#Zoe Lee Salt

[indigomarina]

Fanfic Idea

Ugh! I had this idea to write a fic about what-if Marinette was evil instead of Gabriel! But now with the whole Shadybug and Claw Noir special coming, I feel I have to wait, so things like 'Good Gabriel's good guy name' and what he calls who makes heroes (currently I'm calling them champion but I don't know anything) are more accurate to the show!

Plot

Essentially, it would've been in this universe, so no Shadybug. Instead, her name would've been Miss Fortune (I've been in this fandom since the beginning, I've always wanted that name to be canon). She takes the image of a shy sweet girl Marinette Dupain-Cheng but when things don't go her way, she becomes Miss Fortune.

Luckily, Paris has a hero in its corner, the amazing Chat Noir who battles the evil Miss Fortune. However, he also has an ally in the form of Papillon, a mysterious benefactor who helps him by sending him champions.

Characters

Adrien will still be our innocent sunshine child, but he has a whole lot more on his shoulders, trying to stop Miss Fortune from wrecking havoc and eventually becoming Guardian.

As Chat Noir, he and the champion have to work together to fight Miss Fortune. I have this system where Miss Fortune has a anti-charm (like Anti-bug) and if the two destroy it, the world healing begins.

Alya is still how she is in the show. Except she despises Miss Fortune. Her blog is towards Chat instead and she insults Miss Fortune anyway she can. She wants to rid the world of Miss Fortune, unaware she's her best friend.

Chloe would be a much better person (she still has some of her original flaws, so she would be not be like Zoe), liking Adrien like a brother and treating Sabrina like a real friend. Of course, Marinette doesn't see their relationship as platonic so she targets her. This version of Anti-Bug would've have Papillon give Chloe the power of the original Ladybug miraculous until Chat decides to give her the bee miraculous to use.

Lila would've been a person who always told the truth and while not all of her stories from canon were true, she does have some real amazing tales. This attracts Adrien to her (again platonically) much to Marinette's chagrin. One story is that Miss Fortune stole her bag once and Chat Noir got it back for her. Marinette thinks Lila is lying and Chat doesn't remember Lila specifically but he does remember giving someone back their bag.

So she briefly becomes Miss Fortune to embarrass her but this just inspires her to become Volpina and her and Chat briefly work together to take her down.

Gabriel is a much better father here! He's still busy and Emilie is still dead. But he's allowed Adrien to go to school and have a less stricter lifestyle. He still misses his wife but goes on a more healthier path instead and tries to move on while helping Chat Noir as Papillon.

Zoe would've been a person who acted nice when in reality, she's a massive witch. She still has feelings for Marinette but Marinette takes advantage of these feeling instead. She assist Miss Fortune also, not liking when things don't go her way. Half of Chloe becoming akumatized episodes would be Chloe either needing the bee miraculous or her helping Chat as a champion. Zoe would play dumb when confronted but some people start seeing the truth through her and Marinette's lies.

Shipping

So Marinette likes Adrien to disturbing degrees. Finding her strange since kindergarten, Adrien at best can be civil towards her. In the Animan episode of this AU, he would've weirded out by Nino's crush on her but would've still helped him, because he's a good friend and he feels he would be a good influence of her.

He and Miss Fortune jokingly flirt with each other sometimes, but they really hate each other with a fiery passion.

Adrien is bisexual in this fic. Who is Adrien's partner? Luka. Instead of liking Marinette, he takes a shining to Adrien instead. Adrien is smitten as both himself and Chat Noir. Luka would be a frequent character in season 1. Often times, Chloe and Juleka (and sometimes Nino) would try pairing them together frequently.

Marinette used to have a crush to Luka and he used to give her a chance but with all the lying and her accidently making it clear she likes Adrien, he also can now only be civil to her.

Chloe is also bisexual. Nathaniel initially has feelings for her instead of Marinette in 'Evilluastor'. Season 1 would plenty of cute moments. Not sure I should write whether they broke up but are on good terms or have them be in a poly relationship with Marc and Kagami.

Down the line, Chloe gains feelings for Kagami. Marinette in this AU, never lets go of her mean feelings for Kagami and instead Kagami enters the scavenger hunt in 'Ikati Gozen' with Chloe, causing the two to bond. Kagami never has feelings for Adrien (but I'll say it again, Marinette doesn't see it that way).

That all I have to write, bye!

