#because it’s such a common experience as a woman

[drdemonprince]

I really enjoy reading your takes about gender, sexuality, and kink-- even when I (occasionally) disagree they are always very thorough and insightful, and I get a lot out of your perspective, so thank you for sharing it here. (You also reblogged my wild ass post about Model UN and sexuality a while back and I appreciate that)

You have said a few times that you had very different experiences being seen as a man versus when you were seen as a woman, like night and day. I haven't experienced that at all-- essentially zero difference, even when I try to think about it carefully. I transitioned when I was 20 and have been on T for 6 years, and I pass as a (cis) man in most situations including at work.

I definitely don't say this to deny the existence of everyday sexism and misogyny. In college I often used the bus to get around and so did my girlfriend at the time, and she told me about multiple times people made creepy remarks to her on the bus or while out. But I've been in loads of situations like that and thankfully never been catcalled or harassed.

My question is about whether you think trans men with experiences like mine are more due to social ignorance (I definitely have trouble noticing other people's behavior around me in general-- maybe they did treat me weirdly and I didn't notice), my gender presentation at the time (my entire life I have been visibly "GNC" due to my failure to perform femininity. Long before I came out as trans, people did occasionally make negative comments about the way I spoke, dressed, or walked (???) being "unfeminine", or even if they didn't directly make negative remarks they were uncomfortable with me), because I never really considered myself a girl or woman, or something else. Obviously, the experiences I had where some people ostracized me in childhood for social difficulties being "a girl" are a type of sexism, but they are different from and less harmful than the type of sexism than most women and people perceived as women describe experiencing.

oh my god yes the sexy jingoistic model UN villain i love your whole deal. thanks for calling back in.

Yes I think it is all of the above! Just as many trans women experience gender-based oppression before they come out (even to themselves), some trans men do experience social treatment that just...isn't... what cis women undergo, regardless of how we might present at the time. This can be a complex melange of punishment for being GNC and some amount of protection from harassment or grudging respect of one's competence. It really depends!

People who are read as butch women by the larger world face horrific misogynistic abuses such as corrective rape, physical assault, and harassment, of course, but there are also some people who look that way or are on the trans masculine spectrum who are seen by those around them as "one of the guys" (not fully, but closer to), invisible in a somewhat positive way, or existing enough outside of the prevailing gender structure as to not be bothered a ton.

Much of this is shaped by forces like culture, class, and race. I've written about this before, but coming from a lower middle-class-to-working-class ish background, it was considered very normal for women to have masculine qualities, and indeed this was respected. If anything I was socially punished for my femininity not my masculinity, growing up. People responded well to my low voice, authoritativeness, etc. In the female-dominated spaces I have worked in (like psychology), this continued. I was both othered for being weird and bad at being a woman, and also taken seriously because I comported myself with masculine entitlement. All of this was before I transitioned at all.

I don't know your specific positionality but since you were a speech and debate nerd type as well, I imagine we have some experiences in common. The style of communication those fields promote are pretty androgynous or masculine, if you wanna call it that, and it's generally pretty well tolerated for a "woman" to like wearing suits, having a practical no-fuss haircut and style, to speak in a low voice, and to have certain masculine qualities. Not to mention all the roleplay you were doing in that position (because you were playing an evil American imperialist). There's a bit of a buffer you get from certain forms of sexism when you present in that way in that milleiu. I remember when I was doing speech and debate I consistently got really high scores and I was an aggressive, clipped, self-confident type in masculine suits. A peer of mine who was equally talented (class valedictorian, very skillful and brilliant) got awful ballots from judges commenting on how she dressed, the pitch of her voice, using the word "like" too much, etc -- she was a far more feminine woman than me. Little things like that stand out to me as reflecting male privileges I had all my life.

But of course, it's always a mix! Part of the reason I could 'get away' with positioning myself as a woman with masculine characteristics back then was that I could do so while still remaining conventionally attractive. I was thin, I had long hair, I still looked "pretty" without putting any energy into my appearance, I just carried myself in a masculine ish way. I was like Elizabeth Holmes or whatver. That is a VERY different position to be in than a fat butch woman for instance, especially one of color. So many factors here that intersect and complicate these things!

