#also the selling points
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I used to copyedit 120,000 word super dense PhD manuscripts for 8 hours a day, five days a week, and now I'm like "what do mean you want me to copyedit 1200 sentences of catalog copy??? I'm gonna die probably"
#also the selling points#also i literally gave myself this job because i caught so many typos in last season's catalog#so when I'm whining that I'm whining it at me#idk man at my last job they had me - the in-house copyeditor - edit all the marketing materials#i got here where they have multiple in-house copyeditors and we're just sending catalogs out into the world unproofed!#hwaelweg's work life
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Final manifestations for Book 7?
I'm trying REALLY hard not to build up any solid expectations, because I wanna go in ~fresh~! they're already so far away from anything I thought would happen (not in a bad way, I'm just accepting that I'm on Miss Yana's Wild Ride at this point and we're seeing this thing through 'til the end, by gum). so it's nothing too major, but:
they've been handing new crying expressions out like candy lately, I want to see some delicious Malleus tears.
honestly I want everyone to cry buckets. their tears sustain me. the more Silver angst specifically I get the happier I am.
SILVER!!!! 👏 VANROUGE!!!! 👏
just let him have this. the poor boy's been through so much. let him have his big "I'm proud of you, son" moment with Lilia.
I'm 100% expecting Grim's arc (and probably whatever's going on with Crowley) to be its own episode, but a nice hook to leave us hanging on would be good!
a nice hook though, please, I don't think I can take another "Grim is attacking us! now wait eight months to find out what happens :)" cliffhanger...
some Meleanor? as a treat? just a little bit, a tiny quick flashback or something, please Twst I just, I just want to see her again. let her have a little ghost cameo like Dawnathan Knight got. Lilia and his kids are all having their big group hug or whatever and she can gently fade in to be all like
(turning asks off until I'm done playing, SEE YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE Y'ALL)
#art#twisted wonderland#twisted wonderland spoilers#twisted wonderland episode 7 spoilers#twisted wonderland book 7 spoilers#twisted wonderland episode 7 part 13 spoilers#twisted wonderland book 7 part 13 spoilers#one last chance for me to be wrong about everything!#(no it's good i am enjoying it SO much) (just stomping right down on all of my personal like buttons with its whole weight)#(it's just also VERY good at totally subverting all of my expectations)#i don't think we're actually gonna get a permanently dehorned malleus though#just because it feels like an insane thing to remove the most iconic part of one of the most iconic characters of the game#but i could see like...a temporary thing ala raisin vil#or a permanent smaller change like cracks/chips or something (kintsugi horns would be super cool actually)#but i do think it's more likely we'll find some way to keep the status quo re:horn design#if this was the END-end of all of twst then maybe but they still wanna sell merch of this guy so they can't change his design TOO much#i am sorta wondering if he might get a bit of a power nerf though? take him down from ridiculously overpowered to just normal overpowered#idk they made a point of saying the horns were specifically what caused the weather stuff#and the weather stuff has been called out in particular as one of the reasons why mal being so stupidly magical makes him pretty unhappy#everyone's scared of him all the time and he has to actively try not to accidentally kill people when he gets upset#so. idk. maybe it was just a little worldbuilding. but i thought it was interesting they brought that up was all!#me: i'm not going to form any expectations (writes a whole thing speculating on the fate of malleus' horns)#look it's now or never okay#that end of episode rhythmic better be SO cute because i'm already losing my entire head over this
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rhaenyra outsourcing motherhood to rhaena and assigning her that passive feminine role was REALLY interesting….. rhaenyra as a character is at her most fascinating when she is forced to navigate and ultimately perpetuate the gendered structures she despises and wishes she could transcend— the seeds of her tragedy already sewn here. just great character work
#esp because in the books rhaena is painted as the sweet peaceful girly girl to baela’s gnc rebellion#but woah it’s cool that theyre both actually straining at it. wah#it’s also very targ women can only escape the bounds of the patriarchy when they have their dragons and even then they actually cant.#like thats an illusion of freedom for the most part ☹️#hotd#hotd spoilers#obviously rhaenyra doesnt really have much of a choice here but thats the point it’s a system#and to have any power at all you will have to crack under the desires of that system and the whims of your stupid misogynist vassals#thats the rosby stokeworth thing!!!! ITS HAPPENING!!!!!!#what would you sell to break your chain. who would you throw under your wheels#god rhaenyra is just a triumph of adaptation huh. theyre gonna hit that swing into selling her soul so hard
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hijo de la luna
#okay FIRST off. song by mecano my friend said is soooo silver and it is. like. the story steers off his course but its still his song#SECOND. this isnt Actual hollow moon fanart but it is in my heart. ive reread ell's fic 3 times now and every time it kills me. KILLS#go read it. hollow moon by serenescribe. its a 40k oneshot of silver slowly but surely being moon snatched. its delicious#the tumblr crowd already knows how swagalicious ell is tho i dont need to sell it to u. the munchiest crunchiest writing ever. mwah#but yes. i want silver to be made of moondust. i want him to shimmer and glow white as snow i want him a MOON CHILD#also i do Not make OCs bc im not creative but i think his roommate is a vil fan and eats oatmeal and likes sil's birds#by proximity. doesnt care for animals otherwise. he also has a crush on silver he told me himself#twst#twisted wonderland#twst silver#if catríona suntails doesn't draw a dramatically lit background then what's the point#suntails
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Oh, help me God, this hellboy got me coming back for more
reblogs super appreciated !!! close-ups under the cut !
