#This exists because tommy used to be racist

[buckboi]

.

[shaunashipman]

Writing vs. Character

yes i am terribly at coming up with titles

the problem with most criticism of tommy and bucktommy is that, it's coming from a point of view of criticizing the character instead of criticizing the writing. the characters don’t exist in a vacuum, if you dislike a character, it’s either because you are supposed to dislike the character, or the writer/s didn’t do a proper job with conveying what they wanted with the character.

(there is, of course, the third option, where you simply just don’t like a character with no objective reasoning, which is perfectly valid but consistently denied as the reason for the dislike, so for the sake of these writings, we’ll be disregarding this reason)

the writers haven’t succeeded in convincing them about tommy, but instead of blaming the writing, they have decided that their negative perceptions are instead the writers’ intentions.

instead of "tommy's redemption felt unearned because we didn't see enough of the work and I would like to see it addressed" it becomes "tommy was never shown apologizing, so he's still racist"

instead of "the joke felt ill-timed and out of place in what was otherwise a serious emotional conversation, and took me out of the moment" it becomes "tommy made a sex joke during a serious conversation, he's clearly a sex-crazed predator"

instead of "it doesn't fit with previous characterization for tommy calling buck 'evan'" it becomes "buck doesn't like tommy calling him 'evan' and tommy is disrespectful for doing it"

instead of “we haven’t seen or been told much about buck and tommy’s relationship so it seems he put more effort into his friendship with eddie than he does his relationship with buck” it becomes “tommy doesn’t actually care about buck and was trying to get with eddie first”

instead of “buck didn’t seem committed when he said ‘I guess so’ and the realization scene was confusing as a result” it becomes “buck is confused about his own feelings and doesn’t actually like tommy”

I think it's because they feel they can't criticise the writers? cause the writers—tim—are supposed to be the ones giving them this epic slow-burn romance, so they can't be bad writers. it must be intentional. but then they ignore how it doesn't fit with the writing of the other characters.

"hen never forgave him and still hates him"

there's a difference between not liking your friend's boyfriend, and thinking your friend's boyfriend is a racist misogynist. hen has never been shy about telling her friends what she thinks of their SO's, why would she hesitate for a second to tell buck what she thinks of tommy? and the "what are your intentions" scene doesn't count, whatever your reading of it. I mean, why would she not have gone over to his loft, or approached him at the firehouse, and said "hey, this is how your boyfriend was towards me, he's never apologized, and I don't believe he's changed". buck highly values hen's opinion, I'd go as far as to say he values her opinion most after maddie and bobby. hen always has the answers, hen doesn't follow others' leads, she marches to the beat of her own drum. it would take one conversation with her for buck to go and end things with tommy. so saying hen still hates him does not fit with her characterization or the writing.

"tommy ignored buck's vulnerability and made a sex joke"

then why didn't we see that reflected in buck? if we were meant to come away from that scene thinking that tommy was being inappropriate and buck felt grossed out by him making a sex joke during talks of their father figures, why is the last shot we have of buck's face on the date a grin? if that's what they wanted us to come away from the scene thinking, they would have ended the scene with a shot of buck frowning, of him looking vaguely uncomfortable. it would have made a good mirroring of him being uncomfortable less than a minute before about something that tommy said, and tommy noticing and asking about it, if they had shown buck making a similar face when tommy looked away after the comment, but they chose to have the last shot be of his grin.

“buck doesn’t like tommy calling him ‘evan’”

there is no evidence of buck disliking it when anyone except his parents call him evan. maddie regularly uses it, eddie has used, and ali used it. the only people he’s ever objected to calling him that is his parents. we have also seen, in 6x10, his reaction to being called ‘evan’ by someone he expects and prefers to call him ‘buck’, when chimney refers to him as ‘evan’ to pre-emptively keep the parental visit cordial. buck reacts with confusion and amusement, as evidenced by his face at the initial naming, and by him jokingly referring to chimney as “howie”, done so with a smile. no sign of upset in his response. to argue that buck doesn’t like tommy calling him ‘evan’ also doesn’t account for buck never objecting. buck has been shown to be perfectly capable of standing up for himself, and it goes directly against his growth in relationships. he’s not going to settle anymore, and that would include settling for someone calling him a name he doesn’t like. furthermore, tim said they were going for a “rom-com” with bucktommy, and a significant other using their real name while everyone else calls them a nickname is a rom-com staple.

“tommy doesn’t care about buck and was trying to get with eddie first”

all of tommy and eddie’s hang outs were average ‘bro’ hangouts. the only one that required any ‘effort’ on tommy’s part was the fight, which, considering tommy got the tickets from a friend, may be something he does regularly and not anything special; the same could be assumed of karaoke trivia. basketball is canonically something that eddie does regularly, and invites other friends to. there is no textual basis for believing that tommy had romantic/sexual feeling for eddie at any point, which we can see as we have textual evidence of how tommy behaves when he has feelings for someone, buck, for comparison. tommy shows he cares for for buck when he goes to buck’s to clear the air and make sure buck knew he wasn’t intentionally being excluded. he didn’t have to do it, but even as an acquaintance he was concerned about buck’s feelings. while at buck’s he offered to teach him muay thai, and his prior offer of flight lessons was explicitly referenced as something he still wants to do, showing that tommy wanted to spend more time with buck, even prior to confirming the feelings are romantic. after the failed date, if tommy didn’t actually care about buck, he could have either simply not agreed to meet for coffee, or turned buck down when asked to the wedding. a wedding, especially one for the family of your date, is an extremely hectic emotional affair. many people would not go with someone they had only been dating for a few months to a close family member’s wedding. before the wedding, tommy attended the bachelor party despite being on call. first responders on call generally spend that time resting in anticipation of being called in, as unless something happens to a responder on the clock whose position needs covering, being called in means there is an emergency that won’t allow much if any rest. which is exactly what happened. from context, people including tommy, left the bachelor party somewhere between 9pm and midnight. the hospital wedding couldn’t have happened any sooner than early evening, even at exaggerated tv speeds. with tommy coming to the hospital in his turnouts, so directly from the fire, that means he was fighting the fire for between 20-24 hours. that is in addition the being awake for at least 2-3 hours before being called in. it would be perfectly understandable, especially to a wedding full of first responders, if he simply went home, showered and slept. but he had a chance to show up for at least some it, so he did. if we were meant to believe that tommy didn’t care for buck, they would not have had him show up, and they wouldn’t have shown how much of an effort it was for him to show up.

