the whole fucking point of being a lesbian. and men do not, and will never be, apart of lesbianism. lesbian is like the only fucking identity that doesn’t include men in any fucking way and people (mspec lesbians) want to shit a brick over it when we say that.

[psychotic-tbh]

My new DNI.

Please, Do Not Interact If:

- You deny the existence and/or validity of mental illness and the struggles that relate to them, or are anti any disability/romanticize any disability without having it, or against accommodations

• This includes those against folks with PDs, and those who are obsessively anti-endo.

- You are looking for a diagnosis solely based on anything I post (I’m no professional, just a guy with experiences regarding mental health/neurodivergence.)

• (The only exception I see fit is if you're looking to relate to the experiences of others.)

- If you plan on bringing unprompted discourse to this blog—yes, even in asks/DMs.

- You’re an adult who flirts with minors or vice versa. Which reminds me…

- If you’re pro/complex contact for the big 3 paraphilias.

- If you're lesbophobic, homophobic, bi/pan/etc.-phobic, transphobic/enbyphobic, aro or acephobic, anti-mspec, overly involved in others' identities/you're or against those from these/ other similarly marginalized groups. This includes being aggressively transmed tbh.

- If you are here to attempt to convert anyone to another religious/political belief system.

- You use uncensored slurs on my blog. (Except reclaimed ones, as long as you're open about reclaiming them!)

- You post or openly interact with triggering content of any type.

• This includes s//h, pro-ed, unreality, suibaiting/folks who wish/threaten others with violence, and other types of content that likely trigger mental illness—exception: tagged ventcore accounts and accounts like them.

- If I’m on your DNI (I’m a mostly gay guy, don’t interact if you don’t want men near your blog.)

- You support violence of any type.

- Anti-the following (as a coping mechanism)…

• Tagged/Private comshipping that does NOT ship uncritically.

• Tagged Yandere blogs.

• Tagged Ventcore blogs.

• Age/Pet Regression.

- If you are anti recovery (anti-psych is fine!)

- If you’re aggressively against folks speaking about their oppression. (i.e. transmascs OR transfems — or enbys, lesbians/gays, mspec folk, etc. — Discussing non-oppressive solutions to their own struggles.

• TERFs are exempt from this inherently bc radical feminism is imo explicitly oppressive towards both men AND woman. Ironic.

- IF YOU ARE A RAD//QUEER/TRANS//-ID/X (ask if unsure.)

• I support recovery for those with paraphilias pertaining to lack of consent, and do not wish to have those who discourage harm reduction and healthy coping skills to be near my blog.

- NS//FW BLOGS.

- Anti-men radfems/bio-essentialists, or TERFs/SWERFs.

Note: I cannot enforce your DNI if you have minors, folks with “conflicting labels” (those of good faith identities are welcome!), men, endo systems, those of certain political/discourse views or others at my discretion who may or may not interact with your blog from here.

[mothwithapencil]

What's your issue with with mspec folks? Not trying to be mean or anything, I just barely understand what mspec means myself. And to me it's one of those things where I'm like Well people are allowed to have identities I don't understand.

No hate, I'm just trying to understand if this is a thing I should be advocating against or something.

Im not too interested in discourse around this, and people are of course allowed to identify however they want. Being mspec (meaning multisexual spectrum, like bi, pan, omni, etc) is fine. I disagree with combining that with labels like lesbian, not because the experience itself is invalid, but the wording and thought process is problematic. Here's my two cents, coming from a nonbinary lesbian. More under the cut because its a complex topic with a lot of angles

Using a label like "bi lesbian" as an example, heres some of the arguments I've seen for and against it:

1. "I'm attracted to women and nonbinary people, so I must be a a bisexual lesbian" → lesbianism includes anyone that isn't a man and isn't attracted to men, so that definition isn't really necessary

2. "I'm a bisexual woman attracted to everyone, but i have a strong preference for women, so that also makes me a lesbian" → having a lean towards a certain gender doesn't make you less bisexual, so its unnecessary again

3. "Im a biromantic homosexual enby, so im a bi lesbian" → this just comes down to lesbianism = not being a guy and not being into guys. Your identity is fine, but lesbian wouldn't really be the best or most fitting label

4. "My gender and sexuality is fluid and bisexual lesbian fits me best" → I don't know you or your experience. I do know that a label like "lesbian" isn't completely fluid and there may be better, more technically fitting labels. But you do you, I'm not here to tell you how to identify, its just a matter of labels I disagree with.

