#Soulslore

[ladygwyndolin]

Hi! I have three Elden Ring lore questions, both of them are kind of big, so you can focus on one or the other if it pleases you.

So first, I still get somewhat confused on the connection between the erdtree and the greater will? Like, the erdtree (in its primordial form the crucible) seems to be the genesis of all life on whatever planet the lands between are on, but the elden beast seems to be extraterrestrial in origin? Is the erdtree an alien being, or has it merely been parasitized by something cosmic?

Second, the details around Marika's ascension to godhood and subsequent crusade seem hazy to me. We know she hails from the shaman village in the lands of shadow, and that after she ascended to godhood she sent Messmer on a crusade against the horned ones because of what they did to her people, but when did the crusade begin? Sometime after she became the vassal of the greater will, and before the night of black knives, but can we narrow down the time frame further?

Finally, what the hell is the Scadutree? A minor erdtree planted by Messmer's crusade as a symbol of the erdtree's dominance over the crucible? What caused it to become tainted and thorny?

Thanks, Lore Mom

OK HERE WE ARE! @morgcorr sorry for the wait. i'll try to keep my answers relatively brief for the sake of convenience.

The Crucible is NOT the primordial form of the Erdtree. The Erdtree was specifically a symbol of the Golden Order, Marika's regime while she was the god of the lands between (TLB.) She was not the first god or leader of a regime; Placidusax was at one point the Elden Lord of a different god who ruled over a dragon-led society from Farum Azula, for example. So the Erdtree was grown with Marika's power and isn't necessarily alien in itself, but the Elden Beast IS alien, as is the Greater Will. This was already my main theory but the DLC confirmed it as well with Metyr's lore. Basically the Greater Will was an all-powerful cosmic entity of some type that created life and such and upon doing so sent down some of its creations/children to guide new life, such as by having Metyr run the fingers and have the Elden Beast watch over the Elden Ring.

The crusade definitely took place after she ascended to godhood and before the Night of Black Knives because that was followed pretty swiftly afterward by her smashing the Ring. As for where it fits in the timeline, the general consensus is that Messmer is Marika's eldest son and that it took place before any of the other stuff we see post-godhood. However, I differ from my colleagues in that I believe the crusade actually took place LATER in her reign, perhaps near the end of it, and that Messmer was not her eldest child, but that's a much larger discussion.

The Scadutree is quite literally the shadow of the Erdtree (roll credits ding!!!!) but hidden away through the magic power of the Sealing Tree, the Suppressing Pillar, and Marika's manipulation of the Gate of Divinity. The Erdtree doesn't cast a shadow because Marika hid it from view, and in doing so hid away all the lands touched by said shadow. The tainted thorniness represents Order's decay and also possibly the twining of Godwyn's thorny roots. I have a lot more to say about this one but it's still percolating in the theory laboratory so I'll get to it later.

I hope this helps! Thank you for asking!

-Lore Mom

[schhwifty]

The Royal Sorcerer Navlaan

Due to Royal Sorcerer Navlaan being today's subject of crackpot connections and speculations, I'm going to give a heads up on some referencing and structure to prevent possible confusion For matter of context and understanding, I'll be referring to the 'Good' side of Royal Sorcerer Navlaan as The Sorcerer and referring to the 'Bad' side as Navlaan. As for the structure - everything is structured in the order of what I found interesting while investigating, which usually isn't how I structure these segments, and I thought it would be fun to switch things up to see how it flows A fair warning, you may have some "But wait!" moments with how information is provided as this segment progresses and I reassure you it's all part of the process Everything will make sense later. Hopefully.

With all that said And so, here we go!

Part I: Navlaan's 'Murder List'

Let's take a look at the list of individuals Navlaan wants the Bearer of the Curse to un-alive

Navlaan: "I want you to kill a merchant named Gilligan. A greedy, foul man. He won't be missed, I assure you. Hmm…Yes… Bring me a Ladder Miniature as proof."

Laddersmith Gilligan

Gilligan mentions he's a fugitive from lands West of Drangleic, so, if memory serves correctly the lands in the West that are not 'very far West' of Drangleic is Volgen Volgen is also mentioned by other characters as being in the West and very merchant focused

Via his dialogue: '"I'm on the run, don't give me away! You're a fugitive too, eh?"' '"Huh? No, I wasn't born here. I'm from a wee bit…I'm from a wee bit out west, that's all."' "You wouldn't believe the shenanigans that happen in my business. I thought at least here in the middle of nowhere I could stay clear of, you know, my auld pals."'