“buck is confused about his own feelings and doesn’t actually like tommy”

buck wasn’t confused about liking tommy, he was initially confused about the nature of his feeling for tommy, platonic vs romantic, as he was not aware that romantic feelings for men were an option for him. but after the failed date when speaking to maddie, he responds first generally about men—that he checks out men’s asses—then, unprompted, he begins listing things he likes about tommy—that he’s confident, interesting, and has a cleft—both physical and personality-wise. if we were meant to believe buck didn’t actually like tommy and was just caught up in realizing he’s bisexual, then they would have had buck stay to generic things about men. by the time of his talk with eddie, at least 3 days have passed since the failed date, and almost a week since tommy kissed him. and yet when asked, he says he can’t stop thinking about tommy. they could have had him say something non-committal, something that could be read as him liking tommy while still being ambiguous, but they had him explicitly state that he has been thinking about tommy frequently since the kiss. and finally, the coffee date. a date that buck initiates, where he states that he thinks he and tommy could have something. while he uses the word “thinks”, that language is in line with many rom-com love declarations, and tim has stated he wrote the storyline with rom-coms in mind. buck then invites tommy to maddie’s wedding, which was not spontaneous as he would have had to clear the invite with maddie. all of which would reasonably lead the audience to understand that buck has in fact examined his feelings for tommy over the course of several days, and settled any confusion he made have initially had.

the writers may or may not have done a good job, that is always up to interpretation, but it is undeniable what their intentions were

[stvrpst]

Bummy shippers are some of the weakest links I've ever seen in a fandom😭 Imagine being a die-hard buddie shipper for years just to give up when the writers throw buck at yet another romance with little chemistry or buildup simply because Tommy is a guy.

I'm glad Buck can explore this side of himself, but that doesn't mean I'm going to settle with a lazy and inadequate excuse for LGBT representation. Have your opinions, but the writers could have handled Buck's storyline far better, and it's clear they're being lazy about it because Oliver has been so fucking silent about the entire relationship as a whole.

There is a difference between shipping gay couples and being borderline fetishistic. You're nasty if you're shipping only to see two men kiss and fuck, rather than for the important reasons, to see a beautiful queer story with chemistry, depth, and buildup between the two

Which I'm sure half of bummy shippers are guilty of. Because bummy literally has the same build and chemistry as all of Buck's previous relationships, if not less. The same relationships you were complaining about weeks ago.

I thought y’all said we needed to stop putting buck in relationships that lacked chemistry and build up?💀

Why is it okay now? Cuz Tommy’s a man? I hope y’all are aware of how stupid y’all’s asses sound.

Cuz to claim Tommy is complex, or even has an ounce of characterization is absolutely insane, and hypocritical. His only attributes is him being a racist misogynistic asshole, and a borderline boring ass character.

And news flash! just because people want to see a realistic, queer, slow burn romance that isn’t rushed or built off of envy and jealousy, doesn’t make them homophobic. It has nothing to do with homophobia, it’s about chemistry and depth, and the relationship as whole. I could give less of a fuck if tommy is a man.

People can have their opinions and it doesn’t mean they’re homophobic just because they clocked the fact that the rep media is pushing is repetitive and shitty. It just means people are not wiling to settle for just two guys kissing. We want more then that.

"Why can't we just enjoy this!" Because it’s people like you who make media feel comfortable enough to hurl poor excuses of LGBTQ representation at us.

you're a bunch of weak fucking links who fold at just a fraction of poorly written stories about a man kissing another man, rather than advocating for authentic, original, compelling, and well-written representation for us.

And then you have the nerve to whine about our poor media reputation. You are the reason why. They see you folding at a man kissing a man and decide to just throw it in our faces without putting in the effort, like "Here!" "Now shut up!"

Because you don’t pressure them enough to actually look into and understand genuine queer representation. Y’all drool and foam from the mouth at just the thought of two men kissing or fucking, and that’s what they give us.

It's obvious that the "rep" we got was shit, because if it was good, why is half the rep y’all think we got, just made up headcanons? Why do you have to pay $200 for someone to discuss it and provide headcanons? Why is Tommy's entire non-existent personality based on headcanons that are neither canon nor depicted in the show?

Why is the relationship in general on Twitter and here primarily made up of headcanons? I promise you, if the representation was really that good, you wouldn't have to pay $200. If Tommy had true complexity and characterization, you wouldn't need to create all of these headcanons because it would’ve been displayed on the show instead.

If the representation was that good, Lou wouldn’t have deluded y’all with all these headcanons. He wouldn’t need to, cuz it would’ve been shown on the show. But alas, we got jack fucking shit, and now y’all have to rely on headcanons to give this relationship some substance and legs to stand on.

Like this isn’t about ships, and whose better or whatever the fuck. This is about getting good representation in media. This is about getting beautiful, complex, queer stories, which Buddie already had the foundation for.

And instead of the writers taking the perfect opportunity to tell a beautiful story that could’ve been told between the two, the writers decided to throw in a random ass white man with zero characteristics or chemistry with Buck. That’s why people are upset.

“They’re just mad because it’s not their ship!” and they have every right to be mad that it’s not their ship, because unlike yours, their ship had all the key components and foundational build that the writers could’ve used to bring a beautiful queer story to life. But alas, they took the easy way out.

It’s a reasonable response.

I don't understand criticizing and mocking people because they're outraged that the writers fumbled an opportunity to show accurate representation in media. I do not understand how the responses to the writer's poorly written storyline is homophobic.

I really don’t.

