#and by god do I hate the discourse that comes around shipping

[bridgyrose]

🔥

Shipping

I might be kicking a a hornets nest or two...

Shipping is meant to be fun and a lot of people put a lot more merit into shipping than it needs to be.

That said, shipping isnt the be all end all of fandom. If you're only in a fandom because of shipping, you may want to rethink why you enjoy the media.

As well, if your interest in a show drops because a ship you like or want to be canon isnt canon or going the way you want, you may need to re-evaluate why you're watching a show.

Shipping wars are terrible and I really wish people could just enjoy shipping as a fun thing and quit making it a job or some sort of moral failing. Its fine for people to not like the same ship as you, what's not fine is going out of your way to make people miserable because of it.

Proship/anti-ship discourse is fucking insane and has no place within shipping communities despite what everyone thinks.

And finally, if you find yourself looking for shipping discourse to insert yourself into, step away from it and re-evaluate what you're doing. Shipping is supposed to be fun, not stressful or hurtful.

[circuitcircus]

in defense of kabumisu……..

addressing things I see people say about why kabru being shipped w mithrun is ‘bad’ or why their canon relationship ‘doesn’t mean anything’ while also clearing up misconceptions of the characters some fans have

listen it keeps popping up and I just gotta do this or my brain will melt (if you don’t see it around then god I wish that were me) there’s an age gap!- erm there’s also an age gap in farcille (ily), the most popular ship in the series...also chilchuck looks like a kid but a lot of fans recognize him as a dilf because of his relative age, so there should be no age gap discourse among adult characters because it feels so conditional tbh

kabru taking care of mithrun is racist!- marcille likes to take care of others as well. is that sexist, or just an aspect of her character?

kabru isn’t treated like a servant, waiting on mithrun hand and foot…I mean he gives mithrun a foot massage but no one told him to do all that lmfao

he's also not the only one to care for mithrun. pattadol is shown to worry for him and milsril was the one to start taking care mithrun in the first place after he…...y’know. speaking of which-

they probably met when kabru was a kid!- neither of them showed signs of recognizing each other the entire time mithrun was introduced nor when they were together. and im pretty sure KABRU of all people would show some kind of recognition if they'd met before. it's kabru!!! the people person!!! mr. "i-noted-down-50+-characters-in-this-dude's-backstory-for-fun-and-actually-enjoy-social-gatherings"

you would think some kind of memory would come back to him especially after hearing mithrun’s backstory if milsril had even told kabru about him as a kid. but nope. it’s just fan speculation unless there's a side comic suggesting otherwise that i haven't seen

mithrun doesn't care about kabru, his shapeshift double looked like shit!- it's obviously because of mithrun's (then) lack of desires that it looked like that, but they really grow on each other

i think it's safe to assume it'd look more like kabru after they spent so much time together (also laios can barely even remember kabru's name..also saw his face multiple times and didn’t recognize him when they talked for the first time)

mithrun is racist!- he’s actually the least likely character to be racist since he lost his desires and that includes a desire for superiority over others. he even calls his past self out on that part of himself. the other elves in that side comic were being just as racist to shorter lived races but just didn’t use ‘outdated slurs’

(unfortunately literally every main character in dunmeshi is at least a lil prejudiced, but I believe it’s worldbuilding and a sign of the times rather than a reason ryoko kui is giving to hate each character)

taking care of others is a pain in the ass!- saying this as a reason kabru and mithrun shouldn't be together is basically saying disabled people shouldn't be allowed to have romantic relationships because they're a "burden"...if someone is actually willing to put in the work, then let them be.

that's not even all of their relationship, mithrun is the fighter of their duo and kabru would've been killed by the shapeshifter or something if he'd fallen down the hole on his own since he sucks at fighting monsters. mithrun helps collect ingredients for cooking every time, too (barometz fruits and griffin egg). he pulls his weight and then some!! i feel like people forget that part of mithrun a lot somehow.

+senshi literally cooks for everyone all time. it's kind of an important aspect of the narrative.

+also, while it is a popular fan thing I see around that kabru handfeeds mithrun, he literally never does lol this is mithrun using his own hands to eat:

also here we have him washing his own body

just saying because people like to treat mithrun like a baby even though the narrative respects him as a capable adult who also has special needs because of an accident. he’s captain for a reason

kabru hates taking care of mithrun!- not exactly, he was initially surprised and put off but got used to it quickly. i’m sure he’s grateful for all the times mithrun saved him from a monster and teleported them out of danger as well

he even starts doing “unnecessary” things for mithrun’s comfort and safety like when mithrun pushes himself too hard fighting, even after his mission to take care of him was complete when the canaries came back

here is even kabru resting while mithrun keeps watch (mithrun let him sleep for 5 hours before waking him up from the nightmare earlier, too):

there's nothing more to their relationship!- they actually have had a very tight and consistent dynamic since they met and they incite the most change within each other by the end. kabru is the one who inspires mithrun to create new desires so he doesn't waste away, and mithrun is the first person we see kabru being genuine with and it leads him to be more honest with others by the end instead of tiptoeing around everyone all the time (that mask was also the reason some ppl initially disliked kabru…)

kabru’s relationship with mithrun is honestly so important for his character and vice versa, but it’s often disregarded because of one over exaggerated aspect of it (an aspect that isn’t even the first way they interact with each other) or because people want to just straight up ignore it for some reason 🥲🥲

kui dedicates many panels to them that don't particularly serve the narrative as a whole in order to demonstrate this and i think that's pretty significant

you're taking this too seriously!- as if i'm the first person in the world to be crazy about a ship or the characters 😭 i love analyzing text and it's upsetting to see them mischaracterized when kui lays out the characters so clearly and deliberately

also they end up touching each other like all the time and have the kind of canon validation most ppl can only dream of lol i feel so insane look at this:

and this is just when they're first getting to know each other cuz there's a fuckload more

kinda hard to explain how i don't actually need them to get married or whatever but i'd die on this hill for them and i enjoy their dynamic immensely

haha you thought you were reading ship discourse but it was actually a character analysis 🤪🤪🤪

also don’t somehow take this to mean I think anyone has to ship them, I just need everyone to understand these accusations kind of don’t make sense especially when they can also apply to other pairs or characters

bonus kabru just looking at mithrun:

[jingycakes]

In my TD Wicked au, why tf do I think Heather should be Elphaba instead of Gwen??

Just a little post I thought I should make after going through the Wicked tag on here and thinking that I should probably explain myself when it comes to the character choices; and ultimately this is just for some fun character analysis and discourse.

Why I think Heather is more synonymous with Elphaba’s character than Gwen is

Yes, Gwen is a loner with rebellious tendencies; not to mention she was the outcast goth girl in season one. Not to mention she and Courtney are a popular Yuri ship in the same way Elphaba and Glinda are. Also, while we’re playing off of Courtney being Glinda, then that would make Duncan Fiyero, both of which are initially in a relationship with Courtney/Glinda, but then after some character development end up falling for Gwen/Elphaba. 

The problem I have with this is, simply, I am not a Gwuncan fan; I respect/tolerate it more than I did when I was a teenager, but I am still a Duncney Stan through and through, thus in my heart they are endgame. So, no, Gwen cannot be Elphaba, not while I’m the master of this au.

Now HEATHER on the other hand can still work just as well, if not better and here’s a little on why.

First off, Heather is mostly a villain throughout the show, but like Elphaba she wasn’t born evil; in fact they had a pretty similar upbringing all things considered.

Both characters were born to wealthy households, but were ostracized and bullied throughout their childhoods; Elphaba for being green and Heather for being overweight, and neither got the parental love that was deserved. Elphaba’s father blamed her for the death of her and Nessarose’s mother and for the latter being born paralyzed, and from how they act in the video call from home, both of Heather’s parents clearly communicate that they don’t miss her in the slightest and it is popularly consensus among the fandom that they were negligent/emotionally abusive to her growing up.

So we have two characters who were told nonstop growing that they are unable to love or be loved; unworthy, and the source of everyone’s problems around them. Eventually they are going to give in and start playing the part. Of course Elphaba was/is never truly evil and this is only propaganda employed by the Wizard, whereas Heather obviously starts out as a bully and gives other characters plenty of reason to hate/distrust her. However, she does lighten up as the show progresses, and a big parallel I see of her and Elphaba’s character is how when she tries to warn other contestants in World Tour about Alejandro’s true nature, everyone blows her off, just as how Elphaba has no chance at convincing the citizens of Oz of the Wizard’s lack of real power and hidden agenda, because they are already weary of her as it is, which makes it so easy for his cabinet to employ such a powerful smear campaign against her and make her out to be a ‘Wicked Witch.’

