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funhouse-mirror-barbie · 2 months ago

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How I would re-write Stella Goetia, Backstory + Season 1

Probably my most popular posts on this blog are about Stella from Helluva Boss. I like to talk about her because I think she had the potential to be a really nuanced character, and I really would’ve loved to see her and Stolas have a more complicated relationship.

So I’d like to talk about the direction I would’ve taken her characterization and story in.

I do need to stress that this is NOT a writing “fix-it” post. Canon Stella may be an evil bitch, but she’s MY evil bitch and I LOVE HER. I’ve already talked quite at length about how her character and conflict with Stolas being purely black and white is not a bad story decision, but to me is less interesting than having a grey or nuanced conflict.

I just want to go over a rough outline of what I would’ve done with her as a character. Just because it’s different, doesn’t mean it’s better or is “fixing” the canon story. I also am not trying to make Stella inherently more sympathetic/likable/or “woobify” her—this is just a ROUGH outline of what I’d do to flesh Stella out as a person, and ideas I’ve had for her character that would make her (and her relationships with Stolas and Via) more appealing to me personally.

I just really wish Stella had gotten more depth, and wanted to talk about it.

(LONG) Rewrite Summary below!!!

While I think there’s also an interesting re-write where Stella and Stolas are not in an arranged marriage, and may explore this idea as well, this time around I am going to be sticking with the canon background that their marriage was arranged.

Instead of having Stella be an evil heartless spoiled child who strangles puppies, I would give her a very strict upbringing where from birth she was groomed to be the “perfect noblewoman and wife”—I would base her upbringing and the expectations placed on her on what was expected of Regency noblewomen.

Basically, Stella would be raised to be able to run the house/estate when Stolas was away, be accomplished in the “domestic arts” (hosting events such as parties and balls, being able to do embroidery and other hobbies “befitting” of her class, and being involved in charitable efforts). She would be taught to be quiet, graceful, courteous, and to always anticipate the needs of her husband.

Stella’s “true” personality as a young child would be boisterous, loud, and precocious. Stella loved playing outside, singing loudly, and dancing.

She would have gotten in trouble with her parents often due to this (“Dancing for fun is what the poor do, Darling. You should only dance to find a suitable husband”) and would be punished by her Father by his ordering the rest of the family and their staff to ignore Stella completely and act like she didn’t exist. This would usually result in Stella acting out even more to try and MAKE everyone pay attention to her, until she’d get too tired to continue and start acting “proper” (I.e. quiet, not speaking too loud or speaking out of turn, being obedient, etc.)

Her relationship with Andrealphus would have been strained, as he would have been the “golden child” while Stella would be the scapegoat. I’d also like to give Stella magic fire powers. Because honestly why does Andre get Ice Magic and Stolas get space magic and Stella is the same type of demon as them apparently and gets nothing??? Boring.

Maybe this is basic, but honestly I love characters with fire powers who have to learn to control them. As child, Stella would have difficulty controlling her fire abilities, and would be not be taught how to use or maintain her powers, but would be taught to suppress them.

As an aside—again, I’m not giving Stella a traumatic childhood to make her more likable and more pitiable. I have two reasons I’m giving her this backstory—1) I believe that even people with great parents still end up with some childhood trauma, because being alive and growing up *is* traumatic. And 2) I think that there’s a lot of pretty good evidence that ROYAL upbringings, and the expectations and restrictions that come with them, are especially traumatic in a very particular and very intense way.

Doesn’t mean that they’re not extremely privileged, but that privilege also doesn’t take away that trauma.

I think it’s very realistic for both Stella AND Stolas, as children of royalty and nobility, to have a lot of childhood trauma surrounding their upbringings, and that’s something I really want to explore in my rewrite—how they cope with their traumas and how it impacts their relationship and their ability to raise their daughter and navigate conflict.

By an older teen to young adult, she would have learned how to behave as a “perfect noblewoman”. This is when she would meet Stolas for the first time (with a a Chaperone of course).

There would be a little bit of time shortly before and after their marriage where they would have their “honeymoon” period—both Stella and Stolas were very infatuated with each other and mistook that infatuation for “true love”.

This time where they were extremely infatuated with each other would last about a year, after which they would slowly begin to realize that the idealized images they had of one another was false. They would start to argue more, have a harder time compromising etc. until they finally realized they fell out of love, and maybe were never in love in the first place.

Even though the two of them would have come to this realization, it would be separately, and due to their upbringings (where you don’t really talk about your feelings and push them down) they would NOT talk to each other about it.

This would be the first big crack in their relationship, and they would both have a lot of guilt over it.

I like the idea of the two of them really, really want to stay in love with each other, but after they get to TRULY know each other they just…never fully “click”. They realize they don’t have the same interests, they can’t really find anything to talk about, and they just. They don’t stay in love.

Stella would be very in denial about her true feelings after this turning point, and would still try to convince herself that she really loves Stolas. She would have a lot of deeply buried guilt over not loving him, and see it as a failure of her “duties” as his wife.

After this, they would find a way to keep their relationship would be cordial and respectful, but it would always tinged by an unspoken awkwardness. It would be almost business-like in nature, and they would start spending more and more time apart.

To cope with this lackluster relationship that they were both now stuck in, Stolas would throw himself fully into his duties (which I would want to show a little more of…seriously what does…what does he do??? What does he use the grimoire for????) and Stella would do the same—throwing herself into her duties as the lady of the house and a Goetia Princess.

Stella would host parties and balls, she’d make sure manor was always clean and orderly, she’d become a patron of the arts.

The basis of their relationship would become one of them sticking to the roles that were thrust upon them since birth.

Things WOULD change for the better though after Octavia’s birth.

Because for a while, Stolas and Stella would have something, someone, that brought them together, that they both loved and cared for dearly.

Something that Stella and Stolas would have spoken about before having Octavia is that they did NOT, under any circumstance, want to raise Via like they were raised.

As I already went over, both Stella and Stolas would have dealt with abuse and neglect growing up—Stolas’ abuse stems from his parents being LARGELY absent in his life and him being very neglected as a child, while Stella’s stems from her parents being extremely controlling and giving her very little, if any, freedom.

They would firmly agree on letting Via be her own person, on making time for her, on not putting too many expectations on her.

And, in this rewrite, I would not have them be abusive or neglectful parents. But I would have them be very flawed parents, whose own traumatic upbringings negatively affect their ability to raise Via.

I would want to explore Stella and Stolas fighting to break the cycle of abuse they went through, but still struggling because they don’t have a good frame of reference for what being a good parent looks like.

Stolas doesn’t realize that he’s not always giving Octavia all the time with him she needs, because in his eyes he’s spending tons of time with her—it doesn’t occur to him that he’s actually being neglectful towards her, because to him, spending any long amount of time with her is more than he ever got from his father. He’ll spend time with her, and talk to her, but not really LISTEN to what she’s saying she needs, and doesn’t understand why she doesn’t like the things she used to, or is mad at him for not taking more time for her.

Stella doesn’t realize she’s still being controlling or pushing her expectations onto Octavia by making passive aggressive comments suggesting she wear more “appropriate” or “feminine” clothing, or take up a “nicer” hobby like needlepoint and drop taxidermy. She gives Via the freedom to choose what she wants to do, but doesn’t fully SUPPORT those choices, and doesn’t understand why that’s so important, since in the end Octavia is still enjoying freedoms that Stella only dreamed of as a child.

Still, they manage to be a fairly functional and loving family towards Octavia. And Stolas and Stella maintain their cordial and business like relationship for Octavia’s sake, and to keep up appearances.

During Octavia’s teen years, when she’s 14-17, is when more cracks begin to show—Stella and Stolas have been keeping their relationship together, but it’s stagnating more and more. Stolas throws himself even more into his duties with the stars (or whatever) and Stella begins to become gradually more and more concerned and anxious about making sure her family maintains a “perfect” reputation among the other royals of hell.

Stella begins to throw more balls and parties for Hell’s charities (if this version of hell has banks, and police and prisons, they can have charitable organizations, okay.) As her and Stolas’s anniversary starts to get closer, she begins planning a HUGE ball for Hell’s nobility to celebrate. It’s hugely important to her.