Also, some of us are tired of seeing the same boring ass gay white couples over and over. That shit is repetitive. Some of us, who are POC or even just white, want to witness a beautiful interracial queer couple. It's not all about your queer, white ass. The world already revolves around you. Excuse us for wanting to see some interracial queer representation.

Pushing for greater queer POC representation is not homophobic.

Do you know what is homophobic and racist tho? Being actively opposed to having an openly queer Mexican lead character because the idea threatens your bland ass, white ass ship.

So you'd rather keep them straight, knowing that there are Mexican and Latino queer fans that identify with Eddie and see him as a comfort character. But let's rescind the representation they could get so that another white queer couple in the media can capture their attention.

[wenellyb]

Eddie Diaz is a white Latino. Did people learn nothing from the Pedro Pascal discourse? And does the fandom *not* remember that episode where the funeral protestor refuses to be tended by Hen and Chim, so he asks Eddie to give him care— fully seeing he’s white— until Eddie says his last name is Diaz and his father’s Mexican, but he can channel his mother’s Swedish heritage for the man’s comfort? White people are not members of the global majority, but they do live and exist outside Western Europe and the U.S. (like Mexico).

It’s so weird how parts of the fandom are making any positive reaction to a m/m relationship in this show (that isn’t their yaoi ‘buddie’ fanfiction) into something about loving to see white men kiss. Y’all would still be getting that with canon buddie! Y’all couldn’t even support Michael and Glenn (calling them “homewreckers”). Y’all constantly ignore Hen and Karen with your complaints of “queerbaiting.” Y’all also called TK & Carlos’ (911 Lone Star) relationship “toxic” because it began with sex and because y’all fanon Carlos as some aggressive control freak. Like… c’mon!

I don’t think anyone who is supportive of Buck’s new relationship is arguing that Tommy is perfect. He’s was a fucking dick to both Hen and Chim when they joined the 118. His “delivery man” comment to Chim was wildly unacceptable. No one has forgotten this. Yet both Hen and Chim are *NOW* good friends with him…? Why? He changed. And the show shows the audience this. They show that he developed a great camaraderie with Hen and Chim. They show how he— unlike Sal and Gerrard— shifted his behavior and worldview to accept, embrace, and enjoy change.

Tommy could have been Sal. He could have been Gerrard. He had a good working relationship with both men and both men encouraged bad behavior in the 118. Yet he didn’t. He stayed on and befriended Hen and Chim (when most of the other guys still refused). Because he chose to learn and change and open himself to people’s differences (which likely also helped him come to terms with his own “differences”).

Tommy’s arc is meant to show how someone can make amends, repair relationships, and become a better person (y’know… learn, grow, and reform himself). The general audience for this show is straight and white. They *need* to see white people changing and learning to be better. They *need* to see queer people coming into themselves. These are important story lines.

Fans like Buck and Tommy together because they like Buck and Tommy together, because they like what this means for them and what might happen going forward. That’s literally it. We’re all just overjoyed by having more queer representation, including Bi representation. That’s it.

But there are a lot of “buddie” shippers in people’s inboxes hating on Buck and Tommy together for no reason other than it stands in the way of their ideal porn fantasies (“buddie”). And they’re being weirdly queerphobic about it, too.

Hi Anon!!!! So much to unpack here. I'll post this and let anyone comment their thoughts because this is an interesting conversation.

I'll start by saying that it never occurred to me that Ryan Guzman was not White, until Bucktommy became more popular and some Buddie shippers said that Bucktommy shippers were preferring the White MM pairing and I was like "Hmm.... both Buddie and Bucktommy are White MM pairings"???? Like it never even occured to me.

I'm not here to debate Ryan Guzman's ethnicity, he knows that better than us, but as you mentionned people seem to forget that there are White latinos.

I should add that Americans will maybe have a different perspective but in Europe, there is racism, and there is also xenophobia both are bad, but not the same.

If I'm talking about someone who is White and Latino being a victim of prejudice, I would never say that they're victim of racism, I would say that he's victim of xenophobia.

Believe it or not there are a lot of Europeans are xenophobic but not racist and vice versa.

With that being said, I agree with the rest of your ask..

I love 911 Lone Star and watched 911 casually but I never got the Buddie shippers, especially the ones who said they shipped Buddie as a form of activism, or because there was a lack of Queer representation (which is true) but Henren are there, TK and Carlos are right there and it's the same franchise.

They never cared about Henren, they even erased them whenever they accused the show of Queerbaiting even thought it has several Queer characters.

I remember when they started complaining that Bucktommy had more fics that Henren after one kiss.... but never said anything about Buddie having over 20 000 fics after 6 years of nothing even thought Henren was canon.

A lot of their takes are rooted in hypocrisy, it's like they're taking all the arguments that have been thrown at them and throwing them back at Bucktommy shippers without even thinking about it.

It's very important to have discussion about fandom racism, because it's a huge issue especially in the biggest fandoms but I do feel like some of them are bringing the issue in bad faith. This discussion is so important but it needs to be had with the Bucktommy fandom AND the Buddie fandom. So far the Buddie shippers only want the Bucktommy shippers to have it.

Why don't they take a look at the mirror first and ask themselves why they never cared about a Black Lesbian couple when one of them was a Main Character. Why don't they ask themselves why a ship with 2 best friends has over 20000 fics and a canon ship that is TK and Carlos only have 7000.

And why do they find the weirdest excuses to hate on Carlos (as you said), who's clearly not White and never give him the same courtesy they give their fave White chatacters.

When Buddie shippers talk about fandom racism, all I can think is: the call is coming from inside the house.