Now onto Elphaba x Fiyero….as I’ve said before under a previous post, Alejandro is DEFINITELY Fiyero. I’m still giddy from all their interactions when I watched the movie and I just love how they were able to flesh out the relationship a little more since they were not limited to a live stage production.

What does everyone at Shiz view Fiyero as? A perfect, charismatic prince who has it all; albeit also shallow and self-absorbed.

What do the other contestants view Alejandro as? Perfect, charismatic and charming; but it is made no secret to the audience how conceited he is.

Elphaba and Heather see right through their facades that neither these men are who they make themselves out to be with only one person seeing the real them from the get go. 

Anyways that’s all I have for now; obligatory “thank you for coming to my TED talk” and JFC why do they have to wait a FULL GOD FORSAKEN YEAR TO RELEASE WICKED PART 2

💚🖤

[iiapple]

do you hate knife as a character or what the fandom/his relationship with suitcase has turned into /genq

both

theres aspects to him i enjoy though usually its paired with another character's interactions with the general juvenile violence in season 1 - early season 2. knife and trophy's whole deal is so ridiculously stupid its laughable but in an enjoyable way where im kinda entertained. it can make for a lot of funny interactions that are just jabs at one another (and trophy getting the short end of the dick which is always funny). he and pickle are fun too even without the romancey shippinf component, they can be at a base just stupid gay bros that chill. while he was caught up in mic's business and did lend a hand in her arc, i do prefer how it is now where again, its just slight jabs and non melodramatic fun (add in soap to grill his ass, soapmic knickle video game sesh and soap is crushing everyone at it like hell)

however its the push of him needing to be this "philosophical deep guy who analyzes everyone correctly and its soooooo interesting how much hes changed" that really irks me. because i honestly dont buy it and just see a man who self pities under the guise of "learning and growing i help others now because ive changed". hes like balloon to me in that sense except hes able to keep it composed and together without becoming outwardly desperate. its honestly irritating how much of an involvement he has now and again, how much of a push there is to him being in the top 2 after "all his growth". i just dont give a fuck. why should i give a fuck about a man who burnt and harassed and bullied and tortured a woman in season 1 for fun, and had others try to join in on it too? and the GALL of him to even apologize to marshmallow for it too LOOOOOL... "ohhhh poor me im sorry marshmallow for hurting you before" pussy couldnt even state what he did to her, weak ass self fellating apology im SO glad marsh didnt accept it and was NOT kind about it in front of him. she shouldve start throwing rocks at him. all this "change and teaching" i will never forgive that man for what he did to women

not to mention, how practically of little to no help he was towards suitcase who, was dealing with bigger issues than he was as if hes fuckin get it. such bullshit advice and "lessons" hed tell her when its like dude, shut the hell up!!! youre saying the dumbest shit and still pinning it all against her somehow when shes been tossed around her supposed alliance because those 3 idiots couldnt get shit together for once. that AND her psychosis coming onto the foreground of it all of course shes not gonna talk about it further because you keep pushing in shit that she has no fault in, as if shedve trust you with that. its sweet that theyre working now against everything now but god lol, i just dont buy their newfound ammends and friendship of sort personally

what the fandom has done is REALLY hyopcritical. now im not gonna say its every single person who does this, nor am i a fan of monolith-ing (?) a group of people because of a common pattern, but its just really REALLY funny seeing people going after pairings like lairy or whatever saying its "proship" while shipping a man who has a history of violence on women with a psychotic woman who he has offered piss poor assistance to in the name of his own weird beliefs of changing and helping. idgaf for discourse around a bunch of pixels over trivial shit that really isnt THAT big of an issue (lairy discourse), especially because well, theyre wrong as fuck, but how are people gonna say one thing then turn around and do The Same Shit under another flavour. knifecase is such a kick in the balls to women and another example of how fandom greatly prefers men over women WHATEVER the situation is. theyll fawn over a man whos done shit and think "yeah hes my poor onglydoople poop. only HE suffers in this work of media" while greatly ignoring the issues the women in the same piece of work deal with by writing (misogyny) and circumstances (misogyny again). this world is founded immensely on misogyny and we're never getting the fuck out of it and while yeah im ranting about object character violence being sexist/misogynistic, you gotta get that its all a repeated pattern of these behaviours these mentalities this culture. you can argue one thing about writers intentions and beliefs, we dont know these people well enough to point fingers and label. however, how are YOU digesting it? shitting it out? what is your overall take and without using gay fandom buzzwords and misogynist thinking describe the women in the show (rhetorical)

[rpfshippingpolls]

⚠️ DON’T START DISCOURSE ABOUT RPF IN THE NOTES!! YOU WILL BE BLOCKED IF YOU DO SO ⚠️

Do you ship it?

Reason under the cut

“These answers from Quora question "Why did Zhou Enlai promote Mao Zedong to the apex of power in the Communist Party instead of taking such role himself?"

// "In summary, Zhou was the ultimate diplomat, a smooth operator, handled people appropriately, organisationally immaculate with an eye on detail, and flexible in approach whereas Mao was a person with immense talent, militarily a genius, politically a maestro like puppet master and possessed of incredible guile. He was not interested in quotidian details of running an organisation and knew he had to rely on Zhou. Yet he always knew he had to look over the shoulder at Zhou because as the other CCP leaders told Zhou, Zhou was the only person ever who could take over from Mao. It was like a kind of love hate relationship between two brothers entrusted with the task of establishing and managing a country."

// "Back to the question itself, I have to say the peronality of Zhou En-lai was almost a saint. He didn’t raise, or just somehow got rid of any personal dislike and jealousy towards Mao. I feel that Zhou’s judgement is completely follows the objective fact. His eager for ideal overcame personal emotion. Since he found that Mao is the gifted one and his work could benefit the revolutionary ideal the most, Zhou simply put all other factors out of consideration and uttermostly supported the man he think could push the revolutionary career forward. Zhou En-lai was unusually humble, selfless and resolute. For more than half a century, he was the key adhesive of the Party. Zhou kept the walking god could stay with mortals, and he pacified the factional conflicts within the party in a wisdom and fair way. His work as prime minister and intelligence chief could be done by someone else, but the role as mediator was definately irreplaceable. CCP would be impossible to obtain victory without Mao’s lead. Without Zhou, well, the party may implode long ago. Using this traditional idiom is quite improper, for the metaphor violated their lifetime goal of equity. However, this is the best one to conclude their relationship. Mao Zedong and Zhou En-lai were exemplar of “君臣相得”, which literally means “A right correspondence of a right emperor and a right chancellor”. They happened to occur in that time, in same time. It’s one of the greatest grace of destiny for Chinese civilization."

// These passages from a Zhou biography:

// "Tsunyi was the watershed, the great divide. Here began Mao Dzedong's supremacy. Here too began the bond between Zhou Enlai and Mao Dzedong, an indissoluble linkage, until their deaths. Not an easy alliance. Deep entente, and profound discord. Devotion and loyalty, but also resentment. The two men exercised upon each other a mutual fascination, because they were so utterly different, in character, mentality, physical build. [...] Greatness, in China, not only lies in personal achievement but is also organically linked to the discovery of talent and genius in others. Zhou had discovered Mao Dzedong. Discovered genius, an amplitude, a breadth of vision, in which his own passion for China could recognize itself. The tragedy of this bond would come later, much later. When Mao, betrayed by the power lust of all around him, feared and envied Zhou Enlai, the only man who had never betrayed him, who had never wanted to wrest power from him, because he had never needed power to assert himself. Robert Frost has a line of poetry: "The heart knows no devotion, greater than the shore for the ocean." Zhou was the shore to Mao's ocean, forever stemming the transcending waves, yet inseparable from them. A Chinese scholar has another view. "Zhou Enlai knew Mao was a tiger. He, Zhou, thought he could ride that tiger.""

// "Zhou as usual walked briskly about, inspecting the rooms that were to be used. He spoke to the cooks. "Remember the Chairman likes his food with red chili." It had become second nature to Zhou to care for Mao's bodily comforts, as he cared for his wife's, for his friends'. But he was also exhibiting his affection for the Chairman, possibly to make Mao feel he was revered and loved, for he sensed how mortified, how heartsick Mao must be, now that his grandiose scheme had broken down."”

