#and since the canon endgame ships are different

[taliesin-the-bored]

Tag game: tag nine people you’d like to know better.

Tagged by: @oneshoulderangel (Thank you for tagging me!)

Last song: At the moment, I have "Losing Your Memory" by Alan Star stuck in my head, which I suppose makes it my current song, not my last song. Hm. I get songs stuck in my head very easily, but the last one I had there for a significant amount of time was a mashup of different language versions of "Les Rois du Monde" for about a week. "Lehetsz Király", the Magyar version, is probably my favorite of them. It's worth a listen.

Currently watching: Normally, the answer would be "random mostly terrible old movies/shows" or "nothing much", but I currently have a hyperfixation on the musical Roméo et Juliette and have been watching it in multiple languages. (Thus, the song).

Three ships: This is hard. Maybe as a result of being on the ace and aro spectrums, I'm more likely to care about which characters are interacting than whether it's romantic or platonic. Here goes:

Kedivere/Bedikay. It can be romantic, platonic, or queerplatonic, but whichever way, I'm here for it. I probably spend too much time thinking about how in Cullwch and Olwen, when Cai gets mad at Arthur and marches out, Bedwyr stays behind, keeps acting like nothing's happened, and isn't the one to avenge Cai's death. The feeling of betrayal on both sides has a lot of unexplored potential. And the version where Bedivere dies and Kay fights to bring his body back safely while mortally wounded himself... And the version where Bedivere survives Camlann and Kay isn't said to fight in it, so they might be left together after their world has fallen apart...

Platonically or queerplatonically, Galahad and the Grail Heroine. I really like the tragic Grail Quest friendships, but I like theirs most, maybe because there's something weird and otherworldly about them both. I like it when characters are strange and endearing and doomed by the narrative.

Ever since reading John Matthews' retelling, which I read before the original, I've had a soft spot for Caradoc and Guinier. The Story of Caradoc is very disturbing, and I have some major qualms with Caradoc over a detail Matthews cut out, but all the same, there's a reason these two have the best track record with magical fidelity tests. Each of them would go to the ends of the earth for the other, and together, they're stronger than any curse.

Favorite Color: Blue, particularly royal blue and some teals.

Currently consuming: Black licorice with chocolate.

First ship: This is a hard one, since through elementary and most of middle school, I tended to go along with whatever I thought the author's intentions were and was more likely to unship something. The first non-endgame ship I got invested in was Sonya/Nikolai in War and Peace. I didn't like Nikolai, but Sonya did, and she was my favorite character, so I wanted her to be happy. The first non-canon couple I thought was meant to be together was also in War and Peace: Marya Bolkonskaya and Julie Karagina. My eighth grade self did not think their letters could be interpreted platonically. I still don't.

Last movie: If the musical doesn't count, the last movie I watched was Quest for Camelot, which was awful. Though not Robot Monster-level bad, Robot Monster has an elegance to its simplicity which Quest for Camelot lacks.

Currently working on: Various fics, most of them Arthuriana or CotRK-related (I am woefully behind on the Badfic Bingo), and (theoretically) an epic-style poem, though I haven't gotten much of it written for quite a while now.

Tagging: @gawrkin, @emperorcandy, @wildbasil, @gorewound, @knightsofsomethingorother, @ladyminaofcamelot, @tasosotaso, @amashelle, @gingersnaptaff (I have no idea who's been tagged so far, apart from the people on @oneshoulderangel's post, so I apologize for any multi-tags)

[fallenfrommars6277]

Okay, I've seen the cameo where George hints at Edwin's "first adult experience" with the Cat King and I wish to share my two cents about it.

First of all, disregarding which pair anyone ships, I believe we can safely say that Payneland will eventually be endgame: it is left as an option by Charles in Hell, it is hinted in the show and it is basically sustained by Jayden and George themselves.

I am, for one, a Payneland shipper. I admit that at first I wanted them to stay just friends because I am a sucker for great friendship stories, but rewatch after rewatch I started to see them as soulmates in a romantic kinda way.

Nevertheless, I think (and honestly have thought since the beginning, not just because they said that now) that it would be great to see how Catwin would evolve and in particular I think it's just right that Edwin has his first experiences with the Cat King, maybe not straight away sex, but in general intimate experiences.

Let me explain.

Yes, it would be nice to see Edwin and Charles getting together and awkwardly kissing and having together their first intimacies: it would be a first for both of them, because I believe that while Charles may have fooled around a bit, he didn't ever actually make love to anyone, let alone a boy. So it would be all romantic and gentle and blushing virgins and it absolutely would be great.

BUT.

Both Edwin and Charles are on a journey to self discovery, in general but especially in the love and sexuality area, but they are at different stages of it. While Edwin has been repressed for over a century, he has been now awakened (by Charles, by Monty and above all by the Cat King) to feelings and sensations and wants that he now needs and IS READY to fulfil.

On the other hand, Charles isn't there yet, he just now learns that his best mate is in love with him and he feels nothing but love and adoration towards him but he fundamentally doesn't know what actual love (as in being in love with someone and being the one someone is in love with) looks and feels like, also they're both guys and while he has been nothing but supportive of Edwin about him coming to terms with his homosexuality, considering the time and especially the household in which he lived in, I don't think he wouldn't have problems realizing and admitting to himself that he is bisexual (I know it's not canon, but come on) or at least that he fancies another boy. And even when this happens, I think that he would have a lot of holding back, being insecure about his "ability" to love and not wanting to hurt Edwin.

That said, I think that Edwin has always loved and will always love only Charles, but it is only fair for him now to start having his experiences and exploring his sexuality and, while Edwin and Charles have been a whole for over 30 years, doing everything together, I believe this is something he has to do by himself and the best person with whom to do this is the Cat King because they're both attracted to each other, because the CK is very experienced and I think this would be someway reassuring for Edwin (like he's doing this, he's experimenting with someone who knows very well what he's doing), because the CK would never be judgemental of his inexperience, and above all because the CK cares about him, but also knows that no matter how much he can care about him and be affectionate towards him and even love him, he will never actually have him because Edwin's heart belongs to Charles since that night in the attic.

