#and an erasure of aromantic people who are not asexual.

[beginning-writer]

I made a post about a really small portion of the aromantic community who felt in love once in their life. Because an aromantic person feels no OR low romantic attraction, this means that even if it is just once we can still feel it and this should not be invalidated.

I opened my tumblr and there were two questions in my inbox, which is weird. I open it and see this:

I could make a post about why they're wrong and how ignorant this was. But they are so cowardly that they don't even let themselves be known after leaving such an unnecessary and stupid comment in the question box of a person who was just sharing an experience for a small group in a small community.

Yeah. I could, but I'm not going to worry about it. Anonymous, know that this didn't result in anything and you wasted your time. For those of you who fell in love and are part of the aroace community, you will continue to be one of us. Because aromantic is someone who feels little OR no romantic attraction. You can still feel this, it will just take time and it will probably only happen once.

In case you're wondering this is the post in question:

Kisses and hugs to all aromantic people out there.

[styrofauxm]

(this was back on my dash and I have thoughts again, sorry)

"it's just shipping"

uh huh, that's why people lose their shit when you say Peridot (Steven Universe) is canonically aroace

and why people call for Yelena Belova's (Marvel) orientation to be switched to lesbian for the MCU. Despite rightfully being mad about the erasure of many other identities (queer or otherwise)

and why people complained until the end of the series that Nita and Kovit (Not Even Bones) were aspec and not dating

and why people practically celebrate the backtracking of the confirmation that Alastor (Hazbin Hotel) is aromantic

and why people with non-canon gay ships get really upset at non-canon aspec headcanons

and why there is a massive gap in the amount of people who ship gay/lesbian characters with women/men and the amount of people who ship aroace characters

It's not shipping, it's not discourse. It's aphobia.

[think-queer]

I've been thinking about why in so deeply bothered by people saying that afab enbies who don't look trans are less oppressed than other trans people. Part of it is just that it is either based in enbyphobia/misogyny (seeing afab enbies as women and seeing women as attention seekers with a victim complex) or it's erasing amab enbies (because if 'looking trans' is such an important part of the trans experience then why wouldn't the same apply to amab enbies who aren't visibility trans)

But I've realized that it's also because it reminds me of one of the most common acephobic arguments I saw back when asexuals were the targets of the "discourse" (aka the main target for bullies in online queer spaces) The argument was that no one can tell you're asexual unless you tell them. That mlm and wlw can be clocked in public by homophobes and thus are the targets of violence but asexuals aren't going to be holding hands with the wrong person so clearly we don't experience any type of oppression. At it's heart it's the same argument I see against afab enbies. It's this idea that going through life hiding your actual identity is a privilege, that somehow staying in the closet all the time is fun and easy, it's the idea that the only meaningful form of oppression is random violence from complete strangers, that non-violent bigotry doesn't really matter, and that violence from people you know is somehow less common or less important. It's people acting as though the only reason that someone might seek out queer spaces is to avoid that violence from strangers, and that seeking out queer spaces for emotional support or to form connections is somehow "taking up resources" or an "invasion" of a space where they don't belong. It's the same oppression olympics that I hate with every fiber of my being, that does nothing but turn us against each other and distract from our actual oppressors.

Afab enbies wanting to exist and be acknowledged no matter their gender presentation is not an act of violence against other trans people.

It took me years to come to terms with my asexuality because of the way asexuals were targeted when I was a teenager, and I hate to think that there are going to be people growing up now that struggle to come to terms with their gender identity because of the way enbies are being talked about.

[princsstwilightsparkl]

saying "if aroace people can date, then can lesbians date men?" is absolutely aphobic narrative btw!

[sri-rachaa]

potentially unpopular/controversial opinion?

