#Robin Steph Arc

[mzminola]

If we find some other way for War Games to kick off (or just...not have that arc, idk), I think my ideal end for the Robin!Steph arc would be for her, not to fuck up and get fired, but decide, on her own, that she prefers being Spoiler.

What she wanted was training, respect, and (ugh, DC, why?) to get back at Tim for the misconception that he cheated on her. The first two don't require being Robin (Bruce gave her a smidge during the Brentwood arc) and the third can be resolved through communication, or if we really want some interesting character growth, Steph confronting her own vindictiveness, wrestling with whether she cares more about Getting Revenge or Helping People.

Actually, that could tie back into her intro and subsequent early appearances pretty well? She became Spoiler to get back at her dad, but later shows up solving crimes in the suburbs pointing out that the Bats tend to focus on the main island city. She also wants to impress her crush, but moves away from that impetus over time. So deciding, "I built Spoiler into something more than revenge, and I want to keep building Spoiler, not get mired back in revenge as Robin," would be some growth.

So yeah, wrap up with Robin!Steph arc by her showing up at the Batcave in her Spoiler suit, mirroring how she first showed up in her handmade Robin suit, and tell Bruce she wants to split time patrolling the suburbs like she used to, and patrolling the city with him for more training. That being Robin was an honor, but she's Spoiler, and she's proud to be Spoiler.

This could be a kick in the pants for Bruce; by reclaiming Spoiler and laying down new terms of partnership, letting go of her grudge against Tim, she's acting more mature than Bruce (who it's implied made her Robin in an attempt to lure Tim back). Maybe this sparks him to reassess how he's handling the Jack situation and Tim's absence, reaching out in their civilian lives or otherwise doing something direct to maintain that important relationship.

[horsechestnut]

The dichotomy between Jason dying because he disobeyed Batman and Stephanie dying specifically because she was trying to follow his rules is so good, and yet so under utilized.

[welcometogrouchland]

Disgustingly messy and crusty sketch dump but I couldn't get my own terrible theory out of my head and ended up making a bunch of sketches about it. Also at the end a bonus dickbats and Damian doodle bc I was reading an issue of their Batman and Robin run (IDs in Alt)

[lemonlimestar]

stephanie brown & “caesar on a tv screen” by the last dinner party

[tastycitrus]

there's an alternate timeline where the new 52 reboot kept all three batgirls but retconned all the robins except for dick, who went back to being robin with nightwing banned from being mentioned at all

[leoleolovesdc]

OK HEAR ME OUT. HEAR. ME. OUT.

AU where Steph and Jason joined forces to beat the shit outta Tim on titans tower:

Steph was also dead (according to a retcom that I heavily dislike she was always alive, but still) and returned to comics roughly two years after Jason, so since comics timelines are disproportionate from IRL time we technically could mashup those two “back from the grave” events on around the same time and have a situation where Jason hears from Talia that after Tim Drake there was another Robin that died and he is intrigued. He does a little digging and finds out that Stephanie is in fact alive and hiding. In this AU Steph may either have actually died and been somehow ressurected, been in a coma for a while or just have had her death faked by Leslie without her consent, regardless, Jason finds Stephanie who is also mad to learn she was forgotten by the people she thought had brought her in and after hearing that her predecessor’s plans include ruining Black Mask’s empire, forcing Bruce to confront his code and beating the shit out of Tim she is all in.

[adjit]

So what really happened in Red Robin between Dick and Tim?

Because I am constantly seeing misrepresentations of it, I want to talk about the actual events of Red Robin, and Dick and Tim's relationship during it. It's a favorite storyline for fandom to use and riff on, and so for people who haven't read the source, it's hard to know what is canon and what is fanon.

Honestly? It might be easier to just go read the issues. The majority of what I'm going to discuss here all happens in the first 4 issues of Red Robin (though I cover some stuff through the first 12), and I enjoyed that entire run, but if you'd rather hear a random internet user tell ya their take on it, read on.

This is going under a cut because it's long. But TLDR? Dick is not the bad guy in this situation. No one is the bad guy in this situation. If we had to name one... poor coping skills? And though they do fight, they ultimately reconcile because Tim and Dick are brothers who love each other.

Damian

First things first, let's talk about Damian. Did Dick give Robin to Damian without even informing Tim, so Tim had to find out by Damian showing up in the Robin costume? Not exactly.

