#This exists because tommy used to be racist

[joeloverture]

tlou & enjoyment vs. conscious enjoyment

im currently in the deepest throes of finals season and looking down having to travel for two back to back residencies so ive been highkey spaced out on here, popping in and out at my own leisure. but im showing up to add to the conversation. reminder that ive studied all of these concepts at the collegiate level for years, have experience running workshops for poc, etc. i know what im saying. blah blah blah im vetty im mexican chilean / nahua & mayan

i do not fault anyone for enjoying tlou. in fact, i encourage them to. it’s one of the most popular medias of the time with a hit hbo show and it’s one of the most successful playstation games of all time. tlou is simply something that is meant to be enjoyed. this is good! finding comfort in these times is important for all of us. but simultaneously, we need to be aware of where this comfort comes from; i.e. is it at the expense of someone else’s discomfort? consuming any storytelling is an act that cannot be apolitical. everything about writing, art, and television is political from a story’s inception to its delivery.

these critiques about tlou are not new! they’ve existed for years. many call into question in the first game the deaths of poc as an engine that powers the white characters’ stories. this is a problem that persists into the second game and the second season. tlou is also inextricable from the zionist mindset of its creator neil druckmann. once you look for these things as an audience member in a critical way, they begin to pop up everywhere.

for example, martyr’s gate. in abbys part you come across a setup where seraphites leave written prayers to their martyred leader. if the player interacts with the environment in a specific way, abby picks up one of the letters that asks for the fighting to stop. she says, offhandedly, “easy. stay on your fucking island.” this is colonizer mindset turned to the highest degree. when layered with the themes of martyring and idealism that neil is clearly critiquing, this is just one example of horrific worldviews that have wedged their way into the storyline. she also announces to her friends that killing children seraphites is acceptable and necessary if they attack first. remind you of anything?

i’ve made a separate post about show joels death, which can be found in my pinned. poc trauma is especially prevalent with abbys character: her entire storyline centers white saviorism. her past sins can be forgiven because she saves two asian kids from their evil religion, whose trauma directly propels the plot. (yaras amputation, lev killing his mom, yaras death). the game never actually considers abby’s past actions. she changes in the course of about two days and we are expected to see this as a well rounded character arc as if she wasn’t the right hand woman of someone who yall watched brutally torture someone on live television last sunday. ive also heard a sound bite from the show: “i don’t care if they’re women kids or fucking babies look what they did! kill them all!” manny — a full blown stereotype of mexican culture — has his eye shot out by tommy. tommy later loses his eye to show consequences. neils pivotal ideology of “an eye for an eye”

and that’s just in abbys part. in ellies part, she tortures and then kills nora. jesse dies at abbys hand.

if i can write 3 entire paragraphs without even scratching the surface of the games intrinsic, racist properties, there’s a problem.

the issue is not engaging with this media. the issue lies in how it is consumed, and how it is addressed in internet spaces. this is not a dogshit take. the torture porn and racism is EMBEDDED into the plot. there is not a tlou without it. this is undeniable. attempting to deny it is to make attempts to save your own skin in lieu of poc begging you to experience this content with some level of consciousness about its origins.

it hurts to see the people we poc share this platform with brushing over our trauma and using it as fodder for their fanfiction and entertainment. it just does. especially when the vast majority of all of us have experienced this trauma firsthand or generationally to a degree that most white people have been lucky enough to be spared from.

denying that tlou is racist is simply a racist take. interacting with tlou is not something that is inherently racist in and of itself. this seems to be where the mix up has occurred. the mix up has also occurred on our end; for thinking that our experiences would be empathized with. or that certain members of the fandom would move forward with a larger degree of awareness. we know better than to think we’ll be taken seriously these days.

ive seen arguments like: the actors knew what they were getting themselves into! other poc disagree with you!

1- acting is an industry. many of the tlou hiring stories happened quickly without the specifics of the storyline being shared. pedro had the first 3 scripts and confirmation that he’d die; likely not HOW he would die.

2- poc are not a monolith. we can also be racist. we can also partake in racist ideology. we can also have differing views on this. i think most of us agree, though, that neil is a piece of shit whose perspective inundates the game.

that’s my piece. im missing some stuff but i typed this on my phone between finals. so 🐛

poc you will always be safe on my blog and with me. we can enjoy parts of tlou while disgracing other parts of it.

[nqueso-lies]

@ frustrated multishipper anon

A good amount of BuckTommy fans only interact with or see "Buddies" (BoBs) when they're interacting with BuckTommy blogs and being assholes. Most BuckTommy blogs I know don't even check the tag itself frequently because BoBs post there almost everyday bashing the ship. There are anons who crash open askboxes again almost everyday telling BTs they're delusional for enjoying a canon ship and promoting the Buddie canon [whatever episode] thing.

You're focused on your frustration at people being angry at a set of shippers, but do you examine why people are angry at them and describing them the way they do? You want to make it about being judgmental as if context isn't important. Because anger is pretty reasonable to feel when the loudest parts of a fandom (and the main ones that interact) keep a fandom/ship war going like it's their jobs.

If more friendly multishippers or Buddies could act normally and friendly maybe we could co-exist but it seems the burden is always on BuckTommy fandom to be the "bigger people" and shut up about the other ship who can't keep the other shippers out of their mouths. Constantly calling us racist for liking Tommy, why the hell would we feel warmly about them?

Ope.

