#a divine understanding

[wardensantoineandevka]

it's kind of funny that we're back at the start, as it was known from the very beginning, as the story always was, the old lore: "the Divine Gate was built in response to the destruction and suffering of the Calamity as the Prime Deities realized was far too much and, as such, they needed to also remove themselves from Exandria to protect it from the ruin that the gods dwelling here brings"

[nellasbookplanet]

I know that after Downfall the perspective of 'the gods are a FAMILY' has permeated fandom on both sides of the kill-all-gods argument, but frankly that isn't all they are and acting as if it's suddenly their only motivation flattens both them as characters and the narrative they (and bells hells) are in.

The Wildmother and The Raven Queen didn't 'let' Lolth get away with nabbing Opal and killing Cyrus because she’s their sister. Come on man, we've already seen that the primes are plenty capable of opposing and fighting their siblings on the side of mortals (is the calamity a joke to you??). I'm not saying the primes aren’t capable of picking the lives of their betrayer siblings over mortals (downfall showed as much) but that's not what the situation with Opal and Lolth was about in the slightest.

They let Lolth 'get away with it' not because she’s family, but because this is the very rare instance of them not only having the same goal, but of them actively fighting for their lives. As far as we know that has only happened once before on Exandria, and that time they also entered a truce to defend themselves. The vast majority of the time, the primes picking their siblings over mortals won’t happen because mortals can’t actually threaten the gods (normally), making the 'they're family argument' a moot point. The primes won’t necessarily agree with Lolth's methods, but they won’t go throwing away both hers and their own champions in a meaningless struggle when they need all their strength to stop the fucking apocalypse.

[moldwood]

its a shame that scientology is the name of a rich person cult and not a really cool religion that thinks of scientific equations and laws of physics as a celestial language that allows us to understand the universe and the energies of wind and gravity and that the forces that act on the world around us are holy and curiosity to learn about them is holy and being a scholar learning to fight against them and work with them and discover new ones makes you a prophet. or whatever

[to-be-a-dreamer]

I just think that Kristen "I was my God's chosen one and I met him and he adored me but he wasn't what I needed and I didn't like the kind of divinity my church had turned him into so I left and created a pantheon dedicated to the lost and the confused and the hurt because no one should have to feel the way I did" Applebees and Ostentatia "My God barely knew my name and I met him and he was dismissive of me but he loved me and always provided what I needed and when I looked at him I only saw my father so I helped him because no one should be left to drown under their burden when all they need is a little help" Wallace should meet and be friends and maybe kiss on the mouth

[balleater]

you know what i am so glad that exu calamity gave us insight into vespin chloras's reasoning and everything because now i can confidently say that the guy who kicked off the point in exandria's history that killed 2/3 of the population and fundamentally changed the way the gods interact with the world had more understandable reasoning than ludinus da'leth does.

[duskerot]

i disappear inside myself / my friends don't know it can't be helped

[Pure You - Nothing But Thieves]

[anglerflsh]

we jest we laugh but doesn't the thought that we aren't even free of nobility as a ruling class make your blood boil. Yes yes by the modes of the present the current ruling classes are the capitalists the hegemonies the monopolies but we can't even say we exchanged one for the other. They're literally still here. It's so inconcievable to me. What the hell

[caeslxys]

Something I think is extremely interesting thematically when it comes to connecting what Downfall and the ideas it tackled to the overarching narrative of campaign three is that the things Downfall made a point to showcase of Aeor—Cassida, Hallis, the visual of an aeormaton proposing to her partner, the specific and intentional decision to shed light on a far from insignificant amount of the population being civilians or refugees—is that it plays in perfect parallel across from what is happening (and, really, has been happening) to the ruidusborn on Exandria in present.

Bear with me for a moment. Aeor is ultimately a city that was collectively punished for the decisions of its leadership. We could (and, judging by the amount of discourse around this particular topic already, probably will) argue about what the Gods’ motivation for all of this was—whether it be that they could not, in the end, bear to kill their siblings or that they were terrified at the prospect of mortality—for me it is a very healthy dose of both—but for this I am much more interested in the latter. They were scared. That, really, is the driving force behind both this arc and their role in c3 as a whole.

Why I point this out is: It is far more interesting to me, especially as we go back to Bells Hells this week, to dissect the Gods and their decisions not purely on sympathetic motivation alone but as beings in the highest seat of power in the highest social class in Exandria.

So, having established that the Gods (in relation to mortals) are more a higher social class than anything we could compare to our real life understanding of divinity and that Aeor was eviscerated largely because of their fear—what is the difference between those innocents in Aeor caught in the trappings of their autocratic government leadership and a divine war on the ground, and those of the ruidusborn being manipulated both by Ludinus and by the very thing that inspired such visceral fear in the Gods to start with. I would argue very little.

I think of Cassida, doing what she genuinely thought was right and good and would save people, her son, and the object of her worship—and how that did not matter enough to any of them to spare her because of the fear they held at the very concept of mortality. I think of Liliana and Imogen, one of which we know begged for the gods to help her or send her a sign for years on years, and how every single one of their largest struggles could have been avoided had the gods loved them, their supposed children, as much as they feared what they could be. I think of how the thing that did save Imogen, in the end, was a woman who herself existed in direct defiance of the gods will. I think of that young boy, sixteen years old, that Laudna exalted on Ruidus.

