#anti Bella Swan

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

Would Bella ever feel jealous that Jacob who used to think *she* was the most amazing now feels that way towards her kid?

The thing about Bella, is that once she decided imprinting was cool, she was completely gung-ho about it. To her, Jacob just occupies a different place in Renesmee's life. And yes, he'll be her best friend, her babysitter, her brother, her lover someday, but that's just what being an imprint means. Bella gets to occupy the role of "mother" that Jacob can never quite touch.

And that's just the "would she be jealous of Jacob's relationship with her daughter" and not the other way around.

But we don't see that in canon. Once Bella's on board, she thinks it's great and amazing that Renesmee is the most important person in the world to Jacob. It's, in fact, kind of relieving/a sign that the universe is in zen because guess who's magically not in an uncomfortable love triangle anymore! This even explains why Jacob liked her so much even though she's soulmates with Edward, obviously that was because he was going to be soulmates with her and Edward's offspring.

"I'm so glad the world makes perfect sense" - Bella Swan.

Bella genuinely barely seems to notice or mind that Jacob spends every minute of every day that he can with Renesmee. She, in fact, encourages this by not saying anything/being pleased as punch when Jacob... gets Renesmee... an engagement bracelet for Christmas...

What matters to Bella is that everyone fits happily together with who they are supposed to and that Jacob remains happily in her life/is no longer upset about the vampire thing.

[sailoreuterpe]

Just wanted to say your ask to panlight about Bella and everyone suffering except her, was spot on and you've listed everything that annoys me about her and her choices.

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking that!

👋🏻 hope you're having a good day!

Thank you so much! I genuinely enjoy when other readers analysis and headcanon the series into something more equal and fair. However, as presented, I just don't see Bella as this uniquely kind and selfless person. Depressed and inert, sure. However, in my opinion, there is a significant difference between kindness because of genuine altruism and "kindness" because of martyrdom or self-loathing. I'm speaking from unfortunate personal experience.

As well, as I listed, so many of Bella choices are only difficult or sacrificial for her in the short term. Yes, she suffers pain from choosing Edward when James targets her, but within two years she's a fabulous vampire with everything she ever wanted. Same with choosing to go to Italy, choosing to have Nessie, etc. Whereas Leah, Rose, and so many others not only never even had a choice, but then they get to suffer continually. Leah will always miss her father, Rose will always long for children and live with her trauma, and so on.

It's especially aggravating when others suffer because of Bella's choices. Bella chooses Edward; Jacob forcefully imprints on Nessie, where neither of them actually have a choice. Bella chooses to run to Edward in New Moon; the entire Cullen clan is now on the Volturi's hit list. Bella chooses to reunite with Edward and the Cullens; Victoria creates a newborn army which kills dozens of young people and causes the shifters to transform. Bella chooses the vampires over the shifters and demands that Edward sit out the fight; the other combatants are in more danger and Jacob gets hurt. Bella chooses to have Nessie; the shifters get pulled into a supernatural war and transformed against their will.

Yes, so much of that isn't directly Bella's fault. However, Bella spends very little time thinking of any consequences for herself, let alone anyone else. She's willing to die to be with Edward, her parents be damned. She's willing to put so many others into danger to be with Edward, this "good" character we're supposed to champion. She's even willing to die with Edward against the Volturi, after an entire book praising what an amazing mother she is. Having a baby doesn't make you a mother; being a parent does, and honestly Rose and Jacob are more of Nessie's parents than Bella and Edward.

As someone who cares about all of the characters, I just don't see Bella as the heroine or the story as fair. Bella actively, consistently choses Edward over all other things (and all other people). The narrative rewards her decisions (that are pretty fucking selfish and terrible across the board) by giving her her every dream come true and her "perfect piece of forever." Everyone else has to make due with Bella's crumbs.

Some choice.

[theinheriteddutchess]

Oh, ooohhh, the excruciating painful memory of, *checks notes* fishing in the summer.

