#Iron Bull Critical

[dragonageconfessions]

CONFESSION:

I know it won't happen but I would love it if Krem was a returning companion in Dragon Age Dreadwolf.  They could easily have Krem mention that Bull was killed and the Chargers disbanded.  Krem mentions he needs a purpose as well having some unfinished business in Tevinter.  And he can be romanced. Krem deserves his chance to shine as a companion.

[chaifootsteps]

Regarding your ask about ships you hate, you mentioned Iron Bull/Dorian. Been a while since I've played DA:I so I don't remember much from it. Was there anything objectionable about the ship or is it more something that just wasn't your cup of tea?

Iron Bull/Dorian, like Stolitz, is one of those ships that will sucker you in with the fandom's interpretation of it. Iron Bull's actually pretty awful to Dorian, sexually harassing him at every turn and finally sleeping with him while Dorian, an alcoholic, is implied to be drunk. Even after they get together, Dorian never, ever seems happy about it and pleads with Bull not to bring up their sex life in public, which Bull ignores. Bull will sneer at the idea of love ("Love is all starlight and gentle blushes. Passion leaves your fingers sore from clawing the sheets," but if you know anything about Dorian, you know that he's heartbreakingly ravenous for a loving relationship based on more than just sex.

Unrelated to anything, Bull's also super transphobic but that's another topic for another time.

Most of the fandom justifications for this are pretty awful. A common one is that Dorian is closeted or just prejudiced against Qunari, but if Dorian's dating the Inquisitor -- even a Qunari Inquisitor -- his behavior is night and day. He's happy, other characters commenting on how much he's been smiling, and yes, joking openly about his sex life.

The fandom makes Bull out to be this respectful, careful Dom, but he picks your safeword for you and will continue to make passes at Dorian even if Dorian's dating the Inquisitor. Another big one that always gets missed (people don't usually pick it on the dialogue tree) is that if your Inquisitor romances Bull and asks if they can take a turn on top sometimes, he'll mock them and then refuse, not because it's not his thing, but because "this is what you need."

[mw567152]

i still hate Iron Bull

[boomballoonmachine]

you ever think about how the Andrastian faith of characters like Cassandra, Leliana and potentially the Herald is treated with ambivalence or as positive character trait and Andrastian hypocrites and oppressors are firmly distinguished from their religion, but the fact that Bull is deeply and openly faithful to the Qun is basically treated as a hurdle that he needs to overcome to have a fulfilling life, and characters who believe in the Qun only appear to do so as a result of violent indoctrination or manipulation, because nobody could possibly choose to follow that strange brown religion unless they were misled? yeah me either

[swoleas]

Since Veilguard was released, there is this genre of Dragon Age fans popping up who are explaining Dragon Age lore, who have been talking a lot about Qunari lore. Disappointingly, they've just been taking Bioware's qunari lore at face value for every single game, no matter how much the Qunari lore for each game retcons the lore from game before it.

And I feel like, it needs to be understood that, Qunari were designed to be "Militant Islamic Borg" -- the intent behind them is to be this oriental technologically advanced people who are violent and expansionist savages and made specifically to contrast the rest of Thedas, meant to be White and European. They are routinely called barbarians and savages, real world slurs used against people from the SWANA region, by characters the players are meant to see as sympathetic and intelligent, like Solas. The lore starts and ends with this. And even with Gaider not working on the game, each bit of new Qunari lore introduced is built on 2 things: Racism and Vibes.

Trying to explain Qunari lore without even examining the deeply racist framework within which Qunari lore exists is inadvertently reinforcing the racism and the orientalism and xenophobia in the writing. You cannot separate them.

I have been seeing people calling Qunari society "inherently violent" or "teaching violence" and that this is why they are written as having had the Antaam branch away and go to the South and join the ancient Gods. And No. That is not correct in any sense. But if you rewrite the lore of the Qunari in every single game, of course that would be your takeaway. The real reason they are written this way is so you can have a faceless orcish brute enemy archetype that you can kill in Dragon Age: The Veilguard without any guilt. It's literally not deeper than that.

Why is it that Bioware is so resistant to having us go to Seheron or go to Par Vollen and walk amongst Qunari society and view them in a context where they are just living their lives? Is it possibly because it will draw attention to how alien and inhuman they are intended to be? Is it so they are not humanized in a way that makes every previous inclusion of Qunari seem jarring and uncomfortable to see?