I expect (yes, I'm talking like this is actually happening because maybe I'm delusional but I've not given up hope yet about a second season) that while Edwin does this and experiments and learns things about a part of himself that has always been hidden and repressed, Charles someway does the same, of course not realizing that he wants to have sexual experiences because he is, if not actually experienced, more acquainted with this "area", but that he has to explore his sexuality to understand how he can fit loving Edwin into it and then actually act upon this, but to do this he also needs to find a way to separate himself from his father, from his painful childhood, and control his anger and navigate and accept his own emotions, all the shades of them, to start appreciating himself and considering himself worth of loving and being loved.

In conclusion, as I said before, they both are going through a journey, but while Edwin's at the end of his and is ready for what comes next, Charles has just now started it, so it's just right that just this once they don't do this together, because they KNOW that even if they take metaphorically different roads, they eventually will find each other at the finish line.

[perrypixel]

The more I hear from others the Luz and Hunter’s VAs don't support lunter is laughable bc the way they were bantering and flirting with each other in Hunting Palisman like they really thought there was a chance that they were each other's character's love interest at the time of recording that episode

[h3llh0undz]

i am under the very firm belief that destiel was NEVER supposed to happen. everything that ever pandered to destiel was just because of the fans. it was to make the shippers happy, not because of what the characters were supposed to be. (and NO, cas telling dean he loves him doesnt make it canon. one sided i can agree, but its not canon. “dean wanted to say it back!” NO HE DIDNT?) but samdean was always ALWAYS supposed to be endgame. platonically or otherwise, this is THEIR show. (i dont really like people calling cas the third main character too. he wasnt created with the intention of being important. BUT i do like him as a character. i AM glad he stuck around, but people really over-inflate it all. thats all a conversation for a different day though). since the very beginning, sam and dean have been insane for each other. and that never changed. theyre SOULMATES for fucks sake. there is infinitely more evidence for wincest than any other ship in the show could ever conceive. people calling sam a third wheel to destiel is so fucking delusional imo. salmondean is always the duo and everyone else is secondary to them. they always leave anyone they do get involved with for each other. ship destiel if you want, its cute, but understand it is NOT real. your perceptions of characters do not affect the show.

[mcfuckity]

You know what? Im breaking my silence. Im TIRED of people missing Jess’ character on purpose. Like, everyone can use context clues and fill in the blanks for every other character but somehow Jess is the only one taken at face value? Jess is being seen as a cold, detached, mean bitch by fans but I cannot determine whether we even watched the same movie.

Let’s address the elephant in the room, because she is a black woman who is NOT a mammy character, people criticize her harsher. Jess was MORE than Miguel’s “lackey”. She had her own thoughts and opinions. She definitely had her own personality and feelings about the entire situation. She lowkey stalled time to give Gwen chances to fix her mistakes.

If Jess was as cold as Miguel and such a “bitch”, she would’ve left Gwen the first time. Let’s not forget that Miguel was fully about to leave Gwen with her own father holding her at gunpoint, JESS vouched to bring Gwen under her name. Jess put her OWN position at risk to help Gwen and it required that she do her job accordingly. Jess made the boundary VERY clear, she is NOT Gwen’s mother. She is NOT her friend. I seen people argue that “Jess’ maternal instincts” should’ve kicked in to protect Gwen” but fully ignoring that Jess HAS A FAMILY! Jess is PREGNANT with her OWN child. Her instincts DID kick in and she chose her dimension with her family in it!

Jess was stuck in a rock and a hard place. She obviously wanted to help Gwen (considering she brought her in at the cost of her own position) but UNFORTUNATELY, GWEN messed up. Gwen saw Miles and that ultimately led to Spot escaping. You can love these characters and acknowledge that every character had their OWN thoughts and motivations that led to fuck ups. It’s not right to try to make Jess sound worse than the man who fuckin replaced his dead self out of grief, was about to leave a teen at gunpoint, and had an entire society of people chase a teenager who wanted to save his dad.

Don’t get me started on the “she’s fighting crime while pregnant argument” because we can accept superpowered people but NOT the possibility that their bodies are more resilient. NOT TO MENTION THAT PETER B HAS A WHOLE BABY ON MISSIONS???? Like, no one is calling him a bad father so what’s different with Jess? Miguel was mean as fuck to Miles upon meeting but Jess doing her JOB is considered being “mean”.

Then the “I didn’t see her enough to connect with her” is fair until everyone can somehow create entire {TERRIBLE} mischaracterizations of Hobie, Pav, and Peni who (arguably) had just about the same amount of screentime. She also shares traits with every other spider person with being snarky and quick-witted while being completely grounded. She’s literally one of the spider people that Miguel fully trusts but somehow the fandom erases her and goes “He loves Peter B and Lego Spidey🤪🤪”

Like, it’s crazy how people find it so easy to erase Jess and Margo (Spiderbyte) in fanworks for things they easily dismiss from other characters and it’s feelin like misogynoir. Like, Margo and Hobie served the same purpose with deciding to go against Miguel for Miles, yet only Hobie and Gwen gets that credit.

AND THEN THE MANY EXCUSES WHEN IT COMES TO SHIPPING! People keep hating on Jess/Miguel because she’s “obviously pregnant and married” but go right around and ship Miguel with Peter B. Same with Margo/Miles because it’s a bunch of “Miles and Gwen are obviously endgame” ANDDDD???? Since when did every ship HAVE TO be canon in order to be a ship? It’s especially crazy because I BARELY EVER see those comments on Miles/(Peni, Pav, or Hobie) or have no problem with having all the boys huddled around Gwen. The double standard is glaringly obvious.

In conclusion, some of you mfs dont deserve ATSV.

