#as for others I need to explore more

[demigods-posts]

imagine if thalia visited percy on his fifteen birthday. an apology lodged somewhere in the back of her throat. knocking on the apartment door while holding back tears. sally greeting her with the warm smile of a mother. paul welcoming her inside with the kind tone of a father. imagine thalia surprised to see percy and nico bonding over two slices of blue cake. feeling even more alienated as a big three kid. knowing these two had a relationship without her. imagine thalia meeting percy's eyes from across the room. and for a brief second. she swears his previously gleeful gaze turns cold and bitter. and she's waiting for the anger. for the tide to drown her. and she's prepared to welcome it. but then his gaze turns remorseful. and then apologetic. and he doesn't yell at her. instead. he invites her to sit next to him and nico. and welcomes her to a slice of blue cake. because time will pass anyway. and life's way too short for kids like them to not hold each other through it.

[gloriousfckingpurpose]

i know they underutilized the frankenstein aspect in the movie but it really does feel like the creature was perfectly created for lisa regardless. from what we saw, he spent his whole life lonely; dead parents, isolating social life, failed romantic prospects, the whole shebang, but he never gets to do anything about it because he dies, suddenly and unstoppably. until he’s suddenly alive again and the whole world is different but there’s this girl who tended to his grave when nobody else would have given him that respect, who’s experiencing the same things he did who actually has the chance to get back at the people who didn’t care for her, one tiny bit of familiarity to him… of course he’s going to kill for her just to see her happy.

[dykedvonte]

You ever just see a Mouthwashing take that makes you want to bang your head into a wall? I literally just saw someone claim Curly couldn't have been emotionally abused by Jimmy before the crash because he was in a higher position of power than Jimmy.

-Shrimp Anon

The mouthwashing fandom has shown me that people genuinely do believe that certain types of abuse are not as detrimental as other types especially when they deem those immune/resistant, ergo, believing one is objectively worse no matter how it affects the person nor the intersections of power, history and dynamics at play.

Get ready cause this is a yap session:

Cause like it's heavily implied that Curly and Jimmy's friendship was toxic and abusive, pointedly in the direction of how Jimmy uses Curly's belief/comfort in him. Curly wasn't forced to enable Jimmy but he was emotional and mentally on edge around him in almost every scene in some way. Mental and emotional abuse are not contingent on what positions you have at work. Yeah, he's Jimmy's boss but he was Jimmy's friend first and it's like getting into Psych discussion to talk about how social power tends to overshadow any perceived organizational power in the human mind. People are concerned about their jobs ofc but they tend to hang onto and put more value/investment into their personal relationships, hence why there tends to be laws and restrictions around mixing the two.

I always see the sentiments that "Curly is a grown ass man", "Curly is bigger than Jimmy", "Curly is Jimmy's boss", "He just needed a backbone" as criticisms of Curly and while I do agree that on the surface level all of these to be true and viable ways Curly could've taken more control of the situation, I often look at the parallels of Anya and Curly as victims of Jimmy pre/post crash.

The way Jimmy talks to Anya post crash is how he talked to Curly in the pre-crash segments. It's hard to pin-point mainly because we know he hates and wants nothing to do with Anya compared to his contrary but similarly handled obsessions with Curly. It's a weird sort of "honey-moon" effect of abuse Jimmy does in terms of emotional and mental victimization. He is always horrid to Anya, always talking down or questioning her abilities and thoughts in a situation, this of course includes the harassment and assault. However, he has a moment of attempted gentleness/conditioning when he question her about the mouthwash when she's contemplating drinking it at the table. The key difference is he has no personal investment in Jimmy outside wanting nothing to do with him, meaning there is no sort of romanticized version of him that he can condition her off of. He knows this, hence, why he always reverts to trying to make her to scared to oppose him.

This sort of give and take of "kindness" doesn't work on her because she knows he is just doing it to take more from her than whatever he could possibly give but it reflects even the "softer" scenes between him and Curly where he always rewords or rephrases Curly's sentiments and concerns to sound more shallow. He is feigning a deeper understanding by reworking Curly's emotions into something bad and needing to be hidden. Everything is laced with envy and resentment, an outburst just around the corner, I mean he even slams the table in the birthday party scene, a tactic in emotional manipulation to set the victim on edge and cloud their ability to respond. Even if Curly knows Jimmy won't get physical in that moment, the physical actions is intended to make him back down in the confrontation in case it does. This is something that is just not person specific. It ingrains itself into how you interact with the world and life and it shows in major and minor ways with Curly.

