#Nightwing meta

[bluetrapeze]

Perfectly Flawed, Richard John Grayson

Thinking about Dick Grayson's relationship with being, in his own eyes, perfect.

He grew up with parents who were trapeze artists, one's who didn't use a safety net. They couldn't make a mistake, it was never an option.

He matured with Bruce Wayne, who's physically and mentally in peak human condition. He was the boy wonder, who saved countless lives. A mistake wouldn't just affect him, he shouldered the burden of responsibility for other lives.

He led the Teen Titans. He led other heroes, heroes who had superpowers, who were essentially demi-gods. Dick had to be perfect to keep up, and even that wasn't really enough. He was never the heavy hitter, he's normally the most fragile and the team member who's to deal the least damage.

But Dick's brilliant. He's a gifted leader, meaning he's a vital part of any team, even without the powers his fellow heroes possess. Dick Grayson knew from a young age that he would never match the physical might of many of those he fought, so he out-thought them. Brains over brawn, that's why Dick Grayson is so inspiring.

It's also probably why I detest Fandom Himbo Nightwing so much. Himbo Nightwing doesn't make sense, Dick Grayson isn't remotely himbo-like in canon. Portraying Dick as a guy who doesn't plan or isn't methodical just doesn't make sense and actually goes against his portrayal in the past.

I hope we never see the ridiculous fandom characterisation flatten and undermine Dick's character. He's driven by a need to be perfect, without that drive he's more Ric than Dick. (Bad analogy but you get my point)

More Reading:

[frownyalfred]

You know what this makes me think about? A guy as paranoid and highly trained as Batman would absolutely flip out if someone he didn’t know tried to touch him. He’s probably on alert at virtually all times for possible hits or hands reaching toward him.

But here? He’s on his comm and he doesn’t even blink when Dick reaches into his belt pockets. His belt pockets with explosives and highly dangerous materials that shouldn’t be accessible to anyone who doesn’t know how to disarm them.

Dick reaches into his belt for a sucker and Bruce just lets him. It’s such a casual display of touch that I overlooked the first time I came across this panel.

How many small touches and invasions of his space does Bruce allow from family? How big of a gift is it for him to allow those? What other ways does the Batfamily climb all over him with casual touch and affection? Did he have to learn to accept it after being relatively devoid of it for so long?

Just some morning thoughts as I wake up on cold medicine.

[catpriciousmarjara]

As Dick Grayson once said:

Any trapeze artist or likeminded up to this? @river-bottom-nightmare ?

[umbrellacam]

ok sorry I just have to yell about this real quick -

Nightwing (Vol. 2) #139 - The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul, part 6 Dick: "I let you make the choice for yourself...because I knew you'd make the right one."

Dick didn't know shit, lmao!! "Because I knew you'd make the right one" my ass lol.

Let's rewind two minutes shall we:

Dick: "Tim... Listen... There are no easy answers... But you have the right to make the choice for yourself." || Dick (internal narration): "No-win. If I stop him, I don't trust him. If he goes through with it, I shouldn't have trusted him. C'mon, Tim..."

He doesn't know what choice Tim is going to make, whether his grief will overcome him and he'll take the Lazarus water or not, and has in fact been physically fighting Tim this entire issue to stop him by force. But ultimately he knows it's Tim's right to choose for himself, and decides to hope, and have faith in his brother.

And he has that faith rewarded, and reaffirms it afterward, despite the fact that he wasn't sure.

And paralleling that moment of "yes of course I knew you had it":

Red Robin (2009) #12 Dick: "How'd you know? How did you know I'd be there to save you?" || Tim: "You're my brother, Dick. You'll always be there for me."

TIM DIDN'T KNOW SHIIIIIIIIT HGKLJDKFLSD

At least not consciously! Being caught by Dick is certainly not something he planned for, as he seems to be trying to imply.

Again, rewind:

Tim (internal narration): "I did it. I saved the people he loved. I saved everything he worked so hard to build. No compromises. He won't say anything, he never does. But I know. I know that Bruce will be proud of me. Not a bad day." || Tim: (in the midst of pASSING TF OUT) || Dick: (swoops in and catches him)

Tim may not have actually known that Dick would be there. But that catch... A falling Tim being caught by Dick is a motif that occurs over and over and over across the years of their relationship. Why do I feel like there's a part of Tim, faint as he faded out, and much stronger when he woke up, that went, "Oh, it's Dick - of course if it was anyone, I knew it would be Dick"?

