#I understand people reblogging Batfamily posts

[kiragecko]

Me: spends 8 hours making a post

Also me: why are people reblogging this post, that’s so weird?

-

Me: surrounds myself with people who appreciate me and share my interests

Also me: people are acting like they ALSO think this thing I talked about is cool? Why? I don’t understand

[necrotic-nephilim]

@profandomhopper i was going to reblog the original post this comment was left on but i felt it divorced itself from the original topic so much, you get your own post for giving me delightful permission to ramble about this. buckle in people this is long.

so, DC is a big fandom that expanses a lot of different types of content, and like anything, is subject to crossovers. the obvious ones like Marvel are for the reason of being a similar and equally popular superhero world, so it's easy to transpose the worlds onto each other and overlap the characters. both of these worlds deal with multiverses and endless, endless heroes. it makes sense and there's no real stretch to think Batman and Spider-Man could co-exist. i mean, there have been canon crossover comics. and even some more random crossovers like White Collar have pretty easy to trace origins, being an actor in WC was a popular Dick fancast back in the day so there was some bleeding over that led to a well-loved niche crossover space.

but Danny Phantom and Miraculous Ladybug are where it gets interesting. because at a surface, MLB sort of makes sense. it's a superhero world, you're following a teen girl superhero and sure the mechanics are pretty contained, but the crossover should make sense. but when you compare it to the crossover numbers of other superhero media like say My Hero Academia, Ladybug takes the *crown* with such a bizarre popularity. and of course, DP feels like it makes even less sense. sure, you *could* lump it into at the very least, superhero-adjacent media, but it's not a true hero world like MLB or DC is.

but, the thing to always understand about DC, *especially* the Batfamily (which is where the crossover content propagates the most) is this: a *very* good chunk of fans don't interact with the comics. i would venture to say even most Batfamily fans don't read the comics and actively talk about it. we've all read a very fandom big Batfam fanfic where the author's note mentions the writer has never touched a comic in their life. typically, these fans are either cobbling together their understanding from fandom content, or by frankensteining unrelated DC adaptations to understand each character. you take Bruce from Batman: TAS, you take Dick from the animated Young Justice, you take Jason from Batman: Under The Red Hood animated movie, you take Damian from the DCAMU Batman vs Robin, and you read some fandom metas to fill in the rest and well, you've got some sort of an understanding of these characters. read enough incorrect quotes, some genfic, a couple of character metas, and boom, you understand the Batfamily fandom enough to start creating your own content. and of course now. now you have Wayne Family Adventures so it's even *easier*. a pretty easy to pick up webtoon that's filling in all the gaps for you. but i've been in this fandom long enough to remember before we had WFA and even then, this was still a common, if not the most popular way, to ween yourself into the DC fandom space. you cherry-picked the canon you liked and then plunged into the depths of fanon.

i'm not here to make in depth commentary on if i think this is a good or bad thing. trust me i have that commentary in my head, but that would need it's own post. i'm very split on it and my feelings are complicated. my feelings on WFA are even *more* complicated. because oftentimes, the attitude expressed by these fans who are frankensteining this version of the Batfamily/DC world they have in their head is they don't *want* to read the comics. the comics don't contain the content they're after. and to an extent, i understand that. if you're looking for light-hearted vibes of the Batfamily all getting along and having the occasional hurt/comfort moments but in the end, they hug and make up, you're right. largely, you won't find that in canon. of course there are so many comics to recommend for Batfamily interactions, but you have to get specific. you'll find them interacting in small groups, Tim and Dick bonding here, Duke and Cass bonding there, but largely, the comics don't care to balance the ridiculously large cast they've given themselves. but fandom does. it's easy to toss them all in a blender and ignore the parts you don't like. the default argument to ignoring the comics or writing something OOC is always "well the comics are OOC and inconsistent too" which, while a flawed argument that massively misunderstand how comics work as a medium, isn't an entirely incorrect one. you could serve on a silver platter to these fans, an easy and accessible way to get into comics and they wouldn't be interested. it's not what they're here for. fandom is always character-driven above all else. it's driven by character relationships and dynamics. if someone wants to consume content where Tim idolized and stalked Jason as 'his Robin' and now is trying to help him rehabilitate and they're super complicated but have this long epic forgiveness arc, why *would* they read the comics? because they're sure as shit not going to find that dynamic in the comics. it's laughably OOC and not canon at all, but that doesn't matter. what matters is the sandbox. most Batfamily fans care *far* more about the sandbox canon gives them than the actual canon itself. feel how you feel about that, this really isn't being negative toward that attitude, but it is a common attitude.

so, you have Batfamily fans playing in the sandbox and building their own narrative. common fandom headcanons are so common, you could practically write a guide on how the fanon Batfamily works with how consistent people are about it. or you could just read WFA, which is practically the new manifesto of it. even now, with this sudden spike in people talking about canon accuracy and "actually this happening in the comics", they don't actually care about the comics, just what they can cherry-pick for fodder. (even if they rob it of so much context they're just as OOC as they were before. see specifically: the recent phenomena with Tim Drake going from the woobified weakest member of the Batfam who everyone needs to save constantly and he's the smart boy but he's also the one with a sad tragic neglectful past who gets overlooked being the way Batfamily fandom played with Tim for years. but recently, people seem to be pushing this idea of a ridiculously badass Tim, Tim who *totally* has a kill count because of his actions in RR (2009) if you take them completely out of context, Tim who bested Ra's and is even more badass than Jason and he's the 17 yr old CEO of Wayne Industries being cool and flawless it becoming the new fandom zeitgeist. neither of these versions of Tim are canon, and the second fundamentally misunderstands his arc in RR (2009) but the shift has undeniably happened and it's been fascinating to watch. the same thing happened with people suddenly deciding Jason isn't the "angry violent Robin", he was a sunshine sweet boy who was perfect as Robin. neither of these are true, but the second feels more transgressive and new to fandom from cherry-picked panels.) the point is largely, Batfamily fans would rather build their own canon than play with the actual canon.

and then, you have Danny Phantom. i'm not into DP and have no interest to get into it, but what i know about it via fandom osmosis is this: DP fans sort of also don't give a fuck about canon. once again, the canon of DP is a sandbox, not a rulebook. the concepts and the characters are the draw, not the plot itself. i've seen DP posts explaining characters who are essentially OCs, but have become so dominant in the fandom via fandom osmosis. there are concepts and ideas about how Danny's powers work and potential concepts with his ghost nature that either aren't in canon or only happened once in canon and fans decided to expand on that and doesn't care about it's own in-universe logic. i've seen a lot of DP fans also express they haven't seen the show and they don't have plans to see the show. because the show is just some children's cartoon with some inconsistencies and a simple plot, as you'd expect from CN. the show isn't the point. no one cares about it's plot, they care about it's characters. they care about pushing the concept of half ghost boy to a logical extreme and seeing what you can get out of that. can you make it weird and fucked up. how much can you highlight on his trauma and body horror. what identity crisis can you give him and how can you build his interactions with other characters in his world around that and also make those characters fun and unique on their own. sure, the skeleton of canon is there, but the meat lies all in the fanon.

Miraculous Ladybug also exists in this similar vein. the characters, the concepts, those hold intrigue. and not even mentioning the fact the original concept for this show was supposed to be aimed to an older audience, so you can see the bones of something a bit more mature and nuanced under this typical, villain of the week magical girl transformation show. the show itself is a bit shallow and that's not a *bad* thing, it's just the medium it exists within being aimed towards children. but the concepts of a teen girl who's basically a sort of chosen one, a boy who doesn't know his father is the big bad of the show, and their weird identity porn love... square thing. those dynamics are *so* complicated and such a fun sandbox to play in with character-driven fandom.

so, at the core, you have three fandoms that care more about the culturally accepted fanon than the canon, with a good chunk of people often not even consuming the original canon content. and well, DC is an *easy* world to transpose just about anything onto. a boy who's half ghost and fighting supernatural threats? that makes sense, DC has ghost heroes like Deadman already. a girl who has this magical item that gives her animal themed superpowers? i mean that's practically the same thing as Vixen's Totem so that one makes sense too. they fit in pretty easy, no needing to change the world to accommodate them. and of course, if you're a fan of *one* fandom where you don't care for the canon content and only like the fandom sandbox, chances are, you'll get drawn in pretty easily to another fandom with similar mechanics. if you can teach yourself the DP fandom rules/concepts, you can teach yourself the Batfamily fandom rules/concepts. and well, since there's so much crossover in fandom members, why not write the fanfiction? crossover fics will always exist, but with such a shared member base, you have a really big boom.

it's why the characters you see DP interact with in DC are *always* characters who are far more driven by fanon than canon. Danny and John Constantine is a *massive* concept. for people who don't read Hellblazer comics. my poor partner, @divine-dominion has lamented to me pretty often about finding DP content in the Hellblazer tag that is essentially turning Constantine into an OC. because whatever version of Constantine is being written about isn't one bit comics accurate, and really, isn't trying to be. and the same thing happens with Shazam. you watch Young Justice and understand him well enough, you get drawn in by the character concept that you just run with it. people put their favorite blorbos in the same place because hey, wouldn't ghost boy be pretty cool in a city like *Gotham*. how would Batman even react to him. and then, the shipping. because ages for the Batfamily can be easily hand-waved and moved around based on where you plop Danny into the timeline, you have your pick of the litter with him, and same with Ladybug. of course there are the most popular ships but largely, the world is your oyster.

i don't think this is the worst thing in the world for either fandom. it's not hard to filter out the crossover tags and scroll past content i don't like. and sure, i see the appeal of making your blorbos from two different places meet. i've got my drafts *full* of DC/MHA crossover ideas because well, i like them both and think that would be cool. i think my only gripe with it is when DP or MLB crossover content seeps it's way into the wrong tags. using the above example, if you're writing about Danny and Constantine but there's zero content of the actual Hellblazer comics, i don't think you need the Hellblazer tag, just the Constantine character tag. tbh i wish this extended onto Ao3 and people utilized fandom tags better. if you're writing Batfamily fanfiction that is very clearly and obviously WFA driven in characterization and concepts, i would far prefer those fics be tagged with the WFA fandom tag rather than the Batman (comics) fandom tag. because well, you're not writing about the Batman comics. and there's nothing wrong with that, but it helps if you don't confuse yourself for content striving to interact with canon more. (this especially extends to Young Justice, by the way. if you're writing for the Young Justice tv show please, please stop using the Young Justice (comics) fandom tag. i'm at my wit's end- /lh)

the whole thing is fascinating. i've got zero interest in entering DP or MLB as fandoms because that's not my speed, but witnessing it as an outsider is my favorite pastime. i see a *lot* of posts going around the DC x DP space that are helping explain to people who's who, what's what, and understanding the canon/fanon of both of these properties so others can better enter the space. which is not something you'd need in a fandom driven only by it's canon content, but it is sweet watching others try to help newbies enter the space. it's a very inviting fandom space, i think, whether you lament it's existence or not. they're just sitting in their corner with their blorbos, and i gotta respect that. the posts explaining the Batfamily to DP fans are always fun for me to read, even if i disagree with some of the characterizations in them because it helps shine a light on what the fans of this crossover regard as "important" enough about each fandom to be worth including those sorts of primers. very fascinating stuff.

[youhavelessproof]

Not a batcest shipper but your brudick propaganda helped me understand the context behind how these characters were written and how real life affected their characterizations. I don't think I can ever become a batcest shipper, I find the idea of Bruce and dick being brothers who's relationship is constantly evolving but always having that foundation of trust and deep understanding far too interesting, but I do understand why some ppl are. I find it interesting how fandom tries so hard sanitise and arrange relationships and dynamics into neat little easily digestible boxes and in the process of doing so we sometimes strip the most interesting parts of these characters

Ppl are taking these polls a tad bit too seriously and I feel like ppl just need to learn how to block, move on and not actively try to consume things that make them so upset. So 👍🏿

I totally respect not being a batcest shipper. everyone has their likes and dislikes. I really appreciate you listening to what I had to say though. even without shipping Brudick, I think it's important to understand the history behind it. if only to deeper your understanding of their bond (platonic or not) and just Batman comics in general.

it's not even just fandom that's trying to box the relationships into easy to understand categories. DC has really been pushing the Batfamily into those categories too. that's why, even if you hate batcest (not talking about you specifically) you should also be upset about the current state of found family in DC.

complex relationships like Bruce and Dick, (like you said they had a very interesting brotherly relationship,) that's being reduced to Bruce being Dick's dad and that's all. even if you always read them with parental undertones, which you definitely could, that was never all they were.

though fandom has been taking that and running with it and it makes it hard to have nuanced conversations about character dynamics. I mentioned Dick and Jason in one of my responses and like. part of their fun was that they were sorta brothers but they were also just two guys that had a mutual connection to a very important person in their lives. but now they're just brothers. that's all. Dick isn't allowed to have complex feelings about Jason, that's just his baby brother. that's all.

I love mama bird Dick, don't get me wrong, but he's not a character to just sit there and have no complex feelings about people. sometimes it feels like Dick is made of conflicted feelings.

wow this got out of hand. basically I am agreeing with you very hard. comic book characters are messy, let them be that way. they can still love each other and not be this perfect father/son dynamic. Dick doesn't need to call Dick dad for there to be a mutual understanding that Bruce did help raise him.

also ngl I do have to remind myself to not respond to everything. I'm trying to be good about only responding to stuff that's directly responding to something I said (aka reblogs) or when I'm addressed directly. it can be hard when I see people misinterpreting my words, but that's bound to happen and I need to let it go. (though I keep noticing that there are anons talking about "these people" or "Brudick shippers" or "that propaganda post" on the poll blog and it is a little entertaining to be referred to as a boogeyman figure. like you can just call me YouHaveLessProof or Moon. promise I won't appear in your room if you do.)

[starwriterulia]

Tomb of the Goshenite Stargazer Dragon - Chapter 5

SUBJECT MATERIAL WARNINGS FOR THIS FANFICTION ARE INCLUDED IN THE MASTERLIST POST OF MY BLOG AND THE FIRST CHAPTER OF THIS FANFICTION.

Bat dividers by @violetbudd

Scene cut and creator support banners by @cafekitsune

Latest update: August 18, 2024. Added chapter summary. Added scene cut and "Support your creators by reblogging" banners. Added ⏭️ emoji below end of chapter banner with text explaining its function as a navigational button.

Chapter summary: Stephanie and Faith fail to be intimate, Faith citing that they're siblings now, and Stephanie understands and apologises. Faith shares the near-incestous memory she had hidden out of shame, Barbara outside the door listening. Barbara shares this with Dick and Tim off-screen, and their mission to be friends with Faith and guide her is reaffirmed. The next morning is Monday, and Stephanie and Faith eat breakfast, and as Faith practices with Tim, she talks with Dick about what Ra's might have experienced and done in her Dragon Tomb, revealing a loophole Ra's could access in her Puzzle Tower, a door to it in her Dragon Tomb, that Dick makes her amend immediately, Barbara helping. Faith divulges her love for Tohou, almost all off-screen, as the group play Wii games after dinner. Stephanie and Faith go to bed with their pyjamas on.