[aromanticofficial]

shocking news, The aroallo guy is here to talk abt being aroallo. everybody gasp

anyways. i wanted to explain why aroallos are so "sensitive" about our identity and place in the aspec community.

the aspec community has a sex negativity problem. this is obvious. the amount of "sex bad" takes that are boldly labelled "aspec experiences" instead of what they actually are (puritan culture) is enough to make anyone who actually experiences sexual attraction feel more than unwelcome in the aspec community.

aside from that, there's also the erasure. aromanticism is always treated as a subcategory of asexuality. there's this constant underline to every mainstream-ish discussion of aromanticism that basically comes down to the inherently aroallophobic idea that "not all aces are aro, but all aros are ace". it's not that anyone says this out loud; it's that everyone seems to imply it subtly, everyone seems to believe it without even thinking twice about it.

aside from that, there's the lack of representation. name an aromantic character. chances are, you've just named an aroace character. and even in the very very rare case of a character being canonically aromantic but not canonically asexual (e.g. carpenter from the silt verses), the fandom still treats them being asexual as canon. fandom treats aromanticism as something that must only exist within asexuality, not as its own separate identity.

our fellow aspecs spew aroallophobia at us in a misguided attempt at humor (i've gotten several asks from aroaces telling me i "should" be aroace), our posts are mistagged as asexual when we make it extremely clear they're just about being aromantic (and when we point out that we don't like that, we get called control freaks. true story), the aromantic tag is filled with posts just about asexuality, allos either call us emotional abusers and imply we objectify people by simply experiencing sexual attraction, or imply that we're just afraid of attachment and that they can "fix" us.

the absolutely jarring truth of being an aroallo on tumblr dot com is making a post about being aroallo and immediately getting ten anons telling me i'm "no better than a straight man", "an aroace in denial", "an emotionally abusive predator", or just a slut, while at the same time someone comments on my post "you're making up an issue that doesn't exist" "why are you so mad about this" "you wanna be a victim so bad"

whew. okii that's all. hope that clears stuff up for non-aroallos out there /gen

what they said

[helluvabossrewrite45]

Helluva Boss and the Disappointing Asexual Representation - an Ace Former HB watcher

I am aromantic and asexual. I used to watch helluva boss during the 2020s when it first started. The internet was the only place where I got introduced to lgbt content and people for the first time, including queer media and helluva boss is one of them. I used to question my sexuality of being aroace, lesbian or bisexual until I finally accepted my identity as an aroace (full circle lol) While my aromanticism was easy to accept, Asexuality was a different story due to how the topic, you know, was around sex and it took more time for me to accept that I was also an asexual. Am I open about it? No. Unless you are one of my close friends, you wouldn't have a clue about my actual identity unless you know the labels for it. This is because with how predominant sex-normativity is, asexuality is often invisible to the wider length of society still, even when were more seen than before. And as someone with a queer identity most people wouldn't understand, I had seen the disguised bigotry people do to other queer identities that aren't as easily understood such as trans people, as they would be misgendered if their bad people. These people who misgender claim its for 'respect' but it's really a blatant excuse to openly be bigoted without backlash for it. It's not only the kind of bigotry that is prevalent within social media but also an extremely sneaky bigot method to avoid accountability.

Let's look at how this related to Mammon, an asexual character in HB:

On a surface level, this would just appear to be Bee insulting Mammon for being an asshole with the same connotations that is a well-known motif of the show; sexual references as the punchline. But Mammon being an asexual changes this viewpoint entirely. For one, Bee is ignoring his asexuality with using nobody wanting to fuck him as an insult even though his identity would immediately weakened it. Her sexual insults to him such as "sucking a dick" and "fucking himself" contribute to negating his asexuality even further. the "fucking yourself" aspect is particularly interesting because it frames him as self-centered. Now yes, Mammon is a self-centered character but his asexuality isn't relevant to this at all. By Bee relating his asexuality to his self-centeredness, unintentional or not, thereby reinforces the entitled notion of asexual people being selfish for lacking sexual attraction as if it wasn't out of their control and as if they owe allosexuals their body to be as "normal" as them. It wouldn't be a problem if mammon had openly show his asexuality proudly to rebut Bee's acephobic insults however, he doesn't. From not allowing the opportunity for Mammon to be open with his asexuality, it highlights helluva boss reinforcing invisibility of asexual people. In addition to this, this scene illustrates the disguised bigotry predominant on social media by Bee's acephobia being framed as justified by Mammon being a bad person, as if it related to his asexuality. Therefore, Helluva Boss failed at representing asexuals through contributing to our invisibility as well as encourage disguised bigotry.

Now, Mammon isn't the only asexual character.

