#and if you want to be evil and do what Bhaal wants his plan actually makes no logical sense

[spawnofbhaal]

I'm realizing that, as good of a game as BG3 is, the lack of narrative cohesion that comes from having a central protagonist and central villain makes it feel more like a collection of D&D side stories than a true successor to BG2. It's like, here's a sprinkle of the Bhaalspawn experience (with Durge) without the slow progression of level 1 to level 30+ where finally throwing off the shackles of Bhaal (one way or another) feels earned and such a relief. Not just because of the way Bhaal's shadow hangs over the player character (also dead!Bhaal is somehow more intimidating than alive!Bhaal, go figure. You'd never catch BG3 Bhaal saying something meaningful like the "life is strength" speech), but because of how much grief other people in the world give your character because of their heritage. People in the world are constantly trying to use your character like a tool, exile them, capture them, torture them, or kill people they love. Being a Bhaalspawn isn't just a personal problem your character has to deal with, it's the source of *all* their problems.

Granted, BG1 and BG2 had the advantage of being two long games (plus expansions) that are really focused on telling a story rather than just one that's torn between telling six/seven stories. Which isn't to say that the overall feeling and experience of playing BG2 can't change a lot depending on what companions/quests you choose, but the overall plot is about one character---yours.

Of course, BG3 does some things incredibly well (or much better than unmodded BG, like giving players way more diverse romance options). And if you *want* the experience of playing through a game as separate characters who have totally different personal quests that are not intertwined with the ultimate big bad (other than the typical "save/rule the world" trope), BG3 is obviously the better game to play. But as someone who loves the whole concept of "Baldur's Gate" because BG1 and BG2 left such a lasting impression on me/literally rewired my brain . . . it doesn't hold up. I love my Durge but she feels like a shallow imitation of my Charname if I compare them.

[autistichalsin]

Analysis of each character's final words in the new Dark Urge evil ending

If you are romanced to a character, you have the option, when taking the new version of the Sins of the Father ending, to kill your partner in front of the others in your party, killing them with one last kiss. They then give their last words and pass away. I love each and every one and feel they are incredible characterization moments.

So let's break these down!

Lae'zel:

I... I am glad it was you. No other blade would have sufficed.

This is something that hammers home that, Vlaakith or no, Lae'zel deeply believes in all the ideals of a Githyanki. Life is a privilege for the strong, and death is the price of weakness. Further, if romanced, Lae'zel will affectionately call you "the source of my bruises" many times. If she has to die, if she has finally found the one person stronger than herself, then she is "satisfied" that it is you- who she both loved and admired. The only one she would ever consider worthy of besting her.

Karlach:

Fuck you.

Short, simple, and to the point, just the way Karlach does everything else. She's already gone through all her stages of grief with her engine- well, almost all of them. Anger still remains. She burns hot until the end.

Wyll:

I... I forgive you.

This isn't just Wyll being a good guy. This is heartbreak, and guilt. Guilt for not saving you from Bhaal's influence when he was so sure he had. Heartbreak that after he gave his literal soul to save as many people as he could, he couldn't save you- and couldn't save others from you, either. All he sacrificed, negated in an instant by the person he loved and trusted most. Of all the characters here, Wyll (tied with Halsin) sounds the most obviously broken, and it's easy to see why, given that he is self-sacrificing to a fault.

There was a set of scenes datamined from the game, where at the Morphic Pool, the Netherbrain would have taunted the players, causing them to hallucinate things related to their fears and insecurities. Wyll's would have been a vision of himself talking about how he was never a hero, how the Blade of Frontiers was a farce all along. One can't help but think about that scene here, wondering just how much blame, bordering on self-loathing, he might feel here.

Dark Justiciar Shadowheart:

I... I'm coming to you, Lady Shar.

Another short and simple one. By becoming a Dark Justiciar, Shadowheart has fully embraced the nihilism of Shar's teachings. Why be saddened or angry at her own death when this is just what she's embraced with all her sacrifices?

(Sidenote: this does also answer a question I had, namely, what was going to happen to everyone Durge kills. Thankfully it seems they aren't actually going to be sacrificed to him as such, and will indeed end up in the realm of their deities. This makes Bhaal's plan even DUMBER, because deities in DND lore need worshippers to have enough power to exist. Killing everyone at once just guarantees that soon after Durge dies as the last person alive, so too will Bhaal fade from existence.)

Selunite Shadowheart:

I... I thought we were going to save each other...

This Shadowheart rejected everything she knew. She was scared to defy her goddess, but worked up the courage- thanks to you. She thought you would have a new life together. She believed in you. She thought she would get to return the favor, and help you turn the page on Bhaal, too.

She's not just heartbroken for herself; she's heartbroken for you, too. Heartbroken at the life you denied both her and yourself.

Gale:

You made me want to live...

From the moment the orb entered Gale's chest, he knew he was at risk of dying. Then Mystra all but marked him as a dead man walking. But despite that, he finds love with you- and for the first time thinks maybe there is a purpose for him beyond Mystra. That he isn't more useful to the world dead. More than that, he wants to live to be with you, to enjoy your company and companionship. And then you kill him, and do the one thing WORSE than what would have happened if he'd never been pulled from that rock.

It almost would have been kinder to just hack his hand off the first time you met him, though Gale may or may not agree.

Spawn Astarion:

I should have killed you when I had the chance...

The angriest, most bitter response out of all the romanced companions, a step beyond Karlach's "fuck you." This is beyond "fuck you" and even beyond "I hate you." It's "I regret every moment I spent with you." You made him believe he could have better. That he could recover from what Cazador did. You even convinced him to spare the 7,000 spawn and that he could be something better than Cazador.

And now you reveal it was all a lie. Astarion is probably thinking that you talked him out of completing the ritual solely so he'd be easier to kill right here and now. How many regrets are flashing through his mind, how many moments where he wonders if things could have been different if only he'd done this or that, even aside from killing you?

All he wanted was to live as a free person. And then the first time he thinks he has that at last, he loses it as the world ends.

Ascended Astarion:

No... no, this can't be... I can't- you can't- no...

In contrast to spawn Astarion, ascended isn't angry, because he doesn't have the clarity, the ability to process what's happening. Spawn Astarion could tell he'd been betrayed.

But Ascended? Ascended, who went through so much to become one of the most powerful beings in the world, only to STILL lose without fanfare? And by you, his own spawn who he thought he had under his control? It isn't betrayal, because he is bluescreening; he can't comprehend what happened or how or why. How could he have been killed, and by you of all people? Was all he went through killing Cazador really for nothing? How could it be when he was supposed to be the most powerful? Was power actually meaningless all along?

He doesn't say anything of substance because he can't understand what's happening here.

Halsin:

Thaniel... goodbye...

Halsin is the oldest of all the companions. He's experienced the most loss of anyone; his birth family, his fellow Druids, and, for a time, Thaniel. He has had more than enough time to contemplate his own mortality, because he's already lived multiple lifetimes.

So here, two things are happening. One, he isn't expressing anger or betrayal at his murder- because he is more than wise enough, and humble enough, to understand that there are worse things than what has been done to himself. Instead of himself, he is thinking of the world he's leaving behind that is about to fall- and most of all, of his most important person, the one who gave him a purpose, who was there when no one else was, who he failed once and only just got back. The closest thing to a child he'll ever have. In his last moments, instead of himself, Halsin is thinking of those he loves.

And second, it's an almost deliberate snubbing of Durge. He willingly walked into that kiss, knowing full well it would be the last thing he ever did. He gave you his death, he pleaded with his own god to forgive you and him both. He gave you everything he felt he owed you, and no more- no begging or sobbing. Instead, he comes as close as he ever gets to selfishness, and spends his last moments thinking about the thing that makes him the happiest- which could have been you, in another life, if you hadn't done this.

Minthara:

No... we were meant to do this together...

Heartbreak, disbelief, and betrayal. You spent so many nights planning this out. She had been cast aside by her people, her goddess, and she was going to get the last laugh. She was going to crush them personally under her heel and prove she was the best (or second best, behind you) of all of them. She's devastated she won't get to help you torture all those souls and take what she feels was owed to her. But interestingly enough... no anger. Probably because it was overshadowed by the sheer heartbreak, but also a sign that even in those moments, she still admires you for your ruthlessness.

[y-rhywbeth2]

Thinking about other gods and that letter from Sarevok you can get in the epilogue as Durge that makes me extremely nauseous led to me to remember similar things in Realmslore, which now that I think about it is going under a cut for issues involving the gods, consent, and breeding your own servants:

Durge is kind of like Bhaal's basically created a kid whose role in his plans is simultaneously the Seven Sisters - the previous Mystra's seven demigod kids, created when she realised that most mortals cannot contain her divine essence without dying or losing touch with reality - and Elué Shundar - the woman Mystra possessed in order to conceive and birth those kids, deceiving her "husband" (he had no idea what was happening, he just knew his crush was suddenly really into him, and I'm not sure Elué was interested in him in the first place) and killing her in the process - leaving her "a [lich and a] crumbling shell kept alive only through Mystra’s power."