[eddiediazismyhusband]

https://www.tumblr.com/autisticbuckley/757747581854056448/genuinely-starting-to-think-bobs-hate-tommy-cause?source=share

😭😭😭😭

i can't believe these people

they want their favorite racist to be eddie so badly that they have to blatantly mischaracterize a poc character just to justify their favorite racist (which… considering it’s a racist character they’re all fawning over isn’t shocking thag they do this)

they also can’t accept that this racist character hasn’t actually had any of the development/character traits they ascribe to him shown or even alluded to… they just took the actor’s headcanons and ran with them because they wanted to fawn over the first fugly white man that showed up out of nowhere to kiss buck

they call the racist character “caring and attentive” when all we’ve seen him do is talk down to buck in literally every interaction they’ve had, as well as saying “he’s grown from his past” when we’ve actually seen no legitimate evidence of that beyond his own words- which, he’s not the one to be judging that so his own words shouldn’t mean shit

i’m just fed up with these people weaponizing their own queerness to defend a racist white man… like this is why white queer people (as a white queer person) are lumped in with straight white people, because half the time they ignore actual plights and trauma of queer poc people to project their own “poor me” attitude, which is not what queerness is; we are not victims, we are survivors, but most white queer people would rather use that survival of oppression as an opportunity to get away with bad behavior rather than actually hold themselves accountable when being queer does not excuse negative behavior

the only “development” this man had was that they took an existing racist character and slapped the “gay” label on him out of nowhere— with no subtext or anything beforehand to indicate queerness

and white queer people took that and ran with it to create this image of a “poor oppressed little white man 🥺 he’s so misunderstood; he was racist and misogynistic bc he was closeted 👉👈” as if that’s any fucking excuse to be racist and misogynistic

i’m sick and tired of these people thinking they speak for all queer people when in reality they make up a small fraction of the queer community at large, most of whom aren’t willing to let queerness be weaponized as a defense for their bad behavior

[vampiremillk]

Hi! If you have the time, do you happen to have any hc's on the beloved Tommy with a black girlfriend living in the Hewitt household? 🥺🤲🏿

T.H. - IT'S POLITE TO STARE !⠀

PAIRING : thomas hewitt &&. black female reader

— CONTENT WARNING : minors and blank blogs do not interact , mentions of racial prejudice ( it's the 1960s ) , mentions of self-harm , additional characters , sheriff hoyt is a racist and a pervert but what's new , black coded of course , chubby coded

— BOO'S NOTE .ᐟ . . . screaming and crying that i finally receive a request like this one !! babe totally deserves a woman of color to spice up his world a bit ! ( i apologize that some of these are so long, i get carried away so easily 😭 )

• QUITE THE CONTRARY to what some may believe, just because of the fact that thomas is a southern texan, doesn’t mean that he would assuredly reserve a hatred for black women, or any other person of color, for that matter. the awful memories of other children belittling him for his appearance traumatized him enough into activities of self-mutilation and donning a mask, so why would he wish to plague that exact pain onto someone else just due to the color of their skin? luda mae taught him well and raised an absolute gentleman, teaching him to love whomever would love him back, no matter the looks of them. the heart always comes first.

• WHEN THOMAS FIRST MET YOU after luda mae took you in for dinner and what was initially intended as a one night stay, he was mesmerized by your features, his eyes widening and his head shyly lowering when you chose to smile his way, fiddling with his fingers. he didn’t know how to react to attention from a woman for it was never an occurrence in his life, let alone from one who was so damn stunning. during his chapters as a child, black citizens rarely existed in the parts of texas he resided. sure, he's laid eyes on one or two on his way to school then, but other than that, it was quite a homogeneous town, which was what, to him, made you so unique from the beginning. when luda mae grasped notice of the way thomas looked at you from across the dining table during the majority of supper, that was when the option for you to stay a while came to be. she knew exactly what she was doing.

• SPEAKING OF, DO EXPECT TO RECIEVE PLENTY of staring sessions from him—unfolding from your curls, your eyes, your cinnamon-tinted lips, down your neck, your belly and until they finalized at the curves of your hips. he doesn't mean to do so in a creepy manner, but considering you learned that he wasn't much of a speaker, it was his only way at the time of how he could tell you that every inch of you was beautiful. you eventually came to accept and even tease him every now and then whenever you caught him, a lighthearted “see something you like, thomas?” purring past your teeth, causing his eyes to rush back towards your own and quickly look away with an embarrassed blush, to which you had to reassure him that it was okay to admire. he had grown more comfortable in doing it as time passed, so much so that even when you would still tease him about his habit, his new response was a subtle smirk and the nod of his head, as if admitting with boldness that he had his sights glued to you.

• OVERTIME, HIS PLAYFUL SIDE HAD BROADENED. you loved it, that you could bring out that side of himself; it meant that he put his full trust into you, a full sense of being comfortable when surrounded by your presence, and perhaps it meant that he was beginning to fall in love with you. ranging from little love pats from his hand on your plump backside whenever he strode past you from behind, to picking you up and carrying you around bridal style just to hear your giggle, to using his fingers to grope a small portion of your hair and gently pull, watching as the curl straightened and bounced back in place after he let go. ( with a mix of fascination and obsession with the softness of texture, he can do that for hours, too, whenever you let him play with your hair. )

• NOT EVERYONE WAS TOO FOND OF YOU, HOWEVER. there's never been many times in his life where thomas deliberately disobeyed his uncle charlie's mouthful of words. charlie merrily had his nephew attached to thinning clusters of silver strings and was in control of his every limb, but ever since you moved in, it was only inevitable that those strings would eventually snap when thomas chose to pull against them. uncle charlie, or as he liked to be addressed—sheriff hoyt, holds bigoted views and sometimes they'd spit past his yellowed teeth and underneath his breath in a whispered cuss whenever his eyes landed on you, but one day, thomas overheard it and wasted no time getting into his relative's face about it. no words were needed. thomas' body easily hovering his uncle's was enough to silence him, with luda mae having to be the one to gently push him back and calm him. ever since such an incident, hoyt had grown rather neutral about your presence, so as long as you contributed with cleaning getting done, respected the family and regarded him as the man of the household. of course, due to his stubborn nature, it didn’t stop the fact that he was still verbally rude towards you when thomas wasn’t around, telling you that you were nothing but a distraction for thomas or that thomas disliked you and your skintone, and though he swore up and down that he “ain’t interested in your kind,” you’ve caught him every now and then eyeing you with lustful forethoughts, thankful enough that he never gained the courage to act upon them.

