#and since the canon endgame ships are different

[perrypixel]

The more I hear from others the Luz and Hunter’s VAs don't support lunter is laughable bc the way they were bantering and flirting with each other in Hunting Palisman like they really thought there was a chance that they were each other's character's love interest at the time of recording that episode

[adamsrcnan]

honestly i think it's a little redundant to write any think pieces on what jean's endgame ship will be. it's going to be jerejean whether you like it or not. that's the story nora is writing. she said it herself when she announced it. this story is a love story but it's also a story about jean and his journey to recovery (and just because jeremy is the future love interest that doesn't diminish the importance kevin has on jean's life either. jean's feelings for kevin are very much still there but so is the betrayal and hurt of him leaving him in the nest. it's a very convoluted relationship of which we still don't know much about. only what jean has told us, so far. as the man who believes his feelings have not been reciprocated to the same degree, mind you. like, we still have two more books to go, one with more scenes with kevin in them where we will learn more.).

as for jeremy...lmao. have we not been talking about how little we know of him since the book dropped? and now all of a sudden people are claiming to know everything about him and decided he's no good? based on one book? and for some reason because he isn't handling his new traumatised teammate perfectly like a professional with a psychology degree he's somehow not right for jean? since when has anyone in this universe been perfect? or dealt with trauma professionally and perfectly?

do i think it's right that jeremy crossed some boundaries to get some answers about jean's past? no. do i think it's right that he overshared jean's truths to his friends without his permission? fuck no. but we're dealing with a whole different group of people here, most of which have not been traumatised to the level the foxes had been. who are not used to dealing with people like jean. jeremy has his own issues yet to be revealed, he clearly has problems standing up to his family (as seen with his sister), though he has no issue captaining his team (as seen with lucas) and it's suspect that he also doesn't think himself to be as great of a person as everyone else does given the sad look on his face when jean tells him he could never be anyone's villain. so idk why anyone thinks they know anything about him when he's so cagey in his own pov. and nowhere in that, may i add, has he ever implied he wants to "fix" jean. he wants to help him. he wants to give him reasons to enjoy his life now that he can i.e making him take that silly ceramics class for Fun. and given jean has had his whole life centred around exy (which he doesn't even enjoy anymore) i think it's actually very smart and helpful to get him doing things that "don't matter" so that he can learn from it and learn that he can actually live outside exy. that he can make mistakes and be imperfect at something and that's Okay.

at this moment in time in canon, kevin doesn't have that kind of mindset and it's probably because he was allowed the freedom to already pursue an interest outside of exy - his love of history. like are we missing the detail that he begged tetsuji to let him take that as his major and he actually allowed it? kevin, though still has a long way to go, still has something outside of exy he can hold onto and switch off from. jean doesn't have that and jeremy just so happens to come along and give him the option and for some reason that seems to get ignored. i think it's actually one of the most important things about their relationship so far. jeremy still makes all the accommodations jean needs - setting him up with class partners, taking him for a run when he needs to get out of his head, buying a bed to sleep in the room with him. but he also pushes back and insists jean try something to break him out of his unhealthy relationship with exy.

also, hello, jean literally admits to himself it's a Lie when he tells jeremy he doesn't want him to look if it's too much for him to deal with when jean is attacked by grayson. and jeremy refuses to look away. something everyone around jean has done since he was born, probably.

"Jeremy’s response was low but unhesitating: “I will not look away.” “I do not want you to look.” It frightened him how much it sounded like a lie, but he didn’t have time to dwell on it..."

jean appreciates when jeremy is so very obviously attracted to jean and openly staring, but doesn't press and removes himself from the situation if he thinks he may come on too strong.

"Threat assessment, he told himself, and it was almost the truth. He needed to see the easy way Jeremy ceded Jean’s space to him. Jean couldn’t remember the last time someone allowed him any boundaries, and the feeling was as novel as it was addicting."

hello???? that is literally jean himself telling us jeremy just allowed him a boundary. how does that get looked over?

also he's content enough with jeremy in his space that he feels safe enough to almost drift off

"In the quiet he could hear Jeremy breathing, and it was almost as comforting as the heat of another body this close to his. It thawed the parts of him the sun hadn’t reached despite soaking up its glare all day. Jean closed his eyes and let his thoughts drift far away. [...] This was the first time his room truly felt safe and right, and he was content to hold onto it for as long as he could."

mind you right after this jeremy presses that jean should have his own space and jean insists jeremy share with him and get his own bed. and let's not forget the obvious flirting that has jeremy immediately backtracking and telling jean to let him know if he ever makes him uncomfortable.

ALSO THIS

“Stop asking,” Jean said. “You only think you want these answers.”

jean may find it annoying and unfavourable that jeremy keeps pressing but idk i infer this to be more of jean not knowing how to handle someone actually giving a fuck about what was done to him when he was so used to everyone turning a blind eye.

finally (bc this is getting long) jeremy pushes himself into jean's space when he hugs him, and jean doesn't hug him back but he doesn't push him away either and jeremy is the one who has to wait for jean to let go of his shirt so he can move away.

"Jeremy heard the dismissal in it, but he waited for Jean to let go of his shirt before leaving the room."

i have made a post about this before but jean craves attention and affection, he wants to be loved and to be frank he fucking deserves it more than anyone else does.

i'll finish the post with one last line from jeremy's pov...

"...it wasn't his place to interfere with Jean's trauma or his healing."

jeremy isn't perfect, he's not meant to be.

[h3llh0undz]

i am under the very firm belief that destiel was NEVER supposed to happen. everything that ever pandered to destiel was just because of the fans. it was to make the shippers happy, not because of what the characters were supposed to be. (and NO, cas telling dean he loves him doesnt make it canon. one sided i can agree, but its not canon. “dean wanted to say it back!” NO HE DIDNT?) but samdean was always ALWAYS supposed to be endgame. platonically or otherwise, this is THEIR show. (i dont really like people calling cas the third main character too. he wasnt created with the intention of being important. BUT i do like him as a character. i AM glad he stuck around, but people really over-inflate it all. thats all a conversation for a different day though). since the very beginning, sam and dean have been insane for each other. and that never changed. theyre SOULMATES for fucks sake. there is infinitely more evidence for wincest than any other ship in the show could ever conceive. people calling sam a third wheel to destiel is so fucking delusional imo. salmondean is always the duo and everyone else is secondary to them. they always leave anyone they do get involved with for each other. ship destiel if you want, its cute, but understand it is NOT real. your perceptions of characters do not affect the show.

[taliesin-the-bored]

Tag game: tag nine people you’d like to know better.

Tagged by: @oneshoulderangel (Thank you for tagging me!)