To wit:

"[Mystra] set about breeding individuals to serve as her Chosen, rather than trying to induce mature and powerful mortals into her service. In this way she hoped to avoid the problems she encountered with those she selected at maturity, who had long-held dreams, feuds, and grudges of their own that tended to draw them away from what she wanted them to do and be."

Thank you for giving Bhaal these ideas, Mystra II; because it's not just Bhaal who's into the weird breeding programs. This is a thing the gods are known to do on occasion.

Bane seems to have taken the "sane" route: bang out one (1) kid with a fallen paladin (or demon, the story varies) then consume that kid's soul to resurrect yourself. Nice and simple.

Mystra had the Seven Sisters, and then Mielikki's mortal boyfriend eventually got to hear his goddess inform him that she needs him to go and breed with one of Mystra's kids for the Greater Good.

There are actually more layers of what the fuck to this kind of stuff, like swapping unborn infant souls and such, but moving on.

And of course Bhaal decided to have hundreds of kids, and in recent times has started playing matchmaker with them.

"[If your partner is not producing suitable Bhaalspawn] we may need to find you a breeding-mate. Or ten."

Considering the only examples we have of Bhaal's matchmaking, the list of candidates is going to be like: monsters, your fellow Bhaalspawn relatives... Things that Bhaal can mix his own murder impulses with to create more murderous/evil-inclined/powerful offspring-servants seems to be the goal, so fiends are probably on the list.

[crossdressingdeath]

Now that I have everyone's responses to the "Durge was an Absolutist leader" reveal, I have thoughts. I think the whole thing works best if you tell the party about you being Bhaalspawn before going to the inauguration, because if you do that they're all like "It's okay, you don't have to be evil, you can fight your father, you have to fight your father" and while some Durges would probably be upset about the repeated insistence that they Mustn't Be Evil it's definitely well-intentioned and they want to support you. And then you get to the inauguration and they're furious about the Absolutist reveal. Which is mostly fair (Shadowheart getting mad at you specifically for not telling anyone when she knows you have amnesia is just a little unreasonable), but it's also like. all that support goes away the second they learn you weren't a good little non-murdery heroic Bhaalspawn like Gorion's Ward. To be fair, their anger and sense of betrayal are understandable, it's a hell of a thing to learn and I get the sense that the party really doesn't grasp just how strong Bhaal's hold on Durge is (I don't think it's a coincidence that Jaheira and Minsc are two of the calmest about the Bhaalspawn reveal or that Jaheira takes the Bhaal's Chosen reveal better than most of the party, they have more experience and so have a better understanding of what being Bhaalspawn actually means, but even they don't as far as I'm aware know about the "literally crafted from Bhaal's divine essence" situation)! I can definitely see why they for the most part react so overwhelmingly negatively, I would too in their position. But at the same time... poor Durge? I mean, they've just learned that they were a leader of the cult that stuck a tadpole in their and most of their friends' heads and is trying to take over the world. While the response to that would vary depending on the Durge, that's a heavy thing to suddenly have to deal with! And then the closest thing to support they get from the party is Minthara and Jaheira saying "Well, you fucked up big time but you can still sort of make up for it" and a couple party members not responding to it at all. The only person in this situation who seems pleased to have them around right now is Gortash.

...I wonder if that's part of the reason why Gortash chooses to reveal all of this here and now in front of the party rather than trying to find a moment to talk to Durge privately. It wouldn't have been hard for him to say "Well, I want to talk to the leader of your group privately and I won't give you any information until I get to do so," make it into some sort of power play or something and then explain the situation once they were alone. It might even have been smarter, since that way the party wouldn't be suspicious of Durge. But instead he spills the beans in front of everyone, driving a wedge between Durge and the rest of the group. The others love Durge enough to stick by them even after the reveal, but Gortash couldn't have known that would be the case when he told them! It doesn't make sense to deliberately cause problems among the party if he wants them working together as a team to deal with Orin for him, but it does make sense if his ultimate goal is to get rid of the rest of the party so he and Durge can rule together as was the original plan. After all, if the group decided they don't want a (former) Absolutist leader around and chase Durge away, where could Durge go other than straight to Gortash?

[mywitchcultblr]

Odd question for you:

So, the humor of Batstarion aside, do some people just elect to read their own biases into things involving Ascended Astarion. I recall being early in the fandom and assuming based on general commentary he just locked you in his basement and then molests you.

Then: when I actually ascended him and am looking forward to this whole fantasy I just get a goofy, camp vampire Lord who literally lets you live your life. Where do I get a refund? Where is my vampire daddy? lol

Am I alone in this???

No, you are not alone. I found a lot of people who have a strong negative opinion about endings for bg3 companion... How I should explain it in English? Playing the telephone game? Where they are only receiving bits of information and never really experienced the ending themselves or at least never really thought about it deeply because they already developed a bias from these fragmented information and encouragement from like-minded people who share the same bias. Thus, the truth and nuance became diluted amidst the buzz and discourse. For example, Gale endings

GALE HAS NO EVIL ENDING. YES, THE GOD ENDING IS NOT EVIL

People mistook his ambition and huge ego as evil? I think this rooted from "God Gale doesn't propose Tav/Durge unlike human gale, so God ending must have been bad"

"Gale become power hungry, so it must be the evil ending and a bad ending" and "Larian said power is bad"

Gale is a neutral guy, as a human he is neutral good and as a God he became a neutral aligned God. His ascension to Godhood doesn't turn him into Bane or Bhaal, developing an ego big enough to the point he became a god doesn't make him evil or this ending evil. You might dislike it, but objectively, this ending is not evil or bad...

Gale bad ending is him dying and never resurrected, never recruited or sacrificed to BOAAL because they led to his untimely death before he can destroy the brain, reach the crown, or determine what he wanted, how he will approach Mystra...

"But Mystra will kill God Gale because he challenged her!" That is a possibility in his origin ending, before the epilogue is even released, now we got to see new and improved epilogue Gale can take his lover to his realm where they will enjoy their life as Gods, and he has a lot of plan, and although he kinda insinuates that he wanted to challenge Mystra, maybe Tav or Durge can persuade him to not do it

"What if he has no romantic partner?" Maybe he will challenge her, or maybe he will not. I found the ending where Gale immediately going after Mystra to be frustrating, it feels like Larian insisting on the 'power bad' thing in such an on the nose and irritating manner

Gale might have a big ego but HE IS NOT AN IDIOT, he is not a barbarian with 8 intellect, even when he's drunk on power he is still a highly intellectual person/being, and surely he should know that it will take a lot of time and resource for him to be able to challenge Mystra, is it even a good idea to fight her? What would AO say?

He should just focus on his own domain and followers

Same thing with Wyll, this guy HAS NO EVIL ENDING. WYLL CANNOT BE CORRUPTED. Yet there are people out there who say that him becoming a Duke is an evil ending, HOW?!

Now, Astarion... God help us all with this guy. The moment I saw his picture for the first time, I know his fandom will be a disaster

White, sassy, morally gray, handsome, twink, vampire with a sad backstory... The perfect tumblr sexyman, I love him, but I knew the conversation about him will be a mess and headache inducing

Ascendant Astarion is NOT a bad ending, is it evil? Yes, is it bad? No.

It is bad for the city to have yet another vampire lord, an even MORE powerful vampire lord who has no vampirism weakness, but this is NOT bad for him. He enjoyed the power, he enjoyed the freedom, and he finally reclaimed everything that Cazador took from him and even more. I found the notion that ascended astarion 'is not truly free' to be baffling because Cazador is gone, no one can compel him and enslave him anymore, and he is freed from all vampirism weakness.

So long Cazador is dead, both spawn and ascended astarion will be free and have the choice to lead the life they wanted. An outsider moral interpretation of his choice is not his own opinion

"Ascended Astarion regret his choice." No, he never did. I didn't find a single conversation or scene that say he regrets his ascension

"Ascended Astarion is meaner and more evil, so this fate is bad." Your feeling about him doesn't translate to what he feels and how he sees his life and choice...

Or like you said about people claimed. "Astarion will lock Tav/Durge in his basement and molest them" Now, is ascendant romance more toxic and darker than spawn romance? Yes (although it is pretty tame by vampire/yandere standard) but how he treat his lover also depends on Tav/Durge attitude towards him, their personality, their goal and YOUR OWN ideas/ interpretation...