In Origins, we meet Sten, and though he exists to expound on this group of people who exist in Thedas, the Qunari, and introduce us to this bit of world building which isn't directly relevant to the main story, but fleshes out the world beyond Ferelden. The writing was still racist (after all "militant Islamic Borg" refers to their Origins iteration), but you got so little information that you could infer that there may be some nuance there, especially given the way Sten is written in a way that humanizes the Qunari. Later lore shows him as being someone who cares deeply about the world around him and, as Arishok, about diplomacy. And all this not conflicting with his belief in the tenets of the Qun.

And in Dragon Age 2, the game pivots into making them one of the major causes of conflict in the story. This is the first introduction of Qunari as faceless brute enemy archetypes which you can kill without guilt, without explanation of why you can kill them without guilt--at least not immediately. You do not walk into DA2 knowing who Tal-Vashoth are and why they are attacking you--only that they're violent and they yell things in a foreign language at you.

The Arishok in Dragon Age 2 is stubborn, dogmatic, and violent when opposed or crossed. He shows up, sets up a military compound, and stays there for years. Your only representation here is a military leader and his subordinates, contrasted with equally violent mercenaries who the game promises are of a completely different ideology. All shirtless muscular men, who speak in a growling menacing dialect.

Then Bioware turns around and goes. Just kidding! Those weren't the real Qunari; they're a violent offshoot! We promise they are nuanced, you just haven't met those ones yet. They give us Tallis in Mark of the Assassin, but she's an elf, and one who had to pick between slavery and the Qun, and picks the lesser of two evils. Sure, she's sympathetic, but you get the impression that Hawke feels betrayed to find out that she's Qunari, and interrogates her on this--which, is partly, I guess, you, the player, clicking the dialogue options to learn more, but Tallis is on the defensive, trying to convince you Qunari are people, just like you and me.

Inquisition introduces another Ben-Hassrath, like Tallis, in the Iron Bull. And on the surface, his inclusion is quite a lot like Sten in Origins. They both showed up because there was an unknown threat in the South that they were ordered to investigate. Unlike Sten, though, you are given the option to convert him away from the Qun. Not only that, but the game drills into you how there is no free will under the Qun. But then contradicts itself with Bull telling you that under the Qun you DO have the choice to change your role under the Qun and that there is even a word for it, Aqun Athlok, which means transgender, but, in a society where gender is directly related to the role you perform in society, that implies less rigidity and more open-mindedness than every other character wants you to believe.

However, beyond dialogue with Krem and the Iron Bull about gender (and later Taash in the Veilguard), Bioware is not interested in exploring the implications of the existence and acceptance of Aqun Athlok in Qunari culture.

And in the end, if Bull becomes Tal-Vashoth, that's framed as the outcome that is overall most positive--the outcome where he can keep his romantic relationships (whether that's with the Inquisitor or with Dorian), his friendships with the Inquisition and the Chargers, and his individuality. It's reinforced in banter with his companions and dialogue with the Inquisitor. And it all sounds a little too close to how white savior types talk about Muslims who leave SWANA and leave Islam to come to the more enlightened and liberating West.

By the Veilguard, the Qunari lore is already so wishy washy that sure I guess now we have to believe that the Antaam (literally just the Qunari military) broke away from the other Qunari because the other Qunari weren't expansionist and violent enough. I guess that's what we are going with. And that's the reason why, as a gameplay mechanic, we see the return of the Qunari as a faceless brute enemy archetype. And this time, instead of them clearly speaking in normal pitch but in a foreign language (like in DA2), they communicate in inhumanly deep, animal-like grunts and growls. Even when they're not being hostile to you, and you pass them by in Treviso just hanging out? They are still hollering and growling in monstrous deep voices, without a trace of a thought out and well-enunciated language. And how racist do you have to be for you to be more racist than the DA2 Qunari?

I don't even want to get into whatever scraps you get through Taash and their personal quest because it's so irrelevant and detached from everything it feels like putting a bandaid over a stab wound. Nevermind Taash introducing us to a brand new and innovative genre of Qunari who can sniff things out like hunting dogs. Thanks for that one Bioware -- "but nooooo, Nairuz, they're part dragon it makes sense in the lore" -- the ancient Elves can also turn into wolves and dragons and even monsters, but you don't see them growling and sniffing and prowling like animals.

