#anti masculinity

[majesticcorn2000]

people like to talk about how bad toxic masculinity is until they hear transmasculine people talking about their experience and suddenly it turns into "stop whining, you are A MAN"

[ugly-anarchist]

People on this site cannot or intentionally refuse to distinguish between systemic oppression and lateral mistreatment and it's a massive problem.

Me talking about how other queer people target me for having masculine traits isn't me saying that cisallohet perisex men are oppressed for being men and feminism sucks and lesbians are evil.

Me pointing out how late diagnosed autistic people treat me like an other for getting a diagnosis early isn't me saying late diagnosed people are privileged and have power over me.

Me saying that aroaces have mistreated me and pushed me out of aspec spaces as an alloaro isn't me saying that aroaces are my oppressors and they don't belong in aro spaces.

"Can the people who are in the same community as me but have different experiences please stop treating me like shit" isn't me saying that I'm the most oppressed person on the planet and no one but me suffers. I'm just asking you to stop treating me like shit. That shouldn't be a controversial statement.

Not everything is about privilege and oppression, sometimes people are just dicks and maybe it's you.

[atomicapplebees]

Never have I seen someone's idea of misogyny so fucked as when they come at trans men to say that "men and people aligning themselves with maleness have a responsibility to understand the potential they have to hurt women." No one else has that responsibility or potential, apparently. It blossomed within you the moment you decided to call yourself a man.

It fucking bothers me how misogyny has been watered down into "individual men oppressing individual women." It's not a societal problem that literally every one of us internalizes. It's not something weaponized against anyone perceived as a woman or even too feminine. It's the default state of people who identify as men.

If they can even admit that women can internalize misogyny, or weaponize it to empower themselves, or that men can also be targeted, it's not as bad I mean different (and barely worth mentioning).

Are we actually concerned with societal misogyny or do we want to pretend there's a singular Source so we don't have to think about it. Wait don't answer that.

[xmimikyuusx]

I had a longer post rattled off that I don't feel like posting anymore, but anti-masculinity in leftist spaces also means we need to stop being mean to teenaged girls that like yaoi, and we need to stop implying that loving fictional men means you hate women. Don't give me any "except for the people who-" I mean every single one.

[transfemme-shelterdog]

Maybe men and masculinity aren't inherently bad and we should be judging people by their individual character instead?

[shamebats]

So we do need political change, but I feel like I'm failing my boys if I'm somehow giving them the idea that revolution is their only hope. Cause here's the other thing, even if we did succeed at ending capitalism there would still be gender. And my boys would still need some model of what it is to lead a good life as a man. Now the other option the left has for disillusioned men is the feminist tranquilizer. We say "look, toxic masculinity is the reason you don't have room to express your feelings. And it's the reason you feel lonely and inadequate." So while feminism tells women "you hate your body and you're constantly doubting yourself because society did this to you and needs to change”, we kinda just tell men "you're lonely and suicidal because you're toxic. Stop it".  We tell them that they're broken without really telling them how to fix themselves. I think what we need is a new, positive ideal of manhood. Which I don't think is something that women cannot create for men, even if they wanted to. And honestly the best way for that to happen may actually be some kind of men's movement. But on the left the whole idea of a men's movement is basically taboo, because the men's movement we all know is basically just a backlash to feminism, and at worst it's just straight-up misogyny.  I think what would actually improve life for most men is a positive ideal of 21st century manhood (...) You have to help each other. So find each other in the comments section, meet up on Reddit, make friends, clean your room, leave the house, fuck each other. I don't know. It's worth a try.

- Men | ContraPoints

[milokissavlk707]

Let’s spin the wheel

Which one will the anons choose today, let’s see which one they pick



[ugly-anarchist]

This is what it feels like talking about antimasculinity within the queer community.

Disclaimer: This is a meme format and not The Best and Most Detailed explanation of antimasculinity ever.

[objection-u-a-bitch]

I seen you post about me hating.

I just like to say that I agree with it partialy.

Trans men are men, and disabeld men are men just like ableld bodied men (this includs trans men). But unlike cis, and ablebodid men, trans men and disabeld men are much more safer for women to be around. Trans men were treated like girls growing up, so they know what it's like, and we don't need to explain how we are viewed socialy. And we don't have to be sceard of disabeld men become they can't really hurt us the same way as able bodied men can. Like a man in a wheelcheir can't kill us with his own hands dou to phisical restriction he has.

