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the-monkey-ruler · 11 months ago

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I recently got my friend to start watch Lego Monkie Kid and as we’ve been watching it I’ve been explain Journey To The West to him so he has more info and context for what’s happening in the show (even if everything is not jttw accurate) I’ve been trying to figure out how to explain Erlang to him but I don’t know enough about the guy to really do that could you share some info and cool facts about him?

I would not being doing the man justice even if I were to write him a 50-page essay going into his lore, history, impact, and overall importance to the Chinese mythos. But I shall try to sum it up in a tumble post.

Erlang Shen is one of, if not THE, greatest hero of Heaven and arguably the strongest god in the pantheon. His power and skill are only matched by his intelligence and merit. As such he is the perfect rival and sworn brother of Sun Wukong. An amazing foil to the character (I have talked about their foils here and here and here would even recommend looking at these posts if you want more information about him!)

He is a god with a wide range of responsibilities, including the god of water, the god of hunting, the god of national protection, the god of Cuju, the god of drama, the god of children's protection, the god of farming, etc. He has MANY legends that cover his origins (one being that he is the son of an engineer and helped create waterways) but his most popular legend is without a doubt the one highlighted in Lotus Lantern where he is the son of an unsanctioned marriage between a human Yang Tianyou and a goddess Yunhua Tiannu. This was the most popular version of his mythos, always spread in popularity because of FSYY and Xiyouji, thus further solidifying this as a most well-known and widely accepted background.

Sadly, when Heaven found out about the marriage they attacked in arrested his mother leading to his elder brother Yang Jiao and father being killed. Erlang and his younger sister Yang Chan were able to escape death or capture but his mother Yunhua was put under a mountain for her crimes of abandoning her post and hiding a family. His sister Chan and himself escaped and trained under an immortal master and in a short amount of time, while he was still in his youth as a young man, he became powerful enough to fight his Uncle the Jade Emporer (please keep this in mind that in a few years he fought WITH THE JADE EMPORER to save his mother). Details get fuzzy here as some legends have it that she was saved and others say she died in the crossfire but personally, I think that he freed his mother from her imprisonment.

It is because of this attack that he is known a bit as a rebel and follows his own sense of justice. He never involves himself in conflicts unless he is personally asked or he personally believes that the offender is in the wrong. He understands when Heaven must be questioned but also personally has experienced what it means to break Heaven's laws, seeing how his own mother broke Heaven's rules and this crime led to the death of his father and brother. He is always considered to be one of the most loyal and trustworthy heroes in myth as people worship him for such reasons.

It’s only really when the Lotus Lantern myth that was created far later in his mythos does he get to play the antagonist where his own sister Yang Chan commits the same crime as their mother by marrying a human, abandoning her post, having a child and hiding it. And Erlang has to be in the same role that his uncle was and face the issue of punishing his sister for the crime their mother committed. He leaves her husband and son alive while putting his sister under a mountain and guarding her and this really could show a greater depth of his character how he never really processed his father and brother's death and rather continues the cycle of abuse, which I think could be a very interesting conversation. It makes him really multifaceted in how he responds to seeing his sister repeating their mother's crimes and him resenting his own godhood and what trauma it has caused him. That is getting into my own personal interpretation of the character but in either case, he gets defeated by his nephew Liu Chenxiang (also known to be Wukong's disciple in later interpretations) and his sister freed.

But in regards to Erlang's connection in Xiyouji we see that Wukong is supposed to be in the wrong at the start of the novel. While yes he was being given a lower rank and not invited to the peach party he still trashed the party, ate all the peaches, ate all the immortal pills, drank most of the immortal wine, and waged war on heaven. You can have your own take on right or wrong in this case but Wukong was trying to do all this for his own needs, he wasn't trying to change an oppressive system, rather he was trying to be IN CHARGE of that oppressive system, claiming he wanted to be the new Jade Emporer. This was not a rebellion to put a new order in place, but Wukong forcefully tried to be the head of the same order that was 'oppressing' (I say that loosely) him. (please note that this has changed with modern media to show Wukong as a freedom fighter but this is a newer interpretation). Erlang was never put in charge of the fight against Wukong but rather it was a Hail Mary hope because Erlang Shen could have chosen to deny the order if he didn’t see that it was fair.

Erlang was not going to get involved until Guanyin herself had to convince the Jade Emporer to swallow his pride and ask his nephew. Erlang doesn't get involved in heaven's conflicts easily and must be addressed personally if he were to get involved, and even THEN he has the power to deny the Jade Emporer if he sees fit. But Erlang agrees to fight Wukong, not because he was paid to do so, but because it is believed that he does it out of his own sense of justice and believes Wukong is genuinely in the wrong in this war. They have a battle of equal strength, both pushing their 72 transformation abilities to the limits, the only two in all of heaven with such powers and such the only two in heaven that could fight each other. And while it is hard to say who would win, Laozi used the diamond snare in the middle of the battle to capture Wukong and Erlang and Wukong's battle came to an inconclusive draw.

It is the next time that Wukong and Erlang meet in Xiyouji during the Nine Heads Demons fight and Wukong calls Erlang his sworn brother, saying that he has a huge debt to him. It is believed that Wukong is thanking Erlang to sparing his family on Flower Fruit Mountain instead of following the Nine Generations Rule. This rule has it that any criminal's family was to be executed with the criminal as well and Wukong adopting all his subjects as his family would understand that all 47,000 of his monkeys would also sadly be killed when he was to be executed. The punishment for heavier crimes would not only kill your family, but also to destroy your home and salt the earth, your immediate neighbors would be punished, and even the ministers responsible for the region would be punished and demoted.

However, while Erlang Shen did burn Flower Fruit Mountain we saw that not all of Wukong's family died, meaning that Erlang went against Heaven's law and instead spared what family he could. While you can make your own judgments about the burning, Wukong seems to understand that his family was meant for complete annihilation but saw that rather many of his monkeys were spared and he still had a home to come back to. Whether this is because Erlang Shen knew what it was like to lose a family or that he thought that the Nine Generation Rule was too harsh is hard to say. But in any case, Wukong shows great thanks to Erlang to going against the order and calls him brother in their latest interaction. We rarely get to see gods being in an antagonist role and seeing how both Sun Wukong and Erlang Shen can play both hero and villain depending on what kind of story they are shows not only the complexity and depth of the characters but also shows that these are the most humane gods that are in the heavens, and also why I think they are some of the most iconic, and still beloved figures in media.

In short, Erlang Shen is to be seen as a great and just hero but also is allowed his own human flaws and is just as complex as Wukong if I can so say. He has gone through many changes but his most popular interpretations of him have him show his human side again and again, a god that is to be the most powerful but can never escape that he is a creation of an illegal union. That not matter how high he is in the heavens he never stops being one of the most human gods.

#ask #erlang shen #yang jian #yang chan #lotus lantern #xiyouji #jttw #journey to the west #sun wukong #liu chenxiang

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kakyoinmybro · 20 days ago

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Xiwang Mu

I made some notes for Xiwang Mu a while ago cause I was super interested in her, I forgot I made this but i'll post it anyways even if its not finished: with both yang and yin, sun and moon, life and death, reveals the goddess's control over the universe. Her link to both yin and yang also suggests androgyny, completeness, and independence. The Queen Mother's usual anthropomorphic attendants are minor deities known as blue lads and jade girls, or followers seeking immortality. In the clay brick from Szechwan, two seated or kneeling female figures, perhaps goddesses, appear in the lower right corner, and two male figures, a deeply bowing attendant holding a jade tablet and a standing guard holding a halberd, fill the lower left corner. The Szechwan tile shows the goddess ruling alone above a hierarchy of spirits. In other contexts, such as the reliefs at the Wu Liang offering shrines and at I nan, she is accompanied by her divine consort, Tung Wang Kung (the King and Sire of the East), who is also called Tung Wang Fu (King Father of the East). She is yin to his yang; the pair embodies the divine marriage that creates the world and keeps it in balance.

Han poetry. Han poems agree with other sources in depicting the Queen Mother as a goddess of longevity living on a magic mountain. Ssu-ma Hsiang-:iu's (179-I I7 B.C.) Tajen fu (Rhapsody on the great man), written between 130 and 120 B.C., portrays her as an old hag. (The fu was a literary form special to the Han that mixed elements of prose and poetry and is often translated as "rhapsody" or "prose-poem.") A part from his humorous tone and clear delineation of age, Ssu-ma's description matches that found in the Classic of Mountains and Seas. The goddess wears a sheng headdress in her white hair and dwells in a remote mountain cave, where a threelegged crow brings her food. The poet comments: "If one were to live without dying, even for a myriad generations, what joy would one have?" (SC, 1 1 7.3060). Through satire and rhetoric, Ssu-ma Hsiang-ju criticizes the cult of immortality and warns the emperor, the "great man" of the title, against wasting his energy in vain pursuit of the worthless gifts offered by this old witch. Yang Hsiung's (53 B.C. -A.D. I S) Kan ch'uan fu (Rhapsody on the Sweet Springs) commemorates an imperial sacrifice to the supreme heavenly deity known as T'ai I or Grand Unity. The long poem takes its title from the Sweet Springs Palace to the east ofCh'ang an, where the ritual was held. Yang Hsiung glorifies Emperor Ch'eng (r. 32-7 B.C.), whose sacrificial procession and ceremonial performance he compares to the shamanistic journeys of the "Elegies of Ch'u." He praises Emperor Ch'eng's palace, likening its building$ and grounds to the goddess's estate on Mount K'un-Iun. Amid purple and turquoise palaces stand gardens planted with jade trees. There stands the Queen Mother of the West, attended by jade maidens and river goddesses. The narrator visualizes her during his ascent to transcendence. "Thinking of the Queen Mother of the West, in a state of joy he makes offerings to obtain longevity" ( WH,

Ia-I4b). Yang emphasizes the adept's flight to immortality with the aid of the goddess. Han dynasty literati venerated the Queen Mother of the West as a major deity who dwelt in heaven, dominated other spirits, controlled access to immortality, and promised ecstatic flight through space. 30

Han works in the Taoist canon. The history of the Taoist religion begins in the second century with the risc of two schools: the Celestial Masters or Five Pecks of Rice school in Szechwan and the Great Peace school around the capital city ofLo yang. They have left few surviving texts and fewer references to the Queen Mother. In fact, no contemporary record of either popular or elite cults to the Queen Mother during the Han dynasty survives in the Taoist canon. The earliest reference to her found in the patrology may be a line in the T'ai-p'ing ching (Classic of grand peace), a text originating in the Celestial Masters schoo!. One line in a section of the classic entitled "Declarations of the Celestial Masters" reads: "Let a person have longevity like that of the Queen Mother of the West," a phrase almost identical to Han mirror inscriptions.31 The Celestial Masters school connects her with long life but shows the goddess no special reverence. Han texts in the canon neglect a cult other sources show to be widespread and continuous, centered on a goddess who was to become one of the highest deities. This may result from attempts on the part of early Taoist leaders to reform the native religions of China. Such tendencies may be seen in efforts by the Celestial Masters to eliminate ancestor worship, blood sacrifice, and monetary payments to the clergy. The Queen Mother's later readmission to the divine hierarchy of the official Taoist church would then represent one of the many victories of the native religion. But the goddess herself changes under the impact of the Taoist religion, as we shall see. . Shang Ch 'ing Taoism, Paradise, Local Cults: The Six Dynasties Shang ch'ing Taoism. The most important development concerning worship of the Queen Mother of the West during the Six Dynasties period was her incorporation into the religious system of Shang ch'ing Taoism. The school takes its name from the highest of three heavens where its gods dwell: the Realm of Supreme Clarity. This new lineage absorbed many archaic goddesses worshiped in earlier eras, such as local deities of the rivers and lakes. Alone among them the Queen Mother remained powerful and active rather than subservient. But her nature altered to suit new needs. Shang ch'ing Taoism originated with revelations from the highest

Humans also have her. She resides in the center of a person's right eye, where her surname is Grand Yin, her name Mysterious Radiance, and her cognomen Supine Jade. A person must obtain the King Father [described in the previous entry as the primal pneuma of blue yang, the precedent one of the myriad divinities, who resides at the magic island of P'eng-lai in the Eastern Sea] and the Queen Mother and guard them in his two eyes. Only then will he be able to practice pacing the void, observing and looking up, and with acute hearing and eyesight distinguish and recognize good and evil. Then he can cause to flow down the various deities, just as a mother thinks of her child, and as a child also thinks of its mother. The germinal essence and pneuma will obtain each other, and for a myriad generations he will prolong his stay.

#taoism #xiwang mu #demonic cultivation #chinese #mythology and folklore

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schhwifty · 6 months ago

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The Royal Sorcerer Navlaan

Due to Royal Sorcerer Navlaan being today's subject of crackpot connections and speculations, I'm going to give a heads up on some referencing and structure to prevent possible confusion For matter of context and understanding, I'll be referring to the 'Good' side of Royal Sorcerer Navlaan as The Sorcerer and referring to the 'Bad' side as Navlaan. As for the structure - everything is structured in the order of what I found interesting while investigating, which usually isn't how I structure these segments, and I thought it would be fun to switch things up to see how it flows A fair warning, you may have some "But wait!" moments with how information is provided as this segment progresses and I reassure you it's all part of the process Everything will make sense later. Hopefully.

With all that said And so, here we go!

Part I: Navlaan's 'Murder List'

Let's take a look at the list of individuals Navlaan wants the Bearer of the Curse to un-alive

Navlaan: "I want you to kill a merchant named Gilligan. A greedy, foul man. He won't be missed, I assure you. Hmm…Yes… Bring me a Ladder Miniature as proof."

Laddersmith Gilligan

Gilligan mentions he's a fugitive from lands West of Drangleic, so, if memory serves correctly the lands in the West that are not 'very far West' of Drangleic is Volgen Volgen is also mentioned by other characters as being in the West and very merchant focused

Via his dialogue: '"I'm on the run, don't give me away! You're a fugitive too, eh?"' '"Huh? No, I wasn't born here. I'm from a wee bit…I'm from a wee bit out west, that's all."' "You wouldn't believe the shenanigans that happen in my business. I thought at least here in the middle of nowhere I could stay clear of, you know, my auld pals."'