All this to say. Stop trying to make sense of Qunari lore in a way that validates and justify the decisions Bioware made, when they made those decisions out of Islamophobia and racism and orientalism. I am tired of seeing this lore be uncritically parroted by Dragon Age lore accounts.

[abyssal-ilk]

getting all of the banter dialogue for dorian and bull so they can be a couple in dai is so... ugh. there is some genuinely wonderful stuff to explore in their dynamic, with iron bull abandoning the qun and dorian leaving tevinter and what it means to have done that and finding themselves as people, but. christ. the fetishization and oversexualization of the qunari in da is fucking hair tearingly painful, and it is at its most obvious with iron bull and dorian. really hoping that something changes for the taash romance, but i am,, kind of doubtful.

[itsabouttimex2]

Monkie Kid Villain Fates

A more in-depth look (especially for Macaque) down below!

(I know I’ve been posting a lot of content that’s outside my usual, and I hope no one minds too much! I’m cleansing my palate to prep for Season Five, which I am very excited to write for. ((Especially for Li Jing and Nuwa!!!)) So here’s a slew of my thoughts on the villains, and which one is my least favorite!)

(Spoilers: his name is written in purple above.)

Disclaimer 1: I am not counting instances of “throwing your lot in with the heroes when the world is at stake” as redeeming moments. If you only do something because it personally benefits you at the moment, it’s not exactly selfless.

Disclaimer 2: Redemption means three things-

1. The character acknowledges their wrongdoings.

2. The character works to become a better person.

3. The character makes amends/reparations for the harm they’ve done, without the threat of death hanging overhead. Good must be done of one’s own will and volition.

Disclaimer 3: A character not being redeemed doesn’t make them a bad character. In fact, some characters work better without redemption. (Like the Lady Bone Demon.) I just wanted to make a villain tier list and talk on some of the people it contained.

Red Son: Decently humanizing interactions with Mei, but ultimately uncaring of all the damage and harm that he’s caused, especially in regards to potential deaths during his attacks on the city. Unfortunately, the first example of “pretty much unrepentant but universally-forgiven”. (Fix: Have him interact with people harmed by his villainy, and resolve to help them- even if only by repairing their destroyed vehicles. Something small enough to be reasonably in line with his pride and arrogance, but enough to show that he’s become a better person.)

——————

Macaque: The worst villain here. Utterly unrepentant and shameless, outwardly cruel and violent… but still got a “you’re not a bad guy” speech before actually showing that he wasn’t a bad guy. Despite being able to skip fights with his shadow portals, he intentionally stuck around to raze the Dragon Palace of the East Sea to the ground. (AO GUANG AND HIS PEOPLE’S STATUS ARE STILL UNKNOWN) This still hasn’t been addressed in canon, not even by Mei, who was related to those who lived there. Instead, she has a team-up with him, never addressing the still unknown fate of her uncle. Never apologizes, never makes amends, never tries to repair the damage he’s done… but allowed to stick around all the same. Where characters like Azure or LBD do what they do because they truly believe in their causes, Macaque is just having fun hurting people. Again, given his ability to shadow-portal, he doesn’t even have the “I’m trying to save my own life” excuse. He could’ve just skipped the torment and violence, but explicitly chose not to, and is always happy to inflict harm- even bragging about what he did to the Dragon Palace.

Also, I don’t give a single shit that Peng “bullied” him. It doesn’t make Macaque more sympathetic, it makes him less. He knows what it’s like to be insulted and berated for your nature, then (unhesitatingly and gleefully) does the same to MK, who may well be a child?

Yeah, no. Then, his “awesome” team-up with Mei only serves to rip agency and nuance from her character, turning this caring and energetic warrior into an amnesiac that doesn’t care about her family for the sake of “Boo-hoo, Peng hit me once to protect someone they care about!” So, Mei holds grudges, right? That would make her a more interesting character! But no! No, no, no! That’s just for Peng! Her grudge isn’t against the man who essentially attempted genocide on her people and razed an ancestral palace full of innocent people to the ground, no!

OF COURSE NOT, SILLY!!

Because then Macaque’s actions would have something called “consequences”, and the writers just won’t allow it! Because he’s just a murderous, violent, manipulative, cruel, spiteful, villain! How dare we expect any actual comeuppance for his crimes? No, we can’t have that!

