#batfamily vs avengers

[geeky-nightphilosopher]

In a made up world that I created where the Batfamily fights the Avengers;

I'm not saying Cassandra Cain- Black Bat, the Apple of Bruce Wayne's eye- could take Natasha Romanoff...

What I am saying is; my money is on Cass.

[could-they-be-a-pro-wrestler]

Event poll series: Fictional King & Queen of the Ring

Match 3: Damian Wayne (c) vs. Tony Stark for the Universal Championship

STORYLINE (click here for previous poll): This is a rematch from Fictional Backlash

[necrotic-nephilim]

@sasheneskywalker i love when you enable me to ramble about things because oh my god do i have thoughts.

so recently, i made a post discussing the phenomena of DC x DP and DC x MLB crossovers and why they exist and part of that post was discussing how largely speaking, at least half, if not more of the Batfamily fandom doesn't read the comics. if they interact with canon DC material, it's adaptations that are their own sequestered universes and oftentimes not remotely comic accurate or seeking to be. the most obvious example is the Young Justice cartoon. i'm adding a cut to this post because it just got so long i'm so sorry.

a lot of times, when people are discussing the "why" of this oversaturation of fanon-only fandom, they blame Wayne Family Adventures. and i think, to a point, i agree WFA is responsible for a boom in this fandom. but as someone who's been in the fandom long before we had WFA, to me it's the other way around. WFA was DC's way of meeting the demand for this easy-to-get-into, easy-to-consume content about the Batfamily that predicates itself on the comics just enough to be vaguely the same characters, but has a more sitcom, slice-of-life sort of vibe so DC could profit off of this section of the fanbase that otherwise wasn't consuming its primary material. and well, it's definitely worked. not only that, but i have a weird theory that the decline in the MCU also led to the rise in the Batfamily fandom. when you consider the fan content that made the MCU popular within fandom, it's that 2012 "they all live in Avengers Tower and Thor is eating poptarts and Clint is in the vents and there are movie nights every Friday" sort of vibe. those were the fics that were a hallmark of the fandom. and as the MCU has strayed from well... quality content in general, but specifically well-thought-out crossover content where characters can have their own arcs but also exist in a wider story where they clearly care about each other, that fandom was sort of homeless. so where do you go, if you like a superhero found family where you can have villains for angst but also stick them all in one big family-like home for silly crack and have a plethora of options for gay ships? well. you go to the Batfamily. if you write a crack/fluff Batfamily genfic with silly vibes and low stakes instead of say, a fic about a very specific comic issue even if it's a popular comic, you're *going* to get more traction for the former. because the fanbase largely just isn't reading the comics.

and i feel... complicated about this. because on one hand, Don't Like Don't Read has been a tenet of my fandom experience. i'm very pro-fandom and that includes fandom content i don't like. and to an extent, i do think this sort of should apply to Batfamily fanon. i enjoy having my moments with other comic purists, giggling over exceptionally painful OOC headcanons or even facepalming in pain over some content but it is on me to not interact with that content. you don't make fandom a better place by being hostile to fans who engage with canon in ways you don't approve of. and frankly? we as comic readers are not going to get non-comic fans to read the comics by being asshats to them. no one is going to want to pick up any comic if we get a superiority complex about it. and also, i feel like we're all lying to ourselves a little bit insisting comics are so, so easy to get into. they're not. we can just all agree, they're really not. i've been single-handedly helping my sister get into comics, specifically Wonder Woman and no matter how simple i make it, i watch her get frustrated trying to understand what pre-Crisis and post-Crisis and New-52 and Flashpoint and all these things mean and what a retcon vs a reboot is and what a Crisis Event is and what the hell Diana's current backstory even *is*. sure, you can give someone a beginner list of comics to start with and slowly dip their toes in the water but sooner or later, *something* is going to confuse them. comics as a medium straight up aren't going to be everyone's cup of tea. and if someone *just* wants to read silly fluffy fanfiction about the Batfamily, i can't entirely begrudge them for not wanting to take the hours and hours out of their day to understand this medium. it's not an accessible medium to get into. "read this and this, but this run is out of print and this run wasn't collected in trades at all but also make sure you read that event in order and this is a good comic but the backstory in it is retconned and you *have* to read this it's so important but it's also really bad because the author kind of sucks" sounds. ridiculous for someone who like. just wants to read some stuff about Nightwing. sometimes, we all make reading comics sort of sound like a chore, not a hobby.

so my point is, i do extend some grace to Batfamily fanon for existing. i think my biggest gripe is, as i said in my other post, misuse of tags (if you're not creating content about comics, maybe you don't need the comics fandom tag on Ao3, just the all media types umbrella tag) and my far bigger gripe: when panels are taken out of context to support fanon only headcanons. if i could impart *anything* onto the Batfamily fandom as a comic fan it'd be this: if you haven't *read* the comic, don't spread the panel. if you don't even know what comic it's *from*, don't spread the panel. it's fine to use comic panels to discuss your headcanons, but so often i see someone spreading a comic panel from a comic they haven't read, and when asked where it's from, they can't source it. a silly example that comes to mind is a post going around, taking a panel where Dick, in his internal monologue goes "here comes the sun. do do do do." and the post is claiming it's from him getting buried alive. when that panel comes from Nightwing (1996) #140, and he gets buried alive in Nightwing (1996) #127, two completely different moments frankensteined together. if you're going to not read the comics, that's completely fine, but unless you're sure of the source and the context, panels shouldn't be spread around. i'm sick of this specifically happening to Red Robin (2009), with ppl claiming Tim has totally killed people because he blew up some of Ra's' bases, when those panels within context, make it clear he gave everyone time to escape. and in a later arc in that very comic, Tim grapples with the idea of murdering Captain Boomerang, and *specifically chooses not to*, because he doesn't agree with murder, even against the person who has hurt him the most. if you'd like to write fanfiction where Tim is pro-murder and has done some sketch things, i'm totally on board and would probably like to read it. but there's no need to pretend it's canon from a few panels you saw out of context.

beyond that, i think it's not *entirely* correct to say that fanon is harmless. whenever i see very WFA-positive posts, they often default to the argument that WFA is fun and silly, and comic fans are killjoys for not liking it. which. i think is complicated because the issue is, WFA and fanon don't exist in a vacuum. if you like WFA power to you, i don't think it's the worst thing ever, but i do think it's degrading to these characters because honestly? they feel incompetent in the webtoon. it's one thing if WFA was solely a slice-of-life sort of deal, just having silly episodes where Bruce is taking on a PTA mom or they're all fighting for the last cookie. but when WFA attempts to take on more serious plots with these characters, it *fundamentally* falls flat in understanding them. i get it, Bruce comforting Jason having a panic attack because a noise reminded him of the crowbar felt cute in a microcosm, but i'm so serious when i say that storyline destroyed how like. half of this fandom understands Jason Todd's relationship to his trauma. it doesn't understand how he reacts when he's triggered, what coping mechanisms he seeks out, and how he would handle Bruce comforting him. even if i can believe for a brief moment Jason *would* be triggered by something like that, him running and trying to hide and then getting a hug from Bruce to make it okay is just. painful. WFA needs everything to be wrapped up in a nice, neat little bow. so even when it starts to tackle interesting concepts, it makes them fall flat with its need to be soft, low stakes, hurt/comfort. there was a two-parter episode that dealt with the complicated mutual hatred/jealousy between Tim and Damian that *almost* really interested me because for once, it felt like the webtoon wanted to explore canon messy dynamics. but of course, it had to be fixed with one conversation and a hug. you don't mend the *years* of issues these characters have like that. WFA isn't in character because these characters are hyperbole cartoonified versions of themselves to fit within the medium and be a cute happy family.

because that right there, is the crux of it. the Batfamily fanon seeks to simplify the Batfamily and force them into a nuclear family. there are so many fantastic posts on here discussing how the nuclear family-ification of the Batfam is eroding decades worth of complex histories so i won't go too far into that. but what i will say is that there's this need, in the Batfamily fandom, for the Batfamily to exist as a unit. they are a *family*. (honestly i think calling it the Batfamily is a misnomer and has been for years but we're in too deep now.) they exist to each other first, and any teams or friends they have come secondary to this family unit. you can *specifically* see this demonstrated in what headcanons are becoming popular these days. i have an entire lengthy meta in my drafts about how i *loathe* the "the Batfamily meets the Justice League" genre of fanfic because it makes no *sense*. in order to have this genre of fic exist, you must operate under the assumption that no one in the League, or adjacent to the League, knows the Batfamily exists and are thus utterly shocked to discover Batman has kids. and to make *that* work, you have to strip *every single Batfamily member* of such important dynamics and friendships so you can lock them all in Gotham for their whole lives. Dick can't have the Titans, Tim can't have Young Justice, Duke & Cass can't have the Outsiders, Jason can't have the Outlaws, Damian can't have the Supersons, Babs can't have the Birds of Prey, and so on. because if they had these relationships, they would be known to the League. the Batfamily fandom doesn't care about this, it's just "silly fanfiction", it's not trying to be serious. but how can you say you like Dick Grayson as a character if you don't understand the Titans *are* his family? at some points of his life, moreso than the Batfamily even is. it is constantly repeated to us in most comics with Dick how much the Titans mean to him. he *needs* them to be who he is. the same extends to every other Batfamily member, most of which have been full League members at this point. but in fanon, that doesn't matter. the Batfamily are a sequestered unit first, and all of those side relationships are secondary and easy to toss away, if it makes your fanfic work better.

and because they have to be a unit first, you have these forced relationships that dump years of actual canon material for the sake of making them get along. the Batfamily fandom has its favorites and well. it's no secret it's usually the boys. Jason and Tim by *far* stand out as fandom faves so, their dynamic is a heavily explored one. it does matter that in canon they don't tend to get along and especially don't see each other as family. what matters is that you can push dynamics onto them. and so fanon gets all twisted up about which Robin Tim actually idolized as a kid (Dick) and what member of the Batfamily is pro-murder but still an older sibling figure to him and looks out for him (Helena, or if you want the dynamic of once tried to harm Tim but they've reconciled, Jean-Paul) in favor of who's the most popular. Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian are always going to be the standouts for popularity, but it's specifically Jason and Tim who are getting fanonized the most. and that's because really, we don't have much canon content of Tim that *isn't* the comics. for Dick you've got Young Justice (tv), for Damian you've got the DCAMU, for Jason you've sort of got the Under The Red Hood movie, but Tim sort of lingers in this limbo. (yes, he's in Young Justce (tv) and Titans (live action) but in neither is he the main character nor given much depth) so, he gets a *lot* projected onto him and has become fanonized. and even with Jason's animated movies, you don't see him interact with Tim, so people build it from the ground up how they want to see it, disregarding of canon comics. i think it's what makes him so popular in the first place- he's malleable into whatever you want or need him to be.

