#and louis says that in response

[mmelolabelle]

Dreamstat referring to Claudia as “our daughter”rather than “sister” doesn’t just reveal that whatever he tells Claudia (and himself), Louis still ultimately thinks of Claudia as his daughter and knows on some level that he’s failing her, but also tells us about the real Lestat’s view of her, because apparently even the most fucked up parts of Louis’ mind cannot conjure up a version of Lestat that doesn’t treat Claudia as his fledgling/child before everything else ->

“It's not as simple as choosing a new family configuration. 'Now I'm your cousin.' 'Now I'm your aunt.' I am your maker!’” (Lestat, 1x06) ->

“Claudia was my dark child, my love, evil of my evil. Claudia broke my heart.” (The Vampire Lestat)

[noliaert]

so there was this template on twitter and I kinda really wanted to do it for loumand sooo-

[statementlou]

Tbh i am not surprised that a person who openly talked about having drinking problems since 1d days, because of how crazy 1d worked has been agressive. What surprises me is people being surprised (they never seriously saw drunk person?). But i am also confused about this whole book. Apparently Maya said that that book is not fully bout Liam but compilation about her exes and some of the worst parts are not about him. But recently she said that the book is “ofc about him” so what is true then? Or did she meant it that ofc some parts are about him or that whole book is about him?

Sorry, just confused

I also am not surprised- we've learned so much more about the real stories of things and about the guys' actual lives over the last years, and the story that has unfolded around Liam has been totally consistent throughout if you've been following it, and so the information Maya is telling us is shocking and upsetting but not difficult to believe. I got an anon yesterday saying they were worried about getting similar revelations about the other boys, like "if Liam could be doing this we just don't know, any of them could", and while in a way that's always true I guess, anyone could be doing anything in private like... that doesn't really concern me. Because none of these Liam revelations are coming out of nowhere, there have been many MANY steps along the way leading us here if you've been watching, and he has talked openly about both his mental health struggles and his addiction issues. So to answer that anon... to find out something similar about Louis would in contrast contradict everything we know about him and no I'm not worried about it. Is he probably very irritating, absolutely, but an abuser or a loose cannon, well that news would shock me. But anyway as for the book I don't find it strange that she was nervous when it came out and treading lightly and later decided, fuck it. In the absolutely on point tiktok she dropped today (YES👏GIRL👏FUCKING TELL THEM👏) she even mentions attempts to keep her from publishing the book, presumably by Liam's team, that I am riveted by and cannot WAIT to hear more details about actually- like I said I don't find it at all strange that she was nervous and downplayed it a bit then. But if she says now that it's just about Liam, well, I would say it's been clear from the beginning that the book is their story. Maya herself brought up the parallel of songs being written about stuff and I think it's the same thing; it's true (she was in an abusive relationship that involved certain kinds of events) but maybe not 100% literal (I'm sure details were changed to make the story work, it's not like a word for word timeline of their interactions or whatever).

[stop-breaking-my-heart-telltale]

What can I say? They're my favorite.

[foreignswaggersession]

there are definitely iwtv fans who love acting like they care about racism when it comes to fictional characters, but have no issue with being condescending towards actual black and south asian people in this fandom.

Btw making "brown man has mid dick" jokes to prop up lestat is also clownery and it's even more stupid how some people would choose to double down on it after hearing about why it's degrading and uncomfortable. like i couldn't believe the bullshit i was reading from some of these so called "fandom anti racists", but they're clearly not mature enough for this discussion.

sorry for taking so long to respond anon - i wanted to make the posts with screenshots first so i could show my work and not be accused of merely reaching to support my ship. i think most the condescension from these fans comes from their selective memory of the show as filtered through their long-held headcanons, and i wanted to respond by citing the show itself. the fans started claiming louis was never attracted to armand as plainly evident, when the show clearly says the exact opposite, repeatedly. i watched the "armand has mid dick" joke/theory develop in real time and snowball within the pro-louis section of the fandom. it got twisted up in the 'louis hates topping' + 'lestat's dick is uniquely amazing' + 'armand can't satisfy louis' takes, all of which i disagree with. i understand your discomfort anon, it's part of why i started posting in the fandom - 'louis only wants pink dick' also became a thing this season and it broke me (louis didn't get it up for jonah while eating rats for y'all to act like pink dick does anything for him but sure, believe what you want).