[miraculousdeservesbetter2024]

It’s something that Thomas thinks we’re obligated to like Zoe and think that she’s SUPERIOR to Chloe just for the mere fact that “she’s sweet”, and anyone who doesn��t “just doesn’t get it”.

But…

What has Zoe REALLY done to be entitled to our love?

Let’s just take away Chloe from this for a sec, just a sec, seriously. What really IS IT about Zoe that’s any better than Chloe, other than being sweet?

Listen, I LOVE a good sweet, caring, nice and kind character! I really do (probably even my favourite kind), but even I KNOW that there’s more to making a great character other than making them “sweet”. There’s more positive personality traits in the world than just being nice, especially when “being nice” should be the bare minimum? As bland as the miraclass is, they DO have their own personalities. It might not be complex, but they DO have one. Hell, EVEN SABRINA AND LUKA have more personality than Zoe does.

Giving a bland character EVERYTHING on a silver patter, especially if they just arrived in a series, is NOT character development nor adding character depth. And this is not me trying to put Zoe in a bad light or anything! I just legitimately want to know what’s so special about her for her to deserve automatic praise??? If he wants us to like Zoe, then we at least deserve to have something more from her than her just “being nice” and being a Chloe replacement.

Her being Marinette 2.0. is not enough.

[theerurishipper]

do you think Zoe as a character is a necessary for the plot?

I lover her design but as far I can see her character doesn't seems to be necessary for the story, at all. I thought at first she'd be a challenge for Chloe to finally become better, especially after the play they did in Queen Banana. I thought with Chloe break of her friendship with Adrien that would be the time for her to slide in and try to be a sister/friend for her which will create a positive characrer development for Chloe.

But as the story progress I feel like she doesn't seems like to make impact on Chloe's life and it seems like she doesn't even interact with Chloe much, she instead hang out with Marinette and end up become another generic character added for the sake for increasing Marinette's harem and I don't know, a better bee holder who wouldn't talk back to Ladybug or demanding thing from her perhaps? Because this show has allergies toward character who challenge Marinette's morality.

I mean if the reason why they added Zoe is just for the sake for a new bee holder, I don't see a reason why they can't use Aurore or Mirriele since they already have unique model. Being from different class doesn't stop Marc to be a miraculous holder after all. If she's added for the sake of lesbian representation, we have JuleRose already. So why is she here?

Honestly? Zoe is one of the most useless characters in the show. She only really exists so that the writers can fit her into whatever role they need to progress the plot, because she doesn't have any established characterization. I do like her design, but that's really about all I can say. She's just such a non-entity to me.

Her first episode was actually quite interesting to me personally. A character who tries to hide her true self and lies in order to be accepted by her peers? Interesting stuff! I dig characters like that. Her being all nice and friendly with Marinette at first and then switching instantly to becoming mean and cruel? How intriguing! What a good way to establish a character! This could be the start of a really good character journey in which Zoe learns that she doesn't have to put on these roles to be accepted, culminating with her earning the Bee Miraculous as a fully established character!

But there was no character arc. There was no arc, no nothing she just... got over it thanks to one speech and got the Bee Miraculous in the next episode and then descended into obscurity. She could have been so much. Imagine how it could have been if we had gotten to explore her character. Like, maybe she could have caused the akuma on her first day instead of being the one to be akumatized. This could have set up everyone else disliking her while leaving Marinette wondering why she seems so different from before, and it could have started Zoe off on the path of realizing she didn't want to put on an act to please bad people and be accepted by them because she didn't want to hurt other people, actually.

Over the course of the season, maybe we could learn about what exactly happened in her old school through a proper backstory and not just an exposition dump. We could learn about why she is the way she through exploring her relationships with her father and her mother. We could have her grow through her interactions with others and her observing Marinette with her friends, and we could have watched her slowly realize that she maybe doesn't want to put on an act anymore and that she just wants to be accepted for herself. This way, we could actually get to see her act this way and understand why she is the way she is, and have her motivation be revealed in a natural and compelling manner, instead of just having it all be dumped onto us in her debut episode.

