#and using twink negatively

[vvitchy]

why are so many young people online obsessed with calling lgbt people fruits it’s one of my biggest pet peeves

[somewhatgayerthanistypicalfurina]

Tbh the way people on this website(/presumably other websites too but this is the one on which I see strangers opinions most often) talk about twinks soooooo derogatorily really Does make me super uncomfortable. It feels really homophobic in a way I haven't been able to nail down precisely

But just like. Always using twink as a derogatory thing and undesirable both to be or to want. Not really outright saying twinks aren't real men but IMPLYING it through comparisons to Real Men that are Big and Strong And Hairy. Like okay? You want big muscle men? You and every mainstream media in existence...? Why are people pretending that hating twinks is subversive. Why are people pretending that twinks are widely seen as the best sort of man.

And like it's EXPECTED for men to be able to grow lots of body hair and to get lots of muscle and be thick and sturdy and strong. And men are shamed for not being hairy enough and they are shamed for being twiggy and WHY are you doing it MORE but using gay words. Saying bears are sooooooo great but twinks are sooooo icky doesn't magically make you Not body shaming a group of people for Exactly The Reasons They Are Already Bodyshamed

Idk. Bwah. This isn't even me being firsthand butthurt bc I don't actually think I would be seen as a twink? But I am so tired of feeling like a fake gay and looked down on for not really being very into the typical male beauty standards

[dysaniadisorder]

i am so sick of all in-community homophobia & transphobia being blamed on teenagers shut the fuck up i was raised by a butch woman do u know the amount of 25-year-olds who have claimed to be elders and told me not to use neos or say the word queer. a lot ok

[teeskzagain]

Anonymous asked:

so i’ve been thinking about how people think san’s a bit scary and intimidating while he’s an absolute sweetheart on the inside. imagine dating him and everyone around you being a bit intimidated by him, thinking he’s a rough guy and even being slightly worried…

what they don’t know is that you have him wrapped around your finger, that he’d worship the floor you walk on and that he’d simply do everything just to see you smile.

i wonder how this would translate into situations in the bedroom 🙂‍↔️

also!! i hope you get account back soon 💗

no because let’s talk about it!! the duality of choi san is actually INSANE (like his twink era??) mans could go from radiating dom energy out in public but once those doors close??? oh he would be ON HIS KNEES FOR YOU 🙌 whew, i’m in lofe with this scenario

and thank you for that, you’re too sweet🤍

wc: 3k

warnings: face riding, neck kissing, praises, dry humping (san cumming in his underwear) a shit ton of dirty talk, use of nicknames: baby, sweetie, sannie, 18+ MDNI

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starting now, you make the executive decision that absolutely no one is meant to truly understand the relationship between you and your boyfriend, choi san. this is proven true at the formal get together you and him were currently attending, with your two friends making him a topic of conversation on numerous occasions.

like, at this moment.

“just look at him,” yena gawks from across the room, cup swirling in her hand, “i don’t know how you even had the balls to go up to him…”

“let alone date him.” suiji finishes as she eyes your boyfriend up and down. he’s currently standing stoically in the corner, chatting up the birthday boy, kang yeosang. your lips curl fondly at the interaction, knowing well just how excited san was about seeing yeosang this evening.

you allow their little comments to resonate in the air before giving your two friends a look and then a soft laugh, “how come you guys say this every time we go out?”

“because it’s still insane!” yena throws an arm out as if to prove her disbelief, “how can you not just shrink under his gaze?”

suiji does a dramatic shudder at the remnants of his presence, “i’m serious y/n, he’s so scary looking.”

“there’s no problems with the relationship, right? anything i need to know? are you feeling safe?” yena’s rapid fire of questions and sudden concern makes you want to roll your eyes straight out of their sockets.

it’s been four months of dating san at this point, and one would have thought that the acceptance stage surely should’ve passed by now. however, for some reason, these two just can’t fathom the idea that choi san is ‘datable’. actually. it’s not just them, but the general public appears to fear san like some sort of bad omen. from the barista at your local coffee shop, to your favorite cashier at the grocery store; somehow, this negative stigma seemed to have developed around your poor, clueless boyfriend.

they should all be ashamed of themselves, you think with a frown, almost about ready to scold the girls when the tall, broad man himself waltzes straight into your circle. the way yena and suiji immediately clasps their lips shut at his entrance, you want to laugh, but quickly are captivated by your boyfriend who’s stopping right in front of you.

“baby…” his voice starts off somber and low, and he regards you with an expression that’s seemingly all too familiar, “it’s time to go.”

hmm? instinctively, your head tilts slightly as you sport confusion, “already? but, weren’t you just talking with-”

“y/n. let’s go.” he’s firmer in his tone, a hard face planted on. you blink before giving him an understanding head nod. you understood quite well what his authoritative stature indicated, essentially making it pointless to argue back with him.

when san whips around towards the girls, ready to begin your goodbyes, they seemed to have crowded together out of fright. the slender, narrow eyes that have proven to instill fear glower onto yena and suiji and you’re almost positive you see one of them trembling. oh, please.

“i’m sorry to cut the pleasantries so short, but it’s getting late for us. we’ll see you around though?” he quips off the question with an eyebrow raise, and by now you’ve huddled closer to him.

yena could only stumble out, “y-yeah, see ya later.” while suiji waved him away frantically, both trying their damndest to avoid eye contact with him.

he takes off while you offer your own smile and a curt wave. and even as you happily catch up behind the brooding man, your two friends are still left puzzled as to what exactly it is you see in him. both you and san make a few more rounds of goodbyes, some of the guests sharing their own inquisitive gaze at the impassive male in comparison to your gleeful smile. but neither of you paid attention to that.

no, the only thing present in the two of you’s minds was the anticipation of what was going to happen later tonight. like for when you step foot into your apartment approximately 10 minutes later, his eyes glossy as they tediously watch you, with yours trailing the outline of his delicious outfit.

the car ride over had been filled to the brim with unspoken thoughts, asses shifting and squirming in their seats, and a swirl of low breaths emitted by you two. san’s never been one to demand control over the relationship, him hardly every seeing the need to command anything out of you. he’s always been perfectly contempt with you taking the reigns while he sits back and enjoys.

and you were well aware of that.

but in a moment like that, a circumstance where his head became heavily engrossed with conceptions of you, well, he couldn’t help if a more stern tone slipped out of him. he just had to get you to recognize what it was he was yearning for. what it is he needs from you.

“sannie..” your head’s tilted down so you can peer up at him through your eyelashes, making a slow trek towards him as he stood idly in the living room, “are you in a mood?”

in a matter of seconds, you can physically see the changes your boyfriend has. his usual, cold face soon melting into an intense cry of plea. of course you knew the answer. you can read him like book by now.

you stop in front of his body, a hand pressing into his chest while the other raises to graze the side of his face, “oh, you poor thing. i know it must’ve been difficult at the party for you.”

as if you’re a magnet, once you let up on san, your hand dropping to his arm, his head shoots down into the exposed part of your neck. he’s feverish in the way he immediately starts to kiss on your skin, with in between pecks he starts to speak.

“fu-uck…,” he lands a rather large kiss smack dab in the middle of your throat which leads you to buzz out a soft whimper, “i couldn’t stop thinking about you.”

he travels around your sternum, making sure to mark up any unclaimed spots, “couldn’t stop picturing you…” he nips at your skin this time, “us getting home tonight and me making you cum so fucking hard.”

your eyes are fluttering from a combo of both his words and his lips, your hands moving on their own to explore the brawniness that is choi san, “yeah…is that right?”

he lets out a strained groan as he begins to work his way down to your cleavage, “ah- my cock’s throbbing so bad right now.” the words topple from his lips an octave higher than you’re used to, and it’s clear just how turned on he is. which in turn makes your own panties dampen at the realization.

“sannie…” you gasp, feeling his mouth trailing down the fabric of your dress with some of his spit sopping through, “you know- you have to please me first. me first, then i’ll take of you, sweetie.”

he’s on his knees for you by now, staring up at you with the biggest doe eyes you’ve ever seen on a man. your head droops to meet his gaze right as his hands grip the hem of your dress. he lifts it up past your hips, revealing your cotton underwear which sports a wet spot clear as day.

