#and THEN you have netanyahu vs palestine

[infiniteglitterfall]

i/p discourse in a nutshell

I'm reading this long-form article about Edward Said, the guy who I've seen credited with imposing American views of race and ethnicity onto Israel and Palestine.

It's interesting to see how very American and privileged he was in some ways.

(When a Vietnam War protest disrupted one of his college classes, he called security. What a preppie.)

But this one line (in the article, not Said's own work) answered a question that's been bugging me for months: why do people so often say, "The West Bank has been occupied since 1967," when Jordan occupied it for nearly twenty years before that?

Israel’s Prime Minister, Menachem Begin, who doggedly opposed a Palestinian state, was encouraging Jewish settlements in the West Bank and Gaza, territories seized from Palestinians in 1967.

Territories seized... from... Palestinians?

Egypt had seized Gaza, and was holding it under military occupation and treating people like crap.

Jordan had seized the West Bank, made it a part of Jordan, and called East Jerusalem Jordan's "second capital city."

Not only did it give Palestinians Jordanian citizenship, but Palestinians in the West Bank continued to be citizens of Jordan for almost 20 years after Israel annexed the West Bank in the Six-Day War.

Jordan didn't terminate their citizenship, or its claim to the West Bank, until Palestine declared independence in 1988.

Israel very clearly seized the territories from Egypt and Jordan.

It also doesn't say Israel seized them "from Palestine," the country. Because the leaders of Arab Palestine (as opposed to Jewish Palestine) chose not to declare independence in 1948, and instead to screw everyone over by lobbying the Arab League to invade, destroy Israel, and divide up the land.

It says Israel seized them "from Palestinians," the individual people in those territories.

But that's not true either; individual Palestinians kept their homes.

What it seems to mean is "from Palestinians," the collective people.

From THE Palestinians; the ones who we assume were there first and who were driven out, not by the Arab League's invasion, but by angry racist Jews stealing their homes.

It's striking because it illustrates how successfully the entire history has been retconned to focus solely on one very specific, ahistorical narrative.

And how easily you can fill people's lack of knowledge about the subject with implication and innuendo, if you choose just the right wording.

[traegorn]

while i completely agree with your assessment of realistically what a trump vs harris presidency will look like, i think the issue me and a lot of other leftists have is that there is no need to tell people (and effectively tell harris) that oh ofc we are gna vote for her despite these issues because trump is THAT bad and if you say you don't want to vote for her because her party is pro-war, pro-genocide, then you are condemning americans to a trump presidency. we know trump is worse! i don't want him to win AT ALL, but why would harris even consider even changing the language she is using (i'm looking at the absolutely stupid speech she was giving in michigan, given the large arab & muslim-american population there and given its a battleground state) if she thinks she is going to win on a not-trump basis? i know who i'm voting for on nov 5th if it comes down to it, but we need the democrats to THINK they are going to lose until the very last minute, we need them to feel like they can't just rely on being the lesser of two evils if we want any chance of a shift on palestine. because they very well might lose, for this exact reason (and i'm speaking again more to the votes of the arab & muslim-american population which is far more demographically meaningful than the votes of leftists) and if that happens, they have no one to blame but themselves.

So I'm going to tell you something important: You don't have the leverage you think you have.

Political campaigns are a machine that's been operating the same way for a long time on the Democratic side. The Republicans may have abandoned a lot of the old ways of doing things, but the Democratic party hasn't. And you've got people running these campaigns who are steeped in the "wisdom" of how you win.

And when a block of voters says they're not going to vote for their candidate, they tend to believe them. So they decide to go court the people who they think will vote for them. That's why you've seen the Harris campaign trying to court moderate Republicans who might be iffy on voting for Trump a third time.

Right now one of the reasons Netanyahu is refusing to commit to a cease fire is because he thinks Trump can win. If Trump wins, he has no reason to ever agree to one. One of the reasons he thinks Trump can win is because the polling is so close.

If you want to know why they've gone to the right recently, it's because they think they've lost the left. And since a lot of those leftists are claiming there's a line in the sand that they don't have the power to appease (because -- again -- they can't get Netanyahu to do shit right now), they're going to go for the centrist Republicans.

Also, there seems to be this weird notion that the only way to move the Democrats is during the election. That's not how you move people. You keep pressuring them during their term and it works. Like Biden is continuing to work on forgiving student debt even though he doesn't have an election ahead of him. Because they know that what he does reflects on the future of the party. Voting doesn't end this game, it's the start of it.

But none of it will matter if Trump wins.

[stil-lindigo]

Hello, very confused and overwhelmed outsider here. Looking at posts here and on news sites I see such pradoxical views, one saying to not support Palestine is to support genocide and the other saying to not support Israel is to be antisemitic. I wonder, and I am going around asking people on different sides of the war, do you believe it is possible to support both the lives of Palestinian people and the lives of Jewish people?

Feel free to ignore this ask or to point out any ignorance on my part. I hope you have some peace in your day/night, I can only imagine how stressful it is to have so many people asking so many serious questions.

hi anon. I’m gonna try to make this is as concise as possible, since I’m technically writing this on my lunch break. Yes, it is possible and in fact very easy to support the lives of Palestinian and Jewish people because - and this is the important part - Israel and Zionism is not Judaism. Depending on who you may ask, Zionism began as a pure-hearted desire for Jewish people post-WW2 to create a place that would always unequivocally be safe for Jews, but as I am not Jewish myself I feel like any description I might give comes off as insincere and not fully grasping the scope of that mission. But no matter what Zionism once was, it is now the belief that Jewish people have the right to commit genocide against indigenous population so that they can establish their ethno-state. And you can split hairs all you like, but after the past four months, my belief in that has only solidified.

