#I don't get why people ship radioapple

[kawaiitail-chan]

When i say i like the dilf + twink dynamic, i DON'T mean radioapple

[notherpuppet]

Do you think there's a right and/or wrong way to handle QPR? I know it's a tricky relationship, but it feels like most/some people kind of just slap the label onto a ship while depicting the ship as just romantic/having no difference with a romantic relationship. (this is why I was a little surprised when you said you do radioapple qpr when it reads a lot more like normal romance). Not meant as an attack or anything on anyone, just genuinely curious more than anything. Again, tricky relationship

So Imma put this link to info at the top of this post: https://taaap.org/2022/07/16/qprs-part-one/

Alright, so please take what I say with a grain of salt, because that's exactly what it is. One small bit of perspective in a mass of many people who experience QPRs in their life and/or are on an aro/ace spectrum. I also have NO QUALIFICATIONS on gender/sexuality theory, so my opinions are shaped by what I've learned and experienced personally. While people may identify with the same term, we are all still individuals with our own experiences. Words can help describe a phenomenon, but it doesn't make everyone who identifies with the word into a monolith.

So I've stated a few times that I navigate shipping Alastor similar to my own experiences as an aroace person. (I guess I'm sharing about myself with this post, but I think that can be helpful to just spreading awareness of an "alternative lifestyle"). So I'm romance-repulsed and sex-repulsed LOL but I'm also "positive" about those things. Like I view romance and sex as lovely, fun experiences people can have, but I've never been into it personally. It's fun for me to consume media about romance/sex, but yknow, it's also fun for me to consume media about violence or isolation. Doesn't mean I want to experience or engage in any of those things lol.

Anyway, I'm a huge people person and I love to party and yknow it seems most people are really wanting to fall in love or fuck or whatever pretty much all the time, but especially at parties hahaha. Normally, I'm pretty touch-averse, but I love dancing so much and it's a blast to dance with a partner (salsa especially!! i don't care for grinding for probably obvious reasons). And to connect the two previous sentences, people (whatever gender they are) would be very kissy-touchy on the dancefloor. Which i honestly dont really give a fuck about hahaha. I don't really get anything out of kissing but I also don't mind it. I just like to dance. It's all a pretty superficial--but still genuinely fun--experience for me.

When it comes to my deeper or more intimate connections, I have had friendships that have felt SO on the line of what was viewed as a romantic relationship. They were exceptional friends and we connected on a level that was deep and true, but it wasn't romantic. Sometimes we'd slow dance, sometimes we kissed, and it rocked. But it wasn't more than that, it was all that it needed to be. I didn't want more and neither did they (except one situation and so we had to stop being friends lol whoops). From the outside, people would even refer to us as partners in a half joking way, but we really were just friends. And I love those friends!! And a huge part of what made those relationships (which at the time were described as 'situationships' because we didn't know any of these terms haha) was their convenience. We either lived in the same building, worked together, or were neighbors LOL. I'm still friends with those absolutely lovely folks, but we don't live around each other, so our QPR just appears a lot more like any ole regular friendship. But it's not like there was a feeling that we transitioned into something different than before. It twas what it twas! (Had to take a pause while I was typing to reminisce fondly for a second, okay back to hazbin hahaha)

SO, whenever someone asks or it comes up, MOST OF THE TIME I do ship alastor through an aroace lens and experience with QPRs (specifically, MINEE because they were fun and I've never felt like doing this before I met a character like Al). And my XP is: "this isn't gonna be a partnership and we ain't fucking" LMFAO. so yeah!

When it comes to using a queer term like QPR, I just hope folks are considerate in their writing, but I also am inclined to just believe them if they say that's their intention because QPRs can look very different. Again, aroace and ace folks are not a monolith. The terms help to describe a human's experience. I'm inclined to think people are writing in good faith.

And all this being said, I want to just emphasize that I really don't think it's necessary to consider any of this shit if you want to ship a fictional character. I understand wanting to be protective of a character who shares an identifier with you (I personally don't wanna see romance/sex with Al in canon). But shipping is a fun thing a fandom does that often does ignore canon. Tale as old as time. I don't think anyone needs to be beholden to canon when they're writing fanfiction or having fun. If we did, I would have like--5 artworks on this blog hahaha. These characters are like dollies, do whatever you want. It's cool if people don't like it and I think it's cool if people do. It's just not that serious. There are ships I'm not particularly into or dynamics that I am not enchanted by, but whatever. I can just scroll or close my eyes.

TLDR; shipping in fandom doesn't need to be taken seriously at ALL. It can just be fun way for someone to play with fictional characters they like. That being said, I think it's good practice to use queer terms thoughtfully.

[allastoredeer]

I have no problem with al being a bottom, I just have a hard time with bottom king lucifer as a top. May I have examples to try and see your side?

Exhibit A:

Dat smirk.

Exhibit B:

Soft Top Lucifer

Exhibit C:

Demon Top Lucifer

Exhibit C:

That sexy shoulder bop

Exhibit D:

Look at this guy.

Exhibit E:

Obvious one.

Exhibit F:

I just wanted to post this one cuz I like his smirky little face.

LOL no, seriously though, there's no specific way a character has to act or behave to be deemed a top, bottom or switch. It's a preferred sexual position that isn't dependent on outside factors, it's just what a person enjoys, and what the reader/viewer wants that character to be. That's essentially what it is. It's not based on logic, it's based on what position the fan prefers for them to be in.

Lucifer could do his sexy little shoulder bop and still be a bottom. He can give the most suave, seductive smirk and still be a bottom. It's different for everyone.