[sunayyyy]

There are a lot of What-ifs when it comes to jason todd. What would've happened if bruce didn't take jason in? what if jason was taken in by selina and became stray? what if jason didn't die?what if jason was found before the lazarus pit? but one that i don't see at all is what if jason didn't come back and just stayed with the All Caste?

The Lost Days arc would go about the same as in canon (without the talia thing because ew), but after the car bomb thing doesn't pan out jason just starts looking into the batfam more. He sees his dad for the first time in years. He forgets everything and considers coming back home.

But then he finds out how his death was handled

Of course he'd still be pissed off about tim becoming robin, but more than that bruce and dick spun it so people though tim was the second robin. Jason's whole identity was usurped, and was prompted by alfred of all people. Add to that the memorial case and the victim blaming, as well as him not having a memorial in titans tower and tim talking shit about him every chance he gets and jason starts to lose hope. But these things could be fixed! These could all be explained away as emotionally incompetent people compartmentaling in order to get over their grief! right?

Then he finds the footage of dick killing the joker for tim. Sure, the joker taunted dick using jason's memory, but it was him thinking tim was dwad that really set him off. The final nail in the coffin would be bruce reviving the joker. Jason now has proof that 1. tim was indeed his replacement, and 2. Bruce's morals and dick's clean hands are worth more than his mangled corpse.

He scraps all of his plans because now he KNOWS that bruce would never kill the joker for him. Disillusioned with bruce and gotham in general, he sneaks into arkham and pits a bullet in the joker's skull, then goes to the all caste for training. If they didn't care about him, why should he care about them?

I think ducra would be less wary about training jason in this au, since his drive for revenge had dissipated, and he wouldn't "bring great evil into this world."

Since ducra wouldn't really show favouritism to jason, since he isn't as much of a flight risk or a time bomb, i think his and essence's relationship would go way better than in canon. Their main points of contention were jason leaving the caste and ducra's favouritism, and without those 2 factors, their relationship could actually flourish.

Due to the all blades being linked to the soul, it would make sense if the caste taught soul magic. This would make jason a way better fighter than any baseline vigilante or assassin. Maybe he could use his abilities to hide his body language to avoid shiva and cass' ability? The all caste doesn't get massacred here, so he learns how to really socialise, talk with people with different experiences, so he could occasionally go back to the alley or the hill to reconnect with his old friends, like dana or numbers, since he wouldn't push people away like in canon.

The untitled wouldn't be as big of a threat as they were in RHatO since there are way more people available, and jason being super trained, so maybe jason would adopt a new vigilante identity to help people on a more personal level. He considers going by Red Hood, as a taunt to the man that killed him, but he doesn't like it. It's a remnant of a past he'd rather forget. Maybe he'd go by cardinal, but he doesn't want to be associated with a bird anymore. I think marauder would be a really good name for him, a man who goes around looking for things to steal and people to fight.

You can have him interact with some justice league dark members, especially Constantine since I really like their dynamic, and he could deal with hellspawns since he wields the allblades now.

JayEssence is a rarepair, which is a shame since i think these 2 could have a really interesting dynamic if written properly, so I'd probably go with that as the endgame ship, but you could work in so many of his ships. JayRose? childhood friends on the titans who reconnected after jason studied under slade for a bit. JayEddie? same thing but they reconnect in hell. Jaytemis? they could run into eachother during a mission and they'd recognise death anywhere. enemies to reluctant allies to lovers. JayDana? classic childhood friends to lovers. The possibilities are endless

[teenwolf-confessions]

It felt like they spent too long "testing" out different love interests for him to see what would be the most popular, but that also meant the fandom got more divided since there were more options (especially with the queerbaiting!) This also meant his canon romantic relationships never felt satisfying because they'd just be hastily written away for another ship that was more popular (i.e. stalia to stydia). By the time they finally committed to an endgame, DOB was basically off the show anyways, so we barely saw any stydia at all.

The result? Everyone is annoyed and they take out that frustration on each other.

[siflshonen]

I’d love to interpret bkdk as romantic but I will be honest, it is difficult to do when a het ship is being hinted at more explicitly. I’m still glad Horikoshi did not include a full-on confession though. We can do what we want in fics without having to rework canon.

Love your posts, thank you for your wonderful insights into bkdk. Your meta is always well-done.

I know this ask was originally meant for someone else, and you’re absolutely right that bakuhatsufallinlove does fantastic meta. You’re very wise to see how great of a job they do and it’s kind of you to say so. It’s also very kind of you to read my posts.

I’m about to not be quite so kind.

I hate Izuocha. And I’m annoyed by the insinuation that Ochako breaking down in tears over Himiko to Izuku - her big moment of bearing her emotions out in the open to him - is seen as an endgame romance, especially since the only other detail we have to go off of is Ochako smiling at Izuku in their hero suits when Todoroki is kinda doing the same thing, AND when I should DAMN WELL hope Ochako and Izuku are still friends and looking out for each other, especially since they bonded over the traumatic deaths of those they failed to save.

I’m insulted that Ochako’s confessions to Himiko are disregarded like that, or the tumultuous chaos she grapples with in her heart is brushed aside. I’m insulted by the insinuation that Ochako’s known love of seeing happy, smiling people is not acknowledged and instead her expressing joy over seeing that on Izuku’s face is painted over as being implied, for-sure romantic endgame. Maybe it is, sure. Anything is possible. I’m sure Himiko wants the best for Ochako and for her to be happy, and would probably think it was romantic that her feelings also reached Izuku by way of Ochako as being someone they mutually loved.

But Himiko is dead and it ripped Ochako apart, and her reaction to that is the last in-depth look we get at her feelings. Izuku recognizing that Ochako is a hero in her own right (not a heroine, aka a damsel for the hero to save and then end up with romantically per Japanese storytelling roles, not just “a female hero” like we think of it in English) is gratifying and wonderful. And I’m insulted by the insinuation that just because Izuku acknowledges that Ochako is and has been his hero and always saved him that this must mean that they are implied to be the romantic endgame. God forbid they mutually admire each other and respect each other and the story just ends there, and god forbid Izuku calling her his hero sends a totally different message.