[transgenderer]

I feel like weird modern conceptual art, wrapping the reichstag or a pile of candy in the corner of a room, or events that happened once in the woods and were only photographed a few times, and traditional representative art, a painting of a woman, are fundamentally the same "kind of thing". And part of this is obviously a cultured response. But I think there's something real here, the connection feels so intuitive to me. I feel like I like them both in...not the "same way" but in similar ways

I think the commonality is..."Arranging things a particular way, for precisely the reason of them being arranged that way". The satisfaction of definite-rightness. Art, to me, is about...non-instrumentality. Terminality. Which I think is why it can be salvific? Really appreciating a piece of art is the archetypal experience that is good in itself. It pulls you out of the chain of cause and effect, of the ledgers of good and evil. There's just a thing, that a person did, because it was...correct, satisfying, "beautiful" to do it that way (obv there can be other motivations. But I think this needs to form the core, or it's empty). A thing that exists for itself. I guess this is also why I find art whose point is primarily political so tiresome. Like there's nothing wrong with it per se. But it wasn't made for the satisfaction of making a particular little part of the world just-right. It's been instrumentalized

[velvetvexations]

whenever I see the TMA/TME shit being thrown around, I'm just sitting in the corner with my head in my hands mentally begging the people who think it's good to get a grip already

oppression and marginalization and privilege are complicated and nuanced, and this doesn't suddenly just go away for trans people! the way trans people engage with gender and are treated by society is often complex and personal and dependent on any number of things, you can't just say "these things are transmasc and these things are transfemme and that's it"

just claiming that everybody who isn't a trans woman is "exempt" from transmisogyny is frankly an absurd statement to me. bigots often don't even care to know the distinction between "gay" and "trans", let alone the different flavours of trans identity! and even if they do, they don't target their bigotry based on "who specifically identifies as the people i hate", they look at anybody who seems close enough and go "oh they must be the people i hate"! despite how hate crime levels seem to be a common justification for arguments that "trans women have it worse than trans men actually"... do they think people would go "look, a trans woman, time to get to hate criming! oh, you're actually just a cis guy who likes to wear dresses? guess i'll just leave since you're exempt from the effects of transmisogyny."????

and that's not even touching on the way it's so frequently used like a fuckin shitty-ass replacement for agab-type terminology; heck, ive seen at least one person actually refer to it as a better replacement for agab! i'm nonbinary, i don't consider myself transmasc OR transfemme, stop trying to shove me into a yet another shitty little reductive dichotomy! i'm already rejecting the idea that i need to have "M" or "F" assigned to me, i shouldn't need to disclose my agab so they can decide whether or not i get an "A" or an "E" instead! at least agab stuff doesn't inherently make assumptions about my identity and experiences as a trans person!

The idea is that only trans women are "targeted" by transmisogyny, but this is ridiculous, because cis crossdressers are just as in the line of fire. A drag queen is the same thing as a trans woman to cis transphobes. They do not care about our internal sense of self. Similarly, they do not care that trans men are not trans women. They don't. You can tell them you aren't a trans woman when they beat up because you advised to use the woman's bathroom. They don't care.

[utilitycaster]

ok I'm getting some extremely missing the point notes on my Nein gender presentation post so this is a very informal, extremely basic, "I do not have a gender/queer studies degree so there is certainly nuance I am missing," rundown. Obviously there's overlap, but they are separate interrelated concepts.

Gender presentation is how you present - the face you put to the world - appearance, and the basics of how you talk and act. A butch trans woman, a butch cis woman, a transmasc nb person, and a genderfluid person on a particular day might all present rather similarly! However, they do not share the same gender identities. My post is about presentation - Fjord putting a very masculine presentation forward, Beau being interested in masculine presentation despite identifying throughout as a woman, Veth as a metaphor in disguising herself as halfling early on.

Gender identity is who you are. Your identity and presentation often line up, but not necessarily! This becomes obvious if someone deliberately changes their presentation either voluntarily (genderfluid people have an identity that often involves presenting differently depending on how they feel that day) or involuntarily to avoid discrimination (a trans person presenting as their birth gender to avoid a confrontation in an unsafe place). The identity does not change - a trans woman who needs to present as a man temporarily does not stop being a trans woman.

Gender roles/norms are often about preferences, associations, and cultural stereotypes about gender (particularly when perceived as a binary, even though, obviously, it is not). Math, physical labor, and dominance (for example) are typically seen as masculine. Crafts, caretaking, and submission are typically seen as feminine. Blue is a boy color and pink is a girl color. The post mentioned in one of the reblogs, about Caleb Widogast's story being one often given to female characters, fits here. Caleb himself presents as a man; you can read him as either cis or trans as neither is, if I recall, hard-confirmed, but he was a teen boy when the events of his backstory occurred; his presentation and his identity are both consistently that of a boy or man. This can bleed into or affect presentation, ie, many boys refusing to wear pink because they see it as a girl color, or women who are more stoic getting called cold whereas men who are more stoic getting approval for the same exact behavior, but "being good at/interested in math" is not an element of presentation.

Everyone has a gender presentation and identity, and every culture has ideas of gendered behaviors, though what is seen as what gender (and the idea of gender as a binary in the first place) shifts with time and place. Cis heterosexual people have a gender presentation and identity; it's just usually "that of their assigned gender at birth" (and even then, there are cis het people who are gender non-conforming in various ways even as they identify as their birth gender).

