#also to people who love zukka and catradora | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

kathrahender · 3 months ago

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"They're abusive" "They're toxic" "They hurt each other" "You're normalizing abusive/toxic relationships" "You're normalizing abuse"

I'm really really tired of people calling "toxic/abusive" some ships I like. People -and I'm being serious with this question- do you even understand the definition of a "toxic couple"??? First, to be in a toxic/abusive relationship, the two characters have to be romantically involved. Dabihawks, Bakudeku, Harringrove, Cherik and other ships mentioned in the tags were in a romantic relationship when they hurt each other? No. Not at all. Therefore, they're not a toxic couple.

Secondly, even if they were in a romantic relationship (like Catradora/Reylo), see when they become a couple. Catra and Adora, for example, only became girlfriends after Catra's redemption and after she apologized. And after they kissed, we don't see Catra/Adora being toxic/abusive towards each other. Reylo also didn't become canon until the third movie, and we don't see Kylo Ren being toxic/abusive towards Rey. Actually, we see him saving her life willingly, and not to manipulate her. He saved her life because he loved her. So calling Catradora/Reylo toxic/abusive is also wrong.

Third, people who criticize us for shipping them, and who call the ship abusive, do you even know how the "enemies/rivals-to-lovers" trope works???? Because the purpose of an enemies-to-lovers ship is one character changing from "I want to kill you" to "I love you", and changing from hurt their enemy to protect their partner. A lot of the ships I mentioned in the tags were enemies when they hurt each other. And like I said in a previous post, you're not supposed to treat your enemy/rival nicely, you're not supposed to treat them like a friend or a lover. You're supposed to treat them like someone you hate. Like someone you want to see destroyed. And if you don't understand the thing called "character development", it's not our fault.

"Bakugo and Deku weren't enemies when Bakugo hurt Deku". Yeah, I know. They weren't enemies. But they weren't people who liked each other neither, right? No matter what you say, they weren't exactly in good terms. And no matter how many times you say it's abusive, the only way "Bakudeku" can be abusive is if they were in a relationship in school, when Bakugo was bullying him. Now that would be a toxic relationship. But Bakudeku being toxic after Bakugo's development (because yes, he had development, and if you deny it you didn't understand his character at all) and after Bakugo's apology is bullshit.

So people, before you call one of these ships "toxic" think about it. Because these ships aren't toxic. You know what's a toxic ship? Joker x Harley Quinn. That's an actual toxic couple. Not Catradora, nor Zutara, nor Zukka, nor Jetko, nor any ship mentioned in the tags. The only way they can be "toxic" is if the writers of the show decided to make them be together and decided to make them abusive, or if a writer of a fic made it a toxic ship.

And even if they were a toxic ship in the canon (what they definitely aren't), you have no right to call people "abuse apologists" or things like that. You don't know them, and liking a toxic/abusive relationship doesn't define what they support/they're against in real life.

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andraedevane · 9 months ago

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✨ Intro Post ✨

Hi everyone! I'm Andra Edevane, but you can call me Andrevane or Andy if you want. My pronouns are she/her. I'm pansexual. I don't care if a person is female, male or non-binary. As long as they can make me feel loved, their gender it's a secondary thing. I'm an adult, that's all you need to know about my age. So please, minors, don't talk to me in DMs. You can send me asks and interact with my posts, but that's all. I'm also open to roleplay if you want to! But again, not minors. And feel free to send me ask/DMs me for anything!

【 About me 】

🌸My mutuals: @mustangdemon @shoon200218-blog @generalallxsanjishipper @destroya2005 @fancychaostraveller @zearay @rexnanorum @salsalada @inkfowl @arrhythmicdesires

🌸 Bilingual. I speak English and Spanish.

🌸 Writer (I finally have an AO3 aacount! :D. The username is the same as here btw)

🌸 Artist (I draw sometimes, but I don't know if it's good or bad)

🌸 Music: I like all type of music genders, except reggaeton and trap. My favourite music gender is definitely BSO music. And symphonic metal. Symphonic metal it's... so beautiful for me.