and of course, the fanon ignores other characters in the Batfamily it doesn't know about. i feel like you could create a tier list of Batfamily characters by their popularity, going from the fandom main characters: Tim, Jason, Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Damian. to the underrated: Steph, Duke, Babs, Cass. to the forgotten about unless they're convenient for a story: Kate, the Foxes, Helena Wayne, Carrie, Selina, Harper Row, Maps, Minhkhoa Khan. to the absolutely unknown: Helena Bertinelli, Jean-Paul Valley, Onyx Adams, the Clovers, Julia Pennyworth. it's not lost on me that the ignored characters tend to be women and people of color. which is both a canon and fanon problem, DC will continue adding interesting characters to the Batfamily, play with them for a few years, then drop them to default to the "Batboys" again. and it's a vicious cycle of the fandom only caring about the "Batboys", and thus people entering the fandom via fanon osmosis won't have content about the other characters, therefore, they won't be interested in those characters enough to create it, and it's just this ouroboros consuming itself, no matter how much canon content we have of these other characters. and it's ridiculous just how large the Batfamily is becoming because of this, which is why i'm a pre-Flashpoint fan, because then the Batfamily was contained enough to actually feel like a family with every character having nuances relationships with each other, but i digress because those thoughts could be their own post.

and the thing about fanon is it doesn't exist in a vacuum. DC has started turning the comics to accommodate for what fans are asking for, because fans will beg and beg for content they're not going to consume. Tim Drake: Robin had Tim as a coffee drinker because that's the fanon accepted headcanon. and the resolution of the recent Gotham War arc was for Bruce to buy this new manor for everyone to move in and call him. nevermind that most of these characters have their own homes and have zero reason to be moving in with Bruce. Tim had his marina in Tim Drake: Robin, Dick has Bludhaven, Cass and Steph have their little side of town in Batgirls (2022), and so on. these characters are being forced together as a unit, as one big happy family living together, to appease what non-comic fans want and it's damaging comic relationships. Robin: Knight Terrors saw Jason and Tim team up and working together, which i've seen varying opinions on but i personally despised. their interactions made zero sense for any of their canon history, but it appeases them being this close sibling relationship that fanon acts like they are. also the fears they faced in their respective knight terrors didn't make sense for either character and *only* worked as a moment of bringing them together so they could reassure each other and have this weird dreamscape bonding moment. the canon is bending itself to the will of fanon rather than building on the pre-existing complex relationships. Tim barely even gets along with his most important team in Dark Crisis: Young Justice because it seems the only important relationships the Batfamily can have is with each other. and when we do see them outside of the Batfamily, it only seems to be to relive the glory days like with World's Finest: Teen Titans, instead of developing them as they currently exist. this isn't recent in the comics, it feels like you can trace it back to the New-52, but it does feel a *lot* worse over the recent years. WFA is fine when it exists in its own bubble, but the simple truth is, DC content never exists on its own. the adaptations will reflect back onto the comics. (the damage the Young Justice cartoon has done to some characters should honestly be studied) and so it does frustrate me a bit when fanon-only or adaptation-only fans act like we're being nothing but killjoys for being frustrated with this. since they don't read the comics, they don't see how the comics are suffering as a result of this.

people argue about what's out of character for the comics they don't even read. i'm sorry, but "bad dad Bruce" is consistently canon. that man is just kind of shitty. when you take someone who has the drive he has, who has this need for the Mission first, who needs a teenager in spandex next to him to keep him off the ledge, that guy is sort of going to be a shitty father figure. he just is. not on purpose or with malice, but when you compare him to any other dad in a big DC family, he sure takes the cake. it's why characters like Oliver Queen tend to *really* fucking hate Bruce for how he treats his kids. Bruce loves fiercely, but he doesn't do well with putting that love first. and his love is a controlling one, he is very particular about controlling how others in the Batfamily are "allowed" to operate. it's what drives the wedge between him and Dick, it's why Steph is never a true daughter to him. (besides the reason of her needing to be a love interest to Tim first, anyway-) i've never understood the massive outcry of people reacting to Bruce kinda being shitty in comics they're not reading. there are some moments that get ridiculously OOC with how cartoonishly evil he is (the whole Gotham War arc and that... complicated mess with Jason) but largely if you want sitcom loving nuclear father Bruce, you have to accept that is a fanon thing, not a canon one. the Batfamily being a nuclear family in *general* is fanon. most of the "Batkids" don't actually see Bruce in a particularly fatherly light and begging for moments where he calls them his kids or they call him dad outside of incredibly specific circumstances is just OOC.

it's getting harder and harder to exist peacefully in this fandom it feels like, if you don't comply to the standard fanon has set. i'm happy people are having fun with their blorbos, even if in ways i dislike, but that "harmless fandom fun" does ripple it's way back to canon, eventually. so i end up pretty tangled with my feelings because are fans at fault for DC making these poor decisions? probably not, but it certainly feels like an unfortunate cause-and-effect situation whether at the end of the day, nobody is happy. and of course, i know some fanon-only fans are striving to be more canon accurate and care about canon dynamics more than others, but for them it's always going to be an uphill battle with the above-mentioned out-of-context panels thrown around and ever-pervasive fanon overtaking anything that's truly seeking to be canon compliant. so really, it sometimes feels like we're all losing.

[ao3feed-brucewayne]

Unfriendly Neighbourhood's Spider-Man

by lemongrovesandcloves It only took ten seconds for everything to fall apart. Which, to Peter Parker, felt like some kind of record. Now he's been turned to dust and thrown into green goo in a city on an Earth unlike his own. Faced with strange dreams and figuring his place in a place infested with muck and crime... it's up to Peter to figure out the kind of Spider-Man needed in an unfriendly neighbourhood. AKA another what if Spider-Man was with the Batman AU. featuring a soul stone embedded in a sternum, a group of miscommunicating siblings, and a cult with a sinister plot to bring about doom. Words: 4294, Chapters: 2/?, Language: English Fandoms: Batman - All Media Types, Batman (Comics), Justice League vs. Teen Titans (2016), Teen Titans: The Judas Contract (2017), Justice League Dark: Apokolips War (2020), Spider-Man - All Media Types, Spider-Man (Tom Holland Movies) Rating: Not Rated Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Characters: Peter Parker, Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Duke Thomas, Damian Wayne, Bruce Wayne, Harleen Quinzel, Barbara Gordon, Raven (Teen Titans), Cyborg (Character), Teen Titans (DCU) Relationships: Peter Parker & Jason Todd, Dick Grayson & Peter Parker, Peter Parker & Bruce Wayne, Peter Parker & Damian Wayne, Peter Parker & Duke Thomas, Tim Drake & Peter Parker, Peter Parker & Alfred Pennyworth, Batfamily Members & Peter Parker, Barbara Gordon & Peter Parker Additional Tags: Dimension Travel, Alternate Universe, Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Infinity Stone Soul World (Marvel), Canon Divergence - Post-Avengers: Infinity War Part 1 (Movie), Crossover, Canon-Typical Violence, Peter Parker is a Mess, DC Comics References, Bruce Wayne is Batman, Red Robin is not an Eatery, Tim Drake is Red Robin, Jason Todd is Red Hood, Damian Wayne is Robin, Barbara Gordon is Oracle via https://ift.tt/7BwobRf

[evilwickedme]

what are you lecturing about at the next con?

God this ask is so old, I'm sorry for never answering it slipped my mind. The con now happened literally months ago lmao

Anyway the subject was a thorough comparison between DC and marvel's comic world building (or at least as thorough as I could do in 80 minutes). I called it "who's more of a hero?" which sounds much more catchy in Hebrew, and I covered the following topics:

The thesis: is marvel really about humans trying to be gods and is DC really about gods trying to be human?

Covered the way I saw people online explain the claim, with the most interesting argument I found being that DC focuses on aspirations and marvel focuses on interpersonal relationships

Why do heroes in marvel and DC want to be heroes? What are their motivations? (The same ones: to do good and help people)

"the art of telling stories", in which I covered five subjects:

Mantles - what is a mantle, how does the sharing of mantles work in each company?

"families" - the concept of the "batfamily" or "superfamily", and the fact that marvel's superhero teams do not resemble it really at all, even in cases where the teams ARE called families (like the fantastic four)

Secret identities - the slow disappearance of them in marvel, DC's insistence on keeping them

Multiverse, featuring a five minute rant on how much I hate DC's claim to having a multiverse when they really don't

Fourth wall breaks: marvel cares much more on what a story is, DC doesn't really do that

After summarizing that I moved on to comparing similar themed stories in both companies:

Addiction: Snowbirds Don't Fly vs Demon in a Bottle

Past sidekicks coming back from the dead: Under the Hood vs The Winter Soldier

Discussed JLA/avengers and the way each team reacted to the other world's treatment of superheroes with disgust which was honestly both hilarious and fascinating

Conclusion: basically both yes and a no; both companies tell stories where the world is black and white, and stories that are more complicated and motivated by character psychology; but DC also tends to focus on the here and now and leaves world building to isolated events, while marvel is more willing to play with its own history in its narrative and approaches the concept of narrative more complexly

And yeah despite the fact that it's not all black and white, DC kinda does focus more on aspirations while marvel focuses more on interpersonal relationships; we see this ESPECIALLY in jla/avengers

At the end I included a full reading list of the comics I mentioned

And yeah that's it, it was incredibly stressful cause I really finished it the night before but it was also so much fun

[ragnarokhound]

re: your tags on the jason’s anger post~

hard agree!! i will read reconciliation fics bc like… i do enjoy them getting to be a happy family/group but ultimately, i am firmly in the Jason Todd Was Right camp, &. serious work would need to be done for him to ever actually be part of the family again, bc the actual roots of his issues run DEEP. (and again! he has points!!)

and also same again on like… if i mention the batfamily dynamics in my fics, with the exception of au’s, jason’s relationship with bruce especially is still at least a little strained. he’s a member but also kind of an outsider and maybe he has complicated feelings on that sometimes but ultimately it’s bc his convictions / beliefs run deeper than his need /want of acceptance / belonging.

anyway sorry to dump a rant in your inbox but, i loved your tags & wanted to reply 💞

OUUGHH YES THO!! THANK YOU FOR RANTING, ALWAYS RANT IN MY INBOX STAY IN THIS SPACE WITH ME <333

(I'm about to have a mini-rant of my own, and disclaimer, it's largely informed by my terrible foundation of the UTRH movie + fandom osmosis + the occasional page/panel drop/arguments from other fans skdndndj sO GRAIN OF SALT THE SIZE OF RHODE ISLAND: )

Because yes yes absolutely! It would take serious work on Both sides for Jason to be brought back into the fold. They would both need to want it, and someone would have to be willing to bend on what they are ok with letting slide. Bruce would have to allow Jason his independence and divergence in philosophy; Jason would have to make concessions to Bruce's hard anti-murder stance.