And finally, as a bit of a coda, there's also "experiences that are associated with queer people, either in terms of gender or sexuality, but are not themselves proof positive of a queer identity." The really obvious one, and I will use Caleb again, is that Caleb does not go by his birth name. "Bren" is not his deadname. He stopped using it because he was a fugitive; it is utterly unrelated to a change in his gender identity. The act of changing one's name is both a practice that is 100% a very common trans experience, and also, some people just do it for other reasons, so it is undeniably relatable to many trans people but having a changed name does not automatically mean the former one is a deadname, which is unique to trans people. I've used this example before but a lot of queer people relate to tieflings; however, so did Unati, an (afaik straight and cis) black African woman, for similar reasons of being othered. Relatable/metaphorical does not necessarily mean canonical nor exclusively that reading - to be clear, again, a reading of Caleb as trans or a reading of tieflings as queer metaphor are both valid, but neither are the sole valid reading.

[cherienymphe]

When I first followed you a year and a bit ago I was still in a place where I was so ashamed of these fantasies I’d had as earliest as my first sexual fantasies. Not a soul in my personal life knew but this space and just tumblr in general was the first discourse I engaged in with normal gals like me that happened to like the same thing that made me feel so guilty and ashamed and for the first time I started to question that guilt and shame.

The first person I told irl was my therapist and mostly because I felt like it was something about myself that I needed to fix. Because what kind of person gets aroused at the idea of being forced or violated or abused? But my angel of a doctor instead informed me that this sort of fantasy is normal and can even be explored safely and then we started to do the work to understand why I had these fantasies.

I realize now that I was having these fantasies because I grew up in an environment where I felt a lot of shame and guilt around sexuality in general. So it felt like the only way I could experience guilt-free arousal was in these pretend scenarios where it “wasnt my fault” cause “I had not choice”. Obviously as I got older and understood what that meant I felt so ashamed. And then when my first sexual experience wasn’t consensual (which was obviously not pleasurable at all) I felt like I had manifested it and hated myself even more.

The main point of me sharing all this was because while I’ve also found lot of comfort in this community, I’ve witnessed you and other writers being harassed for writing non con stories. Something that I would say is arguably the safest and most ethical way to explore this common but taboo kink. And I think a lot of people who comment stuff about how “sick it is” or how you’re “glorifying rape” are probably people who have found your page because they themselves are curious but they attack you to deal with their own shit and blame you as the writer instead of taking responsibility for the content they engage in. But I wanted to share a connection I made in therapy:

I’m an actor and if I’m playing a woman who whose dog has died. I, as the actor, know I don’t even have a dog but I’ll say the lines and feel the feelings and my nervous system doesn’t know the difference. And after the scene is done I, the actor, can wipe my tears and go “that was so much fun. Let’s do it again!” And that doesn’t mean that I want my dog, that I don’t have, to die, or that I find pleasure in other people’s dogs dying. But it was thrilling and cathartic to pretend those were my circumstances in a safe environment

I know this was a hella long question that wasn’t even a question but that connection really helped me understand this all better and helped with my guilt so maybe it might help others. Or offer another explanation why people have fantasies like this

I remember first learning about the connection between certain fantasies and guilt free arousal where you're not in control and it made a lot make sense 😭 of course I feel I'm past that for the most part irl and I actually enjoy having autonomy and the choice in my own sexuality and what not but obviously it's still something I fantasize about. Writing about taboo topics is also cathartic for me sometimes. I remember specifically being in a weird/bad headspace when I wrote SLTS and immediately after writing it, I felt so much lighter and better

Also yeah for argument's sake if someone is just wholly against someone having rape fantasies, writing about it is arguably the least harmful way to explore them 😭 it's very much a non problem problem like of all the things in this world some woman writing about her being chased through the woods by Steve Rogers is just nowhere near the list of things to worry about

[ira-dunfort]

"Are you selling fetish potions, Malfoy?”

This will either be the start of a PWP, or will get built into my current project in some way or another.

- - - - - - - - - -

“Are you selling fetish potions, Malfoy?”

“I’m not, you pervert. I run an upstanding apothecary specialising in fertility potions. I'm helping to repopulate the wizarding world.”

Potter grinned like the git he was and dropped the Iconic Draconic Tonic pamphlet on the narrow table in Draco’s tiny kitchen in the back of his shop. “Explain how this one works,” he suggested, tapping at the swaying picture of an oval flask labelled ‘Ovum Donum.’

Draco rolled his eyes. Potter was too lazy to read again. “Well, for two women who want to start a family, this is the best choice. Several eggs of the one taking the potion get encapsulated and transfigured into sperm. Then, they can be safely transferred from her into the partner, positioned at the cervix, where they will pop” – he made an innocent gesture with his hand for demonstration – “and release the now-sperm to create a new magical life with the egg of her partner. All in the privacy of their home, no healer needed.”

“That’s ovipositor kink, Malfoy.”

“It is not!” Malfoy insisted. “Simply because I don't even know what that entails, hence I couldn't incorporate it into my delicate work.”