Gilligan sells an assortment of bleed focused items such as Lacerating Knives, Bleeding Serum, and Claws along with the Thief Mask and the Black Leather Armor set I think these items could connect to his "business" with the "auld pals" he mentions, and the fact that he's a fugitive on the run However, to be fair, when he says "business" he may be speaking literally and referring to being a merchant, so, I think it could be interpreted either way

He also has a Melu Scimitar, which I think he may have stolen from somewhere or someone in Volgen Per its description: 'Nothing notable about this weapon, except perhaps the luxurious jewels embedded in the hilt'

Navlaan: "Your target will be Cale, the man who's drafting that map. While I was trapped in here, he touched me, that maniac, like I was some rare specimen. He wore a strange helm. Bring it back as proof."

Cale the Cartographer

Mr. Cale is from Mirrah, fond of maps, and wants to make maps Via his dialogue: '"I am a traveller, like yourself. I'm navigating the continent to create a map."' "I was born in the land of Mirrah."'

His memory is foggy in regards to why he came to Drangleic and why he loves maps The lack of memory isn't unusual as almost every character Bearer of the Curse talks with mentions experiencing memory loss shortly after arriving in Drangleic, and they seem to retain the main reason behind their journey without remembering the finer details of why they're doing it

Cale's armor set mentions being 'of a light Mirrah foot soldier' and he 'procured this inexpensively second-hand', so, I think it's fair to speculate Cale could be a Foot Soldier Scout from Mirrah because keeping track of the lands traveled and being a Scout go hand-in-hand I also think Cale being sent to Drangleic to obtain a current standing condition report, layout, and mapping of the land is a reasonable possibility

An interesting note - Cale uses an Uchigatana when attacked and there's no way to obtain it because he doesn't drop the weapon when killed and he's not a merchant, so, he doesn't sell it either

Navlaan; "Your target is Felkin, the hexer. As proof, bring me that peculiar sceptre of his. But he will be formidable. Be cautious."

Felkin the Outcast

There's a lot of really interesting information and connections between Felkin and the The Sorcerer / Navlaan

Felkin attended a "great school in the South", which I assume is Melfian Magic Academy due to Melfian being South of Drangleic per mentioned by Carhillion and Rosabeth being from there as well

Via Felkin's dialogue: '"I w-went…I went…I went to a great school…in the south…But neither sorcery nor pyromancy appealed"' "I-I learned nothing…nothing at all…I-it was there that I happened upon the Dark. It drew me in…The nebulous Dark…Soon, I was drawn to this land, where Dark runs deeper than anywhere else."' "Hexes ar…are more than mere tools to me…I feel affinity…and warmth…Something universal, nostalgia…even…"'

Something interesting to keep in mind for later - Felkin created the Dark Weapon, Resonant Flesh, and Resonant Weapon hexes

Felkin sells the Archdrake Chime and Archdrake Staff, two items not easily obtained due to being given to Archdrake sect members of Lindelt, and he also sells the Ring of Life Protection The ring's description mentions: 'Divine ring that watches over one's life. Created by the students of Ivory Rhonnes, sage of Lindelt.'

An interesting note - The only way to get the Chime, Staff, and Ring from Felkin is via trade because he does not drop them if killed

When attacked, Felkin uses the Sunset Staff which is a Staff 'said to have been forged in Aldia' He also equips a Chaos Rapier and Chaos Shield for melee combat, which is very interesting because both items belonged to Navlaan in the base game before the item descriptions were changed in SotFS to fit Felkin's lore The Chaos Rapier and Chaos Shield are also dropped by Enhanced Undead located within Aldia's Keep

Navlaan: "I want you to kill the girl in Majula known as the Muse. They say that she is the last Fire Keeper. But they say a lot of things…That she's a gentle shepherd, lighting the way for you cursed fools. Nonsense. Once she is dead, I will have no regrets, and I will be content to remain here. The girl will have a peculiar feather. Bring it to me."

Shanalotte / Emerald Herald

There's a lot that can be mentioned for Shanalotte overall, however, for sake of focus I'll keep it simple by staying limited to her dialogue and because it ends Part I

Via Shanalotte's dialogue: "Bearer of the curse. Long have I awaited one such as you, one who might shatter the shackles of fate. One who can set me free."' "My journey is already complete. My name is Shanalotte. The dragon gave me this name, for I was born with none. I was born of dragons, contrived by men. By ones who would cozen fate herself…They are the ones who created me. But they failed. I did not come out as intended. Fate would not be bested, and men were cursed once again."'

Part II: The summery focus and reflection on who is the Sorcerer known as Navlaan

And so, here we go!

First, let's begin by taking a look at these items Navlaan has available for trade

Moon Hat

Astrologist's Set

Thunder Quartz Ring+2

Great Magic Weapon

Strong Magic Shield

I believe these items provide enough to speculate The Sorcerer spent some time within Melfia attending the Melfian Magic Academy I also believe he had met Felkin (before Felkin became an Outcast) at Melfian Magic Academy, and possibly studied Hexs with Felkin before Felkin had left the Academy

The Sorcerer had an interest in the art of resurrection and created Scraps of Life and Darkstorm, the two Hexes that lead to his exile then execution along with his entire village

For context and understanding:

Right?! How is this feller still causing havoc if he was executed is exactly the same thing I thought too!

Well, I found some nifty nito info about that

!!!!Something Worth Mentioning!!!!

The descriptions of Scraps of Life and Darkstorm can understandably come off as confusing due to referencing the existence of Navlaan being executed and not The Sorcerer being executed, while pretty much all signs point to The Sorcerer being executed before the known entity Navlaan appeared I think this is just a simple reference thing, like, they wanted the reference to be directly known and when the player meets The Sorcerer he is The Royal Sorcerer Navlaan, so by directly using the name Navlaan it's easier to make that connection If they had phrased it as 'The Sorcerer' or 'A sorcerer' instead of Navlaan then it would have been confusing due to there being many sorcerers within DS2 both literally and in mention

!!!!Okay Moving On!!!!

When Bearer of the Curse finds Navlaan sealed within Aldia's Keep his skin is blue like a Fenito He's not a Fenito, though, and this is something I am certain of Without going into another full segment on why, I'll keep it simple by stating the most direct "hard" backing evidence being Fenitos are not living Humans or livng beings to begin with and were created (all signs point to Nito being their creator, however, it doesn't state that right out) to watch over the dead, particularly the Undead Crypt in DS2 However, the Fenito being 'not living' beings while also not Undead Humans and have blue skin, is worth noting

Moving on!

The hood Navlaan wears provides some interesting information to consider

Chaos Hood

The rest of the Chaos Set doesn't state much while also providing a lot

Now, with everything previously mentioned so far considered…

I believe Navlaan could be a sentient soul accidentally created by The Sorcerer during his study of resurrection, and that soul possessed the body of the The Sorcerer after he and his entire village were executed

The Sorcerer partially resurrected himself through hex magic and it created Navlaan with Navlaan now being a part of The Sorcerer's soul

Circling back to the Chaos Hood and it's description, let's hammer out some notes worth considering

-The description of the Chaos Hood states its wearer as being 'a chaos sorcerer' and uses 'the man' as reference instead of Navlaan or the title of Royal Sorcerer

-The rest of the Chaos Set, that the Chaos Hood is part of, provides a context delivery like it's a deceleration saying the chaos sorcerer is no longer just a chaos sorcerer, He is now known as Navlaan

-The mention of sentient magic in a form of a question provided me with the interpretation that 'the man' (aka The Sorcerer now Chaos Sorcerer before becoming known as The Royal Sorcerer Navlaan) spoke of sentient magic and the sentient magic being Navlaan (The Sorcerer confirms he sealed himself away and goes into detail why, which I provide later)

-If we were to consider the possibility of Navlaan being a form of sentient magic, it is worth considering the possibility Navlaan is using the body of The Sorcerer as a catalyst to survive, which brings me to this interesting point - when Navlaan is aggro'd and attacks he is able to cast hexs without the use of a Staff or Chime Also, if The Sorcerer's body is being used as a vessel and catalyst that may explain why his skin is blue because the body is more so being used as a tool than being a living being

Now this crackpot is cooking! So, let's keep going

If we take the Affinity Hex into consideration, the possibility of a sentient magic or sentient sorcery seems more likely than not

Affinity

As I mentioned before, there's dialogue provided by both The Sorcerer and Navlaan which is important and provides direct information The Sorcerer speaks to Bearer of the Curse while in Human form, as Navlaan speaks while in Hollow form

Via their dialogue:

(The Sorcerer) "P-please, just stay away." "No, please, don't come near me. Nothing good will come of it." "Just leave me alone, please." "Leave this place, and leave me be, as I'd not see any harm befall you" "I haven't said anything strange, have I?" "I have absolutely no intention of leaving here."

(Navlaan) " This? This contains my power." "Long ago…This…naive vessel of mine set about devising new spells. The fool dreamt of bringing new forms of magic into the world. But instead, he created me. Mostly by chance, but he did a fine job, I must say. What he sought was strength. And so, I decided to demonstrate. While my vessel slept, I'd find my mark, and hunt him down. But my vessel did not approve. And so while I slept, he sealed the both of us away." "Now, I don't have anything against humans, but how is it that you go about defining good and evil? I'm only using what the Gods gave me. How can that be so wrong?"

So, yeah, there's a lot of straight to the point information there and, in my opinion, it all supports the speculation of Navlaan being some kind of sentient sorcery or sentient hex that's using the body of its creator to roam the world hunting down and un-aliving its 'marks' Also, the line "I'm only using what the Gods gave me." is quite peculiar, however, if we consider how soul sorcery was created and how hexes are also a form of sorcery then, well, Navlaan's point technically isn't incorrect with how he uses something that that Gods created to kill his 'marks'

And…we've reached the halfway point! Nice! Don't worry! The last two sections are not as long as the first two Still, though, feel free to get a drink and some snacks or use the bathroom if need be

…

Anyway, moving on!

I'm sure you're wondering just as I did at this point - How did The Sorcer Navlaan end up in Aldia's keep?? Good question! And the good question leads into the next section!

Part III: The Sorcerer seeks resurrection, finds Royal Chaos

The word Royal is seemingly applied to a certain type of individuals within DS2 while not being the same as DS1 or DS3 in meaning, and holds more of a connection to Knights, Guards, Warriors, and pretty much anyone serving some kind of military-esc importance for a King or Kingdom To be a Royal Sorcerer, one can speculate that the title would pertain to someone who's a Sorcerer serving directly to or under a King or King's order in consult, creation of magic, battle, and possibly all of the previously mentioned

However, there's barely anyone with such a title or position and there's other individuals of title and status who hold important positions to Kings and Kingdoms such as Chancellor Wellager

So, who the heck was The Royal Sorcerer Navlaan royally working for?

Spoiler: I didn't find out

Although, due to a good chunk of consistent information, I was able to connect many points then come to the speculation The Sorcerer may have became close with Aldia to the point of reaching 'Royal' status while being one of Aldia's Chaos Sorcerers, and then in turn went from being The Sorcerer, to Chaos Sorcerer, and final forming into The Royal Sorcerer Navlaan

Also, something I mentioned previously which feels like way back at this point, we know Felkin the Outcast was in Melfia before traveling to Drangleic We know Felkin also has various items directly tied to Aldia's Keep along with some of those items being created at Aldia's Keep

So, here's my crackpot speculation right off the bonfire;

The Sorcerer reached a revered position within the Melfian Magic Academy eventually becoming interested in methods of resurrection using sorcery, he studied with Felkin at some point which would have influenced the interest in hexes, hexes being sorcery of the Dark, and the Dark being a known source of power to bring back life even if Undead or otherwise Any sorcerer using or interested in hexes or dark magic were met with harsh scolding by other sorcerers and the Melfian Magic Academy with cases like The Sorcerer leading to eventual forced exile Now exiled, The Sorcerer continued his study in resurrection with sorcery and hexes until being executed with his entire village, which lead to the birthing of Navlaan from the creation of a sentient magic in either hex or sorcery form attaching to the The Sorcerer's soul, and Navlaan possessed The Sorcerer's not-living and not Undead body

Still with me? Okay good! Let's continue

Then, post-exile & execution The Sorcerer now existing as one with Navlaan, he traveled to Drangleic along with Felkin because Melfia certainly wasn't a safe place for those who dabble with hexes, and Felkin directly states within his dialogue "I happened upon the Dark. It drew me in…The nebulous Dark…Soon, I was drawn to this land, where Dark runs deeper than anywhere else."

Once in Drangleic, I think both The Sorcerer and Felkin eventually met up with Aldia or were drawn to Aldia due to Felkin being drawn to the Dark, which I also think Navlaan shared in feeling as well Felkin eventually leaves Aldia's Keep taking the various items with him (Chaos Rapier, Chaos Shield, Sunset Staff) becoming an 'Outcast' The Sorcerer remained within Aldia's Keep acquiring the Chaos Set becoming The Royal Sorcerer Navlaan (similar to Aldia's warlocks / Prowling Magus) and helped Aldia with various experiments, pyromancies, weapons, and I'm inclined to believe Navlaan had a hand in creating Shanalotte (Don't worry! We'll get to that in a bit) Eventually The Sorcerer becomes aware of Navlaan un-aliving people and seals their body within Aldia Keep locking them both in place until Bearer of the Curse rolls in to say "Holla!" and either leaves them sealed away, kills them, or let's them out which allows Navlaan to continue his murder spree

Speaking of murder spree!

The Royal Sorcerer Navlaan has Zullie the Witch's set available to trade except for the Black Witch Domino Mask and Black Witch Veil, which are only obtained from defeating Phantoms in Belfry Sol

Due to Navlaan having a thing for invading and murder, I'm inclined to think he has Zullie's armor set because he killed her and could have possibly killed Alva the Wayfarer too, after Alva had 'relinquished his knighthood' and joined up with Zullie (mentioned per the Alva Armor set)

Side note: Within DS3 the Locust Preacher's dialogue mentions '"One was a wayfaring knight, on an endless, forbidden search. Only the Abyss granted closure, if not reunion with his beloved."' The dialogue seems to be directly referencing Alva as the 'wayfaring knight', as well as Alva invades as a Red Phantom within The Ringed City directly nearby The Black Witch Set However, Navlaan having the Black Witch Set and the Black Witch Set also being present within The Ringed City makes things conflicting, unless Zullie had more than 1 set or something?

Anyway No distractions!

Now back to the murder spree stuff And so, let's go!

