#and again we are only talking about narrative for the most part ship who you want i dont care

[noperopesaredope]

I recently watched a video talking about what your favorite Mouthwashing ship says about you (spoilers: most of them are bad), and one thing I explained in the comments that I think is important to explain to certain people (in general with a lot of fandoms, tbh) is that a lot of shippers in the fandom understand that these relationships would not be good and are in fact deeply unhealthy, but perhaps that's the point.

Like, most of the Jambone x Curly shippers I've seen don't like the ship because it's cute or good, but because it's narratively interesting and would be extremely compelling to see. I honestly get it even if I'm not super interested in it. Jildo and Curly already have an extremely interesting and unhealthy relationship dynamic. It is heavily implied that JarJar acts very emotionally abusive towards Curly, belittling and manipulating him frequently and likely damaging his confidence and ability to stand up to people. But he is also obsessed with Curly in a very fascinating way.

Meanwhile, Curly has not only been friends with Jimbo for a long time, but has a fatal flaw of being too loyal and passive for his own good. As many have said, Curly is like a golden retriever in both a good and bad way.

Curly is Jackass' victim and enabler at the same time, which is why he is one of my favorite characters in the game. You both feel bad for him but also understand that he really fucked up and a lot of stuff is his fault. His most endearing traits are also some of his worst traits. Again, the golden retriever comparison is very accurate. He is friendly and loyal and believes the best in everyone (and very cute), but that loyalty and belief in everyone are also his fatal flaws.

He enables Jello because he thinks that there is good in him, and like a dog, he sees no wrong with most people no matter what they do (until it's far too late). I can't remember the fic I saw this in, but one good line I saw once was something along the lines of: "You believe in people and see nothing wrong with them no matter what until they abandon you at the park in the middle of the night." Curly sees no wrong in his friend because that's the type of person he is, and while it can be cute, it's also dangerous.

It can also often be detrimental to himself, as we see Juice be cruel to him as well, yet Curly excuses it as just Jizz being Jizz. He doesn't see anything wrong with the way he is treated, making him become desensitized to Jive's behavior and seeing it as not a big deal.

I think Curly's status as both victim and enabler would be interesting under the context of an abusive romantic relationship. There is an even greater power imbalance present, and Jojo may do a lot worse things as a result and be a lot more controlling and manipulative. He could be more physically and verbally abusive, make more threats, and even be sexually abusive (since he is canonically a rapist already, and hates Curly more than he hates Anya, thus he would probably put more aggressive hate into it). The whole relationship would be horrible and disturbing, but also interesting to see.

I love fics exploring their unhealthy friendship, so seeing it as an unhealthy romantic relationship could be even crazier to see.

~~~~~~

There's also the nuances of Anya x Curly. Most people ship it specifically in the context of AUs where Curly actually stands up for Anya and helps her out. Their dynamic as characters could be really cute, especially if he puts in the work to protect her.

I personally find the potential of post-crash Anya x Curly to be interesting as hell. I generally find their non-romantic dynamic post-crash to be interesting enough on its own, but I also think it could be absolutely crazy if they developed romantic feelings because those feelings would develop from some really unhealthy places for the most part.

I see Anya as someone who still holds some resentment towards Curly, but also sees herself in him and feels he doesn't deserve what happened to him. Maybe at one point seeing him go through something similar to what she went through might feel a little cathartic, but anything after that is too much to her. She is also his primary caretaker and a nurse, so she feels responsible for his wellbeing and wants to take care of him. She also seems to read and talk to him a lot, which probably feels nice because she can have some company while also being safe because Curly is not in a position to be able to hurt her. Anya doesn't exactly develop proper feelings for him per say, but she still uses him as a bit of an emotional crutch of sorts and becomes very attached to him because of it.

Meanwhile, Curly feels deeply guilty for not helping Anya and feels she deserves better. He believes she has no reason to care for him, but chooses to anyway, and thus he is extremely grateful towards her, possibly idolizing her to a certain degree. He slowly develops his own weird feelings, seeing himself as unworthy of her kindness and wanting the best for her, while also being dependent on her, even if it's in a more direct way.

They never get together or even realize that they themselves have feelings for each other since those feelings are #messy, but do form a weird codependent relationship of sorts. I've seen some cool fanart of Anya hugging/holding onto post-crash Curly, and it made me think about the potential this whole dynamic has and how unhealthy it could be, both for Anya and Curly. I believe they would not work out or be healthy (though probably better than Jazzy x Curly), but could be interesting narratively.

~~~~~~

Basically, what I'm trying to explain is that a lot of people don't ship certain Mouthwashing ships because they think it's good or want to romanticize it, but because it is narratively compelling and can explore complex dynamics more.

[moralesmilesanhour]

AND ANOTHER THING! Going off of my tags on my previous post, outside of me just thinking they're cute I also feel like flowerbyte works better for me purely on a narrative level. One of my biggest pet peeves esp for action movies is when the romantic subplot takes over like half the story without proper development. It doesn't matter WHO it is or how much I like the characters individually I will literally fast forward through every romantic scene if it feels shoehorned in. It makes it so tedious you don't even understand. (Haterism ahead. Well not really 'hate' just mild irritation really. this is looong):

So let's look at Gwen and Miles' relationsip. We start ITSV with Miles basically having a one-sided crush on Gwen. By the end of the film they had just agreed to be friends and have known each other for maybe like a week tops, and *maybe* Gwen reciprocates but it's not extremely clear. Whatever occurs between them in between ITSV and ATSV, we don't see (it's implied that they haven't even seen each other at all for obvious reasons so. oof).

But then we jump into ATSV, and suddenly they're swinging into the sunset talking about how they're "the same"...? Besties. Friends. Niece and nephew. Neither of you know each other dfghjkl

Then the wholeee rest of their scenes together is just the film trying desperately convince us through the music, framing, and even other characters' dialogue that there is romantic (notice how i specify ROMANTIC) tension between these two kids that is just so thick you could cut through it with a butter knife. I'm sorry, but is this tension in the room with us right now...? But okay movie.

Now, compare that to the scene in ATSV where Miles and Margo first bump into each other. They're able to establish romantic chemistry almost IMMEDIATELY! One look and a 'hey'. That's all it fuckin' took! They *both* like each other and it's clear as day.

Then right after, Margo is given a quick implied backstory that instantly gives her and Miles a reason to relate to each other that isn't (necessarily) just about them both being Spider-Man (because, in Margo's words, they're ALL Spider-Man and this means you need more than that to form a genuine connection). Neither of them feel like they can be themselves because their environment at home doesn't allow for it, even without the secret identity. Bada-bing bada-boom instant connection in under 5 minutes and I am still awake by the end of it.

Then, finally, we get a scene that shows that they can, to some extent, trust each other. Margo only just met this dude a few scenes ago, but she immediately goes against Miguel's wishes knowing the consequences and attempts to send him back home because her convictions are stronger than her loyalty to Spider Society. Just that act alone makes her a better ally to Miles than like, half the cast at this point.

...And that creates a bit of a dilemma if Gwiles is meant to be endgame.

As literally everyone and their mother have pointed out by now, Gwen is objectively a bad friend to Miles in this film. But...I would also argue that there are very few instances outside of combat in either film where she's even a *good* friend. And that's sort of the point, isn't it? Gwen has been terrible at friendship for the majority of the time we spend with her because she's traumatized from literally murdering the last good friend she had. Then her dad tried to shoot her. Then Miguel-- you know how it goes. She clearly has a long way to go before even a healthy *friendship* with Miles can start to develop. So that leaves me with a few questions:

A) Why did we wait until the last scene of the SECOND FILM for her to finally decide to be a good friend

B) Why didn't they just give Miles and Gwen more scenes together where they actually get to know each other if their relationship is now so important to the story, and:

C) If Gwen's whole journey is about her inability to maintain strong friendships...Why the FUCK is she the love interest then???

Either we all just got baited, or we are now going to have to spend a decent portion of BTSV watching Gwen try to salvage a friendship that was barely even that developed to begin with, convince the guy whose trust she just lost that she would ALSO make a good girlfriend i guess, and all the while there is now another potential love interest that is clearly, *according to the movie itself*, the better option (or so it seems for now). So like...Where do we go from here?? It just feels like a clumsy narrative decision. And if they do the misogynistic ass 'cat-fight' between two female characters over the main guy I will literally commit a felony. So yeah that's where my head is at right now thank you for reading all the way through my tangent over pixels on a screen sorry everybody

[cherrymoonvol6]

.

[lurkingshan]

10 Things I Love About Triage

I am extraordinarily late to this party but I am here to scream about Triage, a show which I started on a whim after a stray comment from @incandescentflower and subsequently finished in two sittings. This drama has been on my list forever (I didn't watch it live because the distribution was wacky) and then it just kept getting overlooked as I fought to keep up with the deluge of Thai BL coming at us at all times. But I am very glad I finally hunted it down and made the time and I would like to tell you why!

Hello Again, Dr. Sammon

I am on record as a Sammon fan. She is one of the best writers working in Thai BL and she has a knack for mystery and suspense. Her narratives are always really well constructed with tight plotting and smart character work, and Triage is no exception. This story feels confident, steady, and complete in a way few Thai BLs do.

The time travel rules are blessedly consistent

Part of what makes the story sing is it's a time travel plot that actually gets the particulars right. In a time loop, the details are everything, and this show understands that. The series of events are consistent, the rules of the time travel mechanics are clearly explained, and when our protagonists learn something new, it always lines up with something we'd gotten hints about before or gives us new context for old information. There are no loose threads in this show.

My boy Tin is going through it

Tin is a fantastic protagonist. He starts the show disillusioned with his work and hilariously grumpy about this time loop situation--he is a busy ER doctor and he does not have time for this--but as he starts to piece together how the loop works he gets more methodical in his approach, and eventually becomes emotionally invested in his mission to save Tol. Tin felt really well-calibrated in that he was smart and he tried all the things you would be shouting at the screen for him to try, but he's still a human being with flaws and insecurities and so he makes mistakes, learns, and has to try again. The show really successfully put us in the frustration with him.