“i know. i know, baby. i’m gonna make you feel so good. don’t you worry.” he ducks his head in between your thighs in preparation for licking your pussy through the soft material, a motion he does in a clean swoop. it only amplifies the extreme sensation you’re experiencing, “you won’t have a single thought in your head when i’m done.”

your body stirrers at the contact, “oh! oh my god.”

san is absolutely in love with your reactions, watching and hearing how horny you are because of him. it fuels him. he repeats his licking action, this time stopping at the top of your cunt to suck on your sensitive bud. you register his saliva permeating through your underwear, a squelching sound now filling the air, and your face contorts.

“mmm, sannie i’m gonna ride your face,” your eyes are crinkled, no longer able to hold his eye contact, as involuntarily your hips buck against his head, “fuck. just wanna grind my pussy deep into your perfect face.”

he squeezes his lips around your skin. it doesn’t even matter to him how your harsh rocks causes his face to rock along side with you. he’s ravenous. hungry for you. eating you out like he’s been deprived of your sweet cunt for days.

after a low rumble, san guides a hand to your clothed sex and pushes away the fabric. swirling, lapping, fiending into your naked core, you’re hit with double the intensity than you had previously, and you nearly squeal. he circles his head all around your thick pussy, wanting to bury his face deeper into your skin, which makes your eyes roll back.

the direct stimulant makes you see stars, him taking in pieces of you within his mouth and supplying a great deal of pleasure to those areas. your own moans fight for dominance while san’s squishy munching competes for which noise is the loudest, yours gradually getting louder and higher the more he devours you.

“i feel close,” it comes out more breathlike as you interlock your fingers into his hair for balance, “fuck- fuck- i think i’m gonna cum soon.”

with that, san offers no mercy. he wants to see you cum, needs to feel your orgasm hit his face. he quickens his pace with his wet tongue, before moving into more swift and timely sucks. the mixture of stimulants has your eyelids glazing, and it doesn’t help how occasionally san would mewl straight into you. he finds this so incredibly arousing.

you dig your hips further into his nose, you full on grinding against him by now, and you can’t even think straight. everything is pushing you closer and closer and closer-

“shit! i’m cumming! i’m cumming!” when your boyfriend nicks that spot, that spot with his driven hunger solely focused on it, your orgasm rushes through your body and out of your cunt, you yelping aloud in the process. it spritzes and coats san in a spit/cum mix, his face becoming sickly wet as you draw out your blissful high.

not once does he move to detach himself. he eats you out all during the duration of your orgasm, and when you finally have the strength to look at san again, you see his large, puppy-esque eyes just entranced with you. he watched you cum all over his face, just like he wished to before.

at the end of it, your chest heaves up and down as you attempt a small smile for him. aside from the minor spasms, you had gained some sense of awareness again.

“i’m so proud of you. you made me feel good, just like you promised.” you speak with nothing but gratitude, your hand easing up the grip in san’s hair as you transfer it into a light stroke, “you ready to be taken care of now?”

he parts your cunt with spit strings attached, his lips and face utterly covered in your moisture. he looks about ready to combust on himself, the way his eyes are hazy and low, his breathing irregular, “i’m ready. need a release so bad, i can’t take it anymore.”

sweetly, you reach down to help him up, “i hear you. come on, let’s go to the room.”

you lead the way as he follows you back into the bedroom, you instantly ordering him to strip from his pants once inside, “since you did a such a great job, i wanna treat you to something.”

a look of relief washes over san’s face. while still in his underwear, you direct him towards the head of the bed frame as you hook your fingers on the band of your panties to slide them down and off your legs. you meet him on to the bed, and right off of the bat, you can see a noticeably large bulge, poking out the material of his dark blue briefs.

if someone were to mistaken the expanding wet spot as san just having came on himself, you wouldn’t be surprised. but your boyfriend produces large amounts of arousal on the regular, so this is nothing new for you. if anything, you can start to feel yourself get horny all over again.

when directly in front of him, you bring one knee over so you’re straddling him, your pelvis just barely hovering over his lap, “just sit back for me, okay?” you eye him sincerely, “im gonna take care of you.”

right as you start to lower yourself on to his covered length, a sharp inhale from san has you pausing briefly, “baby, i don’t know how long i’ll be able to last. feel like i’m gonna explode any second.”

with a tiny laugh, you continue downwards till you make contact with your core and his cock, “it’s okay. don’t want you holding back either, i want you to enjoy this.”

and just like that, you allow your cunt to spread flatly against his erection, then ever-so leisurely, you start to roll your hips. you purposely begin with a slow pace, wanting to build up the intensity as time progressed, and judging by the facial expressions he wears, this seems to do the trick for him as well. even through the sensitivity, you push through.

“i knew you’d like me rubbing myself against you,” your hand clashes with the headboard as you steady yourself, digging your core deeper into the hard surface, “you liked it when i grinded on your face, i just had to give your poor cock the same treatment.”

inaudible moans fall from san’s throat, him now throwing his head back on the board, “sh-shit. it feels so nice, too nice.”

“i can feel you twitching below me,” you hip, your eyes becoming more hooded by the second, “are you really that close to finishing?”

“nrgh- yes.” he groans and you can see his stomach begin to convulse, his panting growing more prominent within your ear.

at this prospect, you dish out a hushed mew yourself, fastening the thrusts into his own clothed sex. your pussy acts as a stimulant for san, sending blips of pleasure through his aching dick the more you continue your rubbing.

you make sure to work every section of his length, running and dragging your glistening pussy lips against his wet fabric. you’ve suctioned yourself so far into him, that right now, you can distinguish which is his base and which is the head of cock. your cunt does a slightly bump whenever you find yourself running against the tip.

it’s euphoric the pleasure he’s having right now. never having been this turned on before, he basks in the feeling brought upon by you. how you know just when to squeeze the right amount of pressure onto him, or when to simply grind faster and harder on to the cock that won’t make it for much longer.

leading you to a point of where you’re full blown humping san into oblivion. the creaky noises of the bed acts as evidence of your hard work, along with the not-so-subtle whimpers that he buzzes out every chance he gets. he’s lost in heaven.

“you’re gonna make me cum on myself,” he follows that up with a louder groan, “fucking- i’m so close to cumming, ’m so close.” he even tries to match your rhythm but even that prove to be difficult with just how mindless you’re about to leave him.

“let it all out, sannie. come on, i know you’re almost there.” you reply back with an equal amount of desperation in your voice.

a string of ‘please’ leaves his mouth, his eyebrows scrunched inward with his troubled face. he’s so far gone, he isn’t sure that he’ll even survive the orgasm he’s about to have. when you buck particularly hard into his sensitive head, a wave of pleasure hits him and his cock relinquishes his stored up cum.

“hmm, y/n- i’m cumming!” a guttural moan overtakes the room as san releases all over himself, and you, his underwear now soiled to a point of no return. his cum leaks through and even form to mix with your previous liquids. it awakens something within you and soon the feeling of his orgasm is causing a surprise one for yourself, your eyes vibrating and a whiny shriek spilling out.

you quiver harshly on top of your boyfriend as his body twitches sporadically, the two of you somewhat finishing in sync. a few spurts of your juices seep down into his briefs, vice versa for you, and then next thing you know you’re both catching your breaths after the intense session.

“you’re so fucking hot.” he murmurs, eyes dazed and throat bobbing, “left me soaking in my underwear.”

“i love you,” you whisper back as your bring your forehead to his, still relishing from your second orgasm tonight, “you’re so good for me.”

“i love you too, baby.”

see, many question what it is about your boyfriend that you love so much. in their eyes, he’s nothing more than a fearsome man, threatening the innocence of a poor, girl like you.

but if there’s one thing you could never deny, was that your (in reality) sweet, puppy of a boyfriend knows just how to give you the actual best orgasms of your life. and luckily for him, you know how to give it right back to him.

your guys’ relationship is perfect as is. regardless if others can fully comprehend it or not.

[collaredkittyboy]

Well it's come up multiple times today so I'll make a post about it.

I think the popularization of the word "twink" has ultimately been really bad for people in general.