Harry sipped his tea, the rim of the cup barely hiding his far too amused smirk. “What does the common overdose look like?”

Draco hesitated. Overdoses were common, and his customers came back far too quickly. He knew what happened from Pansy in too much detail. His dear friend hadn’t heeded any of his warnings, as always. Taking too much wasn’t all that dangerous; it was only incredibly overstimulating, teetering on torturous if the partner didn’t know how to handle it.

Harry leaned onto the table, his elbow pushing the crate of flasks further to the edge, much to Draco's despair. “Shall I read the effect off of this handy sheet you include with every bottle?”

The potions master held a hand up to stop him. He knew the side effects by heart. He had invented this potion, after all. “Enlarged, elongated clitoris that can be used to position the sperm balls deep –”

“You're running a fetish apothecary,” Potter cut him short.

“I am not!” Draco spat. This accusation was outrageous!

“Next one, tell me about the omega thing,” Harry urged him on, flipping the pages of the pamphlet to ‘Draconis Lupin Omega’, Draco’s first foray into the fertility potions niche.

“For a woman, a minimal dose will lead to ovulation within minutes, helpful if she has trouble with that due to medical reasons or age,” Draco began. “But for a man, the dose needs to be several times higher. He'll quickly develop, say, receptive organs. Depending on the dose, either sex will experience an intense urge to be with the one they love –”

“– and have them fuck them for hours until the fertilised egg is nested into the womb tissue, magical or natural,” Harry finished, raking his eyes over Draco. “Nothing kinky about that?”

Draco gulped. There was no need to put this act into such crude words. “This is how nature takes its course among werewolves, which I carefully adapted into this potion, and the other.”

Harry leaned back in his chair and folded his hands over his lap. “Explain the other one, then.”

Malfoy took a triangular bottle from the crate and held it up. “Draconis Lupin Alpha is a potion that increases sperm count for those unable to sire offspring otherwise. Very popular among older wizards.”

Harry leered. “Does it lead to, you know–” His hands made the most vulgar movements, imitating a bulbous knot swelling.

Draco gulped. Now, there was an image in his mind he couldn’t shake. “Only if a too-high dose is taken.”

The Gryffindor shook his head and smiled at him. “And customers tend to do that a lot 'accidentally’?”

Draco stirred his own tea, long cold, since Potter kept distracting him with dumb questions and too-tight jeans. “Those idiots do it so often I sell a small vial with the antidote alongside it. Some claim their partners are too aroused to count the drops.”

“I bet that antidote stays untouched a lot.”

“Yes, but –” Draco heaved a heated sigh, still not rid of the mental image, “– only because the knot does go down on its own. After several orgasms.”

“You're selling fetish potions, Malfoy,” Harry practically sang and re-heated the other’s tea with a quick flick of his wrist.

“Am not!” Draco mumbled petulantly into his cup.

Harry shuffled his feet under the small table, brushing a foot against Draco’s ankle by chance. “How many customers buy both, either Alpha or Ovum combined with Omega?”

Fuck. Draco had sold hundreds in the wake of Valentine's.

“What are you getting at, Potter?”

“Just interested,” the brunette shrugged, nonchalant, but the rising colour in his cheeks gave him away.

“In buying?” Draco inquired, hating how his voice probably wasn’t hiding how anxious he was, thinking that Potter would buy from him and then go shag someone else.

“In you, Malfoy.”

[verafranks]

Relationships I would’ve preferred to see in Veilguard; {warning, there will be spoilers for the game} [also note that I haven’t finished veilguard yet, Elgar’nan just resurrected his dragon in my playthrough] <also, also note that I don’t necessarily think there should be non-rook relationships for all of these characters, but these are the ones I like better than what we got> {also, also, also note that as I play more of the game, I’m starting to prefer the idea that the Veilguard companions are just one big polycule with Rook in the center and their own complex interactions around that primary relationship}

Bellara and Neve; (I only just got to the funeral part, so Bellara calling them sisters might make this weird, but meh, it’s been in my brain for more than 80 hours, so one line isn’t going to change it any time soon). I think Bellara’s happy go lucky and optimistic personality would be good for Neve, while Neve’s more down to earth and realistic personality would help keep Bellara grounded. I also think it would be easier for Bellara to relocate to Minrathous and still be able to do the things she loves because we all know Neve can’t be pried out of that city for anything short of the end of the world (and even that won’t be enough to impress her a second time).

Lucanis and Emmrich; I love their banter and I hate who they end up with in game if not with Rook. I think Lucanis would do a great job helping Emmrich come to terms with his fear of death and Emmrich is already doing, but could do so much more, with helping Lucanis come to terms with his feelings and what happened to him. Plus, they’d both romance the hell out of each other, and that’s what they both need. Their in game partners are the easy way out for both of them. Neve and Lucanis would never truly open up to each other and neither could leave their city, so their relationship would fizzle out from too much time away and not enough connection (lovers to roommates to nothing). Strife is too hard for Emmrich and wouldn’t be able to be the emotional safe space he needs.