While she’s doing all of this, Stolas is beginning to have an early-to-mid-life crisis. His work and duties that used to be engaging and fun are feeling more and more like a chore, his relationship with Stella has stagnated and is purely for show, he’s getting more and more anxious about Octavia approaching adulthood, and his whole life is beginning to feel more and more claustrophobic.

So. Stolas decides to do something wild, spontaneous, and very selfish, before he loses it. On a night where Stella is attending an Opera, and Via is spending the night with friends from school*, Stolas dresses in clothes he assumes “the common folk” would wear, and goes to shady bar in IMP city, with the goal of meeting someone to hook up with.

This is where Stolas meets Blitzø. (Sorry, I’m. I’m not doing the whole “paid childhood friends for one day” background.)

They have what both assume will be a one night stand at Blitzø’s place. It goes. MUCH better than either of them would have expected sex-wise. The two start meeting up more and more when they’re able to. Stolas begins to open up more to Blitzø, but it stays VERY sexual—eventually Stolas comes clean about who he is and they start to hook up at Stolas’ place whenever Stella is out. Stolas is very much infatuated with Blitzø (and the sex they have). Blitzø thinks they’re having non-complicated fun.

During AAALLL of this is when Blitzø learns about the Grimoire, and asks if he can “borrow” it for I.M.P. Stolas is impressed with Blitzø’s confidence and drive, and agrees to let Blitzø use it anytime, with the one exception being the night of the full moon. There is no full moon “deal” beyond the agreement that Blitzø cannot accept clients on the full moon because Stolas needs the book back that night.

During all of this is ALSO when Stella begins to notice Stolas acting differently, he’s slightly more energetic, he’s spending less and less time in his study and the manor in general, he doesn’t look her in the eyes when they do have time to chat briefly. It’s odd, and she’s suspicious of SOMETHING going on but she’s not sure what.

Stolas DOES feel guilty about cheating on Stella, but justifies it by telling himself that they’re not in a “true” marriage, and it’s “just sex”, so he’s not really cheating on Stella.

The night of Stella and Stolas’s anniversary ball arrives. To Stella, everything goes as expected, and it’s a huge success.

During the ball, though, we get the same scene we get in the Circus—Blitzø gets caught trying to sneak into Stolas’ room. Instead of the guards bringing him into the party, they call Stolas outside privately to deal with it (because why would the disrupt the party by dragging a party-crasher through the middle of a fancy ball?? I didn’t really understand why they did that in the og episode)

Stolas dismisses the guards, and we learn that Blitzø has been sneaking in (with Stolas’ permission+ knowledge) to get the grimoire after the full moon when he and Stolas don’t have time to meet up in person. Like tonight.

Instead of just handing off the grimoire like usual, Stolas and Blitzø end up hooking up (mutually and wholly consensually). Stolas does not return to the party.

Stella is really concerned about how Stolas’ absence looks, especially at a ball she planned with so many high profile demon lords present, but she’s able to wave it off as Stolas feeling a little tired and retiring early, due to it being the day after his full moon duties and all.

Instead of returning to their room, that night, Stella sleeps in one of the many guest rooms. She doesn’t know where Stolas is, but she’s mad at him for leaving early without saying anything on such an important night, and is hoping not coming to their bed will send a message—she’s tired anyway and doesn’t want to get in a big fight before bed that will tire her out more.

The next morning she has tea in the garden with some close friends. And this is where we get the infamous “Sorry, I fucked your husband!” scene.

After this, well. Stella kinda loses her shit. She had been pushing down all of her negative feelings and thoughts and frustrations surrounding her life and relationship for YEARS, because in her mind, as long as she was able to maintain the facade of having a “perfect” life, it would be worth it.

And now in a moment she’s lost the thing that, after her daughter, mattered to her the most.

She essentially explodes in fury in a way Stolas has never seen before—they get in a huge argument—Stella’s fire powers come out and burn down the manor’s garden, things just really get out of hand.

So. What would follow would be most of what we see of Stella in season 1 of HB—now that that floodgate has been opened, she finds she’s struggling to control her feelings, she’s mad and sad ALL THE TIME, and she’s deeply deeply hurt in a way she didn’t know she could be.

She can’t show her face in society, she doesn’t know WHAT to say to Octavia, she can’t believe Stolas could be SO SELFISH after EVERYTHING she had done to make sure their family was in high standing—and she can’t push down her feelings anymore. She’s never been so furious in her entire life.

And so she contacts a hitman, Striker.

I really like the old fan theory that Stella hired Striker in a moment of irrationality and anger because of how hurt she was—obviously her hurt does not justify trying to have her husband MURDERED, but I like the idea that she called the hit because she was deeply hurt and unable to cope with those feelings—not because she just hates him to the core of his being and has for their entire marriage. Her anger would be a coping mechanism, if she’s so busy feeling furious she doesn’t have to actually sit with her feelings of betrayal and sadness and hurt.

From here, the rest of season one would play out like in canon, we don’t see Stella in person again, just the apparition of her in Ozzie’s.

I’m going to stop here because this post is already way too long, it it’ll help me to think more if I split it up.

If you read this far please tell me what you think! I think I’d like overall for Stella and Stolas’ relationship to mirror Blitzø and Verosika’s, or maybe become a foil to it. From here we could honestly go either way—either Stella becomes a true villain, or she becomes an antagonist turned hesitant ally like Fizz, Ozzie, and Verosika.

I can see both being interesting, so maybe I’ll do a rewrite for both. We’ll see I guess.

*it weirds me the FUCK out that we don’t know anything about what Hell’s kids do, like I assume schools exist but ???anyway in this rewrite Stella and Stolas send Octavia to a fancy private school—cause the thought of her having NO friends or social circle makes me so sad)

#helluva boss critical #hb critical #hb critique #helluva boss critique #helluva boss critic #hb critic #hb rewrite #helluva boss rewrite #Stella hb #stella helluva boss #stella goetia #Stella Goetia hb #I guess this is technically a Stolitz rewrite too but I don’t want to tag that #cause I feel like Stolitz fans might attack me and I don’t have time for all of that #funhouse convo #media criticism #media critique

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zvtara-was-never-canon · 11 days ago

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What do you think, Azula and Zuko are more alike than their fans want to admit or are they completely opposite and going in different directions?

ANON, YOU FOOL, YOU OPENED THE FLOODGATES!

Azula and Zuko are a classic case of "same writing, different font." Just two sides of the same coin. Zuko is who Azula would be if she had been the scapegoat of the family, wore her heart on her sleeve, was just a good bender instead of a prodigy, and was willing to question Ozai. Azula is who Zuko would be if he managed to suppress emotions, didn't get in his own way due to impatience/desperate need to prove himself, was the golden child and never questioned Ozai in any way.

They have MANY things in common. Both are stubborn, proud, deeply patriotic, ambitious, social disasters yet super badass when in their element, passionate about their beliefs and, more importantly, take their roles VERY seriously - what creates contrast between them is what said roles are. Azula is the "perfect", ruthless, cunning princess that was taught to be proud about not caring for others. Zuko is disgraced son that has to prove himself (to himself, to Ozai, and, later on, to the world) that he is worthy of being the future Fire Lord.

This point is even highlighted by the role reversal that happened in the Last Agni Kai, in which Zuko is winning by using Azula's tactics, letting her attack and waste all her energy, while he saves up his own so he can strike full force once she's too tired - he even tries to goad her into using lightining so he can redirect it and win, and it would have probably worked if Azula hadn't found an easy target in Katara. Their strategies, levels of confidence and even personalities change to be more like their sibling's based on their situation.

They're also driven by the same fears: of not being good enough, of not being worthy enough, of not being loved. Fiting considering they were indoctrinated/traumatized by the same system/person, under the same roof, even if they were abused in different ways.

We see them making a ton of the same mistakes as well.

Zuko wants to make the ship go through a dangerous storm to chase the Avatar because "the safety of the grew doesn't matter", Azula has her infamous "Do the tides command this ship?" moment.

