#Batsalt

[cologona]

Jason and Talia both attempting to separate themselves from their fathers and both being forcibly chained back to them by love by the status quo by the fact that they don’t get to have their integrity matter.

[magnoliasandarson]

(T)imposter Syndrome

He didn't need Jason (his hero) beating him to a bloody pulp and calling him "replacement". He was already painfully aware he was a placeholder.

Alfred kept him at arm's length and Bruce could barely speak a sentence to him that wasn't case related. Dick was a light in the darkness, but even he was trying to prove he could be a good brother because he failed with Jason. His parents only tolerated his existence on the best of days, and the Titans were not the family Dick promised they would be. (Maybe Kon would miss him)

He had photographed the costumed Wayne's from afar for years. It was pathetic and sad, but because of it he knew them. He knew he was being looked through. Even if they were looking through him though, they were looking to him. It was beyond pathetic, but he could handle the vacant stares if it meant their eyes were on him.

Laying in a pool of his own blood, Tim stared at the steadily darkening ceiling. He hadn't cried when Jason attacked him, when his hero back-from-the-dead jammed their symbol into his chest. He hadn't cried when Jason walked away, leaving him to die alone. As strange as it was, he decided he wouldn't cry about this. He should've known better, he didn't deserve to cry about his folly. (I'll give you something to cry about.)

His eyes closed of their own accord, and he used whatever strength he had left to yank the bloodied R from his chest. This was what he deserved for trying to be the one in front of the camera.

[ijustthinkhesneat]

I genuinely like to believe that Bruce’s natural state is Brucie. His resting persona. I think Bruce is smart don’t get me wrong, but you can be smart and ditzy. My citation is Legally Blonde.

I think the Batman persona for him is ultimately a flexing of the mental muscles. Like he read one article on how to be a serious adult and was like I’m gonna do that at 9000%.

I believe that after Jason died is when Batman stopped being the mask, at least for a while. And yeah trauma, dead kid. But it’s also because Bruce was in the reverse position to when his parents were murdered. He was the parent who outlived his child. So he couldn’t afford to not be on edge, the vulnerability it takes to be silly and mess wasn’t going to keep his other son safe. It wouldn’t keep Dick or Tim or Damian safe.

I think if they steered back to Bruce learning to be vulnerable around his friends and especially around his family the comics could be so much better and set the base for many more stories that weren’t a repeat of the same cycle of abuse. It feels like the comics have been hell bent on breaking these characters for so long. Chipping them down to the worst, darkest parts of themselves. And that’s fine. But the writers don’t know when to stop. They can’t see that there is nothing left to break anymore.

[redhoodinternaldialectical]

"Murder is Werewolves" - Batman

I don't got the SPOONS to do this thought train justice, I have seriously been trying to write this thing for MONTHS so just, idk, have this half baked skeletal outline of the essay I guess:

I don't believe that Batman's no-kill rule is primarily about rehabilitation or second chances.

His refusal to believe that Cassandra could have killed someone when she was eight years old because "how could a killer understand my commitment not to kill" is absolute fucking MOON LOGIC from a rehabilitationist standpoint. No jury on the planet would think for even a second that she could reasonably be held accountable for her actions in that situation! Her past cannot condemn her to being incapable of valuing human life under a rehabilitation centering framework. However, Batman's reasoning makes perfect sense if he believes that killing is a spiritually/morally corrupting act which permanently and fundamentally changes a person, and that corruption can never be fully undone.

Dick Grayson killing the Joker is treated both narratively and by Batman as an unequivocally WIN for the Joker. The Joker won by turning Nightwing into a killer. Note that this is during a comic in which the Joker transforming people was a major theme! Batman didn't revive the Joker because the Joker deserved to live; he revived the Joker to lift the burden on Dick.

His appeal to Stephanie when she tried to kill her dad is that she shouldn't ruin her own life. He gives no defense of Cluemaster's actual life. Granted this is a rhetorical strategy moment and should be taken with a generous pinch of salt, but it fits in the pattern.

When Jason becomes a willful killer, he essentially disowns him, never treats him with full trust ever again, and... Well, we can stop here for Bruce's sake. Bottom line is that his actions towards Jason do not lead me to believe that he thinks Jason can become a better person without having his autonomy taken from him, either partially or fully.