After their conflicts and miscommunications in this arc, after Tim sweeping back into town and explaining not a single thing as he races to thwart Ra's, despite Dick's frustrated pleas, after cutting Dick off with a simple, "Batman...trust me," and Dick's responding, "Of course"....

Tim feeling like he knew, even if he didn't know, or plan, or expect. Because that's his brother. And choosing to express that trust, after Dick chose to trust him...

Just. Dick and Tim. Verbally reaffirming their faith in each other, even after in-the-moment doubts. BROTHERS. My emotions.

[goodoldfashionedengineer]

Tim: So, and for what reason was I 17 years old for the last 15 years?

Damian: That's what you're complaining about? They couldn't even bother to give me a proper characterization until much later on. And then it is one that does not align with my upbringing!

Stephanie: At least you weren't killed just because of misogyny

Dick: Yeah, I wonder how anyone let that through. But then again, I shouldn't expect anything else from writers who made me stuck as Ric for two years and all the, you know, Tarantula stuff

Jason: It's honestly like they just spin a wheel every day to figure out if I'm a villain, hero or anti-hero

Duke: Forget about the writers, the fans also have some... wild assumptions

Stephanie: Yeah, like that you're the normal one!

Cass: Or that I'm mute. Just there to give emotional support

Barbara: Or that the most traumatic thing to ever happen to me is framed as something good just because I became Oracle. I barely had one page of dialogue in that entire story!

Tim: At least they get one thing right.

Dick: And that is?

Tim: Bruce.

Jason: Yeah, what is up with that?! It feels like I've become his punching bag! Why is he considered a hero again when he is just plain abusive at this point?

Duke: Patriarchy

Barbara: And male power fantasy

[scarlethood]

i think the popular fanon that dick and jason had a horrible awful relationship when jason was robin comes from them actually having an exceedingly normal "boring" relationship (except for the way it intertwined with both of the relationships with bruce which are very not normal)

like sorry but theyre living the life of siblings who have a large age gap where one is out of state attending college (partially true) with the added caveat of being adoptive siblings who haven't met before (mostly true)

when dick finds out about jason sure he blows up at bruce (complicated relationship) but he gives jason his original robin costume and says we're brothers call if you need me (very normal and not complicated relationship)

there's no more idolization and hero worship than a younger brother who thinks his older brother is just as cool as he is lame and there's no more extension and recognition of the self in you my mini me than an older brother who understands dad kinda sucks sometimes

sorry not sorry i find such a mundane relationship in a world where the stakes are always life and death where the relationships are always heart and gut wrenching allegories where connections range from soulmates to mortal enemies with little in between to be interesting as is

[theerurishipper]

The thing I'm wondering about is why it's Batman who always gets the blame for what is more or less standard fare across the DCU. "Batman indoctrinates children into his war, the Robins are child soldiers!" But where is this energy for Wally West or Roy Harper or anyone else? Why doesn't anyone call Barry or Clark or Ollie out for indoctrinating children? And in the same vein, Batman gets consistently torn apart for not killing the Joker, when I don't really see any other hero get this? No one is writing hit pieces on Superman for not killing Luthor, but somehow saying Batman is a coward and in the wrong for not wanting to compromise on his principles is a significantly popular opinion? Like, there are legitimate reasons to criticize Bruce as a character (his controlling nature, his tendency to be cold and distant and push people away, etc.), but why is it always the wrong arguments (that have already been explained and explored in depth in canon) that always get the most traction? And why is it always Batman?

[butwhyduh]

One of my favorite tropes is that the entire superhero community can’t believe batman is just a human.

“I thought you were a meta?”

“No.”

“Well how did you do that?”

“(Long explanation of a tech he invented.)”

“Oh so you have super intelligence.”

“No…. I’m just smart.”

Then they meet Robin and assume he’s super powered.

“Bit of a hypocrite to have a super kid when you won’t even let us in the city.”

“Robin isn’t a meta.”

“WhAT?? He’s just a CHILD??”

They think this with every new Gotham vigilante. Some still refuse to believe Nightwing isn’t a meta.

“Humans can’t bend that much okay?”

“He’s… well trained.”

“Batman you can’t expect us to believe that.”

[phantobats]

Contrary to popular belief, Dick Grayson is not a womanizer nor some godly sex-symbol that uses his body to his advantage.

It's shown pretty often that he shuts down compliments/cat-calls (because some of them just are cat-calls) with very obvious uneasiness and awkwardness.