Now, as for Katsuki. You cannot tell me that he doesn’t have some kind of deep feelings for Izuku. @bakuhatsufallinlove has posted extensively about unspoken feelings with a likewise unspoken understanding are common for Japanese romances, but I’ll admit I’m not here to talk about that.

Do you really want to tell me that Horikoshi-sensei allowing Katsuki and Izuku to keep their arms and have an implied handhold at the end doesn’t mean as much as whatever the fuck Ochako is doing in the final panel?

In Naruto, which BNHA takes many cues from, Sasuke and Naruto had their arms ripped off because the editor didn’t approve of the two of them holding hands in panel. Apparently, that’s too romantic and inappropriate for the male leads of a shonen. Given that, how interesting that the doctor recommended that Katsuki’s hand-holding arm be amputated. How interesting that Katsuki refuses. How interesting that Katsuki refuses while thinking not just of All Might, probably not really of All Might, but Izuku. How interesting that Izuku also keeps both arms, and we as readers are very certain they held hands even if it is not shown.

How interesting that Katsuki is not just the heart of Izuku’s mech suit project (and, in some respects, of the class,) but of Izuku’s image of victory, Izuku’s “Pro Hero with a quirk” origin, the heart of what he believes a real hero is like, and the literal actual heart of what he wanted to defend from ShigAFO multiple times over. How interesting that Katsuki’s story is in part him learning how to not be a burden to Izuku or used against him like, say, a heroine-damsel-in-distress might be used, AND it is also in part him learning to come to terms with his feelings for Izuku. In fact, we spend basically the whole manga dwelling on this with him. It’s that important that he reconciled Izuku with his heart and desires.

Izuku, who is so tearfully happy that Katsuki wants to be with him for the rest of their lives in whatever form that takes, even when they weren’t sure he was going to have a quirk and be able to be Katsuki’s superhero rival. Izuku, who is so happy to be with Kacchan and the class as a hero again, in part BECAUSE it is with Kacchan………….and everyone else on the next page.

Nothing is for sure. Nobody kissed or got married or whatever, sure. But you really want to tell me Izuocha is more heavily implied based on the ending?

Thanks for the ask. I’m sorry you feel that way. Get off my lawn.

[hell-is-not-an-excuse]

Helluva Boss versus Achillean Relationships || Chaxxie [1/3]

Let me preface this by saying that I know I'm not the first person to point this out, and I certainly won't be the last. However, it's something that's been tugging at me for a while now. That "something" of course, being the portrayal of MLM/achillean relationships within the Hellaverse, and how they're favoured over everything while bordering into the fetishistic.

I'm going to be the first to admit I have not watched the entirety of Hazbin Hotel. Hell, I made it to the first five or so minutes of the first episode before unceremoniously quitting around the "this body was made to be exploited" line. I'll have a separate post on that later, since my thoughts on that (and Angel Dust as a character, by extension) are long winded and not the focus of this particular post.

So, for today, I will be focusing on one of the three canon MLM ships within Helluva Boss specifically. For the purpose of this post series, I will only be including the ships that have two characters that are named within the series. This narrows us down to Chaxxie, Fizzozzie and Stolitz (which is not technically canon but is clearly endgame, unless the writers are waiting with bated breath to pull the rug out from underneath the audience).

This time I will be talking about Chaxxie, as it's the least touched-upon relationship in the show itself; not only because it's the only past relationship on this list, but it's also the only relationship that contains a one-off character. And yet, I found the lack of chemistry so offensively boring that I felt the need to make a whole post just about them.

So, Chaxxie. There's not a whole lot to talk about with their relationship, as all we get is just over a minute of backstory and a song that screams "unable to take no for an answer". I suppose I could also include their sham almost-wedding, but that comes off less as a shipping moment and more a plot beat, and thus will be disregarded. Even so, I apparently had way more to say about them and the implications of their relationship than I thought, so this post will be long.

Before that however, there's the obvious elephant in the room - Chaz and Millie. Despite being the ex of both Millie and Moxxie, we as the audience never get a perspective of what the relationship between Millie and Chaz even looked like. Not even a throwaway line from Millie herself. Given that Helluva Boss has suffered from a lack of precise characterising of its women up until this point, this is another glaring example to add to the long-suffering pattern.

But what about Moxxie? What do we get as the audience?

In the first of two flashback scenes, we're informed that Chaz and Moxxie meet during Moxxie's induction into the Knolastname crime family. They meet eyes, and Moxxie is charmed right off the bat.

This springboards us into four different instances of the supposed chemistry that these two share with one another, the first being a gunfight in which Moxxie and Chaz reach for the same grenade, with all the flirtation and blushing that could be fit into the few seconds allotted for this sequence.

From there, the sexual intensity ramps up in the next two shots before settling back down into a nude portrait scene reminiscent of Titanic.

In terms of learning about their relationship, we as the audience don't glean much from these scenes, other than the fact that they have an incredibly sexual dynamic. One could also infer that their relationship started as a secret given the request to not tell Crimson that Chaz was at the door in the signage scene, though this is never properly expanded on.

Now, before we venture into the second half of my Chaxxie critique, I want to make two things clear; there is nothing wrong with a couple having an incredibly active sex life. This is true for any pairing with consenting adults, be it Achillean, Sapphic or Hetero. This is something I will expand on momentarily. Second is that despite my griping of the overtly sexual nature of their relationship, I don't find these examples to be "too sexual". By all means, this is quite tame imagery, at least to me. I bring these examples up primarily to highlight that Chaxxie as a ship suffers from sacrificing chemistry for sexuality (whether that be in a manner meant to be comedic, or genuinely sexy).