Baldur's Gate give you 'hard canon' and things that you can interpret on your own because it is dungeon & dragons! Hard canon or fixed canon is something like "Orin will die either way" and "If you don't spare nightsong then Last Light will be destroyed." and then there are things that you can decide and interpret on your own such as how your Tav/Durge fare after the last battle, their background, their family, and how their romance with companions play out

There are dialogues or scenes that hinted the future but at the same time there are several options and each dialogue option will lead to a different universe such as whatever you encourage Wyll to be the blade of avernus or becoming a Duke

What irritated me is that there's people who doesn't like his ascension romance, and they be like "Well I don't like this romance and i don't like him now, so I see your Tav/Durge WILL NEVER BE HAPPY WITH HIM AND IT IS A FACT!" NO, THAT IS NOT HOW IT IS WORK!

You cannot enforce your own narrative perspective into other people's. "What about the 'freedom' dialogue in patch 5?! If you clash with Astarion he will-" like I said each dialogue choice lead to a branching multiverse, just because one person have a conflict with ascended astarion doesn't mean my Tav who is very devoted to him have the same problem or will not be happy

Also, patch 5 confirmed the theory that Astarion turned his lover into a bride/groom instead of regular spawn. If you chose a dialogue option that hinted Tav/Durge feel trapped and doubted if they are truly flourishing, then Astarion will say something like (I'm paraphrasing here) "Well, I give you everything! And I will make sure that you live your best life, even if you don't appreciate it!"

A bride/groom has an emotional and mental link with their creator, if Tav/Durge is not happy then Ascended Astarion will feel unhappy as well. Mind you my Tav (Astaroth) doesn't say he feels trapped, he said that he is happy with Astarion and grateful to share everything with him and then Astarion said that he is blessed to be with Astaroth as well then he also said:

"I may have power, but it would be nothing without you. You complete me."

I don't do Karlach romance, and although I have my own thoughts that if Astaroth romanced her (tbh the guy is gay so he has to be bi/pan in alternate universe) in the end he will feel a bit disappointed with being trapped in hell, doesn't mean I have the rights to ENFORCE that Karlach/Tav romance in general will be unhappy and tragic just because of MY OWN interpretation...

People also shouldn't enforce their own choice for Astarion as

"THE TRUE AND CORRECT CHOICE FOR ASTARION AND IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ME YOU ARE DELUSIONAL AND DUMB"

[justsierrasart]

ORIN IS THE DARK URGE’S DAUGHTER - HEADCANON

Lycoris and Orin

Alright guys. This one’s going to be a woosy. I do not like the Orin incest plot line. I hate it, in fact. And I also do not like the lack of proper connection between Orin and The Dark Urge. The Dark Urge lore itself is a bit plot-holey (I highly recommend reading this reddit thread by u/TheLaughingWolf to understand the rest of this rant, and supplementary, this one by u/Thelmageworks to become an Orin sympathizer.)

My point is - I love the Dark Urge’s grim past and uncontrollable urges. I don’t love the final version of their lore. So I fucking rewrote it for myself, and wanna share my hyper fixated art within this headcanon of mine, so I’m going to explain it. This headcanon is specifically written for my drow Durge - Lycoris, but I’m fine with people using it for their Durges with modification. It doesn’t make sense for the original Durge (Dragonborn). To reiterate - the incest made me uncomfortable and the lore felt incomplete so I rewrote it for myself — not trying to step on any toes. This somehow still contains incest because I made it up before finishing my Durge run and didn’t realize he was actually related to Bhaal, literally and not figuratively. But it’s less than what we have in canon. Let’s go.

I’m assuming you know the canon Durge lore and have read the reddit thread above.

1. The Durge (my Lycoris) is a Bhaalspawn born like other Bhaalspawns, in 1357 (a year before Bhaal’s death in 1358). Genetically, he is half his biological mother’s genes and half Bhaal’s genes (not a half drow because Bhaal’s race doesn’t change his spawn’s race because he’s a deity, not a human). However Bhaal’s essence duplicated itself in him, instead of splitting like it did with the other Bhaalspawn. This was part of Bhaal’s plan - he intended one of his spawns to be superior (like in canon - the Durge is made of his flesh). This also makes it so bhaal’s revival makes sense despite Lycoris being alive — he’s not holding any of his divinity as he has his own. He is raised outside the cult like canon Durge and joins later on.

Young Lycoris, pre-cult

2. When he joins the cult, later than his siblings, he quickly rises up in ranks and is revealed to be the superior Bhaalspawn. Lycoris is, like in canon, Bhaal’s favorite, and is also Bhaal’s stallion as said. But he does this “breeding” (which still sounds gross) outside of the cult, to further spread Bhaalspawn into the world. Sarevok sees this and because he thinks very highly of himself, wants his blood to mix with Lycoris’. He’s somewhat infatuated with his absolute vile sadism, and being the weirdo he is, wants to breed with him. Obviously can’t do that because they’re both male, so decides to breed his daughter, Helena with him. Here’s where I accidentally did incest again - Helena is technically Lycoris’ half-niece (Sarevok is his half-brother through Bhaal). This is in the 1450s-60s.

3. 1465 Orin is born out of Lycoris and Helena. Lycoris has always had somewhat of a soft spot for kids (as ritualistically murderous as he is, he doesn’t enjoy murdering kids for no reason like he does adults). He also had never stuck around and seen his spawn be born and exist. The second he sees her, he’s absolutely in love. She becomes the center of his universe. Classic evil evil father daughter where he’s a vile maniac and has no morals, except for loving his daughter to the moon and back. Helena, on the other hand, is quite cold to Orin from the get go. She loves her, but in a distant way. She knows loving a bhaalspawn child is useless, Lycoris does too, but doesn’t really care. Additionally, he loves her so deeply that his urges cannot get to her.

4. As per canon, Helena attacks Orin when she’s 7, causing her to make her first kill. Lycoris, though generally a very loving father, is also a murder cult leader, so he’s quite proud of her for this. From there on, he teaches Orin his ways, and watches her bloom into the absolute erratic maniac we know and love. He’s amused by her artistic approach to murder like a dad is amused at his child’s art - something Bhaal doesn’t necessarily approve of but tolerates (as Lycoris is his favorite).

Orin, Lycoris, and Helena. Orin is 14, Lycoris 98 (when Orin is born), Helena 35 (when she is killed by Orin).

5. Orin, as a child, loved her father very much, much more than her mother or grandfather, whom she respected more than loved. Their bond was beyond that of any bond seen within the cult. Sarevok, who was the reason she existed, thought this was completely unjust. Because he can’t let people be happy, he starts planting the seeds of envy and hatred in teenage Orin. That, combined with the competitive nature of the cult and the sheer amount of spoiling Lycoris subjected her to (he was a loving father but not necessarily a good parent with healthy boundaries - he never punished her, never said a mean word to her, never set any boundaries - she grew up thinking the world is her oyster.) resulted in her wanting all of his power for herself. She didn’t really want to kill him — she did love him deeply, but she was also very envious and her only coping mechanism with anything, ever, had always been murder. Lycoris welcomed this enthusiasm, and did not feel concerned about her threats of violence. He encouraged her to hunt him and murder him if she thought she could. He knew she couldn’t.

6. She couldn’t. Many, many times, she tried her hand at assassinating him, only getting slightly condescending constructive criticism in response. However finally, in 1492, she gained the upper hand on her father, almost killing him, but hesitating, and leaving him in his tadpole-amnesiac state we seem him as in the nautiloid. She deemed his love for her a weakness, and raised a bet that he would, as an amnesiac, resist his urges and become a weakling (be a decent person). She believed her existence had already been enough to debase his authority — he was not the Dark Urge that came to rise up the ranks and hold power that he was before. She was as powerful as him, if not more. Her oversight, of course, was that she was also as weak as him. She loved her father and could never kill him.

7. He remembers her now after getting his memories back, and he’s desperately searching for her (wants to turn her to redemption too). Because I made sure he’s nice to every single kid he meets (being a papa bear deep inside all along), Yenna is at camp and Orin kidnaps her. Because how dare you take my dad. Also to be extra mean to a Lycoris - you think you can replace me? Nope. I’ll steal that one too.

So that’s where that’s at. I haven’t gotten to the Orin boss fight in this run yet and so haven’t decided if I should give her a, potentially cheesy, redemption arc or if I should be absolutely vile to Lycoris and make him murder his baby girl. Haven’t decided yet 🤭

If you don’t like my silly angst headcanon please just scroll by, don’t be mean! <3 Thanks for reading this nerd shit if you did!

Credits : Lycoris’ face design is a custom preset by the incredible Toarie on NexusMods, specifically Petric Body Type 4.

[sequesteredbhaalspawn]

I really want to make an all encompassing post at some point on how Larian fails at writing evil (in bg3) and two other all encompassing posts about how they failed at writing Viconia and Sarevok in particular. That isn't what this post is going to be, but I just need to air some things out for myself.

