#anti masculinity

[majesticcorn2000]

people like to talk about how bad toxic masculinity is until they hear transmasculine people talking about their experience and suddenly it turns into "stop whining, you are A MAN"

[ugly-anarchist]

People on this site cannot or intentionally refuse to distinguish between systemic oppression and lateral mistreatment and it's a massive problem.

Me talking about how other queer people target me for having masculine traits isn't me saying that cisallohet perisex men are oppressed for being men and feminism sucks and lesbians are evil.

Me pointing out how late diagnosed autistic people treat me like an other for getting a diagnosis early isn't me saying late diagnosed people are privileged and have power over me.

Me saying that aroaces have mistreated me and pushed me out of aspec spaces as an alloaro isn't me saying that aroaces are my oppressors and they don't belong in aro spaces.

"Can the people who are in the same community as me but have different experiences please stop treating me like shit" isn't me saying that I'm the most oppressed person on the planet and no one but me suffers. I'm just asking you to stop treating me like shit. That shouldn't be a controversial statement.

Not everything is about privilege and oppression, sometimes people are just dicks and maybe it's you.

[atomicapplebees]

Never have I seen someone's idea of misogyny so fucked as when they come at trans men to say that "men and people aligning themselves with maleness have a responsibility to understand the potential they have to hurt women." No one else has that responsibility or potential, apparently. It blossomed within you the moment you decided to call yourself a man.

It fucking bothers me how misogyny has been watered down into "individual men oppressing individual women." It's not a societal problem that literally every one of us internalizes. It's not something weaponized against anyone perceived as a woman or even too feminine. It's the default state of people who identify as men.

If they can even admit that women can internalize misogyny, or weaponize it to empower themselves, or that men can also be targeted, it's not as bad I mean different (and barely worth mentioning).

Are we actually concerned with societal misogyny or do we want to pretend there's a singular Source so we don't have to think about it. Wait don't answer that.

[xmimikyuusx]

I had a longer post rattled off that I don't feel like posting anymore, but anti-masculinity in leftist spaces also means we need to stop being mean to teenaged girls that like yaoi, and we need to stop implying that loving fictional men means you hate women. Don't give me any "except for the people who-" I mean every single one.

[shamebats]

So we do need political change, but I feel like I'm failing my boys if I'm somehow giving them the idea that revolution is their only hope. Cause here's the other thing, even if we did succeed at ending capitalism there would still be gender. And my boys would still need some model of what it is to lead a good life as a man. Now the other option the left has for disillusioned men is the feminist tranquilizer. We say "look, toxic masculinity is the reason you don't have room to express your feelings. And it's the reason you feel lonely and inadequate." So while feminism tells women "you hate your body and you're constantly doubting yourself because society did this to you and needs to change”, we kinda just tell men "you're lonely and suicidal because you're toxic. Stop it".  We tell them that they're broken without really telling them how to fix themselves. I think what we need is a new, positive ideal of manhood. Which I don't think is something that women cannot create for men, even if they wanted to. And honestly the best way for that to happen may actually be some kind of men's movement. But on the left the whole idea of a men's movement is basically taboo, because the men's movement we all know is basically just a backlash to feminism, and at worst it's just straight-up misogyny.  I think what would actually improve life for most men is a positive ideal of 21st century manhood (...) You have to help each other. So find each other in the comments section, meet up on Reddit, make friends, clean your room, leave the house, fuck each other. I don't know. It's worth a try.

