#I hope the fandom will be reasonable with her

[kneelbeforeclefairy]

I finished sotr. I loved everything except the epilogue. I get haymitch will never stop loving Lenore Dove....but I was hoping that one day he'd love again. No need to do that "geese mate for life" thing.

Also, I've had to change my headcanon for Effie's name. I think like 99 percent of the fandom said her name was Euphemia, but with the sister Proserpina, I've decided it is Persephone. Matching names, the Greek and Roman versions of the same goddess! And it's a little TOO fitting to have Effie named after the goddess of springtime/death.

I also LOVE that we've finally confirmed that Haymitch and Effie DO like each other, have known each other a LONG FUCKING TIME and that....even if Hayffie didn't go canon and in fact kind of got confirmed as non canon, there confirmation that she has a place in his heart and she's always cared for him. I also love that the text seems to back up my interpretation of her. She's swallowed the Hunger Games propaganda about this being For Peace and For The Greater Good a little TOO WELL. everyone else seems to see the games as just a punishment and understand that the district people aren't really PEOPLE and we don't BELIEVE that shit. Effie doesn't. She thinks they should be treated with some respect, befitting the Great Sacrifice They're Making For Panem. And of course there's never any reason to be CRUEL I think she's behind at least some of the nicer treatment they get by Katniss' time.

I'd like to think she deconstructs some of her thinking by the 75th, and certainly after the war.

Also @bestnoncannonship and I totally called she's older than Haymitch! We gave her about three years on him, but looks like it's more like 6-7. But yes, older Effie rights!

[fiamat12]

Hello Fia!

Hoping you are good same as your partner?feel we don’t ask you enough?😌

When all this started, this could have been convincing at least to the surface level fans. I just feel the need to chug the adjacent down our throat has succeeded in making fans clock the tell tale signs of the pseudo dynamic going on.

we know they are doing this for so many possible reasons you have mentioned over the course of the last few months, we also know their PR are observing all the reactions from fans, how do you think they would feel especially A, knowing that no one is buying into this no matter how hard they are trying?

I mean they’ve really tried to be fair😅,if I could remember you predicted that the dynamic of N&J would make a reverse to L&A and I can’t believe it’s actually happening.

I just know A, or somebody working alongside side is very much lurking on tumblr, there has been a very confident anonymous posting on a few blog , that L was spotted with her.

One thing I know is, in as much as there are people who think us deluded, Nic knows the fans are crazy smart, using you as an example, and just before most of them were bullied off social media. I have seen the way most of you guys think, that some crazy brains we got in this fandom. You all challenge me.

Hi Anon! I'm just chillin', watching no one believe the farce lol. I think that A does know no one is buying into it, thus the attempt at image rehab we saw at the end of last year.

I got the same Ask from the "confident Anon" that everyone else did but chose not to post it knowing we'd cross that bridge when/ if we came to it. And we did...

I don't worry much about the antis when I think of two words: baby Newts. It's one of the main things that keeps the ship afloat because it's undeniable and makes them the delulu ones. I don't anticipate that Lukola will be able to hide it much longer nor do I think they want to.

[lollols21]

Loser (lovingly)

Yuri takes Chloe to a date but their car isn't working 🤣

I wanted to draw Chloe for a loooong time, but Twiyor fries my brain so I end up drawing them lol I find her so pretty and wish we could know more about her relationship with Yuri, but we haven't seen her since 2023...

And this opens up Pandora's box for me. One of my issues with sxf manga is the pacing. Being a biweekly release can make it very boring, especially if you're not the biggest fan of Eden's kids shenanigans. I adore Anya, but I prefer to see her in the family dynamics. I've also noticed gag repetitive patterns and well... it isn't that funny for me anymore.

Read some saying "if you binge you will notice it makes sense" well yes obviously but sometimes you wait a lot of months and simply lose interest as a whole. (I know myself 🤣)

Don't even bother coming saying: "if you don't like it don't read." I will keep doing what I please thank you very much.

We need to normalize sharing when you don't like something without others feeling offended or thinking you're just hating. It's something I just can't digest from fandoms, the lack of honesty and the overpraising. (That doesn't help in the long run) Also, you can give criticism without being disrespectful. It's a matter of perspective: not everyone follows a series for the same reason, and it's valid. I picked sxf because of the comfort it gave me in difficult times. I had years and years without paying attention to a manga series that I truly liked. I got in because I wanted to know more about Twiyor and stayed because the story is beautiful. Their designs made me draw again after years of art block. I hope I can go back to feel the spark again. I really want to.