Fandoms: DC Comics, Batfamily, no Batcest, Thalassic Space (OC; takes inspiration The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, Assassin's Creed: Black Flag, Silent Hill 2, Silent Hill 3, and other sci-fi, fantasy and horror titles, as well as original concepts, such as the science and lore of the galaxy.)

[In order of appearance] Characters: Faith Lawson (TBA; self-insert), Stephanie Brown (The Spoiler). Barbara Gordon (Batgirl), Tim Drake (Red Robin), Dick Grayson (Nightwing).

Word Count: 7093 (Slightly long, but not too long!)

Content warning: Mention of a sexual ick (feces from how Faith's body tenses up), details of the struggles of wiping after using the bathroom due to dwarfism, a retelling of Faith's near-incestuous experience, discussion of Faith's stressful experience of learning about sex on the Internet without her parents' proper guidance, canon-typical violence, major character death.

Chapter 1 - Chapter 2 - Chapter 3 - Chapter 4 - Chapter 5 - Chapter 6

Stephanie flicked on the bedside lamp as Faith entered and closed the door. "All right," Stephanie took hold of Faith's left wrist with both hands and pulled her to stand at the left side of the bed. "Lift your arms! Lemme see you again, girl!"

"Um."

"Are you scared?"

"Well, now that I'm part of the Batfamily, it's inappropriate. I know this is just what you do, but I'd rather people like me."

"Oh, oh shit, I totally get that! I'm so sorry. I'm sorry for hitting on you, too."

"Thanks"

"Do you just wanna talk, then?"

"Can we talk and platonically cuddle?"

"Hell yes!"

"Yay!" As the girls crawled into bed, Stephanie laying down and extending her right arm, Barbara arrived at the door with a plate of apple pie and ice cream in each hand. "Do you want to be on top like this?"

'Yep, Barbara, you should have waited an hour.' Barbara thought.

"Yes, please." Faith said, lowering herself to rest her head partially on Stephanie's shoulder and partially into her armpit. Faith sighed. "So, part of my asexuality is that I give myself the ick."

"Mhm?"

'I should just go.' Barbara picked up the plates. Her watch vibrated. She looked at it.

"When my body tenses up to cum, I shit a little, and that turns me off, and I can't finish."

'SOFFFIAA just sent me a message.' Barbara interacted with her watch to open the Messages tab of TSRPG, and navigated to chat with SOFFIAA.

"Oh, well that's not good. Do you ever just sit on a towel?"

SOFFFIAA has turned her attention to you, bearing a message.

SOFFFIAA: Please don't go.

"I do, but then the towel needs to be cleaned." Faith said. Barbara heard Dick approaching, and glanced at him.

SOFFFIAA: You wanted to know the story Faith hasn't told you.

"And it smells like piss, so I just..."

SOFFFIAA: Have you figured out that I am actually Faith's Anima?

"Sigh, I just end up rubbing my dildo against myself a little bit,"

BARBARA GORDON: Hm. No, but it makes sense.

DIck whispered, "You're talking to SOFFFIAA and eavesdropping?"

SOFFFIAAA: Well, now that you're informed, please stay.

"'Cause I can't reach with just my arms, which is why my panties sometimes smell like piss,"

"Aw."

"Yes, Dick Grayson, I am." Barbara said.

BARBARA GORDON: OK. I will. Thanks for the heads up.

SOFFFIAA: It was my duty and pleasure to assist with the healthy status of your friendship with the Great Little Starwriter.

"Unless I had the time and desire to actually lift my leg or really bend over,"

SOFFFIAA has turned her attention away.

Barbara closed the app as Tim came near. "Liiiittle creepy." She whispered. 'Oops.'

Dick said, "It can probably still hear you. Er, she, sorry."

"Sorry, no offense, SOFFIAA. You know the stereotype."

"But when I feel the shit coming, I run to the toilet, and then I've lost the horny." Faith said. As she spoke, Barbara, Dick and Tim waited for Barbara's watch to recieve a new message. It didn't.

"Aw, that sucks."

"Huh, an artificial consciousness that actually isn't capable of evil?" Said Dick.

"I just wish I didn't have a body."

Tim said, "Well, SOFFFIAA is an actual person. Chandra, remember?"

"Riiight."

"Oh, Faith." Stephanie said, kindly, gently placing her right hand on Faith's back and massaging. "You can't do that, and neither can I. And please don't say that you could, with magic."

"'Kay." Faith mumbled, dropping her hand and gaze.

Stephanie sighed through her nose. "How can I help you?"

"I just want to cuddle and kiss a girl. Can't kiss you, as we've said."

"Oh, I know."

"Also, I don't think I'd like the taste or feel of pussy, much less ass. And having Ra's dick in my mouth was really uncomfortable."

"He mouth-raped you?!"

Dick angrily whispered, "He mouth-raped her?!"

Tim bit his lower lip in anger. "Bruce didn't share that with us."

Barbara said, "I guess he just assumed she would tell us."

"Yeah." Said Tim.

"Yeah, Ra's was actually there. Honestly, I was curious, and I thought it might satiate his pursuit of me for a little."

"It wouldn't have."

"Nope." Said Tim.

"Yeah. Also, my hormones were why I didn't use magic to throw him then and there. Giving a dick head with a bit of throating hurt in the awkward way I thought it would. Having a small mouth and a gag reflex didn't help. I mean, it got easier, but he said something that gave me the opportunity to manifest Argophael, and then I threw Ra's."

"Right, oh-kay. Well, you got it done. Throwing Ra's, I mean. Sorry you had to experience that."

"Thanks."

"But like, this? Being this close to a girl? It's a lot less stressful than what my brain thinks about with a guy."

"It is, isn't it?'

"'Cause they smell different, and my body and brain reacts different, and I don't want the baby fever I get 'cause I'd have a high risk pregnancy. Also, my IUD is supposed to be useless because I'm a demigoddess, but it's a lie."

"It is?"

"It's in the Script, which is why Urania told me that. My Role as the Great Little Starwriter is to provide information, but not all of it is true, outside of Thalassic Space. There's a reason that all of the named characters in the stories are actually Actors. None of it's real. When Ra's finds out, he's going to be pissed."

"Right, 'cause his plans to use your powers to kill people and use the environment for his cause will be foiled."

"Exactly."

"Huh. Do you want to never have sex with a man?"

"No, I do, just a little, to know what it feels like. But I'm so small, and I get so stressed, and then I shit, I-I can't even use my dildo for longer than two minutes, unless I'm sitting on a towel, and my hormones take priority over the ick, which is really rare."

"Aw, I'm sorry, Faith."

"It's OK. It's not your fault, or even mine, I-I just learned about sex in a scary way 'cause of the Internet."

"What did you see?"

Barbara quietly put down the dessert plates on a nearby table so she could properly listen to the door.

Faith sighed heavily. "You know how, in the Vocaloid community, Rin and Len Kagamine aren't siblings, just mirrors of each other, but a lot of the fandom views them as siblings?"

"Mhm."

"Well, I have a brother." Things clicked in the Batkids' brains. "I dunno why he knew what sex was and agreed to it. He was ten, I was twelve. The farthest we got was our clothes off on his bed."

"Oh, ha, uh, OK."

"Sorry, I don't like this memory, I never talk about it."

"I can see why. You don't have to keep talking about it, if it's making you so stressed, Faith."

"No, I want to finish it. Then Mom came in, asking what all the noise was for, and then she got loud asking why we were naked. I got the most spankings, of course, and I told her that I got the idea from the Internet, so I had my phone taken away for a month. The thing is, my subconsious has made the memory worse in that my teenage brother is the one who wants to do it, and I'm my adult self with the memory and the knowledge I've learned about why incest happens and is a fetish, and I just wake up angry and screaming and wishing I could just erase the memory from my mind. And I know it's just a dumb thing I almost did as a kid, but I don't like sex as an adult because I keep thinking of the power imbalance between men and women, if you don't think about people who flip that on it's head, but I had to learn about that from the Internet, not hetero-normative society."

"And I had to learn from the Internet about the power that adults have over children, and what child autonomy is. Consensual sex is between two adults with a socially acceptable age difference, or who are the same age, and sex is supposed to be romantic, non-stressful and fun. I-I'm just so lost from having all of this information, and the things I've seen online, trying to see what sexual acts I do and don't like. I've always felt more comfortable watching two women or men or queer people having sex, not a man and a woman. The monster fucker part of me came from the second fandom I joined, TMNT, but in 2012 thanks to the Wii game."

"Oh God, that movie." Stephanie and Faith laughed.

"Sex with a penis looks painful, and I don't understand why they repeat certain words in certain ways instead of sometimes saying those words to communicate when something feels good or needs to stop. I do like the moaning and sounds, though." Faith sighed.

"It sounds like you like safe, consensual sex that's a little on the quiet side, Faith. That's perfectly normal."

"I know. The only thing I can do about it is role-play with myself so I'm control, but like I said, I gross myself out, and I can't finish."

"That's not true, you can ask for help."

"I tried, with online dating, and there's no one in my town who likes what I do who's not a minor or dating, and you know what online dating is like, right?"

"Yeah, it's no picnic."

"Exactly. Me trying to help myself is what happened earlier today with my Animus."

"Right."

"All of this shit is why I'm on the asexual spectrum, a-and one more reason for me to not talk to people." Faith said. Stephanie hummed. "My experiences with online dating have just confirmed what I learned, and have further confirmed my fears and icks about what it's like to be a cisgender woman. I've even learned about what it's like to be transgender, and I like to be friends with them and people of other genders because they feel safe. I know I'll never be in a romantic relationship with a queer person, even a woman, because I'm stuck in my brain, and in the past, a-and again, I'm just so, so lost." Faith sobbed.

Stephanie gently said, "Faith. That's not true. You can love whoever you want to."

"Yeah, but I can't even cry because Mom said it's a pity-party, and I'm supposed to cry for others, not me. So I don't want to live, and I don't want love, and I don't want sex, I just want peace and freedom, but I don't know what that is outside of a story, so I made a whole galaxy." Faith huffed. "I'm tired." She whimpered, nestled into Stephanie, and closed her eyes.

Stephanie was speechless for a few seconds. "I'm sorry, Faith."

"It's not your fault, and it's not mine, I just learned things that have made me so scared and icky, and I just have to deal with it."

"I know. It sounds like it. Well, thank you for being so brave and telling me about that memory, and how you feel. I promise that none of us will ever take advantage of you like that, OK?"

"I know. It's why I didn't immediately ask Platonia to cut the shit and send Ra's home a husk of himself for a year. I wanted to meet you guys, I-I wanted friends!" Faith started crying, burrowing her face into Stephanie. Stephanie clicked her tongue and tightened her grip around Faith, rubbing her back. Tears began to run from Barbara's eyes. Dick's eyes watered as he reached out to caress Barbara's arm. Tim had lowered his own wettened eyes and sighed.

"All I want is friends, but all my life, it's been so hard! And I know why now, and what to do, but it's still so hard! So I made a galaxy, and, and..." Faith grumbled, and tucked her face into Stephanie's body. Stephanie felt the tears from Faith's eyes. How they didn't flow. How they were trapped.

Stephanie cried for her, and sniffled. "I'm so sorry, Faith."

"Thank you for listening and not screaming that I'm an incestuous piece of shit."

"Is that what you're afraid of people calling you, when you tell them that story?"

"Yeah, and I don't tell it often 'cause sometimes my friends have trauma directly caused by incest, or familial molestation. But my Homestuck friends, they understood, they were kind to me, and then we moved on! And I try to live like that, I try to move on, but the dream world, my subconsious, it won't let go."

"Maybe that's OK, Faith." Faith groaned and shook her head. "Maybe that's your brain's way of telling you why it's important to remember."

Faith sniffled, looked up a little, and nodded. "That makes sense. I've probably realised that before, but like all of the good things that come from my memories, and even what I'm supposed to be doing in the present, they get lost in noise."

"Can you let go of those thoughts for now, and cuddle with me?"

Faith nodded. "I'd like that."

"Good." Stephanie said. Faith relaxed into Stephanie, her eyes closing again, her right hand carressing Stephanie's lower abdomen. Seeing this, Stephanie closed her eyes too.

"You smell nice." Faith quietly said.

"You do, too." Stephanie replied.

Barbara knocked twice. "Uh, it's me! I've got apple pie and vanilla ice cream, if you want it." Dick and Tim moved left, away from the door.

"Yeah." Faith muttered.

"Sure, Barbara. You can come in." Stephanie said. Barbara opened the door with her free hand, picked up the plate she had set down, and entered the room, closing the door with her right foot. Barbara put the plates on the nightstand, and sat on the bed. "Did you hear any of that?"

"Yeah. I had literally just stopped at the door when she started. Faith, hey. Can you look at me, please?" The little woman turned her head to look at Barbara.

"I just want you to know that it's all OK, now. You know what you were about to do was wrong so much that it's been a burden that your subconscious has used to take away your courage to live a good life." Faith nodded. "That's why you're so afraid of sex and only comfortable with it in your mind, when it's completely under your control, right?" Faith nodded more. "You just happen to have magic now, and it became an illusion fulfilled by your Animus, your male-self, earlier today. Although, that illusion did burn part of the forest." Faith giggled. Barbara and Stephanie chuckled. "Good, that tells me you're not angry at yourself for that."

"I'm not trying to say you should suck it up and get over it, OK, hon? I just want you to know that you've been heard, and that you have permission to move on from your friends." Barbara said. Faith's eyes leaked, and she sniffled. "It's OK." Barbara whispered. Faith cried three tones, and turned while sitting up to hug Barbara, who returned the hug. Stephanie sat up and held Faith from behind, wrapping her arms around Faith's stomach. They were quiet for a full minute. "You gonna be OK with her, Steph?"

"Yeah. She said she just wants cuddles. We're family, now. I really shouldn't hit on her. I won't, again."

"Oh, I get that, that's good. And sisterly cuddling sounds lovely. I'll leave you two alone, then."

"Thank you." Faith said in her tears. "For not saying I'm horrible."

Barbara clicked her tongue and stroked Faith's hair. "I don't think you've never been horrible, Faith. You dealt with the hand you were given as well as you could, all alone. We're here for you, OK? No more dealing with yourself and the world alone." Faith nodded, sniffling. Barbara removed herself from the bed as Faith and Stephanie laid down, and then Barbara left the room. She approached Dick and Tim, and said, "Let's, uh, go downstairs to talk about this."