Last song: At the moment, I have "Losing Your Memory" by Alan Star stuck in my head, which I suppose makes it my current song, not my last song. Hm. I get songs stuck in my head very easily, but the last one I had there for a significant amount of time was a mashup of different language versions of "Les Rois du Monde" for about a week. "Lehetsz Király", the Magyar version, is probably my favorite of them. It's worth a listen.

Currently watching: Normally, the answer would be "random mostly terrible old movies/shows" or "nothing much", but I currently have a hyperfixation on the musical Roméo et Juliette and have been watching it in multiple languages. (Thus, the song).

Three ships: This is hard. Maybe as a result of being on the ace and aro spectrums, I'm more likely to care about which characters are interacting than whether it's romantic or platonic. Here goes:

Kedivere/Bedikay. It can be romantic, platonic, or queerplatonic, but whichever way, I'm here for it. I probably spend too much time thinking about how in Cullwch and Olwen, when Cai gets mad at Arthur and marches out, Bedwyr stays behind, keeps acting like nothing's happened, and isn't the one to avenge Cai's death. The feeling of betrayal on both sides has a lot of unexplored potential. And the version where Bedivere dies and Kay fights to bring his body back safely while mortally wounded himself... And the version where Bedivere survives Camlann and Kay isn't said to fight in it, so they might be left together after their world has fallen apart...

Platonically or queerplatonically, Galahad and the Grail Heroine. I really like the tragic Grail Quest friendships, but I like theirs most, maybe because there's something weird and otherworldly about them both. I like it when characters are strange and endearing and doomed by the narrative.

Ever since reading John Matthews' retelling, which I read before the original, I've had a soft spot for Caradoc and Guinier. The Story of Caradoc is very disturbing, and I have some major qualms with Caradoc over a detail Matthews cut out, but all the same, there's a reason these two have the best track record with magical fidelity tests. Each of them would go to the ends of the earth for the other, and together, they're stronger than any curse.

Favorite Color: Blue, particularly royal blue and some teals.

Currently consuming: Black licorice with chocolate.

First ship: This is a hard one, since through elementary and most of middle school, I tended to go along with whatever I thought the author's intentions were and was more likely to unship something. The first non-endgame ship I got invested in was Sonya/Nikolai in War and Peace. I didn't like Nikolai, but Sonya did, and she was my favorite character, so I wanted her to be happy. The first non-canon couple I thought was meant to be together was also in War and Peace: Marya Bolkonskaya and Julie Karagina. My eighth grade self did not think their letters could be interpreted platonically. I still don't.

Last movie: If the musical doesn't count, the last movie I watched was Quest for Camelot, which was awful. Though not Robot Monster-level bad, Robot Monster has an elegance to its simplicity which Quest for Camelot lacks.

Currently working on: Various fics, most of them Arthuriana or CotRK-related (I am woefully behind on the Badfic Bingo), and (theoretically) an epic-style poem, though I haven't gotten much of it written for quite a while now.

Tagging: @gawrkin, @emperorcandy, @wildbasil, @gorewound, @knightsofsomethingorother, @ladyminaofcamelot, @tasosotaso, @amashelle, @gingersnaptaff (I have no idea who's been tagged so far, apart from the people on @oneshoulderangel's post, so I apologize for any multi-tags)

[blitzwhore]

I've seen a few people over the past few days (and weeks, and months) discuss whether Stolitz is, or will be, "canon", and... I must admit, these conversations confuse me a bit.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but through the years and across various fandoms, I've always understood "canon" (with regards to a ship) to mean "are shown to be, or to have been, romantically or sexually involved in the source material".

I might be the only person who sees it this way, and if I am that's totally fair, but to me, Stolitz has always been canon. We have known that they fuck since the pilot. Episode 1 reinstates that Blitz and Stolas fuck. They have kissed on screen. Obviously, they have also pined to hell and back (ha) for one another. This is no different than, for example, Blitz x Verosika, a ship that is also canon, because the show has stated that they dated, fucked, and that Verosika loved Blitz. They are shown to have been involved romantically/sexually. An example of the opposite would be, say, Verosika x Barbie—a ship many people like, but that isn't canon (as of right now, anyway), because these characters aren't confirmed to have been involved romantically or sexually at any point.

I think a more accurate word to use in conversation to convey the "will they/won't they" arc between Stolas and Blitz is "endgame", which I understand to mean "are together by the end of the story told in the source material, and implied to stay that way indefinitely". Which, to be fair, I also see used a lot in conversations about the ship.

Again, correct me if I've understood this wrong, but as I see it, every ship that is endgame is canon, but not every ship that is canon is endgame. And once a ship is canon, you can't really de-canonise it. (I mean, you could, if you revealed it all to have been a fever dream, but you get what I mean). Stolitz has always been, and will always be canon.

More accurate words to describe what's happening between a ship such a Stolitz at different stages of their getting-together journey, I think, would be "together", "dating", "in love", "fucking", "having sex", "declaring their love to one another", "aware they love each other", or "on the same page", to name a few.

Questions like "Are Stolitz together now?" or "Does the latest song count as them declaring their love to one another?" are a lot more productive and interesting, in my humble opinion, than "Are they canon?"

[love-byers]

i had the misfortune of ending up on mileven tiktok by accident and found some gold

dude. how many times do we have to say its not the fact that they're standing next to each other. its the fact that they're standing next to each other when all the other characters are paired off with their significant other with significant space between them. they are SANDWICHED between two couples that they have numerous other parallels with. like you have to be playing dumb if you think we're just saying byler is endgame because they're in the same proximity. and WDYMMMM MIKE ISN'T EVEN LOOKING AT HIM why does that matter?? the whole point is that they're all looking forward at the fucking apocalypse beginning. nancy and jonathan weren't looking at each other, joyce and hopper weren't looking at each other. why does that matter?? and holy shit watching them try to analyze media is hilarious. the byler commenter was very concise an respectful and ofc the mlvn has to be backhanded. no, the 2 minute scene of mike saying i love you is not random, it's actually meticulously crafted so that we're able to tell mike is lying...

uhh because WILL IS THE MAIN FUCKING CHARACTER OF SEASON 5 AND THE WUOLE POINT OF AN ENDING SHOT OF A SEASON IS TO FORESHADOW THE NEXT SEASON???

do they think we're making this up???

he is the center and lead of season 5 and his arc is going to tie the whole series together. but nah they just paired him with mike and left him in the background on the hill just because el needed to be in front. they could've done a million other set ups where it actually comes off that mike and el are a team and in love and want to work together. they could've had those couples together and then had will alone or behind them and done a close up like they did with el in the actual scene, but no, he had to be with mike. and not only is he with mike, he and mike are paired off together and CENTERED. the CENTER of season 5 is CENTERED in the final shot of the season and he is standing with his long time best friend who he is desperately in love with. and all of this is foreshadowing for season 5, which if you've forgotten, is all about connection and finding belonging with others.