[queerofthedagger]

not to stir the pot but i’ve seen some really shitty takes recently about arthur being gay and completely erasing gwen’s importance to him. what are your thoughts?

oof well that is in fact a loaded question but I genuinely feel your frustration so let's give this a shot lmao

the short of it, to quote a friend of mine: 2012 tumblr called and wants its shitty shipping discourse back (derogatory)

the slightly longer of it.... to start this off, no one has to ship anything. no one's saying that anyone has to ship anything, or headcanon characters a certain way, or that you're not "allowed" to say that you don't ship certain ships. that's just . not a thing that's happening, and I do wanna reiterate strongly that you don't have to ship anything.

that said, well. maybe if you find yourself with the urge to nail your 'why i don't ship this canon interracial couple' against the proverbial church doors, you should ask yourself.... why is it always the black characters you find "badly written." why is it always the black and the white character who have "no chemistry." why is it always the black character you find unrelatable, that you think would be soo much better suited dating another character of color, etc. etc. These things do not happen in a vacuum, and you don't need to hate or even dislike that character to play into tropes, stereotypes, and issues that very many people have very extensively explained to be less than stellar, to put it mildly.

And Imma come out and say this: fandom is not activism, you don't need to be a loud, outspoken activist and/or turn this into anything more than a hobby. if, even amongst the discussions had in the last years, you have never once stopped to ask yourself how you might deal with the internalized racism that we're all dealing with, how it might affect people in the spaces you share while doing your hobby, then, frankly, you gotta do better. fandom is not activism, but we all have some basic responsibility of not causing more harm than there already is going around. this should not be a controversial statement either.

you can ship merthur without invalidating and trampling all over the frankly brilliant fact that this show went and casted a black woman as queen guinevere. you can ship merthur without taking away scenes that are not about them - god knows there are enough. you can acknowledge that 75% of your shipping takes are subjective, that merthur isn't, wasn't, and was never going to be canon, and literally none of this takes away from the two generic white dudes whose faces you'd like to smash together. this entire fandom is and has been majorly about those two generic white guys, for well over a decade, and i'm saying all this as a white merthur shipper. like, this is the bare minimum. and yet, here we fucking are.

as for the arthur being gay thing - again, you don't need to headcanon anyone a certain way, but whenever i do see this specific headcanon it "somehow" always comes with an incredibly weird (to put this mildly also) understanding of sexuality, top/bottom discourse, and - you guessed it - takes on arwen, that are maybe something people might want to uhh. examine also.

this isn't a callout, or a call for a witchhunt, or or or. personally i block and move on, and I wouldn't have said anything more on this than a vague shitpost on my sideblog, but god knows i can never shut up and even less so when asked, and I do think that while, again, fandom is not activism and I'll stand by this, people should... try and aim to make some basic attempts at not causing harm. it's not even hard (although that should not be your measure but like, again. bare minimum). it really is as easy as not constantly invalidating and side-lining ships and/or characters, by doing basic research in how not to whitewash characters, why not to compare skintone to food when writing, etc.

On that note, none of these are things that I've come up with. A lot of people, especially fans of colour, have done a great deal of work to provide resources and education that are... incredibly easy to find if you can be fucked to make some effort. Imma link a bunch beneath too but like. Yeah I guess that's my take. You can ship whatever you want, genuinely, from the bottom of my heart. But 1. maybe sometimes take some time to consider what you're saying, 2. maybe take some time to do some basic self-education on some issues in general, and 3. writing posts on why you don't ship whatever ship has never accomplished anything beyond getting people who agree with you to stroke your ego, and step on the toes of people who don't. at best.

But also, last but not least, the block button is your friend and all that

Resources by people much better equipped to talk on these things than me:

How to stan the white guy with minimal contribution to fandom's racism problem

The racism in the Merlin fandom and towards Gwen specifically

Educating Merlin - a blog that's specifically tackling racism in this fandom

Fanlore on Fandom's Racism Problem(s) (use to find many links leading you to further discussions on it)

More Fanlore with further links

When white people talk about racism in fandom

Writing with Color - Resource blog for writing specifically, but honestly also covers so many topics that it's incredibly useful for doing some self-examination too

I'm not saying you need to agree with everything said in all of these sources, but also if your constant reaction to these discussions as a white person is to get defensive, to dismiss it, etc., I'm saying this in the nicest way possible: maybe sit with that for a bit. Ask yourself why requests like not constantly making fun of a ship gets you in such a huff. Etc. etc.

Lastly: if people would like to add onto this with more resources, that's highly welcome. That said, anyone clowning/harassing/being a bitch on this post will be blocked.

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

Morning this is your local Stritzo anon. I’ve got more shots and takes to say about HH/HB & the indie animation’s biggest fraud Viv. Yes someone put that as their title in their google doc chock full of evidence so I’m going to use that to insult her lol.

Suddenly, the fan redesigns are better than canon, at least not too much details are added, no eye scream for me thank god. Unfortunately I recall a popular YouTube artist LavenderTowne getting harassed over it. 😬 Guess the sheep followers just wanna hate for no good reason after all…

…

Wouldn’t it make more sense for sinners to be the lowest caste, just below the imps and hellhounds? I mean they’re former human mortals who did nasty crimes that barred them from entering Heaven. Or Purgatory kicking them out for being too much for their standards. Ex. Obsessive stalkerish behaviors of hate or love (refusing to let go of someone), murder out of selfish reasons, you get the gist. That’s just my opinion on this no?

I HC Purgatory to be a neutral yet judging ground for spirits, demons and angels. Any one of these three are allowed to stick around forever or await their trial.

One restricted area could be the spirits awaiting their trail bc their sins’ weight equals their virtues’ weight. This could be the judge and/or jury deciding their fate depending on the severity of their sins. “But he/she/they had many achievements like helping out their community!” “Yes but let’s not forget their literal crime(s)!”

In another restricted area, the most vile spirits and Demons meeting up angels like prisoners chatting with their friends and loved ones, separated by a clear barrier. Spirits saying their last words before their trial and demons given the rare chance to see the ones they genuinely care even after so long. The guards watch, making sure no foul play or sus behavior from either side is at hand.

However, the demons sent to Hell for lesser crimes have to wear a bracelet tracker that prevents them from escaping. They have more freedom to walk around certain areas and chat but aren’t allowed into Heaven.

…

Canon HB is now the walking stereotype of horrendously written yaoi instead of talking about assassins from Hell. Ngl, canon yaoi is worse than canon yaoi these days compared to the distant past of the 2000s. Because at least for some modern fanon Yaoi people, they are somewhat civil and don’t shove their precious ships down others’ throats. I mean some ppl at least did their research and be like, “huh, yaoi/yuri is no different than heterosexual ships. Just gotta keep things canon accurate, no bashing man.”

However! When there’s canon Yaoi, ppl usually become uber cultish. “But It’s can0N! How dare you!” Bitch what? I didn’t see such close minded behavior on the canon cishet ships!

When allegations of Viv popped up like years ago, several ppl and I thought that behavior callouts were small/petty compared to actual legitimate grievances. But when the real evidence of her genuine misdeeds showed up in the 2020s (underpaying workers, the playbill incident, etc.), I was like “if there’s hard evidence of the latter then those people were right about the former being a person with a nasty attitude.”

Ngl, preordered apps are more trustworthy than prepaid physical items bc you never know when you might get ‘em. I really dodged a bullet with the fraudster’s merch when it comes to online shopping. I’ll just go to other ppl’s shops thank you very much.

…

The anti/pro shipping discourse is petty compared to what’s mentioned above! Both sides have their extremists and close minded sheep! I’m an ex anti, I felt like a weight has been lifted after unfollowing some rabid antis years ago and deleting some anti reblogs. I applaud the antis who don’t associate themselves with the misinformation spreaders (doctored or just no evidence), harassers and doxxers ruining people’s lives over fiction. (Unless there’s clear hard evidence of that person doing criminal activity.) I also approve of the pro shippers who don’t but into other ppl’s turf that clearly said “DNI X”. I mean if someone’s not comfortable or detests certain things, just move on or even block. Not create a hate campaign on those users.