🌸 Hobbies: Write, draw, read, listen to music, watch TV shows and movies.

🌸 Favourite season: Winter.

🌸 Favourite singer/group: Hidden Citizens

🌸 Fics I like: Mostly hurt/comfort, because why not? Is there something more beautiful than a person who comforts another person when they need a shoulder to cry on? Crack fics too, because we need to laugh more in this life and be more happy. Villain redemption, because I believe in the innate goodness in people and I think that's what would make a better world. So you can recommend me hurt/comfort, crack, or villain redemption fics if you want.

🌸Fics I don't like: Rape/Non-con fics because I don't feel comfortable with those kind of things. Fics with toxic relationships because what I want in a fic is a happy ending for all the characters, and if there's a toxic relationship that's definitely not a happy ending to me. And I don't like fics with gore neither. So fics with toxic relationships, rape/non-con, or/and gore are a no-no for me.

【 My fandoms 】

⚡Harry Potter 🌌 Star Trek | Star Wars 🦸 Marvel | DC 🐺 Teen Wolf | Shadowhunters 🏥 Stranger Things 🐞 Miraculous Ladybug 🗡️ Trollhunters 👩 She-Ra and the Princesses of Power 🔥Avatar: The Last Airbender | Avatar: Legend of Korra 🦉 The Owl House 🛸Voltron: Legendary Defender

【 Ships I like 】【 My OTP's 】

Yes, I rarely ship the canon couples. Why? Don't ask me that, I don't know why. I just can't avoid shipping non-canon couples. Maybe it's because all of the canon ships seem like the same to me and I'm tired of that. Or maybe it's because non-canon ships are more interesting to me and they could have an interesting story. Anyways, If you ship canon couples it's okay, but that's not for me.

【 DNI 】

♦️ LGBT+ phobes. I don't care if you are Homophobic, Biphobic, Acephobic or whatever you are, if you can't respect people for their sexual orientation, don't talk to me.

♦️ Transphobes. Everyone deserves to live a happy life. And if someone isn't living a happy life because society asigned them a wrong gender, they have the right to be their true self. If you don't support or accept that, block me or don't talk to me.

♦️ Xenophobes. Hating someone for not being of your country is dumb and it's wrong. So if you are like that, again, don't talk to me.

♦️ Racists. We're all humans, no matter the race. And if you can't respect people for being of another race, don't interact, thanks.

♦️ Sexists. Whether you are a misogynist or a misandrist, if you can't accept that no matter the gender we are all worthy of living in this world, don't talk to me.

♦️ Ableists. Despise or hate persons just for having a disability (If that term upsets some of you tell me) is something horrible and you shouldn't do that. So if you are an ableist, don't interact.

♦️ Radfems/TERF. You can support an ideology, but only as long as you aren't radical. So radfems, don't interact. And if you are a feminist that excludes trans-woman, don't do it neither.

♦️ Fascists. If you are antidemocratic, ultranationalist, right-wing or right-wing extremist, stay away from my blog. I don't want those people talking to me.

♦️ If you support censorship.

♦️ Zionists.

♦️ Islamophobes. If you hate a person just for being muslim, don't interact. Like I said before, I'm a respectful person and I only want to talk to respectful people who support human rights.

♦️ Killers, rapists, pedophiles, MAPs. I don't have to say why I don't want those people intecting, right?

【 Moral of this intro post 】

If you can't be able to admit that we're all humans and we're all worthy of live, and live without being harrassed or abused for our race, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, disability, or another reason, block me.

If you are the opposite, if you are good and kind, if you are respectful, you support LGBT+, and you believe in the equality of all humans, no matter race, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, disability, or other things, you are totally welcome!