- Men | ContraPoints

[milokissa707]

Let’s spin the wheel

Which one will the anons choose today, let’s see which one they pick



[punkeropercyjackson]

Oh my goddddddd the lesson Percy Jackson gave about gender wasn't 'teaching young boys positive,soft masculinity',it was 'you don't have to be masculine if you don't want to'.Not 'you don't have to be traditionally masculine,there's other kinds of masculinity!!',just 'you don't gotta be masc if you don't wanna'.Percy never had an arc about 'embracing' masculinity and manhood and has neutral to negative feelings on it,very understandable considering all the older men in the series are dogshit and a couple of the ones Percy's age ain't good either,notably in a racist and/or misogynistic way.Percy's also played as the best hero ever for these things so if anything,Percy is so not a case of 'Dudes Rock'(insane ass and unhinged thing to say about PERCY JACKSON of all characters btw)that she lends to a transfem reading more anything to do with men.Trans women exist,remember?And i don't see any reason Percy isn't one,especially seeing as the effects of transfem transition play perfectly into giving Percy a happy ending she's always wanted i.e feminizing herself to escape manhood,gaining self-confidence and creating her own destiny over what society wants for her.Why should Percy be masculine to fufill a quota that literally every other amab/'male' protagonist already does?Name a trans woman.And stop turning a punk activist and anarchist transfem mom friend into your male power fantasy self-insert to get vengeance on the canon the cast for being 'the female species' and not oldhead abusive men you think every other dude is obsessed with too,you 'Dark Percy' hoes are embarrassing

[objection-u-a-bitch]

I seen you post about me hating.

I just like to say that I agree with it partialy.

Trans men are men, and disabeld men are men just like ableld bodied men (this includs trans men). But unlike cis, and ablebodid men, trans men and disabeld men are much more safer for women to be around. Trans men were treated like girls growing up, so they know what it's like, and we don't need to explain how we are viewed socialy. And we don't have to be sceard of disabeld men become they can't really hurt us the same way as able bodied men can. Like a man in a wheelcheir can't kill us with his own hands dou to phisical restriction he has.

And I still be sceard of Jewish, black, asian, ect, men because they are men. Like if I'm alone at night going home from work then I will be sceard of any men regardless of his religion, ethnicity (exept Russian, if you see a Russian no metter the genders they are defenetly up to no good), or race I will be sceard the same way.

And fat men are a mix bag. They are eather sweat guys who strougles with self esteem issues and deservs support, or a raging misogenist who hates on fat women.

I don't know what post I made that you think is about you. The post about needing to unlearn misandry to be an ally that is pinned to my account is directed at everyone in leftist circles, and not because of a singular post I saw anywhere. I made it over two months ago with regards to general frustrations I have with anti-masculinity in the queer community in particular, but also in other leftist circles. It's funny though that you saw that post and thought it was about you. I don't even know who you are. And you clearly aren't telling me, because you're on anon. I'm not going to spend the time telling you why all of your ask is horseshit. It just is. You treat minority groups like a monolith and use it to justify being scared and bigoted towards men of all kinds. You treat all trans and disabled men as nonthreatening, which is infantilising, while saying all Russians are dangerous, which is some McCarthyist Cold War red scare bullshit. You talk about fat men as if only the "good ones" deserve support. Men constitute approximately 50 percent of the world population. To hate, fear, dismiss, avoid, ignore, and insult them is incongruent with leftist ideas of making the world a better place for everyone. Men are as varied and complex as women. They can be as gentle or as aggressive as women can be. They can be as harmless or as dangerous as women can be. They can be as forward-thinking or as close-minded as women can be.

You can't treat men as a monolith, and you also can't divide men into neat little groups that you sort into "good" and "bad". Every person is an individual who can choose to do good or do bad. Some of the white able-bodied cishet men in my life are the most supportive and kind people I know, and I know some fucking vile disabled trans men who need to shut the fuck up.

Taking precautions for your safety at night is reasonable, just like putting your seatbelt on in the car is reasonable, just like putting a smoke and carbon monoxide detector on every floor of your house is reasonable. Treating all men like shit because a few of them could be bad is not.

[ugly-anarchist]

This is what it feels like talking about antimasculinity within the queer community.

Disclaimer: This is a meme format and not The Best and Most Detailed explanation of antimasculinity ever.

