#It's not even about never including Lestat like I get it that most of his interactions are probably with him so it makes sense

[adamnablelittledevil]

Trying to talk to somebody about Louis outside of Lestat and making it very clear to the other person and they still keep talking about loustat. And on the very first reply. It wasn't even, like, a while later the conversation accidentally went to loustat. The person didn't even try, really. SMFH.

[cuntylouis]

I'm getting tired of hearing the sentiment that Louis doesn't care about Armand's trauma or have any sympathy for him. In the museum scene his expressions and body language were almost exactly similar to the scenes where Claudia and Lestat talk about their respective assaults. And in all these scenes he's mostly quiet. So does it mean Louis doesn't care about Claudia's or Lestat's traumas either? Of course not. It's just how he outwardly reacts in situations like this. He tends to shut down and doesn't know how to express his empathy and distress. Dreamstat represents Louis' hidden thoughts, but at the museum he's actually next to Louis listening quietly for the most of the scene. It's only at the end when Armand compares Marius, Magnus and Lestat to each other that dreamstat reacts angrily. And it's not mocking what happened to Armand, it's a manifestation of Louis' discomfort, him fearing that he's being manipulated and being uncomfortable that Lestat is brought up and that his relationship with Lestat is compared to Armand and Lestat's disturbing relationships with their own makers.

What Louis says to Armand in San Francisco is incredibly cruel. He's on drugs and extremely upset and intentionally trying come up with the most hurtful words he can think of, they both are. He very obviously deeply regrets it later. When he wakes up after the sun scene and remembers what he did and what kind of things he said before it he's ashamed and distressed. He's crying (though partially because of pain) and immediately tries to apologize to Armand and reach out for him. He's not angry when Armand leaves him in pain, probably thinking that he deserves it. When Armand later says "after what you put me through here i deserve this" Louis agrees. That's not someone who doesn't care or have empathy.

As often with Louis, i think the things he says to Armand are as much about Louis himself as they're about Armand. He sees himself in Daniel, and his entire speech to Claudia in 2.01 is directed also at himself, and he's projecting his own self-hatred and insecurities onto Armand. Louis fears that he is boring and dull. His husband repeatedly cheated on him and laughed in his face when Louis asked isn't he enough. During his depression years Lestat complained about Louis just reading and not leaving the house and how he was drawing Lestat into his gloom. He felt his sister-daughter was more interested in the theater and the coven than spending time with him. The coven mocked him and his passions and didn't find him that interesting after he stopped being a novelty. He was told that he didn't have much artistic talent. In the 70s his life seems to be repetitive and meaningless.

Louis subconsciously detests the qualities he recognizes in Armand that he recognizes and detests in himself - including being a victim. The interview was interrupted when Daniel criticized Louis for going back to Lestat and for his passivity and suicidal ideation. When he's fighting with Armand that all is on his mind. What he says about Armand's "daddy vampire grooming him into a little bitch" actually brings to my mind such scenes as how he derisively said in the second interview that he had become an unhappy housewife living with Lestat, and how dreamstat called him a "little whore". The shame of having experienced abuse and all the feelings of emasculation and degradation that came with it have never left him. Even in the second interview Louis firmly says to Daniel that he doesn't consider himself abused and that he isn't a victim. I don't think Louis consciously thinks that being abused makes someone a bad or weak person, but on some subconsious level he probably feels like that - at least if it's about himself. Again, in this same episode we see Louis acting like he deserves how Armand treats him after their fight and his suicide attempt

[i-arch-my-backula]

General relationship headcanons for Lestat De Lioncourt

Disclaimer, because I'm not done with the IWTV show just yet, I'm going to base this off the movie portrayal of Lestat, please don't be mad y'all, I just don't want to mischaracterize the Lestat in the show. But when I feel comfortable writing for him, I will be doing general relationship headcanons for him as well.

Content includes: GN reader, manipulation, you two have a nuanced relationship, blood drinking, not proof read

There are a myriad of ways you could meet Lestat. Some kind of ball or party, at an opera or play, or even just walking down the street. Either way, once he sees you, he's interested in you.

He'll start small, at least small for him. He doesn't want to scare you off, he wants you forever, which is why he has to wait for the right time to turn you.

In the mean time he needs to build up this relationship between the two of you, he'll keep his secret hidden for long enough, making excuses as to why you never meet each other during the day, why he's so pale, why he never eats around you.

But while he's doing all of this, growing closer to you, getting your trust, he's plotting a way to get you to be a vampire. If for some reason he didn't want you anymore, he'd just eat you, but he's obsessed, so he just has to wait for his time to shine.

And that moment comes when you hit rock bottom, at your most vulnerable you go to him, crying and inconsolable. He'll be there to comfort you, there to keep your hair out of your face, and there to offer you a taste of what immortal life has to offer.

All the while he's using all his sweet French pet names on you, holding you close, convincing you that turning into a vampire is the right choice, that it's the best option for you. Don't you want to be with him forever?

If you go willingly it's a sweet, tender moment. He'll hold you close and let you drink from his wrist, saying soft, gentle French words that show how proud he is that you chose him to be with for all eternity.

But, if you're not willing to go on your own, he might just have to do some more persuading. Either way you're getting turned by him and he'll make you feel good about it somehow, don't you worry mon amour.

Oh but once you're in an official relationship together he's going to treat you so well, or as well as a blonde French man can. He'll want to move in with you, if you have a place of your own. If you don't, no need to worry, he'll find you two a place.

He'll show you everything you need to know about being a vampire, how to hunt for your meals, how to avoid the sun, dealing with your new abilities, he's going to be your mentor, and your boyfriend.

You're also going to have to be mindful of his rules. He doesn't like loosing his temper and arguing with you, but sometimes you leave him no choice. He always needs some time alone after a fight, maybe a bite to eat, but he always comes around and apologizes for the argument.

I feel like it's canonical that Lestat is a slut, and he likes it. So naturally seeing you all bloody and messy after you eat is going to get him in the mood. You're going to show yourself with blood all over your mouth and clothes and expect a vampire to not get horny at the sight?

If you let him handle your wardrobe he's going to have a field day. Lestat has money to burn and he's going to ensure that you're dressed in up to date fashions that match his taste. "No, no, you can't mind purple and yellow, they don't go together."

Date nights are another special thing between the two of you. If Lestat is able to choose where you go for the date it'll be some place like an opera, hunting together, dancing at a ball, or just dancing alone together.

Lestat is also very particular about certain things. If you claim you can't dance he is going to be insistent about teaching you how to dance and he won't give up until you improve. He doesn't care how long it takes, you two have forever to learn how to dance. This goes with anything else he deems necessary for you to learn. If he wants you to learn how to play the piano by God he's going to teach you.

I feel like in very heated, emotional moments he's going to slip back into speaking French. If he's upset or just doesn't want you to know what he's saying is very romantic, he'll say it in French, hopefully giving you an incentive to try and learn French yourself if you don't already know it.

[thedailydescent]

The thing is though that it doesn't matter.

People clamor against the idea that Louis ever loved or even liked Armand, and that he was just with him out of fear/to protect Claudia. That narrative quickly falls apart when you look at how completely at ease he was with embarrassing Armand in front of the coven, the promise he made to Claudia that he broke when he tried burning Armand's photo, then couldn't because of the soul he managed to capture. The additional knowledge since 2x03 that Armand is heavily influenced by the coven and their demands, and even after a year and half of them being together, he is still so. How it would have made more sense, if Louis was just with him for survival's sake or to protect Claudia, to leave Paris with Armand already recommending that he leave with his blessing. Madeleine feeling Louis's love for Armand (which wasn't her misreading it as love for Lestat, and, as far as I'm aware, is not canon either). How the very premise of the interview is about Louis processing his grief for Claudia and how he failed her. How the writing, cast, and crew emphasize that Louis feels a certain amount of entitlement towards Claudia, how he never truly put her first despite his best efforts, and how that doesn't make Louis a bad person, but a person shaped by and is stuck in traumatic circumstances.

Same with people accusing Louis of using Armand/not loving Armand the "right way". 95% of garbage "pimp Louis" takes and fics with poor unloved helpless Armand suffering the most from their roleplaying or Louis's cruising. Nevermind what was actually shown onscreen, what the cast and crew tell us.