I think that's all! So byeee!,

Andy 💐

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literaphobe · 4 years ago

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I’m not about to say that Zukka Isn’t massively overrated and that a lot of the fans are cishets fetishizing mlm, or that Catradora is often unfairly overcriticized, hated, and overlooked (bc let’s be real, it is), but I haven’t seen much of zukka shippers trashing catradora. I’ve scrolled through both the notes of the original fandometrics post as well as the Zukka and Catradora tag for posts talking abt it so I could block the people that made them. (1/4)

But in the Zukka tag, all I could find were fans celebrating that Zukka got first with no mention of Catradora or laughing abt how Zukka placed over Zutara. And in the Catradora tag all I could find was one post and op claimed that they were joking (even though it’s really poor taste). And I’m trying to make excuses for Zukka fans, it’s just that I don’t really see this loud victorious sentiment (2/4)

that the mlm ship lauded by cishets has finally defeated the “evil” wlw. But it could also be that I’m not looking in the right places, or that I just so desperately want to not see fans of two ships that I love hating on each other. And it just feels like the main reason that Zukka placed over Catradora is that atla has a comparably larger fanbase than spop, because it’s had 15 years to gain fans, while spop has only had two. (3/4)

I understand and feel the disappointment of a far from canon mlm ship beating out an explicitly canon wlw ship, but I feel like there’s a more productive way of going about that critique than creating an us vs them narrative, and instead directly criticize the fandom culture that let Zukka thrive. (4/4)

let me. get some things straight because it clearly seems you have misconstrued parts of my post out of your guilt that you? ship zukka? or something? anyway:

i never said zukka shippers were trashing catradora. i said SOME of them were celebrating their victory, and whether they like it or not, celebrating that is not good

why is it bad to celebrate zukka being #1 ship and catradora getting pushed to #2 after roughly two months of being first? it’s because as far as i can remember, this is the first time a canon wlw ship has been number one. or any wlw ship being #1 for so long for that matter

how many times have we seen mlm ships pushed to the moon on this website? why can’t wlw ships have that same treatment? the reason why catradora being #1 felt important and special to me is because it is essentially. a celebration of love between two women. that it can be that valued. that it can be that incredible. that the dynamic between women can be so good! so powerful! that it doesn’t have to involve men, and that IS special, and that IS important, and to be knocked down by a mlm ship again... its just not a great feeling!

but like i said. that in and of itself is. whatever. who cares y’know? we still had a good run. but it is insensitive to see Any zukka fans celebrating the win!! because your win came at our expense! at the expense of all wlw who were so happy and excited to see a lesbian ship be the number one ship on tumblr! and honestly, what is so important about zukka being #1? i’m not saying anyone is bad or problematic for shipping them. i myself think they are cute and that their resurgence is a great foil to all those old het ship vs het ship wars. but did you need this win? did you need zukka to be the number one ship?

if you are a wlw, either you see the importance of a canon wlw ship being popular and widely celebrated, or you do not care enough about other wlw who feel this way. if you are not a wlw, you shouldn’t even be involved in this conversation and should just. listen. to how painful it has been. and to acknowledge that ur mlm ships don’t need to be number one for you to be valid or whatever. if you’ve been on the internet, you KNOW how dominant mlm ships are

yes. i know how popular atla is. i love the show. i know how long it has existed. i watched it as a kid. i’m not throwing a fit because people dared to enjoy atla and find happiness and comfort in its characters and the fun and potential they see in zukka. i am not asking people to stop shipping zukka or to stop making zukka content, nor am i asking them to switch over and make catradora content instead. i’m not trying to start an “””us vs them””” mentality! and i have criticized the fandom culture that let mlm ships thrive while wlw ships got the short end of the stick!

keep this in mind: i am not against zukka. i do not hate all of their shippers, or even in general. i am not calling any of them out for trashing catradora, because i don’t think many of them are trashing catradora, and frankly, i do not care. but is it really necessary for any of them to celebrate this like it’s a victory? like it’s at all monumental and not in fact a disservice and loss for wlw? who just want ships that reflect our identities to be treated with the same love and reverence and given the same hype?

#ask #please stop misinterpreting my posts u guys!#also to people who love zukka and catradora #there is no need for u to panic and think there's some war #there is no war #i don't want to engage in any #but please be sensitive to these things! thank you #Anonymous

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experiment-000 · 4 years ago

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My Top 10 Ships of 2020

It's been a weird year but I've seen other people doing this. Plus this year I've been way more into gen fics (love a bit of found family especially in clone wars and marvel) than anything shippy. So I genuinely don't know what imma put on here aside from two ships for sure. Sorry this post is super long idk how to do the below the cut thing and I've had this app for 5 years...