Not all antis and proshippers are the same! People have their own experiences! Yes, taste of fiction is subjective but if that preference is seen as genuinely problematic in rl, it’s best to not get too comfy showing that off. I mean why are most ppl giving y’all the side eye for that?

I agree. I was a fan when COVID hit and as a result I embraced the fandom. I really thought we were going to get something great with her verse, but as you said she's too much of a fangirl of her own work and not a creator who focuses on a good story. She favors the fandom part of the creation rather than the product of it. And all of what you said would have made a better story than what we got here.

[helloimsoverybored]

A Pretty Long Rant on RPF shippers in the context of David Tennant and Michael Sheen

the entire georgia/anna discourse is so. bullshit. because those are actual, real people, with real lives and real relationships with those around them

Regarding dt and gt, just saying, no one has five children together as part of a pr stunt. Same with Michael and Anna.

And the fact that rpf people fail to realise this is concerning- taking the "my wife" jokes quite literally. News flash, it's a fucking joke. It's not something gt and al are making up to cover up for the fact that their respective partners fell in love with each other (yes, this is an actual take i've seen on this matter)

And idk if the rpf people are just dumb or are fully aware of what they're doing, despite the fact that they're completely tearing apart the lives of real people.

Another retort I've often seen is that fans have the right to criticize celebrities. Yes, yes they do. But breaking down a marriage spanning over a decade isn't criticism! You're creating fake problems out of thin air and for what? Genuinely, for what?

Rpf shippers just automatically assume the worst in both Georgia and Anna, and you know what? God forbid women do anything. Because that's exactly what this is.

They're completely vilifying gt and al because... they're in a relationship with their "blorbo actors?" They're acting like gt/dt and al/ms are fictional characters that you can play around with like dolls but you can't play around with real people's lives! Simply put, it isn't ethical.

I feel like the rpf people just fail to understand the meaning of “real”, because I don’t even know how one can feel so alright and happy by tearing apart the lives of real people. The fact that people are finding every possible way to find problems in their current relationships to suit their fantasies is so fucking disgusting.

Okay now if you're with me so far, I'm impressed. Stay with me because I'm not done yet.

Regarding Georgia, don't rpf blogs just love to criticize her and her parenting methods? That Georgia's just lazy and only wants to drink wine, but omfg. wtf. She has fucking 5 children. I don't care what you think, managing those many kids is NOT an easy task. But also... posts I've seen on this matter never seem to bring up David? Why? Isn't he a parent? Shouldn't he also have a role in parenting? Whatever Georgia does surely won't be against what David believes, right? Wake up, rpf shippers, wake the fuck up.

David almost definitely does have a role in the parenting (anyone willing to fight me on this, come off, I'll give you the reasons) but since he’s all over London at the moment, he probably doesn’t have much time. Which means that gt has to manage 4-5 kids all by herself. So she does actually deserve a break, more than anyone else. But she doesn’t because wahoo god forbid women do anything.

And putting all that aside, what the hell gives rpf people the right to hate on her as if they know her irl. Their default behavioral status is set to mean and bitchy and that’s just. concerning. rpf people need to understand the difference between real life and fiction istfg.

Okay, i swear I'm nearing the end of this rant, please don't go yet.

Sometimes fans do have the right to speak up against an UNHEALTHY relationship. There are multiple examples all over the place where one person has expressed dissatisfaction but no one took them seriously. Except… neither gt/dt nor ms/al have expressed dissatisfaction. At all. It’s actually the exact opposite where they keep fawning for each other. There’s 0 suggestions of any of them being unhappy in their respective relationships apparent from yall overanalyzing their body language to the point where it becomes false.

Do Georgia and Anna ship themselves with each other and ship David with Michael? Yes. But that's a fucking joke. Learn to take a joke, yalls, it will get you a long way. And even if they are the ones doing the shipping, so what? That doesn’t give you the right to. It’s their lives. You’re just a person viewing their lives from a small peep hole known as Instagram.

[dootznbootz]

Hi!! I love your blog and I’m enjoying your Odypen headcanons and theories very much! I recently started reading the Iliad so I’m new to all this and I just want to know your opinion on smth. In song 1, lines 135-140 Agamemnon mentions the bride prizes of several Achaean leaders, including Odysseus. Obviously nothing else is mentioned, no name, just that he has one, too. What’s your take on that? Any headcanons? I honestly hate the whole cheating discourse around him and I don’t want to add more fuel to the fire because in the Odyssey he was clearly a victim!! I would just love to know what you think about this particular thing in the Iliad. Considering the historical and cultural context, having a bride prize was normal in war (albeit awful from our modern standpoint). But Odysseus is a very interesting and complicated character so this could go in many different ways with him, and in any case it doesn’t really change my opinion on his love for Penelope. Thank you! :)

Thank you so much!!! That's so kind! And I'm so happy you're reading the Iliad! I hope you enjoy it! I'm so happy you're enjoying my silly and I DO have many thoughts about it! :D

And very good that either way, it doesn't change your opinion on his love for Penelope. My opinion/interpretation regardless of those lines, that should ALWAYS be the interpretation that people have of Odysseus.

So idk if you've seen my Aspec OdyPen silliness yet and/or my "Odysseus is a half-eunich from the boar". BUT those are my headcanons. (which I can delve into further later)

but I'll go over the canon evidence now. :P

(disclaimer: Slavery is a fucked up thing regardless of the circumstances. this is in no way excusing any of it)

So IDK which translation you're reading, but as someone who's read multiple versions...Some just say "Prize", and with the "it" and "something". I...didn't really see it as a woman and/or specifically a concubine.

Let Achaeans give me another prize, equal in value, something I’ll enjoy. If not, then I’ll take a prize myself by force,                                   something from you or Ajax or Odysseus.

(Book 1, Johnston)

Let the Achaeans find me a prize in fair exchange to my liking, or I will come and take your own, or that of Ajax or of Ulysses; and he to whomsoever I may come shall rue my coming.

(Book 1, Butler)

But if they do not give me such a gift, then I will seize your own prize or Ajax’s or Odysseus’ and carry it away, angering whomever I visit.

(Book 1, Heumann)

So to ME, (I do not know what the actual words said mean) I take "Prize" of "something of equal value" and/or just a slave.

As yeah...My Odysseus is aspec (basically Pen-romantic/Pen-sexual), I kind of plan to WRITE it personally as a bit of a thing with "Grab one of Odysseus' slaves, he doesn't use them as concubines."

And with Odysseus being the one to transport Chryseis, I have it where it's a bit of "I'll go bring her to her father. Take any slave you wish from my tent if you must. I don't care."

Agamemnon dragged a swift ship down the shore, chose twenty sailors, loaded on the oxen, offerings for the god, and led on fair-cheeked Chryseis.          Shrewd Odysseus shipped on as leader. All aboard, they set off, carving a pathway through the sea.

(Book 1, Johnston)

(Also with Ajax and his girlfriend/bride prize, I think this kind of made him extremely worried. My Odysseus and Ajax have "special beef" even BEFORE the war but they are fine about it by the war. Odysseus not only doesn't have a concubine or slave woman he's attached to but he also was helping a bro out in a way lol.)

And Odysseus is a king and a piece of shit. It's horrible but it feels in character for my lil asshole to basically use pretty slaves in trading. "Hey, you like lighthaired girls, yeah? Well, you have that really pretty silver-studded sword...I want it. Would you like to exchange?"

I want to make it clear that I'm not writing like this or interpreting this in the way of "UwU Odysseus is too of a good boy for that." as that feels icky to try and "make everyone else shitty to make him 'better'". It's literally because Odysseus is just simply LIKE this. He has basically no libido/sex drive if Penelope isn't around. (I'm keeping this as safe for wormlings as I can so I'll leave it at that.)

An old wip post explains it more but I'll also put the wip itself here to kind of explain lol

My Odysseus is a "pretty boy" as he is in canon as well, and he hates when people make moves on him.

BUT these are just MY headcanons and/or what I plan to write, while I just don't really vibe with Odysseus being with folks willingly other than Penelope I have big gay for her. I live vicariously through Odysseus. I love her so much I can't stop others and other people COULD find evidence of Odysseus being with others if they truly wanted.

[melissa-titanium]

i and b for theee ask post mayhaps if i may

twirls hair in fingers smiles

I - Has Tumblr caused you to stop liking any fandoms, if so, which and why?