Part IV: Giving Thanks for Murder

Let's go over what Navlaan gives 'in thanks' for fulfilling his requests on unaliving people Or…not actually killing the 'marks' and bringing him the items he asks for as 'proof'

Dispelling Ring

Navlaan having this Ring makes sense, in my opinion, due his Chaos Set having high Fire, Dark, Magic, and Lightning defense along with Poison, Bleed, Curse, and Petrification resistances Having this ring adds onto all that protection, which makes sense to me because Sorcerers are all about that power and protection especially in DS2

As to how he may have acquired it; Olaphis existed during the time when Bastille (known as Lost Bastille when Bearer of the Curse shows up) became overflowing and many sorcerers with pyromancers were pushed to the South, so, I think it's possible this ring made its way to Melfia and The Sorcerer (before Navlaan's existance) either bought it, found it, or stole it

For context: the Warped Sword description mentions 'A curved sword forged from the soul of the Flexile Sentry…The sentry crammed inmates of the overflowing Bastille onto a rickety ship, and cast them out to the open sea. The majority of them drowned or starved, but a few hardy survivors made land to the south, and imparted their knowledge of sorcery to the people there.'

Simpleton's Spice

The benefit of 'this spice makes a chosen spell attainable with 1 less intelligence' is great for any spell user, however, I think the requirements for using it is more intriguing

The Simpleton's Spice needs to be brought to Magerold of Lanafir for it to be used, and Magerold mentions via his dialogue: '"I'm mainly a treasure hunter, you see. I'm only a merchant on the side."', and the Traveling Merchant Coat Magerold wears mentions 'Lanafir is the farthest land to the south and follows a strict edict of isolationism. The rare visitor from Lanafir is always a little odd.'

Magerold is also very aware of Petrified Eggs, one being on a Dragon Shrine (which Magerold knows about) within Dragon Aerie (a place Magerold must have had access to at one point or at least knew about along with where the Petrified Egg was), and he offers Bearer of the Curse to join the Dragon Remnants covenant if Bearer of the Curse gives him the Petrified Egg

Being how involved Aldia was with Dragons and Navlaan working with Aldia at some point, I think it's possible Magerold may have crossed paths with Navlaan within Aldia's Keep while Magerold was treasure hunting throughout the lands

Forbidden Sun

Not much to say about this other than although it doesn't directly mention Navlaan creating the pyromancy, I think it's reasonable to speculate he had involvement with its creation because it was 'developed in Aldian rites.' and 'What could possibly justify excessive destructive power? In all likelihood, the madmen of Aldia never even questioned the need.'

Unleash Magic

If the Forbidden Sun pyromancy wasn't enough of an example, destructive sorcery and pyromancy that comes with a cost and required sacrifice to create is nothing short of a common occurrence from Aldia and within Aldia's Keep

Now, let's take a look at the items Navlaan requested as 'proof' then determine if he cared more about the murder of those individuals Oooooor If there is more to why he wants the items than he's letting on…

And so, let's go!

Ladder Miniature

I'll be direct with ya, I have no clue why Navlaan would want this other than a keepsake trophy knowing or thinking Laddersmith Gilligan is dead The description mentions it 'is sold at an exorbitant price', however, I get the impression something like that isn't of Navlaan's interests Navlaan mentions the Ladder Miniature being a 'trinket', so, I'm leaning more towards it's just a trophy of success in un-aliving one of his 'marks'

Cale's Helm

The helm doesn't look like anything special and the item description pretty much states the same by mentioning 'Apparently Cale procured this inexpensively second-hand, but it's surprisingly well-made.'

However, the Helm does something that is rare within any other gear in the game - it gives +2 to Dexterity and +1 to Endurance Navlaan also directly mentions the helm and calls it 'strange', and let's be honest here anything that's strange to Navlaan is likely really something odd or unnatural However, considering the stat increase isn't directly mentioned with the item description it's uncertain if Navlaan would be aware of this and the argument can be made on this being an unsupported speculation

Sunset Staff

Via the Staff's description mentioned previously, it was 'forged in Aldia' and is 'particularly powerful for casting hexes., while being able to cast sorceries as well When Navlaan tells Bearer of the Curse to kill Felkin he doesn't mention anything about Felkin or any regard to why and that Felkin is a "formidable foe", which is very different than when Nvlaan speaks of the other individuals he wants dead I think that's because Nvlaan having Felkin as a 'mark' is personal

The Sunset Staff also mentions 'Those invited to the manor disappeared, replaced over time with malformed beasts that roamed its halls.' I'm inclined to believe Felkin became an enemy of Nvlaan when Felkin had left or escaped Aldia and Aldia's Keep taking various items and knowledge of the Dark with him Even if Nvlaan is capable of casting Hexes without the need of a Chime or Staff, having the Sunset Staff in his possession would be another powerful item within his repertoire

Aged Feather

Wanting this item is self explanatory because of its ability to be used repeatedly as a means of quick-travel, which is likely how Shanalotte was able to travel long distances quickly

If you release Navlaan from the sealed barrier his dialogue will be the same regardless of if you complete all of Navlaan's requests of murder-death-killing

(If you're Human and release him) The Sorcerer: '"By the very gods…What have you done…You've really done it…You'll never escape him…"'

(If you're Hollow and release him) Navlaan: '"Hmgh…I hope you appreciate the ramifications. Well, no matter. What's done is done. Besides, I've found myself a new mark…Gah hah hah…I'll spend some time travelling the lands…Slowly tracking my new mark…"'

Nvlaan will then invade at various locations throughout Drangleic if Bearer of the Curse is in Human form This happens if we complete his tasks or not and I still believe having an item like the Aged Feather would only support Navlaan's thirst for murder throughout the lands

Also, I believe wanting Shanalotte dead could be a personal matter because of how he speaks about her within his dialogue For context: '"Once she is dead, I will have no regrets, and I will be content to remain here."'

The 'regrets' Nvlaan speaks of could be related to what Shanalotte mentions within her dialogue: "I was born of dragons, contrived by men. By ones who would cozen fate herself…They are the ones who created me. But they failed. I did not come out as intended."

For a relentless murderous blood-thirsty entity like Navlaan having a regret to the point where he's not content until it's dealt with tells me Shanalotte means more than a mark or regret, she's a failure in his eyes and erasing that failure feels better to him than knowing she's still existing within the world

And that's it! You made it to the end.

This entry in my crackpot connections and speculations was rather lengthy, and that's something I do not regret the slightest because I had a lot of fun putting it all together and typing it all out For me, this kind of stuff feels like I'm going about a short journey of adventure to hopefully find new and exciting things

If you enjoyed this or it has helped you in one way or another that's an extra bonus flask of Awesomesauce Estus for me

However, if that's not the case, that's okay Simply being here for the ride is fun too!

Until next time!

#Dark Souls 2 #Royal Sorcerer Navlaan #Crackpot #Speculations #Soulslore

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josefavomjaaga · 2 years ago

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Eugène on the capture of Malta

Somebody committed the grave error to show interest in Eugène’s memoirs … so I thought maybe there is some more interest somewhere out there. Most of what Eugène writes is very brief, it’s possible that this was only a first draft, outlining the events, to be elaborated on later. Which never happened, due to Eugène’s death.

I’ll start with the departure of the French army for Egypt. For context: Eugène (16), had just returned from another journey that had taken him on Napoleon’s orders to Corfou, Naples and Rome (where Napoleon’s brother Joseph held the post of French ambassador and where he had witnessed anti-French riots and the death of a general who should have married Napoleon’s ex Desirée Clary).

I accompanied the ambassador [Joseph Bonaparte] to Paris, where I stayed for some time; since, in the first days of April, I received the order to leave, with several of my comrades, for Toulon. General Bonaparte arrived there on 9 May; eight days later, we were embarked on board the one hundred and twenty-gun ship Orient, and on 20 May, all the ships of the fleet set sail. It was a magnificent sight to see more than four hundred sails, protected by thirty ships of the line or frigates, sailing away from the shores of France to chase the glory and hazards of a distant expedition, the aim of which was still unknown to most of us.

At the end of twenty days, we arrived at the sight of Malta, and, the next day, after some talks with the city of Valletta, we disembarked at two different points, to the east and west of this place, at the same time as another column was also making a landing on the island of Gozo. I was sent, on the morning of 11 June, to General Desaix, and, in the evening, to the chief of brigade Marmont. I was with the latter at the moment when the garrison made a fairly large sortie; it was repulsed with some casualties; five flags were taken from the enemy, and I had the good fortune to capture one. After the affair, I was charged by the chief of brigade Marmont to carry the five flags to General Bonaparte, who was on board the Orient. The following day negotiations with the place were started, and we entered it on the 13th.

The general-in-chief visited the fortifications, and I remember very well hearing General Dufalgua, commander of the army's engineers, jokingly complimenting him on the fact that someone had been found in the fortress to open the doors.

And I can just see one 16-year-old sous-lieutenant being all shocked by this. Treason? When he had just been so proud of the French army gloriously defeating the enemy?

Also interesting to note: There was a time when Marmont and Eugène got along just fine.

#napoleon's family #eugène de beauharnais #Auguste Marmont #Egyptian campaign #Malta 1798

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sketching-shark · 2 years ago

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What do you think of the show's portrayal of Wukong and Macaque's relationship now? I know before you've brought up the possibility that Wukong simply doesn't care about Macaque. But now we know that isn't true. Those two were basically living on FFM as one big happy monkey family. And now we know that abandoning Macaque is one Wukong's regrets. Not to mention all that stuff about Wukong promising to live forever on FFM together with Macaque, and Wukong imprisoning his brothers in the memory scroll. With this new context, I wanted to know what your viewpoint is on all this.

Spoilers for Monkie Kid & general kvetching below sdfewaf

I have to be honest anon their relationship as it currently stands is somewhat giving me whiplash on account of the fact that we've got Sun Wukong not caring like at all about Macaque exploding in season 1 (and not seeming to realize that him literally killing his past BFF would have influenced Macaque's hostility in any of their previous encounters) to him betraying the shadow simian apparently being one of the great regrets of his life, but I guess Macaque has with this new context been proven to be a little more consistent in that him being BFFs with the Monkey King before Sun Wukong betrayed him does explain his desire to tell anyone who will listen what a terrible person Sun Wukong is, and I guess it does provide a slight explanation for Macaque going out of his way to repeatedly beat the tar out of Qi Xiaotian for the crime of Associated With Sun Wukong. And this does confirm that the lego show decided that their versions of Sun Wukong and the Six-Eared Macaque would deviate completely from the og classic in favor of the currently popular trope of "wah we were besties but then we weren't because it turns out the 'hero' suuuuuuucks & also the 'villain' ends up warping his/her entire life around hating/getting back at the 'hero' but for some reason this is considered a good foundation for rekindling a relationship." Fully aware I'm an outlier here, but needless to say I'm not a fan aweageraw.

I guess at the end of the day I'm not really liking this change not simply because of my love for the og classic (and the really interesting implications about morality and identity that underlay the True & False Monkey King arc) but because I feel like this turn to a currently popular story type is really limiting these characters' potentials. It's like now their relationship is just another example of how Sun Wukong hurts literally everyone around him, while Macaque is once again confirmed to have basically nothing going for him outside of Sun Wukong's influence.

And yes, OF COURSE any retelling of an old story is going to deviate sometimes significantly from the work it's based on, even if and sometimes especially if it's a sequel, as with Monkie Kid. And when you're working with something like Journey to the West, while I still think some of the best adaptations are those that stick closer to the source material, such changes can be a good thing. I mean, I've joked enough how what with this being a children's show you wouldn't want to stick to a Sun Wukong who smashes people into meat patties! But at this point it almost feels like with fanon & increasingly canon insisting on these two being the Most Important Person to each other & also for Macaque to be the completely wronged party that their conflict just makes for one monkey that has 0 identity outside of the other while the other is little more than a selfish ass. I mean hell, it's even got to the point where the current writer of Monkie Kid felt compelled to go on twitter to drop the big spoiler that Sun Wukong is NOT Qi Xiaotian's bio dad, and while we can speculate why he did this it seems at least part of the reason was because a not insignificant amount of people were saying that on top of all his other screw-ups Sun Wukong is a deadbeat dad. But then again, why wouldn't they? Monkie Kid has been hammering it in time after time again that basically there isn't a single person, least of all the Six-Eared Macaque (the definite show/fandom meow-meow), that Sun Wukong hasn't hurt horribly from being impulsive and thoughtless and selfish, so why would anyone think differently in regard to his relationship to Qi Xiaotian? Add all of that to the uber-violent betrayal of all his brothers that he apparently didn't do anything about even millennia after the fact, and you can see why parts of this fandom have been primed to believe the worst about Sun Wukong. Really does make the popularity of scenarios of him rekindling his apparently deep past relationship with Macaque kind of baffling.

Of course, it does need to be acknowledged that even now we don't have the full story, and that Sun Wukong's failure to defeat the Jade Emperor (despite the Azure Lion K.O.ing him in one hit) was compounded by him being literally tortured into becoming heaven's lapdog and betraying his brothers. And who knows! The Monkey King's eyes glowing gold in all of the past scenes after he gets the headband could be a hint that it wasn't just torture through a massive headache but also some version of mind control, kind of like how his eyes glowed blue when he was being possessed by the Lady Bone Demon. But either way we still have no idea what Sun Wukong's perspective is about any of this. We only know that his brothers saw him surrendering to heaven and AGREEING to serve the Jade Emperor to save his own hide, and that even after the headband was taken off he did nothing to try to save them from the scroll. This isn't the full story, but that's what we have to work with.

ANYWAY, even with this context I still think that the best thing that could happen with lego Sun Wukong & Six-Eared Macaque is for Sun Wukong to find a way to fully embrace the fact that *lego Batman voice* just because you lose people doesn't mean you stop letting them in even though a lot of people won't ever forgive you and that's okay, and for the Six-Eared Macaque to find a way to start carving his own identity outside from being the guy violently obsessed with Sun Wukong.

#monkie kid #monkie kid spoilers #anon answered

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if-you-fan-a-fire · 3 months ago

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"...in 1884, the DIA [Department of Indian Affairs] announced that it would be opening new boarding and industrial schools in British Columbia. In the early 1880s, only seven federally funded mission schools were operating in the province, including boarding schools at Metlakatla, Port Simpson, Yale, Chilliwack, and Mission, with a total enrolment of 544 students, 322 boys and 222 girls. In the opinion of local DIA officials, Metlakatla was the most desirable spot for an industrial school because it already had the necessary infrastructure. It was also the epicentre of growing Indigenous resistance on the Northwest Coast.