[unsaidace]

Sorry to drop into your ask box but I have been blown away by the reaction to the last couple of episodes. I’m fairly new but I am gobsmacked alleged actual mental health professionals are coming out to defend Eddie’s actions in the kitchen. That is straight up terrifying to think about.

Also seeing tiktok edits about how good it was and how they just need to hug each other, and how the shoulder grasp was their thing to help Eddie connect them emotionally. I have been in some toxic fandoms and I feel like I am being gaslit. That scene should have buried the nonexistent romantic relationship there and then. I find myself frustrated by the ‘oh Buck is sad, throw a kid at him’ aspect as well because it invalidates his whole feelings.

I have gone on a blocking spree with how bad the takes have been, like saying it’s racist to criticise Eddie or even ship BuckTommy. Having seen the hatred to Lou and Tommy but comparing it to the scenes, i am baffled by the levels of hate and vitriol. Lou is doing his job and they’re pleased to be harassing him and other actors. I like Buck Tommy, I like their scenes and I hope they bring them back! I loved how Tommy treats him like an adult and allows his feelings to be voiced.

Also I wish Ravi would replace Eddie full time because he has so much to add and it feels like certain people only like Buck when they can make him Eddie’s punching bag or doormat.

Welcome to the world of the 9-1-1 fanbase. I’m sorry that you’re seeing it like this as a newcomer, because before Buddie basically took over the fandom? It was actually quite a chill place.

The first thing you need to know about the Buddies is a simple fact; they truly believe that this is The Eddie Diaz Show™️. They think he’s the “main of all mains�� or something, that the show wouldn’t exist, wouldn’t be as successful as it is, without him. Of course, that argument gets destroyed the second you look back to season one and realise that the show was successful enough to get renewed for a second season without him, but you’ll never convince them of that. You’re correct in saying that this scene should’ve buried any idea of romance between the two of them but they’ll twist anything into ship material. They did it with couches and lasagne, so naturally they’ll do it with emotional abuse too.

The second thing to note; they don’t actually like Buck. Not one of them truly gives a fuck about him. They treat him like a child, or a naughty puppy who’s just pissed on the carpet. You’ll get used to that, unfortunately. It never gets less annoying, you just learn to tune it out for the sake of your sanity. You’ll also see several bad faith takes about Buck’s “selfishness”, and about how Eddie “simply tells Buck what he needs to hear”. The “filtered tags” option in your settings and the block button are going to become your best friends; use them liberally. The rest of us do, you might as well join the ranks.

As for Ravi replacing Eddie, I think a lot of us are on the Ravi Main Train™️ at this point. We’re all tired of Eddie being stuck in the same cycle as he was in season 3, with no real growth anywhere to be found. Adding Ravi to the team permanently would be a great way to refresh the show, while keeping us familiar with the characters. We know Ravi, we like him, there’s no need to work in a new face with a new backstory and hope they connect with the audience. Ravi has all of that already. He’s the perfect “new” addition to the main cast, the perfect way to give the show that “fresh” feeling without making us adjust to yet another new character that might not land in the way Tim hoped (see Lena Bosko and Lucy Donato for examples).

[spxdyr]

Ok so first of I wanted to preface this by saying I 100% ship Buddie and am a bit disappointed by BT’s existence (if they wanted Tommy to be a compelling love interest they’d have to have more time with him to characterise him earlier and make me fully ship him with Buck etc, and they dropped the ball with that here), but I was wondering if you’d ever considered you may be a bit harsh to BT shippers? I just read an ask in which you replied saying something along the lines of “there’s no evidence any of the crew aside from buck like Tommy” and I just felt that was a little “ehhhh” since they did have (I think in Chimney or Hen begins) a scene where T was leaving the 118 and their relationship with him had evolved positively to the point where they felt comfortable pranking him in a way I read as amicable, and the fact he and Eddie were hanging out enough that Chris got to speak extensively to T about Buck?

Sorry if this is like overstepping but I felt a little bit obliged to counter your take based on what I’d experienced differently

I will say that I should've said that Eddie and Buck have no knowledge, as far as we know, of Tommy's past.

But also, and if this comes across rude to you I'm sorry that's not my intention, truthfully I don't care if I'm coming across harsh to BT's. Ultimately, my opinion of tommy will never be neutral because he was racist for 60% of his screen time. And spent 2% defending his actions on "i guess gerrard made me a bad person."

In terms of canon, I'll say again what I said to anon. I, like I imagine Chim and Hen, don't give energy to people who have been racist to me in a workplace or non-social setting. If we've separated "amicably" what that means for me, and again I'm assuming Hen and Chim, is that I don't care about you one way or another but if we have a mutual friend, I will tolerate you because I love them.

i strongly believe that when buck learns who tommy used to be he will go to hen and chim and they will admit they only tolerated him for his sake.

but ultimately, i don't believe in being kind to people who are willing to excuse racism because "he was a closeted gay man" or any reason to be honest.

[stvrpst]

Bummy shippers are some of the weakest links I've ever seen in a fandom😭 Imagine being a die-hard buddie shipper for years just to give up when the writers throw buck at yet another romance with little chemistry or buildup simply because Tommy is a guy.

I'm glad Buck can explore this side of himself, but that doesn't mean I'm going to settle with a lazy and inadequate excuse for LGBT representation. Have your opinions, but the writers could have handled Buck's storyline far better, and it's clear they're being lazy about it because Oliver has been so fucking silent about the entire relationship as a whole.

