#anti Bella Swan

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

Hi👋

Why does Bella refuse to remember and/or admit that Ed intentionally killed and ate people? It is mentioned, he told her about it, but she shows no fear, no disapproval, nothing at all. Why?

I mean, she does neither of those things.

She both remembers he did this, admits it, she just doesn't care/doesn't think it concerns her or is all that concerning of a thing.

Edward tells her about this in great angst, the years he... gave into temptation, expecting her to run out the door (as he expected her to with many of the things he admits) and she goes "wow, that's a story" and then Edward decides he is not going to push his luck here.

See, Edward's long since in his redemption arc. He doesn't eat people anymore, see. And even when he did, being a vampire and not eating people is really hard and Bella understands that. And Edward at least tried to only eat bad people, so that's points for something, right?

Though to give Bella credit, Edward tells this story himself in the kindest way to himself he possibly could. He doesn't go into details, he doesn't list exact numbers/is very vague about the... many people it was, he insists his victims were all bad and does admit "but I do realize this was wrong and made me just as terrible" and he very quickly moves past it. And Bella is not partial, she wants to love Edward, and so she wants to frame everything he says as being wonderful/good/or at least not that bad.

What Edward describes is safely decades in the past, it was only regarding 'bad' people, it sounds like vampire thirst is really hard and Edward's family is very impressive for sticking to it so she decides it's not something that should worry her.

As it is, Bella is... perhaps a bit too understanding of any vampire that eats people throughout the series as sure, she prefers if people do it the Cullen way, and thinks the Volturi are deplorable for their tourist eating scheme, but she has 0 problem with the many vampires that show up in Breaking Dawn and sure do eat a lot of people.

Not to mention the time she asks why the Cullens even bother not to eat people if it's so difficult and unrewarding and Edward just... stares at her.

The thing about Bella that can be a good thing or a bad thing (but is couched in the series as a good thing always) is that she's very accepting of people on a personal level if she likes them. As such, Bella's friends and family are forgiven their every flaw, not limited to eating people, and people Bella doesn't like are... not forgiven for that time they went on a terrible movie outing together that was entirely Bella's fault.

And I do have to increasingly wonder...

How many of you anons just watched the movies? Because a good number of you show up with questions that are very much addressed in the books but just get weird one-off lines or are never explained in the films.

[sailoreuterpe]

Just wanted to say your ask to panlight about Bella and everyone suffering except her, was spot on and you've listed everything that annoys me about her and her choices.

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking that!

👋🏻 hope you're having a good day!

Thank you so much! I genuinely enjoy when other readers analysis and headcanon the series into something more equal and fair. However, as presented, I just don't see Bella as this uniquely kind and selfless person. Depressed and inert, sure. However, in my opinion, there is a significant difference between kindness because of genuine altruism and "kindness" because of martyrdom or self-loathing. I'm speaking from unfortunate personal experience.

As well, as I listed, so many of Bella choices are only difficult or sacrificial for her in the short term. Yes, she suffers pain from choosing Edward when James targets her, but within two years she's a fabulous vampire with everything she ever wanted. Same with choosing to go to Italy, choosing to have Nessie, etc. Whereas Leah, Rose, and so many others not only never even had a choice, but then they get to suffer continually. Leah will always miss her father, Rose will always long for children and live with her trauma, and so on.

It's especially aggravating when others suffer because of Bella's choices. Bella chooses Edward; Jacob forcefully imprints on Nessie, where neither of them actually have a choice. Bella chooses to run to Edward in New Moon; the entire Cullen clan is now on the Volturi's hit list. Bella chooses to reunite with Edward and the Cullens; Victoria creates a newborn army which kills dozens of young people and causes the shifters to transform. Bella chooses the vampires over the shifters and demands that Edward sit out the fight; the other combatants are in more danger and Jacob gets hurt. Bella chooses to have Nessie; the shifters get pulled into a supernatural war and transformed against their will.