Tol makes for an interesting damsel

Because he's kind of an asshole! Tol is rude and disrespectful when he first meets Tin, he hangs around with some truly awful bullies, he treats Rit like garbage, and he's all around an arrogant dick. Until he isn't. I like the choice to make the focus of our mission such a difficult character, not only because it makes Tin's challenge that much harder, but also because it invites us to consider the reasons why someone might be behaving the way he is and whether they can be redeemed.

This show has everything: action, romance, and agony

It's truly an emotional rollercoaster all the way through, and you can't relax for a moment. The pacing is relentless through most of the show, and even as a bond develops between Tin and Tol and they begin a tentative romance, danger is lurking around every corner. As soon as these boys started making out in episode 9 I knew something awful was coming for me and IT SURE DID.

Jinta, the ultimate frenemy

On that note let's talk about Jinta, my nemesis!! Jinta is some kind of unspecified deity/whimsical god and the one who appears to be responsible for putting Tin and Tol in this loop. Is he trying to help them? Is he trying to torture them? I definitely think it's both! He seems to delight in showing up to taunt Tin as he struggles to figure out how to get through to Tol, and when it's Tol's turn on the merry-go-round he sends him to the darkest timeline for his high stakes final attempt to save Tin just because he can. I love/hate you, sir!

Sing and Gap and the darkest timeline

Speaking of which, can we talk about how appropriate it is that Sing and Gap are a couple only in the darkest timeline? I don't know if people were shipping this for real during the live watch, but I definitely was not and so I started cackling when we got to the worst possible timeline and Sing was suddenly calling Gap his boyfriend. Sammon, you are hilarious and I salute you.

Fantastic side characters

Let's talk about the sides I did love. First of all, aside from his weird aggressive flirting/not flirting thing with Gap, I actually did like Sing's friendship with Tin a lot. I also loved the hospital gang who were around to alternately tease and help Tin, most especially Toy and Fang. Toy is a sweetheart and a gossip who never misses a trick, and Fang is an actual badass who first cracked the case with that evil doctor and saved Tin's life. They are fabulous. Rit was also an excellent character with a lot of complexity and he added some much needed depth to the school storyline (does anyone else think he was basically the proto-DFF Non?). And while Mai and Heart were not my favorite people, I did appreciate that the show gave them a sympathetic portrayal instead of making them evil villains (we had the organ harvesters for that).

That beautiful clocktower

I must give a shoutout to this gorgeous clocktower featured in several important scenes. I got so excited every time it showed up. Fun fact: in the first clocktower scene I was like oh hey I recognize that from gifs, but it can't be that scene because it's too early for a kis--TIN WHAT ARE YOU DOING! (I was right, it was too early for a kiss and Tol was Big Mad but bless you for going for it anyway, Tin).

The romance is balanced and rootable

And on that note, let me give a shoutout to the romance part of this story for actually feeling balanced. This is not an epic swoony love affair, but more a story of two people putting in the time to understand and empathize with each other. Sometimes in these kind of time loop stories the romance can end up feeling very one-sided because one character is holding all the knowledge and all the cards. But in this show we have the neat trick of Tol taking over the loop to try to save Tin in the final arc, which means he got to go through a similar process of getting to know the darkest version of his lover and figuring out how to get through to him. I was delighted by all the events of the long loop playing out again, but this time with Tin being the obstinate one. Tol got a taste of his own medicine and it left me feeling like they were both equally invested in this relationship.

TL;DR: If you haven't watched this yet, you really should! It's a fast binge and a great time with some Thai BL favorites. It's unfortunately still not available for international streaming, but it's very easy to find grey now and it's worth the effort. Go forth!

[powerfulblob]

puts on my clown hat

behold, as requested: The Trans Franky Essay. Like most of this is still jot notes and I wrote this when half-asleep so like. I don’t know

Please don’t shoot me.

Section 0: Most importantly...

Due to the Somerton stuff, I really am trying my best not to plagarize.

Unlike TikTok user @theyboss._.franky, I’m not planning to talk about if he’s trans based on physical features, personality, etc.

I’m here to talk about the narrative in particular, and allegory.

also kudos to @punkitt-is-here

[ID: A screenshot of an X post by @punkittdev that reads “this is also partially why i am a franky one piece trans man truther” It features Franky, a cyborg with a shirt that reads “I HRT”.with a sun between the words “I” and “HRT” Franky is a tall man with tan skin and blue hair, and has part of his arms replaced with blue metal with a star at the end. end ID]

Section 1: Cyborgs are inherently trans

I’m literally just going to link The transgender cyborg: an inexhaustive primer because the article does a much better job than I can, but to summarize:

Trans people are not only cyborg-adjacent because of the transphobes who call us that, but primarily because we are used in the same way cyborgs are in text: As a talking point, a disruptive metaphor about humanity as a whole.

That brings us onto the next place...

Section 2: Cyborgs are extra trans in this case.

The reason why I latched onto this in the first place is this character’s backstory.

Franky, who eventually becomes the Straw Hat’s shipwright, starts as a joke character in the Water Seven Arc.

He’s a 40-ish year old man who runs around in a speedo and shoots lasers at people, making a living off of dismantling ships.

However, as more information is revealed, the story starts to humanize and give him a backstory.

quotes from Chapter 358:

“My body got wrecked and parts of it weren’t working anymore... So I transformed myself using scrap metal. It’s how I survived!” 

“Waste wood, scrap iron... I fit right in. First I’ve got to... ... Do something about this useless body of mine!” 

What do these have in common? Retrofitting the self, and rebuilding the body. I think there’s something trans there but IDK

Deadnames (partially joking here): As said by another character “Cutty Flam of Tom’s Workers is dead. As long as you don’t use that name... ... There’s nothing connecting us”  (for context, Franky was changing his name to evade government capture, but shhh let’s just pretend we’re talking about deadnames)

Actual Section 2: The Boats are trans now

speaking of the self as a construct...

I think it would be giving Oda too much credit for doing this on purpose.

But, he also accidentally created one of the best analogies I’ve ever heard for gender identity and against gender essentialism:

And of course, it has to be boats.

chapter 353: “Franky, there’s no such thing as blueprints for a pirate ship!! If the sailors who board that ship run up a skull-and-crossbones, then it’s a pirate ship. If they fly a seagull flag, it’s a navy ship. Build whatever you want to build, Franky.”

Like again: It’s the idea that there’s no instructions for a person, it’s what you decide to create out of oneself?

Alright. So, in terms of most manga, he actually does a rather good job. One Piece is primarily a series about misfits and outcasts: The series is goofy and over-the-top as a rule. So, one could argue the extreme way in which he portrays trans people up until the Wano arc is just a part of the series.

yeah idk

[elainsgirl]

you know, im actually tired of azriel's bonus chapter being talked 24/7 like its the most major thing ever. I never seen people get worked up on a bonus chapter that didnt even happen at the end of the book! acosf is the reason why this fandom is so toxic!

Hey anon 🫶

I definitely agree. Bonuses aren’t meant to be given such significance as Azriel’s bonus is given. At this point, His bonus seems to be more important then the foreshadowing in ACOSF it self.

“The shadows were ready to strike Nesta when she insulted Elain during their fight? Doesn’t matter because In Azriel’s bonus they disappear therefore that’s the only proof I need to claim that they absolutely despise and fear her 🥸”

Its a BONUS chapter, that too it was only part of a limited special edition. Let’s be realistic for a second - if someone hadn’t posted it online for everyone to see, those of us who hadn’t brought the SE, we would not know the contents of the bonus. If someone hadn’t kept up with SJM and JUST picked up acosf after reading acotar but is unaware of any bonuses, they too would not know about what occurred in Azriel’s bonus, why? Because its information that is not required to know. Its just an EXTRA. That confirms some suspicions in SF. I can go into detail to prove the irrelevancy of the bonus but ACOSF already tells you everything you need to know for the next book. I hadn’t read Azriel’s bonus until two years ago. Before reading it - elriel, much like Nessian, were blatantly obvious. After reading it? Elriel is still endgame. The reason the bonus is so talked about is due to the fact an entire ship relies on it. Gwynriel’s do not have anything in acosf to prove their ship, its just a bunch of out of context scenes and dialogues that aren’t in any way romantic or foreshadowing. Add in the bonus and GA have something to grasp onto even though it contradicts the book and well…the bonus itself lmfao. Then you have eluciens using the bonus as some concrete proof elriel is toxic and a future abusive relationship. That Azriel is an incel who only wants Elain superficially and Elain is just a little, clueless child who walks around lying to people about what she wants.

Antis CLUTCH onto the bonus as most of their arguments and claims use it as “proof” for whatever anti elriel bs they want to spread. But their points only make sense with the bonus, not without which tells you all you need to know about how valid their arguments are.

Feysands bonus is not talked about bcs it easily disproves gwynriel/elucien. Wings and Ember is only used as a way to show how “toxic” Cassian is otherwise its kept under wraps bcs once again, it disproves antis takes. If you had something that dismissed your entire ships within a couple of lines - ofc you’d avoid it like the plague. Its only Azriels bonus that can give them some hope that their worst nightmare won’t come true. That too, the hope is given after they twist and turn the scenes to fit their narratives.

It’s so important to understand elriels bonus sorry, Azriel’s bonus happens during acosf and not after. Its not the end of the book, after the bonus - there is no change or shift in the dynamic between Gwyn and Azriel. They remain as your usual mentor/mentoree duo. Even more important to remember is in regards to Gwynriel, nothing in the bonus is mentioned. Not their session, not the “spark”, not the necklace. Absolutely nothing. Why? Because it is irrelevant. Yet we get told about Azriel’s mood being off which relates to the elriel part of the bonus directly paralleling Cassian after his bonus w Nesta. Because THAT is relevant.

YEP. The fandom was toxic pre-acosf but it’s nothing compared to now. Unless you’re surrounding yourself with content you like and want to see - you can’t just enjoy general fandom spaces anymore.