to give some credit, i think some of these fans you're talking about started making these 'jokes' in reaction to the overwhelming (and undeserved) sympathy towards armand that dominated the fandom at the time (probably still does tbh). it's fair to point out that armand is not just any brown man but is in fact an extremely manipulative abuser who threatened to kill louis, set him and his family up to get killed, killed his daughter/sister, lied to him about it for years, sadistically let him suffer after a suicide attempt he instigated, erased that memory and covered THAT up for years, and to also suggest that those acts negatively affected louis's attraction to him. and yeah, i too am tired of reading takes about how loving armand was (girl when?) and how louis wasn't nice enough to him 🙄. that said, armand is attractive as fuck in universe and in our reality, so it's weird to pretend louis would not be attracted to him, despite his off-putting nature (see season 1).

most importantly, louis's desire for armand is a key plot point essential to the breakdown of his and claudia's relationship. claudia didn't say "picked another one over me" and "you were lestat's, now you're armand's" out of ignorance - she understands louis better than anyone. it's wishful thinking to suggest that louis suffered in silence for claudia through eps 11 and 13 and only stayed with armand for 70+ years to protect claudia/punish lestat and no other reason. it would have been really great if louis kept his commitment to claudia, probably would have saved several lives...alas, tragedy.

like i keep saying, just say you don't see the chemistry in / can't support loumand, or prefer the chemistry / want to support loustat. but claiming that louis never fell in love with armand prior to claudia's murder - that just is not supported by the show's text.

just fyi, i think saintarmand has a great answer to a similar ask, so i will also refer you to her response here.

[thedailydescent]

Madeleine: And I didn't tell her about Aimee because I didn't want her thinking she was...what was your word?

Claudia, looking pointedly at Louis: The replacement.

Madeleine: Right.

Claudia: So thank you for falling right back into Daddy Lou shoes. And thank you for never treating me like a child. Take some lessons, Louis.

Looking at just this it makes more sense Claudia said this line to Madeleine, not Armand.

[orangememesicle]

it’s so fucking funny seeing people have proship/antiship discussions about amc’s iwtv. my brother in christ this is the toxic abusive relationship franchise.

[knownoshamc]

There are people who think Armand triggered Daniel's Parkinson's in season 1????? That is such a bad take that I can't even get into how wrong it is. Armand really is the scapegoat whenever Louis or Lestat do something people don't like.

Yeah I saw it recently! It makes no sense to me.

The whole "Armand is the moustache twirling villain" aside from not making much sense, and Assad said he is not, and being loooowkey racist, it would also make this show very boring, I think

[alarrylarrie]

I’m just…

Spinning out, waiting for ya to pull me in

I can see you're lonely down there

Don't you know that I am right here?

She said, "Give me a day or two"

Wishing I could be there for ya

Listennnnn. You don’t want me to do this lol. It’s a CONSTANT theme. I could talk about this for DAYS.

All of Holding on to Heartache? “I called you twice but then regretted it, and changed my number…??!!”

This is a conversation they’ve been having since 1D days, but more pointedly now that they’re solo. HS1? “Even my phone misses your call, by the way.” Fine Line- “it’s hard for me to come home and be so lonely.” Walls- “I cut you off because I didn’t know no better” and basically ALL of Defenceless lol. Don’t even get me started on Faith In The Future.

[kingwaino]

i have done...an absolute deep dive into blues and folk music tonight. it was 100% one of those blink and three hours have passed type of deals. worth it though.

[spacedlexi]

A little while ago you said that you have nuanced feelings on Clem x Louis, and I think that’s how I’d describe my opinion on the ship as well. I was just wondering, what makes you feel that way? Personally, I think they’re romance scenes are cute and sweet, but the whole situation with Marlon makes me unable to see them as anything other than friends. I think they both mean a lot to each other, but the idea that they’d want to date so soon after that whole ordeal’s a bit of a stretch to me.

putting this under a read more so if anyone even Thinks they might get upset about mild louis opinions they can move on and stay happy. seriously people take this stuff too seriously sometimes and i dont want to stir anyone up but also im allowed to have my own opinions OKAY. none of this means i dont like him or them OKAY??