So, some technicalities. Damian had worn the costume before the infamous Batcave scene. In Batman: Battle for the Cowl #3, he's given it by Alfred and goes with Squire to save Tim. So, not only has Damian worn the costume before, Tim has seen it.

However, arguably this is also before Dick has accepted the mantle, so the scene in the cave is still notable as it is Dick specifically informing Tim that Damian will be his Robin. And Tim had also worn the costume out for a one-time rescue months before he officially became Robin (also enabled by Alfred), so I'm still of the idea that the cave scene is The Scene about the Robin mantle being passed down.

That being the case, I'm still going to defend Dick anyway.

Firstly, he told Tim before Damian showed up. But it's true that he didn't give Tim a choice, and that Tim was NOT okay with it.

Damian shows up and talks some shit, Tim punches him in the face, and then storms out.

Overall, it went pretty terribly! But I'm of the opinion that there was no good ending here. Damian needs the family connection that the mantle of Robin would give him in order to feel accepted, not to mention the close supervision that the duo of Batman and Robin would provide. But Tim is extremely attached to Robin 14 years after this comic and he still hasn't given it up and would never be happy being asked to give it up, especially when he's already lost so many things. One of them was going to end up unhappy. (Fwiw, I'm of the opinion that Dick is right, and Damian needs Robin a lot more than Tim does. But that doesn't mean that that decision wouldn't hurt Tim, too.)

Arguably, Dick could have been a bit nicer when doing this, but let's be fair to Dick: his father figure has just died, and suddenly he has to be Batman, and he now has a young child he is partly in charge of. That's a lot to be dumped on his lap, not to mention that he didn't want to be Batman (he initially refused despite Bruce's wishes, and only took it on after basically being forced to after Jason tried to take on the mantle, killed a bunch of people, and injured both Damian and Tim), and said child is a highly traumatized child who is still in the process of basically cult de-conditioning! So Tim could also be asked to be a lot more understanding than he's being. But Tim's too wrapped up in his own grief to see that. Just like Dick's too wrapped up in his own issues to properly deal with Tim.

He has a lot of shit going on and he can't juggle it all. Tim is coping incredibly poorly with his own circumstances. They clash and neither comes out happy. It sucked. But to say that Dick is the bad guy here... He made the best decision he could when given no right options. I do think that he made a mistake here in his approach, but to call his entire relationship with Tim into question due to it... doesn't make as much sense to me (especially because of the events which follow!)

Self-isolation

So, did everyone abandon Tim? Did his family forget him and leave him out to dry?

Absolutely not. The opposite, really. Tim pushed everyone away, despite them repeatedly reaching out to him.

One thing to note about Tim here is that he is self-isolating extremely hard. Even after their argument about Robin, Dick keeps trying to reach out to Tim. Tim pushes him away. Tim pushes everyone away. And this is not even subtle- it's shown in the text very clearly.

Multiple people try to talk to Tim, and Tim absolutely refuses them.

Tim is pissed even at the idea that Dick might be checking up on him. And Tim and Steph's relationship is super rocky right now, and he takes her concern for him poorly. Part of that can be attributed to an ongoing fight between them, a lack of trust implicit there, but combined with everything else it's also clearly Tim pushing away all of his lifelines.

Cassie also comes to try to check on him- after he dodges her attempts to contact him, she flies all the way to Gotham. But when told that a man who everyone knows as dead, and whose body was recovered and buried, is still alive, she doesn't believe him. (And considering Cassie has already dealt with Tim's grief regarding Conner and his suuuuuper rational reaction there, one might understand even more why she doesn't believe him right away.) And Tim immediately pushes her away for it. He doesn't try to give her any explanation, doesn't respond to her concern, he just immediately cuts the cord.

(And just a note that when Cassie doesn't know who else to turn to about Tim? She turns to Dick! Because she knows how important Dick is to Tim. And yes, right now Tim is mad at Dick and resents that Steph and Cassie go to him, but that doesn't change the fact that when people think about caring for Tim, Dick is the first person they go to.)

Dick and Tim's argument

Did Dick refuse to believe Tim, despite Tim having evidence, call him crazy and threaten to throw him in Arkham? NOPE.

That is entirely fanon. And one of the more pervasive, and annoying, misrepresentations of Dick's character, as it causes people to talk shit about him.