Barbara, Dick and Tim arranged themselves near the computer. They were all crying, Tim and Dick red with anger. "I'm going to friggin' cap Ra's in the nutsack, when I see him." Dick growled.

"I'll take his head off." Said Tim, sniffling. "He doesn't deserve to know the real reason Faith's so defensive with him, or why she caved in and gave him a little satisfaction and control."

"Yep." Said Dick.

"Damn right." Barbara said.

Tim said, "She let him take her here just so she could stop being alone, for once. W-We can't let her into his hands."

"Yeah, what happened this morning is all he's getting." Dick said.

"Agreed." Said Barbara.

Dick said to Barbara, a fresh tear rolling down his cheek. "I'm so sorry I looked at her like that, Babs."

"Dick, I-I think that was OK, in a way. She was laughing about it. Like Steph said, none of us are going to take advantage of her."

"Yeah." Dick mumbled, sniffling and wiping his eyes.

"We're, we're gonna be the best friends she could ever have." Tim said. Barbara and Dick nodded firmly, humming in accord. "And we're gonna make her into a really awesome Batgirl." Barbara lifted her cheeks and nodded. Dick nodded, too.

"How about we, uh, call it a night, boys?" Barbara said. Tim and Dick nodded.

"I'm gonna make her a "We're so sorry" gift basket." Tim said. Dick and Barbara laughed.

"Hell yeah, she'd love that."

Dick said, "Do you even know what to put in it so she doesn't tell you that she doesn't like something you picked out, but appreciates it anyways?"

"Oh yeah, I've got it all figured out. Lactose-free chocolate, a couple of fantasy related toys, maybe a nice plushie, something to read, and I'm guessing she's a Skittles kind of girl."

"Oh, for sure, she's a Skittles kind of girl." Barbara said, Dick laughing.

"Hm, Original, Sour or Berry?"

"Go with Original."

"Right. Or maybe I'll do Original and Berry?"

"How big is this basket gonna be, Tim?" Dick said, laughing.

"Oh, as big as I can make it." The three laughed. "Should I put a gift card for something in there, do you think?"

"Ooh, that's a good idea." Barbara said. "I had a look in her bag, and I think she does like fashion."

"Perfect."

"But she thrifts. She told me about her favourite outfit."

"Oh, OK, so maybe I'll get her a gift card for the book store at the mall instead, or for the game store. Heck, why not both?"

"Why not?" Barbara enthusiastically repeated.

Tim sighed. "OK, I'm done. Goodnight!" Tim began to go upstairs.

"Goodnight." Said Barbara and Dick.

"I'll get flowers!" Dick called out.

"OK!" Tim replied.

"Oh, she would love that."

"I'm guessing lilies are her favourite."

"I think so, yeah."

"Shall we head to bed to, babe?"

"Yes," Barbara said, starting to walk towards the stairs with Dick. "I think I've had enough brain activity for one night."

Sunday, February 11, 2024. 7:30 AM.

Barbara and Dick were cooking breakfast, and Tim was lounging upstairs on the couch when Stephanie and Faith emerged from the bedroom. "Well, good morning!" Tim said.

"Good morning." Faith said, groggily but smiling.

"Feeling better?"

"Now that I slept and took my meds, and had a bit of candy from my bag that I brought over, which surprisingly didn't expire during its trip from Earth-33, yes."

"Oh, good." Tim said, laughing, then Faith entered the bathroom and shut the door. Stephanie sighed. "Are you good?"

"Yeah. She had me worried, last night, before Barbara came in. I slept good too, i-it was just a shock to hear that the reason Ra's is affecting her so deeply is from a memory like that." Stephanie said. Tim nodded, humming. "Dick and Barbara are downstairs cooking?"

"Yep. Should be just about done. Then we're on for training, if Faith is OK with that."

"Actually, I have to make an errand, so you'll have to save me a plate."

"Sure, not a problem."

"Thanks." Stephanie quickened her pace towards the stairs. Faith emerged from the bathroom with combed hair, and a smiling Tim walked her downstairs.

"So, who's your favourite turtle?"

"Oh, Raphael."

"Oh, ha ha! So it's not that far of a leap for your favourite Robin to be Jason."

"Yeah, I've got a type of fictional man."

"Who's your most problematic fictional male crush?"

Faith sighed. "Ruvik from The Evil Within."

"Oh, wow, that's a choice all right!" Tim and Faith laughed.

"What?" Barbara said, laughing, as Tim and Faith came to and sat at the table, where Barbara and Dick sat beside each other, Tim and Faith across from them. "What about Ruvik from The Evil Within?"

"It's his danger-boy swagger, OK?" Faith said, chuckling.

"Danger-boy swagger?" Repeated Tim, Barbara and Dick.

"Yeah-ha ha. I saw him, and I was like, 'smash', and that's the thought. That's it."

"Oh-ho-ho-kay!" Said Tim.

Stephanie returned with a small box of white chalk, seeing the table had been cleared but a plate covering another plate on the kitchen counter, and Faith practicing blocking with Tim, Dick coaching, arms open, eyes watching Faith's movement. Barbara was interacting with the computer. "Yes, and then down, yes. Yes, eh, a little more force, if you can?"

"Hngh!"

"Yeah, like that!"

"Ow." Faith mumbled.

"Her forearms, Dick."

"I know, they're short and the bones are bowed, so it hurts more for her."

"Volleyball, but so much worse." Faith groaned.

"Again, please."

Stephanie lifted her left hand, which held the box. "I got the chalk for you!"

"Oh, thanks! Um, later." Faith said, as she and Tim continued the motions.

"Okie!" Stephanie put the box of chalk down on the desk area.

"You want to get your other Relics today?" Said Dick.

"Yeah. I thought that might be a good idea. Ra's has surely gone back into Platonia to look for more information, and Platonia might have directed him Backstage. The Staff, probably scared shitless, told him about the Backdoor, which goes into the eighth grade hallway of my high school, which the Rondo Theatre is in."

"Right, the theatre is the high school auditorium."

"Ra's might have explored a little, realised he was in a dream world, but not have known its name, ow!"

"Sorry!" Said Tim. "Try raising your arm a little like this."

"Oh, like this?"

"Yes, and then back to!"

"Oof, OK," Faith said. Dick chuckled. "And then he might have tried to wake up. If he did, he'd be back in Platonia, and he'd start a timeloop that would only break if he left the school. So, Ra's, outside and standing on campus, would have either been faced with the existential dread of the O-type star or the moon as they are in the Dream World On Paper, or looked at the sky and felt no fear."

"The latter option."

"OK, so then he wouldn't have woken up. He's still looking for information, so he's been around Mansion 1, the Town Play, and has talked to the dreaming people, people in a coma, and people who live in the 28 Mansions as their afterlife."

"Right, I remember."

"Bend your knees but not your back a little, hon!" Said Barbara.

"Ow, mmph, OK. Like, ow, this?"

"Yes, good."

"Either Ra's was pulled into the kind of the conversation that normally starts when you meet a neighbour or a new acquaintance, something you do when you're just dreaming and letting things happen,"

"Mhm." Said Dick.

"Or he might have observed a conversation, but either way, he would have realised the statuses of the Town Play citizens. He might have asked where to learn more about Red Storm Earth, or if they knew who I was. He might have asked directly, 'Can you tell me about Red Storm Earth?'. The citizens would have told him that it's a Staged Scenario, and all of the details, and that because it's Staged, it doesn't actually happen. It's just an elaborate and convincing Special Event that can be performed at the Rondo Theatre. That would anger Ra's, and he'd probably ask why, or have said 'It won't be that way for much longer.', and attacked, and the poor citizen would be woken up or returned to Mansion 0 and required to walk the Landfill Where Loved Things Go to the Staff Office, and from there receive a go-ahead from one of the workers to take the elevator back up. If he hit someone in a coma, they'd die and go to Mansion 0, too."

"Anyway, Ra's would have asked the nearest citizen, scared shitless of course, about who I really was, and how to acquire me, heugh," Faith made a vomitting noise.

"Swiper no swiping!" Said Stephanie. The group laughed.

"And the citizen would have told Ra's that I'm just an author, the creative mind behind Thalassic Space, that none of it's real if I'm not alive and no one has been approved as Editor of my documents, and that Ra's can't have me. Ow!"

"Mind your ribs!" Said Tim.

"They, or another citizen, would have said that Thalassic Space only has evil because evil people have Soul Bridges and have been to the Dream World on Paper, people like Ra's. Another person would have called the Oracles by then, and they would appear and try to kick Ra's out of the Dream World on Paper. It would be a battle, instead, since Ra's' status as a demon means that you have to literally pull him out of the Dream World on Paper. We might not have all day until he critically injures or kills an Oracle, the latter of which would be one hell of a scary accomplishment. Ra's' Passive Ability that I will remind you is only applicable when in Thalassic Space, Demonic Insight, would have told him to take the robes of that Oracle, giving him Dreamer Mage powers. He might have accepted that suggestion, and the Oracles would flee, taking the citizens into shelter. Ra's would be bored, probably, and then return here. Well, to wherever he fell asleep. I doubt that Argophael threw him all the way home. I was just aiming for him to land on the other side of the ocean."

"So he's somewhere in Europe or Africa, which is close to home." Said Dick.

"Yep. Ah-ha-ow!" Faith began to cry, and rub her right bicep.

"Sorry, but that would have happened." Tim said.

"I know, but my nerves are right there."

"Sorry. You OK?"

"Yeah, just ow. Let's keep going."

Dick said, "Good. Reset a little, TIm."

"Um, so regardless of where he landed, he's done playing games and trying to get information. I don't think he's going to learn about the Invitation of Nerobzal. I think the League has, though."

"Oh?" Said Dick.

"Yeah. Ra's might have touched the entrance door, or opened it, on either of his visits. He could have walked to the town and figured out where he was. When I sent him home, the first time, he definitely told the assassins where the door was. They've been in my tomb. My cat anthro friends didn't stop them. They hid immediately. Anthros have a heightened sixth, seventh and eighth sense, which are vestibular, proprioceptive and interoceptive. It's part of the mutation their Five Mortal Qualities undergo when a fetus is exposed to more than five minutes of magic. Embryos and sperm can also be mutated this way."

"Right," Tim said. "And as a result, sixty-five percent of Thalassic Space's population are anthros."

"Yes. Uh, so if Ra's used Platonia to return to the Dragon Tomb with the League, they snooped around my tomb, whoops!"

"I'm fine, I'm fine! That was good!"

"OK, good! Um, they killed the draugr, probably taking treasure, and awakened the Dragon Priests again. I have no doubt that they were defeated and at least one qA eaten alive by the Dragon Priests, and then the rest fled. Keep in mind that the Dragon Priests are Actors too, so if one gets killed, someone else just fills the Role."

"Mhm." Said Dick.

"Platonia returned whatever assassins were alive home, but a door opened for Ra's into my high school in the Dream World on Paper, probably one of the classroom doors as I was entering the gym hallway, and then he followed me and what happened next happened. Anyway, geez, long way to get to what I was saying, I just didn't want it to be out of the blue."

"You're fine, we appreciate the thought." Said Dick.

"Thanks."

"You're so good at telling stories!" Said Stephanie.

Faith melodically said, "Thank you. Um, so Ra's might go there one more time. He's either going to fight the Dragon Priests again, or he's going to look closer at the lower level of the first two rooms and realise there's a pattern. It's the solution to the small door in the third room that's a little like a maze, and has some standing draugr sarcophagi around it, along with some empty vertical alcoves that have candles, pots and gold, ya know, as Skyrim dungeons do."

"Mhm."

"Beyond that door is my Puzzle Tower, which I will remind you is also guarded by cat anthros. Either Ra's was like, 'Aw, hell no!'," Faith said. Stephanie and Barbara giggled. "And turned back, not wanting to waste his time, or he explored a little. In one of those rooms is my Dragon Hoard. All of the non-performative art gifts I've received are stored there. In the back-right of the room is a traditional ram horn instrument guarded by a slumbering black goat. This horn can summon Naamah. Ra's would have been drawn to this room, and wouldn't need to find the solution to its puzzle because that horn would have called him to find it and use it. Naamah would pity Ra's for being given the blue-ball treatment by a Cultist of Asherah, and given him a fresh Nest."

The others widened their eyes, parted their lips, held their breaths. Tim stopped moving. Noticing a moment later, so did Faith. Dick was out of wind. "No." He made eye contact with Faith.

"The horn is meant for the people of Thalassic Space to abort an unwanted anti-Christ or insect demon without dying. Not everyone is comfortable or wanting dark magic in their family or community. The only place that was desired was Bafsina, before the Palette Civil War. Ra's could just cut my stomach open, stuff the Nest in there, and I would die."

"No." Dick shook his head.

"You would have to drench me in boiling saltwater or burn me to stop its spread, of course."

"No." Dick shook his head furiously.

"Ra's won't want to cause disasters that are just fake, for show on Stage. He'll want to hurt me. And he won't want sex, anymore."

"No!" Dick closed the distance between him and Faith, coming between her and Tim. "You can't just make stuff up like this!"

"It's not made up, Dick." Said Tim.

"I don't want to hear it!"

"It's true, though. It's in the document, along with the other magical items that can summon various angels, demons and entities. It would be that easy for Ra's to just get it over with."

Dick sighed heavily with his chest. "So we don't have time, or even a flipping chance, to help you defend yourself."

Faith shook her head. "Ra's is angry. I don't think this is going to end well, and it's going to end soon. It might end today, with how easily Ra's can access Platonia, and come back."

"Could he come here?"

"If he knows I'm here, yes. He'll try the Batcave, first. Or, he could ask the Umbrella Man where I am. It wouldn't be cheating. It would be asking for directions out of Platonia to the desired destination, and since Ra's is a demon, the Umbrella Man would see him as a friend."

"Frick!" Dick gripped his hair with both hands. "Faith, why did you make it so easy for him?!"

"Because Thalassic Space is supposed to be friendly. So it's friendly to intruders, if the intruder becomes a friend to the Nero Spirits and-or canonical evils."

Dick dropped his hands and shook his head, making eye contact with Faith. Faith had curled her arms up around her chest. Barbara said, "Dick, you're scaring her."

"She should be scared! You know what you've done, right?"

Faith slowly said, "Offer him an easy way out?"

"Yes, and an easy way to kill you!" Dick sighed and shook his clawed hands in the air in front of him, gesturing to Faith, who looked to the floor. Dick sighed again. "I'm sorry, I, I just can't let you let this happen."

"What do you want me to do?"

"Take it away from him." Dick pointed to the desk, where Faith's Chromebook sat. "Open up your document, and change it. Make it so that demons who aren't from Thalassic Space can't use Platonia or any powers from Thalassic Space."

"What's the reasoning behind it, though?"

"Are you seriously asking that?"

"I need a reason and a connection to a god, demon or entity for it to make sense within Thalassic Space's logic."