10) Viktor Nikiforov and Yuuri Katsuki - Yuri!!! On Ice

It was a real toss up between this, supercorp, kanera and wolfstar cos they're all very integral ships to my fan heart but this son because of the Yuri on Ice fandom's rebirth this year. I've never stopped shipping this, never stopped reading fanfic of them for any extended period of time, they're still my most bookmarked ship on ao3 (although I think now star wars - all media types may have overtaken them for fandom). They were one of the first things I watched where the queer ship I loved became canon and I can't wait for the film (and hopefully someday a season 2). Heck I even made my mum watch Yuri on Ice with me so I think that says it all.

9) Edelgard Von Hresvelg and female Byleth - Fire Emblem: Three Houses

My first fire emblem game was fates when I was like 14 (and finally gay awake lol). I was so disappointed that I had to be with a guy character because the only female option was kinda creepy and also I wouldn't get the character of kana. So when three houses came out I was so happy because finally there were beautiful incredible female characters my female byleth could romance (I'm so sorry mlm you deserved so much more than you got). I got the game as soon as it came out (had to search a lot of shops let me tell you) and started on black eagles. I was actually kinda disappointed back in 2019. I didn't like the explore the monastery bit (still find it kinda tedious) and the battle mechanics weren't quite the same as fates (no pairing up?! Aka my main battle technique for protecting the weaker units). So I got like 20 hours in and put it down. Came back to it in lockdown and finally finished it! I'm so proud of myself I virtually never finish games. And I fully fell in love with the useless lesbian edelgard in the process. When I started back playing in 2020 I was like eh I wish I'd picked a different character to romance (like shes an emperor that's morally very shady) but then the romance stuff started with edelgard and I fell the heck in love.

8) Cory Matthews and Shawn Hunter (and Topanga Lawrence) - Boy Meets World

Disney+ was released in the UK this year and I finally got the opportunity to watch boy meets world in its best quality (aka not on YouTube). I watched it back when I was like 12 or 13 and it's such a nostalgic show for me. Watching it again I still absolutely adore it (and my bi ass was low-key crushing on Shawn especially in chick like me - I'm 18 btw and I got so scared for a sec but rider strong was 18 when chick like me came out so it's fine woah). And of course now I see the possibilities of the beautiful Cory and Shawn relationship like they were so bromance it was basically romance and throw in topanga it's the perfect ot3 (but I'm also fine with just Cory and Shawn or just Cory and Topanga). Read some good fanfic for them this year. My favourite was one about Shawn stealing makeup and stuff and exploring gender (need more fics like this I'm biiii).

7) Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes - Marvel Cinematic Universe

I rewatched all the MCU films this year too. And got really into Peter parker whump and irondad. Plus my eternal obsession with identity and relationship reveals of course led me from Spiderman identity reveals (and found family cuteness) to stucky coming out. Especially when it involves the internet and social media. Not my favourite ship but it's been significant to my year due to the sheer amount of marvel stuff I've read.

6) Satine Kryze and Obi Wan Kenobi - Star Wars

I rewatched clone wars in prep for season 7 and wow Satine's death was sad and sudden. She first appeared in S2 E13 I think and just the sheer sexual tension of their bickering. "The sarcasm of a soldier. The delusion of a dreamer." Just ugnnhhh my bi ass can't take much more of this. And Anakin just sipping his wine in the background grinning. And I fully believe korkie is a Kenobi.

5) Commander Cody and Obi Wan Kenobi - Star Wars

I am very much an Obi wan multishipper. I don't really have a favourite but I fully believe he was with satine and Quinlan in his life. I don't think be would've actually done anything with Cody because of the whole superior officer thing. And this probably isn't even my favourite Obi wan ship - that honour probably goes to quinobi or obitine. However the most popular ships in the fandom are codywan, quiobi and obikin. No offence to anyone who ships these they're just personally not to my taste, but I can't stand quiobi, and obikin I find only slightly more tolerable and I think that's just because there's so much obikin content so if I like the concept of a fic that happens to be obikin I'll read it. I'm just not a fan of the mentor/student relationships. So I generally favoured the codywan fics when there was shipping involved meaning I read a lot of them this year. Needed that nice fix it content post season 7.

