#and i like that ship but i refuse to talk to the shippers if they want to be like that

[epickiya722]

Some shippers that be hating on BkDk be the same people who be like "why they hate us so much? why am I blocked? why isn't my ship being appreciated with fics and art? why do they think we're toxic?"

Because you're the same people who use the ship tag to antagonize people. People wouldn't want to associate themselves with you because you're being an asshole. You're wasting your time posting hate instead of creating those fics and art you want.

[god-damnit-vinne]

the sheer amount of i've-got-bitches-itis shuichi has during drv3 extras is actually making my head spin like

okay you teal haired twink

[nyxi-pixie]

tbh i do think a lot of skk enjoyers have takes about as interesting as toilet water and about as accurate as taking a paragraph and translating it back and forth between every language on google translate and then asking a ouija board to tell you what the newly spouted nonsensical bs means, but some people talk abt this like theyre a unique plague on the bsd fandom as a whole when literally 80% of this fandom has stupid takes and forgets the source material. its just cos skk shippers make up the vast majority of the fandom that ur gonna see the verbal equivalent of raw sewage coming from them most

[jebiknights]

I'm not saying not to ship Codywan because, like, I'm obviously a rexwalker shipper, but acting like Codywan would be some healthy, well balanced relationship in CANON, esp in comparison to anidala is just... Absolutely wild. In fandom it's all well and good to ignore the wonky power dynamics and age difference between the ship because it's yaknow fanon (tho personally I think it takes all the fun out of the ship but that's a different post), but when y'all start talking about how Codywan would've been in canon that's where I have to stop you. Because Cody is in his early 20s maturity wise (hes literally Anakin's age when the war starts) and Obi-Wan's direct SUBORDINATE. Like, y'all have GOT to stop ignoring the fact that there is an age difference and a HUGE power imbalance there, especially with how much parts of fandom yell about age difference ships.

[ink-the-shitposter]

I think it might have to do with the guy playing dean being uncomfortable with them making their characters gay, which is rly funny bro you are an actor 😭

still amazes me that by season 45 or whatever, Supernatural was being exclusively watched by delusionally hopeful women with flamingo-salinity tolerance for bad writing and the creators still couldn’t pander to them because maybe there was 1 straight guy out there still accidentally watching it

[monimccoythings]

How the other X-Men (97') would react to Logan's crush

I need more X-Men 97's Logan. Mostly Pre-established relationship. Just some rambles about some of the other X-men reacting to your mutual crushes because they are all a big family of busybodies lol.

tag: gender neutral reader (mostly)

You didn't have the best first meeting. You had accidentally drank the last of Logan's beers, and the burning anger in his eyes would take time to forget. You had felt so guilty afterwards that the next day he found a crate of imported beer in his bedroom.

When he first started developing a crush on you, Morph liked to tease him changing into you in different forms of suggestive positions wearing all kind of revealing lingerie, which made him blush. Hard. He tried to act all though pulling his claws out threateningly, but it was difficult to take him seriously when he was as red as a tomato.

He wasn't sure what started that crush, he guessed he started developing it without noticing. Maybe it was your good looks, your kind nature, your bright smile; who knew, but something about you drove him to you like a moth to a flame.

Ar first, Logan would be a bit conflicted due to his deeply rooted feelings for Jean. He felt like he was betraying her in some way, despite Jean being married to Scott. Unbeknowst to him, Jean, is one of the main supporters of his relationship with you and is always hijacking with Storm some way for you two to be together. Once, she got tired of your antics and practically psychically shoved you against him.

Storm is the chillest about it, unlike the overly enthusiastic Jean. She is very patient, she knows you'll end up together one way or another. She just has to wait. She still joins Jeans shenanigans because it's really fun.

Scott is more protective of you in a big brother way. He initially doesn't like that Logan has taken an interest in someone he had always seen as a little sibling. He knows how Logan can get, and how much he had pinned after Jean. He doesn't want him to hurt you, it would take a real genuine proof of his love for you to convince him. And something small wouldn't do, it has to be this big grand selfless gesture for him to actually believe it.

Charles, unlike Scott, thinks that you and Logan are a great match. You seem to bring the best out of each other. You calm Logan's never ending rage and Logan encourages you to be more bold and come out of your shell. You are like two puzzle pieces, you fit perfectly together.

Rogue is constantly teasing you about Logan. She has noticed how he gets more awkward when you're around, how he doesn't snark at you as much as he usually does to the others. If she didn't know better, she'd say he was being shy.

Remy is the one usually trying to give Logan advice on how to properly woo you, which usually goes ignored because of Logan's own pride and refusal to admit he has it deep for you.

Jubilee is a die-hard shipper. She gave you the most ridiculous ship name. Logan hates it. She, Storm, Remy, Rogue and Jean, usually meet up to discuss about you two like a bunch of teens. This is literally them on each meeting:

When you finally stop dancing around each other and start dating, he finds he's unable to keep his hands to himself. Watching you make breakfast, humming to yourself in an oversized T-Shirt and booty shorts that perfectly clinged to every delicious curve of your juicy ass like a second skin, put all of Logan's already thin self-control to test. Missions surveys get really awkward if he's seated next to you, his hand always finds its way to your thigh. Hank joked that he should give him 'the talk', which he took it as well as expected.

Roberto is the one who thinks 'what the hell do they see in him??'. He doesn't get how someone as cultured and kind as yourself would ever get interested in a caveman like Logan. But he keeps his thoughts to himself because he'd rather keep his head on his shoulders.

Logan may not know what started his crush, but he sure as hell knows when he realised he loved you. It wasn't a great sacrifice or something epic as anybody would expect. He just saw you doing the most mundane thing in the world, be it painting your nails, taking care of the garden, or getting to the best part of a book you've been reading. The second he saw that glint in your eyes and that joyful expression, he just knew.

[trexiejan]

Some Toxic Dickbabs moments that happened in canon. (LONG POST)

so i saw a dickbabs shipper talking crap about dickkory saying they're the most toxic nightwing ship? and they also claim dickbabs is the most healthiest ? it's ironic considering I've seen many dickbabs comic panels where dickbabs is being toxic towards each other plenty of times in the canon comics. Looks like Tom Taylor wants to brainwash people and make them believe that Dickbabs is such a perfect healthy loving couple since day 1, when that hasn't been true at all before he was put in charge of the nightwing comics to write dickbabs wattpad fanfiction in the book every single issue, this ship has done nothing but damage both characters even in tom taylor's run Dick is turned into a happy go lucky himbo who is incapable of accomplishing anything on his own without being monitored and babysat by barbara 24/7.

Anyways let's proceed with dickbabs history of being a toxic couple.