Perhaps the strongest opposition to Israel comes from Jewish people themselves, who’ve popularized “not in my name” as a protest chant. Holocaust survivors have come out in droves to protest the actions of Israel, and they’re often the strongest front of any protest action since - yes, you’re right - mainstream news is very committed to selling the idea that this “war” is Jews vs Muslims which is just inflammatory racist garbage. There’s more to it than I can easily get into right now, but just for a start, it completely erases the existence of Palestinian Jews or Palestinian Christians, and also ignores Israel’s historically abusive and degrading treatment of their own Holocaust survivors in their population.

This “war” is not a war. It’s a genocide, where the total amount of bombs dropped on Gaza is officially over twice the impact of a nuclear bomb. One side is asking for a stop the fighting, for aid to be allowed through, they are asking for clean water and food as their women have been forced to rip off scraps off tents to use as menstrual products. One side has had all 35 their hospitals bombed (a war-crime the first time, and it continues to be a war crime every time it still happens), over 100 of their journalists have been targeted and murdered (more journalists than were killed in all of WW2, and btw this is also a war crime). And the other side films TikTok’s levelling apartment buildings, looting houses, kicking Palestinian hostages, stripping them naked and urinating on them. Israel has rained white phosphorus down on Palestine, they have bombed Palestine indiscriminately, they have destroyed archives, historical locations, they have done their best to rob Palestinians of their dignity and empathy and still, they’re not done.

Oh and the excuse that they’re just doing all of this to save the hostages? Hamas offered them all back in exchange for a ceasefire. And the Israeli prime minister, Netanyahu, said no.

In the future, try to get your news from trusted news sources like Al Jazeera, and following journalists on the ground like Bisan and Motaz.

[iizzeee]

Guys, I am begging you. Please please please please please PLEASE do NOT vote 3rd party, or not vote at all.

I get it. I really do. Biden’s handling of Israel has been, not gonna mince words, dogshit. Abominable. Unspeakably bad.

But we cannot afford to protest like this.

We don’t need Biden as president. We do need to keep Trump out of office. And to those who respond “well, I don’t want just the lesser of two evils,” please, for the love of god, grow the fuck up.

For one, why wouldn’t you want the lesser of two evils. It is, by definition, LESS EVIL.

“Why can’t we just have no evil, why isn’t that an option.” I really wish it was. Just as much as you. But it’s not. These are our cards, and we have to play our hand to the best of our ability.

Which brings us to two.

Trump is more evil. Like, so much more evil. We’re comparing apples and oranges here guys.

I understand that a lot of you might doubt that. The largest demographic of people advocating for third party or non-votes are in the 18-26 range. New voters, with one or no elections under their belt.

So they don’t remember.

Most of us (I myself fall under this age range) don’t remember 2016. The election, that is. They don’t remember how so many people protested Hillary vs Trump by going 3rd party or writing in joke votes, because they saw the two as equally bad. And Trump won.

Half of us don’t remember the Trump presidency. We’ve heard he was a weird, bad, bigoted president, but don’t fully grasp the scope of how bad.

So off the top of my head, here are some highlights of real things Donald Trump did while he held office.

- threw toilet paper at hurricane victims like he was trying to shoot a 3-pointer

- fired the man investigating him for election fraud

- called African countries “shitholes”

- appointed members of the Supreme Court who would go on to overturn roe v wade

- stole classified documents from the white house to hide at his resort

- tried to instate a Muslim Ban

- incited a insurrection to try and keep himself in office, and maybe hang his VP if there was time

- looked directly at an eclipse. Like no glasses, full on.

- fueled covid conspiracies. Also told people to “drink bleach” to fight the virus

- withdrew us from the Paris Climate Accord

- cofefe. Remember that? What a fun, normal thing for the president to tweet at 2am.

- employed literal white supremacists

- called Nazi’s “very fine people”

- got endorsed by the KKK, and refused to condemn David Duke

And that’s just what I can remember right now.

So if you’re angry at Biden about Palestine, please please please do not think for a fucking second Trump would be better. He would almost certainly actively be worse. He would give Netanyahu the green light. If you think Biden has used a loose leash, at least it’s some kind of leash. Trump would be all in. Full chips, flying to the Middle East to send in the bombs himself.

If you’re still hesitant, consider this last plea.

Things are bad. These shouldn’t be the only two choice we have, but they are. You can’t look at the menu, which is offering either bland soup someone spit in or actual rat poison and go “could I have some steak”.

You can order the soup and live to write a one-star review on Yelp, maybe call health inspections on the restaurant or contact the owners and say “you guys know your menu has only two options and they’re both dogshit. If you don’t add more, you’ll be unemployed soon.”

Or you can order rat poison and die.

If we elect Donald Trump in the fall, we will be eating rat poison. He has repeatedly said himself to be in favor of a dictatorship. He quotes Hitler. If he is put in office, the change we all want and so critically need will not be fucking POSSIBLE. Because with Biden, it’ll be hard, and tedious, and long, and exhausting, but at least it will be goddamn possible.

So, come November, please don’t order the rat poison.