Taash and Davrin (or Lace and Taash and Davrin); I know I’m going to get a lot of heat for this one (no pun intended), but I’m kind of sick of every AFAB non binary or FTM person ending up with a woman because it all boils down to the idea that masculine energy needs feminine energy, which is bullshit. (I also get that someone who is AFAB ending up with a man doesn’t feel like good representation) Don’t get me wrong, Lace and Taash’s relationship is growing on me, but I kind of love Taash and Davrin’s dynamic more. He’s always treated Taash as capable and equal and, as far as I’ve seen, hasn’t had any hang ups about their gender expression. I like that they have monster/dragon hunting in common. I like that they’re similar in personality but different in how the express themselves. I always feel like Taash and Lace are one argument away from crashing out, while I think Davrin would take Taash’s anger in stride, be there while they feel their feelings, and then help them through the other side. NGL though, I’m starting to think the three of them together might be a pretty good relationship dynamic too.

Lace and someone from the Inquisition; I don’t actually have anyone in mind here, but our poor girl Lace misses home. I think she would do well with someone from the Inquisition who can commiserate with her about what happened but still have her experiences be unique. Maybe they came up with the Inquisitor and that’s how it all starts.

Lace and Stalgard; she wants a deeper connection with the dwarves…need I say more? They’d also make the cutest ginger babies!

[nozomi-incel]

i openly post about idolizing elliot rodger and hating women, what the fuck are you talking about? Granted I am a hypocrite, but if you couldn't tell by my posts alone that I was gonna be an asshole then that is your problem.

I guess you're right about that, i apologize. I guess this is just evidence that my social cues are shit (it happens a lot, and I've gotten in trouble for it. It's even one of the reasons I am in incel in the first place)

Also, I don't know much about elliot rodger but he seems cool as fuck from what I've heard. If only he were alive to see what he would've become.

Female and male fakecels only exist because of their high standards that they themselves cannot reach, I am not saying they should give up on finding their desired partner, but if you are a person that calls themselves an 'incel' and desires a 10/10 disney princess/prince stacy/chad while being below that standard yourself... then you are a fakecel.

I only brought up the whole disney princess thing because it was a childhood dream of mine that gave me false hope for the future, a mere fantasy I know damn well will never come true.

I never said I was attracted to the guys in those stories.

Infact my standards for a partner are practically lower compared to other women my age, partially because I lowered them voluntarily in hopes it would increase the chances of me finding a partner. (I have a detailed description on what my type is in my pinned post if you wanna take a look)

Also, as a ransom note: I've recently just started coming to the realization that all the "relationships" I've been in were all just glorified friendships with sex jokes every here and there, and that i've never actually "dated" anyone (which is weird to think about, but it is what it is)

I agree with the other guy, male and female incel problems are entirely different. Most people need to accept that.

You're right about that too. Infact I suggested on making a separate tumblr group for femcels so that we can both talk about our experiences without accidentally invalidating the other's experience. The admin of the original "incels of tumblr" group said that it wasn't necessary, but I personally think it'd be a good idea givel hot differently the femcel and incel communities behave.

What do you think?

I don't gaslight people into believing that women are the sole reason why incels exist. I blame the biology coded by mother nature, not the creation itself.

i wish you explained this earlier, and I thank you for clarifying. Admittedly you had me convinced that you were blaming women for your inceldom (a common stereotype made against incels by moids and foids who want to invalidate our experiences), and I can see now that it was just a big misunderstanding.

No amount of stories about your childhood disney fantasies will convince me to feel bad for anybody, woman or man. Nor will you telling me your reason of inceldom; nobody asked to be an incel/femcel. I have never had any hope even as a teenager or child, recognizing the pattern of the blackpill earlier in life will help desensitize you from the propaganda normies use.

I'm aware. I'm just sick and tired of people dismissing my celibacy because they think i'm "too pretty" to be an incel (they don't know that inceldom is caused by anything beyond the person's control, appearance being common, yes, but things like disability and mental health issues can also cause it)

Also, i've been thinking about getting into the blackpill because I'm sick of foids constantly trying to tell me what to think and what to feel simply because they view me as lesser than due to my autism (a stigma i've faced my entire life), and because most of the trauma I've sustained in my life came from women (with the very rare exception of a few men), but I was always blamed for it anytime i spoke out about it because radical feminists have you believe that women are incapable of abuse (when in reality, they are just as capable of it as anyone else).

Do you have any recommendations for people that are new to it and haven't been desensitized by the normie propaganda yet?

Remember, in the incel community, NOBODY IS SPECIAL. We are all the same, we are all lonely, depressed virgins in here that fantasize about the same love we see in media. We are all doomed to be alone. One of the few ways you can escape the curse of inceldom is through a miracle.