5. "I'm a bisexual lesbian because i like cis AND trans women!" → Oh man.

Furthermore, you'll see mspec people and lesbians/gays say the label is harmful because:

1. It implies that lesbians can be attracted to men (harmful because men have tried to push themselves in lesbian spaces for forever, or try to change their minds, and a bunch of other nasty shit. Lesbians just aren't attracted to men. Not every label is fluid), and the other way around for gay mlm/nblm

2. It indirectly pushes mspec people into a binary. "You're a bi woman with a fem preference, youre actually a lesbian. Youre a pan guy with a male lean, you're actually just gay" kind of stuff.

Again, anyone can identify how they want. I just disagree with the choice of labels. Im not going to police anyone about it. Everyone is going to have a slightly different definition, everyone's going to have different viewpoints. I have my viewpoints and i curate my online experience around it. There's many more talking points around this but this us just the main things i can bring up while typing this at 2am

[spawnofthedivine]

hii, we are the spawn of the stars! this is a sideblog, we follow from @starniirs

our pronouns.cc is here(link) . our tag system, which includes our emoji sign offs, is here(link) . and our member intros are here(link) !

dni/byf and collective info is below the cut!

our do not interact list includes: anti endogenics and anti willogenics. violent antishippers (supports harassment, sending threats, doxxing, etc.) and ALL proshippers ( both sides suck. we are neither, NOT "neutral" ). pro/neu/complex-contact harmful paraphilia. radqueer. radfem, terf, swerf, and all adjacent terms. truscum, transmed. anti neopronouns, anti xenogenders. anti mspec mono ( bi lesbian, pan gay, etc. ), anti "contradictory" identities. anti split attraction model. anti otherkin, anti divinekin, anti fictionkin, etc. anti selfship. anti educated self diagnosis. ( PRO ) ZIONISTS. if you are a politics only blog.

the above includes if you allow anything on our dni to be on your blog in a supportive or positive way, which also includes being "neutral" and having both sides on your blog(s).

TLDR: dont be an asshole and respect us and others! peace and love on planet earth!

PSST: we block immediately for the things listed above. if youre not sure if anything applies to you, feel free to interact without asking, we'll block ( without notifying you ) if we find anything that bothers us.

here are our boundaries/byf: this blog includes venting, which will be tagged with "vent cw" and "cw vent", but it isnt the only thing that we use the blog for! we NEED tone tags, please include when you think they are needed, or at least clarify when asked. we tend to overshare, but we try not to go overboard! we have autism and severe social anxiety, this impacts our social life and the way we interact with people very heavily, please be patient! we do not give warnings when we block blogs, even if we're mutuals. ask for instagram or discord if you want to talk, tumblr DMs arent very good.

ps: please do NOT use parts/one whole, or alters terms to refer to us!! makes us very very uncomfortable, thank you!!

okay, the giant paragraphs are over!

we are bodily 18 years old. we are a traumagenic DID system. we go by Grave and Eclipse, and use they/them pronouns when talking about the entire system/a group of sysmates ( they/them is an ok individual default, too! ). our simply plural is starspawn , feel free to add us!!

our agere/petre blog is @sourdivinity , our fandom blog is @xray4k , spytes selfship blog is @revenantlamb , and our shared nonhuman blog is @exaltedblight

[wander-wren]

other people elaborated in the tags but i want to do it in the reblogs proper bc as an aroascespec lesbian with a funky (unaligned, nonbinary) gender, my fellow genderpunk lesbians are very important to me