But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if Louis didn't do everything he could to protect Claudia. It doesn't matter if Louis was indeed a terrible partner to Armand (he wasn't btw). Nothing would have justified what Armand did to Louis and Claudia. Louis shouldn't have to be on 24/7 survival mode to avoid him and Claudia being lynched. If Louis had indeed been an awful person to both Claudia and Armand, he still wouldn't have at fault for the trial, or been the reason it happened. He is still the wronged party here. For the deception leading up to it, for the torture, for the racial trauma inflicted on him and past trauma used against him, for being buried and starved in rocks for days, for the murder of Claudia and Madeleine, and for the lies and manipulation 73 years afterwards. Louis doesn't need to be the perfect victim for Armand to still be the bad one. Armand could have prevented it at any time. Louis could not, nor should have had to.

Similar idea to people saying Louis never asked Armand to erase his memories. If we were to take burnt Louis taking a shower after three days as true (which I do), isn't the issue not, "It doesn't make sense therefore Armand is lying", but more, Armand's blood is so powerful it can heal a severely burnt person enough to be able to take a shower within a short period of time, yet he purposefully withheld it from Louis during those 5/6 nights in San Francisco? Or, Armand erased Louis's memories at Louis's request but also included said request for it, leaving him to rely on Armand on what is true and what isn't? Armand doesn't actually look any better here if he's telling the truth!

Likewise, since people parallel the two situations, some people were still questioning for months after Season 1 aired if Lestat had been telling the truth that he didn't kill Paul (which I always believed), that I guess Sam Reid grew impatient with that and finally said "Can we stop asking if Lestat killed Paul?!" or something. And it's true, Lestat didn't mind-control Paul to commit suicide. That still doesn't negate the fact that Lestat did get into Paul's head at dinner threatening him and his family, used his mental illness against him, leaving him frightened for Louis until the day he died. That still doesn't negate the fact that for 26 years, Lestat let Louis sit on whether he did or didn't. Louis died the day Paul was buried, but Lestat never comforted him about Paul, never brought up Paul, and changed the subject whenever Louis brought up his family. Lestat, in short, never considered Louis's grief or paranoia against him, nor cared to. For 26 years, he did not care.

[streussal]

i 100% agree with u about the fight, my question is why do you think they even included that scene? i don't feel like it tells us anything we don't already know & it gives ppl who dont remember the original scene opportunity to believe louis was the aggressor.. don't know how to feel about it to be frank

I got this ask after I made this post. Responding almost 4 days later so I don't know if the anon will see this, but I have some thoughts.

First of all, no matter how strongly a piece of media demonstrates who is the bad guy in a situation, there's always going to be people who side with the abuser, ESPECIALLY if the abuser is a white male and the victim is anyone other than a white male. Louis straight up said in the scene (LESTAT'S VERSION) "like you wrapped your hands around our daughter's neck" so it's pretty clear he's responding to Lestat attacking Claudia. On stage, Lestat goes off script and insists that it was wrong of him to drop Louis from the sky, and that afterwards Louis was "a broken thing. I know, I saw, because I am the one that broke him". He then follows this with the admission that he did it because Louis hurt his feelings, not because of any threats or violence from Louis: “I couldn’t persuade him to return my affections. I could force him to love me. And so, I broke him.” If people don't get that Lestat was in the wrong here, I don't think there's anything else the writers can do.

As for why I think the show gave us that scene:

Playing around with different points of view is neat, and showing different recollections of the same event is a recurring thing in this show. (I'm torn on whether this is Lestat's actual recollection or just something the coven added to make Louis look bad - see my interpretation that Lestat is being coerced into participating in the trial - but either way it plays into one of the themes of the series.) Yes showing the POV of an abuser could backfire if it falls into victim blaming but I think the show handled it very well (and there is a portion of the audience that is always going to see Lestat as the victim even when he straight up says he was the bad guy in a situation).

It shows Louis physically protecting Claudia AND prioritizing her over Lestat. One of the major criticisms of Louis is his failure to do either of these things, so I actually think it made a lot of people like him better. Most of the twitter reactions I saw, from people who accepted the scene as 100% fact, was people talking about how great it was that Louis was ready to kill the guy who hurt his daughter.

It allows Jacob Anderson to do something different! One of the reasons I'm suspicious of this version of events with Louis cackling is that I have not seen Louis act quite like that before. But Jacob definitely sold it! Makes me wonder if maybe this is yet another side of Louis! I don't know! It adds rewatch value.

The acknowledgement that Lestat dropping Louis from the sky really did do long term damage to Louis. Not just physically. He became "a broken thing" - there was serious psychological damage. After he got back together with Lestat, we never really saw him push back against Lestat again. A lot of his time in Paris is a reaction against being in an abusive relationship. (And then he gets in another one, which happens a lot in real life.)

But I think it's also significant that right after this scene, we saw Lestat's remorse. And a much more real apology than anything we saw in s1. Now obviously this does not fix anything. (Claudia highlights this - "Can I cry and say sorry too?" - She and Louis tried to kill Lestat and are on trial, Lestat nearly kills Louis and just gives an apology.) But it gives the possibility that perhaps Lestat has changed or realized that he needs to change. And given that the showrunner has repeatedly referred to Loustat as the central love story of the series (link)... we need to see that Lestat is not going to do the same thing again. We want him to be better for Louis. Not that it would ever be an entirely healthy relationship (they are vampires), but not "drop him the sky requiring months of recovery" level awful. (@awildwickedslip wrote an interesting post relating to this here)

[whatshehassaid]

The fact that they keep bringing in characters that are from later in the books (Bruce, Dr. Fareed, Raglan James) makes me think Dubai is farther along in the books than we realize. I feel like some stuff (akasha) hasn’t happened yet… but finding Claudia’s diary in New Orleans, and Louis being suicidal etc are from later in the book series. Has parts of Merrick already happened? Louis said in season 1 that he hadn’t killed since the year 2000. The book Merrick was released in 2000. Armand (as Rashid) “You’re chronicling a suicide.” The fact that they even HAVE Claudia’s diaries in the first place is farther along in the books.

Now why bring Raglan James in so early? I already have a feeling they aren’t bringing David in (they didn’t for Mayfair Witches and he was a big part of that) so why Raglan James SPECIFICALLY? Why not just some random Talamasca member? They’re trying to hint at what’s to come. Daniel being in his 70s and not having David in Mayfair Witches (or IWTV I’m assuming cause it wouldn’t make sense to have David in one but not the other) makes me think they’ve merged Daniel and David into one character.

If you know anything about what happens to David in Tale of the Body Thief you��ll understand where I’m going with this - I’ll put a spoiler warning for the books here.

At the end of Tale of the Body Thief, David gets a new body and Lestat changes him into a vampire without his consent.

If Daniel and David ARE being merged into one character (which makes sense considering David is the one who listens to Armand’s story in The Vampire Armand and the fact David was a main character in the Mayfair Witches book series but was merged with Rowan’s love interest to make Ciprien in the TV adaptation) then that means that something similar could happen to Daniel.

Armand in the books (after 10-12 years of a romantic - albeit it started off fucked up - relationship which includes Daniel being addicted to Armand’s blood and a mutual obsession between the two of them and then they fall in love) turns Daniel in 1985 I think the same night of Lestat’s concert and the awakening of Akasha if I’m remembering correctly. In the TV adaptation since the San Fransisco interview already happened that also means (quite obviously from the new promo) that Devils Minion already happened. Which means young Daniel tried everything on Earth to get Armand to change him into a Vampire. Probably bringing himself super close to death because he wanted to be with Armand forever. Armand has a major trauma from Marius (grooming, child slavery, sex slavery- but also Marius telling him over and over that every fledgling grows to hate their maker- lol ok dude, you literally groomed your first two fledglings from childhood and abandoned them both but yeah, that must be a every maker and fledgling thing). It affects Armand to the point that he vows never to turn ANYONE into a Vampire EVER. But then he meets Daniel and falls in love with him and can’t stand the thought of existing without him. So he turns him.

It seems like Armand in the show didn’t truly believe Daniel loved him. (They have a really wild relationship where Daniel will run away and come back begging for him back and Armand welcoming him with open arms over and over until Daniel finally accepts that he’s in love with Armand too). But Daniel DID love him. Just as much as Armand loved (and STILL loves- because he always will) Daniel. So instead of watching him be chronically suicidal and trying everything to get Armand to turn him he wiped Daniel’s memories thinking they wouldn’t come back. Thinking Daniel could live a normal human life without him.