• THOMAS ALWAYS ADVISED THAT YOU JUST IGNORE HIM ALTOGETHER. him altogether, tossing up a finger at his uncle and shaking his head, for none of it was true. simply viewing your skin gifted him a sensation of internal warmth; a feeling that even the texan sun herself couldn’t dream of comparing to. it appeared as though you’ve been kissed by her lights, dipped in soil and nature had granted you your beauty to endlessly bloom, and that’s exactly how he would describe you—the prettiest flower he’s ever witnessed. thomas never really took a great liking to sunlit summers due to having to work out in the fields until he was practically a puddle of melted flesh, but you made it so much better being at his side whenever he had to do so, and receiving those small glimpses of the way the heated outdoors glittered your skin to a deeper bronze made such adventures even more worth it.

©️ VAMPIREMILLK . do not plagiarize, distribute to other sites or translate any of my work without my permission .

[gwenfr]

The extreme Buddie shippers posts I have to see on my for you page 😬 🤢

I'm just so annoyed and angry, I blocked I don't know how many of them but no, like mold, they still appear 😔

Buddie shipper on 1 post : Tommy is not interesting as a LI because we know nothing about him !!!

Same Buddie shipper just after : write 1500 words of all that we know about Tommy just to show he's bad

Buddie shipper on 1 post : Tommy is just a cardboard copy of Eddie

Same Buddie shipper just after : write 1000 words about how Tommy is boring and annoying and Eddie is the best man to ever exist

Buddie shipper on 1 post : Tommy's negative attitude is not normal

Same Buddie shipper just after : say that this character and the actor who plays him should die and that every fan of him is a piece of shit who can choke

Buddie shipper on 1 post : Tommy's sexual innuendos with his boyfriend are disgusting

Same Buddie shipper just after : write, and tell you to read, 30k words fics of porn

Buddie shipper on 1 post : Tommy should never be excused for how he was racist and misogynistic 15 years ago

Same Buddie shipper just after : write 500 words about how this poc/female character was bad and should die just because she didn't allow buddie to become canon

Buddie shipper on 1 post : people want Tommy with Buck only because they fetishize them

Same Buddie shipper just after : disregard any evidence that Eddie is straight and write 1000 words of personal thoughts as to why he's gay and would be hot with Buck

Buddie shipper on 1 post : the writers change scripts and storyline ideas all the time and even if for now Tommy is here, he still can be gone in season 8

Same Buddie shipper just after : the original scripts and ideas are 100% canon, it can't be changed, it said that Eddie was maybe to be gay so he's for sure gay !

Buddie shipper on 1 post : if you don't accept that Eddie is gay then you're just being homophobic

Same Buddie shipper just after : use a homophobic slur to describe the ship they don't like and write 500 words about how a adult gay man sexuality is disgusting

Buddie shipper on 1 post : we should be able to ship in peace and not be harassed for our ship

Same Buddie shipper just after : yeah well the hacking and harassment were justified and will happen again because they need to learn who is the only otp

[ravi-is-my-beloved]

I'm so tired of being scared to speak out against Tommy and BuckTommy fans because of the chance they'll call me homophobic and paint me as part of the reason why they feel unsafe in this fandom, when these fans are the reason I, a gay brown man, feel unsafe in this fandom since they're so quick to forgive and defend a racist and misogynistic character for his past actions despite his victims never actually forgiving him on screen and his so-called change being non-existent.

Like please, for once in your life, actually think about how some of who don't like Tommy are people who are part of the marginalized groups he was being racist and misogynistic to and they have valid, non-homophobic reasons for disliking him. And while Tommy may be a fictional character, you defending him so easily and so quickly is harmful to actual real life people of color and women because it makes actual racist and misogynistic white men think they can easily be forgiven for their actions just because they're queer.

And you're right, there are anti Tommy/anti BuckTommy people who are actually homophobic and their homophobia is just as harmful to queer people as your dismissal of Tommy's racist and misogynistic actions. And you're right that we shouldn't let them get away with it.

So here's a little but necessary talk for all of my fellow anti Tommy/anti BuckTommy people (please note that these are all of the things I've personally seen while scrolling through the tags, so there's probably so much more harmful rhetoric than what I've listed):

Saying that Tommy is a predator and that he only wants Buck for sex is homophobic because gay men are so often painted as predators by homophobes and gay men have been villainized for their sexual behavior for so many years. Also all of you who joke about wanting Tommy to die in the upcoming season is also harmful to gay men because writers have a history of killing of queer characters and not giving them their happy endings and it's still a problem today.

But BuckTommy fans also all need to also take a step back and think about how your actions and words are hurting people too.

Think about how painting Eddie Diaz, a man of color, as this temperamental man is perpetuating harmful stereotypes against Mexican men. Think about how even jokingly (though I don't know how much of it is y'all actually joking) saying that Tommy deserves to have more scenes than Karen and Hen is perpetuating the lack of content/representation of black lesbians.

The call is coming from inside the house, but it's not just our house it's coming from. It's coming from yours too.

(NOTE: I do want to briefly speak out against how both sides of this fandom use the words/phrases "delusional" and "need someone to spell things out for them" in a way that's very harmful for people with mental illnesses and people with learning disabilities. I know these are things that are constantly being used on the internet, but they're still harmful and we should all strive to learn about how harmful we're (most unintentionally) being.)

[lover-of-mine]

Lady Whistledown.... OK on the parenting front. We all need to step into Narnia for a moment and forget he ever did cameos. Everything we know simply exists in the 911 universe as Canon. So you must understand that in this universe (thanks to Lous head canons he was paid for) he lost his mother at a young age and his father was a bully he ran from. And also the bachelor party was a way of showing Tommy as the mature one and carefully crafted to show that Eddie and Buck are just like play mates.

Tommy because he lost said mother so young will be the one to identify with Christopher and coax the young boy home. And if Christopher runs again because Eddie does something terrible. Well, our savior, Tommy will be the one to think you know maybe he went to Shannon's grave stone. He shall arrive and talk to the boy again. Because see clearly Buck and Eddie do not have the emotional capacity to accomplish this.