Though the conflict at Metlakatla in 1882, tensions persisted in the community and surrounding area. Indigenous Peoples were frustrated at the failure of government to prevent further settler encroachment on their lands. In response, Ts’msyan and Nisga’a citizens created new political organizations to fight back and assert their sovereignty. In fact, DIA officials who wanted to open new schools on the Northwest Coast often heard complaints from parents, including, “what we want from the Government is our land, and not schools.” Moreover, news of the 1885 war between Canada and the Métis and allied Cree, Assiniboine, and Saulteaux communities made its way over the Rocky Mountains. W.H. Lomas, the Cowichan Indian agent, confirmed the growing danger:

Rumours of the Metlakatla land troubles and of the North-West rebellion have been talked over at all their little feasts, and not often with credit to the white man.

Lomas warned that the provincial government’s disregard for Indigenous Peoples was tantamount to playing with fire and that action should be taken immediately to dissuade further dissent and prevent a general uprising. The “smouldering volcano” of Indigenous-settler relations once again threatened to erupt. Settler fears about Indigenous resistance, as Ned Blackhawk argues, directly inform colonial policy. In this context, and with Duncan out of the picture and Bishop Ridley in charge, the Metlakatla school was retroftted to become the province ’s first official industrial school.

John R. Scott, who had taught in Australian schools for Indigenous children, was chosen as its first principal. When he reported for duty in 1888, he found its condition unsatisfactory. There was no furniture to accommodate the pupils. After securing proper lodgings, Scott toured neighbouring communities to convince Indigenous parents to send their children to the school. He travelled to Fort Simpson and Kincolith and also visited a number of fishing camps along the Nass River. Of his journey, he wrote:

At these places I called at nearly all the huts and houses, and wherever I saw any children I explained to their parents the objects of the school and the provision made by the Government for educating Indian boys.

Some parents were interested, but Scott’s efforts were mostly met with indifference. Unfazed, he took in four boys, and two more pupils followed shortly thereafter. On May 13, 1889, he officially opened the Metlakatla school with just six students. By the end of the year, fifteen boys, four Nisga’a, eight Ts’msyan, and three Haida, were attending. Ottawa soon deemed the Metlakatla experiment a success and began preparations for new schools in the province. As in the colonial period, Anglican, Methodist, Presbyterian, and Catholic missionaries competed over newly available federal funds. Given the widely known difficulties with mission day schools, Powell proposed that boarding and industrial schools be established in strategic locations throughout the province as “the more desirable and advantageous course.” Considerable debate ensued among the churches and the DIA about the number and most suitable locations for such schools, with Powell and Indian agents relentlessly lobbying the DIA. In the end, three schools were established in 1890: Kamloops in the interior, Kuper Island, of the east coast of Vancouver Island, and Cranbrook in the southeastern mainland. Allocated per-capita grants of $130 per annum per pupil based on annual attendance, all three were run by Catholic missionaries and staffed by the Oblates of Mary Immaculate. All three were also situated in areas with significant Indigenous opposition to colonization.

In the late 1870s, Kamloops was identified as a hotbed of discontent over the provincial government’s land policy. In the summer of 1877, when two reserve commissioners arrived to investigate Secwépemc complaints, they quickly received of an alarmed telegram to the Indian Branch in Ottawa: “Indian situation very grave from Kamloops to American border – general dissatisfaction – outbreak possible.” Kuper Island and the parts of Vancouver Island that were located in the Cowichan Indian Agency also had a reputation for resistance. Most notably, Indigenous Nations were angry over the state’s attack on the potlatch, a ceremony and important economic gathering that Ottawa outlawed via an 1884 amendment to the Indian Act. In the late 1880s, the Kootenay region was also seen as troublesome. In 1887, provincial reserve commissioner Peter O’Reilly, Trutch’s brother-in-law, laid out reserves in the Cranbrook area in an unsatisfactory way, and Ktunaxa citizens, particularly Chief Isadore, were dissatisfied.

A detachment of the newly formed North-West Mounted Police (NWMP) under the command of Sam Steele was sent out from nearby Lethbridge, Alberta, as a show of force to deter further conflict. As tensions eased and the police were redeployed, the barracks that had been built for them were updated “for industrial school purposes in the interests of the Indian children.” The fact that Indigenous children were to be institutionalized in an old NWMP barracks established to check the power of their parents confirms that the structures of settler colonialism in British Columbia developed in the shadow of colonial conflict over the land, as Blackhawk shows was the case in the American West. Indeed, the principal of the Kootenay Indian Industrial School, Nicolas Coccola, acknowledged that when the school opened in 1890, the Ktunaxa were “on the eve of breaking out into war with the whites.” State schooling thus emerged in what Blackhawk calls the “maelstrom of colonialism.” The new school system was tiered, and the funding available to schools depended on their rank and utility to the DIA. At the bottom of the hierarchy were the Indian Day Schools. Given their high rates of irregular attendance and inability to separate children from their parents and communities, they were seen as inefficient but still necessary stop-gaps. Thus, most day schools received only a few hundred dollars of federal funding, barely enough to cover a teacher’s annual salary. Paying the remaining costs was left to the churches. Nevertheless, by 1890, ten were in operation, mostly on the coast, at Alert Bay, Bella Bella, Clayoquot, Cowichan, Hazelton, Kincolith, Lakalsap, Masset, Nanaimo, and Port Essington. By 1900, their number had jumped to twenty-eight in all parts of the province. Securing regular attendance remained an issue, however. In 1884, Harry Guillod, the Indian agent for the West Coast Agency, informed the DIA of a disturbing incident:

Rev. Father Nicolaye has had trouble with the Indians. He, as a punishment, shut up two pupils for non-attendance at school, and some sixty of the tribe made forcible entry into his house, and three of them held him while others released the boys … It is very uphill work trying to get the children to attend school, as the parents are indifferent, and are away with them at other stations for months during the year.

Far from being agnostic about schooling, Indigenous parents organized against the teacher and advocated for education on their terms. Gwichyà Gwich’in historian Crystal Gail Fraser notes that Indigenous parents often “understood the implications” of Indian education “while demonstrating their awareness that their complicity within the system did not equate to unqualified approval.” Parents and guardians actively negotiated their circumstances and “proved remarkably successful in their capacity to transform, to greater and lesser degrees, emerging state structures and policies around schooling.” Still, such activity convinced the DIA that boarding and industrial schools were necessary to separate children from their parents and communities to facilitate re-education and assimilation.

Indian Boarding Schools, originally designed for younger children and located on or near Indian reserves, were a step above day schools in the DIA ranking. According to state officials, they had the advantage of being able to house children and establish some distance from parents for much of the year to disrupt Indigenous lifeways. Indeed, Métis historian Allyson D. Stevenson argues that “disruption and dispossession figure prominently in the colonization of Indigenous kinship.” Their per-capita grant was usually in the range of sixty to eighty dollars, and some also received free or cheap land grants to open new facilities. In 1890, boarding schools were operating at Coqualeetza, Port Simpson, Mission, and Yale. The All Hallows Boarding School at Yale originally accepted Indigenous and white pupils, the latter mostly the daughters of Anglican families in the Diocese of New Westminster who were unhappy with the non-denominational public school system being implemented across the province. As Jean Barman writes, All Hallows was unique in that it was both a boarding school for Indigenous girls, complete with DIA funding, and a private Anglican school for white pupils who paid fees. By 1900, there were seven boarding schools, with new institutions being established or recognized by the DIA at Alberni, Alert Bay, and North Vancouver. Most incarcerated Indigenous children from many different Nations from across the province.

The highest rank in the new system was reserved for the Indian Industrial Schools. The first schools were mostly paid for by the federal government, but an Order-in-Council of 1892 shifted substantial costs back to the churches. Missionaries were now expected to operate the institutions on per-capita grants that were below the then-current level of expenditure, usually $130. The government assumed that teaching would be done on a volunteer basis or would be covered by churches. The inadequate funding simply exacerbated existing problems. Nevertheless, by 1900 new industrial schools at Alert Bay, Coqualeetza (which was upgraded to an industrial school), and Williams Lake joined Metlakatla, Kuper Island, Kamloops, and Kootenay. Within twenty years, the number of Indigenous children attending federally funded schools of all kinds – day, boarding, and industrial – had doubled, reaching a total of 1,568 by 1900."

- Sean Carleton, Lessons in Legitimacy: Colonialism, Capitalism, and the Rise of State Schooling in British Columbia. Vancouver: University of British Columbia, 2022. p. 121-126.

#british columbia history #indian residential schools #kamloops #metlakatla #settler colonialism #public schooling #missionary schools #nineteenth century canada #history of education #settler colonialism in canada #day schools #indigenous people #indigenous resistance #indigenous history #first nations #academic quote #reading 2024 #lessons in legitimacy

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justanothersxf · 4 months ago

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Okay whatever, Spy x Family 100 exists. Not as dark as Tista, still. But pretty clearly leaning into the stuff that Endo likes to write about lol, I can only imagine how satisfying it is for him to depict how easily and violently life can be stolen away.

But I'm sorry, all I can really imagine is what the hell is Becky's response to this? Like I really can't take this violent part as he clearly wants the audience to because of that initial context, so I'm just kind of imagining like:

It was fine in Twilight's flashback because it was uninterrupted until the end so there was no reference to what it was being framed with, plus as a dream he was having he wasn't divulging personal topics to anyone but himself. Here though Martha was like. Originally telling Becky about the same things Henderson was reminiscing about with the housekeeper but their story is going on for so much longer and about much more sensitive topics, so all I'm thinking about is how this is supposed to end back in the present lol.

I still think M99 was good, all because it gave a bit more context to Donovan Desmond. Knowing that he's lived through two wars, and that he has always accepted that people's lack of trust in each other contributes to perpetual conflict, goes a long way to giving more context to his behavior in the present, despite the fact that he has had way too little focus over the course of 100 chapters. At the very least, it's actually easier now to speculate that his goal in the present is unlikely to be reigniting war. There's more to say about him and his actions and relationships when looking back at his appearances and mentions as they span the story.

But I can't really say the same for M100 because it's a rough set up chapter that exists to explain "how did Martha get back?" and according to the next chapter preview for M101, the first couple of pages at least will focus on "the long journey home". But to me, there's not much point to closely following her story from here on now that she's been cured of her xenophobia since we already know that she eventually did make it back, didn't marry Henry, but ended off decently as the live-in nanny to the Blackbells. (Though that detail is a little peculiar now given that he used Martha's past to display just how brutal the war is, but flashback's not over yet so I'll wait for Endo to make it make sense.)

Oh, I guess people really liked the part with Anabel, but for me it's simply too short to really add anything new that hasn't been touched on before. Anabel herself feels like just a milder flavor of Advisor's dad with regards to the anti-war sentiment and "there's people on both sides (but especially Westalis which has never been explicitly shown doing things to actively incite war btw) who hate war itself and see their 'enemies' as human" messaging.

Even the page layouts are similar, geez...

One thing I will point out though is that the VIZ English translation for M100 left out a bit of important context on Anabel's snide comment to Martha when she tells her to stay hidden.

In the original, Anabel says that the east is "also" a pathetic country instead of just saying that Ostania is pathetic for putting Martha on the front lines. So she is at least critical of Westalis as well even though Martha is still bitter about it. It probably could be corrected to, "What a pathetic country Ostania is, as well."

Overall I can't really say much about the chapter. It was fine I guess, just not great. I still think the highlight of this "arc" is probably Donovan's appearance in 99. Maybe Endo can still do something interesting with Martha if he tries to connect her to one of the other main clandestine organizations in the story in addition to being employed by the Blackbells, but as simply a vehicle to show more of the past conflict between East and West, I don't think she works that well. And I think a lot of it is because we really did not get to see as much of Westalis as we should, plus we're still lacking a lot of context for what was going on in Ostania during the second war.

I hope there's another twist or turn waiting at the end of this flashback because I really do want to see what the significance of knowing this is, but I think for now I'll just keep my expectations low.

#sxf spoilers #maybe i should post my impressions sooner #actually i really should post them sooner that's why they're impressions duh lol #but i also think sxf is best enjoyed after mulling it over and combing through the details #like ppl who rush to post “BEST CHAPTER YET” or even “WORTHLESS AXE SOON” are fun to observe #but i think i always get more out of the subsequent looks at the chapters than i do from the initial #that's what makes sxf so special to follow lol there's almost always something new to find on the reread

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loverofstufflof · 6 months ago

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Ooh! Ooh! I have other sources! These are all primarily Journey to the West related, assuming you’re looking for sources related to that Mythos in particular!

Journey to the West Research (who also runs a Tumblr account by the same name that I won’t tag because I don’t wanna annoy em) compiles and condenses a lot of JTTW and JTTW related information! If you can’t find yourself reading a proper copy of the book, or just really need to locate one specific fact, this guy’s probably got you covered!

If you’re looking to see how other people have adapted the mythologies, @the-monkey-ruler (sorry for the tag) does a lot of JTTW mayhem, but they also act as a pseudo-archive for anything remotely JTTW related. Sometimes, they’ll even translate it! A great source if you want to see how people reimagine their own culture into modern media.

Overly Sarcastic Productions on YouTube are great if you what to get the BROAD STROKES. Like, you’re just diving in and wanna get a gist. Do NOT use them as a primary source, and ALWAYS check with another source before using what they say as fact (I love Red and Blue dearly however sometimes they make mistakes and people don’t think to check!)

Books! Just general books! Any sizeable bookstore/library should have an entire section dedicated to religions and religious history. These areas are usually oversaturated with Christian stuff, but there’s a pretty good amount that are Confucian/Buddhist/Taoist focused! I’d recommend Big Panda and Tiny Dragon by James Norbury (Buddhist), Tao Te Ching by none other than THE Lao Tsu (Taoist), and unfortunately I’ve had little luck finding Confucian texts (whoops). There are definitely some on my shelf but it is late and I am lazy.

Other journeys! Did you know that there are tales of all four directions? That’s right! Journey to the South (Nanyouji), Journey to the North (Beiyouji), and Journey to the East (Dongyouji) are all stories from the same era. About widely different things, of course, however they do give a wider impression on the culture and religion at the time. South even features Sun Wukong and his kids (don’t ask)!

Speaking of the other journeys, there’s a noncanon sequel! Best described as “The First Xiyouji Fanfiction”, A Supplement to the Journey to the West follows Monkey’s worst fever dream. Even if it was canon, it wouldn’t be, because everything is a dream sequence. It’s incredible. Monkey was tripping balls.