(Ugh it feels like monday when it's tuesday, this is what I don't like about long holiday weekends lol)

-Lyly

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

hooo boy, i watched miraculous when five or six episodes of first season aired (i was aware of it when it was only two)! it was really cool to see magical girl superhero in Paris, who has a (semi-related) crush to his classmate, who's also a superhero and partner to her superhero persona - who said crush HAS A CRUSH ON SUPERHERO SELF! i remember when theories flew on identity of Hawkmoth and who could possibly be (wiki was also ambiguous on that, based on the factor of the same va, which - i mean, one va can do multiple voices, that was earlier practise for budgeting reasons)! it was nice to see heroes thru everyday lives (well, how much normal is up to debate), everyday strugles, akuma of the episodes, ways how the main heroine solves it, and (some debatable) lessons of the day - girl magical show, y'all! (even tho it was called Tales of Miraculous Ladybug and Chat Noir)

and then the lore at the end got complicated at the end of seasons! and we got a little more of lore building, and different vibes and dynamics according to that! we got more lore on some episodes, but still not rocking the main status quo story of the season!

and then S4 and S5 happened.

to me, the problem was there undefined, until, in your previous posts, you put the name on it: the writers are incapable of juggling and merging stand-alone episodes and overarching story. they started with stand-alones, but saw that the continuous plot had more success with older audiences (c'mon, scrambled episodes were partialy their tactic, whether the actual s1 scrambling was their intention or truly an accident of tv broadcasts).

and since most of the audience are online, they think that providing additional and vague explanations and lore can - let's be frank, cover their asses. (which, hello, one show with overarching plot did almost the same with their actual lore, and only the hardcores picked up on it - bad idea if you want to make deeper sense to the story)

they tried marrying the storytelling formulas (stand-alones and overarched) in S2 and S3, but it wasn't noticeable, remarkable, and didn't raise the fandom's ire too much - still not rocking the actual important boat, which is offline view on the actual show (kids stand-alone, just turn your brain off and enjoy!) (which, in fairness, Thomas worked on Totally Spies, and that show had some success). it was egregious when it became obvious and contradicting (bc tying all the episodes's lore details is REALLY the true detective work), WHILE STILL WORKING WITH STAND-ALONE FORMULA! (some speculation on my part: some leaks didn't help with the writing process; different writers for different episodes (good idea for brainstorming, bad idea for the core characterisation and story); and... well, they certainly aren't good, or at all, detectives, or long-time planners - i mean, you plan several seasons, but not the finer details? the devils are in them, not in investors whims and wishes in order to get money).

but the desperate hope, masochistic curiosity and the endless possibilities of lore and story are already deep in our brains and hearts that we have to see thru the actual chaotic dumpster mess of the show and how it ends - some love it, some hate the ride, some cope with fanfics, some with rants, and some left the train and are somewhere else. the rest who remain... well hello there! make sure you get enough rests, snacks, beverages of your choice and some meditations (any kind) to witness all!

anyway, that's my pov.

The writers apparently always wanted to tell a more complex story, they just couldn't early on because they'd sold the show as not having one:

So Sebastien sold the Miraculous series to broadcasters as a formula show. A person gets angry, is akumatized, then marinette transforms into Ladybug then frees the person from the akumatization and… The End. It's also for this reason that Marinette tries to confess her love for Adrien in every episode, but is unable to do so. But he tried to go against what he had planned with TF1, by slipping little extra stories into certain episodes. Audiences were receptive to these slightly hidden stories. The TV channel even asked Sébastien if there really were hidden things in the series, but he denied everything. Thanks to the positive reception from the public, TF1 agreed to develop the characters of Marinette and Adrien and flesh out the universe a little more.

My tin foil hat theory is that this conflict is at the heart of Miraculous' problems. The writers keep trying to make the show they want to make instead of the show they can make within the limits set by the higher ups and so you end up with the worst of both worlds. A show that's too serious to just turn off your brain and have fun with, but a show that's also too underdeveloped to tell a serialized story well. (Supporting evidence for this theory: the script for Chat Blanc getting rejected for being "too dark" leading it to be in season three instead of season two.)

I get the frustration of being held back from telling the story you want to tell, I really do, but I'm of the opinion that you should tell the best story you can within the limits you set instead of trying and failing to tell the darker grittier story that you really want to tell, but can't because no one will pay for it.

Context for that last bit;

So Sébastien started working with Thomas Astruc (the man who wrote and created the "Ladybug" project). At first, he didn't want to work on this project because he found it complicated. Thomas wanted to make a series for adults, but at the time, it was very complicated to make a cartoon for adults. What's more, they didn't have enough money to take on such a project. Sébastien finally agreed, but there were some changes to be made, which Thomas accepted.

(Note this is from the same interview linked above.)

[djarins-cyare]

Last Photo & Song

NO CHEATING: You’re starring in a movie with the last person saved in your camera roll and the last song you listened to is the title. Who/what is it?

Thanks @burntheedges @quicksilvermad and @magpiepills for tagging me in this (several days ago, I’m sorry I’m so slow!).