Octavia, the only underage character with some significance, the character Rogers referred to as a 'cockblock' for Stolitz, is also asexual.

*Sigh

Her being underage isn't what bothered me. I'm also similar of age to her and young asexuals should be seen in media. Adult Allosexuals would often portray our asexuality as a phase and immature thing for the "real" mature experience later on. I only mentioned her being underage because of how this erasure of our identity by adults also applies to the later that actually bothered me: Rogers referring to her, an asexual minor, "cockblocking" an allosexual achillean relationship. Him referring to her as that is not only gross to say for a teenager that just wanted her father to pay more attention to his family than his affair but also how it can further isolates asexuals from the queer community. It reminded me of the terf comic where an ace was depicted as prudish, immature and whiny during pride month. Referring to her as a "cockblock" over an allosexual queer ship further reinforces these notions; that were too prudish, too immature, too whiny to be apart of the lgbt community, that we "get in the way" of ACTUAL queer people. And I'm worried that not only would her asexuality not even be shown in the show but also how her depiction in the series can reinforce acephobia because while she's not seen as bad as mammon, I know she would get hate in the upcoming episode and it worries me that there's gonna be acephobia involved, especially from how again, Roger depicts her as an obstable for Stolitz.

This show clearly wanted to do something similar to bojack. Vivziepop clearly likes bojack. And I find it very ironic because bojack is one of the few shows, especially at its time, that's one of the best ace representation. All through one character: Todd.

Unlike HB, Todd's asexuality is actually explored in the show. His acceptance of his asexuality, his explorations of his relationships with other aces (such as Yolanda and Maude) and even having him participate in an asexual space assists in making us aces visible, that we exist and are valid for who we are. There's no disguised bigotry, no joke that digs at his asexuality and definitely no implication that he's an obstacle for allosexual relationships. It's an ace character whose identity is recognized and respected in it's media, and that is what Helluva Boss fails at. Rather than letting asexual characters be as open of their sexuality as the other allosexual queer characters, it instead both ignores and even encourages bigotry towards us. That is what made HB's asexual representation to be disappointing from me, a closeted yet proud asexual.

Any of you who is asexual should be proud of your asexuality too. Your not prudish, immature, whiny or self-centered for lacking sexual attraction and you belong in the lgbt community. You don't owe anyone anything to prove your apart of the community because your existence already defies societal norms about sexuality. You are as queer as the rest in the community. You deserve representation that recognizes and validates you for who you are. You matter.

[penguinsfly]

I unfortunately saw something I didn't want to see and that was my last straw. I'm fucking doing this.

Let's establish this first. Alastor is stated in the show to be asexual that is not up to discussion. He is also very heavily implied in the same conversation to be aromatic. 'An Ace in the hole' being used in context of him being with Charlie is also implying his aromanticism.

VIDEO

If that's not enough then here is Viv speaking about his romantic orientation. It's pretty clear despite the fact that afterwards she said it's okay to headcanon whatever (it's not but I will get o that later) that he is written purely as an aro ace character.

On top of that going by Alastor's interaction with Angel from the pilot and the first episode it is clear that he is sex repulsed. Not only that but on the fandom website he is stated to be touch averse with two sources which you can check out on the website.

Hazbin hotel wiki, Alastor page

Now we established that Alastor is canonically Asexual, Aromantic, Sex Repulsed and Touch Averse

As I also am all of the above I'll try to explain everything to the best of my ability as simply as I can.

Aromanticism and Asexuality.

I'm probably targeting the audience that knows those terms but regardless I will explain it anyway.

Aromantic - people that experience little to no romantic attraction towards any gender

Asexual - people that experience little to no sexual attraction towards any gender.

Little to no

Asexuality and aromanticism are spectrums in which people can feel certain attractions towards people but those attractions are less occurring or are defined by personal connection.

Diagram from AVEN website

However some people are at the end of the spectrum, they never felt attraction and that's valid. Alastor was stated to be aroace he wasn't written as demi or as gray he was written as aroace as in the end of the spectrum. His repulsion and not giving shit about romance or sex speaks for itself.

Representation

I do understand that everyone wants to be represented but it's so important to understand that aroace people are one of the most underrepresented queer groups in the media.