okay

thats pretty much where my opinions are too

the stuff with marlon and the vote is Definitely the biggest thing that influences my opinion about their romance. i always forget just how Cruel he is in EP2 😭 like im on your side dude what aj did was wrong can we just talk about this 😭 but he votes to kick them out. like his reaction about marlon doesnt bother me, its his insistence on kicking them out that does 😔 my clem will always forgive him for it, i believe him when he says he regrets it, but its gonna take some time for trust to build again. for both of them

having only one scene between his apology and the lock in was just not gonna happen for my clem. she was mad at him for it. aj almost died because of it. she might be doing better now but she still has trust issues and her trust was broken just as much as his was. he was fine with never seeing her again, sending her and aj out to their deaths because he struggled to accept his confused feelings about marlon. that pissed my clem off shdfksd she is barely keeping this child alive let alone herself. her face when ajs kicking the wall bro she was like "its so fucking over" 😭 cmon bro look at her shes dead inside have some compassion. and he still hits her with the "i dont know [if i want you to stay]" even after aj gets shot like cmon man...... Cmon.........

and while shes waiting for louis to finally be ready to talk about what happened with marlon (which my clem apologizes for in the dorm, she does genuinely feel bad about it), her and violet are only growing closer, focusing on preparing the school together for the bigger problem. clem knowing vi has her back is a huge source of relief in everything thats going on, and that means a Lot for my clem, who appreciates the idea of having a partner she can rely on. my clem is already sure of her feelings for vi by the time louis apologizes. but she appreciates his apology, and is looking forward to being friends again, because she did genuinely appreciate his friendship at the beginning. but her heart was really truly Broken about everything with marlon and the vote and i think thats gonna take more time to heal. depending on player choice some clems might not even forgive him (some others might say he was right and that clem didnt stop it but... i do not agree with that.. like how could she have... aasim calls mitch a hypocrite for saying the same thing)

the other less important thing is just his general blasé attitude. my clem takes things seriously, but that doesnt mean she doesnt know how to have fun. she Wants to. she just Cant. she has a child to take care of first, and she cares about the survival of the group. its why my clem is looking for someone she knows she can rely on. she never wanted any of this, and she just wants a little support, someone to help take the weight off so she CAN relax. shes so tired 😭. playing with louis while aasim hunts by himself made me feel Dirty 💀 (i literally couldnt do it the first time i felt so bad AASIM WAIT UP). and while i can understand and appreciate his "there might not be a tomorrow so enjoy today" outlook, it cant come at the expense of the group. louis i feel eventually learns this, finding a balance between the two, and Becomes someone clem can rely on. but his change doesnt begin until like.. after the raiders take everyone (because we have to get through the marlon stuff first). and if you save vi, you dont get to see any of it 😔

the thing about these two problems is that, if you were to take them out of this setting and throw them in like, a modern au, suddenly these are not issues anymore. no more life or death. the stakes are a lot lower. so i can see them dating in that scenario and having fun together. they do have cute moments!! but also due to less stakes, theres less to motivate louis to change. and i think they would fundamentally just not click on their worldviews. clem while she can have fun, ultimately takes things seriously, and louis doesnt. that doesnt mean they dont care about each other, and clem definitely appreciates his energy, but its why i see them still ending up as friends instead of romantic partners (esp if vi is around IM SORRY 😭 they just Click too well for me 😔 this is why my messy au exists 💀)

i also understand this is mostly personal preference and some people might like them for these reasons 😭 but the dynamic that they have i prefer as friends personally. theyre supportive of each other and deeply care about each other, just not romantically imo. especially not after the stuff with marlon. and thats ok!!!! i see it a lot like louis' relationship with vi. not romantic. but they Love each other regardless. honestly the reason why i like clem vi and louis as a trio so much is that clem slots between them really well. louis who doesnt take anything seriously, and vi who takes things Too seriously. clem exists between them. knowing having fun is important but also understanding the weight of responsibility. she helps louis become more responsible, and she helps vi chill the fuck out. she brings balance :)

i will say tho louis' "nothing wrong with short and sweet, right?" line was cute he got me there

[fayevalcntine]

The whole "Claudia is now his sister"/Louis' sibling comparisons are never gonna sit right with me because that's never going to erase the fact that Claudia exists as a vampire partly because of him. Their relationship will never have this clearly defined role of siblings in the same manner Louis had with Grace or Paul, even if he was their older brother and was implicitly given the role of providing for them as the successor and manager of his family's estate. Because Louis was never responsible in part for their creation, the reason why they existed the way that they do in terms of behavior and life itself.