Alright, so I’ve finally finished watching season 3 of The Bad Batch, and I may have developed a teensy little crush on Crosshair because I guess I can’t resist a bad-boy redemption arc. Din is still my One True Love, of course, but Crosshair has carved out his own little smutty corner in my brain, so I’ve been saving gifs of him smouldering sexily, and this is the latest. [I didn’t make a note of the creator, but whoever is responsible for this 3-second miracle, thank you 🙏🏻]

Hmm… me and Crosshair in a movie called Just Give Me a Reason. Based on the lyrics, I’m gonna say my character has to help him overcome his guilt and trauma about everything that happened to him, and in turn, he helps me with some of my own emotional baggage…

Just give me a reason, just a little bit’s enough Just a second, we’re not broken, just bent, and we can learn to love again It’s in the stars, it’s been written in the scars on our hearts That we’re not broken, just bent, and we can learn to love again

Maybe it’s set on Pabu after season 3 finishes, and I’m a surgeon/modder who comes to the island with my own bitter story of loss and regret. Keen to help his brother’s recovery, Hunter asks me to make Crosshair a prosthetic hand, except Crosshair refuses at first. Then he and I slowly build a rapport, and he eventually consents to the mod. I start working on it, and we get closer and closer while helping one another through our respective emotional traumas. There’ll be some kind of angst/disaster, of course, and the requisite third-act conflict/crisis, but it’ll all resolve itself – probably thanks to Omega, who is more mature than her brothers.

Depending on the movie’s rating, there are two possible endings. (1) When Crosshair’s new hand is finally ready, there’s a tastefully shot sex scene where he puts it to good use and proves he can translate his marksman’s steady reflexes and pinpoint accuracy into other enjoyable pursuits 😏. Or (2) The third-act conflict/crisis results in the new hand being a no-go, but there’s a sweet ending wherein I convince Crosshair he’s just as loveable with only one hand.

If I wrote for Crosshair, this could totally be a fic. But Din fic ideas pull the strings in this brain, so this’ll have to remain just a gif and an idea!

I’ve tried to include a few Clone fans in my tags in an effort to spread this game beyond just the Pedro fandom (sorry if y’all aren’t into tag games, but it’s nice to be included, I hope?)

@acourtofsnakes @burningfieldof-clover @court-jobi @cw80831 @dancingwiththeplanets

@davnittbraes @dumfanting @eatommo @firstofficerwiggles @flightlessangelwings

@happy-beeeps @kyberblade @sytortuga @the-kittylorian-writes @writingsoftheloser

[lastofthewardens]

after tonight's episode, i'm just kind of sat here

thinking about why it's so hard for adaptations to just respect source material these days.

not really related to anything that happened. i don't watch the episodes, i won't do it unless i hear foggy is back. i read about what happened and see some relevant clips on social media and that's it.

i know the original show wasn't perfect in this regard but it captured the spirit of many things imo. it's certainly not above criticism, but i think they cared, generally speaking. and there are many adaptations in the past that have made changes but still largely functioned as love letters to the source material. i think the original show did a good job at balancing things, for the most part.

so i don't expect 1 to 1 adaptations of stuff. i really don't. but i do expect respect, and for certain ingredients to be included and matter, because otherwise, what's even the point, right?

the reason this came up is, i was on twitter today and saw some clips from a k*tie c*ssidy interview talking about when her character got killed off on arr*w, and it made me remember how mad that made me. i started reading gr*en arr*w comics specifically BECAUSE i was so pissed about that choice when it happened in season 4. (at which point i learned much more about the source material and had many other issues but still).

it's funny because.. i remember so clearly that when arr*w killed off bl*ck c*nary, the arr*w subreddit changed to be a daredevil subreddit for a while. it was funny as hell, just everyone united under the idea that killing her off was just wildly stupid. the ratings of the show went down when she died! that's how much people cared about comic book integrity and respect for the source material.

and make no mistake, killing bl*ck c*nary in a gr*en arr*w show was WILD. most of the fandom KNEW that was an insane choice because of how important she is to arr*w lore. but foggy gets killed in daredevil and parts of the fandom.. what? praise the show so hard you can't say anything bad without getting downvoted on reddit? lmao

truly the meme of die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

i don't know. foggy is a necessary part of daredevil to me. i don't want to watch a show without him. i don't feel that killing him off shows an understanding of any of these characters or the things that matter to daredevil as a character/story/source material. sure, it's nice to hear matt say wonderful things about foggy, and even i have to admit that that one particular scene was well done, but i don't want that in retrospect, i want matt to be able to say those things to his face. i want foggy to be there in all of the places he should've been in all of these plots. i don't think telling another story about grief is worth losing his entire place in the narrative.

like even if i somehow eat my words and foggy comes back alive (i'm not letting myself hope and i got bad vibes that it's going to stick after watching that scene with frank because that was A Lot for a fake death), i'll be happy to have him back, sure, i'll go back and watch the show, yeah, but.. it doesn't really erase all the problems that exist from this choice being made at all. it just makes them slightly more tolerable because there'd be a light at the end of the tunnel. but this show will never be the same again. they've already covered things and plan to cover things that foggy should be there for, and it's just so noticeable to me that he's not.