Yes, so much of that isn't directly Bella's fault. However, Bella spends very little time thinking of any consequences for herself, let alone anyone else. She's willing to die to be with Edward, her parents be damned. She's willing to put so many others into danger to be with Edward, this "good" character we're supposed to champion. She's even willing to die with Edward against the Volturi, after an entire book praising what an amazing mother she is. Having a baby doesn't make you a mother; being a parent does, and honestly Rose and Jacob are more of Nessie's parents than Bella and Edward.

As someone who cares about all of the characters, I just don't see Bella as the heroine or the story as fair. Bella actively, consistently choses Edward over all other things (and all other people). The narrative rewards her decisions (that are pretty fucking selfish and terrible across the board) by giving her her every dream come true and her "perfect piece of forever." Everyone else has to make due with Bella's crumbs.

Some choice.

[coffeebooksrain18]

i see you make moodboards for twilight, are you a twilight fan😍😍pleeeeaaase give me all your twilight opinions!!!

Ooooh! Never been asked about Twilight yet!

Firstly I hate Edward, Team Jacob all the way but I'm mostly a Jacob deserved better team.

Hate Edward and Hate Bella because...Jesus those tow suck. Edward is a stalker which is gross, he also believes he's better than other vamps cause he drinks animals instead of Humans even though he forgets many probably were never taught this was a option or even knew or thought it was a option.

Then there's Bella...where do I start? She's a mage bitch. She's always worried how others think of her and her looks and then instantly judge anyone she meets and how they look or act. Also she used Jake when Edward left, made him think there was a chance even though there wasn't and she knew that.

I LOVE Rose! Yeah she's a bitch too but you at least can understand why unlike Bella. All of the Cullans traumas are fleshed out and interesting and you understand why they act the way they do, except Edward. It really felt like Stef didn't want to flesh his out more or else she knew we'd HATE him.

Also I'm not a active part in the fandom, I read fics from time to time but I don't make posts lol.

Thanks for the ask Anon!

[restinslices]

(I swear to y’all, imma go back to Mortal Kombat. But I have to rant. Imma pretend it’s the early 2000s and rant about Twilight. If you’re pro any of the Cullens, don’t even read this)

I’m not saying Jacob should’ve kissed Bella, but my thing is this; Jacob kisses you and you call him a dog and say you hope Edward kills him. Edward has done foul shit the ENTIRE SERIES and you let him slide repeatedly. There’s this part where Bella gets mad and says something like “at least Edward an act like an adult”. Bitch. He IS AN ADULT. What do you mean? Bella is way more harsh when it comes to Jacob and I don’t get why she holds so much anger towards this child and holds him to this high standard but has none of these feelings when it comes to the old ass adult she’s with. Since I’m typing, Stephanie Myers is weird and idc what y’all say. I remember Bella described Leah as beautiful in an EXOTIC way. MA’AM? It feels like she realized how asshole-ish the Cullens are and tried to make the wolves seem worse but all I’m thinking is “they’re definitely in the right when it comes to not liking the Cullens”.

The wolves don’t like vampires because they’re a safety risk. The Cullens being there (keep in mind, they’re rich enough to leave and never come back) is triggering these young ass people to turn into wolves. The Cullens don’t like the wolves because?? They have no valid reason. Edward constantly says the wolves are dangerous and yeah, they’re not the safest to be around but compared to vampires they’re a lot safer. Bella has only been harmed by vampires and only the vampires have tried to end her life. James, Laurent, Jasper, Victoria, the new born army that’s forming, the Volturi. She’s only been in danger because of the wolves once. Like, I don’t get how Stephanie expects us to agree with Edward when there’s proof that the wolves are way safer. Not 100% safe but better than vampires. And while I love Seth, I swear Seth is the “you’re not like the others” character. They only like Seth because he doesn’t hold animosity towards them as if that animosity isn’t valid. It’s giving “you’re not like other blacks, you talk proper” (ik he’s not black, it’s an example). I’m finishing the books because I’m too deep to quit but I wish they let Victoria finish the job.

[magicianpanache]

Who is Renée Dwyer ?

Who is Renée Dwyer ? Bella seems to have a pretty positive opinion of her. She's slightly condescending, and a bit insecure, but overall Bella seems to really love her. However, let's be honest here, Bella is a terrible judge of character, so I wanted to explore her a little.