There would have to be compromise, and reparations of some kind. They would have to actually talk and be able to listen. Apologies exchanged (mostly from Bruce because lmao) and a bunch of stuff people with the whole picture could probably tell me better lmao. ALL HARD ASKS

Because yes yes yes!! Jason's convictions and his beliefs ABSOLUTELY run deeper than his desire for acceptance. That's not-so-low-key the biggest obstacle for both him and Bruce in their ever reconciling. It's why Talia was able to manipulate him at all (idk the specifics of that, but details), it's why he hatched a deeply convoluted plan to get back at Bruce and the Joker and fuck over Black Mask in one fell swoop.

He wanted to confront Bruce with the consequences of letting Joker run around even after committing a deeply heinous and personal crime. Show him that taking a more intense and hands on approach and cracking down HARD on the crime families in Gotham would have more immediate results than what Bruce did. And that's not even getting into the Robin stuff yet lol

I don't personally agree per se with Jason's stance on murder and crime fighting lmao - but I also think he has a goddamn point, especially in this universe. In the world of batman, where death can be impermanent and supervillains pull all kinds of heinous, torturous bullshit, Jason has a lot of righteous and justified anger about how Bruce does things, on top of his hurt and betrayal over how both he and his death were treated.

Bruce's stance makes sense to me too, in a 'everyone deserves a second chance' and 'no one is beyond redemption' and 'its a slippery slope' perspective. But at some point you have to wonder about accountability. About what's acceptable. When the Joker is an unrepentant, murderous, sadistic criminal who has demonstrated that he cannot be adequately jailed or rehabilitated, what do you do? Do you ever give up on him? When is enough enough? Is the death penalty ever justifiable?

It's what makes Jason vs Bruce's arguments interesting and tragic to me, because from Jason's perspective, he is seeking retribution for himself as a victim. He is an avenger for victims failed by the system as it stands. And the system fails a lot of people. It needs to change. (And it's something being felt very strongly by a lot of people rn IRL which makes Jason's ideals v sympathetic.)

But from Bruce's perspective, Jason has given up. He has lost hope in the inherent goodness of people. He no longer seeks to find the good in people; he has decided that there exists instead a sharp dichotomy, that there is such thing as a bad person who deserves to die for what they've done, and for being bad. As opposed to seeing deeply injured people who need help, even when you find them repulsive. Rotten work, that.

Bruce sees the end of the path that Jason is on, and it's a bullet that Jason puts in his own brain - because if there are good people and bad people, and bad people deserve to die... won't Jason lump himself in with the bad people eventually? (I am once again standing on my 'Jason Todd wants to die on some level' soapbox)

Anyway, all this to say - there is a sharp divide in Bruce and Jason's methods/beliefs that makes their reconciliation impossible if neither of them is willing to budge. And when they both see budging as a terrible thing to do, a failure to the very people they are dedicating their lives to protecting...well.

It's gonna take a lot of angst and a lot of work.

[thevindicativevordan]

Comics this week?

Action Comics #1057 - If this is the last arc for both the way I suspect I'm going to miss Sandoval just as much as PKJ. Like Sampere and Federeci he's an artist who could be a generational Superman creator but may be getting snatched away too soon. This issue is mainly just an interview between Clark and Norah, and in the hands of a lesser artist it would just be boring talking heads. Sandoval's portrayal of Clark using his powers to detect whether Norah is lying during the interview keeps the tension high, loved how he depicted Clark's x-ray vision and superhearing. Pretty obvious that Norah is an infiltrator sent by the Empire of Shadows (the evil Dark Multiverse Batfamily from the Batman/Superman & the Authority one shot that PKJ did). If this is the ending arc for PKJ, the Superfamily vs. the Evil Batfamily is a great idea for an ending.

Flash #1 - Good first issue, sets up an interesting Speed Force plot even though I've felt worn out on the Speed Force. Been out of the loop with Flash for a while and this did a good job of getting me up to speed (heh). Dedato art isn't a great fit with a speedster - conveying motion is something he's bad at - but it does suit the grim tone. Spurrier is a writer who loves to pack his issues with as much words as he can, which has the upside of making the issue take longer to read. Seems the comic industry is switching back to compression after two decades plus with everyone trying to ape the Bendis decompressed style. It's a welcome change because if you're going to charge me $5 an issue, it damn well better take me longer than 5 minutes to read.

Detective Comics #1074 - Probably my favorite issue of the run thus far, Nguyen is a treasure. Watters needs his own Ten-Eyed Man mini.

The Penguin #2 - The lesser King work with WW on the stands but still good!

Unstoppable Doom Patrol #6 - Burnham draws the hell out of the fight scenes and it was great to see old Morrison characters like Quiz. Kinda the perfect counter to Jane having every superpower ever just doled out to different identities.

Blade #3 - Slows down a bit but the Adana is such a cool bad guy and I'm loving the buildup to Blade's fight. Plus Blade keeps being the coolest motherfucker in the MU.

Immortal Thor #2 - Not feeling the new Loki design and Ewing is struggling with writing fight scenes as always, but man is that art gorgeous otherwise. Thought bubbles are such a perfect choice here because they are the equivalent of Shakespearean English for comics in terms of conveying "this is old school storytelling". Compliments Ewing trying to write a Thor run in the vein of the actual myths.

Avengers #5 - At this point it's a solid run, but not as great as his Strange book. Need to cut back so I'm dropping this.

Ultimate Invasion #4 - Oh boy do I have thoughts! So many I need to bullet point them!

Hickman has flipped the plot from Ultimates 2. Here the 6160 Ultimates are positioned like the 1610 Liberators in that they are going to be fighting to destroy the status quo, with Capitan America presumably leading the charge. Or maybe it will be Black Panther as the leader since he presumably will be housing the Ultimates in the one place not under the Illuminati's control: Wakanda.

Nothing gets erased via time travel which surprised me. For better or worse, this is what the new Ultimate Universe will be. No traditional take on Ultimate Fantastic Four ever since Ben, Sue, and Johnny are all dead and Reed is a good version of Doom. Reed will be on the Ultimates because Hickman can't leave his boy on the sidelines for long. Clearly Hickman will be writing Ultimates since I can't imagine anyone else wanting to write that kind of lineup with this weird a status quo. What the hell an Ultimate X-Men book is going to look like is anyone's guess.

Hickman has three big plotlines seeded here: The Illuminati carving up America and the Ultimates fighting back. The Maker, Kang, and Howard all trapped in the City which is sealed now but will open again one day. Tony Stark is "Iron Lad" which is meant to make us believe he is also Ultimate Kang, whether that's a red herring or a destiny Tony must face one day remains to be seen.

Other big plot thread is that one day the 616 Illuminati are going to make their way to 6160, likely with the help of Miles and that card Maker gave him.

No tease for Spider-Man, maybe that will come with the Ultimate Universe one shot. Either it's going to be Peter Parker because Marvel demands at least one relatively "normal" book to serve as anchor for all this weirdness, or it will be someone entirely new. Saw someone suggest Harry Osborn and fuck that actually could work! I don't think that's ever been done either. My guess is that USM will be a book about either Peter or Harry having been groomed to join the technocrats in ruling the world, but they end up rebelling against that. Most of Spidey's traditional foes are either mad scientists (Norman and Otto would easily fit into this as sub-bosses under Howard who are pissed because the Illuminati stripped them of their old privileges) or science experiments lashing out (Lizard for example).

I see what Hickman is going for here. In our world the techbros wield power equivalent to heads of state, Hickman just flat out made them the actual heads.

It's an interesting setup, but it's weird. I dunno if Marvel fans will get on board with this, it's so utterly at odds with well, everything. It's not 616, it's not the MCU, and it's not 1610. Everything here is taking full advantage of being an alternate universe, and I don't know how Marvel fans will react to that. Another problem is this Ultimate Universe already carries a lot of baggage. Don't know who the Maker is? You're going to be utterly lost with what the hell is going on. Original Ultimate Universe lasted as long as it did because it was easy to get into for newcomers and featured streamlined reimagining of the classic characters for oldheads. Hickman said his new UU would be an inversion of that and he didn't lie.

I'm concerned that approach is going to make this new Ultimate Universe short lived. Say you're one of the countless people who will presumably jump in on Hickman writing Spidey without having read all this beforehand. If Spider-Man is as changed as Iron Man or Reed are, that's going to be a turn off for people because they'll reject how different he is from what they expect.

[ameba-from-space]

I hope you don't mind me asking but i just went through all of your batfam/batman recommended fics and wondered if you had more? I'm super new to the dc fandom and finding good family/friend focused fics has felt like a challenge

Bestie it's not a problem, doing these lists has been loads of fun, I'm re-reading all my favorite fanfics and rediscovering all over again why I loved them in the first place

Let us begin

Of Bats and Robins (and Families) - is it too obvious that I fucking love fanfics where the league meets bruce's kids?

dying dream - Jason finds out what changed in the cave since he was gone

Trending - Tim is a sleepy baby

hit 'em up style - Bruce Wayne vs tampons: battle of the century

falling in love (is hard on the knees) - I know this sounds like smut but I promise it's not

Anything Like Me - Louis and bruce bonding

Reservations - The kids try to set bruce up for a date. Clark mopes.

I Measure Every Grief I Meet - What if Jason was not the one who died in Ethiopia?

We Alley Kids - Jason gets recognized and returned to where he belongs

Billionaire Down - Bruce and Oliver are asshole best friends

and it comes back around - Sometimes Brucie is a hero too

Bundle of Joy - Damian is a baby. Literally

sneaking into the Batcave seemed like a good idea until a bunch of bats glare at you - Guess what bitch, it's another fanfic where the JL meets the kids

Waynes? More like Wayne-kers - The Waynes are assholes and I love them so much

A Children's Story - No better words to describe it other than what the author said "Four batkids walk into a bank"

Hearth - Angst in my rooftop tag? It's more likely than you'd think

A Touch of Concern - Cuddle piles and overprotectiveness

The Bedtime Chronicles - Bruce figures a way to make Jason go to bed

Perils of a Job - Dick gets hurt, bruce worries

what a privilege to love you (to teach you all that I know) - A fucking masterpiece, beautiful and perfect, a story about the word "dad" and what it means to the batfamily. FUCKING BEAUTIFUL GO FUCKING READ IT

Their Five (Unexpected) Dates - The kids try to get bruce set up, fucking guess how well that goes

Clark Kent Reports - Brucie Wayne my beloved

Photos - Damian's baby pictures are found, feelings happen

The Arrangement - Bruce Wayne supports sex workers

Put My Money Where Your Mouth Is - Batman hears the league talking about bruce Wayne, pranks happen

A Day in the Life: Gotham's King - Lois lane writes about bruce Wayne

children of dust and ashes - Bruce avenges Jason

...And To All, A Good Night - Happy Chrismis, merry crysler

That the Ripest Might Fall - reverse robins short story about dick and his tendency to climb chandeliers

bad people don't live in our house - Baby dick is adorable

things kept hidden - Meta!dick Grayson is a ray of sunshine

The Superman Onesie - Dick Grayson owns my heart

What would you do, if it all came back to you? - Bruce makes video diaries after Jason's death, Jason finds them

The Jason Project - Bruce finds the bucket list of a dead child and finishes it

No Matter What - Queerness? In my Dick Grayson? It's more likely than you'd think

Hi Bi, I'm Dad - Bisexuality? In my Tim Drake? Its more likely than you'd think

Dad...I’m Bilingual - Bisexuality? In my Dic... Okay you guys already got the idea

Thinking back to the Season Before - Alfred is a fantastic grandpa

Proof - The boys meet each other before ever meeting bruce

Running Headlong into My Arms - In another universe with no superheroes, bruce Wayne still finds his family

In For a Pound - What if Damian entered Bruce's life much earlier. A GODDAMN MASTERPIECE BY @cdelphiki

I walk the streets at night (with monsters in my mind) - Bruce Wayne is a dragon, his hoard? Children

The Dark Knight Strikes Back - Bruce finishes Minecraft and the boy figure out how much he changed

Bat Out Of Hell - The batfam are a bunch of weirdoes

the lost sidekick society - The obligatory group chat fic

Slumber - sleepy robin

one shot, two shots in the night - Bruce writes a memoir, it makes me cry so hard, fuck, best shit ever

a hat fashioned from tin foil - conspiracy theories straight from Gotham

Anti-Social - Social media is a blessing

Not All Kidnappings are Bad - Bruce Wayne kidnaps a kid, no biggie

I'll Make the World Safe and Sound for You - Robins and band-aids

Built Together - Pillow forts! Pillow forts!