Then we could have the obligatory akuma, which lets Marinette know that there's more to Zoe after all. Maybe Marinette tries to reach out to Zoe after that. Maybe this leads to Zoe learning what real and true friendships are really like and leads to her finding people whom she can be herself with and who will accept her unconditionally. Maybe we could actually see her hanging out and bonding with everyone and actually watch the scenes with stuff like Rose and Juleka helping her dye her hair instead of it being relegated to an end-of-the-episode montage. They could have used those sneakers of hers more. Those were an interesting and compelling aspect of her character, considering the fact that she would write down the nice things people said about her on it. Maybe we could have a scene of her doing that with her new friends. And maybe after this, she gets the Bee Miraculous, and being able to help Ladybug like this inspires her to help others the way Marinette helped her, which makes her reach out to Chloe, thus letting her true self shine through completely, and this could also prompt a gradual change in Chloe.

I'm just throwing out some scenarios here and I don't claim that I'll do a better job of anything, but I really do think that the reason Zoe's character suffers is because of the abysmal pacing. They set up something interesting with her and then resolved it in one episode, which made her character dull and boring for any other time she's on screen. If they had stretched it out over the course of the season, she would have been way more interesting. As it is, she has nothing going for her.

From a writing perspective, Zoe has the most generic personality ever. She's nice and kind, just like every other character in the show. Any interesting facets to her character or any meaningful conflict she could have faced is fixed in her introductory episode and never seen again, and she herself only ever appears in the background of other episodes along with the rest of Marinette's classmates, contributing nothing of value. Her relationship with Chloe and her promise to always love her? Forgotten. Her conflict about not wanting to put on an act? Somehow, she just... got over it in one day and was always just her authentic self from then on. Like, name one character trait about Zoe that you can't say about anyone else. Even the rest of the class, obscure as they are, have more defined personalities and quirks than she does.

Zoe is literally just there, and the writers pity her sometimes, so they give her stuff to do. And you can't really say any of them don't make sense for her character, because she doesn't really have one beyond the base traits of nice and good. So you need a replacement Chat Noir? Zoe. Need representation? Zoe. There's no real reason for any of this to be her, it just happens to be her... because. Like you said, this could have been done by characters who were already here. We could have had our lesbian rep from Julerose, we could have had Nino for the Black Cat. There's nothing of value that Zoe as a character brings to any of these things, it just so happens to be her because she has nothing else going for her, and because her personality is so underdeveloped and practically non-existent that anything goes. And also Kagami would have been a better choice for both of these things no seriously this is Kagami erasure this is Kagami slander justice for Kagami.

And it really does suck, because Zoe could have been an interesting character. Her character premise was genuinely compelling. But then she just got reduced to another classmate who hangs around helping Marinette confess and to another one of Ladybug's team. All her scenes are just comparing her to Chloe and going "oh Chloe bad Zoe good." There is nothing Zoe has going on for herself. She's really just there to be a replacement for Queen Bee. And this would have been fine if the writing organically and naturally inserted her into the role by fleshing out her character and relationships with Marinette/everyone else. But she has virtually no development or character and most of her scenes are used to beat it down our skulls that Chloe is Evil and Zoe is Good, so root for Zoe, guyz!

They are so insistent on shoving the Zoe is the Good Chloe agenda down our throats that they have characters act OOC just for that. Somehow, being talked down to in front of the school doesn't make Marinette doubt Zoe in any way, shape or form. Instead, the blame is placed on Chloe for corrupting her. Andre suddenly decides to grow a spine and stop enabling his daughter, and once again Zoe is supported and praised and Chloe is condemned (I'm not saying it was wrong for Chloe to be told off, just that it coming from Andre of all people just makes it part of the problem because it's so OOC). They even had Plagg go out of his way to compliment Vesperia over Queen Bee like, five seconds after he's seen her for the first time, even though Plagg never compliments anyone so quickly or so much, not even Adrien. They had Plagg spend the whole of Deflagration kissing Zoe's feet and praising her constantly even though he would never do so while he offers to Cataclysm Chloe! He would not fucking say that.

Honestly, when it comes to others interacting with Zoe and the conversation actually being about her instead of about Marinette, it just results in more comparisons to Chloe and how Zoe is sooooooo much better than her. Even the episode focusing on Zoe and her feelings has a Chloe subplot that basically takes over the whole thing so that they can be compared.

