#anti masculinity

[genderqueerdykes]

I think what people forget about trans men who pass easily (other than, yk, we're all individuals with different life experiences), is that a fair few of us also passed as male when we were identifying as female... and idk about anyone else but cisgender women were fucking awful to me about my gender presentation before I came out. like so many of them genuinely hate/are afraid of butch and gnc women. people would criticise my short hair, my body hair, how I dressed, if I was passionate about something they assumed I was angry, they told me I was intimidating. I was 12 the first time a woman confronted me about being in the wrong bathroom, I barely even knew what transgender was at that point and I certainly wasn't identifying as it yet. I mean, I went to an all girls school for 5 years and I passed as male even in a skirt for 4 of those years, so my negative experiences are uniquely skewed towards women/girls, but the point is we don't magically get cis male privilege because we pass as men.

thank you so much for sending this, i really appreciate it. i'm so sorry you went through this, this is horrible.

but you're right, you're extremely right. so many people react so poorly to butch and gnc women. i was also treated like shit because i looked so masculine after i hit puberty. butch women do not have it easy. i always roll my eyes when people sy that butches and trans men can wear flannels and mens jeans and mens clothes without ever facing issues for it, because that's a damn lie. women wearing men's clothes isn't as normalized as people think it is. you get harassed for it

like so many of them genuinely hate/are afraid of butch and gnc women. people would criticise my short hair, my body hair, how I dressed, if I was passionate about something they assumed I was angry, they told me I was intimidating.

i get this literally all the time. i get criticized for being "intimidating" and "mean" when i'm passionate about something all the time. men and mascs can't have a firm or excited tone of voice without being told we're scary or mean or whatever. if mascs and men aren't overwhelming positive and soft and gentle and coddling people instantly assume we're doing it on purpose to hurt them. i get so tired of people expecting me to coddle others because i'm masculine and a man and i'm "too scary" otherwise. i'm not being scary when i stand my ground. i'm not being "intimidating" when i stand up for myself. i don't have to make everything sugary sweet. i don't have to kiss peoples' asses. i'm sorry it for some reason is scary when confident, passionate men and mascs talk, but that doesn't mean we have to hate ourselves and shut up like you want us to.

i'm really sorry you've dealt with this, but thank you for sharing. this is really important for people to hear. we barely if ever benefit from patriarchy

[majesticcorn2000]

people like to talk about how bad toxic masculinity is until they hear transmasculine people talking about their experience and suddenly it turns into "stop whining, you are A MAN"

[ugly-anarchist]

People on this site cannot or intentionally refuse to distinguish between systemic oppression and lateral mistreatment and it's a massive problem.

Me talking about how other queer people target me for having masculine traits isn't me saying that cisallohet perisex men are oppressed for being men and feminism sucks and lesbians are evil.

Me pointing out how late diagnosed autistic people treat me like an other for getting a diagnosis early isn't me saying late diagnosed people are privileged and have power over me.

Me saying that aroaces have mistreated me and pushed me out of aspec spaces as an alloaro isn't me saying that aroaces are my oppressors and they don't belong in aro spaces.

"Can the people who are in the same community as me but have different experiences please stop treating me like shit" isn't me saying that I'm the most oppressed person on the planet and no one but me suffers. I'm just asking you to stop treating me like shit. That shouldn't be a controversial statement.

Not everything is about privilege and oppression, sometimes people are just dicks and maybe it's you.

[atomicapplebees]

Never have I seen someone's idea of misogyny so fucked as when they come at trans men to say that "men and people aligning themselves with maleness have a responsibility to understand the potential they have to hurt women." No one else has that responsibility or potential, apparently. It blossomed within you the moment you decided to call yourself a man.

It fucking bothers me how misogyny has been watered down into "individual men oppressing individual women." It's not a societal problem that literally every one of us internalizes. It's not something weaponized against anyone perceived as a woman or even too feminine. It's the default state of people who identify as men.

If they can even admit that women can internalize misogyny, or weaponize it to empower themselves, or that men can also be targeted, it's not as bad I mean different (and barely worth mentioning).

Are we actually concerned with societal misogyny or do we want to pretend there's a singular Source so we don't have to think about it. Wait don't answer that.

[xmimikyuusx]

I had a longer post rattled off that I don't feel like posting anymore, but anti-masculinity in leftist spaces also means we need to stop being mean to teenaged girls that like yaoi, and we need to stop implying that loving fictional men means you hate women. Don't give me any "except for the people who-" I mean every single one.