"People talk about mythology and The Upside Down, and all that is huge, but the magic of S5 are the characters who find a sense of belonging with other and through that connection, become heroes."

"[Season 5] It's about a group of people who question their value, who find each other, and who find superpowers in connection."

remember when mike beat himself up and questioned his value as a person because he feels weak and powerless and stupid next to el and then will gave him a painting where mike is a literal knight in shining armor and and confessed his own feelings about how mike holds everything together and makes him feel like he's better for being different and gives him the courage to keep fighting and how he'll always need mike and that finally made mike feel reassured

yeah...

alright you guys have to be lying. you can't think of a single reason why people would ship byler?? not a one??? you know what actually, you're right. why on earth would people ship two characters where one is canonically in love with the other, they've been best friends since the first day of kindergarten, they are always a duo, they have a special friendship compared to the others, one said asking the other to be his friend is the best thing he's ever done, one thinks home isn't the same without the other, they hold hands, put their arms around each other, always look out for each other, etc etc ETC. no yeah i don't see it

was the person who confirmed this named mike wheeler...

no yeah we just say random things. those of us using the knowledge we gained in film school/creative writing school to analyze a form of media are just saying random things. i just love making shit up!

mlvns are so silly lol like they really think they know more about film/writing than people who STUDY IT AND DO IT FOR A LIVING

[moon-ayyye]

There are a lot of What-ifs when it comes to jason todd. What would've happened if bruce didn't take jason in? what if jason was taken in by selina and became stray? what if jason didn't die?what if jason was found before the lazarus pit? but one that i don't see at all is what if jason didn't come back and just stayed with the All Caste?

The Lost Days arc would go about the same as in canon (without the talia thing because ew), but after the car bomb thing doesn't pan out jason just starts looking into the batfam more. He sees his dad for the first time in years. He forgets everything and considers coming back home.

But then he finds out how his death was handled

Of course he'd still be pissed off about tim becoming robin, but more than that bruce and dick spun it so people though tim was the second robin. Jason's whole identity was usurped, and was prompted by alfred of all people. Add to that the memorial case and the victim blaming, as well as him not having a memorial in titans tower and tim talking shit about him every chance he gets and jason starts to lose hope. But these things could be fixed! These could all be explained away as emotionally incompetent people compartmentaling in order to get over their grief! right?

Then he finds the footage of dick killing the joker for tim. Sure, the joker taunted dick using jason's memory, but it was him thinking tim was dwad that really set him off. The final nail in the coffin would be bruce reviving the joker. Jason now has proof that 1. tim was indeed his replacement, and 2. Bruce's morals and dick's clean hands are worth more than his mangled corpse.

He scraps all of his plans because now he KNOWS that bruce would never kill the joker for him. Disillusioned with bruce and gotham in general, he sneaks into arkham and pits a bullet in the joker's skull, then goes to the all caste for training. If they didn't care about him, why should he care about them?

I think ducra would be less wary about training jason in this au, since his drive for revenge had dissipated, and he wouldn't "bring great evil into this world."

Since ducra wouldn't really show favouritism to jason, since he isn't as much of a flight risk or a time bomb, i think his and essence's relationship would go way better than in canon. Their main points of contention were jason leaving the caste and ducra's favouritism, and without those 2 factors, their relationship could actually flourish.

Due to the all blades being linked to the soul, it would make sense if the caste taught soul magic. This would make jason a way better fighter than any baseline vigilante or assassin. Maybe he could use his abilities to hide his body language to avoid shiva and cass' ability? The all caste doesn't get massacred here, so he learns how to really socialise, talk with people with different experiences, so he could occasionally go back to the alley or the hill to reconnect with his old friends, like dana or numbers, since he wouldn't push people away like in canon.

The untitled wouldn't be as big of a threat as they were in RHatO since there are way more people available, and jason being super trained, so maybe jason would adopt a new vigilante identity to help people on a more personal level. He considers going by Red Hood, as a taunt to the man that killed him, but he doesn't like it. It's a remnant of a past he'd rather forget. Maybe he'd go by cardinal, but he doesn't want to be associated with a bird anymore. I think marauder would be a really good name for him, a man who goes around looking for things to steal and people to fight.

You can have him interact with some justice league dark members, especially Constantine since I really like their dynamic, and he could deal with hellspawns since he wields the allblades now.

JayEssence is a rarepair, which is a shame since i think these 2 could have a really interesting dynamic if written properly, so I'd probably go with that as the endgame ship, but you could work in so many of his ships. JayRose? childhood friends on the titans who reconnected after jason studied under slade for a bit. JayEddie? same thing but they reconnect in hell. Jaytemis? they could run into eachother during a mission and they'd recognise death anywhere. enemies to reluctant allies to lovers. JayDana? classic childhood friends to lovers. The possibilities are endless

[mcfuckity]

You know what? Im breaking my silence. Im TIRED of people missing Jess’ character on purpose. Like, everyone can use context clues and fill in the blanks for every other character but somehow Jess is the only one taken at face value? Jess is being seen as a cold, detached, mean bitch by fans but I cannot determine whether we even watched the same movie.

Let’s address the elephant in the room, because she is a black woman who is NOT a mammy character, people criticize her harsher. Jess was MORE than Miguel’s “lackey”. She had her own thoughts and opinions. She definitely had her own personality and feelings about the entire situation. She lowkey stalled time to give Gwen chances to fix her mistakes.

If Jess was as cold as Miguel and such a “bitch”, she would’ve left Gwen the first time. Let’s not forget that Miguel was fully about to leave Gwen with her own father holding her at gunpoint, JESS vouched to bring Gwen under her name. Jess put her OWN position at risk to help Gwen and it required that she do her job accordingly. Jess made the boundary VERY clear, she is NOT Gwen’s mother. She is NOT her friend. I seen people argue that “Jess’ maternal instincts” should’ve kicked in to protect Gwen” but fully ignoring that Jess HAS A FAMILY! Jess is PREGNANT with her OWN child. Her instincts DID kick in and she chose her dimension with her family in it!

Jess was stuck in a rock and a hard place. She obviously wanted to help Gwen (considering she brought her in at the cost of her own position) but UNFORTUNATELY, GWEN messed up. Gwen saw Miles and that ultimately led to Spot escaping. You can love these characters and acknowledge that every character had their OWN thoughts and motivations that led to fuck ups. It’s not right to try to make Jess sound worse than the man who fuckin replaced his dead self out of grief, was about to leave a teen at gunpoint, and had an entire society of people chase a teenager who wanted to save his dad.

Don’t get me started on the “she’s fighting crime while pregnant argument” because we can accept superpowered people but NOT the possibility that their bodies are more resilient. NOT TO MENTION THAT PETER B HAS A WHOLE BABY ON MISSIONS???? Like, no one is calling him a bad father so what’s different with Jess? Miguel was mean as fuck to Miles upon meeting but Jess doing her JOB is considered being “mean”.