The Joker is, for better or worse, the ultimate symbol and vessel of pure, irredeemable evil in DC comics now. He hasn't been just another crook in a long time. He will never get better, he will only get worse. If you take it to be true that the Joker will not or can not rehabilitate, then there's no rehabilitationist argument against killing him.

Batman does not seem to consider it a possibly that he'll rehabilitate. Batman at several points seems to think that the Joker dying in a manner no one could have prevented would be good. Yet Batman fully believes that if he killed the Joker, he himself would become irredeemable.

Batman's own form of justice (putting people into the hospital and then prison) is fucking brutal and clearly not rehabilitative. He disrespects the most basic human rights of all criminals on a regular basis. It is genuinely really, really weird from a rehabilitationist standpoint that his only uncrossable line is killing... But it makes perfect sense if he cares more about not corrupting himself with the act of killing than the actual ethical results of any individual decision to kill or not kill.

In the real world cops are all bastards because they are too violent to criminals, even when that violence doesn't lead to death. Prison is a wildly evil thing to do to another human being, and you don't use it to steal away massive portions of a person's life if your goal is to rehabilitate them. In the comic world, Batman is said to be necessary because the corrupt cops are too nice to criminals and keep letting them out of jail. I don't know how to write a connector sentence there so like I hope you can see why this bothers me so damn much! That's just not forgiveness vibes there Batman!!

I want to make special note here of the transformative aspect. You don't simply commit a single act when you kill, no, you become a killer, like you might become a werewolf.

The narrative supports this a lot!

Why did Supes go evil during Injustice? He killed the Joker. Why did Bruce become the Batman Who Laughs? Bruce killed the Joker. Why was Jason Todd close to becoming a new Joker during Three Jokers? Because he killed people, to include the Joker.

Even if these notions of redemption being impossible aren't the whole of his reasoning (people never have only one reason for doing what they do) it is a distinct through-line pattern in his actions and reasoning, and it is directly at odds with notions of rehabilitation, redemption, and second chances.

So why does he give so many killers second chances?

Firstly because this doesn't apply to all versions of Batman. Some writers explicitly incorporate rehabilitation and forgiveness into his actions. You will be able to provide me with examples of this other through-line pattern if you go looking for them. The nature of comics is to be inconsistent.

Secondly the existence of that other pattern does not negate the existence of this one. People and characters are complex, and perfectly capable of holding two patterns of belief within themselves, even when they conflict to this degree. You can absolutely synthesize these two ideas into a single messy Batman philosophical vibescape.

Finally and most importantly to this essay: he has mercy on killers the same way that werewolf hunters sometimes have mercy on someone who is clearly struggling against their monsterous nature, especially if they were turned in exceptional circumstances or against their will. They understand that they are sick, damned beasts, cursed to always be fighting against themselves and the evil they harbor within. It is vitally kind to help them fight themselves by curtailing their autonomy in helpful ways and providing them with chances to do some good to make up for their eternal moral deficiency.

I think in many comics Batman views killers as lost souls. Battered and tormented monsters who must be pitied and given mercy wherever possible. (The connections to mental health, addiction, and rampant, horrifying ableism towards people struggling with both is unavoidable, but addressing it is sadly outside of the scope of this essay.)

Above all, the greatest care possible must be taken to never, ever let yourself become one of them, because once you have transformed the beast will forever be within you growing stronger.

To Batman, it is the most noble burden, the highest mercy, the most important commandment: Thou shalt suffer the monsters to live.

[tumblingxelian]

A writer or artist having puns be one of Yang's favorite things and or a major character trait is always low key a red flag to me.

It is like Stephanie from DC loving waffles; a thing the character did/ate maybe once (Yang's train pun was an accident on the writers part) becoming a core personality trait.

The fact it is often tethered to pieces that frame Yang as a 'dumb' characters, an immature party girl and the like is what really kills it.

Much in the same way if Stephanie loves waffles I know she's gonna be "The silly one" rather than "Shockingly chill with murder" one.

[notdexterousatall]

Catatonic!Jason fic where he ends up back with the Bats before Talia grabs him. Due to situations, he gets left alone with the Joker for a bit before the rest of the Bats show up to rescue him. Jason's first lucid act of his second life is to strangle Joker to death. Bruce and family come back to find Jason wringing the life out of Joker's lifeless corpse, viciously.