Some proof here:

He doesn't parade his body around and if anything, seems to have an insecurity:

(all images are taken from this post, detailing exactly why Dick is not supposed to be a sex symbol and why it goes against his character. Go give it a read !)

Now to get to the actual point of this post: Where does this insecurity stem from?

I want to preface this by saying that I, myself, haven't been able to find a concrete reasoning from the comics themselves yet — and it could be very well that I have missed it. If so, you are free to crucify and correct me in the notes.

However, I'd like to pitch in the idea that this insecurity could stem from him being a performer. As one myself (although I am more dance/theater based) I can attest to the fact that performing in any way in front of an audience during your childhood/around pre-teen age will most likely have you develop a weird relationship with your body. When each and every part of you is put on display, you will begin to obsess over it. Especially if you want your performances to be perfect. Because for a performance to be perfect everything has to be right, like your costumes and movements. And for your costumes and movements to be right, your body has to look a certain way.

And I'm not saying that he was shamed for his body in any way by his family members or his fellow circus performers, because you don't have to be, to develop a weird relationship with the way you see your body. Even an off-handed comment about your body can trigger such thinking. Just as a clarification.

Him being a vigilante also gives him enough reasons to scrutinize his body in terms of how far it can carry him and etc.

There is also the countless of catcalls and sometimes even SA he goes through that only complicates this further.

Many people have pitched the idea about him leaning into this sexualization as a way to cope, but I just don't think it is the case here. Especially since he himself actively shuts down any attempt at sexualizing him.

Anyways, just food for thought and I felt compelled to share this to see what other people think of this !

[riot-of-robins]

Lots of jokes get made in modern comics and fandom about the pejorative double entendre of Dick Grayson’s given/chosen nickname for Richard, and it IS funny, but I want to give a moment of appreciation for the other, kind of brilliant, double meaning that’s unfortunately fallen out of common modern usage, but would have been way more common when he was first named in 1940.

He’s literally named “detective” you guys, there is no way the World’s Greatest Detective’s partner wasn’t named this way on purpose.

Add to this the way the fandom loves to explore the 21st century reveal/retcon of Dick Grayson’s Romani heritage, and the possible etymology of the word, and you have a goldmine of largely untapped, to my knowledge, discussion of thoughts from Dick Grayson and the people around him about the relationship between his identity, the life he chose, the things he chooses to honor/remember, and the persistence of a nickname that has fallen increasingly out of favor in most other modern contexts.

I love when it’s as simple as “it’s his name and there’s no reason to change it”, but I also think there’s just lots of room for him to also have Real Thoughts about it throughout his life.

[soleminisanction]

Once again got a bee in my bonnet to spend a night doing obscure fandom research to make a point, so. For all those people who keep making the annoying, "Tim keeps '''stealing'' other peoples' names" comments -- have a table.

EDIT: Updated version with some mistakes corrected.

Everyone with a check mark has used that codename at some point in DC's 80+ year continuity -- Elseworlds and alternate dimensions/timelines count, adaptations (movies, video games, cartoons, etc.) don't unless they've got comic book tie-ins, and neither do in-universe dream sequences/illusions/fantasies/other narrative elements that are objectively "not real" within the boundaries of the fiction.

A purple marker indicates an element that only applies in Elseworlds or alternate timelines. Yellow is for the originator of the legacy title. Star symbol is for borderline cases/extenuating circumstances/it's open to interpretation (with some further elaboration below).

The "other" column is just there to account for people who've held lesser or non-legacy titles, like Renegade, Wingman, Arkham Knight, Drake, Redbird, Talon, Deadman, Black Bat, Orphan and Catwoman.

Point being: the people who have actually gone through the most legacy titles in this family are Dick, Babs and Jason, tied with 5 each (again, not counting "other;" if we counted those separately Dick would've had by far the most). Tim is tied with Steph AND Helena Wayne, so unless you're whining about them "stealing other peoples' names" you're just wrong, and they're all only one higher than Damian, Carrie and Bruce.

This is a legacy family that passes their codenames up and down the inheritance line. It's what they do. It's not a legitimate criticism to level at one character and not the others. Please get over it.

---

Further elaboration on some of the lesser known/niche cases:

- Bruce uses the Robin ID in Superman & Batman: Generations, as well as the pre-Crisis Detective Comics #226 story.

- In the second half of Thrillkiller ‘62, Babs cuts her hair and dons the Robin costume worn by her deceased partner Dick to get revenge on his killer; however the only name ever used for her in the series is Batgirl

- Cassandra was a member of the Robins orphan gang from Dark Knights of Steel.