Azula banishes everyone because she's struggling to cope with her friends' "betrayal", Zuko becomes a much more cruel and self person after being disfigured by Ozai and even tries to get away from Iroh several times.

Azula is verbally abusive to her brother and sometimes her friends, Zuko is verbally abusive to their uncle.

Azula throws Zuko under the bus to be in Ozai's good graces, Zuko throws Iroh under the bus to win his dad's affection.

That last one is also part of a very noticeable pattern: Whenever Zuko is being unapologetic about being a villain, he tends to be VERY cunning and one hell of backstaber.

The Avatar returned but he couldn't capture him? He tried to keep it a secret. If no one else knows about it, they can't steal his chance to go home by capturing him first.

Some pirates want to attack the Gaang because they stole a scroll? Free henchmen. He just has to pretend this kid he wants to capture is not the Avatar, and thus not worth A LOT more than what these guys are getting as a reward. Zuko even has the nerve to go "Don't listen to him, he's just trying to divide us" when Sokka points out that he's REALLY screwing them over with this deal (they should make a support group with Long Feng).

Zhao captured the Avatar before he could? Go kidnap that monk back. It doesn't matter that Aang's capture means the nation Zuko genuinely loves will have no true obstacle in it's path for victory: If he's not the one scoring that major win, NO ONE is. His nation and his family can have their moment of glory AFTER he got his, not a second earlier.

Zhao tried to kill him and is going after the Avatar again? Time to dress up as one of his men to be taken by the idiot himself to the North Pole so he can interfere with his plans - literally the same as Azula pretending to be Suki, taking over Ba Sing Se and as a bonus discovering about their plans for the eclipse.

Azula is tracking Aang to capture him? Just follow right behind her and wait until she doesn't have her friends along so he has a better chance of winning the fight against her and being the one to take the Avatar to Ozai.

Oh, he was brought home because the Avatar is "dead"... except that might not be true, so maybe he'll be banished again? Mouth shut, Azula is the one who "killed" him anyways. Worse comes to worse, send an assassin to finish the job.

Hell, even when he's already determined to be a good person, he calls himself stupid for not blaming the whole assassin thing on his sister. Literally blaming her for his fuck up, the same way she did with that "Zuko was the one who killed the Avatar" thing.

His POV in Earth Kingdom Chronicles also give us some insight into what exactly he was thinking during the events of Crossroads of Destiny:

Zuko, I’m begging you,” Uncle said. “Look into your heart and see what it is that you truly want.” “You are free to choose,” Azula said. Then she and the Dai Li left. She is right. I am free to choose. And Uncle is right too. I must look into my heart and find what it is I truly want. That is easy. It’s what I’ve always wanted. I cannot deny my heart, my heritage, and who I truly am. I raced from the cell out into an open courtyard, where Azula was battling Katara and the Avatar. They had reached a stalemate, and then they were each waiting to see who would strike next. I did. I sent a fire blast that landed right between them. They were all looking at me, wondering what my next move would be. Good. I will show them my choice, the choice I always knew I would make.

Uncle looked at me without saying a word. Then he looked away. I can tell he’s very disappointed in me. But I had to do what I did.

Zuko is, to the Gaang, what Azula is to him: the wildcard, a huge pain in the ass, the unreliable son of a bitch that every so often gets them to chill just enough that they forget they REALLY shouldn't trust him, as he has a tendency of putting himself first, screw everyobody else. And much like he struggled to win their forgiveness and friendship after all that nonsense, Azula has to deal with Zuko's understandable suspicion of her intentions whenever she actually feels like genuinely being a good sister to him.

And what makes that parallel even more obvious (deliberately or not on the show's part) is that, when fighting Azula, Zuko is represented by the color red, but when compared to the Gaang, Zuko is constantly represented by the color blue. That's Azula's signature color, her name was literally chosen by the showrunners because of her blue flames - yet Zuko is the Blue Spirit, and is represented by the blue dragon when he and Aang meet Ran and Shaw.

And speaking of blue dragons, the "shoulder devil" in his fever dream has Azula's voice, while the "shoulder angel" has Iroh's voice... yet when he's trying to be one of the good guys, not only does Zuko explicitly ask himself "What would AZULA do?, he actually manages to be accurate when putting himself in her shoes, unlike when he tries to think/talk like Iroh, which always comes out as pure giberish.

So while the part of him that is more Azula-esque is very much treated as his "bad" side, it is still clearly a side that isn't going away, and sometimes it represents him better (and is far easier for him to understand/connect with) than the part of him that is more like Iroh - again, especially when Zuko's being compared to more "moral" people - and the writers are VERY aware of that pattern of Azula being THE person who knows how to get into Zuko's head like no one else can, mainly because of their familial relationship.

This quote about it by Bryan Konietzko in an interview was very interesting (and yes, I needed the wiki to let me know which half of "Bryke" he was 'cause I still can't tell them apart)

"When you study Eastern philosophies, the ego is a really tough enemy or antagonist. Again, we like to treat our characters very realistically. In real life, people have moments of great weakness, usually tied in with the ego. Your siblings can push your buttons. I have four siblings, a brother and three sisters, and no one can get you like your siblings. Azula knew ALL the right buttons to push to play at his weaknesses, parts of his ego which were susceptible to her. She did it well, and it was a moment where he just tasted this thing which he's wanted and focused on, obsessed over, for so long. I think it was very realistic."

Azula being Zuko's "ego" (or at least the person that can use it to their advantage the most due to her understanding of it) ties into her being his "bad" side, and makes for a nice parallel with her POV in the book Earth Kingdom Chronicles

I sent a message to Iroh’s tea shop — making it look as if the note had come from the Earth King — requesting that he and Zuko come to the palace as guests of the king, to personally serve him tea. There was no way Iroh could resist such an offer. The next day, I watched from the shadows as Iroh and Zuko set up tea in the palace tea room. I marveled at how soft and so pitifully domesticated they had both become. The once great general, who was called the Dragon of the West, and the Fire Lord’s firstborn, preparing tea like servants. If my father could see his son … Well, no matter. Soon they will be back in the Fire Nation, or else they will be destroyed.

I know he doesn’t believe Iroh and all his talk of turning to goodness. I know what Zuko wants deep in his heart. I have always known him better than anyone else. He can’t hide his true feelings and desires from me, no matter what he says, no matter how noble a face he puts on for others. I know what choice he will make, even if he doesn’t know.

It's interesting how Azula knew how to appeal to Iroh's ego as well - and that she's almost offended on their behalf, seeing them acting as servants, because, whatever her issues with them, they're still from the same bloodline as herself, and she very much would NOT accept being in such position, therefore they shouldn't be playing that role either (and it's clear she'll deal with them harshly if they fail to prove they were not, indeed, "domesticated").

But it's also obvious that she has a much better understanding of how to bring Zuko to her side - and that she doesn't care that much if Iroh follows along or just gets destroyed. Zuko was very much the true goal, and she actually lets us know why.

Poor, poor Zuko. I actually feel sorry for him. He still doesn’t understand, even at his moment of ultimate achievement. “Father doesn’t need to restore your honor, Zuko,” I explained. “Today you restored your own honor.” My brother looked away from me with a pained expression across his face. I hope he can eventually believe what I have told him: that by choosing his family, by choosing me over the Avatar, he has come back to his rightful place in the Fire Nation. And I welcome him by my side.

If Azula is Zuko's ego, the part of him that encourages his manipulative, selfish, cruel tendencies, Zuko is Azula's heart. That part of her that is still, in some way, innocent. Just a young girl that wants her brother to come home, so they can be a family again. The part of her that wants to be beside him, not three steps ahead of him in everything, taunting him about how he'll never catch up - because if he doesn't, she's alone.

Zuko's mistake was indulging his ego way too much, Azula's mistake was neglecting her heart - and both mistakes are a result of the same thing, namely Ozai and what he thought made someone strong or weak. Admiting fault and caring for others is weakness, and needs to be punished harshly. Burning everything down to be king of the ashes is strength.

And loyalty is something he demands from, and imposes on, others, not something HE is to ever give to anyone, hence him leaving Azula behind in the finale, to which she argues "You can't treat me like that, you can't treat me like Zuko."

