#because they’re not trying to write a story for queer people they’re writing a story about social norms being mapped onto random things

[gothic-chicanery]

Queer media I like in terms of like representation are deeply nuanced portrayals of identity that don’t sugarcoat anything but also offer hope and joy and love AND the worst people you’ve ever met who are on four levels of sexuality and gender in a way that does not fit into neat boxes doing war crimes to each other

[bicheetopuff]

Shounen was written for young boys to help them to get stronger and find a purpose in life, thats why most shounen series end up in marriage and having kids. Japan's birth rates are dropping each year and you guys want to see Deku and Bakugou end up together instead of Deku and Ochaco getting married and having kids? The stories and media we consume has to match the standards of real life you know.

Wow… this is a lot to unpack. A normal person would just ignore this, but lucky for you, I’m a bitch when I wanna be, and I happen to have time on my hands right now.

1) “Shonen was written for young boys to help them to get stronger and find a purpose in life”

Shonen is literally just a genre that directly translates to “young men.” But I think you’re trying to define the meaning of story telling as a whole, and even still, that’s a very narrow way to view an entire genre.

Stories meant for young men, most of the time, are meant for entertainment. You have anime’s like Dragon Ball and Naruto that’s almost nothing but action scene after action scene with very little thought provoking plot, because at the time, they were written for young boys. Like, they were aired on children’s channels back in the day, young boys. And while I won’t deny that there are definitely some good lessons in both (I can’t speak much because I never finished Naruto and only got about 20 episodes into dbz) they’re not meant to make a boy “stronger.” Lessons in early shonen were meant to broaden world views and increase emotional intelligence in a way that’s easy to understand. I guess it depends on your definition of what strength is, but I feel like strength is built from personal experiences, not watching an anime.

That being said though, the shonen/young boys genre has evolved over the years in the east and the west. Jujutsu Kaisen, Chainsaw Man, and Attack on Titan, are all shonens, with aot being also classified as a seinen. Those are most definitely not meant for the same age group that Dragon Ball and Naruto and One Piece were written for, given the amount of gore and heavier themes presented. Now, that’s not me looking down upon those stories at all, that’s me pointing out the obvious difference in tone, despite them being classified as the same.

As the genre evolved, authors approaches have also evolved. Literally read any interview from any modern shonen author and you’ll see how unserious they are when it comes to their own stories. Gege didn’t even like writing his story past a certain point and was just trying to push through it, because it wasn’t the story he originally wanted to write. Horikoshi has always said he just wanted to tell a story with no real goal towards the audience. Chainsaw Man is literally about a guy wanting to touch some boobs??? What about any of that screams, “I’m writing this to raise the new generation of young boys into strong husbands and fathers who know their purpose in life!”

Shonen as a whole has grown into a genre meant for young adults, with heavier themes and becoming increasingly more political. It’s not the same genre it used to be, and trying to say that it is, isn’t fair and is lowkey insulting towards authors with a more progressive world view.

2) “Japan’s birth rates are dropping each year and you guys want to see Deku and Bakugou get together instead of Deku and Ochaco getting married and having kids?”

Yeah… you’re right. I’d rather see a well written relationship come to fruition than watch another male author completely disrespect their female lead and ripping away her development. Why the fuck would I, an infertile acespec queer person, give a fuck about using two fictional characters to inspire young people to get married and start a nuclear family…

Also the birth rates are dropping all over the world, don’t pretend it’s only a Japanese issue. In Asia specifically, the birth rate is going down because women are tired of men’s shit and refuse to bare their children, and I’m actually happy as fuck that other parts of the world are following in their footsteps.

Women have been treated like shit in every corner of the world for so fucking long, and we all just dealt with it because that’s what we all thought we were supposed to do. It’s about fucking time we actually put our foots down and protest in the ways that we can, which is practicing our rights to autonomy. Why tf should we be responsible to bear the children of men most of us barely even like? And why is having children a mans responsibility, when women are the ones who have to carry the babies? Besides, why the fuck would anyone want to bring a kid into the shit show that is the world right now?

We’re over populated, have a really fucked up consumption and capitalism problem which causes us to depend on disgustingly unethical ways to find resources to appease everyone, there’s fucking flowers blooming in the arctics, there’s several genocides happening in the world as a result of neglectful and corrupt governments, a literal ethnic cleansing happening, and a carton of eggs costs 12 fucking dollars while the minimum wage stays at only $7.25 and the cost of living isn’t affordable unless you’re making nearly triple the minimum wage. I don’t even wanna be subjected to this shit and I’ll be damned before I subject a child to it against their will. Most of us can’t even afford to take care of ourselves without our parents help right now.

Also, what does a gay pairing have to do with the birth rate at all? Is Deku gonna carry that baby? Or are you seriously just narrowing down Ochaco to nothing more than his incubator? If Ochaco decides to have kids one day, why should it have to be with Deku? Oh and I hate to break it to you, but Ochaco becoming a mother isn’t going to solve any of the issues you presented.

3) “The stories and media we consume has to match the standards of real life you know”

…you’re talking about a story where one of the background characters has a god damn spray bottle for a head…

It’s fiction. Superhero media, at that. None of it has to follow the “rules” of real life, and most of the time, this kind of media does the exact opposite of following societal norms. And you thinking otherwise probably made Stan Lee roll in his grave.

Also, what’re your standards for real life? Because everyone’s standards are different. If yours is to get married and live in a traditional household with five kids and one source of income in this economy, then I think you’re the one being unrealistic here.

We shouldn’t burden children with adult responsibilities. Having kids and being a “good husband” isn’t something a child should have to think about until they’re older and only if they want to. Believe it or not, not everyone’s goal is to get married and produce offspring. We should be encouraging children to do the things they like doing without having to worry about adult shit yet. Not indoctrinating them into believing that the only way for them to be a successful adult, is if they have kids.

Using shonen and other conformative media that is dead set on maintaining the status quo to brainwash kids into wanting to be parents before they even know how babies are made, is weird. Don’t be weird, anon. You sound like one of those “alpha males” with a red pill podcast, convincing young men that crypto scams are a perfectly ethical way to make quick cash.

Literally just say you’re a misogynist, and move on. And get tf out of my inbox.

P.S.

You know gay men exist in real life, right? You’re talking as if gay men aren’t real. Not only are they real, but they also have nothing to do with the birth rate dropping. Find something else to be mad about.

[dinitride-art]

I’ve got no idea what this is about (yet) but I’m taking this as a fantastic excuse to talk about deaths in stranger things.

There are three main types of deaths seen: deserved, underserved, and eh.

The ‘eh’ category is the one that includes all the unnamed people who die. Unknown hero agent man would be an ‘eh’ death because we don’t know him and never really ended up caring about him. This specific death is used to traumatize Mike, Will, Jonathan and Argyle. Similarly, in season two when all those soldiers die because Will’s possessed, it’s used to raise stakes and traumatize Mike and Will. ‘Eh’ deaths mean less to adult characters because there’s a difference between someone dying in front of an adult and a child. Other notable ‘eh’ deaths include: Nancy and Jonathan’s bosses in the hospital, the agents El killed in season one, and a lot of the townspeople who died in season three to create the body of the Mind Flayer.

Undeserved deaths are the ones that hurt. They hurt the characters in the show and have lasting effects. Barb, Bob, and Eddie fit into this category. Their deaths were tragic and the impacts they have (and will have) on the characters they had relationships to never really stop. Nancy’s character will never go back to how she was when Barb was still alive. She does not take uncalculated risks and when someone is in danger she acts. Joyce moves out of Hawkins after Hopper ‘dies’ but that plan was originally flown by Bob. Mike’s character changes in season three. He was there when Bob died as well, and knew Bob well enough at this point for this to be impactful on his character. In season three he’s a dick to Hopper. This is probably a large reason as to why that is. Eddie’s death is going to affect almost everyone because he’s connected to almost everyone. Dustin, Steve, Robin, Nancy, Lucas, Mike, Erica, Max- literally everyone who was in Hawkins in season four knew Eddie.

Also in the underserved death category (but impactful and not shock value) are Patrick, Chrissy and Fred. We learn about them and their backstories- although Patrick’s is very minimal- and their deaths have major effects on our characters.

Last category: deserved deaths. This is the death that happens that we cheer for. That happens to the racist, abusive, manipulative, cruel fuckers that we never want to see alive again. In order: Billy, Brenner, Jason. Those are the three major ones. And while they do still have major impacts, their deaths can still be seen as a good thing from an objective standpoint. Billy died because he was racist and abusive. His death concerns Lucas and Max. We feel relief because they’re far safer now that he’s dead, but it’s more complex with Max because of her relationship to him. That was still her brother and she feels guilt over his death because he made her feel unsafe when she was alive. Even in death he torments her.

Brenner’s death is also really complicated. It concerns El and Henry. El watches him die in front of her, and we know, and she knows, that he’s an abusive dick who just wants to use her. But he still raised her, and that makes everything more complicated for how El’s going to deal with it and how her character may change.

Jason died because he was a representation of power. His ability to give a commanding speech full of absolute bullshit to bend large masses of people to his will indicates that. He’s the worst type of person. He doesn’t only harm people with his opinions, he actively seeks to make others do the same. He’s forced conformity and the evil leader at the core of the army he’s created. And he points a gun at Lucas. So he’s a dangerous person in terms of leadership, a fear mongering dick, and he’s racist. Not as explicitly written as Billy, but very explicitly racist in his actions towards Lucas. One of the most horrifying scenes in season four is Lucas and Jason’s fight because it’s a reflection of reality. And that’s why Jason died, because he’s a representation of a fucked up power structure that preys on minorities because it can.

One of my favourite things is that people don’t die without reason or with out consequences in this show. So, would Mike and Will die? Would Robin die?

No, I don’t think so. There’s no point to an underserved death that doesn’t have a follow through with one or many other main characters arcs and development. It’s too late in the game now to start killing off characters and working through their deaths later. Eddie’s death at the end of season four is the latest that an underserved death could be pushed- because they have all of season five to work through the effects of it. Killing of queer characters (and they’re main characters as well) at this point would be entirely to do with pushing the overall messaging of the show. And that message is not that queer people need to die.