Acosf brought up:

Anti Feysand agenda

Nesta vs inner circle

critique of the IC

Pro Tamlin apologists to the point of invalidating Feyre’s trauma

The infamous ship war

Anti Nessian vs pro Nesris

Readers opinion being pushed more then Authors intent.

I hope after Elains book - the fandom goes back to being semi-toxic again and more tolerable/enjoyable then it is now.

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

Octavia Is Sidelined So Much In Favor Of Stolitz

Despite being used as an example of how Stolas is really a good person and father, I do notice overtime her importance in the series has dwindled. Seriously, despite how the narrative wants us to think she is the treasured jewel of his life the execution would have you say that her father is more distracted by his boy toy due to how Vivziepoop has overemphasized the Stolitz ship.

Take for example is "Seeing Stars" where he neglects his daughter and breaks his promise to see the event he promised years ago, because he's so wrapped up in his divorce and even goes to insult her mother in front of her (even though he's said in the past he's tried to shield his daughter from the ugly parts of his and Stella's relationship). However, now that he's divorcing he doesn't hesitate to be as ugly with Stella as possible which shows how really good of a father he is. Also when she goes missing despite saying that Blitzo's dick isn't enough to quell Stolas's anger when it's his daughter is involved... well it actually goes like that, because both Blitzo and Stolas can't help but flirt and be flustered around each other this whole episode. Instead of focusing on his daughter, he again is on Blitzo's dick and even worse his daughter has to forgive him for neglecting her.

Most egregious one of the them is at the end of "Western Energy" where we have the emphasis on how this affects Stolas and Blitzo's relationships especially those texts talking about their fall about Ozzie's. However, we never get focus on how Octavia felt after her father fucking almost bit the dust, because in the next episode that Stolas is in he's okay and again you would think he would be injured a bit more to show how serious Striker is. But nope due to Vivziepoop remembering he's a powerful demon, he recovers in a day and we don't see Octavia at least be escorted to the hospital to see him because again Octavia is only there when she's a tool to make him look better and not her own character.

And now we get to the music video of "Just Look My Way" where Octavia's mentions in it are scrubbed in favor of Blitzo which again shows how the narrative is favoring his boy toy over his own fucking daughter who is supposed to be the center of his world and not this person he's given up so much for. Seriously, it's why if Octavia appears again I will not take the narrative seriously because we know that despite all claims that her father will get distracted from being a parent and ogle over Blitzo because he's a selfish pos and yet Octavia will be the one who has to learn to tolerate his bs because he's got the author's favoritism.

I really at the first thought that Stolas relationship with his daughter was sweet, but then I realize like so many else it really lost it's potential once you realize that Octavia is just a prop to artificially make it seem like Stolas is a good father when in actuality he's selfishly putting her needs above hers in a situation he caused. And it's a result of the fact that the writers are just using her as a writing tool and not a full character. She isn't needed until it affects Stolas and even then the Stolitz ship zaps everything around it so that any attention that Octavia is taken away. In a way, Octavia's fears were justified her father would run off and leave her because the writers are.

[williamrikers]

thoughts on the first episode of 4 minutes

everyone seems to be doing these now, so i'll join in bc i need a way to process what i just saw. putting this under a cut bc of spoilers—if you are familiar with boc's other works (especially kinnporsche and dff) i strongly recommend you try and avoid spoilers before watching! i watched this episode not knowing what was coming and That Scene made me shriek so loudly i probably scared my neighbours. ANYWAY.

okay let's get the big thing out of the way first. bas and fuaiz. HOLY SHIT. i was literally pausing the whole time to text my friend just "WHAT" over and over. They Did That.

let me break this down. boc took one look at the current politics regarding shipped couples in bl, said "yeah we're not doing that" and let bas and fuaiz have a whole entire sex scene. (while gmmtv, for example, let phuwin and thor not even touch lips on wednesday club because phuwin is part of a sacred Shipped Couple.) AND WHAT A SEX SCENE IT WAS!!! i am pretty sure we're gonna see everyone's bare ass over the course of this show. if this is what they're showing us in the very first episode for a couple who i'm guessing might not be endgame?? i mean. damn. what will jes and bible get up to??? mark me down as scared and horny 🫣

sex in boc shows is usually pretty explicit but in this case it's also. just a thing two people do? it's not romanticised. it's strongly implied that tonkla is having sex with korn because korn is paying him for it. korn is older and from an incredibly rich family, and while they were sweet with each other and obviously both enjoyed it, it did feel like a transaction a little bit.

what i found most impressive about this scene was that we got to see tonkla being left alone afterwards and then visibly dealing with that. we could watch him processing—i don't think i've ever seen this kind of post sex unhappiness depicted in bl, and it was so beautifully subtle! we don't yet know whether tonkla was just unhappy with how that particular evening went or if he is unhappy with the arrangement as a whole, but Something Is Definitely Up and it is so incredibly intriguing.

while we're talking about korn, the family dynamics in this show have me in a chokehold. bas and bible as brothers was a genius casting choice, they really do feel like siblings, they have a very sweet vibe together while korn is obviously worried about his younger brother. the whole deal with their father's illegal business of which korn only learns when he is supposed to manage it, the way korn treats his father in general, korn's mother having passed away shortly after his birth and korn being raised by his step-mother (great's mom), it's all so incredibly juicy. bas just has so much presence on screen, he is an absolutely wonderful actor and at this point, i am almost more invested in his story than in the main story 🤭

speaking of which: love that bible got one of his cats to act with him 😂😂 thailand's number one cat dad. but yeah, i am Intrigued, i am seated, i am so happy to be alive to witness this. i don't think there's a lot to be said on this yet bc most of the episode was exposition and great learning about his new powers, and also the narrative tying them to near-death experiences so that we know what we're dealing with going forward. (shout-out to job here bc it was so nice to see him again and also so weird to see him as a character who is actually smart haha 😂)

the production value of this show is off the charts. the first scene of great being pulled back in time was ABSOLUTELY BREATHTAKING. literally the best i've ever seen out of thailand. boc are taking their craft very seriously and it is just such a joy to watch.

also, the numbers everywhere! it got to the point that i was like, oh of COURSE she is in room number 4, WHERE ELSE?? 😂😂

i am so seated for this show. like i cannot express how seated i am. BRING IT ON, BE ON CLOUD.

[hiorintruther]

An Updated ‘Reasons Why I Ship Hiorin’ — Because It’s Been Ages Since I Made The First One And I’ve Had More Thoughts (and we got more moments!)

Aka: can you tell this ship makes me mentally unwell?

Hi again! It’s been a while. I did make one of these long posts a while back outlining why I choose to ship hiorin even though they’ve barely interacted and on the surface don’t look like they’d make sense at all. Since then, hiorin has gained quite a few shippers in the fandom and I keep thinking about the ship, especially with the Bastard Munchen vs PXG game FINALLY giving us some new crumbs. Unsurprisingly, ever since making the first post I’ve also had a lot more ideas about the dynamic, its potential, some more connections between them that I never touched on before, etc… and rather than editing the other post I thought it would be easier to just make a new one.

Some stuff I go over here might be familiar from the first post. I want this to be a kind of hub for any and all of my hiorin interpretations, analysis, trivia, headcanons, ‘theories’ (which I don’t think will be canon but the narrative potential for them is through the roof) and anything else I think is relevant to the ship. Feel free to jump around and read whatever is most interesting for you. Hiorin is a ship that, for me, is built on mountains of untapped potential. I just want to bring that potential to light all in one place.

Note: for this post I’ll only use information that has been written by Kaneshiro, drawn by Nomura or Sanomiya, or has otherwise been green-lit by Kaneshiro as canon. Merch collabs, voice actor QnAs, the PWC game etc… for me do not count as canon and I won’t use them. Also, the 10-image limit is biting my ass so my formatting for certain bits might be a bit all over the place. Apologies.

So without further ado. Let’s start! Enjoy the yap sesh!

Part 1 — The Manga Canon

Hiorin get their (very sparse and brief) interactions mostly from the Third Selection Arc (chapters 87-108) and the U20 arc (chapters 109-151). We’re also recently getting some new moments in the BM vs PXG match (chapters 250-present).

First off: the tryouts. It’s implied here that Hiori and Rin have never met, as Hiori notices Isagi’s response to Rin and asks if Isagi knows who Rin is. Rin also doesn’t acknowledge Hiori in any way here, so we can presume they’re strangers (although some shippers like to headcanon that they met during the first selection).

That being said during the match, after Isagi has been thoroughly shut down by Karasu, Rin turns his attention to Hiori as a teammate to help him get the ball up the field. Rin has never seen Hiori play before (as far as we know). They’ve never even talked. They’re barely getting familiar with each other’s play styles. And yet, they immediately link up to form a clean back and forth that optimises Rin’s play style. In fact, this duo helps Rin score 1 goal, and it would have helped Rin score 2 had Shidou not rudely interrupted the second.

It’s so deadly that Otoya has to intervene specifically to break them up, so that they can no longer continue their one-two passes up the field and threaten to go for another goal. (Also notice in this page below how as soon as the kickoff happens, Hiori is already running into position in the background. He understands what Rin wants to do).

Not only did Hiori and Rin naturally form a link-up, but Hiori was also fully capable of keeping up with Rin, something Nanase admitted he struggled with during this match and even Isagi was struggling with as well, since later on we see Isagi fail to intercept one of Hiori’s passes due to not being able to reach it in time (which presumably Rin would have been able to were he in Isagi’s position). So, from what we see of Hiori and Rin in this match, they’re on a similar wavelength in terms of skills, field vision and gameplay, and are naturally able to link up even as strangers. I’ll note here that neither of them were playing at full power — Hiori was playing on 0 motivation, and Rin was still utilising his Puppeteer play style instead of his Destroyer. More on this later in the ‘Headcanons’ section.