Please just eat your shitty ass soup so we can live to get really angry about it.

Please.

[cazort]

I have seen a post circulating that talks about US politics and basically insinuates that in the upcoming presidential election, Biden is "99% Hitler" and Trump is "100% Hitler" and it makes me so frustrated that people can't see this as the disinformation and anti-vote propaganda that it is.

I'm intensely frustrated with Biden for how he has acted too little, too late on the Palestine issue, and how the U.S. continues to send billions in arms to Israel. And yet I'm going to be voting for him, and the analogy above is hugely dishonest. There is a massive difference between Biden and Trump:

The Biden administration and Democrats have strongly and unambiguously protected abortion rights, whereas Donald Trump appointed three supreme court justices who overturned Roe vs. Wade, and Republicans have across-the-board passed draconian abortion restrictions far more conservative than even their base.

Biden and the Democrats are strongly pro-LGBTQ rights including trans rights, at a time when Republicans are threatening trans rights in every state they control, and when even mainstream, "center-left" publications like the NY Times have been publishing transphobic drivel.

The Biden administration continues to expand healthcare access and work to control costs whereas the Trump administration worked to undermine much of the coverage we had.

The Trump administration was hopelessly corrupt and dysfunctional, with turnover in most appointed positions, scandal after scandal. Trump committed crime after crime in plain view, and incited an insurrection when he lost the election and has continued to back conspiracy theories undermining the very foundation of our democracy. Biden has been a relatively straightforward, "what you see is what you get" politician over his whole career, with a sort of level of flaws and corruption that is more typical of politics.

Trump had unprecedented anti-immigrant stances and under him, life became much more difficult for immigrants to the US as well as for non-citizens living here legally. Biden's administration has tried and worked against tough resistance to reverse many of the worst immigration changes made under the Trump administration, including doing things like giving 320,000 Venezuelans temporary protected status as refugees, trying to halt the border wall construction, and increasing legal immigration across-the-board.

Biden's rhetoric has become more critical of Israel over time, Biden has called for regime change and the ousting of Netanyahu, and under Biden the US Ambassador finally stopped voting against a ceasefire resolution and only abstained. Whereas Trump and the Republican's rhetoric has retained entirely critical of Palestinians and not at all critical of Israel, and Republicans have consistently supported draconian restrictions such as bans on BDS and some even introducing legislation banning referring to the region as Palestine. And weeks back, when public sentiment was not as anti-Israel as it is now, several Democrats voted for scrutiny to the Israeli military aid, whereas only one Republican did.

I am highly critical of Biden and I too am appalled that he's still running and that we don't have a better candidate who even ran in the primary. But it's far from truthful to say there is only a 1% difference between Biden and Trump, and even more dishonest and inaccurate to call Biden "99% Hitler", that's crazy talk and it serves only one purpose: to demotivate people and suppress voting.

There is a huge difference between these candidates. They will affect my daily life and your daily life and they will affect the whole world and they will affect Palestine.

Do you want a better candidate? Do you want to vote for an idealistic third-party candidate as a protest vote?

Support ranked choice voting first. Then, if you are in a state like Maine or Alaska that allows ranked choice for the president, vote for your ideal candidates and place Biden however low you want and then omit Trump entirely.

But if you do not have ranked choice in your state, especially if you live in a swing state, vote for Biden. And make sure to also join a movement that advances ranked choice, ideally Total Vote Runoff (TVR) as that is the best system for ranked choice.

[random-knowone]

Trump vs Palestine (Part 2)

This is a followup of sorts to my post dispelling dangerous disinformation about Kamala Harris' views on Palestine. This post is about how Trump would be far, far worse.

1: Trump loves dictators, and wants to be one. You can bet that he will fully support Netanyahu.

2: His opinion on the Ukraine war was that Russia can do "whatever the hell they want"

3: Trump is extremely racist and xenophobic. Just look at how he talks about immigrants, his plans to deport lawful citizens, his claims that Kamala Harris "Just happened to turn Black", or his comments about "Black jobs"

4: Trump only cares about power. He wants to be president so he can be free of the law, and pardon his cohorts. There is no way he would have any sympathy for anyone, he only cares about himself. Kamala Harris has spent her entire life trying to help others.

Even if you don't like Harris for any reason, even if you refuse to acknowledge that she is fighting for an immediate ceasefire and a two-state solution, Trump is going to be far worse for Palestine, and there is no denying that.

[autisticexpression2]

I'm so sick of the cynical self-righteous leftist wank around the election in regards to Palestine.

Of the two candidates, Trump is objectively worse for Palestine. Worse even than Biden. That's not an "Orange Man Bad" platitude. He'll tell you that himself. He has accused Biden of holding back Netanyahu. Biden. Genocide Joe. Trump thinks Joe Biden went easy on Palestine.

Wake up. Trump will not only make things worse for Palestinians on their own land but Arab diaspora in America as well. He will suppress any pro-Palestine voices in America. He isn't fucking around this time. He has a plan. Have you seen it? If you haven't, you should look it up.

If it's a choice between the guy who openly wants to make the situation even worse vs a woman who might not immediately make things better but has entertained at least the possibility of a ceasefire, the conclusion is very obvious to anyone who actually gives a shit and isn't just pretending to care online for clout. If there is even the slightest possibility of hope for Palestine, or even just a chance to avert the absolute worst case nightmare scenario, we should all be grasping at that instead of giving up and handing the reigns to Donald "Final Solution" Trump.