Oh god this list is way longer than I thought it would be, anyway enjoy my rec, just so you guys know I still have 4 more pages of bookmarks

Here are the links to the other ones I made: first part second part

[stxleslyds]

Red Hood and the lost art of telling Joker to shup up.  

Okay, I know that I talked about Jason and Joker in a recent post but this is something different, I promise.

I really want to talk about how different Jason has been written since UtRH when it comes to him confronting Joker. Jason hasn’t been put in that position a lot but the times that he has, he lets Joker talk for far too long and actually pays attention to whatever he has to say.

The Jason vs Joker thing is basic in on itself and letting Joker talk isn’t exactly the problem here, the real problem is Jason letting Joker’s thoughts shape his future thoughts and decisions, I do understand that that’s exactly what writers want though, they want to build the problematic of: “Jason is just like Joker and the fact that he uses the name Red Hood only proves that Joker made who Jason is now”.

But the thing is that THAT problem is overdone at this point and the only time it worked was the first time it was brought up and it worked because Jason shut the Joker down.

Let’s see all the times (that I remember) the Joker and Jason have had a little chat and/or the times Joker’s words actually influence Jason’s thinking and decision making.

 Under the Red Hood – Batman (1940) #649

This is the first real confrontation we get to see between Jason and Joker after Jason’s death and it is beautiful. It's absolutely amazingly written, Joker goes on and on forever about how he killed Jason about how Jason is just as bad as him but that he is also just like Batman because he hasn’t killed him yet.

“You let me live after everything I did, you couldn’t pop my balloon. You just couldn’t. The apple doesn’t tumble too far from the paterfamilias. You are just like daddy-kins”

Jason lets him talk, yes. But he absolutely destroys Joker with what he tells him next.

“You couldn’t be more wrong about me. If right were a country on earth you’d be circling on the edge of the milky way. Yeah, I let you live but like always, every damned minute of your addled, posturing, psychopathic life, you think this is about you. You’re a worm. I’ve pitched you on a hook and dropped you into the brine. And I will beat the hell out of you Pagliacci because it was too much fun not to.”

“Listen to me Joker, I’m not you. I´m nothing like you. I know what I do and I know why I do it. You, you are, clinically speaking, a whack-job. But I know a secret, a good one.”

“You are not nearly as crazy as you would like us all to believe or even as crazy as you would like to believe. It just makes it easier to justify every sick monstrous thing you’ve ever done when you play the part of the mad clown. You are crazy, bubba, but you ain’t that crazy. Look at that. I wiped a smile off of Joker’s face. I have been waiting a long time for that.”

Everything about this is perfect, Jason gives Joker no room to mess with him. Whatever the Joker had planned on saying he had to eat because Jason wasn’t playing games and he was ready for any kind of lie the Joker had ready to tell. This is Jason Todd. He won’t let the Joker get under his skin because he knows the Joker and he, also, knows better. 

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2011) #15

Here Jason comes across Joker during the “Death of the Family” event. In this issue the Joker has information about all of the members of the “Batfamily” and he uses that to mess around with each one of them, in Jason’s case he insinuates that he was present in very specific moments of his life when Jason’s father got shot, when his mother overdosed and when he was on his own before joining Batman.

Jason doesn’t quite believe that Joker was there but as the reader, we can see this sort of sense of doubt in Jason. He hesitates a few times before resolving that the Joker is playing with him.

But as far as this issue goes let’s just say that what the Joker says doesn’t get to Jason, this changes though in the issue that follows up this story.

Teen Titans (2011) #16

This is where that story continues and where Jason starts to buy the story that Joker is selling.

Joker convinces Jason that he has his father and Tim’s father and that the only way for Jason (or Tim) to save their dads is by killing the other (Jason or Tim). Tim doesn’t believe it but Jason is ready to shoot Tim almost immediately.

However, Jason changes his mind about killing Tim just as Tim comes up with a plan for them to not actually have to kill each other. Here is where Lobdell’s writing shows all of its flaws, Lobdell is so desperate to show that Jason and Tim are besties that he forgets that Jason had no reason to stop trying to kill Tim to save his shit father because it is later revealed that Jason truly believed that Joker had found his father and had him captive. It wasn’t until Tim explained his thought process as to why those men weren’t their dads that Jason just goes “you realize, of course, the only reason I didn’t kill you right off is that I knew your big brain will figure out some way out of this” HA, nice save Lobdell but I see right through your bullshit.

Jason bought what the Joker was selling and that is the beginning of Jason’s downgrade when it comes to not playing Joker’s games.

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2011) #17

Well, in this issue Lobdell goes back to Jason kinda not believing what Joker told him, and Jason asks Bruce of all people if he thinks the Joker truly “made him or not”. Bruce says that he doesn’t believe that and that he didn’t have anything to do with the man that Jason has become either. For some reason, Jason is actually happy with what Bruce said and for a couple of moments, Jason goes back to being sure that the Joker knows nothing and that he is his own man.

It doesn’t last long though. At the very end of the issue, the trap that Joker had set up in Jason’s helmet triggers and Jason gets his face fucked up with acid or something.

But that’s not all because a hologram of Joker has something to say: “you were supposed to be my masterpiece from start to finish. But you were too stubborn to stay dead. So here is what we are going to do… You’re so determined to be your own man? Fine, let’s start with a clean slate”.

Basically, the Joker insinuates once more that he had something to do with who Jason was supposed to become and that Jason isn’t truly “his own man”, This is all a setup for a very dense storyline that will be continued in this run later.

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2011) #18

In this issue, Jason is in a coma after he is dosed with that gas in the previous issue. The Joker isn’t really present in this issue but he does make an appearance as part of Jason’s “nightmare” while he is unconscious.

That’s not all though, Jason has an illusion of Ducra (someone that he appreciates a lot), telling him that “after you left the All-Castle after you went back to the world you continued to let your life be defined by the actions of that man. You became a killer, lashing out at people who may or may not have deserved it. Eventually, you will hurt all those you have cared for. In that way, how are you any different from the Joker?”.

In this statement, there is a lot of wrongs that can come from two places, either bad writing on Lobdell’s part or just Ducra telling lies as a plot point.

“Let your life be defined by the actions of that man” is a sentence that horribly simplifies Jason’s thinking during the events of UtRH, because while he did resent the Joker, his real problem was with Bruce who had not avenged his death by killing the Joker himself. Also, Jason was doing other things back then, like being a pain in the ass for Black Mask and disrupting the drug trade in Gotham as well as trying to control the drug dealing to children. So that little sentence is just a gross misinterpretation of the true events which means that Ducra was wrong, and “she” continues to be wrong when she says that there might be no difference between Jason and Joker.

Luckily Jason thinks the same because he tells “Ducra”: “…don’t you dare compare me to that monster Ducra. I am nothing like the Joker! Nothing!”

Once again please don’t be fooled by Jason’s thinking because in the next issue it turns around really fast and really bad.

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2011) #19

Just a heads up this issue has a change of writer, Lobdell isn’t writing this arc, the writer that gives us this hellish story arc is James Tynion IV.

All that talk about Jason not being affected or not believing what the Joker told him is yeeted out of the window and it’s not a fun ride.

In this issue, Roy and Kory find a Jason that doesn’t know who they are or who he, himself, is. This is because S’aru that little floaty little shit took his memories away after Jason asked him to do so, well Jason asked S’aru to erase every memory that darkness has touched (Joker) and he does that. But him doing that is apparently erasing everything which, holy shit, how messed up is that?

But let’s take a look at what Jason says before he gets his memories taken away: “Not only did the Joker almost take my face, but he tells me he might have manipulated my entire life from the beginning! Even the good is tainted by him now. I can’t do it anymore. I can’t have that kind of doubt. If you take it away, I can go on living. I can keep fighting”. So, yeah that was a pretty emo speech. But the thing here is that if Jason is asking this dude to erase every memory that has been tainted by the Joker and he erases all of them then we might be facing one of two situations, either Joker has been messing up with Jason’s life from the beginning or S’aru is just a little bitch.

We will later find out in #20 that S’aru and Ducra planned the whole thing, meaning that they took all of his memories for ulterior motives not because the Joker had actually tainted all of them.

For many issues Jason has no memories and now that I am revisiting these issues, I now remember the twisted and completely insane plot they came up with for the “League of Assassins” and Jason being the “Chosen One”, everything was happening in this run, my god, it's like they wanted Jason to be the center of every single trope in writing history.

It’s in issue #26 that Jason asks for his memories back but the Joker having tainted his memories or not isn’t important anymore to anyone, including the writer (because he is too focused on telling this messy story), Jason (because he has enough problems at the moment) and the reader (because this book makes zero sense and it changes the story and motivations every single issue).

But there is another truth to be revealed in the next issue.

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2011) #27

Jason has planned along Ducra and S’aru to give up all of his memories to be cleansed so he could defeat Ra’s Al Ghul. But (there is always a but) Ducra says this: “Your greatest enemy returned and nearly took your face away from you. And in the process, shook your sense of identity to the core” “The final battle here will take place in the Well of Sins, and with all the doubt and fear clouding your mind, it would eat you whole”.

So yeah, now we have confirmation from Ducra that Jason had indeed let what the Joker told him cloud his sense of self and made him doubt who he was and if he really was in control.

All that back and forth for these many issues just to say, yes, Jason let Joker’s words affect him.

So here it is, let Joker get in Jason’s head to build the plot of a story, fantastic, the story was a mess because it had so much information, the mischaracterizations of Roy and Kory were at their maximum potential, and in this particular story arc not only are the events of Red Hood: The Lost Days officially erased from Jason’s canon but something quite out there is added to Jason’s canon from before he was even Robin (that’s a whole different story that I won’t be talking about here).