She actively blocks having fun with family friends she's seen several times in her life (in this case her dad's best friend!), because it's so unnecessary...

I forgot what a horrible person she is. Like I knew, but rereading the first chapter (it's been only 3 pages!!) And no it's even worse. I almost felt like I was being mean or overexaggerated, but no.. she insufferable.

Even if she hates fishing, she could played with Billy's kids, read a book, swim, sleep whatever, but the fact that they hung out together was apparently painful.

Bella has no fun, hates fun, and most of all is above all others who have fun. This is not a person you'd enjoy being around.

[coffeebooksrain18]

i see you make moodboards for twilight, are you a twilight fan😍😍pleeeeaaase give me all your twilight opinions!!!

Ooooh! Never been asked about Twilight yet!

Firstly I hate Edward, Team Jacob all the way but I'm mostly a Jacob deserved better team.

Hate Edward and Hate Bella because...Jesus those tow suck. Edward is a stalker which is gross, he also believes he's better than other vamps cause he drinks animals instead of Humans even though he forgets many probably were never taught this was a option or even knew or thought it was a option.

Then there's Bella...where do I start? She's a mage bitch. She's always worried how others think of her and her looks and then instantly judge anyone she meets and how they look or act. Also she used Jake when Edward left, made him think there was a chance even though there wasn't and she knew that.

I LOVE Rose! Yeah she's a bitch too but you at least can understand why unlike Bella. All of the Cullans traumas are fleshed out and interesting and you understand why they act the way they do, except Edward. It really felt like Stef didn't want to flesh his out more or else she knew we'd HATE him.

Also I'm not a active part in the fandom, I read fics from time to time but I don't make posts lol.

Thanks for the ask Anon!

[restinslices]

(I swear to y’all, imma go back to Mortal Kombat. But I have to rant. Imma pretend it’s the early 2000s and rant about Twilight. If you’re pro any of the Cullens, don’t even read this)

I’m not saying Jacob should’ve kissed Bella, but my thing is this; Jacob kisses you and you call him a dog and say you hope Edward kills him. Edward has done foul shit the ENTIRE SERIES and you let him slide repeatedly. There’s this part where Bella gets mad and says something like “at least Edward an act like an adult”. Bitch. He IS AN ADULT. What do you mean? Bella is way more harsh when it comes to Jacob and I don’t get why she holds so much anger towards this child and holds him to this high standard but has none of these feelings when it comes to the old ass adult she’s with. Since I’m typing, Stephanie Myers is weird and idc what y’all say. I remember Bella described Leah as beautiful in an EXOTIC way. MA’AM? It feels like she realized how asshole-ish the Cullens are and tried to make the wolves seem worse but all I’m thinking is “they’re definitely in the right when it comes to not liking the Cullens”.

The wolves don’t like vampires because they’re a safety risk. The Cullens being there (keep in mind, they’re rich enough to leave and never come back) is triggering these young ass people to turn into wolves. The Cullens don’t like the wolves because?? They have no valid reason. Edward constantly says the wolves are dangerous and yeah, they’re not the safest to be around but compared to vampires they’re a lot safer. Bella has only been harmed by vampires and only the vampires have tried to end her life. James, Laurent, Jasper, Victoria, the new born army that’s forming, the Volturi. She’s only been in danger because of the wolves once. Like, I don’t get how Stephanie expects us to agree with Edward when there’s proof that the wolves are way safer. Not 100% safe but better than vampires. And while I love Seth, I swear Seth is the “you’re not like the others” character. They only like Seth because he doesn’t hold animosity towards them as if that animosity isn’t valid. It’s giving “you’re not like other blacks, you talk proper” (ik he’s not black, it’s an example). I’m finishing the books because I’m too deep to quit but I wish they let Victoria finish the job.

[magicianpanache]

Who is Renée Dwyer ?