Back to our flashbacks. In our second and final flashback scene, we are given the unceremonious ending to their relationship. In the midst of a heist, Moxxie is pinned and unable to escape the scene of the crime, as police sirens wail in the distance. Chaz, in a selfish move, makes a grab for the money and leaves Moxxie to the authorities, effectively ending their relationship. This is presented as a great heartbreak for Moxxie, but due to the issues highlighted above, this reveal falls flat.

Moxxie doesn't appear to struggle with feelings of self-worth in the romantic department; this is evident in the way he interacts with Millie, self-assured in his love for her and her love for him. One would think that if this relationship with Chaz was so important to him, that there would be some sort of foreshadowing or hints regarding the feelings or issues that would have been bound to have sprung up as a result of Chaz and his abandonment.

I will concede here, Moxxie not wanting to talk about his past is a fine enough example of why Chaz wouldn't come up in conversation prior to this episode. However, if we as the audience are meant to believe that this relationship was that important to him, it would have been nice to add a hint of abandonment issues to Moxxie as a character.

This could also have had a possible added effect of explaining why Moxxie isn't so quick to leave Blitzø or I.M.P despite his treatment - Blitzø and Loona may be awful to Moxxie, but at least they don't abandon him. At least Blitzø throws crumbs of praise his way. At least Loona comes along with Millie to rescue him and Blitzø from the D.H.O.R.K.S.

Unfortunately, we're still not done here with the Chaxxie scenes, as the biggest and most glaring issue with this ship as a whole comes in at around the fifteen minute mark.

I'll start with the least consequential of my critiques - This scene is just not funny. The punchlines essentially amount to sex, big dick, and the mounting discomfort that Moxxie feels while he repeatedly insists that Chaz leave him alone. There are ways to comedically write a character being uncomfortable with sex or sexual implications/situations. Blatant harassment is not one of them.

Speaking of blatant harassment, this is the moment that any semblance of this ship being worth my time fell apart. The writing is done using Chaxxie as a ham-fisted attempt at giving Moxxie further backstory (at the cost of Millie once again) and is now beginning to decline into the outright uncomfortable.

Even before he begins his song, Moxxie outright tells Chaz to leave. Of course, Chaz completely disregards his demands to be left alone, insisting that he knows exactly what Moxxie wants. This is a common line used by real life sexual abusers against their victims - and yes, though Chaz never actually forces himself onto Moxxie in an explicit manner, his following song is filled with unwanted touch and crude, overtly sexual language.

Look me in the eyes and tell me that Moxxie is enjoying this experience even remotely. He looks put off, alarmed, uncomfortable. And yet this scene is played for comedy, for some reason. This is not the first instance of Moxxie being sexually abused or harassed for comedy either. Even back in Season One, this poor guy was being used for the sort of joke that should have died out years ago.

Overall thoughts on Chaxxie and their contribution to MLM representation.

Do I think Chaz and Moxxie are good queer representation? The easy, fast answer is a resounding "No". Their relationship lacks any sort of depth in canon and looks to be just another vehicle for gay sex jokes, partnered with yet another excuse to harass Moxxie for laughs.

On a slightly longer note, I find them not only to be lackluster representation, but yet another instance in the growing pattern of Vivziepop's achillean ships being either based on sex, or having a heavy emphasis on sex that isn't afforded to her sapphic or hetero pairings. This isn't to say that the other achillean ships don't have moments that are fluffier or not purely focused on sex (after all, Chaxxie is the worst offender of being a pairing based on nothing but sex from a writing standpoint), but the discrepancy between the amount of sex talk from Chaggie and Millie/Moxxie as compared to Fizzozzie, Stolitz and Chaxxie is stark.

It's hard to say exactly what goes on in the heads of the writers, and I am not here to speculate on what they may be thinking at all times. However, the writing behind Chaxxie as a pairing specifically (in the past or not) leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. The inclusion of Chaz does nothing to further Moxxie's character and seems more like a segue into making his bisexuality explicit, rather than taking the time to explore his attraction to men and past relationships meaningfully. Their past relationship is shallow at best, giving me no real reason to care about its end, and does a disservice to the already limited representation in Helluva Boss by painting yet another portrait of a lustful, but ultimately loveless feeling relationship.

[am-i-the-asshole-official]

AITA for asking someone not to make my art about a ship I hate?

This happened a couple months ago, but I’m still kinda unsure if I handled it correctly.

Basic rundown of events: I posted some art of a character on their own in the evening, and when I woke up the next morning, someone had reblogged with an addition about a ship that’s a big notp for me. I messaged them to ask they delete it as politely as possible, because people had been interacting with that version of the post specifically and it made me uncomfortable. They responded by saying I was being immature and needed to learn not to police what other people do on the internet. We exchanged a couple more messages, and I tried to explain my position my throughly. Neither of us was overtly hostile or anything, but I felt extremely talked down to by their tone of voice. After our conversation, we both blocked each other, and that was that. They never did delete their addition.

Why I think I might be TA: we weren’t exactly friends or anything. Neither of us followed each other. I’d seen them around in the fandom, and they’d reblogged some of my art in the past, but I think messaging someone I didn’t know instead of just blocking them might have been a bit of an overreach. Plus the ship in question is canon, and not particularly controversial or anything, so most people in the fandom probably wouldn’t have minded.

On the other hand, the ship being so unavoidable is a big part of the reason it upset me so much. It’s hard for me to exist in this fandom without having to see it constantly, and I don’t even ever mention the other character in it for fear of this exact thing happening. I’ve had people be assholes on my posts about the ship I prefer, or go out of their way to interpret my romantic posts about them platonically, or add tags to my art about how they only like my ship as backstory and not endgame. I don’t want to have to put a disclaimer every single time I post about this fandom. I just want to enjoy the things I like without being negative all the time. Which is why I figured messaging privately was more polite than making a stink where everyone could see. I specifically mentioned that I knew they wouldn’t have known and wasn’t mad.