B - A pairing–platonic, romantic or sexual–that you initially didn’t consider, but someone changed your mind.

oh my god ok okw ait. imgonna do the second for mp100, md and ln cause those are my main girls right now .

I - honestly?>?? um. a little bit for every fandom ive been in. but twitter has caused me the most grief LOL.....

id have to say homestuck first cause the homestuck fandom is just. fucking RAMPANT with people who mischaracterize.

murder drones second for the same reason but ... it's smaller so its more manageable. there's always going to be bad apples in fandom space no matter what you do unfortunately.

that is exactly why my first mission once i get into an interest is to scope out the coolest people in a fandom and get them to be my mutual. there are a bunch of people who have yet to follow back but. i am persistent. if i have you in my sights you better believe we're gonna be buddies.

for murder drones i think this was mainly ...

@ / electronix-arts @ / 400terahertz @ / randygrim @ / jamieenthusiast @ / ghoulinfuschia @ / yorkistarbomb @.t1rkras rip tirkras :( I JUST CLOSED THE TAB WITH MY LIST IN IT FUCK. ITS OKAY GUYS IF I FOLLOWED YOU THAT MEANS I THOIGHT YOU WERE AWESOME IM SORRY IF YOURE MISSING FROM THIS LIST. BAWLS. also theres a lot of other people on twitter who r cool and i hope they come to tumblr because we all know what twitters like LOLLLLLLL.....

for mob psycho. off the top of my head???

@ / bugcatcherkit @ / metukika @ / bonk-boink @ / bizarre-blues @ / percycoolguy @ my wonderful mutual bloodpopdreams on twitter. queen get out of there @ and... YOU!!!

I WAS SO FUCKING HPYED WHEN YOU FOLLOWED ME BACK U HAVE NOOOOO FUCKING IDEA.

B - ok. fuck. ok. for mp?? RITERU. breach of trust & suitablyskippys one fake relationship fic made me go absolutely fucking insane over them.

breach of trust already on its own is an INCREDIBLE fic but seeing how teru & ritsus dynamic developed without mobs influence was... so so so interesting. and suitablyskippy is just a fucking awesome writer no questions asked so their fic made me love it even more LOL.

also. i might sound insane for this one because its literally one of the most popular fucking ships but. terumob ? like. ok . i know. but i didnt interact with the fandom until after i finished the damn show & didnt pick up on ANY of the undertones of their interactions so it came out of complete left field to me as the most popular ship.

my immediate thought was oh its going to be a johndave situation or something where ekurei was the most popular but then serirei took its place. but i was completely fucking wrong LOL.

BUT YEAH im not insane over terumob but i think they r funny if done right :))

FOR MD... um. genuinely nothing. LOL. the fandom has done a shit ass job of convincing me to like ANY pairings, platonic or otherwise. in fact its steered me away from alot of them.

i genuinely liked nuzi until seeing a lot of the discourse around it LOL...

to be fair i am not a big shipper. i see romantic relationships from a purely analytical point of view because a) autism, and b) aroace.

BUT IN SHORT...i don't HATE all murder drones pairings, i just like to see them through my own personalized lens without any fandom influence :)

LITTLE NIGHTMARES IS DIFFERENT CAUSE. LIKE. ??? ROMANCE?? DUDE HALF OF THE CHARACTERS ARE CHILDREN AND THE OTHER HALF ARE MONSTERS TRYING TO EAT THEM. THE KIDS ARE TOO BUSY TRYING TO SURVIVE AND NOT STARVE TO DEATH AND THE ADULTS/MONSTERS ARE TOO BUSY TRYING TO K I L L T H E C H I L D RE N . AINT GOT NO TIME FOR ROMANCE !!!!!!!!! BUT in terms of platonic pairings. the fandom didnt really change my opinion on any BUT im in the middle of reading a reaaaally good fic that expands on flashlight girl's character (called flicker in this fic,) and explores the idea of runaway kid & six having a dynamic. it's super fun & INCREDIBLY well written and im very sad for when i finish reading it cause its unfinished and was last updated in 2022 </3

WHEW this was long HELPPPPPPPP. THANK YOU FOR SENDING THIS ASK IM GIGLGIGN <3333

[paragonrobits]

there's a few ships i specifically dislike because they did not happen in canon and their supporters complain non-stop about how the series personally betrayed them (often for a relationship which is not only noncanon but the characters in question barely interact and this hypothetical relationship is unrelated, or even contrary, to their narrative arcs) but a lot of the discourse they create around this is also eerily similar to the discourse you see with people propping up a faction or group that is inherently antagonistic and, using very similar arguments, these people straight up make up stuff to make these groups look better, and their opponents (the canonical protagonists, the characters they view as romantic rivals for their fanon ship) as being villified in very similar ways.

Let's take, for example, that One ATLA Ship. You know the one. The one that those big name fans never shut up about; the most frustrating discourse about it is that the diehard shippers have straight up invented all manner of details and criticisms that have no actual relationship to canon, and this is important because the validity of their arguments revolves entirely around these facts they've made up and have no basis in canon.

Lets take, for example, the ever popular 'Katara should become a bad ass Fire Lady and rule over the Fire Nation' fic concept. A lot of this premise requires certain details that either directly antithetical to established canon, or presume aspects of the character that are not canonical. The Fire Lady has never been shown to have any real political power at all, and novels have indicated that the consort to the Fire Lord has only one purpose: to produce heirs. That's it. They have no political power at all. And to be blunt, these fans SHOULD realize this because the Fire Nation has been established as exactly the sort of empire that puts all its power in the hands of an autocrat revered as a god-king.

Other facts further tear down this notion. Katara is characterized as wanting freedom and happiness for everyone, regardless of nation, but she is also characterized as someone who loves her homeland and would prefer to live there, and not abandon her cultural customs and visual details (as much of the Fire Lady Katara imagery does, having her dress entirely in FN style, including her hair, which is culturally an extremely loaded thing, as I understand it). She certainly doesn't give the indication of wanting to rule over an enemy nation like a conqueror. I think a lot of this mentality comes from the idea of 'absolute power = empowerment' to some people, which is also where we get the whole girlboss concept; the idea of absolute political power equating to personal empowerment and being liberating, rather than it being exercising power over others, with all the moral difficulties that entails.

The arguments of the people who support this concept relies heavily on aspects of her character which do not exist in canon or she has given no indication of but her existing characterization leans towards 'no', both in terms of romantic interest and long-term goals. She is the last waterbender of the Southern Water Tribe. She wants there to be more waterbenders from the Southern Water Tribe, and living the rest of her life in a nation populated by the people who systemically destroyed her people's culture and killed most of them is not in any part suggested as something she would want to do.

Now, consider the Sith. In Star Wars canon, they are a pretty blatant faction of bad guys. They are built, from the ground up, to be evil. Their philosphy explicitly hates compassion and any form of love outside the context of possession; their ideology revolves around selfishness and weaponizing hatred, and just about every iteration and established character is incredibly cruel, heartless and even the most reasonable of them, so much so that they are no longer considered Sith, constantly yell at you if you do things like 'give homeless people money' or 'help anyone for any reason that does not further your personal goals'.

There are no canonically good Sith. You cannot be a good person and a Sith, because their ideology explicitly forbids things that generally make a person moral and kind, and that same ideology expressly encourages hatred, jealous possessiveness, and betraying others for gain. When we see Kylo Ren in the first movie of the sequel trilology throwing a violent temper tantrum that could kill anyone nearby when he lost his temper, that's the logical conclusion of all Sith mindsets.

However, the Sith are very widely believed in fandom circles to be more inherently moral or capable of heroism compared to the Jedi.

Part of it, I think, comes from the Jedi's philosophy discourages certain things that people tend to romanticize or believe are essential; its very common to believe in the idea of love being inherently ennobling or making you a better person, in family as the ultimate good, and personal being the most important thing. The Jedi do not permit marriage if you are a part of the order (and its crucial to mention here that leaving the Order is perfectly fine and usually doesn't even have any stigma; Dooku did so and he was well regarded by the Jedi until his actions were revealed), they don't usually have children and instead adopt children into their culture, and their philosophy stresses about letting go from attachment, due to the nature of attachment as inherently jealous and thus giving the Dark Side a way into your spirit.