[comicslina]

It's not perfect, but at least we have WFA, where the writers obviously care about the characters.

....the movie is going to treat Jason like shit, isn't it?

[cologona]

Which is it Bruce? Is it your fault or his?

(Trick question. It is Bruce’s fault for not having control, and Jason’s fault because Robin is an extension of himself (Batman). Robin should’ve had control of the situation (should’ve been like Dick) and failing that he should’ve given control to Batman (obeyed Bruce).

As a side note: because it’s all ultimately Bruce’s fault, Batman’s failure, this means that justice for Jason comes in the form of Bruce’s self-flagellating manpain. Surely if Bruce punishes himself with a big fat display and stews in his misery that does something good?

The original 80′s Jason Todd vs how writers perceive him now. 

[cologona]

Jason’s red hoodie costume looks pretty good with the cargo pants tbh. I really think the adidas sweatpants and the strappy balenciaga boots were the elements dragging the whole fit down.

Makes it all the more baffling that those were the only parts kept for this disaster of a look.

[magnoliasandarson]

Dick Grayson, Golden Boy

It pissed Dick off when Jason called him “Golden Boy,” but he understood why he said it. 

Dick Grayson had been the first- the first son, the first Robin, the first failure, and the first success. He was the prodigal son, the runaway who returned to his place at Bruce’s side. It was a position earned with blood—a terrible privilege. He couldn't stay away, he'd tried, he was the only one that could temper Bruce's fire.

Dick drew lines in the sand- screamed in Bruce’s face, called him out on his failings, demanded better of him- then he took the man’s punches “for not knowing his place.” There was never an apology (not that Dick would accept it). He wiped the blood off his face, and when someone asked what happened, he said he slipped up, and some random mugger got in a lucky shot. He wasn’t sure who he was protecting when he said it. He still rushes to Bruce's side when called.

He recognizes bits of Bruce eating away at his soul. He tries desperately to stay Mary and John’s son, tries to keep the light alive in his soul. Robin is magic. He feels the darkness creeping in at the edges of his mind. He’s Nightwing; he’s not in Gotham, not in Bruce’s shadow, but he’s never been more of a Bat. He isolates himself and pushes people away. He’s too controlling, too morally rigid. The fearless leader become tyrant.

He fails each of the Robins in new and increasingly horrifying ways, but always for the same reason: he puts the mission first. Bruce is proud of him for it; somehow, that approval hurts him more than any punch ever did. It keeps him up at night, Tim’s face when he left (forced away by Dick’s actions), Damian’s pride at becoming Robin (he was only ten), Jason’s eyes filled with resentment and deep sadness (he had been right all along). 

He hates Bruce when he sees him in the mirror. He hates Bruce when he hears him in his own voice. Bruce Wayne was the worst person on Earth, but Dick Grayson was his favorite son. So what did that make him?

[cologona]

I also dislike the way that Dick having always been close to Jason makes him into this all-perfect older brother figure. It’s flat and boring and is uncomfortably close to validating the way that Bruce puts Dick on a pedestal.

Idk, I’m not a Dick main so maybe I’ve misunderstood some stuff but I feel like.

Bruce and Dick didn’t speak for months after he was fired! That matters! His fears of not being good enough makes sense if the *one time* that he had to figure himself and his own life out outside of Bruce, a kid died. His brother, technically. Dick forever forgiving Bruce, forever sticking around the family despite all the fucky bullshit Bruce does over the years makes more sense if there’s a little boy’s ghost acting like a ball-and-chain on Dick’s psyche. (Not that Jason’s death is the only reason Dick sticks with Bruce but it’s important!)

Y’know, there’s a reason why I’m such a hardass about pointing out that Dick and Jason were never close in canon. 

It’s not because I resent Dick for being preoccupied with his own life and issues with Bruce (how do you possibly blame someone for daring to have their own problems), and it’s not because I have anything against the idea of those two having that kind of relationship.

It’s because I just don’t think Jason would have died the way he did if he’d had someone like Dick Grayson in his life. I don’t think he would have resorted to suicidal behavior (as confirmed by Bruce himself) to the point of being benched because he was lonely and missed his family, or felt desperate enough to hop on a plane without talking to anyone first.