Then the “I didn’t see her enough to connect with her” is fair until everyone can somehow create entire {TERRIBLE} mischaracterizations of Hobie, Pav, and Peni who (arguably) had just about the same amount of screentime. She also shares traits with every other spider person with being snarky and quick-witted while being completely grounded. She’s literally one of the spider people that Miguel fully trusts but somehow the fandom erases her and goes “He loves Peter B and Lego Spidey🤪🤪”

Like, it’s crazy how people find it so easy to erase Jess and Margo (Spiderbyte) in fanworks for things they easily dismiss from other characters and it’s feelin like misogynoir. Like, Margo and Hobie served the same purpose with deciding to go against Miguel for Miles, yet only Hobie and Gwen gets that credit.

AND THEN THE MANY EXCUSES WHEN IT COMES TO SHIPPING! People keep hating on Jess/Miguel because she’s “obviously pregnant and married” but go right around and ship Miguel with Peter B. Same with Margo/Miles because it’s a bunch of “Miles and Gwen are obviously endgame” ANDDDD???? Since when did every ship HAVE TO be canon in order to be a ship? It’s especially crazy because I BARELY EVER see those comments on Miles/(Peni, Pav, or Hobie) or have no problem with having all the boys huddled around Gwen. The double standard is glaringly obvious.

In conclusion, some of you mfs dont deserve ATSV.

[fallenfrommars6277]

Okay, I've seen the cameo where George hints at Edwin's "first adult experience" with the Cat King and I wish to share my two cents about it.

First of all, disregarding which pair anyone ships, I believe we can safely say that Payneland will eventually be endgame: it is left as an option by Charles in Hell, it is hinted in the show and it is basically sustained by Jayden and George themselves.

I am, for one, a Payneland shipper. I admit that at first I wanted them to stay just friends because I am a sucker for great friendship stories, but rewatch after rewatch I started to see them as soulmates in a romantic kinda way.

Nevertheless, I think (and honestly have thought since the beginning, not just because they said that now) that it would be great to see how Catwin would evolve and in particular I think it's just right that Edwin has his first experiences with the Cat King, maybe not straight away sex, but in general intimate experiences.

Let me explain.

Yes, it would be nice to see Edwin and Charles getting together and awkwardly kissing and having together their first intimacies: it would be a first for both of them, because I believe that while Charles may have fooled around a bit, he didn't ever actually make love to anyone, let alone a boy. So it would be all romantic and gentle and blushing virgins and it absolutely would be great.

BUT.

Both Edwin and Charles are on a journey to self discovery, in general but especially in the love and sexuality area, but they are at different stages of it. While Edwin has been repressed for over a century, he has been now awakened (by Charles, by Monty and above all by the Cat King) to feelings and sensations and wants that he now needs and IS READY to fulfil.

On the other hand, Charles isn't there yet, he just now learns that his best mate is in love with him and he feels nothing but love and adoration towards him but he fundamentally doesn't know what actual love (as in being in love with someone and being the one someone is in love with) looks and feels like, also they're both guys and while he has been nothing but supportive of Edwin about him coming to terms with his homosexuality, considering the time and especially the household in which he lived in, I don't think he wouldn't have problems realizing and admitting to himself that he is bisexual (I know it's not canon, but come on) or at least that he fancies another boy. And even when this happens, I think that he would have a lot of holding back, being insecure about his "ability" to love and not wanting to hurt Edwin.

That said, I think that Edwin has always loved and will always love only Charles, but it is only fair for him now to start having his experiences and exploring his sexuality and, while Edwin and Charles have been a whole for over 30 years, doing everything together, I believe this is something he has to do by himself and the best person with whom to do this is the Cat King because they're both attracted to each other, because the CK is very experienced and I think this would be someway reassuring for Edwin (like he's doing this, he's experimenting with someone who knows very well what he's doing), because the CK would never be judgemental of his inexperience, and above all because the CK cares about him, but also knows that no matter how much he can care about him and be affectionate towards him and even love him, he will never actually have him because Edwin's heart belongs to Charles since that night in the attic.

I expect (yes, I'm talking like this is actually happening because maybe I'm delusional but I've not given up hope yet about a second season) that while Edwin does this and experiments and learns things about a part of himself that has always been hidden and repressed, Charles someway does the same, of course not realizing that he wants to have sexual experiences because he is, if not actually experienced, more acquainted with this "area", but that he has to explore his sexuality to understand how he can fit loving Edwin into it and then actually act upon this, but to do this he also needs to find a way to separate himself from his father, from his painful childhood, and control his anger and navigate and accept his own emotions, all the shades of them, to start appreciating himself and considering himself worth of loving and being loved.

In conclusion, as I said before, they both are going through a journey, but while Edwin's at the end of his and is ready for what comes next, Charles has just now started it, so it's just right that just this once they don't do this together, because they KNOW that even if they take metaphorically different roads, they eventually will find each other at the finish line.

[lemotmo]

Yes to all and fascinating 🎉🎉

Q. Do you really think Buddie is happening? There is just so much evidence to suggest otherwise that I cannot bring myself to believe it's ever going to be a thing.

A. Where is this overwhelming amount of evidence that you speak of? How did I miss all the evidence? You certainly didn't provide any evidence in your ask. In fact the only 'evidence' that ever gets stated is "Ryan's dad said it's not happening'". That's it. That's all anyone ever has to offer up as proof it's not happening. A select few will go the even more ridiculous route and say "Lou said Ryan wasn't into it". I cannot believe I missed the meeting where it was decided that an actor's father, who the actor himself has suggested he has a rather complicated relationship with, and the man who wanted his job are used as the voices of truth and fact over the actors own words. The Ryan stuff in general is wild in this fandom. Oliver's quotes are taken as fact. He gets credit for his own voice. Why does Ryan not get the same credit in return? Oliver says he's up for it if that is the direction the show decides to take them in. Response: "yay Oliver wants Buddie"! Ryan says he's up for it if that's the direction the show decides to take them in. Response : "well he's not going to tell us he doesn't want it to happen". What's the difference between the two answers? They both have said the same thing and they've said it repeatedly. Why does Oliver get credit for saying it but Ryan gets discredited in favor of his father and the leech who wanted his job? It makes absolutely no sense. The only thing Ryan added to his response was that he was good with whatever direction as long as the show didn't lose their friendship at the core. That is not a fancy way to say 'I just want them to stay friends'. That's how you say a romance between them would be great but please don't ever forget that they are also best friends. People taking that response and bastardizing it to make it sound like something he didn't say is not Ryan's fault. I don't want their friendship to be erased when they turn romantic, most of us don't. Their friendship is their foundation and it's what brought people in in the first place. No one should want that erased once they go canon. That's all he was saying. I do believe Buddie is happening and I believe there is overwhelming evidence to support the belief that Buddie is happening.