my wife and i have been discussing this pretty much since ep 1 came out basically because i've been very upset. i keep telling her that this show is "missed opportunities: the show", and i really believe that. every time i hear about something that happened, or a plot point that could've been cool, or an adaptation that missed something out, i can only think of how much better it would've been in the hands of the old team or even just a different team.

but these days, they don't care about these things. they're not hired to care about these things, they're hired to make something that will make as much money as possible. arr*w only brought back k*tie c*ssidy because their ratings went down.

it's just a huge shame that adaptations now just constantly want to do their own thing and subvert expectations. like.. i guess it's just me, but that's absolutely not what i want. i don't want my expectations subverted, i want to see my favorite stories either continued or brought to life in ways that show love and care. i know i can just watch the original show or read the comics or whatever, but man, i miss adaptations being made by people who just genuinely love the source material. you can always tell the difference, always.

[beautifulsnake2162020]

Okay I'm going to be the one with the unpopular opinion over here, and I say this with all respect to those who like Book Michael (especially after I read the latest book in the series dealing with Quarantine hoping that Meg Cabot would at least make them more mature since they are adults now):

But I think Book Michael and Mia should not have become the endgame couple. Or if Book Michael should necessarily be the endgame partner it should have taken place after Mia has finished college (honestly she should have more time than that but after college would be a bare minimum for me). She barely has enough time to truly figure out who she is and what she is willing to compromise on. It's her reaction to this news and also how Michael handled it that shows why neither of them were ready to be partners to each other. To paraphrase what Gavin Reads it All when he was reviewing the books, Mia may be an annoying emotional mess - but she is 16. Of course she wouldn't be mature about it. And Michael as the older and more experienced partner has the obligation to clearly disclose his sexual history with her even though he may not agree that virginity is a precious gift. Yes, he tried to keep it together before he blew it off in the end as he tried to tell Mia that it's not a big deal and it was just a fun thing in the past, but I couldn't help but think that this is a sign that when it comes to their romantic relationship he doesn't have empathy for what Mia could be feeling. He also still has some growing up to do when it comes to being sensitive to the insecurities of his partner (whether that would be Mia or someone else). Both of them should have had multiple years apart before even attempting anything romantic with each other. Michael coming back and sleeping with Mia in Book 10 was mainly wish fulfillment to those who think that senior year of high school would be the height of maturity. Michael's own pursuit of Mia when she was clearly in a committed relationship with JP was like another red flag that was consistent with his pattern of pursuing or sleeping with women who are already in committed relationships. And no matter how supportive he seemed in other books I couldn't help but think that it would have been better if Mia and Michael did not get together straight after high school. But Michael is the fandom favorite for Mia and this is mainly a teen drama wish fulfillment plot that seems to never really mature when it comes to romantic relationships.

Which leads me to how enraged I felt on Mia's behalf when he laughs off her jealousy over Judith Gershner when she fully understood that they were working together. Instead of finding the root cause on why she is feeling insecure he thrives on it. And this to me shows that Mia was not able to truly become more mature in her romantic relationship and that Michael who thrives off of Mia's attention stunted that growth by pursuing her in Book 10.

Mia knowing how to deal with her insecurities especially in a romantic relationship as well as knowing how to deal with her jealousy over the woman who had slept with her partner before she did - while it isn't Michael's to deal with, he should have been aware at how triggering and stressful this was for her. And she could have had that emotional maturity had she spent time on her own as she grew into adulthood.

If I had it my way, Mia would spend her college years alone and discovering who she is. Michael should have just gotten together with Judith for real at the end of the main series or be alone or with someone else (as long as it is away from Mia). That way they could actually grow and have emotional maturity. The reason why I think Michael and Judith should have an actual romantic relationship instead of the friends-with-benefits one they had previously is so that he could definitively know if they could have worked as actual partners instead of fuck buddies. Especially since on paper Judith represents Mia's ideal partner for Michael since they work in the same field and (in Mia's perspective) was smarter than her. If it works it works, if not then not. If I'm forced to make them an endgame couple, they would meet for the first time when they have to work together to manage the COVID-19 pandemic. Perhaps then Mia would at least know her self-worth as a person and could at least manage her insecurities. Perhaps then she would realize how her feelings toward Michael was just obsessive infatuation and that it isn't healthy. Maybe then Michael would actually now be a partner that could support her instead of stunting her and laughing at things that bother her.

Thoughts on Mia's blow-up at Michael in book 8

After a conversation with my friend, whose preference for being tagged here is uncertain, so I'll just keep her anonymous, but I have to give her major kudos!! (you know who you are ;)) I've just realized why Mia reacts so spastastic to the whole Judith Gershner situation.