In fact, since Mike jumped off that cliff in season one and El caught him. Since they found Will alive. Since Robin came out to Steve and made a friend not an enemy. Since they have written three dimensional queer characters, who not only are important to other characters- but are important to themselves. Their arcs are about them and their development and their experiences. All of their experiences. As being queer in a small town in the 80s and liking things that other people don’t and trying to fit in and not being able to.

Stranger Things is about choosing to live. And not letting the people around you die either. El is alive because Hopper took her in and kept her safe- because Mike took her in and kept her safe- because Joyce and Benny and Max and everyone she’s met who has cared about has tried to keep her safe. Same with Will. And same with every character who is important to the story.

They’re on track to writing a ‘love saves the world babeyyyyy’ story, and on technicality (for now) ‘gay love saves the world babeyyyyyyyyy’ story and killing off their queer characters doesn’t achieve that outcome. It actively contradicts it. (Gay love saves the world might very well be the point but we’re not there yet- but as Will and Robin do exist and are very loved by their friends, it’s also gay love saves the world)

stranger things is NOT killing the gays in 2024 be serious lmaooo

[ichayalovesyou]

Why Do Old-School TV Duos Have SUCH MLM Vibes?!

I think there’s something very specific about the formula and writing style of non-serialized/semi-serialized shows from the 60s to 80s that featured two grown men going on wacky dangerous adventures that makes my gay little literary analysis brain go absolutely off the wall bonkers. I’m trying to figure out why!

I’m writing this on my Trek blog because I don’t think this pattern in people actually shipping these types of relationships the way they do if fandom as we know it wasn’t born via TOS in syndication. That being said! I also think it has to do with the way these shows are designed that makes myself and others OBSESSED with a specific character dynamic that feels (to me) damn near impossible to replicate in modern television. In a way that’s more than just fandom, it’s in the way TV like this was written at the time!

Further explanation under the cut!

🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈

I think what it usually boils down to is this. There’s a charming protagonist whom without the series could not operate, frequently top billed or the title character! (See: Wild Wild West, Starsky & Hutch) BUT he doesn’t have anyone to play off of! So what do they do pretty much every single time? Give Mr. Idealized Vision of Time-Period Masculinity For Genre a second guy to rhyme with!

See but the other guy has to play opposite but parallel to our hypermasculine protagonist. So what frequently ends up happening is that in order to play off our “normal” guy, even though he’s also a white dude, is that he’s still somehow Other.

They’re always perfect for each other, and they always get into scenarios that would be written, shot and interpreted by conventional audiences as romantic IF either one of those characters were a woman! Especially at the time these shows were made in.

If the one is aggressive, the other is gentle. If the protagonist is violent, his counterpart is intellectual. If the one is stoic, the other is emotional. Which (while one size def doesn’t fit all) usually makes the second guy come off as much more queer-coded (and sometimes other minorities like neurodivergent/disabled etc) than the other because of the traits associated with masculinity vs gayness at the time! Our prime examples in these gifs are Spock, Hutch, Artemus, and also *BJ!

*(M*A*S*H is a bit of a unique case since the show flirts with queerness more openly in ways that people more into the series have explained better than me but I think it still fits the formula I’m discussing.)

Here’s the thing though right? We’ve got two best friends, and the show NEVER really feels right if one of them is missing unless the focus of the story is how A & B operate without each other while trying to find the other one. They stick with and rescue each other unfailingly in scenarios that might destroy a regular friendship.

Hell, there’s often stuff that would emotionally/physically destroy a regular person/character in modern media. But because it’s not serialized they always seem to pull through seemingly through the power of friendship alone or dealing with it off-screen! Emotional consequences? Yuck! (Unless it’s M*A*S*H or Starsky & Hutch, like I said, not monolithic)

Here’s the thing that some people might say throws a wrench into the interpretation I’m discussing. What about the absolutely non-stop parade of conventionally attractive women the main protagonist (and less frequently the supporting man) goes through?

I would reply: how many of those female characters actually emotionally impact our protagonists as characters long term?

The answer is of course, because it’s NOT serialized, almost none! Kirk can watch Edith Keeler get killed by a car accident and still be making eyes at Spock the next episode. Hawkeye can have a “life changing” romance with a Vietnamese humanitarian woman, then share a blanket with BJ next episode like she never existed!

The Doylist explanation of course is not just the fact it wasn’t serialized but also just, constant, blatant 20th century sexism. Which SUCKS!!! As well as not wanting a long term love interest to throw off the character dynamic of our duderagonists. It’s the 20th century tv equivalent of bros before hoes.

However the Watsonian explanation always seems to result in no love interest EVER being more important than what the two protagonists have no matter whether you think they’re queer or not. No attractive woman could make our reputed babe-hound protagonist abandon his buddy. There’s no earnest romance our more queer-coded supporting man doesn’t end (or get ended for him) often for the protagonist’s sake.

Now some of these women are incredibly well written and straight up GOOD matches for our guys. So why wouldn’t they get involved in something long term UNLESS!! They were in love with each other the WHOLE time?

What if protagonist (frequently the babe hound) doesnt know he’s queer, or knows but doesn’t know he’s in love with his bestie, or any number of similar fruity explanations? The supporting man also runs into this explanation but people tend to believe he’s already aware that he’s queer but either also doesn’t know he’s in love or is keeping it to himself because time-period homophobia and/or thinking (probably not unreasonably) that babe hound is straight?

Between the inherent closeness of being narrative foils. The regularly scheduled life or death drama creating sometimes insanely romantic (in the narrative if not a literal sense) drama between the two. The revolving door of weekly women they never seem to get attached to enough to leave one another. The non-serialized nature resulting in sparse personal information/history about the protagonists as a result.

I think between the very NATURE of the way tv shows were written at the time. Plus the way fandom was shaped by a dynamic that has rippled through how media works and is interpreted by fans for decades upon decades. It’s not hard to imagine getting really emotionally invested in the possibility of the protagonists being in love is a fantastic way to enjoy the media!

In conclusion, it’s really fun and easy to go “these bitches gay! Good for them good for them!”

[dubiousculturalartifact]

Obviously I’ve been queerbaited before, like, a genuinely incalculable number of times, and maybe thinking Buddie might actually go canon is a ‘fool me sixteen times, shame on me’ scenario, but I think one big thing that’s keeping my hope alive is this thought: If you genuinely believe that Buddie isn’t going to go canon, 100% zero possibility and absolutely no intention of trying... Then you also have to believe the people who create the show we’re all fans of are purposefully cruel dicks. 

Because we have SEEN what it looks like when the showrunner of 911 knows there is no possibility of it happening, has no plans of it, and is generally trying to avoid accusations of queerbaiting.

It looks like S5 & S6. Little bits here and there, the odd important scene to throw breadcrumbs… but a lot of keeping the two characters apart, being circumspect in interviews, PR shut downs on the actors, etc. The show has proven they are capable and willing to exactly that!

So indulge me, and imagine for a second. They had the conversation with the new network, and the execs told them they wanted to continue with the status quo, to write as if Buddie is never going to go canon, BUT were willing to bend so far as to make one of them queer, to keep the fans happy.

What would that look like?

I don't know, call me foolish.... But I think it would look like keeping the same dynamic from The Drought Seasons. Having them be friends and important to each other but still fairly disconnected, not having as much screen-time, etc, It would look like having Buck’s coming out arc be a SEPARATE, individual narrative. If they just wanted to write Tommy and Buck, and that's it, they could have done things differently.

There are just so many conceivable ways they could have written Buck’s coming out arc, to almost completely separate it from Eddie and have it be made clear, in no uncertain terms, that Buck is bi but that doesn’t mean he cares about Eddie like that, that Eddie is a hetero McHetero.

Buck’s coming out arc could have included him being jealous because he’s suddenly faced with Tommy in the flesh and is insecure about how he was technically ‘Tommy’s replacement’ at the 911, with Eddie not relevant to it at all, or have Maddie and Chimney be the ones to interrupt The Date, or literally any other scenario that didn’t make it all about Eddie. 

They could have had one short scene where Eddie and Buck talk about it, and then the rest would be like, Buck talking to Hen about being queer, Buck interacting just with Tommy and getting to know him, Buck doing a research binge about bisexuality and info-dumping at an inappropriate time during a call, etc etc etc.

That’s how you tell that story and only be writing it for the proverbial ‘general audience’.

But they didn't. They purposefully reversed direction. They chose for Buck’s coming out arc to... highlight his nigh-feral jealousy over Eddie forming a homosocial bond with another guy, having said guy repeat with genuine surprise and shock that it was him and not Eddie that Buck was interested in, have Eddie interrupt their date, have Buck be more worried about lying to Eddie than the fact that he’s queer at all, have Maddie say what she did to Buck about telling Eddie in specifically ambiguous terms…

In a season that also included the Fire Extinguisher Incident, and Buck saying he ‘wishes he could help’ with Eddie’s sexual frustration, and a big increase in social media engagement, and having Buck being Eddie’s rock in the last few episodes while he had a bizarrely platonic affair with his dead wife's doppleganger…

If they did that while KNOWING the plan was actually for Buck/Tommy endgame and Eddie riding off in the sunset with a hot female firefighter who has a cool motorcycle or whatever the fuck, or them both dying in a freak car-washing accident, or….

If they GENUINELY planned that? If the entire Buck jealousy plotline was intended to be nothing more than a deliberate queerbait-and-switch? Then they’re fucking assholes, sorry. They would have to know full well exactly what they were doing, how many people’s hopes and emotional investment they were toying with... If they were actually planning to keep dragging it along for seasons more of baiting and dangling things in front of us, while knowing categorically that they had no plans to deliver? That would be genuinely GOD TIER levels of specific, intentional queerbaiting.

Which could be the case! I won't deny that. Shows have done it before, plenty of times. Tim et al could be callous bastards deliberately instructing the actors to wink it up in interviews and share suggestive Tiktoks, and writing Buck’s coming out arc as being entirely focused around Eddie and throwing out hints... All while laughing behind Buddie fans' backs about our gullibility, how we’re keeping the show trending on the force of our delusions, etc. Maybe that's it! Maybe they just genuinely enjoying fucking with people. Or maybe they were just shitty enough writers that they didn't know what they were doing, and it was all a total accident, somehow, the proverbial monkeys pounding at keyboards and accidentally spelling out B U D D I...