Oh, and how does he help MK in the fourth season? How about he outright tells (great storytelling, btw) MK about how delusional Azure Lion is- a character with which he has no tie with beyond a tenuous past oath and no actual interactions. This moment could have easily been given to, you know, Wukong! Or Yellowtusk, if they were going the full redemption arc route for him, but no!

We have to pretend that Macaque’s input on a character he has no interactions with is important! Oh, and they let him play mentor to MK, who he has: manipulated, betrayed, violently assaulted, stole the powers of, berated, and attempted to kill.

Does MK care about any of this?

OF COURSE NOT!

But MK is absolutely furious and heartbroken at Azure for doing maybe half of those things, and with an honestly noble reason to boot.

Ugh.

I think it’s only made worse by the fact that people get so mad when there’s any criticism of Macaque “redemption arc”. Throwing actual fits and constantly arguing when someone dares to say “everyone allowing Macaque (and many other villains) to get away with the worst of his actions and not holding him accountable for being a genuinely dangerous, unrepentant and violent criminal is bad and makes the “heroic” characters around him look worse.”

And you can’t use the “well, he didn’t get a redemption arc!” The writers didn’t try to redeem him!” defense.

Because, yes. Yes they did.

We are supposed to think this guy is better now. The series wants you to think of him as redeemed.

MK leaves him handmade food and a drawing. His “you’re not a bad guy” speech is supposed to be taken as truth. Wukong is making amends with him (sharing smiles and offering food) and no one has any personal problems on the guy sticking around (which makes them all seem blander, given that at least one of his victims should be upset), which is portrayed in a positive light.

This is portrayed as good.

THE WRITERS CONSIDER MACAQUE AS DESERVING AND WORTHY OF THIS. THEY THINK HE HAS EARNED IT.

So yes- he is supposed to be “redeemed”.

But he isn’t. He really, really, isn’t.

(Fix: God, where do we start? Some remorse? An apology? Have every character not forgive him immediately? Have Mei not forget about the razing of an ancestral palace? Have Pigsy threaten to kill him if he tries to hurt MK again? Have Tang refuse to interact with him? Anything would have been nice.)

——————

Jin and Yin: No redemption arc at all. Essentially forgotten about by the show. They show up with the Scorpion Queen, but don’t have a satisfying send-off. It’s just a little funny scene. (Potential fix: more interactions with them as stagehands, working for the community. Why make them neutral only to shift immediately back to evil? It could’ve been nice to see them integrate into society instead of being turned evil again and written out of the story with little fanfare.)

——————

Demon Bull King: Same as Red Son, but without the humanizing interactions with a heroic character. Bonus points for putting his life in danger to save Wukong and MK, despite gaining nothing for doing so. Unfortunately, aside from that, another “pretty much unrepentant but universally-forgiven” character. (Potential fix: Would’ve been nice to have more positive interactions between him and Wukong. Maybe talk about how hard it is to open up and be soft when they dedicated so much of their lives to being strong? Chat about his struggles adjusting to the modern era? Have him show clear remorse for mistreating his extremely loyal son?)

——————

Princess Iron Fan: Not much to say. Same as her husband, same solution. Really wish she had gotten some more screen time outside of her family. (Fix: Maybe flesh out her bond with Jin and Yin? I know it was supposed to be a funny “noodle incident”, but learning about their past could’ve been nice- maybe we could’ve gotten a scene of her with little Red Son to humanize her a bit?)

——————

As it says on the tin. I’ll do this all in one quick chunk.

Nothing much to say here- but it would’ve been nice to have one of the spiders survive and redeem themselves, especially since that it was teased for Huntsman.

I wish Goliath (not even his real name btw) hadn’t been such a nothing character. Like, we really don’t learn a single thing about him.

I pity the Ink Curse. Created to be a tool of torture, never allowed to love or be loved. Poor thing.

——————

Mayor: One of Season Four’s biggest flaws is that it could really feel disconnected from the previous three, which all felt very tightly interwoven. Example one: Mei “no longer *wielding* the Samadhi Fire”, when it had previously been established that she fused with it. Example two: The mayor’s fate is never addressed, despite being such a prominent enemy. (Fix: Just… tell us what happened to him. Is he in jail? Did he escape justice? Did someone just… murder him? I don’t care if “it’s being saved for Season Five”. It’s weird to just forget about someone so dangerous in universe.)

——————

Kui Mulang: Presumably either dead or returned to the Celestial Realm for punishment. Unlikely that we’ll receive further information on him.