[shamebats]

So we do need political change, but I feel like I'm failing my boys if I'm somehow giving them the idea that revolution is their only hope. Cause here's the other thing, even if we did succeed at ending capitalism there would still be gender. And my boys would still need some model of what it is to lead a good life as a man. Now the other option the left has for disillusioned men is the feminist tranquilizer. We say "look, toxic masculinity is the reason you don't have room to express your feelings. And it's the reason you feel lonely and inadequate." So while feminism tells women "you hate your body and you're constantly doubting yourself because society did this to you and needs to change”, we kinda just tell men "you're lonely and suicidal because you're toxic. Stop it".  We tell them that they're broken without really telling them how to fix themselves. I think what we need is a new, positive ideal of manhood. Which I don't think is something that women cannot create for men, even if they wanted to. And honestly the best way for that to happen may actually be some kind of men's movement. But on the left the whole idea of a men's movement is basically taboo, because the men's movement we all know is basically just a backlash to feminism, and at worst it's just straight-up misogyny.  I think what would actually improve life for most men is a positive ideal of 21st century manhood (...) You have to help each other. So find each other in the comments section, meet up on Reddit, make friends, clean your room, leave the house, fuck each other. I don't know. It's worth a try.

- Men | ContraPoints

[30150]

Transandrophobia is not real.

Also my girlfriend keeps edging me

[objection-u-a-bitch]

I seen you post about me hating.

I just like to say that I agree with it partialy.

Trans men are men, and disabeld men are men just like ableld bodied men (this includs trans men). But unlike cis, and ablebodid men, trans men and disabeld men are much more safer for women to be around. Trans men were treated like girls growing up, so they know what it's like, and we don't need to explain how we are viewed socialy. And we don't have to be sceard of disabeld men become they can't really hurt us the same way as able bodied men can. Like a man in a wheelcheir can't kill us with his own hands dou to phisical restriction he has.

And I still be sceard of Jewish, black, asian, ect, men because they are men. Like if I'm alone at night going home from work then I will be sceard of any men regardless of his religion, ethnicity (exept Russian, if you see a Russian no metter the genders they are defenetly up to no good), or race I will be sceard the same way.

And fat men are a mix bag. They are eather sweat guys who strougles with self esteem issues and deservs support, or a raging misogenist who hates on fat women.

I don't know what post I made that you think is about you. The post about needing to unlearn misandry to be an ally that is pinned to my account is directed at everyone in leftist circles, and not because of a singular post I saw anywhere. I made it over two months ago with regards to general frustrations I have with anti-masculinity in the queer community in particular, but also in other leftist circles. It's funny though that you saw that post and thought it was about you. I don't even know who you are. And you clearly aren't telling me, because you're on anon. I'm not going to spend the time telling you why all of your ask is horseshit. It just is. You treat minority groups like a monolith and use it to justify being scared and bigoted towards men of all kinds. You treat all trans and disabled men as nonthreatening, which is infantilising, while saying all Russians are dangerous, which is some McCarthyist Cold War red scare bullshit. You talk about fat men as if only the "good ones" deserve support. Men constitute approximately 50 percent of the world population. To hate, fear, dismiss, avoid, ignore, and insult them is incongruent with leftist ideas of making the world a better place for everyone. Men are as varied and complex as women. They can be as gentle or as aggressive as women can be. They can be as harmless or as dangerous as women can be. They can be as forward-thinking or as close-minded as women can be.

You can't treat men as a monolith, and you also can't divide men into neat little groups that you sort into "good" and "bad". Every person is an individual who can choose to do good or do bad. Some of the white able-bodied cishet men in my life are the most supportive and kind people I know, and I know some fucking vile disabled trans men who need to shut the fuck up.

Taking precautions for your safety at night is reasonable, just like putting your seatbelt on in the car is reasonable, just like putting a smoke and carbon monoxide detector on every floor of your house is reasonable. Treating all men like shit because a few of them could be bad is not.

[the-fox-collective]

If you can go into a character customization screen, your game needs to have AT LEAST multiple sex characteristics and a way to change the weight and skin colour of the character.

If you can play as a man but not a woman, that is sexist and will cause players dysphoria.

If you can play as a woman but not a man, that is sexist and will cause players dysphoria.

If your character models can only be skinny, you are fatphobic

If your character models can only be white, you are racist

If your character cannot be disabled in any way, you are ableist

Just make your fucking playable, customizable character an ACTUAL customizable character.

If your game never ever requires the player to look at themself (or another player to be able to look at them), this does not matter. In every other scenario it does!

[genderqueerdykes]

may biphobic talking points are also being applied to transmascs now it sucks how it's just a cycle of people to say this too except biphobia has been happening since forever it doesn't give me a lot of hope we'll be able to overcome anti trans masculinity

thank you holy fuck, exactly, it's a repeat of the same old bullshit that's been happening for decades. a previous anon pointed this out with other identities, but i'm really glad you brought up biphobic talking points because as a bi trans man who deals with both of these- yeah. you summed it up perfectly.

it's just the same. old. shit. over and over and over and over and over again.

we will overcome transandrophobia, anti transmasculinity and anti trans manhood (and biphobia too for that matter), we just need to stick together. it can happen. we can do it. it's in our reach. we just have to stop futzing around distracting ourselves with petty, needless drama, and actually fucking grasp it.