But as for why I like top!Lucifer, here are a few reasons:

A) I really like it when shorties top. So often, in almost all fandoms I've been in, the default for a popular ship is the shorter one bottoming and the taller one topping. As a shortie myself, I just...ugh, I get so tired of it. Especially since the bottom is typically softened, UwU-ified, and turned into this delicate little flower. Bringing personal feelings into this, I've been very short and very thin all my life. I've literally been described as "delicate" before, and as someone who enjoys sports, running around, and is just a loud, rough and tumble person by nature, I absolutely hate it. It's given me a lot of mental and emotional issues, and a lot of the treatment and comments I've gotten has made me feel belittled, vulnerable, and weak. So, while being a bottom doesn't mean you're any of those things, short characters have been treated like that for a majority of the fandoms I've been in, no matter what their personality, stature, behaviors, or attitude was, and seeing it brings out of love of dark and negative feelings that I'd rather not re-live when I'm trying to enjoy myself in fandom. (Which is another reason why I dislike so much bottom!Lucifer because he's so often softened down and turned into this naive, dare I say, helpless little lamb. The moment Alastor overpowers him or easily manipulates him into a deal, I am outta there.)

B) Lucifer has that top energy. Can't explain it. He just does. To be clear, I don't see him exclusively as a top. He's a switch. But I do headcanon Alastor as exclusively a bottom, so in any radioapple relationship I write or draw, Lucifer will top.

and C) the most important reason: I like seeing Alastor get railed.

Alastor bottoms in all the ships I have for him and Lucifer is no exception. Besides, I find a lot of versatility and potential in Lucifer being with/fucking a sinner, especially considering his distaste of them. Makes for a good hate-fucking scenario, or a very emotional and in-depth character deep dive of him coming to terms with his own bias and internalized hatred of them and finding love and companionship in one of the very people he despised. That's some delicious mental turmoil and the perfect opportunity for character development.

(LOL there's a lot of talk of Alastor not bottoming because of his ego, and yet nobody considers that maybe Lucifer wouldn't bottom for Alastor because he's a sinner. He is the embodiment of pride after all. So, combining that with his disdain for sinners, would he really "stoop" so low as to let one of them fuck him? Food for thought).

But seriously though, when it comes down to it, I just like Alastor bottoming and Lucifer topping. Yes, bottom!Lucifer and top!Alastor has been soured for me due to popular fandom depictions of it, but even before those were popular, I simply preferred Alastor bottoming. I enjoy it more, not just for his character, but just...because. I just do.

Thing is, I don't think there has to be a list of reasons for why you prefer a character topping, bottoming, or switching. People are allowed to do whatever they want with these characters. It's fandom. This is a playground. We don't have to have a reason, we're just here to have fun.

If you can't see Lucifer as a top, Anon, that is a-okay 👍👍Thanks for asking for a different perspective though, it's always awesome when a person seeks to understand someone else's point of view. I don't know how well of a different perspective I offered, though. I have a hard time answering questions like these bcuz they just don't make a lot of sense to me. It's hard to say why I like something when I just...do. I just vibe with it.

To boil it all down, my examples/answers are all based on what I like and how I feel. I like bottom!Alastor cuz I enjoy it. I like top!Lucifer because I love seeing Alastor get railed - especially by a big, powerful demon king. Very yummy.

Also, LOL, considering Alastor is exclusively a bottom to me, anyone I do ship him with will automatically be the top, regardless of who they are XD So I guess that's an important factor to consider too 😂

I don't know how well I did with answering this, but I do want you to get the perspective you were looking for, so! My fellow bottom!Alastor truthers who are reading this, drop why you like bottom!Alastor in the comments below for our lovely Anon!

I'm curious about what you guys have to say too.

[princess-charlie-of-hell]

Why does the fandom acts like Charlastor/Radiobelle is the worst ship in existence?

(This post is going to be pro Charlastor and contains anti Radioapple if you have a problem with it please either stop reading or at least stay respectful)

This is something which annoys me for a long time because the hate this ship gets is so over exaggerated in my opinion.

I am not saying that you are not allowed to dislike or hate this ship because i am myself someone who dislikes a ship sometimes for the silliest reason. But every time i see "what is the worst Hazbin Hotel and why is it Charlastor" or anything similar to it, I just can't take it serious anymore

This is why I am making this post to argue against some points which people always make against Radiobelle

"Alastor and Charlie have a Father-Daughter bond"

I already made a post why I dislike this whole trope but i write it here again because some people think this is Canon despite Alastor just acting like her father to annoy Lucifer. Because we only see Alastor acting like this in Dad beats dad and never before or after this again and Vivziepop even said it.

"Shipping Charlie and Alastor is WLW erasure and Charlie is with Vaggie"

This seems to be one of the main reason people are against Radiobelle but i think that something like this shouldn't be a problem because 1. Charlie is canonically Bi and so there shouldn't be a problem shipping her with a man and 2. Just because something is shipped in Fanon doesn't mean that the Canon ship is no longer Canon. Chaggie is Canon and I am happy about it because I love this ship too.

"That ship would be Toxic"

I have bad news to tell people but let's face it almost all Alastor ships are somehow toxic except maybe Radiorose. Alastor is not a good person and he would manipulate probably every person he mainly gets ship it like Lucifer or Vox, so I find it stupid to complain about this with only Charlastor

"The Age gap between the two are too huge, Alastor is too old for her"

This always make me roll my eyes because 1. Both are adults so who cares and 2. Charlie is canonically older than Alastor. For me this is always fandoms confusing naivity with being Childish.