And I'm not here to scream about how I want my fav character to be just like me I don't care for it I'm way too confident in my orientation to rely on that however I'm tired of explaining to people what asexuality and aromanticism is just to receive 'are you sure' or 'you'll change your mind' or 'its not real' or the community favourite 'you'll find the right person' no I won't I'm not looking thank you very much (I just smile and nod to be polite and I'm sick of it).

'Harmless' buts like: 'He might be on the spectrum', 'AroAce people can still feel attraction' hurt the final outcome for all the people on the spectrum not only strictly aroaces because it allows people to write one shots with 'Demi Alastor' that falls in love in 2000 words because he is 'demi' (spoiler alert: they don't understand what that label means). It's just a cover, an opening, sneaky way to disregard his orientation, feel good about themselves and move on. Newsflash there is no moving on for aroace people it's our life.

Shipping

Shipping is just harmless fun right? Usually yes but not in this case. In the same way its not okay to ship gay characters with genders they are not attracted to.

It's erasure and since there is much less people identifying on aro/ace spectrums then there is gay or bi people our voices are being silenced. Not to mention that gay people received support from entire LGBTQIA+ community over the years in contrast to aro/ace specs who to this day are told that we are 'not queer enough' or 'not oppressed enough' often by other queer people.

And finally... FINALLY we get cannon Aro/Ace character that is clearly not interested in romance and sex. Character that beats stereotypes of boring and timid aro/ace people and what's the first people do? They ship him. Alastor's storyline provides so many points to be explored like 'what is his backstory', ' what's about his deal', ' how does he fit in in the found family trope' , 'does he care about hotel guests' yet people choose to write about the only thing that he is not interested in. As a heavily repulsed person that used to be horrified about the fact that I'll have to fall in love with somebody at some point before I found out what aro/ace is I find it repulsive and trust me he would too.

But Viv said it's okay!

Its the same point once again. What if Viv said that it's okay to ship gay Angel with woman. She doesn't have authority to say shit like that.

Queerplatonic relationships

I can't tell you not to do it I don't think he would be necessary interested in it but for fuck sake do your research and try to understand what queerplatonic means before you use it as a cover to shamelessly ship him. Respect the fact that he is sex repulsed and touch averse and you're fine.

Why can't you just avoid it?

First of all I shouldn't have to. Alastor's orientation should be respected in the fandom like any other orientation is. Second of all I've tried. I tried to only look up AroAce Alastor tag I've blocked over 80 people on tumblr alone (I just counted) to avoid to see anything that could trigger me and I'm not talking about slightly shippy posts or fanarts I'm talking about full blown disregard towards his orientation. Guess what it didn't work!

Archive of our own where do I start. I've used this website for over a decade and I could probably count days I didn't go there on my fingers. I'm fluent in AO3 I know which tags I should block. I know how to skim thorough the summary and tags to see if I'm interested. I've seen shit I'm a shipper I've been on ao3 for ten years but never had to mentally prepare myself to face queerphobia as I click on the tab.

Just use aro/ace Alastor tag.

I do and let me tell you people can't tag for shit or they just pretend to be clueless at this point. Besides see this?

there is more ff with Alastor/reader (disgusting) than there is Alastor with his canon orientation and to play the devils advocate for arophobic people there is more Angel/Alastor then his stated in the show sexuality. I understand that fandom goes back before the show was aired but Viv confirmed his orientation back then too.

Summary

I could go on and on bout different issues and maybe I will in the future but I'm not wasting anymore of this weekend on it. I'm ready to answer any questions as long as they are respectful.

I'm aware that he is a fictional character, it doesn't affect him in any way whatsoever but it does affect aromantic and asexual people keep it in mind.

If there are any mistakes grammar related I'm not sorry I'm fluent in English (not my first language) but I took 3h nap in between and I'm sleep deprived.

Have a nice day.

[lying-on-floors]

Just because a character is aro/ace does not mean they can't form close bonds, or have romantic partners, or have sex.

Aro/ace is an identification, but it's also a spectrum.