I know it's hard to track the positive and negative effects of language but I don't think it's hard to see how creating a word for a group of people wherein the most consistent qualifying trait is "being skinny" is healthy for people's self image. Obviously people have lots of ideas about what it means to be a twink- gay, lacking body hair, feminine, beautiful, young, white- but the most consistent descriptor I've seen is "skinny." Hell, it's even a body type on Grindr; the size below "average."

So it kind of functions as a code word in the gay community: anyone can say that they're only interested in twinks and they don't have to look shallow by saying they only like skinny guys. It's such an accepted attitude that no one really bats an eye when they hear it.

I'm not even going to get into how it's become part of the larger issue of people turning "top" and "bottom" into gender roles 2.0, but that is closely related, because people with any internalized homophobia can look at a skinny, feminine man and turn off their fag alarms by viewing him as a woman or not a "real" man, and it makes twinks more acceptable to society at large.

No, ignoring all of that, one of the biggest issues is that gay men are taught by society that they are only attractive while they are skinny. Just having the label "twink" reminds a boy that people are looking at his body and judging it. There were countless times when I was growing up that people would tell me, "You're such a twink," or argue about whether or not I qualified as a twink because I had body hair. People around you, unpromted, judge your body and give you a label based on it, and that label has a large influence on whether or not you're seen as objectively attractive. I know many other gay people who say they wish they were a twink so they could be more attractive to guys.

So think, you have all these kids growing up being told whether or not they qualify as a twink, and then we have the gay community as a whole where it's completely acceptable to say you're only attracted to twinks. I think its because of all of this pressure to be a twink (in other words, to have a below average weight) that many of the gay people that I interact with struggle with a negative body image or eating disorders.

I mean, people talk about "twink death" like it's an actual event that makes a gay man much less attractive, and no one thinks that, maybe, it's harmful to tell a guy that the very day he stops being young and thin and pretty, he will stop being attractive and celebrated?

I'm not qualified to speak on fatphobia in physical queer spaces because I don't have the ability to frequent them where I live, but I can't imagine that these aren't issues at social gatherings as well. I also can't speak on my own experiences with weight discrimination because so far in my life I have had a naturally thin body, but I have experienced a lot of outside pressure to be thin that have caused me to pick up unhealthy eating habits to reduce my weight in fear that I could become fat later on. Thankfully that is something that I've mostly been able to work past. I'm not an expert, but idk, I just wanted to rant on my silly tumblr blog.

Obviously it's impossible for a word to be inherently bad. I'm not trying to imply that saying "twink" is a magic word with evil powers. Obviously the real issues at play here are fatphobia and harmful beauty standards and body shaming. But in my opinion, the popular use of the word twink has made it much easier and acceptable to express fatphobia, etc, in the gay community by turning "skinny person" into a "type of guy that you should try to be so you can be attractive."

[cardentist]

I'm being so understanding and gentle when I say this

but if what you Want to do is complain about or criticize people stripping queer men (or gnc men) of their agency and infantilizing them, the short hand for that Cannot just be a synonym for a queer man.

"they make being a twink his whole personality" "they all just make him into an uwu softboi"

and what do those words actually Mean? they mean being a gay person, they mean being feminine. using those words to Imply the infantilization or the degradation or the fetishization Is Itself applying those negative connotations to those words and identities and presentations.

we can't conflate men being visibly gay or feminine or queer with these negative tropes without, you know, Conflating The Two. using being visibly feminine (or soft, or cute, or whatever) as a shorthand for being dehumanized actively hurts other queer people and how they're seen and treated in the community.

[pocket-deer-boy]

it is actually weird to me how people took twink death as like this negative turn of phrase. idk i used to be a twink. i killed him. he's fat now. that's good, actually

[princess-dirt]

Number 1 Miquella defender.

Seriously tho (TL:DR), I'm seeing a lot of people online dismissing his character as pure evil, and it's insane to see. Although most of this is my fault for thinking the average gamer thinks about anything deeper than brainrot memes. DLC spoilers btw.

In a universe where there are like a dozen characters guilty of dozens of war crimes and genocide, calling the queer coded femboy pure evil for letting 2 people die and sacrificing himself to End Racism, War, and Genocide is a wild take.

I don't think I'd mind as much, but Ranni's ending and the Frenzied Flame endings are the two most beloved endings by the community. Like, it's ok for Ranni to kill her brother, but Miquella stealing his half brother's body after we kill him is too far.

It's ok to kill everyone because it means Melina gets to live. But Miquella making himself a god to save his sister from a life of constant horrible pain means he is power-hungry and evil.

And this isn't mentioning the whole "trecherous twink" and "Miquelester" memes that are rooted in homophobia.

But that part has a lot to do with misinformation being spread about Miquella's powers. People believing biased people who already decided to hate Miquella making up his powers or taking every bit of dialog or text to the absolute extremes.

The most obvious example being Mogh and how Miquella charmed him. I've seen delusional people go as far as to say Miquella mind controlled Mogh into starting a genocide and a blood cult. This despite the fact that it's entirely possible that Mogh started this process before Miquella was even born yet. Mogh was ambitious and wanted to be Consort to the next God. By all lore, even with the DLC, Mogh wasn't forced into anything. The line of text about the bloody bed chamber is also taken to the furthest extreme despite sexual violence and sec in general being devoid from all fromsoft games.

Even in Dark Souls, where cross breeding is canon and maidens being experimented on is also canon, actual sexual violence can only be inferred, and even then it's fringe theories. In reality, Miquella dies quite early as Mogh puts him in the cacoon and the "bloody bedchamer" is literal as in Mogh lives inside Miquella's blood. Making Miquella's corpse quite literally a bloody bedchamber.

But even if the incest happens. Yes, Mogh beats the rapist and kidnapper allegations, but nothing says he was forced into this. Miquella's power operates by making others not think negatively about him. While it can be argued that the use of the power is coercion, that is not the debate being had, and everything in the dlc shows us that his power can not force anyone to do anything. He can just convince people more easily.

Mogh is a tragic character like Morgott yes, but he is still a horrible person. The Tarnished (the player) kills him as easily as every other boss in the game. Miquella tricking Mogh and using the Tarnished killing him to steal his body is a bad thing.

I won't argue that Miquella's plan has some victims. Even if Radahn made a vow to be his Consort, Miquella still needed him dead to join him in the Land of Shadows. Radahn suffered even if he accepts Miquella by his own free will at the end.

As Ansbach says, taking Mogh's body is a horrible thing to do. Even if Ansbach is a murder cultist and heavily biased, he is right that it was still wrong to do. Ansbach even finds himself taking neither side and instead asking the Tarnished to make a new order. (It's just ironic that Ansbach describes what Miquella wants for the world)

Miquella sacrificing so much of himself is sad. We hear St Trina who is Miquella and likely Miquella's sense of Love personified, beg us to kill Miquella. Not because Miquella is evil, not because St Trina felt betrayed, but because Miquella can't love himself anymore and can accept the prison that is godhood.

And we see Miquella abandon his doubts right before he abandons his love and Trina, hiding them away from danger. We know even after sacrificing every bit of himself, he was still scared facing the Gates of Divinity. He leaves behind even his fear.

He does this all to fix the countless sins of his Mother and extended family and heal himself and his sister's curses.

It's not a coincidence Miquella's first action as a God is removing his own curse and taking the form as an adult. Showing despite everything, his goals remain the same. But of course, as the current or soon to be Elden lord ourselves, we stop him before he ever gets a chance to try fixing the world.

Some Tarnished even go out of their way to the Haligtree, slaughtering refugees from war, and killing Malenia, his sister, in cold blood. And I think this level of moral complexity and lack of clear right and wrong in the world of Elden Ring is tripping up so many people.

They see Mogh be a victim as a child and be tricked by Miquella and cannot fathom how he could still be evil. The genocide he is committing and his blood cult of murderous knights and "medics" are ignored.

Ranni can be forgiven because she is hot. Maliketh is never held at fault for what Marika does or did despite him only ever defending her and helping her. He is just super cool. We are the Tarnished so even when we chose the evil endings, there is still justification for it.

But the femboy who is very strongly queer coded can't be forgiven or understood. And another part of it is Griffith. Griffith is another morally complex feminine prince type character. Miyazaki is famously a massive berserk fanboy so characters like Prince Gwyndolin and Prince Lothric were often compared. But Miquella got the comparison the worst. Berserk spoilers btw.

