#aro spectrum identity erasure

[princsstwilightsparkl]

saying "if aroace people can date, then can lesbians date men?" is absolutely aphobic narrative btw!

[gdsplicer]

I'm seeing a influx of people using the wording "aroace spectrum" as opposed to aspec, or using aroace as if it covers all aros and aces, like...

Do I really have to explain why that's not as inclusive a move as you'd think it is?

If someone addressed me, a aro, as "under the aroace spectrum", I would be questioning their allyship even if they themselves are aspec because no where in that's sentence did I say I'm also ace.

Using that wording instead of aspec is as much dismissive and hurtful to non-ace aros as it does when people shove our aromanticism under asexuality without thinking on why it's not helpful or disrespectful.

I feel so strongly on demanding that aroness and aceness is seen as separate, on demanding proper recognition and respect for aroallos and non-SAM aros, on demanding that my aroness is seen as enough on its own because calling me ace or aroace is erasure on my identity; It pushes the wrong narrative and box onto my experiences. It promotes misunderstandings on not just aromanticism but also asexuality. It treats my label something not worthy of taking up space in the aro community, in the aspec community, in the queer community.

Stop using 'aroace' or as the umbrella word to cover the aspec community.

[aro-bird]

#not entirely sure what this post is ab so sorry if im misunderstanding#but as an oriented aroace i wanna say some thoughts ab shit i see in fandom spaces a lot#particularly toh#whenever there is an aroace character specifically not interested in relationships everyone rushes to say 'oh well some aroace ppl!!!'#because they view oriented aroaces and other aspecs who enjoy relationships as 'less aro'#and when we try to say smth we get shut down and told we're erasing our own experiences#on the opposite hand we never recieve any support when we actually need it#like we're ignored until its time for us to be used in an argument against relationship averse aroace rep#sorry for the ramble but like#its driving me insane

Tags by @/aroacesigma

Yes, this post is specifically about that!

These people don't care about aros until our identities could be used as a weapon against other people. These people don't really care about the real aros that they're using the identity of and only use them as an excuse to justify their bigotry.

It's downright insidious and even harmful to partnering and romantic aros and it's disgusting.

Real-life aros are NOT just identities you can use to slap on your aro erasure just so you could make excuses. They are real people with real experiences, not just non-existent hypotheticals you could use to win some dumb internet fandom argument.

Alloaces, partnering aros, and other romance-favorable aros should never be used as an excuse to erase a character's aromanticism. Those are real identities of real people, not a gotcha card when someone calls you out on blatant aro erasure.

You aren't being progressive when you're trying to justify what you're doing when you take the little representation that aromantic people have and change it to something closer to what you deem acceptable for the sake of shipping.

You aren't being progressive when you're attacking aspecs for complaining about blatant arophobia within places where they should feel the safest especially if they find themselves within those aro characters.

You're just being a dick.

[sillysecretwriting]

Being somewhere on both aro and ace spectrums and having a partner is such an odd type of erasure. Like up until accidentally starting to date my current partner, I'd always just say "I don't really date" if people asked about my romantic life and just left it there. I knew that I was so rarely romantically attracted to people, it wasn't never, but the number of people I've been romantically attracted to in my entire life is maybe three? My partner is one of the three, so I ended up having this cute person that I'm romantically attracted to and now share large portions of my life with, but my identity hasn't changed. Our relationship is the rarity, not the normal for me, but now when people ask, and I tell them I have a partner, that larger portion of me that doesn't always understand why other people are so set on having a partner or why there's so much stigma around being single, is just erased in that person's eyes.

I was happy alone and didn't feel like anything was missing. I'm also happy with my partner. But I just hate that the aro (and ace) spectrum parts of my identity become invisible as soon as I mention my partner.

[lying-on-floors]

Just because a character is aro/ace does not mean they can't form close bonds, or have romantic partners, or have sex.

Aro/ace is an identification, but it's also a spectrum.

Aromantic is an identity and spectrum. Some aromantic people feel no romance and have no desire for the intimacy that comes with romantic relationships. Other aromantic people may feel the desire for the intimacy that romance brings, but have never felt romantic feelings, or they have, but they can't distinguish between platonic feelings and romantic feelings. Some aromantic people may only feel romance once they've formed a close bond with another person. Some aromantic people, like myself, have not really felt romance but has a desire to and hopes that, one day, they can find someone, who is patient and loving and willing, to help them figure it out. And some aromantic people fluctuate, from feeling romance to not feeling it, at all.

Asexuality is an identity and spectrum. Some asexual people are touch averse and have no desire for sexual activites, alone or with others. Other asexual people may feel the desire for sexual activities but have no attraction to another person. Some asexual people are attracted to someone but just don't care for sex. Some asexual people do feel attraction and is okay with having sex with another person but they have no desire to be touched by their partner. Some asexual people may fluctuate, from feeling attraction to not feeling any. And some asexual people only feel attraction once they've formed a close bond with that person.

There are so many more identities within the aro/ace spectrum but these are just a few, and just because someone is aromantic, does not mean they're asexual and vice versa. Sometimes, someone is both aromantic and asexual but that does not invalidate them or their experiences.

So, you can headcanon whatever you like about a canonically aro/ace character, but PLEASE do not erase their aro/ace identity all together.

I would like to clarify that this post is not specifically about zolu, and I have no problem with people going against popular headcanons, it just got me thinking about aro/ace erasuer, which as an aro/ace person, truly effects me and I just, hate to see it. I would also like to add, I understand Luffy isn't canonically aro/ace, it's a popular headcanon, it just reminded me of my feelings on aro/ace erasure. If you look at my profile, this post has been in my head for a little while. Sorry for any misconceptions. /Gen

[ivydbomb]

Hi Hazbin Hotel fandom 👋 it would be really cool of you all to stop shipping Alastor with every single other character possible. I’ve been getting a lot of hate for trying to explain this in the comments of a billion radioapple ship art posts and i’m sorta close to losing my mind.

He is canonically aroace. Yes aroace people can be in relationships. Absolutely they can. They can be in sexual AND romantic relationships. 100%. But PLEASE for the love of all that is holy and unholy- if you are not on the aspec, arospec, or aroaspec spectrums- do not publicly post content where he’s making out with Lucifer. Or Angel dust. Or- well- you get the point.

We get ONE character. ONE that is CANONICALLY AROACE. And I am getting absolutely torn to shreds every time I try to hold my little poor orphan boy hands out asking for little scraps of aroace representation. “Please sir, can I have some aroace?” I’m practically Oliver Twist at this point.

People are completely erasing his sexual and romantic identity and it’s really disheartening for me and I’m sure for a lot of other aroace people. This has been stated before and has been stated many times, but, IF YOU WOULD NOT SHIP A CANON GAY CHARACTER WITH THE OPPOSITE GENDER YOU SHOULDN’T SHIP A CANON AROACE CHARACTER WITHOUT PROPERLY PORTRAYING THEIR ARO OR ACE IDENTITY AS WELL.

It’s not even about the ship art it’s about the complete erasure of his aroaceness. Could people pretty please stop yelling at me for pointing that out? No I am not a hater. No Vivzipop did not say you can ship Alastor with whoever you want (as somebody told me, but has yet to show proof she said this specifically). No it is not ok to do this. I am BEGGING. You guys have an entire massive cast of characters who are of age and have interesting dynamics to ship. Leave Alastor alone unless you include his identity and an explanation as to why you think the portrayal benefits the aroace community.

It’s really simple.

[burningvampyre]

nahh let the nerd birds fuck

i am assuming this is about virwood and listen, i appreciate the enthusiasm and after the lore that just happened i can see the potential

however

both connor and puffin have stated that their characters are aro-ace-spectrum and whilst yes, aroace people can have romantic and sexual relationships that doesn't mean all of them do so personally at least i am going to wait until we see some more of them both and maybe have more of their aro-ace identity shown even in canon, before i'll personally write something nsfw for these characters

ace and aro erasure is still prevalant in fandoms, i've seen it with the tma fandom, i've seen it from afar in the hazbin fandom, and many others, and far be it from me to contribute to that even by accident. so i'll wait until either connor and puffin give specific labels to their characters' identities or until there has been more lore to guess from how these characters might stand to topics of romance or sex

this is by no means a call out or anything, i've just had a lot of asks in my inbox about virwood so i figured i'd set up that boundary of sorts and say how i stand on this until we have more canon to go off of

[angieblogging]

shipping aroaces + yelena belova 🏹 ♠️

!! reminder !! this is in no way to start drama, hate or anything, this is just me trying to explain, so read it, then give feedback, but be respectful or as respectful as you can be in the moment, i will be blocking trolls or people who claim aspec to be fake or those who cuss me out or are just plainly rude.

so i see this a lot… “but aros can date so i can ship this character!!!!”

and that is true, in some cases.

the thing i feel like people miss the most is:

being aromantic is a label, it mean no romantic attraction. but if a person is arospec, aka on the aromantic spectrum they can experience it (rarely / under certain circumstances etc.)

if you are aromantic, that doesn’t mean you can’t date, you obviously can, but not all aros chose to do so and both are just as valid.

aromantic as a term can be used as an umbrella term, a demiromantic can call themselves aro.

so while aros, just like all people can date and can choose to not date that doesn’t mean you get to throw that excuse around, same thing goes for QPRs but i will talk about that some other time.

i see allos throw around this excuse with Yelena Belova mainly, she is an aroace character, she has never shown interest in dating and has shown repulsion to sex. SO HOW COME YALL WRITE HER AND SHE SUDDENLY LIKES BOTH??? because well yk “aros can date” “aces can have sex”…

while both are true it literally takes away from her identity??? she is openly repulsed by sex and uninterested in romance AND THAT IS OKAY.

she doesn’t need to date, she doesn’t need a qpr either.

the only reason she is put in romantic/sexual situations is because people thirst over Florence (she is beautiful), you can write fics about her other many roles & leave the only aroace character she has played ALONE.

she is only put in QPRs by allos, because they want her to be a lesbian (even though she clearly states she is not a lesbian in the comics), so they say it’s a qpr and they get their way. she isn’t attracted to women. if the mcu will make her anything it is straight, as SHE IS NOT ATTRACTED TO WOMEN (hopefully aroace tho)…

and to aroaces who purposely disregard her preferences which are clear, idk what to say, it’s a shame that yall are so deep into amatonormativity.

++ just to add to all this “the comics aren’t the mcu”, imagine if there was an openly lesbian character and everyone just ignored it, they’re being shipped with a man, smut of them and men is created, so then the lesbian community tried to educate them, they try to explain that it is erasure and everyone just uses that argument. feels shit doesn’t it???

[agentofanarchy110]

A little worried if I’m doing representation wrong

I made a post the other day giving my frustrations about people who are supposed to be my own community accusing me of erasure for shipping an ace (POTENTIALLY aroace) character. And I’m so worried I didn’t give off the right impression cause a comment or two seemed unhappy with me. I don’t want to upset anyone or antagonise the all-the-way-averse side of the spectrum, but I MYSELF am aroace. I want to use this character to project my own identity. Being marginalised and stigmatised in your own community is kind of awful. Like, not to be bitchy, but IM SO SORRY for being VERY, VERY OCCASIONALLY CAPABLE of romantic attraction. It doesn’t make me any less aro. And it really hurts when people tell me I’m lying or using MY OWN IDENTITY as an “excuse for erasure”. I don’t write fics with aroace characters yet, although I will be soon, but it just feels so so wrong to be hunted down with the proverbial pitchfork by people who are supposed to be by my side. and people saying “oh you don’t get it cause you’re not all the way averse” I’m sex repulsed and I don’t mind smut fics? Provided, of course, that the asexuality of a character is ACKNOWLEDGED and ADDRESSED. I’m so tired of people saying an asexual who engages in activities of that nature is invalid or erasure. Please just hear what I’m saying 😭

[strawberryradiodemon]

Even if you do add asexual, ace or aromantic to the search there's gonna be those "no fictional thing should ever have to present anything accurately or respectfully ever" people like "as an asexual you have my permission to do whatever you want with alastor's asexuality!" like... who tf asked them? they have an agenda they're trying to push, they do not speak for the ace community as a whole 🙄

Yeahh, even with the aro and / or ace tags we're not entirely safe unfortunately.

Such things do annoy me, I'm not gonna lie. I can understand that romance positive aros, sex positive aces or those who still have sex / are in relationships/ etc use the "aro/ace people can still date / have sex" or remind people that it's a spectrum and some still feel these type of attraction because yes, that's true.

But what annoys me is that saying that to people annoyed about the constant sexualisation/ shipping of Alastor is basically siding with the non aroace spectrum people using that "aroace people can still feel that/ do these things!" who saw that and ran with it purely to be able to continue with what they want to do.

Yes, asexuality and aromanticism are spectrums. Yes, some feel the attraction. Yes, some don't but still engage in these activities. And if you're on the aroace spectrum and it's your case obviously I'm not going to shame you for putting alastor in such scenarii because you're using a character like you to relate, and still acknowledging his aroace identity. The problem is that most people putting him in these situations totally disregard his aroaceness. And when as an aroace (spectrum) person, you say "people can still ship him, I do! Aroace people can feel these things or do them!"... You're basically enabling their erasure of his identity. Deep down you're right, but non aroace people don't care about that, and don't do these things the same way you do.

That's why, to non aroace people shipping alastor, I will remind them that he's aroace. And clearly not on the part of the spectrum where he still feels those things, nor is he interested in pursuing them.

And to the people on the aroace spectrum, I will just say, please, don't mistaken their words for a reel need to showcase the variety of our identity, because most of the time that's not what they want. You don't forget his aroaceness in the way your ship him, they do. Ship him all you want, because I know your heart is in the right place. But please don't defend the others.

As a loveless aroace, it pains me to see him constantly shipped and sexualised by everyone (even though that's clearly not what he'd want), and these things being defended.

I thought I had found a character I could relate to, that I could search stuff about him peacefully without seeing all kind of romantic and sexual stuff. I've been proven wrong, and it hurts. And the excuse they use hurt even more, because it feels like we're only palatable or interesting if we can still feel these attractions sometimes or engage in those things. As if alastor being a loveless aroace is a disappointment, that they *need* to ship him to be satisfied, for him to be enough.

Sorry for the rant, I definitely repeated myself, but I wanted to take the opportunity this ask gave me to give a bit of my opinion on this.

Tldr: I have no problem with aroace spectrum shipping him because I know they keep his aroaceness in mind. I have, however, a problem with non aroace spectrum people doing that because they erase his aroace identity completely AND use the diversity of it as an excuse to continue doing so. And it pains me to see fellow aroace people defending that, because I feel like they don't realise how those people ship him.

[slothyykittee]

As an aro (and potentially ace) person, and an Internet veteran since Rage comics, "Forever alone" captions and Nyan cat were still new and funny, I'm putting my take on this.

You cannot stop the Internet from doing whatever it wants to fictional characters. Period. The Hazbin Hotel fandom is no exception.

Back then, 4chan made this thing called "The Rules of the Internet" if I remember correctly. Its definitely a joke, since its way too long. However, there's some truth to it, such as the Rule 34 of that chart. It says

"If it exists, there's porn of it. No exceptions."

Everything, from living things to non-living, there will be sexual content of it in the Internet.

So it's absurd to try to control an entire fandom to adhere to things, even the creators themselves can't and all they can do is tell their fandoms to behave.

It's not surprising for me when I see fans ship/make smut of an aroace person. I have already seen queer identities of fictional characters being undermined by fandoms all the time, so at this point this is just fandom doing what fandom does.

Nevertheless, giving the ability to erase fictional queer identities to fans is stupid if you think about it. If fandom has such ability, then every single fictional queer identity since the dawn of humanity has been erased, as we know there are queerphobic fans.

In my opinion, I will give this ability to the creators of the Media. Like I said, you can't control fans, all we can to do is tell them what they're doing is wrong, and hope some fans will listen. Creators, however, can actually change the character's identity. They're the ones who created these characters after all.

If Alastor's aroace identity ended up being changed by Vivzie herself, this is where its applicable to say that AroAce/Queer erasure is happening.

Here's a note, though: Aroace is a spectrum, please don't assume that every person on the aroace spectrum is romance/sex repulsed. Sure, Alastor is, but doesn't mean other aroace characters are. This is a reminder to allos.

So in conclusion: You can't stop fandoms from doing their thing, even if you are the creator. Fortunately, though, people tend to only believe attributes of a character if the creator is the one giving such attributes. So you can rest assured that the character identity will (or may) stay.

[aroacesafeplaceforall]

Hello! This is regarding shipping Alastor with people.

So, I’ve had some conflicting feelings

Because I do ship him with one character, but I don’t ship him in a very sexual or romantic way, just a little more than platonic. I don’t want to erase his aroace rep, as an aro myself I’m glad there is rep out there. But I do like this one sort of more than platonic ship, but now I feel very bad for it, and I don’t at all want to erase anything that is established about his character

What are your opinions on my shipping? (Ps, it’s not Charlie, vaggie, or Angel dust)

Platonic is fine! non-erasure of aroace traits is fine! its the people who say shit like "its a spectrum" and then don't address the fucking spectrum... thats the issue.

As long as you still address his canon identity and "ship him" (hoestly sounds like your shipping a qpr not a rom/sexual relationship) in a way that doesnt erase his canon identity its fine!

but honestly anon, you yourself being aro allows for slightly more leeway then allos saying the same shit as you actually understand shit.

[kits-ghosts-corner]

SCREAMS OK I've wanted to put my thoughts on this shit out for yonks but allos can be weird - the difference now is that I!! Don't!! Care!!

(As a starting point, this post is not aimed at any aces, aros, and aroaces. I'm staring allos directly in the eyes as I write all this).

You all get way too comfortable erasing alloaro, alloace, and aroace identities when it comes to fandom.

If a character is presented as sex-repulsed and/or romance-repulsed, then it's fucking weird for you to not write them as such. It's erasure, plain and simple. If a character is explicitly gay, you'd be up in arms if anybody wrote them as straight, but the second an aro+/ace person says "hey, this isn't right" to how you represent a character's aromanticism or asexuality, then the immediate response is "WELL IT'S FANDOM AND FICTION AND I CAN DO WHAT I LIKE!!!". Yeah, it is fandom and fiction. Yeah, you can write what you like. But at that point, even if it wasn't erasure, it's just shitty character work and eradicating any nuance and major points of a character.

"But some asexuals have sex and some aromantics get into romantic relationships-" YEAH. I KNOW. I KNOW THAT. BUT SOME AREN'T, AND EXPLICITLY SO IN THE MEDIA THEY'RE IN. That's why you add some fucking nuance and maybe think for 3 seconds before you write Alastor from Hazbin Hotel getting gangbanged by 40 twinks or whatever the fuck. Hell, I LIKE reading stories where aces and aros can engage in sex and romance respectively - I even write that myself! But half the time, allos don't get it right at all, or will ignore the aspects that come with being on the aro+/ace spectrums, or what terminologies can actually invoke. You guys will just slap on "sex-favourable" or "romance-favourable" (etc.) to get around it.

Obviously, this conversation itself comes with nuances and other aspects, and this is just a basic rant post because it's a subject that's been getting on my nerves lately, but FUCK can you guys have like A Single Thought before making every canonically sex-repulsed character a skinny twink waiting to be dicked down by the nearest person to them? Aces, aros, and aroaces don't have enough representation as is, we don't need extra erasure in our fandom spaces on top of it.

[cepheusgalaxy]

Ok, fandom stuff below. Hazbin Hotel, Alastor, wadda wadda, skip if you don't wanna see it

Listen. I've seen many people complain about how the fandom is shipping Alastor with other characters, and while we were already expecting it (it's what fandom does), this side of the conversation os extremely frustrated, because it overlooks his whole aroace identity

On the other side, aspec people are also mad because of the former group. Asexuality and aromanticism are a spectrum, and aspecs can and do date.

I particularly stand with the first group, although I do understand where the second is coming from.

Cupioaro ace talking here: The closest interpretation of canon is that Alastor is ace, not very touchy, and not interested in romance at all. Another common one is that he is a sex and romance repulsed aroace. But that doesn't mean much in the fandom. That's why headcanons exist. That's why fanfic exists.

And look. One of the interpretations is that he is the repulsed end of the spectrum. But others are that he is not that repulsed at all. That's not wrong. You can ship him.

What you can't do, and I'll die mad at this hill, is completely ignore or conveninently let aside his identity. That's erasure.

Aro people date differently. Ace people date differently. Aroace people love differently. Don't you forget that. Aspec people experience atraction differently, when we do. Don't you forget that. Alastor isn't allo

Do your homework. Then ship him or whatever

[curio-queries]

...and here we go with the anons. I'm not posting any of you, but I am going to say this one more time. Please tell me where in my previous posts I was actually trying to convince anyone what any of the member's sexualties may be.

I'll paste the relevant bit but my specific point is that when you engage in shipping discourse along the lines of '____ member doing ____ action can ONLY be because their attraction is ____', that's when erasure happens. No matter what behavior and sexuality you're discussing.

Specifically I'd like to talk but ace-aro erasure. Now, before any of you jump on me, I AM NOT SAYING THAT I THINK ANY OF THE MEMBERS ARE ASPEC. I just want to remind you that when you make sweeping statements like 'you only have to look at them to know', you are implicitly stating that anyone who chooses to partake in similar actions could ONLY be doin so because of an attraction.

And thus lies the erasure of all aspecs. Statements like these prescribe what actions we are allowed to take or not take. I realize all identities exist on a spectrum but the ace-aro spectrums are so vast, there can be very little in common between two individuals that utilize these labels. I know I personally will affinities for differing sub-lables nearly day-to-day. So umbrella statements in general set me on edge but any that draw conclusions about someone's sexuality based solely on an outside perspective of their actions? Nope, I can't vibe with that.

This conversation is not limited to the BTS fandom and frankly applies to the entirety of society but alas, it's all too typical in ace-aro spaces.

I also find it interesting that all of you include links to Twitter posts as well. I'd invite you to stand on the strength of your own arguments. Unless you're pointing to an expert in the fields of sexual behaviors and identities or direct quotes from the members themselves, there is absolutely no reason to point to another individual's opinions. I'm not on Twitter for a reason and I'm definitely not going to go look up other ppls opinions if you clearly didn't read what the post you're responding to is stating.

[mintytealeaves]

Sending an ask instead of replying in the tags again:

Oh ffs that's insufferable, ppl are like "aro + ace identities are a spectrum. Which means I can take that isolated concept and apply it to any character even if they've made their own placement clear. As long as they don't say "I'm a sex and romance repulsed aromantic asexual" in those exact worlds or some shit like that, it must be ambiguous!!!1"

”It’s all up to interpretation!”

No it’s not! you have to learn to take SIGNALS from the characters personality and how they interact with other people before you just start to sexualize them/ship them!

Just because Alastor is “perfect tumblr sexy man material” doesn’t mean you get to IMMEDIATELY ignore his obvious body language when reacting to things pertaining to romance and sex

all he cares about is killing. That’s it! Killing and power, he has NO time for romance or sex, no WANT for romance or sex, and ZERO need for romance or sex. it’s not up to interpretation

they just want to ignore that because he’s hot to them.

Using another character as an example: (classic) Sans. his sexual orientation and romantic orientation IS up to interpretation because there’s no canon information.

I personally see him as aroace. That is a SUPER unpopular opinion on him but I’m not mad about people shipping him because he doesn’t give obvious warnings

sorry to just RANT all of the sudden but the sexualization/erasure of Aroace characters always pisses me off