You aren't helping Palestinians with your defeatist anti-voting bullshit. You're using them as props in your own personal morality play, starring Your Most Holy Righteousness as the main character. They're human sacrifices at the altar of self-image. You don't care about the outcome as long as you keep your hands clean by not touching that which is impure. You don't care what actual material good you do as long as your morally pure sociopolitical opinions ensure you a place in woke heaven.

Even Palestinians and other Arabs are starting to say this now, and you're still doubling down on your smug self-righteousness. It's fucking disgusting.

Just grow up and fucking vote. And for the love of God, shut the fuck up.

[torc87]

People, when you say Nazi Israel you sound as stupid as if you were saying "the Republican Israel", the "KKK Israel", or "Inquisition Israel".

It makes zero sense and sounds dumb bc Nazism is a SPECIFIC ideology. It existed in a specific time and place, had specific beliefs. It is not a generic term for "evil, bad".

One of Nazisn beliefs was that all Jews should die.

Which means it makes Zero sense to say Nazi Israel bc the two contradict each other.

It's like calling the Wall Street Protests the KKK. The two can't work together bc one group hates the other. They literally cannot share an ideology. They cannot have the same beliefs.

And I get what you are trying to do. You are horrified and appalled and want to call Israel the worst people/name you have been taught. And in this century it's Nazis bc many of our great grandparents fought them and we were all taught in school that they committed atrocities. So you hate them, think they are the most evil of evil, and so when you want to say "Israel is Evil, possessed by the devil, etc" but realize that this would make you sound nuts, you compare them to a group you know everyone hates.

But it makes zero sense bc the ideology of Nazism first and foremost wants all Jews dead! I'm pretty sure you aren't thinking that Israel wants that!

This is what Nazism means. It's a time bound, location bound political party and being a Nazi means supporting Hitler, hating Jews, hating rommani, hating communism.

It's not a generic term.

Also when you do that? You are doing the same thing as calling a black person whose grandparents were lynched a member of the KKK. Bc there are A Lot of people in Israel whose great grandparents and relatives of that era were killed by Nazis. Violently.

A lot of people whose grandparents survived ghettos and concentration camps and still have the tattoos they were forced to get. Whose parents inherited the trauma of that. Who learned what Nazis were around 7 years of age.

How old were You when you learned about Nazis?

It is one thing to claim "you guys were the victims of a vicious genocide less than a century ago, how can you do this to someone else?"

Which is what I think most people are trying to ask when they use the Holocaust and Nazis against Israel.

It is a completely other thing to say "you and anyone who supports you are exactly the same people as the ones who tortured and murdered your great grandparents, you now believe the same political ideology".

Bc then any Israeli looks asmt you like you are insane and goes " I don't believe all Jews, romani, and communists should be killed, what are you Talking about? We are not forcing slave labor or killing 30,000 people in three days ( Google Babiy Yar), or tattooing people w numbers to dehumanize them. You all and ALL your criticism must be crazy!"

Which then ends the discussion bc once you compare people to the violent murderers of their great grandparents, and deliberately trigger inherited trauma ( scientifically proven to exist) , that conversation is over.

Which? If the goal is to trigger the existing and inherited trauma many Israeli have? Ok, great job, you did it, now what?

Bc people who feel unsafe or hurt as a general rule? Get way more us vs them. They get closer to their in-group ( Israel) see the out-group ( Palestine ) as more of enemies, and are more likely to agree w or at least not protest laws that encourage that.

Which, great, you now convinced the people who can vote Netanyahu out of office to agree w him more! Go you!

Was showing your anger and hatred and disdain worth it? Accomplish much?

You retraumatized victims who are already ( in my opinion, this part is my theory on what is going on) taking their trauma out on others and repeating the trauma cycle. Not early a useful way to stop the things you want stopped bc more violence does Not end that cycle.

If regular Israelis have the power to stop the conflict? You just gave them more reason not to.

If regular Israelis can't stop the conflict ( bc I remember being very angry Bush was invading Iraq and lots of people wanting him to stop and....he just didn't care) then you just retraumatized a bunch of people who have as much power in this situation as you for no reason.

Also, using previous violence someone went through to hurt them is a disgusting thing to do.

Appropriating their trauma to show your anger and outrage at them is a disgusting thing to do.

Pretty sure you can show your anger and outrage a different way.

One does not call the survivors of a crime by a time specific , meaning specific, ideological title.

You sound stupid, you sound cruel, you are accomplishing the opposite of anything helpful.

Is that worth you venting your anger and helplessness?

[battleangel]

Israel's Genocidal Playbook

Israel just followed this EXACT same genocidal playbook in Palestine over the past year.

Israel is about to follow the same EXACT genocidal playbook once again this time in Lebanon.

Israel Genocidal Playbook 101

•Shut down international airport in Gaza.

•Cut Palestine off from the world — food, fuel, medical supplies, all international travel.

•Forced famine & starvation campaign due to food no longer entering the country + displacing internal farmers + disrupting countrys internal food supply.

•Airline threatened by US with economic sanctions if they fly wounded, injured & dying civilians internationally for medical treatment resulting in needless & completely unnecessary deaths.

•Millions potentially starving to death as a militaristic genocidal campaign — the literal definition of a war crime.