And I still be sceard of Jewish, black, asian, ect, men because they are men. Like if I'm alone at night going home from work then I will be sceard of any men regardless of his religion, ethnicity (exept Russian, if you see a Russian no metter the genders they are defenetly up to no good), or race I will be sceard the same way.

And fat men are a mix bag. They are eather sweat guys who strougles with self esteem issues and deservs support, or a raging misogenist who hates on fat women.

I don't know what post I made that you think is about you. The post about needing to unlearn misandry to be an ally that is pinned to my account is directed at everyone in leftist circles, and not because of a singular post I saw anywhere. I made it over two months ago with regards to general frustrations I have with anti-masculinity in the queer community in particular, but also in other leftist circles. It's funny though that you saw that post and thought it was about you. I don't even know who you are. And you clearly aren't telling me, because you're on anon. I'm not going to spend the time telling you why all of your ask is horseshit. It just is. You treat minority groups like a monolith and use it to justify being scared and bigoted towards men of all kinds. You treat all trans and disabled men as nonthreatening, which is infantilising, while saying all Russians are dangerous, which is some McCarthyist Cold War red scare bullshit. You talk about fat men as if only the "good ones" deserve support. Men constitute approximately 50 percent of the world population. To hate, fear, dismiss, avoid, ignore, and insult them is incongruent with leftist ideas of making the world a better place for everyone. Men are as varied and complex as women. They can be as gentle or as aggressive as women can be. They can be as harmless or as dangerous as women can be. They can be as forward-thinking or as close-minded as women can be.

You can't treat men as a monolith, and you also can't divide men into neat little groups that you sort into "good" and "bad". Every person is an individual who can choose to do good or do bad. Some of the white able-bodied cishet men in my life are the most supportive and kind people I know, and I know some fucking vile disabled trans men who need to shut the fuck up.

Taking precautions for your safety at night is reasonable, just like putting your seatbelt on in the car is reasonable, just like putting a smoke and carbon monoxide detector on every floor of your house is reasonable. Treating all men like shit because a few of them could be bad is not.

[xxbl00dsh3dbunnyxx]

I hate the "kill all men" and anti-masculinity "movement"

I understand what exactly they're trying to go against, they are intending to try to push back against the oppressing cishet abled white men and rapists and pedophiles and abusers and things like that

But the whole movement has spiraled to hating masculinity and men as a whole which is harmful, as I said, I get their movement and what they're trying to push back against but they're not realizing how it might affect already marginalized communities of men AND women

If makes masculinity seem something that is negative at it's core when it isn't, which makes it harder for certain marginalized groups of men to embrace masculinity, like black men who are often demonized for their masculinity or asian men who are often infantilized by the media, or trans men coming to terms with their masculinity and manhood or native men who were historically seen as "savages" or dirty

And it affects groups of women who were also demonized, like black women who were always seen as "masculine" no matter what or maybe closeted trans women who had hidden themselves in masculinity to try to deny themselves and were now trying to come out but are scared of being hated or denied due to the masculinity (or a trans woman who simply liked being masc)

The movement evolved from feminisim yet somehow lost the core of what feminism is

[ugly-anarchist]

Me: I've been targeted by people for my perceived masculine traits. I've been told that my high T levels as an intersex person make me inherently more likely to be abusive, aggressive, or assault someone. I call this anti-masculinity because it feels like the most accurate term to describe my experiences and the way they align with what other queer people have also experienced.

Someone, for some reason:

[ace-up-your-sleeve]

you can dislike men without shaming your friends for being attracted to them. especially if they are telling you about a guy they are interested in 🥰

[rhouxl]

Thinking about reading a heartfelt poem in class, a specific line of the author calling her boyfriend an angel, and hearing a classmate, a bisexual woman, loudly proclaim "ew, imagine saying that about a guy".

Thinking about that same person saying that all men should die, and her being friends with multiple transmasculine nonbinary people, and wondering whether she hates them too or sees them as 'women light'.

Thinking about the same person questioning me on my dating preference, on being masc4masc, questioning why I don't like femmes better, being argued against on every point with "not every femme is like that though".

Thinking about expressing discomfort with this repeated sentiment to a different queer person, who is involved in running multiple queer groups, and being told "well, I don't really care".

Thinking about queer meet-ups labelled as being for "the shes and the theys", about trans women being a threat and trans men and butches ruining their femininity, about nonbinary people being expected to be petite and non-threatening and androgynous but never too masculine.