After the Tryouts, we next see them interact in the U20 match. We start with a brief callback to their tryouts link up in chapter 132, where Rin passes to Hiori. Hiori is acting as a relay between Isagi and Rin, which in my opinion would be a good way to utilise him after the NEL. Whether or not that’s how Kaneshiro chooses to use him in the future is anyone’s guess though.

The next big moment comes in chapter 140, after Shidou has kicked Rin in the face and the game has briefly paused. I think this is by far the most ‘iconic’ hiorin moment. While Isagi is analysing the previous play and Karasu is arguing with the ref, Hiori is the only one who actually checks on Rin. Even Bachira and Reo were right next to Rin and neither of them go to him. Hiori was further down the field but he moved to help Rin first. Not only is he gentle with and worried for Rin, but by some miracle Rin actually accepts his help! It feels almost out of character, given how angry Rin is for the rest of the match, but for this very brief moment he lets Hiori help him up and reassures him that he’s ‘fine’ (yeah sure buddy…).

For many this is the main ‘ooooooh’ moment with hiorin. But what if I told you it actually happens a second time this match? After Aiku goes rogue in chapter 142 and tries to score a goal, Rin ends up slide-tackling him to prevent it. And once again, if you look in the background of the panels following the interception in chapter 143, who is it helping Rin stand? It’s Hiori. And this time they actually hold hands!

The final hiorin moment in the U20 match comes soon after this in chapter 144, when Rin is about to enter his Destroyer mode. When Rin enters Destroyer mode, Hiori is in possession of the ball and so Rin steals it from him in a completely unpredictable move that had everyone stunned.

The U20 match moments, for many of us hiorin shippers, felt like the last time we’d ever see them properly interact. I at least had zero hopes for PXG. But oh boy was I wrong! Kaneshiro might not realise the dynamic he’s setting up with this duo but I’m gonna milk every interaction for what they’re worth! And so with that, I’ll bring you to the BM vs PXG match (note: currently still ongoing, so I’ll update this section as we get more moments). Since the U20 match, we’ve had some changes. The biggest one is Hiori’s personality. After going through his arc in Ubers, Hiori has become more outspoken and confident, playing into his ‘Ultra-Sadist’ style and being more than happy to speak his mind. He’s more argumentative and can whip up a good piece of trash talk (my gamer boy fr!). We see this on full display in chapter 251 when he completely shuts down Rin’s goal opportunity because Rin was too focussed on Isagi to see the bigger picture of the match. Hiori turns around, points at Rin, and tells him “if ya want a goal… come at me with an unpredictable script!”

Notice here how he isn’t simply putting Rin down for not being able to score. Hiori may be taunting Rin, perhaps getting over-confident, but he does still technically give Rin helpful advice. In a previous panel he explains how he was able to read Rin because Rin was too focussed on Isagi, and in combination with Hiori’s ‘unpredictable script’ line it forms some rather blunt and rude but nevertheless useful advice. Hiori is telling Rin exactly how to get past him and what Rin needs to do to improve. Notice the focus on unpredictability. I personally think this is a line foreshadowing Rin’s Destroyer mode, even if Hiori himself is unaware of it. Even if it’s not foreshadowing, Hiori’s advice is reasonable and Rin should listen to it.

The next moment we have of them together is from chapter 259, where Hiori is aided by Raichi to block Rin in a 2-person press, causing Rin to lose the ball. From a purely indulgent, shipping perspective, notice how Hiori’s and Rin’s legs are touching, their hands are on each other’s chests and they’re looking at each other. Raichi is just there lol.

Next we have chapter 270, where Rin has started to awaken his Destroyer and is barrelling his way through BM’s various players. Hiori is one of the players Rin gets past with ease. Rin gets past him with a rainbow flick, to which Hiori acknowledges Rin awakening by saying ‘he is good’. Note here that he is the only player on BM’s side to get actual dialogue in response to Rin overpowering them.

And as of right now, the latest interaction comes from chapter 273. Rin has entered Destroyer mode and has completely overwhelmed Hiori. Isagi actually says in this chapter that Rin has become someone he can’t analyse, a completely unreadable beast of a player. I think this means the ‘unpredictable script’ Hiori spoke of truly is the Destroyer, and Rin has finally been able to get past Hiori with it.

This may be it for their canon interactions, however it’s far from all the canon information we have about them that’s interesting for the dynamic. A big part of the hiorin ship is about looking at their individual information and drawing together similarities and/or parallels. While on the surface they seem very different, almost opposites, digging a little deeper reveals a lot of small coincidences about them that build up to make you realise that they’re a lot more similar than you might initially think.

Part 2 — Where Hiori and Rin Align

Analytical players. Both of them are capable of deeply analytical play styles that utilises field vision and high levels of technical skills. This way of playing doesn’t rely on brute strength or pure intimidation to get through the opponents’ defence, rather analysis, playing with and overcoming their opponents with strategy and out-playing their opponents with sheer levels of skill. This similarity is likely what led to them to be able to so easily link up when they first met. Rin is however also capable of being the Destroyer, which leads me to my second point below.

Sadism. Both are known sadists. Rin’s Destroyer mode is particularly sadistic, aiming to destroy in every way to the point where he will give up goal opportunities to destroy even more. In general, he revels in being at the top, destroying others under him. He’s open with his insults and destroys chaotically, looking for breaks in his opponents’ defence and completely tearing them down until there’s no hope of his opponents winning. Meanwhile Hiori is a self-proclaimed “ultra-sadist”. After his arc, he enjoys watching his opponents scramble to try and keep up with him only to be destroyed by his top-tier plays, especially in a ‘best play’ scenario with his chosen striker of the moment. He’s also not loyal to any one striker and will leave them behind if they’re not playing up to his standards or goal vision. Hiori’s sadism also manifests as him teasing his friends, as we see in chapter 241 when he jokingly teases Isagi for getting shipped with Kaiser by BLTV fans.

Sae connections. Rin’s connections to Sae are obvious, since they’re brothers and Sae is the cornerstone of Rin’s character arc. Hiori also has connections to Sae though. He’s been compared to Sae twice in-universe, once by Sendou in chapter 129 who said his passes had the same level of skill as Sae’s, and once by Yukimiya in chapter 241 who thinks Hiori’s ultra-sadist mindset is similar to Sae’s. In the Egoist Bible 2, Hiori states that he admires Sae as a player when answering the question ‘who has the best crossing skills’.

Replacements. In Rin’s light novel, he tells Sae that once Sae is gone, he’ll “find a replacement”. In chapter 239, Hiori tells Isagi that he won’t just be loyal to Isagi and will happily replace him with another striker should they be in a better position for Hiori’s vision.

They’re both gamers. Obviously we know Hiori is one. That’s been a big part of his character ever since we first met him. In his Egoist Bible profile, he states that he plays many genres, from JRPGs to rhythm games. However, Rin also plays video games, specifically horror games. We get this info from both the Egoist Bible and his prequel light novel, where it explains that he plays horror games to de-stress at night: (chapter 2) “… even games, should be chilling and scary. Playing horror games alone at night is quite thrilling”.

Horror, gore and zombies. As well as playing horror games to de-stress, it’s explained in the Egoist Bible and Rin’s light novel that he watches horror movies for the same reason: (chapter 2) “When he’s done, he watches a horror movie and then goes to bed. This is his daily routine. For some reason, since Sae has been gone, he only watches horror movies. Movies, videos …”. The light novel slightly expands on this to specify that he enjoys splatter films, as well as showing an illustration of him watching rather a gory zombie movie: (chapter 4) “Lately, he's been into splatter films. The one where a killer comes out with an electric saw and a big-ass ax, then blood splatters all over the place. The one where a killer chases you no matter how hard you try to escape, and if you get caught, you end up being dismembered. His heart is pounding, but he’s not the type to show on his face, so Rin watching the slaughter scene without any expression on his face is much more horrifying”. Likewise, Hiori is shown in chapter 206 playing a zombie shooter in which he imagines the zombies becoming his parents and he violently kills them. We see his inner monologue of this in his prequel light novel, showing the depths of how much he wants them to suffer: (chapter 6) “Before he knew it, in his imagination, his parents became zombies. His father and mother are coming towards him, laughing. He shoots without hesitation. Bang! Headshot. The bullet that entered the father's jaw blew off the back of his head. Bang! Bang! His mother's eyeballs pop out and there's a hole in her chest. He aims for vital spots with rapid fire, but they don't fall easily because they're zombies”. His Egoist Bible also confirms that he plays Dead By Daylight, which is a multiplayer horror game. Bonus point: Hiori’s favourite movie, Ready Player One, features an important series of scenes where the main characters have to explore a replica of the hotel from The Shining. The Shining is Rin’s favourite movie.

Solitude. Rin is ranked as the most anti-social member of Blue Lock in the Egoist Bible. He says he “doesn’t have time for lukewarm conversations” (although I do think on some level he longs for approval and love from someone, given how much he craves his brother’s attention). He is also one of the only characters who genuinely has no friends in Blue Lock. He tolerated Bachira for a time and trained Nanase begrudgingly, but no one is very close with him at all. Now, at a glance Hiori might seem far more social. He has a lot of friends and seems to enjoy hanging out with them. However, in his Egoist Bible entry it was revealed that his ideal type in a romantic partner is “someone who can leave me alone”. The wording he used — 放置し合えるん — seems to imply a reciprocal nature of this ‘leaving alone’, ie ‘you leave me alone, I’ll leave you alone’. Now tell me that arrangement wouldn’t work perfectly for Rin? Hiori is also shown in chapter 172 (which is before his character arc) spending time alone in the BM dorms while the others are out training. Furthermore, in Karasu’s ‘a day in Blue Lock’ in The Egoist Bible 2, he states that he and Hiori were in the communal bath together but did not talk or interact, and this was fine. While Hiori can enjoy socialising, he also needs plenty of time to himself to the point where it becomes a deal-breaker in a relationship for him.