But you know what? Call it naive, but I prefer to think they’re not huge assholes, or hugely incompetent.

That there might actually be a point to all this, somewhere down the line.

I guess we'll find out.

[naneun-no]

From my drafts so it’s late but:

Today’s delulu thought is that Standing Next to You has too many lyrical coincidences to not be about Jimin.

🫣 I SAID IT WAS DELUSIONAL OKAY

You are free to disagree. You probably should 🤣

I mean we know it wasn’t written by Jung Kook but obviously the version he recorded was arranged with and for JK, and “leave your body golden” can’t be a coincidence right? Like it’s the whole ass album name, plus a word that carries connotations of JK himself, which the ppl who worked with him on Seven must have known.

So if that wasn’t a coincidence… then what about:

1. “How we left and right is something we control” — a callback to both Left and Right by CP feat JK, but also a nod to Butter, a massive BTS hit and a song that he performs alongside his boyfie bestie JM.

2. “When it’s deep like DNA, something they can’t take away” — a callback to another massive BTS hit, interesting. And *delulu warning* also reminds me of JM and JK’s extreme similarities that they themselves have referred to before?? They’re wired the same, they have the same sense of humor, they live and breathe for the same shit and even though they have some very key differences, they really do seem like twin flames (even if you just see it as platonic). They are similar in ways that seem braided into the fibers of their being. Like, in their DNA 🧬 some may say. *delulu warning #2* I’m also reminded of Jimin’s Letter lyrics: “After all this time has passed will we still be the same? Just like we were when we first met.”

Also, “something they can’t take away” is an interesting turn of phrase… more on that later.

3. Okay the real meaty part:

Screaming I’ll testify that we'll survive the test of time, they can't deny our love. They can't divide us, we'll survive the test of time I promise I'll be right here

[I seriously can’t believe how closeted-couple-coded this song is]

First off, again with the Letter lyrics mirrored here with the “test of time.” Then it’s got all this drama about being ripped apart and how it won’t happen and how they’ll be next to each other no matter what and that they have “something they can’t take away.”

Not only does all that line up with other Letter lyrics, but it is so goddamn dramatic and for what?

Be for real, what straight couple in this day and age would have this much working against them?? The only possible explanations are: 1) within the fantasy world of a song I suppose this could be some sort of Romeo and Juliet/West Side Story motif, and to be fair the music video did have a kind of rival gang/crime family look to it? Sort of? With the men fighting below the stage? Idk. Or it could be 2) the fact that idols do in fact often have to hide even their straight relationships, which is wild to me. But I know it’s a thing, so. I suppose there’s that. JK doesn’t seem the type though honestly. I think he’d be even more open about it than V.

On the other hand, the lyrics seem SO fit for a couple who are a) queer, b) closeted, c) currently in/about to be in a legislatively homophobic military and country (am I saying that right? Lol) and d) internationally famous pop idols in the SAME BAND who are both widely regarded as heterosexual sex symbols and would be shunned by many people in their homeland AND internationally if their queerness were to be revealed, much less if they were truly an item and THAT news broke.

Whew. That was a lot but like… that would be a real example of a relationship that would be VERY threatened by outside forces plotting against them and trying to separate them. Not JK and a hot blonde model, not him and a Korean actress, not basically any other scenario but a queer relationship.

Idk I know he didn’t write it but like ??? What the hell is that theme? I’m dying to get inside the mind of the people who DID write it, because are they or are they jikookers at this point like?!

4. Just for fun I’ll also point out the “leave your body golden like the sun and moon” 😏 like. Okay. At this point the songwriters are watching Jikook compilations, drooling over @slaaverin edits like convince me they’re not. CONVINCE ME.

5. “Deeper than the rain”?! “The pain”?! Alright I’m not even serious at this point but ??? Rainy day fight 🌧️?!?! 🤣🤣

6. “Standing next to you” oh you mean like… for 18 months? In a companion enlistment program? Like that?

Alright alright I’m done but you get my point. What even is this song if not an anthem of jikookery?! It’s more on-the-nose than Letter, more sneaky than Still With You. It wasn’t written by JK but at this point I’m calling that the songwriters are as delulu as me.

Hope y’all are well. If you made it to the end of this thank you for donning your tinfoil hat with me and I hope you at least got a giggle.

✌️

[ugly-anarchist]

Alright, anon, I'm not posting your messages in 3 different posts so lets just break this down here

[Indented text is the anon message. This is going to be long as hell]

butch women and trans men are not oppressed for being masculine, they’re oppressed for being gender nonconforming females (not saying trans men are women, just stating how a patriarchal society sees them).

So, firstly, the thing I'm talking about isn't actually oppression on a systemic level. You're talking about how non-queer society sees us, I'm talking about how other queer people treat us. Butch lesbians have been pushed out of sapphic spaces for a loooong time. Butch lesbians are seen as scary, mean, violent, and inherently abusive within queer spaces. Which stems from a demonization of masculinity. I should know this. I identified as a butch bisexual sapphic for years. I know what this feels like. I was once told that people with "high T levels" are more likely to be abusive, which includes me because I'm intersex and have naturally high T.

Secondly, maybe don't try to define trans men's oppression for them? I'm not a trans guy either but I experience a lot of the same bullshit from society that they do and it's not just "being a gender non-conforming female" it's a lot more complex than that. And also just, in general, a very weird way to say it.

i’ve never heard a masc cis gay man complain about being welcome or not in queer spaces, to the point in which feminine cis gay men have complained about them writing “no sissies, masc4masc” in their bio on dating apps.

I have. I've heard plenty of stories about masc gay men and specifically bi men in queer spaces feeling very unwelcome because they were being treated like a threat. And some gay men being transphobic (because s*ssy is a transmisogynistic slur in this case) or having a preference for other mascs also isn't indicative of mascs being treated well?

Like I know a lot of butch4butches that have that preference specifically because they feel unwelcome or are treated badly by femmes. I don't know how you personally not hearing about it or what some people put on their dating profile proves here.

Also your complete lack of acknowledgement of bi men in this makes me doubt even more that your perspective on this is a valid one because that tells me you either don't know any bi men or you ignore them to such an extent that you forgot they existed.

claiming misandry or anti-masculinity exists is the same as saying that heterophobia exists because straight trans people are treated like shit.

Never said that misandry on its own exists, don't know where you got that.

People are treated like shit based on the fact that they are masc all the time. That is a thing that happens. I have experienced it, I've heard so many stories from other queer people who experience it. I don't know how saying "no you don't, I'm gonna tell you what you really experience" is at all an alright thing to do.

it’s not heterophobia, it’s transphobia/homophobia. in the same way that masc afab people being treated terribly is misogyny and homophobia, and has literally zero to do with misandry/“anti-masculinity”. if anti-masculinity or misandry existed, even straight cis heterosexual men would suffer from it.

So, like, I'm talking about anti-masculinity in the queer community. "If this is true here then it must be true with this different thing" is a really bad argument because you could use that to invalidate anything that is true.

For example: The definition of racism is "prejudice based on race" which technically that definition doesn't exclude white people but you don't see anyone arguing "if racism existed, even white people would suffer from it" or trying to say it's not really about race just to exclude white people. Like, obviously you can't be racist to white people and anyone who claims you can be is just making a bad-faith argument. I am looking pointedly at you when I say that, btw.

also, a lot of radfems are gender nonconforming women/butches and literally campaign for women to drop conformity to the patriarchal concept of femininity. gender critical conservatives are not radical feminists and y’all need to stop conflating the two because no matter what jk rowling says, in practice and in theory, they have very little to do with one another (and hate each other, at that).

There's actually two sides of the "radfem" spectrum and they're both just as bad. There's the ones who hate gender non-conforming women, specifically the ones who go on HRT, and claim they're gender traitors. And then there's the ones which you describe who usually shame women for liking feminine things. Both their beliefs usually go against the whole purpose of gender-nonconformity which is to be yourself and do what makes you happy, society be damned. People who are truly GNC don't judge others for presenting in a way that is typically considered "conforming" to their gender and don't campaign for other people to be like them?

Also... Are you defending radical feminism? Are you a radfem? Because that would make a whole lotta sense.

and one last thing,

Just so you know, this is how this anon began the final message. It is the longest one. Really said "one last thing" then sent me a whole 4 paragraphs.

please stop acting like “people who are attracted to men” are demonized in queer spaces, what a slap in the face to lesbians. the moment they have a little visibility y’all claim they are privileged and somehow bossing around/discriminating against gay men.

Never said that lesbians were the oppressor in this situation. There is no oppressor, it's fully lateral mistreatment. And like.. it's not about just gay men.

Bi women have been pushed out of and demonized within sapphic spaces for decades, actually. I should know. Because again. I'm a bi sapphic. We are seen as a range of things. Pretenders, abusers, invaders, the source of lesbian oppression, tricksters that try to force lesbians to fuck men, or just disgusting. Traitors. Again.

My own mother knows this because before she married my dad she was in sapphic spaces in the 90s. From her personal accounts, bi women were seen as the enemy and a lot of lesbians... weren't even lesbians. They were political lesbians. Women who rejected their attraction to men and only dated other women. Some of them were even straight. And they were considered more of lesbians than bi women were.

Even in the modern age, bi women are expected to shit on their own sexuality. They are expected to say "ew I hate that I like men" and never date or fuck a man to be accepted in queer spaces. Again, I know this because I'M LITERALLY BI.

gay men are literally the face of this community and continually disrespect sapphic/lesbians (see the billie lyric controversy, see the way they’re treating chappel roan, see the way they keep calling women b*tches with no regards on whether we like it or not, see the way they keep fraternizing with straight women that would literally cower in fear if they saw a butch lesbian in real life).

Yeah so misogynistic gay men are in fact a problem but I'm not talking about strictly gay men. I'm talking about the way masculine perceived traits are demonized within queer circles. Come on. I'm pretty sure cis gay men were barely talked about in my original post, why are you fixating on this so hard?

just because somebody who has literally no power over gay men whatsoever and has been traumatized by men her whole life airs out her frustration with her literal lifelong oppressors via tweet or tumblr post, doesn’t mean that suddenly the patriarchy doesn’t exist anymore and has not armed lesbians especially for the past thousands of years.