Gilligan sells an assortment of bleed focused items such as Lacerating Knives, Bleeding Serum, and Claws along with the Thief Mask and the Black Leather Armor set I think these items could connect to his "business" with the "auld pals" he mentions, and the fact that he's a fugitive on the run However, to be fair, when he says "business" he may be speaking literally and referring to being a merchant, so, I think it could be interpreted either way

He also has a Melu Scimitar, which I think he may have stolen from somewhere or someone in Volgen Per its description: 'Nothing notable about this weapon, except perhaps the luxurious jewels embedded in the hilt'

Navlaan: "Your target will be Cale, the man who's drafting that map. While I was trapped in here, he touched me, that maniac, like I was some rare specimen. He wore a strange helm. Bring it back as proof."

Cale the Cartographer

Mr. Cale is from Mirrah, fond of maps, and wants to make maps Via his dialogue: '"I am a traveller, like yourself. I'm navigating the continent to create a map."' "I was born in the land of Mirrah."'

His memory is foggy in regards to why he came to Drangleic and why he loves maps The lack of memory isn't unusual as almost every character Bearer of the Curse talks with mentions experiencing memory loss shortly after arriving in Drangleic, and they seem to retain the main reason behind their journey without remembering the finer details of why they're doing it

Cale's armor set mentions being 'of a light Mirrah foot soldier' and he 'procured this inexpensively second-hand', so, I think it's fair to speculate Cale could be a Foot Soldier Scout from Mirrah because keeping track of the lands traveled and being a Scout go hand-in-hand I also think Cale being sent to Drangleic to obtain a current standing condition report, layout, and mapping of the land is a reasonable possibility

An interesting note - Cale uses an Uchigatana when attacked and there's no way to obtain it because he doesn't drop the weapon when killed and he's not a merchant, so, he doesn't sell it either

Navlaan; "Your target is Felkin, the hexer. As proof, bring me that peculiar sceptre of his. But he will be formidable. Be cautious."

Felkin the Outcast

There's a lot of really interesting information and connections between Felkin and the The Sorcerer / Navlaan

Felkin attended a "great school in the South", which I assume is Melfian Magic Academy due to Melfian being South of Drangleic per mentioned by Carhillion and Rosabeth being from there as well

Via Felkin's dialogue: '"I w-went…I went…I went to a great school…in the south…But neither sorcery nor pyromancy appealed"' "I-I learned nothing…nothing at all…I-it was there that I happened upon the Dark. It drew me in…The nebulous Dark…Soon, I was drawn to this land, where Dark runs deeper than anywhere else."' "Hexes ar…are more than mere tools to me…I feel affinity…and warmth…Something universal, nostalgia…even…"'

Something interesting to keep in mind for later - Felkin created the Dark Weapon, Resonant Flesh, and Resonant Weapon hexes

Felkin sells the Archdrake Chime and Archdrake Staff, two items not easily obtained due to being given to Archdrake sect members of Lindelt, and he also sells the Ring of Life Protection The ring's description mentions: 'Divine ring that watches over one's life. Created by the students of Ivory Rhonnes, sage of Lindelt.'

An interesting note - The only way to get the Chime, Staff, and Ring from Felkin is via trade because he does not drop them if killed

When attacked, Felkin uses the Sunset Staff which is a Staff 'said to have been forged in Aldia' He also equips a Chaos Rapier and Chaos Shield for melee combat, which is very interesting because both items belonged to Navlaan in the base game before the item descriptions were changed in SotFS to fit Felkin's lore The Chaos Rapier and Chaos Shield are also dropped by Enhanced Undead located within Aldia's Keep

Navlaan: "I want you to kill the girl in Majula known as the Muse. They say that she is the last Fire Keeper. But they say a lot of things…That she's a gentle shepherd, lighting the way for you cursed fools. Nonsense. Once she is dead, I will have no regrets, and I will be content to remain here. The girl will have a peculiar feather. Bring it to me."

Shanalotte / Emerald Herald

There's a lot that can be mentioned for Shanalotte overall, however, for sake of focus I'll keep it simple by staying limited to her dialogue and because it ends Part I

Via Shanalotte's dialogue: "Bearer of the curse. Long have I awaited one such as you, one who might shatter the shackles of fate. One who can set me free."' "My journey is already complete. My name is Shanalotte. The dragon gave me this name, for I was born with none. I was born of dragons, contrived by men. By ones who would cozen fate herself…They are the ones who created me. But they failed. I did not come out as intended. Fate would not be bested, and men were cursed once again."'

Part II: The summery focus and reflection on who is the Sorcerer known as Navlaan

And so, here we go!

First, let's begin by taking a look at these items Navlaan has available for trade

Moon Hat

Astrologist's Set

Thunder Quartz Ring+2

Great Magic Weapon

Strong Magic Shield

I believe these items provide enough to speculate The Sorcerer spent some time within Melfia attending the Melfian Magic Academy I also believe he had met Felkin (before Felkin became an Outcast) at Melfian Magic Academy, and possibly studied Hexs with Felkin before Felkin had left the Academy

The Sorcerer had an interest in the art of resurrection and created Scraps of Life and Darkstorm, the two Hexes that lead to his exile then execution along with his entire village

For context and understanding:

Right?! How is this feller still causing havoc if he was executed is exactly the same thing I thought too!