"THEN MAKE ONE UP!" Dick shouted. Faith moved her left side away from Dick, and hurried to her computer. She opened it. It started up slow. Dick stood behind her, arms crossed.

"Dick." Barbara said, cautiously.

"No."

"Dick, give her some space." Dick looked at Barbara. He huffed and turned, walking away and leaning on part of the desk near Barbara. Faith entered her password, waited about ten seconds for the app icons to load, and opened Microsoft Word. She pressed CTRL + F, and typed "Horn of Naamah". She began to edit the section. She hummed, eyes on the ceiling. "What is it, hon?"

"I don't know the Egyptian gods off the top of my head, I need the list of who's related to the afterlife and evil. Doesn't have to be both, just one of the two."

"Well, that's Anubis, the god of death, and Apopis is the god of chaos."

"Perfect, thank you. What does Apopis look like?"

"He's a serpent."

"What colour is he, usually?"

"What colour?"

"Yeah, look up images and tell me if he's black, gold or something." Faith said. Barbara typed on the computer. "Just for a quick entry into the Character List. I've only got the ones I've needed, so far. Every god in the pantheons I haven't needed is just implied, not named or described."

"He's gold with blue details, hon."

"Ooh, perfect, thank you." Faith typed for five minutes. "OK! I think that's enough."

"Let's see." Barbara walked over and looked at Faith's screen. "Yeah, OK."

"Do you wanna read how I described Apopis?"

"Sure." Faith clicked on his named in the Outline. Barbara read.

"Mm, yeah, that's good! I like that."

"Thank you." Faith turned her back to look at Dick. "I'm not angry that you were so agitated by the loophole. I'm actually glad that you reacted. It's not easy, writing with no feedback. Things fall through all the time, and it won't all make sense without help."

Dick sighed, and softly smiled. "Thank you for not taking it personally, Faith." He approached, and hugged her. "I'm sorry for scaring you."

"It's OK, I forgive you." Faith patted his upper right shoulder. Dick broke the hug, and found a smile on Faith's face. Dick sighed again, his smile growing. "So, now that I've taken away Ra's access to my stuff, can we go back to training?"

"Of course. How about we give Tim a break, and you go against me?"

"OK!"

"Good! Enough!" Dick said. Faith rolled to the right, ending her straddle of him, into a stand. She was making eye contact with Tim.

"Are you OK?" Tim asked. Dick grunted as he flung himself onto his feet, crouching then straightening.

"Was that a bounce?" Faith looked shocked, her mouth gaping.

"Was what a—?"

"Yeah, that was a little bit of a bounce." Said Dick. Faith smiled widely, teeth apart.

"Oh! So, your body is trying to remember how to jump again!"

"I think so! Eee!" Faith clapped.

"Oh, that's awesome!" Said Barbara.

"Yay, Faith!" Stephanie said.

"Woo hoo!" Dick said. "Well, we'll move onto that tomorrow, then, and see how that goes, yeah?"

"Yeah!"

"Good."

"Would you like some help in the shower again, Miss Faith?" Barbara said, coming towards Faith. Dick went to the kitchen to help Tim and Stephanie finish preparing dinner.

"Eh, maybe?"

"I think so. C'mon." Barbara and Faith began to the stairs. Faith stumbled as she took the first corner, and Barbara caught her back and left shoulder. "Whoop!"

"Aa! Thanks!" Faith said, as Barbara set Faith down.

"No problem!" They entered the bathroom, Barbara closing the door and watched Faith undress, groaning in pain occasionally, and put her clothes on the counter, as Barbara removed her own clothes. "There's our pretty little Batgirl." Faith giggled. 'Glad that's still an instant pick-me-up.'

Barbara helped Faith step over the bathtub. Barbara turned on the water, Faith sighing in content. Faith hummed a Tohou Eurobeat song.

"What T.E.B. song is that?" 'Yesterday, it was little flare.' Barbara said, helping Faith apply shampoo.

"Gensou ga nari yamanai."

"The Fantasy That Does Not Stop Echoing. Do you know the lyrics to that one, too?" Barbara applied shampoo to her own hair. 'Her Japanese pronounciation isn't that bad. You can tell she listened to it lots, as a teenager.'

"Mhm!"

"Seikou no ura ni

Dare mo kitto shiranu saidosutori..." As Faith sang, Barbara helped Faith wash out her hair, apply conditioner, and wash that out too.

"Itsuka gensou yori tooku made

Sono ude ni tsukame Legend of Shade. That's it."

"Yay!" Barbara cheered, a little bit quietly. The girls giggled. "I will say it again: you're pretty good at singing."

"Thanks." Faith grabbed the loufa and applied Dove refreshing body wash with cucumber and green tea to it. "I'm just a light lyric, like I said yesterday, so nothing fancy, but I get the job done pretty all right."

"Oh, I think you're better than 'pretty all right'. I think you have a very nice singing voice." Barbara said, as Faith washed her arms.

Faith blushed, smiling. "Thank you." Faith cleaned her arms, stomach and legs as she continued talking. "And, like I said, I don't usually sing in front of people 'cause Mom said I don't sound good, but my choir teacher said I'm not bad, so I'm confused and embarrassed."

"Aw, I know, hon. Confidence is a hard thing, for lots of people. And, like I also said, yesterday, you will get better, now that you've got us, and even we have our days, m'kay?" Barbara said. Faith nodded. Barbara helped wash Faith's back and shoulders before rinsing out the loufa and giving it more soap and using it for herself. Faith turned off the water, then the shower head, and the girls stepped out and used separate towels to dry themselves, and separate hair brushes to untangle their hair. They redressed and went downstairs, where dinner had been laid out on the table: stir fry with steak strips, bell peppers, cherry tomatoes, snap peas, broccoli and cauliflower.

"Ooh, yum!" Said Faith, as she sat beside Stephanie and Barbara sat at the right head of the table, Dick to her left and Tim beside him.

"You like stir fry?" Said Tim.

"Hard to mess that up!"

"True. Well, dig in."

"Please use the tongs." Said Dick. They all laughed.

"I'd be a monster to use my hands for this." Faith said, grabbing the tongs and filling her plate. Everyone filled their plates, and quietly ate for several minutes.

Dick said, "You've made a lot of progress, in two days, for someone with disability."

"Thank you!" Said Faith. "It hurts, but I can tell I'm actually learning fast, so I think it's worth it."

"Oh, definitely."

"Mhm!" Barbara and Stephanie commented.

"Yeah." Tim added. They reviewed, correcting Faith and filling in gaps in her knowledge of how what she'd been learned worked, and why, and describing a few alternatives they hadn't shown her yet, noting which ones might be impossible for her until she became a lot more agile and gained more core and overall strength. Stephanie and Dick served more apple pie and ice cream for dessert.

"So, who's your favourite Tohou?" Tim asked.

"Oh God." Faith replied. They all laughed. "The one I wanna kiss, the one I wanna be? Which emotion, aha ha ha, do you want me to have towards this Tohou?"

"Whatever emotion you want, I don't care, just tell me about your favourite Tohou." This led into a ramble about Tohou Project that lasted for forty-five minutes. Somehow, Faith ate her ice cream before it melted, and finished her pie. The group moved upstairs to play Wii Sports Resort, and Faith was still going.

"And that's why I'm super gay, and super not sorry." Faith took a bow, flourishing her arms, a Wii remote strapped to her right wrist. The others laughed. "Once again:" In a very good toad voice, "MARRY ME, MARISSA! And that's just up to Mountain of Faith, in brief detail! I didn't even talk about the lore, I was just talking about the girls, and their patterns, and what they mean, and their relationships, and what I've learned from all of that," A sharp inhale. "I haven't even started to tell you what I've learned about storytelling or how awesome ZUN's music is," Another inhale. "Which is why I love Tohou Eurobeat so much!" Faith panted, then focused on Swordplay versus Stephanie. The friends laughed more. "Bippity boppity, your points are now my property!"

"Oh, shit!" Stephanie said, laughing. After everyone caught their breath, the group talked about Nintendo's history, and present, and eventually it was eight o'clock. Dick and Barbara suited up and went on patrol, and Tim went out for a date with Bernard, leaving Stephanie and Faith to play Mario Party 8 with each other and bots until it was 10:30, and Faith had to take her medications. They called it a night, changing into sleepwear and sharing the bed again.

Click emoji to navigate to next chapter ⏭️

[dukeofthomas]

On the post you recently reblogged.

It's also funny when they condemn Jason wholeheartedly then justify the victim blaming as a valid coping mechanism.

It's a bad coping mechanism. I would have a problem with it if Jason was a guy I knew in real life and his family victim blamed him. I would be disgusted in real life if people did this.

He wasn't even dead for most of it, even if they didn't know that. So in canon it was victim blaming of the falsely assumed dead. I.E. the living. Bruce also did it to his face in Hush.

You know what is also normal. Wanting the person who hurt you so deeply dead. People have campaigned for people who hurt them or a loved one to get the death penalty in real life. Are they non-validly coping with/responding to trauma unlike victim blamers?

Like, they can be biased, we all are. But pretending rational morality when it doesn't actually 100% make sense. Why can't people admit their blorbo did something immoral by victim blaming? I know murder isn't moral. (I also know 'enhanced interrogation techniques' are not only immoral but famously ineffective.) I can enjoy Jason.

Being angry at someone after they died is normal. Those thoughts are just Anger from the five stages of grief. But that's supposed to be moved past; it's supposed to be temporary. It's not supposed to become a 'coping mechanism', and it's not okay for it to be verbalized and continued for years. That's unacceptable and disgusting. I agree with you 👍

And actually funnily enough, IRL I'm anti-death penalty and not an eye-for-an-eye type of guy, all for rehabilitation and restorative justice and shit along those lines. But those are my logical, moral stances. On an emotional scale, I understand wanting those who hurt you to suffer and die, and Jason is oftentimes my fantasy for getting to do that. I can't judge anyone for wanting revenge and suffering on the ppl who have harmed them, I am one of them.

I find Jason a lot more tolerable in a lot of ways because when he tortures people for information, it's acknowledged (and oftentimes condemned) for being a horrible thing to do, but when it's one of the more Heroic batfamily members, there's no issue with it, and it's not portrayed as the horrific thing it is (can we retire Batman beating a tied-up Joker in Arkham for information and this not being presented as a vile thing to do. Please? For me?)

[arguablysomaya]

I posted 14,783 times in 2022

That's 333 more posts than 2021!

988 posts created (7%)

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Blogs I reblogged the most:

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I tagged 5,912 of my posts in 2022

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Longest Tag: 139 characters

#like the whole point of bruce taking in robins is because without him and his training + equiptment they'd still be out fighting crime just

My Top Posts in 2022:

#5

Damian: You are supposed to bang your fist against mine.

Cass: Why?

Damian: I am told it is a widely accepted gesture for mutual success.

Jason: I love it when you two impersonate normal people.

10,562 notes - Posted August 14, 2022

#4

Dick: Hello? Bruce, where on earth are you?

Bruce: (on the phone) I waved to a man because I thought he was waving at me. Apparently, he was waving to the guy behind me. So to get out of the awkward situation, I kept my hand up so a taxi pulled over and drove me to the port. I am now in Kazimierz , investigating a new case. I should be home by Thursday.

Dick: Wait, wha-

Tim: Understandable, have a nice day.

14,734 notes - Posted May 22, 2022

#3

i hate you endless quippage i hate you contrived dialogue i hate you "he's right behind me isn't he" i hate you undercutting emotional scenes with immature comedy i hate you media that is too insecure to take itself seriously i hate you disney i hate you joss whedon i hate you alienation of artist from artwork until the act of storytelling becomes an unfeeling assembly line

36,315 notes - Posted July 30, 2022

#2

are. are keyboard smashes a thing. on tumblr.

96,791 notes - Posted November 6, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

he gets it

122,914 notes - Posted February 2, 2022

Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →

[myshitnothingtoseehere]

Eu postei 157 vezes em 2022

19 posts criados (12%)

138 posts reblogados (88%)

Blogs que você mais reblogou:

@dizzydizney

@sparrowmoth

@callous-and-misunderstood

@bunny-lou

@telli1206

Eu marquei 29 posts meus em 2022

#jjk - 5 posts

#inumaki toge - 4 posts

#yuuta okkotsu - 4 posts

#jujutsu kaisen - 4 posts

#carlos de vil - 3 posts

#inuokko - 3 posts

#disney descendants - 3 posts

#maki zenin - 3 posts

#nobara kugisaki - 3 posts

#cassandra cain - 3 posts

Maior tag: 89 caracteres

#the sun and the star will come out and this is never going to happen but a girl can dream

Meus principais posts em 2022:

#5

61 notas - publicadas em 22 de julho de 2022

#4

I understand if you don’t like the ship Kaeluc from Genshin Impact, but to call it incest is just stupid

Especially if you like Patrochilles from The Song of Achilles or the Hades game. Two kids who grow up under the same roof (castle), childhood friends, brothers in arms (sworn brothers), lovers. Called cousins in the movie Troy (2004) lol

At some point you gotta listen to Chinese people about the Chinese game.

93 notas - publicadas em 24 de setembro de 2022

#3

Batfamily as Umbrella Academy characters au

Sir Reginald Hargreaves (The Monocle) - Bruce Wayne

But nicer, he actually cares for them

Dr Pogo/Grace- Alfred Pennyworth

Luther (Spacegirl) - Barbara Gordon

Barbara is critically injured and Bruce is forced to use a serum to save her life. Instead of the serum giving her an ape-like physiology, she cannot walk anymore. She now uses a wheelchair. Used to date Dick.

Ver o post inteiro

122 notas - publicadas em 23 de fevereiro de 2022

#2

Marauders teenage years/age appropriate/accurate fancast

Louis Partridge as Sirius Black

Cory Gruter-Andrew as Remus Lupin

Ver o post inteiro

205 notas - publicadas em 6 de março de 2022

Meu post nº 1 de 2022

I know the fandom is dead but Karmagisa Spy X Family AU would be so cute

Sakura Kiyashiki as Anya

Shiota Nagisa as Yor

Akabane Karma as Twilight

Ver o post inteiro

496 notas - publicadas em 12 de junho de 2022

Veja a sua Retrospectiva 2022 →

[artistic-lj]

Well. Time to formulate my thoughts into something more cohesive cause my initial reblog was more so done in fun, hence the all caps and over dramatic language, and I didn’t think it would be really interacted with.

And, to your credit, it technically wasn’t interacted with; it definitely was just a notification misfire, which is unfortunate and annoying because if I had realized that it was directed at the parent post and not specifically at me, I would have never created and posted the second reblog.

I made the reblog as a form of “defense” I guess, to what I had interpreted as a public reply to my post on your own page in the form of a reblog before blocking me. I missed that it said “reply” and when I went to check tumblr itself, the notification was just gone, which made it seem like you had called me specifically out and then blocked me so I wouldn’t have a chance to respond.