I'm aware. I do wish that I could stop getting my hopes up constantly, knowing that it never comes true. It's a really bad habit that the foids in my life have been planting into my head since my days in the SPED classes (grade school), and it always manages to make depressed anytime i found out the truth.

Also, the whole "fantasizing about the same love we see in the media" thing is (as I explained earlier) what I meant when I brought up the disney princess thing.

The incel community already has a stained reputation on the internet and in the real world, no amount of text will convince normies that a percentage of incels are innocent and kind. The only way you could wash the stain off is by inviting tourists and letting them change every single aspect that makes the incel community so special.

I know, and I know there's nothing I can do or say to change that. Infact, when I first started accepting my inceldom and actively talking about it online, i lost a friend of mine i've been close with since I was 12 (that asshole can go fuck himself after he got the cops called to my house and told them I was sexually assaulted knowing damn well I've never been touched by a guy before and never will unless some crazy miracle happens that gets a guy to molest me or some shit)

Nobody is stopping you from coping, you all can cope all you want. The cope I use is determinism, no matter how much you seethe and cry about your loneliness. No man or woman will feel bad for you, that is the reality of the incel.

I never said that there was anything stopping anyone from coping, I was mention it to highlight how everyone's experience as an incel is different.

Other than that though, i do agree.

You don't introduce the incel community to anybody, people will find it by themselves when looking for minds that think alike. [⬛💊]

I see.

Me personally I started learning about inceldom after hearing about some of the rumors regarding yanderedev (who's no longer involved in or associated with the incel community, but I've heard about his experiences with it and found them extremely relatable)

Some people escape the state of incelism, some people stay with it till death, waiting for a person to come along and save them from the inevitable rope in their closet while time marches on.

Those stories have always been pretty wholesome to me, and it sucks knowing the majority of people in the incel community never actually get to experience that freedom.

It's why I've stopped trying to recover from my mental health issues after I quit my last therapist, because i'm always forced into a loop of thinking that everything's gonna get better and that I'll actually have a future worth living for n shit, only to have something super traumatic happen to me and then boom! i'm back where I started nearly 5-6 years ago with no way to recover from it.

Also, as a final note: even if I weren't an incel like all the foids and moids are saying (which i am an incel and have proven to be one, but let's just say that i'm not in this scenario), the incel community (or at least the femcel community in particular) is the only place where I actually feel like I belong in and feel understood in.

I'm too weird for normal friend groups, I'm too "problematic" for fandom spaces (including obscure ones that are dying), hell, even other SPED kids don't want to be around me, which is an extremely isolating feeling considering I've grown up as one of them since fucking preschool.

I'm basically outcasted from any other group.

This community is all i have. If I lose this too, I see no other option.

I just wish I didn't feel so alone..

Anyway, thank you for clarifying on a few things that I didn't understand at first, and I hope you have a good day.

Men can't be "incels"

Men literally cannot be incels. The word "incel" doesn't even have merit. The term is actually "invcel" and it was created by a woman. Men colonized women's spaces of being disgusting and untouchable. Men should be correctly referred to as "mencels." It is not fair to push women out of a space that originally belonged to them by calling them "femcels".

[wavesoutbeingtossed]

All the talk today about a man having the luxury of dating younger while getting older to delay growing up (marriage, kids, etc.) reminds me of George Clooney. He had a short marriage when he was in his late 20s/early 30s (before his career blew up) and then was known as the most eligible bachelor and even made bets with people like Nicole Kidman and Michelle Pfieffer that he'd never get married again. He dated many women, some of which were even older than him, but the majority were not. He became engaged when he was 53 and his future wife 36. On paper, it seems like she's "old" but he is 17 years older than her. He became a first-time father at the ripe old age of 56. He could do this because he is a man. Who did not have to worry about aging like a woman. Or having children in his 50s.

Hollywood (and the world in general) is full of stories like that. Men have the luxury of time that women don’t in that situation. They have the luxury of getting their shit together (or not) on their own timeline. It’s sad and unfair but also true, and I have seen this happen in my real life with friends.

I feel a whole rant, or at least stream of consciousness, brewing about the ways in which people of childbearing age who wish to experience that are in just such a no-win situation, especially in the public eye. Voice that you want it and you may get labelled desperate or traditional or whatever. Voice that you don’t and you’re attacked as a threat to society or immature. It makes it so hard to have discussions (eg in relation to TTPD or Taylor’s discography at large) because it’s so fraught and involves all kinds of sociological constructs. And again: it’s something that isn’t given a second thought for men.

[nothorses]

hot take but I think the "we're only talking about people who identify as queer when we talk about the queer community" thing was and is one of the worst arguments in defense of the word.

I am talking about you when I say "the queer community", and "queer people", and "queer studies". I'm describing a thing that a large group of people have in common, and you share that thing in common. Your individual comfort with the word doesn't change the definition of it.