- Duke was a member of the We Are Robins gang, as well as the aforementioned DKS orphan gang, and has appeared as Robin in a couple of Elseworlds, including I believe a White Knight spin-off.

- Cass was Batwoman in one of the versions of the Titans Tomorrow, as was Bette Kane, depending on changes to the timeline.

- Babs is Batwoman in the Batman ‘66 comics and in the 1980 story “The Secret Origin of Bruce (Superman) Wayne”

- Earth-3 Steph is Batwoman in Young Justice 2019.

- Helena Wayne is Batwoman in the possible future story Last Rites

- Tim is a member of the Batgirls vigilante/little league baseball team in the DC Bombshells universe, as is Cullen Row. Some call them the “Batboys” instead. I call those people cowards.

- Helena Bertinelli wore the costume that would later become Cass’s signature Batgirl look during No Man’s Land. However, she was more often referred to as “The Bat” and her Batgirl status is up to individual interpretation.

- Dick didn’t originate the Nightwing name, it started with Clark in the Silver Age.

- Steph has never been Nightwing. The panel where she appears in the costume is a Black Mercy illusion that happens only in her own mind. It’s a dream sequence.

- Barbara was Nightwing in the Smallville Season 11 comics.

- Terry was briefly Nightwing in volume 4 of Batman Beyond.

- Damian briefly became Nightwing after accidentally killing Dick in the Injustice series.

- Dick is Oracle in the “Eight Wonders of the World” version of Earth 2 (aka the Black Superman dimension)

[bluetrapeze]

Dick Grayson, leadership.

Dick's a leader, you've probably heard that before, but in what way? Why is he seen as a leader? What are his leader-like qualities?

We can see from as early as the 1960's that Dick's always been quick on the draw. By this I mean Dick is quick to react, quicker than his companions.

He knows his allies' abilities and orders them to preform specific tasks accordingly.

(Teen Titans (1966) #8)

Dick's able to analyse a situation and plan out counter measures in the time it takes for others to realize something is happening. His plans are generally successful too.

He's a genius in mechanics, biology, deduction, language, movement and more, his educated guesses tend to be correct. Dick's first reaction tends to be one based in logic, which is why his reactionary commands are followed without doubt.

He's that guy.

Dick's also a man who doesn't give a toss who you are or what you can do, if he thinks he has a plan you're getting ordered around.

Dick has ordered the members Justice League, and they've listened to him.

Man of Steel < Balls of Steel

(Teen Titans vol 3 #6)

Dick's also self deprecating. He's not egotistic (he knows his own worth and skills but he's his own biggest critic), he gives praise and support when it's deserved.

He's inspiring.

The New TT vol 2 #31

Dick can be intense, but it's due to his high standards. He knows the risks of the superhero lifestyle, he's accepted those risks.

He expects others to act seriously in Superhero spaces as a result.

(Young Justice #7)

[daydreamerwonderkid]

Me, after doing 15 minutes of excessive googling on every Batfam member's birthday only to then realize I've accidentally missed the majority of them this year, and then also finding out that people are still aggressively debating over whether Bruce's birthday is April 7 or February 19, Dick's birthday happens 3-6x throughout the year, and Stephanie might have just popped into existence for all that DC cares:

Batfam birthday dates btw for anyone who needs them are listed beneath the cut:

DISCLAIMER: DC is notorious for being super inconsistent with everything and I am a mere tadpole caught in the tidal wave of DC's ocean. This post will be regularly updated with edits and corrections so please do not use it as word of law, I am begging you.

Update (8/24/23): To keep things more simple and easier for everyone I am going to start categorizing the birth dates I've collected into 3 categories.

-Most popular: Self-explanatory. These are the birth dates that have been canonized and confirmed by DC and are also more wildly celebrated by the fandom. Typically, this should be the first result you see when you google the character's birthday. But not always because DC sucks ass.

-Other date(s): These are the additional birth dates I come across that have been canonized in some form with multiple sources, but are not as wildly celebrated or popularized by DC and/or the fandom. Why am I including them here? Mostly because I don't want people coming in saying I forgot a date. But also because if I have to see this mess, then y'all have too as well.

-Potential but unconfirmed date(s): This is where I will put all the other additional dates I find, but specifically those that are lacking in complete sources or seem to be highly debated and scrutinized.