Well, I found some nifty nito info about that

!!!!Something Worth Mentioning!!!!

The descriptions of Scraps of Life and Darkstorm can understandably come off as confusing due to referencing the existence of Navlaan being executed and not The Sorcerer being executed, while pretty much all signs point to The Sorcerer being executed before the known entity Navlaan appeared I think this is just a simple reference thing, like, they wanted the reference to be directly known and when the player meets The Sorcerer he is The Royal Sorcerer Navlaan, so by directly using the name Navlaan it's easier to make that connection If they had phrased it as 'The Sorcerer' or 'A sorcerer' instead of Navlaan then it would have been confusing due to there being many sorcerers within DS2 both literally and in mention

!!!!Okay Moving On!!!!

When Bearer of the Curse finds Navlaan sealed within Aldia's Keep his skin is blue like a Fenito He's not a Fenito, though, and this is something I am certain of Without going into another full segment on why, I'll keep it simple by stating the most direct "hard" backing evidence being Fenitos are not living Humans or livng beings to begin with and were created (all signs point to Nito being their creator, however, it doesn't state that right out) to watch over the dead, particularly the Undead Crypt in DS2 However, the Fenito being 'not living' beings while also not Undead Humans and have blue skin, is worth noting

Moving on!

The hood Navlaan wears provides some interesting information to consider

Chaos Hood

The rest of the Chaos Set doesn't state much while also providing a lot

Now, with everything previously mentioned so far considered…

I believe Navlaan could be a sentient soul accidentally created by The Sorcerer during his study of resurrection, and that soul possessed the body of the The Sorcerer after he and his entire village were executed

or

The Sorcerer partially resurrected himself through hex magic and it created Navlaan with Navlaan now being a part of The Sorcerer's soul

Circling back to the Chaos Hood and it's description, let's hammer out some notes worth considering

-The description of the Chaos Hood states its wearer as being 'a chaos sorcerer' and uses 'the man' as reference instead of Navlaan or the title of Royal Sorcerer

-The rest of the Chaos Set, that the Chaos Hood is part of, provides a context delivery like it's a deceleration saying the chaos sorcerer is no longer just a chaos sorcerer, He is now known as Navlaan

-The mention of sentient magic in a form of a question provided me with the interpretation that 'the man' (aka The Sorcerer now Chaos Sorcerer before becoming known as The Royal Sorcerer Navlaan) spoke of sentient magic and the sentient magic being Navlaan (The Sorcerer confirms he sealed himself away and goes into detail why, which I provide later)

-If we were to consider the possibility of Navlaan being a form of sentient magic, it is worth considering the possibility Navlaan is using the body of The Sorcerer as a catalyst to survive, which brings me to this interesting point - when Navlaan is aggro'd and attacks he is able to cast hexs without the use of a Staff or Chime Also, if The Sorcerer's body is being used as a vessel and catalyst that may explain why his skin is blue because the body is more so being used as a tool than being a living being

Now this crackpot is cooking! So, let's keep going

If we take the Affinity Hex into consideration, the possibility of a sentient magic or sentient sorcery seems more likely than not

Affinity

As I mentioned before, there's dialogue provided by both The Sorcerer and Navlaan which is important and provides direct information The Sorcerer speaks to Bearer of the Curse while in Human form, as Navlaan speaks while in Hollow form

Via their dialogue:

(The Sorcerer) "P-please, just stay away." "No, please, don't come near me. Nothing good will come of it." "Just leave me alone, please." "Leave this place, and leave me be, as I'd not see any harm befall you" "I haven't said anything strange, have I?" "I have absolutely no intention of leaving here."

(Navlaan) " This? This contains my power." "Long ago…This…naive vessel of mine set about devising new spells. The fool dreamt of bringing new forms of magic into the world. But instead, he created me. Mostly by chance, but he did a fine job, I must say. What he sought was strength. And so, I decided to demonstrate. While my vessel slept, I'd find my mark, and hunt him down. But my vessel did not approve. And so while I slept, he sealed the both of us away." "Now, I don't have anything against humans, but how is it that you go about defining good and evil? I'm only using what the Gods gave me. How can that be so wrong?"

So, yeah, there's a lot of straight to the point information there and, in my opinion, it all supports the speculation of Navlaan being some kind of sentient sorcery or sentient hex that's using the body of its creator to roam the world hunting down and un-aliving its 'marks' Also, the line "I'm only using what the Gods gave me." is quite peculiar, however, if we consider how soul sorcery was created and how hexes are also a form of sorcery then, well, Navlaan's point technically isn't incorrect with how he uses something that that Gods created to kill his 'marks'

And…we've reached the halfway point! Nice! Don't worry! The last two sections are not as long as the first two Still, though, feel free to get a drink and some snacks or use the bathroom if need be

…

Anyway, moving on!