What an insane ride this arc was. Definitely not the kind of story I enjoy in a Red Hood book but that’s just my preference.

*This whole arc was written by James Tynion IV.

Red Hood/Arsenal #11

Joker is dead during the events of this run but the person who has something to say to Jason about how the Joker made the person that he is now is Duela Dent (“Joker’s daughter”, she isn’t his daughter she just found Joker’s face somewhere and she puts it on and “becomes” crazy, she is an incredibly weird character).

She says this, “You’re a lot like dad in that way” to which Jason says “He is not my father. He’s not even your father” but Duela continues by saying. “You’re kidding yourself if you genuinely believe that. Yeah, he took your life but look what you got in its place, you ingrate. You got your freedom. You were reborn.” 

Jason doesn’t fall for it or anything of the sort but once again writers are bringing up the Joker as the maker of the Red Hood and “suggesting” that what Jason has been doing and who he has become is all thanks to Joker. The idea of Jason having no free will is still present in this narrative, even when Jason doesn’t believe it.

Red Hood/Arsenal #12

I talked too soon because in this issue Jason is having some weird thoughts.

“Funny, isn’t it, so easy to call Duela “crazy” because she wears a dead man’s face. Because isn’t that what I’m doing? Before he was the Joker, he was the Red Hood. So maybe the line between men and the Joker’s daughter is a lot thinner than I’d like to admit.”

Here he is comparing himself to Duela and to the Joker to an extent, writers often bring up the fact that Jason uses the code name that his killer once had and they have people or Jason himself questioning why he uses that name.

Personally, I don’t think there is much to build from it (at least not from the perspective of Lost Days and UtRH), it was just a joke, a morbid one if you will. He wears the mantle of the person that destroys Gotham and fills its people with fear while he is trying to control the city’s drug trade and trying to keep the people safe in his own way. And the way he wanted to do it is almost the complete opposite of the way that Batman does things.

I just think that he is being ironic and acidic about the whole thing. He has obviously moved on from the fact that Joker killed him but he has issues with the fact that Batman has yet another child working with him while the Joker is still alive. And Jason really wanted to make Bruce suffer, so him taking the name and a similar appearance to how the joker used to look is also done to get a reaction from Bruce.

I really don’t think there is any sort of connection to make between Jason and Joker beyond that, much like there is no connection between the name Nightwing and the Court of Owls. Even though Lincoln March tried to convince Dick Grayson that he chose the name Nightwing because Owls fly at night and that meant that he was supposed to become a Talon and all that Dick still didn’t believe it because he knew why he chose that name and no one can twist his reason.

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2016) #10

Finally, I can stop re-reading New 52 books, I don’t enjoy it but I have to do it if I want to talk/complain about stuff.

This one is a little different because while Jason does talk with the Joker, the Joker isn’t really there he is just part of Jason’s imagination just like the Robin Jason that he is also seeing.

In this story, Jason is helping Artemis discover who she is but he gets captured in Qurac, yup that place, and worst of all from where he is being held, he can see the place where he died. All of that is helping Jason have some very vivid memories/illusions. He does actively hold a conversation with the imaginary Joker and Robin Jason though, and he is also having a lot of thoughts that let us know how the Joker affects Jason.

“This is why it was stupid of me to come back to Qurac. Even to help Artemis, even if I thought I could handle it. Physically, I am alone, but in my head? I’m drowning in memories of the worst day of what was my very short life. The day I was murdered.”

That’s what Jason is thinking but what I write next is what Jason’s saying as he talks to the imaginary Joker.

“Not interested in replaying this over again, like I have every night of my life since it happened Joker”

So, we are told that Jason thinks about that day very often, the Joker might not be involved much in Jason’s books but he definitely has a bigger role inside of Jason’s head. They chat for a bit up until Jason decides to “kill” the Joker, he knows, of course, that it is not real but it does give him satisfaction. (If only they would have let Jason actually kill the clown for real, or at the very least chase him just to show the reader that Jason does actually want to finish the job since the Bat won’t do it himself).

Having said all that, Joker’s imaginary death doesn’t last long because Jason is trapped in his mind and the Joker is basically functioning on a loop inside of it.

That is where the problem lies in this issue because Jason is letting us know that he is still heavily influenced by what happened that day and that he hasn’t been able to walk away from it. But once more that’s not the worst thing, because all of these thoughts have led Jason to think that he (in the present and as a fifteen-year-old) is the one to blame for having ended up dead. Yeah, it is messed up.

This is what Jason says to imaginary Robin Jason, “He is never going to die, Jason. Not here. Not in my mind, not if at some point I don’t stand up and walk away from my memories. From you.”

This is a major downgrade, from the Jason that we had in UtRH because that Jason had moved on from the fact that he had been killed what he was looking for was for Batman to avenge his death. He had other things in mind as well, like I said before in this post Jason had a lot of things going on, killing Joker wasn’t his only plan.

And this situation (written by Lobdell) is also very different from what was going on in New 52 where Jason being influenced by the Joker was used to build a plot. This is just a writer letting us know that this “new version” of Jason hasn’t worked out his problems when it comes to his death and his killer. That means that we are going backward.

After he realizes that he was unconscious all that time and that he was being tortured he does get his shit together in order to get out of captivity and go help Artemis.

The Joker and that whole thing that happened in his mind aren’t mentioned again, it was just for the reader to know that Rebirth Jason has unsolved issues with his death.

Batman: Three Jokers #1

Oh yes, here we are, we have arrived to that dreaded book, awful writing gorgeous art. In this book, the “Joker made Jason as he is now” trope is at its full potential; Johns drives this hellish truck of a book at full speed into our homes and then ends it by giving us one of the worst takes on Jason Todd’s characterization ever.

But first, let’s talk about the Joker and Jason interaction in the first issue. As Jason and Barbara are left alone with the Joker that they came across moments ago the Joker begins talking because that’s what he does.

He says this, “I’m the loop-de-loop, the hamster-wheel-of-doom. The cycle of pain each one of you is trapped in. Take “Red Hood” here, for example. Have you ever wondered why he uses my former moniker? Who in their right mind would take on the identity of their killer? Am I right?”

He is obviously being a little shit on purpose and is waiting to see if somebody will take the bait. Jason is the first to talk and he says this: “I took it because I’m owning what you did to me. You made me into this. I will be your destruction”.

Congratulations Jason, you took the bait, and now Barbara will fight with you over it.

Jason raises his gun to “break the cycle” and Barbara is like “please don’t do it” and boy is Joker having the time of his life! Both of these idiots are playing his game, Johns really did both Jason and Barbara dirty with this.

Here is where THE problem with letting the Joker talk is. This Joker got under Jason’s skin in seconds and Barbara did nothing while it happened.

This is what the Joker had to say. “Let’s look at the facts here bat-people. I bashed this boy’s skull in. I killed this Robin” to which Jason says “You didn’t kill me, you only made me stronger” which is weird because the Joker did kill him so I don’t know what kinda comeback that was supposed to be but Joker wasn’t done because he continues by saying “Yes, you crawled from the shallow grave I left you in. You lived on to fight another day. Hurrah! You survived because of your tenacity! Or maybe… maybe I beat you to a bloody mess… I took you right to the edge… because I wanted to leave you alive.”

Great that’s where the clown is going, just fantastic, more of the “I made you” but that’s not all because the Joker tells Jason that him having hurt Jason wasn’t because he didn’t like Jason, it was all about Batman, Jason doesn’t matter.

But that’s not the worse thing that was written in this awful book, Geoff Johns seems to have felt that the trauma that Jason went through in the original “Death in the Family” story wasn’t enough because he decided to add something new.

That’s why the Joker says this next, “Do you recall what you said to me while I was breaking your head in with that crowbar? As your blood streamed into your eyes and your skull cracked? Because I cherish those words. I’ll always cherish them. ‘Please stop! Please! If you let me live, I’ll do anything you say. I’ll be your Robin’” “And look at you now my little “Red Hood” shooting up people and making Batman’s life miserable! You are my Robin!”

What a nightmare Johns decided to put Jason and Jason Nation through huh? I hate this, this is the worst thing that has ever been written in a Jason Todd story (although I can say that about many things that were written in this three-issue book).

Jason kills the Joker after he says all that, Barbara does (for some reason) try to stop him from doing it but luckily, she can’t stop Jason.

But here is the thing, Jason killing the Joker doesn’t make me feel as satisfied as I would have liked, and it doesn’t feel that way because Jason let Joker talk for far too long and what Joker said ended up getting in Jason’s head and messing with him.

Batman: Three Jokers #2

Yeah, there is no rest for us, Jason Nation, in this issue Jason goes looking for another Joker to kill and he finds one but he gets captured. Johns really had to get Jason naked for Joker to torture him mentally and physically? Johns is, himself, a major red flag but that’s not what I am here to talk about.

In this issue the Joker that captures Jason has the same things to say as the other one, DC writers really have no imagination when it comes to building conflict between Joker and Jason, huh?

Anyway, Joker says this, “tell me something. Why would you put on that helmet and call yourself Red Hood after what we did?” Jason of course replies “Come on, is every one of you copycats gonna ask me the same thing? It’s a joke” the answer isn’t enough for Joker (the two of them that are here with Jason) so he continues talking. “A joke? We left you with brain damage and permanent nerve pain. Physical and emotional trauma so severe that the only relief you ever find is when you inflict pain on others. You and me, boy, we’re more alike than you’d care to admit. But you know that already. You nearly died and you blame the Batman. You hate him for it. Me too. You hate him most of all don’t you?”

Now, here is the thing, that whole thing is bullshit, none of it makes sense. From Jason having permanent nerve pain to Jason hating Batman the most, everything is a lie. And my confusion here is that I don’t know if I have to feel like Joker is doing it on purpose to be a little bitch or if Geoff Johns was on crack when he wrote this and he had actually never heard of Jason Todd in his life before.

The whole thing is a mess, it feels like he is writing Jason from an origin and story that we never read. I don’t know how to explain it, but the whole thing feels cheap, it’s a cheap trope and it’s a cheap take on who Jason Todd is, was, and will be.

The nightmare doesn’t end Jason Nation because these two Jokers have something else in mind, you see, if they said that they made the Red Hood when they killed Jason the first time, maybe if they kill him this time then he could possibly come back as the Joker. Yeah, this book did nothing for Jason.

Let’s make something clear, Jason does NOT hate Batman/Bruce for not being able to save him, he hates the fact that Batman/Bruce didn’t kill the Joker to avenge him. That simple thing doesn’t exist in Three Jokers and that’s why things like the ones that happen next are allowed to happen in this story.

Bruce and Barbara find Jason and when Bruce asks if he is okay Jason just goes berserk, he says: “Am I all right? What do you think Bruce?! You did this to me. You put me on this path. And I do hate you for it. For leaving me in the dirt. Replacing me one Robin after another without a thought.”