[edwardallenpoe]

Made the mistake once again to go thru the lesbian tag, interacted with a blog with "bi lesbians" in their dni accidentally and saw a post that said "men dni I genuinely want every one of you singlehandedly murdered in the street" what the hell is wrong with tumblr lesbians. I'm. Disturbed.

[ugly-anarchist]

This is what it feels like talking about antimasculinity within the queer community.

Disclaimer: This is a meme format and not The Best and Most Detailed explanation of antimasculinity ever.

[ace-up-your-sleeve]

you can dislike men without shaming your friends for being attracted to them. especially if they are telling you about a guy they are interested in 🥰

[men-and-their-monsters]

One of the reasons I think it’s hard to talk about being a man under the patriarchy is because talking about it as a man also requires people that have an idea of what a man is that isn’t based on the patriarchy but also have the ability to understand and empathize with the fact that people - men in this case - can’t necessarily undo all the stuff they have internalized overnight, and sometimes it’s about making sure that nobody else falls for that trap.

Like a few months ago I was on a discord call providing a metaphorical shoulder for one of my bets friends to cry on, because a lot of shit was happening. And he was talking and he started to cry and then I felt the tears and then I changed the subject. Because I’m a coward. And in that moment it was more important to stop myself from crying than it was to comfort my best friend. That conversation should have lasted hours and instead it lasted 25 minutes and I hate myself for changing the subject. I was not the man I wanted to be, or aspired to be or needed me to be. I was the man I hated and resented and feared.

I bring all this up because the conservatives would make fun of me for struggling not to cry “what kind of man struggles not to cry, only real men are deserts” but there is the insidious other side where leftists tend to reside, where they will use the same language to berate men for struggling to cry. “Why can’t he accept himself and fucking cry” they will use the same language like “tough guys wear pink” “only cowards don’t cry”. They will talk about my toxic masculinity like it isn’t also trauma and violence and pain that I suffered. I didn’t do it because I wanted to, I did it because I had internalized the feelings of society and I still don’t know how to deal with that. I want you to… no i need you to understand that if I could have I would have just cried. That was the right thing to do. That was the human thing to do. That was the human thing to do. And yet, that was the thing that was violently beaten out of me as a kid. The reason I didn’t cry was because of the patriarchy and the societal forces it controls it’s the reasons a lot of men do or don’t do a lot of things and the same can be said for the rest of the human population. This goes unrecognized when we talk about men a lot of the time.

[needytenshi]

local trans boy vents bla bla bla

i am SO tired of the people who claim transandrophobia/transmisandry/anti-transmasculinity/any term related to transmasc oppression “doesn’t exist” because its just transphobia bc apparently not a single person on earth hates trans men for being men, it’s just because we’re trans!

if i were not a man, i would not be trans.

if i were not trans, i would not be a man.

you cannot separate those from each other. i am not just trans. i am not just a man. i am a transgender man and both words are intertwined with each other in an inseparable way.

“nobody hates you because you’re a man. it’s because you’re trans.”

is it?

the people who say i should be a straight tomboy or a butch lesbian. “just because you dress up as a boy doesn’t mean you are one. it’s okay to like boy things and be a woman.”

the people who threaten me with violence. “oh since you wanna be a man, you can get your ass beat like one.”

the people who tell me i’m a traitor to women. “why would you choose to become the oppressor. kill yourself.”

the people who tell me to get raped.

the people who tell me to get assaulted.

the people who hope i get murdered.

the people who tell me to commit suicide.

the people who don’t think trans men exist.

the people who prioritize CHASERS above trans men.

the people who refuse to hear the cries of trans men when we are hurting.

the people who center other people in discussions about US and OUR oppression.

the people who believe we are worse than cisgender men because we “chose” to be men.

all of this is only because we are trans? not because we are transgender men?

at what point does it end? what will it take for people to listen to trans MEN about OUR fucking issues? when will people stop belittling us, mocking us, ignoring us, because we dared to have feelings about how we’re being oppressed?

ignoring us is the last fucking thing we need right now.

i’m tired of it.

[cios-correct-opinions]

"androphobia" doesn't exist. it's 'just' transphobia - which is bad! "transphobia that transmascs face" is just transphobia, no need for a special new word. i get people didn't want to say transmisandry because, well, misandry is fake and you sound just like a men's rights activist. but there is no "androphobia"