She played by his rules, she neglected her heart so she would be worthy of Ozai's love - and then he took his love back anyway, just because he could. And then Zuko shows up and gets his happy ending after having asked Katara "How would you like to help me put Azula in her place?" He tamed his ego, and was rewarded for it.

Now, there is one big problem with that dynamic of "Zuko has to be loved, Azula has to be controled" which is when an incompetent writer crosses the line from making that literal instead of symbolic - which is how we end up with the Yang comics, in which Zuko cannot be described as anything but Azula's abuser, whom she's both loyal to and incredibly hateful towards.

He's the new Ozai, which is very ironic considering that was what Azula wanted him to be, and what the comics are telling us Zuko is fighting back against, even though he's constantly framed as the good guy for showing his sister the back of his hand (or an asylum to be neglected in, or the edge of a cliff to be thrown off of) when she's in the middle of a psychotic breakdown.

The show avoided that gross narrative with one simple solution: Ego's (Azula's) "Death" is not the triumph one would expect. She's humanized more than ever in the finale (and before in The Beach), the music is somber, and Zuko looks at her with pity by the end of the battle because this is a tragedy.

Because Azula is not just part of him, a symbolic element of his arc, she's her own person - and Ehasz making it clear that he planted the seeds for Zuko to help Azula redeem herself by showing her unconditional love frames his return as being not just her foe coming back to defeat her, but as her Heart sweeping in to rescue her.

Because, despite all the false dichotomy about how it's either him or her ("born lucky, lucky to be born", "I'm about to celebrate becoming an only child", "the showdown that was always meant to be") it simply is not a true victory for Zuko if the consequence is Azula's demise - and clearly the same applied to her, since she went out of her way to bring him back home.

...And to give credit where credit is due, even Gene Yang didn't fuck that up completely as, in Smoke and Shadow, when Azula is talking to Zuko (in a crypt belonging to a former Fire Lord's most trusted advisor no less) the man has Azula herself tell Zuko that sooner or later he'll realize they're one in the same.

(Even if I suspect that is just a result of him continuing trying to make Azula "Avatar's Joker" and since Zuko would be Batman, she would be obsessed with being his opposite and "completing" him, but hey, accidentally getting something right is still getting something right)

Oh, and they're both really pretty. That has nothing to do with anything, but I felt the need to mention it anyway.

#azula meta #zuko meta #fire siblings meta #fire siblings #atla comics #the comics suck

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umalvie · 11 months ago

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as i said while discussing iroh as a character, despite the comics being a mess, i feel confident saying that at the end of atla, zuko not only realizes that azula has been harmed too, but he rightfully blames ozai for that harm (although ozai is not solely responsible for traumatizing azula).

as big of a win as that is for the possibility of the fire hazard siblings healing their relationship (zuko absolutely has to take the first step there in my opinon; azula would not be willing to at this point, and their relationship has been unbalanced in terms of care historically), their relationship is still quite tragic even with this realization.

there is no way that zuko actually understands what ozai did to azula. he doesn't even know what ozai did to azula. yes, he knows that ozai abused azula, but zuko only understands and knows abuse as he endured it.

there's also almost no way that azula is going to tell zuko about it. not only would she not want to discuss something so vulnerable in a serious or honest manner (see the way she discusses ursa in the beach), but she's also just had a serious psychotic break. it's very possible that she's not fit to see zuko at all right now, let alone discuss her trauma with him even if she wanted to.

so zuko is left to fill in the blanks about the how of azula's trauma. given his pattern of relating other people's trauma to his even when it's not actually the same (i.e. how he relates katara's trauma about kya being killed during the fire nation's genocide against her culture to his own trauma about ursa's disappearance after committing high treason), he would come to understand and conceive of how ozai abused azula through his own experience with ozai's abuse. while zuko's abuse was clearly always an implicit threat dangled over azula's head ("you can't treat me like zuko!") and ozai absolutely used some of the same tools against her that he did zuko, zuko was ozai's scapegoat child while azula was his golden child. their abuse did not look the same, it did not function the same, and it did not impact them the same.

it's also unlikely that he has the perspective at this stage in his own healing process to apply any of his (false) perceptions of azula's trauma to how it would have shaped both their childhood and his perspective of azula. he probably doesn't even realize just how deeply his perspective of her is colored by ozai's abuse of them both.

furthermore, since he's accepted his recollection of their childhood (which is not his fault. he is a victim of abuse who did not have the means or opportunity, as a young child, to see beyond ozai's more obvious abuse of him, which he couldn't even admit, to notice ozai's more subtle abuse of azula), he likely can only conceive of azula's childhood trauma in two ways:

as the byproduct of his own trauma, existing not because of azula's own traumatic childhood experiences but because of her witnessing his, such as the agni kai

as the product of his exile, occurring because he was no longer physically there for ozai to abuse and thus had to find a new target in azula

the former seems less probable given his belief that azula enjoyed his pain when they were children, so he would likely think that she was abused not when they were younger but exclusively after his exile began.

this isn't even touching on how zuko's perception of ursa and iroh clouds his ability to see how they both harmed azula too. that muddles things a lot more since zuko struggles with black and white thinking.

i think azula and zuko could heal their relationship with time and mutual effort, but as long as she refuses to confide in her brother and as long as he assumes she should experience and respond to trauma the same way he has, they're doomed to remain static in relation to each other.

#atla #zuko #azula #fire hazard siblings

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kittygirl2210 · 4 months ago

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Stan Pines falls into the "second child" trap (small discussion brought to you by a second child)

Stan Pines discussion and why I think that he falls into the "second child" trap: courtesy of a second child. This is mostly based off of show details, I haven't brushed up on Lost Legends in a second. I believe Stan is the second twin and also second born child (if we say Shermie is younger than them, I'd put him as only a few years younger). A lot of adultification and pressure, which happens A LOT with first born children, is put on Ford by their parents, especially Filbrick, especially when it comes to get ting them out of the financial situation they're in and he wants Ford to "make it big" (evidence that I feel supports this same line of thinking is when Stan gets angry at Ford for " selfishly hoarding" his college money). Stan becomes the scapegoat second child, who is ALWAYS wrong no matter what, while Ford's the "golden child", who is infallible and never does anything wrong. Since we know very little about Shermie, I am at present putting him in the "baby of the family" category, who usually is doted upon and is sometimes seen as a "replacement" to the scapegoat second child. Shermie, however, is very much a weird outlier in this discussion.

Besides that, Stan seems to suffer from being the middle child, especially considering his actions as an adult. From what I've observed, he craves the validation and attention he did not receive as a kid and turns to reckless behaviour as a result (any attention is good attention). This, I feel, is also seen when Ford returns and refuses to thank him (which I DO think Ford should have thanked him, not to say he was wrong for that in particular), but also when the two family members he was now the closest to seemingly start to dote on Ford. He warns the kids to stay away from Ford because he's a "dangerous know-it-all" (although generally speaking, yes, Ford does wind people up in dangerous situations, there is a clear amount of jealousy expressed from Stan). He ends up running for mayor, because Dipper says Ford could be a good mayor. And when Ford half heartedly thanks him, then corrects his grammar because Ford ALWAYS has to be right, he snaps. Not to say that this isn't an indicator of any other kind of sibling dynamic, but as someone who has been in a sibling situation where children are disproportionately treated, and as the second child, I see a lot of how Stan reacts very similar to how I have felt.

#gravity falls #gravity falls stanley #stanley pines #stan pines #stanford pines #ford pines #gravity falls stanford

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that-one-kiddo-in-the-back · 5 months ago

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The Forgotten Gays of Western Animation... apparently.

youtube

Tw Lily says the F-slur despite her having a problem with Q-slur and talks about incest... again.

Now I'm not from Canada, nor was I old enough to have seen these shows that she's talking about, meaning I have no choice but to assume she's telling the truth about these shows.