Aromantic is an identity and spectrum. Some aromantic people feel no romance and have no desire for the intimacy that comes with romantic relationships. Other aromantic people may feel the desire for the intimacy that romance brings, but have never felt romantic feelings, or they have, but they can't distinguish between platonic feelings and romantic feelings. Some aromantic people may only feel romance once they've formed a close bond with another person. Some aromantic people, like myself, have not really felt romance but has a desire to and hopes that, one day, they can find someone, who is patient and loving and willing, to help them figure it out. And some aromantic people fluctuate, from feeling romance to not feeling it, at all.

Asexuality is an identity and spectrum. Some asexual people are touch averse and have no desire for sexual activites, alone or with others. Other asexual people may feel the desire for sexual activities but have no attraction to another person. Some asexual people are attracted to someone but just don't care for sex. Some asexual people do feel attraction and is okay with having sex with another person but they have no desire to be touched by their partner. Some asexual people may fluctuate, from feeling attraction to not feeling any. And some asexual people only feel attraction once they've formed a close bond with that person.

There are so many more identities within the aro/ace spectrum but these are just a few, and just because someone is aromantic, does not mean they're asexual and vice versa. Sometimes, someone is both aromantic and asexual but that does not invalidate them or their experiences.

So, you can headcanon whatever you like about a canonically aro/ace character, but PLEASE do not erase their aro/ace identity all together.

I would like to clarify that this post is not specifically about zolu, and I have no problem with people going against popular headcanons, it just got me thinking about aro/ace erasuer, which as an aro/ace person, truly effects me and I just, hate to see it. I would also like to add, I understand Luffy isn't canonically aro/ace, it's a popular headcanon, it just reminded me of my feelings on aro/ace erasure. If you look at my profile, this post has been in my head for a little while. Sorry for any misconceptions. /Gen

[demigods-posts]

thoughts on people shipping Hunters of Artemis despite the fact rick himself pretty much confirmed the fact they were all on the aro/ace spectrum and the fact it's against Artemis' rules to not date?

Disclaimer: I'm not aro/ace, so if anything I say is wrong or offensive, please correct me.

It's my understanding that since asexuality and aromanticism exist on a spectrum, it's possible for someone who identifies as aromantic or asexual to be in varying kinds of relationships. Therefore, I don't think it's wrong to include them when shipping characters. However, if you are referring to aro/ace erasure, then I am against that because people who identify with aromanticism or asexuality are valid and deserve to be accurately represented.

[jugsjules]

Tbh I think part of the reason I get so spitting mad about the constant conflation of aromanticism and asexuality is because I’m specifically aromantic bisexual.

Bisexuality already has so much history of being erased and excluded that any hint of that erasure coming through in people’s (mis)understanding/perceptions of aromanticism makes me wanna pick up cars off the street and start chucking them.

(Hella shoutout to any bi aces who feel the same—molotov cocktails are on me)

[pigidin]

I know well it won't ever happen, but it'd be great if on FIRST (official) Hazbin (as a show, not a pilot) pride, Al's finally confirmed to be AROACE.

The rejection of Al's orientation in this fandom is crazy and I'm not speaking of fanon, but CANON.

I'm SO tired of people saying "but he was just confirmed to be asexual!", "but the moment with rosie!", "what amir said was incorrect and he apologized for it!", "what faustisse said isn't canon anymore!" COZ-

Viv literally heavily implied on one of the streams Al's aroace, saying:

Oh no, I'm going to destroy the ship. I can't say. I don't want to ruin the fun for everybody. That's why I've been very quiet on whether or not Al is aromantic.

If I give a real canon answer [..] I don't wanna ruin anyone's fun

She knows the CANON answer to that question but doesn't say it aloud coz the canon somehow ruins fanon fun.

I really don't get why viv was then so eager to give everyone right to do whatever the hell they want but never confirm Al as aroace in the same. damn. fear. to ruin shipper's fun. Like? Bro if you gave the opportunity to do everything why hide what will change nothing? People will still ship, people will still play with his orientation (which is valid as long as you're respectful), but you know what it will give instead? Damn REPRESENTATION, damn CONFIRMATION, the damn thing your show is supposed to give.

Not to be rude, but then Husk being pan is non-canon as well (that's faustisse who said he is). And then media literacy is dead once again coz it's obvious Rosie was talking about dating Charlie not bout Al f=cking her. I might sound like overreacting but it's viv herself who is the reason of the war.