Which, would have been fair on your part regardless but it annoyed me and felt like you were shifting the narrative against me, especially when I tried to remain pretty neutral on the whole shipping discourse stuff, while still making my own opinion known cause I think it’s fun to have different interpretations of characters and cannon. For me, I almost always view the batfamily and batbrothers specifically AS a platonic family and I was annoyed that a lot of the top ships were with pairings that felt incestuous in the part of the fandom that I’m in.

With all of that out of the way, I guess it’s time to break down your other stuff. I’m gonna try to do it in sections cause that’s how my brain works and I tend to ramble:

Okay so, blocking people you’ve never interacted with: didn’t know that was a normal/common thing, so I’ve learned that today. I just thought it was weird because, due to the notification, I thought that you went out of your way to interact with me, I guess insult me (?) if being called a virtue signaler is insulting…? And also saying that ‘I’ (which I now realize was the collective of people you blocked) couldn’t “handle stats.”

And the reason I don’t view “virtue signaling” or being called a virtue signaler as an insult, is because, given its definitions:

(The one one the left is from Oxford dictionary, the one on the right is from Cambridge)

Virtue signaling to me just sounds like having and voicing an opinion. And, you don’t have to believe me, but given what I know about myself, I am not just saying these things to “sound good” or make other people look bad, I’m saying these things because I genuinely believe them.

I am genuinely uncomfortable by the fact that I have stumbled across so many ships that include either incest, minors, both, and/or adults/minors. And I don’t believe that that should be a weird opinion to hold, at least not the bit about minors/adults. I don’t really feel like it’s virtue signaling to say that I’m uncomfortable with and don’t like the shipping of a minor and an adult. I understand that forbidden romance and dark romance and whatever else exist and I understand that people will ship family members and stalkers with victims and so on and so forth.

But I guess if I ever met someone irl who shipped an adult with a child, I’d be curious to know more about them, what about the ship appeals to them, how those opinions translate into their real life beliefs on similar situations, etc. Because I know everyone is an individual and not everyone who ships something ships it all for the same reason. I’ve seen people ship incestuous and minor/adult pairings as a coping mechanism (I don’t exactly remember how, I think it was in the description because like I said, I do typically tend to just scroll past and go on about my day when I see a fix tagged with ships I don’t like. I’m not going to these fics and bothering the authors.), and I’ve seen people write with ship dynamics like those to explore the fantasy and kink of it all. I’d be more curious than anything because, in a weird way, I’m kind of fascinated by people and sometimes act like a five year old who responds to every answer with another “why?”

I’m not trying to say “look at me, I’m better than people that ship this” or that the people who do ship it are evil or wrong in some way to do so. And yes, I did start my initial reblog off with “This is so weird and wrong.” But I immediately followed it up with “not literally, ship whoever you wanna ship.” Yes I know it was offhanded and I guess a bit unintentionally condescending (?) I’m not sure, but that entire post was just an unfiltered rant with sprinkles of “I recognize that a lot of this is me-specific because not everyone views the batfamily as an actual family most of the time.”

Anyway, that was a long section but I ended up covering other topics so oh well.

On “not actually voicing things to the void,” yes I understand that that is how tumblr and the internet works. I understand that the OP will get a notification when I reblog something. However, I essentially never expect a response from anyone other than OP because after that initial notification to them, posts essentially are being placed into the void of tumblr’s ecosystem. I know people can stumble across posts but I had never had what I thought to be such an annoyed response directed directly at me and ‘my’ post so quickly after I had posted it. I understand that reblogging of something doesn’t make it mine, but I really didn’t feel like getting needing to clarify myself in a response that I thought you would never see, considering you had vocalized that you were blocking me.

And no, I don’t feel bad for having reblogged those Slade/Jason art posts and mentioned that I don’t ship it in my reblog. Because when someone posts something on the internet, they are going to get feedback. And my feedback was “wow this art or post or whatever else this reblog is of, is so good that I am really enjoying it despite being neutral to or not shipping the pairing within it.” That’s not a weird or mean thing to say. As an artist with an art account on instagram, I get notifications and comments with similar sentiments all the time and I either ignore it or enjoy it, depending on the tone of the comment.

I didn’t feel bad for the OP of the Jason fic stats post with my initial reblog because I was voicing my opinion in one succinct post, I knew they’d get one notification for it, either ignore it or block me or whatever, and go on with their day. At this point, I am feeling bad for them because I really was not trying to fill their notifications and reblog feed with shipping discourse. I just wanted to voice my silly little opinions on the batbrothers onto the hellsite.

So after this reblog, feel free to respond with another public reblog yourself cause I don’t want you to feel like I’m going “no I get the last word” or something like that, but after that, if you would like to continue this discussion further, please dm me instead because I won’t be adding to this thread. And honestly, besides certain snarky parts of your response which feel a bit condescending and jabby towards me, I do genuinely find this conversation/back and forth interesting and fun and wouldn’t mind continuing it privately.

On my statements of “I never said it was wrong to ship them” and “this is so weird and wrong” coexisting: once again, this would be due to me not thinking this post would reach any further than the OP and maybe a couple people going into the reblogs and bothering to read them and just vocalizing my opinion in a fast and fun brainrotty way. But, to clarify: I thought it was “weird and wrong” (hyperbolically, once again) that the top ships for Jason were people that me and my side of the fandom consider close family members and I don’t prefer incestuous ships or minor/adult pairings. I don’t think that the people writing these fics, OR the people reading them are weird or wrong.

On the moral judgement thing: I guess I am??? Like… yes?? I do find it weird when people ship minors and adults…? And I don’t need to justify feeling that way, just like the people who do ship those pairings don’t need to justify themselves to me either. And even in these examples you’re giving, I’m still not even being confident in my judgements. Like, your first example of me saying “I believe there probably shouldn’t be shipping between adults/minors or incestuous ships…”

I made myself the focus and I still was not making my statement absolute. I personally think that there probably shouldn’t be shipping between adults and minors just because I don’t really understand the appeal or what’s to be explored or gained through that when viewing it as something that’s not inherently negative, especially on the minor characters involved. And, once again, I recognize that characters aren’t real and that there are no real children being hurt here. But the concept of writing something with minors/adults or between siblings specifically, especially having grown up with three younger brothers, with no deeper thought on the moral, societal, or emotional impacts of that is just not something I understand or ever will. Which, once again, is not a judgement, simply a statement of fact. I will never understand why people do certain things and that is okay. And I recognize that it’s not on people to explain why they ship something, I just find the concept interesting.

The rest of my statements in your bulleted list are either over exaggerations/hyperbolic (because I was/am passionate about these characters and wanted to share my opinion to who I assumed would be no one besides op and whoever looked in the reblogs) or just my own opinions once again.

“I hope to god,” yeah, I did. Because I personally genuinely do not understand the appeal of pairing a 14 year old and 23 year old together. But I don’t even care at this point. I don’t even understand how I really got into this situation and how my silly text post caused someone to call me a virtue signaler who is passing moral judgement on people for shipping children and adults. Like… I mean… yes, I guess I am? But more so I was just disappointed that somehow multiple pairings of canonically a child and canonically an adult are at the top. That doesn’t mean I think the people who write the fics are immoral or gross, it just means that I personally hope that those fics either aged up the minor or aged down the adult because the concept of an adult/child pairing is uncomfortable for me. Not that the people who are doing it are immoral.

On your clarifications on why I’m a virtue signaler and what virtue signaling means: I didn’t ‘need’ to get my opinions out or let the world know that I, artistic-Lj, could NEVVVEERRR ever in a million billion bajillion years ship such horrid things, oh deary me. I wanted to voice my opinions on this public hellsite that’s fun to scream into the void on. Yes I know OP can see it and yes I know people look at reblogs. But when I reblogged the post, it hadn’t gotten as big as it is now, and I didn’t see it getting much bigger. But also… I’m allowed to just want to voice my opinions and not be called a virtue signaler?? Like… god forbid I say “I don’t like X thing” publicly. I think OP, who was just posting stats and never stated any personal opinions either way, will be okay with someone vocalizing their opinion in response to their post.

Saying “it costs zero” has always been such a nothing statement to me, to be completely honest. Because if we’re going down that route, it also costs zero for you to not have commented publicly about all the people you were using the post to block and how silly, dull and boring they are for disliking the ships. It costs zero to keep me blocked instead of unblocking me just to respond to my reblog that I, once again, didn’t think you’d see because, to my knowledge at the time, you had publicly announced you would block me before promptly doing so.

Anyway

Once again, yes, I am allowed to post publicly and deal with the consequences of doing so and how people react. In that same line of thought, I was allowed to react to what I thought was a public post directed at me before being blocked. I don’t need to express my opinions in private because people are allowed to have opinions, even if you disagree with them.

Which I guess is why I never understood shipping discourse in the first place because I understand that people will ship things that I dislike and I will ship things that they dislike and so on. But I’m not blocking people who disagree with me or thinking of myself as morally superior or calling people assholes or judgmental for expressing an opinion. Human beings have opinions. We aren’t non-thinking robots. I have opinions that I’m allowed to vocalize publicly online, as do you.

The term virtue signaler, to ME PERSONALLY, almost feels like a straw man argument(?) or maybe a red herring fallacy(??) because it essentially is taking someone’s opinion and saying “not only does this person hold this opinion, but they also believe they are morally superior for holding it!” Which just… is impossible to prove because you can’t be inside my mind anymore than I can be inside of yours??

Like… at the end of the day, you are blocking people who upset you because they are vocalizing opinions that you do not like or agree with. Which is fine. But you also are calling these people judgmental and virtue signalers because their opinions do not align with your own, which feels a bit like twisting the meaning of the phrase to me.

I don’t even know anymore, this all just started as me sharing my opinions on the top ships for Jason Todd on Ao3 and became way more (and yes I know it became more because of me and my second reblog, just clarifying because I really don’t want to have to clarify what everything I say means a second time)

Anyway, once again, I love you, tumblr, you little phenomenal hellsite where I can write all this shit because I care about my weird lil guys dressed in traffic light colors nexts to a man dressed in all black <3

TOP 10 Jason Todd "Red Hood"

1.-Jason Todd/Dick Grayson (8699) 2.-Jason Todd/Tim Drake (7011) 3.-Jason Todd/Roy Harper (3179) 4.-Jason Todd/Bruce Wayne (2147) 5.-Jason Todd/Slade Wilson (1114) 6.-Jason Todd/Damian Wayne (861) 7.-Jason Todd/Marinette Dupain-Cheng (837) 8.-Jason Todd/Stephanie Brown (565) 9.-Jason Todd/Kyle Rayner (440) 10.-Jason Todd/Roman Sionis (407)

This list doesn't include fanfics tagged with Jason Todd/Reader.

Please don't comment hate messages, this post is purely informative. I don't want my notifications to be filled with ship wars/hate or mean in general :/

[redjaybathood]

but also there's something about reblogging a post or answering an ask where there are words like "batcest is horrible" that leaves a funny aftertaste

like. i know people mostly are here for my reblog queue of great batfam (but mostly jason) art and meta, and sometimes for my rants about jason in comics, tv and fandom, so it's totally understandable if you don't know this one thing about me

but i also write fics and like 10% of it is brujay, which is also the most frequent pairing i use (most of what i write is gen)

i have some thoughts about fictional incest, batcest, adopted families, batfamily, fandom, exploration of kinks and squicks in fanworks and fiction, antis, and interaction with comics writers in general, which no one wants to know (and i know it because nobody asked me about this so i am going to keep it to myself) but it all boils down to one simple thing: don't be a fucking asshole. don't harass people over it.

[jonathan-cranes-mistress-of-fear]

Hey, sorry if this is a weird question. So you interact with the greater self ship community in tumblr? If not, how do you navigate interacting with the larger fandom? Is the Batman fandom kind to self shippers, do you block a lot of people? Other fandom are super harsh and mean about self ship, so I was curious! I self ship with Riddler and Scarecrow, and if it's a fine fandom to interact with through that lens, I'd like to!

Not weird at all, let's see if I can help!

Actually though, I don't interact with the big self-ship community on tumblr much, UNLESS it's reblogging a positivity post about it. I 'm not in any discords for self shipping or anything. I kinda just do my own thing with a few select friends who understand or who also self ship. Honestly, I high key recommend befriend or finding someone who also self ships, and talking with them (like me for example)

Even if you and someone else self ship the same character, people in these circles can be really chill and accepting. Plus this make it SUPER FUN to make content for each other like art and headcanons!!

And as for the batman fandom, I believe we're really accepting of self shippers, especially the batfamily side. The rogues side is too, I just don't see it as often. I rarely, if ever have gotten hate for self shipping, and when I did that was over six years ago and back then I was probably obnoxious about it lmao but I'm much chiller now.

and yes, please interact with us fandom people! We will accept you (or I will at the very least) with open arms!! There is a LOT of reader insert creators, including myself, in he fandom for both Riddler and Scarecrow, so keep an eye out for that!

[butterfly-skinnylegend]

I posted 358 times in 2021

7 posts created (2%)

351 posts reblogged (98%)

For every post I created, I reblogged 50.1 posts.

I added 35 tags in 2021

#incorrect batfamily quotes - 4 posts

#batfam social media - 4 posts

#batman - 4 posts

#batboys - 4 posts

#bruce wayne - 4 posts

#batfam - 4 posts

#red robin - 3 posts

#damien wayne - 3 posts

#israel - 3 posts

#lgbtq rights - 2 posts

Longest Tag: 38 characters

#she got me like 🥺🥺💕💓💟💗💘❣❣💔💝❣❣

My Top Posts in 2021

#5

All of you people who post about free Palestine don't understand that israel gave them freedom 15 years ago, with the Disengagement Plan, and since then Terror organisations took turns on who rules the Gaza strip and played a little game called 'let's start a war with israel, even though they did nothing'.

You have to understand that if Hamas would put their weapons down, we would have peace, But if Israel would put their weapons down, their would be no Israel.

27 notes • Posted 2021-05-20 08:38:28 GMT

#4

Batboys, arguing about who's the best robin: I'm the best! No, I'm the best!

Bruce: what are you doing?

Batmom, lying on the couch with popcorn in her hands: I'm bored and they are competitive

Bruce: nice

Batmom: yeah

184 notes • Posted 2021-11-15 07:19:35 GMT

#3

Bruce: *walks in* what are you doing?

Tim, taking a buzzfeed quiz to what kind of unicorn is his zodiac sign: ... porn

192 notes • Posted 2021-11-15 07:20:24 GMT

#2

Damien: hey hey, could you get me a knife?

Jason: what did bruce said?

Damien: no

Jason: when why are you asking me?

Damien: because he's not the boss of you

Jason: *internally* this is a trap

Damien: so?