#south park#south park fanart#stan marsh#shroomer's art !#shroomer's archives: south park#shroomer's finished art !#artists on tumblr#my ramblings + thought process starts here (warning. its a lot) vvvvvvvvvvvvvv#"heyyyyy shadowww. its mee. da devil.#the amount of eyestrain i went through while rendering this#gradient maps!!! are so fun!!! (they are not i hate them so much)#lots to improve on still. but that's for next time!#the process of making this was so arduous.... but i learned a lot i feel#(and also if i had spent any more time working on this i would have actually lost it)#BUT YIPPEEEEE HAPPY BIRTHDAY STAN MARSH THE LOSER BOY I CANT BELIEVE I FINISHED THIS ON TIME#2 days in advance too by the time the queue uploads it#anyways.... stupid loser boy stan marsh..... i found out his birthday was coming up soon#and i had this idea sitting in my head for like.... 2 weeks i think#popped up when i was listening to lexie liu's album the happy star and the song diablo came up#and i thought wait.... doesnt stan get possessed by satan at some point#and so here we are!!#I ACTUALLY RECENTLY WATCHED THE EPISODE TOO AND THE THEME OF THE SONG FIT THE THEME OF THE EPISODE CRAZY WELL AS WELL#sometimes my genius is almost frightening#anyways this emotionally sensitive animal lover boy has really grown on me over the course of the series <3#i still havent.... finished cartman's sheet.....#the self designated deadline i gave myself of 2 weeks is coming up soon and erm. guh.#dies#this took so much effort and brainpower that needed to be allocated to my assignments.......#but its ok!!! im gonna sell this as a print!!! so its kind of!! productive!!#guh i hope this one performs well sob theres this nagging feeling i have that its not gonna do well at all
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I'd like to discuss the elephant in the room. Why did we get zero Loumand sex scenes? We got hints and implications, but season 1 was pretty explicit. Do we think that that's a creative choice or something else is happening?
I'm glad I ended up ruminating on this for about a week because episode 7 & 8 really solidified my opinion on it.
I do wanna start by saying that it's very clear to me that there was supposed to be more explicit scenes between them. There has been some thoughts tossed around that censorship happened with the 9 pm timeslot (as opposed to the 10 pm timeslot of S1). I believed this hearing Assad and Jacob talk about the BDSM dynamic between Louis and Armand, but what really sold me on this was Production Designer Mara LePere-Schloop talking about the bedroom set and more specifically about their beautifully carved custom headboard. (If you're a production nerd like me or just want to know more about the design philosophy of IWTV I recommend giving the entire thing a listen!).
I think there are several reasons I think as to why they decided to leave any more explicit scenes on the cutting room floor but above them all is: you cannot separate Armand's sexuality from his abuse. I am really against pulling a "well if you read the books" card but reading just the first couple chapters of "The Vampire Armand" makes me understand so much about not only Armand as a character, but the care being taken to his adaptation. It's clear to me that alongside Rolin & Co.'s commitment to not watering him down to a one-dimensional villain they are also trying to not fall into Anne Rice's tendency to romanticize his trauma.