To recap, at the time of Death in the Family, fifteen-year old Jason Todd: teamed up with Babs once or twice (written after his death, mind you), teamed up with Dick once, had difficulty communicating with someone as clumsy with emotions as Bruce, felt like he always fell short of the ideal that Dick presented, had no extracurricular activities in school (including stage crew, which he really wanted to join), had no friends in school, didn’t fight crime alongside any other teenage sidekicks (his original NTT appearances were Pre-Crisis and the later retcon depicted him as being alienated and friendless even within that team), struggled to separate himself from personal crimes he witnessed as Robin (such as rape), had never processed his parents’ deaths, refused to talk to Alfred about why he was crying alone in his room, etc.

In short, Jason was in a pretty miserable, isolated corner at that point. That made him reckless enough to jump at the first chance of finding more family. I’m not saying he wouldn’t rush off to find his biological mother anyway, because it’s clear that Jason wanted a mother in particular, but I am saying that he wouldn’t have resorted to such lengths if he thought he already had a solid family.  

But if Dick had been around? If they chatted on the phone sometimes? If they hung out in their downtime? If Dick had been more active in integrating Jason into the NTT, giving Jason the chance to form deeper connections with people like Donna and Kory? If Jason could vent to someone who understood how Bruce worked? If Jason had Dick’s consistent approval as his successor? If Dick taught Jason some of his own tricks of the trade? If Jason just felt comfortable talking to someone when he was low? 

I just can’t see Jason running off to Ethiopia if he had Dick as a big brother. 

[cologona]

Bruce didn’t mean to slice Jason’s throat and if he did mean it, it was only to disable , it wasn’t lethal and the wound would’ve been treated, and though that didn’t happen it wasn’t Bruce who sealed Jason’s fate but Joker who set off the explosion, and anyways Jason didn’t actually die he comes back in other comics.

Except none of that matters. It matters for the validity of UTRH as a Batman story that Bruce has deniability sure, but does it absolve him? UTRH says No. At the end of the day Bruce would rather attack his son than let his murderer die. Bruce thought he was refusing the choice but the lesson of this tragedy is that refusing to pick one over the other boils down to choosing the other.

[magnoliasandarson]

Stephanie Brown, Stained Glass

It's easy to disregard Stephanie Brown. She was unremarkable, through and through. Another loudmouth who never learned when to shut up. Another Gotham reject harboring a bone to pick with the world. 

Her mom loved her; she had at least that going for her, but it wasn't motherly love as seen on TV. Whenever her mom wasn't popping pills to drown out her emotions, she was weeping about Stephanie's dad. Speaking of the douche, Cluemaster, how original. She couldn't make her dad behave as Stephanie, but if she donned a mask, she'd be able to spoil his fun.

Spoiler took to the streets, and suddenly people saw her. Not the loudmouth whose dad got his ass kicked by Batman, Spoiler. And she was glorious. Course the Bat disagreed, said she was unpolished and unprepared. But that emo furry didn't get an opinion on how Stephanie lived her life, and Tim was always there to smooth things over if B took it too far. Tim was sweet and all, but Stephanie knew damn well what it felt like when people looked at her and saw only a step in their path. So when Boy Blunder fucked off, she donned a new mask because she'd always been worthy of his time, and he was an idiot.

She was good at being Robin; whether Batfuck would agree or not is totally irrelevant. She saved his life, and he fired her. Her eyes caught on the memorial in the cave, A Good Soldier. Yeah, maybe Stephanie wasn't a good soldier, but being one hadn't done Jason any favors. If the Bat's idea of a good Robin was a rule-following pushover, Stephanie would show him a great Robin was anything but.

She set out to prove once and for all that she, Stephanie Brown, was good- at her job, at being a hero, at being a daughter- good. She nabs one of Batfuck's underdeveloped schemes off the Batcomputer and modifies it to suit her. Maybe she wasn't the problem, maybe- just maybe, the problem was B's bullshit. Her plan goes beautifully. She's alive, brilliant, and better than ever- and she was right all along: she was a hero. They find her body hours later.

She didn't even get a memorial.