4) Zuko and Katara - Avatar: the Last Airbender

Again I am a multishipper I have nothing against zukka it's cute. But I'm a zutara shipper first and foremost because when I first watched avatar I was like 13 and denying my gayness and gayness in general so I shipped the straight things and the straight things only. Most of these ships I stopped shipping - dramione, spuffy, some my little pony ones which we don't talk about. Zutara stayed. (I have nothing against any of the things I used to ship I just stopped shipping them so much/shipped new things more). I've continuously shipped zutara since I first watched avatar even if I didn't necessarily spend that much time on it it has always been here as one of my favourite ships. It has such good fanfic I swear including my favourite ever fanfic from any fandom - love thy enemy. Plus like the black games (reread this for the millionth time this year), a delicate subterfuge (which I read for the first time this year and damn it's so good) and so many more. With the avatar resurgence this year I haven't actually rewatched avatar aside from my normal random episode every now and then when I feel like it. But there's been a lot of avatar on my dash from people I follow getting into it and people I followed for avatar returning so naturally I returned to the fandom and read quite a lot of fanfic. I also read just a lot of avatar gen fics which were great at the whole found family thing I've been so obsessed with this year.

3) Catra and Adora - She Ra and the Princesses of Power

Catradora is canon! They kissed! What more is there to say. Arguably they should've been top but I never shipped them that much since I was always very much a multishipper when it came to she ra so yes I was very happy it became canon because we actually won for once but also I've never read much fanfic for them etc. But they are very much a dynamic I love and watching she ra all again in prep for season 5 I really enjoyed the build up of their relationship. The other two only go above because Buffy is my favourite show ever and damn there's some good fuffy fanfic and Aphra and Tolvan is both fresh in my mind and star wars owns me. Would love some catradora fic recs btw if anyone has them tho.

2) Buffy Summers and Faith Lehane - Buffy the Vampire Slayer

I didn't realise it was last year that I got super into them but according to my ao3 bookmarks it was lol. 2020 I swear it's lasted an eternity. I got into them about a month before lockdown (which feels like another lifetime). I've loved Buffy since I first watched it when I was 13. It's arguably still my favourite TV show. I've been through a lot of ships for Buffy - bangel to spuffy and now fuffy. I still think angel and her were a beautiful ship back in season 2 and especially in the angel episode I will remember you. But faith and Buffy had so much chemistry in season 3 - she would've been a fresh start for Buffy and the amount of fix it fics I read I swear. My favourite has to be one where they met in LA during Anne and how that changed everything feat Buffy's internal homophobia.

1) Cheili Lona Aphra and Magna Tolvan - Star Wars

I read Darth Vader (2015) and Doctor Aphra (2016) for the first time at the end of 2020 (got a comic subscription which has served me very well already I've nearly finished the star wars canon comics). Just to see canon queer ladies in star wars was so magical for me as a queer lady. I didn't think star wars would be so overt yet as to have a queer kiss in canon (even if it's in the comics) and especially not with the main character of arguably their main comic series. Now we just gotta hope that we'll get it in live action someday soon. They weren't the ship I consumed the most content of in 2020 but they were the highlight of my 2020 because star wars did that and I finally found out about it

Honourable mentions: Vivian and Elle - Legally Blonde, Candace and Vanessa - Phineas and Ferb, Stevie and Alex - Wizards of Waverly Place, Xander and Spike - Buffy the Vampire Slayer (I actually don't ship this but damn some authors are good - this was the ship that made me realise I don't need to like a ship if the author is good enough to write it well), Eli Vanto and Mitth'raw'nuruodo - Star Wars (started reading the books last year but finished this year and only started with fanfic this year), Villanelle and Eve - Killing Eve, Kanan and Hera - Star Wars, Barriss and Ahsoka - Star Wars, Remus and Sirius - Harry Potter, Kara and Lena - Supergirl (let's hope this becomes canon next year!) (Those last four are ones I've shipped forever some of my og ships but nothing particularly big has happened for me this year with them so)

I got Disney+ this year so rewatched a fair few things from my youth and though hey my obsession with that character may have been a little gay.