LIKE if you take all of the trauma that the bg3 companions have and combined them into one character, you have Viconia. And if you put in the effort to help her become a better person- becoming true neutral in alignment (the same alignment as Jeheira btw), you really get to see all of that. And yes it takes until the end of Throne of Bhaal to do, and it is actual work. You have to try, and keep at it, and it;s hard. It's not "just say nice things and then good things happen" there are a lot of ups and downs and unlearning of toxic behaviors that Viconia goes through. It takes time. It it's so rewarding to see her reach that.

I've said my piece on Seravok before. BUT I think it's extremely fucked they took such a nuanced antagonist, someone who killed a person your player characters is suppose to love (if you think they see that person as family) and you can still reach out to him, help him. make see how he was wrong and how it hurt him and the people he loved. get his alignment to change from chaotic evil all the way to chaotic good. But then Larian makes a black man who is incestuous and very abusive to his extremely white looking daughter/granddaughter. It's just so awful. I hated seeing it so much. Like seriously- why the fuck did they do that? It makes no sense. And I do think it's important to point out Sarevok being black. Larian treat the black characters in bg3 rather poorly. It's racist. Doesn't matter if they did it intentionally or not. If anyone is a black fan I would love to read any addition you'd want to add to this post.

They also just get so much wrong about this character? He was never a Bhaal worshiper. He wanted to use his situation of being a Bhaalspawn to obtain godhood. And this self distributive path is what causes Tamako to leave him. Because she knew she was going to loose him anyways if he didn't stop. And then he got into a new relationship where his new parent encourage his self destruction and benefited from it. Post series, in the end game slides, regardless if you helped Sarevok change his alignment or not, he personally escorts Tamoko's body back to her homeland, Kara-Tur (if you're interested there is a mod that let's Tamoko live and become a companion of Gorion's Ward. I haven't played with it yet, but I plan on checking it out. There are so many mods that let poc companions with scripted deaths live, it nice to see- even if those deaths could have been not written or at the very least have the abilities to save them should have been there from the beginning.)

Both of these characters are about the cycle of abuse, on rather it gets broken or not. Just like the companions from bg3 are. But Larian says "no they failed and in fact are irredeemable"

It's shocking that games from 1998 and 2001 had a better discussion on restorative justice. And yes it's a fantasy setting where you care suppose to fight people, you're not going to be able to do that with every character. But doing this better than a game in 2024? When we have so much more resources and knowledge about this? It's just disheartening.

That isn't to say that the original games didn't have their flaws, they very much did. The stuff from bg3 is just more raw right now.

[lizzychanstuffss]

Because I am feral for pre-game durge x Gortash cause villains in love that I don't actually have to roleplay is very fun for me to write about!

here are my headcanons for each of my Durges and their relationship with Gortash was.

Spoilers for the entirety of dark urge

Lilith x Gortash

Lilith has very low self esteem which stays a constant even when the game starts, yes this is because she sees herself as nothing but a monster. But oh boy Gortash came into the picture he started to compliment her and most likely told her "You know you aren't a monster they think you are" and she was so desperate to hear that from ANYONE that she ate it up

Like the whole plan to take over the sword coast and such was given to her by bhaal and she just figured "Okay I'll do it if it gets you off my back" and then Gortash most likely pitied her cause she didn't have anyone to talk to about stuff and just ended up opening up to Gortash and he probably felt bad that she was just kind of doing this so she could maybe have a normal life.

Lilith fully would sometimes use the excuse of "Gortash told me not to kill that person" so bhaal wouldn't punish her. It's not like bhaal is going to ruin the whole plan just cause Lilith is lying so she doesn't have to kill someone like that would be stupid.

After sometime of spending time together and just spending late nights talking and getting to know each other and several glasses of wine most likely or whatever other drinks. the two of them fuck and then Lilith confesses she feels quite deeply for the man, prompting Gortash to of course brush it off at first cause they're drunk.

After a while, though the two can no longer deny their feelings and start up a relationship they keep on the down low for the most part. Also keeping it on the down low in case things fall horribly apart either because of bhaal or some other reason they are both aware that this could go horribly wrong but it's something they both enjoy and don't want to let go of quite yet.

Of course it does go horribly wrong in a way neither could predict, and what makes it worse is Lilith was going to forsake the entire plan and just ask Gortash to marry her and run away. Now I like to imagine Orin hualed Lilith's body all the way to Gortash's office and then threw the corpse at him and Gortash heartbroken didn't know what to do so he tried his best to make it better and basically her corpse sent off to the colony in hopes that maybe one of the necromancers would raise her from the dead and well his wishes came true.

During this time that Lilith goes full feral he comes to visit her under the guise of just making sure things are going smoothly all the while just taking his time to mourn the loss of his lover. Now during this time I fully believe that Lilith had a note with a ring ready to give Gortash and he actually found it on Lilith's body and has kept it ever since.

Now onto the other pairing who is way more chill then Lilith is

Siliin(she/they) x Gortash

Siliin does have self-esteem issues but this is mainly whenever they get into the main game. Otherwise they just cant be bothered to look down on herself.

She concocted the plan by herself and started to put the plan into motion before realizing they needed help and then finding Gortash. Realizing the two of them work together well fully welcomed him into the fray soon after.

Siliin is more of a freak in actual weird fucked up ways then Lilith is and Siliin really isn't as disgusted by their urges as Lilith is. Like Siliin likes to indulge sometimes while Lilith will indulge but more out of habit then actually want to. Meanwhile Siliin they enjoy the fucked up shit, yeah you wanna eat this flesh off a corpse hell yeah brother they're all for it you go!

Now Siliin is not evil by any means, yeah she's fucked up in the brain but like she's not really going to go out of her way to be a bad person cause it just isn't what she feels like doing. Like besies the urges she has no real drive to do evil things.

Now Siliin also doesn't have a drive to really do good things either and therefore that's kind of why they work as a the dark urge cause they just do whatever is easiest and submitting to the urges is easier then fighting of course once they get into the game they actually do put in a little more effort.

Most of their lack comes from the fact they are constantly depressed about their life, but Gortash comes into the fray and suddenly they actually feel like they have a reason to keep on going. Like they don't know what it is about this guy that gives them the energy to keep going but she really likes it.

Like Siliin enjoys their late night talks and meetings and wine nights together. Eventually Siliin realizes that she has fallen for the guy, they don't really mind of course they just keep it to themselves for a while.

Until one day they are talking to someone and she gets asked what she thinks of Gortash and Siliin just gets really excited actually about getting to gush over her favorite person. Gortash overhears and realizes that Siliin might like him a little to much.

They two have a talk and Siliin admits to feelings right off the bat and Gortash accepts these feelings admitting he's been feeling the same and the two agree to start a courtship of sorts or as much of one as they can have.

They are having little dates and late-night walks together and sharing chaste kisses fairly wholesome stuff and then they go back to his home and they have some baller sex. Like full of passion and kisses and just all-around pretty good.

Then fast forward Siliin starts to just not care about the plan anymore and just wants to leave it all behind and run away with Gortash, now this time Siliin does end up telling Gortash the plan and he cant agree to it. They are to far in the plan for this to happen and this sends Siliin into a deeper depression than they already were making them an easy target for Orin.

Now Gortash doesn't visit Siliin like he did Lilith cause he cant bare to face her, cause he fully blames himself for the state Siliin has gotten in.

[gopped]

so… remember when I said I wanted to create the most 2015 out of character most cringe fanfic about durgetash and I had that pole asking if I should actually write it (as well as some actual serious durgetash which I will.) well…. I did it. Any bad use of grammar/ spelling are 100% on purpose, this is not a serious fic aka please don’t think this is how I actually write.

enjoy 984 words of pure torture.

Hey my name is The Dark Urge but everyone calls me Durge for short. I’m really poggers and epic because I was born from the blood of Bhaal, yeah Bhaals my dad, suck on that posers. I have ivory-white scales and eyes the color of blood being splashed on the deepest of rubies. And I’m a storm sorcerer, studying to do magic is for losers! Plus I have this super cool slayer form that literally makes me so badass. As the true spawn of Bhaal you could say I have it all, I have a whole cult at my beck and call, all the different corpses I can eat… but there’s one thing I don’t have yet. There’s this one guy….. The chosen of Bane, we made like this pact thing that says I can’t harm him but it never said I couldn’t fuck him. And by the gods I will. I want him to be my shmoopie snuggluffagus cutie pookie patootie pudding muffin, but my dad is like a total buzz kill so I have to apologize for even thinking about putting a ring on that. Anyways his names Enver Gortash but he prefers for me to call him Enver because we’re close like that and I’m special and all that fun stuff. Plus I’m so much better that the depressed pile of dust and bones we also have to work with, ugh he’s such a boomer.