To get this out of the way. Lily, throughout the whole video, was also making jabs at people who like lore based shows how they're the ones who are ruining shows because she thinks people on Twitter have any power over what a creator does on the show I mean if that was the case then JK Rowling would actually shut up about her transphobic thoughts. To put it simply, people on Twitter with their egos don't have much or any power over a show their not a part of, not even the people who are in charge of drawing the frames. now a creator can see multiple people asking about the lore of the world they worked so hard on. Lore might not be important to Lily, but anyone who's worked on making a completely new world wants to talk about and show the lore of the world. To get a bit personal, one of my siblings is writing a book, and there are days they will talk about the lore for hours because they're proud of it.

Now. Lily is very much wrong about moving the goal post for LGBTQ rep. Moving the goal post for LGBTQ characters means we are highering our expectations for what's good rep and what's not. To keep that post in the same place would be doing more damage than good.

Personally, I think (if we have to) the goal post should stick where the owl house is as that's one of the few shows that doesn't really have straight ships, hunter x willow and amity's parents are the only straight cannon relationships (and that's straight in quotes BTW) and I only think that because I haven't seen any of the nickelodeon shows with LGBTQ rep.

Something lily really needs to understand is that CEOs and the men in suits have a huge say in what goes into shows, so most shows aimed at children that want LGBTQ rep have to fight to have it Steven universe and the owl house all had to fight to get the rep they wanted. The reason you didn't see much of ruby and sapphire is because they are always fused together in perfect harmony. Every permafustion in SU were in a healthy relationship and only unfused was when they need to play the part their made for or fighting she also needs to remember that SU had the FIRST same-sex wedding in a kid show. The owl house was already set to be canceled, so who cares if they have a main gay couple it's not like they were gonna see them for long anyway. To me, it seems that if the character isn't kissing, holding hands, or cuddling, then that's not good enough that the LGBTQ rep has to be the most perfect relationship and never show what a real relationship can be like i.e. sometimes unhealthy, one-sided, and unrequited.

Lily then goes through a really long rant about how we shouldn’t hold She-ra to such a high platform because of the incest and how abusive the relationship was... completely forgetting that catra was the scapegoat while adora was the golden child. Both were in an abusive relationship with their perennial figures, with catra getting the brunt of it. Catra and adora are friends to enemies to lovers. Just because you wrote your incest story (scars, pokemadhouse) as some sort of coffee shop, AU, you think that you have any footing about complaining about catradora? Lily can't talk smack about adora and catra being technical sister when all of her fanfiction and even the books she reads aren't technical incest. It is incest. For all the mud slinging Lily does to She-ra, TLOK, and SU, you'd think the creators killed her family.

Also, I haven't heard of anyone saying that those slice of life relaxing shows that have the same rep as "not counting." In fact, people who like those types of shows have praised and really liked it, there's no one saying that shows with rep aren't valid just because there slow pace I've seen that's not valid because it's not good enough rep as in the LGBTQ character dies, doesn't get into a relationship, never get screen time, or how in Steven universe pearls love with rose is one sided and therefore pearl is an incel and "doesn’t count" funny enough all the complaints about rep not being good enough is from Lily herself. Steven universe doesn't count because you don't see enough, TLOK doesn't count because korra and asami didn't kiss as they walked into the spirit world, she-ra doesn't count because catradora is "fetishist towards abuse" and the list goes on.

Despite how much Lily praises Brace face for having a good gay character that wasn't the butt of the joke, he's still a stereotype, 6teen had one episode with a gay character and is never seen again, Lloyd in space had one Non binary character that in the end chose their gender and the main characters forcing gender norms on them. All of those in Lily's own words and past videos those shows aren't good enough.

No one has forgotten about the Canadian shows with LGBTQ characters their just not talked about, which is a shame. If I had seen these shows when I was struggling with my identity, it might have helped me deal with it better. As time goes on and millennials who grew up with the shows that said "its okay to be different and that just because you have no one now doesn't mean you will be alone forever." Begin to make their art. What was good then just isn't good now. Sure, those shows were ahead of their time, but now we are getting shows with better rep that don't need to use slurs or stereotypes.

#lily orchard #lily orchard critical #lily peet #lgbtq community #lgbt pride #the owl house #tw inc*st #lgbtq representation

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the-badger-mole · 10 months ago

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Okay, so I have been seeing many posts saying that Aang is the most well-written and complex character. And how Zutara and Zuko stans need to be humbled (I think what Bryke did was enough (and it was wrong and cruel)) . You have your canon, I don't see the need to humble us when you have Aang being the creator's best boy and having his "forever girl". If a difference of opinion is triggering you, then it's time to click off and look inward. Basically, they say how he breathes life into the show, and how nobody should be dissing him. I understand if your favorite character is Aang because I understand why you like him. To me, the reason we love our favorite characters is that they are flawed, and we get to see how flaws make them human (hence why I love Katara). Aang...... Aang has a lot of flaws and deserves to be analyzed like every other character. We see mass amounts of criticism (border lining hate) for other (female) characters such as Korra and Katara. However Aang....... is very flawed and he should be because that makes him a well-rounded character. But there are some things such as that unconsented kiss, being a bad father etc. That should have been widely discussed in the amount that people had to say about Katara in TSR. Putting him on a pedestal because he's the avatar and the main character, actually deems for us to be more critical since he is the centerpiece of the show.

You've come to the right place. If you want Aang salt, I've got Aang salt. My biggest gripe isn't so much that Aang is flawed. It's that his flaws are treated as virtues, or not as bad as they are, or not addressed at all (looking at Aang's blatant disrespect of the SWT culture...). The fact that Bryke had the absolute gall to come out of their own mouths and say that what Aang did to his children was not that bad and that Kya and Bumi were blowing it out of proportion is infuriating on its own. The fact that Aang's defenders have grown up in a time when going low or no contact with your parents is...I won't say common, but a well known thing that adult children do for their own mental health. That they know what the Golden Child/Scapegoat dynamic is by name. That within the show, people who borderline worship Aang as a deity don't know that he had two other children... and yet they still want to argue that Aang wasn't a bad parent???? It's wild to me that in this day and age, people young enough to have been in the target audience when the show aired go so hard to defend the blatantly problematic aspects of Aang, or argue them away completely if they can't defend them.

#atla #anti aang #anti kataang #this is just a sample of my anti aang rhetoric

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is-today-tomorrow-in-nz · 5 months ago

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OMG that Rule of Wolves ending was a total Deus Ex Machina! Leigh Bardugo really destroyed ALL the magical system's balance so her favorite could become a God, Avatar, mindreader, emotion reader, and dragon (ironic because LB was a Dany anti for GoT) with no consequences! But Alina, with ONE power just trying to take down the Fold = GREED = STRIPPED OF ALL POWERS. It makes no sense, and causes migraines to think about how LB destroyed all the worldbuilding for poorly thought out wattpad ending.

Thank you! I was beyond frustrated too. Her magic system is like a mirage in a desert- it exists one moment and then vanishes the next minute. It does not help that she plays favouritism with her own characters. Zoya, Nikolai and the crows are clearly her golden children. Aleksander is her scapegoat child. For the sake of her golden children, she bends the plot and swathes them in plot armour. However she refuses to offer any sort of redemption or even decent plotlines for her least favourite ones.

Just the other day, I was lamenting about this in another post. Let me share my fav deus ex machina other than the ones mentioned in the original post.

1)SoC: Began well- foreign country, jurda, everything at stake, heist etc etc. After the disaster of the trilogy, I was excited to read something different. However, the climax just made me want to fling the book to a corner. So Jarl Brum knows the partial truth from Matthias, knows why the crows were there. But somehow they got away scott free. Like yes, Nina made some soldiers fall asleep, but doesn't Fjerda have a navy? Isn't Djerholm not a harbour? Do they not know the ship name? Do they not know how long the jurda effects last in Nina? And yet all Brum did was stomp like a villain at the end of scooby doo saying, "If it weren't for those meddling kids!" and did nothing. They literally attacked one of the most powerful country's capital, blew up a part of their palace, and stole a tank! Somehow destroying a bridge was all it needed to stop an army! And at the final standoff, the soldiers were just put to sleep not killed. even if Kaz was just a day ahead, the fierce Fjerdan navy should have caught up to them. 🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️ But no... Nina attacked them with parem. Suddenly nothing can be done. It's like Fjerda is this formidable enemy when LB needs it to be and then become a bunch of helpless idiots when her favourite characters need to escape!