I'm sorry you don't like that word. You don't ever have to call yourself that, and you don't have to like it, and I won't ever call you that if you don't want me to.

What I am going to do, however, is decide what language I use based on A) how inclusive it is, and B) how well it communicates my point to the relevant audience.

"Inclusive" here is an important criteria; this refers to the number of people who should be included, that are included, ideally without some kind of weird hierarchy (like we see in "LGBT+" and variations). The technical definition is what we're talking about here- putting personal comfort aside, could the word "queer" describe you?

There will always be someone who doesn't like a particular word for themselves- even if it could apply. Lots of people don't like "LGBT+" (I don't really), even if it technically applies to them. You're not more important than they are.

You can identify one way on a personal level, and still understand that when we're discussing the larger community of people and the histories attached to it, you're included in that- even if you don't personally identify with the specific word we're using. Your story, your voice, and your presence matters.

Y'all need to learn to distinguish "broad term for an experience I share with others" from "personal identity label I use to describe my individual experience to others". ASAP.

[fallloverfic]

Thinking about how people assuming Seth isn't into men is also a big reason why Osiris is an idiot, and Ra called Osiris out on that line of thinking in S02E78. In fact, she calls him, "Arrogant, foolish Osiris" (among other things) for this. Like that just happened in canon and I guess folks slept through that episode because people keep insisting he only loves Nephthys/is straight/can't like men.

Like people say "Seth isn't gay" and I think that's fair, but I don't think he's het, either. He doesn't evince interest in women generally. Osiris assumes Seth does because Osiris doesn't understand love. To him, Seth must be into goddesses solely because they can have babies.

Osiris does not comprehend that it isn't Nephthys' gender that attracts Seth to her: it is herself as a person. Osiris has no regard for that. He does not fathom Seth as a complex person with agency. To Osiris, "to love someone is to expect something from them." (S01E49). He catalogues people into capabilities: if I could provide the same things for Seth, Seth would love me. This disregards any relationship Seth might have with Osiris, Nephthys, or anyone else. He stole Seth's seed for who knows how many years. He removes Seth's agency in many ways.

This is a really common romance trope with the obsessive non-partner: "I'm better looking, I can provide more/the same, why do you love [love interest] and not me?"

Because the person they're pursuing has agency and love is complicated. This thinking ignores that. It treats people as goals to be reached or objects to be won.

Osiris sees no issue with this, despite his alleged wisdom, because "love" as he understands it, is "a selfish emotion that feeds on personal gain." (S01E49). Osiris is being selfish, and he'll do whatever he has to, destroy whoever and whatever he needs to, in order to achieve the object of his desire that is Seth. As Ra says, Osiris is "a rotting fruit" who "rot[s] those around" him. (S02E78).

So far as we can tell, Seth isn't in love with women generally. The only other woman to whom he potentially showed any sexual advances was maybe Isis? (Seth to Isis, "I had asked you to sleep with me." S01E39). But we don't actually know how he framed that offer/request when he tried to get her to join him in revenge, let alone if he actually wanted to sleep with her or just wanted to get revenge on Nephthys and/or Osiris, or if he just convinced himself that's what he was asking Isis to do and that's part of why Isis rejected him. We do know he's in love with Nephthys (S01E49). Or was in the past. Lately, he cares for Horus. I would argue he's demi-bisexual or demi-pansexual, but also isn't a person who's into labels. Not everyone is. Queerness is a spectrum.

Yes, he calls relations between male humans disgusting in a spur of the moment thought in S02E36, and that's sort of it. Seth generally thinks ill of humans, and he's not given to think kindly of Horus at the time, either. That's also not definitive. He changes (S02E70). He also would not be the first person in existence to internalize bigotry that would possibly target himself. Plenty of marginalized people are/act bigoted against their own people/themselves. At the time, Seth was also ill and trapped in a stronghold of people who hate him, safe on the kindness of humans. There are so many reasons that he might respond weirdly or not in a way that reflects his entire state of mind about his own wants. No one was asking him, "Are you gay?" or even "Would you date and/or fuck a guy if you had a chance?" Horus was carrying on a facade to fool Hanekate in a complex situation that Seth hated for many reasons, and Seth was understandably shocked.

I don't think he likes men generally. I think his body reacts to things (Osiris, Foreign God), as bodies tend to, which doesn't necessarily mean anything about his sexuality. But his being into Nephthys also kind of says nothing about his wants. He wants Nephthys. The person. Not a gender. His lack of being into a specific gender generally does not mean he solely likes women or cannot be into men or must be forced into it or something. He loves people on an individual level.

When he rejects Osiris, it's not because Osiris is male, but because Seth cares platonically for Osiris solely as a brother and monarch.

Osiris to Seth in S01E41: "What am I... ...to you? Am I just the king that rules over the land that you protect? Am I just your brother born from the same womb? What about besides that? Have you ever even thought of me as something more?"

Seth: "Why do you need to be more than that?"