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thescrapbookingscientist · 4 years ago

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Ranking 2020s Top Ships

Gonna make my own Year in Review Post later but for now, I absolutely adore the Tumblr Year in review Posts and wanted to do a tier list of the Top 100 ships.

Original Post Here: https://fandom.tumblr.com/post/636856116682375168/2020-top-ships

Haven’t Seen Tier- Just assume I have not seen it if it ain’t on here. Also I don’t care about celebrity ships so they will not be here.

Why Tier- Reed900 (Dbh-I never understood why this was a thing), Maribat (Mlb x DC-Uh what. Did I miss something what happened here.), Harringrove (Stranger Things-I’m sorry to people who like it it just is not my thing), Sasusaku-(It’s 2020 and I still hate Sasuke), Klance (Voltron-I don’t hate you but why are you still here), Bakudeku (bnha-I understand why this is a thing but not why it is so popular), Destiel (Supernatural-HAHAHAHAHA).

Meh Tier- Todobaku (bnha), Johnlock (Sherlock-You’re still here?), Kylux (Star Wars), Radiodust (Hazbin Hotel), Dramione (HP), Reylo (Star Wars).

Yeah, Okay, Tier- Iwaoi (Haikyuu!!), Lukanette (Mlb), Glimbow (She-Ra), Davekat (Homestuck), Charlastor (Hazbin Hotel), Kataang (Atla), IronStrange (MCU), Stony (MCU), FinnPoe (Star Wars-They cute but I just don’t care about Star Wars), Zutara (Atla), Stucky (MCU), Drarry (HP), Zukka (Atla-Wow top 10?).

Cute Tier- Dimileth (fe3h), Korrasami (LoK), Kristanna (frozen), Snowbaz (Carry On), Elsamaren (frozen), NaLu (Fairy Tale), Percabeth (PJ), Villaneve (Killing Eve-This should be higher but I am not caught up), Wolfstar (HP), Erasermic (Bnha), Joe x Nicky (The Old Guard-I guess Immortal Husbands was taken for their ship name huh), Entrapdak (She-Ra), Tododeku (Bnha), ZaDr (IZ-Look I know, okay, I know), Kiribaku (bnha), Geraskier (The Witcher).

Great Tier- JonMartin (Tma-Woo!), Frenrey (HLVRAI-Hey good for it making it here!), Narumitsu (Ace Attorney), Zelink (Zelda), Marichat (Mlb-This includes the whole love square it is the same pairing I ain’t listing it 4 times guys), Sterek (Teen Wolf-This show is not very good but boy there are some really top tier fanfics for these two), Merthur (Merlin-Not sure why you are here in 2020 but good for you), Kagehina (Haikyuu!!), Lumity (Toh).

God Tier- Hannigram (Hannibal-One of my All-time Faves), Wangxian (MDZS-Another all time fave), Catradora (She Ra-One of the best things to happen this year), Ineffable Husbands (Good Omens- I know they were overhyped but they are super cute), Spirk (Star Trek), Connverse (SU), Peraltiago (B99).

#My posts #textpost #2020 #2020 ships #This is not to bash anybodys ships btw #like ship whatever you want #these are just my thoughts

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kekeslider · 6 years ago

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so whats your take on the catra/adora situation

I have a lot of thoughts about this and I’m gonna just unload them all below the cut bc this is gonna get kind of meta-y and pretty discourse-y, and I know a lot of people are trying to avoid that right now. The long n short of it is that I still like the ship.