2)S&S: Ivan's death or literally any Grisha death on the Darkling side. They were very dangerous and battle experienced one moment but somehow were nothing compared to two sword weilding mercenaries. With convenient plot devices, the man who is literally the oldest and the most powerful Grisha in Ravka, was defeated and left at sea- no doubt hit by LB's idiot hammer. The man literally created THE FOLD for god's sake!!! And yet he and his army of well trained Grisha were defeated in a matter of minutes.

3)Nikolai: The whole Nikolai spiel was that he is the 'good' guy. He desperately wants the throne but instead of doing anything about it he was literally waiting for his big bro to get bored of it and throw it to him. That was the 'most clever fox's' brilliant strategy. Because that's what good boys do. Only evil, dark wizards create a coup.

And when the plot doesn't move forward, the easily-defeated-at-sea Darkling, is suddenly a raging powerful villain who conveniently kills Vasily and hands the good boy his throne.

I could go on and on. She butchered her own universe and is fixing them with cello tapes.

#LB and her hypocrisy #deus ex machina #dragon ex machina #anon asks #answered asks #the darkling #grishaverse #shadow and bone #alina starkov #anti stupidity #anti zoya nazyalensky #anti nikolai #anti nikolai duology #anti soc #grisha critical #anti leigh bardugo #pro darkling #pro aleksander morozova

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yourlowkeyidiot3 · 4 months ago

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I'm actually gonna write a fucking essay defending ford bcs I'm tired of this fandoms bs I'm actually gonna scream fuck it I'm doing it rn

(It might be because I relate to him and seeing people completely demontise him for things that aren't really his own fault makes me feel terrible but whatever dude)

" He shouldn't had gotten so mad at Stan for ruining his project"

Put yourself in his shoes for a bit. Imagine that, in your whole life, you've been bullied for something that while, yes is abnormal, but also is out of your control, and treated like an outcast and a freak for it, then one day you get the chance to go to your dream college and prove your worth, prove that you are more than just a freak. But you get rejected because turns out, your brother had ruined your project and kept it a secret until it was too late to fix it. Wouldn't you be mad as well? Because if my brother did that to me. I would also be mad, and hell. I might not even want to speak with him ever again in my life.

Yes it was an accident. But Ford didn't know that. Ford thought that Stan had purposely sabotage his only chance at proving himself just so they could stay together.

" He didn't do anything to prevent Stan from getting kicked out"

Do you seriously believe that standing up against an abusive partner is easy? It's not easy to stand up against an abuser for yourself. You think it's easy to do that for another person? You do realise that if he had tried to do that, he likely would also gotten kicked out as well right? Yes Stan didn't deserve that, and yes Stan was 17. But Ford was also 17!

I think I should give a friendly reminder that Filbrick didn't gave a fuck about Ford the same way he didn't gave a fuck about Stan. He only saw Ford as a way to success and make money because he was smart, the same way he saw Stan as just a failure. Ford was the golden child, and Stan was the scapegoat. Both are still abuse.

"He treated Fiddleford terribly"

You also need to consider that it was Bill's fault, and not really Ford's. Ford was a great friend before Bill started to insulating him from Fiddleford. If I remember correctly (god please don't be misremembering things that'd be embarrassing) He went ahead and brought Fiddleford a banjo (or banjo strings I can't remember) after he had arrived in Gravity Falls. He,(the 24/7 workaholic Ford Pines) threw a party for him, when he returned back to Gravity Falls after his argument with his wife. And genuinely he was happy to go on adventures with him. To me it seems like he only started being "a jerk" after Bill started to isolate him from others. And that's kinda the point. That's what Bill was trying to do, he isolated Ford from his best friend, his only friend. So he wouldn't have anyone to help him get away from Bill. He manipulated Ford to think that Fiddleford was against him. That he was untrustworthy and weak.That's what abusers do. You guys are blaming him for something Bill is responsible for.

"He didn't appreciated Fiddlefords gifts!"

Now that's just straight up wrong. He loved Frilliam, it was Bill who had pressured him into getting rid of him, he fucking loved those gloves, him dropping the snowball was an accident because Bill had startled him, (and knowing Bill probably did that purposely just to make him drop that snowball) and ..I feel like there's another thing Fiddleford had gifted Ford and I can't remember what it was oh my god my brain is so stupid why is my memory so bad--

"He was a jerk to Stan after coming out of the portal despite the fact that Stan spent 30 years trying to bring him back"

Have you also considered the reason he was mad at Stan is actually way more understandable than it seems? It's not just because Stan opened the portal when he was about to defeat Bill. It also because Stan had ignored all of his warnings that opening the portal could put entire world in danger. And Ford certainly doesn't consider himself someone worth enough to risk putting the entire world in danger just to save him. And in a way he's right, one person really isn't worth putting the entire world in potential danger. And not to mention: Stan stole his identity and committed a shit ton of crimes under his name! Yes I understand why Stan did it, but I'm pretty sure if we were in Ford's position we'd also be mad!

I mean he shouldn't had punched him , but his anger is understandable.

"He was gonna rob Dipper of Mabel and his future"

Okay I will agree with this one. And yes this is in fact one of his flaws. It would had been bad for Dipper, had he not refused. It was gonna rub him of his future, and it would had been bad for a 12-13 year old for many reasons. But it also wasn't done with malicious intentions. Keep in mind that he hasn't seen another human being in 30 years. He probably just didn't see/understood why it would be bad for Dipper. And as for Mabel? He thought she would be fine on her own. He cares for the kids, he loves them, he would never intentionally do anything that'd hurt them.

"Well he should had known better than to summon Bill"

Oh Christ....where do I begin with this one?

Did you the show you watched, magically didn't have the parts where it's literally shown that he was bullied his entire life for being a freak and that he wanted to show everyone that he wasn't just a freak? Did the show you watched and the books you read magically didn't had every moment where Bill had lied and manipulated him by overflattering him and using his insecurities against him? What you all so call "stroking his ego"? Bill's whole point is that he's terrible, and a master manipulator no one is safe from. Ford wasn't the only victim of Bill's manipulation. Why only blame him? Why are we blaming Bill's victims. And not Bill himself?

"Ford doesn't deserve any friends/his family he deserves no love'

And wow! Just like that you're blocked! Get the fuck out of my blog if you genuinely believe that. You disgust me. You're saying a victim of: bullying, manipulation, abuse and torture. Both physically and psychologically, deserves no love. Are you even hearing yourself? Especially when his character arc is about how he learned to be a better person. And about how he has a family and friends that don't blame nor hate him for his past mistakes and that's all he needed. Yea okay I am sure that he doesn't deserve love and support right.

God whatever. It's not like trying to reason with people who have no media literalicy and the mindsets of victim blamers is gonna get me anywhere

#gravity falls #ford pinto #stanford pines #oh boy #pls don't execute me #but I needed to get jis out

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sokkastyles · 1 year ago

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I don't know if it's just me but I never liked the idea of Uncle Iroh being pretty much the same before Lu Ten's death and his enlightenment journey through the spirit world. It feels like it cheapens the whole thing. What would the point be if Iroh was the same joyful person but he just happens to wear a t-shirt that says "imperialism and world conquest are only for the ꓘool Kids"? Also his relationship with Ozai reeks (atleast to me) of him not just being Azulon's favourite child but also the Fire Nation's favourite prince and war hero while Ozai was the scapegoat and pariah.

The point is that you can consider yourself a good person and still do evil. The point is that even someone who is otherwise kind and appreciative of other cultures can be swept up in the lure of fascism. That's all but textual, with Iroh stating that he believed he had a great destiny and that's why, despite him being a kind person, he was able to also believe that he had a right to conquer.

It's also historically accurate, as many conquering nations buy into the myth of benevolent imperialism and use it to justify themselves. Zuko repeats the same thing to Ozai, that he was taught that the Fire Nation's conquest was their way of "sharing their greatness with the world" something that is also repeated by Sozin to Roku. The idea that, in fact, as a "superior" nation, it is their duty to conquer.