Who is Renée Dwyer ? Bella seems to have a pretty positive opinion of her. She's slightly condescending, and a bit insecure, but overall Bella seems to really love her. However, let's be honest here, Bella is a terrible judge of character, so I wanted to explore her a little.

Most people seem to have one of two views of Renee

A well meaning woman who got pregnant too soon but did her best. Things weren't perfect, but she tried to encourage Bella to try new things.

After all, she seems to really care about Bella. She's frantic when she goes to see her in the hospital in Twilight, they seem to have a good relationship... In fact, Bella doesn't seem to resent her in the least.

She signs up Bella for ballet, and accepts that Bella doesn't like it and lets her drop it, which suggests she respects Bella's opinion.

2. A neglectful woman who shouldn't have gotten custody, emotionally abusive and narcissistic

Why would I think that ? Bella cooks too well for a seventeen year old and seems to have been responsible for paying the bills for a while.

Most egregiously, Bella knows the last words her mom told her dad before leaving. Why, in God's name does she know that ? It screams enmeshment and parentification on Renée's part.

Where do you stand ?

[threebooksoneplot]

Was just catching up on the pod and had to chime in on ep 29. I think it’s a little unfair to say that Bella is being over the top in her depression era. Yes she is sad about Edward leaving but it goes deeper than that: it wasn’t just a boyfriend she was losing.

She is an only child with an immature, selfish mom and a dad that, while nice enough, hardly knows her. The Cullens are a large, cohesive, loving family and she wanted to join them badly. Also, now that she knows that the supernatural exists, she wants to be a part of that world badly and losing Edward also meant losing her chance at immortality. She didn't just lose a boyfriend, she lost the best possible version of her life.

Bella's depression is always going to be a hot topic, trust me bestie. G has talked pretty decently in-show about how Bella lost her entire support system. that's 100% true: she put all her eggs in one vampire-shaped basket, went full tunnel-vision when it came to edward, and only focused on that for 6+ months. but imo it's unfair to point toward charlie and renee (don't worry, I'll get into that) and shuffle responsibility onto them for the way bella spirals after edward/the cullens depart, leaving her with some vague yearning for a loving family (which, tbh, I'm not sure I see supported in canon in any way?)

friend I am so sorry to break it to you but the podcast jokes about stanning renee are not a bit. I (shannon) will always come to the defense of my girl renee dwyer because of how severely she's been mischaracterized by fandom at large. I won't get into it too deeply (me when I lie) because I really could go on all day but bella's parents being distant to the plot they way they both are is 100% by design. it's the whole Disney Mom Effect. when your character is designed to go off on adventures and have a fantastical journey, you sort of end up killing the mom (or at least one parent) so that there's more of that push for the main character to go out and make their own life! woo! enjoy your magical journey! but if you have a mom that is thoughtful, super-involved, ever-present, and/or ahem, alive, that fucks with the plans. renee isn't some neglectful monster who abandoned her daughter to go spend weekends in miami. charlie isn't some dumb sitcom dad who weaponizes incompetence to get free meals. they both love, care about, and worry for bella the way a normal parent would (and we see this in canon). now, smeyer didn't kill either of them, but honestly she pulled off charlie and renee's characters really well imo!

anyways, I agree that losing a vampire boyfriend that could have offered you infinite money or eternal life is a big L, no matter what. but the thing is, bella doesn't care about either of those things. she doesn't care about anything beyond Being With Edward (and Alice, to a lesser extent). the vampirism and cullens are a bonus perk, but she only focuses on edward. that's why we're always going to clown on her "throbbing" holes and her boring nightmares. sure, I feel bad about her complete lack of self-esteem and her self-destructive streak, but it's so hard to feel bad for her when the way she thinks about and acts toward non-cullen characters is like, uh... not great. so I am very sorry to you and the whole of your defense squad, and I wish you the best in your journey, but I don't think we'll ever NOT roll our eyes at Bella's behavior in this book 💔😔—shannon

^ me (G) reading shannon's answer to this

I mostly agree (except for the part about pulling off charlie's and renee's characters well. idk if I'd go THAT far.) the tl;dr for me is that I understand why many people find bella (particularly in her depression era) relatable, and I entered into this reading hoping (and even lowkey expecting) that I too would come away with more appreciation for her character, but I....did not. the opposite happened. that's my truth and if it makes me a hater, I'm a hater ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ —G

[thecarnivorousmuffinart]

Bella Swan from Twilight as a shojou anime protagonist who just wants senpai to notice her.