Sex and sexuality is not the same pillar of Louis and Armand's relationship it was in Louis and Lestat's and so I don't believe their story suffers from the lack of on-screen sex. But I also firmly believe that maybe we don't need to be slutting out the character who we literally just watched talk about how he doesn't remember his life before being sex trafficked. And even when he was "freed" he was still being repeatedly assaulted at the hands of, and under the eye Marius de Romanus. Like it is extremely important to remember that Armand's craving for dominion in his relationships is a manifestation of trauma that deserves the same level of care and depth given to every other trauma portrayed in this show.
I think people have gotten too comfortable calling IWTV a romance when it has always been Gothic Horror. Romance and sex are pivotal to the story but I have found the demands for sex scenes this season a bit absurd and also? unfounded? Loustat share more kisses on screen but there are two sex scenes and both are very plot relevant. I truly figured we were all in agreement that the eroticism of this show is found in the various displays of power, and the dynamics it creates and not the actual clapping of ass-cheeks...which also wasn't happening in S1 either. S2 does not suffer because of the lack of sex-scenes, but the likelihood if it suffering trying to make one work is
#char.txt#interview with the vampire#iwtv#iwtv meta#loumand#the vampire armand#armand#answered#I didnt bring it up here just because this is really an opinion peice#but jacob makes a good point about because this is an interview with them yk still as a couple its also about privacy#its also just not the part they are trying to sell them on Daniel knows they are fucking we all know they are fucking#theyre trying to show that this isnt the stepford wives (it is)#ive written this response like 3 times trying to remove my disgust at the fandom from it LOL#but the way people have talked about this with armand has...really rubbed me the wrong way#like the more i learned about him the more sinister it kind of felt to be like ''well why arent the fucking on every surface''#IDK if you want the extremely personal and petty take too i will gladly give that
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You mentioned Branch is a lot more u in the AU he went with JD & Jade
Will this sweep Poppy off her feet perchance? 👀
To me Branch is always the one who falls first in every universe, their friendship and his crush would start in movie one and he’d be hardcore flirting and she just doesn’t notice because of everything going on
They would meet around the time OG Branch would’ve come to rescue her
At some point I'll clean these up and line them but I've been having entire arm issues so we got sketches rn
Things aren't all cupcakes and rainbows with the two of them, even with Branch not being gray he still harbors some worry and sadness which would end up being a point of conflict
Not shown to great extent here but his inability to see "the silver lining" would become a moment of conflict for them in place of singing killed my grandma
Also what Lief is doing during all of that:
He gets sent back to trolls village to help them hide from the Bergens while Poppy is away!
#dreamworks trolls#trolls#trolls oc#trolls au#trolls 3#n2 au#n2 explorer au#trolls broppy#trolls poppy#trolls branch#trolls oc lief#trolls oc smiggles#hes one of the crowd trolls lol#Lief and Branch got conveniently separated from John Dory#who has Rhonda so theyre just out in the wilderness#Branch is hyper protective at this point and really sent Lief back with the belief hed be safer in the village#than on a journey to bergen town#he not so secretly gave poppy the idea by begging her to ask him to leave#'hes just a little guy poppy blease'#he then has an absolute meltdown when creek (this guy he doesnt know) is revealed to be a traitor and a sell out#and now his lil baby nephew is in danger#not that he wouldnt be if hed gone with branch but thats not the point#this would be the other catalyst for Poppy going gray#cuz her two reasons were 'not being able to save the trolls' and 'branch was right about the world'#so Branchs meltdown about how terrible the situation is and his there are no silver linings mindset would set her down the sadness path#but then you know true colors#also branch is more positive than his og counterpart BUT#he also lost his whole family as a child and then his surrogate caretaker when Jade was snatched#i see his occasionally suave persona and his more positive attitude as masking all that mess inside#lief has a similar issue though his is more repression than masking
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★ 114 // “Holographic Sticker”
// This item will be available for sale during THE JOHNNYDROP™, my fundraiser sale to help me move! Drops 05.01.25 on my store.