And Griffith is objectionably a horrible person even before the Eclipse and when he stops being Griffith and becomes Femto. His moral complexity and the many nuances of his character often get forgotten because of the Eclipse, because of his horrible actions. Griffith being SA'd, self harming, having an unhealthy often one sided toxic love, and having so much self doubt that he nearly breaks down several times is forgotten about. They label him as pure evil and any deeper discussions about him as a character are lost.

And Miquella, as soon as he got the Griffith comparison because of his looks was destined for a similar fate when it is revealed he is an antagonist in the DLC. Griffith is pure evil, Miquella has a ton of similarities and thematic parallels to Griffith, so obviously, Miquella is pure evil. The classic no media literacy response.

I am yelling into he void I know, but I love writing and I love Miquella as a character so much. I think deep analysis and reflection is valuable even if it's just me talking to myself.

[myfandomrealitea]

I'm going to be fully honest, I hate the use of problematic as a coined term for fictional ships. I feel like problematic has just become one of those terms tossed around at anything and everything and often used as a gotcha net.

"I don't care about your ships as long as they're not problematic."

Okay. Are we talking about incest or just a ship where they have clashing political opinions?

Am I not allowed to ship the sentient wolf creature with the twink or am I not allowed to ship the two middle aged store clerks who have different views on wanting children?

What if one half of my canon ship gets de-aged to eighteen? Is it suddenly problematic to ship them for as long as that character remains de-aged?

What kind of age brackets are we defining as problematic these days? What are the cut-off points for when its not problematic for two people to fall in love? What if one person has a birthday before the other one and for a few months they're not part of that acceptable bracket anymore?

Problematic is just being used as a one-word way to shut people down and force them to comply with your own expectations and boundaries. Problematic is thrown around as a way to box people into behaving and existing in ways that make you comfortable.

"I don't like the way that you exist so I'm going to brand you as this negative word that forces you to change to suit my preferences or be shunned by society."

Problematic means to constitute as or to present a problem. It is not the shiny new term for 'if you ship this thing you're a terrible person.'

[phoenixfangs]

also nobody asked and im sure its been articulated better by people much smarter than me, but this whole thing reminds me of that post thats going around thats like "u people are using twink to derogatorily call people faggots without calling them faggots"

like, not only do people not know the difference between topping/bottoming and domming/subbing, BUT u all still equate bottoming/subbing with weakness and femininity in a Bad Way, as if its some kind of negative mark against a person or a character. like its an Insult to assert someone could not only bottom/sub but Want To. not just men but women too, like a woman (fictional or otherwise) is Wrong to not want to subvert that expectation to achieve some kind of completely arbitrary and fictional progressive appeal. and frankly not only is that absurd, its fucking stupid and not as progressive as people would like to think. in fact its quite the opposite, assigning someone value based on whether or not they fit into ur mold of what makes someone a progressive, transgressive, subversive, Whatever ideal of what role they occupy in a relationship—being so attached to rigid roles like that is about as normative and limiting and Not Subversive as it gets

[wen-kexing-apologist]

Can I ask, why do you love BL romance better than het romance? What makes them better? I did not mean anything negative, and I know everyone have their own like and dislike but I want to know your thoughts....

Also what do you think that made Asian MLM (BL manga/manhwa/manhua/tv series/movies) romances better than western MLM romances?

Hello! Yes you are more than welcome to ask :) I truly, truly love getting asks in my inbox and have been having so much fun with the fact I’ve actually been getting some recently! Warning this is long (but i have TL;DRs for everything)

___

I think the fastest answer for me is that I am queer, and therefore I find I have a lot more enjoyment and interest in watching queer stories compared to heterosexual ones.

Also, I find a lot of heterosexual romances to be steeped in misogyny, and have low-key or high-key abusive dynamics. And again, do not get me wrong, there are plenty of queer shows where there are abusive dynamics in play, but it is much harder for misogyny to be committed between two men than it is for misogyny to be placed on a male/female pairing. (I love GLs cause, you know…women, but there are a lot more complex dynamics going in to stories written about two women and those can get much trickier for me, and unfortunately many narratives love punishing lesbains with death so.... Anyway, I’m trying to stick mostly to BLs since that is primarily what this ask is about.)

Additionally, I love BLs more than heterosexual romances because of how BLs treat men. Men in heterosexual romances, especially in the West are extremely masculine, often unable to be in touch with their emotions, jaded, misogynistic, they have to be extremely muscular, and we almost never see femme boys or men.

BLs have such a vast range of men, they have twinks, they have femmes, they have gym bros. They have the clowns, and the super masculine boys. There are shows that let boys be boys, be stupid, and stinky, and fucking gross (hey Pat from Bad Buddy), they let boys be angry and aggressive and express their emotions that way (Sean and Yok’s fight in Not Me, Han Baram and Im Hantae’s conversation in the boxing ring in Sing My Crush, Lom and Nuea in The Wedding Plan, Patts in La Pluie), they let boys fight and wrestle and play (Bad Buddy, My School President, Moonlight Chicken, Only Friends). I love queer stories that let men be gay and ensure through the story that that never undermines their masculinity. I love that there are shows that focus on the progress older men can make in their relationships (What Did You Eat Yesterday?) THEY ARE ALSO ALLOWED TO CRY!!!!

And though it is still kind of rare, Asian BLs actually do have femme boys, and while I am sure femme boys exist in Western shows, I think Pose and fucking Glee are like…the only two shows with queer people that I have seen in the last decade that have an femme boy representation at all. On the flip side, I love how often GMMTV puts their boys in drag and that doesn’t even have to be in a queer show. I also generally love the fact that most of the male actors in Asian BLs, and again, especially in Thailand embrace their femme sides in photoshoots and whatnot, that they wear earrings, and jewelry, and makeup and they look hot as fuck, because it helps me with my own gender identity. I feel and see myself much more masculine (and have less dysphoria) when I have an earring or a necklace or makeup on, now that I have seen so many boys do the same. 

TL;DR: I am queer, and heterosexual romances are frequently misogynistic, and men are extremely masculine and rarely allowed to be soft. Asian BLs give us a very broad range of masculinity, but often let boys be boys while also kissing boys. And actors embracing their femme sides helps me feel more masculine when I lean in to my femme side.

___

As for Asian MLM romances compared to Western MLM romances, obviously this is not a cut and dry thing, not all Asian BLs are going to be better than Western BLs but I find I have a tendency to enjoy Asian BLs/queer media more for a few reasons, generally in order of most to least important for me:

Reason One- Family

This may seem somewhat surprising because the first, and honestly biggest reason I tend to like Asian BLs more than Western BLs has much less to do with the queer aspect. It's actually the family dynamics. I think Western media very frequently has a tendency to be very binary in their portrayal of family dynamics, if family is at all included in Western narratives the relationships that characters have to their family is either almost wholly good, or almost wholly bad. You either have a very abusive household that a character is trying to avoid or flee, or you have a traditional, happy, nuclear family, and when characters have a strained relationship to their family, I have noticed a lot more narrative support for leaving that family behind. But for the most part, family does not play a huge role in most Western shows (and, wild concept to me, it’s part of why I think shows like Succession are so successful, because that is all about complex, fucked up, and loving relationships within a family). 

Whereas, in Asian media, far more frequently family and family dynamics play a huge role in the character’s lives, behaviors, and can influence the story. And because filial piety is such an important aspect to many Asian cultures, you get a lot more interesting parent/child relationships out of Asian media than you do with Western content. And I am a white Westerner, but I am fundamentally, culturally a Southerner and despite no longer being a woman, I will never shed the mantle of Eldest Daughter. And that has resulted in a sense of family responsibility and piety that ends up making it very very easy for me to understand the motivations of the characters that remain loyal to their family even when their family is asking for things from them that run counter to their own desires or happiness (I’ve actually had this conversation a lot with @waitmyturtles about the intersections of Southern culture and Asian culture).