Post-crash, the abusive nature is more in tandem to the physical victimization Anya went through and the stripping of voice and autonomy we see take place. Like the parasite in HFIM, Jimmy speaks for Curly most of the time and puts words in his mouth, similarly to how he takes Anya's plans as his own. He very commonly, with the both of them mind you, supplements the worst aspects of himself into them; pettiness, selfishness, lack of understanding... And tries to cover himself with their best qualities; kindness, planning, initiative, etc...

These parallel are just to say that positional power has little to do with if a person can be abused and how it can even be flipped to further the abuse. There is no doubt that Curly could've picked up on Jimmy's envy of his position hence another reason he never confronted him as a Captain but as a friend as doing so would immediately put Jimmy in a space to be confrontational/combative.

I think the disdain some people have when they talk about the heavily implied if not implicitly stated emotional/mental abuse Curly experienced being Jimmy's friend is when treating it as an excuse to why he didn't do more. I can understand that completely because it is not an excuse to why he didn't do more but is a very real reason people in his position in these scenarios can experience whether in the context of a work or social environment. However, I also think the way people talk about it really does demonstrate a bigger problem when talking about abuse when somehow who is/was abused is either part of the issue or enabled it.

Harkening back to the sentiments about Curly's inaction regarding Jimmy, I think the exact phrases I used/have seen show how there is an inherent belief that it is easier to overpower the effects of emotional/mental abuse that go in tandem with the perception of Curly as someone who should be able to. There is not an age you suddenly stop being susceptible to abuse nor a set point or low where you realize how it has affected you. You don't suddenly know to stand up or put a face on to face your abuser nor admit that you inadvertently enabled them to subjugate someone else to the same treatment. Maybe it's my psych brain but their is this growing belief that direct action is somehow easy or always the best method with the game shows you instances where it is not always the case. In real life that rings true too. He should have done more, but it's not impossible to see why he struggled to find a way or didn't even if it makes us mad.

It's not easy to suddenly gain a "back-bone". You don't immediately want to resort to aggression, especially if it mirrors the type you were a victim to. You don't want to believe you allowed yourself to be treated this bad, let it get that bad or allowed something bad to happen to someone else. It is easy to be in denial, to retreat to your thoughts or make excuses to avoid the painful truth. It's frustrating but in a way we know is relatable. It why we both hate and love Curly for it. We know we'd be better, we think we'd be better, we like to think we wouldn't falter in the same ways but it's always easier to say that from the outside looking in. It's easy to see what he was doing wrong because we are seeing it, not him, but the game really does make you picture what you would do if this was your raw reality and it's why this debate about Curly seems so never ending/contradictory. We can all say what we'd do but bottom line is that's much different when you're in the moment with all the emotions and human feelings attached.

I personally think Mouthwashing tackles the themes of rape culture, enabling, toxic masculinity, types of abuse and patriarchy in ways that are meant to deconstruct the typical straightforward views we mostly have of these concepts and how little subtilities of them are just as, if not more, detrimental than the overt/obvious parts. The game deals with the idea of little details and bigger picture in a way to show that sometimes the bigger picture is not the issue but the little details that make it up. It's why I have a personal dislike of depictions of Jimmy as the typical horrible person who would of course do something like this because the game is about noticing the little warning signs, the foreshadowing and foresight.

It's why I dislike the typical discussion of "bro code" and "boys will be boys" for the game because the game makes a point to avoid the standard depictions of such. It is about the type of men who still enable despite not condoning, agreeing or even perpetuating harmful beliefs because they can't see the little details or the ways it seeps into their everyday. The severity is not obvious to them as it was not obvious to Curly, Swansea or even Daisuke the way it was to a woman like Anya. There are little details about Jimmy that should ring alarms but if you are too naive like Daisuke, too distant like Swansea or too conditioned like Curly, they are just off markers.