#jjba#jojo's bizarre adventure#steel ball run#sbr#johnny joestar#offerings#tools used:#clip studio paint#I've been sitting on this one for months. I've had these stickers since last year and have actually been selling 'em at cons.#This art is actually one of the oldest Johnny's I've drawn! It's from October.#This was before I even finished SBR. Hell I hadn't even met Tusk at this point when I started drawing this LOL.#And here I was already making merch... so Johnnypilled from the start...#I have an ample amount of these bad boys but I may not do a reprint ever so if you want one be sure to act. ^_^#Also yes: the trans color palette was very intentional. :] This was right around when I started HRT and wanted to announce it.#I never really did go public? But this art was supposed to be The Piece I did it with.#So I guess let me announce it now: Hi. Bit late to say but. I'm on HRT if you didn't know and it's awesome. :]
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my cute lil melinoe and frinos stickers came in!!
I'll be giving these out for free at AX this Thursday at the XPPen Booth if you can guess who my favorite hades character is 😉 (or even just ask for it lmao)
#hades game#hades 2#melinoe#frinos#ryuunart#fav character hint: mILF— *SHOT*#also will be selling a slightly bigger version of this at some point for those who cant make it to ax!
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Not trying to be rude or anything but you shouldn't use the word 'manic' or 'manic period' etc. unless you actually have manic/depressive episodes because it downplays how severe those disorders can actually be. They're just words but unlearning harmful terminology like that can help destigmatise mental illness and I would hope youi would want to do that.
yeah it's almost like i used those words specifically because i DO understand how severe they are
#ramble#what's that post about how some people only see ideologies and concepts and not human beings#yes we should stop throwing terminology around like nothing but also#that is not the biggest problem neurodivergent people have right now#and also you're asking me to disclose my conditions to strangers so you can decide how i'm allowed to speak#also this isn't the point but i don't know anybody who uses the word 'manic' to describe their symptoms unless they have FELT IT#because it's. so specific and you do not use it unless you know what it means#for me a manic phase doesn't mean just a little energy buzz it feels like i'm on fire#anyway please don't waste your time sending me things like this because i don't like it#go after etsy shops who sell ocd merchandise not people talking about their own struggles
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just got to penacony !!!! i’ve been obsessively drawing the guys for the past few days lol
#if u look closely then you can see i gave them different eye highlights#sundays is crosses because biblical imagery#ratio is a plus and multiply sign#and aventurine is heart and diamond like card suits#also i literally have no clue what the background for aventurine is supposed to be#i was like “nicooo what should i do for the background” and they were like uhh uhh#and showed me a pic of some like squiggles ? looked like it was on the edge of banner art#so it’s probably aventurines banner art#but if it has another meaning#don’t assume i know lol#man it’s a yap fest down here#bonus points if you read my tags !#say squidward if u got this far /hj#tbh i don’t like the sunday one that much lol#i think his hair looks wrong#might redo it at some point in the future if i feel like it#i think aventio both look great tho#sunday and ratio have been made into stickers too#just for me and friends tho#i won’t be selling them#i’m gonna draw boothill next (whenever i meet him…)#and also a friend is gonna commission me to draw argenti !#very fun#thats my yap :P#dr ratio#aventurine#sunday hsr#penacony#hsr sunday#hsr fanart
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my turn to draw cute contextless kemonomimis of despicable people
#golden kamuy#gk#ゴールデンカムイ#usami tokishige#ogata hyakunosuke#koito otonoshin#kemonimimi#fanart#easily one of the worst things ive ever made. not quality wise maybe but in content. these are evil in my eyes#i do have outline-less transparent versions of these so if u need them for whatever reason feel free to dm#just ykno be normal about using them (credit/no selling/etc). basic etiquette and all that#im sorry if that first image is a complete visual mess by the way graphic design is Not my passion.#i also did not intend for the color scheme to turn out bisexual#edit: and also. if these don't look like 2010s girls toys mascots thats a point of personal failure here
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MELLOHIIZZ!!! DRAW ANOTHER ODYSSEY DUO AND MY LIFE!!! IS YOURS!!! /REF anyways odyssey duo has me in a chokehold i love them so much oh my god
hello i am so ill about them
#unstable universe#unstableverse#parrotx2#wifies#im not normal#odyssey duo#was planning on rendering this but well see#ugly crying please never separate them#also yall just selling me your souls at this point you need to calm down i dont need those/j#and i agree they have me in such a tight chokehold i cant live without thinking about them every moment of my life#☆ my art .#☆ request .
