#alloplatonic aro culture

[aro-culture-is]

Not aplatonic aro culture is having a squish on somebody and feeling really cringe.

Like yes, this person seems really nice, I would love to laugh, and joke, and spend time with them, and talk, and I wish to know them, and I wish that they knew me.

We've been in the same class for three years, and we never talked more than "hi" and "do you know I'd we have math homework".

They probably don't even care if I exist.

I feel so stupid

oh noooo you have a genuine feeling! seriously, it's not "cringe" to care about people: talk to them. it's good to form connections, and if it doesn't work out... seriously, it will be okay. Most people care about people they see regularly, to at least some degree.

[officeobject]

"Which is perfect for couples -"

Me who thought it was for me and/or my friends: 😧

[shiutsu]

I got the idea from some of the reblogs from my previous aplatonic dedicated post.

Like as I mentioned several times on this blog, alloplatonics obsess over friendships & think everyone has the same experience.

Like as if everyone had a specific friend they just like the most out of the other friends & who would pick them over anyone else.

Like man idk where you got that,but I recommend you to open your eyes or stopped smoking something since this is the most delusional shit I've seen.

Not everyone is the fucking same!! Like if you spread nonsense how every single person is different but think that everyone acts the same or has the same opinions as you, then you're pretty hypocritical.

[gillipop-plus]

@reblogforsamplesize could you do the thing you do (also anyone else who wants to pls reblog)

edit: it is done! @platonic-culture-is now exists!

[some-siren]

Aroace alloplatonic culture is having a very specific hierarchy of friendship in your mind but being completely unable to explain it

[amorous-apothipl]

i wont lie to ya, i think we're goin' too hard on the aros.

i am a culprit of this, don't get me wrong. i understand the rationale behind it. aplatonicism is heavily related and in proximity to aromanticism (and other aspec communities). it also is a great example of a culture who (most often) puts friendship above any other sort of relationship; one, too, that advocates for the normalization of friendship being an important part of anyone's life--regardless of whether they're in a romantic relationship or not.

i've noticed that we, as aplatonics, are pushing for the normalization of platonicism and friendship as optional. that, as well as pointing out how prevalent it is in our societies, sometimes causing stress or harm to an individual's wellbeing with us wanting to challenge how much it is brought upon people.

and i think we're toxic with how we approach the aromantic's ideas. we see them as doing bad unto us. i think it's because they're so concentrated and readily available, easy to point out as something aplatonics might be against or averse to.

aromantics are not our enemies. they are not trying to go against us. they are not trying to stamp us out.

they are just trying to exist in a world where romantic desire and relationships are the end-all be-all of *life*. an example: if you aren't married by the time your deathbed arrives, you're seen as pitiful, unfulfilled, wasted, among other things.

they're trying to find a place where they can explore their aromanticism and relationships and their feelings regarding that. for many, that's going to involve reevaluating how they were taught to think about friendship: as second to having a partner. that's not something we should take away from or denounce, for we are doing the same.

aplatonics are trying to find a place where we can explore our aplatonicism and relationships and our feelings regarding that. for many, that's going to involve reevaluating how we were taught to think about friendship: as something everyone wants, does have, and should have.

i think we should work to understand their ideas, how aromanticism and it's culture work within someone and their life, and how we can accept their viewpoints without tearing them down just because it doesn't explicitly disclaim that they're alloplatonic and aren't against aplatonicism.

our ideas play together. both romanticism and platonicism are major heads within the social world, both having their strangleholds over the population.

please keep this in mind going forward. be nuanced when talking about the aromantic's ideas. be nuanced when talking about the aplatonic's ideas. understand how we are both communities of which highlight the domination of the two forces and use that to your advantage.