There is a difference between shipping gay couples and being borderline fetishistic. You're nasty if you're shipping only to see two men kiss and fuck, rather than for the important reasons, to see a beautiful queer story with chemistry, depth, and buildup between the two

Which I'm sure half of bummy shippers are guilty of. Because bummy literally has the same build and chemistry as all of Buck's previous relationships, if not less. The same relationships you were complaining about weeks ago.

I thought y’all said we needed to stop putting buck in relationships that lacked chemistry and build up?💀

Why is it okay now? Cuz Tommy’s a man? I hope y’all are aware of how stupid y’all’s asses sound.

Cuz to claim Tommy is complex, or even has an ounce of characterization is absolutely insane, and hypocritical. His only attributes is him being a racist misogynistic asshole, and a borderline boring ass character.

And news flash! just because people want to see a realistic, queer, slow burn romance that isn’t rushed or built off of envy and jealousy, doesn’t make them homophobic. It has nothing to do with homophobia, it’s about chemistry and depth, and the relationship as whole. I could give less of a fuck if tommy is a man.

People can have their opinions and it doesn’t mean they’re homophobic just because they clocked the fact that the rep media is pushing is repetitive and shitty. It just means people are not wiling to settle for just two guys kissing. We want more then that.

"Why can't we just enjoy this!" Because it’s people like you who make media feel comfortable enough to hurl poor excuses of LGBTQ representation at us.

you're a bunch of weak fucking links who fold at just a fraction of poorly written stories about a man kissing another man, rather than advocating for authentic, original, compelling, and well-written representation for us.

And then you have the nerve to whine about our poor media reputation. You are the reason why. They see you folding at a man kissing a man and decide to just throw it in our faces without putting in the effort, like "Here!" "Now shut up!"

Because you don’t pressure them enough to actually look into and understand genuine queer representation. Y’all drool and foam from the mouth at just the thought of two men kissing or fucking, and that’s what they give us.

It's obvious that the "rep" we got was shit, because if it was good, why is half the rep y’all think we got, just made up headcanons? Why do you have to pay $200 for someone to discuss it and provide headcanons? Why is Tommy's entire non-existent personality based on headcanons that are neither canon nor depicted in the show?

Why is the relationship in general on Twitter and here primarily made up of headcanons? I promise you, if the representation was really that good, you wouldn't have to pay $200. If Tommy had true complexity and characterization, you wouldn't need to create all of these headcanons because it would’ve been displayed on the show instead.

If the representation was that good, Lou wouldn’t have deluded y’all with all these headcanons. He wouldn’t need to, cuz it would’ve been shown on the show. But alas, we got jack fucking shit, and now y’all have to rely on headcanons to give this relationship some substance and legs to stand on.

Like this isn’t about ships, and whose better or whatever the fuck. This is about getting good representation in media. This is about getting beautiful, complex, queer stories, which Buddie already had the foundation for.

And instead of the writers taking the perfect opportunity to tell a beautiful story that could’ve been told between the two, the writers decided to throw in a random ass white man with zero characteristics or chemistry with Buck. That’s why people are upset.

“They’re just mad because it’s not their ship!” and they have every right to be mad that it’s not their ship, because unlike yours, their ship had all the key components and foundational build that the writers could’ve used to bring a beautiful queer story to life. But alas, they took the easy way out.

It’s a reasonable response.

I don't understand criticizing and mocking people because they're outraged that the writers fumbled an opportunity to show accurate representation in media. I do not understand how the responses to the writer's poorly written storyline is homophobic.

I really don’t.

Also, some of us are tired of seeing the same boring ass gay white couples over and over. That shit is repetitive. Some of us, who are POC or even just white, want to witness a beautiful interracial queer couple. It's not all about your queer, white ass. The world already revolves around you. Excuse us for wanting to see some interracial queer representation.

Pushing for greater queer POC representation is not homophobic.

Do you know what is homophobic and racist tho? Being actively opposed to having an openly queer Mexican lead character because the idea threatens your bland ass, white ass ship.

So you'd rather keep them straight, knowing that there are Mexican and Latino queer fans that identify with Eddie and see him as a comfort character. But let's rescind the representation they could get so that another white queer couple in the media can capture their attention.

[wenellyb]

Eddie Diaz is a white Latino. Did people learn nothing from the Pedro Pascal discourse? And does the fandom *not* remember that episode where the funeral protestor refuses to be tended by Hen and Chim, so he asks Eddie to give him care— fully seeing he’s white— until Eddie says his last name is Diaz and his father’s Mexican, but he can channel his mother’s Swedish heritage for the man’s comfort? White people are not members of the global majority, but they do live and exist outside Western Europe and the U.S. (like Mexico).

It’s so weird how parts of the fandom are making any positive reaction to a m/m relationship in this show (that isn’t their yaoi ‘buddie’ fanfiction) into something about loving to see white men kiss. Y’all would still be getting that with canon buddie! Y’all couldn’t even support Michael and Glenn (calling them “homewreckers”). Y’all constantly ignore Hen and Karen with your complaints of “queerbaiting.” Y’all also called TK & Carlos’ (911 Lone Star) relationship “toxic” because it began with sex and because y’all fanon Carlos as some aggressive control freak. Like… c’mon!