[violet-phoenix-nebula]

So, this is apparently gonna be harder than I thought.

I'm looking for pre-canon, non-pairing vampire-Carlisle fanfics.

I know someone has to have written the centuries so many of us are interested in of Carlisle's life pre Twilight canon. So I'm on the hunt for some.

[darkcrowprincess]

Bella I hate you a lot. Especially because of the stress you constantly cause Charlie. And you still willingly chose to be a vampire! Tbis guy loves you. And you still do this to him.

Do you think he started doing it again in new moon? Do you think he ever stopped?

[thecarnivorousmuffinmeta]

Hi👋

Why does Bella refuse to remember and/or admit that Ed intentionally killed and ate people? It is mentioned, he told her about it, but she shows no fear, no disapproval, nothing at all. Why?

I mean, she does neither of those things.

She both remembers he did this, admits it, she just doesn't care/doesn't think it concerns her or is all that concerning of a thing.

Edward tells her about this in great angst, the years he... gave into temptation, expecting her to run out the door (as he expected her to with many of the things he admits) and she goes "wow, that's a story" and then Edward decides he is not going to push his luck here.

See, Edward's long since in his redemption arc. He doesn't eat people anymore, see. And even when he did, being a vampire and not eating people is really hard and Bella understands that. And Edward at least tried to only eat bad people, so that's points for something, right?

Though to give Bella credit, Edward tells this story himself in the kindest way to himself he possibly could. He doesn't go into details, he doesn't list exact numbers/is very vague about the... many people it was, he insists his victims were all bad and does admit "but I do realize this was wrong and made me just as terrible" and he very quickly moves past it. And Bella is not partial, she wants to love Edward, and so she wants to frame everything he says as being wonderful/good/or at least not that bad.

What Edward describes is safely decades in the past, it was only regarding 'bad' people, it sounds like vampire thirst is really hard and Edward's family is very impressive for sticking to it so she decides it's not something that should worry her.

As it is, Bella is... perhaps a bit too understanding of any vampire that eats people throughout the series as sure, she prefers if people do it the Cullen way, and thinks the Volturi are deplorable for their tourist eating scheme, but she has 0 problem with the many vampires that show up in Breaking Dawn and sure do eat a lot of people.

Not to mention the time she asks why the Cullens even bother not to eat people if it's so difficult and unrewarding and Edward just... stares at her.

The thing about Bella that can be a good thing or a bad thing (but is couched in the series as a good thing always) is that she's very accepting of people on a personal level if she likes them. As such, Bella's friends and family are forgiven their every flaw, not limited to eating people, and people Bella doesn't like are... not forgiven for that time they went on a terrible movie outing together that was entirely Bella's fault.

And I do have to increasingly wonder...

How many of you anons just watched the movies? Because a good number of you show up with questions that are very much addressed in the books but just get weird one-off lines or are never explained in the films.

[theinheriteddutchess]

And we're back to hating her.

There is no reason why bella is calling him Charlie behind his back.

"I wasn't allowed", bullshit, Charlie would be hurt but he wouldn't force her to call him anything. This man barely saw his daughter because her mother took her away, and bella refused to visit him after a while and made him travel to spend 2 weeks in the summer with her somewhere else. Charlie is clearly happy to have her live with him and he awkwardly tries to make her comfortable.