So I'm talking about the people telling me I'm inherently abusive or more likely to assault people based on the fact that I have high T levels... I'm not talking about people venting about their abuse at the hands of men.

I also never said the patriarchy doesn't exist... I feel like this message isn't about me anyone.

stop painting them as the mean bosses of the community when actually they are a very small, demonized minority who suffers every day at the hands of anyone in the world who likes men (straight women, gay men, even bi women like me).

Fascinating... So... I'm not doing that. Lesbians are not the "mean bosses" of the community. Some are just treating random people shitty for perceived masculine traits with no bearing on truth or reality. A lot of them aren't even lesbians. Like I never said this was a specifically lesbian issue. I said there was a problem in the community in general. So like... all people... not just lesbians.

Also, genuine question: How are you oppressing lesbians for being bi?

it’s such a warped, harmful view and a big stereotype, at that (lesbians are man-haters who hate women’s boyfriends!! what a progressive statement!! never has it been said before, and especially not by homophobic conservatives).

I mean I just didn't say that. I don't know how to respond to this because I just straight up didn't say that.

I just... This isn't about me anymore is it?

Who hurt you?

have some respect for once, a lesbian literally threw the first brick at Stonewall.

So... uh... we don't actually know for 100% certain who threw the first brick. Some say it was Marsha P. Johnson. Some say it was "gay street kids". Even if it was a lesbian... so? Just because one lesbian did a good thing doesn't mean other lesbians are incapable of being dicks to other people?

Idk, man, I never said that lesbians were the source of all evil. I just made a post about my own personal experiences and the experiences of people I know and have seen being talked about. I'm a bi, intersex, non-binary sapphic. I get shit on for the things that people perceive as masculine traits that I have and the fact that I like men. This happens a lot.

I don't know why me saying "hey please stop implying that there is something in my blood that makes me inherently abusive" is lesbophobic. Why is this about lesbians, actually? You made it about lesbians. Why are you using lesbians, a group you've stated you're not a part of, as a gotcha against me? Why are you using lesbians to silence me about my own experiences? Why is that okay?

[olderthannetfic]

Hi I'm sorry for the incoming rant but I'm so frustrated and I need somewhere safe to yell. This is insanely long so I 100% understand if no one wants to read all this.

It’s so fucking ironic that people are trying to make publishing more friendly towards queers/women/POC/disabled people/etc. but at the same time they’re turning publishing into a fucking minefield of discourse.

I'm an autistic, bisexual woman with multiple mental illnesses and a learning disability and I'm absolutely terrified to publish anything.

Everyone keeps going “We love books by minorities! Hashtag own voices! We love to support minorities and their stories! Even if you’re not a minority, we love to see authors making characters that are! :)”

But they certainly don't act like it.

They see people like Amélie Wen Zhao or Tess Sharpe or Isabel Fall get harassed relentlessly and they go, “Well if people dogpile someone over something it was obviously because that person did something Bad And Wrong™ so if you’re a Good Person™ the twitter masses won’t have to punish you :)” except in reality that’s not at all what happens.

If your experience is not generic enough to fit every single person in a group, you’re obviously writing an unrealistic stereotype! How dare you write about your personal experiences as a mixed race Indian if not everyone can relate to it? What about the Indians who grew up in India!? You’re erasing their experiences!

You have to out yourself to prove that you’re one of the Correct People™ who’s allowed to write that experience. Oh, you’re writing a trans character? Please describe your gender, in detail, so we can know whether or not you’re Allowed or if you’re an Outsider who we need to punish. Oh, you can’t come out, because you might be killed or disowned? Well, no #OwnVoices clout for you, we don’t want your book.

Your character needs to be a Good Minority™. They cannot be angry or violent or rude. If they are, you’re clearly saying that all of those minorities are angry and violent and rude and not just that one character.

There are four additional rules you absolutely must follow at all times to prevent harassment, and all of them contradict each other:

If you’re not [minority], you need to have [minority] in your stories, because they exist and it’s bad if all your characters are [not minority].

If you’re not [minority], you cannot have [minority] in your stories, because you’re not [minority] and clearly, you’ll never be able to understand how [minority] thinks and acts because you’re not them.

If you’re not [minority] you can still have them in your stories, but they can’t experience any discrimination at all, or talk about their culture or experiences with being [minority] because that’s not your story to tell and you’re profiting off of their trauma. No, you’re not allowed to do this even if you hire ten sensitivity readers that confirm these experiences are realistic and correct.

If you’re not [minority] you can still have them in your stories, but you need to show their experience with discrimination, and have them talk about their culture or experiences with being [minority] because if you don’t, then you’re basically just taking [non minority] and pretending they’re [minority].

Also, there’s an additional surprise bonus rule: Sometimes people will just want to destroy you for no reason, so watch out!

They’ll take things from your story, remove them from their context and then present them as the most horrific, problematic thing possible in order to create a hate mob.

Sometimes, though, they don’t even know what they’re talking about. People who are not part of a minority group (or not the one relevant) will see something, go, “Omg? Problematic?” and post it on Twitter so they can say, “Um guys wtf is this shit? Are you fr? Can we talk about this?”

And the worst and most horrifying part, people will blame YOU for the harassment campaign!

I’ve literally seen people say, “Well if someone calls you out on Twitter you should admit you did something wrong, apologize, and tell them you’ll do better :)” as if that’s not the most insane, victim blamey shit.

Like, I cannot fathom seeing a marginalized author get torn apart by a mob, get sent horrific death threats, and have their career and life ruined, only to say, “Okay but they must have done something Problematic. Have they tried publicly flagellating themselves to appease the people who are threatening to break into their house and kill them?”

People just sweep it under the rug and pretend that it’s not a big deal, and say, “Twitter’s not real, it doesn’t matter!” as if thousands of people harassing you and sending you threats isn’t massively damaging to someone’s mental health. Like, this is the kind of shit people kill themselves over, and it's apparently no big deal because "Twitter's not real"? What?

Writing is supposed to be fucking fun! Showing your beloved story and characters and work to the world is supposed to be enjoyable!

But instead of writing my story and just enjoying the process and adoring my characters, I’m sitting here, absolutely terrified, trying to make sure I give people the least amount of ammunition to destroy my life as possible.

One of the main characters in my story is vaguely based on me. I love her with all my heart, I think about her all the time, I want people to love her just as much as I do.

But instead of having fun writing about her, I’m waking up in the middle of the night, heart pounding, thinking to myself, what if she’s too problematic?

Will people get upset with her saying the word “cunt” or bathing naked with men (and thus having her tatas out) and accuse me of being sexist or catering to the male gaze or not being a Good Amazing Feminist™? Will people call her a pick me?

Will people get upset with her being bisexual, but ending up in a “straight” relationship with the male character? They have a five year age gap, is that too much? Will people think he’s a predator or abusive? Is their relationship toxic?

Will people think he’s a creep for flirting with her and getting into her personal space and telling sexual jokes, even though that’s how I want someone to flirt with me?

What if people think she’s not autistic enough? Will people get mad that she’s ~glorifying violence~ for not becoming a pacifist and admitting that violence is bad and yucky at the end of the story?

I need to make sure she spends ten paragraphs explaining exactly why she works as an assassin. I need to sit cross-legged and whip my head around like Dr. Strange in that Avenger’s movie so I can imagine Every Possible Discourse Outcome™ and make sure she debunks everything people could call problematic.

I need to change that. I need to remove that. I need to make her sanitized and good enough so that I'll be safe.

And then repeat this thought process, with every other minority character in my story (and there are a lot).

--

Things are bad, but if you stay off of book twitter and do not write YA, you're a lot less likely to face this level of drama. There are always exceptions though, like Fall.

[mayabruhbruh]

What do you think of the possibility of Will and Chance happening? I feel like it would be really poor writing tbh but I feel like they will give Will a different love interest because they’ll try to make all of the audience „happy“ But that would just truly not align with the writing so far I feel like.

Love your analyses btw<3

THANK YOUU! That's so kind :) And great ask! This is definitely a topic that the ST fandom needs to discuss.

The default question when people have little to no hope in Byler is, well, who the hell is Will going to end up with? Because it’s become increasingly evident that they’re trying to set him up for a romance. The “im not gonna fall in love”, the “it’s not my fault you don’t like girls”, even the gif shown above. It all can be interpreted to mean that Will is going to find his person soon.

So... to be completely honest, I had no idea who Chance was until this ask popped up and I had to look him up💀. It’s been a while since I’ve been on here, so I’m a little rusty on the deep lore lmao. So, in the off chance that others might also be confused, here’s a (rare) gif of him I found.

I think that’s him with the Hawkins cap on the right. Correct me if I’m wrong.

I’m not sure where the rumors that this guy was going to become a bigger part of the show came from, but that seems highly unlikely to me. I feel like they would have either hinted at it in the fourth season (like how they’re giving Patrick here quite a sizeable role so that he’ll be memorable to us later when he gets vecnafied) or they would have announced him as a more prominent character already like how they did for s5 with Holly, that one new kid character, and also how they did Amybeth for s4. Idk, maybe it’s unreasonable to think they would have to do that, but it feels quite too out-of-the-blue. Especially for a character that would take on the role of becoming our central character’s love interest, which is a BIG DEAL. Especially if it’s queer lol.

Secondly, I firmly believe that it would be a disservice to Will’s own desires to meet someone new.

Will said this explicitly in the van scene, and as of now, we’re still under the impression that Mike is his person. Forget about Mike’s issues and feelings for a second, and think about what Will is saying here. He feels like a mistake for being different, but Mike makes him feel like he’s not a mistake at all, that he’s better for being different. Mike gives him courage to fight on. Fuck. Tbh, it makes me wonder how long he’d felt this way. As a byler, you might be inclined to think his feelings have been on for forever, but narratively, he could have easily just realized his own feelings very recently, most likely sometime between season 3 and 4. It doesn’t mean the feelings weren’t there before, but realistically neither Will nor the general audience were aware of it before now.