This, everybody is what you get when you mix bad writing with Jason being mentally manipulated by the Joker.

It's a shame that Jason is being treated this way at this point in time, in a book that came out in 2020 when Jason was able to shut the clown up with a knife and a couple of words back in 2005. What a downgrade.

At the end of this issue, Jason is safe and recovering but he still is in the same mindset, he says, “What the Joker said about how I’ve been on the path to being like them for years… they are not wrong. I don’t want to be like them though. I really don’t.”

It’s like a never-ending wheel of pain with this book. Jason is talking to Barbara when he says that and he is trying to look for comfort in her. And here is where the Jason/Barbara subplot begins and I only bring this up because something that happens in the next issue is based on the kiss that Barbara gave Jason but then was like “that doesn’t mean anything, I was just trying to comfort you”. Johns shouldn’t be allowed to write Barbara and Jason ever again.

Batman: Three Jokers #3

It’s in this issue that we find out the big subplot that Johns has prepared for Jason, are you ready for it? Yup, Jason should stop being the Red Hood because if he keeps it up, he will eventually become the Joker.

I know, I know! Jason would never stop being Red Hood, he is not on a path to become the Joker, that’s crazy! Jason’s Red Hood is a character on its own and he is amazing and just because he has different morals from Batman doesn’t mean that he is a bad guy! Right?...

“I’ll give up being Red Hood for us. I can be something else. Or I can be just Jason.”

To this day I cannot believe that those words supposedly were written by Jason Todd to Barbara Gordon after Barbara rejected him three times. The level of “what the fuck is this” is incredibly high with this one…

This whole book was a mess and I am so glad that it didn’t last longer.

Anyway, that’s it. In conclusion, Jason didn’t let the Joker get under his skin the first time they interacted after he came back from the dead but later when DC decided that UtRH was just too good of a book they came up with stories where Joker does get under Jason’s skin and Jason becomes convinced that he has no free will (or at the very least he doubts his free will) when it comes to him becoming his own man.

As I have said before, that for Jason Todd is a major downgrade. And it's one of the many things that hurts Jason’s characterization in current comics.

[rick-rayson]

MASTERLIST

I take requests for DC, Marvel, and the Umbrella Academy (No NSFW because I suck at it)

Characters I write for:

DC: (Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Timothy Drake, Damian Wayne, Duke Thomas, Cassandra Cain, Barbara Gordon, Stephanie Brown, Klarion Bleak, Crazy Jane, Starfire, Diana Prince, Yara Flor. Adrian Chase, Albert Rothstein)

MCU: (Avengers, Eternals, Kate Bishop, Valkyrie, Jane Foster, America Chavez)

UA: (Literally all the Hargreeves)

FALLOUT: (Lucy MacLean)

(Last updated: 11 April, 2024)

░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░

FALLOUT

LUCY MACLEAN:

Dating Headcanons

UA

Nothing yet. . .

MARVEL

IKARIS:

Lost Immortals: Ikaris chooses you over his mission.

—

KATE BISHOP:

(She's) Just A Phase: Kate takes you for granted.

RUMORS: Kate starts a rumor that gets you in trouble.

INCORRECT QUOTES:

Fell from heaven

—

ILLYANA RASPUTIN:

PORCELAIN SERIES:

Of Blood and Porcelain

Of Love and Clay

DC

—

BATFAMILY:

CITY OF DARKNESS SERIES: The corruptive city of Gotham has a way of bringing the worst out of the best people.

PT.1

—

ALBERT ROTHSTEIN:

SFW Alphabet

—

TETH-ADAM:

SFW Alphabet

—

MAXINE HUNKEL:

SFW Alphabet

—

CASSANDRA CAIN:

Silent Knight: A brief interaction between you and the Black Knight Cassandra. / Medieval!AU

—

BARBARA GORDON:

Under My Skin : Barbara calms you down with a dance.

—

BATGIRLS:

Protective Batgirls : The Batgirls will always protect you.

Batgirls and Robin : What it's like being Robin to the Batgirls.

—

KLARION BLEAK:

Loose Tie : Klarion loves it when you fix his tie.

Subway Cereal : Klarion gets kicked out of the Teen Titans, you pay him a visit.

Chaos and Creation : Chaos and creation are one in the same, but Klarion wants you to explore both.

—

YARA FLOR:

SFW Alphabet Dramatics

HEADCANONS:

Dating Yara Flor

—

JONATHAN CRANE:

IMAGINES:

1. "How would the Batfamily react if Jason fell in love with Reader, but R only wants her boyfriend, Jonathan Crane."

—

INCORRECT QUOTES:

Ugly (Damian, Tim)

With a bomb (Dick, Damian)

Twas (Damian, Dick, Jason)

Todd repellent (Tim, Jason, Damian)

Guts and glory (Damian, Dick)

911 (Stephanie, Y/N)

Demon child (Jason, Damian)

Hairline (Jason, Dick, Damian)

Turning heads (Jason, Y/N)

Worst and best (Damian, Jason)

Rich men and pretty girls (Stephanie, Dick)

Two Robins (Superman, Batman)

Oh Rao (Stephanie, Barbara)

Positive (Stephanie, Jason, Damian, Tim)

Clever in Latin (Jason, Artemis)

Damian's love (Damian)

Accident (Tim, Damian, Jason)

No in Arabic (Jon, Damian)

Church (Dick, Damian, Stephanie, Jason, Tim)

John Constantine needs a mate (John, Y/N, King Shark)

Dick's buns (Dick, Jason)

If the patriarchy and capitalism had a body count

Proud (Klarion, Stephanie)

Batfamily Communications

Human litter box (Jason, Penguin, Dick)

Hair in food (Damian, Jason)

Crowbar (Damian, Jason)

Oomphiest whomp (Barbara, Y/N)

Monopoly (Barbara, Dick, Damian, Y/N)

Weeping (Dick, Tim)

Love is a pain in the ass (Dick, Y/N, Klarion, Icicle Jr)

Amelia Earhart (Dick, Y/N, Jason)

Pork-cupine (Dick, Y/N, Jason, Stephanie, Barbara, Damian, Cass)

Existential dread (Tim, Y/N, Damian)

Priceless (Jason, Damian)

Dead man running (Jason, Y/N)

Y/N's love triangle (Y/N, Icicle Jr, Klarion)

Batgirls Robin (Y/N, Barbara, Cass, Stephanie)

10 stories (Joker, Y/N, Jason)

Knock knock (Y/N, Tim)

Common sense (Riddler, Y/N)

Brotherly love (Y/N, Damian, Tim)

Stockholm syndrome (Y/N, Joker, Punchline, Stephanie)

Rob the rich furry (Bruce, Y/N)

Pass it on challenge

Belly (Damian, Y/N)

Lemons (Dick, Jason, Y/N)

Shtick

Gravity (Damian, Y/N)

Moo (Jason, Y/N)

Heart eyes (Y/N, Klarion, Damian)

Burnt Cookie (Klarion, Y/N)

—

HEADCANONS:

Best Breakfast Sandwiches

Gotham City Supremacy

Gotham's Rebirth

Zorro

Batfamily vs TikTok

Raya and The Last Dragon

INCORRECT QUOTES:

Top (Sisu, Raya)

Legs (Namaari, Raya)

Ignorance is bliss (Raya, Namaari)

Who said I wasn't gay? (Raya, Namaari)

[unmaskedagain]

Masterpost

Miraculous Ladybug

Queen of Mean AU

Queen of Mean - Part 1 

Worse than the Devil

Made me Do (Queen of Mean)

Sorry (Not Sorry) Queen Mari AU Continuation

I Forgot (Queen Of Mean Au)

CROSSOVER AUs

Marinette: A legacy (Legacies/Vampire DIaries/ Originals)

The Fast and Furious Times Of Marinette (Ladybug/Fast and Furious AU)

The Fast and Furious Times Of Marinette – Headcannons

Marinette: Iron Man’s Minion (Marvel)

Marinette: Iron Man’s Minion: Rising  (Part 2)

Ladybug in Smallville (DCg)

Ladybug in Gotham (and Space) (Part 2)

Ladybug (Not) In Paris (Part 3)

Demon princess (Inuyasha Crossover)

Five boys the Batfamily scared off (And the one boy who helped Marinette get revenge on them all)

Journal entries from a (Fashion) Princess (Princess Diaries)

Cry Little Sister (Come to Your brother) (Lost Boys)

Marinette: Blood Of Steel (Young Justice)

Marinette: Mother of Superboy (Young Justice)

Lady Noire In Gotham (Batman)

Kid Cold (The Flash Au)

DAY AND NIGHT (DC Crossover)

Marinette: Adventures at Camp-Halfblood (PJO crossover)

No, Bruce! You can’t Adopt her

Ladybug: A young Avenger

Marinette VS Santa 

Marinette Vs Santa (Part 1)

Marinette Vs Santa: The Rematch

Marinette Vs Santa: The Final Round

Fan Art

I Knew You Were Trouble (Halloween Town)

Sorry, it’s reserved (Young Justice)

Spider Vs Bird (DC/MARVEL/Ladybug)

Marinette: A merry Little Nightmare (Nightmare before Christmas)

Agent Marinette (Agents of Shield/Marvel/Ladybug)

Irredeemable my foot (Chloe AND Sabrina Sugar) (Batman)

Marinette the Vampire Slayer (Buffy the Vampire Slayer crossover)

Marinette: Adventure on the Tardis 1.0

Marinette on the Tardis Au 2.0

Daddy’s Little Villain (Young Justice)

To all Guys a Chat Loved Before (Adrien Sugar. Batman, Avengers, PJO crossover)

Remember You Young  (Kids Next Door Crossover)

One SHOTS

Rather be Me (than with You)

Mean Queens (Alya Sugar)

Tattered Remains of Broken Dreams (Yours, not Mine)

White Horse (This Ain’t a Fairytale)

Over This (Over you)

Best Birthday Wishes

Bridges Burned (Mama always told me that I should play nice. But she never met you)

Truth is Subjective

Archenemies to Superfriends (Lila-sugar)

Of Promises and Sands of Time (Warning Gabriel-Centric)

Rock Star

Marinette: Crazy Rich

Marinette’s Week Off

Marinette’s Life (after the Week Off)

Rate This (Trust is Hard to Come By)

Raise Yourselves up (We’re Done)

How about… No!

Yeah, I’m done

You had a Friend in Me

Wolves don’t Party with Sheep

Happy Birthday, Miss Bustier

Oh Lady Luck (How I miss you so!)