Fetish. Hiori’s fetish according to the Egoist Bible is ‘fractured girl fetish’ and seems to refer to seeing injuries bandaged up (given that the actress he uses as an example wears a cast on her arm in the movie he’s referencing). Out of all the characters in Blue Lock, Rin is the one we’ve seen get injured multiple times, and in chapter 271 it was confirmed that this is a part of his nature. This was a part of him that was disapproved of by his parents and classmates, so Hiori actually liking it would be a massive relief.

Ochazuke (tea on rice). Rin’s favourite food according to the Egoist Bible is ochazuke, specifically taichazuke. In the Episode Rin extra chapter we see him going to enjoy some taichazuke at a traditional restaurant because he was hungry for ochazuke. When Hiori was asked in the Egoist Bible 2 what his favourite accompaniment for rice is, he replied that it’s the ochazuke brand Nagatanien.

Stripes. Rin’s casual outfits for both the Shibuya collab (designed by Nomura) and Episode Rin feature a striped/ribbed pattern. Likewise, Hiori’s casual pyjamas, childhood design and one of Nomura’s coaster designs feature him wearing striped clothing.

Egoist Bible rankings. In the Egoist Bible 2, they were ranked first and second most likely to have psychic powers. Hiori was also voted the best listener, meanwhile Rin was voted the worst.

Eyelashes. Both of them have long lashes. That’s kinda it for this one lol.

Water connections. Hiori’s favourite season is the rainy season and he has been referred to as ‘water coloured’ in the manga due to his hair colour (it means ‘cyan’ in Japanese — see point 14). Rin’s aura is water and he is regularly connected to the sea in his hometown of Kamakura.

Name kanji (yes, I’m in this deep). In Rin’s surname, the kanji 糸 means ‘thread/yarn’. In Hiori’s surname, the kanji 織 means ‘weaver’. Both of them have kanji relating to weaving, likely in relation to both Rin’s Puppeteer play style (and Sae’s insane control of the midfield), and Hiori’s way of ‘weaving’ together a best play through his skills (and his parents ‘weaving’ his life for him rather than letting him control it himself). To get even more conspiracy theorist-y, when Charles meets Hiori he calls Hiori “水色お兄さん” — literally ‘water-coloured big brother’, likely in relation to his hair colour because 水色 can also mean ‘cyan’. To keep it on the topic of water though, whose aura is made of water? That’s right. Rin’s! (yes I know this is really grasping at straws but I did say this post was for EVERYTHING hiorin).

A wild one here — dates. The exact age gap between Hiori and Rin is 9 months 9 days. 09/09 is Rin’s birthday.

Part 3 — Family Relationships: Love, Expectations and Abandonment

Rin and Hiori both have relationships with particular members of their family that are similar and also unique among the rest of the cast. For Rin, it’s his relationship with Sae. For Hiori, it’s his relationship with his parents.

To begin with Hiori, his parents only wanted a child who could fulfil their dream of being number one in the world at a particular sport. They held this expectation of him throughout his whole life, pretending to genuinely care about and love him when in reality all they wanted was for him to be the best. If he tried to step out of line, they’d become monstrous, as seen in his light novel: (chapter 2) “Can I take a day off from soccer tomorrow and go play with my friends?” As soon as he said this, the smiles disappeared from his parents’ faces. His mother looked very surprised, and then she made the scariest face he's ever seen. “......!” He doesn’t remember what she said. He just remembers that he was scolded terribly. After that, he was hugged tightly. “Hiori, you are born to be the best at soccer.” “You can play with other kids anytime you want.” “But if you don’t do soccer properly from now on, you will never be the best.” His mother was desperate. His father was behind her, looking sadly at Hiori. “Please, Hiori, trust us and play soccer.” Hiori felt that he had done something very wrong. … What should I do? I said something bad. I'm sorry. The air was stifling, as if he had been locked in a room full of needles. He felt like he would get hurt if he moved, so all Hiori could do was nod.” We also see the extent of this in chapter 206, when Hiori overhears his parents threatening to get a divorce if he isn’t the best. This makes him realise that if he doesn’t fulfil their expectations, his parents don’t want him. In essence, they would abandon him, letting their family fall apart and blaming it all on him.

With Rin, it’s a bit more complicated. His relationship with his older brother Sae is still pretty up in the air as to what really happened from Sae’s perspective. We need to distinguish between what actually happened (which is difficult to determine as of right now) and what Rin interpreted as happening. From his perspective, he has a moment in chapter 125 where he thinks Sae pretended to love him while they were growing up, only using him as a stepping stone to get to the world stage. After that had been achieved, Rin presumes was abandoned. This is unlikely true though (even if it’s tricky to discern for now). This is where I cry on deaf ears for a Sae light novel or spin-off chapter, anything to get his side of the story. My current PERSONAL interpretation of canon is that Sae still loves Rin, however he knows that Rin’s desire to be the world’s best as a duo is impossible, and his way of trying to ween Rin off such a dream was to sever their relationship, he just went about it in perhaps the worst way possible. No matter what really happened though, I’m more interested in what Rin interpreted from being abandoned, which is a mix of hatred and confusion but also still a desire for recognition.

This to me reads as very similar to what Hiori’s relationship with his parents used to be before his arc. Hiori hated his parents. He wished death upon them. And yet, despite that he kept fighting for what they wanted, fulfilling their expectations because he was so afraid that if he didn’t, all the blame would be placed on him for their family falling apart. Rin’s situation is sort of a dark mirror to Hiori’s, where instead of just fearing that abandonment, Rin was abandoned, with all the blame being placed on him by Sae. And just like Hiori, until his own awakening took place he himself was fighting for Sae’s approval again, trying to find any way he can to fulfil Sae’s expectations. We see this in the way Rin chose Isagi to be his rival after the U20 match not because of anything in particular that Isagi has done, but because Sae acknowledged Isagi. We see Rin’s desire for love in the way he travelled to Tokyo in the Episode Rin extra chapter to possibly watch Sae’s match, even though they’d already fallen out by that point. We even saw this limitation as recently as chapter 273, where Rin gives up a goal opportunity because, to him, Sae wouldn’t approve of it. His awakening has hopefully gone in a similar direction to Hiori’s, where he is now learning to play for himself.

Rin and Hiori both strove for love from their families and are now in the process of breaking from this mindset and fight only for themselves. This complicated relationship with love, expectations and abandonment is what draws me to a lot of hiorin’s potential. They both exist along a trajectory of breaking free from their families�� expectations, with Hiori having decided to not try to appease his family anymore and Rin having just started to unlock the true depths of his destruction without the need for Sae.

Part 4 — Headcanons: Some Fun Ideas

Anything from this point on is pure headcanon, taking into account all the canon information listed in the previous sections. This is NOT ‘speculation’. I genuinely don’t think any of this will be canon. Kaneshiro hasn’t consciously laid the groundwork for Rin and Hiori to interact but he has done so by accident and all the pieces are in place. This section is all about some fun ideas I’ve had about hiorin, mostly trying to use canon as a strong basis so that they make sense. These can range from canon-adjacent to domestic AU material, it’s a whole mix really. I’ll probably come back to this bit every now and again to update it with new ideas I have, so keep an eye out for that.

A shared understanding. Since they’re both familiar with what they perceive to be feelings of false love from family members, it creates a situation where they can understand why they act the way they do better than anyone else. I hc that this would help them to more naturally form link-ups on the field, since they’d be in tune with each other’s mental states as well as general play styles. Off-field they’d be able to recognise when something has ticked the other off or resurfaced some unpleasant memories. I don’t think they’d really be ones to talk about their family traumas to each other openly, but they’d have an understanding of the things they do find out and wouldn’t think the other is overreacting, especially Hiori understanding Rin. Hiori was voted the best listener, so while Rin likely would not open up much, if at all, Hiori would always be willing to listen to him. While I think it’s good that Rin has friends like Nanase who he can be more chilled out with, I personally prefer the idea that his partner is someone who can actually understand the depths of his issues and sit with him in the eye of the storm until it passes, rather than trying to just ‘fix’ him without being able to understand him properly.

Touch-starved and both slow to physical affection. Since they’re both introverted and Rin is emotionally constipated as hell, they aren’t really a couple that would be very into PDA. Not even hand-holding. But it doesn’t really matter for them. They’re both not very used to that sort of physical comfort especially in the presence of others. However, while I think in general Rin might be a bit more reluctant to initiate intimacy than Hiori, I do think he’d still be more inclined to initiate hugs. Why Rin of all people? Because he grew up with a sibling. And he was a younger sibling at that. On some level he would have received attention from Sae while their relationship was still good, even if only a little bit. Hiori on the other hand grew up an only child in a household where hugs and doting were used as a tool to manipulate him. He’d likely not be used to the idea of hugs as a genuine show of affection. But Rin’s hugs are always genuine and often given out sparingly and tentatively, after a lot of hesitation. They’re both slow to physical affection but they’d find a way to navigate their wants and needs together, taking their time.

All-nighter horror dates. Be it playing co-op horror games or binging horror movies in the dark, I think they’d both prefer that as a date night over going out to a restaurant. It’s an activity they can both have fun with as a shared interest, just the two of them, alone at home with no need to even leave the house. They can let themselves get more passionate and competitive (and sadistic) while playing horror games too. I particularly think they would play Dead By Daylight together a lot, with Hiori maining a killer since he said that’s what he would play in the Egoist Bible 2.0 and Rin playing a survivor since that allows him to fight for his life until death, something he strives for in life.

Owl eyes. According to the Egoist Bible, Rin’s favourite animal is owls (a lot of Nomura’s Rin drawings also feature owls, he has a plushie of an owl in chapter 270 and he wears a ‘fukurou’ (owl) bag in the Episode Rin extra chapter). It is also a fandom-wide thing to say that Hiori has giant eyes. While most people compare Hiori’s eyes to bugs, I’d like to offer comparing them to owl eyes — giant, round, staring into your soul maybe a bit too much. Hiori has owl eyes and Rin loves owls, so I headcanon that Rin would love Hiori’s large, curious eyes more than anyone.