Moving on.

Has anyone heard of the rule of Chekhov’s gun? It’s an incredibly clever and widely-used tool in screenwriting and storytelling in general that helps to clue the watchers in for what’s to come next.

Think of Lucas’ wrist rocket in season 1. When they introduced it as a flimsy-looking, no-good weapon that he’d put too much pride in at first, it gives us a good laugh and we move on. But really, it very meticulously set us up to subconsciously anticipate to see it again later. That’s what Chekhov’s gun is all about. Set-ups, foreshadowing, hidden treasures.

Another great example would be the painting reveal of s4. Obviously, after finding out that Will was painting something, bylers immediately figured it was for Mike and BEGGED and HOPED and PLEADED that we’d be able to finally see it, but to the general audience it was just another something that they’d have to pick apart and realize was actually of importance as the season progressed. (It’s also a good way of showing that the writers are fully capable of engrossing the entire fan base and general audience in his and Mike’s story. Just knowing Will had painted something and that it was for Mike created this sense of PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IT IS AND WJATS GOING ON and whatnot that watchers are simply so susceptible to it’s insane.)

Okay, back to the van scene. Will’s confession.

Now, I’m not saying that the writers intentionally used this foreshadowing tool for us to find and understand immediately. There are plenty, plenty of instances where writers use Chekhov’s gun principle and it flies over peoples heads purposefully. What I’m trying to say is that, thematically and narratively, they would never have introduced Wills feelings for Mike if not for it to have importance to the story, or for nothing to happen with it at all. It’s a set up. And a maddeningly good one, at that. Because queer stories already do tend to fly over people’s heads, and also because there’s the added drama between Mike and Eleven that makes it seem quite impossible for any of these feelings to be addressed in the midst of such emotional chaos. But whatever. I think I’m rambling.

Basically, whether they end up together or not, whether Mike reciprocates these feelings, Will is forever established to be in love with Mike. The confession was simply too grand and emotional and earnest for him to just switch up abruptly next season when he meets someone new that he might have a better chance with. Even if there were to be a whole new arc for him where he learns to let go of Mike or something crappy like that, it would be terrible writing on their end and poor use of a well-set-up Chekhov’s gun reference. It would be like introducing the gun in the display case in scene one, then two scenes later just tucking it away into a storage closet for the remainder of the story. Like… what?

And plus, it’s HIGHLY unlikely that Will would end up with that sort of storyline next season when he’s literally WITH Mike for presumably a majority of the time (based on the set pics so far).

So that’s my debunking of the Chance rumors :) and I didn’t even get to mention how incompatible they’d be just naturally as characters. Chance, a Jason-following jock that hates Dungeons and Dragons, fantasy and nerdy things, and willingly assisted in beating up the Hellfire Club when they were trying to find Eddie. What about that at all screams Will’s type? And if you’re thinking “unconventional couple enemies to lovers”, just don’t. This isn’t a rom-com, especially for a queer plot line lol. I think it’s safe to say there’s no “chance”😉 that they will ever happen. And either way, it’d be a bummer if they did. Cus it would just be Will defeatedly settling for someone that isn’t Mike.

UGH! It makes me sad that the one thing that is firmly being teased by the writers (Will’s love playing a major role in the plot to come) is constantly being questioned and framed as different questions. “Will Mike reciprocate?” “Does this mean Mike and Eleven break up?” “Who will end up with who?” SHHH Frankly, to me this is already a win. It’s become obvious that Will having feelings for him will come up again soon, and the rest of the evidence that accounts for Mike’s end already speaks for itself, so I prefer to just sit back and watch it all unfold.

Again, thanks so much for the ask!! This was so fun to dissect and feel free to keep sending questions into my inbox. It might take me a second to post my response but I’m determined to get through all of them. Love you guys!! <3

[h-worksrambles]

Ok, so Episode Aigis dropped, they changed some dialogue and now people are pissed and saying P3 Reload ruined The Answer.

If you want my TLDR, Atlus’ changes (both writing and mechanical) for the DLC are overall small, some good some bad, but they’re ultimately band aids that fail to address the much wider flaws of The Answer as a story.

I think there’s a genuine intent to try and better get across the character’s motivations. And for some characters it works well. I think the new dialogue for Mitsuru is a genuine improvement. I’ve seen some criticise it for focusing more on Mituru’s thoughts towards the protagonist then her (rather queer coded) loyalty to Yukari. But as much as I love my SEES lesbians, I genuinely think giving Mitsuru multiple reasons to side with Yukari rather than just blind loyalty, is much more in character for her than FES’ approach (where she comes across uncharacteristically stupid). But I think by only changing minutia like this it just ends up highlighting the bigger problem.

A lot of people hyper focus on Yukari’s role and talk about how irrational she is here. And now you’ve got people complaining that Reload softens and sanitises her character and makes her storyline weaker. But I feel it’s a case of identifying something doesn’t work but being incorrect as to why.

The thing about the SEES group fight is that it’s fundamentally a really poorly done conflict. It sucked in FES and it sucks here too. There’s not enough meaningful disagreement between the group to make it feel earned. The only one acting out and taking the MC’s death badly, is Yukari. When really if this is the climax they wanted to build to, everyone should have been grieving badly and constantly at each other’s throats. It could have been this building frustration and animosity, until they’re all at odds over what to do with the key and a fight breaks out.

What we get is everyone…mostly being pretty chill, aside from Yukari being kind of petty and jealous at Aigis. And I think the reason people react badly to her (misogyny notwithstanding) is that it’s really weird when she’s the only one having this extreme reaction. Instead of everyone dealing with the MCs death in their own distinct way, it’s only explored with Aigis and Yukari and only somewhat. Hell if you didn’t have such a jarring disconnect, and there was a better variety of reactions and thoughts from across the cast, I think more people would praise Yukari’s writing here. As it stands, when everyone else is almost ridiculously reasonable, it looks very jarring.

And then when the group do fight it feels completely out of nowhere precisely because of how agreeable everyone’s been. Everyone willingly jumps into a pointless fight that could get them all killed, one that only one member of the group even wants. All for a very contrived plot point that was set up five minutes ago. It’s executed in such a sloppy way that it makes the genuinely good scene of Yukari’s breakdown ring hollow. You get the sense that the writers weren’t really interested in exploring Yukari’s grief beyond using it as a plot device to make a dumb, unnecessary punch up scene happen.

I can see what they’re trying to do in Reload. They wanted to make Yukari stick out like less of a sore thumb compared to the rest of the group. But if they were gonna do that, they kinda needed to dial everyone else up, not dial her down. Build the tension between the party further rather than decrease it. Because now, if Yukari, and by extension the rest of the party are way more reasonable, it just begs the question even more of ‘they why are you fighting in the first place?’ It’s slapping on a band aid in a way that just exposes the whole scenario’s weaknesses

I genuinely think Episode Aigis needed to either keep the Answer entirely as is, or overhaul it completely. Making little changes like this won’t win over people who hated The Answer the first time, and will just annoy people who liked it as is. As it stands, The Answer is still a mess of good ideas mired by poor execution and Reload’s take only makes a handful of small changes that are ultimately different, not better.

[bicheetopuff]

I just saw the worst takes about bnha’s ending on Instagram (three days ago now, as of posting this). So, today we’re gonna talk about Izuocha, shonen homoeroticism, and fandom… not in that order though…

I: Fandom

Fandom culture for all media has basically always been a war zone that you have to actively avoid, usually with two defining sides: people who try to enjoy media the way they want to enjoy it, and the people who say that everyone is wrong and attack others who they don’t agree with. There are shades of gray on both sides, but in general this is usually the case. It’s never been “‘alphabet mafia’ vs ‘normal’” or “fanon vs canon” or “right vs wrong”… I almost always see people having fun being attacked unwarranted (I am not saying that people being legitimately problematic shouldn’t be called out, pls don’t get me wrong. I’m talking about innocent fun!). And I’m not just talking about dudebros attacking shippers, I’ve seen a lot of shippers attack non-shippers/other shippers of a different ship, and it’s almost always people just saying “you’re wrong, I’m right, and your take ruins this media piece of media for everyone else.” That being said, I wanna talk about the highlighted parts of these comments, okay? But first I need to explain the video that these comments were on.

It was a video by @/d_rich7 on Instagram, a big anime creator, talking about this tweet:

To summarize the video, he went on to say that he’s not surprised because bnha has the worst shipping community since Naruto and how Horikoshi probably felt forced into not confirming any ships because of “threats and hate mail” that he got from his fandom. I’ll come back to that but first I’ll talk about some of the comments:

“At least, they can say they weren’t the reason for the downfall of their anime.”

I've seen this take from different parts of the fandom, whether it was in regard to ships, todofam, or the villains. Just because the narrative of a story ends up matching the theories of people you disagree with, doesn't mean the story is going through a downfall. Just accept that you were wrong and move on. It is okay to not like certain aspects of the story and it's okay to discuss and criticize it, but pinning the blame on people who just happened to be right, no matter how much you hate it, is not okay.

“People need to stop demanding the literal CREATOR of a series to do things how they want it done…They to learn it’s not their story to tell…”

“…like I don’t get how people who have no impact on the writing of a story get mad because the CREATORS don’t wanna use their personal ideas.”

“…from now on imma blame the fandom for fucking up the anime/manga, we could’ve had a better ending if it wasn’t for them…”

Outside of the context, I actually agree with the sentiment that fans shouldn't feel so entitled that they think they have any control over the media they're consuming. But, the commenters don't realize that they're doing the exact thing that they’re talking about. They're convinced that the queer shipping community is the reason the creator decided not to confirm any relationship and are pissed off that the ship they were rooting for, didn't happen. Why are they exempt from this rule? Because straight ships are supposed to happen and queer ships aren't? Because the boy is supposed to win the girl at the end in order to develop a good shonen? I'll go into the misogynistic implications of that later.

Other than that, I have seen a lot of people on tumblr get mad about other things, like before, regarding to the villains and todofam drama to the point that they started insulting Hori. Like I said, it's okay to be mad. Being mad about something doesn't make you a bad person but it was never our story to tell. Criticism and hate, are two different things and come off very differently.