[cologona]

Cassandra Cain is the redemption focused hero that people want Batman to be.

[magnoliasandarson]

"I trained you well"

Bruce says it snidely, a throw-away jab in between actual punches. It makes the green filling Jason's vision swell like a riptide. The Pit howls in his ears, demanding blood.

He wants to scream that Bruce hadn't trained him well and that he fucking knows it. If he had been trained well, he wouldn't have died in that warehouse in Ethiopia. He wants to empty his clip into Bruce's smug fucking face right then and there; he wants to beat him to death with a crowbar so he'd feel the agony he felt.

The pit roars a half-feral battle cry through his mouth, and he throws himself at the Bat. A flurry of fists and fury, blades and righteous anger. This wasn't Bat training, this was the League, this was the All-Caste, this was the Alley. Jason was a product of many things, but he would die again before letting Bruce claim any of what he was.

In another life, he'd screamed through tears that he was Bruce's son, only for Bruce to say he wasn't and take Robin away. He'd made it clear Jason wasn't a Bat- wasn't a Wayne. He didn't get to rewrite history now.

[cologona]

Batman roots out corruption in Gotham at the same time that Bruce takes part in it to cover for his activities lol. (Brucie is never going to beat the allegations that he’s in bed with the Bat.)

Bruce Wayne critic / conspiracy iceberg:

🌊 Bruce Wayne is a himbo whose soft idiot heart leads to him adopting children on a whim. This is not how adoption should work but at least those kids will be cared for.

🧊 Bruce Wayne is a vapid womanizer who probably adopts kids just for PR because he’s so rich it costs him comparatively nothing. This is not how kids should be treated.

🐟 It may be the case that Damian isn’t the only child Bruce conceived in secret, he’s just the only one whose mother is influential enough to force Bruce to acknowledge his child.

🦑 Damian is the only one publicly acknowledged as Bruce’s biological son because of how obviously they resemble each other, but he’s actually not the only one. Bruce has a history of conceiving children out of wedlock and then swooping in and taking custody once the icky kid years are over. It remains up in the air which kids are actually adopted and which are biological- maybe all of them are actually related! (Cue 1200 miles of cyclical forum debate)

🪼 Bruce is a creep with a thing for young boys with black hair and blue eyes. CPS is in his pocket. It isn’t a coincidence that he adopts a new boy each time the previous one leaves him. Cassandra and Damian may have been taken in solely to obfuscate this pattern.

☠️ (cont. ) Considering Cassandra’s age when she was adopted, she mightve been taken in because Bruce saw the opportunity to replicate the dynamic he has with his adoptive sons with an (almost) woman.

Rebuttals:

🌊 Bruce isn’t adopting kids on a whim, he’s an orphan himself so he understands their loss. He cares and he has the means to support them so it’s not irresponsible.

🕊️ Five children with vastly different backgrounds, trauma, and emotional needs is overkill just for PR.

☁️ (1200 miles of cyclical forum debate about the history of Bruce’s flings and the quality of his character.)

☀️ This is disrespectful to the birth parents of the kids. [Referencing forum attempts to compare the Wayne kids’ features: “Do ThE bUtTs MaTcH??? 🤪”]

🌌 [Mostly unknown by the general public. The same evidence which supports the child abuse theory is also concerningly convincing that the Waynes are secretly vampires. Bruce’s PR team have to treat both rumors like a house-fire, lest someone make the connection between the Bat-man and a suspected vampire.]

Out-of-towners are the most likely to believe the creep allegations upon hearing them; Gotham knows how much Bruce truly cares for his kids. Anyone actually close to the Waynes can tell that something is seriously off about them, but it can’t be explained by typical grooming.

i wonder how many social workers bruce paid off over the years.

like?? broken bones. busted lips. black eyes. these would’ve been hotlined for sure.

even ignoring the injuries, bruce wouldn’t have been a first pick as a foster placement. like with dick specifically, you’re supposed to try to find a family friend to stay with before you look for strangers so i feel like dick should’ve been placed with someone from the circus. but instead bruce wayne, a 20-something billionaire. i bet bruce has the gotham city department of social services in his wallet. i bet every year there’s a rookie social worker fresh out of college determined to take bruce down but it never works bc bribery talks in gotham