So here I am walking into Moonrise Towers so we can start discussing our super foolproof evil plans for how to take over the world. My super platform docs stomp against the stone steps to enter the tower, I glare at a few of the various subjects of other cults, idk which ones though, all I know is they’re not as cool as I am. Their probably posers and preps for all I know. But again, I don’t care. I make my grand entrance into the throne like room, doves flying behind me as light shines behind me, I’m just that important to like the world and stuff. I whip off my super cool angular anime sunglasses and I look around the room I see my pookie schmookie goth fantasy man boo-boo bear sugar goober standing off to the side and I see the old decaying grandpa corpse sitting on the big chair at the end of the room. Ugh, he’s the worst, and not even in a fun way, he won’t shut up about how his daughter doesn’t want to talk to him anymore and how he’s literally only here because of her, like how boring can a backstory get? He begins to speak. “Ah how nice of you to finally join us, you’re over an hour late.” He grumbles out, I swear theres like a moth living where his brain should be doesn’t he know that you have to be fashionably late? “Umm yeah.” I say, “that’s the point, what kind of nerd actually shows up on time.” I say rolling my perfect blood red eyes, making sure I show my sharp teeth as I scoff at him for extra effect. “Whatever, let’s just start the meeting already.” The reanimated corpse groans out, bones cracking as he repositions himself in his high chair. I cross my arms over my chest because I’m mysterious and awesome as the guy begins to speak, I don’t pay attention my sister is probably around here somewhere I’ll just ask her for the spark notes version. Gods I want to kill someone. Like I don’t have to, but I’m bored and it’s something I enjoy doing. Then I notice something in the corner of the room, while the old man goes on and on I go and investigate, the something I noticed was a cultist, not one of mine of course, they knew better. Upon further inspection, they don’t even seem to be a cultist, their robes look homemade with no reference to what they’re even supposed to be wearing. And they seem to be snooping around too, ugh it’s probably some Harper spy or something. Well, might as well get my kill count up while I’m here I guess… I approach them and before they could even begin to utter an excuse I shove my dagger in their mouth, dragging it against the roof of their mouth and tongue and pushing it down their throat. I watch with glee as the fear in their eyes gets worse as they start to choke on their own blood. I wiggle my blade, making the gashes in their mouth wider as I do so. I could stop there, but where’s the fun in that? I pull my dagger out to watch them cough and sputter out their own blood, uselessly clawing at their throat. Ugh, what a poser, I bet that even before I did that they wouldn’t be able to name 3 MCR songs.. I shove the spy onto the ground as they look up at me almost pleading with their eyes. Ugh it’s disgusting. So I take my dagger and I begin to hit them, it’s at this point I notice that the boring guy stopped speaking and the room was silent except for the occasional blood gurgle. I pull out the persons intestines and that’s when Gorts and my eyes meet across the room. It’s like so romantic like I swear someone casted like stop time or something… him and his pepsi dark eyes… I tuck some of the blood around my tympanum, gods he’s like so hot. Like the hottest I’ve seen in my 40 years of dreadful existence. Then he walks over to me and my heart goes doki doki he knees beside me on the other side of the now corpse and we start making out. No lips no tongue, all teeth. And then we took control of the netherbrain and got married.

The end.

[morgana-ren]

Honestly, Lore Mom, I am curious about what sort of people Bhaal attracts. Like it seems his worshippers would be pretty limited to either his own spawn or the few people who become addicted to killing. Maybe it's different in a high fantasy setting but my understanding is most murderers don't kill for the fun of it, they do it to achieve an end (like Banites). I'm curious if Bhaal has an issue with maintaining followers. [Also sorry I can't write a short ask to save my life]

Well, people associated with death, for starters.

Assassins, common street killers, ritualized murderers, anybody who might benefit from a patron that encourages such behavior. His ultimate domain is slaughter, blood, and death, so people operating where that is their wheelhouse are far more likely to turn to Bhaal than any other lord. Especially in the situation that there isn't much else regarding an ulterior motive, and it's the pure, undiluted love of the slaughter that drives them.

The kill is the point.

Banites kill because they are chasing a goal. They do the things they do not as the ultimate point of their actions, but to meet those ultimate points. For Bhaalists, the murder is the point, if that makes sense.

You'll obviously get people who aren't 'right' in the head (like Dolor-- which means pain by the way lmao) but you'll also get more cold, calculated killers that have some kind of life that revolves around the cycle of death and ending life itself.

That's why it's referred more to as a cult than an actual religion. Bhaals cultists are tools to meet his ends. It doesn't really revolve around points and end goals like power or dominion or whatever else have you most of the time. It's slaughter. Don't get me wrong, obviously in BG3, there is very much an end goal (which... is the literal death of everyone in the world a la 'the world ending in blood') but again, the death is the point. Blood. Murder. Death. Slaughter. Rinse (or don't) and repeat. He is capable of forming plans, but those plans always revolve around death death death.

Bhaal's chosen is a bit unhinged. Uncontrolled, unhinged murder. Having to fight for control and her need to destroy kill destroy at every fucking turn. Sometimes, they're a bit smarter and more patient (like Sarevok) but again, they're just holding off temporarily to meet their ultimate end, which still revolves death and blood and sacrifice.

The thing about Bhaal is that there are always going to be people who turn to him. People who want to kill for one reason or another. People whose lives revolve around death and blood. People who are just angry and hateful and want to see the world suffer. Weak people hoping for favor from the strong and willing to kill to do it (people too weak to serve a God like Bane of their own initiative or skill.) Every time one dies, a new one is born somewhere, and will inevitably make their way there, same as every other evil God.

I'm sure that his follower count wanes and waxes depending on the times. During more troubled epochs, it might inspire more violence and a sort of comfort in a God who has dominion over violent death. During more peaceful times, you'll get rabblerousers who are always looking to upset the balance.

Truthfully, it really just depends. I'm sure it reaches lows and highs depending, but since you cannot kill an idea, and Bhaal has a form of control over an idea (blood and death) you would have trouble killing it off entirely, and even if you managed, it would create a power vacuum and something else would step in to fill that role-- much like Bhaal himself did.

He is technically a quasi-deity as of right now, same as the others. Thanks to some crazy bullshit that happened, they are all not technically Gods in the same way that they once were, though they are damn sure trying to crawl their way back into it. Still, as you can see, that isn't exactly stopping them.

Bhaal will keep acting like an edgy shithead, and there are always edgy shitheads attracted to that. Not to talk shit on him, I love the idea of him, but he is absolutely the edgiest shithead of the edgy shithead three.

[trappolia]

tell me abt ur characters pls 🙏 and if you have any screenshots from the game pretty pls 🤲

ofc !! tw for the long post ahead …

starting off strong w my durge / the elder sibling of the two! his name is rhys and he’s currently on the evil durge play through … silly evil little man. he’s half-drow elf (oathbreaker) paladin w an oathbreaker background! his hair is actually black, but constantly streaked w red from blood … he’s also greying early ! this is what being a serial killer does to you, guys. also his eyes are brown xoxo but red in the light because Bhaal … also glows when he uses magic.

his backstory is pretty much the same (prodigy of bhaal cut from the god’s undead flesh, blah blah blah) but with the added detail that he was taken in by a widowed baldurian lord whose true love/drow mistress died in childbirth with their unborn bastard child. prior to rhys’s ‘birth’, his lord father struck a deal with scleritas fel to care for the bhaalspawn under the condition that rhys would appear as his deceased child, which is why rhys appears to be half-drow !

however, the lord father was not informed that the child he would be taking in would be the bhaalspawn. rhys in particular was very prone to violent tendencies despite his father letting him do w petty criminals as he pleased, and it terrified his father. as such, he begged scleritas fel to bring him another child. scleritas fel obviously wanted to just do away with the lord, but bhaal decided to humour his pleas and made rhys’s little sister aerea from rhys’s rib and flesh (á la eve from the bible), but we’ll get into her details later! since aerea is literally an extension of himself, rhys does not experience the same bloodlust with her as he does with other people, so their relationship was fairly normal growing up, if not a bit eerie (angel dust + devil’s incarnate sibling dynamics).

they were obviously separated after rhys killed their father and was taken to be raised as a bhaalspawn properly in the temple of bhaal ! pre-tadpole rhys didn’t really care much for checking on his sister (scleritas fel told him that she was in safe hands, and rhys did some less than pleasant things to him to make sure he was telling the truth) and most of his days were dedicated to dealing with the annoyance of another sister (orin the red) and dedicating kills to bhaal. he very much shares orin’s craving for blood and gore, but he’s much more suave and smooth about it … prioritises efficiency and being inconspicuous over tormenting the masses without actually killing everyone who is being tormented.