It also makes his betrayal of her all the more heartbreaking in ways that him and Grace drifting apart never will. He was her father, and didn't provide emotional support for her. She had to turn the tables and try to assume the role of being on an equal level because of this failure but this doesn't make him not choosing her any less painful than it did the first time. Even as they shift roles, take or give emotional responsibility one has towards the other, the fact that Claudia exists the way she does because of him and Lestat will always be there.

[statementlou]

https://www.tumblr.com/louisupdates/754934426217152513/goodbye-faith-in-the-future-world-tour-272024?source=share

did he or did he not lose fans then?

I will answer this because this anon actually brings a concrete question to the table rather than just "hurhur but you're a larrie??" (tell me you can't actually refute any of our points…). Anyway this post shows the decrease in Louis instagram followers between the screenshots taken directly after the release of Faith in the Future in Nov '22, when he changed his bio to promote that album and the tour tickets, and now, when he changed it again to mention the current release. But I'm putting that response under a cut because I'm tired of the actual POINT of all this nonsense getting lost in a sea of made up things people insist are important:

There is no rational argument you can make to say that Louis has less fans now than he did 2, 4, or 6 years ago. You don't need a spreadsheet of details you need to USE YOUR EYES! He has gone from filling theaters to filling arenas and stadiums. His second album made a higher chart position than his first album. His festival has doubled in size EVERY year of its existence. And for that matter: his insta post engagement numbers remain about the same (despite the fact that older posts should have way MORE likes due to having been there longer, even aside from follower counts.) SO WHO FUCKING CARES ABOUT HIS INSTA FOLLOWER NUMBER???? Serious question: what does the word "fans" mean if these things aren't what matters? ALL of this quibbling about what he should do to make things better and people can't even see that THINGS AREN'T BAD.

Anyway to address the specific question- (con't......)

NO- HE DID NOT LOSE FANS. HE LOST SOME INSTA FOLLOWERS. THESE ARE NOT THE SAME THING. As I said above, literally what does it mean to lose fans if that number change coincides with him having higher sales, more audience members, and higher engagement than ever before? Whatever he lost ISN'T FANS. I wouldn't be surprised if a significant factor was something like a bot purge, but also yes: I'm sure a lot of casuals followed him around the time of his big album release and later unfollowed him. That's extremely normal because that's how casual engagement works, and why the definition of fan really matters. Louis and his team understand this and have referenced it repeatedly, talking about how lucky he is to have *us* specifically, to have the kind of dedicated fanbase he has, to have the KIND of fans he does who will allow him to do what HE wants. @dogsliampaynedoesntinstagram named the issue of depth vs breadth with regard to fans a long time ago, and pointed out why having DEPTH is so much more important. It's like this- artists who are on top 40 radio have more numbers on things like insta follows, and for a time on sales and tickets. But those aren't FANS- they're people with a casual interest. And as soon as that person isn't being forced in their ears 10x a day, those people lose interest and stop supporting them, stop buying stuff and unfollow, and those artists end up doing the 'opener on the jingle ball' circuit rather than their own tours. One Direction as a whole, and Louis maybe most of all or near to at this point, have something MUCH MORE VALUABLE than that- DEPTH FANS. Louis has fans who will support him even if he takes years to release music, or stops parading around with a pretend girlfriend to stay in the headlines at least once a month, or completely changes his image and genre, and that is UNHEARD OF. It's ASTONISHING and worth SO MUCH MORE. And they get that! THAT is why he always bragging about us, why industry people he works with are always so agog about us, why he will do anything for US- not for randos. He is also growing his breadth- and it's OBVIOUSLY WORKING whatever his follower counts are, but that is always going to be secondary to doing things for THE FANDOM because that is his sustainable business model. That is what keeps him onstage and reaching number one. And not coincidentally, the things they do are also working to grow that- much more valuable- commodity. So the fact that that's exactly what these chuckleheads complain about- that he does things that are just fandom facing or serving rather than everything being aimed at recruiting casual fans- does nothing but betray how completely they, unlike Louis and his team, misunderstand the actual drivers of his (actual, existing, happening) success. Luckily for Louis, he and his team rely on their own data harvesting (they do a LOT of it) and growth metrics (they're off the charts) rather than the smug assumptions of random (mostly quite new to this) fans and the few bitter people leading the complaining about everything Louis does.