“MHA’s fandom is filled to the brim with toxic, no shower taking, furry loving, lgbtq idiots…”

Honestly I added this one because he's right. We're here, we're queer, and we're idiots in the best way possible. However, I think this also says the quiet part out loud when it comes to the hatred towards bnha and it's fandom.

Shipping communities in other fandoms don't get anywhere near as harassed as often as the shipping communities in the bnha fandom despite not being much different. The difference is, a lot of us identify as and are recognized as queer and Hori himself even recognized that the LGBT community especially took a liking to his manga. But, in other fandoms, it's only okay to consider queer ships if they're recognized by the cishet audience.

Most people in the aot fandom don't have an issue with eremin because it was something recognized and memed by straight men, even if it was mostly as a joke. The kny fandom doesn't care about inotan because it was also recognized and memed by straight men. Narusasu doesn't get much hate anymore because the straight men of their fandom also started to recognize the characters weird obsession with each other and it became more difficult to ignore the ship since there was literally multiple accidental kiss scenes--one of the few times where the source material actively encourages shipping. I can keep going too.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, non-shonen animes with majority cishet women as their audience, no one bats an eye at their ships either, because there's not enough men in their communities to tell them they should feel ashamed for their fanon content and their words hold no weight… and there’s a lot less queer people in those fandoms. You see the trend, right? It's almost like queer shipping is perfectly okay and mostly accepted as long as the community is either majority cishet men, or those men grant permission/approval for the specific ships or the piece of media wasn’t “meant for men.” Otherwise, it's seen as gross and cringe.

There was one other community that was kind of similar to bnha in a sense that it was mostly consumed by queer people and cishet men, where there was a lot of discourse on whether the two main characters were queer or not… which is the Buddy Daddies fandom. When the show was airing, those two sides that I talked about earlier were pretty apparent, with people having heated arguments about whether there were queer undertones or not. The cishet men of the fandom didn't give their approval to ship Rei and Kazuki, so it became an issue. Same with JJK now, more so with itafushi though. SatoSugu was given a somewhat stamp of approval but itafushi is still seen as taboo.

However, for some reason, every queer ship and character (even if it's canon) in bnha is seen as something shameful to recognize which I think is very telling considering how large the queer and disabled part of the fandom is. Minorities are being punished for relating to a manga with discrimination as one of it's core themes. Do what you want with that...

“…hate-mail just pushed him over the edge so he just scrapped everything just as punishment to spite them…”

This kind of references rumors from a few years ago about the shipping community sending hate mail and death threats towards Horikoshi and everyone just running with it without doing their research.

Horikoshi did receive death threats but it was about Dr.Garaki's original name which you can read about here. It was mostly the eastern side of the fandom being aggressive, even going as far as posting videos of them burning the volume where Garaki's name was revealed which isn't okay. However, everyone blamed it on the western shipping community... for whatever reason...

There was another instance where people in the western fandom started sending Horikoshi death threats on his twitter because of a chapter about Endeavor getting attacked by Dabi and an Nomu and the Todo family being worried about him, people claiming that Hori "deserved to die" for romanticizing and glorifying abuse (when that wasn't at all the case, I'm genuinely confused on how they interpreted that...). This came out six years ago but somehow is still narrowed down to the queer community and women being toxic... like what? Do you see my point now of it feeling like we need to be granted permission to do certain things in fandom if we don't want to be punished?

Also who was Hori punishing by not confirming any ships? If anything, I’ve seen most shippers appreciative than not…

II: Ochako Uraraka and her relationship with Izuku Midoriya

Back to that point about misogyny that I mentioned earlier...

"...I would have lowkey wish we got to see deku and ochaco end up together since their relationship was hinted from the beginning..."

Quick warning... this is gonna be a long point.

Yes, they were attracted to each other at the beginning, no one is denying that. No one is denying Ochako’s crush either. Izuku’s nervous around her for the first like 50-ish chapters because he's still used to having friends (especially a girl. If you think about it, if his childhood friends were the only friends he had ever had before getting shunned by his community, then he had never had a girl as a friend before... ever) but their relationship eventually mellows out into a normal friendship. Given Ochako and Toga's arc, I don't think Izuocha was ever destined to end romantically.

Toga was desperate to be loved by someone who accepted her for who she was while Ochako was desperate to be able to show love to someone who she truly admired. Ochako wanted to be like Deku and tried for a while until she realized that she couldn’t and shouldn’t want to be like Deku. She thinks he’s amazing but she realizes that she can’t strive to be like him because she’s already like him but wants to change.

(this is kind of off topic but I just want to point out what Ochako said about Toga being sad about not being able to totally become Jin. Correct me if I'm remembering wrong but, Toga was only able to ever transform into Ochako completely, quirk and all. I think there's an analogy there, where her being able to be just like someone possibly means she's in love with them but she convinces herself that she loves everyone equally. I think it's supposed to be saying that "even though you can't be him completely, doesn't mean you don't love him, you just don't love him in the way you thought you did" and I think Ochako realizes that because she possibly had the same realization with Izuku. Becoming him didn't work out for her because she didn't love him the way others told her she did... I guess it wasn't off topic... oh well.)

The highlighted parts can apply to Ochako too if you replace “bloodlust” with “envy”. She suffered the same issue that Toga did with other people telling her how and who to love which made her feel like she was supposed to be jealous.

She didn't like these feelings of jealousy, so she began to unintentionally be like Deku and hide them. I don't think she ever had an issue with loving Deku but she had an issue with the way she convinced herself of how she loved Deku made her feel. It made her feel like she was hiding something because I think she felt conflicted for not loving him the way everyone expected her to. All the way up to her final fight with Toga, we were only getting intel about her crush from other characters. Not her.

There's a lot of Mina just telling her what her feelings are despite Mina canonically not knowing much about love. Her crush has always been projected onto her which is why she's able to relate to Toga so well and wants to be more like her since Toga is able to live as herself so comfortably and broke away from conformity and what's expected of her.

Ochako's crush is only there because it's expected to be and her arc is meant to prove that she can be more than just the MCs love interest. Ochako's projected crush is Horikoshi trying to prove a point about basic shonen tropes which he's done time and time again throughout the story. SHE WANTS TO LIVE AND LOVE HOW SHE PLEASES WITHOUT SOCIETY TELLING HER HOW TO JUST LIKE TOGA WAS ABLE TO DO! I WILL KEEP SAYING IT UNTIL MY THROAT IS RAW AND DUDEBROS BEGIN TO FINALLY UNDERSTAND AND NOT VIEW FEMALE CHARACTERS AS NOTHING MORE THAN EYE CANDY FOR THE MALE CHARACTERS!!!

In the epilogue. she hides her feelings with a smile because she doesn't want to worry anyone (sound familiar?) so it only makes sense that it was Deku who pushed her to let out her feelings despite not practicing what he preaches. So, she embraced her inner Himiko and let out her feelings with her whole face. Those feeling just weren't for Deku... and they shouldn't have to be.

I genuinely feel like (especially with the way dudebros hate queer ships in this fandom) if Ochako was a boy, her arc wouldn't have been so widely misinterpreted. Because if he had talked about how amazing Izuku was and Mina came in and still said "It's love!" most fans would've taken it as a joke and/or even going as far as pointing out that the crush wasn't real because he didn't actually admit to it and it was projected onto him by other characters. But, the world ain't ready for that conversation.

"...I saw it as the fandom tryn to force their ships into the story 100% ruining key moments..."

I mainly added this quote because I thought it was so absurd. How do you see class-a coming to support Ochako as "omg it's the fandom forcing their agenda and controlling Hori through mind control to force their ships into the story and ruin this key moment,"??? Like, is it really so unthinkable that Horikoshi can have creative freedom outside the norm of treating girl characters as a trophy for the MC? You expected Izuku to marry her on the spot while she's having a mental breakdown? It's just... anyways...

III: Old-Gen Shonen Homoeroticism and it's Relation with Internalized Misogyny and how New-Gen is Changing That

The Shonen genre - especially old gen - is notorious for it's accidental misogyny, queerphobia, and racism. It got to the point where it's just kind of expected at this point.

The main one is usually misogyny. A lot of shonen mangaka like to write women as nothing more than eye candy and when they are actually given a personality and power, their character arcs are suddenly ignored/neglected and turned back into eye candy. Take Tsunade and Nezuko for example. We're told that they're important and powerful and yet they rarely do anything and almost never get important speaking lines and when we get to see them in action, the author makes sure to highlight certain parts of their bodies. Nezuko I think is an especially obvious one, being literally muzzled for most of the story, and when she powers up, she grows up and is suddenly given huge boobs...

Almost every shonen girls' character arcs revolves around a man and if not, then their existence is for the sake of a male character. I will say, I havent watched much shonen because of this aspect that's always apparent, but almost every older shonen I've watched, read, or seen other people talk about, it rears its ugly head at least once.

Because of that, most love interests weren’t given enough personality to actually form a meaningful relationship with the MC that the audience - especially female and queer audiences - can connect to. More often than not, it’s “I like her cuz she’s pretty” or “I like her cuz she likes me” and it’s irritating. And since these relationships are so shallow, authors are forced to create an interesting bond between the MC and a different character which usually ends up being the deuteragonist who is usually another boy more often than not. And boys in media written “for boys” are almost never neglected the way a girl would be, which is a sad truth.

These relationships almost always end up feeling like they’re passed the point of friendship and because of that, a lot of women and queer people end up shipping them instead of the canon love interest. Because their relationship being romantic actually makes sense most of the time.

BakuDeku, Eremin, KilluaGon, NaruSasu, ItaFushi, SatoSugu, IsaBachi, HideKan, GenoSai, LawLight, the list can go on for fucking ever.

However, in bnha and BakuDeku’s case, especially when the “canon” relationship with the “canon” love interest wasn’t really developed at all, and we never got a hint from Deku that he liked her, I don’t think this homoeroticism wasn’t intentional. Like with a lot of new-gen, there wasn’t really blatant misogyny towards the “love interest” present to explain away the closeness between the two male leads.