I think it’s completely fair to judge Aeor’s overall society as deeply corrupt—it was!—but its leadership and police force are not a reflection of every one of its citizens. Similarly, it is fair to judge the Ruby Vanguard as corrupt—it is!—but its multiple heads of leadership and even the god-eater further are not a reflection of every one of its members.

Notably, and what I think the Hells will latch onto, this did not matter to the Gods. It did not matter that Cassida was trying to help. She was still too much of a risk. Will it matter, what Imogen does? Will it matter, if that young boy is in the blast radius when they decide to take no further chances?

I’ve seen a lot of people say that the Hells will side with the gods and I don’t think I agree. Especially as Imogen has been scolded and villainized over and over for daring to try and save her mother—who herself has been seen by some as an irredeemable evil in spite of her drive being the exact same—her family—but when it’s the Gods it’s justified? When it’s the Gods, it’s sympathetic? Too sympathetic to criticize further than “they’re family”?

I obviously do not think the Gods should die or be eaten or what have you, and I certainly don’t agree with Ludinus (though I find him much more compelling than just a variation of hubris wizard), but when talking about the Gods in Aeor and in present it isn’t really at all about their motivation or their family. It can’t be. Too many people, including our active protagonists, lives have been effected for it to be as cut and dry as “they’re family”. These are your children. They are your family, too.

[oratoful]

hitaldi's basics in learning integral calculus.

[silusvesuius]

my ♀Neloth 🤗 she is supposed to look like one of those 'crazy and wise old lady' magicians from children's media. she grew her hair out to the point of it looking like bramble, she's not taking that good care of it, so it probably has morrowind wildlife festering in it (that she carried over to solstheim). she has the attached permanent herbs && old person smell on her that are covered by intense fragrance oils. she grows her hair out because it makes her look younger, even though it is grey. she's really into flex culture and primo jewelry to show status and make her stand out from the poors. she has all of the good things in life and the only thing wrong is the untreated NPD and pms-ing. regular neloth only deals with the former

[amadryas]

Breaking: Guy known as the Father of Gods and Men fathers gods and men

[coldshrugs]

countdown to dawntrail - endwalker

as fragmented, imperfect beings, yours is a never-ending quest: a quest to find your purpose, knowing your end is assured; to find the strength to continue, when all strength has left you; to find joy, even as darkness descends and... amidst deepest despair... light everlasting.

[lifenconcepts]

I SWEAR TO FUCKCKING ANJSJDNSJBXBTHE DIVINE. I HAVE EXPERIENCED SOME ASPECT OF BEING HUMAN AND YET CRYPTIC BEFORE IN THE SENSE OF THE ILLUSTRATED SONG “HARPY HARE”, WHERE THESE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE SO CLEARLY REPRESENTING A CONCEPT OR CREATURE THEY ARENT EXACTLY IN THE BODY OF AND YET ARE TOTALLY RHE SAID CREATURE.

LIKE, AHHCJCK IT WAS A FLICKWRING MEMMORY BUT I CAN TELL. I CAN TELL THAT SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO BE PEOPLE AND YET ARE ANIMALS OR BEINGS OF ANOTHER FORM AT HEART HOLD A MUCH DEEPER GALACTICAL DEFINITION TO EXISTENCE.. LIKEznxnxjnzjskkbxkxbd

therians were always meant to exist, and people bonding over such a concept existed far earlier than the 2000s. Far far far earlier. I can litterally remember but I can’t CANT CANT FUCKING DESCRIBE IT.

Tell me you get it, right?

[eating-figs-here]

People who view Wanderer like this fascinate me. Like how was he supposed to. Stay a villain. Completely ignoring how limiting him to being.. 'psychopathic' (not a big fan of using that word in this context) ignores the nuances of his character, how was he meant to continue being an antagonistic force??? We kinda. Crushed any hope that he had abt being able to ascend to godhood. We took the gnosis from him, then gave it to Dottore, who is part of the Fatui- the organization he BETRAYED. Dottore views Scaramouche's attempt to seize godhood as a fun little experiment, but now that he's seen that he failed, Dottore wouldn't be interested in trying again... We backed Scaramouche into a corner, man. He can't do ANYTHING. He can't go back to the Fatui and his literal only goal for the past 400ish years that he was so close to achieving was smashed in front of his face. He can't go back to that previous ambition either.

That's why I don't understand some people's pushback to him.. accepting Nahida's mercy?? And staying with her in Sumeru?? What else was he supposed to do??? And then it's like. Yeah, of course he's gonna internalize some better behavior because yEAH Nahida is a good influence. She stops him from isolating himself and pushes him into participating in things (like in the Darshan event) to allow things in this world to have meaning to him. So he stays. Because.. this undoubtedly makes him feel better. He's so much gentler to people as Wanderer, and that's because he's learning to once again be gentle with himself. Idk, I've always felt that this was a very natural progression...

[essektheylyss]

Here's the thing with Cassida: skill issue. Sorry babygirl but you've got the vibe of a bright but otherwise simplistic scientist who's an atheist purely because you cannot possibly conceive of portions of the universe beyond your ken. Just because a god knows no mercy that a mortal can comprehend doesn't mean that mercy means nothing. I am not the center of the universe and I do not presume that my existence is the end-all be-all of divine intent, nor that it should be. So yet again: skill issue.

[lunarreverb]

I am truly enjoying Divinity: Original Sin 2! I was however very surprised when I found out that it was not only possible to have late-game romance scenes with high-affinity companions that I had specifically never flirted with, but that they were basically all in actual romantic love with my player character based on affinity points alone I guess?! Haha whoops