Gabriel Agreste Must Die

Marinette: Stone Cold

A wolf’s job

Marinette’s Haunted doll AU

And We’ll Always Be Royal

Not Waiting forever 

Marinette’s Special guest

Adrien Centric One-Shots

Chaotic Chat

Teenage Rebellion

DRABBLE

Gabriel’s Regret 

Soul Chaser Drabbles

[ao3feed-brucewayne]

Put A Ring On It Cyclops!

by Yuri_Osakawa The moment Scott Summers murdered Charles Xavier in cold blood under Phoenix influence, he knew…   He knew he was losing control, much like everyone else and himself had predicted. Much like Jean Grey herself lost control, not so long ago…   And so, Scott Summers, mutant leader, a man known by the name of Cyclops, did the only thing he could think of afterwards…   He fled   Or,   After killing Charles Xavier, Cyclops travels to the DC Universe so that they could stop him and later gets tangled up with the Batfamily Words: 1148, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English Fandoms: X-Men - All Media Types, X-Men (Comicverse), Batman - All Media Types Rating: General Audiences Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Characters: Scott Summers, Bruce Wayne, Batfamily Members (DCU) Relationships: Scott Summers & Batfamily, Scott Summers & Bruce Wayne Additional Tags: Crossover, Crossovers & Fandom Fusions, Post-Marvel Comic Event: Avengers vs. X-Men (2012), Marvel Comic Event: Avengers vs. X-Men (2012), Yellow Lanterns (DCU), Hurt Scott Summers, Good Parent Bruce Wayne, Protective Batfamily (DCU) via https://ift.tt/jwz0v1b

[hellyeahheroes]

If you floow me on twitter or are part of our discord server, you probably know that I have announced that for the time being I’m giving up on Marvel and DC, at least when it comes to new releases and announcments. I will make an exception for Runaways (unless that turns into a glorified X-Book as I fear) and catch up to some older books.

As I have said before, for quite some time I am feeling less and less joy and excitement about new Marvel and DC announcments. Especially as DC keeps shrinking and becoming increasingly “Batman Comics Comics”, where even fuckign Scooby-Doo must now be only about Batman, a character I do not like. All while the only thing keeping me in Bat-sphere, the batfamily, gets increasingly more undermined. there are maybe 5-6 Batfam members who consistently get spotlight. 4 if you don’t count Catwoman and Harley Quinn as Batfam members, then it is only Dick, Jason, Babs and Damian. Yes, Damian getting the very arc Cass Cain fans were BEGGING for DC to give her for the last 15 years is what prompted my decision. But really, it is a straw that broke the cammel’s back. Or, as we say in my country, a drop that filled the goblet of bitterness. 

For over a decade I have now watched various character in the Batfam that I like - Cass but also Steph, Duke, Harper, We Are Robin and Gotham Academy kids, etc. - get passed on and ignored or relegated to jobbers and pointless, useless cameoes in crowd scenes, in favor of the same four. And their fans would always say this isn’t the right time and ask me to be a good consumer and buy these books because if they succeed then for sure others will get their moment to shine too. But that moment never came. I’ve been told that during One Year Later, after Battle of the Cowl, during New 52, during DC You, during DC Rebirth, during New Justice and now. If I lach onto a new character they quickly become a victim of the same treatment, as was with Duke, with Harper or with Maya. And if my faves get something it is either immediatelly undermined by other books (See how all work Bryan Hill put into showing Cass as skilled fighter been undermined by King, Thomasi and Williamson who saw her only as a worthless jobber to prop their lame villains) or ignored (see Duke who vanished after that book ended) or isn’t about them at all (see League of Shadows, billed as Cass story but was really about Ras Al’Ghul). 

Currently Batbooks grow even larger but nothing changes, the promised spotlight for anyone else didn’t come. tom Taylor made a huge deal of being a Cass fan and instead he is writing Nightwing and another Batman book. Joshua Williamsone is now handing on a silver platter everything Cass fans asked for to Damian and Future State Batgirls series in anthology got replaced by a Grifter story - because DC thinks a guy so removed from Batfam he is literally from another universe is bigger part of the Batfamily than Cass and Steph. Fucking Joker got a book instead, we need that edgelord incel money I guess. And with rest of DCU shrinking to the point even Aquaman and Green Arrow (two titles I liked for various supporting cast members like Emiko Queen or Jackson Hyde, btw) got axed to make more room for Batman, there is just less things to be excited about outside a line that made it clear fans, who don’t like marketing department-approved characters and only them, are not welcome.

And at Marvel I could repeat above paragraphs with X-Men. More and more X-books that tie-in to an arc I tremendously dislike and been vocal critic of, less and less anything else. Even writers I like and had high hopes of end up doing same X-book as everyone else and it is an X-book in which characters I like are at best given pointless cameo and at worst killed and replaced by someone else in their body to show how dangerous the villain is. Or banished to another dimension. Or shown to be stupid and “manipulated by evil” for pointing problematic things about current books. And that on top of the same spiell of being told to shup up and let X-fandom enjoy their books about same five people and that sure everyone I like, like NXM kids, will get their moment to shine soon....and said moment never comes. Been told that during Manifest Destiny, during Nation X, during Curse of Mutants, during Schism, after AvX, after Secret Wars, after Inhumans vs X-Men, I’m being told that now. Instead X-books scrap bottom of the barrel to only give titles to characters from 80′s and 90′s to the point we have fucking Scalphunter book now.

All the while X-Fandom has shown itself to be extremly toxic and entitled, something I have seen when they wished for Nico and Chase to die in Avengers Arena because they felt X-men deserve to take Molly away from Runaways. And when they cheered the death of Juston for having a good Sentinel. Or when they acted toxic to Inhumans fandom while claiming oppression because they had “only” four books a month. Once again I feel like everything I like about Marvel gets pushed out in favor of its most toxic part, a part that made it very clear I and people who like same characters like me, are not welcome in it. Out of few books who stand out Ms. Marvel and immortal Hulk are ending. Champions, while good, is not the type of story I can stomach in current political climate. Runaways I fear they’ll be swallowed or at least undermined by X-Men too. Similiarly I am anxious about Miles, with Donny Cates lurking around looking like he wants to undermine everything Saladin Ahmed built for the sake of 00′s nostalgia.

Reading news and seeing new books doesn’t give me happiness anymore, just more frustration and sadness. I came to beleive it is not good for my mental health. So for time being I’m going to retreat to regain my strength. If other people running this blog, like @keeper-of-the-lore or @ubernegro or @majingojira want to talk about current books or news here, go ahead, I will just stay away for the time being from these conversations and stick to reading and talking about older stuff I wanted to check out but never had a time to do it properly. And if a book I wanted does appear while I’m taking this time off, well, I’d rather be late to the party that constantly passed on the invtations and waiting like a moron to get one.

-Admin

[bigskydreaming]

Have you read Nightwing 71 yet? Sorry if I spoiler anything, but Ric was "groomed" "manipulated" and "brainwashed" by owls and, he IS now. I mean, AGAIN. Wow. Does DC ever know that Dick(or Ric) has his own character and personality and he is human, not tool ready to be used whenever or whoever needs? I am getting sick of this Ric grayson the free real estate BS.

I just read it now and its what I was expecting to happen but somehow it played out even worse than I was prepared for. There’s one line in particular that I don’t want to spoil in case any followers still care about that book being spoiled in terms of specific/detailed spoilers at this point, but something the Joker says to Dick near the end of the issue just makes this soooooooo much worse IMO than just another brainwashing for him. 

But I mean, lbr here. This isn’t the Church of Blood or even the Court of Owls messing with Dick’s mind this time. Literally playing God with his entire sense of self and view of reality. Its the Joker. 

The. JOKER.

This has officially pushed this story arc over even my disdain for the Forever Evil mess, and as far as I’m concerned, the rest of the Batfam should be BEGGING for his forgiveness after all this is said and done, no matter what he ends up doing while under the Joker’s control. I’m honestly going to just skip any fic that attempts to conclude or follow-up from this arc with anything other than the Batfam ALL busting their fucking asses off to do the work this time and put TIME and EFFORT into getting him to trust them or even want them around again at this point, because anything less than that will just leave me steaming at this point. 

Literally the ONLY thing I want to read right now is a fic where someone in his family figures out ON THEIR OWN, LIKE ACTUAL DETECTIVES that no one who has had his mind and agency violated and disregarded as often as he has - just that they even KNOW of - could possibly be alright, and so based off of even just plain simple logic he can not possibly be alright, and so could one of them just fucking SHOW UP for him, and not to try to fix him according to what THEY think he needs but just to be there and ask what HE needs? 

Where they make themselves a resource rather than them the knight in shining armor to his damsel in distress? Where they let it be about HIM instead of it being about them avenging him or them putting him back together or them protecting him or them somehow ending up more front and center and making more of the choices in-story than he gets to even though its supposed to be about him?

Like....just a story where the Batfam doesn’t have to wait until he has a literal breakdown before realizing he’s not okay and hasn’t been for a long time.  Where they look at the LONG string of times none of them have been there when he needed someone, and ask themselves WHY it is that they all expect him to be present and accounted for whenever they need him but none of them ever seem to be around when he could use a hand - even though they all always pretty much know exactly where to find him.....like, he’s the only hero in Bludhaven. They know this. Everyone knows this. 

Like, its not that hard to google “is shit going down in Bludhaven this week y/n” and drive half an hour when they hear his circus just got burned to the ground AGAIN or his apartment building was just blown up or there are four randos running around in his old costumes or the local crime lord just hired a dozen major assassins to all try and bring him Nightwing’s head.

Or his evil dead grandpa who last we saw was being handed over to Bruce’s custody BY Dick himself is somehow out on the loose again, why aren’t his family putting bets on where Rob Zombie’s bound to end up at some point - oh yeah, watching him through his window all creeperlike - I mean, I know their dad’s a billionaire but that’s just easy money. When a dude whose obsession is as hard to kill off as he is and with the backing and resources of a whole secret society of rich fucks who all think Dick’s destiny is to dance on the end of their strings, like when they all show a tendency to keep coming back like cockroaches no matter how many times they get stomped, what’s the best proactive approach to being prepared for the next time? 

Oh right, leave the sole focus of their constant attempts at abduction/manipulation/brainwashing completely isolated, alone and defenseless without even the memory of why he shouldn’t trust someone who shows up claiming to be his great-grandfather even when he actually turns out to be the real deal.....’see, its not that he’s lying about who he is, its that who he is happens to be evil.”

Seriously. HOW is this a family of geniuses??

HOW is fandom so often convinced its DICK who’s the dumbass out of all of them, when this is their brains on “oh no, Dick’s not here to tell us what to do while we bitch at him for it.’

Imagine fics where someone in Dick’s family looks at the HUGE number of holes in their knowledge of his life.....the periods of long stretches of time where NONE of them were in contact with him and thus have ANY idea what might have happened to their infamously-tightlipped-about-when-bad-things-happen-to-him brother/son without them knowing about it.....and wonder...hey, what DID happen to him during those times and isn’t it weird and WORRISOME that he’s never volunteered any info about those periods and we’ve never ASKED?

Aka the years he was estranged from Bruce because Bruce couldn’t pull his head out of his ass long enough to apologize to Dick for firing him and then turning around and hiring a new kid who gets the Wayne adoption AND the Grayson family name that were BOTH kept or taken from Dick when he was still pretty much just a kid himself.