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did you know? he's the guy that sells houses
design thoughts under cut
he got hit by the kittification beam, i'm afraid it's terminal
another design! this means i get to share the song that inspired it
he's not wearing a suit because i wanted to have fun with his attire and the actual suit kinda bores me, he's got a retro futuristic suit now!
i did try and keep the colours and placements somewhat similar so it's not as different as it could be, plus the monochrome works out when the rest of him is super vibrant
speaking of, i'm not entirely sure what he looks like without his suit, probably just really green
glorp was like, the starting point, but another cat that came into play was mew because y'know, cute little space cat, best mythical pokemon in existence
his antennae glow in the dark, so do his irises. actually, a fair amount of him glows in the dark (green bits on gloves, star on chest, purple bits on his tail and boots)
eyelashes? whiskers? why not both? he's an alien after all, i added them in pretty early on in my initial sketch because i wanted his head area to have a little more visual interest and it kinda made sense since the eyes on his skin already kinda float off his head
smooth to the touch (though whether it's because you're making contact with fur or skin is up for debate because i don't know either)
not really pictured: quasar is tall as fuck because his body is so damn long
theoretical champion design thought: he'd have rocket boots! complete with boosters at the bottom to help with jumps
his design is meant to compliment peekaboo's! together, they are peesar (pronounced pizza)
that's not the reason i chose the name, it's the title of a song and i was like... sure that's spacey enough let's roll with it even though there's not much else that came from there for him
#parkour civilization#minecraft#hey how do i tag him#guy that sells houses#pretty cool that we get to name most of the cast ourselves but also oh god how do we tag them#this is another point in favour of i can't give evbo an actual tail because he's just a Guy#you will be made aware of music#am i going to go for that theoretical design in the future? idk don't look at me#the ideas come when they come
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yeah i agree with your point about survival mechanics and i feel the same way about the lack of combat mechanics. "why would an educated city doctor need a weapon" because shit is hitting the fan in every way impossible and pretty much everyone is walking around armed... also why am i supposed to believe the the fact that he's a man of intellect will somehow provide him with food? i don't think anyone is going to be too eager to share food during an outbreak intellectual or not...
+ follow up for the previous ask but actually my favorite quest from the original pathologic is the day 11 bachelor quest that involves shooting down soldiers. i think it really drives the point home about how this random fuckass guy who is supposed to be battling a plague doesn't even have the time to do that anymore because the people in charge are asking completely irrelevant things of him now and he's at a position where he cannot refuse what is being asked of him. like i think it was good storytelling that even as the guy who lowkey wants to deal with the plague and solve its mystery you still have other, more pressing, less interesting and or pleasant tasks to complete
i agree! honestly, i feel this way about the combat mechanics even more than i do about the physical survival (food, health, illness, sleep) mechanics. because sure, i can see how it makes sense for daniil's position of authority to mean that his basic needs are somewhat provided for -- although i don't think it makes more sense than what we got in the original game. i've never seen anyone bring up "isn't it kind of unrealistic that the bachelor isn't given lots of food during a massive food shortage?" as a plothole that needed to be resolved. the townspeople generally don't like him much, and most of the people with power don't either, except for the kains. sure, maybe it's kind of weird that you can go see the kains while broke and on the verge of keeling over from hunger, and they won't do anything to help you, but... the kains are pretty self-centered, and they're so goddamn weird that maybe they forget that you need to eat food to live anyway. and it's half-implied that the powers that be are ultimately giving daniil this role as a convenient way to kill him, so it makes sense that they would put no pressure on the town authorities to keep him alive.