And, I know Gremlin said to just read Journey to the West (which is true it’s great), if you really want a good analysis of it, reading through the introduction of Anthony C. Yu’s revised translation is great at giving cultural and mythological context. Really enjoyed reading it. (This link is also just the entire first instalment for free because public domain).

Finally, of course, actual Chinese people. In my experience, merely bringing up the fact that I’m interested in Journey to the West and researching its history will have you conversing for hours. People are very happy to talk about their culture, so give them a chance to!

I believe that’s everything I’ve personally used! Happy researching :3

Top five Chinese mythologies source that you used for your fic

Oh boy I don't think there's 5-

Uhm~! Let's see:

1: Lego Monkie Kid.

Kinda self-explanatory; Peach Blossom Jade tries to be as canon-compliant as possible. And the way they've explained the Journey To The West story has been fascinating as an adaptation. I'd never known about the Journey To The West before LMK, and it's gotten me fascinated; LMK is the first true hyperfixation I've had in about 10 years and it's been marvelous. ♡

2: Journey To The West

With Peach Blossom Jade changing RADICALLY from its' original draft, I ended up looking into powers and abilities from JTTW and I realized that there was more than one Samadhi Element, which meant that there had to be 2 or 3 Elements other than the Samadhi Wind and the Samadhi Fire. And that's how I came to make Yuan. At the time I had no idea what the other Elements could possibly do, so Yuan became the wielder of the Samadhi Water. I've since figured it out, and the Samadhi Earth has actually been used by the main cast twice now! :3 But JTTW helped me create the other two Celestial Primates, and helped me figure out what to do for the final fight.

3: Buddhism

Surprisingly, I had to look up a lot for Guanyin; she was the one I knew the least about. I learned a lot from that, and some of her artifacts will be used in the final fight.

...I'm really not sure what else- Other than hyperfixating with my spouse and Kiddo and other LMK fans there wasn't any other mythology sources I drew from. I did Hella Research on goddamn Tang-dynasty roof tiles and the difference in building styles between Northern China and Southern, and some for Guanyin, but for mythology that's really it-

#journey to the west #jttw #xiyouji #can you tell I’ve dedicated the past two years of my life to this monkey #what the hell #this was way more than I thought #anyways I think I have a problem #reblog!#post!#if you’re looking for more accessible ways to read JTTW I’ve got you covered btw

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alatismeni-theitsa · 2 years ago

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Hi, I just read the ask about LO Leuce and how RS mixes Greek and Roman myths with no context. Personally, I don’t really find it wrong to mix different myths together in fiction and it may be because in Chinese literature, elements of Taoism and Buddhism are often mixed together (think Journey to the West). I was wondering why some readers of LO find it wrong for RS to mix elements of different pantheons together.

Hi! 😁 The case of ancient Greek and Italian religion is not the same as Taoism and Buddhism for us. They are centuries apart with differences in stories and cultural approaches. I am not saying that they are day and night and I don't deny any similarities, but just because two things are similar it doesn't mean that they are the same thing.

Oh! Edit cause I forgot to add a similar ask I got, and I wanted to combine them! @hotpocket-fucker here’s your combined answer, too!

The Italians* added the Greek gods to their pantheon nearly a thousand years later. But not only did they approach the gods differently (and with some good amount of imperialism :P ) but also made it their own separate religion, while Greeks had their own set of stories. I mean, many Greek stories bled into the Italian religion, but the Italian religion recorded new stories and also ignored many Greek ones. That means that centuries of Greek tradition and stories didn't make it into the Italian equivalent. The Italians at the time took gods from many pantheons to establish them as their own and show dominance over the peoples conquered by Rome.

Sure, it's not the worst thing in the world if a character who is a god has adventures inspired by different incidents, and I am not saying that one can't do it. But this lumping of Greek and Italian cultures is not very... intersectional. Our history, culture, and religions have been similar at times, yes but because we are neighbors. Being neighbors makes us similar but two distinct people. Greeks don't say "this is the temple of Zeus or Jupiter", it's just "Zeus" because Jupiter and his stories (even if some are similar), are of no canonical interest to the local religion. We are always careful when we pull sources, and mention it when a later addition to the Italian religion was made by another Roman, because we give importance to the fact that it was 1.000 years later than the beginning of the Hellenic religion.

One should at least recognize that just because the Italians said that Hades did one thing, it doesn't mean that the Greeks believe the same story is true, and that these stories were recorded by different nations with different cultures and in very different times. The differences are notable so the Roman gods are more like equivalents, not the exact same gods going through different "adventures" because different ethnicities wrote that they did different things.

An example would be Durga and Kali within India, and they even have many similar stories and many similar festivals. But their nature and presentation is different. Hindus don't like it when others confuse Durga and Kali. Similarly, the Aphrodite of ancient Cyprus is not the Aphrodite of ancient Greece. And in Buddhism, I am not sure if people would like to hear "Mahākāla is basically Shiva, so we can write that Mahākāla cursed his wife to be born a fisherwoman because he was annoyed she didn't pay attention to his teachings." (Derived of a story of Shiva and Parvati). Many more equivalents of Indian deities are included in Buddhism but I do get the impression that, although they reside over the same domains, they are not considered interchangeable.

Additionally, you are probably familiar with the god of Death, Yama and how he is presented differently in different cultures. The "Yama" in each depiction has a different presentation, different duties, and different powers. If you ask people of these regions and countries to tell you who is Yama to them, you might take a different answer. For context:

Yama, mid-17th century, Tibet:

Japan. Statue of Yama (Enma) at Nariai-ji

Hindu Yama:

Of course, not one interaction between two and three cultures can be exactly compared to another similar interaction, but I hope I gave a general impression of the situation.

*I don't say "Romans" bc all their subjects were Romans, including the Greeks and I think it's a proper term since the region is the Italian peninsula - but Italians correct me if I am wrong.h

#hellenic pantheon #roman pantheon #italian pantheon #greek mythology #roman mythology #answered

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loosesodamarble · 3 years ago

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Thoughts on a "Japanese" Man

To celebrate Yami Sukehiro's birthday, I'd like to share some of my thoughts about him as a Japanese stand-in for in the world of Black Clover.

Let's start with Yami's name. It's homophonous with the Japanese word for "dark" or "darkness," 闇. That much is obvious but it also is used in lots of words with negative connotations. There are words such as 闇打 (yamiuchi) meaning "sneak attack," 闇弱 (anjaku) meaning "weak-mindedness," and 闇雲に (yamikumoni) which means "reckless, haphazardly." All of them use the same kanji where Yami's name comes from. My favorite though is 闇夜 (yamiya/an'ya) which can mean "a dark/moonless night," "crapshot," or "a depressing outlook," depending on the context." The word combines kanji meaning "darkness" and "night." And what does that remind you of? Yami and Nacht. Each one has a magic which contrasts light, live high risk lives, and have been or currently are facing grim outlooks. The fact that they are similar is intended in the story but to see the parallels on a meta level is super interesting.

Next I want to address Yami's magic. It's Dark Magic. It's an interesting choice considering his homeland is meant to be Japan, down to the name "Land of the Sun." It's widely known that sun iconography is a big thing in Japan (for better or worse) with their most prominent Shinto deity being the goddess of the sun. Perhaps the choice of his magic is symbolic of how far away he is from home? It's unclear whether he can make the journey home and simply chooses not to or if he can't return (mostly due to not knowing the direction and distance in relation to Clover Kingdom). Either way, he is no longer in the presence of his homeland, in the light. He is cut off and thus in darkness. Also, it uses the "Dark is not Evil" trope and fits thematically with the Black Bulls, the leader would of course have a magic that would manifest as black energy.

Finally, I want to take a look at Yami's ideology, the "surpass your limits" thing and besides that. Now, I am a Japanese-American but my experience with Japanese culture is limited. However, one thing I, and likely many others, have heard about Japan's social culture is that there exists a phrase which often is translated as "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down." It's somewhat similar to Tall Poppy Syndrome in the West but where TPS aims to put down overachievers, Japanese society insists upon conformity. The way I see it, Yami stands in opposition to both types of thinking. He tells his squad to surpass their limits, not just in regards to what they think they can do but also what society expects of them. He sees peasants like Magna and Asta as capable Magic Knights while most wouldn't consider them. He takes Noelle in and, with the rest of the squad, helps her unleash her true strength. Then there's the fact that he gathers together social outcasts and allows them to live as they choose to, even if the rest of the kingdom looks down on them. The Black Bulls is all about unlocking one's full potential and being true to themselves.

The freedom to be oneself and achieve is something that many people need to hear. I think it's more important that Japanese citizens, youth especially, learn about that mindset because of how much pressure there is to be successful while also conforming in Japanese society. Having Yami, as a Japanese stand-in, and his squad be embodiment of that idea is important and a powerful message.

I know this post wasn't all that focused and got a little sentimental in the end but they're my thoughts. I don't make it clear that often but I genuinely think that Yami is one of the coolest guys in Black Clover! Being able to put my thoughts into words and share them have further increased my appreciation for his character.

Anyways, お誕生日おめでとう (happy birthday) Yami Sukehiro! And remember to surpass your limits folks!

#happy birthday yami #yami sukehiro #black clover #black clover meta #soda asides

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the-monkey-ruler · 2 years ago

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Oh neat, so there are shows that don’t follow the book all too much. Twitter gave me the impression that’s a no-no in china. Glad to see it’s just fans being oddly protective of canon.

Listen... I LOVE JTTW media... hence that's why I am collecting it and listing it.

I mean there are HUNDREDS of interpretations of Journey to the West and while I am not an expert in media I do know that in most cases a lot of projects in Chine are either big-budget movies, passion projects, or even cash-grabs but either way, the range is long and wide. I personally know that when it comes to categorizing so many interpretations there are bound to be…. some more disappointing material than others but that just means highlighting other media even more!! If there is something one media a person doesn’t enjoy the good news!! There are HUNDREDS of other media out there for you! There is a journey to the west story out there for everyone and I think anyone can enjoy it!

However, the thing to keep in mind is that... JTTW is a culturally important piece of literature in China and while interpretations can range from silly to serious, romance to action, modern to historical, there is always a nod to the original source material to show an understanding of people who grew up with this story their whole lives and already are generally aware of the cultural significance the story has had with literature, history, or even modern culture. Just the causal saturation of JTTW in everyday lives for people that grew up with this story. These interpretations are a kind of consistent continuation of the story, that no matter what generation there is always going to be a new movie or a new television that gets another generation of people to know and love the original source material.

Of course, this kinda material, at least personally, can be very meaningful to those that grew up with it because it's not only culturally important but also it's nostalgic in a way that non-natives can find hard to understand. I like to think that sharing JTTW is always great in that others can be introduced to the literature and become interested! However, people who aren't familiar with JTTW and haven't been surrounded by mass amounts of media their whole lives. Non-natives aren't familiar with the religious or historical context within the story and easily glossed over these aspects if they only consume movie or television media of this literature. Usually,

Westerners that are familiar with the material are only subjected to one of the many interpretations that are inspired by JTTW but not the actual material itself. Westerners haven't been saturated in the causal references of seeing these stories and understanding when media is being satirical or sincere when it comes to the OG story. The OG story has been told again and again many times but that's because people who have grown up with the story have a general understanding of what it means to be just another adaptation versus something that is supposed to represent a true retelling of the story for those that are no familiar to the OG story and is meant to be an introduction to the story.

People who have grown up with these stories are never going to take most of these adaptions as anything more but an enjoyable interpretation of the beloved cultural piece they are familiar with and are able to separate the interpretation from the OG. I think the real issue when it comes to people not familiar with this tale, consume media is that is often taken as 'fact' and anything that lay outside this first impression can lead to misunderstandings and arguments, especially when people disregard the original tale if it doesn't fit their first interpretation. While this may be a very great piece of media or very enjoyable there is a general understanding that is it only one of the many that there are, and many there will ever be.

There are a lot of layers to JTTW and it's understandable that people who have not been saturated in this culture are not away of it, so when natives try to correct or even protect their culture from non-natives' interpretations or misinformation there is a mind to please be culturally sensitive to learning new things. JTTW has historical and religious importance represented within it the tale and non-natives can make the mistake of invalidating these beliefs or figures by only consuming surface-level media.

I love JTTW media, good or bad, I want to count all mediums to how this story has been told and re-told over and over again throughout the decades not to show 'hey this can be taken in any context with no repercussions' but rather to show people that 'hey there are a lot of ways that this story has been interpreted so if you do not like one then you can see another, perhaps even be inspired to learn more of the material.' I love spreading information but there needs to be a general acknowledgment as great as JTTW is just a piece of media it all started from being such a culturally important and impactful piece of literature able to masterly combine Buddhism, Daoism, and Chinese folklore.

There has been a history of Western media... being insensitive to Eastern cultures and as such, I understand why there is a protectiveness over something like JTTW when it comes to non-natives perhaps misunderstanding or being unaware of the more important aspects of the media. Most, if not all JTTW media, is not made for people who KNOW about JTTW. JTTW media is created for people that already know the OG and already enjoy it, usually looking to find an easily consumable way to enjoy this literature through a different medium without having to read 100 chapters. Watching a piece of JTTW media doesn't make someone an expert in JTTW nor does it make them more familiar with Chinese culture. An individual has to take it upon themself to find out more about the OG JTTW, and again in my personal opinion, I believe that it makes JTTW media even more enjoyable as you have a deeper understanding of how these interpretations were created.

#jttw #anon ask #anonymous #anon #answer #Im sorry for making this so long I just had a lot of thoughts about the subject #Like its all fun and games to a certain point but please know that there is more to this literature.#I hope people can come to enjoy jttw more and more everyday but not at the cost of loosing it's cultural #religious or historical significance #ask

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unpopularwiththepopulace · 4 years ago

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A retrospective on some of Broadway’s most important female costume designers across the last century

How much is our memory or perception of a production influenced by the manner in which we visually comprehend the characters for their physical appearance and attire? A lot.

How much attention in memory is often dedicated to celebrating the costume designers who create the visual forms we remember? Comparatively, not much.

Delving through the New York Public Library archives of late, I found I was able to zoom into pictures of productions like Sunday in the Park with George at a magnitude greater than before.

In doing so, I noticed myself marvelling at finer details on the costumes that simply aren’t visible from grainy 1985 proshots, or other lower resolution images.

And marvel I did.