But before diving into that, let me share my initial thoughts before coming to the realization and understanding of Mia's outburst: When I reached that part in the book, I couldn't comprehend why she reacted so strongly. I mean, I knew sex and losing her virginity was a big deal to her, but the thought never crossed my mind of the reverse. If Michael had had sex with anyone else. I mean, I honestly didn't think Michael had it in him, tbh. lol. (but then again, he's a hot nerd so who can blame him) Was I just as shocked as Mia? YES!!!! YES, I WAS!!! Also, I don't think Michael even handled it well. He was just so not sensitive in parts of their conversation. but then again, Mia was freaking out, and that, in turn, threw him off. (Also, he's what, 19?) Though, he did keep his cool for the most part .... till the very end where he lost his cool for a second. In fairness, Mia was going crazy.... with crazy eyes, as he pointed out. He was worried about her; he had never seen her so upset before. I think Michael *knew* this would happen, that THIS would upset Mia. That's why he didn't come right out and tell her. And like he said, it's not like Mia asked about it. I think if Mia asked, he would have been upfront with her. He's not a liar. How was Michael supposed to know that Mia treasured her "precious gift" of virginity? She never talked about it with him. I don't think they talked a whole lot about sex because she was uncomfortable with it, and Michael wasn't going to push her (only push the boundaries with his hands when they wandered in their makeout sessions.) Sure, they had their three-month "talk," religiously but that was more or less like... Mia:"I'm not ready" Michael: "Fine. We'll reconvene in three months." It's not like Helen goes around preaching abstinence. I get not wanting your daughter to have sex at 14 and telling her she should wait, but that isn't the same as what Mia was reading in Tina's books about purity, and you're only worth is your virginity crap. Like I think if Helen knew what Mia was reading she'd have a serious sit down heart-to-heart with her daughter and tell her she's worthy no matter what. Those books did so much damage to Mia!!!! I think when Michael was fooling around with Judith, he was upset that Mia liked Kenny, not him. He was upset at himself that he didn't make his move at the movies and ultimately upset that he fell for his little sister's best friend, a girl who should more or less be like a sister to him, but he's gone and fallen hard for her. I think he was at a very low point when he and Judith were studying. Did he make the first move? Did Judith? I honestly think Judith did since she had a boyfriend. Did Michael regret being with Judith after? Abso-fucking-lutely! Why else would he try and forget about it? "It was before you and I even started going out...." (I didn't want to think about how stupid I was for being so upset you didn't like me) "I didn't think- I mean, it was so long ago-" (yeah... I didn't think you liked me.... so I slept with her.... and now I'm trying to block it out of my memory, Mia) Another thing is, I think Michael honestly forgot as time went on... like in his mind, it was just a fact that he slept with Judith and thought at some point he had told Mia since Michael said with a straight face and no hesitation, "No, of course not. You know that" after Mia asked him, "are you not a virgin?" Then, when Mia was like, "NOOOOO, I DID NOT KNOW THAT!" He got VERY aware, VERY quickly, that they had NOT talked about his past because he knew she was jealous of that person and didn't want to upset her. I think if they were THAT serious about having sex in the past, I think Michael would have told her, but he knew she was never serious, so why bring it up if she didn't want to discuss it with him?

Anyway... I've always sided with Michael and Lilly on this one—why the heck did Mia explode the way she did?

Well, the discovery dawned on me that while Mia was struggling to process Michael's surprise news about him leaving for Japan for a year OR MORE, the discovery that he's not a virgin, a detail he's kept hidden from her throughout their relationship, triggered her beyond her capacity. I truly think it took her back to when the other people she trusted in the whole world (Her mom and dad) had betrayed her trust when they told her she was a princess. Not saying this is as shocking as her parents lying about her being a princess all her life, but she trusted Michael and he betrayed her trust by not telling her one of THE most important thing she cares about. This is why she said he lied (even though he didn't). Omitting the truth is the same thing to her. Anyway, let me know your thoughts if you disagree or agree or want to add anything else that I missed! Loved to hear everyone else's thoughts!

[mortemlifeness]

I saw information about Sandrone's character and died. Her character is interesting, yes, but I'm afraid she will meet Ayaka and Firefly's fate. Don't turn her into yandere for Protagonist (Aether), please no.

[tea-cat-arts]

You know what, I've read enough fanfic. I'm confiscating Madame Yu from you guys

Free my girl- she did the things she's being accused of, but not as frequently or severely as the fandom pretends, her actions are being taken out of context, and her depth is being reduced to that of a Colleen Hoover antagonist

[two-entire-bits]

I have a confession. I do not care for the soc boys. I'm sure they have very interesting character traits and lore the actors and fandom have come up with and that is so fun and great and I know none of it and I am perfectly content with that. Shout out to all my mutuals who love the soc boys I hope you are having fun with your Ken dolls but I will not be joining you. keep slaying.