(and honestly, artemy is taken under the olgimsky's auspices as much as the kains take daniil's under theirs! which is to say, selfishly, with ulterior motives that are more important to them than the well-being of their healer, but... the olgimskys are set up as the wealthiest of the 3 families financially, as well as the ones with the most access to food, given their control over the meat industry. so if anything it's "weirder" that artemy isn't more materially provided for, though to be clear i don't think there's an actual plothole there either way.)
but anyway, you could handwave it and say that daniil's position of privilege and authority gives him more perks than he got in the original game, but the amount of fighting you have to do to get through town is... kind of an unavoidable physical reality? like you're given so many sidequests that you often wind up walking around town after dark, and that's when the bandits come out. is the idea that the bandits would be too scared to attack him because he's so important? because that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, and even pathologic 2 establishes that he's seen as a valuable target by the bandits:
and then there's the quests where combat plays a more direct role in the story itself, like getting involved in saving andrey from the firing squad, or killing guards to break artemy out of prison, or the quest where you have to kill var in attempt to stop the arsonists (which i include on the same tier as the other ones because i really like the quest journal entry he has if you complete it where he blames himself for willow's death. it's a good character moment.)
hell, even in pathologic 2 itself, one of the biggest Bachelor Moments is on day 11, when you have that big dramatic convo with him after he killed a soldier for the papers he was delivering. plus one of bad grief's idle dialogues in patho 2 is commentary on the bachelor being "quick on the draw" and that he "already shot someone". like he just straight up is not living a combat-free existence. and overall, combat isn't just a good tool from a mechanical perspective, heightening the stakes and placing pressure on the player (though it is), it's also pretty important for him on a thematic level imo, almost as important as artemy and his "rivers of blood". in patho classic, daniil has this early interaction with the inquisitor:
which, thinking about it from a doylist perspective, was probably the writers' attempt to make it sound more plausible that this random medical researcher from the big city was competent with multiple types of guns. and i appreciate them coming up with that hint of backstory to cover their bases a bit, but with those bases covered, i think the fact that daniil ultimately spends more time shooting people than he does prescribing medicines for them actually does a lot for him thematically? i mean, if his whole thing is that he's this "tempted destroyer", someone who frames his career as a combative battle with death rather than a quest to save people's lives, whose "default" solution is to raze the town with artillery because he's too limited by his rationalist worldview and military upbringing (and bitterness over being manipulated and sabotaged) to come up with a solution that saves the any remaining infected survivors on his own. plus the way that clara frames artemy and daniil as two sides of the same coin in being violent destroyers and killers, who without player intervention will immediately devolve to running around chasing each other down in what's either an insanely dedicated tom and jerry LARP or some really elaborate foreplay. imo, that whole dichotomy (which is pretty core to the game, as the idea of dichotomies are core to it in general) works so much better with the way they're both presented in classic, stalking around with gun/scalpel in hand. hell, not to mention the effect that spending 12 in-game days trying not to starve and getting killed by bandits or guards or worms or soldiers every day would have on the player, and the way it would make them feel about the town and their natural projection of those feelings onto dankovsky, who is a perfectly fitting vessel for them as the avatar actually undergoing those virtual experiences.
ultimately i think they are mainly going this direction out of a desire to do something more creative and original, which is fine... it just seems a bit silly to me that they keep saying "well obviously that doesn't really work for the bachelor's scenario", when, well... even as recently as patho 2 in 2019, they seemed to think it fit his narrative pretty well! i'm also guessing that a lack of combat won't be that bandits are just no longer roaming the streets at night. it sounds more like pathologic 3 is set to be more of a nonlinear experience, where you'll probably fast travel from place to place instead of having to walk across town so much? so you'll be avoiding bandits just in the sense that the gameplay will be avoiding them. i guess i'm hoping that at the very least, there's still the implication of the crunch of not getting enough sleep or food and the threat of being stabbed to death while trying to get through town occurring to dankovsky in the background, even if those mechanics are deemphasized in favor of more macro-level town resource management, time control, and sherlock holmes fruit ninja or whatever the hell they were on about back in 2022 lmao.
#pathologic 3#i probably sound insane talking about pathologic 3 i'm like pleaaaaase let there still be violence in it 🥺#and tbf i dont think thats going to be a major lacking area; they're stringing up 12 year olds like party streamers in the fucking trailer!#but even before the trailer came out i was like i think its important that he still has to kill some people honestly...#my other wishlist thing is that i hope there's still moments where he gets btfo'd and it fades to black.#like the moment with the guards in the cemetery when you try to desecrate a grave or with the termitary on day 8#or with the soldiers on day 11 if you try to talk to them about andrey instead of reading a walkthrough and killing them in advance LOL#there's like 1 similar moment in artemy's route (when he gets put in jail) but i think its funny how much more often that happens to daniil#bro keeps getting his ass beat. and i hope it continues#on an upside i guess if they really are removing all combat it might bring a wider audience who hadnt played until now?#like i play plenty of combat-heavy games but a lot of times i get bored of it and a game having none of it is a selling point to me#like when i first heard about disco elysium it was marketed as this really cool game that had no combat and that's half of why i picked up#and tbh technically that wasn't true about disco but yeah...#also thanks for the ask!!!!#patho meta#mine#asks#pathologic
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Jason Todd's timeline and "Age"
So, there's a lot of discussion of Jason Todd's age esp as relative to other sidekick vigilantes, particularly Tim and Mia. I believe the exact words are usually something about a "grown ass man beating up/trying to kill teenagers."
