#Macron vs Le Pen

[ninocom5786]

Un male è sempre minore di un altro susseguente possibile maggiore. Ogni male diventa minore in confronto di un altro che si prospetta maggiore e così all’infinito. La formula del male minore, del meno peggio, non è altro dunque che la forma che assume il processo di adattamento a un movimento storicamente regressivo, movimento di cui una forza audacemente efficiente guida lo svolgimento, mentre le forze antagonistiche (o meglio i capi di esse) sono decise a capitolare progressivamente, a piccole tappe e non di un solo colpo (ciò che avrebbe ben altro significato, per l��effetto psicologico condensato, e potrebbe far nascere una forza concorrente attiva a quella che passivamente si adatta alla “fatalità”, o rafforzarla se già esiste)

Antonio Gramsci, Quaderni del Carcere, Quaderno 16 (XXII) § 25

[jloisse]

🚨Quand Macron disait, devant la France entière, que Marine Le Pen créerait une « Guerre Civile » avec les cités. Un commentaire peut-être ? 🤣🤣🤣

[mask131]

A continuation of my previous post, about how in France today the two political extremes offer a sad mirror of racism, with the far-right only wishing to kick out all Black, Muslims and Arabs, and the far-left trying to make people believe Jews and Asians are not minorities, are not discriminated upon, cannot suffer prejudice, and are in fact secret oppressors of the masses...

Because there is a very blatant demonstration of this double-standard established by the extreme-left, which is fascinating in the light of the Israel-Palestine situation today. Two mass-deaths of Muslim people, one man of the far-left, and two very different reactions: today I want to briefly explain to you Jean-Luc Mélenchon's dual view about the Israel attacks on Gaza versus the Uyghurs systematic destruction by China.

I think I said before how France is currently caught between two devils - I'll still recap it briefly. Right now, after Macron, there are two likely candidates to be the next president, the two most popular political figures of the elections today... and they are the faces of the two extremes of the political spectrum. (That's why the current extremism in politics today is called "polarization", everybody goes to the most extreme, no "medium" or "middle" ground is possible anymore).

On one side, Marine Le Pen, who is the face of the extreme-right, and the heir (politically and literaly, since she is her daughter) of Jean-Marie Le Pen, the very living caricature of the extreme-right politician (he collects all the forms of racism, discrimination and -phobe adjectives), to the point his violent excesses caused his party's downfall... But a downfall that was negated due to A) Marine Le Pen's huge "de-diabolization" campaign during which she "de-fanged" her party to "kill the father" (again, metaphorically and literaly) and B) The Le Pen figure growing a second head in the shape of Jordan Bardella, who is also a politician of the extreme-right, but who is hugely popular due to being a young pretty boy who acts as a huge influencer on social media. (Don't even get me started on Eric Zemmour's whole mess)

On the other side, Jean-Luc Mélenchon, the embodiment of France's extreme-left. Mélenchon is literaly France's equivalent of Trump - if Trump was on the far-left instead of the far-right. He is this elderly, rich, white guy (which is quite ironic since his ideology is all about defending and promoting young non-white people... and yet they all follow this old white guy who refuses to let anyone else handle his party) ; he is a very rude and vulgar man who keeps insulting everybody he meets ; he encourages a general distrust of the media (that he both regularly uses and regularly disdains in a very open way) ; he encourages his party to rise up and riot whenever there is something that doesn't please him (there were literaly attacks on universities by his voting base when he wasn't elected president last elections), he is a master demagogue AND has an ego the size of a monument (he keeps comparing himself to the Gracchi brothers for example, and keeps using in a very pedantic way the notions of the Roman Republic, from Antiquity you know).

And he does carry with him the whole "Don't like Jews, don't like Asians" baggage of the extreme-left. Mind you, he is careful about it - as he never says anything too openly antisemite, for example, while making sure to not say anything too openly against antisemitism, you see the kind of trickery. But the real proof of the double-standard of the extreme-left, that strongly defends Islam and Arab people and yet considers Asian people (understand Chinese, Japanese, etc) to be "too white", "too rich" and "too powerful" to be a discriminated minority in any sort of way, is the case of the use of the word "genocide" when it comes to Palestine vs the Uyghurs.