pre-tadpole rhys was also intimately acquainted with lord enver gortash ! oh, the horrors ketheric thorm had to face when these two were together in the original plot of the absolute … violence and lust mixed together in a rusty pot i think. rhys was obviously very ashamed and disgusted with his relationship with gortash (see: The Letter he wrote to bhaal …) but never enough to actually end things lol. it took orin lobotomising him and putting that tadpole in his head to pry them apart ! scary.

post-tadpole rhys is still very much evil. he constantly feeds into his dark urge thoughts without much remorse — though he’s been known to be lenient on little girls who remind him of a sister he no longer remembers … however! he’s still very much a no-nonsense kind of guy, so orin’s hatred for his character still stands. she thinks he’s a debby-downer, he thinks she’s an immature child who only does these kills for bhaal for the show of it. this is not to say he has no sense of humour though, it’s just very … dark — and his delivery is too deadpan.

in-game he romances ascendant!astarion (they want to kill each other) but !! in my head gortash somehow survives the elder brain and they rule the world together just as they planned to from the very beginning … god i just wanted them to have their happy ending (rhys will still kill gortash one day, but not yet — he can hold off a little longer)

AND NOW MY BABYGIRL! aerea my sweet sweet draconic bloodline sorcerer … she’s a half-drow elf as the extension of rhys BUT! when they were “making” her, the heart of the former wavemistress of the temple of umberlee was also sacrificed to “balance out” the bhaal-side of her ancestry, so the draconic bloodline comes from the wavemistress’ side … u could say bhaal is her father and the deceased wavemistress was her mother ! 50/50 batshit evil and regular sorcerer.

she’s the opposite of rhys as u can see ! pristine white hair vs black hair mottled w grey hairs and blood … blue colour scheme vs red colour scheme … ice vs fire …

in the aftermath of her father’s death + rhys’ disappearance, duke ravengard advocated for aerea’s right to keep her father’s land and titles and became a sponsor of sorts for her! he was the one who had people come in to manage her assets for her while she was still young … aerea also visited the temple of umberlee often due to her connection to the water queen’s house and became somewhat of an honorary member of the clergy there. like her brother, aerea has a noble background, so she spent most of her time growing up alternating between acting as a noble heiress / studying sorcery / making offerings to umberlee; a fairly normal childhood compared to her maniac of a brother.

on the topic of rhys, aerea is aware that he was the one who killed their father ! however, since she is technically a part of him and, by extension, bhaal himself, aerea is a little … twisted. similar to how rhys is blindly loyal to bhaal, aerea has the utmost fate in her brother and what he does — even though he ended up leaving her. it’s not so bad that she’d do anything drastic, but aerea loves her brother to a fault. in my mind’s eye they’re also somehow still connected despite their separation because aerea was literally made out of rhys’ parts, so there’s definitely some twin telepathy going on there.

but while rhys is just fucking off the rails, aerea is fairly normal ! her personality is very much a good samaritan with a little sass … shares the same values as wyll because they were raised together, though she’s considerably more rebellious and outspoken. although she’s slightly unsettling … wyll never forgot the day she made her first human kill without even blinking … it’s the bhaalspawn in her, probably. while rhys would only ever sacrifice himself for his sister (and gortash … in some cases), aerea is very much the type of person to throw herself into danger for a stranger. that’s why she’s collecting so many companions ! crazy … she’s a people magnet (they’re drawn in by her tendency to self-sacrifice, like fuck we can’t leave this bitch alone and unattended). she’s on her way to a good ending though !! we love to see it

aerea also romances gale ! they r such a sweet married couple … my beloveds

[cactusringed]

IM asking you to ramble about bg3 au and autism blast everywhere. and makeout and how sexy and funny you are.

I love you both so much our wedding is coming soon

Anyway OK listen. Listen to me okay Bg3 refers to baldurs gate 3 and for all you need to know it's a dnd video game where the characters get infected with literal brain worms which should have turned them into murderous cultists, but somehow they got spared that fate, and come together to get rid of their brain worms

The party is made of

Grian: a gnome druid whose preferred wild shape is a bird and who might have some hidden aasimar origins because Grian HAS to be God's favorite princess all the time

Scar: an elf ranger who was torn away from his family when he was kidnapped by illithids, and whose closest bro Cub (a warlock who's made a pact with archfaes) was also infected but sadly was turned into a cultist. Scar is desperately looking for him.

Scott: a tiefling bard/sorcerer who does most of the group's talking with npcs both due to his travels making him the more knowledgeable of the group about the region but also because as a bard you can do wild shit like just convince really powerful entities to just kill themselves for fun and that's a very Scott thing to do

Mumbo: a half drow artificer who tbh is the most normal of the group (as far as everyone knows anyway)

Jimmy: half aarakocra (bird :D) vampire cringefail rogue who. Well yeah he's a stand in for astarion me and my friend just wanted a cringefail vampire with negative charisma ok

Joel: A half elf barbarian who has a little secret. The secret is that he's a murderous bastard. But like in the most literal sense of the word

Joel's role specifically has me so mentally ill. Okay. So like. You need a teensy bit of lore for this ok and this will include spoilers for baldy gate 3 if the 2.5 people who read this far intend to play the viddy game well stop reading but still kiss me on the mouth.

So the Lore has many gods and the gods are just real tangible all powerful beings. Much like with Greek mythos, you following a specific god isn't because you only believe in that God, but because you're most devoted to them. Well that's how I see it anyway. And there are three gods associated with death and evil (it's more complicated than that in my hc but we don't have time). One of them is Bhaal. And Bhaal, get this, is the most metal fucking fictional god I've seen because he's the god of MURDER.

Something something he had to give birth to people called Bhaalspawn for some reason who are his direct children and carry a piece of him within them or something (Bg/dnd superfans don't come at me) and it's all part of his grand plan to take over the world. WHATEVER

But Joel IS a bhaalspawn. And he was Bhaal's specialest most favorite bhaalspawn. And now, okay, the thing about bhaalspawns is that they're not actually inherently evil, but they do carry that part of Bhaal within them - his will, and his potential for power. Some Bhaalspawn are raised specifically to be daddy's best little murderers and of course that's how Joel was brought up.

He was examplary because he was trained to be. He was capable of some of the most rancid bloodshed because it was what he was taught, and rewarded for. He was created to be murder incarnate, so any other emotions (love, empathy, etc) were shunned until Joel was either incapable of it, or refused to show it.

Except something happened. He got betrayed, usurped, and infected with the aforementioned brainworms which led to his memory loss. What did remain, even as he escaped the ship keeping him captive, even as he joined up with other infected survivors, was... A primal need. Like it was coded in his DNA, like it was in his blood itself: he had a need to kill. Not just kill, but spread misery, spread pain, and acquire power at any cost. He mostly unleashes those urges onto his enemies, but it never feels like enough. Like a scratch he can't quite itch. Of course, that's all Bhaal trying to reel him back in, Bhaal trying to reclaim him.

But like clockwork - because such ingrained training doesn't go away no matter how much one thinks they forgot - he finds himself relishing in it. In the violence of it all. The only time he feels truly alive is when he's covered in blood and gut.

... That is, until he finds himself growing closer and closer to Jimmy. After a night where Jimmy, desperately trying to hide his very obvious identity as a vampire but also desperately hungry, tries to feed off of Joel, and reveals his secret... Well, Joel had all rights to kill him right then and there. He reasons that there's no fun in killing someone so helpless but in truth there's something a bit charming about Jimmy. He's earnest, and he's just so... Not exactly innocent, but also sort of? He gives Joel to urge to protect him. To hold him so tight and close as to choke him. But in a sweet way. Probably.

Joel won't be able to put it into words for a long while yet, half because he refuses to let himself feel such things because he's so horrifically repressed. He was the only one at camp who didn't even guess Jimmy was a vampire before the big reveal because he's got negative int and wis (his strategy in battle is just hit things hard before they can hit you and honestly it works most of the time) so he'd just never noticed the obvious signs. Anyway. Because his blood is the tastiest and somehow he's one of the companions who acts the least weird about it, which really says a lot, Jimmy ends up mostly feeding off of him. And, well, something about letting your homie regularly suck blood out of your neck is bound to lead to something more. Joel becomes a bit possessive of his little birdie.

When Joel learns that he's Bhaal's special little princess, in truth he's fucking elated, because he spends weeks torturing himself in an attempt to remember who he is, what he's doing, what's wrong with him - and he's finally afforded answers. He leans fully into it. He's so happy to serve his God with bloodshed.

Until he's faced with him. With Bhaal. And after Joel committed countless atrocities (which the rest of their group didn't mind that much as lokgi as they stayed in the clear. They're all bad people) bhaal asks him to shed one last bit of blood before receiving his blessing, before becoming his chosen, he who will enact the murder God's plans. He needs to get rid of his pesky earthly desires and affections. They have no place within murder incarnate. He asks Joel to flat out kill Jimmy or die right here and then.