Remember those times where Barbara physically and verbally assaulted him when he was only trying to be nice and polite. She yelled at him, called him stupid, a crybaby and beat him up.

Also they keep calling Kory a victim blamer for something that happened once in over 30 years ago but ignore the fact that Babs has victim blamed him and slutshamed him multiple times in the modern comics when he was sexually assaulted and raped by Tarantula and when he got shot in the head by the Joker.

Dick just got raped by Tarantula and was traumatized by what happened but instead of comforting Dick, she has the nerve to mockingly say Dick likes his rapist. her jealousy always clouds her judgement.

I'm sorry But Barbara is canonically a victim blamer and a slutshamer. Don't forget how she also insults and slutshames other women like Helena when she gets jealous of the other women in Dick's life. She called dickhelena a cheap one nightstand even though Dick clearly told Helena he doesn't do casual sex and and she mocked Kory and refused to help her on a mission when her people were dying.

so yeah let's get back to her history with victim blaming Dick. She victim blamed him again after he got shot in the head and had an amnesia and when his memories was restored, she lashed out at him for forgetting about her when he had an amnesia.

And remember that time when Bludhaven was burned down and Dick lost his apartment, he came to Barbara to ask if he can stay at her place but she kicked him out of her apartment the next day. She's totally fine with him being homeless but dickbabs shippers claim babs has always been very loving and supportive towards him while calling Kory a slut.

Even in elseworld stuff she treats him like garbage. Aside from cheating on Dick with Batman and getting pregnant with Batman's baby in the BTAS universe, she's also very emotionally abusive to him in comics where dickbabs shippers brag about them having a kid in it like in whiteknight.

Barbara was always out there acting like a toxic judgemental domineering bitch in the modern canon comics, Barbara behaved like this consistently for more than 30 years but Kory is the one we should crucify over something that she did only once from 30 years ago 🙄 Did they crucify Barbara too when she was ableist to Cass and called her stupid because she can't read.

And they call Kory a sexual assaulter? Because she kissed him when they first met. Did they forgot that Kory was an alien, she was clueless about Earth laws when she first came to earth, she didn't know that you're actually not supposed to kiss someone without their consent, she had no clue that it was considered inappropriate and she kissed him not to sexually assault him but for her to learn english. Her people can learn other languages through kissing and Kory didn't learn anything about Human law until she officially joined the teen titans, so you can actually excuse her for her behavior what's not excusable is Barbara who is a human being who studied law for years, but still has the nerve to commit a sexual crime. As always, She violated Dick's personal privacy, she put a spy camera on his apartment so she can enjoy watching him naked without his consent. Look it up on google the crime is called voyeurism. Barbara would be considered a creepy criminal by human law. I'm not surprised considering I always think of her as a type of gf who has no respect for her partner's personal space especially when she's Oracle, She never respected Dick's privacy even in tom taylor's run, she keeps monitoring his every move in her computer, she always invades his personal space. Dick is trapped in this relationship. It's not a good relationship if you constantly watch your partner's every move and if you keep following your partner around like a dog wherever he goes.

Many people think Dickbabs is such a healthy couple because of Tom Taylor's run. I think for someone who is a huge dickbabs shipper like tom taylor it's expected he's gonna try to convince people to believe that to sell his favorite ship but in reality even in Tom Taylor's run Dickbabs relationship is pretty toxic and forced. It's toxic when your partner doesn't respect your privacy, when your partner constantly stalks and keeps an eye on you on every single thing that you do, when you wanna talk to other people but she's there lurking in her computer listening to your conversations with other people, when she puts a camera on your mask so she can always see what you see and hear what you hear, as if you're not a real human being who needs your own privacy, and constantly follows you around like a dog, like Barbara does to him every single issue. It really is a sign of an abusive relationship when there is no respect. How is Tom Taylor's Nightwing good when the book keeps destroying Dick's independece by having Barbara stuck to him like a leech 24/7 . The book is called Nightwing but Tom Taylor turned it into a Nightwing and Batgirl fanfiction series where 90% of the time Dick hasn't done anything on his own and where his IQ is chopped off in half to prop up Barbara as the smarter woman in their relationship. Dick can't even handle his own missions without constantly being babysat by Barbara in her computer like a sidekick who needs to be watched 24/7.

Poor Dick he became Nightwing to stop being Batman's sidekick and be independent only for Barbara to take away his independence and treat him like a sidekick again. Dickbabs has always been a toxic ship in any kind of form.

and don't forget Tom Taylor himself is a toxic misogynist slutshamer. He keeps throwing shade on Kory on twitter by liking comments that slutshame her on twitter

You know what would be the best way to fix dickbabs? is by letting them move on from each other! Let them grow tf up and move forward in life outside this relationship.

Babs is an anchor that brings him down whenever she's too involved in his life and same with Babs because do dickbabs shippers even care about Barbara. I haven't seen any barbara fan complain about barbara not doing anything on her own other than chasing dick around like a dog in his comicbook every single issue.

[angellwingss]

Wasn’t going to go on a big rant but you know what since that other post is gaining traction yeah I think I will. So big long rant under the cut. Lolll

I feel like. A lot of people might tell me ‘it’s not that deep’ but to me it is that deep.

I don’t have a problem with JayVik or it’s shippers like. At all. I just think some of them are à really good demonstration of like. Every bad thing when it comes to fandom ever LMAO.

Once again I am (supposed to be) writing a whole big long essay about this already so I will try and keep this kind of short and sweet and it might be a bit lacking but wtvr.

I think a lot of JayVik fans tend to be white queer people. Someone left a tag on my OG post that said basically ‘my take is I’m a faggot and I don’t have to care about a character if I don’t want to’ and no hate to that person cuz you’re right, but this is exactly the kind of stuff that made me make that first post.

I feel like a lot of white queer people have an issue with seeing outside their own identity? If that makes sense? This is seen time and time again with the way some of them behave when big movements happen online, some have a tendency to centre themselves and whatnot so i think it’s kind of the same thing.

It makes total sense that a queer person would prefer queer ships and would prefer JayVik over MelJay, that is not a crime. But I do think part of that is because they can’t relate/identify with Mel or see themselves in her like they can with Jayce or Viktor.

I hate to also make it about feminism but i think a lot of you guys are super like. Male centred, like just in your attraction which once again, not the issue not a crime. But i think it’s also why CaitVi, which is a canon queer ship, although popular is still not quite as popular as JayVik despite being canon. Women fetishizing gay men in fandom is not something new, which I think might play a small part in it- I’ve seen a lot of people especially back in s1 infantilizing Viktor and acting like he had no agency or independence and that he NEEDS Jayce to take care of him (that’s another thing. Ableism(looks at you with my eyes)) and they also do the same thing with Jayce where they act like he had 0 agency with any decisions he makes and that he’s like a big dumb baby who doesn’t know anything politics. Hey, guys. That’s a grown man.