[cut because i accidentally got on my soapbox. i am not mad at anyone and this post isnt exactly wrong/bad, i just care a lot about this]

cryptid is right! mostly! that source is,,,uh. i'm not going to identity police the author, of course, but i'm not a fan of how they speak for all transmasc lesbians (which, to be very clear, i do not identify as transmasc. i am afab, though, and identify WITH transmascs, as in our plights and experiences are often similar).

first, the non-men definition of lesbianism is...better than alternatives, but not all the way there. there is no good definition of lesbianism (or gayness, in the other direction) that includes all lesbians and excludes all people who are Very Much Not Lesbians (and very much not available to lesbian attraction). i know this very well, because there is no label for gayness that excludes me (i am not available to gay men's attraction in any way shape or form) AND includes other unaligned nonbinary people who are gay. sexuality is fluid, gender is fluid, the boxes are made up.

gender is complex. you can be a man and a woman simultaneously, or either depending on the day. you can be something outside of both. you can be masc, you can be a man, and you can be a lesbian. it's not hurting anyone.

["oh, but what if a cis man calls himself a lesbian just so he can--" well then he's an asshole and a rapist and he would have been both regardless of the language he couched it in. this is the bathroom argument again, you know?]

you can do whatever you want forever.

second, trans men have, historically and now, sometimes identified as lesbians. something queer people as a whole have gotten away from is the fact that queerness is so much about community. many ""straight"" transmascs/trans men grow up in the lesbian community, believing they're just butch or gnc lesbians. if they discover differently later, do you expect all of them to be okay with leaving the queer community that raised them? do you expect all of them to be okay with abandoning a label that shaped their identity and brought them comfort?

do you expect them to be willing to label their attraction as no longer queer, all of a sudden? as straight?

many transmascs gladly will, but not all of them. remember what i said about identifying with transmascs, despite not being one of them? we have more in common than i do with transfems, or even with a lot of afab nonbinary people.

side note: this whole thing is very closely intertwined with mspec lesbians (bi/pan lesbians) who often have complicated genders, and/or partners with complicated genders, complicated feelings, tangled up label histories...all these things that are very normal. again, the label isn't hurting anyone. i'm not That type of mspec lesbian, but i am aroacespec so i kind of get their feelings on it.

[psst, also, bi lesbian as a term has been around since at least the 80s, it's not new, and it wouldnt be bad if it was invented last week either. just saying]

annnnnd this got long. i'm sorry. i just want to counteract that carrd link because i do think it's well-intentioned, but the "aren't transmasculine people male/male-aligned?" slide made me deeply uncomfortable.

[to be very extremely clear: i do not have a problem with the rest of the carrd, i think op explained everything else well, i just don't understand why they...went that route for that slide. ah well]

did you know there's an old term, one i havent seen used today outside of older butches discussing identity, called "masc-of-center"? it covers butches, transmascs, gnc people, nonbinary people...anyone whose center core of their identity is masculine in some fashion, or whose identity centers over masculinity. it's a really nice term and sometimes i consider adopting it for myself. and the only place ive seen it used recently is lesbian (or more broadly sapphic) circles.

again, i'm not mad at anyone, this is like, some higher level stuff to think about and it can be confusing if you've never thought about it and i so, so do not want to discourage anyone talking about it bc exclusionists are everywhere and they get especially weird about lesbians for some godforsaken reason. so i appreciate it, for real.

i just have a really big interest in queer history and i like infodumping and i'm a bit battle-hardened from too many twitter fights, back when i was on twitter, and i do take this a little bit personally bc my identities are adjacent to these ones and i feel closer to them than the wider lesbian community. cryptid, if you'd like me to chuck my reblog, just lmk and i'll do it.

Uhm, my apologies if this sounds disrespectful, but may I ask how a transmasc cat would be a lesbian?? Would they just be straight???

Transmasc people can be lesbian! I'm not very good at explaining this stuff so here's a link to a person explaining this far better than I can!

But basically

Lesbian = non-man who is attracted to non-men

Trans masculine = someone afab who's gender identity is in some way aligned with masculinity. The most well known version of this are trans men, but you do not have to identify as a man to be trans masc! (I myself identify as trans masc and nonbinary!)