•Warnings to residential areas, neighborhoods, airports & public buildings of Israel Defense Force bombings literally only a few minutes before they occur not allowing any chance for an actual evacuation.

•Bombings of residential areas, schools, hospitals, airports, mosques, public buildings & "safe zones".

•Purposefully targeting civilians in a “collective punishment” scorched earth campaign for Hamas resistance (Palestine) & support of Gaza & Hezbollah resistance (Lebanon).

What can we do to stop it?

When Biden has supported, promoted, funded & provided weapons for the genocide in Palestine for over a year that has murdered 200k+ Palestinian civilians?

What can we do when Trump was elected & he very recently told Netanyahu to “finish the job” in Palestine?

What can we do when both Republicans & Democrats support Israels genocide in Palestine?

So, how do we stop the United States from funding, providing weapons for, threatening economic sanctions over, protecting, defending, justifying, rationalizing & endlessly promoting yet another genocide this time in Lebanon?

Yemen could be next — genocide is already happening.

Syria could be next.

Iran could be next.

Do you ever question why the US is always involved in “conflicts & tensions” in the Middle East?

Do you ever question what George H.W. Bush was referencing when he gave his “New World Order” speech in 1991 on the eve of the Gulf War (first Iraq war) when he declared that global alliances & enmity had shifted and that the Cold War enemies of the past — communist Russia & China — were no longer the United States’ ideological existential foes but now it was the Middle East at the time Iraq?

Do you ever wonder why Russia backed Afghanistan in the 1980s?

Why did the PLO form?

Why did Hezbollah form?

Why did Hamas form?

Why did October 7th happen?

What was the Nakba in 1948?

Why did then Senator Biden tell Congress in 1986 that if “Israel didnt exist, we would have had to create her.”

Who is “we”?

Do you ever wonder why historical references to Palestine date back thousands of years but Israel does not?

Why did Malcolm X & Muhammad Ali consider Palestinians “their” brothers & sisters?

Why is Chevron funding the building of oil wells on the Gaza Strip?

Why every 20 years or so has there been a major conflict or war in the United States dating back to WW II?

Notice a pattern?

•WW I: 1920s

•WW II: 1940s

•Korean War: 1950s

•Vietnam War: 1970s

•Gulf War (Persian Gulf I - official name): 1990s

•Iraq War (Persian Gulf III - official name): 2000s

•WW III (US & Israel & UK vs Iran/Syria/Iraq/Palestine/Lebanon/Yemen & US, Ukraine & UK vs Russia, China & North Korea): 2020s…

They are purposely crashing the economy right now.

Why?

To drive up military enlistment which is already happening.

US troops are already in Israel.

North Korea has already sent troops to Russia.

If the Middle East didnt have oil, do you think the United States would be interested in them geopolitically?

Why are there simultaneous genocides occurring in Palestine, Lebanon &:

•Congo: Cobalt - used for batteries for iPhones, electronic vehicles, tablets, laptops, computers, TVs & smart watches.

•Local warlords fight each other & kill civilians in the crossfire over controlling cobalt mines given how valuable they are to Google, Apple, Samsung & Tesla.

•Sudan: United States & UAE (Dubai) control, fund & supply weapons to RSF (Rapid Support Forces) who are fighting against the SAF (Sudanese Armed Forces).

•Sudans biggest export is gold & the US & Dubai want to exploit the tensions between the RSF & SAF to keep Sudan destabilized so they can control the gold. •Both the RSF & SAF are committing genocide against their own Sudanese civilians & war atrocities & crimes against humanity including mass rapes, torture, mass graves, targeting civilians. •Over 100 Sudanese women recently committed suicide to avoid brutalistic gang rape by both the RSF & SAF.

•Eritrea

•Tigray (Ethiopia)

•Yemen

•Uyghurs

•Mali (mass rapes at border of country due to internal conflict & killings)

•Etc etc etc…

All of the above involve the same settler expansionist, resource exploiting, colonizing mindset & strategy of forced famines & starvation, forced relocations, collective punishment, targeting civilians, murdering women & children, targeting residential areas, schools, hospitals, refugee camps & “safe zones”, scorched earth tactics, breaking the will of the people, psychological torture, dehumanization, numbing & desensitizing the rest of the world, threats of economic sanctions against any company or country who resists.

Why do you think the ICC (International Criminal Court) & the ICJ (International Court of Justice) havent arrested anyone?

Why do you think the UN has not brought charges against anyone for human rights violations?

Why is western media covering up these genocides?

Why is the global community silent in their complicity?

What can we do?

Other than signing online petitions, calling our Congress members & Senator, attending marches, rallies, protests, die-ins, civil disobedience, strikes, days of rage, days of action, vigils for martyrs, volunteering for local Socialist (DSA), Party for Socialism & Liberation (PSL), Working Peoples Party, Communist, Green Party & Peoples Party community organizing events?

You can raise your voice.

You can be a voice for the voiceless.

You can refuse to look away, get tired, numb, defeated, fatigued & exhausted.

You can continue the long term fight against injustice and for liberation.

Revolution.

Redemption.

Genocides have been happening as long as humanity has existed.

Rwanda. Serbia. Philippines. Armenia.

Haiti. Native Americans.

African slavery in the United States.

Struggle! Resist! Fight!

It's a long term fight beyond any of our individual lifespans of 100 to 500+ years.

For liberation.

Choose not to distract yourself.

Bring what is being hidden in the dark to the light.

Be a light. Be a voice.