You'd think Joel would hesitate with how intensely pro-Bhaal he is. You'd think it would be a difficult decision. Jimmy would have thought too. Except that Joel's response is instant and intense. He tells Bhaal to go literally fuck himself, that he'd rather kill every last Bhaalspawn and make sure his bloodline ends with him, rather than lay a finger on Jimmy. Jimmy, whose helped his heavy heart feel so light and free. Jimmy, who makes him feel true warmth. Jimmy, who makes Joel want to appreciate every sunset, every breeze, every breath of fresh air. Jimmy, who treats Joel as so much more than a bloodthirsty beast.

Joel never thought he would want to be anything more than a bloodthirsty beast.

So of course Bhaal kills him because he's literally a god. Right in front of Jimmy. (there's plot and dnd magic that brings him back but it's definitely the culmination of his arc; that Joel, groomed to become murder incarnate, was given an opportunity to find another meaning to his life)

Also they have CRAZY sex

[y-rhywbeth2]

I can't help but feel there's a chunk of lore missing from stuff about the Bhaalists. Most of the other evil gods you can generally work out why these gods are revered; the Gods of Fury are forces of nature (the ocean is terrifying but many are enamoured with it, storms will kill you and yet storm chasing is a thing, etc), Bane represents an idea of order and strength rooted in fear that fuels real world dictatorships, etc etc

Lay worship of Bhaal makes sense - either you're praying to be spared from death or if you're going to be deliberately killing somebody (revenge, self-defence, assassination, etc) you'll pray for success/give a fucked up form of grace.

And it's not necessarily so strange that they happily call themselves evil - Realms morality is not supposed to operate like the real world, evil is a recognised cosmological force and it's accepted as being holy, whether the average person likes it or not these gods are viewed as necessary parts of the universe; they won't blaspheme against it.

But Deathbringers aren't just in this for serial killing: "every murder committed strengthened holy Bhaal", their kills are "a pastime", but they are also "a duty". Death is holy, murder is holy, Bhaal being stronger is a desirable thing, and you love and revere your Lord of Murder for more than the power and wealth his domain brings you: there is a purpose here but what the fuck is it? You want Death Itself to be a revered and powerful presence in people's lives that they should be beholden to, but why? What's the reasoning?

The plot we're given makes little sense (conquering the world for Bhaal and creating a society in his image, sure. But Bhaal is notably very, very resistant to dying - killing the world will kill him, he's not going to do that), I do like this fucked up "the material world is a prison, everything should perish and be freed of it" philosophy for them (although it's also a touch too Sharran), but the actual apocalypse plan doesn't work out. I can also see how we ended up with it because how the hell do you fill these blanks if your "justification" isn't euthanising the world?

Bhaalists usually target criminals, so there could be a vigilante element to the faith, but Bhaal doesn't actually care who gets murdered and there's nothing about that in the doctrine - and that's Hoar's deal as god of vengeance anyway (although he and Bhaal are allies).

Bhaalist doctrine appeals to the natural world - all creatures destroy life on a daily basis, it's a necessary part of the turning of the world (although we're getting a little too close to Malar, god of predation here). There could be something about some kind of duty to a balancing act between the kingdoms of the dead (Myrkul) and the living (Bane) to keep either from becoming too powerful, although that's never come up. (That one actually has in-world scriptures with the Dead Three receiving their portfolios and announcing their plans, so for lack of a sensible answer I think I'll lean on that one for my personal Realms.)

Hmmmm.

(This is what happens when you split your death gods up: we could've just had a god of death and a god of the dead in one being and we wouldn't have this issue, Jergal.)

[crossdressingdeath]

Lord Enver Gortash: You and I initiated this plot. We discussed in depth the failures of our predecessors and how to avoid them. Lord Enver Gortash: We understood that if we were to unite, no one could stand in the way of the Dead Three. Lord Enver Gortash: So unite we did. First we obtained the crown; then we enslaved the brain. From there, it was but a small step to the most successful religious hoax ever perpetrated. Kyvir: What was my role in this plan? Lord Enver Gortash: In Bhaal's name, you set your bloody daggers to cause panic in the streets, killing in the Absolute's name. Lord Enver Gortash: You would have carried out that part of the plan, at least, had Orin not ruined your hard work. Lord Enver Gortash: Next, the threat of the Absolute's monstrous armies formed by Myrkul's general, Ketheric Thorm. Lord Enver Gortash: In such circumstances, people crave strong leaders. Leaders that bring law, order, and protection. Leaders like me, Bane's unyielding hand, author of justice. Lord Enver Gortash: You are soon to witness the people of Baldur's Gate granting me complete power over them. All out of fear of the Absolute. Lord Enver Gortash: The faithful will do anything in the name of their god.

Once again: we are having this conversation in front of all the most powerful nobles in Baldur's Gate. Gortash, I really think this discussion should be had in your office? Later? Maybe over tea? Not in front of everyone who's anyone in the city? Maybe don't blurt out the whole plan right here and now? I'm sure this'll be fine. I would've liked it if he'd put literally any thought into keeping his Top Secret Evil Villain Plan a secret, but I'll just work on the assumption he was so excited to tell Durge all about how clever the two of them were he couldn't wait.

That aside! I honestly didn't expect Durge to have been one of the architects of the whole plan. I knew they were Gortash's favourite assassin and held a position of sufficient respect and authority that they were free to do whatever they wanted around Moonrise, but I didn't think they were seriously involved in the planning phase; I figured that Gortash kind of just... pointed them at people as his assassin. Also, very curious how the two of them started working together. I figured Gortash planned the whole thing out and then went to ally with them once he realized he'd need them, but if they were part of the whole thing from the start that clearly isn't what happened. Did Bhaal and Bane point them at each other to get things started, did they just happen to run into each other for reasons other than divine intervention, did one of them learn of the other's presence in the city and seek them out? I have questions about this partnership! Also about General Ketheric "Third Wheel" Thorm; it seems like he wasn't there at the start, but no word as of yet on when exactly they brought him into the group.

I also love the Chosen of Bane talking to the former Chosen of Bhaal, his former partner in this little scheme to take over the world in the name of the Dead Three, about how the faithful will do anything in the name of their god. Especially with the irony of Gortash not knowing about what Durge's original plan actually was. Like... yeah, if anyone knows how far someone will go for their god it's these two!

[tacogoats]

I keep thinking about this.

so I need to test this on another char to see what happens too as I am in the middle of doing another redeemed Durge run, but I find it super fun (but wait there's more) how my pro-bhaal durge got a different narrator bit in the Orin confrontation, But my redeemed/rejecting bhaal one got a much longer one. the video looks like it was cut fast because I noticed it was different IMMEDIATELY. more under cut. rambling.

This is where I start ranting despite being happy it was different.

Like, having done my redeemed durge run first it's kind of insane doing the evil-er route and seeing just how much the game lacks in content for an evil run. I've seen ye olde 'but Larian said evil players would get rewarded materially!' and oh my god that is a fuckin' lie. You get way more goodies for doing quests with surviving NPCs most of the time lmao. I apparently will not get an epilogue with this dark urge in the above video because I plan to do the evil ending as well. I get why, but it still sucks the evil runs are basically given nothing.

Coming from SWTOR (Star Wars: The Old Republic) it kinda drives me nuts with how some games tackle morality systems - SWTOR also fell victim to the same thing sometimes, but overall I liked seeing what the writing team noted as 'evil' and 'good'. Even when it was just plain weird and frustrating it was fun to pick at.

My most favourite examples are the Black Talon flashpoint.(flashpoints are basically dungeons - so instanced areas that you play with others. Black Talon is also the first flashpoint for Imperial players.)

The jist of Black Talon is that you are on a ship (named the Black Talon lol) that is a transport ship, but you are called upon by the Grand Moff (basically big naval military leader) to board a Republic ship and capture a defector who is going to spill lots of beans. The Moff basically doesn't leave you the option to refuse, and the crew doesn't like this at all. You fight your way to the bridge and can commandeer the ship by a) killing the captain who disobeyed the Moff's order or b) basically telling the crew and captain to listen Or Else

This is obviously a dark/light option but it's not the one I'm about to pick at. The one I want to pick at is after you've basically ripped your way through soldiers boarding the Black Talon, AND boarding the enemy ship yourself, you find the defector.

He is a high-level military leader (simply named 'The General' by the Moff. The name is apt as he tells you he was a general once) who defected because he's 'seen too much' and realized both sides in this war were going to destroy each other. He gives you a lot of cryptic words about and even adds if you'd seen what he's seen you'd understand. He thought that he would perhaps be able to cause a stalemate, but it's too late, actually. He is also actively dying.

