#Or maybe not chaotic neutral

[sleepdeprivedvigilante]

I just had the thought of what if I make my Divorced (But they get along) parents fight in purpose for amusement?

Maybe it'd be funny.

Then I thought the custody battle would be a bitch. Especially for my younger sister.

So I take the thought back.

[bluewolfangel01]

Lucifer: "Mc what are you doing?"

Mc: "nothing."

Lucifer: ...

Lucifer: "Beel, explain."

Beel: "They asked to sit on my shoulders to be tall."

Lucifer: "I see now. And why is it that you wanted to be tall Mc?"

Mc: "A strange innate desire for height and the high ground."

Lucifer: 😑

Lucifer: "And you agreed to this why Beel?"

Beel: "They made me food." 🥺

[shiurkoma]

Take: chaotic evil Yehonatan, in which he knew David is meant to replace him and his father from the very start.

TLDR: Yehonatan is as, if not more likely to be the abuser in their relationship because it is plain unfair to overlook how humongous their power gap is, and he is abused enough to be at least a little unhinged in his noggins.

Warning: dead dove do not eat. Im going to entertain an idea where Yehonatan is definitely not a good person. If you have a problem with that, or have issue reading fictional underage abuse and emotional manipulation, please stop reading. Finally, nothing about this is meant to be serious interpretation of the original text, it's all plain headcanoning for fanfiction.

(For the record, i seriously do not consider David (even close to being) a morally good individual in any possible sense of the word. It doesn't make any of this ok tho)

Some fanfics i've seen paint the davinatan ship as a manipulative one, with david being the seducter that manipulates Yehonatan into simping for him, only to discard him after David achieved his goals. Even outside of fanfictions, i know of people who view Yehonatan as a tragic victim. While i appreciate David's more malicious side being acknowledged, and agree with it more than depicting them simply and benignly loving eachother(tho i appreciate that too), I can't help but think how both protrayal down plays just how utterly creepy yehonatan's part in the relationship is.

Like, Yehonatan, a middle aged man with wives and kids, went ahead and basically stripped in front of a teen the first night they met then gave him some really personal and valuable gifts. If thats not a red flag i don't know what is.

Yehonatan is someone you do not want to cross, maybe even more so than Saul.

It is easy to forget that, holding the title of eldest son and legal heir to the throne comes with immense pressure, responsibility and danger, and dealing with all that takes more than just a thick backbone. With a deranged father as king, people around him are constantly plotting to take the throne for themselves. All bets are off in the war for the throne, even if Yehonatan doesn't actually want to be king, his competitors (which includes but not limited to his entire family) wouldn't rest until he is dead. He isn't in a position where he can just back off: it isn't unheard of that princes and kings renounce their positions, retire, and end up getting assassinated or executed anyway. Because king or not, they are still legitimate heirs to the throne and therefore a potential threat.

Basically, Yehonatan lives in a situation where he simply cannot afford to show weakness or hesitation, not to his subordinates, not to his brothers, not to his father, not to anyone. What doesn't kill you makes you dangerous, and Yehonatan is deadly in that sense.

(But its not to say all that didn't take a toll on his mental wellbeing. Yehonatan has no business being mentally ok. He watched his father ascend to the throne, watched as Saul sunk further towards insanity, and had to endure his often psychotic abuse for years. I don't believe one bit that he isn't depressed and at least a little messed up, especially in a time where mental illnesses aren't even acknowledged yet.)

To sum it up, as a weathered crown prince, Yehonatan would logically be a person who is reasonably paranoid, moderately ruthless, extremely strong willed and more than competently intuitive about the motives and intentions of people around him.

David on the other hand (at the start of their relationship anyway) had no prior experience mingling with politics, no ties in the palace, was never regarded with importance by his father or brothers (meaning he had zero exposure and no one ever invested in him), young and inexperienced (meaning vulnerable to manipulation), stands no chance against Yehonatan if he were to play mind games on him.