Most people seem to have one of two views of Renee

A well meaning woman who got pregnant too soon but did her best. Things weren't perfect, but she tried to encourage Bella to try new things.

After all, she seems to really care about Bella. She's frantic when she goes to see her in the hospital in Twilight, they seem to have a good relationship... In fact, Bella doesn't seem to resent her in the least.

She signs up Bella for ballet, and accepts that Bella doesn't like it and lets her drop it, which suggests she respects Bella's opinion.

2. A neglectful woman who shouldn't have gotten custody, emotionally abusive and narcissistic

Why would I think that ? Bella cooks too well for a seventeen year old and seems to have been responsible for paying the bills for a while.

Most egregiously, Bella knows the last words her mom told her dad before leaving. Why, in God's name does she know that ? It screams enmeshment and parentification on Renée's part.

Where do you stand ?

[threebooksoneplot]

Was just catching up on the pod and had to chime in on ep 29. I think it’s a little unfair to say that Bella is being over the top in her depression era. Yes she is sad about Edward leaving but it goes deeper than that: it wasn’t just a boyfriend she was losing.

She is an only child with an immature, selfish mom and a dad that, while nice enough, hardly knows her. The Cullens are a large, cohesive, loving family and she wanted to join them badly. Also, now that she knows that the supernatural exists, she wants to be a part of that world badly and losing Edward also meant losing her chance at immortality. She didn't just lose a boyfriend, she lost the best possible version of her life.

Bella's depression is always going to be a hot topic, trust me bestie. G has talked pretty decently in-show about how Bella lost her entire support system. that's 100% true: she put all her eggs in one vampire-shaped basket, went full tunnel-vision when it came to edward, and only focused on that for 6+ months. but imo it's unfair to point toward charlie and renee (don't worry, I'll get into that) and shuffle responsibility onto them for the way bella spirals after edward/the cullens depart, leaving her with some vague yearning for a loving family (which, tbh, I'm not sure I see supported in canon in any way?)

friend I am so sorry to break it to you but the podcast jokes about stanning renee are not a bit. I (shannon) will always come to the defense of my girl renee dwyer because of how severely she's been mischaracterized by fandom at large. I won't get into it too deeply (me when I lie) because I really could go on all day but bella's parents being distant to the plot they way they both are is 100% by design. it's the whole Disney Mom Effect. when your character is designed to go off on adventures and have a fantastical journey, you sort of end up killing the mom (or at least one parent) so that there's more of that push for the main character to go out and make their own life! woo! enjoy your magical journey! but if you have a mom that is thoughtful, super-involved, ever-present, and/or ahem, alive, that fucks with the plans. renee isn't some neglectful monster who abandoned her daughter to go spend weekends in miami. charlie isn't some dumb sitcom dad who weaponizes incompetence to get free meals. they both love, care about, and worry for bella the way a normal parent would (and we see this in canon). now, smeyer didn't kill either of them, but honestly she pulled off charlie and renee's characters really well imo!

anyways, I agree that losing a vampire boyfriend that could have offered you infinite money or eternal life is a big L, no matter what. but the thing is, bella doesn't care about either of those things. she doesn't care about anything beyond Being With Edward (and Alice, to a lesser extent). the vampirism and cullens are a bonus perk, but she only focuses on edward. that's why we're always going to clown on her "throbbing" holes and her boring nightmares. sure, I feel bad about her complete lack of self-esteem and her self-destructive streak, but it's so hard to feel bad for her when the way she thinks about and acts toward non-cullen characters is like, uh... not great. so I am very sorry to you and the whole of your defense squad, and I wish you the best in your journey, but I don't think we'll ever NOT roll our eyes at Bella's behavior in this book 💔😔—shannon

^ me (G) reading shannon's answer to this

I mostly agree (except for the part about pulling off charlie's and renee's characters well. idk if I'd go THAT far.) the tl;dr for me is that I understand why many people find bella (particularly in her depression era) relatable, and I entered into this reading hoping (and even lowkey expecting) that I too would come away with more appreciation for her character, but I....did not. the opposite happened. that's my truth and if it makes me a hater, I'm a hater ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ —G

[thecarnivorousmuffinart]

Bella Swan from Twilight as a shojou anime protagonist who just wants senpai to notice her.