Also yes secretly Eddie is probably a little mad and jealous of Buck. You see, he did not realize when Tommy was courting him it was actually and option he could say yes, and now Buck stole him. But never fear Tommy will confess to Buck he was like 50th choice and because Buck loves Eddie so much he accepts being Eddies second choice to keep his family..

And your question on them realizing? Yes, after the hospital kiss, we were supposed to get more friend time of Eddie and Tommy. Tommy and Chris. All four at dinner together bonding. We got literally 2 scenes! Also, yes, they desperately wanted that dinner scene to contain the word boyfriend or love confession, so they didn't have to worry all summer.

Also deeply disappointed that the Hen Karen and Tommy scene was cut because that is probably where Hen on screen declares for the GA stop being mad at Tommy. See, I'm black and queer and my beautiful smart wife even loves Tommy. When I said "finally " to Karen, it was about both Tommy and Buck!!! Duh!!!!

So hopefully, that explains the "Christopher had three dads" PR department.

But also, when they were really, really mad at us, because we were so evil smart we were able to hack Lous personal Twitter and set him up as a racist. Maybe they should find a way of making sure they unmask us like the Scooby Doo villains we are to Oliver. Then Oliver would understand how toxic we really are.

But stepping out of Narnia. My impression on the Eddie front is that it's turning desperate in ways to make Tommy more relevant than he actually is to the story because it's the only way to get him more screen time than Karen. We all know that's never happening. They can't stand he will only exist in scenes with Buck if back and not on the forefront of the firefam. A family he definitely isn't a part of.

Hey, baby 🩷🩷 laughter doesn't begin to cover the sounds I was making while reading this. I will say I did not keep up with his cameos so this is all news to me so I'm loving it. The level of delusion. I'm speechless. So Tommy is the mature one and Buck is just there. Eddie being above Buck in the poli version is hysterical. Boy can't get a single win, huh? So they were expecting the Hen seal of approval and a place in Eddie's life and they got... That. That's nice. I feel better for the chaos reading this, ngl, I see you and feel the urge to pop some popcorn.

I mean, Taylor got a dinner with Eddie and Chris, even I thought the dude was gonna get something after 706. But I agree with your assessment, everyone knows the only way a love interest is gonna have a fighting chance is if they exist outside of Buck. And Tommy has possible threads that the show deliberately didn't pick because, hello, hello, he is not part of the family. God, I'm BEGGING for the show to give us something that explicitly contradicts as many of Lou's cameos as possible. (Does anyone have a bullet points list of those, because I legit lost track and I'm curious)

I maintain what I said when the hacking drama was happening tho, as your local buddie shipper computer scientist, I speak for all of us that if we were going to hack something, it would be the abc servers to get the karaoke scene. And, also, being a bad person never made a love interest leave the show, why would anyone bother making him look bad?

I'm still giggling at the Tommy/Eddie of it all. Like, if Tommy wanted Eddie and Eddie wanted Tommy and Buck is just a means to an end, and Tommy is a better parent, then what's the purpose of Buck in their heads? Does he just look pretty and gets fucked? This is madness. MADNESS.

[itsjustpoopeh]

I think the posts are pretty ignorant but also on par for what went for humor in 2010/14 (idk when those posts were posted but I remember millennial humor from early 2010s) I’m not super shocked bc he’s white at the end of the day but what is irritating is that it’s because of a ship that it’s being brought up. There’s a gleefulness that is coming from all of this like finally you have something tangible you can hate Lou for and now you can wrap it up in morals and w/e. If he was literally anyone else in the cast I don’t think we’d even know those posts exist. I blocked his name bc I personally don’t like those jokes but I do enjoy Tommy as a character so I’ll just separate them mentally but I always remember that racism is just something people like to use in ship wars and they’re genuinely happy when someone is racist bc then they won. It’s pathetic truly.

I'ma just reiterate that idgaf what 10 year old posts say. I care if someone is racist now. and I know who is being the actual current racists so fuck buddie shippers and their fake moral outrage

[sammyunhinged]

This fandom is so divided right now that it’s stressing me out.

Everyone is either pro- or anti-Tommy, pro- or anti-Bucktommy, or loves/hates Lou. It’s the only reason I was hoping bucktommy would break up in E10—I just didn’t want the shipping war to continue over hiatus. However, I’m a multishipper who enjoys bucktommy, especially all the amazing fan works people have been making, and has loved buddie for years. I would like for each side to take a moment to understand the other’s perspective. This is my likely futile attempt to get people to do so…

For the bucktommy shippers:

I need you to respect those who can’t forgive Tommy yet. Just because Hen and Chimney seem to have forgiven him, doesn’t mean that the marginalized communities that this character has been prejudiced against on screen need to forgive him too. He’s been misogynistic, racist, and homophobic (which yes likely stemmed from internalized homophobia but that doesn’t excuse his behavior).

I need you to realize that so far we’ve gotten nothing from canon except a couple kisses and few brief conversations. People are allowed to be upset with the writers for not giving us the potential this relationship has, or not be on board yet because canon hasn’t given them reason to, or simply just not love Tommy and therefore not love their relationship. Unlike Taylor who got lots of on screen development and backstory, Tommy hasn’t had that yet. It may take some time for people to get there, if they get there at all. It doesn’t mean you’re not allowed to ship it.

I also need you to be aware that a huge portion of that shipping side of the fandom consistently hates on Buddie. Plus, a significant number of people have just started watching the show and jumped into S7 without context and so so many—honestly the loudest portion of the shippers—are fetishizing gay men and are clearly just here to watch two hot white men kiss on screen. It’s disturbing and understandably turns people off to the shippers and often the ship. Fetishization of queerness is something fandom in general has been dealing with for decades and just because it’s 2024 doesn’t mean it’s still not happening. Just because you haven’t seen it also doesn’t mean it’s not happening. Also I’m not saying it doesn’t exist on the buddie side of fandom—it absolutely does—it’s just very loud with the bucktommy shippers atm.