My main issue isn’t that people prefer JayVik over MelJay it’s just that some shippers demonize Mel to an insane degree, blame her for getting in the way of their ship (this is also happening right now with Maddie- there’s a leak going around saying that she gets with Caitlyn and people are so upset that this character is getting some INSANE hate and I feel like that’s the same thing going on.)

they blame her for ‘stealing’ Jayce etc etc like. Idk. You don’t have to ship MelJay but I wish more people would appreciate Mel just as a character- imo she is super interesting and has a great story but she’s only ever seen and ‘the other woman’. I’ve seen people say she isn’t like, well characterized and that her story entirely revolves around Jayce which. Yeah she’s definitely heavily involved with him in s1 but she’s clearly got a lot more going on than just that and you would know that if you GAF 🗣️🗣️

for just being. Who she is. I think Mel deserves more attention just in the fandom and it’s just frustrating. People making memes about Jayce going insane over Viktor leaving but like. Mel also just got fucking kidnapped guys. His lover has just vanished without a trace why is nobody also talking about that !!!! Why can’t he care about both these people at the same time !!!!!!!

Anyway I’m not nearly well equipped enough to talk more in-depth about like. Any of this but I do think the demonization of Mel and refusal to see her relationship with Jayce as it is can often times be boiled down to racism like straight up. And also things like the fetishization of gay men in fandom and just things like that are sometimes what can lead to female characters- even the well written ones to be shelved and pushed aside in favour of their male counterparts.

Obligatory ‘not all JayVik fans’ obviously a lot of you are awesome, shouldn’t have to say this. If I’m not aiming for you, you shouldn’t be getting shot.

[faelynfawn]

I did not see Joel and Second Joel before I voted for Rendoc 😭

i think we all know where the server is (hopefully) going at this point, the only question that remains is

[fallenrocket]

Some Random Galinda/Elphaba/Fiyero Thoughts

Note: This is mostly based on the musical, looking at the movie in particular--while I love the book, Fiyero is so different between the two versions that he needs to be viewed as two separate characters. Also, my shipping thoughts go hand in hand with my neurodivergent headcanons. For the purposes of this post, we have Elphaba (autistic,) Galinda (high-masking autistic/ADHD,) and Fiyero (ADHD.)

For as long as there have been love triangles and shipper wars, there have been fans who've pointed out the obvious solution of "So-and-So has two hands!" I've certainly seen the appeal of various OT3 ships in the past, but after watching Wicked: Part 1, I'm not sure if I've ever seen a love triangle as much in need of an OT3 resolution as Galinda/Elphaba/Fiyero.

Any way you look at it, it's clear that Elphaba is the apex of this triangle/polycule, so let's start there. The Elphaba/Galinda and Elphaba/Fiyero ships are both rock solid. Both have certain similarities, the popular hottie paired with the gorgeous outcast whose beauty can only be seen by them. But the road to how they get there in each case is a little different, so we'll take them one at a time.

Elphaba/Galinda

We have to talk about them first, obviously. That's why we're all here, right? The relationship so iconic, you can build a whole marketing campaign purely off the colors green and pink. These two have a classic love/hate setup, the old I Hate My Roommate, Oh No I Love Them! routine. But with both characters, it goes so deep. Being seen as a good person is crucial to Galinda's sense of self, and from the moment she meets Elphaba, who sees through her self-aggrandizing vow to use her not-yet-developed sorcery skills to "help" her, that sense of self is challenged. The image Galinda presents to the world is so carefully controlled and precise--her popularity is thanks in part to the fact that she's constantly performing "personhood" for those around her. But Elphaba immediately sees through her performance, calling her out in front of everybody.

That, I think, is at the heart of their early conflicts. It's not just that Galinda is pretty and popular and Elphaba is green and weird. It's that Elphaba has no issue pointing out that Galinda isn't what she pretends to be, and that rattles her. At the same time, it probably burns her up that Elphaba refuses to give in to what other people think about her, at least giving the impression that she doesn't care about their opinions. That isn't true, of course, as Galinda rightly recognizes at the Ozdust Ballroom.

When Galinda steps forward to dance with Elphaba, it's a revolutionary moment for her character. It's an unspoken acknowledgment that she had been cruel in giving Elphaba the hat, willingly admitting that she's not as "good" as she likes to think she is. But at the same time, this dance is the first truly kind thing Galinda does in the story. Like Elphaba, she hasn't stopped caring what people think about her, but for the first time, doing something right means more to her than just giving the appearance of it. So she stands with Elphaba among the stares and whispers, following her lead and doing her dance regardless of how it looks.

"Popular" is more than just a recompense, a genuine way to try and help Elphaba after tricking her earlier with the hat. Even as Galinda tries to make Elphaba more like her--ultimately giving up when she realizes how lovely Elphaba already is as herself--this is Galinda at her most unmasked, which actually makes her a little more like Elphaba. She is extra as hell throughout this whole song, delightfully goofy and hyper and excited. It's in stark contrast with Elphaba, who doesn't know what to think here, but this is who Galinda is when she's not performing for everyone around her. Elphaba is always 100% herself and never lets anyone take that away from her, and in "Popular," Galinda lets Elphaba see her.

When the break happens between them in "Defying Gravity," it has nothing to do with how they feel about each other. Their angry/frustrated accusations of "I hope you're happy" give way to their sad/wistful farewells of "I hope you're happy." Their essential breakdown is about, not who they are but how they are. Elphaba doesn't know how to go along to get along, even for the sake of playing a long game, so she immediately blows everything up with the Wizard and Madame Morrible because she knows how wrong this all is. She shows her hand without a second thought and is instantly prepared to throw everything else away for her ideals. Galinda, meanwhile, has spent her life being who other people expect her to be, and she doesn't really know how to give all that up--including her dreams of becoming a sorcerer and her chance for real power and influence--to take what feels like a shortsighted stand. Elphaba has no plan beyond "I won't do this" and "We have to get out," and as much as Galinda loves her, she's not ready or able to take that leap. They're both caught on diverging paths, reaching out for each other even as they're being pulled apart. Gaaaaah!!!