David could pull an Esther on Yehonatan. But keep in mind Esther and a lot of other femme fatal spies in history had ties that helped pull strings from the outside, they are often not the master mind either. David had himself, and practically nothing else.

This is why Yehonatan helping him matters so much. Useing weak willed and easily manipulated individuals only works for you if you are already a powerful dictator. If you have absolutely nothing you need powerful allys.

The most straightforward option for dark Yehonatan is just to kick the creep element up ten notchs. David tries to seduce Yehonatan, then immediately realises he bit off more than he could chew: he is just too possessive to be controlled. Yehonatan in this scenario probably somewhat resembles that purple creep from Tokyo ghoul, entertaining while the shock value lasts, but after that it gets pretty shallow. I hate this approach tbh.

Or, him seeing David that day was Yehonatan's last straw(what i doodled basically). He stops giving a sh*t about everything, and thought since he is so "in love" he might as well groom and sodomize David. Its a petty way of getting back at God for making him fall for the boy, and for making his life miserable in general.

He uses his charms and presents himself as a saintly figure to appeal to David's more religious side, then proceeds to not only make sure that David is emotionally dependent on him(i won't elaborate how but its easier than you think), but also plans to make it so that if he dies it will f*ck David in the head. He enjoys this, because for once in his life he feels a "real" sense of control, albeit a twisted and perverted one.

(Maybe he will feel shame and regret eventually, but thats another talk for another day.)

I'll borrow my friend's comment to sum up the take: "a broken abused individual perpetuating a cycle of abuse to an ambitions sociopathic twink, each making the other worse just through being together." Another reason i prefer this version of dark Yehonatan is cuz it restores some agency Yehonatan desperate lacks.

Strayed quite far from his canon image with my shameless slandering but yeah that's about it. For now. Might explore David's pov in this later.

[mastercrownmonday]

i hate, hate, HATE my stupid, goody-two-shoes, tree-hugging baby cousin!!!!

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

???

Both WWX and LWJ are highly ideal characters, so there wouldn’t be too much dispute on their moral standing. They’re perfect as the protagonists.  - MXTX's end notes (chapter 113.5), EXR translation

I'm not one to say word of the author is word of god – I definitely lean more towards Death of the Author in that regard. But an important part of that is that you look at what happens in the novel – and, from WWX's actions in the novel, it's pretty clear that this is supposed to be the case. Even if you don't agree with that statement, there's no doubt that acting on his morals is something extremely important to him, and those morals lean heavily towards doing the "right thing" in his perception. That is not "neutral".

Examples of this: WWX was not killed for being the only person to do the right thing and defend the Wen remnants for people to say he's chaotic neutral. He didn't risk his life alongside LWJ to protect both innocents and people who participated in the first Siege, during the second. He didn't go to save Su She from the Waterborne Abyss (at no personal gain), defend Mianmian (at no personal gain), join LWJ in going wherever the chaos is post-canon when they night hunt (despite preferring more difficult, exiting ones – though of course, spending time with LWJ plays a very large role in here too!), etc and do so many other things in the novel, for people to say he's chaotic neutral. He doesn't say this for no reason:

"But, let the self judge the right and the wrong, let others decide to praise or to blame, let gains and losses remain uncommented on." - Chapter 75, EXR

He says it because it's an important part of his philosophy (it fits with his actions, and, from a writing standpoint, would you include that with no indication of a lie otherwise?)! Because judging the right thing, and doing the right thing, is important to him! That's not chaotic neutral!

"He does whatever he wants pretty consistently" well... yes? That is how decisions work? Morality isn't determined by whether you act independently or adhere to other rules – that's where chaotic and lawful come in, but not evil or good. If you do what you want to do, and what you want to do is help people, that's not neutral! It's good!