Share. Post. Reshare. Repost. Comment.

Interact. Engage. Donate if you can.

Tweet. Post videos. Stream.

Talk to your family & friends in real life.

Dont let the genocide become normalized.

Dont get used to videos & images of dead children.

Connect the dots.

Realize the ideology that is driving all of this death & destruction.

Realize that its always been the same ideology.

Realize all of this misery, pain, suffering, torture, death & destruction is for money & resources.

What every single war & genocide has ever been for.

Realize there are no “good wars”.

Realize the United States employed these same exact scorched earth tactics in WWII when they literally burned & cooked alive over 100k Japanese civilians in the Tokyo fire raids.

Yet the US was never tried for their horrific war crimes & atrocities in WW II.

Yes, its plural. No, they never apologized.

The victors never punish themselves.

Dont become numb. Dont ignore.

Dont look away. Dont distract yourself.

Raise your voice!

[stele3]

Sorry if this isn't the place for this discussion, but why do you think people have such a hard time accepting the word of people who lived in Gaza outside of Hamas?

I saw the tweet that Ahmed shared ("Many others did not choose the path of Hamas"), and all I can think is that people are going to accuse Twitter of poorly translating the tweet to "play into the Zionists' hands", and all I can think is "Why would somebody potentially say that? What the hell is happening?"

I think it’s a combination of psyops — the social media narrative was too instantly one-sided not to have been coordinated by someone — and the desire to have a simple narrative of Good Guys vs Bad Guys. I’m sure there are individuals in Hamas who are fighting for freedom and to save Palestinian lives; but the organization itself and the majority of people who fight for Hamas are rapists and murderers.

Similarly, there are individuals in the Israeli government or even the IDF who want peace and hope to coexist with Palestinians. But Netanyahu and his cronies are perpetuating this genocide in order to protect themselves; the second Netanyahu is out of office, those corruption and abuse of power charges come right back to nail him.

Similarly, the people backing Hamas (Iran, Russia, China) and the people backing Israel (US, most of Western Europe) care very little for the actual people of Palestine or Israel. They’re more interested in the larger picture, ie control of trade routes through the Middle East/SWANA, particularly the Red Sea AND through Ukraine. The second Russia seized territory in Ukraine, they started building a railroad so they could connect a trade route through Ukraine to the rest of Europe, which would greatly benefit Iran and China.

That’s what all of this, from Ukraine to Palestine, is about.

[yxlenas]

Hi I'm here to talk about Ukraine vs. Palestine because I hate myself and having a peaceful blog

I've seen more than one weird bad faith take comparing the Russo-Ukrainian War to what's happening in the Gaza Strip, so let's look at the wartime numbers. As of 2024, Ukraine has 2.2 million military personnel and the 31st strongest passport, granting access to 148 countries. They're currently engaged in an accession deal with the European Union and the US sent them 77.8 million dollars in military financing ALONE, outside of the financial aid sent under USAI. Ukraine has been recognized outside of Soviet satellite status by the UN since 1991. 10,500 civilian casualties have been estimated, according to OXFAM, including about 600 children since February 2022. Also, Ukraine is very much under Genocide Emergency currently (updated link thanks to @kyitsya). I made a post with sources about Russia's attempts to destroy Ukrainian culture here that everyone reblogging this one should also reblog.

The POPULATION of Gaza before the beginning of the Israeli bombardment in October 2023 was .1 million people more than the Ukrainian military. They have no sovereign status at the UN. Their passport is 99th in the world and there are only 41 countries that are visa free. There has not been a free election in Gaza since 2007. There is no functional standing army, just the NSF (That has US support, btw)which is also essentially a police force of less than 11,000 people. Even accepting the IDF claim that 15,000 militants have been killed since the October 7th attack, that's approximately 20,000 non-combatants killed, taking into account the UN's altered data. Even after the UN revised data, 14,500 children have been killed. in EIGHT MONTHS. Gaza is experiencing a Genocide Emergency as well (as is Israel, because of the attacks on October 7th).

Militarily, Ukraine is being well supplied and supported. They have a still-functioning government and a standing military as well as international support. Gaza...has none of that. There needs to be a ceasefire, an international consensus going forward, and a sustainable, long term solution that allows for a sovereign Palestine (Including the end of illegal settlements in the West Bank), free and fair elections, and free movement in and out of Palestinian territories for Palestinians. I do not have a solution, I am simply a historian who teaches World History after 1500. But this is not sustainable, and bad faith comparisons and whataboutisms are NOT the move here.

Some FAQ RE collective punishment and US sanctions on Ukrainian use of US armaments below the cut!

But yxlenas, October 7th was a terrorist attack!

Yeah. It was. 1200 people were murdered because of their Jewishness, including a pretty prominent left wing peace activist. (Notice Israel is also currently experiencing a genocide emergency) and Hamas is a designated terrorist organization who definitely does not treat the civilians it is supposed to be governing in any sort of humane or safe way. The ICC issued warrants for those it believes to be responsible for the orchestration of the October 7th terrorist attacks alongside their warrants for Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant. But literally nothing excuses collective punishment (this is a WAR CRIME) which is what expert opinion has declared Israel's actions in the Gaza strip.

But yxlenas, we don't let Ukraine use US weapons on Russian targets inside Russia!

You're right, we don't. Allow me to direct you to Encyclopedia Britannica's article on the Cold War for an explanation as to why we don't do that.