From what I can see of the preview it seems like Armand and Louis had broken up long ago. Most likely after the first interview in the 70s (I’m pretty sure it’s similar in the book - Louis ends up leaving Armand once Armand tells him Lestat is still alive and he didn’t die in the theatre fire). Hence, Armand saying “I know where he is.” in the promo for 2x05.

That’s when Daniel and Armand fully happen. But in the show instead of turning Daniel he wipes his memories and tries to let him live a normal life because he loves him.

Now Lestat and Louis break up and get back together like ten fucking times in the books and Louis when he isn’t with Lestat always goes off alone or he goes to Armand. Lestat and Armand eventually come to love each other and have a mutual understanding and respect for one another - it takes a while, believe me. Lestat KNOWS he can trust Armand with Louis. That Armand loves Louis too.

What I’m thinking is going on… is some of the events of Merrick have already happened where Louis seeks out Claudia’s diaries and her spirit to try to bring peace to himself. Instead it makes it MUCH MUCH worse. To the point that Louis goes forward with killing himself by burning himself to ashes (Lestat does bring him back don’t worry). But since I think the full Akasha storyline hasn’t happened yet I feel like humans would’ve noticed that (hence the great conversion cause she ends up killing like 90% of the Vamp population…) I think what is actually happening is Louis is trying to kill himself. He’s actively trying by getting Daniel to write this book for vampires to come after him and kill him (hence the “you’re chronicling a suicide”). His depression and despair is getting worse and worse as season 2 goes on, outwardly crying to Daniel thanking him for helping him remember.

I’m not sure if Louis in Dubai knows that Lestat is alive… he certainly doesn’t during the first interview.

Armand is a complicated character and he means well (yes he does do some fucked up shit in the books- some to do with Claudia- I don’t know if they’ll have THAT part in the show). But Armand does love Louis. He feels guilt for what happened with Claudia and he will do ANYTHING to make it up to Louis. To the point of letting Louis walk all over him (he’s had a fucked up human life and vampire life, let my boy live). I have a feeling, since Lestat’s lawyer in Paris mentioned it to Louis that Lestat has gone to sleep. They do that sometimes. Bury themselves underground and sleep- sometimes for decades. If that is the case I’m not exactly sure what happened between them for Lestat to do that but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

What I think happened after the first interview? Armand was trying to protect Louis from himself. There are obvious signs of schizophrenia in Louis and they’ve been hinting at it since season one with the Paul/Bird symbolism. Louis has blackouts. He’s had them even before he and Claudia tried to kill Lestat- that’s why I think we’re getting a revisit to the fight in 1x05 and to Claudia’s turning into a vampire. Either that or we are going to get it from Lestat himself at the trial in Paris (cause yes, the real Lestat is there).

Armand was not lying when he said he protects Louis from himself. That Louis acts out sometimes. The photos of all the men I believe some of them are Louis’ victims from his blackouts. We’ve already seen a glimpse of one incident in season 2 with the man in the park and Louis leaving his dead body there. Armand has suppressed Louis’ memories of what happened in Paris. What happened with Claudia. Probably half because he doesn’t want Louis to run off without Lestat able to care for him and partly because he’s trying to prevent Louis from hurting more people viciously and then going into a guilt spiral.

Louis did know what happened to Claudia at one point… but I think it was making him so suicidal that maybe Armand and Lestat together decided it was best to have his memories suppressed so that he wouldn’t hurt himself. But now? Now Lestat is god knows where and Armand is barely holding onto control. Louis is lashing out at him. He’s lashing out at Daniel. The memories are flooding back and Louis is slowly remembering… not just what happened to Claudia… not just what Armand did… but the probably hundreds or thousands of gruesome deaths he’s caused during his blackout episodes. Including the blackout episode he had with Daniel in 1973.

Now speaking of 1973, Armand was trying even then to keep Louis’ schizophrenia and blackouts at bay. He was suppressing memories that triggered Louis - half because he didn’t want to lose Louis but I also think he genuinely was doing it for Louis’ own sanity. But then Louis goes seeking out someone who will let him speak about it and help bring those memories back - Daniel.

Armand may just think Daniel is another fuck and run, I have a feeling ever since Paris - even though Louis barely remembers it - honestly, probably before then going by the fuckboi tendencies Louis was displaying toward Armand in the last episode, he probably fucks around a lot and Armand lets him. Mostly because he’s trying desperately to make it up to Louis. As I said, he’s desperate to make it up to Louis.

So Armand says okay fine, have your fun. And Louis goes with Daniel. But what Armand DOESN’T know is that Louis isn’t going with Daniel for (or JUST for) sex. He wants him to help him remember. That’s the WHOLE POINT of the interview. Armand doesn’t know about it. The first interview happens…. And then? Daniel pisses Louis off. He triggers him off by asking him to turn him. And Louis blacks out and attacks.

Armand shows up mid attack to find Louis with the boy he spent ALL NIGHT WITH doing GOD KNOWS WHAT and he immediately thinks Louis is trying to replace him with someone else. He gets jealous. Again, he doesn’t know about the interview yet.

Louis blacked out and by that time its morning. Armand probably walked in on him (trying to be like - you’re going to get hurt if you don’t find a safe spot it’s morning!) feeding on Daniel and being burned through the sunlight coming in the window. Armand has jealousy issues. I can’t blame the guy he has a huge amount of abandonment issues and being hurt… so of course he immediately jumps to why is Louis spending all night with this boy? What is so special about this boy that he’ll spend time with him all night but he won’t even look at me the same anymore (since Claudia).

Louis has to hide from the sun… And that’s when Armand jealously curious about this human boy and why Louis is apparently so open with him from what he seen at the bar. He tries to get inside Daniel’s head. “Is that what makes you so FASCINATING?” “Leave him be Armand!”

At some point - with all this mind fuckery which of course is essentially torture and poor Daniel is probably half horny half scared to death - iykyk - Armand sees the tape. He plays it. This isn’t about the boy at all. It’s about LESTAT.

It’s always been about Lestat.

Upset (and rightly so - imagine being with someone for that long thinking they loved you and meanwhile they were still pining for their ex) he has a bit of a meltdown…. And when he calms down enough… he’s defeated and tells Louis the truth. That Lestat is alive and “I know where he is.”

Now… Armand… who is a stickler for the vampire laws… knows he’s tortured this boy… knows this boy can’t living knowing that vampires exist. Because he’s seen into his head he knows there’s pain there. Daniel is an addict for a reason though I don’t think Armand knows the reason at that point… but since he knows the boy MUST DIE because you cannot tell a human about vampires and let them live… he offers him a peaceful death. “I’m the quiet you’ve been longing for”

Daniel agrees. The kid is tired, he probably has childhood trauma hence the drug addiction. He was just attacked by one Vampire and tortured by the other.

Armand starts to drain him… and then?

I think Armand sees himself in Daniel. Whatever it is (I’m not 100% sure - maybe abuse of some kind) stops Armand from killing him. He’s found someone who understands.

He gets Louis (partly burned from the sun) to help him carry Daniel out. Not sure if they take him to a hospital or where they take him but afterwards Louis leaves Armand and goes looking for Lestat.

That’s when Devils Minion happens.

Armand and Daniel somehow fall in love. And a decade later he has to wipe Daniel’s memories because Daniel will not stop until he’s either dead literally or a vampire so he can be with Armand. Or so he says, Armand thinks.

Now fast forward and we have Louis self destructing. Armand trying to hold the pieces together… Louis brings Daniel in not remembering he almost killed the guy and thinking, “Well he can help me get these memories back… i know he’s Armand’s ex and he (Daniel) is missing memories too. maybe if I get his memories back we can help each other”

That’s why Louis keeps bringing things up. Daniel’s mind has filled in a decade of his life with a wife and daughter that probably don’t even exist. (I know, I know Alice is Armand theory… but the farther we get the more it makes sense). Louis is PURPOSEFULLY triggering memories to come back in Daniel so he can help HIM remember too. Armand (until last episode I think) was so focused on keeping Louis together and trying to protect him that he doesn’t even realize that Daniel is remembering him.

Until 2x04.

Daniel brings up the fire.

Armand tries to read his mind to see where he got the information from.