[cios-correct-opinions]

"androphobia" doesn't exist. it's 'just' transphobia - which is bad! "transphobia that transmascs face" is just transphobia, no need for a special new word. i get people didn't want to say transmisandry because, well, misandry is fake and you sound just like a men's rights activist. but there is no "androphobia"

[objection-u-a-bitch]

Two can play that game, babyboy. By telling women to be better about men you perpetuate the oppressive and outdated gender roles with women being the soft, understanding, patient (=defenseless and not allowed to express strong emotions) gender and men allowed to do fucking whatever except being normal human beings, as that's unmanly. And yeah, I don't care about man's political stance, race, orientation or whatever - I'm not leaving my pepper spray home if all the trans, black, and jewish men die out right this instant, and I won't if all the cis able bodied white men do. Equality!

lololol first of all don't call me 'babyboy' thats a sexual comment and you are a stranger to me

secondly it's like you don't read my post, you just wanna justify being a dick to men! i never said you should leave your pepper spray at home. i dont carry it personally, but i live in a safe area. taking precautions to ensure your safety in public is always justified, i would say, so long as that doesn't threaten the safety of said public by carrying genuine weapons around.

thirdly, treating trans men, black men, and jewish men poorly because they're men isn't equality. very likely by treating them poorly you are perpetuating transphobic, racist, or antisemitic behaviours that contribute to their oppression. makes you a piece of shit, to be honest.

lastly, if you think the only way to not be a dick to people for who they are is to fall back on traditional gender roles, thats on you, buddy. i managed for 20+ years and ive never in my life been described as soft, patient, or defenseless.

also, you're allowed to read a post you don't agree with and not come to me to argue about it. you know very well that by sending this to me you won't convince me that your misandry is justified. you just want to show your little radfem friends how good you've been about reaching your "dunking on men/trans people" quota for the week. which i think isn't a very mature response to a post that i think was very clear about what is expected behaviour in leftist spaces.

[athoughtaday]

Bản án vô hình của nam giới

Là một giáo viên thời vụ, tôi kết thúc buổi dạy bằng một bài kiểm tra nhỏ với phần thưởng là những chiếc móc khóa gấu bông cho 5 học sinh điểm cao nhất. Trong lớp có một cặp sinh đôi trai gái luôn quấn quýt bên nhau, nhưng chỉ cô em đạt điểm đủ để nhận quà.

Khi tan học, tôi tình cờ nghe thấy cuộc trò chuyện giữa hai đứa trẻ và bố của chúng. Cô bé hớn hở khoe phần thư��ng, mong đợi một lời khen. Nhưng người bố chỉ khen qua loa rồi quay sang cậu con trai, nghiêm giọng:

"Xấu hổ chưa, đàn ông con trai mà lại thua em gái mình?"

Cậu bé cúi đầu, cố gắng biện minh trong nước mắt. Thấy vậy, cô em gái lập tức đưa con gấu bông của mình cho anh:

"Em cho anh Bin này, tụi mình chơi chung cho vui."

Ánh mắt cậu bé lóe lên niềm vui chưa tròn ba giây thì lại bị bố dập tắt:

"Nín đi! Con trai kiểu gì động tí là rơi nước mắt!"

Người bố chở hai đứa nhỏ rời đi, để lại tôi đứng lặng dưới ánh đèn vàng, quẩn quanh với một câu hỏi: Vì sao một đứa trẻ không được quyền bộc lộ nỗi đau của chính mình, chỉ vì nó là con trai?

Có một sự thật đáng buồn là thế giới này không chỉ có định kiến với phụ nữ mà nó cũng đầy rẫy những áp đặt lên nam giới. Thế hệ chúng ta lớn lên trong một xã hội đề cao đấu tranh cho quyền bình đẳng của phụ nữ - và điều đó rất quan trọng. Những ít ai nhắc đến sự thật khác đó là nam giới cũng bị mắc kẹt trong những khuôn mẫu mà họ không tự chọn.