TL;DR (Please still read though!)--------------------------------------

aros point out how romanticism works against us

apls point out how platonicism works against us

these ideas are both valid, and work together

apls rag on aros too much just because they're easy to point to as a perpetuation of platonormativity

aros's "platonormativity" is most often just a deconstruction of how they've been taught to see relationship, them getting more in tune with how they wanna do their shit (just like we are)

don't denounce aro ideas and lives on the basis of it not being congruent with your own ideals and how you may think it goes against apl ideas

critically assess aro ideas with an understanding that it might not be for you and you're allowed to interpret the work as you wish, perhaps even trying to understand it from your own apl perspective

Thanks for reading! Feel free to add you own ideas for or against any/all of my points; I feel this is important to how we go forth as a communities.

I come at this from the perspective of a romance ambivalent aromantic and platonic repulsed aplatonic.

[lovelessrage]

Platonic love isn't an "aro thing". Platonic love's presence doesn't make something aro. While platonic love may be a part of certain people's individual experiences [such as labels that don't distinguish between love types, or people who just care about it a lot], painting it as the one path to making "good rep", as the way to "be" aro, and as the pinnacle of aro experiences is very exclusionary. This might be how you experience being aro, but it's also part of the alloplatonic aro experience. That isn't even mentioning the fact that aros don't hold a monopoly on platonic love, and many alloromos feel just as strongly about it.

Aro culture isn't being alloplatonic. Aplatonic aros have always been here. We deserve recognition, respect, and being included in conversations surrounding how we, as aros, are represented.

[entropy-sea-system]

Because not many people are talking about it, I'm making a post on what constitutes platonormativity!

Platonormativity here refers to the idealisation of friendship and viewing friendship as essential and mandatory.

Im putting this under the cut as this is a long post

[If this personally offends you or you're an exclus or think I am not aware of how friendship is also deprioritised, etc. honestly this post is not really for you lol]

Things that can be platonormative:

-Assuming that everyone has friends, and viewing it as a red flag or a sign of mental illness if someone doesn't have friends, and/or expecting them to be actively looking for friends

-Claiming that one must be 'friends first' before a romantic or sexual or other relationship in order for it to work out

-Treating friendship as inherently more stable and long-lasting than other relationship types

-Using the term friend for people without considering whether they actually are okay with that term or whether they actually want to be your friend, or otherwise considering someone your friend when they are not explicitly okay with that

-Claiming that aros and aces must "at least have friends" or experience platonic love or platonic attraction because of their 'lack'

-Claiming that everyone should have friends

-Profiling people who don't seem to have friends as a "suicide liability"

-Being ableist towards people whose ability to make or keep friends or want friends or otherwise engage in social bonds is diminished by their (physical or mental) disability and/or neurodivergence

-Assuming that everyone is alloplatonic and friending and plato-favorable

-Assuming that no one is monogamous for friendship

-Considering it inherently "unhealthy" or "increasing risk of abuse" if someone has a partner(s) but not friends

-Forcing friendship as something mandatory even when people are toddlers or very young children

-Assuming a couple/other partners are solely "friends" due to them being polyamorous, queer, or other reasons

-Assuming that people who interact in certain ways must be friends

-Treating friendship as something inherently more "wholesome" or as something that can never be used for harm unless it was a pretence

-Blaming a lack of friendship rather than the harmful behaviour itself when it comes to 'pickup artists' and other people who act entitled to sex, romance, or other things

-Calling aplatonics with a connection to romance "amatonormative" for existing

-Treating the dismantling of amatonormativity, relationship anarchy, and aro activism as an excuse to enforce friendship as something that is mandatory

-Claiming that 'aro culture' is basically (insert alloplatonic and/or plato favorable experience)

-Assuming that ALL demiromantic and/or demisexual people must require friendship as the bond after which it is a possibility for them to experience attraction

-Assuming that every alloaro must want a 'friends with benefits' type of relationship

-Assuming that anything thats nonromantic and/or nonsexual has to be platonic(friendship)

-Reinforcing a platonic-romantic binary

-Claiming that friendship cannot involve sex or romance ever

-Assuming that queerplatonic relationships are friendship or always involve friendship

-Looking down on others for not giving priority to friendship or not engaging in friendship

-Media being saturated with friendship and not many media existing without having friendship in it

-Not understanding that people can be repulsed by friendship and/or platonicism

[wherefore-whinnies]

tl;dr if you say things like "there's no heterosexual/platonic explanation for this" or "historians will say they were roommates" or think a character not wanting romance/friendship is a thing to be fixed or think that actions are inherently romantic without considering the intent behind them or insist that ace attorney is ~the gay lawyer game~ or a whole variety of other aphobic behaviour that's been normalized in fandom please either unfollow me or commit to learning about aspec people and amatonormativity and changing your behaviour.