Ra to Osiris in S02E78, "You think that Seth turns away from you because you are also a male god? And you think Seth desires female gods because of their power of creation? . . . If that is the conclusion you have come to, then it is proof that you are already breaking down."

It's all right there. It didn't need to be that overt because you can see it in the rest of the story, too, but the overtness is now there. Clear as day. Osiris' line of thinking about Seth's affections is wrong. And to imitate that is foolish.

It's Seth's deep love for individuals that allows him to open his heart to Horus (S02E70). Osiris and even Nephthys do not see Seth for who he is. Horus does. He refuses to forget. And that's why Seth cares for him, because it's Seth's deepest wish (S01E40-1).

In sum, assuming Seth loves Nephthys because she's a woman and this is the end-all statement about his sexuality/interests will get Ra to laugh at you just like she laughed at Osiris for assuming basically the same thing.

(Also assuming all protagonists and/or love interests in boys love stories have to be gay to have relationships with other men is really weird. Plenty of protagonists are bisexual, pansexual, undeclared, or questioning)

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[edwinisms]

i like to think, as a hc or a theory (because it’s definitely possible), that charles has had a few kisses throughout his high school years, sure, but past that he’s undeniably a virgin– well, kind of undeniably, because I think he’d deny it if found out by trying to use technicalities (“I mean that one time there was friction involved–“), but to any reasonable person, and by occult standards (see: edwin being a virgin sacrifice), he’s a virgin.

and i think this because it seems like him to fib about his level of experience (like he did when agreeing he’d sleep with crystal, matching her level of casualness about it) when in the presence of people who do, actually, have experience, in the hopes he doesn’t come off as lame or childish. given what we know about his “friends” when he was alive, they seem like the type to have teased or bullied boys– especially in their own circle– who haven’t gotten laid, or at the very least would’ve thought less of someone for it. and given what we know about charles, i don’t think he’d be nearly as sleazy and inconsiderate as his group when it comes to landing girls with the primary intention of adding to his body count. and considering he’s only supposed to be 16? and has never mentioned any significant relationships pre-death? it just seems unlikely.

all that to say– I can see him maintaining that facade of experience and confidence literally right up until the moment it matters, and in the heat of the moment getting nervous and embarrassed because “uhhh. so I may have been exaggerating some things.” though he’s not totally clueless either, I think it’d take a bit of a soft heart to heart moment for him to be reassured enough that he won’t fuck up and hurt his partner to go any further.

anyway not sure what the relevance of this is, but it’s something.

[gay-otlc]

Perpetually baffled by the fact that people seem to think "I never felt like a girl/woman" is a rare transmasc experience? Like. Dude. Quite a lot of transmascs feel that way. I really don't think that's an uncommon way to be transmasc??

[lollytea]

Tbh I think the Barbie movie handled its theme of existentialism better than the feminism.

[doux-amer]

I think the reason why I'm indifferent towards Ms. Huang is that while everyone finds her unsettling, I've come across enough young people like her irl (that doesn't mean that this is common) and in the media that I just think she's...normal isn't the right word, but I'm not like "I need to know what the hell is wrong with her. I'm fascinated" about her. She just comes off as a high school kid or even college student who applied for her first job/internship at a hell-like company and is a corporate bootlicker and rule-follower (VERY curious to know how old people think she is versus...how old she comes off to Asian viewers lol. They clearly cast her partially because she's babyfaced, but I'm not like, "Is she 12 or something?").

To be fair, this is almost entirely because she barely has a personality or any scenes beyond "look at this narc snitch teacher's pet hallway monitor kid" and "there's a kid....AT LUMON! That is WEIRD, right?!" versus Milchick while he was the supervisor who also enforced the rules but had much more to do. Obviously that's deliberate and there's something going on re: Ms. Huang being treated like a teenage babysitter. This isn't just any floor at Lumon, and she believes in the cult of Kier, seeing how she plays with her little Kier games at her desk (but then again, it's not like she can do anything a teen would normally do at Lumon), so it's not like she's some kid who applied for a part-time job to make money and for her college application/resume. But this is the extent of her character so far versus, say, Gemma who was equally as mysterious but enthralling because she was SO weird even in the little time we spend with her in S1.

Ms. Huang is there, it's messed up and weird that a kid's working at Lumon and as part of management at that, and I guess we'll find out the mystery at some point. But it's not something I'm thinking about much. I don't find her all that strange for all that she's supposed to be strange.

[cervinae-canine]

i hope it's okay to say this here because i saw the post you made about heavymedic shippers but as a woman who selfships with them as a polycule it honestly hurts me alot when people say that women are not allowed to ship themselves with medic or heavy because they're gay and wouldn't like them back. these characters make me happy. why am i not allowed to find comfort in them? because it goes against your made up headcanons? i don't understand why people have such a superiority complex over something as up to interpretation as fictional characters' sexualities.

it's the misogyny.