[hyperfixationsposting]

an immortal bisexual witch and the cute lesbian butcher she may or may not have hooked up with once or twice :))

[brucestalia]

"being a talia fan is hard" "being a selina fan is hard" you know what's harder?

being a fan of both talia and selina. like please, ladies (and gents), can we take a moment to just admire two beautiful, fantastic, amazing, gorgeous, capable women AND pass the bechdel test?

please?

i love women!!!!!!!!!!! ૮ ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ა

live. and let them live.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

The fandom can't make up its mind on what's supposed to be a joke and what's supposed to be serious because the show can't either half the time. It's a tonally disjointed mess that wants to have absurd over-the-top humor as well as a plot and moments of drama, romance, and angst that demand you see the characters as people and feel for what they're going through. Except you can't do that without also treating the dumb bullshit in a somewhat grounded way. Like, you're still dealing with the same characters. You can't just go "Oh, that? Let's ignore that!" the moment it's no longer convenient to you. You've opened this can of worms and now you have to sleep in it. So, every character flip-flops between two different versions of themselves depending on what the writers need in any particular scene.

This is not to say surreal humor can't be used right alongside characters you're supposed to empathize with, Teen Titans (not Go) did that and it worked. It's just that the absurdity can only come from the setting (Mad Mod, Mother Mae-Eye, pretty much anything Control Freak is in) or from designated joke characters (Date With Destiny). Teen Titans never had the main characters acting in clearly absurd ways as the butt of a joke unless those characters were brainwashed somehow, because the writers knew that would ruin any of the more grounded moments they wanted to write. The writers of Miraculous missed the memo on that one.

I don't disagree. A perfect example is Derision where the show takes all of the bad jokes about Marinette's crush and decides to take them seriously as if you can possible take them seriously without making Marinette come across as unhinged and dangerous. You can't, which brings us to the topic at hand: how do you even begin to understand these characters when the show is constantly making character-breaking choices?

My approach - and the approach I recommend others take if they're going to keep watching the show - is to focus on the characters' cores and reject anything canon does to violate those cores. I don't argue for this stance because I love the characters so much that I only want the good things to count. I take this stance because, if you don't, then the characters fall apart. There is no way to make them work as fully realized characters while embracing every choice canon has made. Miraculous has massive characterization issues that go well beyond the humor.

For example, Adrien has multiple moments of terrible behavior that are played in a serious manner such as the moment in the episode Frozer where he tries to start a fight with Ladybug in the middle of an akuma attack because she wouldn't accept a rose from him earlier:

Setup

Ladybug: I can't accept this rose from you. I told you already. I'm in love with someone else. Cat Noir: I know, M'lady. But if he weren't here, would things be different between us? Ladybug: Well, you know, I can't even begin to imagine him not being here. I'm sorry, Cat Noir. I really gotta get going, and you better do the same. (Swings her yo-yo to head back home; Cat Noir is sad, looking downwards, with one petal of the rose falling.)

Payoff

Ladyice: Cat Noir. We need to set up a trap for whoever turned the city into a giant ice rink. (throws yo-yo) Icecat: (bitterly) My feline instincts prefer to track and observe before I attack. You go your way, I'll go mine. Ladyice: Please don't tell me you're mad at me about the rose. Icecat: There may be a certain chill now between us. Ladyice: I get it, but we should really focus on saving Paris right now. Icecat: We don't always have to do everything together, after all. It's not like we're a couple. (skates away)

There's no way to argue this off as a bad joke. While Adrien has every right to feel hurt, those feelings don't excuse him acting like a pouting child in the middle of an akuma fight. It doesn't excuse him acting like this at any point! Ladybug is not a villain for telling him no. She wasn't even mean about it!

I clearly fully agree that Adrien looks awful and selfish here, but I'd still argue that it's not something that should be used to define Adrien's character if your goal is to tell the "ideal" version of Miraculous. "Ideal" being the version that canon seems to be going for based on the overall picture we can sort of make out if we back way, way, way up and look at the extremely abstract picture canon is clumsily painting.

Unless canon is going to do something monumentally stupid, Adrien is Marinette's endgame romantic interest. It's also clear that there is no plan to cut him from the team. He's going to be Chat Noir for the rest of his life or at least well into his adulthood. This means that he is supposed to be a good hero who deserves his miraculous just like he's supposed to be a charming and cute romantic lead. These are the two things I keep in mind when trying to shift through canon to figure out what writing choices I should fully embrace and what writing choices I have to either ignore or treat as true flaws that get an actual character arc. In my book, either approach is fine because most of the characters are deeply flawed at this point and you can't give them all arcs without bloating the story to nonsense levels.

My goal with this approach is never to say, "oh, that moment shouldn't count in terms of how people feel about the character." It's more, "that moment goes so hard against who this character is very clearly supposed to be that I can't take it into account if I want to tell the kind of story that Miraculous is trying (and clearly failing) to tell."