There's more to the tags, but I won't go into that right now since it's a different point. I would like to say that are multiple posts talking about how WWX doesn't just act disrespectfully/arrogantly for no reason (he knew he'd have to "keep his status in mind" if he wanted to run wild, he was hardly the only person being rowdy and breaking rules in Gusu yet nobody says the same about people like NHS or JC who did that too, post-SSC he was playing up these traits so nobody would look deeper into his reasons for things, ie not having his GC, etc. He enjoys running wild, yes, but it doesn't mean he does it mindlessly!), such as the one I just reblogged, because that's a point that needs adressing here as well. Please don't try to search up these tags and harrass anybody, as it only leads to harm – I just really, really disagree with this take. The WWX of MDZS is neither stupid nor chaotic neutral...

[campspawn]

yknow i know a lot of people are upset about cassandra dying which i get. BUT. i can’t fucking wait for kristen’s ‘my deity is dead i’m a cleric and i’ve killed TWO gods in rapid fire succession what am i gonna fucking do’ arc because i think it’s gonna be the best kristen arc yet

[tanukitsuneko-suki]

you mean to tell me if sento didn’t save banjo unconditionally and made him hope and trust and love humanity once again after the world has discriminated against and forsaken him there’s a very real possibility that stalk would have been able to corrupt him to the dark side and make him want to help destroy earth once and for all ??

[nonbinary-androids]

One of the greatest things in the earlier books; the way that Call is lowkey kind of an unreliable narrator, particularly when it comes to his perception of himself and how that relates to others. This is often tragic, but sometimes it's really funny, mainly when he's like "oooh I'm so evil. not like aaron who is beautiful and kind and good and never ever selfish." and meanwhile Aaron is like... giving Celia a death stare and debating taking Alastair up on his offer to run away from all things magic

[agalychnisspranneusroseus]

Been thinking about amphibia character alignments and. I think hop pop is genuinely neutral evil

[presidentdisastraofgallifrey]

Someone needs to tell me I should work on one of the long fics I already have and NOT, under any circumstances, start a new one full of contrived ways for Leela, Romana, and Sarah to travel the universe

[thegreatyin]

if i had a nickel for every time the bandaged scoundrel encountered a situation involving the discordance in which they chose a lady they've had beef with for ages over their own coworker, thus saving her life at the cost of their own goals and interests, i'd have two nickels.

which isn't a lot, but it's funny that it's happened pretty much twice in a row.

[redo-rewind-if]

A small line from someone who is quickly becoming one of my favorite side characters! You can only meet them in certain routes, but I'm considering having them make an appearance later on in the story as well.

[tttrashmouth]

GRIZZLYS OH NO AT THE END

[book-girl4evaaa]

What alignment do you think I am?

[venombloom]

So with me finishing Veilguard one thing I've thought about is the possibility of Daisy reconciling with her sisters. Because ultimately while she led the Veilguard and fought the Gods because it was a dirty job and someone needed to do it (and it was a contract), I do think to some degree she saw it as a chance for redemption on various fronts be it for fucking up with the Crows, making up for the mistakes she made along the way, etc. Yet I'm also compelled to have that not be a case; that that's a loose end that doesn't get tied up. Perhaps for the theme of sometimes we can apologize and try to make things right but despite good intentions we don't get the forgiveness or have things made right.

A lot of Daisy's story is learning to live with the mistakes we make and moving forward; because we as people are gonna fuck up but it's not always the end all be all. We can do better, be better.

[neriyon]

Half expected to get Lawful Good for Hawu'li, but nope, this one fits a lot better~ I'm very much of the mind that he used to tell some of the hearers trying to deny help to certain people (*cough* that one early game quest) to fuck right off.

Link to the test

Thanks for the tag @mimble-sparklepudding !

Tagging @ffxivlilmeowmeow, @stalwart-spirit, @zylphiacrowley, @sunnythanalan, @gobbie-boom, @tialinffxiv and whoever else wants to do it! (Also the traditional "don't feel obliged to do it even if you are tagged" disclamer)