I'm sure you're wondering just as I did at this point - How did The Sorcer Navlaan end up in Aldia's keep?? Good question! And the good question leads into the next section!

Part III: The Sorcerer seeks resurrection, finds Royal Chaos

The word Royal is seemingly applied to a certain type of individuals within DS2 while not being the same as DS1 or DS3 in meaning, and holds more of a connection to Knights, Guards, Warriors, and pretty much anyone serving some kind of military-esc importance for a King or Kingdom To be a Royal Sorcerer, one can speculate that the title would pertain to someone who's a Sorcerer serving directly to or under a King or King's order in consult, creation of magic, battle, and possibly all of the previously mentioned

However, there's barely anyone with such a title or position and there's other individuals of title and status who hold important positions to Kings and Kingdoms such as Chancellor Wellager

So, who the heck was The Royal Sorcerer Navlaan royally working for?

Spoiler: I didn't find out

Although, due to a good chunk of consistent information, I was able to connect many points then come to the speculation The Sorcerer may have became close with Aldia to the point of reaching 'Royal' status while being one of Aldia's Chaos Sorcerers, and then in turn went from being The Sorcerer, to Chaos Sorcerer, and final forming into The Royal Sorcerer Navlaan

Also, something I mentioned previously which feels like way back at this point, we know Felkin the Outcast was in Melfia before traveling to Drangleic We know Felkin also has various items directly tied to Aldia's Keep along with some of those items being created at Aldia's Keep

So, here's my crackpot speculation right off the bonfire;

The Sorcerer reached a revered position within the Melfian Magic Academy eventually becoming interested in methods of resurrection using sorcery, he studied with Felkin at some point which would have influenced the interest in hexes, hexes being sorcery of the Dark, and the Dark being a known source of power to bring back life even if Undead or otherwise Any sorcerer using or interested in hexes or dark magic were met with harsh scolding by other sorcerers and the Melfian Magic Academy with cases like The Sorcerer leading to eventual forced exile Now exiled, The Sorcerer continued his study in resurrection with sorcery and hexes until being executed with his entire village, which lead to the birthing of Navlaan from the creation of a sentient magic in either hex or sorcery form attaching to the The Sorcerer's soul, and Navlaan possessed The Sorcerer's not-living and not Undead body

Still with me? Okay good! Let's continue

Then, post-exile & execution The Sorcerer now existing as one with Navlaan, he traveled to Drangleic along with Felkin because Melfia certainly wasn't a safe place for those who dabble with hexes, and Felkin directly states within his dialogue "I happened upon the Dark. It drew me in…The nebulous Dark…Soon, I was drawn to this land, where Dark runs deeper than anywhere else."

Once in Drangleic, I think both The Sorcerer and Felkin eventually met up with Aldia or were drawn to Aldia due to Felkin being drawn to the Dark, which I also think Navlaan shared in feeling as well Felkin eventually leaves Aldia's Keep taking the various items with him (Chaos Rapier, Chaos Shield, Sunset Staff) becoming an 'Outcast' The Sorcerer remained within Aldia's Keep acquiring the Chaos Set becoming The Royal Sorcerer Navlaan (similar to Aldia's warlocks / Prowling Magus) and helped Aldia with various experiments, pyromancies, weapons, and I'm inclined to believe Navlaan had a hand in creating Shanalotte (Don't worry! We'll get to that in a bit) Eventually The Sorcerer becomes aware of Navlaan un-aliving people and seals their body within Aldia Keep locking them both in place until Bearer of the Curse rolls in to say "Holla!" and either leaves them sealed away, kills them, or let's them out which allows Navlaan to continue his murder spree

Speaking of murder spree!

The Royal Sorcerer Navlaan has Zullie the Witch's set available to trade except for the Black Witch Domino Mask and Black Witch Veil, which are only obtained from defeating Phantoms in Belfry Sol

Due to Navlaan having a thing for invading and murder, I'm inclined to think he has Zullie's armor set because he killed her and could have possibly killed Alva the Wayfarer too, after Alva had 'relinquished his knighthood' and joined up with Zullie (mentioned per the Alva Armor set)

Side note: Within DS3 the Locust Preacher's dialogue mentions '"One was a wayfaring knight, on an endless, forbidden search. Only the Abyss granted closure, if not reunion with his beloved."' The dialogue seems to be directly referencing Alva as the 'wayfaring knight', as well as Alva invades as a Red Phantom within The Ringed City directly nearby The Black Witch Set However, Navlaan having the Black Witch Set and the Black Witch Set also being present within The Ringed City makes things conflicting, unless Zullie had more than 1 set or something?

Anyway No distractions!

Now back to the murder spree stuff And so, let's go!