"Alastor is canonically Ace"

Ace people can have romantic relationship too but if you don't feel comfortable with shipping him with others I won't say anything against it, I just dislike it when it gets comments it under fan art of any ship posts

This last part is just my opinion but I can't help thinking that this ship would be much more popular and wouldn't get that much hate if Charlie were a man or Alastor a woman. Image this whole scene

but with a male Charlie or any other male character. The fandom would have gone crazy and say how Alastor tried to seduce Charlie or tag it with "toxic yaoi". I already saw this whole scene redraw with Lucifer instead of Charlie and it was posted as Radioapple. I even think that if Alastor would be a woman she would be called a ace lesbian because Alastor in Canon dislikes men.

(Here starts the main anti Radioapple part so be warned)

Like I said I saw a pair scene redraw with Lucifer instead of Charlie with scenes between Charlie and Alastor and they often got posted under Radioapple and the fans loved it, so I wonder that Maybe people actually see romantic undertones between Charlie and Alastor but they just dislike Radiobelle or maybe just M/F ships so they just take Lucifer and swap him with Charlie so that they can have a M/M version

This post got longer than expected ups.

This was mostly a post for me to vent because I see sometimes people saying Charlastor is as bad as V*angel and it drives me crazy. Radiobelle isn't everyone cups of tea and that is OK but sometimes I see someone write under Charlie/Alastor fanart "I am just going to image it is Radioapple" or that what I hate at most when somebody makes fanchildren of them and shippers of radioapple use them for their ship and it makes my blood boil because for me this so disrespectful to the artist who put time and work in them.

[lacrimosathedark]

The Radioapple Haters™️ are at it again.

This time they're attacking shippers with the newly released Playbill.

There's so many issues with that. Beyond harassing people for ships is dumb.

This is what people are pointing at.

This is on the cast info page. It says Lucifer misses his wife.

So, three things about that.

Firstly, We Been Knew, babe.

His very first appearance, after his daughter says her parents split up, he's in a room covered in pictures of not just said daughter, but her mother too, and he's still wearing a presumed wedding band. If that's not "showing not telling" with a goddamn airhorn, idk how more clear it could get without Lucifer flat out saying he misses Lilith. So like...this is not new info. So there's nothing to really rub in. We knew this.

Secondly, this is in-character Lucifer saying this.

I'm not a professional, but when I was in high school performances, we wrote our own little Playbill bio info things. That seems to carry into professional ones too. If you can read the actual cast, some of the the actors less entrenched in the fandom culture have basically an IMDB of their relevant previous roles, while the ones you see at cons are more personable. Those were written by the actors. So, logically, the character bios are written as if by the characters. This could not be made more obvious.

So, logically, you can read that little above as Lucifer himself actually saying he misses his wife. Which leads me to--

Third, break-ups are messy and painful and Lucifer not moving on, unwilling to remove his ring or call Lilith his ex, doesn't mean they are still together. Hell, they could still even be technically married, doesn't mean they're still romantically entangled.

Look, I know the only seeming one-sided relationships in the show is Vox/Alastor and Adam/Lilith and every other "pair" are together or at least friendly (Chaggie, Huskerdust, Cherrisnake, Staticmoth, Guitarspear) but not every separation has to be a violent resentful split. Lucifer is explicitly Depressed™️ which can be hard for any partner to deal with, especially someone as ambitious as Lilith. It wouldn't be surprising if she, not even cruelly, thought she'd be more successful away from him even if he still loves her.

And all this is on top of the fact that most Radioapple shippers don't expect their ship to happen (some hope it does, some hope it doesn't, I'm personally neutral on the concept), and that a lot of writers and artists explicitly acknowledge and use Lucifer's love for Lilith in Radioapple because people love the drama.

I have several posts listing why one might ship Radioapple so I won't go off about it here, but suffice to say the entanglement between Lilith and Alastor and how the two are similar and different makes interacting with Lucifer interesting from any angle.

This also hurts me personally a bit because a lot of these people are Lucilith shippers and, yall, I'm one of you. I don't want them to get back together for many reasons, but I would love to see endless flashbacks of them obnoxiously in love. Most of my favorite works of fanart aren't even Radioapple, my primary ship, but Lucilith, in large part because of how adorable they are. How indulgent or smitten Lilith can look. How adorably excited or flustered or just happy Lucifer can be.

I love Lucilith. I adore Lucifer. I just also think his interactions with Alastor are funny and intriguing.

We don't need to hate each other. We can try to keep our little sandboxes separate, but we can play nice when we spill into each other, can't we?

I am really just so sick of the silly in-fighting. It costs zero dollars and zero energy to not be a dick. Need to type out a rant to get it out and off your chest? cool. But you can post it privately or delete it instead of going into peoples' ask boxes and and posts to be nasty. Not having the self control and wherewithal to not go out of your way to be a dick to people is honestly pretty pathetic. If you think you're so much better, prove it by being better, or being smug in your space. Making people feel like shit for a nonexistent fictional relationship does literally nothing for anyone and makes YOU look worse.

Dislike the ship all you want. No one cares either way. Just don't waste your limited time in this life making your distaste everyone else's problem.

[pleasantspark]

What do you think of this potential 4chan leak that Lucifer is the one responsible for the hierarchy and that Sloth, Gluttony and Lust are considered good sins? https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/145383112/#145394767

> Lucifer created the terrible hierarchy of Hell as well as the Deadly Sins. He is described as a moral neutral sin.