And he sees a flash of himself watching TV in the 70s. And that’s when he realizes Daniel DID love him. If Daniel didn’t why would he be getting flashes of Armand. Not of Louis and the first interview… not of Louis attacking him… no, he’s getting flashes of Armand.

Then he remembers that he suppressed Louis’ memory of everything to do with Claudia’s death (Louis’ main trigger). Louis confused: “the fire?”

As Daniel’s memories come back… so do Louis’. However the more Louis remembers the more unstable he’ll become. I think at a certain point when he remembers everything the suicidal part of him with reach a climax… he’ll snap. Blackout with Daniel in a parallel of what happened in 1973. And Armand is going to have no choice but to save Daniel. I feel like Lestat will sense this happening and I feel like it’ll be the PERFECT segue for present time Lestat. Now will Daniel be hurt badly? I’m not sure. Will Armand have no choice but to change him because Louis hurt him too much, maybe tried to drain him to “get back” at Armand after realizing what was happening?

Is that why Jacob is scared we may hate Louis by the end of the season? I feel like if it was just Louis trying to walk into the sun that comment wouldn’t make sense.

If he tries to hurt Daniel though…..

[savagewildnerness]

Let’s talk about the Theatre Des Vampires & its potential impact!?!

First Lestat: pretty sure Lestat is a vampire here: he has the eyes, the nails & Armand is watching him. (Why would Armand watch mortal-Lestat? Unless watching Magnus and I’m sure we won’t see Magnus this season.) And that back bend has all the vibes of Lestat describing how as a vampire he can do impossibly graceful dance movements if he so chooses! (To delight and beguile, or so inhuman as to disturb!)

BUT book-Lestat does not theatre once he is a vampire. There’s only that one time that goes horribly wrong. To me, this does not look like it’s going horribly wrong!?! It looks like Lestat is still being “the greatest actor to have ever graced the stage”…??

Book-Lestat is horrified by vampire theatre. Including himself on the stage! He used to love how theatre conveyed something human & true & real. He felt it was a truly *good* think he could do. Being unable to read, human Lestat did a lot of improvised theatre (& Nicki taught him lines for some plays later on) - I’d argue improvisation being the most spontaneous & human theatre can get… so he finds it even moreso repellent how false it is as a vampire.

Compelled to go out on stage, Lestat looks out & sees a grinning skull behind every face. He feels he cannot find the natural, human meaning in words that was so instinctive to him when mortal. In the theatre, Lestat’s love as a mortal, Lestat truly feels what he has lost & will now never be. He could beguile & trick, but instead he intentionally horrifies the audience & himself - I think he does it `s he is so personally horrified and yet as theatre always was, still it must remain a place of truth for him? In the moment, there on stage, he realises his inhumanity and sees himself almost from outside himself as a horrific (though perfectly natural) monster “the mortal world seemed some desperate dream of rationality that in this lush and fetid jungle had not the slightest chance.” He sees himself like a cat or a rat or the evil vampire he is - he is a creature, but he is not human.

Until this point, other than when killing, Lestat has passed himself off easily amongst mortals as one of them. Yet, here on the stage he feels the Monster he is & cannot bear the artifice and the difference to what he once was, what he had the potential to be and what he was on the cusp of becoming. The theatre is like a reminder to him that his human life is over. This is a quality he will later be unable to bear in Nicki’s virtuoso violin skill once he becomes a vampire too. Nicki leans right in to the parody & evil manipulation of skill as opposed to mortal expression of humanity & performing with the devil’s instrument. Nicki finds a purity and truth in that & it’s the antithesis of what Lestat adored from & felt in Nicki’s mortal violin playing. Just as mad-Vampire-Nicki is the antithesis of all Lestat loved & they immediately despise each other (albeit Lestat will never truly not love too.)

Anyway, back to just-turned Lestat: at the same time, it’s Lestat’s *need* to return to the theatre that is really Nicolas’ downfall. Nicki was always fragile, and moreso when Lestat was stolen away. And of course when Armand kidnaps Nicki he is completely mad & unsaveable by then. But he had a small chance at some life... until this visitation to the theatre by Lestat, where Nicolas truly sees for his own eyes that something awful has befallen Lestat & he doesn’t understand it & nobody but him will believe it as they just want to believe Lestat the wondrous benefactor who has gifted them so much money and the theatre and charms everyone still.

This is in my opinion the point of no return for Nicki. He is a mad thing who I don’t think has any way back to sanity and life from here on. Gabrielle recognises it already even where Lestat cannot admit it to himself when she asks Lestat if he'll turn Nicki. At that time Lestat says he is appalled by the idea... but obviously he would have thought on it. Once Lestat showed his vampire self to Nicki, Nicki’s mortal life was done for. He begins drinking to extreme excess & cannot cope with life at... and this is before Armand snatches him.

Now, if the show have Lestat at the theatre for longer & actually using his skills to trick audiences for a while, will the impact this has on (presumably still mortal) Nicki be even deeper? It surely would be given the scenario…? And so will Lestat feel even more guilt o we Nicki’s eventual downfall? I can almost see it in my mind playing out now. Lestat using his vampiric skill to beguile audiences for a time, Nicki grieving increasingly mad & all the other people at the theatre merely adoring Lestat & not wishing to see anything wrong. And maybe even Nicki wanting to believe in moments that all is well? But really, Nicki growing increasingly fragile until, as in the books Armand steals him away. I just feel like something like this might be in the TV show and I feel that it could be an interesting deepening of the emotion (although it would alter Lestat in the theatre a little and the impact of the theatre to Lestat's self… but then, that was Lestat’s thoughts and horror as a new vampire. He feels very differently by the time he becomes a rock star… so…?!)

And this ties in: the recent clips suggest Claudia loves the theatre & Louis hates it. Louis always hated the callousness of the theatre, but Claudia loved it mainly as a clever way to ensnare victims. In the theatre in the book she is immediately in danger. Will this be different feelings here. This older Claudia may initially love the idea of joining the theatre! It may appeal to her nature! But oh, what awaits her…

Anyway: just some train-of-thought ponderings….

Anyone have thoughts on this?

[faithandfairies]

I love the conversation Louis and Lestat have in 2x08. Because it's such a turning point. It's the most vulnerable both have ever chosen to be with each other where they are both receptive to each other's openness and vulnerability at the same time.

Up to this point according to Louis point of view Lestat has made a mockery of any real emotion, any real conversation Louis has wanted or tried to have with him in the past. He has made jokes when he should have been sincere. And the times he himself has tried to be vulnerable, which includes 2x07, it has been in a crowd or situation where Louis couldn't really ask follow-up questions or show genuine sympathy. And other times when you could tell Lestat was about to get emotional in private with Louis he would steer the conversation in a different direction in order to keep that from happening.

Louis for his part has never truly opened up to Lestat, probably afraid of being mocked for it by him which happened when he tried. But also seeing vulnerability as a sign of weakness and something to be avoided at all cost.

It's very sad because all Lestat has ever wanted was for Louis to love him and fully open up to him but the way Lestat conducted himself was the very thing that helped prevent Louis opening up to him and letting him in completely. Louis never felt safe enough to do so.

It reminds me of this quote from one of my favorite books "The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo" by Taylor Jenkins Reid

"People think intimacy is about sex. But intimacy is about truth. When you realize you can tell someone your truth, when you can show yourself to them, when you stand in front of them bare and their response is 'You're safe with me'- that's intimacy."

The only time we see a glimpse of actual vulnerability from Lestat before 2x08 in private, not public, is Louis and Lestat's last night together before Claudia and Louis try to kill him.

Lestat standing with Louis on that balcony he spent nights waiting for Louis on, spouting poetic musings about New Orleans. He looks like he's about to burst into tears and tell Louis that he knows about their plan but he is speaking in riddles and Louis doesn't understand and eventually he just let's it go before he starts crying.

But in 2x08, they both go there. And you can see Lestat considering not going there in real-time. When he asks if Louis hurt himself it's this burning question I'm sure he's been walking around with for decades. And he may have half convinced himself Armand lied to him. That Louis wasn't actually hurt.

But he still has to know for certain. At the same time he's also terrified of the truth. So he stumbles out the date and time. And the moment he does Louis starts tearing up which immediately confirms the horrifying truth for him. Louis did try to hurt himself. And it was about Claudia. And then he starts crying in earnest.