It is important to remind a reader here that this is NOT attachment as in 'cares for someone' or 'values another'. The term instead is used in the philosophical definition of attachment as jealous possessiveness or, at the very least, the inability to accept that all things fade; everyone dies, or all relationships end one way or another. The desperation to keep those things by clawing at them or pulling them closer is attachment; causing harm, to yourself or others, because you cannot accept the inevitable. This is fairly basic philosophical stuff.

However, because these Sith apologists refuse to accept either the Sith being the big bad villains of the franchise or what the series means about attachment, they view the idea of attachment as a moral good in its own, believing the Sith to be inherently more noble than the Jedi because they believe that a personal attachment induces morality. Just because you care about ONE person does not mean you care about others.

Many people in real life love their friends and family deeply, but could not care less about anyone outside that family. Consider the classic case of a family man or woman who loves their family, kisses their children goodnight, is unfailingly faithful to their spouse, and then goes to work and tortures people for a living, or participates in genocide and the systematic oppression of other people, all without the faintless twinge of guilt or moral compromise.

Caring for a specific person does not induce universal compassion. Love for a speciifc person is exactly that; just love for a particular person. It doesn't guard you from indifference, callousness, or anything at all.

So, its very interesting to me that a lot of these fandom obsessions, despite being very different, have very similar arguments going on about them; whether its AtLA fandom trying to argue that Aang is the most evil person in the universe actually, or insist that the Sith could secretly become the greatest heroes in the setting, while ignoring both Aang being a compassionate hero while his foils are explicitly selfish (and crucially, KATARA is also just as compassionate and not focused solely on her loved ones), and the Sith's iconic technique being a torture beam.

[maoam]

I'm sorry for this long ass ask. I just wished to get a bit this out of my chest. Feel free to delete it if you would want to feel a bit more positive!

As you said once, if I remember correctly, there is no one more mysoginistic in fandoms (especially shonen) than the het shippers rather than the "fujoshis." In my personal experience, at least, I rarely have seen people hate a girl because she is in the way of their mlm pairing. But I have seen in het ships women be especially vile with their words like slut shaming, body shaming (flat chest vs busty discourses).

Especially in the Naruto fandom, I don't understand why NH and SS stans have to be on the march of war against each other, or why pit their favs against each other when they clearly are "not in the way" of their respective pairings, or even harass all other ships. In fact, I Hinata and Sakura are even in friendly terms. If not outright, they don't care about each other's existence for most of the time, I think?? So why so much catty?

Sometimes, I visit NH/SS/NaruSaku blogs out of curiosity, without doing anything but looking. Usually their content is all about shitting on other pairings but just that. They don't support other creators who appreciate the pairings, like writers or artists. Just shit on the rival pairing while be like "unlike that shit, this pairing has sense and is better". Like, they are more obsessive about what they hate rather than what they love. Absurd.

I have seen people call Sakura a cumdumpster (I swear to god that word-) and Sarada a hoe/slut, and considering Sarada is like 12 to 16 years old... well, it weirds me out. Or shame on the fact Hinata is a busty woman and usually that's the only bad thing they can say about her that comes to my mind, along with other slut shaming.

Or the weird obsession Sakura fans have about Sakura's body, like "THIS IS WHY SHE IS NOT FLAT." Why do you care so much if she's beautiful anyway?

I can go long but I won't because it sounds kinda frustrating.

But why can't these people just... stay in their planes? And ignore each other? Or if they love their one true pairing, just support artists or recommend fan fictions they like, or heck do something themselves and create a more positive environment not only for the fandoms but for themselves as well. Because most of the time, they go on anti - or pro tags and just harass people who think differently like they do with you or sneezemonster-

Again, sorry for the rant, and thank you if you had the patience of reading. Bless your day and keep doing what you do! What you write is always interesting to read <3

People mistake fujoshis (or just people who ship gay pairings) complaining about the het ships having no mutual development/how the female character in said ship has no individual development/revolves only around the guy she likes as "hating on the female character/misogyny". Which it isn't. Sure there might be couple who are misogynists, but that really isn't what I usually see. Meanwhile het shippers are indeed very vile in their ship wars.

"I don't understand why NH and SS stans have to be on the march of war against each other, or why pit their favs against each other when they clearly are "not in the way" of their respective pairings"

Because to them shipping is also a contest, and everyone is their competitor. They need to show everyone how they ship the best ship or how "their girl" is the best girl of the show. NH will talk about how Hinata is more "fertile" than Sakura (which is really misogynistic), how she is the heiress, how she is the richest girl in Konoha (lol). All very shallow things, none of them she even earned. And SS will go out of their way to "prove" Sakura is better looking than the other Naruto girls, because somehow that matters more than Sakura not having any dignity in the story... And yes, SS's crazy need to prove Sakura is not flat, sometimes they straight up edit Kishimoto's drawings so she would have a bigger chest.

This is also why these especially crazy people don't flock to shojo as much, since shojo doesn't usually have as big of a mainstream audience as shonen. And maybe they are addicted to one-sided interaction, because they relate to it? They can't relate to a female character that has reasonable feelings?

But yeah, recently I have seen a lot of Historia hate and it's all "she's spreading her legs to the farmer", "Whorestoria", "even her whore mother didn't like her", "blonde whore" and so on from certain het ship fandom. But sure fujoshis are the worst ones for saying Mikasa's character revolved too much around Eren...

[night-dark-woods]

15, 21, 23, 24!!

THANK U ECHO this got so long oops.

15. that one thing you see in fanart all the time

hmmm not destiny-specific (i dont have any d2 specific gripes i dont think) & i mostly follow cool gay & trans ppl so this is much less of an issue than in the wider fandom (every so often some Main Fandom Art makes its way to me and i do a full double take) but like. i knowww they are almost all the same character model in-game but can we please get some characters who arent super skinny supermodels in here. please.

21. part of canon you think is overhyped

not to sound like an edgelord but. the traveler. if we can acknowledge that the Darkness isnt ontologically Evil, i think we can (PLEASE) acknowledge that the Light isnt inherently good. and im not talking about the superpowers we get, they've (narrative team) made it quite clear that individuals choose to do what they will with based on their own morals. but the traveler is, imo, positioned as a Morally Good Agent Of The Light far more than the witness is Of The Darkness, and i think we need to talk more about the traveler's agenda!!! again, this complexity isnt completely absent from the narrative, but it doesnt feel like those interpretations are... metatextually supported igss? like zavala's frustration with the traveler leaving feels more like a very christian (as someone who was not raised religious) test of faith that zavala (and the canonical YW) have Passed and will be Rewarded.

where's tevis my best friend tevis. we need more characters with that pov. god is real god resurrected you god gave you a second chance at life with no memories of your past and a guardian angel (a "chattering oversoul," to quote toland) to tell you where to go and who deserves to die and raise you every time you fail just to throw you back into the divine crusade. like. lets talk about that a little more!!!

23. ship you've unwillingly come around to

this is hard bc i am in general very willing to "yes-and" ANYTHING with a hint of chemistry or a fun dynamic. it may not compell me but if you can point out a narrative similarity btwn characters i will almost always be down. unless its one i hate ("hate" being a strong word. really its just the strongest possible apathy) bc i contain multiudes :thumbsup:.

i can't think of a pairing i started out disliking and then changed my mind about due to fandom unfortunately. the closest would be igss that i hate crow/amanda as its written in the text BUT my perhaps controversial opinion is i think transitioning could fix crow specifically the version of crow i have in my head who did not get uldren's memories back. SotL was so good for the overarching plot of d2 but so so so bad for the type of awoken-enjoyer i am & imo the like... thesis statement of what a guardian is lol!

so unfortunately i dont have an answer for this one (i dont think "i like the pretend version i made up in my head" counts as coming around on a ship lmfao), bc you can pair any two destiny women and ill be like yeah for sure! and i have curated my online space well enough that i rarely see any other kind of ship, and when i do its gay men (o14, uldren/jolyon, someone i follow is cooking something with saladin/drifter which is inspired. i love whatever is happening there) which is like cheering absently for a sports team idc about but support on principle.

24. topic that brings up the most rancid discourse

mara. its always fucking mara. literally spent an hour and a half last night rehashing d1 mara-course in a server with someone who has not read any lore. which is fine! thats a fine way to engage with the game! its a valuable perspective! but use i-statements and accept that you are coming to the table with 10% of the facts about the character.

honorable mention goes to anything about redemption arcs (and savathun specifically)- most recently that fuuucking saint killing sav repeatedly lore tab. and if you (general) cant be assed to care about evil women (skill issue, but whatever), thats also backsliding YEARS on saints characterization and i dont even care about saint!!!

so really the answer is misogyny lmfao.