Or the long months Dick spent infiltrating the mobs and then the Society of Supervillains when he was Coping Badly after everything that happened to him in Bludhaven, both what they know of and whatever else they don’t know of that could’ve been driving him back then....driving him straight into the company of VILLAINS rather than them.

Or literally anything that happened to him while he was working undercover by himself for the highly dangerous and infamous spy agency that also tried to take over his brain (PS - how many people don’t know that the ultimate resolution of the Grayson series, the endgame, was Dick battling the main villain for control over his own mind, because guess the villain’s plans for him were? Oh yeah, to be his new host body when he downloaded his consciousness into Dick’s body and kicked Dick’s consciousness to the curb. LOLOL. Ah yes. Everybody wants Dick Grayson - just without the parts that actually MAKE him Dick Grayson.)

Etc, etc, ad nauseam.

Everybody talks endlessly about how Dick Grayson is a people person and the heart of the family and his teams and nobody thinks twice about the fact that this is the same person who is so infamously often left on his own to his own devices battling the worst of the worst and everybody thinks oh he’s fiiiiiiiiiine. Like, I’m not actually sold on the idea that Dick is an extrovert rather than an introvert vs he just fakes being an extrovert very well....but what does it say that everybody ASSUMES Dick is this huge extrovert and yet.....it never occurs to them to seek HIM out and surround HIM with the people that supposedly an extrovert like him should need to recharge and recover after enduring shit like he does?

How about instead of a million fics where Dick’s agency is ignored yet again so the Batfam can dramatically find out about his rapes whether he likes it or not, and insert THEIR idea of what should happen next/how he should deal.....how about fics where he TELLS one of them or all of them about these or other events that have happened to him, on HIS timetable, of his OWN volition....because he WANTS to? Because he’s READY? Because he honestly believes it’ll help him to tell them, that they’ll be there for him, he TRUSTS this....because they’ve already done the work of proving to him they will or giving him reason to believe they will....rather than just leaving him with no other choice?

Just....

Think about how often Dick’s casually referred to as the glue that holds the family together or the emotional heart or center of it.....

And then wonder if maybe the reason the Batfam as a whole is so fucked up....

Is because what everyone calls the HEART of it is constantly left neglected, alone, and fucked up and not taken care of, not looked after....

Like....

What tends to happen when you don’t take care of your heart? Protect it? Keep it healthy, keep it safe?

Y’die.

Your body goes stone cold. You keel over. DOA.

Hmmm.

Don’t want the Batfamily to be cold...distant....a family in name only....

MAYBE YOU SHOULD PAY MORE ATTENTION TO ITS SO-CALLED HEART THEN.

[gement]

Seeking the good Batdad comics

So, preface, I come from early Batman: the Animated Series, movies no less than a decade old (which don’t count for nearly as much but are big background flavor), and a scattershot reading of comics that have thus far not included a huge concentration of Robins. I’ve read the original canon Jason and Tim introductions and Jason’s death.

I am trying, even striving, to get enough canon under my belt to understand the bedrock of the AO3 fandom’s profound adoration of Batfamily. It was news to me, and it was news to some other Batman nerds of my acquaintance when I asked them about it. I don’t have the underlying intuition or sympathy for it that would let me write it well, so I’ve swandived into reading a bunch of recommended pivotal stories focused on the various Batkids. I’ve been looking forward to meeting Batdad.

I, uh, haven’t found any canon examples of that going well yet. Any.

To be fair, there are a lot of bad Batman comics in the world. And I am a big fan of throwing out as much canon as you want in favor of the good bits. I have read mountains of Avengers Clubhouse fic. But I’m still searching for good bits to build from.

What I’m finding instead is, for example, that time that the 17 year old who’s never had an outside life decided not to bother wearing a mask because she didn’t care about having an outside life. And instead of saying “Maybe postpone that decision and try meeting some people,” he said (italics are exact quotes from Batgirl #14), “I’m glad you want to use your identity. It makes you a more effective weapon. Here is a cave to live in all alone starting right now. You’d compromise Oracle’s identity if you stayed with her.” And then she lived there all alone for over a year and Oracle had to fight to stay in her life and Batman actively growled at any non-bat male under 25 years old who tried to spend time with her, like a vengeful father who also encouraged her to live alone. In a cave.

That one was admittedly during the same era as all the Terrible Stephanie Brown Writing Decisions We Do Not Speak Of, but... everywhere I look seems like it’s like that. I’ve been spoken to firmly by fans who say Batman doesn’t raise soldiers or treat people as weapons and, uh. See above. I catch some lovely flashes of siblings+Alfred bonding over their common cause of Working Around Bruce’s Shit, and that’s about it.

Please recommend me some runs or even individual issues where canon Bruce Wayne is actually a supportive parent. TV versions also happily accepted. I care less than zero about main continuity vs AU/one-shots.

Or, failing that, just let me know some fun bits with multiple Batfam bouncing off of each other despite him, I can mine that. I currently have a DC Universe all-you-can-eat pass for this research dive.

[batfamily--headcanons]

I really want to understand this universe(the golden era I think) so could you guide me on which comics I should read

I will first admit that I am no expert on comics and I’m not particularly good at keeping track of the different eras. However, I can give you a list of what I think are some of the most classic Batman/Batfam/DC stories and the ones I just adore.

Batman: A Death In the Family-Classic story, everyone pretty much knows of this story but not everyone has read it. This is when Jason Todd (Robin #2) is brutally murdered by the Joker and it is the first introduction to Robin #3, Tim Drake. It gets really weird in the middle, when the Joker becomes an ambassador for Iran, but stick with it because Tim’s introduction is one of the most interesting Robin origin stories.

Batman: Death Of the Family-This is a different story despite the way too similar name. It’s newer and more gruesome than you might expect. This is the story where the Joker taunts the entire Batfamily and kidnaps them all. It has the whole Batfam in it which is what made me want to pick it up and read it in the first place and is definitely a great way to understand the characters as all of their greatest fears are revealed in this story. There are multiple issues spanning across different series from Batman to Red Hood and The Outlaws, so I definitely recommend getting the trade paperback of it because it’s easier than hunting down each issue in order.

Batman: The Long Halloween-This is such a classic story with lots of Batman Rogues running around and causing mayhem. They’re also speculating that this is potentially what the new Robert Pattinson Batman movie is based on, so it might be good to read if you’re excited for that movie (I have mixed feelings, but I’m hopeful). Also as a huge Agents of SHIELD and comic fan in general, I love so much of what Jeph Loeb does.

Tom King’s current Batman run-Pretty good until the wedding issue and then shit goes off the rails fast and it angered a lot of fans, myself included. Nevertheless, it did have some great moments. He also wrote Heroes in Crisis, which I do not recommend at all.

Batman:The Killing Joke-The animated movie did this story so dirty and I will always be mad. It’s one of the many possible Joker origin stories and the most popular by far. It’s not a very long story, but it absolutely regarded as a classic and it is when Barbara gets shot by the Joker so it’s also important for a major change in canon as well. Solid writing, beautiful art. I could go on about this forever. If you do decide to watch the movie, skip the first half, it’s ridiculous filler (with a ridiculous 90′s stereotypical gay character to boot).

Dick Grayson as Agent 37-This was a pretty fun storyline all things considered. It’s great if you want to fully understand Dick’s character without getting confused about the baggage that is having all of the Batfam characters around. For some people, they get the Robins easily confused (part of that is DC’s fault for literally drawing the same character but just taller or shorter) so it shines the spotlight on Dick.

Red Hood and The Outlaws (The one with Roy and Kori)-I so badly want to recommend this because I love these characters together, but Lobdell’s writing is not always spot-on and his depiction of Kori is comic book misogyny at its finest at times. Maybe read the first few issues just to get a better feel for post-Lazarus pit Jason, but it’s not the best series.

Red Hood:The Lost Years:I am a slut for Jason Todd angst, I won’t lie and so this is one of my personal favourites and it helps to establish resurrected Jason’s character to new readers. You really see how he struggled after his death and Talia al Ghul is there too which is even better. Jason is one of the most interesting and complex characters in all of DC comics and they almost never do anything exciting with his character so this series is a breath of fresh air. 

Batman:Under the Red Hood-This is about Jason’s return to Gotham after being resurrected and it’s great. The conflict between him and Bruce once he learns that it’s Jason under the hood is so well-written and you find yourself agreeing with both of them to an extent. Another great Jason Todd story. There’s also an animated movie based on this as well and it’s pretty good all things considered (I have Jay’s speech to Bruce at the end memorized so that should tell how much I enjoy it).

A lot of the new 52 stuff is not great. Tim’s new 52 Titans team were just kind of meh and like I said, Red Hood and the Outlaws had potential but was brought down by not so great writing. I wish I could remember some good Tim or Damian stories right now, but I’m blanking. Super Sons is newer, but I liked it quite a bit. It’s about Damian, Bruce’s blood son, and Jon Kent, Superman and Lois’ son fighting crime and going on adventures together. It’s a nice bit of fluff in the darkness that comics has become these days.

Harley Quinn (The Jimmy Palmiotti/Amanda Conner series)-This one is probably one of my favourite new 52 releases. I love where they’ve taken Harley’s character, she’s more than just the Joker’s girlfriend and this series shows it. It’s not too serious and most of the time, it can be downright weird, but it’s so fun you can’t help but love it. I own every single issue from the Conner/Palmiotti run. I haven’t read it since they left, so if anyone has, let me know if it’s any good because from what I did see of it, I wasn’t super impressed.

I do have some non-DC recs too so I’ll put them here as well because why not

House of X/Powers of X-The best X-Men story in recent memory and I love the X-Men so much so this makes me so happy. They’ve done some very interesting things with the characters and I love the acknowledgement that Franklin Richards is technically a mutant and the catty way that Cyclops does it is great.

House of M-One of the best X-Men stories and probably what WandaVision will be taking a lot of inspiration from. If you like alternate universes and reality bending, this is for you.

Matt Fraction’s run on the Hawkeye solo series-This is what made me fall in love with Clint and Kate as characters. It shows that the Hawkeyes are not useless Avengers and it has a bit of humour to it, which I love. The Kate Bishop follow-up to this is pretty good too, but I haven’t finished it yet so I can’t vouch for the whole series.

Deadpool Killustrated Series-This is just Wade murdering his way through the Marvel Universe and then through the classic literary characters that those characters were based on. It’s dark, funny, strange story that’s a whole lot of fun without having to worry about keeping up with 80 years of canon. 

I hope this helped in some small way. I am always up for talking comic recommendations since none of my real life friends care about comics. If anyone has any recommendations for me, I am all ears. I read stuff from all over so brand is no issue. I don’t really feed into that Marvel vs DC stuff anymore. Both companies have their strengths and weaknesses and that’s okay. It’s really late here and I’m procrastinating writing a paper so do forgive any spelling errors or completely incoherent sentences :) Stay safe everyone!