And I am self-admittedly not a Chloe stan. I am not particularly fond of her. But I also don't like being told what to think, and I don't like how the narrative tries so hard to make us hate Chloe and like Zoe without developing either of them or letting us come to our own conclusions. Zoe isn't given anything of her own. Either she is being whatever the writers want her to be or she is being Chloe but Good or she is being Marinette's newest wingman. They could have explored so much about her. They could have fleshed out her struggles and her backstory. They could have done something with that set up in Queen Banana between Zoe and Chloe's relationship. They could have explored Zoe's new relationships (the Zoe/Lila parallels practically write themselves, as does the Adrien-Zoe friendship). They could have elaborated more on her dream of being an actress. But they didn't. They just kept comparing her to Chloe whenever anything had to do with her, and her character suffered for it.

Zoe could have been her own character in her own right, and she did not need to be bogged down by being forever labelled "Chloe's replacement," but the show didn't let her grow beyond that initial label and now it's pretty much stuck forever. Honestly, she deserved better.

Thank you for your ask!

[western-magical-girl-confessions]

“I almost never end up hating one character in a show I love, but Zoe Lee absolutely pisses me off. I hate saying it, but she is the biggest Mary-sue I’ve ever seen. She showed up out of nowhere to take Chloe’s miraculous, never does anything wrong, and is instantly loved by everyone in the cast. Plagg choosing *her* out of everyone to get the cat miraculous is insane! He knew her for maybe a week at that point, and the amount of affection he showed her was completely out of character. 

It doesn’t help that she takes advantage of Chloe being abused by their mother, how are we supposed to root for someone like that?! The fact that she has the first lgbt confirmation in the show infuriates me. Rose, Juleka, Marc, and Nate have been waiting in the background for literal years. The show ruined Chloe’s character and replaced her with someone who is worse in every way. I haven’t watched the finale yet, but from what I’ve heard it only gets worse.”

[noirshitsuji]

1, 3, 6 and 7 for Choose Violence ask game?

oh boy ok

i was gonna go down the funny route with this to like not offend ppl but honestly i have only been back for very little so can't really do that sdfhsdjkf

i'm gonna preface this by saying that this is very much my /impressions/ of fandom that are probably not up to date and stuff, but as this is a violence game etc etc. the only real harsh part is for 6 i'd say

(1) the character everyone gets wrong - I could pick a bunch here but Nino and Alya both as a tie I think? I'm not sure how common it is across the board rn but I feel like there are (or used to be) ways in which Alya gets reduced down to 'sassy/confident/reliable BFF' for Marinette and Nino's anxious tendencies get overlooked in favour of him being the chill/supportive BFF for Adrien

(3) screenshot or description of the worst take you've seen on tumblr - i mean. the adrien salters. you know the ones sdhfsjkf this post isn't long enough

(6) which ship fans are the most annoying? - u know. i was gonna say that anyone who fights over which side of the ls the best/gets repped the most/any kind of comparative ls discourse drives me up the wall.

but actually i will choose violence and say specifically that back in the day (i hope it is now in the past) a bunch of the ladrien shippers definitely needed to go out and touch some grass. i remember seeing ppl say things with reference to ladrien that can only be interpreted as 'salt' by someone who's never eaten anything seasoned but that have caused ppl to react with tirades of the 'woe is my ship' variety and start up discourse for nothing

(7) what character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them? - i can honestly say i hate no character but (and i know you will not like this answer coco) im not particularly attached to zoe and don't really see why ppl are. same w/ lila tbh; nothing against either of them otherwise (and i find interpretations on lila's lying tendencies interesting, even), but not my blorbos. im not against becoming attached (and i haven't watched s5 so there's space for that i assume) but yes

[jeankirsteind]

Behold, Saint Zoe “The Bastard Parasite” Lee Bourgeois.

Every time I remembered about her lines that’s makes me so cringe about her existence in this show. Many chars in this show a full of saint hypocrites double standards and they needs a hard slaps about the real life.

"The sister that nobody asked for"

What one finds on the internet. I think this image clearly demonstrates why zoe exists.

At least the writers weren't so explicit about the "message" that Zoe represented in the show.

She is a saint, everyone loves her, she is a permanent carrier of the bee miraculous and she has at least 2 parents (Lee and bourgeois) who truly love her.

(I feel like she was describing Marinette)

Zoe Lee really strikes me as a boring and unnecessary character.

[miraculouscriticismshub]

It's honestly awful what happened to her. I know she isn't a good person but nobody deserves to be disowned by their parents especially when their the reason why Chloe is like that .

Whats upsetting me more is the comments under this post .