[7m7n7]

lmao @cosmicjoke just curious...do you actually even believe what you wrote? or are you just that pathetically lacking in self-awareness? it literally takes an EFFORT to even scroll through how much you blabbered about me FOR DAYS, HOLY SHIT LMFAO. anyway, scroll away in this one i guess, since it includes some receipts from poor blameless wittle ewuwi fandom you're claiming is "mostly good" and just must be "defensive" to awful people such as myself :-(

Yeah, i said you woobiefied him (which is a degradation of character no matter how much you froth from mouth 🙂) and YOU wrote me 3 different wholeass paragraphs and in one of them accused me of sending you hate. And you still do, despite the fact i had literally no reason to do so. wanna suck up to eruri fandom that bad, huh? you're so fucking stupid and SO obsessed with retaining that moral highground you SO CLEARLY jack off to, you're even letting eruris who hate you using you to get back at me. who do you think those anons and sock accs you're chatting w are? "this dumb bitch comes at me with insults and accusations" what a hilarious sentence! can you write one sentence without projecting so intensely that you need to be in a mental ward?

"self shippers are so jealous uwu" OHHHHHH MY GOD LMAO. the fucking eruri rhetoric of GRAND PROJECTION. NO fucking self-shippers gives a fuck to eruri you absolute dumbass 😭 entire discourse happens bc eruris harass them (and other levi shippers) bc of THEIR OWN JEALOUSY holy fuck!!! how can you be so fucking disgustingly biased? and even though you know i also like rivaere and have no problem w other levi ships, you're trying to use me as a scapegoat to "prove" self-shippers are "homophobic" and against "gay ships" start discourse with real levi stans bc some of them also didn't validate your ridiculously awful levi takes apparently. even though you also should be well aware tons of OC shippers also enjoy or don't mind eruri, you're literally attacking people JUST bc they disagreed with you in a previous discourse, just like what you're doing to me right now.

LMAOOOO nobody's crying anything you braindead loser, and the only one getting "curb-stomped" is your pea-sized brain trying to generate a sentence that doesn't have five contradictions and failing pathetically. "if they just left a sentence exactly like what i had in mind uwuwuwu i wouldnt have started to froth from mouth uwuwuuw how dare they accuse me of woobiefying levi when i obv woobiefy him uwuuuwu 🥺" LMAO nobody is obligated to treat your fragile ass like glass, not my goddamn problem you're so fucking pathetic you start losing you GODDAMN MIND when someone strays a little outside what you deem as acceptable. i didn't throw insults or anything at first either, i just said what it is: that you woobiefy his character, and you clearly can't stand being told the truth. Once again: you %100000 woobiefy him and resent people who don't agree with you. the fact you're THIS vitriolic towards people (thanks for showing i wasn't the only one, at least!) acting like i tainted your honor shows that enough. you literally wrote a "call out" bc of one comment which YOU turned into a fight. you lack introspection madly and you constantly project, so ofc you're just gonna spiral into another fit of rage when you see this, but you can't fool people who are unbiased no matter how much you blabber on 🙂

Ohhh lmao, it reaaaaaaally couldn't be more obvious you have beef with people who like top levi. that's literally it. Do you fucking realize how goddamn creepy you are when you talk about how i must want to get "smacked around" by a man just bc i said you were woobiefying him? You're a fucking freak. You have no idea what i even like (since you're so curious, i enjoy a wiiide range of levi) but this doesn't have anything to do with what we talk, you think people don't woobiefy characters they like as tops? bc it's SUPER common in most fandoms. the way you immediate resort to talking about people's sexual fantasies is freak behaviour and shows where your true problem lies. and what does this even mean "what the actual reality of Levi's sexuality would likely be"? Do you think people who have trauma can't be dominant? "Assuredly wouldn't enjoy sexual aggression" Why, were you in the room when he was banging people? That's just your hc you're pushing as canon, AGAIN. You want everyone to act like their hcs are just ooc hcs, but they have to accept your hcs as canonical regardless of how much bullshit they are. There's this insane push against *any* top levi content from eruri stans which they dub exactly as you do even though it doesn't reflect the fanon at all, and it makes it TOO OBVIOUS what your real issue is. Lmao, an eruri shipper who has a problem w ppl who like top levi, what a fucking surprise! 🙂

also this is from that @p-ssypink imbecile who's also obv an eruri

stop projecting and pulling discourse out of your ass. "forced masculinization" levi is already a hypermasculine character in canon, you clown. which probably makes you cry :^) and what does this have to do with homophobia? you think all gay men are feminine? pretty sure such stereotyping constitutes as homophobia. anyway, i said "my deal is im in love w him" bc that clown said something like "your whole deal is your hate for eruri rather than stanning levi" i think that message was cut from the og. obv loving a character doesnt make anyone an authority. but "every eruri is out to get self shippers bc they're ego-maniacal lunatics who cant separate fanon from canon and only see levi as a smol bean omega bottom to be protected" Yes, you got one thing correct, congrats! :) 👏🏻 That's exactly how %99 of eruri shippers are like and anyone who has been in this fandom long enough knows that. But "to be protected" is misplaced, since they mostly get off on degrading and torturing him. sometimes they just like to pretend they have any sympathy for him since they've been accused of being levi haters since ALWAYS, lmfao, but don't worry, i can send you a lot where they admit that too. and ofc, the pretend sadness fits right into their agenda with that sad pathetic little doormat levi they want.

anyways. am i homophobic or are people who consistently emasculate a character in %99.9999 of their fanon bc they think being feminine or bottom is degrading the ones who are homophobic? or maybe calling him the f slur constantly, you'd think qualifies? you don't think treating him like a "little twink who's only job is to get fucked" is fetishistic and homophobic, is that tooootally okay for you? What about bullying and mocking people who think differently and forcing their hcs on them, is that fine?

"inability to top" hmmmmmm i wonder how do these people see t/b roles and why they're so aggressive about them 🤔

plotting to get a levi/oc video down....kudos on that courage to admit that on their main! 👏🏻

there are so many, this was veeeeeeery hard to pick tbh but here are just few examples. and no, these aren't just one off events or "bad apples" and all of these people are known eruris, and some have thousands of followers. you may accuse me of "making hating eruri my entire online identity" which is fine and dandy. but ENTIRE eruri fandom makes their identiy hating on what they deem is a threat to their glorification fantasy.

as a bonus here are some multishippers who love eruri talk about the same issue being so common as well 🙂

i think it should be clear why :')

and @jayteacups saying this nonsense, idk if theyre just playing obtuse but lmfao. some people just don't know mentality in shipping communities enough soooo

having an OC/self-insert have NOTHING TO DO with what im talking about when i criticize self-inserting/identifying etc with a character. and what i'm criticizing isn't even the fact they self-insert into a character lmfao, it's the entire toxicity it brings, bc through overly identifying w some inadequecy of a character (in this case it's obviously the fact levi's more popular and attractive than erwin that bothers them) they grow jealous and resentful, bend canon to alleviate their insecurity + derive ego wank and attack others who don't validate them. as a result, practically all they do is degrading levi in every way and use him as a validation device (and other characters too btw, just look at how they treat zeke) to make erwin come off "superior", gatekeeping levi bc they can't stand seeing him w other characters, even real life fangirls, both out of possessiveness but also bc it ruins their narrative where erwin's the "conventionally attractive" one. that's the reason for the push against people who like levi in a "hetero" way (read: Top, masculine, alpha, daddy, het, whatever bc they think it translates into "conventionally attractive" lmfao, and precisely why they love bi erwin but NEVER bi levi). and this isn't just against self-shippers, they treat every other levi fandom similarly, and these ships also get mocked as "self insert ships". ironic considering their treatment of erwin puts early ff.net mary sues to shame 🥴 they can't be honest about jackshit bc it ruins their glorification fantasy where erwin has to be the one that ship is all about. they're the definition of "have my cake and eat it too", they act like they barely tolerate levi just for erwin's sake but bitchfight over him every second with everyone, depict him as a one-sided simp for erwin, try to alleviate their insecurity by reducing him to a loser doormat while doing the exact opposites towards erwin.