I don’t think anyone who is supportive of Buck’s new relationship is arguing that Tommy is perfect. He’s was a fucking dick to both Hen and Chim when they joined the 118. His “delivery man” comment to Chim was wildly unacceptable. No one has forgotten this. Yet both Hen and Chim are *NOW* good friends with him…? Why? He changed. And the show shows the audience this. They show that he developed a great camaraderie with Hen and Chim. They show how he— unlike Sal and Gerrard— shifted his behavior and worldview to accept, embrace, and enjoy change.

Tommy could have been Sal. He could have been Gerrard. He had a good working relationship with both men and both men encouraged bad behavior in the 118. Yet he didn’t. He stayed on and befriended Hen and Chim (when most of the other guys still refused). Because he chose to learn and change and open himself to people’s differences (which likely also helped him come to terms with his own “differences”).

Tommy’s arc is meant to show how someone can make amends, repair relationships, and become a better person (y’know… learn, grow, and reform himself). The general audience for this show is straight and white. They *need* to see white people changing and learning to be better. They *need* to see queer people coming into themselves. These are important story lines.

Fans like Buck and Tommy together because they like Buck and Tommy together, because they like what this means for them and what might happen going forward. That’s literally it. We’re all just overjoyed by having more queer representation, including Bi representation. That’s it.

But there are a lot of “buddie” shippers in people’s inboxes hating on Buck and Tommy together for no reason other than it stands in the way of their ideal porn fantasies (“buddie”). And they’re being weirdly queerphobic about it, too.

Hi Anon!!!! So much to unpack here. I'll post this and let anyone comment their thoughts because this is an interesting conversation.

I'll start by saying that it never occurred to me that Ryan Guzman was not White, until Bucktommy became more popular and some Buddie shippers said that Bucktommy shippers were preferring the White MM pairing and I was like "Hmm.... both Buddie and Bucktommy are White MM pairings"???? Like it never even occured to me.

I'm not here to debate Ryan Guzman's ethnicity, he knows that better than us, but as you mentionned people seem to forget that there are White latinos.

I should add that Americans will maybe have a different perspective but in Europe, there is racism, and there is also xenophobia both are bad, but not the same.

If I'm talking about someone who is White and Latino being a victim of prejudice, I would never say that they're victim of racism, I would say that he's victim of xenophobia.

Believe it or not there are a lot of Europeans are xenophobic but not racist and vice versa.

With that being said, I agree with the rest of your ask..

I love 911 Lone Star and watched 911 casually but I never got the Buddie shippers, especially the ones who said they shipped Buddie as a form of activism, or because there was a lack of Queer representation (which is true) but Henren are there, TK and Carlos are right there and it's the same franchise.

They never cared about Henren, they even erased them whenever they accused the show of Queerbaiting even thought it has several Queer characters.

I remember when they started complaining that Bucktommy had more fics that Henren after one kiss.... but never said anything about Buddie having over 20 000 fics after 6 years of nothing even thought Henren was canon.

A lot of their takes are rooted in hypocrisy, it's like they're taking all the arguments that have been thrown at them and throwing them back at Bucktommy shippers without even thinking about it.

It's very important to have discussion about fandom racism, because it's a huge issue especially in the biggest fandoms but I do feel like some of them are bringing the issue in bad faith. This discussion is so important but it needs to be had with the Bucktommy fandom AND the Buddie fandom. So far the Buddie shippers only want the Bucktommy shippers to have it.

Why don't they take a look at the mirror first and ask themselves why they never cared about a Black Lesbian couple when one of them was a Main Character. Why don't they ask themselves why a ship with 2 best friends has over 20000 fics and a canon ship that is TK and Carlos only have 7000.

And why do they find the weirdest excuses to hate on Carlos (as you said), who's clearly not White and never give him the same courtesy they give their fave White chatacters.

When Buddie shippers talk about fandom racism, all I can think is: the call is coming from inside the house.

[saveahorserideaneddie]

https://www.tumblr.com/autisticbuckley/757747581854056448/genuinely-starting-to-think-bobs-hate-tommy-cause?source=share

😭😭😭😭

i can't believe these people

they want their favorite racist to be eddie so badly that they have to blatantly mischaracterize a poc character just to justify their favorite racist (which… considering it’s a racist character they’re all fawning over isn’t shocking thag they do this)

they also can’t accept that this racist character hasn’t actually had any of the development/character traits they ascribe to him shown or even alluded to… they just took the actor’s headcanons and ran with them because they wanted to fawn over the first fugly white man that showed up out of nowhere to kiss buck

they call the racist character “caring and attentive” when all we’ve seen him do is talk down to buck in literally every interaction they’ve had, as well as saying “he’s grown from his past” when we’ve actually seen no legitimate evidence of that beyond his own words- which, he’s not the one to be judging that so his own words shouldn’t mean shit

i’m just fed up with these people weaponizing their own queerness to defend a racist white man… like this is why white queer people (as a white queer person) are lumped in with straight white people, because half the time they ignore actual plights and trauma of queer poc people to project their own “poor me” attitude, which is not what queerness is; we are not victims, we are survivors, but most white queer people would rather use that survival of oppression as an opportunity to get away with bad behavior rather than actually hold themselves accountable when being queer does not excuse negative behavior

the only “development” this man had was that they took an existing racist character and slapped the “gay” label on him out of nowhere— with no subtext or anything beforehand to indicate queerness

and white queer people took that and ran with it to create this image of a “poor oppressed little white man 🥺 he’s so misunderstood; he was racist and misogynistic bc he was closeted 👉👈” as if that’s any fucking excuse to be racist and misogynistic

i’m sick and tired of these people thinking they speak for all queer people when in reality they make up a small fraction of the queer community at large, most of whom aren’t willing to let queerness be weaponized as a defense for their bad behavior