Well, neutral is far cutting it, remember he caused nearly everything to happen in Hell. He's described as sexy, when the only sexy thing about him is his depression. No one pointed out that Lucifer was at fault for all the things to begin with, but no people are like "B-B-B-B-BUT, we needed a story to kick off Charlie!" I feel like it's stupid, also, I am a depressed person and whenever a character who is depressed does something bad, they always have to empthize on the "UWU Depressed shit" which is shit you'd see on r/gachalifecringe or r/gachaclubcringe (Which I am a moderator on, and let me tell you, the Gacha side of the Hazbin Fandom is fucked up.). I feel like most don't care because they'd much rather ship RadioApple then point out the absolute fuckery that is Lucifer himself.

>The good sins are Asmodeus, Bee, and Belphegor. The bad sins are Satan, Leviathan, and Mammon. Beelzebub actively hates the hierarchy and how it treats her hellhounds, but there isn't anything she can do about it.

Okay, first off all the sins are bad, they cannot just pick and choose. For FUCKS sake, you know who her favorite is, the funny thing is, I like Mammon, he's cute and his design/accent are great (But nothing comes greater then Jeice), so she failed at making villains scary when all they are is extremely comical people who suck at villianing and suck at life.

> Leviathan is female and a fashion queen. Alot of Envy will be focused on fashion.

Paint me green and call me a fucking pickle, more backlash would be fucking impossible. Remind me what the fuck does Fashion have to do with Envy?

Sure, people can be envious of others looks, but that ISN'T the only thing possible to be envious of.

This is Leviathan from my Universe, he's a victim of abuse from his father. (Who by the way died because of the effect he has on people, later on.)

According to Levi's official description on the Wikia:

Leviathan isn't actually Envious, rather the curse he has causes anyone nearby of him close or not to get envious of him as a person which is the main reason why Agatha is acting out.

This would've been better, but complicated storylines and things pulled from TVTropes isn't what Viz likes. Yes, Leviathan is meant to be Stolas from HB but better, and yes, I DO VOICE LEVI.

So what's the issue with Levi liking fashion? Well, it's obvious that she needs another Diva because at this rate Velvette isn't enough, and most of the fuckers in the Pride Ring seems to be fitted for other rings too.

I feel like she's trying to assign something to these character's to make them unique, but they aren't.

Lucifer is literally the Sin of Pride, and the only thing prideful about him is his fruitiness, so add that to the level of "Bible things that Viv added" he's far from prideful, and that's a fact.

Coming from someone whose gay myself.

Mammon, oh sweet sweet Mammon, is just the Greedlr, but a Fat Nickado Avocado Characters, minus the screaming and fits. And aussie. Because "oooo people with accents arre baad"

Beezlebub, is just, well a Bee, because "HAHAH FUNNI BEE-ZLEBUB" she wanted to relieve her golden years of AMVs and Animation Meme-Esque content, also so she can brush hands with Kesha-Senpai. I swear to fuck, she asskisses alot.

And I am BARELY getting started.

> Stella is a decent mom to Octavia. She doesn't have many powers and isn't summoned to Earth like Stolas is.

If she's such a great Mom, you so claim she is, Viv, then why not show and NOT FUCKING TELL. All we see of her, is the way to make the audience feel bad for a [N word, black POC here. Don't wanna say it.] that ain't shit, Doja Cat was right, he ain't shit.

This is ridiculous, this was seen with Jeffy in SML, he was a hated character, Logan tried every trick in the book to get the audience to feel bad for him (I.E. Giving him an emotional manipulative mom, losing his sister, WITNESSING HIS LITTLE SISTER GETTING MOLESTED, etc etc) but the problem with making an auidence feel bad for the character, it gives a in character excuse to let them continue being pricks without any character development.

In conclusion:

More pointless rep that will be thrown out as soon as it appears

More things to hype up, but ultimately fumble the bag

It sucks

[darklinaforever]

Admire the double standard !

Under the Charlastor / Radiobelle posts, you will often find someone who will tell you that "Charlie is in a relationship. How dare you ship her with someone else ?" But when I look at Radioapple (Alastor & Lucifer) I never see comments like "Lucifer is still in love with Lilith because he still wears his wedding ring after all these years. How dare you ship him with someone 'other ?"

People leave the Charlastor / Radiobelle shippers alone.

Plus it's such a bullshit excuse for Charlie to be in a relationship to keep him from shipping her off with someone else. Already because Charlastor / Radiobelle comes under the fanon, but you also know that certain fictional characters start in a relationship with someone but break up and end up with someone else, sometimes or not shipper with the character concerned by the fans ? Like, a character being in a relationship doesn't at all prevent shipping, and a change in relationship in the future depending on what the author wants. This argument "the character is already in a relationship so can't be a shipper with someone else" is really ridiculous.

Same for constantly mentioning that Alastor is aorace to prevent him from being in a relationship with Charlie. Once again I don't see this escuse under the Radioapple posts.

But in addition know that it is a complex spectrum and that aorace people can actually be in couple /romantic relationships.

Besides, I never see hate comments for the ship between Charlie & Emily, which I also love. I wonder why...

Let's be realistic, I think that the hatred of the Charlastor / Radiobelle ship specifically in the fandom is due to the fact that it is a ship between a man and a woman. Which is completely ridiculous. Especially since once again Charlie is bisexual and the fact that Alastor is aorace doesn't technically prevent him from getting into a relationship either. Their canonical sexualities are not restricted by this imaginary relationship.

Once someone even "reminded" me that Alastor was "repulsed" by touch, to justify the fact of not being able to imagine him in a relationship with anyone, especially Charlie. Except that it is forgetting that Alastor if he wishes is capable of invading the personal space of others and or of being tactile. We see it with Mimzy, Nifty and especially Rosie, who can actually allow herself to manipulate Alastor's body like a borderline doll, which is rather funny. Indicating that Alastor with people he likes allows a certain contact. And beyond that, one of the rare people with whom he is tactile is precisely Charlie.