And similarly, I find that a lot of Western media with queer characters at least in the time frame that I have been able to find content with queer characters is either wholly homophobic, or wholly accepting. And do not get me wrong, we get family dynamics like that in Asian BLs too, but we also get parents who are upset about their child’s queerness, and will voice that, and yet who still take care of their children. I’m thinking of the film I watched just the other day called Margarita with a Straw where the main character’s mother can barely look or talk to her daughter when she comes out, but because she is disabled, her mother is still there preparing food for her, bathing her, etc. because even if she is upset about her child’s queerness she can’t stop taking care of her. And those aren’t dynamics I often see in Western media. 

I don’t see relationships like Sawismol and Wang in Western media, where a mother can look at her child and say, out loud that she is disappointed, and to be upset, and to still, despite everything, be the person that her son goes to for comfort when he is absolutely devastated, and I don’t see Western parents sitting there and performing that comfort even when they are disappointed in their children’s queerness.

TL;DR: Family dynamics feel a lot more built out, realistic, and complex in many Asian BLs/media that I’ve seen, than they do in many Western shows. Until I started watching Asian media, I had not seen the dynamics I have with my mother or my father played out on screen. 

Reason Two- Casual Trans Inclusion 

And, as a trans person myself, part of what makes Asian BL shows, Thai shows much more specifically, so important, interesting, and influential to me when compared to Western BLs is the casual inclusion of trans people. Like, that is just something Western media is barely ready for. It’s not non-existent. We have and have had shows like The Fosters, Sense8, Pose, The Owl House, and Heartstopper that have some trans rep. But a lot of those shows have a hefty component to them that shows the struggles of being trans.

In The Fosters we have to watch Cole nearly die trying to get his hands on testosterone, in Sense8 we have to watch Nomi be kept as a medical prisoner and stripped of her autonomy and almost lobotomized, in Pose we are constantly exposed to the very real dangers that trans women of color experience including murder, in Heartstopper we are spared from having to witness the transphobia Elle went through, but it is mentioned. I think the only one of these shows that doesn’t have some element of struggle because a character is trans is The Owl House and let us not forget that Raine Whispers goes through fucking hell in that show. And these conversations, and the demonstrations of struggle to just survive and thrive despite that is vitally important in a society that is pushing closer and closer towards genocide against trans people. Stories that show the struggles of trans people exist for the sake of realism but also serve as an attempt to try to garner empathy towards trans people by cisgender viewers. 

Thailand does have stories where a trans character experiences transphobia (3 Will Be Free, The Warp Effect, Secret Crush on You), but they also have so many stories where trans people are literally just vibing. Do you know how revolutionary it was for me when I watched KinnPorsche and saw Yok, and she was happy, and beautiful, and fun, and her entire plot centered around her running that bar, flirting with boys, and playing surrogate mother to Porsche? Or just to see trans women existing, who aren’t even central to the plot, but are just there? (Payu’s secretary at the auto shop is a trans woman, Golf Tanwarin was at the inclusive cafe in The Eclipse, Golf Kittipat had an illustrious career as a music producer in My School President). Like that shit is SO important to me, and I never, never see it in Western media. 

TL;DR: There are many Thai shows especially where trans people just exist, and they have plots that aren’t always centered around them being trans. Which is revolutionary, coming in as a trans Western viewer where the majority of trans rep in Western shows makes me eventually have to watch trans people suffer. 

Reason Three- Passion Projects

The film industry is huge and pervasive in Western culture, and in the US especially, and with that comes big budget projects that stretch out as long as they can squeeze a cent out of a fan base. As a result you get shows that are too long, you get shows that ruin their premise in the last season after five to fifteen years of dragging the shambling corpse of a story along. And again, do not get me wrong, there are plenty plenty of Asian BLs that are cash grabs, that are terrible, where the actors aren’t really in it. But, most BLs in Asia are one season, they get in, they get out, and you forget it if it’s bad, or you hate it forever if it’s objectively bigoted. But the time commitment to terrible pieces is a lot shorter. 

That said, when you have a low budget, and a story you want to tell, it makes my love so much more. Because it means the crew, the writers, the director, and often time the actors are there because they want to be there, because they like the story they are telling, because they have a story they want to tell. It’s part of why I love shows like The Eclipse so much, because that show was made with a budget mainly comprised of pocket lint and hope, because Golf Tanwarin had something they wanted to say.  Most if not all of Aof Nopparnach’s shows give genuinely, inherently queer stories that speak to queer people. Jojo Tichakorn makes pieces that are so full of queer lenses you could never deny the inherent queerness in his shows, even if the story is primarily focused on a straight person/relationship (Mama Gogo). There are so many shows in the Asian BL world where you can just tell that everyone is having fun. LIsten, Fish Upon the Sky is an extremely problematic show, but for me it felt like everyone had a great time goofing off on that set. You can tell EV-ER-Y-BOD-Y in the cast of Mama Gogo  was having the time of their motherfucking lives. 

I also think the West is very self-congratulatory and tends to hold themselves as the standard of televisions and acting, when I am over here watching Asian BLs with some of the strongest acting from young people I have ever seen, and having it be written off because its a) low budget b) gay and c) in another language. Like, when I try to get people in to BL I start with shows like KinnPorsche (which I know drives @bnegiyo mad) cause it has a much higher production value than many other Asian BLs without being prestige and therefore can’t radically alter the perception of what BL is (hello ITSAY/IPYTM and 180 Degrees), Thai BLs especially. And I figure that is the only way to show someone the level of absurdity and camp that comes from a lot of BLs, while also maintaining their interest because it has a higher production value, so that if they end up enjoying that they are more willing to watch the low budget shows. 

TL;DR: Many Asian BLs are pretty low budget, compared to like any Western show, which I find to mean we have more stories in Asian BL that people actually want to tell. (there are still very many shows that people seem to just kinda show up for, or get bored with partway through [looking at you Tee] but.)

Reason Four- Abundance

There are 

So 

Many 

Asian 

BLs 

Here's a fraction of my watch list

I have watched 81 in roughly the last year, and there are so many more on my Plan to Watch list, and there are more coming out all the time. The West has given me like…two, maybe three. And when we do get good queer shows in the West, they are frequently canceled before completion. Especially if they are on Netflix. 

We lost Sense8, fans had to fight for Out Flag Means Death to get renewed, The Owl House got cancelled by Disney after giving their main character a girlfriend, ND Stevenson had to write two ending to She-Ra and fought tooth and fucking nail to get the gay one, Legend of Korra had to save the gay kiss until the end just like She-Ra had to. If you want to get depressed here is a link to an article ‘50 TV shows with Lesbian, Bisexual, and Queer characters cancelled after one season’. Because most Asian BLs are meant to be only one season, we actually get complete stories, rather than ending with unresolved tension, or cliffhangers. 

TL;DR: there is a metric fuck ton of Asian BLs

Reason Five- Sex

The West, especially the US, tends to have a very puritanical view of sex (which makes sense because the Puritans were some of the first colonizers…I mean colonials…to murder everyone and occupy…uh, I mean settle the United States (I would also like to place blame on the Italians and Spanish [hey Columbus] and their Catholicism AND PROTESTANT CALVINISM that also influenced the pervasive societal views of sex and especially gay sex in the United States).  

With ever increasing homophobia and transphobia, so many shows are trying, in my own personal opinion, to garner empathy, sympathy, and acceptance for queer characters by cisgender and/or heterosexual viewers by making their queer characters flat, two-dimensional, virginal, perfect people. But homophobes and transphobes consider holding hands to be just as grotesque and inappropriate as full on porn. With Western, and especially US based, views of sex, many queer characters are sanitized, sex scenes are rare, and if they do exist at all they are usually in shows that have mature ratings. 

That is not the case with Asian BLs. Like, do not get me wrong, there are plenty of pure, virginal, don’t kiss, barely touch BLs out there, but because there are so many BLs, there are also plenty of shows with lots of physical intimacy and multiple make out scenes that aren’t maturely rated, as well as plenty of maturely rated shows that have multiple sex scenes AND CAN INCLUDE KINK WHICH LIKE!!!!! I rarely see in the Western media I’ve watched. Hell, Sense8 is a sexual liberation show that includes multiple orgies, but there is not even a hint of any other kink (besides whatever Dani, Lito, and Hernando have going on).

gif by @radishayuan

Meanwhile, The Warp Effect has fucking puppy play, Bed Friend has pet play, Laws of Attraction which has a couple pretty chaste kisses shows handcuffs to at least imply kink, there’s a ball gag and a fucking leash in Big Dragon, I haven’t seen it but Unforgotten Night has a lot of BDSM themes in it, Rain and Payu have a dom/sub dynamic going on, we have daddy kinks abound, I also haven’t seen this one but I know there is some belt bondage in War of Y. And even if it isn’t shown, kink and bondage specifically are often referenced in passing in shows with sex.