[red-balloon12]

I will never stop thinking about how Zoe has a crush on Marinette but she’s also supposed to be Chloe’s replacement.

I don’t think this just meant as the bee holder. I think this meant for a lot of things.

Being Andre’s new daughter, being the star for that movie.

The only thing Zoe hasn’t completely replaced Chloe in is being Adrien’s childhood bf.

So….with all of this being said…

DOES THIS IMPLY THAT CHLOE ACTUALLY MIGHT HAVE HAD A CRUSH ON MARINETTE AND IF CHLOE GOT HER REDEMPTION, WE COULD HAVE SEEN A CONFESSION FROM HER??? I-

This means that Thomas knew about the popular headcanon that Chloe was sapphic and was secretly in love with Marinette/Ladybug. HE TOOK THAT ISH AWAY FROM CHLOE AND GAVE IT TO ZOE-

[thefcguy]

Zoe’s age would have made more sense if they said Chloe was one years older than the rest of the class.

They could say that Chloe was held back a year, because she still didn’t have Sabrina to do her homework, or Andre only put her on school a year later because he didn’t want to stress Chloe while Audrey was in New York or something.

Like, neither alternatives make sense, but, they are better paths than what they did in canon.

Like, they have different fathers and are the same age, when suddenly Chloe and Mendeleive’s class is retconned into being one year younger.

[thoughts-and-ideas-and-reblogs]

It would actually make more sense to just have him dead and that's why Zoe had to come live with Audrey. Maybe Zoe's dad had been an employee or designer under Audrey who ended up sleeping with her and this led to Zoe's conception. In the wake of this development, the two arranged for Audrey to financially support her while Mr. Lee and his parents raised her in secret to prevent a scandal that would destroy their careers. This would be Zoe's life until she turned 14, her father tragically passed away and her paternal grandparents were now too old to properly raise her so the government arranged for her to live with her French mother that she barely knew.

This would make for a far more interesting and tragic story for Zoe than the one in the series. Between dealing with the fact she was hidden away like as a dirty secret her whole life, she also has to deal with the death of her only loving parent and being shipped off to a country with an entirely different language, education system, and lifestyle than the one she knew.

When Andre exiled Chloé and Audrey, did Thomas Astruc even think this through? Not an expert on French divorce except Google, but apparently, if Audrey wanted to contest the divorce, she can and can absolutely drag it out (and if she really is that petty, she would). Also, what about child custody?

Zoé is also not a French citizen, and since her dad is still alive, Andre can't just keep her based on adoption. Divorce automatically means Audrey has a right to take her, regardless of what anyone says, and Andre can't lift a finger. Even if Audrey refuses to have her, she will still be sent back to New York to her dad.

Paternal rights are a thing, stepparent rights aren't, and Audrey and Chloé's "crimes" aren't enough justification to leave Zoe with Andre—OR DID THOMAS ASTRUC JUST CONVENIENTLY FORGET THAT

Well... abduction kinda sounds like adoption, doesn't it?

Seriously, where the hell is Zoe's father?

[anxresi]

They're absolutely right...

...It's the writers that deserve the lion's share of the backlash, for poor, innocent, boring-as-hell Zoe is merely a tool of the oppressor, aka Mr Astruc. What's being oppressed, you may well ask? Well, interesting storylines, proper continuity, two-dimensional personalities... I could go on. Everything that makes a show compulsive and rewarding viewing that Miraculous Ladybug conspicuously and utterly lacks in every department due to his increasingly destructive machinations, basically.

This pink-streaked plot device masquerading as a serious character can (along with another equally pointless individual called 'Soquerline' who was so unmemorable I almost forgot she was ever a thing) exists for one reason and one reason only: to diminish Chloe's relevance and role in the show to the sum of precisely nothing. Well after S5, job done I guess guys. Well done. Well done indeed. (Although apparently not... they're bringing Miss Bourgeois back for more torture in the London 'special'. Guess Tommy Boy just can't keep away from his favorite punching bag, can he?)

The irony is though, having such a super-sweet but dull-as-ditchwater Mary Sue to replace a well-established and multi-layered person such as Chloe actually sends out a seriously awful message. Why? Because if I was a bad kid and saw S1-3 Chloe, I'd think 'what a fascinating redemption arc, I can inspired by that and do better.' But after seeing S4-5 Chloe and what an arguable downgrade as a replacement the incredibly tedious Zoe is, I'd be more like 'well, obviously there's no point in trying to be good, because you'll probably turn into a psychopath overnight with no explanation in the middle of your genuine efforts to improve. And if what the show is presenting to me as the ideal for a teenage girl to be is the waste-of-blank-space that Zoe clearly is... then a life of deliquency sounds more tempting with every passing minute! Now, where did I put my spray can?'