Elphaba/Fiyero

Even though Elphaba/Fiyero plays with similar archetypes and some similar themes as Elphaba/Galinda, their interactions and relationship are different, which is valuable. This isn't just a case where the canon M/F ship gets to "go there" while copying the F/F ship Because Compulsive Heterosexuality. I will say, the movie in particular gives me lots of Fiyero feels that I don't necessarily have with the stage show, so my thoughts on both Elphaba/Fiyero and Galinda/Fiyero rely heavily on Jonathan Bailey's interpretation of the character. In this version of the story, Fiyero does feel important to me, not just a shoehorned-in love interest for the sake of it.

Like Galinda, Fiyero is a character who masks/performs a lot. A key difference between them, I think, is that Fiyero has much more self-awareness about his. He knows what he's doing when he plays the role of the shallow party prince, essentially "giving the people what they want." But as hard as Galinda works to maintain the image she projects, I'm not sure if she entirely realizes that it isn't the real her. Both characters are trapped behind the masks they've made, but Fiyero definitely knows it, and I'm not sure if Galinda does.

At any rate, that's what we're working with when Fiyero meets Elphaba. In this instance, he clocks her before she clocks him--Fiyero easily defies her expectations when she rattles through her standard "no, I'm not seasick" list, and he immediately treats her like a person, something that not many people in her life do.

Elphaba quite can't see that at first, though. I don't know if she initially buys the performance Fiyero sells everyone else, but she's pointedly unimpressed by it. While everybody else is tripping over themselves falling for his charms in "Dancing Through Life," Elphaba huffs and rolls her eyes, even when Fiyero specifically meets her gaze in the middle of the number and gives her a little "hey, I know you!" wave.

So even though we get a bit of a love/hate trajectory again, it's not mutual this time. Fiyero is intrigued by Elphaba from the start, though not particularly because of her greenness--rather, he finds it interesting that she's immune to his charm. He likes that she speaks her mind and causes "commotion," and post-"Popular," he tells her she doesn't need to change herself. The unspoken implication? He likes who she already is. Elphaba is the one who holds back here.

It's not clear exactly where and how the change happens for her. Obviously, the rescue of the Lion cub marks the moment where Elphaba realizes her feelings for Fiyero, voiced in "I'm Not that Girl." But her opinion--and understanding--of him had already shifted. As he points out, some part of her chooses not to knock him out with the poppy spell, recognizing him as a potential ally to help the Lion. And it's in that scene where she acknowledges that he just pretends to be shallow and self-absorbed, adding that he's unhappy within that performance. So she's already made those observations about him. But when did it happen? For me, that's the part I'm not seeing on the screen, and it's an interesting question to wonder what causes Elphaba to reevaluate Fiyero in the first place.

With both Galinda and Fiyero, I think it's important to note that loving Elphaba doesn't change who they fundamentally are. This isn't character growth via The Love of a Good Woman. Both of them already are the people Elphaba comes to know and love, but the parts of them that she values are the parts that they tend to hide. Loving Elphaba makes them want to let themselves be seen, at least by her. By the end of the movie, Fiyero's feelings about how he wants to show himself are already changing, while Galinda is torn, breaking her own heart as she's dragged back into other people's expectations.

Galinda/Fiyero

Mileage on this one varies, I know. Plenty of fans will argue that this "triangle" really only has two sides, that it's Elphaba/Galinda and Elphaba/Fiyero. That Galinda/Fiyero is purely fake performative comphet. If that's your interpretation, that's cool.

For me, though, I do think there are real feelings there, on both sides. Galinda lamenting, "I don't even think he's perfect anymore, and I still want him!" feels major for her character, and I see Fiyero's care in how gently he responds when Galinda is knocked out by the poppies. And it's just more interesting to me if they both care about each other. I'm not saying their feelings for each other are the same as what they feel for Elphaba, or as intense. But in a hypothetical OT3 resolution for this story, I think their relationship would add up to more than just passing each other coming and going from Elphaba's bedroom.

I find Galinda/Fiyero very interesting because, even though they're the only "official" couple within the triangle by the end of the movie, there's far more potential in what their relationship could be than what it actually is at this point. In an OT3 scenario, I feel like their dynamic requires the most speculation or imagination. It's very clear what Elphaba/Galinda or Elphaba/Fiyero would be like romantically. But what would Galinda/Fiyero be to each other?

The way I see it, their canon relationship is hampered by two chief points: masking and outside expectations of monogamy.

Because both of them are performing most of the time, that extends to their relationship. Fiyero and Galinda start dating because each is very much The Sort of Person I'm Supposed to Date. When they flirt with each other, it feels like you're watching a play, two master performers "yes and-ing" their way through a relationship that's far more about the image they want to present than what they themselves really want.

Again, they're both drawn to Elphaba in part because she sees them for who they are and makes them want to be who they are. Fiyero's mask makes him actively unhappy, and at minimum, Galinda's puts her under a lot of pressure to maintain it and forces her into heartwrenching choices. So as they date one another--largely because other people expect it of them, because they're "perfect together"--their relationship is tied up in this thing that brings them misery and stress.

Furthermore, they're not really dating one another, they're dating one another's masks. We know that the real Galinda and the real Fiyero are both great--Elphaba wouldn't like them if they weren't! But in in their relationship, they don't really get to see the parts of each other that Elphaba loves.

That brings me to their other main hindrance. If Galinda and Fiyero are artificially forced into monogamy, then of course it's not gonna happen for them. They're just not it. Neither of them would choose the other over Elphaba, and if only one of them can be with her, than one person's happily-ever-after is the other one's loss.

In that way, I think a real Galinda/Fiyero relationship could only be possible inside an OT3. If both of them were free to date Elphaba, free to love and be loved by her, that could give them space to love each other, in whatever form that would take. Maybe it'd be romantic, maybe not (Lesbian!Galinda truthers, I see you!)--maybe they'd both have a romantic/sexual relationship with Elphaba and be platonic partners for each other. I'm not sure. But I do think they genuinely care about each other, and I think they'd be able to figure out what that looks like for them if they were both comfortable and secure in their relationship with Elphaba. If they didn't 1) feel forced to compete for her or 2) feel that, not being with her, they were one another's "consolation prize." And since I also think being with Elphaba would help them both feel more comfortable in dropping their masks and being their authentic selves, they'd have a much better opportunities to actually get to know one another.

[lover-of-mine]

What do you think the difference is between buddie shippers who enjoyed tommy's part in the bi!buck reveal but are still rooting for buddie and are maybe even annoyed by buck/tommy now and buddie shippers who took to buck/tommy so much that they basically stopped rooting for buddie endgame? Cause I'm in the first group and genuinely don't understand how you'd end up in the second. Did they only like buddie cause it was THE fanon ship? Did they only like it cause it would be a ~hot mlm ship~ but now there is a better one? Were they just never as invested?