Also fun emoji ranking guide for me and me alone:

👑👑: Queen Shit. Characters with a consistent and simple birth date(s). Can absolutely do no wrong.

👑😮‍💨: In the Running. Characters who don't have a set birth date, but the mess is minor and completely DC's fault. They shouldn't have to be punished for DC's crimes.

🤡🤡: Gtfo. Shit is so inconsistent and stupidly messy that it's making me lose my shit. I'm putting DC and the characters on trial for this bullshit.

👑Alfred Pennyworth👑

Most popular: August 16

Other date(s): April 8 and March 31

(I think it'd be hella cute if Jason and Alfred shared a bday. But if you keep scrolling through the rest of the list, you'll see that August is kind of an overcrowded bday month for the Batfam.

Depending on what you prefer, though, I still think Alfred's worth being celebrated. Lord knows he deserves a special day for himself)

(Update ((8/24/23)): No big inconsistencies between these dates. I just thought it would be fun to provide some info on why Alfred has two canonical birthdates.

So the reason August 16 is viewed as the most popular is for two main reasons. One, obviously, is that he shares a birth date with Jason Todd. So many fans latch onto this date because of how sweet it is for them to share a birthday together.

The second reason has to do with the origin of the birth date. This is because of the more recent retcon that was made by the prequel comic to the Injustice: Gods Among Us video game that was published in 2013. There is a panel in the comic that shows Alfred's birth certificate in full detail from his full name, his place of birth, etc.

As for April 8, this specific date technically has more history compared to August 16. Fans will cite that April 8 was the official date selected by DC according to their Super DC Calendar back in 1976 (which btw was made in 1975).

Compared to August 16 and April 8, however, March 31 oddly enough isn't that popular or recognized by DC or the majority of the fandom. The reason March 31 does come up is because March 31, 1943 was the date when Alfred made his first appearance in the comics, one day after Bruce/Batman)

🤡Bruce Wayne🤡: Hey. Hey, DC, look at me. Bitch.

Most popular: February 19 or April 7

Other date(s): April 25, May 27, March 30, "October," October 7, and "November"

(It looks like most people go with February 19, but don't come at me if you're a April 7 truther. I'm just existing)

(Update ((8/20/23)): I'm gonna shoot somebody. So after doing a little bit more research, I came across-you'd never guess it-even more conflicting info on when Bruce's birthday is supposed to take place.

While April 7 and February 19 are still popular days for fans to celebrate Batman's bday, March 30 is also considered a popular date due to March 30, 1939 being the day Detective Comics #27 ((the issue Batman debuted in)) was put on shelves.

HOWEVER, even Batman's debut is contested to actually be May 27, 1939 because despite the fact that Detective Comics #27 first appeared to the public on March 30, 1939, the cover issue depicted May 27, 1939 instead.

This is because it was a popular practice for comics publication houses to falsify their cover dates as a way to give the impression that the latest issue was newer than it actually was. So if you really, really wanna get super fucking technical about it ((and I know there are some of you out there who do)), Batman may have debuted on March 30, but the cover-issue date was May 27 so, yes, I guess Bruce could have been a May baby instead.

I hate it here.

Oh, and to make matters more complicated, let's discuss the issue of April 7 vs April 25. So the reason April 7 is a popular bday for Bruce is because the original 1930-40s run just outright stated that April 7 was his birthday. Simple enough.

So what does April 25 have to do with this? Well, that's because technically-I think I hate that word now btw-Batman didn't get his own solo comic until April 25, 1940. If you want to go by April 25 because of this logic, however, that means that you'd have to share Bruce's birthday with the Joker. Because guess what? That's also the exact date that the Joker debuted.

I'm personally not a huge fan of Bruce and the Joker sharing a bday. Mostly just because the dates are clearly already complicated enough. But also I feel like April 25 is just known as the Joker's bday at this point, at least in the DC fandom. And Bruce has so many options at this point that it'd be kinda silly to make them share a bday.

As for the "sometime in October" and "sometime in November" additions, we have Batman The Animated Series and Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" to thank for those extremely vague options.

BTAS Bruce states that his birthday is "sometime in October" and "Batman: Year One" Bruce is responsible for "sometime in November." I repeat: I hate it here.

So when is Bruce's actual birthday? Well, the latest change that DC has "officially" made was the February 19 retcon during the 1970-80s. When a fan sent a question into Detective Comics about Bruce's birthday, the answer given was "February 19" in the letter column. Issue #494, to be exact.

And the reason this answer was given? Because the Super DC Calender for 1976 (again made in 1975) said so.