No one actually ended up reblogging their addition, which is also a strike against me, but I got a lot of likes on specifically that version of the post, which made me scared they were going to. I hated the idea of having to turn off reblogs on a piece I’d worked pretty fucking hard on because a version I found so upsetting was in circulation. If it was just tags, I’d have blocked, but it being an addition is different. I don’t think asking people not to make my posts about it is “policing what other people do on the internet”. You’re in MY house, on MY post with MY art I spent hours on. Making additions to art posts already seems somewhat rude to me, that’s just not something you do, but I guess that’s a matter of the corner of tumblr culture you’re used it.

Also, their response felt very aggressive and condescending. They implied I was, like, a kid, and I do think I’m somewhat younger than them, but the only information about my age in my bio at the time was that I’m an adult, so it felt like a rude assumption. My age doesn’t have anything to do with it.

Again, though, I do absolutely see how my initial message could read as entitled. During the rest of our messaging, I did lose my temper a little bit at one point; I said something about how I’ve had to deal with shit in this fandom before, and I don’t remember the exact words since, again, we both blocked each other, but I know I swore at them. That might’ve come across as more aggressive than I wanted, and probably didn’t exactly help deescalate. (Can’t say for sure, I don’t have their side of the story)

Like I said, this situation was a bit ago now, but it upset me pretty bad at the time, and I’m still not entirely sure who’s in the wrong. So, AITA?

(Also to get ahead of this: please don’t make this about shipcourse in the comments. It’s not about that. They and I have similar opinions on that discourse from what I’ve gathered anyway. Thanks.)

What are these acronyms?

[lover-of-mine]

What do you think the difference is between buddie shippers who enjoyed tommy's part in the bi!buck reveal but are still rooting for buddie and are maybe even annoyed by buck/tommy now and buddie shippers who took to buck/tommy so much that they basically stopped rooting for buddie endgame? Cause I'm in the first group and genuinely don't understand how you'd end up in the second. Did they only like buddie cause it was THE fanon ship? Did they only like it cause it would be a ~hot mlm ship~ but now there is a better one? Were they just never as invested?

Look honey, I went back and forth if I wanted to answer this or not. I have no problem with people who ship both. I don't think it is some sin or crazy character flaw or whatever, enjoy whatever the fuck, yk? My thing is and always will be the insistence in pretending Tommy is more than he is that some people refuse to let go. Is the fact that I'm getting called homophobic for not liking Tommy, a fictional character with a history of bigotry, while someone had the nerve to bring the aids crisis to the middle of a discussion of who should get to kiss a stupid fictional guy. Tommy is a device to Buck's bisexuality, the show never tried to make him as more, Oliver was talking about their breakup in the post 704 interviews, Tim called it a fling, an entry level relationship, and I think enjoying the ship for what it is is fine. The problem is that there was a month between 704 and 706 where people, aided by Lou and the cameos, created a Tommy who's not the Tommy we are seeing, and they assigned an importance to that man that's just not what the show wants to do with him. My problem is the people calling 802 boring because they deluded themselves into believing the show was hiding Lou because he was filming with Angela and are pissed that Tommy didn't land the plane. My problem is the fact that I am being called names since fucking march over a guy, a relationship with 24 minutes of screentime where not even half of those are actually framed as being about the relationship. There's nothing beyond the fact that they are a queer relationship to be invested in. And I don't like hearing that I need to shut up about buddie and respect Buck's choices because he's in a relationship now and suddenly have to respect canon and that it's disgusting for me to see Tommy as a plot device who served his purpose already, when no one had that energy with Buck's previous relationships. I don't like the hysteria people dropped themselves into at the sight of Oliver Stark kissing a man and refuse to let go now because they're in too deep and burned too many bridges just to be stuck with no development, no scenes, a real possibility for a break up about Tommy's past racism, and having to pretend "your dad is alive" is healthy communication and "you're a vision in a cone" is the apex of romance. I don't think people need to justify why they like something over something else. But people need to be fucking for real and stop acting as if he's more than he is because I don't need to agree with headcanons someone paid 200 dollars for an actor to confirm.

[ollybenrio]

I’m gonna get my thoughts and predictions out before the new Chaos Theory season comes out.

I think, genuinely, they’ve gotten all the ships and relationships set up to bring together the endgame couples. they’re setting all these relationships up so that when the real endgame plots happen, it hits us harder, gives us more of a deeper plot.

So far what i think is going to happen to the current in CANON couples we see/have;

Sammy and Yas: YES endgame, a beginning couple that they plan to keep.

Kenji and Brooklyn: NOT endgame, a beginning couple they gave for those who enjoy it, but as of now (chaos theory s1), it’s grown deeply complicated, and has made us dislike them (atleast me, they grew unhealthy for eachother). Gives plot and “complication” to future Kenji & Brooklyn relationships, gives us shock factor, entertainment for when/if future relationships with different people occur.

How i think it’ll end up;

Brooklyn and Darius: YES endgame. CT s1 we already see Darius has a crush on her, and we’ve previously (cc) seen them with lots of romantic history and chemistry. Most (?) of the fandom prefers them, and the creators know this (they also are not the type to ignore what fans want!). They’ve foreshadowed this relationship in s1 during the abandoned house scene (with that weird tub) where Kenji gets mad at Darius for liking her (I think?) but later towards the end of the season, we can see them forgiving each other, which MAY be forshadowing and giving that underlying feeling that Kenji is okay with Darius/Brooklyn, and that technically, they don’t like each other anymore, so Darius can do whatever he wants, even if that means dating her.