At first, I began to set out to address the contributions made to the show by designer Patricia Zipprodt in collaboration with Ann Hould-Ward. Quickly I fell into a (rather substantial) tangent rabbit hole – concerning over a century’s worth of interconnected designers who are responsible for hundreds of some of the most memorable Broadway shows between them.

It is impossible to look at the work of just one or two of these women without also discussing the others that came before them or were inspired by them.

Journey with me then if you will on this retrospective endeavour to explore the work and legacy that some of these designers have created, and some of the contexts in which they did so.

A set of podcasts featuring Ann Hould-Ward, including Behind the Curtain (Ep. 229) and Broadway Nation (Eps. 17 and 18), invaluably introduce some of the information discussed here and, most crucially, provide a first-hand, verbal link back to this history. The latter show sets out the case for a “succession of dynamic women that goes back to the earliest days of the Broadway musical and continues right up to today”, all of whom “were mentored by one or more of the great [designers] before them, [all] became Tony award-winning [stars] in their own right, and [all] have passed on the [craft] to the next generation.”

A chronological, linear descendancy links these designers across multiple centuries, starting in 1880 with Aline Bernstein, then moving to Irene Sharaff, then to Patricia Zipprodt, then to the present day with Ann Hould-Ward. Other designers branch from or interact with this linear chronology in different ways, such as Florence Klotz and Ann Roth – who, like Patricia Zipprodt, were also mentored by Aline Bernstein – or Theoni V. Aldredge, who stands apart from this connected tree, but whose career closely parallels the chronology of its central portion. There were, of course, many other designers and women also working within this era that provided even further momentous contributions to the world of costume design, but in this piece, the focus will remain primarily on these seven figures.

As the main creditor of the designs for Sunday in the Park with George, let’s start with Patricia (Pat) Zipprodt.

Born in 1925, Pat studied at the Fashion Institute of Technology (FIT) in New York after winning a scholarship there in 1951. Through teaching herself “all of costume history by studying materials at the New York Public Library”, she passed her entrance exam to the United Scenic Artists Union in 1954. This itself was a feat only possible through Aline Bernstein’s pioneering steps in demanding and starting female acceptance into this same union for the first time just under 30 years previously.

Pat made her individual costume design debut a year after assisting Irene Sharaff on Happy Hunting in 1956 – Ethel Merman’s last new Broadway credit. Of the more than 50 shows she subsequently designed, some of Pat’s most significant musicals include: She Loves Me (1963) Fiddler on the Roof (1964) Cabaret (1966) Zorba (1968) 1776 (1969) Pippin (1972) Mack & Mabel (1974) Chicago (1975) Alice in Wonderland (1983) Sunday in the Park with George (1984) Sweet Charity (1986) Into the Woods (1987) - preliminary work

Other notable play credits included: The Little Foxes (1967) The Glass Menagerie (1983) Cat on a Hot Tin Roof (1990)

Yes. One person designed all of those shows. Many of the most beloved pieces in modern musical theatre history. Somewhat baffling.

Her work notably earned her 11 Tony nominations, 3 wins, an induction into the Theatre Hall of Fame in 1992, and the Irene Sharaff award for lifetime achievement in costume design in 1997.

By 1983, Pat was one of the most well-respected designers of her era. When the offer for Sunday in the Park with George came in, she was less than enamoured by being confined to the ill-suited basements at Playwright’s Horizons all day, designing full costumes for a story not even yet in existence. From-the-ground-up workshops are common now, but at the time, Sunday was one of the first of its kind.

Rather than flatly declining, she asked Ann Hould-Ward, previously her assistant and intern who had now been designing for 2-3 years on her own, if she was interested in collaborating. She was. The two divided the designing between them, like Pat creating Bernadette’s opening pink and white dress, and Ann her final red and purple dress.

Which indeed leads to the question of the infamous creation worn in the opening number. No attemptedly comprehensive look at the costumes in Sunday would be complete without addressing it or its masterful mechanics.

To enable Bernadette to spring miraculously and seemingly effortlessly from her outer confines, Ann and Pat enlisted the help of a man with a “Theatre Magics” company in Ohio. Dubbed ‘The Iron Dress’, the gasp-inducing motion required a wire frame embedded into the material, entities called ‘moonwalker legs and feet’, and two garage door openers coming up through the stage to lever the two halves apart. The mechanism – highly impressive in its periods of functionality – wasn’t without its flaws. Ann recalls “there were nights during previews where [Bernadette] couldn’t get out of the dress”. Or worse, a night where “the dress closed up completely. And it wouldn’t open up again!”. As Bernadette finished her number, there was nothing else within her power she could do, so she simply “grabbed it under her arm and carried it off stage.”

What visuals. Evidently, the course of costume design is not always plain sailing.

This sentiment is exhibited in the fact design work is a physical materialisation of other creators’ visions, thus foregrounding the tricky need for collaboration and compromise. This is at once a skill, very much part of the job description, and not always pleasant – in navigating any divides between one’s own ideas and those of other people.

Sunday in the Park with George was no exception in requiring such a moment of compromise and revision. With the show already on Broadway in previews, Stephen Sondheim decreed the little girl Louise’s dress “needs to be white” – not the “turquoisey blue” undertone Pat and Ann had already created it with. White, to better spotlight the painting’s centre.

Requests for alterations are easier to comprehend when they are done with equanimity and have justification. Sondheim said he would pay for the new dress himself, and in Seurat’s original painting, the little girl is very brightly the focal centre point of the piece. On this occasion, all agreed that Sondheim was “absolutely right”. A new dress was made.

Other artistic differences aren’t always as amicable.

In Pat Zipprodt’s first show, Happy Hunting with Ethel Merman in 1956, some creatives and directors were getting in vociferous, progress-stopping arguments over a dress and a scene in which Ethel was to jump over a fence. Then magically, the dress went missing. Pat was working at the time as an assistant to the senior Irene Sharaff, and Pat herself was the one to find the dress the next morning. It was in the basement. Covered in black and wholly unwearable. Sharaff had spray painted the dress black in protest against the “bickering”. Indeed, Sharaff disappeared, not to be seen again until the show arrived on Broadway.

Those that worked with her soon found that Sharaff was one to be listened to and respected – as Hal Prince did during West Side Story. After the show opened in 1957, Hal replaced her 40 pairs of meticulously created and individually dyed, battered, and re-dyed jeans with off-the-rack copies. His reasoning was this: “How foolish to be wasting money when we can make a promotional arrangement with Levi Strauss to supply blue jeans free for program credit?” A year later, he looked at their show, and wondered “What’s happened?”

What had happened was that the production had lost its spark and noticeable portions of its beauty, vibrancy, and subtle individuality. Sharaff’s unique creations quickly returned, and Hal had learned his lesson. By the time Sharaff’s mentee, Pat, had “designed the most expensive rags for the company to wear” with this same idiosyncratic dyeing process for Fiddler on the Roof in 1964, Hal recognised the value of this particularity and the disproportionately large payoff even ostensibly simple garments can bring.

Irene Sharaff is remembered as one of the greatest designers ever. Born in 1910, she was mentored by Aline Bernstein, first assisting her on 1928’s original staging of Hedda Gabler.

Throughout her 56 year career, she designed more than 52 Broadway musicals. Some particularly memorable entities include: The Boys from Syracuse (1938) Lady in the Dark (1943) Candide (1956) Happy Hunting (1956) Sweet Charity (1966) The King and I (1951, 1956) West Side Story (1957, 1961) Funny Girl (1964, 1968)

For the last three productions, she would reprise her work on Broadway in the subsequent and indelibly enduring film adaptations of the same shows.

Her work in the theatre earned her 6 Tony nominations and 1 win, though her work in Hollywood was perhaps even more well rewarded – earning 5 Academy Awards from a total of 15 nominations.

Some of Sharaff’s additional film credits included: Meet Me in St. Louis (1944) Ziegfeld Follies (1946) An American in Paris (1951) Call Me Madam (1953) A Star is Born (1954) – partial Guys and Dolls (1955) Cleopatra (1963) Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf? (1966) Hello Dolly! (1969) Mommie Dearest (1981)

It’s a remarkable list. But it is too more than just a list.

Famously, Judy’s red scarlet ballgown in Meet Me in St. Louis was termed the “most sophisticated costume [she’d] yet worn on the screen.”

It has been written that Sharaff’s “last film was probably the only bad one on which she worked,” – the infamous pillar of camp culture, Mommie Dearest, in 1981 – “but its perpetrators knew that to recreate the Hollywood of Joan Crawford, it required an artist who understood the particular glamour of the Crawford era.” And at the time, there were very few – if any – who could fill that requirement better than Irene Sharaff.

The 1963 production of Cleopatra is perhaps an even more infamous endeavour. Notoriously fraught with problems, the film was at that point the most expensive ever made. It nearly bankrupted 20th Century Fox, in light of varying issues like long production delays, a revolving carousel of directors, the beginning of the infamous Burton/Taylor affair and resulting media storm, and bouts of Elizabeth’s ill-health that “nearly killed her”. In that turbulent environment, Sharaff is highlighted as one of the figures instrumental in the film’s eventual completion – “adjusting Elizabeth Taylor’s costumes when her weight fluctuated overnight” so the world finally received the visual spectacle they were all ardently anticipating.

But even beyond that, Sharaff’s work had impacts more significantly and extensively than the immediate products of the shows or films themselves. Within a few years of her “vibrant Thai silk costumes for ‘The King and I’ in 1951, …silk became Thailand’s best-known export.” Her designs changed the entire economic landscape of the country.

It’s little wonder that in that era, Sharaff was known as “one of the most sought-after and highest-paid people in her profession.” With discussions and favourable comparisions alongside none other than Old Hollywood’s most beloved designer, Edith Head, Irene deserves her place in history to be recognised as one of the foremost significant pillars of the design world.

In this respected position, Irene Sharaff was able to pass on her knowledge by mentoring others too as well as Patricia Zipprodt, like Ann Roth and Florence Klotz, who have in turn gone on to further have their own highly commendable successes in the industry.

Florence “Flossie” Klotz, born in 1920, is the only Broadway costume designer to have won six Tony awards. She did so, all of them for musicals, and all of them directed by Hal Prince, in a marker of their long and meaningful collaboration.

Indeed, Flossie’s life partner was Ruth Mitchell – Hal’s long-time assistant, and herself legendary stage manager, associate director and producer of over 43 shows. Together, Flossie and Ruth were dubbed a “power couple of Broadway”.

Flossie’s shows with Hal included: Follies (1971) A Little Night Music (1973) Pacific Overtures (1976) Grind (1985) Kiss of the Spiderwoman (1993) Show Boat (1995)

And additional shows amongst her credits extend to: Side by Side by Sondheim (1977) On the Twentieth Century (1978) The Little Foxes (1981) A Doll’s Life (1982) Jerry’s Girls (1985)

Earlier in her career, she would first find her footing as an assistant designer on some of the Golden Age’s most pivotal shows like: The King and I (1951) Pal Joey (1952) Silk Stockings (1955) Carousel (1957) The Sound of Music (1959)

The original production of Follies marked the first time Florence was seriously recognised for her work. Before this point, she was not yet anywhere close to being considered as having broken into the ranks of Broadway’s “reigning designers” of that era. Follies changed matters, providing both an indication of the talent of her work to come, and creating history in being commended for producing some of the “best costumes to be seen on Broadway” in recent memory – as Clive Barnes wrote in The New York Times. Fuller discussion is merited given that the costumes of Follies are always one of the show’s central points of debate and have been crucial to the reception of the original production as well as every single revival that has followed in the 50 years since.

In this instance, Ted Chapin would record from his book ‘Everything Was Possible: The Birth of the Musical ‘Follies’ how “the costumes were so opulent, they put the show over-budget.” Moreover, that “talking about the show years later, [Florence] said the costumes could not be made today. ‘Not only would they cost upwards of $2 million, but we used fabrics from England that aren’t even made anymore.’” Broadway then does indeed no longer look like Broadway now.

This “surreal tableau” Flossie created, including “three-foot-high ostrich feather headdresses, Marie Antoinette wigs adorned with musical instruments and birdcages, and gowns embellished with translucent butterfly wings”, remains arguably one of the most impressive and jaw-dropping spectacles to have ever graced a Broadway stage even to this day.

As for Ann Roth, born in 1931, she is still to this day making her own history – recently becoming the joint eldest nominee at 89 for an Oscar (her 5th), for her work on 2020′s Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom. Now as of April 26th, Ann has just made history even further by becoming the oldest woman to win a competitive Academy Award ever. She has an impressive array of Hollywood credits to her name in addition to a roster of Broadway design projects, which have earned her 12 Tony nominations.

Some of her work in the theatre includes: The Women (1973) The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas (1978) They're Playing Our Song (1979) Singin' in the Rain (1985) Present Laughter (1996) Hedda Gabler (2009) A Raisin in the Sun (2014) Shuffle Along (2016) The Prom (2018)

Making her way over to Hollywood in the ‘70s, she has left an indelible and lasting visual impact on the arts through films like: Klute (1971) The Goodbye Girl (1977) Hair (1979) 9 to 5 (1980) Silkwood (1983) Postcards from the Edge (1990) The Birdcage (1996) The Hours (2002) Mamma Mia! (2008) Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom (2020)

It’s clear from this branching 'tree' to see how far the impact of just one woman passing on her time and knowledge to others who are starting out can spread.

This art of acting as a conduit for valuable insights was something Irene Sharaff had learned from her own mentor and predecessor, Aline Bernstein. Aline was viewed as “the first woman in the [US] to gain prominence in the male-dominated field of set and costume design,” and was too a strong proponent of passing on the unique knowledge she had acquired as a pioneer and forerunner in the field.

Born in 1880, Bernstein is recognised as “one of the first theatrical designers in New York to make sets and costumes entirely from scratch and craft moving sets” while Broadway was still very much in its infancy of taking shape as the world we know today. This she did for more than one hundred shows over decades of her work in the theatre. These shows included the spectacular Grand Street Follies (1924-27), and original premier productions of plays like some of the following: Ibsen’s Hedda Gabler (1928) J.M Barrie’s Peter Pan (1928) Grand Hotel (1930) Phillip Barry’s Animal Kingdom (1932) Chekov’s The Seagull (1937) Both Lillian Hellman’s The Children’s Hour (1934) and The Little Foxes (1939)

Beyond direct design work, Bernstein founded what was to become the Neighbourhood Playhouse (the notable New York acting school) and was influential in the “Little Theatre movement that sprung up across America in 1910”. These were the “forerunners of the non-profit theatres we see today” and she continued to work in this realm even after moving into commercial theatre.