So. What actually happened? (We're getting into full pages here because I am not letting anyone get this conversation twisted.)

Dick shows up and speaks to Tim compassionately, though decisively, about the fact that Bruce is dead and they need to learn to move on and deal with that grief in a healthy manner. He then offers help to Tim once more, and is rejected, Tim instead opting to start a fight in classic emotionally-repressed Bat tradition. (Which, sidenote, do you think they do this just so that panels during a long conversation are more dynamic instead of two people standing there talking to each other?)

Tim pleads his case to Dick....to an extent. Notice, however, that he never mentions that he has any reason to believe what he does. Doesn't even try to convince Dick to believe him, really. Just insists that he's right after he makes a good case on why he does in fact sound crazy.

And then, Dick offers help. He suggests that Tim talk to a therapist. This person is, notably, NOT ARKHAM ASYLUM. Isn't even secretly Arkham, because they're in Metropolis!

And, frankly, the idea that someone suggesting therapy to his brother who is dealing poorly with grief has been equated to "calling him crazy and trying to get him thrown in jail/committed" is absolutely bonkers to me. I know that it's more likely that someone escalated the stakes for drama in their fanfic or something, and for some reason that's the version that circulated, but from here to there is a LEAP. And for people to claim it's canon is frustrating to say the least.

And finally. Tim tells Dick to let him leave. And Dick does. Dick stops trying to stop Tim, and lets him go. He trusts in Tim enough to let him do what he thinks is right, even if Dick himself disagrees. He does it because Tim asks him to.

Is it a mistake? Maybe. Does it make Tim forgive Dick for choosing Damian as his Robin? Definitely not. But it's very clearly not because he doesn't care, not because he's too busy to pay attention to Tim. It's an act of respect, of treating Tim as an equal who is capable of making his own decisions. In that way, it's showing his trust to Tim.

I have an entirely separate post on the subject of why Dick not believing Tim is narratively supported to make later (EDIT: posted here!), so I'm gonna go on a little Tim rant here instead. Because this post isn't long enough.

During this time, Tim is consistently begging for people to believe in him, while also refusing to play all his cards. The picture that started his hunch is never brought up. Frankly, I'm not sure that even if he did show it to everyone that people would believe him, but I think it's telling that he doesn't.

First, I kind of see it as Tim engaging in a "relationship test". They're the kind of thing that only people who are deeply insecure or in a bad place think to do- if I stop talking to all my friends, how long will it take people to notice? Who's going to notice that I'm upset without me saying anything, who really cares about me? If I share an insane theory, who is going to believe me point blank?

They're the kind of thing that is....not healthy in any way, shape, or form, and really aren't fair to the people you're testing. Sure, someone "passing" the test may show that they care for you (and, ultimately, the only person who believes Tim without reservation is Kon, once he comes back- and that unquestioning belief and loyalty is meaningful), but "failing" the test doesn't mean that they don't care. And they're ultimately a sort of self-sabotage, because you know that most people are going to fail because you know the test is unfair.

And that's exactly what it is: self-sabotage. As previously mentioned, Tim is massively self-isolating during this part of the arc, and pushing people away because they "don't believe him" is just one facet of that self-isolation. But he also doesn't try to get them to believe him, doesn't even give them that chance, because his ultimate goal is not to actually get anyone on his side, but to push everyone away. That's not to say that he secretly doesn't want people to believe him, but... he's acting mostly irrationally. He wants people to believe him but won't let them close enough to meaningfully give them the chance to do so.

Second, as much as Tim says that he's positive he's right and he's going to prove it, he's straight up lying, and he's actually not that sure at this point. And he's probably terrified that if he does show his proof, that someone will see it and still not believe him, and he'll have to face the fact that his only piece of evidence is extremely flimsy and that his conviction is based much more on grief than it actually is on logic.

So. Yeah, no one believes him. And that does suck, and it's a hit to him. But he didn't exactly give them a chance. He's preemptively cutting people out before they have a chance to hurt him or point out where he's wrong.

Tim is still a pitiable character here. He's a disaster and a wet puddle of a man who is living through the worst time in his entire life. But he's not a poor victim, scorned by his family and the world at large, thought to be crazy for no reason at all! Instead, he's (much more interestingly, imo) a kid dealing with his grief incredibly poorly, self-isolating and refusing every outstretched hand, clinging desperately on to his last hope that maybe his world hasn't changed as much as it seems like it has.