Charlastor is fanon I know. But in reality, nothing prevents us from imagining scenarios where they end up as a couple.

Let people enjoy their fanon scenarios quietly (Charlastor / Radiobelle, Radioapple, Royalhalo, etc). Why feel threatened to this extent by Charlastor / Radiobelle ? It's not like us fans expected this ship to become canon, so relax. Let people like what they like instead of invading some shippers with your comments which doesn't tell us anything we don't already know and will never change the tastes of shippers.

[rat-rambles]

Ok Alastor shippers of all sorts, I'm going to put in my two cents and before I get into I'm a pro shipper all around just don't be mean to each other and tags are there for a reason.

My credentials: I'm an gray ace, aro person who's been around Fandom a very long time. Personally I've been initiated with the “but al is ace aro so you can't ship him” discourse and first off that's not true both because we can date -I Have a long term Partner- and because I've explored a lot of my queer identity through Fandom and fanfics and I think others should get the chance to do the same. I'm sure a lot of people will learn they’re ace aro because of alastor. That being said ik a lot of you writers out there aren't ace aro and are new to the topic so I'm going to go over some of my personal suggestions of how you could make Canon compliant works. (And if you do any or find any please send to me I'd love to see it)

Oblivious Alastor

Canonically this man doesn't know he's an ace in the hole. And I don't believe an egomaniac like him would assume that there's anything “different” about himself. ik when I was a baby ace I thought everyone was just being dramatic basically before realizing I was the exception. I can see this going 2 ways.

Radiostatic (pre show): vox is obviously completely smitten with al and al sees dating a more powerful overlord as an advantage(which vox in the past was the more powerful of the two). And Al starts getting slowly more and more uncomfortable and vox gets pushy in a very manipulative way.

Radioapple: enemies to friends to lovers? After Al and Luci become close friends, Luci starts to catch feelings for Al and Al agrees to date him seeing as he is fond of him and he's a very powerful ally so why wouldn't Al date him? As the relationship progresses they’re both confused by Alastor's behavior. Luci tries to be respectful. You know maybe he's just very against pda. And al doesnt understand why he's not feeling the things he's meant to.

I can see Al reverse heteronormativity- ing his way into assuming he's gay because he's NOT straight.

Malicious intent

Same as the last one except Al knows he doesn't have feelings for them like that and is trying to be toxic and uses them. IE what if Al was a gold digger actually.

Maybe I am in love?

Al actually thinks that he MUST be feeling a romantic connection because this is the closest he's ever been to someone and once again, gets steadily more confused as he realizes what he and his partner are experiencing is different.

All of these can end in nice queer platonic bliss and I think any story where Al and his partner discover he's ace after establishing the relationship is inherently interesting.

Last note some ace vocabulary

Ace and aro are a spectrum. Typically with ace people they will self identify as either sex positive, sex negative, or sex neutral. With Al it's generally head cannoned that he's sex negative but that's not explicitly Cannon and sex positive and neutral aces are valid.

Sex negative: is self explanatory it's what everyone thinks aces are; I don't want sex ever the idea grosses me out ect.

Sex neutral: is when someone doesn't have the desire for sex but isn't repulsed by it either. If they are in a relationship and their partner wants to have sex they’re open to it but don't expect initiation on their part.

Sex positive: people have a hard time understanding this because it's the seperating of the need for sex from the want. Typically if a sex positive ace were to never have sex again they'd die happy but if they have a willing partner they are happy to participate. It builds intimacy. It feels good, it's nice but it's not the same as being allo and having that cardinal lust.

note: please know what type your head cannoning Al as in your works when writing it, although people of course can change which they feel they align with, it's important to know how he's feeling about it.

I'm not as familiar with aro terminology but like with ace it's more about the drive the need the anguish. Al wouldn’t in cannon crave romantic connection.

Like with ace it's not actually cannon what type of aro he is some aro people are completely repulsed by the idea of romantic relationships or they only like it in theory (which playing around with the idea of Al liking a relationship in theory but not in practice could be a lot of fun.)

The gray romantic umbrella are aro people who can have romantic attraction to some degree. They’re still aro you can head cannon Al as it but please do a little research into which one you think your version of Al would identify with there quite a few so I'll spare the list here.

Demi romantic is when someone can develop romantic attraction for very specific people, very rarely. These people won't be on Bumble but might fall for someone after knowing them for a few years (or an indeterminate amount of time, my timeline was a year and a half I shit you not) a lot of you are looking for that.

As for kink. Lots of queer people especially are into kink because it's intimate, it's physical, it requires trust but it's not actually inherently sexual a lot of the time. And we do know that Al likes torturing and being dominant so yeah he'd be kinky that's completely canon compliant.

At the end of the day Al is ace aro in the show and that's what counts. Have fun be creative, explore the depths of your queer little minds and please be nice to each other.

(and if any of you make works related to this please please please send them to me thanks)

[platonically-loving-alastor]

Aroace Alastor

Hoo boy here we go- This one might make some people mad at me, so I'll preface by saying I do not want to start a fight and as long as you respect my business, I'll respect yours. But let's get this over with-

First off, I genuinely don't understand how some people can see the Ace-In-The-Hole quote and still believe that Alastor is only intended to be asexual and not also aromantic. Yes, the term Rosie used for purpose of the pun was 'ace', but can we look at the context of that moment before jumping to conclusions?

Rosie, motioning to Charlie: "Oh, who's this you brought with you? Come now, Alastor, she's much too young for you! Oh, I'm just kidding. I know you're an ace in the hole!"

Her original statement implies nothing sexual, only that he's involved in a relationship with Charlie, and she follows it up with why she knows that couldn't be because he's an 'ace in the hole'. I don't think you have to read too far between the lines to see that.