The nonsense with his father's Buddie answer happened years ago, that is not a recent answer, and while the show was fully owned and controlled by FOX. It has been fairly well established since then that the plan was for them to go canon as a result of the Ana/ shooting arc. Which means Ryan and Oliver went into the beginning of that storyline with the full knowledge that the outcome would be Buddie. Clearly Ryan was down for that. He played it that way. The panic attack in the store when Ana was referred to as 'mom'. The conversation with Carla about making sure he followed his own heart and not just Christopher's. The entire shooting scene! The way Eddie's only response was to check to see if Buck was also hurt. The way Buck arrives at the hospital when Eddie wakes up. The will reveal conversation. The break up scene and dialogue between Eddie and Ana. It was clearly where it was supposed to go. Somewhere between conception and completion FOX stopped it, we don't know for sure why. Studio execs may have cut the storyline but they clearly didn't demand scenes be rewritten or re shot so Tim and the show kept the dialogue and framing of the scenes the same, an intentional choice on their part because I believe he always intended to come back to Buddie. The only thing I'm not sure of timing wise is the Taylor of it all. I don't know at what point she was re added into the mix, but that was when the show started trying very hard to make her a viable endgame option for Buck. Oliver never really got on board with that ship though so it was a hard sell, but Kristen and the show tried very hard to make it sail. I don't believe Eddie was brought in for Buck from the very beginning, but I do think it became very clear to Tim, and the others, fairly early on that the chemistry between Oliver and Ryan afforded them options they may not have ever intended. As a result I think Tim, as well as Oliver and Ryan, started leaning into and playing around with the chemistry. You cannot fake chemistry. It either exists or it doesn't. If you're a good enough actor you can fake it to an extent if you're willing to work at it, but the effortless chemistry that Oliver and Ryan have together is not easy to find.

At some point in maybe season 3 or early 4, I would guess, I think Tim decided Buck and Eddie would be each other's endgame, but that he might have to hold it specifically for the series finale. He has said before he was holding off on definitively defining their relationship because the show is not over. He gave it a shot with the shooting arc but once that was snipped I think he moved forward knowing how their story was going to end, but with the belief he was going to have to save it for the end. The show being controlled by the FOX network didn't leave him a ton of other options. Because he always had the end goal in mind he treated all their other relationships as temporary, and as a result very little effort has been put into any of them. But while they were dating other people their relationship with each other, and the family unit they built with Christopher, was given attention and depth and continued to grow and blossom. Their unit was clearly the priority. That's what got the story focus, but putting each of them in separate relationships, that got very little focus, at least gave Tim plausible deniability that he was trying to set up Buddie. Everything changed when they were freed from FOX.

Moving to ABC gave Tim options. It was clear the moment the network started promoting the show that they were fully on board with the Buddie of it all. They were basically the entire marketing campaign for season 7. Every single episode was promoted with Buddie content. I still firmly believe they were the plan for season 7. You can misinterpret episode 7x4 all you want but it was clearly about Eddie and Buck's unrealized feelings for him. Tommy was the red hearing. A way he could explain to himself why he got so carried away with jealousy without having to acknowledge or examine the Eddie of it all. The episode was not subtle. The show was basically waving a giant YOU HAVE FEELINGS FOR EDDIE flag around all season long. Actual Buck focus disappeared entirely after that episode and he was used almost exclusively in Eddie's storyline. He just realized this major thing about himself and his new found relationship and status got zero focus because the show wanted the audience to remember that his relationship with Eddie was still the priority. Eddie and Buck as a unit was still the focus. I have made no secret about what a disaster I think the back half of season 7 was, especially the finale, my god that was a terrible episode of television. I think Tim eventually came around to that realization as well because he spent the first half of season 8 undoing all the nonsense the rewrites in season 7 created. He got Maya reunited with her family, got Bobby back as captain, and split Buck and Tommy. All the while he was cleaning up the season 7 mess though he allowed the first part of season 8 to be overrun by Brad. I liked Brad, I really did, but his focus took away from the genuinely needed forward motion on the Eddie storyline. That has to be corrected in the back half of the season. I 100% believe Buddie is the plan, and is coming sooner rather than later, and for the most part Buck has been put in position. He has arrived at the beginning of his realization. Eddie is not quite there yet though. He's stuck in the Christopher situation. Not everything needs to be resolved and closed before he can be ready for Buck, that's an unfair demand to make of his character and a television show, but the Christopher situation needs to at least be moving forward. Eddie has enough information about his own feelings to not be too far behind Buck in his realization, but he's blinded right now by the Christopher situation. Eddie needs focus first. It's way past time for some Eddie centric storylines. Let him spend a couple of episodes on himself. The Buck realization can come while that stuff is going on, in fact it would make sense for Eddie to realize his feelings while he's in Texas. But even if the show doesn't do it while he's in Texas, Buddie is coming. They have intentionally avoided, sidestepped, or not even bothered trying at all, with any kind of viable alternative for either character. They're not interested in anyone else for them. And now they're at a network that isn't forcing their hand to go another way. They just have to clean up some thing first.

If you don't want it to happen that's fine. Your preference is your business and your right. But people need to stop pretending they're only saying it's not happening because it's the obvious answer. The obvious answer is the contrary in fact. All the legitimate evidence we have points to it being inevitable. A bullshit answer from a parent, who has no direct involvement with the show, and a laughably predictable response from a man who wanted his job, is not the winning hand you all seem to think it is.

Thank you for this Nonny! I needed a post like this to reply to. There has been so much discourse lately and I miss the fandom positivity a lot. This is definitely a great read! 🤗

So, first I'll add my disclaimer:

BUDDIE IS 100% HAPPENING.

There, I said it. Feels good too. 🤗

I don't understand what on Earth that anon was talking about with the whole 'evidence to suggest otherwise'? Do tell, where is that evidence to be found.

Because from where I'm standing there is a mountain of evidence that Buddie is happening. I'm not entirely sure of the timeline, but I have never been more sure that it's happening. I've been here since 2018-2019 and for the longest of time I was certain it would always stay a fanon ship.

But then the move to ABC and all the Buddie promo happened, combined with bi-Buck. And seeing how Eddie was EVERYWHERE in Buck's bi storyline, even when he was in a 'relationship' with some other guy, Eddie was still firmly in first place.

It was soooo obvious. From the get-go so many of us have been saying that T was a plot device to start the Buddie arc. And lo and behold... look what happened! Turns out that T was indeed a plot device! We were right! Go figure!🤷‍♀️

I think Buck's realisation that he is in love with Eddie will come quite early on in 8b, since we've already seen some of his reaction when Eddie told him he's leaving for El Paso. He'll spin out of control and finally realise why.