[violet-phoenix-nebula]

So, this is apparently gonna be harder than I thought.

I'm looking for pre-canon, non-pairing vampire-Carlisle fanfics.

I know someone has to have written the centuries so many of us are interested in of Carlisle's life pre Twilight canon. So I'm on the hunt for some.

[darkcrowprincess]

Bella I hate you a lot. Especially because of the stress you constantly cause Charlie. And you still willingly chose to be a vampire! Tbis guy loves you. And you still do this to him.

Do you think he started doing it again in new moon? Do you think he ever stopped?

[ophelieverse]

In Elain book i really want overprotective and jealous mate Lucien that tell Azriel to back the fuck off.He’s been too nice and people out there still saying that he’s “forcing” Elain to be with him only because they are mates.My boy had minded his business the entire time and didn’t forced no one to be with him,he wants only to get to know her and he has all the right to do that.

The one who is forcing his way in is Azriel and it’s really embarrassing for him to do so.Cause imagine only liking someone because your brothers are dating her sisters and you have to do that too.He’s literally an ancient adult acting like a toddler.

So in the next book i want Lucien to pull a Bella Swan in Breaking Down part 2.You know that one scene that she have with Jacob?

Lucien to Azriel: “I’ve held her once!One time Azriel!And already you think you have some moronic bat claim on her?She’s mine!”

And then to throw him against a tree because he deserves it.

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

Speaking of Renee and Leech In The Rain, why was she the only one out of the three to read the room and know what the Romanians were going to do with her and Bella?

Leech on the Rain by me and @therealvinelle

For lack of a better way to put it, the idea simply doesn't fit into Bella or Edward's worldviews.

Both, in many ways, are trapped at their respective mental ages when they were turned. Edward will forever be a seventeen-year-old boy, Bella will forever be just nineteen years old.

While Renee is a highly narcissistic, selfish character (who is quite fun and does have her heart in the right place when she remembers to), she also has a lot more world experience and maturity (at least in some ways) than either Bella or Edward.

Bella just isn't there enough to recognize the flags of what kind of a situation she's in. To her, rape is what nearly happened in Port Angeles, it's faceless men coming out of dark corners and assaulting her out of nowhere.

It's not people she not only had conversations with, but was allies with for a long time and even counted among her friends. Bella and Edward are both in the headspace that good is entirely good and bad is entirely bad, or more specifically, anyone who takes their side in a fight must be on the side of 'good'.

For all the Romanians easily admit to having done foul things, wanting foul things, in Breaking Dawn Bella never seems to clue in that these are bad dudes and that the reasons they want to overthrow the Volturi do not align with the reasons she wants to.

And to Edward, rape is conducted by evil men who are irredeemably evil and violent in their every action. It is people driven by lust and violence, people who are in their innermost nature inhuman. This is a mindset Edward never grows out of in the series, even as he decides to become a better person for Bella's sake. Bad is always bad and good is always good and, again, those who agree with him must be good because he is good.

I don't see him realizing that rape is often a tool of power, that it can be a calculated evil like what the Romanians intended. And even if he did, again, the Romanians are allies and friends who also want to bring down the Volturi. If they share Edward's goal, if they've been aiding them all this time, and if Edward hasn't detected the scent of evil in their thoughts--the idea that they'd do this wouldn't even occur to him.

And so, we have Renee, who is a woman who has lived with decades more experience and thus can clue into what this is about to turn into.

[therealvinelle]

Would Edward be jealous if he knew that Bella thought Carlisle and Rosalie were hot hot hot?

It's factually correct they are hot hot hot, I imagine he'd nod approvingly to the Carlisle bit and disapprovingly to the Rosalie bit. She is hot, that is a fact, it's also the problem with her. This is the man who suggested Jacob get Bella pregnant since she wants a child so badly, jealousy is not on Edward's radar in any conventional way.