I would also like to say that when Vivienne has spoken about his orientation before, I recall her saying that she didn't want to confirm him being aromantic so that she wouldn't 'ruin anyone's fun', which I just feel like is an odd thing to say if she wasn't already explicitly picturing him as aroace. If she thought he had romantic attraction, why wouldn't she just say that? What fun would that ruin? I also feel like keeping things like this ambiguous just to appease the shippers is a little weird, but I digress-

And to those of you who I know are saying "But aromantic people can be in relationships too!!" *deep inhale* yeah I know. I'm not gonna pretend you're not right about that, but there are also aroace people who have exactly 0 interest in romance or sex at all. This is the part of the post that really is based on how I interpret certain moments, but to me he is absolutely one of those people. I don't really know where people get any vibes of him being interested in that stuff. I have never once looked at him and thought "Yeah I could see him in a romantic relationship with *insert character here*". Even aside from attraction in general, since that's what we'd be talking about at this point anyway, he just seems like the kind of guy who'd rather work and live independently instead of relying on anyone, whether practically or emotionally (which is also probably part of the reason he never joined the Vees, but that's another topic entirely). Hell, I'm pretty sure he's in heavy denial about even developing any kind of care or friendship with the people at the hotel (ie. the episode 8 scene with him and Niffty).

The only ships I see him involved in with people he doesn't hate (so ignoring RadioApple, RadioHusk, and StaticRadio. But to be real, maybe the fact all his main ships are enemies to lovers coded says something about the whole situation, but that's just me-) are Charlastor - which I will not even try to discuss here, people aren't gonna like this post as it is - and RadioRose. Rosie and him would at least be fair, if it weren't for one thing (which is also personal opinion on my end), and I don't know exactly how to word it. I'm tempted to say she has wingwoman vibes? But she knows he's aro, so that's not the right word, but there's vibes of like, she probably did act as a wingwoman before she realized that about him or something.. There's also something about her joking around like "Oh this is the girl? You have a girlfriend and I'm only now meeting her?" is almost giving motherly behavior. Idk man they're just besties to me, I could see them in a QPR though (not that they'd probably label it that way, considering the word queerplatonic is likely just complete gibberish to Alastor lmao).

So to summarize: It feels incredibly likely, if not practically canon, that Alastor was written with aromanticism in mind, even if Vivienne refuses to explicitly state it. Subtext and not-that-subtle implications can say just as much about a character as word of God, especially when that God has explicitly told us why she won't confirm or deny this information. Do I think any of this will stop people from shipping him romantically with literally any other character? No ofc it won't, and that's okay, that's just what fandoms do. I do think there's something to say for the fact the one aroace (or even at the very least asexual) character gets constantly shipped with everyone else in the cast, but this post is long enough I think. The only point of posting this is that I wanted to get information out there in one post to say "Hey, let's look a little bit past the surface for a second before saying there's no proof of him being aromantic"

Anyway, thanks for reading, I hope you at least took something away from this

[ferosmorningstar]

why you don't like radioapple ship?

Because for me and I get that clear.. FOR ME.. Is not a good ship and it seems so forced and stupid that you take a guy who's clearly a narcissist manipulator who really don't care about anyone but himself gets paired with a depressed as hell person who not only loves and miss his wife and daughter, he would do ANYTHING to recover his past life, and just on the blink of an eye they are now lovers and Lucifer forgets centuries of being with someone that he loved and even fell. Mostly hate when they put Lucifer as a whiny little bitch hungry for sex and attention just because he's depressed... really makes me sick how people romanticise depression as if were something beautiful and romantic, like being short makes him weak. But well most BL fans are like that since that shit of killing stalking crap came out, making toxic relationships something ''good''

Still I won't go and say bullshit to any artist or person who like it, I just ignore it because I'm not in the right to make people like what I like and mostly don't have the right to shame them for what they like. I like staticradio cause even Viv looks to encourage that ship since the beginning and with the interactions of the voice actors, that ship have everything and feels natural. Other thing... Don't came with bullshit like ''Lilith abandon him, she's the real toxic person'' Nope, I don't care and I won't come to fight that, even if she's the villain I won't quit on her.

[twosoulss77]

I don't know who needs to hear this, but you are allowed to have a favourite ship, canon or not, out of a particular show.

Shipping is just a way for artist and what not to explore different dynamics, or even their own. That’s why I believe we should let people enjoy what they like, without forcing our own image of a certain spectrum into them. Especially cause shaming those people, for trying to explore their identity through art, might cause actual harm to them or cause them to not enjoy doing what they like anymore, bc of hateful comments from someone who hides behind a fake identity to hate on a fictional ship, which in itself it’s a very sad and pathetic way to live, but just cause your life is miserable doesn’t mean you need to make others people’s life miserable you know. Go touch Grass when you feel like being a dick!!!

As an AroAce fellow with no desire for a sexual relationship, I applaud and adore all those people making content of my fav husbands, let it be a fics smut or just normal fluff, I love it all SO MUCH Hazbin Hotel ep 5 changed my whole chemistry, and Say what you will about radioapple / appleradio, but I will always be entertained by the idea of Lucifer angrily doing acts of kindness for Alastor because it's what ‘Charlie would want’, and Alastor being a stupid ‘Bambi’ and try to wiggle himself out of it at the beginning, but then realise that he actually doesn’t mind the king of hell company at all. Both slowly growing to actually tolerate and maybe even like being around the other. Exchanging snarky remarks in a more playful way, playing music together, telling dad jokes, hating on the same delusions glorified iPad …like there is so much potential there that it’s crazy how much it pisses people off. It might be cause I am a sucker for Enemies to Friends to Lovers, but by God if that isn’t the best trope.