[facetimebuddies]

i'm sorry but writing a whole thesis on why eddie is a shitty character and abusive or whatever other racist ass nonsense take you wanna make and then ending it with "TOMMY WOULD NEVER!~" is a level of delusional i hope to never ever achieve. that's some bonkers shit right there. honestly tho, the tommy they speak of doesn't actually exist because he's a fanon creation so who the fuck knows? maybe he's in the walls whispering to them. maybe he's transcended the fourth wall and lives among us. ... oh wait. lfj is a real person so yeah. there you go.

[gwenfr]

The extreme Buddie shippers posts I have to see on my for you page 😬 🤢

I'm just so annoyed and angry, I blocked I don't know how many of them but no, like mold, they still appear 😔

Buddie shipper on 1 post : Tommy is not interesting as a LI because we know nothing about him !!!

Same Buddie shipper just after : write 1500 words of all that we know about Tommy just to show he's bad

Buddie shipper on 1 post : Tommy is just a cardboard copy of Eddie

Same Buddie shipper just after : write 1000 words about how Tommy is boring and annoying and Eddie is the best man to ever exist

Buddie shipper on 1 post : Tommy's negative attitude is not normal

Same Buddie shipper just after : say that this character and the actor who plays him should die and that every fan of him is a piece of shit who can choke

Buddie shipper on 1 post : Tommy's sexual innuendos with his boyfriend are disgusting

Same Buddie shipper just after : write, and tell you to read, 30k words fics of porn

Buddie shipper on 1 post : Tommy should never be excused for how he was racist and misogynistic 15 years ago

Same Buddie shipper just after : write 500 words about how this poc/female character was bad and should die just because she didn't allow buddie to become canon

Buddie shipper on 1 post : people want Tommy with Buck only because they fetishize them

Same Buddie shipper just after : disregard any evidence that Eddie is straight and write 1000 words of personal thoughts as to why he's gay and would be hot with Buck

Buddie shipper on 1 post : the writers change scripts and storyline ideas all the time and even if for now Tommy is here, he still can be gone in season 8

Same Buddie shipper just after : the original scripts and ideas are 100% canon, it can't be changed, it said that Eddie was maybe to be gay so he's for sure gay !

Buddie shipper on 1 post : if you don't accept that Eddie is gay then you're just being homophobic

Same Buddie shipper just after : use a homophobic slur to describe the ship they don't like and write 500 words about how a adult gay man sexuality is disgusting

Buddie shipper on 1 post : we should be able to ship in peace and not be harassed for our ship

Same Buddie shipper just after : yeah well the hacking and harassment were justified and will happen again because they need to learn who is the only otp

[ravi-is-my-beloved]

I'm so tired of being scared to speak out against Tommy and BuckTommy fans because of the chance they'll call me homophobic and paint me as part of the reason why they feel unsafe in this fandom, when these fans are the reason I, a gay brown man, feel unsafe in this fandom since they're so quick to forgive and defend a racist and misogynistic character for his past actions despite his victims never actually forgiving him on screen and his so-called change being non-existent.

Like please, for once in your life, actually think about how some of who don't like Tommy are people who are part of the marginalized groups he was being racist and misogynistic to and they have valid, non-homophobic reasons for disliking him. And while Tommy may be a fictional character, you defending him so easily and so quickly is harmful to actual real life people of color and women because it makes actual racist and misogynistic white men think they can easily be forgiven for their actions just because they're queer.

And you're right, there are anti Tommy/anti BuckTommy people who are actually homophobic and their homophobia is just as harmful to queer people as your dismissal of Tommy's racist and misogynistic actions. And you're right that we shouldn't let them get away with it.

So here's a little but necessary talk for all of my fellow anti Tommy/anti BuckTommy people (please note that these are all of the things I've personally seen while scrolling through the tags, so there's probably so much more harmful rhetoric than what I've listed):

Saying that Tommy is a predator and that he only wants Buck for sex is homophobic because gay men are so often painted as predators by homophobes and gay men have been villainized for their sexual behavior for so many years. Also all of you who joke about wanting Tommy to die in the upcoming season is also harmful to gay men because writers have a history of killing of queer characters and not giving them their happy endings and it's still a problem today.

But BuckTommy fans also all need to also take a step back and think about how your actions and words are hurting people too.

Think about how painting Eddie Diaz, a man of color, as this temperamental man is perpetuating harmful stereotypes against Mexican men. Think about how even jokingly (though I don't know how much of it is y'all actually joking) saying that Tommy deserves to have more scenes than Karen and Hen is perpetuating the lack of content/representation of black lesbians.

The call is coming from inside the house, but it's not just our house it's coming from. It's coming from yours too.

(NOTE: I do want to briefly speak out against how both sides of this fandom use the words/phrases "delusional" and "need someone to spell things out for them" in a way that's very harmful for people with mental illnesses and people with learning disabilities. I know these are things that are constantly being used on the internet, but they're still harmful and we should all strive to learn about how harmful we're (most unintentionally) being.)