This is a man that forced a girl to stay with her father so that the likelihood of him offing himself would lessen considerably. Even if it made him even more the monster in their eyes than they already saw him as. Even if that was the last drop that made Claudia start to plot his demise.

[ca-suffit]

I know lestat is our enemy but the amount of armand's fans villianizing Louis rn and saying he deserved everything bc of ep 5 argument, not to mention the "pimp" thing.

It's not Lestat himself who is an enemy, it's white fandom. All of these characters as characters are telling an amazing story and have so many satisfying layers to pick through. It's the fandom's inability to include race in any discussions that make everything fucked to ever talk about. It's also fandom's insistence on making everything about picking a "side" instead of enjoying things as a whole. All these pieces fit together.

Ppl need to examine their antiblackness to rly take a look at why Louis and Claudia never get any sympathy for anything and are always somehow the aggressors or schemers. Every vampire comes from trauma, Louis says that in S1. Trauma can come out ugly. Wanting to be loved but feeling unlovable. Everything is a void. Everything is boring. I'm boring. ur boring. I hate myself. I hate u.

America runs on antiblackness. Dehumanizing black lives is every day. It's shit but not surprising that ppl can't feel empathy for black characters. That they will prioritize the abusive, brown character who has two side involvements with white characters (both "seen" to some degree within this episode) over the black character visibly being abused the most (...again). Instead of seeing someone spiraling from guilt and depression, there has to be a "reason" he "deserved" all of this. We can't have nuance here. We can't say Armand and Louis *both* are struggling to survive each other. No, Louis is just "mean" and showing his "true colors." The pimp angle is even fucking lazier. This fandom has been running with that since the first casting announcement. BORING. YOU ARE SO BORING.

First we demonized Armand because white fandom didn't want an interracial couple that didn't include a white person to exist and thrive on any level. U can stan Lestat's abuse but not Armand's. Now we can luv Armand for his abuse because Devil's Minion Omg, he talked to Lestat Omg, and also Louis prbly deserved this "idk lol." Can't we be normal about fucking anything?? "They're all monsters" like everyone luvs to say, and that's true, but can u specify in what ways? or is that just an excuse to not examine ur racial biases?

[positively--speculative]

Sorry to make this rant again, but there's more to the gothic genre than just "dark and twisted fucked up stuff." And I think the mindset that it is probably comes from being exposed to it at a time when you're not ready to consume it.

I had several friends and acquaintances in my late teens and early twenties who liked/loved Anne Rice. Only one of those friends recognized how fucked up some of her writing and approach to certain sensitive topics were. When I finally did read Interview with the Vampire and The Vampire Lestat, I found myself waiting for some sort of moment where the writing would make it clear that many situations are, in fact, unsavory and awful...but they never are. Daniel doesn't interrupt Louis about the slavery. Nothing pushes back against Lestat or Gabrielle for the incest. It just happens and the reader just has to accept it. And when you have bright-eyed teens and early twenty-somethings wanting to delve into the subject of gothic literature and vampires without having been introduced to better-written gothic stories, they just kind of accept it and pat themselves on the backs for being able to enjoy something so "mature."

I know I've mentioned Crimson Peak before, but it's amazing how it just...does such a better job at not only including disturbing things but at framing them. No, it doesn't beat the audience over the head to explain why incest and seducing multiple wealthy women into marriage to murder them for their fortunes is horrific. We see things from Edith's point of view, so we are therefore able to fall in love with Thomas just as much as she does, and we can feel her horror when she finds out the truth about him and his sister. Their incest is never romanticized. And the disturbing part is knowing that Thomas has actually fallen in love with Edith--because it shows that someone who has done such horrible things can still have the ability to fall in love with someone and hurt them. Yes, Lucille was pulling most of the strings, but he was not blameless.

Anne Rice's writing, to me, talks down to readers who are, rightfully, disturbed by these kinds of things and it seems to reward apathy. It's like she was giving gold stars to readers who can just consume gross stuff and be unphased. And I kind of wish that her writing was treated as just shock porn rather than reading that challenges her readers intellectually because they really don't do anything to challenge her fans. I'm not begrudging her the "gothic" title, but I will say her gothic books are not really good at all aside from making some interesting characters. And it was because of her interesting characters that I was actually excited when the TV adaptation was announced, but I knew as soon as it was announced Louis would be Black that Rice's fans were going to be on their shit.

I think it says a lot that the show created a better gothic story than Rice ever did, and I think a lot of white fans resent it for that, because the show is asking them to think and be challenged in a way Rice never did. Even the ones who claim to like the show resent Black fans for "bringing race into everything" when one of the show's most central themes is race and racism. Maybe it's mean to keep saying they have the media literacy of a peanut, but there's no way to talk about this adaptation *without* bringing up race. But I really don't think they get that, because they're used to racism just happening (again, Louis was a racist slave owner in the book) without being made to pause and examine it.

[monstersinthecosmos]

As a fellow Marius lover, I always find it kind of disheartening how most of the content/fandom talk about him (meta, fic, fanart, etc.) revolves around m/m ships (Marius/Armand in particular but I’d even go as far to include Marius/Daniel here) when, in my opinion, Marius is like the one male character in the VC universe whose relationships with women are far more interesting than his relationships with other men (the only other character might be Lestat but even then it’s pretty 50/50). They’re so monumental and so full of complexities and pain and so much love and they define him and inform his character in ways that I think, his relationships with men simply do not. Interesting/hot under the right circumstances? Sure but like ARE YOU GUYS SEEING THIS MAN??? AND HOW HE RELATES TO WOMEN??? It’s one of the best things Anne ever wrote and I can never get enough of it and it makes me sad how little content there is of it and I feel I can never say this out loud because I would never want to make people feel bad about what they ship (truly not my intention here) but ugh SO MUCH potential there for life changing discourse and meta about Marius and the women he’s loved and lost and have shaped who he is and there’s like… nothing.

Tl;dr the reason I’m sending this ask is because I’m a firm believer that you must be the change you want to see in this world and because YOU get it! And every time you post or write about Marius/Pandora (or Marius/Akasha! Or talk about Marius/Bianca) an angel gets its (black) wings. You are seen, you are loved and appreciated tysm <3

OKAY FIRST OF ALL THIS WAS SUCH A DELIGHT TO GET IN MY INBOX, SECOND IM GOING TO BE COMPLETELY HONEST AND ADMIT I FEEL TOO INCOHERENT TO TACKLE THIS TOPIC HAHA. I don’t feel articulate enough to do it justice. And I don’t say that to be obnoxious and self deprecating but like in all honesty idk how to synthesize it neatly but I think you’re sharing some GREAT IDEAS. 

I have to say this in bullet points because I don’t feel equipped to string this into a cohesive post:

Marius was based on Anne’s husband, and Marius/Pandora was based on their marriage!!!!! And I think it explains a lot about why their relationship feels so fuckin POTENT to me, like it’s so genuine!!!!!!! And like knowing that I think it makes sense why she wrote him so HOT lol. Like she’s just writing thirsty stuff about her husband right? LOL

Also like insofar as there’s a lot of genderfluidity in VC there’s also something vaguely misogynist about it at times. And Anne Rice was a mega feminist and her work had so much womens lib in it!!!!! So I don’t think it’s intended as misogyny at all vs. Anne having conversations about gender and maybe her own relationship to gender. I think enough characters have said vaguely misogynist stuff that it makes me think it’s an Anne Problem vs being Watsonian. (This is also a historical/time period issue and we can discuss another time if and when vampires are supposed to break out of that when they transcend humanity and social constructs even when they’re still saying weird sexist shit at their big ages.) But I say that to say all VC characters are a tad sexist, even if perhaps she was writing with the intention of her own male power fantasy/male superiority/penis envy. AND THAT MAKES MARIUS VERY INTERESTING. 

Cause like really the three main ladies in his life (Akasha, Pandora, Bianca) DO define him so much! And we don’t see him pine for Armand the way he did for any of them! Why!!!

Like there’s that aspect of sexism where women can be infantilized by men who don’t think they’re being unkind and it makes me wonder, especially when the author is a boomer, like where is that line between condescension and respect? I don’t have an answer here, this is too big-brained for me LOL but like he is SO devoted to the women in his life and I just wonder like if he sees them as creatures unlike himself, you know? 