Blackest Night

Blackest Night is a huge crossover event that happened during the Red Robin run; technically speaking, you can skip it without missing anything in the plot of Red Robin, but it does have some good moments that highlight Tim's mental state and his relationship with Dick.

So, Tim leaves Gotham, but when Black Lantern Rings start bringing a bunch of people back from the dead in the form of zombies, including Dick and Tim's parents, Dick calls him back to Gotham. And Tim, looking at the decaying zombie corpse of his parents, is also arguing that he can save them.

When faced with an evil zombie that is trying to kill him, Tim still says "I can still fix this, I can save him". And Dick, as compassionately as ever, tries to talk sense into him. It's the exact same situation as with Bruce, but this time Tim is absolutely wrong.

And with this situation as a parallel, I think it's a lot clearer how unreasonable Tim's mental state is. He might seem like he's just a misunderstood genius in Bruce's case because he happened to be right, but the fact of the matter is, he's not thinking clearly. And he'd cling onto the same hopes even when he's wrong. With Bruce's case, he got lucky.

Also! This panel.

Even with all of this between them, Tim still answers Dick that he trusts him, with no hesitation. Of course.

Reconciliation

So, does Tim come back to Gotham, replaced and forgotten, and become isolated from the rest of the Bats?

Nope! There is, actually, a reconciliation of sorts between Dick and Tim. Admittedly, there is no scene where Dick outright says he's sorry, and Tim says he forgives him. But in my reading, there are interactions that serve a similar purpose, if you read between the lines.

After Tim finds proof of what's been going on with Batman, had a whole thing with the League and the Council of Spiders, and blown up a bunch of League bases, he returns to Gotham where Ra's is enacting a plan to get revenge for Tim acting against him: destroying Batman's legacy. Everything he loved and everything he built is in the crosshairs.

And when he's trying to figure out what Ra's is planning, he meets back up with Dick.

Tim is spewing crazy theories, and with absolutely no proof or explanation, he turns to Dick and asks him to trust him. And this time, Dick tells him, Of course. The fraction between them that preceded Tim's departure from Gotham is repeated, and this time Dick tells Tim he trusts him, and asks what he can do to help.

(This time, Dick does call Tim crazy, while he's muttering to himself. And then he chooses to trust him anyway.)

Granted, this is not an actual apology. But it feels like a second chance. One more bid for connection, and this time Dick meets him in the middle and reciprocates.

Anyway, since when do siblings actually verbally say "I'm sorry"?

And then... quick summary, in case you want the real details for the following events:

Ra's sends assassins after all the people Batman cares about to distract Tim from the fact that he's getting Hush (who is impersonating Bruce Wayne) to sign over Wayne Enterprises. But Tim wins because he finally stops self-isolating and gets his many friends to protect everyone who needs protecting while Tim faces off against Ra's. (Which is, ultimately, a climax of his character arc for this story- reaching out and trusting people again. Team up guy back in action!)

Tim's able to keep Ra's busy long enough that Lucius can file the paperwork to make him the majority shareholder of Wayne Enterprises, thwarting Ra's' attempt at a takeover. However, Ra's wins the fight, and Tim ends up plummeting to his death out of the window.

And then Dick catches him.

Later, Dick asks Tim how he could have planned for Dick to be there to save him.

And Tim says "You're my brother, Dick. You'll always be there for me."

This scene has been talked to death, because most people are at a consensus: this is a fucking lie. Tim didn't know that Dick would be there, and was fully prepared to die.

However! I'm not here to rehash this. I just want to add my take. It's a lie, but. Tim is a good liar. And every good liar knows that the best lies have a grain of truth in them.

I do believe that Tim didn't know that anyone would be there to save him. But I also believe that he fully means what he says here, that it's not just to placate Dick. Tim is telling Dick that he trusts him, that he believes in him, that they're brothers. It's forgiveness.

I could keep citing all the places where Tim shows an unconditional belief in Dick that happen after this arc, to prove that their relationship is truly mended after this and that they don't continue fighting, but that happens often enough that you could just read any comic including Tim and Dick and I'm sure Tim will say some fanboy shit eventually.