He tells you he won't get to an escape pod in time with his stomach bleeding out, so what will you do with him and his cybernetic implant full of secrets? (This is important for later!)

You have two choices.

a) Take him into custody. Where, he remarks, 'I'll be tortured and executed" and if he's lucky, he may instead live the rest of his life in a cell.

b) you can kill him.

Guess which side is the Dark, and which is the Light?

There are options that happen sometimes where you are performing a mercy-kill, they're rare, but they happen. This is not one of them lol.

I would really argue that taking him prisoner is the much worse option here. The more you play of the game, the more you learn that handing him off to Imperial Intelligence (which is basically secret service of the Empire) is the worst possible thing you can do to someone. You learn this especially quickly if you play as an Imperial Agent, one of the four starter classes SWTOR's Imperial faction offers.

If you know anything about Star Wars - even if you just know the movies - you know the Empire is pretty brutal, but honestly it's a whole different degree of insane when you go to Old Republic era because you get all that additional context *playing* as someone part of it. You see what your own Dark vs Light decisions are and what tools are available to Imperial Intelligence.

Remember I said the cybernetics was important for later? In the Agent storyline you come across a young man who has cybernetics, and you have the option to basically crack them open and grab what you need directly from his brain. This is after you bring him near to death and he very briefly begs you not to; but... someone else who just wants the job done - a man who used to work with Intelligence and was subsequently discarded by them - just wants you to do it because it's quicker and he can do the hard work, anyway. He will actually say that it's lucky they found a cyborg.

Dark options are often 'do bad thing, get reward faster' in SWTOR. Sometimes they'll make your job harder because you did a stupid thing, but usually it's the former.

Anyway, it's absolutely horrifying how you can literally just jam a USB into this guy's *brain* and basically grab what you need - all the while the victim is in excruciating pain - and it does so much damage you basically turn his brain into mush. Again, you can leave him like this or mercy kill him. I have to go back and look because I don't remember what was Light or Dark in this. IIRC, your companion is very unsettled by it. (Kaliyo, the companion, is a violent anarchist and is very 'Dark' leaning but IIRC this upsets her.)

So knowing this; and knowing the General has cybernetics... The Light option being to spare him sounds bizarre, doesn't it? The Moff actually gets very annoyed at you when you simply kill him, but overlooks it because at least the military secrets aren't in enemy hands, and he's in a good mood so why not.

SWTOR often has the ye olde "Save someone's life so it's the good option" but rarely takes into account the morality issue of prolonging their death - which is interesting, because obviously there's the whole question of someone *asking* to die or not, which is probably part of it honestly.

Situation two also has to do with cybernetics and is a bit juicier.

Once again in the Imperial side of things: you are tasked with storming a rogue Sith's compound to find a missing unit of soldiers on the capital world of Dromund Kaas. The sergeant pleads with you to find them, and she adds she's quite close to 'her boys'. She wants them home safe.

You do not find them in any thing resembling being able to come home 'safe'.

Grathan, the rogue Sith, was conducting experiments on them. Specifically, stuffing their brains into cyborgs - and he had succeeded. I have a video of this I myself recorded (11 years ago, wow):

You find the last of the unit, somewhat alive. He has also been shoved inside a machine and remarks he can see his corpse across the table. He explains to you that despite having no will of their own anymore (which he stammers out between fighting the programming trying to squash whatever is left of his free will), they are all very much *awake* and aware; so you are given two options as always. Light: Kill them. Dark: Have them be taken by the Empire and used as soldiers anyway.

So this is a mercy kill for obvious reasons - and the remaining soldier *asked* you to put an end to them. The sergeant later will be upset but thanks you for not letting them suffer if you do this. If you do the dark option, she is also upset but for different reasons and remarks she will have to contact the families.

So these are just two options in a massive, MASSIVE game but I find it interesting that BG3 kinda follows the same idea of 'do bad, get quicker reward' but the reward is. just. moving to the end of the game faster. I really can't think of many instances where the 'Bad' option nets you a better reward than the good option either, except like... Getting the +2 STR potion for making Astarion bite Araj, or letting Ethel live if you choose to confront her. Or the Slayer form, I guess. Which isn't that great depending what class you are anyway...? (I definitely don't need it on a cleric lol)

Also let's look at Minthara for a second. You are trading Halsin for her, and if you continue doing Evil route options - you also lose Jaheira and Minsc. It's weird. BG3 makes me feel like I'm having a shorter, less content filled run by playing evil - and while SWTOR's morality is mostly on par, it never made me feel like I was missing out on content by doing the evil run stuff.

Part of that is probably due to it being a MMO but man.

I've been hammering this out at work so I may add more to it later but I am really itching for games to tackle morality systems with more branching options than this. KOTOR 2 did some fun things with turning your allies to the Dark side but it was still very 'I kick puppies' levels of evil choices.

If you have suggestions please leave any :)

[vaultsixtynine]

obvs my full timeline isn't done yet but the orin vibe is like. ana IS an impostor. and the feeling that orin has for her originates from hatred, but the context is entirely different from as-written durge

i'm gonna cut for big ol durge spoilers

orin as written is jealous, feeling she deserves more. she seeks to displace someone more powerful and more favored than her, to prove her worth, etc. it's a little-sister-on-a-power-trip, and while that's fun and puts the player in the position of realizing they really did suck that bad to be Top Bitch over her, i both a) want more for orin and b) need more control over anathema's origins

orin with anathema is still antagonistic but it's like - she is the pure-blooded grand/daughter of sarevok. she is an eminently skilled shapeshifter. she killed her mother and then (in my lil timeline here) the 'canon' bg/2 protag (whatever the hell his name is, though i might eventually play those games For Real rather than half-remembered watching-my-mom-play bits) for bhaal's favor and the right to lead this cult to glorious slaughter and she has been doing that for years - careful planning, for a beautiful outcome.

this orin is more methodical, more patient. she still has her moments of cackling blood-soaked glee, but i want her to be SCARY and not just unstable - she knows good art takes Time and avoiding too heavy of an eye on her group is critical. she feels, in every sense, that she both is entitled to and has also earned everything she has, and threats to her status/position will be disemboweled posthaste. to that end, i think i enjoy her being a full dread three planner way more than a revan-esque "YOU were the EVIL MASTERMIND" reveal.

enter stage left: a shambling puppet, filled with a stolen gift. she Knew something was wrong about anathema as soon as she entered the stage, and even as she saw doubt enter her sect at the arrival of another claimant to the throne, she believed her father would never favor a liar and a thief over Her. she, who has done so much for Him, in His name. when bhaal turns his eye to anathema and doesn't immediately unravel her at the seams - even tells orin that she's Actual Competition - she's seeing red, literally.

ana - even in her fucked-up state - gives her a run for her money. don't really have what the underlying goal was for this whole gambit (i'll get there ok ok - the durgening might also Not Even Happen in a fashion that there IS a 'before'-time. i have yet to decide)

regardless of When the durgening happens, orin's energies with ana upon re-meeting are a) intense b) violently taunting rather than jealous overcompensation c) knowing that ana is an Outsider, not an equal - she is prey, no matter what she's stolen. does she deserve a duel? maybe if you're good, pet. maybe if you're good.

i also think orin toys less with hostages (that's a gortash tactic - see the iron throne, yetcetera) and more with the looming and HIGHLY legitimate threat of violence and sowing distrust to shape ana's behaviors. they're playing a little mind game and ana IS susceptible, because ketheric's dead and gortash can be reasoned with (as a man who wants to maintain dominance and power, he still ultimately needs People and Things to dominate), but orin is sheer unadulterated joy in the rending of living flesh. slaughter is the journey And the destination. you can't really reason with someone like that, and ana Knows it. so when orin starts coyly bringing Other Party Members And Associated Friends into the conversation as viable alternatives for bloodshed since ana won't do what she Fucking Wants, ana IS paying attention.

what does orin want? to kill anathema, most certainly. but more directly: to reclaim what she has 'stolen', of her own volition or not. to drain and consume her.

so orin fucks with her more Directly, but always a little cheekily, flirtatiously. don't you wish you could kill me? you won't kill any of these sad little scenarios i keep giving you, but i know the lying transfusion in your veins wants to rip me limb from limb. i know you wake up almost every night with blood in your mouth because your weak mind roils against MY father's sacred visions. your blood - even stolen as it is - sings for mine because it knows it Belongs to me. it should be one with mine. you should be one with me. wouldn't you like that? you'll walk into my jaws willingly, Soon. when there is nothing left but me. when your blood leaves you no other option than to return Home.

[loud buzzer sounds as ana's 'fucked up psychosexual things to have with antagonist or antagonist-adjacent npcs' counter goes up by one]