I need some of y’all to understand that the hate for Lou at the moment is also understandable. There are some fat-phobic, misogynistic, and racist things still posted on his Instagram from about a decade ago and while this was a decade ago and people can change and grow, the fact that they’re still up says things about a person. Until they are acknowledged, disliking him and not supporting him is completely valid. The exact same goes for Ryan Guzman, but that’s a whole other conversation.

Edit: as of June 3, Lou Ferringo Jr. has proven, through a reply to someone calling him out for a racist Instagram post, that he is still racist and ableist. He replied to the person on Twitter with an ableist joke and then deleted it when he got shit for it.

For the buddie shippers:

There needs to be more respect the art of Multishipping in general, especially by younger fans lately. It’s the heart of fandom. Just because you don’t get bucktommy doesn’t mean others can’t see the potential for this relationship to be interesting plot-wise and great for Buck personally. Someone enjoying a ship you hate doesn’t mean they’re a horrible person. Also so many people love both ships and truly just want the best for Buck. These are the people that are so happy for him and want this relationship to be happy and healthy and meaningful for Buck.

But I also need you to be sympathetic toward those who jumped onboard with bucktommy because they’ve been burned by queerbait too often to ship a non-canon, bait-y ship like Buddie. No matter how much you love the show and love Buddie, you have to admit there’s been relationship baiting between them. I shipped destiel and merthur and all those things too. I get it. I need others to respect that the peak of queerbaiting was a very difficult time for fandom. It’s left some people unable to get on board.

I also need y’all to stop speculating about Lou and Oliver’s personal relationship and whether or not Oliver hates Lou. It’s strange, parasocial, and speculating about people’s lives is never appropriate. At least don’t do it online and in public forums. Talk with your friends, dm people, do whatever you want in private, but in public, let’s just leave them be. They are actors with a job. Let them do that job in peace.

I’ll probably get some flack but I consider myself to very middle of the road about all of this, a space I often find myself in fandoms. Maybe because I’ve been here so long. I so often just want people to chill out. It’s fandom. It’s supposed to be fun. Have fun!!

[hainethehero]

same anon as before: yes, I did read your whole post. a few times.

"I am aware he apologized." - ok I'm so glad you are! But you didn't make any mention whatsoever of that in your post. You could have said it as a quick parenthetical statement e.g. "In the past Ryan defended the use of racial slurs (although he later publicly apologised)".

your post leaves your readers with the impression that Ryan just made a bunch of racist statements, suffered zero repercussion, never apologised, and then, people can and will extrapolate from that - he probably continues to be racist to this day!

"I'm saying POCs have a right to still be upset about it because it shouldn't have been a thing in the first place???" - Great! my ask never said they don't!

"Where in my post did I say Ryan was irredeemable?" - where did I say in my ask that you said he's irredeemable??

You were very fair in pointing out that fandom has said other awful things about Ryan that are definitely not true.

But to completely leave out mention of his apology seemed deceptive and biased, as it's a crucially important fact that he actually listened to people around him, realised the weight of his actions, and publicly apologised. That makes all the difference in the situation.

That's why he still has fans on tumblr. They're not "excusing his racism", they're accepting his apology and trusting that he's learned, grown and changed.

Whereas, if we're going to discuss ljfr and tommy, I would argue ljfr has given some interview answers that sound uncomfortably like he's "excusing" tommy's racism, when he downplayed it as teasing/hazing (I forget the exact wording). Neutral question - did you happen to read his interview answers about tommy's attitude towards Hen? It's rather damning.

Also, the canon evidence you give of tommy having been redeemed is imo flimsy at best, and s7 could have done a lot more with tommy's limited screentime and dialogue to really show he's a different person to what he was in the past. I don't know what will happen in s8, I'm curious to see if tommy's characterisation changes or develops at all.

I just find it truly bizarre to act like it's logical and rational to defend and give the benefit of the doubt to a fictional character, which cannot be harmed or affected by hate, which does not exist outside a fictional story, or act other than according to what the script says, rather than do the same for a real life human being, who most assuredly CAN be harmed and affected by hate, who DOES exist and do things in the real world, who has an interior life unaffected by words in a script.

The point about Ryan has already been addressed. If fans have realized that he's apologized and have it in good faith that he's changed, then that's good. If fans are still hurt by his use of & defense of using slurs, they're allowed to be. That's not for you to decide.

Lou's interviews about Tommy's early times in the show were vague at best. The canon is CLEARLY insufficient but it's obvious why. Tommy's character wasn't really a mainstay. There were no deeper aspects to his character because he wasn't meant to stick around after s2. That's why there wasn't a whole ass redemption arc for him but rather a small montage. The point was to obviously show that both him and Hen and Chim reconciled their past and became good friends. If you & stans who think like you don't get that, then y'all are CHOOSING not to get it because it would be easier to have a reason to hate Tommy, rather than just hating him because he's with Buck. Honestly, it would be better if yall just admitted you hate him cos he's with Buck. No one would have a problem with that. But conflating issues and making them seem bigger than the show intended them to be to justify your hatred of Tommy just seems disingenuous.

If Tommy wasn't with Buck, y'all would NOT give a damn about this man's character I swear.

My whole original post was about toxic buddie stans virtue signaling and conflating the issue of racism as an excuse to justify their hatred of Tommy. And how those SAME stans are sending Lou death threats & hate to him- an actor who's just doing his job.