There is 100% more constructive/concise ways to say "Curly was a victim of Jimmy's abuse on an emotional and mental aspect that clouded his judgements and perceptions in the scenario" while also critiquing on the side of "Curly still had a responsibility to protect Anya as a crew mate and Captain that he failed to do due to biases and stigma's he failed to surpass" without the weird condemnation people give him about should've knowing better than to let himself be manipulated by a person he considered a close, if not family/best-friend and had his own reasons to trust initially. Also stop being weird about victims of abuse in general with this fandom, like sorry not everyone has a like social epiphany the moment someone's nasty to them. People are treating it like you immediately know when you are in a toxic relationship immediately or comprehend when a person is actively dangerous and either it's your fault for not knowing how to leave/cut them off or you deserve it. Like the hypocrisy of people believing how certain fans treat the story reflect their irl views but not their own is crazy.

End statement is: I honestly don't even know man, I've been writing this too long and just like no man on that ship was perfect or really helped Anya when it mattered and I feel like pitting them against each other in discussion on who did the least or most or how it was justified sucks cause in the end Anya always did the most and best thing for herself.

[moonsnqil]

Kevin watching Jean ask Jeremy if he's okay, watching Jean offer to hold Laila's bag so she can fix her shoe, watching Jean hand Cat a granola bar before a game because she looked a little unsteady. He's not jealous, he had his time by Jean's side. Maybe it's grief. Grief for something that was never so innocent, never so untouched by cruel hands, something that could've been better if they were anyone else. Grief for something that's long passed and can never be fixed to be made better than before. He had his time at the receiving end of Jean's concerned glances. Maybe he's just a little sad that when he's at an away game, he no longer buys post cards for a friend. Maybe he just misses this person who used to always be by his side but they both knows it's better this way. Jean is happy, it's not with Kevin, and that's okay.

[blaithnne]

Ohhh so THAT’S why they call her Mum

[lemongogo]

they should get to kill each other at least twice .i think

[bayetea]

there are many things about hazel's povs that have an intensely de-racialized vibe to them (read: divorced from the black girl experience) but I think any black person will tell you that the most obvious sign is the complete lack of attention paid to her hair

like firstly:

she's from the 1930s her hair was definitely getting permed and straightened (it was not acceptable to just wear your natural hair out back then. optics + cultural assimilation/you'll be hard pressed to find photos of black american girls with unstraightened hair in that time period unless they're from like..... harlem)

I do believe that marie was straightening it for her For A Time but then she became more neglectful and stopped so hazel had to do it herself. I'm almost positive that hazel wouldn't have even been permitted to set foot in her school building without straightening it because that's just how much of an expectation it was

ok she comes back from the dead. what's she doing to her hair now bc it's not just gonna be cutesy effortless curls falling over her shoulder no matter what the length is

how does she feel about living in a time period where natural black hair is more accepted (read: more, absolutely not fully)

there are no black people around her At All. in fact she's around a lot of white people on the argo (+nico) so that would probably be giving her some intense feelings of double consciousness (look this term up if you don't know what it means) and that would inform how she feels about her hair

theoretically she ought to be wearing her hair in braids for simplicity's sake but I think it's more likely that she would cling to what she knows (perming/straightening) because it's not easy for a 14 year old girl (PSA hazel is 14.5 in hoo not 13 btw 👍) to go from assimilating to deeply-ingrained white hair beauty standards to just proudly wearing a distinctly black hairstyle all by herself

mind you black women and girls can do whatever they want with their hair and straightening/perming it does not always/have to come from a place of self-hatred or whatever but in this particular case back then straightening one's hair was political And a survival tactic. it was as normal as brushing your teeth. it was enforced through dominant cultural messagings about the Absolute Necessity of conforming to white conventions of beauty. if you don't understand then think of it similarly to how you'd think of 1930s women needing to be perpetually dolled up and modestly dressed in order to be considered "good women" and anyways I'm just saying that this would be a lot to unpack for a 14 year old girl so hazel's probably just continuing to do this impractical thing (straightening her hair all the time) like 60% out of habit and 20% out of shame and 20% she doesn't know what else to do

something something about a missed potential character arc regarding all of this and in general there's so little mind paid to race in hazel's povs which is just ridiculous to me because a black girl from the jim crow era should have at least a few feelings about where she fits into modern society even if that society is camp jupiter. rick demonstrates his capacity to talk about how his characters feel about their race most notably in the kane chronicles so I don't think was too much to ask for. see this quote from an early son of neptune chapter:

^ like....... hazel's feelings of out-of-place-ness are There in the text and important to take note of when understanding her character (note that she's been there for like a year already and she still feels like she doesn't belong) but the emphasis is always put on her Being from a different time or Being undead and is never put on her out-of-place-ness regarding her race as a black girl from segregation times who is literally so out-of-place in this weird post-racial camp jupiter society. it feels like such an obvious thing to consider so its glaring absence really bugs me when I reread her povs and it bugs me when her hair is never talked about by extension because It Matters

you might be thinking "well she had a lot going on and she's not a superficial person maybe she just didn't care what was going on with her hair" and my response is simply that Black girls don't get to "not care" about their hair it is not the same thing as a white person going to school with bedhead it's not the same thing At All (if you aren't black then chances are you've never actually seen what untouched black hair looks like in the morning), especially when it's been beaten into your head for your entire life that your hair is ugly and you have to "do something to it" for it to be acceptable (and again...... she's from the 1930s so that feeling is magnified like 50x over). remember that perpetually dolled up modest 1930s woman I mentioned previously. picture her time traveling to camp jupiter of all places in 2010 and struggling to drop all of her makeup/hairstyling routines and internalized misogyny and conceptualizations of what women are "supposed" to be. this is the kind of fascinating character exploration that we really missed out on with hazel (and tbh regardless of her race she was never believably written as someone from the 1930s. I don't think rick even really tried to be honest)

you might also be wondering "how was rick supposed to know/attempt to portray any of that" and then my second answer is that If you're going to write a character who is not the same race as you then you should do some research and we have the internet now so research has never been easier 👍 this would be especially important to do if that person is a poc from the jim crow era I think! (he could have at least googled black hair 1930s)

anyways what I choose to believe (this is pure fanfiction) is that during hazel's first year at camp jupiter (remember that she was there for about a year before son started) nico would have helped her figure something out after observing her distress over her hair c: like they both secretly watched youtube videos on black hairstyles circa 2010 and then they got attacked by monsters for using a laptop (neither of them know how to use a laptop but he's trying his best for her) but then after killing them he helped her do her hair as something she likes that is easy to maintain <3 (I could also see reyna doing this because she surely knows a thing or two from her spa days)

[joshuamj]

In Time and Stars

[s4ndg3m]

hear me out on scag x split guys. they both start with "s" it's practically canon.

[silverskye13]

"I feel crazy," Helsknight said.

Tanguish blinked, the sound of Helsknight's voice pulling him awake when he was just on the teetering edge of sleep. His thoughts had started taking on the fluid, picture-like quality of half-dreams, all over-bright and surreal. The inside of the kitchen, the overhead lights, but in primary colors and tilting shapes. He hadn't even realized he was so close to sleep until Helsknight was speaking. Then Tanguish's eyes were open, and the world was decidedly more mundane.

Tanguish shifted, humming tunelessly, a filler for thoughts he was having trouble forming. At length he asked, "Crazy?"

Helsknight sighed. Tanguish heard it as a deep, hollow huff of air pressed against his ear, lungs filling. Helsknight had collapsed onto the couch, arms around the arm rest, head pillowed over the side. It had been a long day, and he had been tired, and Tanguish had collapsed on top of him, a forming habit. The cold of Tanguish's ice soothed Helsknight's feverish skin, soothed him restful, and Tanguish found the sound of the knight's heartbeat and the hand that occasionally stroked his hair twin comforts.

"Today I was fine," Helsknight said, blinking up at the ceiling. "I was strong, fit, and healthy. My hands didn't shake. My breaths were easy. My thoughts were mine. It was a good day."

Helsknight didn't frown exactly. His eyes were closed, and the scars on his face were pale traces that made the sharp plane of his cheekbone more obvious, and turned his eyebrow into odd segments. Those scars pulled together slightly as his eyebrows drew closer, a line creasing between them. Not a frown exactly, but something that wandered the same avenues of expression.

"It's like last week never happened."

Helsknight opened his eyes and blinked at the ceiling. He repeated, "I feel crazy."

"Life is good days and bad days," Tanguish said gently, treading his way carefully into the conversation. He rested his chin in the center of Helsknight's chest and gave another tuneless hum, something that rattled in his throat almost like a purr. He hoped it was soothing. "I'm glad you're feeling better."

"It feels shameful," Helsknight said, that furrow in his brow deepening, taking on the contours of a proper scowl. "Like I made a big deal out of nothing."

"You believed it was bad enough at the time," Tanguish offered, a reuse of the knight's own words, his oaths about lying. I believed it was true at the time, so no tenet was broken; no sin committed. "I could tell you were hurting."

"I was hurting," Helsknight agreed and sighed again, his eyes closing. "But I should have handled it better."

"Would you begrudge someone their fears over a broken arm, just because in a few months it's healed?"

"It hasn't been a few months. It's been days."

"Time heals needs differently?"

"Tanguish."

"I don't see any logic in these thoughts, Helsknight," Tanguish said gently, letting out another tuneless purr. "Chasing them, I mean. You were hurting, and it knocked you off your feet. You're better now, so today, you were back on them. And it was a good day."

"It was a good day," Helsknight agreed quietly.

"Enjoy it while you have it," Tanguish whispered. He waited patiently for Helsknight to respond, and when he didn't, added a very quiet, "Please?"

Helsknight sighed again. His hand moved to comb through Tanguish's hair with sword-calloused fingers. The touch was warm and gentle, and heavy with weariness.

"I worry about the next bad day," Helsknight said. "It will come again."

"Worry about it when it gets here."

"If I'm not ready and it knocks me off my feet again, what then?"

"Life isn't a siege, knight," Tanguish reminded him. "You don't survive it behind walls and moats."

"But I wouldn't wound anyone else."

"You didn't wound me. You didn't wound anyone." Tanguish tilted his head slightly. "You maybe wounded your own pride?"

The crease between Helsknight's eyes turned into a frown, with wrinkled nose and curled lip, baring half a flash of white teeth.

"It shouldn't hurt your pride to have bad days," Tanguish purred. "It only means you're human like the rest of us."

"I wish I wasn't, sometimes."

"Is it so terrible that I'm human?"

"No."

"And Martyn and EB?"

"Tanguish."

"Join us on the ground," Tanguish told him light-heartedly. "That pedestal looks uncomfortable."

Helsknight passed his hand through Tanguish's hair again, teasing its way through a tangle. Together, they lay on the couch and matched their breathing. The house was quiet and still, and Tanguish was warm and safe. He felt himself teetering again, eyes drooping. A feeling like tilting, and edge to fall over, a world of comfortable dreams opening up over the side. He knew if he opened his eyes again, the feeling would vanish, as would the strange colors and shapes of half-dreams. Ghosts and mists that slipped from remembered thought the moment they were no longer felt, so soft and surreal, they might not exist at all. In the morning, he might not even remember how they felt, only that they passed him over, a vague impression of memory.

"I will try," Helsknight said.

And they slept.

[puppyeared]

RETURN TO MONKE (PUBERTY EDITION)

MK’s monkey form doesn’t feel right to me so i wanted to break up his transformation into stages. Maybe as he learns to accept that side of himself it becomes part of him, instead of changing between human and monkey randomly (which is probably painful). Love yourself, NOW!!!

@zymstarz im tagging you for FULL MONKE

[bumblingbabooshka]

Re: Tuvok being Janeway's true biggest enabler, I really like how it's implied that Janeway absolutely returns the favor

Like, Tuvok has the nerve to basically tap Chakotay on the shoulder and go "Um? I hear you're going with B'Elanna's plan? That's not how it works. I, Tuvok, just made a suggestion and you're not following it which is really confusing to me. If JANEWAY were here-" and I do love him for it and I DON'T think he's lying. I think Janeway really does have a long history of listening to Tuvok over others, perhaps without even realizing it. Janeway & Tuvok together sound like hell in space, a literal nightmare, and I adore them for it. Janeway unintentionally strokes Tuvok's ego by letting him do whatever he thinks is best in any situation while Tuvok unintentionally feeds Janeway's self-image of what a glorious captain should be and I'm not saying Tuvok isn't smart or Janeway isn't a great captain [they objectively are these things] - I just really love this ouroboros they've got going on. They bring out the best in each other, they're so selfless, they'd sacrifice their life for the other, and also they're a little bit full of themselves in part because the other keeps feeding them, and I think that's beautiful✨

Tuvok Voice: Sorry. This is...really difficult for me...I'm just not used to not being favored by the captain. Chakotay: ................................................................

[black-and-yellow]

Ingenue

Reel it in.

(NB even though this reads right to left, the pages are ordered so that they will be in order when scrolled through on full screen)

[dxxtruction]

"Louis acting like a pimp to Armand" And what is a pimp exactly? Quickly. And, oh so sexual trauma survivors can't engage in kink now without it being all about that? Pet names? They can't be submissive anymore? Consensually? Sexually healthy? Be serious. I'd hardly say there's much power difference between them during all this anyway, except that Louis is freer than Armand and it's been putting a strain on their relationship. Louis wants more from Armand, and less of this 'being his past' for them both, and so helping Armand with this could fix that. It's healthy to want to help your partners get out of a rough patch?

I mean, the whole exchange was very clearly set up as a "I want to help you" after such a great moment of vulnerability Louis feels just how much Armand is desperate for it. Louis called Armand so they could work out a plan together.

And the bit with the umbrella was Louis' way of asking 'are you willing to listen to me?' and Armand said yes by unfolding it. Louis goes on and explains, Armand is allowed to argue against it, but Louis makes his point. And then he gives Armand a way to make his own choice in it too. Armand's already decided 'I want you, more than anything else in the world', but Louis still asks after if he's sure of his choice, and with a name, Arun, that is the one of his fullest agency, running the point home. Honoring the situation Armand calls Louis Maitre - as a way of being like 'I'll do as you've said then'. To make this work he's going to have to give Louis some of the control, yes. But it's the first time such a role is ever established, and it was his choice to do it. So so what if they do it in a very suggestive way? They can't like doing that? I think it's them having fun.

I struggle to find how Louis is being overly domineering here when really he's giving and offering Armand the most agency he's ever had. Same with finding it manipulative. The manipulation was more earlier in the episode I think, when he was stringing him along, giving mixed signals. He's no longer toying with him like that. Louis might be pushing Armand, leading him on to make a decision, but he doesn't mean bad by it.

But back to this pimp thing. I find it frankly offensive that this is where people are going with this. I get it, but to run with it being the case is, on many levels, wrong.

Louis told us episode 1 this was the only sustainable line of work to support his family and keep their standing, at the time. It was never his choice to be doing this either but his blackness allowed no other options. He did what he did so his family could stay in that house and maintain all their same comforts. It gave him privileges most black men didn't have at the time that he wanted to maintain and even have more of. Anyway, it doesn't and had never defined him the way 'being good at running things' had. And in that case he just likes having that kind of control where he can get it, which makes sense.

The world is what placed that kind of role onto him of what he was allowed to be able to run, not himself. And on that he actually treated the sex workers he employed well and respected them enough to give them more opportunity.** He recognizes they don't have much in the way of options either.

Louis employed sex workers, yes, but he didn't subject them to abuse, (like how Armand was)*. He didn't oversee things in a way that would go against their consent (see; episode 1 again)**. Sometimes a job is just a job. And Sex work is work.

Armand's particular past with sexual abuses may strike a particular cord with Louis, given all that, but the very last thing either is thinking is that Louis' pimping Armand out here. This is merely their decision as companions, and had nothing to do with adding another line in a laundry list of selling Armands body out to people at the command of someone else. Armand rescinds some of his control to Louis' wishes, because he wants him, and he trusts him, that's all.

If you aren't allowing Armand that choice, and are doubtful it's fully his, you're putting him right back in the box of being defined by his abuses. Putting him back into that space where he isn't given any agency over what he does. (Which is exactly opposite of what the intent of this scene is for)*.

*: (edit) added for clarity.

**: (strike through) numerous people are saying I'm misremembering these points so disregard it. (Thought he was siding with Bricks, it was the other way around). (Technically one aspect of those opportunities were for getting around the law). I don't have a perfect memory, it happens. Let's not get mad about it. Doesn't change much of the point which is that Louis, now, Louis then, was always considering more about the running things and for stated purposes. So I guess I'd say he may only have respected the SWers enough sometimes for what allowed him to do that, and there are moments he certainly expressed remorse over the fact, but he has a great deal higher respect for Armand that is genuine. It's incomparable. Please read my added notes in the tags, it should address most other concerns.

[sysig]

Twin skeletons need twin carriers (Patreon)

[graedari]

woagh- blast from the past. First sketches of Corvo when I was trying to figure this dude out