However, there are still people who prefer to celebrate his bday on April 7 or March 30 instead. And there's also a question floating around if the New 52 run could potentially retcon Bruce's bday AGAIN at some point in the future.

I. Hate. It. Here.

Personally, I liked February 19 because then Alfred could maybe have the month of April to himself. But after seeing all this new info, I'm just sort of resigned to whichever date that the fandom prefers. Y'all can decide. I don't have any energy left.

Also, I can't believe I have to accuse Bruce of having possibly taught Dick his bday scam. Just .... wow).

(Update ((8/24/23)): Well, DC did it to me again. I found this extra little tidbit while googling the Super DC Calendar for Alfred, actually.

So Issue #10 of the 2021 Legends of the Dark Knight decided to give the BTAS's "sometime in October" an actual sometime.

How do I feel about yet another Bruce Wayne bday retcon? Honestly, I think I'm moving closer and closer to just a bland state of acceptance at this point. Tbh, I don't think all these retcons actually matter that much in the end. DC is gonna keep being DC.

Which is annoying. But Idk I'm personally gonna stick with February 19. No shade to you if you prefer any of the other dates. I just like February 19 more than the others)

👑Kate Kane👑

Most popular: March 21

Other date(s): January 26

(So ... where to start to with this one?

Well the official DC canon birth date for Kate Kane is listed as March 21. That being said, if you were to google Kate's birthday right now, you might be confused because that's not the first result that comes up.

Instead, you'll be greeted with January 26, 1990.

So what gives? If there's already an official DC approved birth date, then why the fuck is January 26 coming up all of a sudden?

Well, folks, you have the CW's Batwoman to thank.

Tbh I was very confused as to how I completely missed that there was an entire Batwoman TV show in the first place.

Apparently the show is considered a part of the CW Arrowverse (in reference to the CW show Arrow featuring Oliver Queen, for those of you who need extra info) and ran for 3 whole seasons before being cancelled on April 9, 2022.

And they gave us actual canon lesbian Kate Kane rep. I mean, she is a lesbian. But yeah. CW actually acknowledged her sexual orientation. So kudos for doing the bare minimum?????

Anyway, I guess the showrunners just decided they wanted Kate's birthday to be on January 26 instead of March 21??? Idk if this was supposed to be a reference or an homage to Cassandra Cain's birthday. I doubt it, but who knows?)

🤡Dick Grayson🤡: Greedy bitch who keeps lying about his birthday so he can scam people into giving him more presents jk jk

Most popular: "On the first day of spring" (bruh) or March 20/21

Other date(s): March 6, "April," October 24 (aka "the week before Halloween"), November 11 and December 1

Potential but unconfirmed date(s): June 24

(Dick's canon bday seems to be influx. March 6, March 20, March 21, November 11, June 24, December 1, and so on. I did see multiple sources state Dick was born "on the first day of spring." I'm unclear atm about whether this is a fanon take or if it was actually stated in a particular comic at some point.

As far as I'm concerned, Dick just keeps lying about his birthday for the lols)

(Update ((8/24/23)): Well, guess what I found, folks?

It's a return visit from our favorite friend, the Super DC Calendar of 1976. And according to it, Dick's birthday should be November 11.

You can also thank the Young Justice comic for the confusion surrounding Dick's bday being on December 1.

Also, I found this post by @theflyingwonder that helps clear up a LOT of the mess surrounding Dick's ever changing birth date. Honestly, amazing work and extra kudos to them for putting all the work in and finding all the sources. I just wished I had found their post earlier, holy shit.

And if you have some extra time, please give some love to @inkydandy for their hilarious and very sweet comic about all the confusion that comes with Dick's bday)

(Update ((8/25/23)): Many thanks to @poisoned-ivy for clearing up even more of the mess surrounding Dick's bday. I went ahead and took a screenshot of their response to my old "Which date is Dick's canon bday?" poll.

They also provided a link to the DC Universe Calendar which was lovingly compiled from the original 1976 Super DC Calendar and then put together by the people who run the Five Earths Project .

Also found out from them today that October 24 is one of Dick's bdays ((at least for Post-Crisis Dick Grayson)). So that was a fun new discovery!

They were also very helpful in helping me realize that the original article I had found that stated "sometime in April" was actually in reference to Dick Grayson's first appearance in the comics, which was April 1940.

So, yes, "sometime in April" is technically--again I hate this word so much now--still a valid candidate for Dick's bday. And before you ask: Detective Comics #38 was actually published on March 6, 1940.