DISCLAIMER: This particular post is specifically regarding the "grown ass man vs teenagers" statement, I have posts regarding the "tried to kill them" portion and other stuff like "seriously Jason Todd is like being shot by a marshmallow gun compared to what goes on directly before and after him in these incidents, also you don't bitch about the right stuff, also a lot of you prop up characters who are Objectively Worse, and no that's not hate on your fave it's just me calling out hypocrisy". It just takes time to find digital copies of the panels I'm using. NOTE I AM NOT JUSTIFYING HIS ACTIONS. I'm just saying y'all blow it out of proportion for petty character hate. Like, shit, they're superheroes. Jason's soooo fuckin' tame. He's not even framed as a big deal to the teens it's only the adults that think it's that much of a problem.
Courtesy readmore post cut:
Now, to start off, we all know Jason died at 15 & a few months off from 16 (if you want me to dig up panels, sure, but I figured at this point that wasn't in question). Tim at this point is somewhere between 12-13, and we have this panel in Lonely Place of Dying which takes place a few months later:
So that's a ballpark of 2-3 years between Jason and Tim.
But Tim's age is really fucky and they keep de-aging him tbh. We can extrapolate that his confrontation with Jason was between the ages of 16-17 bcs it's after the arc where he has his incredibly shitty 16th birthday in Robin Vol2 #116 and before Red Robin where he's stated to be 17. This would put Jason between 18-19 at the time. (If you really want me to find panel sources for Tim's birthday and his age in RR then, sure, but I don't think they're necessary. I used it more as a guidepost for Jason's age, since we have a clear idea of what the age gap is.)
At least, on paper.
Mia for her part I've had a hard time finding like, on panel mentions of her age and if anyone can direct me to it being explicitly stated I'd love that. I'm rereading old comics but it's a LOT of comics to hunt down & dig through. To my understanding she was fifteen when Ollie first met her, and there's at Minimum of about a year and a half between that to her meeting Red Hood, more likely at least two? because there's at least few months between that and her joining the Titans, the Doctor Light stuff, then One Year Later, and then returned to Star some 3 months after Ollie came back to run for mayor? And then Jason not too long after. So, two years feels safe. Puts her at 17-ish, Jason at 19-20
Once again, I specify: on paper.
People would happily point out at this point that the upward stretch of a 4 year age gap is a "huge gap in maturity." And yeah, under normal circumstances, I'd agree.
But, and this is going to get contradictory bcs I found Two different timelines (BOTH written by Winick, lmao), and depending on how you read it it could be up to three different possibilities. Let's Start with Batman Annual #25: Daedalus & Icarus.
Timestamp before Jason's resurrection, which is pretty well known at this point:
Next, him waking up from a coma afterwards, when he escapes the hospital:
Now the above could be interpreted as either 1 year after he died if we're assuming that it's using the same "start" point to count as the resurrection (unlikely), or one year after he came back (more likely).
Next, the timestamp right before a guy recognizes him and sells him out:
And, finally, the timestamp before being put in the Pit:
That is, count it up, between 3-3 1/2 years where Jason was dead, in a coma, or otherwise not particularly... cognizant of the world around him. His ass is NOT developing emotionally, socially, or mentally like this, which pretty handily bridges the gaps there. Taken at face value, Jason's maturity level is going to be, unironically, younger than Tim's in the wake of these setbacks.
Now, if we go to Lost Days issue 1, it doesn't specify how long he was dead, nor how long he was in a coma, so we'll just carry those two over, what we DO have is this from just after Talia brought him home:
This puts him as being on the streets for five months, so we're at just shy of two years so far. And then we have this:
Which is right before Talia puts him in the Pit.