Look honey, I went back and forth if I wanted to answer this or not. I have no problem with people who ship both. I don't think it is some sin or crazy character flaw or whatever, enjoy whatever the fuck, yk? My thing is and always will be the insistence in pretending Tommy is more than he is that some people refuse to let go. Is the fact that I'm getting called homophobic for not liking Tommy, a fictional character with a history of bigotry, while someone had the nerve to bring the aids crisis to the middle of a discussion of who should get to kiss a stupid fictional guy. Tommy is a device to Buck's bisexuality, the show never tried to make him as more, Oliver was talking about their breakup in the post 704 interviews, Tim called it a fling, an entry level relationship, and I think enjoying the ship for what it is is fine. The problem is that there was a month between 704 and 706 where people, aided by Lou and the cameos, created a Tommy who's not the Tommy we are seeing, and they assigned an importance to that man that's just not what the show wants to do with him. My problem is the people calling 802 boring because they deluded themselves into believing the show was hiding Lou because he was filming with Angela and are pissed that Tommy didn't land the plane. My problem is the fact that I am being called names since fucking march over a guy, a relationship with 24 minutes of screentime where not even half of those are actually framed as being about the relationship. There's nothing beyond the fact that they are a queer relationship to be invested in. And I don't like hearing that I need to shut up about buddie and respect Buck's choices because he's in a relationship now and suddenly have to respect canon and that it's disgusting for me to see Tommy as a plot device who served his purpose already, when no one had that energy with Buck's previous relationships. I don't like the hysteria people dropped themselves into at the sight of Oliver Stark kissing a man and refuse to let go now because they're in too deep and burned too many bridges just to be stuck with no development, no scenes, a real possibility for a break up about Tommy's past racism, and having to pretend "your dad is alive" is healthy communication and "you're a vision in a cone" is the apex of romance. I don't think people need to justify why they like something over something else. But people need to be fucking for real and stop acting as if he's more than he is because I don't need to agree with headcanons someone paid 200 dollars for an actor to confirm.

[dadattebayo]

So today I bumped on this post and wanted to share some thoughts on the subject, but the account I reblogged it from seems to be off now so I lost my post and no one sees it. Still want to keep it, so...

Sorry, with all respect, but I just don’t get it. Like … WHY should we stop asking them about the thing they actually play? What exactly so bad happens to them if we do? By the thing I mean Haladriel as a ship. They play it. Literally.

Come one, it's obvious the show itself launched the ship. Intentionally, using all classic cinematic tools to make the exact romantic subtext visible to the audience (like gestures, poses, camera angles, looks eyes to eyes, sensual whisper) so we could definitely read it as romantic even if they refuse to confirm it openly. (Due to the possible unhinged reaction of the lorebros, I’m sure) So basically the show implied romance between them from the beginning, and now since they are stepping back, we just have to be ashamed to ask questions? Surely the actors give more interviews then the showrunners, because they are the faces of the characters, their representatives, they could give you the insight no one else could give since they play it and are the most involved in their personalities and emotions. They should be able to explain their motives and thoughts. This is how the acting craft works, they must FEEL the character. This is why for fans, hearing actors discuss a ship is like hearing the characters discuss their own feelings.

See what I mean? Typical romantic cinematic hint.

So again why shouldn't we ask them? why not let the actors talk about their interpretation? Miriel and Elendil's actors shouldn't be asked about them too, or it only concerns Morfydd and Charlie for some reason?

For god sake we all know the ship is doomed, there will be no future, but still the show revolves around them, even in the end of s2 he still mentioned she's his queen. But there was not enough interaction, mostly ambiguous one that we have to explain and develop ourselves, so why should we be deprived as well of their vision and of any extra detail we would like to know from the first hands? | don't feel like it.

And I think people just need to stop decide for the actors how they feel and being overprotective over literally nothing. Shipping is a part of any fan culture. And the actors are not made of glass, they actually are even supposed to speak out. Once again: the show presented and developed the ship. The actors play the characters of this ship. They play the feelings we all see. They are aware of the subtext. They do not feel ashamed to play it. They are not ashamed to play those characters. So we don't have to be ashamed to want to know more about what they play, what they mean and what is their vision on it. There is no harm being caused.

I actually miss good all days when the actors were not considered this sensitive. like for example during the promotion of the X-MEN both Mcavoy and Fassbender got unstoppably asked like million questions about their MAGNETO/XAVIER (Cherik) ship, they were shown fanarts and fanfics, even the explicit ones, they even had to read out loud some about themselves (yeah-yeah, not their characters, but specifically real-person ship aka FassAvoy). No one got offended. One can say they even encouraged it. Homosexual ship. McAvoy was married at that time. Still they were goofing around, touching each other and hugging all the time, talking about their character bromance and generally spreading fanservice all over the fandom. They were having fun alongside with the fans. This was gold.

By the way the same story with their characters: they are a protagonist and a villain , two opposites with sort of cosmic connection, they just won’t let each other go peacefully. There is love, hate, friendship, rivalry and pain. Some fans see them as a friends/foes, shippers like me see them as lovers. This ship is giant, and thank for the actors interaction and involvement into the fandom it just got deeper and much more exciting.

Highly recommended to explore.

Remind you of something? 🙃

[eternalera]

so people have been wondering why caitvi is a lot less popular now within the arcane fandom than ships with timebomb or jayvik and as someone who ships them let me explain mostly why this is happening, of course mostly from the writing perspective as there is likely some misogyny included in said reason but thats just what ive heard and not seen (this does NOT mean it isnt happening though). and im also not including it because im just addressing why even some caitvi shippers (that i know) ended up not caring for it in s2

(click read more because this... this is a long one)

first off im stating that this is just a combination of what ive seen from other people and my own opinions. in your opinion these points can be completely dogshit and thats okay because they're opinions. not fact. with that being said lets get started.