But yxlenas, the bombing of Dresden killed between 25,000-250,000 civilians and helped us defeat the Nazis!

You're right! And it's literally referred to as a campaign of TERROR BOMBING and is considered one of the most controversial Allied decisions of the entire war. Israel also has an AI algorithm to target Hamas militants that is 90% accurate. With tech like that there's very little excuse to be bombing the way they're bombing that ISN'T collective punishment with the goal of eliminating the Palestinian presence in Gaza. Itamar Ben Gvir, the minister of National Security (who is threatening to resign, by the way, good fucking riddance), is actively advocating for the resettlement of Gaza.

[fivetrench]

oh god you're 16, Zionism is not what you think it is, it's a Jewish belief of self determination in the indigenous land of Israel. there are literal instances in the Torah of Bnei Yisrael fighting to maintain and defend their land from invaders.

it's not a "white supremacist ideology", its not "fascism" and it's DEFINITELY not genocide.

Zionists want Netanyahu gone, Standing Together is working in bringing more humanitarian aid into Gaza, when Jews are being randomly interrogated on if they're secretly a zionist there's an "us vs them" going on.

I hope in 10 years you could look back at your holocaust inversion and cringe. please don't get so heavily involved in complicated geopolitical conflicts that happen on the other side of the globe.

Yes, I’m sixteen, very interesting how you people learn that and immediately discredit anything I’ve said. I’m a teenager, not braindead. This may surprise you, but I know how to form coherent thoughts and opinions. Crazy, I know! Who would’ve expected that from an underdeveloped, far inferior worm like me!

Tone down your ‘righteous mentor’ bullshit and hear this - no one has a ‘right’ to any land. You don’t live there? It’s not yours. It’s that simple. Palestine is where Palestinians live. Period. Even if there wasn’t an attempted ethnic cleansing happening, displacing over 2 million people from their homes is wrong. I’m sure you wouldn’t be too happy if someone kicked you out of your house and forced you into homelessness because they have a ‘predetermined right’ to the land you lived on. I mean, do you not hear how fucking insane that is? Do you not understand the depravity of hearing that and being like ‘yep, okay, this is normal!’. Jesus christ, I cannot fathom what goes on in the minds of people like you. It must be totally empty in there, just some dust and a button to activate the ‘YOU’RE ANTISEMITIC’ response.

Grow some balls and turn off anon next time you want to spout this bullshit at me.

[gveret-fic]

sorry for the unsolicited rambling/u don’t have to respond but i just wanted to say that as an Israeli American i think it’s really interesting how different the media plays different roles within Israel vs America. ex: hostage posters (as i understand it) within Israel are used to call for ceasefire and a hostage deal. on the other hand, in America they’re used as a means to call for more indiscriminate bombings/continuing the war and to counter any pro Palestine activism including those that call for ceasefire and hostage deal.

ialso feel like israeli media like toi despite the fact that it’s obviously going to be more biased toward a certain perspective often has way more credible information and more honest info on i/p info than even American liberal media on Israel from nyt or cnn deny a lot of the atrocities of the current war

Oh I absolutely agree with your first point, and in fact I find it entirely unsurprising; of course context changes everything. These are different countries in different continents with different governments and different peoples and dramatically different circumstances. Like, duh. Unfortunately this simple idea can be challenging for many people.

For those who are unaware, it's true that the hostages have been used to justify the war to the world (and US specifically), and it's also true that the Israeli hostage protests have always called for immediate ceasefire and are in direct opposition to our government. Netanyahu has no problem loudly championing this cause abroad and violently suppressing it domestically. It's clear he has no actual intent to ever bring them home, but he'll use their suffering to fuel his genocide. It's insane how politicized this issue has become here. Genuinely, saving these kidnapped civilians who have been held captive for over a year is now seen as a "leftist" issue. The police beat and arrest kidnapped people's family members and counter-protesters turn up to heckle them. Still insane to me.

Not sure about your second point tho. The amount of blatant misinfo disseminated through Israeli media by our military and gov and echoed with minimal skepticism is insane. Almost worse is the lack of reporting of the atrocities we're committing in Gaza; the only mainstream Israeli publication that consistently reports on it is Haaretz, and the amount of vitriol they receive is insane. The average person here doesn't know what's going on there and doesn't want to know, and will become angry if you try to tell them. I've been accused multiple times of "siding with Hamas" for simply discussing it.

Idk about nyt or CNN reporting misinfo as I don't follow them, I prefer AP, but if you've got some examples on hand I'd love to look them up.

[jewishbarbies]

What constitutes as genocide vs war/conflict casualties, I’m sort of confused. English is not my first language sorry

I don’t understand if Israel is doing genocide or just war against the terrorist group. Is just war, right? That’s why it’s taking so long, isn’t it? I don’t know, but I feel like if Israel was doing genocide it would not take 80 years, it would be much quicker, right? Because the pro Palestine people are telling that Israel was doing genocide for 80 years, but I feel that if Israel was going to do genocide, it would not drag on for 80 years idk.

Most genocides are quick, no? Holocaust was 6 years, 1939-45, and they managed to kill roughly six million Jews, 1/3 of their population at the time, Rwandan genocide was 100 days, 1 million dead, Armenian genocide 1.2 million dead in one year, and other genocides. The population of Gaza in 1948 was 60,000 to 80,000, population of Palestinians at the time was around 2 million as a whole, the current population of Palestinians in that region is roughly 5-6 million and globally, 14.8 million.