[graycious-tea]

I am so fucking done with this fandom rn like guys I can’t even express how disappointed and pissed I am right now. I don’t give a shit if you don’t like a storyline, I don’t give a shit if you don’t like a ship canon or not. I do not give a shit if you don’t like the character. You DO NOT attack the fucking actors who are playing a role and doing their goddamn job. You also do not speak for said actors. Yes I’m talking to you bitches who say Oliver clearly hates Lou. Ever use those critical thinking skills of yours and wonder, maybe he wasn’t feeling up for an interview that day?? People have shit days guys, some celebrities don’t enjoy interviews, they do not exist to please you. They have zero obligation to pander to you, absolutely zero. Yall see what you want to see and it’s so fucking obtuse and ignorant of you. Your hate over something so stupid has genuinely hurt people and their enjoyment of oh what was it again? That’s right, A FUCKING SHOW! It’s not that serious guys! Like oh my god! And don’t even get me started on the backwards homophobia and racism in these ship wars like holy fucking shit yall are insane. You are not racist for liking Tommy (a white man) over Eddie (a Latino man) in regards to a romantic relationship with Buck (who is also a white man). You are not homophobic for wanting Buck to be with Tommy and you sure as hell are not fetishizing mlm relationships! That one pisses me off so much, I do not love Tevan cus I want to see two hot guys make out, I love them because of how good Tommy is for Buck and how important their queer story is to tell. I love them because Tommy is gentle with Buck, calls him Evan as a way for Buck to allow himself to accept all aspects of himself not just the shield of “Buck”. I love them because it normalizes middle aged macho men being vulnerable; it normalizes men in their 30’s coming out! It does so many wonderful things! And all you can see is you and what you want. Now there are some buddie fans who are respectful so I’m not trying to like villainize all yall in one box but the BOB’s have me sooo upset and I just want to thank yall that are being respectful, I want to continue to like buddie because they are cute but it has become difficult. I normally don’t post content like this but oh my god this has just become so frustrating

Edit: this has been in my drafts for months, but after seeing all the shit talk after that deleted scene was posted I fully do not give a single fuck anymore I’m posting it

[purgetrooperfox]

Disco elysium! I've never played the game but I'm getting it via osmosis of your posts!

[fandom game] sksnddbfjd DE is rotting my brain all over again sorry about the sudden onslaught!!!

blorbo (favorite character, character I think about the most): right now? Jean is taking up the most real estate in my brain. historically? Kim Kitsuragi is my bestest friend

scrunkly (my “baby”, character that gives me cuteness aggression, character that is So Shaped): I honestly don't know that anyone in DE fits this definition of scrunkly. Harry's the closest I can get in that sometimes I want to crush him with my bare hands but not because he's cute, and he is my baby in that I have to teach him how the world works all the way down to the concept of money, and he is very shaped

scrimblo bimblo (underrated/underappreciated fave): Titus Hardie is near and dear to me. I'm a full-on apologist. dude did nothing wrong if you ignore his various crimes. Mañana as well, I just think he's neat

glup shitto (obscure fave, character that can appear in the background for 0.2 seconds and I won’t shut up about it for a week): SOONA. soona my absolute beloved. I'm replaying the game rn and just got back to her and aughhhhh pointing at the screen like that's my wife <3 I'm also very fond of Tommy l'Homme for his rhymes and soul

poor little meow meow (“problematic”/unpopular/controversial/otherwise pathetic fave): I knowwwwww she's corporate but I am fond of Joyce :/ she's not pathetic but like. loved her lessons in basic reality, loved her general attitude, loved her use of "baby" and "the eels hips". I'm also just not immune to older women

horse plinko (character I would torment for fun, for whatever reason): also Jean sorry babe. he's already so tormented, love to exacerbate an existing problem 😌

eeby deeby (character I would send to superhell): mmmm probably Charles Villedrouin. coalition bitch. or Gary. or Racist Lorry Driver

[eddiediazismyhusband]

ah yes a bucktommy shipper replying to my post telling me im wrong for calling out people who claim to multiship yet then shit all over buddie because “people are allowed to criticize/critique” (which….. literally what is there to critique anyway that has an actual basis for that critique and not just thinky veiled racism against ryan/eddie or some form of the god awful ‘eddie is straight’ argument)

meanwhile bucktommy shippers are the ones who are actively sending violent hate and death threats to people for pointing out the fact that tommy canonically has had zero positive portrayal on the show aside from…. kissing buck??? like he is constantly shown to be dismissive and disrespectful, he is always talking down to buck, trying to tell buck what he is or isn’t ready for, trying to tell buck what he should or shouldn’t feel, not to mention yk the whole racism and misogyny thing that STILL has had zero impact on him as a character (which just flushes hen and chimney’s character development down the toilet bc they just decided to ignore that so they could use him as a plot device)

yeah, you don’t get to speak on this one, bud.

(note: the reply is being deleted and i am blocking this person. do not try to track then down and send hate to them; be the bigger person. i always say the block and delete buttons exist for a reason and they are my friends, so i am going to use them.)

but whi knows maybe i’m just a

who doesn’t know what i’m talking about bc “fandom doesn’t have rules” 🙄

you’re right; this is make believe. so stop sending death threats to buddie shippers and harrassing the cast and crew of the show because your favorite racist isn’t getting a spotlight.

[cloudydiaz]

bucktommy shippers are writing paragraphs about the disgusting behavior of a toxic, ageist bully who spends time pretending to like something on the internet just to turn around and say psych for seemingly no reason, then go on to cruelly attack people for their preference in a show. that behavior isnt normal or okay. regardless of whatever fictional relationship you enjoy more, bullying people, making crude and backwards misogynistic comments like "find a husband" is not normal behavior. you guys are shooting yourselves in the foot by acting like children over a fake relationship on a tv show that probably will end in like max 5 years. it's embarrassing and immature but more than that it speaks to the way being chronically online has desensitized people to this kind of behavior. these are real people being harassed, who have been being harassed for years now. if you dont understand why that's wrong, you should take a step back from the internet and reconnect with the real world and ask yourself why does this matter more than being respectful and kind?

kinda crazy yall r playing the victim like yall didn’t call mexicans slurs, create eddie bashing fics, want eddie to die so two white men can raise chris, come into my mentions on twitter throwing a tantrum because i called tommy a racist fuck. oh and then the best part is, yall LOVE using ryan’s racism as a gotch ya moment when people want to discuss a characters actions on a tv show.

a bucktommy shipper wanted to do the same thing and be a mole for an anti bucktommy gc not that long ago, but it’s a problem when someone else does it right?

trolls are a common thing on the internet, that’s why blocking and muting exist. now gtfo of my ask and go cry a river somewhere else.