[featheryminx]

i used to go through the [buckt* mmy] tag to hate read back when it was like funny and entertaining

now it’s just like. sad and kind of gross. i read those posts and im like wow you guys are really attached to literally the worst character ever. and then i go on my little block sprees 🥰

hate below the cut (nothing novel, really)

a: evan 🤮

b: howie 🤮 I don’t actually remember if tommy calls him this in canon or if this has been invented wholesale by the Them, but like. either way it displeases me. like the man very clearly prefers his nickname

c:

lol. classic Them enjoyer. media literacy WHO

like i’m sorry. you don’t even know the context for the analysis you’re conducting? embarassing

my thing about that is like. i consume secondhand media sometimes too (see: my recent batfam era, even though I literally have never read the comics) but Im at least aware that the secondhand analysis/impressions/fanon that I’m absorbing are not necessarily (or in Batfam’s case, at all) true to canon.

the Them seem to be fundamentally unable to distinguish between real actual canon and random shit someone just made up. this has been true since the beginning of the whole thing, what with L’s loser ass cameos giving T “backstory”.

this is is extra ironic because they keep harping on and on about how “their ship is canon” and that they’re getting unwarranted hate for just switching to “liking a canon ship”… like, no babe, you don’t like the canon ship. You, just like Buddies, also like a fanon ship, because whatever the fuck you are celebrating over there does not exist.

d: OH MY GOD late addition but this shit makes me so mad

why are you SO proud that your section of the fandom is championing yet another racist character? like babe we don’t like him. we don’t want to see him in fic! eughhh

all this to say. no more Them. Gross. Stop It.

[lover-of-mine]

Lady Whistledown.... OK on the parenting front. We all need to step into Narnia for a moment and forget he ever did cameos. Everything we know simply exists in the 911 universe as Canon. So you must understand that in this universe (thanks to Lous head canons he was paid for) he lost his mother at a young age and his father was a bully he ran from. And also the bachelor party was a way of showing Tommy as the mature one and carefully crafted to show that Eddie and Buck are just like play mates.

Tommy because he lost said mother so young will be the one to identify with Christopher and coax the young boy home. And if Christopher runs again because Eddie does something terrible. Well, our savior, Tommy will be the one to think you know maybe he went to Shannon's grave stone. He shall arrive and talk to the boy again. Because see clearly Buck and Eddie do not have the emotional capacity to accomplish this.

Also yes secretly Eddie is probably a little mad and jealous of Buck. You see, he did not realize when Tommy was courting him it was actually and option he could say yes, and now Buck stole him. But never fear Tommy will confess to Buck he was like 50th choice and because Buck loves Eddie so much he accepts being Eddies second choice to keep his family..

And your question on them realizing? Yes, after the hospital kiss, we were supposed to get more friend time of Eddie and Tommy. Tommy and Chris. All four at dinner together bonding. We got literally 2 scenes! Also, yes, they desperately wanted that dinner scene to contain the word boyfriend or love confession, so they didn't have to worry all summer.

Also deeply disappointed that the Hen Karen and Tommy scene was cut because that is probably where Hen on screen declares for the GA stop being mad at Tommy. See, I'm black and queer and my beautiful smart wife even loves Tommy. When I said "finally " to Karen, it was about both Tommy and Buck!!! Duh!!!!

So hopefully, that explains the "Christopher had three dads" PR department.

But also, when they were really, really mad at us, because we were so evil smart we were able to hack Lous personal Twitter and set him up as a racist. Maybe they should find a way of making sure they unmask us like the Scooby Doo villains we are to Oliver. Then Oliver would understand how toxic we really are.

But stepping out of Narnia. My impression on the Eddie front is that it's turning desperate in ways to make Tommy more relevant than he actually is to the story because it's the only way to get him more screen time than Karen. We all know that's never happening. They can't stand he will only exist in scenes with Buck if back and not on the forefront of the firefam. A family he definitely isn't a part of.

Hey, baby 🩷🩷 laughter doesn't begin to cover the sounds I was making while reading this. I will say I did not keep up with his cameos so this is all news to me so I'm loving it. The level of delusion. I'm speechless. So Tommy is the mature one and Buck is just there. Eddie being above Buck in the poli version is hysterical. Boy can't get a single win, huh? So they were expecting the Hen seal of approval and a place in Eddie's life and they got... That. That's nice. I feel better for the chaos reading this, ngl, I see you and feel the urge to pop some popcorn.

I mean, Taylor got a dinner with Eddie and Chris, even I thought the dude was gonna get something after 706. But I agree with your assessment, everyone knows the only way a love interest is gonna have a fighting chance is if they exist outside of Buck. And Tommy has possible threads that the show deliberately didn't pick because, hello, hello, he is not part of the family. God, I'm BEGGING for the show to give us something that explicitly contradicts as many of Lou's cameos as possible. (Does anyone have a bullet points list of those, because I legit lost track and I'm curious)

I maintain what I said when the hacking drama was happening tho, as your local buddie shipper computer scientist, I speak for all of us that if we were going to hack something, it would be the abc servers to get the karaoke scene. And, also, being a bad person never made a love interest leave the show, why would anyone bother making him look bad?

I'm still giggling at the Tommy/Eddie of it all. Like, if Tommy wanted Eddie and Eddie wanted Tommy and Buck is just a means to an end, and Tommy is a better parent, then what's the purpose of Buck in their heads? Does he just look pretty and gets fucked? This is madness. MADNESS.