This is headcanon territory but I bet he’s such a fucking sub to Pandora lol and it just thrills me that he spent 2000 years begging Akasha for affection and she ignored him the whole damn time wow. And he continued to simp!

AND ALSO LIKE, I think people DO NOT DISCUSS THIS OFTEN ENOUGH, but did we forget that he chose Armand because he needed a Bianca rebound? He was absolutely TORTURED by his love for Bianca and picked Armand because he didn’t want to kill her oh my god. Oh my god!!! HE KEPT HER LETTER IN HIS POCKET OVER HIS HEART OKAY??? HE DIDN’T WANT TO DRAG HER INTO HIS COLD AND FATAL DOMAIN????? Fuck lol

It’s so fucked up that he didn’t go after Armand but spent like actual fucking millennia trying to find Pandora. HE KNEW EXACTLY WHERE ARMAND WAS AND LEFT HIM THERE LOL BUT PANDORA HAUNTED HIM EVERY NIGHT OF HIS LIFE FOR CENTURIES.

After everything he wound up spending like 200 years with Bianca or something and ?????? CORRECT because Bianca was the fledgling he actually wanted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But it’s odd, I know I’ve said this 337589235 times, but Marius like. Has an idea of the person he wants to be and he tries SO HARD to live by logic & reason and he just can’t reconcile with the fact that he has EMOTIONS. And so like part of the person he wants to be like, open/empathetic/wise and he begs his lovers/students/fledglings to CHALLENGE HIM when he’s not actually healed enough to be challenged? And to me there’s something kinda like, extra spicy about it when you’re in Rice World and you’re a lil sexist; how much that burns EXTRA when it’s Pandora or Bianca sticking up to you or AKASHA FUCKIN IGNORING YOU. 

Just really incredible that this person who is like the epitome of a patriarch has such fucked up relationships with all the women in his life. And like he underestimates these women, like the way he tries to manipulate Bianca and she leaves him! PANDORA AND AKASHA ARE UNAVAILABLE TO HIM AND BIANCA FUCKIN LEAVES.

akasSHA JUST IGNROING HIM!! JUST STRAIGHT UP FUCKIN IGNORING HIM FOR 2,000 YEARS!!!! HE'S OBSESSED WITH HER!

Anyway Enkil is ignoring him too but he doesn’t give a shit about that guy tbh lol 

Also the amount of space he gives Eudoxia and Zenobia in his book like there’s more here too but tbh it’s midnight and I can’t start unpacking. I just think like, in 2000 years it’s interesting how Eudoxia wound up having such a lasting impact on his life. 

I did just peek at the Eudoxia part and I’m dying, he goes “Her face was small, oval, and as close to perfection as anything I've ever beheld, even though she bore no resemblance to Pandora who was for me perfection itself.” CERTIFIED WIFE GUY.

What kinda mommy issues are we dealing with here? HIS MOTHER WAS A SLAVE THAT DIED IN CHILDBIRTH AND HE INHERITED HER GENES AND LOOKED LIKE HER AND DIDN’T LOOK LIKE HIS FATHER & BROTHERS? AND HE’S SORT OF AN OUTCAST AS A HUMAN LIKE ? THE STIGMA HERE? AND THEN HE SPENDS 2000 YEARS WORSHIPPING HIS NEW MOTHER??? PERHAPS YOU COULD SAY ENSLAVED TO HER? IDK MAN. 

IS THIS ALSO WHY HE WAS SO OBSESSED WITH LOSING PANDORA?

The irony too, and something I think a lot of people miss, is that he DIDN’T WANT TO MARRY PANDORA LOL. He wanted to be betrothed to a child so that he could FUCK OFF and NOT get married because she wasn’t old enough to get married! He fucked off! He went exploring! He said this is not for me! 

AND TO GO OUT INTO THE WORLD AND BE MURDERED BY HIS MOTHERS PEOPLE???? IDK. 

I’m not sure how these last two points tie into anything but I just wanted to mention his complicated relationship with Pandora and his own heritage lol. And then Akasha like DELIVERS Pandora to him because she’s like “wow this guy needs somebody lol and I am not emotionally available” — Akasha who was famously a violent genocidal radfem and who would not approve of his relationship with Armand but explicitly allowed him to have Pandora and Bianca. IDK WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN! 

Did Akasha approve of these women because she knew Marius was completely pussywhipped and would worship them and she wanted to see someone mommydom the fuck out of him and she knew that Armand would never be that person? 🫢

And again I want to say like, taking the author into consideration!! Anne Rice had a HORRIFIC relationship with her mom so you see these themes pop up occasionally in her work. DESPITE ALL OF THAT SHE IS STILL A FEMINIST AND WRITES ABOUT MATRILINEAR FAMILIES like The Great Family or the Mayfairs. But thinking about Mothers in Anne Rice Works makes me think a lot about this like, the damage they can do and the voids they can leave even when you’re a feminist and love women! You see a TON of this with Gabrielle and I always think that Lestat & Marius are such similar characters that you can do a lot of extrapolating or backwards engineering to ask questions about them and how they work, since we get SO MUCH Lestat POV in this series to work with and how we can zoom out sometimes and ask like, what is common across her entire body of work and what is more specifically common between Lestat & Marius and WHAT EVEN MORE INTERESTINGLY is a result that they were both based on her husband in their inceptions. 

Like how much of this has to do with Marius’s actual feelings towards men vs women on purpose, or how much was subconscious author bias, how much was simply that Anne Rice based him on her husband and she was THIRSTY, idk. It’s always hard to say in VC because Anne was such an intuitive and self-indulgent author and the stories are so weird!!! So your mileage may vary!

But I agree with you that these are FASCINATING relationships!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I like Marius/Armand too (I recently made a post about how I didn’t “””””ship”””” them but then I spent 2 months working on a M/A fic every day and now I think I’ve corrupted and converted myself LMAO) but yeah like. There’s such a lack of substance between them in the end. He treats Armand like he’s temporary, fucks up and moves on, and it’s such a departure from how DEVOTED he was with all his other partners. 

Wow I didn’t think I had a lot to say, sorry about that. !!! EVERY TIME I BROUGHT A POINT UP I THOUGHT OF 5 MORE POINTS GOSH I COULD TALK ABOUT MARIUS ALL DAY.

[cuntylouis]

omg thank you for that ask, i complained about this to another fan yesterday on here because they were already complaining about the fandom and they acted super dismissive about my concerns of the show sidelining louis and all of a sudden having the money to market the show… plus rolin basically admitting during season 2 that amc had greenlit the show with the prospect of reaching tvl, like this is all documented and yet (white) people get mad when somebody points this out (this person’s followers literally asked them to tag the asks as fandom discourse).

its really sad to see this show turn into the likes of good omens, ofmd in terms of fandom white shenanigans but also the way the creators have been acting way more enthusiastic about the next season than the season that just ended a month ago is just very disheartening and it must be even more frustrating for the leads of color given that delaney and assad were barely asked any relevant questions during interviews at sdcc. also the way fans have been treating any criticism of this as “discourse” or “drama” because now finally they have a white protag and can see themselves reflected on him, now finally the poc can leave the room and we can have fun with our white fave all we want :)

idk it’s just sad that everyone not only rolin is treating this show like now FINALLY the real show they all wanted all along is starting, we just had to put with the wokeness and drama first 🙄

Not the good omens and ofmd comparison, the two most annoying fandoms sfjdk. So true about fans dismissing any criticism as discourse or drama. Personally my main issue is with the marketing department and parts of the fanbase and i have a bit more trust in Rolin. I don't think he would've chosen to include themes of racism and abuse so heavily in the first two seasons if they didn't genuinely interest him, and we know that putting Lestat in every episode in s2 was something that the network demanded and they had to come up with dreamstat, implying that Rolin himself would've included Lestat less if it was his decision. But he does say some weird and irritating stuff sometimes that makes me go dude what are you even talking about i hope you're joking. We'll see is he worth my cautious trust

I think this season we've really suffered from the lack of black and other non-white interviewers and critics having access to the show and cast. Like Autumn's videos were fun enough but they could never replace something like Naomi's podcast in s1 which was cancelled. It's actually crazy how the themes of race and racism though maybe less explicit were just as strong this season as in s1, but almost no one outside of non-white fans on tumblr and twitter talks about it. Like everything that happened to Louis and Claudia this season, concluding to actual public lynching, is inextricable from their race (and i'm 100% sure it was intentionally written that way) but it's like it doesn't even cross all those mostly white interviewers and critics and hosts' minds to ask about it. Like as someone with South Asian heritage living in a white majority and racist as hell country if i got to interview Assad literally my first question would be how Armand's Indian backgroud influences his character and experiences and how he and other characters perceive it. I mean i don't think you need to be non-white to ask questions about stuff related to race, but unfortunately lots of white people aren't really interested in it or think about it all

[redflagtag01]

finalboybyers is heart_byers on Twitter (tw: rape, pedophilia, and abuse).