Part IV: Giving Thanks for Murder

Let's go over what Navlaan gives 'in thanks' for fulfilling his requests on unaliving people Or…not actually killing the 'marks' and bringing him the items he asks for as 'proof'

Dispelling Ring

Navlaan having this Ring makes sense, in my opinion, due his Chaos Set having high Fire, Dark, Magic, and Lightning defense along with Poison, Bleed, Curse, and Petrification resistances Having this ring adds onto all that protection, which makes sense to me because Sorcerers are all about that power and protection especially in DS2

As to how he may have acquired it; Olaphis existed during the time when Bastille (known as Lost Bastille when Bearer of the Curse shows up) became overflowing and many sorcerers with pyromancers were pushed to the South, so, I think it's possible this ring made its way to Melfia and The Sorcerer (before Navlaan's existance) either bought it, found it, or stole it

For context: the Warped Sword description mentions 'A curved sword forged from the soul of the Flexile Sentry…The sentry crammed inmates of the overflowing Bastille onto a rickety ship, and cast them out to the open sea. The majority of them drowned or starved, but a few hardy survivors made land to the south, and imparted their knowledge of sorcery to the people there.'

Simpleton's Spice

The benefit of 'this spice makes a chosen spell attainable with 1 less intelligence' is great for any spell user, however, I think the requirements for using it is more intriguing

The Simpleton's Spice needs to be brought to Magerold of Lanafir for it to be used, and Magerold mentions via his dialogue: '"I'm mainly a treasure hunter, you see. I'm only a merchant on the side."', and the Traveling Merchant Coat Magerold wears mentions 'Lanafir is the farthest land to the south and follows a strict edict of isolationism. The rare visitor from Lanafir is always a little odd.'

Magerold is also very aware of Petrified Eggs, one being on a Dragon Shrine (which Magerold knows about) within Dragon Aerie (a place Magerold must have had access to at one point or at least knew about along with where the Petrified Egg was), and he offers Bearer of the Curse to join the Dragon Remnants covenant if Bearer of the Curse gives him the Petrified Egg

Being how involved Aldia was with Dragons and Navlaan working with Aldia at some point, I think it's possible Magerold may have crossed paths with Navlaan within Aldia's Keep while Magerold was treasure hunting throughout the lands

Forbidden Sun

Not much to say about this other than although it doesn't directly mention Navlaan creating the pyromancy, I think it's reasonable to speculate he had involvement with its creation because it was 'developed in Aldian rites.' and 'What could possibly justify excessive destructive power? In all likelihood, the madmen of Aldia never even questioned the need.'

Unleash Magic

If the Forbidden Sun pyromancy wasn't enough of an example, destructive sorcery and pyromancy that comes with a cost and required sacrifice to create is nothing short of a common occurrence from Aldia and within Aldia's Keep

Now, let's take a look at the items Navlaan requested as 'proof' then determine if he cared more about the murder of those individuals Oooooor If there is more to why he wants the items than he's letting on…

And so, let's go!

Ladder Miniature

I'll be direct with ya, I have no clue why Navlaan would want this other than a keepsake trophy knowing or thinking Laddersmith Gilligan is dead The description mentions it 'is sold at an exorbitant price', however, I get the impression something like that isn't of Navlaan's interests Navlaan mentions the Ladder Miniature being a 'trinket', so, I'm leaning more towards it's just a trophy of success in un-aliving one of his 'marks'

Cale's Helm

The helm doesn't look like anything special and the item description pretty much states the same by mentioning 'Apparently Cale procured this inexpensively second-hand, but it's surprisingly well-made.'

However, the Helm does something that is rare within any other gear in the game - it gives +2 to Dexterity and +1 to Endurance Navlaan also directly mentions the helm and calls it 'strange', and let's be honest here anything that's strange to Navlaan is likely really something odd or unnatural However, considering the stat increase isn't directly mentioned with the item description it's uncertain if Navlaan would be aware of this and the argument can be made on this being an unsupported speculation

Sunset Staff

Via the Staff's description mentioned previously, it was 'forged in Aldia' and is 'particularly powerful for casting hexes., while being able to cast sorceries as well When Navlaan tells Bearer of the Curse to kill Felkin he doesn't mention anything about Felkin or any regard to why and that Felkin is a "formidable foe", which is very different than when Nvlaan speaks of the other individuals he wants dead I think that's because Nvlaan having Felkin as a 'mark' is personal

The Sunset Staff also mentions 'Those invited to the manor disappeared, replaced over time with malformed beasts that roamed its halls.' I'm inclined to believe Felkin became an enemy of Nvlaan when Felkin had left or escaped Aldia and Aldia's Keep taking various items and knowledge of the Dark with him Even if Nvlaan is capable of casting Hexes without the need of a Chime or Staff, having the Sunset Staff in his possession would be another powerful item within his repertoire