The most adverse reaction I can imagine is an angsty "Yes, we are all beautiful in this family... BECAUSE WE ARE MONSTERS".

[darkcrowprincess]

Good the hate is mutal. Like let me cry crocodile tears as I play the world's smallest violin 🎻. It truly is the end of the world that lsd Mormon rich white lady hates me.

If she hates you take it as a compliment.

smeyer would hate your ass

[simsim54]

Jacob: I made this shell bracelet for you. Edward: You know, l'm not really a jewelry person. Jacob: You don't have to wear it. Edward: No. I'm gonna wear it forever. Back off.

[ceruleanwhore]

Maybe it’s because of the election, but I’ve been thinking about Twilight recently and, more specifically, how it works as a conservative Christian romance story and how it has to be the way it is in order to be that type of story. What I mean is that, even though any other character could have had a healthier relationship with Bella, Edward had to be the main love interest that she ends up with and their relationship had to be the way it was. This is due to the fact that, the story is really about damnation and salvation and Meyer’s vampires are more of a secular representation of fallen angels than they are true vampires. Thus, Edward’s resistance to temptation has to be at the forefront of the narrative right alongside Bella’s compassion and persistent insistence that the Cullens are not inherently evil.

Along with this is how, for the sake of conservative gender roles and relationship dynamics, Edward has to be the way he is as a character. Since the whole point of Bella’s character is that she’s pure and, along with that, naive, but also draws strength from womanly things like her love and compassion, Edward then has to be in the conservative male role that is her counterpart which makes him her protector. If she’s constantly rushing into danger head first because she just loves everyone so much and cares so much but she’s the weak human who can only ever be a victim of violence and can’t fight back, then he has to protect her not just from these external threats to her safety but also from herself. We have to have this dynamic where she doesn’t know anything, and doesn’t know just how much she doesn’t know, and keeps throwing herself in danger that he either has to deliver her from or prevent her from getting into in the first place. 

She’s desirable to him because she’s so pure and, by extent, naive, and yet, because she is that way, he has to protect her from everyone else and also herself. This is exactly why we also get Meyer romanticizing this very toxic relationship in which he has no respect for Bella and never listens to her or anything, because that is what conservative relationships look like and, moreover, it’s what they’re supposed to look like. When your gender/relationship roles boil down to ‘pure innocent housewife’ and ‘protector’, you get Edward and Bella, and all of the shitty behavior the men do in those relationships gets excused because he’s only being shitty/abusive/traumatizing her because he loves her and is protecting her. With Edward and Bella, this protection and the things he’s protecting her from are readily apparent and easily understood, so it’s easy for the narrative and the audience to excuse his shitty actions because the correlation with her safety is right there. 

This is how we can have the debate around Bella’s pregnancy in the book with Edward insisting she have Carlisle perform an abortion without him being presented as an evil baby killer since his view of himself and his progeny as an inherently evil threat to Bella is noble and justified. In the end, the entire story works because Bella is justified. The Cullens aren’t evil, her baby isn’t a monster, Edward isn’t damned, so it’s okay for her to have this dhampir child and be turned into a vampire herself, regardless of what literal horrors she went through getting there. Then, even though Edward’s misgivings prove to be wrong, we can forgive him for thinking those things because of the literal horror she goes through and how clear it is why he had that perspective. Him wanting her to get an abortion is a take that makes sense, but it’s wrong and Bella proves it wrong by becoming a perfect, supernatural supermodel of a mother to a divine baby and he is happy to be proven wrong and end up with both his wife and child at the end.

Bella’s pregnancy is also crucial to this story because her making that perfect child with Edward is exactly what Meyer needed to do in order to justify Bella’s perspective that vampires aren’t actually monsters or inherently evil or anything. They needed to get married, have sex, and specifically have that sex lead to this pregnancy in order for their relationship to work in the story. Without it, the argument over Bella wanting to be turned never would’ve ended and, if she were turned, it wouldn’t have been as irrefutably good for her and the Cullens and everyone else, but, rather, we the audience would still have doubts around whether or not this is a good idea. By making vampirism her salvation without any of the messiness we saw with other characters like Rosalie, it solidly proves her point, shuts down Edward’s resistance, and elevates the whole Cullen family, solidifying the fantasy.