Jean-Luc Mélenchon has been openly on the "pro-Palestine" side of the whole mediatic fight around the Israelo-Palestinian conflict. A bit too much in fact, which is all tied to the many accusations of antisemitism against him - and, as with many very virulent pro-Palestinian mediatic figures, he insists that currently Israel is purposefully causing a genocide in Palestine. Mélenchon being Mélenchon, he is not AT ALL subtle about this - in interviews, he openly says that international organizations and world-groups have recognized a genocide is taking place. When someone points out "Actually, they have opened an investigation for it / There are suspicions of it but no conclusion has been given yet / In truth no official word came out", he immediately slaps back that either the other person is misinformed, either that a suspicion or an investigation by international organization is enough of a proof. It is even more obvious when someone tells him that what is going on is Gaza seems to be more of a set of war crimes than an actual genocide - he insists that it is a genocide, and copiously insults and accuses of all things (from cowardice to racism passing by stupidity) those that refuse to use it in a blunt and non-nuanced way.

Okay... Now what about the Uyghurs?

OH BOY! Do you know what Mélenchon had to say when he was asked about qualifying the inhuman situation of the Uyghurs in China as a "genocide"? He said no. He said no, it is not a genocide, he refused to recognize it as such. We are talking about concentration camps, forced re-education, government-kidnappings, arbitrary arrests, culture-erasure, and suspicions of forced sterilization. Everybody agrees that the situation of the Uyghurs is basically a genocide - and there's none of the complex nuances and troubling factors there are in Gaza today. And yet... he refuses to call it a genocide. Even more hypocrisy on his part: he invoked the fact that international organizations had not called it at the time a "genocide" to defend the fact he himself will not call it a genocide. And even more nauseting... He said - and I quote, that's again a typical Mélenchon style: to call the situation of the Uyghurs a "genocide" would be "dévaloriser" the word "genocide". If I translated this verb, it means "devalue", or "lower the standard". Mélenchon literaly said that calling the situation of the Uyghurs a "genocide" would be "lowering the standard" of a genocide ; and yet he immediately called the situation of the Palestinians a "genocide" despite the international groups and authorities saying one had to be careful about the use of this word.

Why? What is the difference between the two situations? After all, you have the mass-death of a Muslim community in both cases... In both cases you have people confronted by a powerful goverment and crushing state... What is the difference between the Palestinians bombed by Israel and the Uyghurs imprisoned and mutilated by China? Simple! One situation is about Arabs - even better, it is Arab attacked by Jews! Of course the extreme-left would jump on this like a dog on a bone. But the Uyghurs? That's Chinese people, destroyed by the Chinese government. Aka, that's Asians versus Asians. And there, suddenly, oh what a miracle! Suddenly the fact they are Muslims (which is the big credo of Mélenchon, he presents himself as the great defendor of Muslims throughout the world) doesn't matter anymore! "It's Asians bickering with Asians - you can't call it a genocide". Despite the fact that it is a systematic discrimination and ethnic cleansing going on for a long time... But a Jewish nation declares war on an Arab state after a terrorist attacks - immediately it is a "genocide".

I am not here debating whether or not each situation is a genocide - that's not the topic here. Same way I do not want to see anyone in this post trying to pit one situation against the other - both the situations in Palestine and the one of the Uyghurs are awful and abominable in different ways, and trying to make them compete is useless. The point is simply to show how the spokesperson, how the embodiment of the extreme-left, reflects their "Pick and choose your favorite minority" mentality - by only giving all their care and concern to Arab Muslims, and literaly refusing to care for Chinese Muslims...

[rototolescargot]

I'm not sure it counts as a proof and I've seen a lot of takes to that effect so I wanted to give my point of view. Although I'm definitely relieved by the results, I have not forgotten the weeks of targetting the left, both from the media and the center (I'll call center Macron's allies although it's not that accurate) politicians (Macron and the like talking about the "both extremes" being bad, comparing the left defending Palestine to actual holocaust denial). Sure, they *mostly* defected when there was three candidates in the second turn with the far right ahead, and I'm glad they did. But a few from the center didn't, again citing the left as being just as bad, in my family's electoral district for instance, it led to the far right candidate, a litteral white supremacist, winning over the left by a few hundred votes, yay. No one from the left did that.

And compare how the people who voted for the left in the first turn voted against far right vs people who voted for the center / the traditional right

it's in french sorry, but the way to read it is, when it was left vs far right, depending on which left party, people who voted for the center in the first turn voted 43 and 54% for the left party and 19 and 15% for the far right and people who voted for the traditional right voted only 26 and 29% for the left and way more (38/34%) for the far right. MEANWHILE, the left voted 75% for the center when they were against the far right and 70% for the traditional right (I really admire them, I'm glad I wasn't in this situation).

So I don't really like the narrative of "see the left and the center united against fascism and defeated it!". The center and the right have been using far right talking points for YEARS, the mainstream media have been opening their arms to Marine le Pen and Zemmour's parties, and now the far right has had a huge increase in its number of seats in the parliament in only a few years (8 in 2027, 88(lol) in 2022 and now 143). Sure they didn't get the most seats but the dynamic is scary. I'm glad we have a strong left but they didn't get enough seats to get anything done without strong compromises, so I'm not so optimistic.