——————

Peng: Probable that we’ll receive an update on their status in Season Five. Very interesting character with a few humanizing moments (being close to Yellowtusk and Azure, being upset when Monkey King was trapped in the scroll) that keep them from being irredeemable. Actually a better person than Macaque, given that they never remorselessly razed a palace of innocent people to the ground. Or tried to murder an innocent kid who wasn’t involved with their fight at all. Or held a young lady’s life hostage and threatened to murder her. But they’re sort of mean, so I guess people consider them irredeemable? Super weird.

Like, Peng is an asshole, sure. They clearly aren’t in this fight out of the goodness of their heart. But the awful way they get treated in the fandom is insane, especially with the babying treatment that other villainous characters (like Macaque, the Mayor, and Red Son) get.

——————

Azure Lion: Macaque, but better written! Letting MK be angry at a person who: manipulated, lied to, and betrayed him? Not having his misdeeds be forgotten and glossed over? People actually being upset at what he’s done further than a few minutes after he’s done it? Incredible character! This is what I’ve wanted from Monkie Kid for so long! Ultimately, Azure accepts his failures and sacrifices himself- a punishment for hurting innocent people and wreaking havoc? A villain acknowledging their misdeeds and making up for them? God, I love Azure so much!

Probably my favorite character!

——————

Yellowtusk: I love this grandpa so much, for mostly the same reasons as Azure. His crimes aren’t immediately forgotten! Everyone doesn’t immediately forgive him! And he has to head back to the Celestial Realm for actual consequences?! Damn, this is what I’ve wanted from LMK villains for so long! Real redemption arcs, my beloved.

Also, this proves that the writers do know that people who commit crimes should be held accountable and punished for it? Can you give some of that to the others, please?

——————

Scorpion Queen: Another character I don’t have much to say about. She acknowledges her mistakes, ceases her villainy, and seems to have made genuine friends in Jin and Yin. Given the very little harm she caused, redemption was never going to be outside of her reach- but I’m happy for her anyhow.

——————

Finishing Points

1: I do not “hate” any of these characters. Though I definitely dislike how some are written, each one is lovable and enjoyable in their own way. I enjoy writing for all of them, and will continue to do so. I just wanted to take a break from fanfiction and talk about my perspective on some villains.

2: What do I mean by “punishment”?

Essentially, a consequence delivered to the character on account of their villainy. Someone tripping and eating dirt isn’t a “punishment”, unless they’re being shoved down by an old victim. Losing a fight isn’t “punishment”, it’s a matter of self-defense. Additionally, the punishment has to be actively performed as a consequence of misdoings- tripping and breaking an arm after doing evil things isn’t a punishment, but having a victim of the villain actively choose to break their arm is.

3: This is not an attack on you or your “fave”. This is not me saying that the show is bad. This is not me saying that I could do better. This is not me saying that you shouldn’t like these characters. This is not me trying to change your mind. This is not me saying you should feel the way I do. These are just my personal thoughts on the villains listed, and some of the “flaws” that I personally have with their portrayals and depictions.

[agirlking]

The lack of Cole...

[zenatness]

So, here is Lucanis, knowing his place (being a minimum of a head shorter than Rook). As all good npcs should be.

And then... to add salt in the wounds left by the random qunari you come across being taller than Rook... here's Taash.

Bioware. If I drag the slider to 100 on height and beefiness, I expect to be the biggest and beefiest.

Where are the modders? This is intolerable.

[theturncoattournament]

Who is the best turncoat character? (Round 2)

A tournament for characters who change allegiances and/or have a redemption or corruption arc during their stories

PROPAGANDA:

Essek Thelyss- Originally written to be a Big Boss villain of the campaign, the genuine friendship offered by the player characters and their efforts to stop the war he helped cause ate away at his selfishness until he turned on his co-conspirators. He accepted a life of exile and ended up in a relationship with the morally-gray wizard he was originally meant to be a narrative contrast to.

Iron Bull- None submitted

[dragonageconfessions]

CONFESSION:

Had Bull looked more like the Qunari we encounter in the Mark of Assassin, I would have romanced him.  DA2's Qunari were attractive. Bull not so much. Yes I am that shallow.

[grimwarden]

i went through this on another fandom:

if you're getting angry at a female character for showing interest in another character, especially as a game mechanic others partake in too but the woman doing it is bothersome for some reason, there's something to look at inside your head and heart.

that being said, every person who's not necessarily happy about it/a character/ship isn't a bad person. both can be true.