So, in summary: 6 months dead, 1 year coma, 5 months on the street, and something like 1-1 1/2 years with the League which...
Actually puts us on almost the exact same timeframe either way. 3 to 3 1/2 years. It just changes whether Jason was on the streets or with the League for longer.
And is utterly incomprehensible because comic timelines are a freaking nightmare.
If we're being generous, then that would put Jason at a minimum of 19, maybe toeing the line of 20 for UTRH, again, on paper, because like hell are you convincing me he did less than a year's worth of training abroad throughout Lost Days. Yeah maybe they trained him in fighting while he was catatonic, muscle memory and all that. But the other teachers that we KNOW of? The bombs, guns, probably something to get him up to date on handling all that tech we see him using, Egon, potentially arguably All-Caste if you want to draw from n52...
but you'd have to knock at least a year and a half off of his internal/personal development from death & coma, at minimum. Maybe you could argue he was somewhat developing while in his "the lights are on, but nobody's home" phase, you can't say it's at the same level as a normal person might when going about their day to day life, and it's difficult to measure. But he's not hitting the kind of milestones that he should be for his age. I wouldn't put him at anything less than two years behind. So if we use our upper estimates on Jason, and lower estimates on both the developmental setbacks and Tim/Mia's ages that gives us:
Jason toeing 20, mentally 18, fighting Tim at 16. 2 year gap, kind of stretching the physical age gap if we assume Tim had just barely turned 13 when he showed up to be Robin. - OR LESS
Jason maybe 21, mentally 19, fighting Mia at 17, two year age gap again. Honestly, still not that big of a difference - OR LESS
And, to be frank, that's not even counting the mental development issues that come from the intense physical trauma from dying - and I swear to fuck don't give me the "He's not the only one who died he's not special" speech.
HOW MANY OF THE OTHERS YOU'RE USING AS A GOTCHA LOST, *GESTURING AGGRESSIVELY ABOVE*, LITERALLY MULTIPLE YEARS OF THEIR LIFE.
Not counting adults, of course. Barry lost years, Hal lost years, Ollie I think also lost a couple years? but A) they came back still adults, bodies pretty much the same. B) While Jason's body didn't go through a magic growth spurt in canon, it did still grow esp while with the League.
I'll eventually get around to Titan's Tower & GA#72 (tbh, there are other people who've already done Titan's Tower and it'd probably be better than what I do, so I'm more going to focus on the latter, but there IS a specific part of the former that drives me nuts that I don't see brought up a lot), and maybe if we're feeling spicy all my issues with UTRH starting with how Winick is just as guilty of retroactively writing Jason as being inherently a bad penny since his Robin days as any of the other "modern" writers. Like, bud, Severe enough Head Trauma is legitimately enough to change someone's personality, not to mention trauma. It wouldn't hurt your narrative for that eerie difference, the Shade of What Once Was if you're really going for RH being Like that.
Final addition: I swear to god if you use my post to start up some kind of petty-ass ship war or flame other characters I will immediately turn off reblogs and replies I am Not Dealing With That Shit, please and thank you.
Anyways, @glitter-stained, your interest made me decide to actually put the work in now to pull it up rather than passively gather stuff to dump whenever discourse pushes me over the edge so, here ya are. Looks like you did have it closer on the mark than I did.
#dc#Jason Todd#I guess#because frankly I'm sick of this. Learn to use content filters and grow up.#Typically I try to practice what I preach and I'm very liberal with filters and blocking ppl. But Sometimes Temptation Seizes Me#Note that I'm trying to be rather Watsonian with my technicalities but I've got the Doylist angles in my head too.#Stop using a character as a gotcha to shame people you're not endearing anyone#Mia is a genuinely really good character and trying to sell her as a better alternative while bashing the characters ppl do like#does not fucking work you idiots.#Have you never worked in sales? it's Sooooo easy to spin#“Hey do you like this character for x & y & z? I have another GREAT character you'd love and has the benefit of ALSO being Q.”#positive reinforcement is always a more effective recruitment tactic than haterism#I'm already regretting this#I decided not to tag the other two bcs at this point I expect any tagged post to get messy and adding them is just inviting it to be worse
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