This is population growth, right? So if Israel was genociding, why would the population grow that big? The population of Jewish people hasn’t recovered from the holocaust, for example and it’s been 70 years since. Armenian population never recover as well.

And how Israel genocide for 80 years but the Palestinians are not wiped out? As I said before, genocide is quick, and with Israeli military strength, it wouldn’t take long to kill off 5-6 million people, maybe 5 years max?

Very morbid way of thinking, but I’m trying to understand why they say it’s a genocide. I’m not saying that Israel treat the Arabs amazingly, but I don’t know if it is a genocide.

genocide is very specific. it’s not just a mass casualty event, it’s the intent behind the killing. you have to be killing, relocating, etc., a specific group of people explicitly because of their race/ethnicity and/or religion. israel has a large population of palestinian and arab citizens (like, not in Gaza, with citizenship) who have lived untouched this entire time. that would not be possible if this was a genocide by definition because israel would’ve likely targeted them first.

genocides can take any time at all, but it would not take 80+ years at the rate that people claim palestinians are dying. the actual projected death toll was last counted below 30k in total since oct 7th, leftists claim over a million children are dying every single day. if this was a genocide, they would not be targeted specific buildings with low civilian counts, nowhere would be safe, and the Israeli citizens of palestinian descent would be stripped of their citizenship and jailed, killed, or sent back to gaza. it simply doesn’t make sense.

yes, netanyahu is a prick and has little value for palestinian life. but if the point was genocide many things would be different and the only victims would be civilians, with way more dead every day. there should be no civilians dying, but this war is not unique for civilian death and the amount of dead does not determine genocide status.

[esr10]

Hamas is a literal terrorist organization, what are you on???

“Freedom fighters,” yeah they’d freedom fight their way to throw every queer and Jewish person off a cliff, that’s what they’d do

Right… Well at least the queer and Jewish Palestinians that are being killed en mass by Israel are dying next to their Palestinian brothers and sisters because of their ethnicity and not their queerness and their jewishness. That must bring you so much comfort!

It's time to stop treating Israel like a safe-haven for queers. Here's a graphic excerpt of Israeli soldiers killing a gay Lebanese man in the middle of sex, just to traumatize his partner. The only group of people Israel is a safe-haven to are sexual predators and zionists.

And since you want to make this a very black-and-white "Jewish vs Muslim" thing, explain to me why there are only 800-1000 Christians left in Gaza? Explain to me why Israel detained an Israeli man for simply expressing sympathy for Palestinians.

Meanwhile, Israel can proudly proclaim themselves as "the children of light" and call Palestinian children "the children of darkness" as an excuse to murder children. They can call for a second nakba with their entire chest and no one bats an eye.

And since we're already here, let's talk about the hostages. The hostages and their families have been urging Benjamin Netanyahu to negotiate and exchange hostages(/"Palestinian prisoners") with Hamas, but the hostages are the perfect excuse for Israel to wage a genocide against Gazans, so they're being ignored. Hostages have come forth saying they were treated well, meanwhile Israel will bomb ambulances, schools, hospitals and places of worships claiming they're all being used as operation bases by Hamas. There are several videos of hostages begging for an exchange, but they've unjustifiably been made the face of Israel's entire campaign against Palestine now.

I don't consider myself particularly eloquent, nor am I the most well-versed person in this topic (although I have been following up on it for 9+ years), so fuck you for making me write all that. I urge everyone to listen to Palestinian voices first and foremost.

[galadriel1010]

Trump won and you lost Roe Vs Wade. That die was cast long before the 2020 election. If he gets in again, with potentially 3 Supreme Court seats up, the die will be cast for decades down the line. This isn't speculation, it's what he's said.

Biden won and fewer Palestinians died. Not not, still too many, but fewer. Trump doesn't care about Palestine except what's in it for him. This, what we have at the moment, is Biden slamming the brakes on. It's horrible, but under Trump it could be worse. The assault on Rafah was supposed to start during Ramadan, remember? It wasn't out of the goodness of Netanyahu's heart that it didn't.

Your single issue may be bad under Biden, but unless it's Trump's personal wealth, it would be worse under Trump. Simple as. And on a wider, long term view, we are fucked if Trump gets back in. Letting Trump into the whitehouse risks everything we've gained. He and his supporters are openly planning a bonfire of civil rights, he's offered to trash environmental protections in exchange for campaign donations, and the small gains that have been made in workers' rights thanks to Biden's appointments would be more than reversed.

More people will die under Trump. It's up to you how many excess deaths you can tolerate for your moral purity. But if you're American, you don't get to say it's none of your responsibility unless your vote has been stolen from you.

such a huge relief that hillary’s so ahead in the polls and trump has such a small chance of winning, right? WRONG. DO NOT GET APATHETIC OR COMFORTABLE. DO NOT DECIDE YOU DON’T NEED TO VOTE BECAUSE YOU’RE SURE HILLARY WILL WIN. the only way trump can win now is if so many people expected to vote for hillary don’t show up to the polls. because you BETTER believe ALL of his supporters will be at the polls.

brexit passed in the UK because young people grew apathetic because they were sure it wasn’t going to pass. and it did, because old racists and xenophobes showed up in DROVES to vote.

tl;dr: VOTE, PEOPLE. VOTE LIKE YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT. IT MIGHT.