Jason: ...

Damien: ...

Jason: ...fuck it and fuck you bruce *throw a knife*

Jason: Eat the fucking rich demon

506 notes • Posted 2021-02-21 12:18:52 GMT

#1

THE BATBOYS DEALING WITH THEIR PROBLEMS

Dick: *Doing a flip and biellmann spin in the air, landing perfectly*

Jason: *shoot his problem*

Tim: *Trying to parkour over his problems*

Also Tim: *crashing and breaking his spine because of lack of sleep*

Damien: I don't want to do it... Alfred, do it

Alfred, Done with the keeping up with the Waynes shit: well, I'm sorry master Damien but I have to insist

633 notes • Posted 2021-06-04 15:26:22 GMT

Get your Tumblr 2021 Year in Review →

[discowingneckline]

Jason's attack on Tim wasn't really about Bruce and the superhero community nearly as much as it was about Jason thinking Tim had a very privileged life pre-Robin and being perceived as doing better than him as Robin. When Jason was beating Tim, it was to show Tim that he could beat him in a fight and have him at his mercy just as he was to Joker's. Not to mention that it was very much premeditated and like it was overall just extremely cruel and brutal. Jason is also an adult doing this shit versus Damian who is a minor (and yeah, minors can still do horrible things and should be punished for it, but people often forget that Damian literally came from an environment that devalued human life, placed heavy emphasis on blood relations, etc. and this goes into a whole other discussion about the culture shock Damian went through and the Batfam's lack of understanding or help in that regard, but i'll hold myself back from this because omg it's getting long) And that, along with all the other shit Jason did to not only the Bats but to some Arrows as well just like? It's in my opinion a lot worse since Jason is old enough to know better, and he wasn't doing such horrific things before he died. Like the shit he did to Mia?? To Dick?? His whole revenge and Gotham-takeover plan heavily relied on just treating so many people like shit, killing tons of people, and jfsaidfjdas. Basically, Jason decided that because Bruce didn't grieve the way he wanted, he was going to fuck up some shit.

Also, I would say that Jason wanting to really hurt/kill Tim for replacing him is really just a different font of Damian wanting to kill Tim to assert his place in the family. Like fundamentally, in that understanding of what happened, Damian is trying to kill Tim for taking his rightful spot in Bruce's life, and he would see that as replacing him.

That being said, the main reason this was really even made as a post in the first place is because frankly fanon tends to be very racist towards Damian (and other batfamily members, but this post isn't about them). It's incredibly rare for me to find a fic that actually treats this whole situation with even a bit of nuance and comic accuracy. Instead, Damian is often characterized in a flanderization of his actual character with a near complete inability to change. It again ignores the culture shock Damian would've been going through, the fact that he literally came from an ecoterrorist group, and all sorts of other things that isn't just as plain and simple as "Damian hated Tim for being Robin because he wanted that position in the family".

I'd also raise the point that, from what I've seen, people who follow this sort of thing where Tim is completely (or almost completely fine) with Jason but is super distant from Tim tend to also follow the fanon idea that Dick gave Robin to Damian when it wasn't him, it was Bruce. But jajfifjda yeah. I also can't remember a good chunk of the panels and issues that people say was Damian trying to kill Tim at the top of my head, but it's just?? Frustrating to say the least. And a lot of this again just stemmed from my absolute disgust with fanon Tim Drake and Robin at the expense of POC Batfamily members.

Sorry if this is a mess to get through, both my friends irl and my cat are trying very hard to get my attention. There was more thoughts I had too, and if I remember them, I'll reblog again with them, but yeah. I can definitely see where you were coming from though, but it's definitely the same sort of thing that I've heard people who like infantilize Tim say and I just?? Meh

“tim drake is rightfully annoyed and mean to damian because damian tried to kill him several times”

tim can be upset about it and not want to be nice or near him, yes, but have you considered tim ALSO wouldn’t want to be around jason?? noo because you changed tim’s favorite robin to being jason to fit your little world, and they got along in newer comics and stuff. well homie, have you actually LOOKED at the comics where damian and jason try killing tim?? because i’m telling you right now, jason’s attack was FAR MORE SEVERE than damian’s. and personally, if i were a vigilante, and i were almost murdered by these two, i’d be more wary of jason, who beat the living shit out of me, over damian.

like honest to gods, it’s like can you please read comics just a bit or look at some panels or something??? 😭😭 PLEASE

[ragingbookdragon]

hi!!! i just wanted to let you know that i really like your writing and it’s sort of the reason why i want to make a blog and post some of the stuff i’ve written. but how do you even get people to read/interact with your posts? like, do you have any tips? thank you for all you do!!!

-dum anon

I have many tips! Which are below because you need to learn immediately how to use the "Keep Reading" insert link. People don't like scrolling through six pages of writing. It's very annoying and time consuming. My general rule is that if your fic is between 1-500 words, you're okay. If it goes over, insert a "Keep Reading" link.

Number 1: Make sure you tag your works properly. If it's fanfiction, tag that MF with all the tags you know other fics do. Tagging is how things circulate and are seen on this sight. If you want people to see it, you've gotta tag it where it'll show up in their recommendations or when they search the tag on their own. Take my Batsis fanfics for example. I tag: batsis x batfamily, batsis x batfamily imagines, batsis x batfamily imagine, batsis imagines, batsis imagine, batsis, batfamily x batsis, batfamily x batsis imagines, batfamily x batsis imagine, batfamily imagines, batfamily imagine, batfamily x reader, batfamily x reader imagines, batfamily x reader imagine, batfamily, dc comics, dc imagines, dc imagine, dc. I tag all of that so people are going to see it if they search any of those tags. You want to tag everything, so they see those fics.

Number 2: Don't be discouraged when the Like to Reblog ratio is disproportionate. It's well known that a lot of people merely like things and move on instead of reblogging too, but you do get those followers who are constant rebloggers of your works as much as they like them (we see you babes and we love you!)

Number 3: Always look for ways to improve your writing. Go to websites, read documents, read other people's fics, read books, the best way to improve is to read. To be a great writer you must read and understand the flow of writing.

Number 4: People like reading fics that have decent grammar, punctuation, and paragraphing. If your stories are one giant paragraph, no one is going to give it a second thought. Learn to paragraph correctly! If you don't have correct punctuation or grammar, no one is going to bother reading it because we'll sit there and critique more than we would read and enjoy. As picky as we are, the best way to achieve readers is to make sure you're satisfying your reader with good formatting.

Number 5: Be prepared to not get noticed for some time, especially if it's a big fandom. It takes time to build up followers and readers, even if your works are golden. Smaller fandoms have an easier time because people are constantly looking for new material to read and enjoy because of how small the fandom is. Don't get discouraged when you don't immediately get the amount of likes and reblogs you're looking for and wanting. Things take a lot of time.

Number 6: Don't bow down to anyone's whims when they try to tell you what you should and shouldn't do. Your writing is yours and what you want to write and when you want to write is your decision and your decision only. If you don't feel comfortable doing something, say you're not and let it pass. Do what you enjoy and what brings you joy. Because to be honest, fic writers don't write for fans, we mostly write for ourselves because we want to see that fic in creation.

But most importantly, have fun in your writing. If you're not having fun or enjoying it, try something new. Take a break, come back later when the mood is different. Only you can decide to create!

-Thorne

[comic-book-fan-us]

So @rootbeergoddess decided to reply to my reblog and apparently block me from responding, because they’re a coward.  And I’m not surprised, because this argument is terrible.

First of all, Cassandra IS disabled.  A disability is a physical, mental, cognitive, or developmental condition that impairs, interferes with, or limits a person's ability to engage in certain tasks or actions or participate in typical daily activities and interactions.

You know, like speaking, which Cass couldn’t do until she was a teenager.

And reading, which Cass is shown struggling with.

While Cass has never been given a specific diagnosis, she DOES clearly have a language-based learning disability of some sort.  In fact, in an early issue of her book, a telepath reads her mind and realizes that her brain is “wired differently” than neurotypicals’.

So yes, she is disabled.  To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

And the problem with her portrayal in the movie is that she clearly DOESN’T have those disabilities.  She can speak and understand English fluently, so a sequel would have to flat out retcon BoP in order to portray her disabilities.  Besides, if Yan couldn't be bothered to portray her disabilities in the first film, why should I assume she’ll suddenly give a damn the second time around?

Second, the argument for Comic!Cass being racist appears to be based largely on the fact that she was created by white writers, which is just bizarre.  So, is the Black Canary shown in BoP racist against black people?  I mean, Cathy Yan isn’t black, so wouldn’t that make her racist for using a black character?  Are all gay characters written by straight people homophobic?  Are all trans characters written by cis people transphobic?  Are all Jewish characters written by atheists antisemetic?  If Cass were invented in the Gold or Silver Age, there might be a leg to stand on, but she wasn’t.

Third, the original post I responded to argued that Cass was a “silent warrior” stereotype, which is wrong.  As shown above, Cass was never depicted as “silent” -- she has a mental handicap that makes it difficult for her to communicate verbally, but she CAN speak.  And as for the “warrior” aspect, Cass is a Batman character.  OF COURSE SHE CAN FIGHT!  EVERYONE IN THE BATFAMILY CAN FIGHT, REGARDLESS OF RACE!  An Asian martial artist is not racist in a series where everyone knows martial arts!

Third, and most importantly, rootbeer is using claims of racism to avoid the actual problem: ableism.  Cathy Yan is NOT disabled, so why does she get to decide that Cass’s disabilities don’t matter?  Because she’s Asian?  That has nothing to do with her disabilities!  The only way that argument makes sense is if being Asian is the only significant part of Cassandra’s character, which is obviously not true.

[phis-corner]

random question (its about the jon kent art you reblogged)...who/what exactly is bendis??? im more versed in the batfamily and only really know on a surface level of superfamily members, would you mind explaining that to me? or giving me a link to read about them on? thank you!!

sorry this took a bit to answer - I was in the middle of a practice session (circular breathing is hard)

but anyways, Brian Michael Bendis is a comic book writer. (Here’s his Wikipedia page!) He helped create Miles Morales, which is awesome, but his DC work is, well, not great (in my opinion). 

see, the thing is, Bendis was the one responsible for aging up Jon Kent. He changed Jon from a 10 year old kid to 17 years old in the span of three weeks - aka Jon ages seven-ish years while everyone else ages 21-ish days due to a bunch of comic book science that just borders on not making any sense, but hey, Cyborg used a Motherbox to hack the freaking multiverse once so it’s not the wackiest thing that’s happened.

and he did it all so he could put Jon in the Legion of Superheroes since he is now a young adult instead of a ten-year-old kid and can therefore now be trusted with his own decisions. I mean, I understand that he probably wanted to recreate the original entrance of the Legion but with Jon instead of Clark,,, but why. he ruined a perfectly good childhood and is it too much to ask to let the sunshine child actually be a sunshine child for once? (here’s a pretty helpful article that looks into that whole Legion of Superheroes thing a bit!)

besides, he’s gotten quite a bit of flak from the fans for it. I remember a twitter discourse (cannot find the tweets or the tumblr post I saw it on, sorry!) where someone said something along the lines of “why can’t he just be a normal fourth grader and do normal things like chores”, etc etc. and Bendis’ response was something like “[insert some bullshit about Legion of Superheroes here] and you can always do the chores here if you like them so much!”

which, what. it’s not like the entire comic book industry is centered around what the fans like or anything, right? Jason Todd only died because they held a poll for whether or not he should die and 72 more people voted for him to die so he died.

in conclusion: I do not like Brian Michael Bendis and Miles Morales’ creation is the only reason why I do not actively hate on him every single moment of my life.

[necrotic-nephilim]

reblogging bc there are so many *fantastic* points added here and things i want to riff off of just because you brought up so many fantastic things in this whole discussion i want to ramble about in no particular order

i am *absolutely* with you on the "canon!Helena is fanon!Jason" posts. i'm a huge Helena Bertinelli fan, i'd go so far as to say she might be my favorite character of all time and i care about knowing everything there is to know about her. like i'm a Batfamily fan, but i'm *really* a Huntress fan. and while i think the lighthearted jokes about how women in the Batfamily get ignored for the men, as you said because of the misogyny in Migratory Slash Fandom, and how you can draw similarities to Jason and Helena, i think it's such a *wild* disservice to Helena to call her fanon!Jason. and frankly, what fans like about fanon!Jason (his relationship with Bruce, his trauma, how he reacts to it, his childhood as Robin) are *not* things you'll find in any Huntress comic. besides some surface parallels you can draw about "elder Batfam kid who's got a weird complex about Bruce and is pro-murder", she exists on her own.

then again, as you said, i see people wanting fanfic for things that exist in canon comics. i have seen headcanons where "Jason is Catholic and becomes an English teacher and protects women and children and adopts a kid and totally tells Bruce off while still being close to Tim/Dick/etc" and my impulse thought is. a little pained that these people haven't heard of Huntress, when she canonically is all of the things people headcanon Jason as, particularly the headcanons that make little sense for him. that said, i don't think you're going to convince any fan, Jason stan or not, to read a Huntress comic by dragging him down. it feels sort of reactionary? like people are course-correcting *too much* to fix the racism and misogyny in fandom by boosting up the women and characters of color, but still only doing it through the lense of comparing them to the popular cishet white (or whitewashed, in the case of Damian and Dick) male characters. which, if the only way you feel you can convince people to read about women or poc in comics is by comparing them to men, i don't think you're making the point you think you are about them. because frankly i think creating so much fan content about Helena surround Jason defeats the point of her existing on her own. and it's not like these fans are purposefully stealing traits from Helena to make Jason cooler in their head, most of them don't know she exists. so shoving her in their faces both makes it harder to find genuine content about Helena, and makes Jason fans reactionary toward the mention of her.

which is frustrating, when fanon-only fans start trying to include the women and characters of colors they flat out don't understand, for fear they'll look bigoted if left out. but because they don't understand these characters whatsoever, we end up with popular headcanons that make *no* concept of sense. see specifically: the idea of Duke being "the normal one" because fanon-only fans don't really know what to *do* with him. they know he exists but they don't seem to want to learn about him outside of that, they just want the brownie points for including him. the same extends to Cass, for me the painful fanon is with her using ASL to communicate which makes *zero* sense for her disability and is a headcanon that at best is cute but misguided, and at worst views all Deaf/mute disabilities as interchangeable and easily "fixable" by ASL. (this one may be a tad personal to me as a Deaf fan lol, but this post really gets into the nuances of it) like honestly: i'd far rather fanon-only spaces just flat out go back to leaving these characters out because at least then, they were honest about not knowing or caring about them. whereas now you only get this half-hearted, shallow "the only content for this character is posts that mass tag every single Batfamily member mentioned even once" inclusion for the brownie points.