I also think Iroh being Azulon's favorite is what allowed him to retain the recognizable parts of the character we see in the series while still being successful and respected as a conqueror. We know that even before his redemption, Iroh was regarded as "kooky." The specific use of this word implies that any behavior he exhibits that is outside of Fire Nation norms, like being more fond of drinking tea and playing games than winning battles, is just an odd quirk and can be forgiven because he also keeps winning those battles.

I think that's also why Ozai resented him so much, because Ozai was the scapegoat who could never do anything right, and here was Iroh who had so many traits that would normally be considered flaws in the Fire Nation, yet Azulon kept praising him. That also informs why Ozai became the hyper-militaristic, ruthless person he became, perhaps in an attempt to show his father that it was he who deserved to be the golden child, the star general, the crown prince.

I like this interpretation of Iroh and to me, it makes his redemption, happening too late, all the more poignant. Tragic, but also all the more important because it was overdue. Because Iroh did know better, but chose to maintain the status quo. And that affected not just his life (I've talked about how I think Iroh could have been a very different person if he was raised differently, and there's a part of him that probably would have loved to have a doll himself if that were allowed him) but his son's life. Iroh was able to get away with his own "kookiness," but maybe not so for Lu Ten. Maybe Iroh thought that if he had to stuff down that part of himself for the regime, then perhaps he enforced that in how he raised Lu Ten.

I think that also tracks with how Iroh's fondest memories of Lu Ten seem to be him as a young, soft child. Not the hardened military man he would have become. And it reflect on how he is with Zuko, too. How he works to teach Zuko that empathy and kindness are what really makes a man. And I like to imagine that in doing this, Iroh also learns that that part of himself was never something he should have had to hide or repress to begin with.

That also vibes with how hard Ozai tried to repress it in Zuko. I know the popular interpretation is that Ozai saw his own flaws in Zuko, and I don't disagree with that interpretation, but I think a part of him also saw and hated the things he resented in Iroh, the things Iroh got away with while he was so criticized by his father. Think about how Ozai speaks about and treats Iroh, and about how he usurps Iroh to prove that he is strong and Iroh is weak the first chance he gets.

The irony is that in the end, Ozai loses to Iroh yet again, when his own son chooses Iroh over him as a father. But that's what happens when you treat your kids like mirrors to reflect your own glory instead of people. The cyclical nature of the Fire Nation royal family's dysfunction is fascinating to me.

#iroh #ozai #zuko

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ourpickwickclub · 2 months ago

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“I’m still waiting for the proof he wasn’t in Oklahoma for Thanksgiving.” Obviously no one here can prove a negative, but the entire family (including G’s parents, Todd and his family, but not K) went to Z’s show at OR then. He also hasn’t been at Z’s other shows, A’s games, or on G’s social media at all. There’s also been changes in his social media use with respect to G and B that people here have commented on for a long time. I think it’s a very fair assumption at this point that K’s doing his own thing, living at GR’s house, and isn’t as involved with GB. People can speculate as to why but I agree with B that people should give him a lot more grace at this time. He’s trying to figure out how to be an adult and is still in high school. He has a known narcissist as a father and it took G twenty years to finally get away from him. The judgment for him is over the top. People are praising Z for following in B’s footsteps with country music and being blatantly passive aggressive about K. They’re aren’t your characters. It’s awesome that Z has found something he’s passionate about and can share it with B. K not having the same passion isn’t a flaw or something to be upset about. I get why people could be upset at the thought of GR influencing him but G made the choice to marry and have kids with the guy. Him having influence isn’t something that can be undone or something to blame on K.

I feel for any person who has to deal with GR. King is in an especially tough spot. He is the golden child to GR. Apollo may assume that role eventually, but for now, it is King. Zuma has always been the scapegoat child to GR. That almost makes it easier for Z. He gets shame and guilt from GR (most likely - I know we don’t know for sure but we have lots of clues).

Z has a stepdad who adores him, loves him unconditionally, and just wants the best for him. Obviously, that feels better than dealing with GR to Z. And I think It is easier for Z to see that GR is lying when he disparages B & G because he isn’t getting love bombed and manipulated in the same manner as K. GR probably doesn’t think he’s even worth the effort. If Zuma takes off, I’m sure GR will switch tactics and will try hard to win him over. He wants credit for any kid’s success.

As for King, i’m sure GR has spent a lot of time indoctrinating him into the false narratives that he lives by. I’m sure he’s making himself the fun parent and the supportive parent even if he supporting things he shouldn’t. And I bet GR looks for any small hole dig into and make massive about any differences between K and B & G. But I do believe King will see GR for his true self eventually. It just might take a very long time. It did for Gwen and Gwen and King are so similar.

- B

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worlds-oldest-teenager · 2 years ago

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Why I think Apollo is the golden child and not the scapegoat.

To me both Apollo and Athena are Zeus's golden children.

At first it makes sense that Apollo would be the scapegoat of the family cause of how disproportionate the punishment is when most of his family (Athena & Ares) Have done much worse. The way Apollo narrates as well makes him seem like he gets the blame for everything.

But if we really get into the head honcho himself's brain, the punishment is fitting for the crime Apollo's committed. In his mind Ares and Athena's crimes are excusable. Ares is violent, bloodthirsty and war bringing and he's given up on that child ages ago. (I'd argue that Ares is the real scapegoat of the family)

Athena is interesting. She's very clearly at fault for this war even more so than Apollo. So why doesn't she get punished at all?

I think the reason he comes down so hard on Apollo and not on Athena is cause of their motivations. Athena causing the schism over some statues was because of her righteous anger at the Romans for demoting her to a craft goddess. It was a decision she made millennia ago that any other god, at least in Zeus's opinion, would have also made. They literally stole her and made her nothing which is something no god takes lightly.

Apollo is a whole other story.

The reasons behind Apollo conspiring with Octavian are blurry but what we can acknowledge is that he at least promised to put him above Zeus which is complete high treason on Apollo's part for actually going along with it.

Hoping on Ares just invites disappointment. Athena's the golden child who's actions are perfectly acceptable in his twisted mind. But Apollo? Apollo should be the perfect son, and most of the time he is. He's got the most domains. He's won so many times that the very symbol of victory is one of his symbols.

Athena and Apollo's relationship, from the very little we've seen, also confirms this. They seem to have a deep mutual respect for each other and an understanding that comes from being in the exact same situation. Apollo loves her enough to give her a nickname. Athena is (I think) the only god to almost stand up to Zeus when he blamed Apollo for the whole war. To me their dynamic doesn't really read as a golden child/ scapegoat dynamic but more like mutual golden children with one absolutely having the potential to kill their father. They're kind of ride or die but they would not die for each other lmao.

So I think Athena and Apollo share the same dysfunctional family role. It's just that sometimes Apollo goes a little astray yenno? He's learnt to sand down his rough edges since he was a godling but at least twice before, he's absolutely lost it and forced his father's hand. But it was nothing a little correction couldn't handle. Now he's back to being Zeus's perfect son and continues being so for thousands of years.

That's why him conspiring to overthrow Zeus is such a collosal betrayal. This level of anger and hurt doesn't make sense to me if Apollo is the scapegoat. It makes much more sense if he's Zeus's beloved son who he thought loved him as much as he did.

Even his confrontation with Apollo in blood of Olympus was blamey, sure, but it was also a bitterly disappointed kind of angry. I really feel like he was using the war to justify punishing Apollo so harshly for an affront against himself. (Way to state the obvious).

Pjo Zeus just doesn't really seem to care about most of the problems anyone is facing until there's real potential that it could turn deadly against himself. He has a prophecy of his son overthrowing him to think about. Golden child or not, nay especially if it's his golden child, they cannot ever think doing such a thing is acceptable or that they are capable of it.

And in that way the punishment kind of fits, right? Try to put yourself above the king of the gods? Get supremely humbled with the most embarrassing experience of your life fighting your nightmare of a nemesis who nearly killed you as a child.

Zeus and Apollo reuniting on Olympus after his trials cements my point. What is Zeus's confirmation that all is right and his son is back in his rightful place? Is it 'I apologize' or 'I love you ' ? No. It's, "You have done me proud ". Because this is who Apollo is meant to be. An object of pride that Zeus doesn't love so much as appreciate when the light from his trophy child reflects on himself.