1. Tension, s2 act 2 kills almost ALL of the tension that the first act sets up. in the first act you have them getting together, you have them finally kissing and breaking the previous tension in s1 then to keep people interested in the ship in the same episode they have them breakup. and this works people talked a SHIT ton about this and were going feral over it, looking at the trailer and seeing 'oh look at emo vi and her dictator gf!!' and even the 'there are two ways to handle a gay break up' memes. it was all over.

people were feral, waiting for the next act to see them interact and have beef with each other (before inevitably getting back together because we all knew it would happen). but in act two we dont really get that. we get the aftermath from vi's perspective and kinda cait's???? but then we have their interaction and people are hyped at this moment. because this is the moment. the one that they were all waiting for and there's a small scuffle before... it stops.

vi calls cait cupcake and... all if forgiven rather quickly in that scene (obviously in act 3 they have some more drama but we'll talk about it later). they have their moment and its cute. you have cait folding after being called cupcake, its cute. but thats just the thing. its nothing else but cute. there are still stakes dont get me wrong but that moment is just... so bad for cait's character. she has the whole dictator arc and it just takes vi calling her a pet name for her to switch sides.

and yes its adorable, its everything you want in a ship. but it doesnt really make sense when you take in account everything that they've been building up for cait. her dictator arc, her gassing zaun, training with ambessa, losing her mother, breaking up with vi. it all seems undermined by vi calling her a petname and all of the sudden the tension is taken out of their relationship.

they get back together (sorta) and help plan to take down ambessa and that's all it took. its like having a really evil villain who did a ton of bad things but the good guy gives them a pep talk (vi doesnt even do that) and all of the sudden their mind changes completely

it's not realistic, it doesn't make sense.

then you have act 3 and where vi actually confronts cait about ambessa and her going along with her actions and they have a small argument thats kinda just resolved by cait saying that she knows what she did wrong and that she tried helping jinx not get arrested too and then BAM there's a shift in the argument and then we're back to jinx and it never gets brought up again (correct me if im wrong)

their relationship follows this, happy moment, create something that causes tension, build up tension, refuse to follow through.

its like its tightening a string on an instrument to get a tone but before you pluck it the string loosens and all of the sudden you get this really really dull and kinda disgusting sound that doesn't leave you feeling 100% satisfied in the end

or if you're an artist almost filling in a circle completely but at the last second you color just a little bit outside the lines. it's not satisfying.

2. The sex scene, this is just mostly stuff ive seen and while i dont agree with all of it i must say that they do have their valid points of thinking that the scene was a little misplaced. most of the complaints of seen of this is that vi was out of character and that she should've been looking for jinx since it was implied that jinx was going to kill herself to 'fix' everything. and while i dont think vi couldve really known this i do see where theyre coming from as vi is inherently protective of jinx and her actions and even if there was the slightest chance that she might harm herself vi would do anything in her power to stop it and... she just doesnt.

when cait unlocks the cell she doesnt rush out to jinx, she just wallows a bit longer and mopes (WHICH IS FUCKING VALID BTW). then you have cait talk to her and... SEX. yeah there is other stuff between that but some people felt that they shouldve had them have their talk and then had vi rush out to help jinx.

a lot of people also felt that cait was taking advantage of vi in this moment (i do NOT agree with this at all) to an emotional extent and saying how the scene didnt feel right because vi wasnt in her best state (i agree slightly with this) and that the sex in the cell wasnt really reclaiming anything from all those years of being in the cell like the directors originally intended it to

then you have people saying that it was misplaced (and i kinda agree) and that it just felt so sudden for the both of them especially considering everything with them and then there's the next reason...

3. Caitlyn herself, there was so much drama about her character. in the first arc you have people defending her actions and who were ready to die for her and people getting mad at her, saying she was the worst and that she didnt deserve vi after what she did to her. this also comes with her character being set up to do a lot of evil shit in the future. there was drama (when is there not) and that meant the majority of people loved or hated her with a slim minority not really caring her for at all.

she was implied to have gassed zaun (actually its not even really implied as she, vi, and the gang do it that one episode in a montage and they actually show them doing it for like... a scene or two) and overall just have been a really shitty person to zaunites. she slept with maddie (which people HATED) and they kept leading up to her being the big bad the person who vi would have to convince but once again... they meet and all tension is ruined.

cait's character is one of the best and worst things in arcane. they did such a good job setting her up only to fumble last second and yeah... thats enough to effectively kill a ship as one half of it is the other character (assuming is a monogamy ofc) and 50% is not passing. people arent going to be as committed to a ship when they hate the other character in it and thats just a fact

4. Time, it just... didnt work. timebomb got a full episode (practically) devoted to it and jayvik was kinda in there as crumbs. not to mention that their entire arc is sprinkled a lot more effectively and more long lasting throughout s2 of arcane. with timebomb THEY GOT A WHOLE EPISODE

people already like both characters of ekko and jinx so yeah theyre going to go feral over what coudlve been. the dance, everything and it effectively builds up tension with showing us how good everything couldve been and fully releases it in a satissfying way with ekko's leave. with jayvik you have him going insane and realizing that he has to kill viktor in order to stop what happens in the future (GIVING US THE ANSWER TO WHAT HAPPENED IN EP6 and this also gives us more tension in the relationship when viktor comes back).

you have ekko stopping jinx from ending her life (another reason people didnt like the sex scene cause jinx was actively trynna off herself during it) and telling her to give living another chance because you can build something more you can start again. and you also have the implications of them drawing on themselves in the artbook and just in general during the show. you have the hot air balloon contraption that they create. its everything

jayce then meets with viktor in the room and there is tension so much tension and it all goes to them. then you have jayce confronting and giving himself to viktor on the battlefield and its so well written. now, personally i have my issues with how jayce talk not jutsu-ed viktor into stop being evil or whatever (personally that scene was like a 6/10 for me). "BUT WAIT WHAT ABOUT YOUR COMPLAINTS WITH VI AND CAIT AND CAIT FOLDING AFTER BEING CALLED CUPCAKE?!?!" they would be lessened if we were shown them talking and discussing what happened, what went wrong. with them we dont do that, we dont get the release of them regretting what they've done, their actions. that declaration of love.

with jayvik we do (love can be interpreted as romantic or platonic) and they probably spend more time in that scene talking about each other and how much they care for one another than caitvi do in the entirety of s2 when it comes to discussing their relationship.

basically what happened was that the writers confirmed 'yes theyre canon now, nothing else is going to happen to them. okay time to focus on other things' and caitvi got sidelined SO HARD in the end that come people stopped caring for them entirely and put more attention to ships and dynamics that were getting more attention and love from the show.

basically thats all i could think of and its 1am so sorry for any grammar or spelling mistakes lol. tell me if i got anything wrong, if you agree or just your general opinions on the matter because this is what i could find/gather about them. have a good day/night everybody :)

[sapphic-agent]

As anti BKDK & anti Bakugou, can I ask why you hate him and Aizawa so much (at least I get it why you dislike Endevour)? Yes, Bakugou was bad at first, but he grew as character. Now, he is one of the best anime/manga character ever. When he 'died', many anti Bakugou overjoyed, but he came back alive !!

Why do you thing Bakugou as a character is so popular (beloved by non shippers and shippers)?

Are you anti BKDK because you dislike mlm shipping?

Thanks for your blog, I don't like to say rude things just because of fandom and fictional characters, but can I ask why you dislike Bakugou so much when he changed so much? Like, his devotion to Midoriya is real and he truly is a hero.