I’m actually a little baffled by how much people don’t like this pairing now. It all basically comes down to the belief that Catra is abusive towards Adora, but people seem to be conveniently leaving out that Catra has been abused by the Horde as much as Adora. I’d actually argue that Catra’s abuse was harsher, while Adora was the favored child. That’s not to say that Adora wasn’t abused, because she obviously was, but there are different kinds of abusive situations, and in homes with multiple children, there’s often one that the parent/guardian clearly favors and manipulates and the other that gets the brunt of the abuse. Adora was manipulated and lied to and who knows what else, while Catra was physically threatened and harmed, emotionally abused, and pitted against Adora, her own best friend. They have different experiences, and Catra’s experiences have clearly led to the survival instincts she has now. I’ll also point out that members of the crew have stated that Catra’s portrayal is influenced by their own experiences with abuse (source). So flatout saying Catra is abusive and Adora needs to cut ties and leave her rubs me the wrong way. I think Catra is on course for a big redemption arc, because I think people who have been in abusive situations themselves want to tell stories of abuse victims overcoming it.

So that’s sort of the basics of Catra and Adora’s abuse by the Horde, and people have ended up saying, well Adora got out, why can’t Catra? First I’d like to point out the irony of the fandom pitting Catra and Adora against each other in the same way Shadow Weaver did, holding Catra to Adora’s standard. But what makes Adora and Catra different here? There could be a lot of things, you could get into discussions about nature vs nurture, you could argue that Adora has an inherent goodness because she was destined to be She-ra or whatever. But in the end I think it comes down to the different ways they experienced abuse in the Horde. Adora got to switch to the side of good because she thought she was on the good side all along, that’s what the Horde convinced her of, and she didn’t know anything outside of what the Horde told her. Then she also had Shadow Weaver favoring her, and the respect of her superiors and peers, so her life in the Horde was, comparatively, not that bad. But Catra knew it was bad. I’ve seen people calling Catra evil based on her duh, you just figured that out? line. But doesn’t it make sense that Catra knew she was being abused, because she was being treated so much harsher than Adora was? It was in her face all the time, but like Adora, she didn’t know anything beyond the Horde. Abuse was her norm, and she developed certain survival instincts because of that.

But Adora offered Catra a way out right? And Catra knowingly refused, so Catra is evil, right?? This is where I think Catra’s character gets extra complex, because it starts delving into the psychology of abuse victims, and one of the things that’s pretty well known is that abuse victims will often refuse to leave their situation, even when given the chance. That’s what abusers do, they make their victims afraid to leave the stability of their situation, no matter how awful it is. The devil you know, yanno? Adora wasn’t exactly offering Catra safety, she was offering her the chance to join a weak rebellion against the group that was conquering the world, a rebellion which massively failed the last time it was attempted. And leaving the Horde, and then losing? That would make Catra’s situation so much worse.

There’s a lot you can get into with Catra’s motivations throughout the season, but I’ll leave the deep details to Catra-specific character metas. I sussed out 3 big motivations for her from my 1 viewing at the asscrack of dawn.

1. She’s being forced to act against Adora by Shadow Weaver, the woman who has directly abused her her whole life

2. She wants to take down Shadow Weaver as a form of revenge and surpass her in the process

3. She want to prove to everyone in the Horde that she’s powerful and capable without Adora around (reminder that Adora said displays of weakness were a no-no at the Horde, so it stands to reason that being the best and most powerful is a goal ingrained into them as cadets) because Catra has been pitted against and compared to Adora her whole life (this ties in to Catra’s sidekick remark).

None of this excuses her actions, but it does explain her backstory and allows the viewer to get inside Catra’s head and understand why she does the things she does. It deliberately paints her as a sympathetic villain, because you understand her, and it makes you want to root for her.

Catra being sympathetic is a big thing to me, because it’s done on purpose. They’ve planted the seeds for a big redemption arc, one that may run the course of the show, and that’s something I want to see happen. A well done redemption arc is incredible to watch play out. And I’ll remind everyone that the crew has pretty openly loved Catra as a character, and they’re very invested in her as a character, and I personally don’t see how a crew with abuse victims on their staff would create an abusive character and then care about her so much. That goes double for catradora, they’re all interested in them as a duo and post art and content that toes very closely to the line of ship art, and I can’t see abuse victims creating a show just to ship a character with her abuser.