The most shameless aspect to this whole argument though, is by those trying to paint the hapless Zoe as some kind of lesbian icon. Pardon? She got a plot-mandated crush on Marinette in one episode and somehow that makes her insipid and needless presence an asset for the gay community? Somehow a few people have got it into their heads if you 'dare' to make someone non-straight in cartoons these days you deserve a big pat on the back for that 'risk' alone. WRONG. They should also be fleshed-out, complex, necessary characters whose sexuality isn't just define them or deflect from deserved criticism as to what the hell they are doing there if they turn up in the middle of proceedings with no prior explanation. See: The Owl House for how it's done.

And that's all Zoe being gay is... an irrelevant trait Mr Astruc can point to cynically and say ' you're a bigot for disliking her whatever your reasons are, so I'm not listening to you' instead of engaging with the actual argument which is SHE IS NOT AND WAS NEVER NEEDED IN THE SHOW. Everything you required to make Chloe the brilliant character she could've been was RIGHT THERE in the script but you CHOSE to rub it all out and scrawl some hastily scribbled doodle with no personality other than being 'very nice' in her place. A tragedy. The worst case of self-vandalism I've ever seen. No wonder Jeremy Zag wants to start from scratch with his rebooted movies. More power to him, IMHO.

Needless to say, nearly all the above in the quoted post about her father loving her (we haven't met him yet, it's DEFINITELY not Andre Bourgeois, his name ends in 'Lee' for a start) her supposed growth (the only 'growth' she's had is when she turned into that giant golden Chloe after being akumatized) her alleged pansexuality (all in the desperate mind of the OP) her 'abusive' family (I think you'll find Chloe had it FAR WORSE over the course of the show in that regard, so why not idolise her?) is complete bunkum. and to be frank I couldn't compose a much delusional post if I tried. Sometimes I wonder: what planet are some people on to reach such implausible conclusions? I don't understand it, I'll never understand it and quite frankly I feel quite sorry for the arbiters of such risibly deluded takes.

Last but not least though, we have...

Now this I ALSO agree with 1000%. And I know just the place to 'flush' her... ;)

[miraculousdeservesbetter2024]

“OMG! CHLOE TREATS HER FATHER SO TERRIBLY!” 😣

And I understand that!

However, Andre’s a grown adult man, not a freaking baby nor a little boy who needs his father’s approval anymore.

He’s the one who brought her into the world, enabled Chloe, spoiled her rotten, GAVE HER he privileges (the same ones Thomas claims she had), and set a bad example for her. HE put himself into the situation, so HE’S the one that has to deal with it. If you ask me, he needs to grow a spine and do his job as a father instead of expecting everyone to pity him for the bad mistakes that HE made lol 😂

[theerurishipper]

Imagine what would be if Lila decided to "change schools" after being "outed" in "Ladybug". Then, Zoe is introduced in "Sole Crusher", and one of episodes in "late-S4" has reveal that Zoe is actually "Lila in disguise" that even Marinette and Adrien didn't see through

This would be a way better introduction for Zoe than have her come outta nowhere in Season 4 with barely a hint to her existence in the previous three seasons. At least she'd be relevant lmao.

Thank you for your ask!

[eddo-tensei]

The Power of Love according to Season 5 of Miraculous

Something disturbing dawned on me concerning...a lot of the development in Season 5 and it comes down to one thing: Love.

At first, Andre and Felix getting redeemed while Chloe gets sent off to the worst fate the show would allow didn't make a lot of sense. The only thing I could get from the writers was just that "Chloe bad, so everyone else good." It was stupid, but it wasn't insidious. At least, not that insidious at first. And then the finale with Gabriel happened and while it took me a while to process my frustrations with this, something finally clicked. Not only concerning that, but some of the other developments I've seen.

Felix getting another chance to the point of JOINING the heroes in the new universe seemed like nonsense until you look at what happened before that. He was someone who Astruc went out of his way to bury in the narrative and was exclusively causing trouble for everyone up to and including GENOCIDE...until he showed his love to Kagami. Suddenly, his actions are seen as righteous and his backstory of being abused by his father was justification for his actions. You see, he loved Kagami and he also apparently loved Adrien too because they were "the same."