(Hope you don't mind to have follower who is Bakugou fan and BKDK shipper)

I have made a lot of posts about why I hate Bakugou.

It's not because he's a bad person. A bad person can be a great character. Shigaraki is one of my favorite characters in the series. I have a lot of issues with Bakugou as a character, not a person.

A big issue is probably how everyone treats him, especially in comparison to other characters. Bakugou can be as callous and spiteful as he wants and so many characters trip over themselves to praise him. Aizawa (I'll get to him in a second), All Might, and the other teachers don't see fit to correct his behavior, even when he's been violent towards his other classmates (mainly Izuku). Worse, Aizawa outright favors him.

Bakugou punched Izuku during the Final Exam and refused to cooperate. What did Aizawa do? Nothing. He passed him even though he failed Sero, who sacrificed himself to save Mineta. He doesn't even scold Bakugou for this even though he scolded Uraraka and Aoyama during the Training Camps.

Monoma isn't even half as bad as Bakugou. At worst, he gives 1A a hard time occasionally. But 1A absolutely can't stand him. Bakugou's friends- Kirishima and Sero- are Monoma's biggest critics.

Then there's how the narrative bends over backwards to make Bakugou seem like a better person. And why I hate Aizawa is that most of the time it's through him. Bakugou is accused of going too hard on Uraraka? Aizawa scolds the crowd to blatantly tell us- the viewers- that they don't know what they're talking about and that Bakugou respects Uraraka as an opponent.

Which isn't even true. He a) blatantly told Uraraka that she should have given up and b) assumed her plan was Izuku's doing. Aizawa was dead wrong, even though he's supposed to be a way to tell us what's going on. And this isn't even the only time he does this, he also defended Bakugou's behavior to the journalists and said that he would work on improving it.

Except he didn't. But this was a way to, once again, shut down criticism of Bakugou. Everyone who criticizes Bakugou even a little is antagonized to make him look better than he is: the pros at the Sports Festival, the journalists, Monoma, etc.

Izuku is also forced to be a tool to make Bakugou's development look better. He was forced to validate Bakugou's insecurities during Deku vs Kacchan Part 1. We're told, by All Might, that Izuku doesn't hold Bakugou's behavior against him. Even Bakugou's apology was less about Izuku- his victim- and more about making Bakugou look better. Izuku, as one of my favorite characters, deserves better than that.

Also, to me, Bakugou's "change" isn't all that significant. He still does most of the things he did before, it was just changed to be more comedic. Bakugou didn't actually change, he got a character shift to make it easier to redeem him. How can I say he's changed when none of the other characters hold him accountable?

I hate Aizawa because he's a bad teacher and a hypocrite. He's constantly scolding and berating Izuku, but says almost nothing to Bakugou. Accuses All Might of favoritism when he had a whole protege on the side he was trying to get into the hero course. Constantly berates his class for their faults while doing nothing to make them better.

Again, during the Final Exam, he had five other students who failed. Students he could have easily worked with prior to that exam. But he was fine bending over backwards to make sure Bakugou passed. He's a bad teacher that the series tries to make out to be better than he is.

Also, I do NOT hate mlm shipping. Zolu is one of my favorite ships ever. I hate yaoi shippers who feel the need to bash female characters for getting in the way of their ship (or being shipped with a male character in Katara's case). It's blatant misogyny, just because it's gay doesn't mean it's not prejudiced. Uraraka gets treated terribly by BakuDeku shippers, or she's shipped with Tsu or Toga, tucked away in a background sapphic ship where she can't interfere. That's just as bad as bashing her because it's using a sapphic ship as a tool to prop a gay ship.

I don't hate mlm shipping. I hate how some of my favorite characters are treated because of it. There's also an issue with it fetishizing gay men for straight women, but that's another issue entirely.

My hatred for BakuDeku is actually separate from this. It's a ship built off of abuse. The abuse even persists in their platonic relationship, it would absolutely maintain in a romantic relationship. BakuDeku benefits Bakugou and only Bakugou, not Izuku.

I think Bakugou is so well liked because his gimmick of tough and edgy entices a lot of people. He had a lot of fans before he started to get redeemed. And now with his "great" character development, it justifies a lot of people's love for him.

[offtorivendell]

On Elain, Gwyn and their apparent romantic worthiness.

TW: mentions of death, violent or sexual assault, infertility and pregnancy/childbirth related trauma. Please do not proceed if these topics bother you.

Disclaimer: please, please engage with this post with kindness. I promise I am not writing it to stir the pot, but because I - and many others - are fed up with seeing hurtful and harmful rhetoric spewed by the fandom, yet having no back up when dealing with it. Word vomit incoming, I'm sorry. This has been bothering me for a while.

My love to everyone who has been hurt by things they've read in this fandom. 💜

It's 2024 and I cannot believe we are still seeing posts, almost daily, about both of these women; all giving reasons why they cannot possibly be with Azriel. And I don't mean the debatable but utterly harmless discussions about Elain not looking good in black or Gwyn blabbing to Merrill when asked not to. Whatever, go nuts. I mean the truly horrific takes based around things these two women have had no control.

Now, my post history makes it very obvious where I stand in terms of ships, and yes, I'm well aware I've spoken before about the inherent power imbalance - that I perceive - which would exist if Azriel ever became involved with any of the priestesses in the women's shelter he is charged with protecting (to be clear, that's not me suggesting that Gwyn and her story isn't powerful, or powerful representation to those who see themselves in her, nor is it personal to Gwyn, or indicative of any of the sheltered priestesses and their ability to heal; it's purely a function of Azriel's position of authority over their sanctuary). I want to reiterate that my stating my feelings about this was never done with the intent to shame people who do ship them; we all ship who we like, and real world ethics should rarely come into it.

That being said, the following, in my opinion, is one of those times.

Firstly, I just want to say that lived experience informs how we interpret fiction, so please let me clarify something: the people who have said that they don't think Gwyn is ready for a relationship yet, and that NSFW fan art of her with anyone makes them uncomfortable, are not in any way in the wrong. They're simply the other side of the coin to those who find it empowering, and both are valid responses, often related to personal trauma. The problem lies with those very few who say that Gwyn could never have a romantic relationship, and call those who talk and/or post about it "gross." Some have called her "damaged goods." This is absolutely wrong and whoever is doing it needs to stop.