Yoga together. While we only have canonical confirmation that Rin both regularly does yoga and is good at it, I hc that Hiori would also be quite good at it due to his parents likely drilling him with intense schedules and being helicopter parents about his health. Yoga would likely fall into it somewhere as a cool-down activity and a good way to exercise on rainy days. While Hiori initially wouldn’t find yoga fun to do with Rin due to his negative associations with it, I feel like over time it could be a nice bonding activity for the two of them. It requires minimal talking if they’re doing their own routines, and as long as Hiori isn’t messing up the moves I think Rin would tolerate the two of them existing in the same space. At the very least, Hiori wouldn’t try to one-up Rin with moves he can’t do and topple onto Rin as a result (looking at you, Isagi…). They wouldn’t do couples yoga though, just their own thing in the same space.

Sharing food. In the Twitter QnAs, it states that Hiori’s favourite food is salt-grilled saury (saury shiyoyaki) “including the bitter bits”. His least favourite food is cotton candy because “it’s just sugar”. Therefore, I hc that he tends to enjoy bitter food while disliking sweet food. In contrast, we know that Rin quite likes sweet food because he used to eat ice cream with Sae on the way home from practice, plus in the Episode Rin extra chapter he enjoys most blanc at a dessert cafe. Because of this difference in tastes, I like to hc Hiori giving any sweet food Blue Lock offers in their meals to Rin. Likewise, if the main meal Rin is given is ever burnt or charred too much for his liking, he gives the charred bits to Hiori since he knows Hiori will eat them so the food won’t be wasted.

Tea and coffee. As an addendum to the previous hc, I think Hiori would be a coffee drinker and Rin would be a tea drinker. This is because coffee tends to be more bitter, especially ones without sugar like espressos, so I can see Hiori preferring them to tea. There’s also the idea that ochazuke is made with tea, which is a bonus for Rin liking tea over coffee.

Cooking. Last food-related one I promise! While Hiori likely has a ton of technical knowledge about nutrition, dieting, calorie counting etc… due to his mother’s frenzied control of his diet growing up, I headcanon that he doesn’t actually have a clue how to cook. Once again, this is because of his parents being overprotective and worrying that he’d injure himself with a kitchen knife or burn himself on the stovetop. So he has zero clue about where to start in the kitchen. On the flip-side, while Rin isn’t the best cook in the world I reckon he’d have somewhat of an idea of how to cook the basics, plus he likely also has knowledge of dieting and nutrition for the sake of his own health. So while they’d both have things to learn in the kitchen, it would be Rin doing more of the actual cooking while Hiori decides what meals to eat to optimise their health and training.

A joint-aura that’s a blizzard — in the event that they ever were to team up on the field, I think that the aura they’d give off together should be a blizzard. It makes sense to me for them to have this because Hiori has ice associations with the kanji 氷 in his surname, which means ‘ice’, and in chapter 239 when he gives his monologue about finding a reason to play, a metaphorical key appears with a snowflake on it to symbolise his newfound resolve. Rin’s connections to snow are less positive though, since it was snowing the day that Sae abandoned him. I think making their joint aura a blizzard could symbolise both Hiori’s ultra-sadist resolve to play, and Rin finally being able to move on from Sae to associate the snow with his sadistic determination. A snowstorm joint-aura would also emphasise the pair of them having a sadistic, destructive take-down of their opponents.

Hurt/comfort. Given Hiori’s fetish and Rin’s predisposition to violence and injury, I love the idea of Hiori being the one to bandage Rin up when he gets hurt. From the U20 match we know that Hiori’s first instinct is to ask Rin if he’s alright and help him, but since his fetish is for this sort of thing I highly doubt he would scold Rin, chastise him or tell him to try his best not to get hurt anymore. Rather, he would accept Rin the way he is, tend to his injuries without pity or complaint, and Rin would be able to have someone be there for him who doesn’t look down on him for being destructive. We see in Rin’s flashback chapters during PXG that he was nervous about getting scolded by his parents, which is why I think Hiori’s acceptance would be so important to him.

Hiori has a type. His canon type is already ‘someone who will leave me alone’ as I previously discussed in section 2. However, I do like to semi-jokingly say that his type is also ‘dark-haired, analytical guys with an attitude who are really good at football’. Obviously this is meant to refer mostly to Isagi and Karasu (we’ve all seen the heart-eyes you give them, Hiori!), but it is amusing to me that the description also fits Rin perfectly.

Part 5 — Transformative Works I Recommend For New Shippers

These are just some of my favourite fanfics all linked together in one place. I’ll start with a shameless plug of my own fic:

14 Days To NOT Fall In Love (but guess who did anyway)

Summary: This annoyingly mandated break of Ego's was only fourteen days long. That would never be enough time for Rin to fall for this aggravatingly sweet, understanding, level-headed, cyan-haired gamer boy... Okay, maybe he'd need to exercise SOME restraint. Aka: how Rin and Hiori become mutually pining idiots after the U-20 match through a combination of video games, late night discord calls and learning that perhaps they're not all that different after all.

(Chapters: 10 , Word Count: 67088 , Rating: T)

And now for my personal favourites I think new shippers will enjoy, in no particular order (if any of the authors see this and have tumblrs you want me to tag, lmk!):

catch us in the morning by transrightssokka (kellallyourfriends)

Summary: Hiori looks down and brings his hand up to his mouth, hiding a faint smile. “You don’t wanna go home, do you?” “No shit, I don’t,” Rin says. He’d rather sleep on the sidewalk than spend the next two weeks with Sae. Hiori is silent for a minute. His pretty eyes flick to his feet. Up to the back of the seat in front of them. Over to Rin. “So.” “So?” Rin says. Hiori lowers his voice. “So, what if we didn’t?”

(Chapters: 3 , Word Count: 27206 , Rated: M)

Even When It’s Starless by saturnshots

Summary: Everyone’s had an imaginary friend or two — it’s not often they change the course of your life, but who says being imaginary could stop them from bringing your dreams come true?

(Chapters: 1 , Word Count: 2838 , Rating: G)

sine wave by starstruckdove

Summary: Rin discovers Bachira’s “super secret surprise” sooner than he’d thought. There’s a new boy standing next to Ego at practice, and Rin knows he’s new because each of his unfortunate teammates have made their presence (loudly and raucously) known in his life. The boy has a nice face–wide eyes and soft mouth, all rounded corners instead of sharp edges. His hair is a shocking shade of blue and Rin finds it almost familiar. “This is your new manager,” Ego says with about as much energy as a dead battery.

(Chapters: 1 , Word Count: 8990 , Rated: T)

Daydreaming by em_hiorin

Summary: Hiori can’t seem to concentrate during practice, as a certain Itoshi has been plaguing his mind.

(Chapters: 1 , Word Count: 1560 , Rating: G)

My family thinks we’re dating. by akiangelsolos

Summary: “Oh, I see.” His mother hummed, placing her silver fork down on the table. “You must be upset, Hiori hasn’t come over in a while. You have to be lonely without your boyfriend around.” “I’m not lonely-” Rin shot his eyes at his mom, “What did you just say?”

(Chapters: 2 , Word Count: 5486 , Rating: G)

Part 6 — Wow, You Made It This Far? Congratulations And Thank You!

If you’ve made it this far, then I am both immensely thankful and I applaud you. Seriously, thank you for putting up with my insane, delusional brainrot over this silly rarepair that has barely any canon backing to speak of. Hopefully if anything, you now understand why people are starting to take interest in the ship (or at least why I enjoy it). And if you’re a shipper now, welcome to the club! You will now have to watch Hiori and Rin never affect each other’s development, never interact in any meaningful capacity and you’ll be eternally bitter about it 👍. For any aspiring fic writers, I hope this can be a nice hub of info for all of you if you want to consult the hiorin ‘dynamic’ (i say in quotations because let’s face it, I made up like 95% of the dynamic based on analysis and a canon dynamic doesn’t actually exist). Also, bear in mind that in the off chance we do get some more moments, I plan to update this post. So you may end up being subject to even more brainrot in the future.

Until that day comes though, I can only thank you once again. Hiorin is my otp and no matter how much Kaneshiro doesn’t make it come to fruition, he will have to try incredibly hard to make me stop shipping them. The dynamic can change. They can become more and more ‘incompatible’. I don’t care. If hiorin has no shippers, I have passed on from this world.

[my-rose-tinted-glasses]

We Are

A lot has been said about this show over the last 15 weeks. And despite what some people seem to think, most of it has been positive. I tend not to write much about shows in general, and stick to making pretty gifs of the shows I really like. The fact that I made exactly one set for the entire duration of this show should tell anyone who's reading that this will not be glowing review of the show. I'm not going to be mean, but if you loved the show and don't wanna do read someone with a different opinion, I beg you to stop reading. Also sorry if this is less than coherent but I'm tired so I won't be re-reading this a hundred times like I usually do before posting. Which also explains why I don't write a lot here.

We are - the story

One of the things that have been said about this show is that it lacks a plot. I would agree that the show as whole does not have single plot, but a series of plots. At it's most basic definition a plot is a series of events that shape a larger narrative. In the case of a linear plot there is a major plot line that follows the narrative from beginning to end with changes throughout. I'm not going to go into it, there are several ways this can be done depending on the type of narrative but most commonly it goes, beginning, rising, climax, falling, resolution. Now there's no such thing in this show as a whole. No single plot line. There is however several plots inside it, and these different plots do follow their own lines throughout the show. Every couple has its own plot line. And if we could only watch one couple at a time as if they had their own separate show, it would look just like any other bl, although it would certainly not be all that original. I think the friendships are what ultimately brings it all together but that by itself is not a central plot because it basically remains unchanged throughout. It's the anchor but it's not what moves the narrative forward.

We are - the ships

Once again, if you are a die hard fan of these ships do not read any more. Before I talk about them individually I just wanna say that @italianpersonwithashippersheart made an excellent point here about the fact that since we were familiar with most of the ships here, the show had an easier job in making us care for them. All the couples had their own storyline, with different stages of their development happening at the same time. And for the most part the show didn't have to spend a lot of time selling us on the relationships. It made use of a solid, reliable product that could be repackaged and resold. This is not necessarily a bad thing nor is it a new thing. It's thai bl.