No bella, you call him dad to his face because you know it makes you a mean girl if you don't. You knew it would hurt him and of course you can't imagine you're someone who would willingly and knowingly hurt someone else, even if you are, so you fake it to his face and disrespect him any other time.

This man did nothing to you. This man was sidelined by you and your mother, and now you think you're edgy to call him Charlie, but you're dumb selfish mother is your best friend.

Well you yourself said you look like you're mother... it's just not in a positive way. (And also, is you're mother you're best friend because you have that weird unhealthy dynamic going on, or because you don't seem to have any other friends?!)

[therealvinelle]

Would Edward be jealous if he knew that Bella thought Carlisle and Rosalie were hot hot hot?

It's factually correct they are hot hot hot, I imagine he'd nod approvingly to the Carlisle bit and disapprovingly to the Rosalie bit. She is hot, that is a fact, it's also the problem with her. This is the man who suggested Jacob get Bella pregnant since she wants a child so badly, jealousy is not on Edward's radar in any conventional way.

The most adverse reaction I can imagine is an angsty "Yes, we are all beautiful in this family... BECAUSE WE ARE MONSTERS".

[theinheriteddutchess]

(like I said I couldn't find this and thought I lost it, but had it opened somewhere else and only found it today, I hate this, sorry)

You're right about her kindness is more forced and mentioned by others, than what we really witness about her. Especially hearing everything from her herself. She doesn't seem like a kind and selfless person. Guilt can definitely play into this, or assigned roles. And Bella's self worth is little, she died what she needs to. But I noticed any pity or sympathy she has is so fleeting. Genuine care is hard to find.

Again everything is such a fleeting thought or experience, any sacrifices or consequences are mostly left to the others, or ignored. Everything's glossed over. Even her depression and abandonment issues, becoming a skeleton giving birth. Like it doesn't matter. And though there's pain there, it's self inflicted or chosen. And it's not really mentioned. It's seen as heroic or something? But all these choices still circle around her admiration of Edward? She seems to want to do anything for him, or be connected to him. But again, that is still her deciding to do that.

Edward is equally selfish. The Volturi thing was completely their fault. And everyone had to participate or lose a loved one (or several). Jacob conveniently imprinting on a species he hated and is his natural enemy. He had no choice, and now the whole wolfpack had to help them. How useful for Bella.

Oh god yes, everyone goes to fight the enemy they created, and yet Bella and Edward are saved away from the fight, even though Edward, mind reader, could be useful there and keep them safe. This was so selfish. She doesn't really care about anyone else's lives. And that can happen, but she insists to be part of their lives or make decisions that affect them.

Bella is not comfortable with her army killing people perse, but it's her daughter, so it'll have to do... All those lives, just for one hybrid child. They could have chosen to gather in another country..but no, because they're comfortable in a fancy house. Nessie loves and she's happy.... But the ones who died are forgotten.

Being in love doesn't excuse throwing others under the bus. The way she treated her father for example. I feel that she sees people as exposable and Edward mattered because she wanted him. Indeed rose and Jake were raising that kid and would die for her and her well being, Bella had this fantasy about her kid, aka mini Edward. And still prioritized sex with Edward. Notice how she organized Jacob and Nessie escaping but she and Edward are doing to die together because they can't be apart.

She's not solely responsible and circumstances were difficult, but it's her way of thinking and acting that puts me off. She doesn't need to be perfect, but she's presented as unproblematic and wise and I didn't see that. She had flaws that are focused on that are supposed to make her imperfect, but they're not that bad, but the underlying flaws, the ones that cause these things to happen, are ignored. And those are her real flaws.

Everyone could die there, except Nessie... Which could be seen as a mother's decision... But I'm just thinking of all of them who would die.... And Bella was willing to risk that. Their lives aren't important.

Your past part is just exactly it. Her happy end, ends everyone else's.

I don't know why anyone would even want to be her friend or feel they can depend on her. You know she will never look after you if it means any inconvenience to her or her husband.