All of the roles a love interest would usually have, were given to Katsuki. He was damseled for Deku to save, he was Deku’s biggest cheerleader, he risked his life to save Deku, he died in Izuku’s honor, he showed up for Izuku when no one else thought to, he showed up to his hospital room and cried over the condition he was in, and then he devoted nearly a decade of his life trying to bring Izuku’s dream back into fruition… He cares so fucking much and Izuku cares right back. And no one can convince me that it was accidentally gay, because Horikoshi literally felt the need to tell AND remind us that Katsuki doesn’t like girls. Plus, like I said before, all of that was done without neglecting Uraraka’s character arc.

But even though all of that is in text, I think shonen bros just expect it while also expecting the main girl and boy to be together… because that’s how it always used to be. It wasn’t until new-gen - starting with mha - started to purposely parody dated shonen tropes and twisting them into their own stories that shonen bros began to feel threatened by queer ships. Because they know that there’s actually a chance of them happening now, and I feel like IzuOcha not being canonized is the beginning of a new trend. And misogynistic anime fans already hate it.

Conclusion - TLDR

uh idk what to say here.

In conclusion, fandom culture kinda sucks because of unexpected reasons, Ochako’s character arc is ignored for the sake of men wanting her to be Izuku’s prize and it’s irritating as fuck, and I think previously accidental homoeroticism in old-gen shonen is becoming purposeful in new-gen shonen as new-gen slowly becomes more progressive and less misogynistic. Oh and bkdk canon ig (I don’t think I’ve ever said that before, strangely enough…)

[physalian]

Another 5 Character Types the World Needs More of (Part 3)

Part 1 Part 2

I did not expect these two posts to continue getting notes. So. Here’s some that didn’t make the cut and a few new ones.

1. Character who is immune to everyone else’s bullshit

This can either be funny or a breath of fresh air. I’m talking your drama cast of 15 all losing their minds over “he said/she said” and fixating on so many ridiculous and arbitrary problems… meanwhile Chuck over here is skinned with teflon and completely immune to tropes like manufactured miscommunication or drama, who’s juuust shy of being genre savvy to Get Shit Done like this is their second time around the block and they are not happy to be back.

The first one to pop into my head is Soundwave from TFP. He has no voice actor for 99% of the show and doesn’t have a face and is only the focus character for like, 2 episodes, but whenever he’s on screen you can just see “I’m surrounded by idiots” playing on repeat in his head. This con is brutally efficient, never messes up, and is never wrong and while everyone else is caught up on ladder-climbing and revenge quests, Soundwave is over here vibing and keeping the whole cause together.

2. The Femme Fatale, but a man

This is not sexy suave abusive asshole hero you’re supposed to root for, who’s a male power fantasy. This is literally the exact same trope, but a man. Meaning, he gets the same revealing uniform, the same “I’m letting you think you’re in charge but really I’m pulling all the strings”. Crucially, he’s straight, because most of them are gay-coded (because the man being in the submissive, ‘girly role’ is horrifying, he must be gay). This dude weaponizes toxic masculinity, making the villains extremely uncomfortable and throwing the villain’s own power fantasy back in their face.

This dude unabashedly flirts with his captors just to get in their heads, removes all concepts of personal space, and makes straight villains seriously question their sexuality. He has social engineering down to a science. I’m sure there’s one that exists, but every one I can think of is already queer-coded and that’s not good enough. So just. Black Widow. But a man.

3. Mary Sue/ Gary Stu who becomes the villain

Since these characters are the product of insecurity and lack of self-awareness… the example for this trope is Titan from Megamind. This character is absolutely the hero of their own story, practically perfect in every way. They think they’re the best at everything without trying, flawless in features and personality, and everybody loves them. And genuinely, they are just that good.

So good, that they live long enough to become the villain. Obviously people who write Mary Sues with full sincerity have no idea that anything’s wrong or problematic, but a genuine Mary Sue whose perfection is their greatest flaw without them even realizing it would be an interesting villain because I’m getting sick and tired of “sympathetic” villains who are really starting to feel like excuses for abusers to be abusive because they were smacked around as a kid.

4. Paragon who is wrong, but also right?

Apparently I’m in a Transformers mood today. There’s an episode where the Autobots’ medic/second in command does the whole “desperate scientist tests their invention on themselves with horrible results” trope and he gains the strength and speed he otherwise hasn’t had in like, eons, and starts kicking ass and taking names (and committing war crimes) to the point where his team is like “uh, buddy, slow down a bit, you’re starting to act like a Decepticon”.

The best part of that episode is where Ratchet (medic) completely unloads on Optimus about how he’s too soft, about how he’s had a million chances to end the war and murder Megatron (which is true) and yet Optimus lets the window pass again and again still hoping for Megatron’s redemption… while in the process, countless Autobots keep dying, collateral keeps happening, all because Optimus is stubborn and won’t just get it over with.

We know Ratchet is right, because throughout the next season, Optimus is a bit more… shall we say, ruthless, in trying to legitimately end the war, Megatron’s redemption be damned. But that episode ends with Ratchet nearly dying when trying to kill Megatron himself, and understanding that the Autobots are Autobots for a reason, because they’re “good,” and sinking to the enemy’s level won’t be a good foundation for a peaceful post-war survival of their species. Point being, sometimes being a Paragon is an incredibly selfish virtue.

5. Parents who know what’s up

So, while I am a firm supporter in the dead parent cliché because parents are super inconvenient sometimes, when it’s not that kind of story and the parents are a big part of the plot… while also being idiots (like Disney and Nickelodeon sitcoms circa 2008), just to make the kids sound smarter, it’s just been done to death. Everything you could think of, your parents probably did when they were your age so having competent parents in the plot as a well-meaning obstacle that continues to surprise the hero is pretty rare in stuff like YA. Usually it’s “I must lie to them to keep them safe” meanwhile Sally Jackson is over here murdering her husband with Medusa’s severed head.

They don’t have to join the hero team, but parents painted as bumbling idiots is a disservice to the mischievous teenagers they used to be. Or just the parent who really does know the kid better than they do, like when kids anxiously come out and the parent is like “honey I knew since you were 3 let’s go get ice cream”. I didn't watch Glee but that one dad who was like "son all you wanted was a pair of sensible shoes, I knew." So yeah. Smart parents. More please.

[rat-rambles]

Ok Alastor shippers of all sorts, I'm going to put in my two cents and before I get into I'm a pro shipper all around just don't be mean to each other and tags are there for a reason.

My credentials: I'm an gray ace, aro person who's been around Fandom a very long time. Personally I've been initiated with the “but al is ace aro so you can't ship him” discourse and first off that's not true both because we can date -I Have a long term Partner- and because I've explored a lot of my queer identity through Fandom and fanfics and I think others should get the chance to do the same. I'm sure a lot of people will learn they’re ace aro because of alastor. That being said ik a lot of you writers out there aren't ace aro and are new to the topic so I'm going to go over some of my personal suggestions of how you could make Canon compliant works. (And if you do any or find any please send to me I'd love to see it)

Oblivious Alastor

Canonically this man doesn't know he's an ace in the hole. And I don't believe an egomaniac like him would assume that there's anything “different” about himself. ik when I was a baby ace I thought everyone was just being dramatic basically before realizing I was the exception. I can see this going 2 ways.

Radiostatic (pre show): vox is obviously completely smitten with al and al sees dating a more powerful overlord as an advantage(which vox in the past was the more powerful of the two). And Al starts getting slowly more and more uncomfortable and vox gets pushy in a very manipulative way.

Radioapple: enemies to friends to lovers? After Al and Luci become close friends, Luci starts to catch feelings for Al and Al agrees to date him seeing as he is fond of him and he's a very powerful ally so why wouldn't Al date him? As the relationship progresses they’re both confused by Alastor's behavior. Luci tries to be respectful. You know maybe he's just very against pda. And al doesnt understand why he's not feeling the things he's meant to.

I can see Al reverse heteronormativity- ing his way into assuming he's gay because he's NOT straight.

Malicious intent

Same as the last one except Al knows he doesn't have feelings for them like that and is trying to be toxic and uses them. IE what if Al was a gold digger actually.

Maybe I am in love?

Al actually thinks that he MUST be feeling a romantic connection because this is the closest he's ever been to someone and once again, gets steadily more confused as he realizes what he and his partner are experiencing is different.

All of these can end in nice queer platonic bliss and I think any story where Al and his partner discover he's ace after establishing the relationship is inherently interesting.

Last note some ace vocabulary

Ace and aro are a spectrum. Typically with ace people they will self identify as either sex positive, sex negative, or sex neutral. With Al it's generally head cannoned that he's sex negative but that's not explicitly Cannon and sex positive and neutral aces are valid.

Sex negative: is self explanatory it's what everyone thinks aces are; I don't want sex ever the idea grosses me out ect.

Sex neutral: is when someone doesn't have the desire for sex but isn't repulsed by it either. If they are in a relationship and their partner wants to have sex they’re open to it but don't expect initiation on their part.

Sex positive: people have a hard time understanding this because it's the seperating of the need for sex from the want. Typically if a sex positive ace were to never have sex again they'd die happy but if they have a willing partner they are happy to participate. It builds intimacy. It feels good, it's nice but it's not the same as being allo and having that cardinal lust.

note: please know what type your head cannoning Al as in your works when writing it, although people of course can change which they feel they align with, it's important to know how he's feeling about it.

I'm not as familiar with aro terminology but like with ace it's more about the drive the need the anguish. Al wouldn’t in cannon crave romantic connection.

Like with ace it's not actually cannon what type of aro he is some aro people are completely repulsed by the idea of romantic relationships or they only like it in theory (which playing around with the idea of Al liking a relationship in theory but not in practice could be a lot of fun.)

The gray romantic umbrella are aro people who can have romantic attraction to some degree. They’re still aro you can head cannon Al as it but please do a little research into which one you think your version of Al would identify with there quite a few so I'll spare the list here.

Demi romantic is when someone can develop romantic attraction for very specific people, very rarely. These people won't be on Bumble but might fall for someone after knowing them for a few years (or an indeterminate amount of time, my timeline was a year and a half I shit you not) a lot of you are looking for that.