Also, there are very very very few Western shows I have seen that treat sex workers kindly, and Jojo Tichakorn is right there giving us sex workers as main characters multiple times in a row. Taiwan has great physical chemistry, the very few things I have seen from the Phillipines are so fucking queer, Japan even when they aren’t including sex at all have some extremely queer narratives, and when they are including sex? Holy fuck. South Korea is developing, but I have liked what I’ve seen so far, and it’s been fun seeing very rapid progressions in the level of physical intimacy characters are allowed to have, Thailand has been making a name for itself.  

TL;DR: There is a very broad range of physical intimacy in Asian BLs from no sex to lots of sex, but the abundance of content means I am seeing more shows with gay sex in them in like…a month or two, than shows I have seen in the West with gay characters at all in like…the past year. (This is of course, subjective, don’t ask me for real numbers). 

And, you know, in case this response wasn’t long enough, the amount of queer content, the types of stories being told, the rapid and continued development of BL is super interesting to observe in its own right. Sure, it may be driven by marketability and sales, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t some truly important, realistic, vital, and beautiful pieces of queer media being created and shared with the world, a lot of which is much more accessible to audiences than Western media. I go heavy on the Thai shows in part because they are available for free on YouTube. 

I also think the West seems to think that having gay marriage is the be all, end all of queer inclusivity, and that they do not realize that countries without gay marriage are creating some of the most realistic queer content out there right now. The West has a lot it can learn from Asian BLs, but in my opinion, we’ve got our heads too far up our asses to be following their lead.

[lycandrophile]

I know that saying T turning twinks into otters and bears is supposed to be positivity, but it feels excluding of those of us that didn't get those effects from T. Trans men can look all kinds of ways and I keep seeing posts that almost belittle the idea of trans men remaining like that after T, but some of us do. Lift up the ones who do turn into otters and bears and those that don't. It's already a point of dysphoria for a lot of people

it is not humanly possible for me to include every single possible transmasc experience in one post, nor is it my responsibility to try to. positivity for one experience does not equal negativity toward other experiences. if you want a positivity post for people who don’t get those effects from t, by all means make one and i’ll fully support you in that, but don’t treat other kinds of positivity as wrong just because they’re not for you.

i am a trans man who went from a twink to an otter on t, and i put that line in because that’s an aspect of my transition that i’m incredibly proud of. i’m allowed to do that, and i’m not required to fulfill some sort of quota of positivity for other people to make that okay. me showing pride in my body and bodies like mine isn’t belittling other kinds of bodies, and i would challenge you to really ask yourself why you interpreted positivity for other people as automatically negative toward you. sometimes some things just aren’t for you and that’s okay. i’m sure there are other parts of that post that did apply to you, as well as plenty of other positivity posts that do. and if not? make some! send them to me, i’d love to reblog them! every positivity post you see is just a trans person making the posts they want to see more of, and you can do the same.

not to mention, hair growth and weight gain on t are incredibly stigmatized. people constantly talk about how bad they think all the hair looks or how gross they think it is when we don’t shave, and gaining weight is something that’s pretty much always framed as a negative side effect instead of a desirable and euphoric change. people literally try to convince us not to go on t by saying “you’re not going to stay an androgynous twink, you’re going to be hairy and all your fat will move to your stomach and you’ll just look like your dad.” that’s a horror story to a lot of people; that’s the thing that they think will disgust us enough to decide we don’t want to go on t.

so if you see a lot of posts hyping up trans otters and bears, it’s not us saying other kinds of bodies aren’t as good, it’s just us pushing back against those narratives and saying “no, our bodies are good too, actually, and i’m glad t made me look this way.” that’s not to say there isn’t also a lot of negativity toward trans men who are smaller and less hairy; no matter how we look, people will find a reason to hate our bodies because they hate us. but you really can’t put the blame on trans otters and bears who just want to send a message that our bodies aren’t bad.

if seeing positivity for trans bodies that aren’t like yours makes you dysphoric, please understand that that’s a personal thing you need to learn how to deal with and not the fault of the people who just want to feel good about their bodies as much as you do. it’s okay to want positivity for your kind of trans body and i promise you those posts are out there, but you can’t expect every single one to cater to your specific experiences.

[eclectic-sassycoweyes]

Okay. The thing is - we’ll never get everything from this show, we’ll never get to see everything play out. The conversations will always be fractioned and half. It’s a prime time network show that gives us 45 minutes of screen time each episode spread out between a whole cast of characters and plot lines and action sequences.

And my point with that is: Everything outside of what we see in canon is >us< filling in the blanks, interpreting and basically finishing the characters and the storylines.

If you dislike a character or storyline, a large amount of what you dislike will be of your own making. Which means that you created that negative take, only to be negative about it.

If a character isn’t giving all their background and reasons, or isn’t providing what you find to be a sufficient apology for what you believe is a ‘wrong doing’ then that’s you deciding that their reasons were bad instead of valid. You deciding to go ‘I hate this character bc they didn’t apologize’ instead of going ‘I trust that this character apologized but I hate that we didn’t get to see it’ or even ‘I hate that they wrote this character as not apologizing’.

And like. Just because I love these characters and this show or a certain storyline doesn’t mean I think we can’t be critical of it. And it doesn’t mean I expect everyone else to love anything or everything about it. And mostly with this negativity for negativity’s sake, it just makes me think ‘well people are weird’.

Because I literally don’t get watching a show you don’t like and then spending time posting about it using that show’s fandom tags, or painting a character in a bad light just so you can feel negative about it. I don’t get going for drama and negativity when you can go for joy. I get criticizing or even hating the writing, talking about writing that might be problematic, and not resonating with the way a storyline or a character is written, but I don’t get hating a Character that is, in fact, not real and can never be fully fleshed out in a show like this.

But the problem is also when these takes either:

1.) are meant for and created to deliberately reach into other people’s place of joy and create drama.

And, even more so, 2.) when they are racist, ableist, misogynistic in nature and thus are doing real harm to real people. Which, is in fact very much the case when TK is called a ‘twink’ and that term is meant as derogatory or his addiction is being used against him; when Carlos isn’t being emphasized with at all, and attempted to be understood for his reasons, feelings and actions, or isn’t allowed to have complicated, ‘negative’ emotions but is expected to be there to be TK’s ever perfect and present support rock; when Iris is being called words like crazy, or other derogatory terms and her illness or trauma isn’t acknowledged, or she’s being painted stereotypically and as an un-nuanced character bc of her mental illness.

And I don’t get it bc we literally see TK being strong for and supporting Carlos several times in canon. We see Carlos developing and working on his insecurities, educating himself on addiction to best be there for TK. We are told where those insecurities come from. We saw TK’s struggles with active addiction. We literally saw Carlos’ dad being shot in his own home wearing the tux he was supposed to wear as Carlos’ best man, just when their relationship and old wounds were on the mend, heard his mother, who watched it happen, scream down the line while on the phone with Carlos, who also heard it happen. We don’t see anybody but Carlos seeking justice, and we still see Carlos making an effort to spend quality time with TK and communicate openly with him. And we saw TK going to bed without his husband not for the first time, knowing that he’s in pain and that grief has previously let him to feel alone and to close up and end up in a dangerous and unhealthy place, where TK couldn’t reach him or help him. We know that there is past trauma and experience for TK that will make him recognize patterns and make him worry for both Carlos’ wellbeing, and for their marrriage.

And, we see them loving, caring for and forgiving each other through it all. We see a relationship with two people who are not always right, not always perfect, but who are doing the best they can and being by each other’s sides through that. We see nuanced and realistic conflicts with root in both of their trauma. [And loving one character and trusting their judgement but not trusting their love and evaluation of the other is just very difficult for me to understand.]