[soloragoldsun]

Just gotta stop in and talk about The Iron Bull for a sec. Again.

This time, I’d like to focus on how his whole storyline is basically that of someone either being freed from or doubling down on a cult-like religion. Because that’s what the Qun is. Anything that puts certain people on leashes and has “re-educators” that are meant to “fix” people who start thinking differently is a freaking cult!

Bull is shown to be on the fence when it comes to a lot of things. While he insists on being true Qunari and a follower of the Qun, he also shows discomfort when the Qunari offers the alliance with the Inquisition. He flat out says that he’s grown used to them being “over there.” He even acknowledges that the Qun isn’t the right way for everyone.

If you let the Chargers die, he says that the Qun demanded the sacrifice, but you can see cracks in his armor and how much he hates making that decision both during the battle and after Gatt and the Inquisitor secure the alliance at Skyhold. As a result, he doubles down on his devotion to the Qun. The Iron Bull becomes just a role he plays. He becomes Hissrad. How else can he deal with the guilt of leading the people who had become his family to their deaths? He has to believe that it was necessary, and to do that, he has to believe in the Qun unquestioningly.

If Cole is in the party during his betrayal in Trespasser, he comments on how Bull didn’t feel anything when he betrays the party. I’d bet anything that between the end of Inquisition and the beginning of Trespasser, he submitted willingly to the re-educators, masking his emotions and eliminating what was left of The Iron Bull.

On the other hand, if you order the retreat, he doesn’t hesitate to blow that horn. He smiles when he sees his men are safe. When you correct Gatt and say that his name is Iron Bull and not Hissrad, Bull approves. If you say that there’s still something to do to salvage the alliance, he disapproves. Once he’s Tal-Vashoth, he commits almost immediately and acts as if a weight has been lifted.

He smiles while sparring with Krem. He tells you that, whatever he regrets, he’s where he wants to be. Most of his inner conflict comes with the realization that much of what he believed was wrong, that being Tal-Vashoth doesn’t make one a monster. So, what does that make him, someone who has killed many Tal-Vashoth over the years?

No matter what playthrough I do, I will always save the Chargers, both because I love them, and because it’s the best thing for The Iron Bull. One choice allows him to move forward and become his own person. The other forces him to regress into what he once was as a way to avoid his guilt.

[lofi-fairy-tails]

Jumbo

“You’ve got some big ears on you, girl.”

Sera jumped away from the door, only to see Varric leaning against the wall, his whale-sized arms crossed on his chest.

“Like the ‘jumbos’ Bull mentioned. You know, huge, grey-skinned animals with ears the size of blankets? Or so he describes them.”

“Not your business, ain’t it?” Sera cries out and quickly slams her hand on her mouth to keep it quiet.

Varric seems unfazed. “Who are you spying on anyway?”

Her loud giggle fills the hallway. “Inky and Solas are at it again. ‘Elven mating rituals.’ Or so Bull calls them.”

[antiqua-lugar]

in retrospective it was insane that every da:I companion was like "I bring connections!!!" and all they brought were a fetchquest and random things on the war table. The game should not be the same whether or not I recruit Vivienne

[platoniccereal]

qunari gender system thoughts!!! i read some head canons about this long time ago and it got me thinking.

tw transphobic takes and gender dysphoria mentioned (all under the cut).

i really like the common idea that there could be at least 3 branches of gender identities (according to the system of triumvirate), or that each particular role/job could be perceived a separate gender just like there is a spectrum in our modern understanding.

consequently, would qunari even take something mostly irrelevant to their role performance into consideration? bioware’s writing yes, it would, but realistically speaking, would qunari even have a gender system as in modern understanding? i’m betting on that some sort of gender indentity would appear individually, but that wouldn’t be something they pay much attention to?

i absolutely adore the idea that qunari just decided that their word for warrior/warrior gender equals thedosian word for male gender. that they decided that, not knowing on which features the perception of gender on the continent is based. then it is natural from sten’s point of view to be surprised by women in warden’s party. in this head canon he may be simply linguistically confused (especially since he is presented as someone really curious about languages). “this person would be a ‘warrior’ in my culture, their word for it is a ‘man’, but for some reason this person does not go by a proper title.” it may be as confusing to him as to continue to call a person, who left the role of a baker and became a blacksmith, a baker. (and then we shall ignore whatever bioware writes about qunari’s gender.)