(sorry for any typos I'm on my phone with french autocorrect)

you see a lot of "actually liberals/socialists hate socialists/liberals more than fascists" so it's nice to have a definitive example in France of them both definitely hating the far right more

[kphag]

The world is bad because of Trump.

I'm not so sure it was a mistake on Macron's part. If the elections are tilting to the right, and it seems likely that Le Pen would/will/may become the next President in 27, then having to cohabitate with Bardella for a few years could be useful for both sides. Either it will reveal more about what the other side is about, or it will help to bridge that gap.

It's comforting (as an American) to see that voters are just as ignorant and misguided in France as here. It makes me feel less alone. "This was a personal rejection," said Jacques Rupnik, a political scientist. "People no longer want Macron bringing them together." Ok, folks. Let's see how that works out for ya. Remember the "Yes, I voted in favor of Brexit, but I didn't actually think it would pass! Can I get a redo?" people? You should remember them.

Globally, the divisiveness between the Left and the Right is specifically because a de facto global leader, "a President of the US," who happened to be named Donald Trump, made it so. For reasons that we may not yet fully grasp – or maybe it's just because he wasn't loved as a child, who knows – he wanted there to be disarray and chaos, a perceived lack of credibility all around, and a strong Us vs Them mentality. He created it, he IS it, and he is an infection on the planet, and that infection is spreading.

So Macron, in calling for this election, was perhaps shocked, but not surprised, by the outcome. Like when a person dies after a long illness. You knew it was coming, but you didn't know when. When it finally happens, you're left reeling, because you didn't want to go there until there came here. We are quite likely going to go through the same thing here in the U.S. God help us, every one.

[mariuskalander]

Tweeted

RT @EuropeElects: France, Elabe poll: Presidential run-off election (ETF only) Le Pen (RN-ID): 55% (+14) Macron (RE-RE): 45% (-14) +/- vs. 2022 election Fieldwork: 3-5 April 2023 Sample size: 1,808 ➤ https://t.co/qOzl2nSVPC https://t.co/GLu8EQIr8X

— Mario Calandra (@MariusKalander) Apr 5, 2023

[jack-bytez-genuine-corner]

For reference but Gen Z hasn't, as a colloquial term for people aged roughly 17ish to 27ish, lived in a Western country not undergoing massive decline. In the UK it was the 14 years of Tory rule which culminated into tons of privatization, stagnating wages, privatization and eventually Brexit that all but collapsed UK relevance but simultaneously made life for everyone living there consistently worse over time. France, Germany and a few other EU nations have been in a brutal fight between ultrarich interests, Russian and China interference in elections, politicians and energy, while simultaneously dealing with high xenophobia and bigotry which bogs down both local and EU politics which has led to issues in health, housing and a decline in high, stable wages. Once you hit the US you get a culmination of all these issues alongside some I haven't said like how many governments are gerontocracies where a lot of these politicians are so old and out of touch that they can't even comprehend the technology of today but you also have our baked in structural issues like the Electoral College which lets land win over popular vote, Supreme Court which can and regularly does throw out any law and legal precedent it disagrees with, gerrymandering and voter suppression being legal and preserved through generations of inaction, basic rights only being gained in the most tangential stance due to how impossible it is to federally pass anything and codify rights which can be anywhere from "Tossed out by SCOTUS" to "Requires 2/3rds of both houses." The forced 2 senator model keeping land in power over people so it's true in both state and federal systems, the over 20 year wars from Dubya that has led to a mass decline in respect towards soldiers and absolute failure on that entire institution to make it seem like it's anything but official soldiers for hire which will bribe you to kill innocent people and even die in exchange for an education, broken body and broken psyche if you live, giant differences in state law which near universally leaves all workers overworked and underpaid while companies can immorally stop unions and fire their workers with zero reason nor recourse, finally topped with barely existent safety nets that are always one or two steps away from just not existing at all.

But what does this actually MEAN? Well Gen Z is unionizing more, getting more politically active, becoming much more critical of existing institutions, not to kill those institutions off but to actually make them work. We see this in the UK kicking out the Tories after 14 years of direct financial and institutional decline in favor of Labor. We see this in France relegating the far right Le Pen led party to 3rd in power while the current Macron led center is 2nd, while the progressive party is leading forcing a coalition between business as usual and actual change. While in the US I can't point to recent elections directly I can point to the rise in ballot initiatives to save abortion in many states which, if the current bans remain in place, would force doctors who perform a life saving abortion to go to prison or stay in their job while women died, alongside preventing the complete loss of OBGYN services to millions, the growing support for queer people, the creation and resurgence of many unions, talks and actions on political and court reforms to prevent corruption, alongside the steady losses for Republicans in every election in every state since 2018, with 2016 being the first time that Gen Z could vote while millions every 4 years can start protesting at the ballot box vs just in schools which has led to groups for gun reforms and a complete shift on work back to a much older view on work than our nationalist version we've had for over a century.