I've had people tell me stuff like "I'm sure most people in your fandoms are nice, decent people! if you just tell them about the things they do that are harmful I'm sure they will listen and try to change!" and "if you just sit there and feel bad about it nothing will ever change! not with that attitude!" about amatonormativity in fandom and like okay would you like to take on that responsibility then? would you like to try to educate people on how the basic way they engage with fandom is blatantly erasing a whole group of queer people? would you like to be the person telling a bunch of people who think the way they engage with fandom is so progressive and good that actually it's really not? would you like to bring up the word aphobia in regards to the things they post and bring to mind completely relevant parallels with things like homophobia and transphobia that they think they're above?

aro people get dogpiled and subjected to hate and mistreatment online just for saying they'd like to see more platonic friendships in media. ace people get dogpiled and subjected to hate and mistreatment online just for saying they don't like how unnecessary sex scenes have become a thing to be shoved so commonly into media. people will start screaming "homophobia!" and "purity culture!" and making up all these strawmen to argue against so that they can feel superior to and condescend to and make fun of aspecs. any mention of kink at pride invariably devolves into rampant and blatant acephobia from a website that insists acephobia is a thing of its past and they're so much better now. and it's not just random internet strangers. it gets put on my dash by people who are supposed to be my friends. so again. would you like to be the one to so nicely and politely explain to people and ask that aspecs pretty please be recognized as a portion of the queer community that matters and is worthy of respect?

at this point people know that aspec people exist and they continue to do this anyway. they'll claim to care about aspec people and insist that this is true until it comes to them actually having to change their behaviour. people don't want to accept that things they are doing are wrong and harmful. that's just how people are. allo (and even some aro, somehow) queers think they are engaging with fandom in such a progressive and morally pure way and do you really want to be the one to tell them that they're not?

I have had friends who have known perfectly well that I hate romance, have seen this on numerous, numerous occassions, and have still expected me to be thrilled about a particular romance because it was gay. (somehow people do not seem to realize that they are literally saying gay romance is not real romance when they do this. and yet I'm the homophobe.) it's really not a simple matter of just "explaining to people". not to mention that having to try to educate people on all this is fucking exhausting. aside from the actual figuring out what to say and how to say it and writing it all down you have to worry about the person not understanding anyway, or just brushing it all aside with cries of "homophobia!".

so you know, maybe consider taking some of that on instead of piling it all on my shoulders when I'm the one who will be most harmed by the outcome!

and please don't take this to mean that I want all of fandom to be all about friendships either. I may be alloplatonic but I am shaking hands with all my aplatonic comrades who are even more neglected in this sense than aros are. and in general, I would like to do what I can to speak out for you knowing that I am somewhat shielded from the outcome by virtue of being alloplatonic.

I've lost the thread of what I was ranting about at this point but no one's read this far anyway so 😇 anyway, if you do any of the stuff I wrote in the tl;dr and haven't unfollowed me yet and read this far instead (thank you!), please please please consider educating yourself on amatonormativity and how those kinds of comments are actually erasing an entire class of relationships had especially by, but not exclusively by, aspec people. please don't just dismiss this with the kneejerk reaction of "homophobia!!!". aspec people are queer people too and don't deserve to be erased for the purpose of propping other queer communities up. there are respectful ways to engage with fandom and shipping without doing this.

anyway i got a bunch of new followers and wanted to make sure to scare the aphobic ones away sooner rather than later :)

[askanaroace]

Carnival of Aros: Loneliness Round-Up Post

July's Carnival of Aros theme of Loneliness is a wrap!