Therefore transmasc lesbians are possible and there are many! They can actually be found throughout history and are a big part of the lesbian community!

Gender and Sexuality is a spectrum <3

[genderstarbucks]

So sick of finding the coolest blogs but then finding out they're anti mspec gays/lesbians/straights and anti lesboys/turigirls

It's even worse if they're anti-pan/ply/omni too

Like why do people care about other people's identities so much?

No one else's identity affects you, you're just insecure about your own identity

Someone identifying as a bi-lesbian or lesboy is not making the lesbian community look bad nor is it affecting someone else's identity as a lesbian

You cannot say you want biromantic homosexual, homoromantic bisexual, abrosexual, etc. rights and then be anti mspec gays/lesbians/straights

You are a hypocrite, the SAM and abrosexuality are the most common reasons why someone would be mspec gay/lesbian/straight

My identity cannot be explained by just the word "bisexual" and my identity cannot be explained by just the word "gay man" they're intertwined

I'm a homoromantic bisexual but I'm also abrosexual, and you're anti mspec monos? You're stupid

You cannot say you want trans and GNC rights and then be anti lesboys and turigirls

So many lesboys and turigirls identify like this because they're GNC, trans and still connected to the lesbian/gay man label, being cusper between a butch lesbian and a trans man, being cusper between a femme gay man and a trans woman and so many other reasons

Exclusionists are hypocrites

You cannot advocate for queer rights but only if you deem them queer enough or a "good" queer

If you advocate for queer rights, this inclues ALL queer people

Mspec monos, gaybians, lesboys, turigirls, amab transmascs, afab transfems and any other identity that you deem "contradictory" are included in queer rights

[watercolormogai]

[ Image ID: a rectangular flag with 9 equally-sized horizontal stripes in this order: navy blue, medium-dark red-pink, light red-pink, slightly dark sky blue, slightly pale light blue, slightly dark sky blue, light red-pink, medium-dark red-pink, and navy blue. ]

english language destroyer pride flag

for anyone who is told that they are "destroying the english lanaguage" , including but not limited to :

agab non-conforming folks (for example , being afab but iding as amab)

neopronoun users

xenogender , neogender , and other microlabel users

folks who use first / second person neopronouns

folks who use typing quirks

folks who coin new gender / orientation / system origin / identity in general terms that aren't officially recognized

folks who identify with contradicting labels such as mspec lesbians / gays / hets / aroaces / etc , straight lesbians / gays / bis / pans / etc , girlboys / boygirls , asexual allosexuals / aromantic alloromantics , afab transfems / amab transmascs / afab cismascs / amab cisfems , hypersexual asexuals / hyperromantic aromantics , cupiosexuals / cupioromantics , queer hets , pansexuals with gender preferences / omnisexuals without gender preferences , and more

folks who describe their identities with abstract concepts (like describing your sexuality as a painting)

folks who use words that aren't officially recognized in place of already recognized words (like using ever/evers or omen/omens instead of man/men or woman/women , or using joyfriend or foxfriend or solar etc instead of boyfriend / girlfriend / partner)

folks who are non-human (alterhuman , otherkin , otherhearted , therian , etc)

and more !

[tr3ns-d3ath-d3ity]

"LGBTQA+ is one of the most accepting communities, you're not being targeted by other queer people!! 😤​😡​"

Aight, time for the list of things related to my queer identity I've been yelled at for by other LGBTQA+ people (for context: I am an oriented aroace, trans, queer, and polyamorous dude):

・Being a trans man.

・Identifying as queer/calling myself queer.

・Saying that gay And mlm are two different things, just like wlw and lesbian are two different things

・Saying that trans women are women.

・Being attracted to men.

・Not being attracted to women and people on the genderqueer/nonbinary spectrum.

・Being oriented aroace.

・Not being monogamous.

・Talking about genuinely loving men.

・Being aspec and having npd (quote the girl who yelled at me for that: "your npd made you aroace, you're just to selfish to commit to genuine love lol.").