[sammyunhinged]

This fandom is so divided right now that it’s stressing me out.

Everyone is either pro- or anti-Tommy, pro- or anti-Bucktommy, or loves/hates Lou. It’s the only reason I was hoping bucktommy would break up in E10—I just didn’t want the shipping war to continue over hiatus. However, I’m a multishipper who enjoys bucktommy, especially all the amazing fan works people have been making, and has loved buddie for years. I would like for each side to take a moment to understand the other’s perspective. This is my likely futile attempt to get people to do so…

For the bucktommy shippers:

I need you to respect those who can’t forgive Tommy yet. Just because Hen and Chimney seem to have forgiven him, doesn’t mean that the marginalized communities that this character has been prejudiced against on screen need to forgive him too. He’s been misogynistic, racist, and homophobic (which yes likely stemmed from internalized homophobia but that doesn’t excuse his behavior).

I need you to realize that so far we’ve gotten nothing from canon except a couple kisses and few brief conversations. People are allowed to be upset with the writers for not giving us the potential this relationship has, or not be on board yet because canon hasn’t given them reason to, or simply just not love Tommy and therefore not love their relationship. Unlike Taylor who got lots of on screen development and backstory, Tommy hasn’t had that yet. It may take some time for people to get there, if they get there at all. It doesn’t mean you’re not allowed to ship it.

I also need you to be aware that a huge portion of that shipping side of the fandom consistently hates on Buddie. Plus, a significant number of people have just started watching the show and jumped into S7 without context and so so many—honestly the loudest portion of the shippers—are fetishizing gay men and are clearly just here to watch two hot white men kiss on screen. It’s disturbing and understandably turns people off to the shippers and often the ship. Fetishization of queerness is something fandom in general has been dealing with for decades and just because it’s 2024 doesn’t mean it’s still not happening. Just because you haven’t seen it also doesn’t mean it’s not happening. Also I’m not saying it doesn’t exist on the buddie side of fandom—it absolutely does—it’s just very loud with the bucktommy shippers atm.

I need some of y’all to understand that the hate for Lou at the moment is also understandable. There are some fat-phobic, misogynistic, and racist things still posted on his Instagram from about a decade ago and while this was a decade ago and people can change and grow, the fact that they’re still up says things about a person. Until they are acknowledged, disliking him and not supporting him is completely valid. The exact same goes for Ryan Guzman, but that’s a whole other conversation.

Edit: as of June 3, Lou Ferringo Jr. has proven, through a reply to someone calling him out for a racist Instagram post, that he is still racist and ableist. He replied to the person on Twitter with an ableist joke and then deleted it when he got shit for it.

For the buddie shippers:

There needs to be more respect the art of Multishipping in general, especially by younger fans lately. It’s the heart of fandom. Just because you don’t get bucktommy doesn’t mean others can’t see the potential for this relationship to be interesting plot-wise and great for Buck personally. Someone enjoying a ship you hate doesn’t mean they’re a horrible person. Also so many people love both ships and truly just want the best for Buck. These are the people that are so happy for him and want this relationship to be happy and healthy and meaningful for Buck.

But I also need you to be sympathetic toward those who jumped onboard with bucktommy because they’ve been burned by queerbait too often to ship a non-canon, bait-y ship like Buddie. No matter how much you love the show and love Buddie, you have to admit there’s been relationship baiting between them. I shipped destiel and merthur and all those things too. I get it. I need others to respect that the peak of queerbaiting was a very difficult time for fandom. It’s left some people unable to get on board.

I also need y’all to stop speculating about Lou and Oliver’s personal relationship and whether or not Oliver hates Lou. It’s strange, parasocial, and speculating about people’s lives is never appropriate. At least don’t do it online and in public forums. Talk with your friends, dm people, do whatever you want in private, but in public, let’s just leave them be. They are actors with a job. Let them do that job in peace.

I’ll probably get some flack but I consider myself to very middle of the road about all of this, a space I often find myself in fandoms. Maybe because I’ve been here so long. I so often just want people to chill out. It’s fandom. It’s supposed to be fun. Have fun!!

[hainethehero]

same anon as before: yes, I did read your whole post. a few times.

"I am aware he apologized." - ok I'm so glad you are! But you didn't make any mention whatsoever of that in your post. You could have said it as a quick parenthetical statement e.g. "In the past Ryan defended the use of racial slurs (although he later publicly apologised)".

your post leaves your readers with the impression that Ryan just made a bunch of racist statements, suffered zero repercussion, never apologised, and then, people can and will extrapolate from that - he probably continues to be racist to this day!

"I'm saying POCs have a right to still be upset about it because it shouldn't have been a thing in the first place???" - Great! my ask never said they don't!

"Where in my post did I say Ryan was irredeemable?" - where did I say in my ask that you said he's irredeemable??

You were very fair in pointing out that fandom has said other awful things about Ryan that are definitely not true.

But to completely leave out mention of his apology seemed deceptive and biased, as it's a crucially important fact that he actually listened to people around him, realised the weight of his actions, and publicly apologised. That makes all the difference in the situation.

That's why he still has fans on tumblr. They're not "excusing his racism", they're accepting his apology and trusting that he's learned, grown and changed.