[stop-breaking-my-heart-telltale]

Sorry, but can I just stress something about Louis that drives me insane? 

In his route where you've saved him, he kills Dorian. Louis directly kills another person. He shot her with a crossbow through the mouth.

It’s unavoidable. 

Sure, it’s considered an accident, and even so, it was also self-defense—Dorian sure wasn’t there for a friendly chat, after all. 

But here's the thing... of the Ericson crew, we know that Clementine, AJ, and Marlon have killed someone. And Minerva if you want to count her, too, since she once was part of the group . But the others? Maybe they have killed before and we just don’t know about it, whether it be out of mercy or self-defense.

Violet in her route had the chance to kill Minerva, but understandably, she didn’t. She opted to shoot her in the shoulder instead… but we never see her kill anyone herself. 

Maybe you could count indirect kills because of the bag of bricks/log that kills Yonatan, and maybe you could consider Mitch’s death as indirectly Tenn’s fault… Speaking of Mitch, he tried to kill Lilly, but we all saw how that turned out, didn't we? 

…but Louis? He killed Dorian. That was his first kill. His first. 

And he feels awful about it! He apologizes to the body as it lays warm at his feet! He’s shaking and can barely speak!! It feels like bile! He doesn't even have time to process it because uh oh, the boat's going to explode!

But he’s also been so hardened over the season by everything that’s happened to him that he comes out of it glad that he has it in him to kill because if that’s what it takes to protect Clementine, AJ, and his family and home, then he’ll do it even if he doesn’t want to.

How does that not drive anyone else utterly mad?

Fandom considers him the funny guy! He's cute and silly! He makes Clementine laugh!

He's also done murder! He's taken a life! Just like Clementine and AJ have! Just like Marlon did!

And honestly, I think this also leads to him forgiving AJ for killing Tenn because at this point, he understands. He hates it, and he wishes it didn’t have to be this way, but he gets that AJ saw something that he didn’t. Louis knows that AJ’s hurting just as much as he is, he even says as much if Clementine says anything other than “AJ saved your life” on the bridge. 

He relived Marlon’s death when Tenn died, but it’s not like his hands are clean, either… and neither were Marlon’s. Clementine’s hands definitely aren’t clean. 

It drives me crazy that best friends Louis and Marlon have each killed someone in TFS but Marlon killed Brody in a moment of panic because he’s a coward who wanted hide what he did while Louis killed Dorian in a moment of panic because he was trying to save Clementine from Minerva and she came up behind him like… hhhhnnnnggggggggg, y’know?

Oh, and don't even get me started on the clouis aspect of this because I'll lose it. He talks to her about it because he knows she'll understand, just like how she's always understood him. How he goes out of his way to tell her that having a home means protecting it and he's going to protect it [that home being her, AJ, and Ericson] no matter what because he wants to build this new life with her aaaaaaaaaaaaaand I've lost it—

[in-kyblogs]

I need to make a confession to y’all. I am a nicky hater #armandcore

[llycaons]

every time one of those obnoxious posts about how ~real adults~ (read: morally superior beings) consume 'big-kid' media with themes more complicated than steven universe I'm always like but you know you actually have to put the work into analyzing that right. you can't claim that intellectual edge if you don't actually examine what you're consuming, or what the story is trying to tell you

you know people aren't just sensitive about abuse and SA and incest in fiction because they're overly sensitive crybabies, it's because that kind of violence exists in real life and how you interact with it in fiction is at least partially an indication of how you interact with it in real life. like...attitudes towards fictional abuse are less an indictment of moral character on their own than an indication of how that individual understands and responds to real-life people who have undergone that kind of violence. we learn from and act based on fiction! very often!

and yeah...I do think people who romanticize a white man's abuse of his black partner in a carefully constructed story ABOUT antiblack racism and victim blaming are probably really shitty towards real people (esp black people) who have been abused. like...do we remember how much humiliation, refusal to believe, and vitriol abuse victims get? do we remember the amber heard trial? how people reacted to megan thee stallion being shot? especially for women, especially for black women. it's so frustrating to see abuse constantly watered down and joked abt on here in a fictional context when ppl still do constantly excuse and romanticize and downplay it in real life...like...this ruins lives...