[edwardallenpoe]

Made the mistake once again to go thru the lesbian tag, interacted with a blog with "bi lesbians" in their dni accidentally and saw a post that said "men dni I genuinely want every one of you singlehandedly murdered in the street" what the hell is wrong with tumblr lesbians. I'm. Disturbed.

[xxbl00dsh3dbunnyxx]

I hate the "kill all men" and anti-masculinity "movement"

I understand what exactly they're trying to go against, they are intending to try to push back against the oppressing cishet abled white men and rapists and pedophiles and abusers and things like that

But the whole movement has spiraled to hating masculinity and men as a whole which is harmful, as I said, I get their movement and what they're trying to push back against but they're not realizing how it might affect already marginalized communities of men AND women

If makes masculinity seem something that is negative at it's core when it isn't, which makes it harder for certain marginalized groups of men to embrace masculinity, like black men who are often demonized for their masculinity or asian men who are often infantilized by the media, or trans men coming to terms with their masculinity and manhood or native men who were historically seen as "savages" or dirty

And it affects groups of women who were also demonized, like black women who were always seen as "masculine" no matter what or maybe closeted trans women who had hidden themselves in masculinity to try to deny themselves and were now trying to come out but are scared of being hated or denied due to the masculinity (or a trans woman who simply liked being masc)

The movement evolved from feminisim yet somehow lost the core of what feminism is

[ace-up-your-sleeve]

you can dislike men without shaming your friends for being attracted to them. especially if they are telling you about a guy they are interested in 🥰

[men-and-their-monsters]

One of the reasons I think it’s hard to talk about being a man under the patriarchy is because talking about it as a man also requires people that have an idea of what a man is that isn’t based on the patriarchy but also have the ability to understand and empathize with the fact that people - men in this case - can’t necessarily undo all the stuff they have internalized overnight, and sometimes it’s about making sure that nobody else falls for that trap.

Like a few months ago I was on a discord call providing a metaphorical shoulder for one of my bets friends to cry on, because a lot of shit was happening. And he was talking and he started to cry and then I felt the tears and then I changed the subject. Because I’m a coward. And in that moment it was more important to stop myself from crying than it was to comfort my best friend. That conversation should have lasted hours and instead it lasted 25 minutes and I hate myself for changing the subject. I was not the man I wanted to be, or aspired to be or needed me to be. I was the man I hated and resented and feared.

I bring all this up because the conservatives would make fun of me for struggling not to cry “what kind of man struggles not to cry, only real men are deserts” but there is the insidious other side where leftists tend to reside, where they will use the same language to berate men for struggling to cry. “Why can’t he accept himself and fucking cry” they will use the same language like “tough guys wear pink” “only cowards don’t cry”. They will talk about my toxic masculinity like it isn’t also trauma and violence and pain that I suffered. I didn’t do it because I wanted to, I did it because I had internalized the feelings of society and I still don’t know how to deal with that. I want you to… no i need you to understand that if I could have I would have just cried. That was the right thing to do. That was the human thing to do. That was the human thing to do. And yet, that was the thing that was violently beaten out of me as a kid. The reason I didn’t cry was because of the patriarchy and the societal forces it controls it’s the reasons a lot of men do or don’t do a lot of things and the same can be said for the rest of the human population. This goes unrecognized when we talk about men a lot of the time.

[milokissa707]

It’s actually normal and good to expect literally an entire gender to not have grievances for how their treated whenever a lot of fucking people blame them for everything wrong simply for their gender and to shame them into suppressing their emotions whenever they don’t like how the world treats them for simply having one gender over the others /s

I know right! We gotta be so progressive when we finally eliminate an estimated half of the population! Oh what you’re getting mad at me when say that I want to eliminate half of the human population, what do you mean I sound like a conservative! Lord, be damned if they ever try to talk about their experience, especially when they’re talking about their own experience with things like sexual assault or abuse, body shaming, or how the patriarchy hurts them too! How could they be so selfish to think that the patriarchy could even hurt them. They should not get mad at us when we say that they’re ALL biologically innately evil, rapist, hateful, and [insert other list of terrible characteristics that RF’s say], and Lord help if they say that the other part of the population can be those things too!Nope, nope, nope put all those emotions you feel and never talk to me again you evil evil dick haver!/sarcasm and joke! And then they’ll say this to someone who doesn’t have a dick or even once one!