As for kink. Lots of queer people especially are into kink because it's intimate, it's physical, it requires trust but it's not actually inherently sexual a lot of the time. And we do know that Al likes torturing and being dominant so yeah he'd be kinky that's completely canon compliant.

At the end of the day Al is ace aro in the show and that's what counts. Have fun be creative, explore the depths of your queer little minds and please be nice to each other.

(and if any of you make works related to this please please please send them to me thanks)

[pearwaldorf]

I have been trying to write this on and off for a while. I figure the second anniversary of the show is as fine an occasion as any to shove it out into the world. It is not everything I want to say about it, but I think the important bits are there.

It is a human impulse to be seen. To be told, through art, you are not alone. It is universal, but of special importance to people who are not well-represented in media (i.e. everybody who isn’t cis, white, able-bodied, skinny, and conventionally attractive).   

This show speaks to me as a queer person who figured things out later than most of my peers. (Not quite as late as Ed and Stede but not terribly far off either.) It’s not super common to see queer media address this, and I didn’t realize how much I needed that reassurance until I got it. That it’s okay to find these things any time in your life. To be told “A queer is never late, they’re always fashionably on-time.” 

They’re not my first canon queer ship. But they are the first ones where I knew it was true from the get-go. Multiple people assured me this was the case. And yet, I still didn’t believe it until I saw it with my own two eyes. This experience is not unusual for fans around my age.  

After I finished up season one, I laid in bed and cried. It’s not something I thought would affect me so much, but it feels like a weight I’d carried so long I didn’t realize it wasn’t supposed to be part of me is gone.

One of the reasons people unfamiliar with the fandom seem to think it’s absolutely crazy (which some of it is, to be fair, but every fandom has that) is the way fans of the show get extremely super intense about it. It took me a few weeks to realize this is a trauma response. I’m not even sure “trauma” is the right word. It doesn’t interfere with my day to day function, but it lasted for years. Decades. So it was definitely something that fucked me up. And in the way you can only start to see something as you’re moving past it, I’ve spent a lot of time trying to get my head around this. (I don’t know if I have anything to say about it yet. Maybe I need more time to sit with it.)

I know this sounds contrary, but I’m really glad David Jenkins does not come from fandom. Sometimes it’s good to know where a line is, and others it’s better to not know there’s a line at all. And this is, sad to say, remarkable to somebody who has had to deal with this for so long. With so many writers and showrunners aware of the line, and getting right up next to it, but never crossing it.

Imagine doing a show with a queer romance and not understanding why this was received with such emotion and fervor, because it’s just two people in love right? What blissful ignorance that this needed to be explained to him! And then he listened to people’s experiences with queerbaiting, and went “Oh my god you thought I was going to do WHAT?” And then you go “Huh. That is really fucked up.” 

The problem with being told something enough, even though you know it’s wrong, is you start to believe it regardless. All the excuses and hedging. It’s so very difficult to do they tell us, when we hear from queer creators how they had fight tooth and nail to make it as gay as it already was. 

And then comes Jenks, just yeeting it out there: majority queer and (not and/or. and) POC cast, an openly non-binary person playing an openly non-binary character. The ability to not have to make one queer (and/or) POC character speak for everybody, so you can inject a tiny bit of nuance into the conversation. The way you can tell more kinds of stories, like the one where the smol angry internalized homophobe comes into his own with the support of a queer community, even though he was a giant fucking asshole to them before.

So many people were like “You can just DO that? It’s really that easy?” And wasn’t that a fucking Situation, to have that curtain pulled aside. What next? Majority POC casts with stories about POC written by POC? Absolute madness. (Please please watch The Brothers Sun on Netflix. It’s so fucking good.) 

And people will scoff and say “Of course a cishet(?) white man would be able to get this pushed through.” But do they usually? The thing I don’t think people understand about allies is they use their privilege to wedge the door open. You still have to do the work to get through, but at least you have a place to start. And it really fucking matters.

The press keeps trying to tell me The Completely Made-Up Adventures of Dick Turpin is the OFMD substitute we need while we float in the gravy basket. I’m sure it’s a perfectly fine show, but I don’t know who has watched OFMD and decided the itch we needed scratched was anachronistic historical comedy.

I want stories written by people that reflect their lived experiences, with actors and crew committed to bringing that to life. And I would like streamers and studios to commit to giving them a chance, and marketing them properly so people know they exist. 

You can keep people satisficed with scraps for only so long. At some point, somebody is going to give them a whole seven course dinner and people will wonder why they’ve been putting up with starving this entire time.

[thatmultifandomchick]

Platonic Ships Are Important (To Me, Anyway)

A Personal Rant

As a quick disclaimer, I’m aromantic, so a lot of this post will be influenced by that fact.

Shipping, Fandom, and Aroace Discourse

Listen, I like shipping, but there’s something to be said about genuine platonic friendships in media. Relationships that don’t develop into anything romantic, but are still meaningful all the same. I know that many popular ships are non canon queer ships, and I fully support queer ships and head canons, as they are a good way to feel more connected to the work you enjoy. You can ship or head canon whatever you want, I’m not the boss of you.

But it can be incredibly frustrating when I want to consume content of a specific pair, and everything I find is romantic. The problem isn’t that people interpret characters as more than friends, it’s that the only way the relationship between these characters is allowed to be the center of attention is if they’re romantically involved. Even if the friendship is canon and significant in the source, it will often be ignored by fans, because friendships are seen as fundamentally less significant than romantic relationships are.

It only gets worse when these ships take away representation rather than create it. Aroace representation is LGBTQ+ representation, end of story. You can date and still be aroace, but if a character explicitly doesn’t date, then they don’t date. No room for discussion there.

Canon, Romance, and Very Bad Writing

I think a large reason that I tend to latch into platonic relationships in the media I consume is that romantic relationships are often treated as a given. Every major character will be paired off by the end of the story, even if the writer must invent a sea of new characters with no personalities of their own in order to give everyone a partner. Friendships are treated as not very important as long as you’re paired off.

But when the writer takes the time to establish a connection between two characters who aren't together, it feels special. This relationship isn't just there because it has to be, it's there because it actually adds something to the story or character development. Not to say that romantic relationships can't do the same, all the best do, but so many are able to get away with bringing nothing to the table.

The Platonic Love Story and My Ideal Dynamic

Just once, I want a story about two friends who are everything to each other, and do not fall in love. I want all the classic romance tropes, but with no romance involved. I want meet cutes, dramatic third act misunderstandings, and heartfelt declarations of platonic love. Even better if the main pair try dating and realize it doesn’t work for them. I’ve yet to experience such a story, but I can always dream.

TLDR

1. Queer head canons are valid

2. Friendships are not lesser than romances

3. Aroaces deserve representation

4. Romances are often lazily written

5. I want more QPR/ friendship stories

[save-the-villainous-cat]

So, unquick question:

I know you're probably not the best person to ask since as far as I know you're cis... but you are a really cool ally (using nongendered language when writing characters).

I was wondering what you would do to show a character asking another character's pronouns in a way that doesn't feel clunky or awkward?

Like, I've encountered media with non-binary or otherwise gender-non-conforming characters, but the problem is always that they're like, "Oh they're so androgynous. They seem to switch between feminine and masculine with every step they take!"

And, like, that's not representative of all (dare I say it, most) gender-non-conforming folks, especially not me! And I spent a long time trying to be more androgynous even though it wasn't the truest expression of myself. I'm AFAB, and I identify as non-binary even though I use she/her pronouns and dress femininely, and I want to write representation nearer to that, but I'm not sure how to. Like, how do you write a complicated understanding of gender? Especially when the person isn't obviously trans/gender-non-conforming/gender queer? Unfortunately, asking someone's pronouns is not yet as common as asking their name, and I'm not sure how to bring it up in my writing:(

Any advice is appreciated!! Thank you very much, I love your writing (and the nongendered language makes me happy as a non-binary bean, even though I use she/her pronouns 🥰)

You’re right, I am definitely not the right person to ask this, so please check reblogs and comments.

I think there’s more than one question in here, so let me try to answer from my perspective as a writer, I also got a lot of help from my lovely @epiclamer who was kind enough to send actual examples (seriously baby thank you, you’re the sweetest 😭)

So, I think it really depends on what your story is about. Because there is a difference between a story with non-binary characters and a story about being non-binary.

If being non-binary is not a big theme in your story, I believe shifting a lot of the focus on a character being non-binary can seem a little distracting for the reader. Because, you know. Some people are just non-binary. Not every story with a non-binary person needs to be about gender. Like not every story about a teacher needs to be about teaching.

Some people live in a magical world and need to defeat the dragon and they just happen to be non-binary. And some people accidentally piss off the Mafia and need to save a former lover and those people just happen to be teachers.

So, if you’re not planning on writing anything related to that, I’d just let other characters figure it out.

Because, ultimately, when you’re talking to someone you’re using you. When you start talking about someone you’re using he/she/they.

So, I think that’s why it might come off a little strange to approach someone and ask “what are your pronouns?” Personally, I’d ask someone else about a person’s pronouns. And you can incorporate that into your writing! Maybe a character tries to whisper to a friend of the non-binary character “Yo, dude. What’re your friend’s pronouns??” And your character overhears them and answers: “I use she and they. But you can also call me your sweetheart.” With a wink of course.

Or something like:

“Wait, I just heard someone say ‘they broke into the mansion.’ Who the fuck are we talking about?”

“Me,” she said.

“Oh. Ohh.”

And I would leave it at that.

However, when the main theme of your story is about being non-binary and how to find your own identity etc., being non-binary will obviously need to be discussed more often and it will have to be the source of conflict.

By that, I don’t necessarily mean fighting. It can be a conflict for the non-binary person themselves; they’re questioning themselves, they’re trying to find the right label for themselves, they choose wrong, they decide on something else, they get slowly more comfortable yada yada yada.

The thing is, most people who are cis will have no knowledge about non-binary people. They probably will never really understand it either. I think that doesn’t have to be rooted in ignorance or being an evil person, I just think most people never really felt the need to question their own gender (or they don’t dare lol).

And I believe writing a clueless person learning something new or making a mistake and being corrected can be used in a very comedic way or simply to show the characteristics of that and other characters.

Here are some lovely examples my dear husband wrote: