#anti stephcass

[deansxharley]

steph dating cass would be a great move for a million reasons but mostly because i think it's really funny to consider bruce wayne jumping for joy after tim finally breaks up with steph only for her to show back up as cass's girlfriend a few months later. she's never letting that man breathe and i love that for her <3

[intraterrestriall]

my late 90s early 2000s freaks

[punkeropercyjackson]

I want legit Batfam rep.None of that 'Core Four Batboys ft.Girlboss Babs™️' nonesense,i want:

Afrolatino/third gen dominican inmigrant on both parents' side Jason who went to Ethiopia to find his 'real mom' because he discovered he had ethiopian ancestry and that black diaspora trauma took over even with all the connections to his dominicano roots his guardians made sure to give him

5th Robin Duke who gets officially adopted by Bruce at 11 due to Elaine and Doug's Jokerization happening way earlier and is autistic as the cause of his troubled kid status and fem/punk presenting just naturally and runs away from home post a Year One run and ends up getting taken in by The Outlaws as their Robin,most of all Jason(who is also autistic)'s and Jason's Duke's Robin right back

(And a complete overhaul of Rhato 2011 and Rebirth Rhato except Artemis as a member since everything about it except her was layer after layer of bigotry and just poor writing choices)

Blasian/jamaicain-korean Stephanie with a silk press in her early Spoiler days but starting to wear her hair natural as Robin which escalates into butterfly locs and purple hair dye and who's fat because fat black girls deserve to be confident and pastel and fun and smart and punk without masculinization and seen as beautiful without her love interests having to 'learn to love her beyond skin deep' first and also has an addiction to bubble waffles specifically

Butch comphet lesbian Cass with a deeply complicated relathionship to femininity and girlhood she can't even begin to put into words a good deal after she learns how to talk but has a gender journey of learning she dosen't need men to be a woman nor white western femininity or white western masculininty to be a valid lesbian.Also,her employing her tradgoth subculture with her chinese roots too and befriending other easian/woc tradgoths

Transfem4transfem Stephcass consisting of Cass and Stephanie falling in love with eachother's girlhood as much as they do eachother as people and Stephanie as an early egg crack that diy's her own estrogen and gender affirming clothes guiding Cass in transfeminism as both best friendship and a flirting/seduction tactic.Them growing to start a big biofamily too as Cass didn't want bottom surgery

Cherokee on Janet's side Tim and not malicious but white ass ignorant dad Jack that didn't teach him his culture so Tim takes it into his own hands and ends up a long haired skapunk urban eco-activist with a huge collection of shirts with messages/memes that make white people uncomfortable and doning the mantle 'Hawk' as an adult and visiting his mom's reservation in her hometown during Red Robin 2009

Sindhi romani Dick who's Discowing fit takes both Disco and Bollywood influences and talks with his hands all the time and carries around homemade puffed rice candies out of habit of feeding them to his siblings as they grew up and tweaking whenever somebody calls them rice krispie treats and was gifted a rroma flag by Bruce as a 'welcome to the family gift' and jewish/romani solidarity

Kory as an official Batfam member through marriage to Dick and bonding with The Batkids,including Robin!Jason as a massive Starfire fanboy(platonically + not of Wonder Woman.Jason's black,he wouldn't view a white woman as the ultimate form of 'women i look up to'),and Mar'i and Jake as extended Batfam members too

Damian not actually being unknown to Bruce,just a surprisingly by Batfam standards well-kept secret as Bruce and Talia had him unambigiously consensually and it adding juicy angst to their relathionship as it broke Bruce's heart he could not only never see Damian but that Damian couldn't even know he existed for his own childhood safety

Talia as a stepmom who's sort not really dating Batdad but nonetheless treated Jason as her own son in his Robin days and extends it to Robin!Stephanie as an older woc and earns her the title of 'Bird Mom' by the Dead Robins Club.In the meantime,she also took over Lexcorp to turn it into an international solarpunk organization and renamed it 'Taliacorp'

Damian's team aka the All New Teen Titans consisting of an afrolatino Jon,a 6th Robin Maps,Maya,Surren,Colin,Nell,Kathy,Irey,Bobby,Nika,Keli,a transfem Laurel and Tai and mentored by Jason,Adult!Signal!Duke,an even older adult Batwoman!Stephanie and Wonder!Cassie(and even more queer heroes of color!!!)ft.T4T autistic4autistic Damimaps

Black biracial natural redhead Babs who's found siblings with Dick from the get-go and keeps trying to deny her feelings for Dinah not out of internalized lesbophobia but out of emotional constipation and refusal to let her win after all the shameless deliberately embarrasingly flirting she put her through

Bear Jason,midsized Duke and Tim,dad bod Dick,scrawny flatchested narrow-hipped Babs,stocky Damian,boft(buff but soft)Cass

Batgyal Tam given the mantle by Luke post-waking up from her comma and joining the Rhato lineup as an Honorary Outlaw

I just love the Batfam so much,okay?But DC clearly dosen't so they're mine now

[instant-sandwich]

Imo, (not that anyone cares)

"Batcest" isn't gross because they're "related"...they're not...they're all adopted.. I think people (including me) find it gross Because people find it resembles child grooming relationships just a little too closely...

In ships following cannon timeline, the majority of them became robin at a young age while the other Robins were way older.

Jason became Robin after Dick... I'd find it understandable if someone wants to head cannon something like young Jason having a crush on Dick but having them date when they're older is weird because that would mean Dick is okay with dating someone he helped in raising and wanted to adopt himself. It also feels too close to grooming...

Same with Jason/Tim.

However, I find relationships where both the characters haven't known each other since one was a child and the other an adult or older teen isn't "batcest". It's even included in the comics

Steph dating anyone isn't weird because she didn't grow up practically being raised by any of them. She dated Tim in cannon...I could argue the same with Duke...(All depending ofc)

Steph dating Damian would be "batcest" tho

Steph knows Damian as a little kid and it would still feel too close to grooming.

If you write a fic based off of a completely different timeline I think it could work out in the sense that it wouldn't feel as gross as fics following cannon but character relationships wouldn't be the same at all. The entire point of them being close to each other and family IS the fact that they've basically raised each other/been raised together.

Ngl, whenever I come across someone defending "batcest" because they're not related I feel like that person doesn't have siblings (blood related or not)

A sibling isn't a sibling because they're related to you.

[bats8batarangs]

Batcest warning!! Look away if uncomfy

One of my favourite convoluted love triangle headcanons is Tim likes Jay who likes Dick who has had an unrequited crush on Bruce for years who just thinks of his boys as...his boys. Dami also has a crush on Dick AND Tim but will never admit it.

I like to think Tim confessed to Jay and Jay was like "fuck off" but started looking at him differently. Perhaps they meet up for a makeout session every now and then but Jay's feelings are with Dick who he refuses to confess to.

"I will bury this feeling under multiple layers of snark and disdain until I die-for reals this time."

Dick knew lil Jay had a crush on him but didn't think post-lazarus pit Jay still held the same feelings so just treats him as a brother. He's still pining for his father/mentor after all. Dick was so obvious with his feelings as a kid but Bruce never picked up on it and eventually Dick gave up, burying his feelings in redheads and work. Part of his leaving Bruce so dramatically was realising his crush would never come to fruition.

Damian's crush on Dick developed after Bruce's death and Dick took such good care of him. He slipped it into conversation a few times but Dick didn't take it seriously, thinking he was just confusing familial love with romantic love. His crush on Tim on the other hand is something he refuses to admit but most of his bro's have caught onto it. Even Tim knows but refuses to acknowledge it, weirded out by it enough. He's grateful when Jon comes into the picture and takes Dami's attention away from him.

Now Bruce may be the greatest detective but he is shit when it comes to romance and even more so when it involves his boys. Selina knows pretty much all of it but doesn't want to out the boys before they're ready-and besides who wanted to break the news to such a love-adverse, awkward man like Bruce?

I didn't mention Duke in the intro but that's because he's not part of the triangle (hexagon?) and altho he knows a lot of who is crushing on who there is absolutely no form of torture that could get him to talk about it.

Steph and Cass are the only ones who have it together because they've been dating for a while and are pretty open about it. Even Bruce knows and acknowledges them. He will protect his girls if anyone says anything homophobic to them and u can quote me on that.

[iforgotmyfandom]

Okay. Here’s how it works: Batcest is absolutely horrible.

Stephcass is not batcest, because Steph is not adopted by Bruce, and I like it that way.

If someone comes onto my page with Thorki, I will burn them at the stake.

[drbatsponge]

Sighs, some cute StephCass art but they tag it “BatCest”. 😑

Steph and Cass aren't siblings bro, so I don't even know why you're trying to bring them into this shit.

[papaiyatree]

am i. am i the only one who doesn't want stephcass to be canon rn? like, i LOVEEE stephcass but. but. if they just decided to make them canon rn when they're barely even properly establishing their characters... most especially steph! at least cass has the outsiders thing! but steph? there's been nothing that really solidifies her all too much. i just think they should do both characters properly before they decide to let em get together, bc who knows! if they get canonized during a time where they are barely explored, they might make the fact that they r girlfriends their entire personality. like, pls just fix these characters b4 u do smth as big as letting them date

[mik3stuff]

.....And if i said i wanna see your short at a Stephcass moodboard using my usual Stephanie edit? /nf ofc

Stephcass | Stephanie Brown x Cassandra Cain moodboard for @punkeropercyjackson

!! nsfw/racists/anti self-insert | self-shipping/pro-shippers/queerphobes DNI !!

[variouspolltournaments]

Anti-Propaganda is not allowed. Please only give reasons to vote for something and not give reasons to vote against something.

[necrotic-nephilim]

Any ships you don’t like in the batfam fandom that is popular?

OOOH this is such a fun question because I have quite a few

StephCass - i'll be honest this is one of those ships where the fandom ruined it for me. because 2000s StephCass is an elite dynamic, they care for each other so deeply. but the fandom has been intent on defanging and purifying this ship. i don't know *why* but StephCass seems most popular with the anti-Batcest crowd who get very mad if you compare it to ships they deem Batcest. i have an entire meta commentary on this in my drafts I'll likely never post discussing why the only reason StephCass gets the pass for not being Batcest ties directly into misogyny (because the women of the Batfam need to exist as love interests first, not family members so Steph was never going to truly get to exist as a "full" Batfam member so long as she could remain a viable love interest for Tim, and the same can apply to Babs, Helena, and even Cass in some cases) and that just sours me to it. like if i want yuri in Batfam i think there are far more interesting/fucked up ships for Steph like Babs/Steph or Helena/Steph. and when it comes to what i'd actually like to see in canon, i don't want to see Steph relegated to love interest of a Batfamily member, even if it's queer. let her date and exist outside of Gotham the way every other Batfam member gets to, DC *please*.

Bruce/Selina - i can't fully articulate why this ship isn't my thing, it just isn't. i think i just can't conceivably agree with Selina letting go of so many of her fundamental morals and beliefs for the sake of a man, even one she loves such as Bruce. ironically, i think that's one of the few things Gotham War got right about these two. the only canon love interest i like for Bruce is Zatanna and i mourn we'll never get much of that.

JayRoy - i will admit when i was newer to DC the first comics i picked up for Jason were all New-52 and i shipped this. but now that i'm a pre-Flashpoint truther and i've actually read well-written Roy Harper comics, i only see the flaws in this ship. ngl if ppl were actually fun and interesting with it, playing with the idea of Roy knowing Jason as Robin and still seeing him as just Dick's little brother who's gone a little mental, it *could* be fun. but this Red Hood & the Outlaws (2011) and Red Hood/Arsenal (2015) dynamic *butchers* the fuck out of Roy and strips him of everything interesting. and even as a Batfamily stan, my number one pet peeve is when other DC characters get *butchered* in a Batfamily character's book just for the sake of propping up the Bat as some kind of savior. free Roy Harper from this mans.

Bruce/Oliver - we could be here all day if i listed all the Bruce ships i don't like, but i figure this one has to be included. because oh my god either the people shipping this *really* don't understand Oliver Queen or they just hate his ass because why would you subject Oliver to this man. he can't *stand* Bruce. i really hate the popular BruOliie shipping dynamic of like "oh they were boarding school besties" because if you want that, you *should* like Bruce/Zatanna, not these two. Oliver just always gets butchered in these fics and i won't stand for it.

Tim/Bernard - the ESSAYS i could write on this ship and why i dislike it. the fucking *fear* DC (and most popular media tbh) has with depicting queer relationships as anything other than totally perfect and cute for fear of accusations of homophobia has stripped this ship of *any* real grit. Bernard is a non-character in Tim Drake: Robin, he exists to cheer Tim on and prop him up and just be The Boyfriend. we occasionally get glimpses of an interesting character with really interesting trauma and nothing is *done* with it bc at the end of the day, Tim and Bernard must be perfect and cute. what's fun about Tim is he is the *worst* boyfriend alive. that boy is *ass* at dating. all of his relationships are rich with conflict and yet the moment he dates a guy suddenly all of his flaws vanish? i hate it. i mourn what this could've been if we kept messy Tim Drake and had a Bernard who was actually informed by his trauma. DC please let gays be messy again. also of all of Tim's 90s/00s friends to bring back as a love interest, Bernard Dowd was just a *bizarre* fucking choice. Sebastian Ives was *right* there come on now.

Any Crossover Ship - look if crossovers are your cup of tea i'm happy for you but oh my god if i have to see that little green ghost boy or that ladybug girl in the Batfam one more time i think i may explode. i have a lot of thoughts on *why* i think specifically Danny Phantom and Miraculous Ladybug get crossed over as often as they do with the Batfam, but i don't think anyone wants to year that. my only exception to this is Jason/Bucky Barnes, but it *has* to be comics!Bucky. like. Judd Winick's Jason and Ed Brubaker's Bucky would hatefuck and that i wish to see it. any other crossover ship (especially the Peter Parker ones that seem to be rising in popularity) just do *not* do it for me.

honestly besides that i don't think i dislike many ships. (aside from being super opinionated on Bruce ships, but that's mostly bc ppl will use him to butcher the character they ship him with) there are some ships i'm neutral to because i simply do not know enough to have an opinion (like Dick/Wally). i guess the only Batcest ship i'm not particular to is Bruce/Damian, but I wouldn't say that one is popular nor would i say i dislike it, just that it's not my cup of tea. most Batcest ships click for me in one way or another because i like their Weird dnyamics. i guess i could also say i dislike most ships that have come out of Young Justice (tv) because. oh my *god* why were those group of characters put together on a team. it's baffling. but even then it's not disliking those ships, it's moreso disliking that show's depiction of those characters so. everything is really dependant on the canon context for me!

[punkeropercyjackson]

Not that the fandom acts like it but i love how the only gay Batkids ship that's not pedophillia and/or incest is the only wlw one.No white boy/whitewashed yaoi,just autistic4audhd asian4blasian t4t tradgoth x pastel punk yuri

[atla-confessions]

when ppl say kataang is bad bc they're 'siblings/mom and son-coded(?!?!?!)', it reminds me of the batfam fandom people say stephcass is 'sisters-coded'. for context, like kataang, stephcass is a canon ship ableit since it's a wlw one it's almost never explicit and just gets word of god. k/a antis call kataang incest-y bc of reasons that contradict canon(katara SAID she dosen't wanna be seen as motherly!and implied it all the time!!!)and s/c antis call stephcass incest-y bc of reasons that contradict canon too(cass and stephanie do NOT share an adoptive dad, bruce never saw stephanie as his daughter nor she him as her dad). it reminds of a post that says 'people only want platonic relathionships when it's an interracial or lesbian ship'. they're so weird

X

[purple-crusader]

Stephcass Week day 6 is up! Today we deep dive into some fun stuff, which is my take on Cassie's problem with finding identity beside her vigilante persona. Like I said, very fun. It's focused on Steph and Cass' free time as civilians, so I think it fits the prompt, even if they are still vigilantes on the side.

Hope you like it!

STEPHCASS WEEK Day 6: Civilians

Words: 1,188

@stephcassweek

You know things got fucked up, when Cassandra Cain, Black Bat, the daughter of two of the deadliest assassins on Earth, Lady Shiva and David Cain, as well as trained from birth to be a living killing machine, comes back from a fight with a broken arm.

Bane returned to Gotham, with the most powerful version of Venom created yet in his veins and decided the best people to celebrate that occasion with are his friends from the local crime-fighting family. When Batman and Robin realized they could not defeat the man alone, they had to call for reinforcements, those being Red Robin, Nightwing, Red Hood, Batwing, Batwoman and aformentioned Black Bat. It took around an hour of non-stop, brutal fighting and crashing most of the Gotham docks to finally put down the villain, but they managed to do it.

One of the factors in defeating him sadly being Cassandra's sacrifice by pushing away Damian from Bane's hit. She exposed herself, which gave the rest time to gather around the man and finally tie him down and inject an anti-Venom into his veins. Before that happened though, the hit landed on Cass' arm, breaking it and making her unconscious.

Fast forward 4 hours later, Cassandra woke up in the Bat-Cave's med-bay with Alfred and Bruce by her side, telling her what happened. "Your arm is broken in 6 different spots, Madame Cassandra. Recovering from that will take months..." Said Alfred. "I'm sorry, young lady, but in this time we need to put you off your vigilante activities."

It was the first time Cass had to hear those words during her vigilante career. She had never taken enough damage to get benched. Hell, she had never even caught a cold. Her training wouldn't allow it, but Cassandra herself was always incredibely careful with all of her moves, because she knew how much Gotham and her family needs her in the field. Now she's supposted to take a few months long break from that life? She did not answer any of Bruce or Alfred's further questions, just sat on the bed numbly.

For Cass it was like a death penalty, but someone took the news as an opportunity for good, this 'someone' being one and only Stephanie Brown, Cassandra's lovely girlfriend. It's not like she did not feel the pain her partner was experiencing, but she also thought that the dark-haired woman sooner or later needed a vacation and she did not want to wait for their honeymoon for that to happen (and even then Cass would probably pack her suit and change into it the moment she saw a kitten not able to get off a tree).

Cass was advised by Bruce to spend the next four months living in Stephanie's apartment, to be a bit further from the vigilante activity that she would be at home. It lined up perfectly with various activities Steph had planned for them to fill Cass' time during her treatment.

Besides vigilantism, Cassandra was taking online private classes to broaden her opportunities if she wanted to take on a job and generally were supposted to teach her more about the world. These taken up to five hours daily for her. Besides that? She was all free. Usually she'd spent the rest of that time training, working on cases, sleeping, so that she could then have no problem running around on patrols all night. Of course she also always tried to find time to spend with Stephanie, besides when they were cracking a case or playing rooftop tag, so it's not like she had no idea what to do in her free time. That didn't mean the first few days weren't rough for her.

That's where Stephanie came in. The activities she had prepared were generally stuff to bond over or use some skills for. It was stuff like learning to bake new things together, going on walks to the park, the library, the museum. Steph would love to teach Cass more about knitting (a little hobby of hers) but it was definitely hard with her broken hand. She loved to watch though. For lazier nights, Steph would put one of the films or TV shows on the long list she had prepared for her girlfriend to watch one day to be up to date with the pop culture.

And Cassandra absolutely loved all of these things and was really grateful how involved her partner was in making this time better for her. But she could not shake off the feeling that she should be out there, helping people, that she was... wasting time? No, Cass would never say that about time spent with Steph. Yet the feeling was still there.

Something almost broke when the women went on a quiet date in a local coffee shop. It did not end up as quiet as they wanted, when they saw Duke and Bruce drop into park across the street, fighting Mr. Freeze. They did not need help, so Steph was not running to change into her Batgirl suit. It was tempting to Cass. She got up and almost ran out of the shop, when Steph grabbed her healthy hand.

"What are you doing?!" She said quietly but firmly, for it to get to Cass' head. The woman was looking outside the window, as she saw the two vigilantes and the villain leave the park and her sight. She sat back with tears in her eyes. Steph was immediately alarmed. She slided over her chair to seat closer to Cass and hugged her, the dark-haired woman laying her head on the blonde's shoulder.

"I'm sorry." Cass finally raised her eyes to look at Stephanie. "I just- I'm... I love what you do for me." She said taking on of Steph's hands and caressing it. "But I miss this. I can't fight this feeling. I feel so useless... when I can't be out there." More tears rolled down her cheeks.

Steph felt pity for her girlfriend and wasn't really shocked. Cass was made for fighting. First as David Cain's weapon, then she forged it into her mission to help people of Gotham. She was never benched this long and it definitely made her undergo a little identity crisis. But what was Stephanie for, if not going through it with Cassandra?

"Listen, babe, it's okay you feel this way. I'm not mad, I know you have good intentions, but I need you to know, that you are someone bigger than just Black Bat. You are Cassandra Cain, a talented dancer, loving daughter, sister, friend and partner. You are your own person." Steph smiled fondly and kissed Cass on the forehead. She smiled as well.

It got kinda better for Cass after that. Sure, the need to come back to being a vigilante was tingling. But she knew it would come back to her soon. Right now, she had time to pursue things she never thought about before and she wanted to cherish that. Well, maybe even after coming back on the field, she could make some changes to her schedule. To find a moment for Cassandra Cain.

[lonniemachin]

its always insane to me when batcest fans go “umm and how is STEPHCASS not considered batcest? checkmate antis!” guys i may have to break this to you gently. but steph and cass are not related. steph is not bruce’s daughter. it’s not batcest because it’s a relationship between two completely unrelated people. and the “batboys” (minus duke) are all bruce’s sons and therefore brothers and cass’s brothers as well. are you stupid.

[dchuntress]

okay dickroy and heldinah(? idk if that’s the ship name) for the ship asks :3

THANK YOU VIVI FOR THE ASK!!! WE ARE STARTING OFF STRONG HEH

heldinah: i ship it!

what made you ship it?:

i always adored their friendship in the birds of prey comics, but the show justice league: unlimited actually made me revisit them in a romantic angle and — i can see it!

they work and kick ass together often, dinah was one of the first few people helena developed a soft spot for and dinah was also one of the first few people who gave helena a chance. they both put in the effort for each other; dinah is patience with helena and does not expect her to change overnight, while helena is actively working on her issues and tries to come out of her comfort zone to be a better friend to dinah. helena cried when she thought dinah was dying in that one issue of bop, i forgot which one but it was the one involving the the reaper death lady?

another part that really made me love them is when dinah was leaving the birds of prey, and helena missed her so badly that she admitted that she was having dreams about her and dinah being childhood friends in a different world. honestly? they're so emotionally close, i appreciate it - that emotional healthiness is really important for these two i feel.

what are your favorite things about the ship?:

one of my favourite heldinah parts would be is when they were badly mimicking supervillains and heroes for fun, and dinah made helena laugh out loud with her silly impression of batman.

is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?:

well, i guess... i liked their chemistry in the birds of prey movie? despite all the inaccuracies, these two have helped make it pretty enjoyable for me.

dinah (as well as babs) would not have slutshamed helena in that issue of bop 1999. absolutely uncalled for.

dickroy: i don't ship it.

i am not against the ship!

really, i mean that i am very neutral about this ship, i actually spend an hour specifically seeking out dickroy stuff to actually try and understand their appeal. i have seen a couple of dickroy fanart in the past, and i think i just haven't seen anything that could convince me.

this isn't a hate or anti post i promise T_T i just like rambling

why don’t you ship it?:

i haven't seen anything about them — comics, fans, or ideas — that piqued my interest, i do love their friendship and teamwork, though. i also think it doesn't help that i love and adore dick, whereas i'm not that interested in roy, personally.

what would have made you like it?:

i'm not sure, honestly. i was actually very neutral about stephcass and timkon in the beginning, but after gradual exposure to their content on tumblr, i developed a soft spot for them! but again, i like those four characters separately on their own. maybe, to appreciate dickroy better, i'd have to like roy first?

despite not shipping it, do you have anything positive to say about it?:

yes!

i think they have a very good foundation for a relationship, their friendship is admirable and they seem really nice for each other, i love healthy ships and which is why i love friends to lovers.

dick is good with kids and seems to get along with lian very well, so i appreciate this ship even more.

that one panel of helena in the outsiders saying something like "take care of your boy" to dick, where she's calling roy dick's boy helpppp. iconic. dickroy gives off the "everybody knows they're dating except them themselves" energy tbh which is so neat to me