Phum & Peem - The main couple. And in my opinion the least interesting one and the one most wasted here. Look, PondPhuwin are good together, this is their third show as a couple so they are a solid bet. So why not give them something with more depth? Why did I have to watch them exchange longing looks for the better part of this show? Don't get me wrong, they are great at it. Pond specially could teach a class on how to stare lovingly into Phuwin eyes. But lord was I tired of it. I mean, I'm sorry but I was fast forwarding through some of their scenes together because I've seen them all. I didn't count them but the amount of times they fell into each others arms must have been some sort of record. Sure, Phuwin is great at the facial expressions, Pond's hair ir gorgeous and he should be doing shampoo commercials, and yes, they can pull off the 'you're the only person in the universe in this moment and time loses all its meaning when I look into your eyes' thing. But enough is enough.

Q & Toey - It's fine. They're fine. They're actually much better than in My School President. Both of them I think improved a lot in their acting. But their story didn't do much for me. I enjoyed Q's change after they were boyfriends, I thought it was fun, but the drama before that, I thought, was so forced so I was not really all that invested. Also not a fan of the jealousy plan even if it did give us some entertaining moments with the friend group. I don't know, they just didn't click for me.

Tan & Fang - Is Tan one of the most adorable simps we've had in thai bl? YES. Did the boyfriend moments of this couple make me grin like an idiot 80% of the time? YES. Did I believe in the reciprocity of this relationship from the start? NO. Tan was the only reason that this relationship had me invested. His loud and unapologetic love for Fang filled the gaps in this particular love story. But the way it started made me have to work extra hard to believe the rest of it.

Chain & Pun - They were my favourites from the start. I waited 15 weeks for that kiss. Was it worth it? honestly, probably not. But at least they delivered in the end. That scene was everything I could've wanted from those two even if I wish it had happened sooner. The change in casting might've been the reason why it had to be this way so I'm not complain about that because ultimately I really enjoyed their story. Marc delivered as usual. Poon was so endearing to watch and his face is lovely. They remain my favourites and I wish I had a bit more time with them.

We Are - The friendships

This is what kept me going. When the episodes dragged and I found myself a bit bored, there was a big group moment and it brought me back to the show. When this show started, in my monthly breakdown I said I thought that @bengiyo comparing watching this show to watching the actors IG reels was a good way to describe the experience. But for me that wasn't always a bad thing. Just like with the couples, the fact that I knew these actors and they knew each other made me feel more connected to those ensemble moments. They felt very natural and grounded, and ultimately I could relate and be touched by them. I think that it's the show's biggest strength.

Well, this got longer than I expected and I never really know how to end these things so in conclusion. It was good fluff, with good friendship moments and solid acting from the couples. I will however forget most of it by this time next week, specially with the amount of ql's I'm watching at the moment.

If you've made it to the end, thanks for reading. 💜

[nikonladyz4]

The Illusion of Truth - The World of Shipping

The illusion of Truth - repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth. That is a law of propaganda often attributed to the Nazi Joseph Gobl. Among psychologists something like this is known as the illusion of truth effect. The idea is repetition! 

We see this so often in the world of shipping. Especially with our neighbors and their perceived relationship status between Jungkook and Taehyung.

If you reinforce something over and over again you start to believe it even if goes against the most fundamental truth. This strategy was actually reinforced by hitler himself in his 1925 autobiographical manifesto. He observed that most people are only comfortable telling small lies because of this Hitler believes that when something big is claimed we tend to believe it because we ourselves can’t imagine that someone would be telling such a big lie. 

In the manifesto Hitler said that it would never come into our heads to fabricate colossal untruths and we would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously.  

Even though facts which prove the actual truth may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation.  This is clearly seen in the case of Jikook. Facts are clearly out there, but the neighbors discount each and every one of them. They can’t fathom there is a close and personal bond between Jimin and Jungkook. They think any and every interaction must be fanservice, because they have been sold that bill of goods, opps I mean that illusion of reality. They even think enlisting together is fanservice. Again, there has to be some explanation to explain the bond of Jimin and Jungkook. There is no way they are in a relationship, in their minds it means if jikook is real, their ship of Taehyung and Jungkook are not in a relationship, but just friends. Jikook destroys what they have believed all these years.

The illusion of reality convinces people that the truth that we see, hear, feel or touch are NOT TRUE by just repeating and saying something so ridiculously UNTRUE that it’s so hard to believe anyone would even dare say it. 

Back to shipping, we know all shippers put forth theories, evidence, and proof of their supposed ship. Many keep it surface level and fun. However, some take it so far that they hurt the subject(s) of their ships or those they feel threaten that ship. We see this with some of the fans of Taehyung, Jimin and Jungkook. We see hate campaigns based on edited videos, false narratives, and outright lies. Then these lies are repeated so often that many believe them in part because it supports their belief and because people don’t or won’t take the time to verify or validate such lie(s). This process is nothing but the use of propaganda which can result in cult like behavior. 

Unfortunately, we have twitter accounts and YouTubers who promulgate these lies and narratives for views and monetization of their channels. Others promote these lies with the expressed intent upon hurting and threatening people such as Jimin and to a lesser extent Jungkook.  We saw this last year with the hate campaign towards Jimin and Jungkook when they traveled to Japan along with the hate letters to the Defense Ministry of SK.

The YouTube channel “Asian Entertainment and Culture” posted an excellent video today called “Dirty PR & Marketing Tricks Used to Destroy JHope & Other Idols”. the bulk of my comments above as it relates to the Illusion of Reality came directly from her video. She was not addressing shipping, but the smear campaign against JHope and Jungkook because a group of fans want Scooter Braun removed from Hybe and also to smear Jungkook’s collaboration with Usher who they say has supported Israel. However, everything she addressed in her video also applies to the world of shipping and we so clearly see what she is talking about in this world. 

After all these paragraphs of words above, if you don’t get anything out of what I said, try and recognize when you see “The Illusion of Reality”.  Validate and verify the best you can what you are being fed or consuming. Watch full content and not just edited clips, read reputable articles from reputable sources. Watch various YouTubers and look at how they present information. Are they using reputable sources? Are they presenting facts or opinions? Are they serving up their own narrative to support their channel? Is the analysis based on facts or innuendos, half truths or outright lies? Be a critical thinker and not just parrot the illusion of reality.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

glimbow vs catradora: jealousy

i'm just going to talk about jealousy in general here, not just in romantic relationships, because i don't ship either of these ships.

i saw a lot of spop fans hating on glimmer because of the way she treated bow when she was jealous. and honestly, i agree that she was being very immature and possessive there. but these are the same people who act like catra getting jealous of lonnie was adorable and romantic and “gay panic”.

let's compare:

glimmer gets a little awkward around perfuma but she never takes her anger out on perfuma. at worst, she acts a little huffy but that's about it.

catra sees adora talking to lonnie and immediately resorts to attacking lonnie violently.

glimmer blames bow for how she feels. she acts like it was his fault for not always hanging out with her. she was being unreasonable but again, her actions weren't so aggressive or pointed that it hurt bow, physically or emotionally. at worst, she just came off as annoying and clingy.

when adora tries to confront catra, again, catra's immediate impulse is to scratch adora across the face, leaving her with a huge scar. she blames adora for trying to make a new friend and reacts in a way that hurts adora both physically and emotionally.

this is the most important part. when glimmer refuses to apologize, bow was allowed to be mad at glimmer, and rightfully so. he tells glimmer straight-up that she was being unreasonable and that she shouldn't be trying to control his social life. he doesn't try to sugarcoat it, he is honest with her. and glimmer realizes her mistake and apologizes to him. she never repeats this kind of behaviour again.

not only does adora not get to call catra out on her obsessive and controlling behaviour, but she also offers to sacrifice her own needs for catra's. she is shown to forgiven catra without even an apology. she never gets closure, catra never stops being possessive, and the cycle continues well into their adolescent lives, where catra once again gets furious and violent when adora finds new friends.

so, in short, glimmer expresses jealousy in a mildly irritating way while catra expresses it in an extremely aggressive and toxic manner. glimmer is held accountable for her actions by the narrative, while catra's abusive tendencies are enabled and romanticized.

you could make the argument that catra was much younger, which is fair. she was only six at the time and didn't know how to deal with her feelings yet. however we see time and time again that catra never changes this behaviour. she continues acting as if adora should always stay with her and do what she wants.

in both these cases, glimmer and catra have sympathetic motivations. they're scared of losing the only friend they have. but while glimmer is made to understand that her friends can have other friends, and she shouldn't be possessive over them, catra just gets to blame everything on adora and adora has to be patient with her and sacrifice her social life for catra.

[udkmehahaha]

Hey there, you expressed that you are open to talk about byler so I hope it’s ok that I ask you :D I was wondering how you deal with byler / duffer doubt, if you have doubts at all?

The last time I was emotionally invested in a ship was with Sherlock and John back in the day,,, and that ended up being heartbreaking, so I‘m afraid of this happening again..

Especially since I see some parallels with the way a lot of people look at the writers, I think? The writers of Sherlock were also thought to be these great detail oriented writers, who craft the narrative so wonderfully subtle … and with Sherlock it turned out that they were not these writers we imagined them to be at all…

I’m also afraid that I just project my own feelings onto Mike, my queer gaze haha

But it’s a comfort for me to know that el will have her arc of independence, cause she obviously deserves to explore the world and herself and not just stay with the first guy who stumbled upon her! :D it also comfort‘s me that will‘s feelings for Mike will have to be addressed even more in s5

Do you have anything to comfort you? Or are you very convinced?

i think everyone has their fair share of byler doubt moments, but for the most part, i truly believe that byler will become a thing for 3 reasons.

1. byler is the only ship in the show handled with SO MUCH CARE. the van scene took a whole DAY to film, and the writers, directors, and the crew (even the actors) all love this ship so much and you can see that through all the thought that is put into their scenes.