When it comes to Catra and catradora, there’s a few big important things I think people are ignoring.

- Catra has all the groundwork for a bigass redemption arc. It’s something fans have been expecting and hoping for since the first info about the show was released

- In order to get a redemption arc, she needs to do something that needs redeeming. Think of season 1 as Catra’s villain origin story. A redemption arc has no payoff if we don’t see their misdeeds. But Catra’s misdeeds aren’t a case of Cool motive, still murder, because nothing she’s done so far has such long lasting effects. She attacked some people with the Horde, of course, but also keep in mind that this is a kids show, where things like that have to be exaggerated so kids can see that they’re doing Bad Things (remember that time Zuko burned down a whole village, kidnapped Aang, attacked them all multiple times? And he has THE redemption arc every other one is compared to)

- This is only the first season! There’s so much story left to tell, maybe more backstory for Catra, more flashbacks detailing her experiences, etc etc. There’s something like 39 episodes still guaranteed to come, and I’m not expecting season 4 Catra to be the same as season 1 Catra. She’s going to change, her relationship to Adora is going to change, and I want that change to be positive. That’s a big draw for catradora: positive character development

- The crew has stated multiple times that Catra and Adora’s friendship/relationship is very central to the story, and that definitely shows in s1. Telling people not to like this ship is telling them to not fully engage with one of the show’s main foci (and there are definitely positive moments within all the hurt we see. They love each other, in an environment that doesn’t want them to)

- I haven’t seen a single person say that Catra and Adora’s relationship as is would be healthy and perfect. Everyone knows they have stuff to work through. What I have seen is people caring about both of them as characters and friends, people who love each other and deserve to be happy. People WANT a redemption arc for Catra, and they’re shipping Redeemed!Catra/Adora. They’re looking ahead down the path of character development and hoping it leads to romance, because it very well could. One of the big reasons people latch on to ships like this is that it has so so much room for growth and development, for them as individuals, and them as a pair. I know it’s illegal to talk about vo/tron, but you can compare it to people who shipped k/ance and a//urance after season 1. Neither had healthy romantic dynamics in the first season, but people were looking forward to growth and development, and shipping that. The whole point is that you want to see characters grow together. Development is half the point of storytelling. Romantic ships where they basically start out all happy and good are dull because they don’t have the same space for character growth and development. They’re static, they’re boring.

- The crew of the show likes catradora! They care so much about these two characters and their bond, and I don’t see a crew of LGBT people making a romantically coded dynamic between 2 female characters, hyping it up, creating content of the two of them, just to have one be an evil abuser

This is also where I’ll point out that many other antagonistic characters have been much beloved by the fandom and part of majorly popular ships

- Zuko: Zutara & Zukka

- Bakugo: Kiribaku

- Sasuke: Sasunaru or w/e it is

And you’ll notice these are moooostly m/m ships, and people still stan them to this day. But catradora of course is f/f, and we know f/f ships are subjected to much higher criticism than m/m pairings. In fact, the defense for Zuko and Bakugo is their traumatic abuse backstory, so the same should apply for Catra.

I’m also going to say, at great risk to myself, that I think the discourse around this ship is mostly happening because the current She-ra fandom is largely made of of (ex) v/d fans, where discourse was basically a hobby. And for good reason, there was a lot of dumpster fires in that fandom and show, but I think it’s resulted in people coming into this fandom just chomping at the bit to jump on some discourse and be the most Unproblematic and Self-Righteous. Am I basically vaguing myself by saying that? Yeah, kinda, but I’ll have to stand by it. We’ve seen so little of this show and people are already making major decisions about what’s ok and what’s not because they’re coming off of a fandom with a pretty shitty crew, and they’re expected to be hurt again. But the She-ra crew isn’t the v/d crew, and they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

This got really rambly and stuff but the point is, I like catradora. I want to see them grow and heal and love each other, because I care about both characters. It isn’t about shipping an angsty abusive ship, it’s about wanting them to find each other again without the toxic influence of the Horde.

#keke answers #spop spoilers #catradora #discourse #its under a read more but you know just in case #anonymous #ask #abuse mention

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