Screw fanon, canon should be stated by you, as a creator, giving the canon answers, coz you provide the show, you provide the characters, you provide the plot and lore and you are the one who created the characters the way they are. You can't really affect what people do with them, how they interpret them and how they create stories of them, but you are responsible for giving clearly defined information especially if it plays part in representation of the repressed group of real people.

Coz having actual confirmed aromantic IS a big achievement for us. Forcing him into the closet and taking away the bits of rep we could have is, honestly, a highly unwise choice. Saying fanon is a wide playground on which canon can have minimum influence but never giving specific canon statements is just utterly hypocrite. Aaand hiding the fact that someone is meant to not have any relationships for the sake of fanon (which is somehow much more important than real-life issues of literal erasure of aromantics) is pretty aphobic ngl.

[skygemspeaks]

A conversation that tumblr probably isn't ready to have: two folks of the same gender in history who lived and died together isn't proof that they were in a romantic relationship on its own**. Insisting that there's no possible other explanation makes you complicit in aromantic/asexual erasure.

Could they have been in a sexual or romantic relationship? Sure, that's definitely a possibility. But could they also just as easily have had a queerplatonic relationship? Absolutely.

**Please take special note of this point beford trying to tell me "oh but there were love letters between the two of these people talking about how much they want to fuck!" because those are not the instances i'm talking about. I'm talking more about situations like that one famous tweet/tumblr post about two women who were buried together as "medical classmates" where we don't know anything else about them.

Situations like this is why umbrella terms like "queer" are lovely and very useful to have. It allows us to claim them as ours without alienating parts of our community.

[aspartameabuser69]

Why do people say alastor ships are asexual erasure? Alastor is never once said to be aromantic. ASEXUAL PEOPLE CAN BE IN RELATIONSHIPS. I AM ASEXUAL. I like charlastor because it’s cool to me! And episode 5 is such a retcon. And the whole “shipping Charlie with someone who isn’t Vaggie is lesbian erasure.” SHE’S BISEXUAL. THAT’S BISEXUAL ERASURE. JESUS CHRIST. Charlastor isn’t incest, I literally disregard episode 5 because it’s a retcon. Vivziepop is just bad at writing, I’m not a proshipper. And Charlastor is a lesbian ship. They are both women to me. Fuck you Vivziepop. I disrespect your limbo.

[regretevator-confessions]

hot take that we should stop assuming people with commitment issues are aro. As someone on the aromantic spectrum a lot of people in this fandom have problems with assuming Pest and Mach are aromantic when none of the such has been confirmed (Pest is ace-spec and Mach just isn't fond of relationships, in no way does that make Mach aromantic.) I like to headcanon that Mach simply has issues with relationships due to abandonment with her family and being used to being alone, maybe even just pref being alone.

But also.. its not ?? WRONG?? to ship aromantic characters? As someone whos on the aromantic spectrum its NOT erasure aslong as you acknowledge that character does struggle with romantic feelings and don't completely erase it! now s//xualizing asexual characters is obviously different but in the case of the aromantic sense aslong as the creator doesn't clarify they arent comfortable with the character being shipped or like that the character can feel love (Kinda like how from example, ink sans cannot. i cant think of anyone else atm) i think its fine!! people like to use the stereotype that aro people never find someone they love and just never find relationships :/ which, yeah, sometimes, but also sometimes they do!! and thats valid!! ^^ i think that should be less stigmatized.

.

[jester-likes-sharks]

first radiodust (i think it was called) and now radioapple. IN THE SHOW THEY SAID ALASTOR IS ASEXUAL. He is confirmed to be AROMANTIC. i can get a lot more examples from other shows but characters being aroace is not a little trait you can take out if you want. it’s like shipping a gay man with a woman just “because it’s fun”. it’s not fun to the people who are starving for representation and getting the only little bit we have diminished by fandoms. I understand that some of the shipping is not erasure (qpr, platonic, acknowledging that it’s a spectrum, etc.) but a lot of the stuff i’ve seen doesn’t clarify that or even have it in mind. shipping aroace characters isn’t wrong per say but you have to still be respectful of it and lo and behold some people just aren’t doing that