Everything apart from that, the thoughts, feelings and motivations we assign them, the moments, conversations and apologies we imagine or don’t imagine to have taken place, how two characters came from having a conflict to saying ‘I love you’/‘I forgive you’, or to being friends and dancing at a wedding, what lead characters to say “I’ll keep a light on”/“I feel like we’re starting to drift apart”/“we’re doing great”, what else they might have said, and what they might have felt in that situation, is stuff we make up and put into the story. And so it is up to us whether we try and understand and love these characters or whether we want to make them into bad people, and then hate them for it.

[bloogers-boogers]

More Marriage au ~

Adam was dragged to a small office for more privacy. He was never the problem?, what was this bitch talking about??

Anyways he was being questioned in almost everything that happened, felt and did while freshly married to Lucifer, it got to the point where it went too deep, and thats when it hit to his first marriage.

"So in the Bible it states you were married two times, is that true?"

"No. It only states when I was married to my awesome smocking hot ex wife: Eve~ and us being created."

"So that's a lie?"

"Not entirely, they just covered up the small mistakes, glossing the story up a bit."

"Which was?"

"Lilith. That unfaithful bitch. They covered her entire existence. Everything related to Lucifer, his rebellion, they didn't even stated his real name in the bible, cause he wasn't "worthy" of being recognized as his angel self. I personally think it would've been a lot more harsher if they kept his old name instead of Lucifer but whatever I guess. Then somehow those nosy ass theorists from the afertmath of Noah's shit load started looking into it too much and found actually more dirt in the hole, that revealed more to our creation. And that's how we got many split versions of it in different scriptures."

"What's his real name?"

"We're not allowed to say it. It's an angel thing."

"Prehistoric heaven stuff huh. But you're no longer a angel, your highness.."

"Fuck you. I was originally a angel before I was murdered totally unjustified btw. How does any of this information does anything in fixing my marriage?!"

The counselor scoffed, but kept her own opinion on that matter (exterminations) to herself. She's a marriage counselor not a therapist, and she wasn't getting paid enough anyways, "you were human. Originally human. Not an angel."

Now it was Adam's turn to scoff offended, but said nothing. He hated to see that side of him after his death on earth. It only brought bad memories, linked to only negative feelings, sorrow and thoughts.

"Tell me more about your marriage with Lilith."

"Pssch what's there to say? Where do I even start? What exactly do you want to know. I can go all into detail about how shit she was as my wife."

"Go on. Tell me everything you want to share, I'm here until 8 and your paying so.."

"More like aPplE hUbBy is paying for everything but whatever, took his card and shit HAHAHAHA! HAAAA," Adam snicker for himself, wiping a tear; thinking he was being funny. But he wasn't. At least for anyone else in the room which was just Gladis (counselor's name) and the only response she did was write a note to that comment.

Note one:

'Apple hubby. A subconscious, possible meaningful name for his spouse. If it referring to events of the bible, may mean about the whole apple incident (weak spot?) or it could be related to King Morningstar's obsession with apples (concerning). Or both.'

"Firstly she cheated on me. Obviously. That's the whole tea, bitch. Secondly she didn't agreed on anything I did, suggest or thought. It's like she wanted to be against everything I believed in. Nothing I did to impress her sastified her. She made ME question my entire faith and existence!" The more Adam spoke the more his pupils shrank by the dark memories of his past.

Note two:

'First wife trauma.'

"Then Lucifer shows up and POOF! Now everything that twink ass looking angel did was 'amazing' and worth looking forward to. He only sang and dance with her, ONCE, and it was like, her whole world turned around.. facing away from me..."

"And did Lucifer have any connections with you at the time? Did he also approach you when he firstly approached Lilith? Did you two spend time together? Talk? Bond?"

"More like it was all a whole distraction for their affair to continue."

"So you two did have a relationship."

"It's complicated."

"Why was it complicated, Adam?"

Adam's face soften in sadness. The question taking him off guard. He wasn't entirely sure?

What went wrong. What did he do, to not deserve Lucifer and Lilith's loyalty? Friendship, honesty.

Why wasn't he ever worth something. Enough.

"I have no fucking idea, man. I was literally perfect, still am and yet they wanted more than what they could bite and CHOKE on it in the progress."

"You're including Lilith in this. Why's that?"

"Because those two bastards were a team. The damage was done by both, all planned out and ready for what was gonna come. Got both me AND Eve. It's plural. I wish I could say I was alone in all this but I wasn't which is why it makes things hard to forgive and forget."

Note three:

'Gayass.'

"So how did you two end up falling in love?"

"We didn't, we kinda just poofed into existence already married and stuff."

"I meant you and King Lucifer."

"Just call him Lucifer he doesn't deserve that sorts of respect, he's an ass. A snake full of cock that doomed humanity."

"How did you and Lucifer get together," she asserted much more frustrated seeing Adam was getting nowhere to the subject in hand.

Adam then realized immediately everyone actually thought they were truly an item. Well this went awkward all of a sudden. So he decided to keep up the lie.

"I died."

"And—— what else?"

"Wdym 'what else'? Bitch wanted to complete the full set y'know. First dick, father of humanity, the only one that refused to join him. I'm basically his forbidden apple."

"And you just let him?"

"Sure. Why not? What's there to lose y'know. That's my jam. I just go with the flow. If it works for me then let it be damn and fuck me hard, I'm fucking doing it."

"Adam, are you taking this session seriously?"

Adam in response digs his pinky finger inside his ear with indifference, "Look. I just want answers, babe. I don't want spiritual solutions or tips. Tell me how to fix this."

She sighed, "when was the last time you two were intimate?"

"WOW, wow. WOAH. Where going to that territory now? Little tea maker right here but whateves."

So Adam went on full detail on one of his sex escapes back in heaven, plastering Lucifer’s name on whatever freak he has fucked in the last centuries. He was not in any way gonna go on about sex with Lucifer (they did it only two times; one outta traditional terms, the second we don’t talk about the fucking second.) that shit was private and humiliating to say the least.

He blushed. Just the thought of Lucifer’s claws running down his skin and his fangs digging through his neck and wings. It sent shivers down his spine. Made his throat go all dry and his limbs all numb.

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[purpurussy]

what is all of this like for post-hiatus phannies?

I've been trying to figure out how to phrase this for a minute. The most obvious comparison would be that it's like starting a TV show 10 seasons in, but that doesn't come remotely close to the amount of required reading necessary to understand even 5% of the references. This has not been a problem for me, as I love nothing more than a good all-consuming hyperfixation rabbit hole, but something I'm realizing is that you really just had to be there to fully Understand.

I got into d&p properly in December of 2023, when gamingmas appealed to my emotionally curious nature and then gave me some kind of irreversible brain damage which I'm still trying to process. Since then I've been consuming their back catalogue as though it's laced with cocaine, and obsessively lurking on phannie tumblr until I finally made this blog a few weeks ago.

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I actually watched Dan's videos for a little while back in roughly 2013/2014, but something about his content back then just wasn't working for me like it does now (I have such a clear memory of watching Reasons Why Dan’s A Fail and thinking "aw man why does this cute little twink hate himself so much 😔" and then going back to watching Jenna Marbles lmao. Funnily enough it did make me change my negative self-talk a little bit). I was very much a brief casual viewer who went off them pretty much after watching a few videos, and after that I was sort of vaguely aware of them as the cultural icons of the 2010s that they were, but I wasn't keeping up with them at all. 

I don't even remember BIG coming out, which is insane because I've always been extremely chronically online and it definitely broke containment as a cultural moment (although I think I was trying to minimize my social media use at that point in my life, so maybe that's why it went over my head). I feel like I must have heard something about it at the time, though, because I knew they were gay when I started watching them last year. What's really strange is that a lot of this stuff is kinda timeless to me. I don't remember it happening 5, 10 or 15 years ago - I just witnessed it very recently. For a lot of you guys, BIG happened 5 years ago, but I just watched it for the first time a few months ago. At the same time, in my mind they've just always been gay, since I wasn't in the trenches of the unhinged online culture surrounding them in the early/mid 2010s. It's so confusing to balance my weird temporal perception of these events with the impressions that I get from you guys. Oftentimes I have to judge roughly when something would have happened based on their appearances - it's not actually a *memory* for me, like it is for you. I absolutely love the dynamic and branding they have now, and the deep dives into their past are more of a curious exploration of how they got here, rather than actually nostalgic (or, I suppose, mildly traumatic) for me. It’s still very interesting and compelling to me, but because I love the current iteration of Dan and Phil, not because I’m emotionally invested in who they used to be. 