#toa analysis #trials of apollo #pjo apollo #pjo zeus

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gearbox-doll · 2 years ago

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Okay but I'd love to genuinely have a debate with someone, where everything is completely neutral and I don't have to worry about getting judged outside of the room, about why incest is bad.

Because like. Beyond the ick factor that most people feel, which wouldn't exist if it weren't so heavily stigmatized, why is it bad? I want a well thought-out, logical, neutral answer.

If it's because their kids would have mutations or whatever: first off, stikes me as kinda like eugenics. "They shouldn't have kids because their kids might be disabled", is what you're saying. Plus, the really bad stuff tends to crop up only after a few generations, and honestly I don't see that happening unless the family is specifically only marrying within itself? Like, I feel like in a world where incest is normalized, there would be equal chances of falling in love with a family member as there are falling in love with someone you aren't related to. Just because it's a possibility doesn't mean it's gonna overtake everything else. And that's not even bringing up y'know, gay couples or childless couples in general.

"It's wrong!": Why? Why is it wrong? Does the bible tell you that? (Genuinely asking, it's been a while since I've read the bible.) If it does, what about people who don't believe in the bible? Setting aside the idea of "everyone should believe in the bible", what is a non-religious reason someone should think incest is bad? Why does the bible say it's wrong? Are there explanations? Is it a case of "this was dangerous back then but now we have ways to deal with it"?

Abuse: no relationship style is inherently abusive, so I ask you this: why is incestuous abuse worse than non-incestuous abuse? Why is romantically abusing your child worse than romantically abusing someone the same age as your child? They should hold the same weight, no? And if they do, then why isn't it illegal for someone to date someone the same age as (or younger than) their child? If the person is an adult, don't they have a similar dynamic?

What about siblings? Siblings usually have a smaller age-gap right? What about twins or triplets? Why is incestuous abuse in this kind of case considered worse than domestic violence? Obviously it's not illegal to date an abuser that's similar in age to you. You can get them arrested for abuse, yes, but it's not illegal to date them, or for others to date them.

And yes, I know there are certain dynamics that are only found in families (golden child vs scapegoat, the power a parent has over a child, etc), but I think those are symptoms of other issues that should also be solved. A parent only has that much power over a child because children don't have equal rights. So give the kids more ability to stand up for themselves! And even so, in a relationship with that kind of age gap, I'd be willing to say that the older partner has that kind of power over the younger partner regardless of whether they're related or not, because often it's the older partner who has more money, a better space to live, is older so they "know better" etc which so easily allows them to control the younger partner. Just like in a parent/child relationship, the older party has to be aware of what kind of control they have, and make sure they aren't hurting the other, to be a good parent/partner.

As for golden child vs scapegoat, I think that kind of dynamic can just as easily be found outside of family structures, though for different reasons. A popular kid and someone who's bullied, for example. You get what I'm saying?

Like honestly if you can give a good, well thought out response to this I'll read it and consider it! I'll see if I agree with you or if I can find evidence to refute you! Let's make it a debate.

If you're just going to yell at me bc incest bad or whatever though, you're getting blocked.

#pro consang #consang #consanguinamory #radqueer #maybe it's just the autism idk

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adorawasright · 11 months ago

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tumblr just keeps gifting me these posts i'm so fed up with this hellsite. anyway, as always, spop fans keep missing the point.

i'd like to know your thoughts on this entire post but i'm more amused by the second paragraph. "ignore actual canon"? what actual canon are they talking about? the official character sheets that called adora and catra sisters? the ¾ths of the show that established an intense toxic sibling dynamic between these two? the fact that some of the cast themselves described adora's and catra's relationship as a "sisterly bond"? lmao.

LMAOOOO oh my fucking god.

OP rlly said "it's not ableism if the disabled person is shitty". What the actual fuck. That's like saying that purposefully misgendering a shitty person who happens to be trans/nb is okay. But we should all know in the year of 2024 that it's not.

The sisterly C//A paragraph is beyond me. For one, C//A stans do accept that Shadow Weaver raised Catra and Adora. Their entire conflict is rooted in the golden child x scapegoat dynamic, mostly present in sibling relationships. SW isn't just a shitty teacher or master, she's their MOTHER. Catra fights for SW's affection and the lack of it deeply affected her. Hell, stans will make "mommy issues" jokes with both Catra and Adora, and yet they will get so pissed when we say "so you admit they're sisters". And since stans don't have any valid arguments, they will just call us lesbophobes.

Hate to quote a Marvel meme but me every time I see a SPOP stan saying shit like this: "oh so we're using our made up SPOP now".

#asks #anti stans #ableism tw #incest mention tw

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spop-romanticizes-abuse · 1 year ago

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I'm not a catra stan-stan and definitely not an apologist but I really like her character. Her redemption arc was botched and it's a shame because she had a really interesting character, and she had perspective on abuse that I'd never seen portrayed before.

I live in a relatively abusive home with (gross generalisation here) me as a scapegoat and my brother as the golden child. I'm not proud of it but i've been abusive like catra (even if not to this extent because ??????? She did reallyfucked up things ?????????). And seeing that on screen, it was freeing in a way, like staring in a really dark mirror, and it felt good to have a character to relate too in this aspect.

And then came the redemption arc 🤡 honestly Catra's point of view is not badly written from what I remember. Like trying your best to be a better person and stop being abusive, but the other person doing something that sets you off and falling back on those patterns on instincts ? I've been there, and it's somewhat nice to have the scene with mealog to relate to for example. Having to take responsibility for your actions and your reactions, but every sorry feels awful and has to be torn out of you because you feel guilty as fuck and you know apologies aren't gonna change anything, and you know there will be other instances when your abusive tendencies will take over despite your best efforts? It was freeing to see those sorts of moments on screen.

But adora shouldn't have forgiven her. The others shouldn't have forgiven her. Maybe they could be forgiven, but not trusted. It doesn't make sense, it's rushed, it's stupid, I hate it. Also catra stops feeling guilty really fucking early for what she's done, like ma'am show a bit more remorse you tried to kill her ? Stop complaining when frosta punches you in the face, it's explainable and you deserve it. In her redemption, she lashed at Adora once or twice, got told it's okay I forgive you please don't do it anymore and suddenly she was "fixed". That's not how it works and it sucks, it hurts, that's not how it works. We never saw a broken catra post redemption, and it lacked.

So, yeah. I'm pissed about her redemption arc, and it's a shame because i really wanted to see it work.

(I didn't even mention catradora because that's not the point but the amatonormativity of it all? You're broken but your true love's kiss has fixed you so it's okay)

this is exactly how i feel too! i didn't start off hating catra because she was a really compelling villain and a scarily accurate version of an abuse victim who started adopting those abusive tendencies themselves. i didn't relate to her entirely but i could definitely relate to some aspects of her, especially her anger that sometimes got best of her.

but it feels like the creators forgot that she was supposed to be redeemed and kept making her do the most heinous things with no remorse, only to remember in s5 that she needs to be redeemed, and shoving a hasty redemption arc where she ultimately does not change at all.

i don't think even catra's perspective was that good because she only changed for adora. she didn't redeem herself because she knew what she was doing was wrong or because she regretted taking part in the war. she did it because she wanted adora back and also because she was of no use to horde prime.

and after getting saved by adora, catra honestly does not try much to actually correct her mistakes. she keeps lashing out at adora and abusing her, she's snarky with the other princesses and keeps falling back into her old habits. and no one ever calls her out for it. healing is not linear, sure, but there should have been someone who would keep catra in check and call her out when she starts acting shitty again.

but no, the only instance of her trying that we got was when she admitted that she was working on her anger issues, and then immediately proceeded to guilt trip adora by saying that adora was giving her a hard time.

catra really had a lot of potential but it's a shame the creators valued a rushed toxic romance more than actual character development and good storytelling.

#spop critical #spop #spop salt #spop criticism #spop discourse #she ra #anti catradora #anti catra #anti spop #anti c//a #antic//a #anticatra #anticatradora

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