So, that's it! If you take nothing else from this post, take this at least: Tim and Dick LOVE each other, and they might fight, but they forgive each other, and if you try to talk shit about Dick Grayson, Tim will be one of the first to fight you, guaranteed. Suffice to say:

[mattiebluebird]

Case fic AU of Duke's training year centered around his identity as Signal (big hero, works for/with Batman, above everyone else) vs. Lark (friendly neighborhood hero, fights for the little guy, does things his own way) told as he & the WAR crew investigate a strange new drug that gives people meta abilities, with several B-plots of the other Robins becoming heroes in their own right. Is that anything.

[bobbinalong]

i wish i was a batman fan, he gets so many comics that every once in a while, something HAS to be good. alas lmao.

[robjn93]

from mother to daughter.

steph is braiding her daughter’s hair, humming the music coming from the radio and suddenly she is 9 again, and her mother is gently brushing her hair, she is loved and now she is giving that love to another daughter who will cherish it and give it to her own. her daughter's blonde hair tangled on her finger and she is trying as hard as she can to make it not too painful, shes got new hair ties and colorful hairpins. her daughter is gonna look so pretty.

steph is treating her child’s bruises after she fell from the bike, her first time getting hurt, and suddenly she is 5 again, her mother is putting bandages on her arm, arthur was piss drunk that night. she is kissing every bruise and suddenly it doesnt hurt anymore. crystal sang a melody every time steph got hurt as the ice pack brushed over the scratched skin, making her jolt. it felt nice after a few minutes, almost like surviving the sting was a reward. like a badge of honor. but her daughter was not to endure that. she already knew she was strong. she didnt need to prove it like her mother did.

steph is scolding her daughter after getting in trouble, trying to help a friend, and she can see a pout on her face because she knows she is just as disappointed as steph is, and suddenly she is 15 again and her mother just found her spoiler costume and she wants to be mad but she cant. she gets it. she gets her desire to prove herself but she knows she can do better. she just cant figure out what would that be. how could she be better than being herself? than be a hero?

steph is taking her daughter to visit her mother and crystal sees it as clear as water that theres no trait of dean on her granddaughter’s face, that she is all steph, the same smile, the same eyes but fewer bruises on her body. steph’s daughter was safe, better than steph had ever been. but she never blamed crystal, tho the latter blamed herself plenty. because as much pain and bruise to share, there were many more braids to make, bruises to mend. so much love yet left to be taught.

from mother to daughter.

[teleportationmagic]

read batgirl 2009

I have read Batgirl 2009. I have reread Batgirl 2009. I am currently on my third reread of Batgirl 2009. It's very dear to me as the book that essentially got me to actually check out comics more broadly, and it occupies wayyyyyy too much of my brainspace at any given moment - hell I've written fic about it!

However, while it makes motions towards being a coming of age story - the biggest way probably being in settling Steph's relationships with the Batfamily more broadly and Tim and Bruce more specifically, there's not really as much exploration of Steph as I'd like - for example, where does she go after this? What does she want now? Who does she want to be? Batgirl for her is well, seeing something through. It's a promise she can't leave unfulfilled, and a chance to be more than what she was, but that's not... that's not an identity. That's a chance to explore what her identity could be, unhindered by other's expectations of her failure and her own desperation. And I think while it was going in that direction and might have gotten there if it had more time, it just... couldn't, cause the universe went boom. So we get to see threads of it, like her lean into hope as a part of her motivation, but there's just not enough.

(Every day I weep that we couldn't get to the angstier year 3. Ah well)

[horsechestnut]

Bruce leaving Steph in a house with her abuser and the fucking Riddler for at least two months because he was using her as a spy to get them on a bigger bust vs. Dinah breaking down the door the second she finds out Steph is in an unsafe environment sure is something.

[welcometogrouchland]

Been gone for a hot second helping out over at the DCtwt gatcha for gaza event (first three pieces! Extremely proud of that aquaman) so haven't had much time to do art outside that but here's some crumbs!

[starlooove]

“There is no fanfic on Stephs treatment I have checked” that’s like the whole point.

[anthyies]

reading steph batgirl and red robin concurrently to experience peak emotional whiplash. true to the experience of reading dc in 2009

[variablejabberwocky]

ya'know if jason really wants to be petty he should start a Dead Robins Club

tim's the only one not allowed in