When they post about Henry and Will, likening them to Father and Mother, Hades and Persephone, Hannibal and Will, Lestat and Louis, Villanelle and Eve, and other romantic fated pairs, they're trying to semi-subtly get more people on the Henwill train.

Don't believe me? Take it from Yarrow themselves (Tweet's date is May 20 and their first Tumblr post is soon after on June 5):

They don't censor their tweets in any fashion and they have a public account, which makes them easy to find when conducting a regular content search about either character, the cast, or simply looking in the Quotes of popular tweets. You don't have to be a proshipper or devils sacrament attendee to find them—they're out there in the open.

They're a proshipper that enjoys child/adult relationships, uses pictures of Noah where he is as young as eleven in their fantasies, ships Henry and Will romantically, and habitually posts explicit sexual and romantic content about them, all of which feature both Will and Noah as minors.

The ages listed on both accounts and their general speech patterns are the same. They post about the same parallels, same ideas, and same desires for the pair. They react to the same things and share their same findings at similar times. Their Tumblr is practically the exact same as their Twitter, just with more sugarcoating, denial of this behavior, and less explicitly romanticized rape.

I found that they tend to post first on Twitter and then refine it into a more elaborate post on Tumblr, but not always. Here are some examples:

It's the same user. If you can stomach that content and decide to see for yourself, then you'll note the similarities listed above and many more (assuming they don't go private or change usernames). Seriously, you will find every parallel and complaint on both accounts, as well as the same typing style and manner of speaking.

Using pictures or the likeness of real minors should never accompany such fantasies. They don't use drawings with no resemblance to real children; that is a real child plastered all over their account(s), and his name is Noah Schnapp. They're using his likeness from when he was a minor, anywhere from eleven to sixteen, when picturing Will and Henry as a couple, as one can see based on their Tweets. Here are some examples (Likes, Retweets, and one of their own) to get the point across swiftly (though they do have their own similar Tweets too):

If you wouldn't feel comfortable with someone thinking of any random non-famous child that way, why would it be okay in this instance?

The fact that they romantically ship Henry/Vecna/001 and Will is clear from the way they speak about them in their Tumblr posts and Tweets, the way that they liken them to romantic ships or dynamics while admitting to there being a romantic element (which is in line with their many Tweets, some below), but just in case you weren't already aware… now you know.

If you're turned on by minors and/or enjoy thinking of them in that way, then you need to seek help. Pedophilia can't be cured, but it can be treated with therapy. That isn't a kink—it's a paraphilia that is one act upon that desire away from being a psychiatric disorder. You wouldn't even have to interact with a child to reap criminal consequences; just producing or consuming any visual depiction of their engagement in a sexual act is a crime itself—and yes, that includes fan art and cartoon depictions.

Most people understand there's a difference between fiction and reality—ergo, enjoying the drama of a fictional abusive ship does not mean you support abuse in real life. However, things change when real minors are involved in sexually explicit materials. No child should be spoken of or viewed that way by adults that should and do know better. Noah could not have consented to have his pictures, or his likeness, used in this manner, and he likely still wouldn't. Children cannot consent and have the right to exist in the world without being sexualized by adults.

Will is fictional, but Noah is real and his underage likeness is the face of their fantasies. Artwork of Will engaged in sexually explicit conduct would be illegal and considered obscene under the federal law of the United States. Such content is illegal to produce, distribute, receive, or possess, and those convicted could be fined and imprisoned. Historically, this has even extended to textual depictions, too.

There's a reason why it's prohibited on many platforms, why these specific proshippers get suspended and have to remake accounts multiple times, and it isn't because evil conservative "antis" are "kinkshaming" the oppressed proshippers again. The material they produce and share is obscene by legal definition. They're not only picturing Noah's underage face in their mind and their works when they romanticize Will being raped and groomed, but they're proving that by always using pictures of him when he was underage, and only those underage pictures.

Yarrow admits to having interest in and consumed such prohibited materials, as noted by this Liked Tweet, and their own admission (one of many):

The fact that Will is a child and was played by someone with a baby-face is a deliberate and crucial part of the appeal to these people. The corruption of a child's innocence and naïveté, tarred by sexual exploit, sinister intentions, and his lack of consent, is all Henwill's charm (and they say this themselves in Tweets added below). It doesn't work if Will is aged up to an adult and that's why he never is in their fantasies. He has to be a child, helpless and pure and preyed upon, and he has to look like Noah's eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, and sixteen year old self.

They know that it's pedophilic and that's what they like about it. That's the entire point (again, see for yourself beneath the cut). That's why they shamelessly Tweet about it, but deny it here on this platform, where they [hopefully] are not among like-minded company.

I've included an array of tweets that show they do not view Henwill in a platonic fated enemies fashion and never have—no matter how many times they deny this now. You may notice similarities between those Tweets and their posts, how they "refined" their Tweets into something more palatable, as I mentioned earlier. Read at your own risk, but this should be available for viewing to all unless they change their Twitter handle, go private, or delete/unlike them.

There will always be people who become involved after being exposed to this content, but if you already liked to think of children that way, then there wasn't anything anyone could've done to deter you. Pedophilia is resistant to treatment—a Tumblr post wouldn't have cured you and you would've found this eventually. Still, I have blocked out usernames to prevent further exposure. With this post, I hope to inform others who don't share this paraphilia and who were unknowingly helping spread their thinly veiled pedophilic content.

If you cannot stomach explicit pedophilia or rape, then do NOT continue reading this post or visit their Twitter.

[savagewildnerness]

I’ve been thinking about Rolin Jone’s adaptation of Interview with the Vampire and self acceptance.  

Let’s look at our main characters: Louis, Lestat, Armand, Claudia and Daniel…

You may disagree with my pondering, but I’m really curious to hear anyone’s thoughts! I thought maybe we could have a little discussion...?

As I see it...

Louis: struggles to accept his full self.

- For all the anger and violence at the core of himself.  He is afraid to look too far internally in case what he might find would be too terrifying, so instead he tries to be morally good in action.

Lestat: struggles to feel his self is worthy of love or acceptance from others.

- Lestat feels he is *too much* and there is something inherently *wrong* and flawed with himself.  He accepts and likes himself, even while acknowledging (& often revelling in) his bad, evil and negative sides, but he struggles to feel he deserves love because of how often he has been told he is wrong and unloveable and because of the *evil* side he knows is part of him.

Armand: struggles to know who his self is.

- Armand has the most traumatic of all the vampires’ backstories.  And not only that, but it was compounded by centuries of reinforcing the notion that his self doesn’t matter through serving in covens. Who truly is Armand? He never got a change to truly discover it. So he can only try to fill himself up with external input in whatever way - be it via the rules of some organisation or the input of one individual. The tragedy is, Armand has a lot of love to give and desperately craves to be loved, but he doesn't understand truly how to love or be loved, and how can he be loved when he doesn't know who he is?

Claudia: struggles to feel perceived for her full self.

- Made a vampire too young, but a full adult in her mind now; By both those who love her and even mores by anyone new she meets (at least initially), Claudia is most often spilt into either “child” or “monster” with nobody truly seeing her for all she is.  (In a way Claudia’s struggles are similar to Lestat’s I feel, except you could call Lestat’s lesser as they are more related to love, whereas for Claudia it is more fundamentally getting anyone to even see *who* she truly is.)

Daniel: struggles to feel successful in relationships.

- Daniel has had a successful career.  He knows himself and is secure in himself professionally.  But he feels he has failed anyone he has loved.  He feels he has failed in his relationships, failed with his children, failed to love others in the right way. What has his life outside his work been?