But no seriously this is what I mean by hate rots you, including your ability to make coherent and actual points or to progress your advocacy(it will often times it will undermine your advocacy) . The idea that men don’t have issues, or what issues they do have should be ignored, never sat right with me. My mom taught me well in being kind to everybody and to come into conversations with good faith(there are obvious exceptions to this, but still). It’s this and years and years and years of social and emotional learning classes I had to take because I have antisocial traits and autism. I’m pretty sure half the world would benefit from like just one lesson for my social emotional learning teacher! Like sometimes we don’t need to share our opinions online, sometimes we should just keep our opinions in our lockboxes!

For me, patriarchy is such a systematic thing that the idea that it wouldn’t hurt men doesn’t actually compute with me! Like obviously men are going to have issues that come from that and they’re obviously people who don’t like masculinity(different expressions of masculinity, I use masculinity in this context as a single cohesion of all those different types of masculinity. Some are more accepted than others) and thus are going to be anti-masculine! And that obviously will affect all types of people, but it especially affects all types of trans people and inersex people! The idea that one type of oppression will only always affect XYZ group of people, almost always ends not to be true with their exceptions and exceptions to rules! Do you think he hate has rules, it has logic? The answer is no!

I only relatively recently came back to Tumblr, especially lgbtq+ Tumblr, I swore never to go looking at this place after the aspec discourse. But now that I’m old enough, now that I can stand up for the positions that I have, I am never shutting the fuck up! Also, I again think it is so funny that someone called me a terf, I mean by God, look at anything I’ve made! One of them take your pic!

[needytenshi]

local trans boy vents bla bla bla

i am SO tired of the people who claim transandrophobia/transmisandry/anti-transmasculinity/any term related to transmasc oppression “doesn’t exist” because its just transphobia bc apparently not a single person on earth hates trans men for being men, it’s just because we’re trans!

if i were not a man, i would not be trans.

if i were not trans, i would not be a man.

you cannot separate those from each other. i am not just trans. i am not just a man. i am a transgender man and both words are intertwined with each other in an inseparable way.

“nobody hates you because you’re a man. it’s because you’re trans.”

is it?

the people who say i should be a straight tomboy or a butch lesbian. “just because you dress up as a boy doesn’t mean you are one. it’s okay to like boy things and be a woman.”

the people who threaten me with violence. “oh since you wanna be a man, you can get your ass beat like one.”

the people who tell me i’m a traitor to women. “why would you choose to become the oppressor. kill yourself.”

the people who tell me to get raped.

the people who tell me to get assaulted.

the people who hope i get murdered.

the people who tell me to commit suicide.

the people who don’t think trans men exist.

the people who prioritize CHASERS above trans men.

the people who refuse to hear the cries of trans men when we are hurting.

the people who center other people in discussions about US and OUR oppression.

the people who believe we are worse than cisgender men because we “chose” to be men.

all of this is only because we are trans? not because we are transgender men?

at what point does it end? what will it take for people to listen to trans MEN about OUR fucking issues? when will people stop belittling us, mocking us, ignoring us, because we dared to have feelings about how we’re being oppressed?

ignoring us is the last fucking thing we need right now.

i’m tired of it.

[cios-correct-opinions]

"androphobia" doesn't exist. it's 'just' transphobia - which is bad! "transphobia that transmascs face" is just transphobia, no need for a special new word. i get people didn't want to say transmisandry because, well, misandry is fake and you sound just like a men's rights activist. but there is no "androphobia"