Hence why people will cite March 6 as Dick's canon bday instead.

This project got a lot bigger than I ever expected it to ... god)

👑Barbara Gordon👑: September 23

👑Jason Todd👑: August 16

👑Cassandra Cain👑: January 26

👑Tim Drake👑: July 19

👑Stephanie Brown😮‍💨: She emerged from the void with the sole purpose of dragging Bruce's ass to hell and back. Nothing can stop her. We all exist in her world now.

Potential but unconfirmed date(s): June 23, "August," or August 11

(For real, though, some peeps will say June 23 since the month she officially debuted in the comics was June 1992.

But I've also seen August 1992 listed as her bday month as well--lot of August babies in the Batfam, huh--but I haven't found June 23 specifically listed as her canon bday, either. It honestly feels like the fans are putting in more work than DC at this point. Which, like, I'm not surprised. Just disappointed)

(Update ((8/24/23)): Someone mentioned August 11 as a potential birth date, but I have yet to see an actual source that specifically states this. If I do find one, I'll edit this section. Figured I should put it here just in case, though)

👑Duke Thomas👑: August 13

👑Damian Wayne👑: August 9

👑Terry McGinnis😮‍💨

Most popular: August 18

Other date(s): June 27 or August 10

Potential but unconfirmed date(s): September 19 (fml)

(Yes, I'm including Terry, fuck you lol

Also SERIOUSLY WTF is up with so many of these August birthdays!!!! Fuck, was everyone just getting crazy BUSY in November!!!! What's going on in the DC universe that is making November of all months the HORNY MONTH????!!!!)

(Mini update ((8/18/23)): Well, I just found out that apparently June 27th 2023 is also a highly debated birth date for Terry. As is August 10 2023/2024 and August 18 2023/2024. I even saw a mention of September 19 2023, but I don't know how credible that source actually is. I'm just putting it here because I'm losing my mind and I don't want someone to pop in and say I forgot it omfg I'm dying

I'm just ... why? Why is it so hard to just commit to one month and one date. I'm not even concerned about the exact year. Just commit to ONE, man.

Excuse me while I march over to DC HQ and burn the whole place to the ground iswtfg)

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of these. I have a massive headache now and am open to any suggestions or clarifications y'all have to offer.

Also, I'm going to fist fight Dick in a Denny's parking lot.

Update (8/17/23): So a mini post that I meant to use as a way to vent how insane Dick was making me somehow blew up way more than I ever expected it to, and now I feel obligated to clarify again that I am open to any corrections and additional info that anyone has to offer.

I'm saying this because I've noticed people reblogging this post for actual Batfam bday references and someone already pointed out I fucked up Tim's bday and now I feel bad for everyone who reblogged this post prior to that edit.

It's probably just the anxiety talking, but yeah I just wanted to put that out there.

Also justice for Stephanie Brown! She deserves to have her own special day and if I have to bully DC into giving her a canon birthday, then you bet your ass I fucking will.

(And to all of y'all who are encouraging Dick to keep running his side scam business, I just have this to say: There's an empty Denny's parking lot somewhere out there just waiting for you, too lol)

[fancyhandsbakery]

Here is how I calculate the bat-families current ages using evidence from the comics that the writers love to ignore bc there is no way for their now canon ages to match their cannon age gaps. (If you don’t want to wait, results are the 2nd set of bullet points)

Here is what we know about their current ages:

Dick is 28 or 27(somewhere around there) in the current Nightwing run(if he’s 26 tell me and just minus one from the final results)

Jason is, I think, 22 or 23 as of Task force Z or something if I remember right

Tim is finally 18

And Damian is 14 as of the newest Robin series

Here is what we know about their canon age gaps:

We know that Jason and Dick are 7 years apart. Why? In Batman 416 we find out that that Dick is 19 and Jason is 12 when they first meet in post crisis

We know that Tim and Jason are 2 or 3(2.5 really) years apart. Why? Jason dies when he is 15. Following his birthday and Tim being 13 when he becomes Robin, they have to be 2.5 years apart. I’ll use 2 and 3 for simplicity.

Tim and Damian are 6/7 year apart. Why? Tim is 17 in Red Robin and Damian is 10.

Cassandra is less than a year older than Jason. Why? We find out when Bruce shows her Jason’s grave.

Duke is 16 when we meet him. Damian is around 12. Tim is still 17. So Duke and Damian are 4 year apart.