Aged Feather

Wanting this item is self explanatory because of its ability to be used repeatedly as a means of quick-travel, which is likely how Shanalotte was able to travel long distances quickly

If you release Navlaan from the sealed barrier his dialogue will be the same regardless of if you complete all of Navlaan's requests of murder-death-killing

(If you're Human and release him) The Sorcerer: '"By the very gods…What have you done…You've really done it…You'll never escape him…"'

(If you're Hollow and release him) Navlaan: '"Hmgh…I hope you appreciate the ramifications. Well, no matter. What's done is done. Besides, I've found myself a new mark…Gah hah hah…I'll spend some time travelling the lands…Slowly tracking my new mark…"'

Nvlaan will then invade at various locations throughout Drangleic if Bearer of the Curse is in Human form This happens if we complete his tasks or not and I still believe having an item like the Aged Feather would only support Navlaan's thirst for murder throughout the lands

Also, I believe wanting Shanalotte dead could be a personal matter because of how he speaks about her within his dialogue For context: '"Once she is dead, I will have no regrets, and I will be content to remain here."'

The 'regrets' Nvlaan speaks of could be related to what Shanalotte mentions within her dialogue: "I was born of dragons, contrived by men. By ones who would cozen fate herself…They are the ones who created me. But they failed. I did not come out as intended."

For a relentless murderous blood-thirsty entity like Navlaan having a regret to the point where he's not content until it's dealt with tells me Shanalotte means more than a mark or regret, she's a failure in his eyes and erasing that failure feels better to him than knowing she's still existing within the world

And that's it! You made it to the end.

This entry in my crackpot connections and speculations was rather lengthy, and that's something I do not regret the slightest because I had a lot of fun putting it all together and typing it all out For me, this kind of stuff feels like I'm going about a short journey of adventure to hopefully find new and exciting things

If you enjoyed this or it has helped you in one way or another that's an extra bonus flask of Awesomesauce Estus for me

However, if that's not the case, that's okay Simply being here for the ride is fun too!

Until next time!

[miirshroom]

I think that it is useful to think of it as building on themes from Demon's Souls.

In Demon's Souls there is a prison in a place called the Tower Latria. The area boss for the first of three levels ("The Prison of Hope" - as named in the remake) is called the Fool's Idol - a four armed copy made in the image of the lost Queen of the land.

Original Demon's Souls (2009)

Demon's Souls (2020):

Relevant source text:

Soul Ray "Magic from the soul of the Demon Fool's Idol Shoots off a light which pierces the target The idol was in the form of the queen of now-lost Latria This magic shows part of the power of the queen, who was also a gifted sorceress."

Former Royal's Wife Dialogue "The Queen banished her depraved old husband from the land. He returned in strange golden garb with foul Demons in tow. They pillaged great Latria, land of the learned, and locked us in this dungeon. Since then, they've been feeding off our souls… Telling us over and over that if we go above, we will be granted redemption."

The second level is called "Upper Latria" and its end boss is bipedal chimera creature called "Maneater", which is under the command of the husband with the golden garb. He is the "Old Monk" and is the end boss of the third level - "The Ivory Tower" (sortof - he's wrapped in a yellow cloth which is the actual boss that takes the form of a tornado-like funnel shape and controls another person to do the fighting). These are themes that have come up a few times in FromSoft's other games between Demon's Souls and Elden Ring.

But also there is Kalika or Kali Mata, the dark mother, goddess of time, change, creation, power, destruction and death in Shaktism since it was codified around 400-600 CE. She was first mentioned as early as 1200 BC as the "black tongue" of the seven firey tongues of the god Agni. She is depicted wearing severed heads and arms and with long wild hair (and standing on Shiva) like this:

Also Kali's abode is the Cremation Grounds. There's an odd piece of convergence here as element 19 on the periodic table is represented by the letter "K" for Kalium, but it is actually derived from the Arabic "Qali" meaning "ashes". The English name is similar "Potassium" derived from "pot ash" because this was the earliest form the element was isolated in.

One of the reasons that this is interesting is that "Kalium" burns purple in flame tests:

So, all that is to imply that Ranni's mentor the snow witch was a manifestation of Kali and a spiritual successor to the Queen of Latria and/or Fool's Idol. And the worldbuilding involving four-armed Wraith-Callers and Puppets is tied up in bringing together these themes in-universe.