2. i always tell anti-bylers to rewatch the show and really dive deep into the mike/el/will love triangle because if you REALLY analyze, (and have some common sense) you will see with the way the characters have been written, the way the story has been going, it ALL adds up to mike and will being the end couple and if you dont want them to be the end couple then you dont want happiness for the characters.

3. since the beginning, we have been feeling bad for will. the poor kid went missing in an alternate dimension, had an abusive (later absent) father, gets bullied in school, got possessed by an evil monster and told people how to fix the problem even if it would end up killing him, got left behind by all of his friends, still has a connection to the place that will haunt his nightmares forever and likely will still have that connection until vecna is dead, got swerved a hug buy his best friend, got third wheeled (on his birthday) and is a gay kid in love with his best friend (and made us believe that his friend "does not reciprocate his love") in the 80's. so tell me, why would they make this kid suffer AND make him queer just for us to see him get heartbroken and sad in the end, because its a pretty known fact that without mike, will might likely never be happy, so why would they end up doing ALL OF THAT for will, just to see him lose in the end? that doesnt make sense, the audience is rooting for will, and vecna dying, healthy relationship with his family and friends, and being able to kiss mike on the mouth are the key things to make will happy.

honestly my only doubt it that the writers will just simply change their mind about it. 😭 or netflix will not let them do it. also this might sound crazy but sometimes i dread byler coming on screen because my dad is probably the most homophobic person ever and i dont want to deal with him talking about some "2025, they wanna make everyone gay so people will keep watching" and im just like no. you dont get it.

thank you for the question! keep sending more.

[jazeswhbhaven]

Wish good health and positive vibes to that salt anon, bless their salty heart.

With the MC stuff going down I think I felt I identified a few things. We know what happened with MC's parents but it's never been touched at all and I think PB made a huge mistake. Because that part is probably a good start to give some flesh on that bone that does nothing but bone every devil. Hence why people are complaining that MC is horny...yes it's a horny game but MC's only personality is that and that can fall short without any substance, or clash with the story.

The real questions that need to be ask is: What is WHB MC doing in the story to give them any merit? The answer is: not much. We could give them merit during the end of Chapter 3-4 with Nina and Leamas...but then the dildo thing ruined it. And speaking from the narrative...what else do we know about the MC? They're Solomon's descendant, and for the devils, Solomon was the big deal and very dear to them. But again, this is where the writing falls short. I remembered there was an argument about if the devils even value MC because they're MC and not Solomon's descendant but I won't touch on that we know the devils like MC and it's really just plot armor. I shouldn't be sitting here reading and wondering what EXACTLY makes the devils LIKE MC? Because MC barely has done a lick of anything than sit there and watch, oogles devils, gets kidnapped, gets hanged, etc etc. I guess for me, MC isn't impressive which I expect from a faceless character, they're frustrating because all they have going for them is their horny thoughts but they're ragdolled throughout the chapters and haven't done anything useful even though they're the key for this war deal going on(I swear if chapter 6 makes them a joke again I'm killing everyone in the room), and honestly any sort of situations that's meant to be funny isn't funny to me unless it's just the devils interacting. Then again I enjoy taking a backseat and watching characters interact than any MC in any game.

On a lighter note: if someone as useless as MC can have 6(7) kings and that many devils wanting their dick/cooch then please open the gates and ship all of us to Hell. Unlike MC who dawdles there, we're ALL willing.

Dialing back to answer some old inbox asks before all the new stuff happened (phewihavealottocatchupon)

But yes anon, I wonder though if your opinion on MC is the same after chapter 6 if you've finished it? I'd like to hear your thoughts now that we've seen a bit of push back from MC and them at least vocalizing things this time around.

Now since I don't know if you've finished the chapter, I won't go into too much detail but they DID slip up and it made me shake my head. But at the same time...they're human and perhaps that slip up was bond to happen. (if you did finish it and you know what I'm talking about feel free to chime in on that)

Without getting into Chapter 6, I feel that MC is indeed not giving me much to go on for the valid reason of their plot armor. I'm sure they can help with the entire underground lab thing that's going on, but from what I gather...chapter 7 is probably going to piss off most of us when it gets down to the wire of what MC needs to do.

But that's just my early predictions, I already feel my dread coming from that cliffhanger....

[crowroboros]

CARL 2 anything left to scrape off walls of this barrel before hitting the baseline facts?

Sorry for taking so long to do this, had a lot going on offline lol.

Okay, Carl round 2. I think in the first Carl post I made, I focused a lot on him narratively and how the plot handles his character so I guess I'll focus on being more casual with this one. Just getting out random thoughts, you know?

Carl and Daxton's friendship was one of the best parts of the vn. I would read an entire story of those two just being best buds after Flynn's route.

I kind of want to know what specific irl games (or their in universe equivalent) Carl is into cause in Route 65 Chase says that Carl is playing a "Japanese Tactics RPG" on his handheld and my mind immediately went to Fire Emblem. And idk I find the idea of the Echo gang knowing about Fire Emblem to be very funny for some reason.

I wish we got a bit more Sydney and Carl flashbacks. Both of them were very close to Flynn and Carl expresses discontent over the lack of answers surrounding Syd's death. I just wonder how close they were and what their friendship was like. Especially considering the shit in TJ's route with the "never have I ever killed somebody" or how Carl wanted to do the treasure hunt to get some closure. It makes it seem like those two were better friends than say Syd and Jenna, but we don't really see any of it.

Speaking of Carl's relationships with different characters, we have to talk about Carl and Flynn right? I'm not into the shipping scene much, but "Flarl" is something I can get behind. This post always jumps to mind when I think of their relationship and it is probably the most compelling piece of Flarl content I've ever seen, official or otherwise. Also I occasionally see the opinion that Flynn/Carl didn't have much hints in the prologue and Carl's route. And I can agree with the prologue, but in the beginning of Carl's route, Flynn and Carl was having an argument over Carl spending time with Chase over Flynn.

Chase rationalizes the "making out" comment and the other remarks between Flynn and Carl as a joke (and on my first reading I did as well) but in retrospect yeah wow there were more hints towards their relationship than I remember.

Also wait Carl isn't an only child right? I might be saying bullshit but I swear he mentions a sister in his route.

He fucking does what

who the hell is she? wait she gets mentioned once and then never again what is going on there?

[luna-rainbow]

Thoughts about this quote from AM about how Sam doesn't trust Bucky and will probably never completely forgive him for being the Winter Soldier?

Here's the link to the tweet I saw (I don't know how to include screenshots sorry 😭😭):

https://twitter.com/DianneR_99/status/1785867853238833641?t=NUhkilfwG2guZQx31-b82g&s=19

It's apparently from the official Marvel Studios' collector special TFATWS book.

Why is it so hard for people at Marvel to acknowledge that Bucky is a victim not some reformed villain?

(Also please feel free to ignore this ask, I know people have been dogpiled in the past for being slightly critical of AM and the last thing I want is for you to get hate because of me.)

It’s okay I think I’ve blocked most of them, or they’ve gotten tired of dogpiling me and blocked me. If I’ve missed anyone feel free to announce yourselves to get a block 😌

Thanks for bringing this to my attention!

I’ve said in other asks about AM’s comments on Bucky, I never blame an actor for not understanding the nuances of another character. That’s not his job. Understanding Bucky is the job of Sebastian Stan and the writers.

However, I know it’s tempting to compare him to CEvans, who had always spoken so affectionately of Bucky. Remember that Bucky’s story in the movies was complementary to Steve’s, meaning that CEvans had to understand Bucky's tragedy in order to understand Steve’s pain and guilt. To CEvans/Steve, it was important that Bucky was a wronged hero, because it rationalises why Steve would go such lengths to help him. For the entire trilogy, Bucky, and particularly Bucky's suffering, was very much impetus for Steve’s personal journey and growth. I've talked about the narrative motifs in other meta and I want to emphasise I don't mean this from a shipping lens - I mean that thematically, events that happen to Bucky have always been a major driver for Steve to make important narrative choices, and it is true even if you see their relationship as platonic.

Which…I guess brings us to the crux of the disk horse that brought about this tweet. No, Bucky is in no way important personally or narratively to Sam. Sam doesn’t grow or change because he cares about Bucky, although fortunately at least Bucky’s TFATWS arc involves him growing because he cares about Sam. We know Bucky is not personally or narratively important to Sam because of what AM has just said — Sam will always see Bucky as the guy who tore off his wings and kicked him off a helicarrier. Not a WW2 war hero, not a prisoner of war tortured into blank amnesia, not a survivor who had to rebuild most of his identity ground up, not a veteran living with PTSD without any social supports. These same views are echoed by his fans, who will scoff at everything I’ve said above and say we’re trying to “woobify a white fave” without knowing what woobify means. Sam does not care about what Bucky has been through, we know because the writing of the story has told AM that it is not important to understand who Bucky is or what Bucky has been through. All AM needs to do is to banter with this guy like he’s still annoyed at him over an incident 10 years ago when he had amnesia.

Again, I don't blame AM for this, because he can only work with what the writers have told him about the intended relationship between Sam and Bucky. And to be fair, he plays it like it is. At no point does it feel like Sam values or trusts Bucky beyond "annoying guy I put up with for work". I know some fans like to point to the Louisiana scene as proof that Sam trusts Bucky and has him as part of the family -- which would be great fanon if 1) AM didn't just contradict that and b) Sam spends most of the deleted scenes calling Bucky "the Winter Soldier" like the guy had any say in the moniker. And no, Bucky confessing his deeds to Yori is not Bucky reclaiming his identity as the Winter Soldier.

This is not an indictment on the ship, by the way, because you can wrangle canon to make it work, and shipping has been built on far less. I've got nearly 50k words on AO3 proving I've tried. But TFATWS canon is full of things happening off camera and the truth is...we never saw mutual trust and affection on camera between the two men. We saw two guys perpetually annoyed at and annoying to each other, and AM just gave the reason why.