I know there will be some smart people out there, that are gonna be like “Alastor is ace”, but so are half the people who ship him!!! I hate when people make assumption on us, on who and how we want to love. I might not be interested in participating in sexual stuff myself, but that doesn’t stop me to explore my own ace-spectrum with these two characters, who if they wanted to could and would kiss each other, Cause for one I says so, I have the power to make that happen *insert hysterical laugh* And second It was confirmed that Alastor is a repulsed Ace, but would also be down to date someone if they were strong asf, (Confirmed in a stream, take that with a grain of salt) still makes this ship more possible than others.

Al being Aroace, doesn't mean he can't date or have sex, he's just not all that interested in it, but that could also derive from the fact that he hasn’t found the right person yet, so it doesn’t feel important to him yet. (fun fact aromantic wasn't the part of my struggle accepting that I was aroace it was actually accepting I was ace bc of my hyper sexual tendencies)

Also Alastor being aro just makes radioapple infinitely more funny to me, or any relationship with him for that matter. He is just this 7 feet tall demon with zero interest in romance, but always managing to find himself having beef with someone, possibly a guy, and act like he is either about to kiss or kill him XD

I really needed to get this off my chest and I absolutely mean every thing I said in here. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes, but you'll be surprised to see how much happier you will be when you stop focusing on what other people are doing and instead focus on what you like.

Thanks for listening 😊💜

[notherpuppet]

Is there any particular reason you use ship names with qpr relationships? (Like using a / or radioapple for examples) It makes it a little hard to tell what's meant to be romantic and platonic in fandoms sometimes, no shame for using them obvi and not pushing you to change your tagging or anything. Just wondering

Well the QPR I'm depicting is pretty affectionate (I mean mostly just xo's, not xxx hahaha) so even if it's NOT romantic, it probably may still be perceived as a ship between characters. I'm purposefully displaying a bond that is affectionate and loving, albeit platonic. So I still consider it a ship and that's why I tag it as such.

So with QPRs like radioapple, radiorose, almimzy, radiostatic, etc. etc. (alastor ships pretty much lol) I just figure that if people don't like to see characters in this ship, they're able to just block the tag. There are ships that I don't particularly like, but I just scroll away. It doesn't really bother me, but yknow; we get to cater a lot of our own social media experiences. There's the block and mute options for a reason.

As for ascertaining whether a ship art is QPR or not, I think someone can inquire or just do a little more legwork to figure that out themselves tbh. Some things may not have been written to be QPR, but may fit inside that idea for someone engaging in the artwork/fanfic. Some things may be intentionally written to be QPR and not coincide with a fan's taste or personal ideas. For example, someone may depict a QPR that includes sex. These are valid QPR experiences. On the flip side, someone may not be depicting a QPR and they include nothing explicit or affectionate, but it still fits into someone else's idea of what a QPR can look like. It's not black and white. There is nuance.

We should individually do the work of assessing if a fanart is something that we appreciate or not. AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO TELL AN ARTIST IF YOU DON'T LIKE HOW THEY DO SOMETHING BTW. Just saying. Pretty RUDE ACTUALLY so yknow I would advocate for NOT doing that. I also don't think we need to put it on the artists to define exactly what they're depicting, since it can be a pretty difficult relationship to pin down. Affection and friendship can look very different for lots of people. And I don't think it's necessary for an artist or writer to spell out their intentions for us. Art is a means to express oneself and to have fun. If we choose to engage in an artwork, then we can also interpret it and come to conclusions of our own.

TLDR; I'm gonna go ahead and tag QPRs as their fandom ship names and I think it's up to us as users to cater social media to our tastes individually.

[allastoredeer]

I'm with you there on preferring bottom!Alastor and getting squicked out by top!Alastor. The squick is worse for me when searching radioapple than radiostatic stuff, and I think it has more to do with the egregious amount of uke-fication of Lucifer that I've seen. Vox and Al get it sometimes too, let's be real that's gonna happen in any mlm ship. But I feel like it happens SO often to Lucifer, mostly cause he's small and cute, that people completely forget he's the oldest and most powerful entity in hell.

He would NOT be genuinely scared or intimidated by Al or any other sinner for that matter and Al would NOT be able to physically overpower or threaten Luci. It just feels so wildly out of character for me that any of the appeal of the ship/characters is gone at that point.

Like, for real, no shade to anyone that likes that, go on and get your food. But my extreme dislike of it has me now avoiding bottom!Lucifer radioapple like the plague just so I don't risk being subjected to it.

I think...I think you just described why I feel so squicked out by bottom!Lucifer and top!Alastor 😦 Like, I couldn't figure out what exactly about it was throwing me off, but you just said it perfectly!!

That's literally it! It's the uke-fication of Lucifer. That's it. Lucifer would never feel threatened by Alastor. He would never be overpowered by Alastor. So when I see depictions of Alastor successfully intimidating Lucifer, or overpowering him at all, it just throws me out of the story.

Lucifer's been alive longer than Hell. Alastor's measely 100+ years of being alive is nothing compared to his millennia+ lifespan. And yeah, Lucifer is the strongest person in Hell, he could beat Alastor in any fight, no question. He has no reason to be scared or threatened by him.

And look, there are ways to get Lucifer to a point of being afraid. There are always a way to make characters act in a way you wouldn't typically see. In fact, Lucifer, the biggest, baddest person in Hell, being threatened by something would be a huge thing for his character and for the story. That could totally work!