As for Eddie? I don't know. I'm sure he's going to be in El Paso for a few episodes to confront his parents, make up with Chris and maybe find himself in the process? I really haven't a clue about the timeline here. I will all depend on how long they'll want to draw things out. Knowing Tim, this might take a while. 🫠

But ultimately, I don't care. I'm just cruising along, waiting for March so we can get this show on the road. 🙂‍↕️

Heads up! For anyone who is giving me the shifty eyes for reposting Ali's updates instead of reblogging. Read this.

Remember, no hate in comments, reblogs or inboxes. Let's keep it civil and respectful. Thank you.

If you are interested in more of Ali’s posts, you can find all of her posts so far under the tag: anonymous blog I love.

[teenwolf-confessions]

It felt like they spent too long "testing" out different love interests for him to see what would be the most popular, but that also meant the fandom got more divided since there were more options (especially with the queerbaiting!) This also meant his canon romantic relationships never felt satisfying because they'd just be hastily written away for another ship that was more popular (i.e. stalia to stydia). By the time they finally committed to an endgame, DOB was basically off the show anyways, so we barely saw any stydia at all.

The result? Everyone is annoyed and they take out that frustration on each other.

[siflshonen]

I’d love to interpret bkdk as romantic but I will be honest, it is difficult to do when a het ship is being hinted at more explicitly. I’m still glad Horikoshi did not include a full-on confession though. We can do what we want in fics without having to rework canon.

Love your posts, thank you for your wonderful insights into bkdk. Your meta is always well-done.

I know this ask was originally meant for someone else, and you’re absolutely right that bakuhatsufallinlove does fantastic meta. You’re very wise to see how great of a job they do and it’s kind of you to say so. It’s also very kind of you to read my posts.

I’m about to not be quite so kind.

I hate Izuocha. And I’m annoyed by the insinuation that Ochako breaking down in tears over Himiko to Izuku - her big moment of bearing her emotions out in the open to him - is seen as an endgame romance, especially since the only other detail we have to go off of is Ochako smiling at Izuku in their hero suits when Todoroki is kinda doing the same thing, AND when I should DAMN WELL hope Ochako and Izuku are still friends and looking out for each other, especially since they bonded over the traumatic deaths of those they failed to save.

I’m insulted that Ochako’s confessions to Himiko are disregarded like that, or the tumultuous chaos she grapples with in her heart is brushed aside. I’m insulted by the insinuation that Ochako’s known love of seeing happy, smiling people is not acknowledged and instead her expressing joy over seeing that on Izuku’s face is painted over as being implied, for-sure romantic endgame. Maybe it is, sure. Anything is possible. I’m sure Himiko wants the best for Ochako and for her to be happy, and would probably think it was romantic that her feelings also reached Izuku by way of Ochako as being someone they mutually loved.

But Himiko is dead and it ripped Ochako apart, and her reaction to that is the last in-depth look we get at her feelings. Izuku recognizing that Ochako is a hero in her own right (not a heroine, aka a damsel for the hero to save and then end up with romantically per Japanese storytelling roles, not just “a female hero” like we think of it in English) is gratifying and wonderful. And I’m insulted by the insinuation that just because Izuku acknowledges that Ochako is and has been his hero and always saved him that this must mean that they are implied to be the romantic endgame. God forbid they mutually admire each other and respect each other and the story just ends there, and god forbid Izuku calling her his hero sends a totally different message.

Now, as for Katsuki. You cannot tell me that he doesn’t have some kind of deep feelings for Izuku. @bakuhatsufallinlove has posted extensively about unspoken feelings with a likewise unspoken understanding are common for Japanese romances, but I’ll admit I’m not here to talk about that.

Do you really want to tell me that Horikoshi-sensei allowing Katsuki and Izuku to keep their arms and have an implied handhold at the end doesn’t mean as much as whatever the fuck Ochako is doing in the final panel?

In Naruto, which BNHA takes many cues from, Sasuke and Naruto had their arms ripped off because the editor didn’t approve of the two of them holding hands in panel. Apparently, that’s too romantic and inappropriate for the male leads of a shonen. Given that, how interesting that the doctor recommended that Katsuki’s hand-holding arm be amputated. How interesting that Katsuki refuses. How interesting that Katsuki refuses while thinking not just of All Might, probably not really of All Might, but Izuku. How interesting that Izuku also keeps both arms, and we as readers are very certain they held hands even if it is not shown.

How interesting that Katsuki is not just the heart of Izuku’s mech suit project (and, in some respects, of the class,) but of Izuku’s image of victory, Izuku’s “Pro Hero with a quirk” origin, the heart of what he believes a real hero is like, and the literal actual heart of what he wanted to defend from ShigAFO multiple times over. How interesting that Katsuki’s story is in part him learning how to not be a burden to Izuku or used against him like, say, a heroine-damsel-in-distress might be used, AND it is also in part him learning to come to terms with his feelings for Izuku. In fact, we spend basically the whole manga dwelling on this with him. It’s that important that he reconciled Izuku with his heart and desires.

Izuku, who is so tearfully happy that Katsuki wants to be with him for the rest of their lives in whatever form that takes, even when they weren’t sure he was going to have a quirk and be able to be Katsuki’s superhero rival. Izuku, who is so happy to be with Kacchan and the class as a hero again, in part BECAUSE it is with Kacchan………….and everyone else on the next page.

Nothing is for sure. Nobody kissed or got married or whatever, sure. But you really want to tell me Izuocha is more heavily implied based on the ending?

Thanks for the ask. I’m sorry you feel that way. Get off my lawn.

[tiredandoptimistic]

The Shadowhunter Chronicles Fandom Survey

Hey squad, I made a survey! (Link here). It's got a bunch of different categories related to TSC (best series, best ship, best villain, etc), and allows ranked choice voting so you can say what your favorites and least favorites are in each category.

This doesn't serve an official purpose, I just have a lot of vague impressions about what is and isn't popular in this fandom and wanna see if it matches up with what people actually think. I'll publish the data after a little while, and if you'd help in the meantime by filling it out and reblogging this post so more people see it, I'd be most appreciative! I really want to get this around to every corner of the fandom if possible, since we've got so many different things going on.

Also, for the ship questions, I only included canon endgame ships (with the exception of Herongraystairs, because it's basically canon and I really wanna see how Wessa vs Jessa vs Herongraystairs fair in the hearts of the people; and Gracetopher, because they're canonically each other's Most Special Guy and it's not like they have other endgames).

If enough people are interested, then I might make a bunch of polls that are more series specific and include stuff with less basis in canon (like a TMI quiz that lets you choose between Clace and Jimon and Clizzy). So sound off if that's something you wanna see.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to enter So Many Tags.