i think your point about fanon changing is *fascinating* because it's something i've noticed so heavily. i got into the Batfamily in my early teens, dropped off for a bit when the MCU and Winter Soldier comics became my primary special interest, and then as an adult when i came back into the space i was *baffled* by how things had changed. because i actually *do* remember a time when the fanon Jason Todd was a sexist horndog who was so mean to poor Timmy but also his protector. i remember when you couldn't *escape* where every interaction Jason had with Damian in headcanons, incorrect quotes, or fanfic culminated in a "well I fucked your mom" joke. (which, was so *weird* in the first place but i'm begging people to let go because even Winick, the guy who wrote that comic, agrees it shouldn't have happened and it was weird.) i distinctly remember everyone agreeing Jason was the mean, violent Robin who got himself killed with his own recklessness (which tbf, some canon DC content still agrees with this, Death in the Family was frankly a messy comic in hindsight and if not for its cultural significance, i firmly believe would be regarded as poorly written) and was a big mean asshole as Red Hood. and like, to be honest if you went off of RHATO (2011), yeah, i'd see why Jason being a weird sexist freak sort of became a thing. but now we've done this complete 180 and it feels like people are course correcting too hard. now, it's all "Jason was a sunshine boy as Robin, look at this out of context panel where he says being Robin gave him magic, and as Red Hood he's a sad depressed traumatized boy protecting women and children, who's mistreated by everyone" which feels just as incorrect. Jason's Robin years were a shitshow of inconsistent writing (imo the only good story of Robin!Jason is Batman: the Cult) that's hard to parse anything out of, but to act like Jason was this ball of sunshine ignores his most important arcs as Robin. (how he reacts to believing Two-Face killed his father, how he reacts during the infamous Felipe incident, so on) i recently had a *very* long argument with someone in a TikTok comment section because they refused to believe Jason was a villain and kept insisting he wasn't, even when i was directly quoting the *writers of his comics* at them (comics this person admitted they hadn't read) simply because they were so attached to Jason being this misunderstood antihero.

and the same has happened to Tim too. Tim has always been all over the place in fanon, but like you pointed out, there's this spike in a *ridiculously* cartoonishly evil portrayal of the Drakes for the sake of projection onto Tim. at their worst you could say the Drakes were possibly neglectful out of sheer cluelessness rather than malice. but to act as though they never even hug or look at him and he's a poor boy who had to raise himself is so wild. it's a complicated headcanon for me because there are certainly versions of the "Tim's parents were kind of shitty" headcanon i enjoy (and i'm not ashamed to say that's entirely projection) but it's become so ridiculous you can't find content where his parents genuinely care. or worse, you end up in arguments with people about whether or not his parents were neglectful, and their sources are shaky at best. Tim has suffered the most from the blorbofication of fanon, specifically how fanon likes to take a character and give them an "oh everyone has been mean and awful to you and lookit how terrible they treated you except this One Character who Understands You and yells at everyone for mistreating you and is now your Protector". and, i understand the projection fantasy of that, this idea of someone suddenly noticing how mistreated you are and using Tim as a slate for that. usually it's Jason who's the savior of Tim, or any other character you can slash him with, like Kon. so you have to create fanon like "Dick tried to send Tim to Arkham" or take canon moments like "Damian cut Tim's line as a murder attempt" (nevermind the genuine justification Damian had for his anger, as well as the fact this wasn't even a real murder attempt and Tim wasn't hurt or bothered by it beyond a "what the hell???" moment) just to strip Tim of people who care about him to stick him in that unrealistic scenario.

honestly, not to sidebar too long but as a lover of Red Robin (2009) it's one of my biggest gripes about how people misunderstand that comic. the point of that arc for Tim is not "look at how awful everyone treats him and no one believes him so he has to work alone and be this uber badass who's so isolated and misunderstood bc everyone is just so awful to him". the *point* is "look at Tim who is purposefully self-isolating because of his grief and consistently pushing away his loved ones trying to reach out because Tim's worst fear as a character is becoming like Bruce, hyper-paranoid and driving everyone away and that is what he is actively doing in this arc and his turning point is being willing to accept help and verbatim saying 'i'm not like Batman, i have friends' because he breaks the cycle of self harm that Bruce can't". it's so *frustrating* to me, the recent fascination with taking this comic so out of context for fanon, because the whole *point* is Tim is his worst enemy. not how supposedly awful characters like Dick are for... saying Tim might need therapy or for telling him he's ready to move on from being Robin because he's grown past the role. but instead of delving into Tim's actual arc during this run, people tout around a few panels of it so they can force him into the fanon arc they *want* him to have. which isn't really an arc at all, it's just a stereotype of a character that Tim isn't to begin with.

and then the fanon shift has also badly clocked Bruce- we went from at least managing to agree he was sort of the worst as a dad to now if Bruce is a bad dad in the comics that's OOC and terrible and awful and why do you want Bruce to be mean to his kids. the meme you shared from 2014 feels so funny in hindsight a decade later with how Bruce is the one fanon has flipped the hardest on. and my personal theory on why that change has been so vicious is because initially, Batfanon was a victim of Migratory Slash Fandom, people moving in on these characters because they were pretty boys who you could ship together, to it now being a victim of... i guess for lack of any other name, Migratory Found Family Fandom. there's this real want in fandom nowadays for found family to come first and to be highlighted on. it's becoming a marketing term at this point, and i regularly see people say they got into the Batfamily because they wanted a cutesy found family. (i also blame this for the rise in antis in the Batfamily fandom as of recent- if people are here for the found family and these sibling bonds they've constructed in their heads, they react with hostility to headcanons/ships that disagree with that, like batcest) so if you want a cute found family, you have to convince yourself Bruce is a good dad all the time and actively push against any content that says otherwise, even canon content.

and oh my *god*, the Titans Tower Incident and all its AUs. dare i say, my most controversial opinion in the Batfamily fandom is this: i don't think that comic is actually that OOC for Jason. he's over the top and garish about it, but really, when *isn't* Jason being dramatic during this era. if you compare it to Jason's actions during this era, specifically how he reacts to other teen sidekicks (see the whole kidnapping Mia Dearden and blowing up her school in a Green Arrow arc) it really isn't out of form for him. the only part of it that feels cringey is him well, wearing that ridiculous Robin suit. but i think that existed for meta reasons of reminding readers who Jason Todd was. (if you're only a Teen Titans reader and not keeping up with the Batman run, Jason's revival is still fresh enough that you may need to be reminded who the hell he even *is*. we all forget that during that era of comics Jason wasn't known how he is now. i was speaking to a relative who used to read comics decades ago about the Batfamily and passingly mentioned Jason and he was blown away Jason was revived and didn't know at all Jason was alive. i had that conversation only a year ago. putting Jason in the Robin suit wasn't because he's a dramatic rat, it was to show readers who he was in the first place so i defend the choice, personally.) when you actually look at Jason's actions, he's *not* trying to kill Tim. he's testing Tim and making a point about how easy it is for anyone to just break into Titans Tower and target a defenseless teen sidekick- because one of Jason's main beliefs at this point was there shouldn't *be* teen sidekicks. his death should've been a wake up call to the hero community. and by the end of it, he has an honest respect for Tim, there's no real hatred on Jason's side for Tim as a person, he just hates the idea the Robin mantle didn't end with his death. and as for Tim. Tim is really... nonplussed by the whole thing. he's mocking Jason the whole time, even as he's getting beaten and it clearly holds no lasting effects on him other than giving him a distaste for someone he didn't like in the first place. but all these AUs from fanon-only fans who only understand the incident as "omg Jason went to Titans Tower and beat Tim up for no reason" make just... painful fanfiction out of it. which sucks because i'd love exploration of that moment that *actually* considers Jason's canon motivations and feelings, as well as Tim's canon reactions and feelings in fanfiction, shipping or not. but instead everything is about how Tim was so battered and defenseless and Jason was a horrible person. or, if the fanon is trying to be transgressive, it's Jason for some reason deciding to take Tim in after this moment and deciding to be Tim's savior. because once again, that seems to be the only way Tim and Jason can exist in fanon. Jason is big and mean to Tim until he Sees The Light and saves Tim from the cruel world because he's the only one who sees Tim for how he is.

and of course, the "Justice League meets the Batfamily" thing. besides what i already said -how it uproots characters of important relationships for silly crack- i think the weirdest part to me is it forces every character to be a Batman clone. they must be this weird cryptid crawling around Gotham who never leaves the city and never makes friends. and worse, it gives Bruce a *freakish* level of control over them. like i always read these fics (bc i swear, i've given them the college try.) and my lingering thought is "this is supposed to be silly fluff/crack but somehow it's created a deeply insidious implication about the Batfamily) because you're telling me every single member of the Batfamily, with their own agency, their own views on what being a hero should be, their own goals, has whole-heartedly nodded and agreed to Bruce's loner ideologies? they're fine with Bruce playing ball in the big Leagues while they all sit and only exist at his beck and call in Gotham? that's so fucking *weird* to me. (and granted: the only way i think i could get behind this AU is if you went just balls to the walls with how fucked up that is and making it weird and dark and abusive. now if someone wrote that. that i would fucking devour.) at that point they're not characters with agency, they're just Bruce's little minions. which is *weird*, given the fact half of them don't like Bruce on any given day, and the other half definitely are *not* listening to his orders or wanting him to father them. like, if i can pretend for just a second that the League doesn't ever read the Gotham Gazette or look at the news in Gotham to notice there's definitely other heroes crawling around. if I can pretend for a moment Nightwing can totally exist without Superman knowing him even though Clark *gave him the name*. if i can suspend that disbelief. i *can't* suspend the disbelief that every one of these characters can remain in character, expressing their own agency, and yet never leave Gotham/never interact with the League. Bruce has to be holding a power over them to be forcing them to stay in Gotham which is both no fun and weird. which i think fanon consistently misunderstands about all of these characters. there's this belief everyone in the Batfamily has a loyalty to Bruce and will always defact to following his orders. as if most of them are not actively doing the opposite. because Bruce isn't really the patriarch of this "family". there is no patriarch. they just co-exist and build relationships and then fight about it.

of course, the point of that concept is that you're not supposed to think about it too hard. it exists because there's this fun to the fantasy of "omg the League has no idea the totally cool and badass Batfamily exists and could totally school them" in that projection sort of way. which is why i think it exists. it's the projection and the comedy potential of cardboard cut outs with the names of canon characters doing slapstick routines. which is what a lot of the Batfamily fanon is. no deep thoughts about the canon, just whatever silly ideas you can plaster onto it. this isn't unique to the Batfamily, it's really just a thing of how fandom works and always will work, but it feels particularly worse in a fandom driven by fanon. because like you said, comics can be difficult to read on just a simple craft level. i also don't actually love the medium as an art form, i regularly cannot tell what order shit is being said in. and some older comics are just. hard to read. they flat out are difficult to even understand. i love Huntress (1989) and Batman: the Cult on like. a story level. but as for actually enjoying how the comic read? ngl i was not having fun. but that's just the medium, take it or leave it. and some fans are going to leave it, hence voraciously consuming adaptation content, but not the comics.

funnily enough, i once actually saw a fan go on and on about how much they loved Jason and how they were an expert because they'd... memorized his fandom wiki. like that goes to show the lengths people will go to, to not read the medium. and i'm not saying that's a bad thing or you're not a real fan, but to say you're an expert from a wiki feels... presumptuous, is the kindest way i'll put it. but it exemplifies what is important to fanon. knowing the events that happened, but not their contexts and their emotional impacts. you can react about something in a wiki and decide to run with it, insisting your headcanon/fanfic is based on canon. canon moments don't exist to genuinely be interacted with, just used as malleable concepts you can shape into whatever best fits your fanon opinion.

and like you brought up, some fanon only fans will start to pick up comics and shape their interaction with canon through the lense of fanon. sure, if you stretch it hard enough, you can say the Drakes neglect Tim in canon. but that's clearly not the intent, and that interpretation exists on the predication of the fanon you already believed. and you can do that with any Batfamily character, all you have to do is sweep under the rug comics that don't fit your purview with the "well it's OOC" argument, or "that writer sucks though" argument. which just isn't how comics as a medium work, but even if that is true, an OOC comic can still be very important canon that you need to be willing to interact with at least a little bit to understand the character. (see: Battle for the Cowl) and i get why that can be so frustrating, to beginners. it feels easier and safer to fall back onto the simplicities of fanon where you don't have to critically think about it all. that's not a dig, there are times i don't want to critically think about my blorbos, i just want them to kiss. but if that was the only way i interacted with fandom, i personally don't think i'd be having a lot of fun. and like you said, it's weird we get interpreted as rude for politely suggesting people read comics. or worse, politely correcting people on misinformation about comics. the arguments i have had about comics simply because i wanted to politely correct someone and i was seen as a buzzkill fun hater. when the issue isn't with the fanon, it's with saying the fanon is canon. (not DC related, but i got into a heated argument because someone repeatedly claimed that Peter Parker was "only recently" an adult in comics and when they were corrected on no, he's been an adult since the 60s you just clearly don't read comics and that's okay just don't talk about what you don't know, they backtracked and claimed their issue was with fans portraying him as a minor in a specific ship. which, is a different conversation and not the one they started and made them point fingers at the people correcting them. it's exhausting and i've had the debate constantly.)

it's so weird how comic fans have been turned into the bad guys of a fandom *centered around comics*. assholes will be abound for any opinion camp, and sure i've met comic purists who made me roll my eyes a little bit because at a certain point, do you like fan content at *all*. but i've also run into fanon only fans who are very negative and rude about not reading comics but also defend their headcanons supposedly being canon compliant. it sort of feels like you can't win. a part of me dies when i see posts asking for fic recs for a specific Batfamily member so they can write that character well in their own fic. it's like watching the blind lead the blind. recently, a tiktoker, when a comment asked them honestly how to get into the Batfamily, said with their full chest to go straight to Ao3 first. and i can't help but wonder if some fans are so disconnected from the source material they don't even know how it exists. sure, comics are hard to get into, but like you said, there are approachable ways to do it. but because some fans are playing fic of theseus (i'm stealing that btw that's delightful) they've convinced themselves The Comics™ are this nebulous and unapproachable concept they never go near because it'll just never ever make sense. and it pains me a lot to witness that.