years ago i used to perceive the qunari’s concept of gender as it was implied by bioware. thus, qunari have a set of body features, based on which they assign female or male gender. qunari have certain fields of roles that come with it. hence, under the aqun-athlok tag, from bioware’s world building perspective, there would be people who we would call transgender folks (then there could be, let’s say, a happy coincidence with some trans masc lad being put into antaam, so the aqun-athlok title is assigned correctly). it is what bioware intended to do, to create a qunlat word and concept for trans people. but. then there are also gender non-conforming folks, as we would call them from a modern perspective. these may be not so comfortable with this label. e.g., there is shokrakar:

so it is clear what bioware wanted to show. ‘‘hey, look how awful this society is, they assign you a strict role based on whether you are afab or amab, and some folks are really uncomfortable with it.” of course, the developers can’t just imagine a society that simply didn’t develop a status quo of 2 genders assignment – with a bunch of stereotypes attached.

i cannot say how many times, due to this bullshit, i saw transphobic hot takes on qunari perceiving cassandra/female warden/leliana/morrigan the same way they perceive krem. ‘‘they’re just confused by afab in these roles because of their sexist philosophy, so it’s the same for krem, yay!’’ ugh.

plus, they created their concept for the sake of acceptance, but there is an icky question what the situation would be if there was, e.g., a trans woman wielding a sword. plus, the situation they’ve written for shokrakar is still icky whether the qunari would’ve decided to give her the label of aqun-athlok (and it's not her), or kept putting her into roles she was unfit for. the idea of aqun-athlok the way bioware untended it to be could be interesting, but their own desire to go “hey look bigoted culture” backfires into their faces, giving these good intentions a nauseating and questionable colouring. if they didn’t want to backpedal everything they’ve written about the qun gender system, they should’ve just sticked to the iron bull’s natural laid-back attitude. meanwhile, the fandom handled this matter in their head canons much better.

i think it is a great starter point for the iron bull to understand how gender functions in thedas and what is trans folks’ perspective there. this is a new world for both bull and krem. extra cool with other head canons about dalish having a different understanding of gender as well! they could discuss it with, well, their dalish.

i also saw cool thoughts about nb/trans/tama bull!! i believe qunari’s understanding of gender meeting thedosian one may result in quite interesting thoughts.

when if bull is declared tal-vashot, a new identity is inflicted upon him. he has no way back to par vollen and has to integrate into thedosian society. if we understand cisgender as someone whose assigned gender and how they’re perceived coincide with their perception of themself, then bull always has been a qunari cisgender.

what folks in thedas would count as trans might be cis in the qunari culture. or vice versa, bull may be perceived as a male, but it is foreign for him. i imagine he wouldn’t be happy being only perceived as a cis man, but would he be ever happy with the whole new system of gender at all? like, non-binary folks may include their identity assigned at birth in their actual identity, but still it wouldn’t be ok if people saw only this particular part of it.

tal-vashoth bull faces the whole new set of identities that are based on totally different features, and it’s interesting to see what comes out of it. in general, which labels from the qun culture would stay with tal-vashoth and which ones they would take from the thedosian culture. it depends on the angle from which they observe their identity, and it’s interesting to see which one tal-vashoth people or the iron bull specifically pick.

i’m also curious about what are the definitions of something we would call cis and trans under the qun. if there is a gender spectrum, then everybody’s non-binary, due to there are no binary system and oppositions... but still from the definition of cis almost everyone are cis, because qun is supposed to always assign the right role? ofc, again, there are aqun-athlok who changed their role throughout their lifetime. but the whole perception of what cis is may be different?

and what gender dysphoria feels like under the qun? does this perception set aqun-athlok and tal-vashoth on one level? thus, the former means growing out of your previous role/gender, the latter means growing out of the system itself. what are tal-vashoth even in this case of role = gender, then? would this same term of dysphoria mean a different concept (tal-vashoth/aqun-athlok being unfitting for their work function in society) in comparison to the modern understanding of dysphoria, or would it still cause the very same feeling for qunari?

and what does it mean for bull and his identity, gender identity included? i imagine it’s like having two different coordinate systems, externally and internally. is he a type of character to place himself on different points on each of them? is he not? tal-vashoth in general and bull specifically cannot just get rid of their previous relationships with gender and at the same time they can’t escape perception of gender in thedas. would this experience be dysphoric to them?