Editing to say that it works a lot better on a computer than on mobile!

[hell-is-not-an-excuse]

Helluva Boss versus Achillean Relationships || Chaxxie [1/3]

Let me preface this by saying that I know I'm not the first person to point this out, and I certainly won't be the last. However, it's something that's been tugging at me for a while now. That "something" of course, being the portrayal of MLM/achillean relationships within the Hellaverse, and how they're favoured over everything while bordering into the fetishistic.

I'm going to be the first to admit I have not watched the entirety of Hazbin Hotel. Hell, I made it to the first five or so minutes of the first episode before unceremoniously quitting around the "this body was made to be exploited" line. I'll have a separate post on that later, since my thoughts on that (and Angel Dust as a character, by extension) are long winded and not the focus of this particular post.

So, for today, I will be focusing on one of the three canon MLM ships within Helluva Boss specifically. For the purpose of this post series, I will only be including the ships that have two characters that are named within the series. This narrows us down to Chaxxie, Fizzozzie and Stolitz (which is not technically canon but is clearly endgame, unless the writers are waiting with bated breath to pull the rug out from underneath the audience).

This time I will be talking about Chaxxie, as it's the least touched-upon relationship in the show itself; not only because it's the only past relationship on this list, but it's also the only relationship that contains a one-off character. And yet, I found the lack of chemistry so offensively boring that I felt the need to make a whole post just about them.

So, Chaxxie. There's not a whole lot to talk about with their relationship, as all we get is just over a minute of backstory and a song that screams "unable to take no for an answer". I suppose I could also include their sham almost-wedding, but that comes off less as a shipping moment and more a plot beat, and thus will be disregarded. Even so, I apparently had way more to say about them and the implications of their relationship than I thought, so this post will be long.

Before that however, there's the obvious elephant in the room - Chaz and Millie. Despite being the ex of both Millie and Moxxie, we as the audience never get a perspective of what the relationship between Millie and Chaz even looked like. Not even a throwaway line from Millie herself. Given that Helluva Boss has suffered from a lack of precise characterising of its women up until this point, this is another glaring example to add to the long-suffering pattern.

But what about Moxxie? What do we get as the audience?

In the first of two flashback scenes, we're informed that Chaz and Moxxie meet during Moxxie's induction into the Knolastname crime family. They meet eyes, and Moxxie is charmed right off the bat.

This springboards us into four different instances of the supposed chemistry that these two share with one another, the first being a gunfight in which Moxxie and Chaz reach for the same grenade, with all the flirtation and blushing that could be fit into the few seconds allotted for this sequence.

From there, the sexual intensity ramps up in the next two shots before settling back down into a nude portrait scene reminiscent of Titanic.

In terms of learning about their relationship, we as the audience don't glean much from these scenes, other than the fact that they have an incredibly sexual dynamic. One could also infer that their relationship started as a secret given the request to not tell Crimson that Chaz was at the door in the signage scene, though this is never properly expanded on.

Now, before we venture into the second half of my Chaxxie critique, I want to make two things clear; there is nothing wrong with a couple having an incredibly active sex life. This is true for any pairing with consenting adults, be it Achillean, Sapphic or Hetero. This is something I will expand on momentarily. Second is that despite my griping of the overtly sexual nature of their relationship, I don't find these examples to be "too sexual". By all means, this is quite tame imagery, at least to me. I bring these examples up primarily to highlight that Chaxxie as a ship suffers from sacrificing chemistry for sexuality (whether that be in a manner meant to be comedic, or genuinely sexy).

Back to our flashbacks. In our second and final flashback scene, we are given the unceremonious ending to their relationship. In the midst of a heist, Moxxie is pinned and unable to escape the scene of the crime, as police sirens wail in the distance. Chaz, in a selfish move, makes a grab for the money and leaves Moxxie to the authorities, effectively ending their relationship. This is presented as a great heartbreak for Moxxie, but due to the issues highlighted above, this reveal falls flat.

Moxxie doesn't appear to struggle with feelings of self-worth in the romantic department; this is evident in the way he interacts with Millie, self-assured in his love for her and her love for him. One would think that if this relationship with Chaz was so important to him, that there would be some sort of foreshadowing or hints regarding the feelings or issues that would have been bound to have sprung up as a result of Chaz and his abandonment.

I will concede here, Moxxie not wanting to talk about his past is a fine enough example of why Chaz wouldn't come up in conversation prior to this episode. However, if we as the audience are meant to believe that this relationship was that important to him, it would have been nice to add a hint of abandonment issues to Moxxie as a character.

This could also have had a possible added effect of explaining why Moxxie isn't so quick to leave Blitzø or I.M.P despite his treatment - Blitzø and Loona may be awful to Moxxie, but at least they don't abandon him. At least Blitzø throws crumbs of praise his way. At least Loona comes along with Millie to rescue him and Blitzø from the D.H.O.R.K.S.

Unfortunately, we're still not done here with the Chaxxie scenes, as the biggest and most glaring issue with this ship as a whole comes in at around the fifteen minute mark.

I'll start with the least consequential of my critiques - This scene is just not funny. The punchlines essentially amount to sex, big dick, and the mounting discomfort that Moxxie feels while he repeatedly insists that Chaz leave him alone. There are ways to comedically write a character being uncomfortable with sex or sexual implications/situations. Blatant harassment is not one of them.

Speaking of blatant harassment, this is the moment that any semblance of this ship being worth my time fell apart. The writing is done using Chaxxie as a ham-fisted attempt at giving Moxxie further backstory (at the cost of Millie once again) and is now beginning to decline into the outright uncomfortable.

Even before he begins his song, Moxxie outright tells Chaz to leave. Of course, Chaz completely disregards his demands to be left alone, insisting that he knows exactly what Moxxie wants. This is a common line used by real life sexual abusers against their victims - and yes, though Chaz never actually forces himself onto Moxxie in an explicit manner, his following song is filled with unwanted touch and crude, overtly sexual language.

Look me in the eyes and tell me that Moxxie is enjoying this experience even remotely. He looks put off, alarmed, uncomfortable. And yet this scene is played for comedy, for some reason. This is not the first instance of Moxxie being sexually abused or harassed for comedy either. Even back in Season One, this poor guy was being used for the sort of joke that should have died out years ago.

Overall thoughts on Chaxxie and their contribution to MLM representation.

Do I think Chaz and Moxxie are good queer representation? The easy, fast answer is a resounding "No". Their relationship lacks any sort of depth in canon and looks to be just another vehicle for gay sex jokes, partnered with yet another excuse to harass Moxxie for laughs.