⬇️ gotta be pretty self explanatory lmfao

^ Very famous and beloved people among eruris

despite the fact there's a lot of pushback, they'll still argue tooth and nail that women wouldn't like levi and would prefer erwin. Why do you think this is soooo important to them? :^) ⬇️ lol wonder why they want him to convince ppl he's "feminine" so bad! almost like it's bc they see it as unattractive and degrading! but sure, we're the sexist homophobes for hating eruri fans, right? oh and the white supremacist rhetoric also so common - bc i've never seen anyone refer to being blonde in MEN as a good thing outside eruri fandom - since it's a feminine stereotype. "tall DARK and handsome", no? :') But they'll use ANYTHING just to make erwin look better, so they're pretend it's related to generic beauty standards rather than, idk, fucking rantings from hitler's headquarters. maybe some other day i should post them calling him aryan, hmmm....

look at how they act towards even their own (rare good ones lmao) artists when they depict levi in a conventionally attractive way, they bash on it and call it "hetero" hmmm :')

Oh oops they already said the quiet part loud! 😱But going around shitting on artists and calling levi "erwin's submissive little bitch" is okay to you, right?

By the way, one of the anons cosmicjoke made a fake acc to come at me just now on twitter bc i called out one of the eruris calling levi f*ggot. Apparently according to them it's just no big deal, that's just calling levi "gay". :') linking it bc too many pics: https://x.com/emeraldsas77759/status/1801556666556559451

Just a small taste of what eruri fandom is like, since most people here on tumblr don't have a fucking clue. Anyway cosmic"joke", what an apt name. Now, you can puke blood all over all you want like the useless, pathetic eruri ass-kisser you are and write few other novels for my sake! don't get too comfy with those erwin stans who are now sending you their love instead of harassing you tho lmfao!

(^ bc they said levi had a bolo tie of his own and MAYBE he wasn't wearing erwin's bolo tie in the FUCKING OFFICIAL ART LMFAO)

"don't ruin the rep of our fandom they're not eruris uwu" Familiar argument, isn't it? :') bc THAT'S what they do, creating ungodly amounts of toxicity, shitting on everyone, intruding in everyone's spaces, then when they get even a little pushback, they start screeching like little rats trying to shift the blame on others. These are the people you defend when you defend eruris. But hey, you can continue to suck up to them, try not to step one milimeter out of line tho, saying levi isn't erwin's dog may get you death threats. Have fun, goodnight, good luck! 😘

[ihatemisinformstion]

I hate TikTok so much you have no idea how much I hate it they hear one little thing out of context and then they suddenly say it’s canon hurting like half of there own community because they hate queer black people for some god awful reason I don’t even know about the micro aggressions or the fact that people think HOBIE x miles is a proship I will say this once and I will say this again I will LIGIT clear everything on hobie having a canon age because he does not. And I’m tired of people on TikTok and anywhere else saying the same thing and I might change this into my second acc just for flowerpunk and I’ll actually put my name but I’m not gonna cause I don’t wanna have this turn into a big thing if they do confirm he’s over 18 but anyways I’m going to give all my points cause I think people see something and they automatically think it’s true

To the people saying he's 19/20 that was a director talking about his concept design and could be more based on the comics it's safe to assume that Sense another director said it's up for interpretation and Gwen said he's about her and miles age then he's most likely a teen below 18 and was aged Down for the movie and it's kinda obvious because he hangs around the teen squad don't litsen to the misinformation everyone is sayin as well as the clip that people are talking about is completely out of context and so I need you to all stop it!! I’m not even an adult and I despise pro shipping it’s one of the things that triggers me into things it’s weird and it’s weird your putting a silly ship into this horrible topic so many think it’s ok to put in because the age is unconfirmed half of you people just don’t like queer black people and I am one so for the love of god stop calling people proshippers when they view hobie as a kid!!!

Phil Lord who's also a director said it's up to interpretation/headcanon plus even likened him to Sex pistols who started off young. Alsp like I said the whole Gwen and Hobie implied/jokes about being together thing would be weird as f https://twitter.com/sillyabtspiders/status/1666405777009958913?t=ct4kf0PoYIeUHwsP3tsHDQ&s=19

Of course there’s the other video but again that is concept hobie and prowler hobie not even the hobie we See as well as HOBIE is Most likely aged down and based off teen hobie stop bringing it up because it doesn’t matter!!! I’m literally so upset with being called a proshipper and such and it’s actually really stupid that I have to fight on this because everyone other ship is fine except when there both black and queer it’s weird to how much people care and I’m so tired I’m so very tired of it. I literally cannot take it anymore it’s weird you people are just as weird I’m just so upset right now and by the way I’m writing you probably have already seen me post a bit on my main but it’s embarrassing how you all cling to one thing

I feel great comfurt in this ship I do with a lot of dynamics and I don’t even ship punkflower hard I just think it’s cute but the way you people look at soemthing and think “wow proshipper” is insane because eTHATS NOT WHAT IT IS IM SORRY ITS NOT IT MAKES ME SO FRUSTRATED and I can’t tell if it’s cause I’m getting hyper fixated on this or what but I hate when this happens because wir causes so many people stress for no reason but your stupidity

Unless every single director comes out and says that HOBIE is older than 18 and not with Gwen and miles I will delete this and actually admit to it ok I’m not unreasonable I’m angry but that wouldn’t make sense because why would they tease romantic relationship as well as having hobie be with the minor coded charachters all the time

IM SO SORRY IF YOUR STRESSED BY THIS BECAUSE IM THE SAME I JUST FEEL LIKE WE WILL NEVER WIN and it’s so AKWARD I seriously hope that this whole situation gets cleared up and people will be able to ship and have there family dynamics and I’m sorry for anyone who doesn’t wanna see discourse just wanted to finally clear everything up because I know it stresses me out so I can’t imagine how other people feel

[practically-an-x-man]

1, 10, 13 and 24 for the ask game? (hope you had fun at round two of Deadpool & Wolverine!)

Thank you so much!! (and I did!! it's just as good the second time around!)

Since you mentioned the movie, I'll answer for the Deadpool/X-Men fandom :D

Choose Violence Ask Game

the character everyone gets wrong

This is less about the character and more about how fanfic authors write him, but... Deadpool himself. I get that he's tough to write, and it's hard to do fourth-wall breaks and have them come across as funny rather than cringey, but it's just... I don't know how to describe it, it's just not quite right. It just comes across as super heavyhanded rather than playful and cheeky. Even when people manage to get his characterization decently accurate (though that's also rare - as is typical of fanfic, he gets smoothed out and softened a lot), there's something about his style of humor that just never seems to land in the fanfics I've read.

Maybe it's just that his humor translates more to a visual-forward media like comics or movies, and it doesn't quite work in pure prose, but it just irks me either way.

10. worst part of fanon

The X-Men of course is a super found-family-heavy franchise, and I love that in canon... but people get so weird about it in fanon. It's the same pitfall you see in found family tropes a lot, where people try to ascribe these nuclear family dynamics onto the characters regardless of whether it fits, and it grinds my gears so much. Yes, these people love each other like family! No, that does not make Charles and Erik the dads and Logan the grumpy uncle and Kurt the baby brother or whatever! They don't have to have an assigned "role" in this found family dynamic, and their dynamics in canon are way too complex to even fit those roles without chopping away massive pieces of their characterizations.

13. worst blorboficiation

RAVEN FUCKING DARKHOLME!! Look. I love her. I really really do. But oh my god she needs to stop being people's blorbos. It's a mix between people who have only seen the movies turning her into this sweet, monogamous, never-does-wrong hero character, and people who have actually read the comics getting rightfully pissed off at that characterization.

I don't think Jennifer Lawrence made a bad Raven, and I think it works for her as a young Raven still trying to find herself, before she has the confidence that will lead to her being the bisexual, morally-flexible antihero we see in the comics, but I also think that people get way too devoted to that depiction of her and brush away all those sharper sides.

24. topic that brings up the most rancid discourse

Anything ship-related, especially when it relates to Scott, Jean, Ororo, Logan, or some combination of the four of them. I hate shipping discourse as a whole, but there's something about those four characters that just send people into this absolute frenzy over what the "right" ship is.

I've only seen it kicking back up again, first with X-Men '97 and now with the Honda Odyssey scene in Deadpool and Wolverine. Y'all. It's fiction. All of your ships can coexist, it's not like the fictional characters are going to seek out a divorce lawyer because you posted some rarepair fanart.