Just wanted to say your ask to panlight about Bella and everyone suffering except her, was spot on and you've listed everything that annoys me about her and her choices.

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking that!

👋🏻 hope you're having a good day!

Thank you so much! I genuinely enjoy when other readers analysis and headcanon the series into something more equal and fair. However, as presented, I just don't see Bella as this uniquely kind and selfless person. Depressed and inert, sure. However, in my opinion, there is a significant difference between kindness because of genuine altruism and "kindness" because of martyrdom or self-loathing. I'm speaking from unfortunate personal experience.

As well, as I listed, so many of Bella choices are only difficult or sacrificial for her in the short term. Yes, she suffers pain from choosing Edward when James targets her, but within two years she's a fabulous vampire with everything she ever wanted. Same with choosing to go to Italy, choosing to have Nessie, etc. Whereas Leah, Rose, and so many others not only never even had a choice, but then they get to suffer continually. Leah will always miss her father, Rose will always long for children and live with her trauma, and so on.

It's especially aggravating when others suffer because of Bella's choices. Bella chooses Edward; Jacob forcefully imprints on Nessie, where neither of them actually have a choice. Bella chooses to run to Edward in New Moon; the entire Cullen clan is now on the Volturi's hit list. Bella chooses to reunite with Edward and the Cullens; Victoria creates a newborn army which kills dozens of young people and causes the shifters to transform. Bella chooses the vampires over the shifters and demands that Edward sit out the fight; the other combatants are in more danger and Jacob gets hurt. Bella chooses to have Nessie; the shifters get pulled into a supernatural war and transformed against their will.

Yes, so much of that isn't directly Bella's fault. However, Bella spends very little time thinking of any consequences for herself, let alone anyone else. She's willing to die to be with Edward, her parents be damned. She's willing to put so many others into danger to be with Edward, this "good" character we're supposed to champion. She's even willing to die with Edward against the Volturi, after an entire book praising what an amazing mother she is. Having a baby doesn't make you a mother; being a parent does, and honestly Rose and Jacob are more of Nessie's parents than Bella and Edward.

As someone who cares about all of the characters, I just don't see Bella as the heroine or the story as fair. Bella actively, consistently choses Edward over all other things (and all other people). The narrative rewards her decisions (that are pretty fucking selfish and terrible across the board) by giving her her every dream come true and her "perfect piece of forever." Everyone else has to make due with Bella's crumbs.

Some choice.

[simsim54]

Edward: Black. Jacob: *overhears* Edward: Black? Jacob: *about to speak up* Edward: No, Cullen-Black? Edward: Jacob Cullen Or Edward Black Jacob: *from around a corner* Edward Cullen sounds much better if I do say so myself. Edward: How much of that did you hear? Jacob: *walks out* or you and I could be Cullen-Black. But I think we should plan this once we start dating Edward: Are you asking me out? Jacob: I don't know Mr. Cullen-Black, am I?

[queenofglassbeliever]

Rosalie says she never loved Edward as anything more than a brother, but is mad when he shows no romantic interest in her.

She gets jealous when he shows an interest in Bella even though at this point she's been with Emmett for about 70 years.

She hates being a vampire, would rather have died, yet she asks Carlisle to turn a dying Emmett for her.

When asked by Edward what she would do if she were in Bella's position and Emmett in his, Rosalie can't give a clear answer. Some part of Rosalie would give up Emmett for a human life.

Rose has very little regard for human life. She only cares about the romanticized human life she lost.

She's about respecting choices, but only if it's a choice she agrees with. Rosalie supports Bella's choice to go through with the pregnancy, but only because it's something she would have personally done. Up until then, Rose has shown very little respect or care for Bella's choices. She tries to dissuade Bella, but never tries to understand Bella's POV.

I love Rosalie, but Smeyer made her so selfish and contradictory that loving her is really hard sometimes.