Anyone got any theories on why the Carians are associated with having four arms ? all the Carian nobles we see in Liurna have four arms, the puppets have four arms, Ranni has four arms, that is kinda weird

[esclerosadogamer]

Outro Souls Like que promete! É uma cópua descarada de Bloodborne com o Pinóquio? É verdade, mas como ja dizia Peter Parker: Quem disse que isso e problema meu? Pena que é só pra nova geração, mas claro que é um jogo que tenho vontade de jogar no futuro! E você, o que achou? Deixe sua opinião nos comentários! Curta se gostou do conteúdo e siga a página! - Faço lives na twitch 21h. No momento Dark Souls III RUN só no Cestus. Segunda: Dark Souls III só no soco (Cestus) Quarta: Dark Souls III só no soco (Cestus) Sexta: Dark Souls III só no soco (Cestus) Finais de semana esporadicamente jogos com chat. LINK NA BIO - #liesofp #eldenringbr #eldenringbrasil #videogamesbrasil #gamesbrasil #ps4 #soulslore #playstation #rpg #lore #ps4br #ps4brasil #xboxbrasil #sekirobrasil #ps5brasil #twitchbrasil #darksoulsbrasil #bloodborne #darksouls2 #darksouls3 #darksoulsbrasil #demonssouls #demonsouls #eldenring #soulslikebr #sekiro #bloodbornebrasil #bloodbornebr #esclerosadogamer https://www.instagram.com/p/CWW17tXMGMq/?utm_medium=tumblr

[mrslittletall]

Wait didn’t Aldrich get visions of the age of the deep sea after he was revived and abandoned his throne?

“ Soul of Aldrich When Aldrich ruminated on the fading of the fire, it inspired visions of a coming age of the deep sea. He knew the path would be arduous, but he had no fear. He would devour the gods himself. “ You are right, it is in his soul description! The dreaming only came once he burned.  Hawkwood also says this: “Aldrich was a right and proper cleric who developed a habit of devouring men. He ate so many that he bloated like a drowned pig then softened into sludge, so they stuck him in the Cathedral of the Deep and they made him a lord of Cinder. Not for Virtue, but for Might. Such is a lord, I suppose…" So, when I see this right, the fact that Aldrich turned into sludge was the only reason why they made him into a lord of cinder.  So the idea of them loading a truck with Aldrich and dumping him on the flame isn’t even wrong.  ....Did any of the lords of cinder in Dark Souls 3 actually link the flame without being forced too?

[kellykline]

btw if anyone else went on a angel soulslore tangent and i didnt see it. pls send.

[locuas642]

SoulsLore Gameplay

I think we need to distinguish between “Dark Souls hard“ as in “beating the big bastard bosses” and “Dark Souls hard“ as in “figuring out what the fuck is going on using only information presented within the game”, because in my experience there are a lot of folks who don’t care for the first one who are very much into the second one.

[wearepaladin]

Do you know how to get into Dark Souls with out playing the game? Because I really want to see the lore, but also see if there's any good let's players.

Dark Souls isn’t, in my opinion, a very good game to Lets Play, at least if you want to know all the details about lore. Its better to play yourself, breath in the atmosphere, make your own conclusions at what you’re looking in the moment.

That said, if lore is all you care about, and listen to a scholarly voice share the story with you, VaatiVidya is the man you want to see. There are many SoulsLore experts and speculators out there, but he’s widely considered the best.

[forcedapotheosis-blog]

Idiocy, Vinsmoke Judge and .. Dark Souls III?

Small piece of advice here for you, people: If it’s 4am and you’ve got like, I don’t know, 3 hours left to sleep, you don’t start reading your favorite fanfic. Regarding how shaky my body feels and how it’s difficult to focus my thoughts, I’d say that counts as idiocy.

Heads up: This post contains some major spoilers about Sanji’s past, don’t read if you haven’t caught up on the manga yet!

Buuuut anyway, let’s get started with what this post is about! Do remember that it’s probably 100% coincidence and, even if it’s not, meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

So, I was mostly on a hiatus with One Piece and started reading the manga like less than half a year ago, during a time I was still hooked up on the video game Dark Souls III, developed by From Software under the leadership of Hidetaka Miyazaki, but that’s about as deep as I will get when it comes to the game, just wanting to give you some context about the whole thing.

Sidenote: Vinsmoke Judge, Sanji’s father and the king of Germa Kingdom, was revealed in Ch.832 (”Germa Kingdom”, July 16th, 2016), Dark Souls III was released on March 24th, 2016

Alright now, what’s this all about? 

The thing is, when I first saw the painting of Judge, I immediately thought that he kinda looked like a boss from Dark Souls III:

And the boss I thought about, conveniently named “The Nameless King”, looks like that:

So, what’s obvious about that? Right, he too uses a lightning spear! Don’t get me wrong here, I don’t know a whole lot about depictions of royalty in Japanese pop culture ( though Dark Souls always had a western low fantasy setting and, besides the names of their children, the Germa don’t look and sound  particularly Japanese to me, and I’m not even going to speak about the blatant parallels to Nazi Germany ) and maybe the spear is some kind of a recurring motif when it comes to royalty. Don’t know and, honestly, I don’t think it matters since this is written out of fun and sleep deprivation^^’

Alright, back to to topic: What you can’t see in both pictures is the height of the characters. But later in Ch.832, we get the direct comparison between Sanji and his father:

The wiki says that Sanji, post timeskip, is 1,80m/5′11″ and I’m just gonna take that at face value, that means that Judge should be very close to 3m/10ft tall. Well, is that important you might ask? Probably not, because since Dark Souls has the tradition that every “dude in armor” you fight in a more or less duel bossfight is significantly taller than the player model, but I thought to mention it anyway:

See where I’m trying to get here? Let’s have an intermediate result!