As an example, let's list off Adrien's worst behaviors. The things that make him look terrible:

He sucks at communicating his needs and feelings, leading to multiple moments where he gets mad at Ladybug for things she's totally unaware of

He has quit or considered quitting without warning multiple times and only one of those was because of something he did "wrong" (NYC Special)

He puts his feelings before the safety of Paris on multiple occasions, even going so far to purposely miss akuma fights to see what happens

He is incredibly pushy about his crush, often ignoring Ladybug's feelings on the topic by continuing to bring it up even after she asked him to stop

There have been multiple instances where he almost cataclysmed multiple people in a fit of anger

His love for Ladynette isn't strong enough to let him break free of things like akumas and nightmare dust even when he's looking her in the eyes making him a pretty crappy romantic lead

People will argue that some of this behavior makes sense for his character because of the abuse that canon has technically introduced, but that the writers seem blissfully unaware of. I don't disagree with that argument, but that doesn't change the fact that none of this is acceptable behavior for a hero and Adrien is a hero who keeps doing these things. A sad backstory doesn't give you the right to behave poorly without consequences.

At the same time, if I fully embrace these elements of canon, what I get is an Adrien salt fic where he loses his miraculous for good while Marinette finds her real true love or even just a non-salty fic where Adrien leaves for his own meatal health and gets replaced by someone who can handle being a hero right now. Canon's not writing either of those, so the only way to engage with these flaws while enjoying canon or aiming for the same end goals as canon is to say, "I guess this doesn't count" or "I guess I need to tone this way down and work through it via a character arc" or even "I guess that was just a bad joke maybe?"

That is the essence of what I mean when I call myself a writing salt, character sugar blog. It comes from looking at canon and seeing that there's simply no way to embrace the worst moments and the best at the same time. We're not dealing with a coherent plot and/or complex characters. We're dealing with a nonsense plot that will warp the characters to bizarre shapes to make random ideas work even if those idea go wildly against canon's end goals.

As an example, Glaciator and Frozer should not exist in the same universe or, at the very least, something should explain why Chat Noir randomly changed his stance on Ladybug's crush from acceptance to pushiness. As is, the pieces don't fit together. The behavior is too contradictory. Remember, this is how Glaciator ends:

Perhaps Ladybug will love me someday. I mean, like, I love her. I have to believe. In the meantime, her friendship is the best gift of all.

Where did this version of Adrien go? Why did he regress in Frozer? There's no in-universe reason. It happened because the writers weren't ready to let the love square date or grow close, but they also wanted the love square to cause drama, so Adrien ends up looking terrible just like Marinette ends up looking terrible when it's her turn to cause love square drama. Her terribleness takes a different flavor so it can be hard to realize that this is a systemic issue, but that's what it is. It's deeply frustrating, but it also clearly stems from cheap writing and not quality characterization.

This is also why my stance is that canon as a whole only supports my Doyalistic core-character analysis style of approach. The writing is too poor quality to do Watsonian analysis where you embrace the full picture and try to put it all together. The closest I'll get to Watsonian analysis is pointing out how much the writing botches a Watsonian take by showing you all the way the writing contradicts itself, twisting into a nonsense pretzel of frustration where the payoffs never satisfy! (See the season four rant for an example or anything where I talked about Chloe's supposed damnation arc.)

There are even characters where canon is such a total mess that you can Doyalistically argue for two separate takes! Gabriel is a perfect example. He is all over the place and his ending was so poorly handled that you can make strong arguments for writing him as a cold-hearted villain or a sympathetic villain without the end result feeling like it spits in the face of canon because both takes maintain his one core element: villain.

That's the big thing I keep in mind when I look at the characters and the lore and the plots and try to come up with versions that the average fan would like. I don't think that there's one true version of any of these things, but I do feel comfortable saying that there are versions that will very clearly only appeal to people who are salty about a specific thing that canon did poorly. That's not who I want to appeal to in my adaptions, so while I'm not going to argue that those takes have no backing in canon, I will argue that those takes are not supported by canon as a whole. Embracing them requires you to take the worst parts of canon at face value while ignoring what canon is clearly trying to do with the overall story.

I get the appeal of that, but it's not fun for me because that approach feels like rolling around in the mud with the pigs. I don't want to sink to canon's level! I want to have fun! That's why I talk about how to make canon into its best self, not its worst self. If you want its worst self, just go watch the actual show. I will be shocked it if disappoints you.

[thedeadestmeme]

you mean. i'm supposed to believe that there's a slight possibility that Marcille isn't in love with Falin. i feel like that possibility may exist in the same world that Achilles and Partoclus aren't in love. believe as you will, but that sounds like the world where Destiel isn't canon.

[kinun]

Celestia...?