The entire fandom, even those who find romantic or NSFW content involving Gwyn uncomfortable to consume, frequently acknowledges that her trauma doesn't define her, and of course she should be able to enjoy love whenever she feels ready for it. Those who say otherwise are readily condemned from all corners. I've seen it happen and called the people out myself, as have many other Elriel shippers when necessary. However, Elriels are still very regularly and very publicly blamed for the actions of a few (some of whom I truly believe are burner accounts wanting to cause chaos, with their Elriel themed usernames and no post history), despite our largely collective action to call them out when we see it.

Could we do better? Absolutely, but so can you!

Because, on the other hand, I've noticed that, whenever I or others have tried to explain why the pliable bones "theory" - which attempts to reason that Elain could never be endgame with Azriel, as she and any baby would die during the course of pregnancy or childbirth - is equally as harmful, we are met with people publicly and wholeheartedly refusing to understand why (especially recently). Some horrific comments have been made to my friends, not to mention all of those I see well after the fact, which are never widely condemned by any but us. People will argue back that we're wrong, and have even suggested we're weaponising infertility! On Mothers' Day, of all the fucking painful days to say that.

Some of the push back I've seen recently includes:

"Nobody has said Elain is infertile."

No, nobody has, and that's not what we're saying or have ever said. We know you don't think this, as the Elucien fandom loves to write and draw Elain and Lucien's hypothetical future children (which is super understandable, as this is a romantasy fandom after all - no shame, enjoy your warm fuzzies).

What we are saying is that, if it's true that Elain's anatomy wasn't changed as Feyre and Nesta's was - and to be clear I cannot stand that entire plot, I wish SJM had chosen literally any other reason why Feyre's pregnancy was dangerous, as it is simultaneously degrading and doesn't fit with her previously established lore - then Elain and Azriel, together^, would be functionally infertile. Yet it's only ever framed as Elain's body not being able to work with Azriel's, never the other way around.*

^Why didn't the bat boys have to sacrifice their wings to keep their wives/mates safe? Why did the women have to change their anatomy? Because it would make it harder for them to be all powerful? Well Nesta sacrificed her powers! Why not just have Feyre be cursed by an enemy or something, and Nesta found a way to use the Dread Trove to save them all. Ugh. I love SJM's books, but this was such a miss.

*HOSAB/HOFAS SPOILER: funnily enough, this was never said about Ruhn and his eventual mate, even though he actually did think he may be unable to father children, thanks to the Oracle's prophecy. People shipped the hell out of him and a couple of different women throughout the CC series, despite the chance he could never get them pregnant.

"People haven't called Elain damaged goods, so it's not the same. We're allowed to not like her."

My faerie porn* lover in christ, what the fuck do you think the pliable bones "theory" is actually doing? It is suggesting that Elain's hypothetical inability to survive having children with Azriel, and for those children to also survive childbirth, is impaired. Ergo, she's damaged.

We don't care if you don't like Elain, we're allowed to have different preferences in characters and ships. That has never been the problem.

*I use this term with affection as a great lover of the genre.

But "damaged" vs a functionally "impaired" uterus? It's the same damn thing, and sorry, it's misogynistic af, not to mention ableist and homophobic at a minimum. In the same breath you are also reducing your favourite to her apparently functional uterus (even though the pliable bones argument is medically inaccurate, by the way - this is really damning of the state of health education across so many countries).

"Hahaha/lol."

Yes, I have seen people laugh and treat this as a joke. As recently as tonight, in fact. It's disgusting.

Regardless of your lived experiences and shipping preferences, both of these takes about Elain and Gwyn are equally degrading and horrific and need to stop, but if you're only calling out the comments that hurt you/your friends/your ship and not the others, then you should maybe attempt some basic self reflection and analyse those double standards you're carrying.

This entire fandom needs to do better. I'll say again, for the umpteenth time, to any of my fellow Elriels that if you think mocking Gwyn's past is funny, then you're not mature enough to read an adult series. But this works both ways, and if you think mocking infertility is funny/use it as a win, then you're just as immature. I would really and truly appreciate it if we were not left alone to argue over and over again why discriminating against someone who couldn't "have a man's children" is wrong, and why many, many people in this adult fandom - that is largely comprised of women! - might find such a theory, and the resulting discourse, incredibly upsetting.

Infertility hurts; not having a kid when you want one can be viscerally painful. Besides that, I know very few people who have given birth who don't carry around some sort of emotional or physical trauma from doing so. Treating a character's hypothetical infertility with one man as a joke is gross.

Please don't call Gwyn "damaged goods" or suggest that Azriel would choose somebody else over Elain because she couldn't have his kids.

They are the same thing.

It's not hard to be kind. Pain is not a competition.

We should all do better, and take care of each other.

[loving-family-poll]

Ultimate Incest Tournament - Round 3

Propaganda under the cut:

Sam/Dean:

I'm sorry but they have it all. children of metaphorical incest just continuing the cycle in any way they can. they are brothers and mother + son and wives and each other's scorned lovers and life partners they've had multiple infidelity arcs they are sexually psychopathic together they have forsook life and morality and the earth itself for each other and just love each other so much . They are literally in a heaven of their own making together for eternity, incestuously. Come on!!! Blueprint!!!!! It's not gay if he's your brother!!!!!

dean did stuff to sam's dead body in ahbl. i just know it

Messed-up, isolated sibs with all the daddy and abandonment issues. Their lives are so claustrophobic with the brothers no more than five feet apart in the car, a motel room, or standing next to civilians (face it, they are frigging magnets). Can't leave out that they are always touching each other to check for wounds which is a huge PLUS for any shipper.

Sam and Dean ARE literally the blowjob brothers. They walk into a situation and everyone goes well well well if it isn't the blowjob brothers....... And they say. Yep. That's us. And then they fix the situation with their epic love story

THE classic, iconic, show shopping, never done before etc. etc. incest ship. It changed fandom and it changed the world

Sam/John:

Underrated Full House of Wincest variant. The younger son who defies his father in everything and runs away to escape the violent, isolated life he was raised in, only to be drawn back when his dad goes missing. It's all about the control/rebellion struggle and the love that persists despite it.

he's John's little boy <3 via John's journal we know John sees a lot of Mary in Sam. they fight a lot and no one can rile John up like Sam does. Sam is all the more precious bc John has to keep him safe from both other hunters and Sam's destiny

Their arguments and fights that look like they're so close to coming to physical blows. makes the hatefucking headcanons so hot. but also we can tell that they love each other so so much. and john choosing to lovingly stalk sam in secret at stanford to check up on him instead of actually talking to him <3

A father who thinks his son was born tainted? That there is something wrong with him?? A father who almost shot him because he beloved it was for the better??? A son who is compared so much to his mom???? Who is just rebellious and always butting heads with his father because he refuses to do what his father wants????? And so obviously his father has no choice but to fuck him, duh