I got a ton of really great - and diverse - responses.

I Am Charles Baker Harris shared her piece "On Singleness and Christian Culture", weaving together personal anecdotes on being single and never having a serious relationship at age 29, the influence of Christian purity culture on dating and romance, and how being single has historically been empowering and even a rebellion against patriarchy. Phoebefrog submitted "Loneliness", detailing what loneliness feels like to them and how they plan on trying to combat this feeling. Sildarmillion wrote both "Maybe someday I will meet somebody like me" and "Relationship advice be all about dating". "Maybe someday" is a personal observation on kindred spirits and connection. "Relationship advice" is the observation that society only seems to recognize romantic(+sexual) relationships on multiple levels. Tabby-shieldmaiden produced her piece "Connect" on how finding the right label for you can help you feel less alone, as it did her, including a plea to take intracommunity issues seriously so that EVERYONE can feel welcome and connected. Finally, on this askanaroace blog, I admitted "I Don't Think I Experience It" after polling four alloplatonic alloromantic allosexuals who had very strong, heartbreaking descriptions of what loneliness felt like to them.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and time!

If this has inspired you at all to participate more actively in the carnival via hosting, please reach out to Carnival of Aros to volunteer!

[aro-culture-is]

Aro culture is wanting a platonic version of tinder so fricking bad

[officeobject]

I know this isn't exclusive to being aro and/or ace (as modeled by this bisexual agreeing/relating), but I don't know what else to tag, and it's probably more common with aro and/or ace people (same goes for autism).

Do tell me if you want a FREE CUSTOM WALLPAPER, of the third message in the chat (FOR FREE).

[aromantisk-fagforening]

I think one thing that alienates me from certain parts of the aro community here is that I'm anattractional.

I have no interest in participating in attraction-based culture. I don't wish I felt attraction so I could relate to the alloallos, I'm mad at them. I'm mad at the culture.

I don't find it useful to think of friendships as being based on platonic attraction. I have a very regular relationship to friendships and that should be fine. I feel like the alloplatonic/aplatonic framework isn't for me.

it feels like it I adopt an alloplatonic or aplatonic label I'm adding an extra layer of seperation that doesn't exist for me. I never felt alienated because of lack of interest/attraction to friends. I never saw anyone talk about friendship as attraction anywhere else so I don't feel like I'm a part of the alloplatonic. I will say I am friending (as opposed to nonfriending). but in the way that I just randomly end up as friends with people who are physically near or have the same interests.

I don't experience tertiary attraction. I'm not oriented aroace. I'm not angled aroace. That framework has only served to make me more alienated. Not to say people don't experience tertiary attraction. but to say I am atetriary. if I want to hug someone that's because I want a hug, not because I thought something special about some individual. I'm atetriary.

I consider myself anattractional (& friending). I usually go by aro or aroace. I don't relate to alloaces at all, nor do I relate to oriented/angled aroaces. I probably relate more to aroallos than oriented aroaces. (based on what blogs I enjoy following). I don't exclusively relate or not relate to aplatonics.

[gillipop-plus]

the #aro tag is full of stuff about nonromantic love and the #platonic relationship tag is full of stuff about qprs

debated posting this on @platonic-culture-is but that's meant to be a chill space for alloplatonic/grayplatonics and bringing up why i made it seems like a bad idea :/

[acespec-ed]

I don't get "demiplatonic". I've looked at the definition and it seems like that's just cultural. "Alloplatonic" people who talk with literally everyone and make friends everywhere they go are not very common in my culture, small talk with strangers is kinda odd. Only calling people you're actually close to your friends is like. Well everyone does that. Like I think you just don't like American culture lol

I'm not demiplatonic myself, but yeah, I think culture plays a huge role in why someone uses a label. The thing with platonic attraction though, is it's more of a desire to make friends with a specific person, than actually becoming friends. So a demiplatonic would have no interest in being friends with anyone in particular, but once they form a bond with a person, there’s a chance they’ll start feeling a desire to become friends with that person in particular.