It was equally important that she be gifted and, specifically, that she have exactly the gift she did. Beyond the gender roles of it all and how a conervative fantasy benefits from giving the female lead (who’s also a new mother) these superpowers of self control and protection, it’s also important for the same reasons as what I was just talking about with the birth of her child. If she produced this perfect, divine child with Edward and in the process was turned into a vampire, and if that process empowered her to care for and protect her child as well as giving her the necessary restraint to protect the sanctity of human life, then vampirism can’t possibly be evil. This is also why I think it’s important that the various characters in this series have the superpowers they do. It’s no accident that, among the Cullens, Alice can see the future (helps her protect others), Jasper can feel and influence others emotions (makes him more empathetic and helps protect others), and Edward can read minds (helps him protect others, also explains his controlling behavior since he can’t read Bella’s mind). 

On the other hand, Jane and Alec have abilities that literally just torture people and can serve no other purpose while other members of the Volturi have abilities that are less inherently harmful and it really all depends on what the characters’ roles are in the story. Aro can go either way because he isn’t really supposed to just be a villain, but Jane and Alec are supposed to be viewed as more purely antagonistic so their powers reflect that, and the Cullens use their powers just to protect people. Edward’s mind reading ability is fucking terrifying, especially when combined with his shitty personality, but we the audience are supposed to view it as a good thing, a tool he uses to protect the people he loves that we, the readers, also care about. 

Bella being his one blind spot in addition to being such a temptation for him and also being so dangerously rash and naive is very important for this story because that’s such a huge part of what excuses his terrible behavior in the narrative. If he’s being a controlling asshole, it’s because he cares so much about her, but also because he has to overcompensate for her being the one singular blind spot his supernatural, superhuman self has. As always, it comes down to protecting her, but when he is this overpowered superhuman, the narrative then needs a way to handicap him specifically when it comes to her for the sole purpose of making him act the way he does and justifying it.

So yeah, that’s really the whole point of Twilight, is turning a cishet relationship with a shitty conservative man into an alluring fantasy, which is exactly why Edward has to be the way he is and Bella has to end up with him. The white supremacy of this conservative Christian lens is also why Jacob had to not be white, be angry and violent, literally turn into an animal sometimes, and never actually had a chance of ending up with Bella. He did need to be there, though, just to serve as a juxtaposition to Edward and then to revere their divine child, serving somewhat of a Mary Magdalene role with Renesmee as Jesus, which solidifies Bella’s Mary role as the teen mom of some divine miracle baby that wasn’t supposed to be physically possible and Edwards role as Joseph, in which he has his doubts but, in the end, supports and protects his wife and child. What you end up with is a story about conservative values and relationships in which our main character, Bella Swan, is continually disrespected and mistreated by her partner, who btw is far more powerful than her until they get married and she has his child, and all of this is romanticized. Bella's happiness and wellbeing don't really matter, what matters is that they ended up with that picture perfect Utah family like we are all supposed to have.

[queenofglassbeliever]

Rosalie says she never loved Edward as anything more than a brother, but is mad when he shows no romantic interest in her.

She gets jealous when he shows an interest in Bella even though at this point she's been with Emmett for about 70 years.

She hates being a vampire, would rather have died, yet she asks Carlisle to turn a dying Emmett for her.

When asked by Edward what she would do if she were in Bella's position and Emmett in his, Rosalie can't give a clear answer. Some part of Rosalie would give up Emmett for a human life.

Rose has very little regard for human life. She only cares about the romanticized human life she lost.

She's about respecting choices, but only if it's a choice she agrees with. Rosalie supports Bella's choice to go through with the pregnancy, but only because it's something she would have personally done. Up until then, Rose has shown very little respect or care for Bella's choices. She tries to dissuade Bella, but never tries to understand Bella's POV.

I love Rosalie, but Smeyer made her so selfish and contradictory that loving her is really hard sometimes.