@sasheneskywalker i love when you enable me to ramble about things because oh my god do i have thoughts.

so recently, i made a post discussing the phenomena of DC x DP and DC x MLB crossovers and why they exist and part of that post was discussing how largely speaking, at least half, if not more of the Batfamily fandom doesn't read the comics. if they interact with canon DC material, it's adaptations that are their own sequestered universes and oftentimes not remotely comic accurate or seeking to be. the most obvious example is the Young Justice cartoon. i'm adding a cut to this post because it just got so long i'm so sorry.

a lot of times, when people are discussing the "why" of this oversaturation of fanon-only fandom, they blame Wayne Family Adventures. and i think, to a point, i agree WFA is responsible for a boom in this fandom. but as someone who's been in the fandom long before we had WFA, to me it's the other way around. WFA was DC's way of meeting the demand for this easy-to-get-into, easy-to-consume content about the Batfamily that predicates itself on the comics just enough to be vaguely the same characters, but has a more sitcom, slice-of-life sort of vibe so DC could profit off of this section of the fanbase that otherwise wasn't consuming its primary material. and well, it's definitely worked. not only that, but i have a weird theory that the decline in the MCU also led to the rise in the Batfamily fandom. when you consider the fan content that made the MCU popular within fandom, it's that 2012 "they all live in Avengers Tower and Thor is eating poptarts and Clint is in the vents and there are movie nights every Friday" sort of vibe. those were the fics that were a hallmark of the fandom. and as the MCU has strayed from well... quality content in general, but specifically well-thought-out crossover content where characters can have their own arcs but also exist in a wider story where they clearly care about each other, that fandom was sort of homeless. so where do you go, if you like a superhero found family where you can have villains for angst but also stick them all in one big family-like home for silly crack and have a plethora of options for gay ships? well. you go to the Batfamily. if you write a crack/fluff Batfamily genfic with silly vibes and low stakes instead of say, a fic about a very specific comic issue even if it's a popular comic, you're *going* to get more traction for the former. because the fanbase largely just isn't reading the comics.

and i feel... complicated about this. because on one hand, Don't Like Don't Read has been a tenet of my fandom experience. i'm very pro-fandom and that includes fandom content i don't like. and to an extent, i do think this sort of should apply to Batfamily fanon. i enjoy having my moments with other comic purists, giggling over exceptionally painful OOC headcanons or even facepalming in pain over some content but it is on me to not interact with that content. you don't make fandom a better place by being hostile to fans who engage with canon in ways you don't approve of. and frankly? we as comic readers are not going to get non-comic fans to read the comics by being asshats to them. no one is going to want to pick up any comic if we get a superiority complex about it. and also, i feel like we're all lying to ourselves a little bit insisting comics are so, so easy to get into. they're not. we can just all agree, they're really not. i've been single-handedly helping my sister get into comics, specifically Wonder Woman and no matter how simple i make it, i watch her get frustrated trying to understand what pre-Crisis and post-Crisis and New-52 and Flashpoint and all these things mean and what a retcon vs a reboot is and what a Crisis Event is and what the hell Diana's current backstory even *is*. sure, you can give someone a beginner list of comics to start with and slowly dip their toes in the water but sooner or later, *something* is going to confuse them. comics as a medium straight up aren't going to be everyone's cup of tea. and if someone *just* wants to read silly fluffy fanfiction about the Batfamily, i can't entirely begrudge them for not wanting to take the hours and hours out of their day to understand this medium. it's not an accessible medium to get into. "read this and this, but this run is out of print and this run wasn't collected in trades at all but also make sure you read that event in order and this is a good comic but the backstory in it is retconned and you *have* to read this it's so important but it's also really bad because the author kind of sucks" sounds. ridiculous for someone who like. just wants to read some stuff about Nightwing. sometimes, we all make reading comics sort of sound like a chore, not a hobby.

so my point is, i do extend some grace to Batfamily fanon for existing. i think my biggest gripe is, as i said in my other post, misuse of tags (if you're not creating content about comics, maybe you don't need the comics fandom tag on Ao3, just the all media types umbrella tag) and my far bigger gripe: when panels are taken out of context to support fanon only headcanons. if i could impart *anything* onto the Batfamily fandom as a comic fan it'd be this: if you haven't *read* the comic, don't spread the panel. if you don't even know what comic it's *from*, don't spread the panel. it's fine to use comic panels to discuss your headcanons, but so often i see someone spreading a comic panel from a comic they haven't read, and when asked where it's from, they can't source it. a silly example that comes to mind is a post going around, taking a panel where Dick, in his internal monologue goes "here comes the sun. do do do do." and the post is claiming it's from him getting buried alive. when that panel comes from Nightwing (1996) #140, and he gets buried alive in Nightwing (1996) #127, two completely different moments frankensteined together. if you're going to not read the comics, that's completely fine, but unless you're sure of the source and the context, panels shouldn't be spread around. i'm sick of this specifically happening to Red Robin (2009), with ppl claiming Tim has totally killed people because he blew up some of Ra's' bases, when those panels within context, make it clear he gave everyone time to escape. and in a later arc in that very comic, Tim grapples with the idea of murdering Captain Boomerang, and *specifically chooses not to*, because he doesn't agree with murder, even against the person who has hurt him the most. if you'd like to write fanfiction where Tim is pro-murder and has done some sketch things, i'm totally on board and would probably like to read it. but there's no need to pretend it's canon from a few panels you saw out of context.

beyond that, i think it's not *entirely* correct to say that fanon is harmless. whenever i see very WFA-positive posts, they often default to the argument that WFA is fun and silly, and comic fans are killjoys for not liking it. which. i think is complicated because the issue is, WFA and fanon don't exist in a vacuum. if you like WFA power to you, i don't think it's the worst thing ever, but i do think it's degrading to these characters because honestly? they feel incompetent in the webtoon. it's one thing if WFA was solely a slice-of-life sort of deal, just having silly episodes where Bruce is taking on a PTA mom or they're all fighting for the last cookie. but when WFA attempts to take on more serious plots with these characters, it *fundamentally* falls flat in understanding them. i get it, Bruce comforting Jason having a panic attack because a noise reminded him of the crowbar felt cute in a microcosm, but i'm so serious when i say that storyline destroyed how like. half of this fandom understands Jason Todd's relationship to his trauma. it doesn't understand how he reacts when he's triggered, what coping mechanisms he seeks out, and how he would handle Bruce comforting him. even if i can believe for a brief moment Jason *would* be triggered by something like that, him running and trying to hide and then getting a hug from Bruce to make it okay is just. painful. WFA needs everything to be wrapped up in a nice, neat little bow. so even when it starts to tackle interesting concepts, it makes them fall flat with its need to be soft, low stakes, hurt/comfort. there was a two-parter episode that dealt with the complicated mutual hatred/jealousy between Tim and Damian that *almost* really interested me because for once, it felt like the webtoon wanted to explore canon messy dynamics. but of course, it had to be fixed with one conversation and a hug. you don't mend the *years* of issues these characters have like that. WFA isn't in character because these characters are hyperbole cartoonified versions of themselves to fit within the medium and be a cute happy family.

because that right there, is the crux of it. the Batfamily fanon seeks to simplify the Batfamily and force them into a nuclear family. there are so many fantastic posts on here discussing how the nuclear family-ification of the Batfam is eroding decades worth of complex histories so i won't go too far into that. but what i will say is that there's this need, in the Batfamily fandom, for the Batfamily to exist as a unit. they are a *family*. (honestly i think calling it the Batfamily is a misnomer and has been for years but we're in too deep now.) they exist to each other first, and any teams or friends they have come secondary to this family unit. you can *specifically* see this demonstrated in what headcanons are becoming popular these days. i have an entire lengthy meta in my drafts about how i *loathe* the "the Batfamily meets the Justice League" genre of fanfic because it makes no *sense*. in order to have this genre of fic exist, you must operate under the assumption that no one in the League, or adjacent to the League, knows the Batfamily exists and are thus utterly shocked to discover Batman has kids. and to make *that* work, you have to strip *every single Batfamily member* of such important dynamics and friendships so you can lock them all in Gotham for their whole lives. Dick can't have the Titans, Tim can't have Young Justice, Duke & Cass can't have the Outsiders, Jason can't have the Outlaws, Damian can't have the Supersons, Babs can't have the Birds of Prey, and so on. because if they had these relationships, they would be known to the League. the Batfamily fandom doesn't care about this, it's just "silly fanfiction", it's not trying to be serious. but how can you say you like Dick Grayson as a character if you don't understand the Titans *are* his family? at some points of his life, moreso than the Batfamily even is. it is constantly repeated to us in most comics with Dick how much the Titans mean to him. he *needs* them to be who he is. the same extends to every other Batfamily member, most of which have been full League members at this point. but in fanon, that doesn't matter. the Batfamily are a sequestered unit first, and all of those side relationships are secondary and easy to toss away, if it makes your fanfic work better.

and because they have to be a unit first, you have these forced relationships that dump years of actual canon material for the sake of making them get along. the Batfamily fandom has its favorites and well. it's no secret it's usually the boys. Jason and Tim by *far* stand out as fandom faves so, their dynamic is a heavily explored one. it does matter that in canon they don't tend to get along and especially don't see each other as family. what matters is that you can push dynamics onto them. and so fanon gets all twisted up about which Robin Tim actually idolized as a kid (Dick) and what member of the Batfamily is pro-murder but still an older sibling figure to him and looks out for him (Helena, or if you want the dynamic of once tried to harm Tim but they've reconciled, Jean-Paul) in favor of who's the most popular. Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian are always going to be the standouts for popularity, but it's specifically Jason and Tim who are getting fanonized the most. and that's because really, we don't have much canon content of Tim that *isn't* the comics. for Dick you've got Young Justice (tv), for Damian you've got the DCAMU, for Jason you've sort of got the Under The Red Hood movie, but Tim sort of lingers in this limbo. (yes, he's in Young Justce (tv) and Titans (live action) but in neither is he the main character nor given much depth) so, he gets a *lot* projected onto him and has become fanonized. and even with Jason's animated movies, you don't see him interact with Tim, so people build it from the ground up how they want to see it, disregarding of canon comics. i think it's what makes him so popular in the first place- he's malleable into whatever you want or need him to be.

and of course, the fanon ignores other characters in the Batfamily it doesn't know about. i feel like you could create a tier list of Batfamily characters by their popularity, going from the fandom main characters: Tim, Jason, Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Damian. to the underrated: Steph, Duke, Babs, Cass. to the forgotten about unless they're convenient for a story: Kate, the Foxes, Helena Wayne, Carrie, Selina, Harper Row, Maps, Minhkhoa Khan. to the absolutely unknown: Helena Bertinelli, Jean-Paul Valley, Onyx Adams, the Clovers, Julia Pennyworth. it's not lost on me that the ignored characters tend to be women and people of color. which is both a canon and fanon problem, DC will continue adding interesting characters to the Batfamily, play with them for a few years, then drop them to default to the "Batboys" again. and it's a vicious cycle of the fandom only caring about the "Batboys", and thus people entering the fandom via fanon osmosis won't have content about the other characters, therefore, they won't be interested in those characters enough to create it, and it's just this ouroboros consuming itself, no matter how much canon content we have of these other characters. and it's ridiculous just how large the Batfamily is becoming because of this, which is why i'm a pre-Flashpoint fan, because then the Batfamily was contained enough to actually feel like a family with every character having nuances relationships with each other, but i digress because those thoughts could be their own post.

and the thing about fanon is it doesn't exist in a vacuum. DC has started turning the comics to accommodate for what fans are asking for, because fans will beg and beg for content they're not going to consume. Tim Drake: Robin had Tim as a coffee drinker because that's the fanon accepted headcanon. and the resolution of the recent Gotham War arc was for Bruce to buy this new manor for everyone to move in and call him. nevermind that most of these characters have their own homes and have zero reason to be moving in with Bruce. Tim had his marina in Tim Drake: Robin, Dick has Bludhaven, Cass and Steph have their little side of town in Batgirls (2022), and so on. these characters are being forced together as a unit, as one big happy family living together, to appease what non-comic fans want and it's damaging comic relationships. Robin: Knight Terrors saw Jason and Tim team up and working together, which i've seen varying opinions on but i personally despised. their interactions made zero sense for any of their canon history, but it appeases them being this close sibling relationship that fanon acts like they are. also the fears they faced in their respective knight terrors didn't make sense for either character and *only* worked as a moment of bringing them together so they could reassure each other and have this weird dreamscape bonding moment. the canon is bending itself to the will of fanon rather than building on the pre-existing complex relationships. Tim barely even gets along with his most important team in Dark Crisis: Young Justice because it seems the only important relationships the Batfamily can have is with each other. and when we do see them outside of the Batfamily, it only seems to be to relive the glory days like with World's Finest: Teen Titans, instead of developing them as they currently exist. this isn't recent in the comics, it feels like you can trace it back to the New-52, but it does feel a *lot* worse over the recent years. WFA is fine when it exists in its own bubble, but the simple truth is, DC content never exists on its own. the adaptations will reflect back onto the comics. (the damage the Young Justice cartoon has done to some characters should honestly be studied) and so it does frustrate me a bit when fanon-only or adaptation-only fans act like we're being nothing but killjoys for being frustrated with this. since they don't read the comics, they don't see how the comics are suffering as a result of this.

people argue about what's out of character for the comics they don't even read. i'm sorry, but "bad dad Bruce" is consistently canon. that man is just kind of shitty. when you take someone who has the drive he has, who has this need for the Mission first, who needs a teenager in spandex next to him to keep him off the ledge, that guy is sort of going to be a shitty father figure. he just is. not on purpose or with malice, but when you compare him to any other dad in a big DC family, he sure takes the cake. it's why characters like Oliver Queen tend to *really* fucking hate Bruce for how he treats his kids. Bruce loves fiercely, but he doesn't do well with putting that love first. and his love is a controlling one, he is very particular about controlling how others in the Batfamily are "allowed" to operate. it's what drives the wedge between him and Dick, it's why Steph is never a true daughter to him. (besides the reason of her needing to be a love interest to Tim first, anyway-) i've never understood the massive outcry of people reacting to Bruce kinda being shitty in comics they're not reading. there are some moments that get ridiculously OOC with how cartoonishly evil he is (the whole Gotham War arc and that... complicated mess with Jason) but largely if you want sitcom loving nuclear father Bruce, you have to accept that is a fanon thing, not a canon one. the Batfamily being a nuclear family in *general* is fanon. most of the "Batkids" don't actually see Bruce in a particularly fatherly light and begging for moments where he calls them his kids or they call him dad outside of incredibly specific circumstances is just OOC.

it's getting harder and harder to exist peacefully in this fandom it feels like, if you don't comply to the standard fanon has set. i'm happy people are having fun with their blorbos, even if in ways i dislike, but that "harmless fandom fun" does ripple it's way back to canon, eventually. so i end up pretty tangled with my feelings because are fans at fault for DC making these poor decisions? probably not, but it certainly feels like an unfortunate cause-and-effect situation whether at the end of the day, nobody is happy. and of course, i know some fanon-only fans are striving to be more canon accurate and care about canon dynamics more than others, but for them it's always going to be an uphill battle with the above-mentioned out-of-context panels thrown around and ever-pervasive fanon overtaking anything that's truly seeking to be canon compliant. so really, it sometimes feels like we're all losing.