Whereas, if we're going to discuss ljfr and tommy, I would argue ljfr has given some interview answers that sound uncomfortably like he's "excusing" tommy's racism, when he downplayed it as teasing/hazing (I forget the exact wording). Neutral question - did you happen to read his interview answers about tommy's attitude towards Hen? It's rather damning.

Also, the canon evidence you give of tommy having been redeemed is imo flimsy at best, and s7 could have done a lot more with tommy's limited screentime and dialogue to really show he's a different person to what he was in the past. I don't know what will happen in s8, I'm curious to see if tommy's characterisation changes or develops at all.

I just find it truly bizarre to act like it's logical and rational to defend and give the benefit of the doubt to a fictional character, which cannot be harmed or affected by hate, which does not exist outside a fictional story, or act other than according to what the script says, rather than do the same for a real life human being, who most assuredly CAN be harmed and affected by hate, who DOES exist and do things in the real world, who has an interior life unaffected by words in a script.

The point about Ryan has already been addressed. If fans have realized that he's apologized and have it in good faith that he's changed, then that's good. If fans are still hurt by his use of & defense of using slurs, they're allowed to be. That's not for you to decide.

Lou's interviews about Tommy's early times in the show were vague at best. The canon is CLEARLY insufficient but it's obvious why. Tommy's character wasn't really a mainstay. There were no deeper aspects to his character because he wasn't meant to stick around after s2. That's why there wasn't a whole ass redemption arc for him but rather a small montage. The point was to obviously show that both him and Hen and Chim reconciled their past and became good friends. If you & stans who think like you don't get that, then y'all are CHOOSING not to get it because it would be easier to have a reason to hate Tommy, rather than just hating him because he's with Buck. Honestly, it would be better if yall just admitted you hate him cos he's with Buck. No one would have a problem with that. But conflating issues and making them seem bigger than the show intended them to be to justify your hatred of Tommy just seems disingenuous.

If Tommy wasn't with Buck, y'all would NOT give a damn about this man's character I swear.

My whole original post was about toxic buddie stans virtue signaling and conflating the issue of racism as an excuse to justify their hatred of Tommy. And how those SAME stans are sending Lou death threats & hate to him- an actor who's just doing his job.

[saveahorserideaneddie]

ah yes a bucktommy shipper replying to my post telling me im wrong for calling out people who claim to multiship yet then shit all over buddie because “people are allowed to criticize/critique” (which….. literally what is there to critique anyway that has an actual basis for that critique and not just thinky veiled racism against ryan/eddie or some form of the god awful ‘eddie is straight’ argument)

meanwhile bucktommy shippers are the ones who are actively sending violent hate and death threats to people for pointing out the fact that tommy canonically has had zero positive portrayal on the show aside from…. kissing buck??? like he is constantly shown to be dismissive and disrespectful, he is always talking down to buck, trying to tell buck what he is or isn’t ready for, trying to tell buck what he should or shouldn’t feel, not to mention yk the whole racism and misogyny thing that STILL has had zero impact on him as a character (which just flushes hen and chimney’s character development down the toilet bc they just decided to ignore that so they could use him as a plot device)

yeah, you don’t get to speak on this one, bud.

(note: the reply is being deleted and i am blocking this person. do not try to track then down and send hate to them; be the bigger person. i always say the block and delete buttons exist for a reason and they are my friends, so i am going to use them.)

but whi knows maybe i’m just a

who doesn’t know what i’m talking about bc “fandom doesn’t have rules” 🙄

you’re right; this is make believe. so stop sending death threats to buddie shippers and harrassing the cast and crew of the show because your favorite racist isn’t getting a spotlight.

[buddieisgoingcanon25]

I don't think Tim loves Tommy/Lou that much. If he loved him that much, he would have developed the character better because he had time to do so. He and Buck might have had relationship problems, but they wouldn't have broken up. He simply brought in an existing character so he wouldn't have to write a new one, without thinking about what that character had been like, and that's what hurts me, he was a racist and homophobic character with Chim and Hen, and that wasn't even mentioned, to me his behavior is inexcusable. After the fact that he's Abby's ex-fiancé, that confirms to me that they used easy resources to give him some development, a little. Abby, a woman Buck was in love with and who left him in a horrible way, is that loving a character? I don't think so, and that they simply turned to Lou maybe because he was free.

If Tommy returns, I don't think it'll be so he can get back with Buck, otherwise, they wouldn't have focused so much on the Buddie issue or authorized so many interviews. Above all, they would have made that farewell much lighter, a simple farewell between friends, not focusing on the characters with close-ups. If he does return, it should be so Eddie and Buck realize it's always been them. In any case, I think bringing this character back is a huge mistake.

If it ends up being queerbaiting and Tommy really is Buck's endgame, the environment is going to become extremely toxic, and it won't be surprising. A ship may be a small part of a TV series, but at the same time, it's one of the parts that can do the most damage. Imagine a scenario in which it turns out they've been playing Buddie for years to simply be a promotional element using a false resource. Keep in mind that Eddie is Latino and has been replaced by a white person in a (possible) LGBT couple, there may even be accusations of racism. I definitely want to believe Tim is too smart not to go down this route. If there is no Buddie Eddie and Buck shouldn't be with anyone.

In the end, there's no real evidence that he's coming back, only speculation based on a video or images that we don't even know if they belong to 911.

Exactly. Again thanks for this ask nonny. Very much appreciated. To that last part, THERE HAS BEEN NO ACTUAL EVIDENCE that T is back.