On a slightly longer note, I find them not only to be lackluster representation, but yet another instance in the growing pattern of Vivziepop's achillean ships being either based on sex, or having a heavy emphasis on sex that isn't afforded to her sapphic or hetero pairings. This isn't to say that the other achillean ships don't have moments that are fluffier or not purely focused on sex (after all, Chaxxie is the worst offender of being a pairing based on nothing but sex from a writing standpoint), but the discrepancy between the amount of sex talk from Chaggie and Millie/Moxxie as compared to Fizzozzie, Stolitz and Chaxxie is stark.

It's hard to say exactly what goes on in the heads of the writers, and I am not here to speculate on what they may be thinking at all times. However, the writing behind Chaxxie as a pairing specifically (in the past or not) leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. The inclusion of Chaz does nothing to further Moxxie's character and seems more like a segue into making his bisexuality explicit, rather than taking the time to explore his attraction to men and past relationships meaningfully. Their past relationship is shallow at best, giving me no real reason to care about its end, and does a disservice to the already limited representation in Helluva Boss by painting yet another portrait of a lustful, but ultimately loveless feeling relationship.

[am-i-the-asshole-official]

AITA for asking someone not to make my art about a ship I hate?

This happened a couple months ago, but I’m still kinda unsure if I handled it correctly.

Basic rundown of events: I posted some art of a character on their own in the evening, and when I woke up the next morning, someone had reblogged with an addition about a ship that’s a big notp for me. I messaged them to ask they delete it as politely as possible, because people had been interacting with that version of the post specifically and it made me uncomfortable. They responded by saying I was being immature and needed to learn not to police what other people do on the internet. We exchanged a couple more messages, and I tried to explain my position my throughly. Neither of us was overtly hostile or anything, but I felt extremely talked down to by their tone of voice. After our conversation, we both blocked each other, and that was that. They never did delete their addition.

Why I think I might be TA: we weren’t exactly friends or anything. Neither of us followed each other. I’d seen them around in the fandom, and they’d reblogged some of my art in the past, but I think messaging someone I didn’t know instead of just blocking them might have been a bit of an overreach. Plus the ship in question is canon, and not particularly controversial or anything, so most people in the fandom probably wouldn’t have minded.

On the other hand, the ship being so unavoidable is a big part of the reason it upset me so much. It’s hard for me to exist in this fandom without having to see it constantly, and I don’t even ever mention the other character in it for fear of this exact thing happening. I’ve had people be assholes on my posts about the ship I prefer, or go out of their way to interpret my romantic posts about them platonically, or add tags to my art about how they only like my ship as backstory and not endgame. I don’t want to have to put a disclaimer every single time I post about this fandom. I just want to enjoy the things I like without being negative all the time. Which is why I figured messaging privately was more polite than making a stink where everyone could see. I specifically mentioned that I knew they wouldn’t have known and wasn’t mad.

No one actually ended up reblogging their addition, which is also a strike against me, but I got a lot of likes on specifically that version of the post, which made me scared they were going to. I hated the idea of having to turn off reblogs on a piece I’d worked pretty fucking hard on because a version I found so upsetting was in circulation. If it was just tags, I’d have blocked, but it being an addition is different. I don’t think asking people not to make my posts about it is “policing what other people do on the internet”. You’re in MY house, on MY post with MY art I spent hours on. Making additions to art posts already seems somewhat rude to me, that’s just not something you do, but I guess that’s a matter of the corner of tumblr culture you’re used it.

Also, their response felt very aggressive and condescending. They implied I was, like, a kid, and I do think I’m somewhat younger than them, but the only information about my age in my bio at the time was that I’m an adult, so it felt like a rude assumption. My age doesn’t have anything to do with it.

Again, though, I do absolutely see how my initial message could read as entitled. During the rest of our messaging, I did lose my temper a little bit at one point; I said something about how I’ve had to deal with shit in this fandom before, and I don’t remember the exact words since, again, we both blocked each other, but I know I swore at them. That might’ve come across as more aggressive than I wanted, and probably didn’t exactly help deescalate. (Can’t say for sure, I don’t have their side of the story)

Like I said, this situation was a bit ago now, but it upset me pretty bad at the time, and I’m still not entirely sure who’s in the wrong. So, AITA?

(Also to get ahead of this: please don’t make this about shipcourse in the comments. It’s not about that. They and I have similar opinions on that discourse from what I’ve gathered anyway. Thanks.)

What are these acronyms?

[lover-of-mine]

What do you think the difference is between buddie shippers who enjoyed tommy's part in the bi!buck reveal but are still rooting for buddie and are maybe even annoyed by buck/tommy now and buddie shippers who took to buck/tommy so much that they basically stopped rooting for buddie endgame? Cause I'm in the first group and genuinely don't understand how you'd end up in the second. Did they only like buddie cause it was THE fanon ship? Did they only like it cause it would be a ~hot mlm ship~ but now there is a better one? Were they just never as invested?

Look honey, I went back and forth if I wanted to answer this or not. I have no problem with people who ship both. I don't think it is some sin or crazy character flaw or whatever, enjoy whatever the fuck, yk? My thing is and always will be the insistence in pretending Tommy is more than he is that some people refuse to let go. Is the fact that I'm getting called homophobic for not liking Tommy, a fictional character with a history of bigotry, while someone had the nerve to bring the aids crisis to the middle of a discussion of who should get to kiss a stupid fictional guy. Tommy is a device to Buck's bisexuality, the show never tried to make him as more, Oliver was talking about their breakup in the post 704 interviews, Tim called it a fling, an entry level relationship, and I think enjoying the ship for what it is is fine. The problem is that there was a month between 704 and 706 where people, aided by Lou and the cameos, created a Tommy who's not the Tommy we are seeing, and they assigned an importance to that man that's just not what the show wants to do with him. My problem is the people calling 802 boring because they deluded themselves into believing the show was hiding Lou because he was filming with Angela and are pissed that Tommy didn't land the plane. My problem is the fact that I am being called names since fucking march over a guy, a relationship with 24 minutes of screentime where not even half of those are actually framed as being about the relationship. There's nothing beyond the fact that they are a queer relationship to be invested in. And I don't like hearing that I need to shut up about buddie and respect Buck's choices because he's in a relationship now and suddenly have to respect canon and that it's disgusting for me to see Tommy as a plot device who served his purpose already, when no one had that energy with Buck's previous relationships. I don't like the hysteria people dropped themselves into at the sight of Oliver Stark kissing a man and refuse to let go now because they're in too deep and burned too many bridges just to be stuck with no development, no scenes, a real possibility for a break up about Tommy's past racism, and having to pretend "your dad is alive" is healthy communication and "you're a vision in a cone" is the apex of romance. I don't think people need to justify why they like something over something else. But people need to be fucking for real and stop acting as if he's more than he is because I don't need to agree with headcanons someone paid 200 dollars for an actor to confirm.