Per the original 40s comics, Dick and Bruce have a 14 year age gap. In the 2002 run, they have a 10 year age gap.

So how do we make sense of this.

Damian is the most recent and cannon age we know so we have to use his age to find everyone’s actual age. Red is cannon ages.

Damian(14) + 6/7 = Tim(20/21)

Tim(20/21) + 2/3 = Jason(22/23)

Jason(22/23) + >1 = Cassandra(22.5/23/23.5/24)

Jason(22/23) + 6/7 = Dick(28/29/29/30)

Damian(14) + 4 = Duke (18)

Final ages

Damian is 14

Duke is 18

Tim is 20 or 21

Jason is 22 or 23

Cassandras is <23.5

Dick is 29 or 30

Now Bruce. In the original comics(1942), Dick is 8 when his parents die, but is retconned to be 12 in the 2002 comics. I’ll do both timelines. Bruce’s starting age is hard to agree on. I see 22 a lot and given the out come of this, it makes sense because Bruce is currently in his 40s.

Using the 1940s ages, Dick and Bruce have a 14 year old age gap. (22 - 8 = 14) Given that Dick has to be 29 or 30, Bruce is 43 or 44. These ages make sense in cannon.

Using the 2002 ages, Dick and Bruce have a 10 year age gap. (22 - 12 = 10) Given that Dick has to be 29 or 30, Bruce is 39 or 40. These make less sense given the ages he would adopt the other kids and what we know in cannon.

Bruce is 43 or 44

Stephanie would be 21 or 22 by the way.

Barbra is older than Dick by a sum. Probably less than 35.

I would love to know what you think. Did I mess up with anything?

Edit made: I fucked up Duke's age. He'd be 18 bc he's 4 years older than Damian. 14 + 4 = 18

[umbrellacam]

Saw a post where someone wasn't sure if Tim being good at computers was a fanon thing or not and friend I am happy to inform you that he's been a computer/tech guy from some of his earliest appearances in the comics.

Detective Comics (Vol. 1) #620 (Rite of Passage part 4) - immersed in the ~web~

Robin II: The Joker's Wild #3 - tabletop roleplaying games and spending hours in the basement on the computer - not beating the geek allegations on these fronts, Timmy

Detective Comics (Vol. 1) #676 - Dick was more into traditional detective work and tended to outsource the computer stuff in these days

Batman (Vol. 1) #514 (Prodigal part 10) - hackin' through all the garbage and garble

Robin (1993) #33 - Robin sneaking in and connecting Oracle with the baddies' mainframe so she can do her thing and steal all their data >:)

Nightwing (1996) #6 - "no you're really talented and well suited to be Robin." "no, you." "no, YOU!"

Tim is definitely not as good as Babs/Oracle, but he's certainly her back-up for computer work in the 90's batfam. They're tech buddies and Robin!Tim is her little assistant sometimes, it's super cute:

Birds of Prey (1999) #19 - happy to play with big sister's fancy high-powered toys

Legends of the Dark Knight (1989) #125 - real cute kid

And Dick will hand off computer jobs to his little brother when he doesn't want to bother Babs 😂 (that outsourcing I mentioned):

Nightwing (1996) #68 - examine them pixel by pixel, eh? welp, sounds like a job only you can do, Timbo, you got this buddy, byyyyeeeee

And then when he'd grown up and been doing this for years, he leveled up accordingly, and did stuff like use his access to the League of Assassins computers to overload the generators in every base he could find, etc. etc.

Red Robin (2009) #8 - yeah that was pretty dumb of you Ra's :)

So yeah, it was a bit of a specialty of Tim's, in large part because he was introduced just at the turn into the 90's, when personal computers were really starting to take off and become widespread. (Robins gotta be cutting edge and all)

Of course, by no means does it follow that the other Bats suck at computers (there is no 'smart one' they are all incredibly smart and capable). This is especially true as reboots and the sliding timescale of comics have moved the DC characters into modern times, where computers run the world and everyone grows up with one in their pocket. The baseline familiarity and expertise that everyone can be expected to have is just much, much higher these days.

It gets exaggerated in fanon as all character traits do, but computer guy Tim is definitely not something just made up out of whole cloth :)b

[laufire]

"brothers in blood" was drawn wrong because I know deep in my heart that jason wore the classic discowing version of the nightwing suit. he was there in new york attending fashion shows and entering fist fights by day (early night?) and going tits (half) out to stab people by night (later night). I think the youths call it "having a normal one."