Andre was basically just some corrupt politician who was also a pathetic snob. Then when Zoe came in, we suddenly get all of these humanizing bits about how Chloe totally mistreated him (because apparently, not having the guts to say no to your daughter is mistreatment) and when he divorced Audrey, he gets Zoe because he's someone he could be happy with. A true familial love unlike the one he had with Chloe.

Chloe, meanwhile, doesn't love anyone as far as the writers are concerned. Any genuine connection she might have in either the platonic, familial, or the romantic sense, whether it'd be to Adrien, Sabrina, Zoe or Ladybug, are shown to be either fake or so utterly shallow, it doesn't count as "love." With that, everything she does is absolutely reprehensible and doesn't deserve a shred of forgiveness even if it's clear she's a neglected child who needed help. BUT, because she "doesn't love anyone", she doesn't get redemption and deserves to be sent away with a parent who doesn't love her either. Same with Lila, she doesn't love anyone at all and in fact, just jumps from family to family purely to keep up her manipulations.

Finally, we have Gabriel, who had done nothing but sheltered, belittled, and outright ABUSED Adrien as well as commit a multitude of horrid crimes throughout the series. His actions constantly escalated in awfulness throughout the series, even showing that he doesn't care if he destroys the universe to get what he wants. Yet there was always this trait he possessed. His love for Emilie and that ended up coming to the forefront in the finale. Marinette, who had Gabriel dead to rights, decided at the last moment to try and appeal to his humanity because she knows he loved Emilie and in her mind, that love is enough grounds for her to offer him one chance to step up and help. Then when Gabriel opts to betray Marinette and starts the wish, he tells her at the last moment to try and help Adrien remember all of the times he "tried to be a good father," which is apparently an indicator that he actually LOVED Adrien too. THAT ended up being why Marinette decided to lie about Gabriel by saying he died fighting Monarch and went as far as to try and tell Adrien to remember him as a good man. All because she knew Gabriel "loved" him.

This tells me something distressing. Now, the concept of "Love Redeems" is something I'm not at all against and is in fact common in a lot of stories I like. However, it's what Miraculous does with this concept in Season 5 that angers me. The message of Miraculous ends up giving in its grand finale for the Agreste arc isn't that love can help people find the way to kindness. It's that anything you do can be justified as long as you do it for "love." It doesn't matter if you purposely get a cab driver in trouble, attempt to sabotage a date that your crush is in, put together a project that tries to commercialize air, betray someone to help a terrorist, commit genocide, cause untold amounts of damage to your town and beyond, or even destroy the universe! As long as you love someone, everything you do can be justified. Except when we decide that you don't love ANYONE, then we'll do everything in our power to show that all of your connections don't count as love so you can have the worst punishment we could possibly muster. Regardless of intent, that's how the writers ended up describing the Power of Love in Season Five of Miraculous and that's wretched to me.

[cardiac-agreste]

I suppose today was the straw that broke the camel's back, where I once again saw someone (recently!) say Zoë is just a "nice Chloe," and friends, I am befuddled. Bewildered and baffled, even! DYEL (Do You Even Ladybug), bro?

I am here today to tell you that not only is Zoë Lee her own, unique character related to Chloe only by blood (unless she's a sentibeing!), but Zoe Lee is also the third or fourth most worthy holder in the entire bouquet of Miraculous characters (Marinette, Adrien, and Alix are the other three).

First let's talk about whether Zoë is a Chlone (did the Chloe/clone pun work?).

What do we know about Chloe?

French

entitled

bully

handsy

quick to anger

wants to please a mother who abandoned her

father wants to please her

can't remember names

has a "friend" do homework for her

makes the best pun in the entire show

willing to be akumatized

probably wants to make out with Marinette Dupain-Cheng (okay fine, this isn't strictly canon)

when she gets a Miraculous, she brags about it and shares her identity publicly because for her it's all about the glory

racist

behavior all seems to arise out of the expectation that everyone exists to please her (because she's modeling herself after her mother) twinned by a need to be acknowledged by her mother

What do we know about Zoe?