Bernstein also established the Museum of Costume Art, which later became the Costume Institute of the Met Museum of Art, where she served as president from 1944 to her death in 1955. This is what the Met Gala raises money for every year. So for long as you have the world’s biggest celebrities parading up and down red carpets in high fashion pieces, you have Aline Bernstein to remember – as none of that would be happening without her.

During the last fifteen years of her life, Bernstein taught and served as a consultant in theatre programs at academic institutions including Yale, Harvard, and Vassar – keen to connect the community and facilitate an exchange of wisdom and information to new descendants and the next generation.

Many designers came somewhere out of this linear descendancy. One notable exception, with no American mentor, was Theoni V. Aldredge. Born in 1922 and trained in Greece, Theoni emigrated to the US, met her husband, Tom Aldredge – himself of Into the Woods and theatre notoriety – and went on to design more than 100 Broadway shows. For her work, she earned 3 Tony wins from 11 nominations from projects such as: Anyone Can Whistle (1964) A Chorus Line (1975) Annie (1977) Barnum (1980) 42nd Street (1980) Woman of the Year (1981) Dreamgirls (1981) La Cage aux Folles (1983) The Rink (1984)

One of the main features that typify Theoni’s design style and could be attributed to a certain unique and distinctive “European flair” is her strong use of vibrant colour. This is a sentiment instantly apparent in looking longitudinally at some of her work.

In Ann Hould-Ward’s words, Theoni speaks to the “great generosity” of this profession. Theoni went out of her way to call Ann apropos of nothing early in the morning at some unknown hotel just after Ann won her first Tony for Beauty and the Beast in 1994, purring “Dahhling, I told you so!” These were women that had their disagreements, yes, but ultimately shared their knowledge and congratulated each other for their successes.

Similar anecdotal goodwill can be found in Pat Zipprodt’s call to Ann on the night of the 1987 Tony’s – where Ann was nominated for Into the Woods – with Pat singing “Have wonderful night! You’re not gonna win! …[laugh] but I love you anyway!”

This well-wishing phone call is all the more poignant considering Pat was originally involved with doing the costumes for Into the Woods, in reprise of their previous collaboration on Sunday in the Park with George.

If, for example, Theoni instinctively is remembered for bright colour, one of the features that Pat is first remembered for is her dedicated approach to research for her designs. Indeed, the New York Public Library archives document how the remaining physical evidence of this research she conducted is “particularly thorough” in the section on Into the Woods. Before the show finally hit Broadway in 1987 with Ann Hould-Ward’s designs, records show Pat had done extensive investigation herself into materials, ideas and prospective creations all through 1986.

Both Ann and Pat worked on the show out of town in try-outs at the Old Globe theatre in San Diego. But when it came to negotiating Broadway contracts, the situation became “tricky” and later “untenable” with Pat and the producers. Ann was “allowed to step in and design” the show alone instead.

The lack of harboured resentment on Patricia’s behalf speaks to her character and the pair’s relationship, such that Ann still considered her “my dear and beloved friend” for over 25 years, and was “at [Pat’s] bed when she died”.

Though they parted ways ultimately for Into the Woods, you can very much feel a continuation between their work on Sunday in the Park with George a few years previously, especially considering how tactile the designs appear in both shows. This tactility is something the shows’ book writer and director, James Lapine, was specific about. Lapine would remark in his initial ideas and inspirations that he wanted a graphic quality to the costumes on this occasion, like “so many sketches of the fairy-tales do”.

Ann fed that sentiment through her final creations, with a wide variety of materials and textures being used across the whole show – like “ribbons with ribbons seamed through them”, “all sorts of applique”, “frothy organzas and rembriodered organzas”. A specific example documents how Joanna Gleason’s shawl as the Baker’s Wife was pieced together, cut apart, and put back together again before resembling its final form.

This highly involved principle demonstrates another manner of inventive design that uses a different method but maintains the aim of particularity as discussed previously with Patricia and Irene’s complex dyeing and re-dyeing process. Pushing the confines of what is possible with the materials at hand to create a variety of colours, shades, and textures ultimately produces visual entities that are complex to look at. Confusing the eye like this “holds attention longer”, Ann maintains, which makes viewers look more intricately at individual segments of the production, and enables the costume design to guide specific focus by not immediately ceding attention elsewhere.

Understanding the methods behind the resultant impacts of a show can be as, if not more, important and interesting than the final product of the show itself sometimes. A phone call Ann had last August with James Lapine reminds us this is a notion we may be treated more to in the imminent future, when he called to enquire as to the location of some design sketches for the book he is working on (Putting It Together: How Stephen Sondheim and I Created 'Sunday in the Park with George') to document more thoroughly the genesis of the pair’s landmark and beloved musical.

In continuation of the notion that origin stories contain their own intrinsic value beyond any final product, Ann first became Pat’s intern through a heart-warming and tenacious tale. Ann sent letters to three notable designers when finishing graduate school. Only Patricia Zipprodt replied, with a message to say she “didn’t have anything now but let me think about it and maybe in the future.” It got to the future, and Ann took the encouragement of her previous response to try and contact Pat again. Upon being told she was out of town with a show, Ann proceeded to chase Pat through various phone books and telephone wires across different states and theatres until she finally found her. She was bolstered by the specifics of their call and ran off the phone to write an imploring note – hinging on the premise of a shared connection to Montana. She took an arrow, stabbed it through a cowboy hat, put it in a box with the note that was written on raw hide, and mailed it to New York with bated breath and all of her hopes and wishes.

Pat was knife-edgingly close to missing the box, through a matter of circumstance and timing. Importantly, she didn’t. Ann got a response, and it boded well: “Alright alright alright! You can come to New York!”

Subsequently, Ann’s long career in the design world of the theatre has included notable credits such as: Sunday in the Park with George (1984) Into the Woods (1987, 1997) Falsettos (1992) Beauty and the Beast (1994, 1997) Little Me (1998) Company (2006) Road Show (2008) The People in the Picture (2011) Merrily We Roll Along (1985, 1990, 2012, segment in Six by Sondheim 2013) Passion (2013) The Visit (2015) The Color Purple (2015) The Prince of Egypt (2021)

From early days in the city sleeping on a piece of foam on a friend’s floor, to working collaboratively alongside Pat, to using what she’d learnt from her mentor in designing whole shows herself, and going on to win prestigious awards for her work – the cycle of the theatre and the importance of handing down wisdom from those who possess it is never more evident.

As Ann summarises it meaningfully, “the theatre is a continuing, changing, evolving, emotional ball”. It’s raw, it’s alive, it needs people, it needs stories, it needs documentation of history to remember all that came before.

In periods where there can physically be no new theatre, it’s made ever the more clear for the need not to forget what value there is in the tales to be told from the past.

Through this retrospective, we’ve seen the tour de force influence of a relatively small handful of women shaping a relatively large portion of the visual scape of some of Broadway’s brightest moments.

But it’s significant to consider how disproportionate this female impact was, in contrast with how massively male dominated the rest of the creative theatre industry has been across the last century.

Assessing variations in attitudes and approaches to relationships and families in these women in the context of their professional careers over this time period presents interesting observations. And indeed, manners in which things have changed over the past hundred years.

As Ann Hould-Ward speaks of her experiences, one of her reflections is how much this was a “very male dominated world”. And one that didn’t accommodate for women with families who also wanted careers. As an intern, she didn’t even feel she could tell Patricia Zipprodt about the existence of her own young child until after 6 months of working with her. With all of these male figures around them, it would be often questioned “How are you going to do the work? How are you going to manage [with a family]?”, and that it was “harder to convince people that you were going to be able to do out-of-towns, to be able to go places.” Simply put, the industry “didn't have many designers who were married with children.”

Patricia herself in the previous generation demonstrates this restricting ethos. “In 1993, Zipprodt married a man whose proposal she had refused some 43 years earlier.” She had just newly graduated college and “she declined [his proposal] and instead moved to New York.” Faced with the family or career conundrum, she chose the latter. By the 1950s, it then wasn’t seen as uncommon to have both, it was seen as impossible.

Her husband died just five years after the pair were married in 1998, as did Patricia herself the following year. One has to wonder if alternative decisions would’ve been made and lives lived differently if she’d experienced a different context for working women in her younger life.

But occupying any space in the theatre at all was only possible because of the efforts of and strides made by women in previous generations.

When Aline Bernstein first started designing for Broadway theatre in 1916, women couldn’t even vote. She became the first female member of the United Scenic Artists of America union in 1926, but only because she was sworn in under the false and male moniker of brother Bernstein. In fact, biographies often centralise on her involvement in a “passionate” extramarital love affair with novelist Thomas Wolfe – disproportionately so for all of her remarkable contributions to the theatrical, charitable and academic worlds, and instead having her life defined through her interactions with men.

As such, it is apparent how any significant interactions with men often had direct implications over a woman’s career, especially in this earlier half of the century. Only in their absence was there comparative capacity to flourish professionally.

Irene Sharaff had no notable relationships with men. She did however have a significant partnership with Chinese-American painter and writer Mai-mai Sze from “the mid-1930s until her death”. Though this was not (nor could not be) publicly recognised or documented at the time, later by close acquaintances the pair would be described as a “devoted couple”, “inseparable”, and as holding “love and admiration for one another [that] was apparent to everyone who knew them.” This manner of relationship for Irene in the context of her career can be theorised as having allowed her the capacity to “reach a level of professional success that would have been unthinkable for most straight women of [her] generation”.

Moving forwards in time, Irene and Mai-mai presently rest where their ashes are buried under “two halves of the same rock” at the entrance to the Music and Meditation Pavilion at Lucy Cavendish College in Cambridge, which was “built following a donation by Sharaff and Sze”. I postulate that this site would make for an interesting slice of history and a perhaps more thought-provoking deviation for tourists away from being shepherded up and down past King’s College on King’s Parade as more usually upon a visit to Cambridge.

In this more modern society at the other end of this linear tree of remarkable designers, options for women to be more open and in control of their personal and professional lives have increased somewhat.

Ann Hould-Ward later in her career would no longer “hide that [she] was a mother”, in fear of not being taken seriously. Rather, she “made a concerted effort to talk about [her] child”, saying “because at that point I had a modicum of success. And I thought it was supportive for other women that I could do this.”

If one aspect passed down between these women in history are details of the craft and knowledge accrued along the way, this statement by Ann represents an alternative facet and direction that teaching of the future can take. Namely, that by showing through example, newer generations will be able to comprehend the feasibility of occupying different options and spaces as professional women. Existing not just as designers, or wives, or mothers, or all, or one – but as people, who possess an immense talent and skill. And that it is now not just possible, but common, to be multifaceted and live the way you want to live while working.

This is not to say all of the restrictions and barriers faced by women in previous generations have been removed, but rather that as we build a larger wealth of history of women acting with autonomy and control to refer back to, things can only get easier to build upon for the future.

Who knows what Broadway and theatre in general will look like when it returns – both on the surface with respect to this facet of costume design, and also more deeply as to the inner machinations of how shows are put together and presented. The largely male environment and the need to tick corporate and commercial boxes will not have vanished. One can only hope that this long period of stasis will have foregrounded the need and, most importantly, provided the time to revaluate the ethos in which shows are often staged, and the ways in which minority groups – like women – are able to work and be successful within the theatre in all of the many shows to come.

Notable sources:

Photographs – predominantly from the New York Public Library digital archives. IBDB – the Internet Broadway Database. Broadway Nation Podcast (Eps. #17 and #18), David Armstrong, featuring Ann Hould-Ward, 2020. Behind the Curtain: Broadway’s Living Legends Podcast (Ep. #229), Robert W Schneider and Kevin David Thomas, featuring Ann Hould-Ward, 2020. Sense of Occasion, Harold Prince, 2017. Everything Was Possible: The Birth of the Musical ‘Follies’, Ted Chapin, 2003. Finishing the Hat: Collected Lyrics (1954–1981) with Attendant Comments, Principles, Heresies, Grudges, Whines and Anecdotes, Stephen Sondheim, 2010. The Complete Book of 1970s Broadway Musicals, Dan Deitz, 2015. The Complete Book of 1980s Broadway Musicals, Dan Dietz, 2016. Inventory of the Patricia Zipprodt Papers and Designs at the New York Public Library, 2004 – https://www.nypl.org/sites/default/files/archivalcollections/pdf/thezippr.pdf Extravagant Crowd’s Carl Van Vecten’s Portraits of Women, Aline Bernstein – http://brbl-archive.library.yale.edu/exhibitions/cvvpw/gallery/bernstein.html Jewish Heroes & Heroines of America: 150 True Stories of American Jewish Heroism – Aline Bernstein, Seymour Brody, 1996 – https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/aline-bernstein Ann Hould-Ward Talks Original “Into the Woods” Costume Designs, 2016 – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EPe77c6xzo&ab_channel=Playbill American Theatre Wing’s Working in the Theatre series, The Design Panel, 1993 – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sp-aMQHf-U&t=2167s&ab_channel=AmericanTheatreWing Journal of the History of Ideas Blog, Mai-mai Sze and Irene Sharaff in Public and in Private, Erin McGuirl, 2016 – https://jhiblog.org/2016/05/16/mai-mai-sze-and-irene-sharaff-in-public-and-in-private/ Irene Sharaff’s obituary, The New York Times, Marvine Howe, 1993 – https://www.nytimes.com/1993/08/17/obituaries/irene-sharaff-designer-83-dies-costumes-won-tony-and-oscars.html Obituary: Irene Sharaff, The Independent, David Shipman, 2011 – https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-irene-sharaff-1463219.html Broadway Design Exchange – Florence Klotz – https://www.broadwaydesignexchange.com/collections/florence-klotz Obituary: Florence Klotz, The New York Times, 2006 – https://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/03/obituaries/03klotz.html

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kuekyuuq · 3 years ago

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Gloria, Jet-lags and Imps [6x11]

Let’s jump right in:

Kinda love how Kara lamp-shaded addressed the fact she didn't tell the gang about her adventures in the PZ. She’s not wrong, tho.