But when it comes from Alastor just going into his demon form, or looming over Lucifer, I just 🥲 it takes me out of the story. I can't. Alastor may be a big bad Overlord, and he's dangerous for sure, but like...power-wise he is just not on Lucifer's level and Lucifer knows that--Alastor knows that--and this is what makes their dynamic so, SO interesting, especially if they're in a relationship or slowly building into a relationship. That's what makes it so spicy and flavorful. The push and pull. The insecurity and emotion. The complex dynamic between them.

I think you're right about it making bottom!Lucifer and top!Alastor lose its appeal. I went back through my Twitter bookmarks yesterday and found a few top!Alastor's & bottom!Lucifer's that I've saved, but I've come to dislike that generalized characterization of it so much that I avoid it it like the plague too.

And like you said, there's no hate to those who enjoy it. This is fandom and people are allowed to write, draw, and do what they want. It's all fiction and it's not hurting anyone.

I just don't like the top!Alastor & bottom!Lucifer dynamic in most fan-arts, and I don't click onto fics with it cause I just don't want to subject myself to an unenjoyable time 😂 I'm here to have fun too, afterall.

[speakofthedebbie]

Hey, I saw your rant on RadioApple and was wondering if I can chime in as an aroace? You mentioned at the end that you're allo so I thought maybe throwing in my perspective might be a bit helpful. Obviously I don't speak for every ace out there, so you can take this with a grain of salt or just delete it outright if you want.

So in real life, I have less than zero interest in entering into a romantic or sexual relationship. I have a couple of times before tried to 'make' myself have a crush, but I've never genuinely felt that way about a person, and the thought of being physically intimate with someone grosses me out just a bit. But when it comes to fandom and fictional characters, I absolutely love shipping culture. In fact, shipping is one of the main ways I engage in fandom. The thing is, I have to genuinely give a shit about the characters to want to ship them with anyone. And Alastor is my absolute favorite characters in Hazbin Hotel, in no small part because he is ace! I enjoy seeing him in various scenarios and playing with his dynamic with different characters. Including via shipping. And sure, sometimes I just like to read plotless smut fics with him in it. The thing is, I just don't get the same enjoyment of that kind of thing with characters I am less invested in. So when someone says 'why can't you ship literally any other character' that just feels condescending and stupid to me.

Now, I know that there are plenty of other ace people who feel differently and I fully agree with the people who say we need to see more representation of sex-repulsed aces or those who feel happy and fulfilled without a romantic relationship in media. Personally, I don't want RadioApple to become canon! Fandom is more than enough for me! And writing smutty fanfiction of Alastor and Lucifer (or whoever else) does not change anything about Alastor or his sexuality in canon. People writing these fics and drawing this art are not stealing representation, we're just having fun.

Also Debbie, I want to tell you that you hit the nail on the head with this statement: "Asexuality is a spectrum people, by saying this youre implying there is a wrong way to (aro)ace." Thank you. One of the biggest pet peeves of mine when it comes to the anti-Alastor shipping crowd is people telling the shipping-positive aces 'you don't speak for the entire ace community' with zero self-awareness. Frankly, I'm happier with an allo who is willing to listen to the perspectives of ace people than an aro/ace who sees their own perspective as the only correct one.

doing gods work with this one soldier 🙏🏾

ill be honest the "wrong way to (aro)ace" line was inspired by something i saw... somewheree (don member :'c) and ive carried it with me every since

[hazbinstohell]

I'm going to be honest, I had no idea that charlastor had so many haters. I joined the fandom in 2020 from watching the pilot and started shipping them based on their dynamic and chemistry. Admittedly, I wasn't keeping up with discourse because I tend to stay on my side of the fandom. Finding out that ppl have this much vitriol for it is crazy yet not shocking. Unfortunately, whenever it comes to a popular male character being shipped with a woman and that ship has some popularity going for it that's when the pitchforks always come out. I could write a dissertation about how internal misogyny has ruined fandoms and shipping but I won't. I just don't like hypocrites. When it comes to charlastor, suddenly there's a laundry list of reasons why ppl shouldn't ship it but that energy is never kept when it comes to slash ships. I know for a fact they're not spouting that BS when it comes to shipping Radioapple, Radiodusk and any other gay ship involving Alastor. I have more respect for a hater who is honest about why they don't really like Charlastor instead of just making up shit. It's because she's a woman and we know how MF ships get treated often in fandoms. God forbid you don't immediately ship the popular male character with another male character then you're all kinds of phobics, problematic, close minded etc etc. Nah, a lot of these ppl suffer from internal misogyny and like to fetishize gay relationships and don't want to admit it. Charlastor fans mind their business and stay on their side of the fandom. How unfortunate these miserable POS can't do the same. Shipping wars have always been insane to me but shipping wars over animated characters bring out a different level of mental illness in a lot of ppl.

Yes, I never really understood ship wars. There is a lot of angst regarding a lot of MF ships. I’m happy where I am in this ship, and I have talked to some awesome people who just want to have fun shipping these characters! So, let people ship however they want!

[pleasantspark]

Come to think of it, RadioApple is technically all fucked up. You're shipping an Ace man with a man who is separated from his wife. I feel no one realizes that Lucifer is seperated from his wife, meaning he's legally still with her. Leave it to the fandom to ONE AGAIN STOLITZ something.

Another thing is, it's completely ooc of Alastor to enter a relationship of any kind, and I feel like he would atleast PRETEND to be with Lucifer just to get more power.

No one thought that Al would be interesting to fake being with the Leader of Hell because the power he would get. That's not a ship, and it still remains in Alastor's spirit.

This ship is the reason why people don't care about the issues surrounding the other ships that are canon.

And this ship ain't even canon!