Sometimes I’ll be aware that an event happened, but I won’t realize how monumental it was until I see people talking about it (I hate to say it but I genuinely don't fully understand why the BONCAs thing was so earth-shattering, but like I said, I've always lived in a post-BIG universe, and I think you just had to be there). There are also plenty of references to stuff that's just been lost to time, which I have to piece together with context clues, as well as the more unhinged demonic stuff that I just don't have any interest in exploring whatsoever (I think I might have watched the v-day video if I'd been there when it leaked and I was a stupid teenager, but at this point, I don't even feel any kind of morbid curiosity for it. I just feel really bad for them that it got leaked. Plus, unfortunately, I think I've learned all I need to know about it through internet osmosis here). I feel like a lot of these events have a real emotional meaning for you guys, when to me, they're just interesting/funny/insane anecdotes which give some context to everything. Some of the shit that you guys lived through back then is absolutely wild, and I love and appreciate all of you for meticulously archiving and documenting everything and for being so willing to answer the same questions over and over again! Otherwise I feel like I wouldn't be able to really be part of this community, and posting my silly little memes on this blog is so fucking fun. So thank you all for that.

It seems like this is one of the most ride-or-die fanbases I've ever seen. The fact that they could invent the concept of YouTubers doing world tours, successfully execute that multiple times, branch out into several other ventures, come out as gay not fully knowing how that would affect their careers, disappear for several years and then come back knowing that there would be a solid audience waiting for them even after their virality had died down, drop merch every 3 seconds - I don't know who else can really get away with that, for almost 15 years, in the extremely "live fast die young" culture of internet fame. And I think it's in no small part because you all have chronic "unconditionally supporting dan and phil" disease. (While we’re on the topic, I feel very lucky to have missed the hiatus era. There's kind of a compression in the timeline for me between the gaming channel going dark and Dan starting his WAD tour, where it's like that time just doesn't exist in the Dan and Phil cinematic universe for me. It took me a while to realize how insane it must have been when they came back in full force, I can't even imagine how that must have felt.)

Of course, there's a caveat in that I'm saying this only really knowing about the tip of the demon iceberg. I’m aware of people engaging in behaviours such as doxxing them, outing them and stalking their families, which is horrifying in and of itself, but I don’t know how long it went on for or how many people were involved. I think people are generally pretty well-behaved at this point, and most of the drama seems to be between different schools of thought within the fanbase itself. I assume a big part of the reason for that is people's varying degrees of involvement in (and remaining notion of guilt for) the boundary-crossing behaviour from the old days. Living with the spectre of this insanity is kind of strange - it makes me feel nervous sometimes that I’m gonna accidentally say something that hits a nerve, or cross a line I didn’t know existed, because there’s all this history that I don’t fully understand, beyond just the normal unwritten rules for interacting with fan spaces online. 

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The topic that got me writing this in the first place was the orange heart incident, and everyone’s subsequent meltdown. For me, the excitement in them soft/hard/semi launching is more about me just getting excited about any open, proud expression of queer joy - it heals something inside me every time I hear a man referring to his husband or a woman referring to her wife (excuse the gendered terms, ykwim. gay shit). It's just that sentiment, combined with the fact that I'm parasocially invested in them: I'd love to see that energy from my fave little guys who live inside my computer. I am basically rooting for them to become more comfortable with just talking about gay stuff more openly and candidly, and I guess that would require a bit of a hard launch, although I can understand that they don't want to potentially open the door to excessive questioning regarding their relationship. I feel like it ✨hits different✨ for people who watched them for years before they came out. Like, you guys are rooting for people who you watched in real time struggling with their identities and internalized homophobia for years and years, while to me, they’re just some guys who I’m a fan of. Sometimes I get caught up in the emotional frenzy of their hard-launch breadcrumbs even though I don’t feel quite as insane about it as you guys (I said in some tags a few days ago that it’s like the base instinct to turn around and start running if you see a crowd of people running towards you and screaming in terror, even if you have no idea what’s going on). Anyway, I would love to see them being more gooey with each other, and I am gobbling up the breadcrumbs they're feeding us atm, because I love seeing gay people expressing gay love with no shame 🧡 

I think my perception of them as a couple, or of their sexualities independently, is just kind of an extension of everything Dan said in BIG. I really have no doubt that they're a couple, and I don't feel any kind of weird Catholic guilt in saying that, since I neither witnessed nor participated in the insanity back then. I interpreted (I'm paraphrasing) "obviously we were more than friends, but it was more than just romantic, we're like, actual soulmates" followed by "as for the situation now? we're private people and we'd like to keep that part of our lives private" as him essentially saying that obviously they're a couple, but that their relationship is not part of the Dan And Phil™ Brand. The brand is 2 guys who have great chemistry doing comedy together (5 feet apart even though clearly they are gay and in love). And I think that's a completely healthy decision to make, even irrespective of their history. I think a hard launch would be subtle, and it wouldn’t realistically change the nature of their content that much. 

With that being said, to me, it seems slightly wild for people to adamantly insist they're not a couple, or that it’s “invasive” to assume that they are one (not that that really applies to anyone here, but elsewhere on the internet). If they were a straight man and a straight woman, and there wasn't a huge chunk of people on the internet struggling with this oddly conditioned aversion to seeing them as a couple, then nobody on earth would be insisting that it's weird to assume they're together. Dan confirmed that they became romantically involved around the time they met, and building a forever home with your ex is crazy, that's all there is to it.

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This is kind of a messy stream of thoughts (it ended up sort of becoming 2 essays for the price of 1) and I don't really know where I was going with it. In conclusion I think that day 1 phannies are braver than any US marine and you have all suffered more than Jesus on the cross, and I'm extremely thankful that I get to reap the rewards of your labour now without having lived through the dark ages myself. I also think some of you are holding onto a bit of unnecessary guilt for dumb shit you said on the internet when you were a kid. And Dan and Phil are gay and I love them and I reeeeaaaallllyyy want them to do a podcast so bad because this is all conjecture and I would parasocially love to hear their actual thoughts on it

[chaifootsteps]

I’m glad more people are bringing up how conservative each shows are about sex and drugs. It’s more egregious for HH/HB because the showrunner claims these shows as sex positive shows but there’s never any consent or it’s dubious at best. For Angel and fizz, sex is used as a punishment, if they make their abusers angry they retaliate and threaten them with rape. Angel literally and fizz with the sex robots he never consented to and mammon wanting to see he “get fucked” through the sex robots. Husk and Blitz boundaries are pushed but they can’t retaliate otherwise they’re seen as the bad guys by the audience and other characters for hurting the “twinks” feelings and because they’re not reciprocating their feeling back. Moxxie and Millie are married and seen as the ideal couple in HB because they’re in love and monogamous so they get to be as sexual as they want. Charlie and Vaggie are a sexless couple that don’t engage in sex or flirty behavior because they’re meant to be seen as pure because they’re in love.

Both shows never show consent. Scott pilgrim had the right idea and execution by having Ramon’s and Scott almost have sex only for Ramona to say no and Scott RESPECT her decision and not try anything.

They try to do this in HB with Ozzie explaining lust as consent to stolas and it has the right mind but it’s fails because stolas has coerced blitz into sex and Ozzie is the prince of lust. Lust has nothing to do with consent it’s all about TAKING things with a strong powerful desire that leads to immoral behavior be it sex or revenge. Ozzie ALSO helped make the sex robots of fizz. The concept was good, the execution was terrible.

you can’t claim to be sex positive and fail to show show consent. Sex is only seen as a positive if the characters are in love. If you’re a “loose” character or have multiple partners it’s seen as a negative or worse shamed like Verosika and the twins because they are viewed as “bitches” or “whores” because they are not monogamous and there’s no love. BDSM is also used amateurish like 50 shades of grey and recently The Boys because the joke is “look how weird and freakish these people lol”

All of this. A healthy depiction of consent is a must for anything that wants to call itself sex positive. If your "sex positive" work is completely indistinguishable from a sex negative one, you're probably better off not even bothering.