I'm aplatonic, so I don't really understand what platonic attraction even feels like. I've never felt a desire to be friends with anyone even after I've gotten to know them. All my friendships just sort of fell onto my lap. They all took initiative to do friendship things with me while I was just, like, okie dokie I guess we're friends now. Demiplatonics, however, would probably take that initiative to do friendship things with the person they got to know. Alloplatonics, I assume, feel an initiative to become friends with a specific person no matter how well they know the person. I could be wrong, but it’s possible that this is still the case with many people in your culture. Like, they’ll meet someone they want to get to know better. Someone they see as a potential future friend. Or someone they’d be interested in seeing if they are friendship material. And so, they might take steps to become that person's friend while still sticking to cultural norms. And they definitely wouldn’t call them a friend until they’re close, no matter how badly they want to be that person’s friend. (Like how an alloromantic wouldn’t seriously say their crush their boyfriend, no matter how much they want to date him.) A demiplatonic wouldn't experience any of that, because they never feel any desire to become friends with a person they haven’t bonded with. 

Since it looks normal in your culture, most people who would count as demiplatonic probably have no interest in the label, because it's such a cultural norm to them. But demiplatonics in places like the US, would be more likely to embrace the label because they see everyone around them making friends with people they just met and feel like a weirdo because friendship doesn't work that way for them. Kinda like how I could call myself arospec, but I don't, because not being in a relationship was seen as normal for me so I don't have much interest in using the label. Whereas someone who has similar feelings as me felt broken because marriage was an expectation for them growing up. And so, they would most likely place themselves on the aro spectrum. I think a lot of label usage comes down to that. Cultural norms and upbringing. What’s normal to one person is abnormal to another.

Regardless, I find life easier if I let people identify however they want, even if I don’t understand it. If it’s in good faith, then whatever makes the person happy is fine by me.

[aro-absol]

1, 5, 9, 13

Thanks for the ask! And thank you for making the ask game by the way, I am enjoying it very much.

1. What is your place on the aromantic spectrum? Do you use any specific labels for romantic attraction?

I just go by aromantic. I don't think I've ever felt romantic attraction and none of the aro microlabels feels like home. Besides, I'm enjoying using less specific label because it makes me feel closer to other aros. No matter where exactly on the aromantic spectrum a person is, we're all aromantic and that's super cool.

5. Do you experience any attraction you choose not to label?

Well, being a non-SAM aro I don't label my sexual attraction but I'm also not sure if I even experience that attraction. When it comes to tertiary attraction, I still need to figure out what it means to me personally. I still need to find a definition of attraction that works for me.

That being said, I'm pretty sure I'm alloplatonic. I desire friendship and around some friends, I feel very warm inside sometimes. Whether that is something that falls under attraction or if I feel more comfortable calling it affection or another term is something I'll start figuring out in the future. I don't get squishes to the point of strong infatuation, though. Still, I think I have a very normative experience with friendship, and therefore I am technically alloplatonic. I don't really call myself that, though (because most allos don't even know it's a thing). The only time I do say it is when I reblog something about aplatonic experiences or something that describes different views on friendship within the aromantic community, just to make sure that I can't speak for any aplatonics. So that might fall into this category? Other than that, not really.

9. What is something you think is ‘non-SAM aro culture’ or inherently non-SAM aro? Either serious or joking?

I honestly can't think of anything.

13. What is your favourite thing about being non-SAM aro?

That I can just be aro. When you use no sexuality label, people need to refer to you as aromantic when talking about your orientation (considering they want to refer to you correctly). I'm not out to anyone, so I don't know from experience, but that sounds pretty nice.

Another big thing for me is that I don't have to let people in on my sexual desires (or lack thereof). Sex life and sexual desire are things that feel very private to me, so I don't see why so many people should know whether I want someone sexually or not. Besides, most allos think of asexuality as voluntary celibacy (I know that's not true, you know that's not true, but the allos don't) and my sex life is just none of people's business. Then again, I'm not out at all, so I don't know.