So, Vinsmoke Judge and the Nameless King are:

- both kings

- at least in my eyes, somewhat comparable in the overall design of the character, including their height comparing to a normal-sized human, having a majestic mane for a hairstyle and even sporting some kind of a scarf (well, it’s a cloak in Judge’s case, but I think it still looks rather similar) and both fight using a lighting-infused spear

- come to think of it, both even share the theme of abandoned/disinherited children (of royalty): In the case of Judge it’s pretty obvious that I’m talking about Sanji, but what about the Nameless King? Well, the soulslore-wikipage summarizes it as follows: The Nameless King was once a God of War, and was said to have respect for arms and nothing else. Sounds kinda familiar, doesn’t it? Alright, going on. One of the theories I read the most is that the Nameless King fought alongside his supposed father, Gwyn, the Lord of Sunlight, against the Everlasting Dragons, but sacrificed everything to ally himself with their kind later in the war. Needless to say, daddy Gwyn didn’t like that a whole lot and a damnatio memoriae was set in motion. If you don’t know what that is, it’s a very real practice that had been used all throughout human history when it came to persons you’d rather not have in the official annals of your country. It basically says that the person subject to it must not be remembered and every evidence that said person ever existed must be erased from the public mind! In the case of the Nameless King, it visually amounted to missing statues next to Father Gwyn and Sister Gwynevere. And in Sanji’s case, we’ve got that: 

So far, so good and not much more to talk about. The last thing I’m gonna scratch here is a very minor one and might even be considered an asspull from my side. It’s about the name Judge is also known as: Garuda. So, according to wikipedia Garuda hails from Indian mythology and is the half-man, half-eagle steed of the god Vishnu:

As I already said, this could also be considered a major asspull in a post that basically is one in and of itself^^’. But I’m going to stretch it mercilessly! Now that we know what Garuda was supposed to look like, let’s take a look at the Nameless King and his steed again:

Okay, it’s not nearly as colourful as the depiction of Garuda and it definitely isn’t half-man. But what really caught my attention was that it also - despite his allegiance with the Everlasting Dragons - is not a dragon but a stormdrake. I know that this is a rather weak comparison which I mainly included because the stormdrake sports feathers, but just for the sake of integrity I went with it.

And that’s it! I had this comparison on my mind since I first saw Judge and finally did it. Thanks for reading it and I’m terribly sorry if I bored you to death. And again, don’t start to read your favorite fanfic at 4am, it does you no good.

Stay safe out there, we wouldn’t want to see you go hollow.

[ladygwyndolin]

i am curious. why is gwyndolin referred to by he/him on the wiki? i don't go there [dark souls etc] so i genuinely have no clue

Honestly the answer to this one is such a rabbit hole that I had to make an entire twitch channel to argue about it so I doubt there's a perfectly concise way to summarize it for someone unfamiliar with the lore. IG the simplest way I would put it would be that an attempt to use the transphobic "boy secretly raised as girl" trope accidentally resulted in a mountain of evidence pointing toward the character as being a transgender woman (e.g. legitimately wearing a ring that changes her physical biology to assigned female ar birth, being directly connected to the mood which is feminine in soulslore, etc.) and many fans have come to that (imo) reasonable conclusion. Unfortunately, gamers, well, I mean. The fact that the primary meme about her character involves calling her what I'm pretty sure is a slur kinda sums it up. Tl;Dr gamers

[ladygwyndolin]

At long, long, LONG last, the finale of our Dark Souls 3 Lorethrough is up on my youtube channel! This covers the last DLC and the game's incredible ending followed by a brief Q&A and me definitely not crying at all I promise. Enjoy!

[ladygwyndolin]

Guess who FINALLY managed to get a new video up within a reasonable amount of time? Part 5 of my Dark Souls 3 lorethrough is now up on youtube!

[ladygwyndolin]

Part 4 of my Dark Souls 3 Lorethrough is FINALLY available on youtube! Consistent upload schedule WHO

[ladygwyndolin]

Part 2 of my Dark Souls 3 Lorethrough is up on youtube! Get ready for crabs, cat pictures....and lore I guess. But mostly cat pictures.

[ladygwyndolin]

Just a heads up that my entire Dark Souls 1 lgbt-focused lorethrough is now available on my youtube channel! I hope you enjoy it!