Về mặt sinh học, thực chất nam giới có mức độ kích thích sinh lý cao hơn nữ giới khi đối mặt với cảm xúc mạnh nhưng xã hội dạy họ phải “giữ trong lòng” những cảm xúc tiêu cực như nỗi buồn và lo lắng bởi không sẽ bị coi là yếu đuối. Các nhà lý thuyết phát triển tâm lý xã hội cho rằng trẻ em học các hành vi phù hợp với vai trò giới theo thời gian thông qua nhận thức, xã hội hoá và kinh nghiệm. Vì vậy đã có sẵn  “lược đồ” về giới của xã hội bấy lâu nay đã áp đặt lên các đứa trẻ, vai trò, hành vi được phân loại cụ thể đối với từng giới. Xã hội ở đây chính là môi trường giáo dục và gia đình tạo ra những chuẩn mực “đàn ông mạnh mẽ” cho những đứa trẻ từ nhỏ, dẫn đến sự kiềm chế cảm xúc ngay từ thời thơ ấu. 

Những hình mẫu trên màn ảnh cũng góp phần làm hình mẫu về nam giới trở nên vững chắc hơn. Khi từ nhỏ, những bộ phim về siêu nhân giải cứu người dân thường sẽ là nam giới và được khắc hoạ rắn rỏi, dũng cảm đối đầu với mọi hiểm nguy và không bao giờ rơi nước mắt. Khi lớn dần lên, những ngôi sao điện ảnh như Tom Cruise, Brat Pitt .. cũng đóng khung trong tâm trí khán giả về một hình mẫu nam giới với thể hình cường tráng, coi trọng sự nghiệp và có xu hướng khắc kỷ. 

Tôi bắt đầu quan sát nhiều hơn.

Những người đồng nghiệp nam xung quanh vốn trước đây tôi coi chẳng khác gì robot bởi họ dường như được lập trình cố định: Ăn - Ngủ - Đi làm. Một ngày nọ, trong lúc tranh thủ nhâm nhi tách cà phê trên tầng thượng trong giờ nghỉ trưa, tôi hỏi một cậu bạn làm cùng bộ phân với tôi nhưng hiếm khi nói chuyện: “Có cái gì làm cậu buồn được không ?”

Cậu cười, trả lời tôi một cách hiển nhiên: “Tụi tớ có khác gì con gái các cậu đâu, nhiều thứ khiến tớ buồn lắm, kể cả những việc nhỏ nhặt như cãi nhau với người yêu nữa ấy chứ. Chỉ là tớ không bộc lộ ra thôi, kiểu tụi tớ là thế. Nếu nói ra, người ta sẽ bảo đàn ông than thở lắm, vì vậy nếu im lặng, ít ra vẫn giữ được sự tôn trọng.”

Lúc đó, tôi nhận ra một sự thật đau lòng: Chúng ta đang cổ vũ cho phụ nữ được thể hiện cảm xúc, nhưng lại bắt đàn ông phải che giấu nó.

Bình đẳng không phải là nâng một giới lên và bỏ mặc giới kia. Bình đẳng là để mọi người đều có quyền được yếu đuối, được tổn thương, được lắng nghe mà không bị phán xét.

Bởi vì con người—dù là đàn ông hay phụ nữ—đều có cảm xúc. Và không ai đáng bị cô lập trong nỗi đau của mình.

Câu chuyện trên cũng chính là lý do tại sao tôi muốn tham gia cộng đồng “Bạn cùng Nhà”, tôi tin rằng thay đổi không đến từ những khẩu hiệu hô hào, mà từ những cuộc trò chuyện, những góc nhìn được mở rộng, và những hành động nhỏ bé nhưng bền bỉ. Chính vì vậy một không gian nơi mọi tiếng nói đều được lắng nghe, mọi quan điểm đều có cơ hội được thử thách, và những định kiến cũ kỹ sẽ được thay thế bằng những giá trị công bằng, văn minh.

Tôi không tìm kiếm một nơi chỉ để gật đầu đồng ý, mà mong muốn một môi trường nơi mỗi ý tưởng đều được đào sâu, mỗi câu hỏi đều đáng giá, và mỗi cá nhân đều có cơ hội đóng góp. Tôi kỳ vọng sẽ cùng mọi người xây dựng một hệ sinh thái an toàn—nơi mà sự tôn trọng là nền tảng, tranh luận là động lực, và thay đổi là mục tiêu chung. Tôi muốn cùng nhau quyết định chúng ta sẽ làm gì, ��i đến đâu, và tạo ra những ảnh hưởng gì—bởi một ngôi nhà thực sự không chỉ là nơi để trú chân, mà còn là nơi truyền cảm hứng để bước ra ngoài và thay đổi thế giới.