Ben and Kenji: YES endgame. We’ve already gotten tons of chemistry and dare i say, romantic history, with these two. that whole monorail scene where Kenji wears Bens “dork pouch” for ever? they were testing the waters with that. we know these creators aren’t scared of putting lgbtq relationships out there, so we know this also has plenty of potential. We know they didn’t interact so much during ct s1 but that whole egg scene with Speckles? that was a little… yk. They fit perfectly especially since everyone else is already going down their endgame routes with others that aren’t these guys. so in the end, they put these two together.

as a writer, and person who has watched plenty of movies and read books, i can see the route writers will go for things like this. it’s not always about preference, but where things/characters slot in. in relationships, these couples all make sense for endgame purposes. They gave us Kenji x Brooklyn for those who wanted it (more than enough seasons, might i add) so know they’ll feed the others who like Kenji x Ben and those who like Brooklyn x Darius. it all makes sense in the end.

let me know your thoughts on this!!

[lieutenant-teach]

I really can’t understand Obikin and Quiobi. For me it tastes as both partially pedophilia and partially incest. Just think of it – both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon have known their padawans since kids were 9 and 12 respectively. They were parent figures, literally brought their padawans up. And then – romance? How can any adult feel romantic towards a person who they remember as a child? It’s not the same situation when people with big age difference meet as grown-ups. Also marriage between step-parents and step-children or adoptive parents and adopted children, although not blood-related, is considered incest.

Ship and let ship, I know, but in-universe these ships just don’t work at all – and there’re a lot of shippers who insist Obikin is endgame and it has always been so. Specifically thanks to Matthew Stover, the author of ROTS novelization, who inserted a lot of ‘Obikin’ moments which are often translated as a prove of in-universe romance.

And I’m not even mentioning power imbalance of ‘teacher-student’ relationship. Why can’t Quiobi and Obikin be in ‘familiar’ relationship, not romantic? After all, Anakin canonically has Padme, and Obi-Wan is shippable with lots of characters without weird pedo stink (including clones, because clones are adult men who grew up faster, not kids in adult bodies).

[nikachansstuff]

5 minutes to clarify a common misconception

I see that it’s a common misconception to believe Elriels want Elain and Azriel to be mates, and that this belief just validades the importance of Elain’s mating bond with Lucien. Moreover, I see people stating that we are contradicting ourselves by wanting Elriel to be mates, since we want Elain to reject a mating bond.

And to be fair, the criticism makes sense. If it was true.

So I want to clarify this. I can only speak for myself, as a Elriel, of course, but I have a feeling this understanding is common among us.

Speculating about the possibility of Elain and Azriel being true mates has nothing to do with the belief that they are endgame. Let me explain: I believe this couple is endgame because of all development in text. Regardless of mating bond or not.

What cause us to speculate on it is the fact that Azriel’s behavior towards Elain is of a mate, supported by the way SJM writes her males and endgame couples. The urge to protect, the instinct, the fact he can read Elain’s emotion without his powers, the rage and fear for her safety. I’m not even going to enter in details about Azriel being the one figuring it out what Elain’s power was, what she needed. All this factors together, plus the examples we have in SJM multiverse, points towards true mates.

Please note that we are not working with a conclusion “Elriel are mates” first and then searching the text for evidences to support it. Here the opposite is happening, because of the canon evidence and the way SJM writes mates, it’s consequential to speculate. In a way, I can even draw a parallel with a common argument Gwynriels have about the spark and singing being a writing device that indicate mates.

Now, there’s another possibility that I don’t see being discussed here in the fandom.

It could be that all this mate behavior is just the way SJM writes romance. That’s how she has done it for more than a decade, she is used to the language she created to symbolize male interest, and now it’s just part of her romantic style. Could be that SJM doesn’t know how to write romance without her males showing this type of behavior, regardless of mating bond. That’s also a possibility. But it still wouldn’t explain Lucien’s apathy towards Elain, but this is a different discussion.

Do I need Elriel to be mates? Do I ship them because I think they are mates? No. I ship them because they canonically want to be together.

[buddiebeginz]

So B*mmy's attacked another journalist and caused them to go private on twitter. This time it was the person who wrote the article for USWeekly. The one about couples people want to see happen and because they included Buddie B*mmy's went after them.

You know they go on and on about how their ship is endgame and how Buddie is never going to happen. Well if that were truly the case they wouldn't need to attack us for our head canons. They wouldn't care if we saw Eddie as queer. They wouldn't even care if Eddie came out. They certainly wouldn't need to care about random articles that talked about how Buddie could happen.

But they do care and they do feel threatened because they know deep down that everything since s7 is screaming that their ship isn't going to last. Everytime they harrass people so publicly and loud like this all they do is make their entire fandom look awful. Fandom drama doesn't dictate what decisions Tim is going to make for the show but I do think it can play a factor. I think fandom in general can play a role in what stories get made. I don't think Buck would have ever even come out as bi if not for the Buddie fandom being as loud and supportive of it happening as we've been over the years.

I'm positive that Tim, the higher ups at abc, and the actors have all taken notice of the toxicity of the B*mmy fandom. Tim himself called them out in that podcast during the hiatus. And while Buddie fandom have said and done things that have crossed lines over the years we have never been as bad as some of the stuff I've seen coming from B*mmy stans since last season. They have repeatedly attacked not only our fandom but journalists, the actors (literally making a 4 hour podcast of their hate for Oliver and also telling Ryan he should have finished the job after he opened up about being s*icidal), the 911news account, etc.

From what I've seen they can't handle anyone having a different opinion than them. Almost since 7x04 happened I've seen them attacking Buddie shippers and calling us homophobic for still shipping Buddie. Even though the majority of Buddie shippers were supportive of the kiss when it happened and were thrilled Buck had his bi awakening. But because we've continued to talk about how we want to see Buddie happen, something a lot of us have done for years regardless of whatever love interest the guys have been with and because we've talked about our issues with T*mmy, especially with how he treats Buck, they think that gives them the right to attack us personally. 

I fully support everyone's right to like the stuff they like and dislike the stuff they don't. Lord knows I've shipped a lot of unpopular ships over the years. But B*mmy stans have made this not just about a fictional show and ships anymore. This isn't just about how one group likes one ship and one group likes another. This is about how one group in the 911 fandom uses the fact that they ship a canon m|m ship as a shield to be abusive to anyone who disagrees with them.