・Not being lesbian.

・Not being pan.

・Saying that I support mspec gays/lesbians because it’s not my place to judge other people’s identities just because I may not fully understand them.

・Saying mspec, the multi spectrum, or multiromantic/multisexual (to include ply, pan, omni, bi, neptunic, uranic, and every other pluralian sexuality) instead of just bi.

・Saying that nonbinary people can present themselves as masculine, androgynous, neutral, or feminine as they want, and still be nonbinary.

・Literally just. wearing green eyeshadow????? (quote the person who yelled at me for that: “t hat's a lesbian color, bro, you're literally appropriating lesbian culture by that.")

・Presenting masculine.

・Using he/him pronouns.

・Referring to the D-Slur as tThe D-Slur (y'all want me to say a slur I can't reclaim?????).

・Saying that the og polyamory flag (the blue-red-black one with the yellow pi symbol in the middle) looks neat.

・Not using any of the new polyamory flags because I prefer the blue-red-black + pi symbol one.

・Asking if there’s a word for nonbinary people who are exclusively/only attracted to other nonbinary people.

・Hating non-men who fetishize achillean relationships.

・Being specifically Half-Asian and queer.

・Writing books about exclusively queer men/non-women, mostly to cope with trauma stuff (apparently if your writing doesn't consist of a trillion sapphics, two gay fathers that get three seconds of screentime, and the occasionally non-human nonbinary person, it's automatically bad writing???? Okay damn. Sorry for focusing on my own experiences, I guess?).

・Not necessarily wanting to get married or have a romantic/sexual relationship.

・Shipping two characters in a queerplatonic way instead of a sexual/romantic one.

・Headcanoning a popular fandom character as aroace.

・Mentioning aroallo people.

・Saying that straight asexuals and straights aromantics are LGBTQA+ since that's what the A stands for.

・Not being T4T (I just wanna love men in peace fuck off with your "but cis men are horrible!! 🥺🤢😱 Limit yourself to trans men because I said so!! 😤🤬🤬"-Bullshit).

・Using someone’s neopronouns.

・Supporting xenogender people.

・Headcanoning a canonically lesbian character as trans female.

・Saying that I want more representation of achillean, aroace, trans, and asexual men in media.

・Asking asking someone who knew I used he/him pronouns to not refer to me with they/them (like, girlie, that’s called misgendering).

・Mentioning that women can be aroallo.

・Saying that people who don’t label their genders/sexualities can be LGBTQA+ too.

・Saying that two pan women I know in reallife dating each other aren’t lesbians because... they’re both pan?

・Mentioning that queer men should always be welcome in queer spaces.

・Saying that amab nonbinary folks can be lesbian.

・Wanting to go on T.

・Jokingly referring to my tiddies and my pussy as boys.

And last but not least,

・Saying "people", "y'all", "esteemed guests", or "everyone present" instead of "ladies and gentlemen".

I dunno, homie, I actually do feel a little targeted here.

[redtail-lol]

Non-BOP Mspec Gay, Veldian, and Lesbian Flags

Okay so. Mspec. It contains many identities. Not everyone identifies with one of the BOP (Bi, Omni, Pan, Poly) identities. SO. Here are some flags for Non-BOP mspec gays. Modeled after the Multisexual flag.

General Non-BOP Mspec Gay/Stellian

For anyone who considers themselves gay and mspec, but not bi, omni, pan, or poly. Lesbians, veldians, and enbians are included

Non-BOP Mspec Lesbian/Lunian

For lunians who consider themselves mspec and lesbian but not bi, omni, pan, or poly.

Non-BOP Mspec Veldian / Turian / Vincian / Cinthean / Solian

For solians who considers themselves veldian and mspec but not bi, omni, pan, or poly.

Reasons someone may not identify with the BOP terms include:

A focus on attraction to all genders

A focus on attraction to genders like and unlike your own

Just not liking any of the terms or feeling any resonation

The subtle differences and overlap in BOP labels are confusing for you and it's easier to identify with multisexual or some other more specific label