[suffarustuffaru]

The fanbase is scaring me, the redesigns brought up some weird people that are REALLY passionate about Liliana being half naked

Like theres a whole war going on on twitter rn and the poor character designer got harassed

My problem is with the amount of people upset with this, like i knew we had a bunch of pedos around because of the way tappei writes the girls, but damn i didnt think there were this many of them 💀

yes ive heard about that....... im answering your ask late oops haah but i hope the situations a Bit better..... the toxic parts of this fandom give me a headache but my usual motto is to stay off twitter, touch grass, ignore people, and then hold onto my own viewpoints unless proven wrong alsjdflsdj but like. yeah this fandom is a bit tough to stay in when it comes to certain circles (for example the amount of people low quality shitposting / ranting about the fandom or whatever on rezero ao3 atm in the past days/weeks is. mm. interesting). not my first time being in larger fandoms that make you sometimes feel like youre fighting in the trenches (you could name off a few big fandoms notorious for being toxic that date back to like 2016 and odds are ive been in a couple lajdlf) but yeah seeing people complain about liliana and capella's designs and then overly fixate on emilia's boobs when these three characters have more to bring to the table than just that and theres lots and lots of good things to say about the s3 trailer and their designs..... mm. yeah. im squinting hard at a few of the things ive heard on that. but anyway!!

like the new designs are an Improvement. In General. like ok, as a boob haver myself ("boob haver" is the funniest phrase to me alsdjfls but it is true nonetheless, i am one) i do not give a shit about emilias larger boobs like ok?? her boobs are bigger?? she is still my fav ever and sometimes it just happens when youre still a growing teen/young adult and emilias back to her more revealing main outfit when she wore a different outfit in s2 so the difference in chest size is really not that much. but liliana and capella? those are Improved designs. i think ive talked abt the treatment of underage characters / characters who appear underage on my blog before (and i definitely couldve worded myself better then but i stand behind the fact that some of the stuff otsuka and tappei do regarding this in rezero is just Unnecessary).

could designs like emilia's still be improved on in other ways? yeah 100%, just in the sense that there could probably be changed a bit to fit her slightly more timid and soft spoken personality. or you could take different directions on it in general if you wanted. ive seen some great redesigns of her main outfit!! though her main outfit in of itself is pretty nice to look at imo and its iconic and well-known for a reason. im of the personal opinion that i wish it was a little less revealing in the same vein that her s2 main outfit was (i like that outfit a lot!!) but its still a really solid design overall.

i had some faith after seeing the anime designers fix up typhoon's original design to be More Appropriate, and i love how the essence of liliana and capella's designs were kept the same. like its not just that theyre a little less revealing (and even then, theyre both still showing a lot of skin!!! which is good!!! i like the improvement while keeping the main stuff the same), but stuff like liliana's pants aren't transparent (probably to make it easier to animate?) and the yellow/orange gradient in capella's hair looks great!! they also both look more like grown women which is a bonus. unless youre Weird about this shit which is unfortunately a small percentage of the rezero community. like you cant win with those sort of people ig, bc capella's boobs are bigger too ljasdlfj youd think that win more people over.

also i appreciate capella's sports bra bc unlike elsa's outfit it Actually looks like it's supporting her chest. if youre someone with boobs and you dont have a flat chest, youre gonna need support when being active or itll Hurt. and elsa Does Not have proper chest support okay. ill forever wince remembering elsa's design in that sense HAH....

anyway but i digress. i got no clue what to do with toxic people in fandoms despite spending a lot of time lurking in large fandoms with loud toxic people haah.... its hard to do much about it especially with increasingly declining media literacy rates everywhere.... the notorious misogyny/homophobia/etc that can happen sometimes in anime communities.... that sort of thing. i kinda just avoid it when it comes to rezero in specific, or briefly talk about it on here, or rant about it to myself in my head or chat with pals about it in private if it really frustrates me that much!! and id say im a pretty patient person hah... im not frustrated often. and the fandom is not all weird people of course and i can attest to that as ive chatted with a lot of people here... ive also seen a lot of people leave due to the fandom's Issues which is. totally fair tbh.

and i think rezero is often a "baby's first fandom" so to speak... i dont mean that in a bad way of course but its more like its the first exposure to fandom and fandom etiquette and fic etiquette and that sort of thing when it comes to english circles. or at least its a pattern ive noticed, so my theory is that that occasionally that combines with toxic fans and then you get a few people complaining about the community and how bad our fics are on rezero ao3 ig lajdlfjsdlf. which is false by the way :<< and an annoying misuse of ao3 as a free creative archive :<<

but ultimately i hope the rezero character designer's alright (and honestly theyve done super super great work - like the anime Did Not need to give emilia a bajillion outfits and go above and beyond with improving liliana, capella, giving the suwens and their hometown a whole unique aesthetic, etc). and also while i have stuff to criticize with otsuka and tappei... and the toxic parts of the fandom hah... i still enjoy rezero apart from that and the uproar with the designs has not chipped away at me too much!! ive been in this fandom long enough i guess lmao i just roll with punches at this point T^T but i also just try to look on the bright side a lot in general so ;-;;;

these are the sorts of things i like to be aware about but i dont like to get myself super involved with it (since itll probably make it worse and/or make me stressed for no good reason lmfaoo) and i wont let it enjoy the parts of rezero that i do enjoy a lot (which is to say like. the other 98% of rezero hah). so. getting off twitter is the biggest godsend i promise lajdlsfj.

but anyway!! yeah i dont have much organized thoughts on all of this, this is just me rambling my feelings on it. hope this all makes sense anon <3