...what do I want to say about Mxy using what's basically a well-known gay-anthem to tell his tale? I mean, it didn’t lead anywhere. The original song is about freeing oneself, liberation, stepping out of a (gone bad) relationship and moving on, stronger for it - empowerment. The only connection I could make, is that originally it was Nyxly’s aim to just do that (freeing herself and her kind from an oppressor), but in the way Mxy performed it, that part of the parallel was long over before he even reached the chorus. It’s also a popular Karaoke song, tho, so... he chose it because it’s catchy? I’ll try not to overthink it for now. At least, the Superfriend’s reactions were fun.

Nia exiting the elevator, "And what's this Old Stone?" I love it when ppl enter a room / situation and pick up on words that they couldn't have possibly heard. I think cinema sins ding such... Are we to assume, she dreamed Mxy's rendition of ‘I will survive’? Or is the elevator not sound-proof at all? (If it’s the latter, Nia later apparently telling Brainy “in private” between scenes / during the elevator ride about her Nyxly adventures, was a silly thing to do.)

So, "Jared" created the ring Old Stone to rule them all, it got shattered into the Paragons totems? Nyxly needs the totems and to get them she needs a crystal which also belonged to "Jared" - who happens to be Mxy's ancestor, which is why she needs Mxy / his blood, too.

I have one important and incredibly relevant question here, tho...

With the introduced imps and their names... Why’s dude named Jared of all things?!

Really, did I mishear that? If so, I’ll leave it as is and never edit, bc that would be hilarious in its own right 😋

...

Not sure what to make about Supergirl paraphrasing a Dirty Dancing quote. "Nobody puts Mxy into a power crystal on my watch." ...is he Baby now? (Seriously, though: Which of the writers thought that was a fitting quote to use in that particular context?)

...now, is the exposition section of the episode over yet?

Sensitive Brainy sensed something was up with Nia. He can relate... Nia doubting Kara would understand, too, is ridiculous. But I get it... insecurities and all. But, I mean, just 5 minutes later Kara announces she wants to save Nyxly despite her wrongdoings. And yet Nia still remains convinced, Kara wouldn’t forgive her own personal mini-me... After having witnessed Kara forgiving Lena for a whole season of the writers being stupid messing up to the nth degree. But I digress, Lena’s Lena.

...how old is Nia meant to be again? Just asking out of completely unrelated curiosity.

F*ck. They really went with NewFoundland...

Imma assume it was an executive choice after realizing they couldn’t find enough actors and actresses with a convincing Irish accent... maybe. Again, no offense to Newfoundland! Just... we got the insinuations of Ireland, not Newfoundland... And truthfully, when I think of magic, Ireland is an easy association. Whereas I only due to this whole debacle learned Newfoundland has Irish ancestry. So, okay, the show forced me to learn something new... I give ‘em that.

An easy journey, she said.

Lena's been off-screen for two whole episodes, Kara announcing at the beginning of ‘Dreamweaver’ [6x09] Lena being “back east” (at least insinuating Lena’s left the west-coast already), which span over at least one full day (feat. a scene at night), and ‘I still rise’ [6x10] at least another a whole day (the whole Nia’s mom back for a day deal). And, now, after at least 48 hours she barely just arrived.

Lemme check how long a regular plane would need to fly from California to NFL......... ... .. .. So... approx. 10 hours with at least one layover.

Yeah, using a private jet made it easier, but apparently also much, much slower...

Or, Lena randomly went some other places / did some sight-seeing in NFL before she decided to finally visit her mother’s hometown... [Either that or the timelines don’t match up and Lena’s scenes are flashbacks of sorts.]

Optimistic and relaxed Lena is a sight to behold. I rewound 3 times, just to enjoy it for as long as possible. We all knew it was going to be short-lived...

Let’s check off a few more items...

OMG, Kara hiding behind Alex at the mere sight of the PZ-projector broke my heart! 😢

"Elisabeth Walsh" is the new 'the one you shall not name'. ...poor Lena. 😭

Oh, so Mxy wants to be Patrick Swayze instead of Baby... gotcha.

...is this going anywhere?

KITTY!!! Okay, this must be the best opponent in the history of CWSG.

Despite the horrible CGI, SG using her heat-vision to project a laser-beam to distract the cat had me in (happy-) tears! 🤣

Gotta love the civilians of National City quickly returning to business as usual once the giant cat is gone. Even the police officers looked rather chill...

Nyxly did look fabulous this episode ^^

Andrea being Lena's rock is both great and annoying. I can't fault Andrea. It's just, that we still have to see an on-screen interaction between Lena and Kara and that bugs the heck out of me. I can’t help it. I’m sorry, Andrea.

Nia: "...is my fault." Kara: "Nu, is MY fault!" J'onn: "Stop fighting, kids!" Space-dad has spoken.

Mxy used an LuthorCorp copy machine... and of cos it's faulty. It's not an L-Corp product.

Kara forgiving Nia came as a surprise to her... Oooookay. I mean, the show has been writing Kara a bit inconsistently the past two seasons... so, yeah, maybe being unsure which of her traits apply this week was not such a far stretch...

Maybe it's the hair, but I wished, Florence was played by Alex Kingston.

So, not-Alex-Kingston shows Lena herself with a funny wig and tells her how her mother was still watching her...

If it wasn't for Katie's acting skills (I love her.) I would have already hit my head against the wall repeatedly. Something about these scenes had me constantly cringe and I made it through 5.5 seasons of this show already... Can’t quite put my finger on it, but it was highly distracting from the story that explained Lena’s mom was special even to another witch, where there was domestic abuse, and an accidental murder. Y’know, important stuff, deep-cutting stuff!

At least, poor widddle Lena got some closure there. Elisabeth was a good cookie. And filled with magic. And Lena’s gotta have that ‘spark’, too...

....so... Lena’s gonna stay in NFL for how much longer, to train becoming a witch? Please, just hand her a how-to manual and send her back home, to figure it out on her own, please... (Yes, that would be horrible decision-making, but I need her back with the team!)

On to the finish line:

So... Mxy IS Nyxly's brother? Wait, that doesn’t sound right... then Nyxly would have the same blood... Did I miss something? Can someone explain, please? Or is he her ex, and that’s where his rendition of “I will survive” makes sense?

Hnn... I can't help, but think Kara's speech for Nyxly was 85% based on her experiences with Lena in s05.

Awww... he said "stronger together"... Mxy... I hope, you'll be okay!

Lena believes in magic now. And I absolutely love how Lena wants to science magic XD

...but apparently magic isn’t science that hasn’t been explained yet, but parallel... powers? concepts? ether strings?

Nyxly has a loyal henchman now. Which was a bit heavy-handed. Took way too much of screen-time, so it better leads to something interesting.

And Kara is on a warpath now. Wooooot! Girl’s got enough.

...what else?

Did I miss a third Patrick Swayze hint / quote / mention? I learned, these things come in threes... Y’know, basic writing rules...

I guess, for once the episode title was meant to be taken literally, Mxy popping up between characters, to try and help. (I need in-show footage, of Mxy sneaking up on ppl, without his powers, on all fours / crouched, just to get the desired effect.) I mean, I’ve never really watched Malcom, but wasn’t he like what Mxy usually is? A bit of a trouble-maker, prankster, chaos-ensuing wherever he goes? ...well, in that case, the episode title didn’t hold up, as Mxy’s scenes were not fun or really goofy. Yes, there was some superficial humor, but just to serve Mxy dealing with not being able to use his powers, which in turn was only barely scratched at (although it turned out to be his final character development crisis, appreciating not having powers and - in turn - facing consequences for once). Again, a whole lot going on in the episode, so a lot of that may have ended up on the cutting-room floor.

...where’s Kelly? Secretly adopting a kid, maybe?

...Kara’s still a reporter, right? I mean, whenever it serves the immediate plot, yes? ...Not even a throw-away line, that she has to pop up at CatCo for appearances sake? Since Andrea is already upset with her AND looking into her friends’ identities? At least, Kara should take a peek to make sure Andrea hasn’t uncovered anything yet... No?

Well, that’s all I’ve got for now. Kue out.

#Supergirl #supercorp #Mxy in the middle #6x11 #mxy #nyxly #lena luthor #magic #lena's mom #fiction dissected #fandom #episode #Nia nal #dreamer #brainy #brainia

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hamliet · 4 years ago

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when does a relationship become queerbaiting? theres a book that i really like and the 2 male leads characters have a lot of storylines and arcs where they get closer and i think some of the tropes used can be similar to the typical romantic tropes, neither of them end up with anyone at the end of the story since its more about found family and the long journey the whole cast goes through. they even get shipped by another character as a running gag. personally i always saw it as being open to interpretation but recently the revised edition of the original novel came out and there were several lines those 2 characters had about each other that were kinda toned down, i didnt think much of it but i saw a post about how it was clearly baiting and the author was being homophobic for toning it down. i didnt think it counted as baiting since as far as i know, the novel was never advertised as anything with romance and the author never pretended they were gonna end up together. i am definitely a little weirded out by the decision to change those specific lines but a lot of the story stayed the same, including a lot about their relationship so idk what to think.

i guess im more confused on if it counts as baiting, or even substext??

Sooooo I am not the best person to ask about this, because I’m a cis woman who has thus far in life only been attracted in a romantic sense to cis men. I can talk a bit about baiting as a general concept in fiction, but you should definitely take it with some grains of salt.

Baiting, for me, is like deliberately playing up an aspect writers have no intention on delivering on. Usually this is done for ratings, to tease fans, fanservice, etc, but without payoff, it is just bad writing. Red herrings are good in writing, but only can be successfully used if the actual result is more satisfying than the herring. This applies to writing in general, not just to romantic ships. However, when the baiting involves historically underrepresented groups for no reason other than to get fans to spend money consuming the story, I think we can all agree that becomes something more grotesque than just bad writing: it’s insensitive, socially irresponsible, frankly hurtful.

Some common examples are Bridgerton which has a gay character, who is extremely minor, yet they played up this character in advertising. Also, Rizzoli and Isles I think actually had its producers mention deliberately playing up the lesbian subtext to hook the audience without ever intending on following through.

That said, context also matters. Like, there are aspects of the culture of the work’s author, the target audience, and such that come into play here also (so like, romantic tropes differ by culture. For example, enemies to lovers is common in Asian stories but less in the west, and the “girl who pursues a guy” is extremely common in Japanese shonen in particular, while it is very much a cringe trope that almost never results in romance in American fiction. So if a writer reads, say, tropes that are common in America into a Japanese work and says it’s baiting, that’s quite possibly not the intent even if it may have been the experience of the reader. So even if there was no intent, there can still be hurt, and that hurt can be real, if that makes sense.

The definition of what constitutes ‘baiting’ varies. I do think that, in true Tumblr fashion, the term gets thrown around a lot and loses its intended meaning, or is so rigidly defined that creators can meet the letter of the “not a bait” requirement while ignoring the spirit of it.

To start with the latter: regarding something hitting the letter of what most wouldn’t consider baiting yet not really the spirit, let’s look at The Rise of Skywalker. This movie had a genuine lesbian kiss in it... between two characters we’d never seen more than a glimpse of while others are celebrating around them. Since it has a kiss, it’s not baiting, right? Well... the director deliberately said in the lead-up to the film that he included it because he “wanted LGBT people to see themselves in the film.” If “see yourselves in the film” is like a nanosecond of background, then, like... idk. Baiting or not, it feels icky, and I know some people consider it baiting and some don’t even if they don’t like, love that representation. But I think this is more queerbaiting than like, Nobara and Maki, who don’t have explicit romantic coding.

Going back to the former, in terms of ‘queerbaiting’ losing its intended meaning... I think there are a lot of really poorly written romantic ships out there, often het, while a lot of same-gender relationships are really well written regardless of whether there’s romantic coding within the text. The main emotional energy in stories with 90% male characters (as frankly many if not most stories are, great job world) is probably between two men. There’s just so much more potential with well-written characters who share a lot of screen time, so of course people are going to ship them. In my opinion, this does not inherently make it baiting, but it certainly creates an environment that lends itself to baiting even if the writers aren’t intending to do this.

Like, you could say the main emotional energy in BNHA is Bakugou and Deku. However, Bakudeku is 100% not queerbaiting. It’ll never be canon romantically (I don’t even ship it lol). There has been nothing to imply romance between them even if the main emotional message can be seen in their development. Deku/Ochaco is likely to be canon, but there is a significant lack of genuine emotional energy between them (the story’s plots and themes don’t coalesce around their relationship), so it’s probably going to feel forced. In contrast, Naruto/Sasuke had an actual kiss in canon, which while played for laughs is a lot more direct romantic coding than anything between Bakugou/Deku. I actually don’t think the majority of Narusasu is baiting, but I definitely think that one moment in chapter like 3 was really poor fanservice for yaoi fans, and has not aged well at all.

It is also the case that fans can confuse headcanons with what is actually in the text, and that just never ends well. For example, Clover and Qrow’s ship in RWBY: a lot of people read Clover as gay, which led to “bury your gays” outrage when he died. A member of the crew stated explicitly they had never intended for Clover to be a love interest for Qrow, and truthfully here was nothing strictly romantic in their relationship--nothing like a kiss or a declaration of love or a parallel to another romantic couple. Hence, I don’t personally consider it queerbaiting or bury your gays, but a lot of fans felt that it was and their pain is legitimate even if I think textually the argument isn’t there. The one thing I do think is true about this in particular is that there was also no strict platonic coding, which encourages headcanons. Clear writing, yo. It can help.

Note the word “can” not “will,” because strict platonic coding doesn’t always fix things, either. In what was probably a reaction to the outrage over Clover’s death, you had extremely blatant platonic coding of Ruby and Penny’s relationship this season leading up to Penny’s death. Ruby refers to Penny as “our friend” three different times, wherein “friend” sends a platonic message and “our” sends an even stronger message that it’s not about the two of them despite the fact that their friendship is one of the sweetest and most interesting in the show. A lingering Ruby-Penny hug then is followed by a lingering Penny-Weiss hug, then Yang, then Blake, etc. The writers went out of their way to hit people over the head with “platonic” and yet they have still gotten accusations of bury your gays and queerbaiting because people will see what they want to see in a story.

Seeing what you want to see in a story also isn’t inherently bad. People who are underrepresented are going to have to read themselves into stories because Lord knows writers ain’t incorporating them well enough if at all. It’s why “Mary Sues” are common in fanfiction, which is primarily written by people who are not straight white men: because where the hell else are we to see ourselves in fiction? So essentially the macrocosm of culture creates this problem, both in terms of baiting and the misuse of the term, and the only fix is a shit ton more good representation.

#ask hamliet #writing stuff #Anonymous

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