At it's core, every action has an equal or opposite reaction. You can count me as optimistic that after decades of decline we're going to see decades of fixing many wrongs to make a better world cause the old people of today didn't want to plant a tree they'd never live to see grow, and that's because we've hit a generation who has no nostalgia for the days of old and are patently aware of the issues. I'm pretty hopeful, but I can still be wrong I guess.

being unemployed is rad but being unemployed in a world that treats employment as a necessity that completes you as a person while also having zero access to unemployment benefits is maybe not so good

[reportwire]

France Votes As President Emmanuel Macron, Candidate Marine Le Pen Go Head-To-Head In Presidential Elections

France Votes As President Emmanuel Macron, Candidate Marine Le Pen Go Head-To-Head In Presidential Elections

<!– –> The second round run-off is a repeat of the clash between Le Pen and Macron in 2017. Paris: French voters headed to the polls Sunday for the presidential run-off between centrist incumbent Emmanuel Macron and his challenger Marine Le Pen, whose far-right party appears set to have its strongest election showing ever. Macron went into the election with a stable lead in opinion polls, an…

[transparentgentlemenmarker]

Emmanuel Macron du 24 avril 2022 réélu à 58,55% lors du 2ème scrutin. Marine le Pen 41,45%. Taux d'abstention 28,01%. Votes blancs 6,35% nuls 2,25%

April 25 2022

[just-a-cruel-white-man]

@feminismisstillahatemovement To go back to France, sadly this likely won't end well for Le Pen's RN. The elections are two rounds, so in the areas where the RN didn't get 50%, this is going to be RN vs either Macron's party or the left wing coalition. And, since they love democracy, those two have announced that they're gonna drop out if they qualify but in third place, so it's RN vs Macron OR left coalition. And as we've seen in 2022, for the average french, hating Macron for using covid to ruin millions of lives, trying to make himself the new Napoleon, and saying multiple times that poor people are worthless, comes second to fearing the so called "far right" (whose platform is basically "control immigration" and "lower the VAT for essential goods"). So we can safely assume if the left drops out the voters will go to Macron and if Macron drops out the voters will go to the left.

So, unless they already got 50% and won, the RN will probably lose a lot of the seats they were leading in. I don't think the left + Macron can have a majority either, so I'd say the only hope for the RN is to form a majority coalition with the center-right Les Républicains party, who's actually not doing too bad, but the problem is they're so spineless that the moment someone suggested a coalition with the RN he got kicked out from the party meetings.

As always, the legislative elections are a joke, the fact that it was started by Macron dissolving the parliament, like his spiritual father Napoleon did, doesn't help.

Also Macron has always been a hardcore left-wing authoritatian, there's nothing centrist about him. The only reason the left used to dislike him was his retirement reform. The truest "socialists who disagree on how to spend the stolen money" yet.

As long as the left and the center have no practical response to the concerns of the general population about mass immigration, woke insanity and the destruction and denigration of western culture, the far-right will continue to grow in popularity.

The obvious solution for mainstream politics is for the center to push back against the far-left positions they have allowed to become the status quo, and instead try represent the wishes of the majority of voters, but they're apparently too far gone to see it.

[imacrispian]

Si le pen gagne:

Si macron gagne :

[dailybehbeh]

Behbeh

[jloisse]

« Emmanuel Macron est un président minoritaire », déclare Marine Le Pen au lendemain du second tour des législatives. « La réforme des retraites à 65 ans est enterrée. »

[ssunvulcan1981]

French Presidential Elections Memes

[u-more]

(*) Sì, sono un Renzi che ce l’ha fatta.

[mariuskalander]

Tweeted

RT @EuropeElects: France, Elabe poll: Presidential election (ETF only) Le Pen (RN-ID): 31% (+7) Macron (RE-RE): 23% (-5) Mélenchon (LFI-LEFT): 18.5% (-3.5) ... Note: Macron is not allowed to run +/- vs. 2022 election Fieldwork: 3-5 April 2023 Sample size: 1,808 ➤ https://t.co/qOzl2nSVPC https://t.co/qiOS1foF76

— Mario Calandra (@MariusKalander) Apr 5, 2023