They've made it so it's not just Buddie shippers who want T*mmy and that ship to go it's also everyone who is tired of dealing with the poison they've injected into the 911 fandom. They don't just make their own fandom look bad when they act out the way they do they make 911 fandom as whole look bad. I've been a part of this fandom for years and never seen animosity as bad it's been this year. I hope that when T*mmy goes our fandom can heal though to be honest there a lot of people I no longer care to interact with after all this.

[survivalove]

debunking lies zutara shippers say about the atla creators & writers

disclaimer: this is in no way an endorsement or defense of bryke or anyone mentioned. literally just debunking false statements i see spread throughout and outside the fandom as it pertains to kataang

1. that bryke made kataang endgame because the nice guy should get the girl

this is something I see often usually linked with this video of a man ⬇️ who they claim to be bryan/mike echoing this sentiment.

this man is in fact john o’bryan, one of the three known zk shippers in the writers’ room (we’ll expand on this in point 5) talking about how he saw aang. not the creators. so of course it shouldn’t surprise anyone that he doesn’t even like kataang in the first place.

2. that bryke made kataang endgame last minute and zutara was the original pairing

bryan and mike (notice how i’m using both of their names separately. this too will be important in the next point) have talked about how kataang was planned since they originally wrote the show.

they have also talked ad nauseam in a video (which I will not share here cuz it made a lot of ppl angry) about why they do not like zutara and its shippers, so this entire point is bogus.

++ the reason why they say zk was the original pairing is because of one of the zk writers (joshua hamilton) wrote this in the atla fun facts that used to run on tv. (we’ll get into him later) those atla fun facts contain a lot of inaccurate/non canon “facts” which you can check and verify on avatar wiki if you know what i’m talking about.

3. that aang is bryke’s self insert (specifically mike)

yeah, here’s where the separation becomes important. bryan (L) and mike (R) are two different men. mike has never said that aang was his self-insert, nor has he directly talked about relating to aang. bryan, however, constantly talks about how much he relates to zuko. even, going as far to say he tries to think like zuko when he writes characters and shows.

the only time mike has come close to saying he relates to aang is when dante said he thinks mike is more like aang while bryan is more like zuko, and they, mostly bryan, agreed. (mike has actually said he relates to korra more than aang but hey) bryan also is the one who drew mike’s beard on adult aang because he considered it a nice reference to his friend. this is the main reason why shippers ran with that self-insert narrative because half the time, they think bryke is actually one person ☠️

++ in fact, aang’s original character design is based off the mixed black-chinese son of sifu kisu

4. that atla was supposed to have a season 4 where katara and zuko got together

this is mostly something that has come out of a fabricated interview by the head writer, aaron ehasz. he was allegedly asked what he would have liked to do if given the chance to write a fourth season of the show and talked about an azula redemption arc among other things. zutaras then made up a whole fake interview including that he wanted to make the two characters endgame.

ehasz then came out to say that most of these “interviews” were faked and that he has never talked about having a preference for any ship. if you go on his twitter, you will see him talking about an azula redemption arc tho.

as for atla having a 4th season at all, it was never intended. the creators, the music composers have all said at various points in time, the show was written and pitched as three seasons, three elements.

5. that most of the other writers shipped zutara and bryke’s authoritarianism shut it down

as I said above, only three writers on the original show have come out to say they preferred zk at some point. atla has had a total of 21 staff writers. 3 out of 21 is not most if you ask me.

as for bryke (yes now i’m using the shorthand cuz i proved my point earlier) being authoritarians, no writer or staff that has worked with them on the show has said this so…? idk where that came from but i’m not here to back them up just mention facts.

6. that all the women who worked on the franchise shipped zutara while only men shipped kataang

atla has very few female staff as it is:

5 writers (elizabeth welch: zk; others: unknown)

1 director (unknown)

5 storyboard/character artists (lauren montgomery: ka; elsa garagarza: ka; angela song mueller: zk; others: unknown)

1 comic writer (faith erin hicks: ka)

2 comic artists (gurihiru: ka)

++ mae whitman (katara’s voice actress) has expressed her like for both ships throughout the years.

so i’m not sure what defines all and only for some ppl but those definitions are not in my dictionary. disclaimer: i’m not declaring anyone here as a shipper in any official sense. this is just based off statements they have made that you can google!

7. that katara is written poorly in post-atla content because of kataang/bryke

I mean the first part isn’t really a lie, more of an opinion which I can agree with to an extent.

why I mention this here is because zks will not only go on a tangent and link the misogyny in the writing to a m/f ship and say the other m/f ship would have been more feminist…

but they also refuse to hold all the men involved accountable. like I said, 3 known atla writers shipped zk and 2 of them (joshua & john) were men (who would’ve thought men could like a ship and it could still be considered feminist 😃). they were also 2 out of only 4 atla writers that came back for legend of korra, outside of the creators. (19 to 4 ☠️ no comment). these shippers very well know this and instead of holding these men accountable for the misogynistic writing, they instead brag about them shipping it and ask them about zk whenever they have the chance.

another example is gene luen yang, a comic writer who again shipped zk (another man GASPPPPP) responsible for the first 5 comic books. everyone knows his comics suck in terms of characterization, particularly katara’s. in fact zutaras have made multiple threads on how poor the writing is. funnily enough, they always fail to mention that gly was the script writer or acknowledge his part in this mischaracterization, while bragging about him shipping zk in other posts. ironic.

meanwhile, bryke have never offered writers’ commentary on any of gly’s comics besides the search - mike (because they were mostly writing legend of korra during his run.)

basically these shippers don’t care about misogyny or holding male writers accountable if they ship zk which is funny because I thought it was… for the female gaze? why are you hyping men shipping it anyway? confusion.