This could obviously be gone into in way more depth, including the impact of character’s race, the eras and societies and locations they were born into and their status in those eras when they were mortal, as well as their mortal experiences of love and trauma and acceptance… but I wanted to just keep it all as simple as I could.

I don’t know… I’m just wondering if by the end of the Vampire Chronicles, whether Rolin might have something to express about whether, given eternity, these immortal beings can ever fully truly accept the entirety of their selves…?

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this or on any other themes if you'd like to share?

[iwtvfanevents]

Rewind the tape —Episode 2 highlights

One of our favorite scenes is...

…actually, a pair of scenes. Our first highlight is the scene where Louis eats the fox —the performance of it all, making a show of petting the fox and biting it; and his speech afterwards:

“Vampires are killers, apex predators whose all-seeing eyes were meant to give them detachment, the ability to see a human life in its entirety, not with any mawkish sorrow, but with the thrilling satisfaction of being the end of that life and having a hand in the divine plan.”

What’s most interesting is how similar this is to what Lestat says later in the episode: 

“You will see death in all its beauty, life as it is only known at the very point of death. You alone, of all creatures, can see death with that impunity. You alone, under the rising moon, can strike like the hand of God.”

The other half of our pair is the scene at the end of the episode, in which Louis prepares to eat a human meal (which should, by all accounts, be beneath an “apex predator”) as he tells Daniel: 

“I was never going to be a natural. I was never going to savor the aftertaste. I was a shame-ridden second, a fumbling, despondent killer, a botched vampire.”

This second scene functions as a perfect reversal of the first, where Louis is full of bravado, trying to convince Daniel of how vicious vampires, including himself, are. But here, as he admits to being “botched,” Louis allows Daniel to see that, even now, he isn’t a natural at vampirism. 

What's a favorite scene of yours? Did you enjoy the first hunt? Were you taken by the humor of Lestat’s mind-reading lessons? Do you love the discomfort of the tenor’s murder?

Reblog with your highlights, or make a new post with the tag #vampterview to join the conversation! And, if you're just getting caught up, learn all about our group rewatch here ►

[kmze]

Thoughts on 3x01-3x11, lol I WROTE SO MUCH but this season (especially this half) has so much happening it's kind of impossible to not have a lot of thoughts. This is also where the show starts to embrace being more comedic (like this show is really a dark comedy at it's heart) so that helps. More characters being involved in the supernatural business also helps and up-powering Tyler is great for the plot IMO. I don't think Klaus was as strong of a villian as Katherine was last season (he is so whiny in the first half) but he started to get a little more interesting after he came back, maybe he just needed his hybrid minions to become more interesting. More below, I even broke it up in episode order!

3x01

Isn’t Elena’s birthday in June? She said Ric spent half the summer on the couch but that would mean it’s gotta be late July early August, right? (don't know why I'm even trying to make sense of this show's timeline)

I forgot that A Drop in the Ocean was played during a montage and included Forwood sexy time! What a moment. When I first watched the show the Stefan and Elena scene at the end is when I actually started shipping Stelena, it was the first time I really felt like they truly loved each other (song helped too because WHAT A SONG I always sing-a-long). I didn't feel that same buzz this time though, but maybe too much time as passed (and that damn scene in 6x02 saying this was when Elena fell in love with Damon takes a lot away from my old feels). I'm getting such a buzz from Forwood though!

3x02

Elena’s getting on my damn nerves with this stupid rescue mission in the woods during a full moon… I don’t understand how Ric and Damon agreed. I fail to see any reason for this nonsense plan.

3x03

The moment in the 20s flashbacks when Stefan is looking at Rebekah while Klaus is talking to him and then he turns and looks at Klaus with the biggest heart eyes I have ever seen him use how am I supposed to not ship it? The way they keep using "brother" to hide the extremely heavy gay subtext too I S2G. If this show was made 10 years later on a better network with better writers that subtext would be straight-up text! Think Louis and Lestat on AMC's Interview with the Vampire. In that just world I would have gotten canon Klefaroline dammit!

3x04

Caroline is a much better person than I because she's protecting her Dad meanwhile I'm counting down the episodes until he drops dead.

Stefan is really off his game (happens when he's too emotional about something) I cannot believe he got out-manipulated by Rebekah one of the most easily manipulated characters on this show. Pathetic really.

As soon as Beremy started being cute the writers start fucking it up for Bonnie. Makes me madder watching it all over again and how much they never give Bonnie the devoted love interests like Caro and Elena. And I like Jeremy and Anna but I’m so annoyed at this whole storyline in how it’s treating Bonnie I can’t even enjoy it. GFY Julie.

3x05

Completely forgot Bill Forbes taught himself how to resist compulsion (IDK why too it's a big plot point oops) and I can't believe none of these idiots bothered to learn how. I like to believe Caroline did and there's a class at the Salvatore Boarding School that teaches it.

The gym buzzer countdown was a nice touch lol.

3x06

I like that Rebekah narrowed in on Caroline and was like “you, I want your life” because she sees the vision and the potential! In all seriousness though I wonder if Rebekah having an interest in Caroline is why the writers picked Caroline to be the love interest for Klaus (since it parallels with them and Stefan in the '20s). Things that make me go hmmm.

I'm with Ric and Caroline, every time I see or hear about Damon and Elena I was to scream "stop molesting her!" UGH! He is always invading her personal space and it annoys me! The part where Elena said Damon needed to use his charm to distract Rebekah and Ric said "better luck finding a dagger" and you see Caro in the background laughing was the best.

Kinda happy to get a break from Klaus for a few episodes, he's just so one-dimensional during this time period and frankly annoying.

3x06 made me laugh so much even though I'm not sure I was supposed to laugh as much as I did. I mean Ripper Stefan is never not funny (a jerk but a hilarious jerk) but the scene were Ripper Stefan and 1,000 year old Rebekah are sitting in Ric's HIGH SCHOOL HISTORY CLASS just kills me, like what even is this show. Also laughed at Tyler being a "d-bag" baby hybrid, and you knew he was sired as soon as he didn't want to help lock up Stefan. HA!

Um, how did Rebekah get into the Lockwood mansion?

3x07

How did Lexi make Stefan think he’d been bleeding out for years? Is that a vampire power they just never used again or is it a special ghost power? I don’t remember this ever happening again.

Caroline fighting the ghost-vamps in her ballet flats lol the cutest!

3x08

Elena dealt with Ripper Stefan for like an hour and was like "absolutely not, Damon you do it" LMFAO which reminded me of the gifset that made everyone mad.

The Defan convo in 3x08 about Stefan always saving Damon for the bajillionith time even without humanity reminds of the convo in Damon’s head in 8x10 a little. This is a good season for them if I remember correctly, obviously I always enjoy them more when their causes of contention aren’t solely about Elena.

Elena making the Beremy breakup about herself, she really does have a gift. Even Bonnie was like really?

Bonnie ignoring Jeremy and giving him a death glare 1000% BB you deserve better you brought his ass back to life and lost tons of witchy power doing so he deserves to feel like shit!

3x09

Oh this is the first time Tyler and Caroline get into it about not including each other in schemes. This is kind of always a cause of conflict in their relationship but it’s a good cause of conflict because it makes sense. Tyler has a pack mentality (werewolf/hybrid) whereas Caroline is more independently driven (vampire). Like Caro said so much supernatural boyfriend drama.

Elena stabbing Rebekah in the back with the dagger is one of her best moments (even if I RME at her “I care too much” moment after).

3x10

Elena giving Tyler shit for being sired to Klaus (something he has no control over) is pretty funny considering what happens to her next season... insert well-well-well-how-the-turntables.gif.

3x11

Stefan’s spin decapitation of one of Klaus’ hybrids in front of him is so extra, I love it.

The symbolism of Elena “crowning” Caroline is not lost on me. Neither is Klaus forcing his way into Caroline’s house through the doorway.

Yeah the Wickery bridge scene was rough, no one knows how to psychologically torture/traumatize people quite like Stefan does.

Lines that made me laugh:

Bonnie: You think you're bored? My dads family is like wet paint that never dries. (oh I’m saving that one!)

Stefan: You’re into Tyler now, huh? That’s kind of fickle. (He's the worst but the comedic timing is *chef's kiss*)

Stefan: We should all listen to Elena, right? I mean, her plans always work out so well, don't they? (I’m saying! Damon agreed too LMFAO)