American

shy

unperturbed by rejection

used to be fake

decided to be her authentic self even though she'd be rejected by her peers, which leads us to

LGBTAF

had no parents in her life because she was at boarding school

tender

brave

humble

definitely wants to make out with Marinette Dupain-Cheng

maybe a sentibeing (otherwise her mother got pregnant, like, a couple months after giving birth to Chloe, and where is her dad in all this?! did he died!)

does NOT think wealth and power are all that and a bag of potato chips (blows off that Diamond Ball thing, refers to that type of person as a "zombie")

has held two different Miraculous and both of them she took because fate required it

artsy!!!!

I can kind of understand right after her debut feeling like this: she is in Paris (like Chloe), shows up with blonde hair (like Chloe) and the body of a girl (like Chloe) and uses a girl's voice (like Chloe) to speak to Marinette (like Chloe) nicely (not so much like Chloe), and we see her trying to gain family acceptance in Soul Crusher.

But then she rapidly diverges from Chloeness.

Finally, we get to season five, which finished airing over a year ago (thank goodness we get S6 soon!), and Plagg ghosts Adrien to find a new holder.

Let's consider Adrien getting Plagg the first time: he's sad, lonely, stuck in his room all day, has no friends, and has no idea that he's going to suffer by becoming a superhero. And he becomes Chat Noir, gets to chill with this beautiful lady he crushes on, and his enemy is an inexperienced villain who fumblefucks through his powers being an idiot of himself as the two of them and Ladybug gradually all gain skill and experience wielding their powers.

So you're Zoe Lee, you see all kinds of crazy shit in America, and these French heroes come to your city (New York) and fight a dude who pops off with a dozen NUKES all over the place ready to do some damage, and WHEW they save the day with the United Heroez of America.

You move to France, and your first day there, a gross old man slithers into your brain, emotionally manipulating you until you give in and allow him to use your body to hurt people and destroy property. And then, when you're finally rescued, you're publicly humiliated as the "villain" despite not remembering anything you did. And then you probably watch videos of yourself doing horrible things later, in your room by yourself, maybe as your half-sister yells at you for being a monster or something.

The person who manipulated you is a villain in your new city (did I mention you're living in the house of someone who isn't even your real dad?? without your mother present??), regularly causes billions of dollars in damage and mass casualties, and currently has control over almost all the Miraculous. He's SCARY, VICIOUS, and his power level is INSANE. He's got the heroes on the ropes. He's had a long time to get stronger. There are news articles about how he's a very. bad. dude.

And then the heroes DISAPPEAR. Paris is FUCKED.

And a tiny little cat shows up and is like "hey, kid, you are needed."

Any normal person would be like NO. NO NO NO.

But Zoë?

"Claws out."

Who cares that she's probably gonna die? Who cares that she's probably going to fight alone? Who cares that her enemy is terrifying and has already very specifically victimized you once before?

NOT ZOË LEE.

And that is why Zoë is not a "nice version of Chloe" and also is one of the most worthy holders in the universe. Alix is the only one who gives her a run for her money, and IME that's an essay for another day (but tl;dr being the Rabbit Holder would mentally break any normal person).

🚀

UPDATE: I welcome reasoned disagreement. But if you're going to insult me, I will delete your comment and block you.

[nerdy-chocomallow]

This is me getting my angry out of my chest, I despise when people use Zoé just to developed Chloé and have her be a glorified babysitter and therapist to her own sister. Basically using as sacrifice just so Chloé can get redeem.

I hate it, it makes me go against Chloé’s redemption arc a lot than it was before. It also goes against Zoé’s character development to me, she shouldn’t be use to build someone else and be there their support and I’m not saying that the show doesn’t do that, it definitely does. It doesn’t mean you people who have done this, do the same thing.

Because Chloé wants to better herself, she shouldn’t rely on others as that, she should go to a therapist as very least. It’s why I like some of moments where Zoé stands her ground against Chloé, it makes me a lot more happy, knowing she doesn’t want to take crap from her own sister because she should be. Why she should be loyal to the sister that wanted to change her and didn’t care! And Chloé had done this shit anyway, thinking she really happy, are we forgetting origins when she almost did the same thing with Adrien?! She shouldn’t have to deal and help others deal with their problems and make them feel better when she had that same problem back at home. Playing a role to make others happy and make them feel important while she gets nothing out of it; and I hate how the fanon and show doesn’t this to her.

Now, enjoy this picture of her if you are like me and are Zoé fan!